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Transcript

Fourth World Book Club #9 · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the…
• 0:04
  Tad Eggleston: Fourth World Book Club on 22 panels. I'm joined by Sean Hargil-Road and Mark Pratt, Chicago-area actors, and… and in Mark's case, a playwright. Sean, have you written a play? I don't want to, like, make you not…
• 0:22
  Tad Eggleston: Not a playwright.
• 0:22
  13129194714: I've written two plays.
• 0:24
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay. Chicago area actors and playwrights, Mark Pratt and Sean Hawkman.
• 0:30
  Mark Pracht: I, I was in one of those.
• 0:33
  13129194714: Right.
• 0:35
  Tad Eggleston: Mark's sitting there going, right might be a overstatement.
• 0:40
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 0:41
  Tad Eggleston: I was in one of those.
• 0:43
  Mark Pracht: None,
• 0:46
  Tad Eggleston: No, but I played the famously worst actor in.
• 0:50
  Mark Pracht: Film history, so…
• 0:53
  Tad Eggleston: Who's the worst actor in film history? I know who the worst director is.
• 0:57
  Mark Pracht: Same project, I think, probably.
• 1:00
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 1:02
  13129194714: Excellent heat.
• 1:03
  13129194714: Hey, he played Jen Hackman's brother in Prime Cut.
• 1:09
  Mark Pracht: It's true, he did.
• 1:10
  13129194714: Gregory Walcott.
• 1:12
  Mark Pracht: Yep, yep.
• 1:14
  Mark Pracht: He's… he's great at eating hot dogs.
• 1:18
  Mark Pracht: Wow, we are way off the reservation, and anyone.
• 1:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm listening to this is like, what the hell are they talking about?
• 1:24
  Mark Pracht: about.
• 1:24
  Tad Eggleston: Well, we haven't even announced what we're talking about, so I mean…
• 1:30
  Tad Eggleston: This could be the fourth… fourth world.
• 1:33
  Mark Pracht: We're talking about the third and second-to-last Jack Kirby-created, Jimmy Olsen, Superman's pal, which means…
• 1:43
  Tad Eggleston: 146 and 147.
• 1:47
  Mark Pracht: Stuff doesn't really have to make much sense.
• 1:50
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 1:56
  13129194714: When last we left Jimmy, he had been turned into Marvel's The Mad Thinker.
• 2:03
  Mark Pracht: Yes, he was.
• 2:05
  13129194714: E.
• 2:07
  Mark Pracht: the, caveman Jimmy.
• 2:12
  Mark Pracht: And now… Everything's fine!
• 2:16
  Mark Pracht: Looks like he might have a fever, he's got a thermometer in his mouth.
• 2:21
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 2:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Mark Pracht: That's some serious.
• 2:25
  13129194714: That's 147, right? That's 147. 146.
• 2:32
  Tad Eggleston: Was he became the… Right.
• 2:35
  13129194714: Yes.
• 2:36
  Tad Eggleston: And then the one mad scientist pissed off the other mad scientist by saying that they… they… they looked similar.
• 2:48
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 2:52
  Mark Pracht: And then we have, angry Charlie comes out of nowhere.
• 2:58
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:02
  Tad Eggleston: But Superman does go to… to… to… to… Superman. Meet Allfather.
• 3:07
  13129194714: Superstown.
• 3:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Mark Pracht: goes to SuperTech.
• 3:10
  13129194714: Oh, yeah!
• 3:10
  Mark Pracht: That's… Really insecure about himself.
• 3:14
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 3:15
  Tad Eggleston: Average.
• 3:16
  Tad Eggleston: He feels like he's average man.
• 3:19
  Mark Pracht: That's right.
• 3:22
  Mark Pracht: I do love, I do love when he…
• 3:23
  13129194714: levitate Terry Dean, for some reason.
• 3:33
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, we do have a classic, Marvel Comics, two characters meet, and through full, full-on misunderstanding, have a big fight that goes on for, like, 5 pages.
• 3:54
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. I mean, like, look.
• 3:56
  Tad Eggleston: And then are fine with no grudges.
• 3:58
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, that's right. Hey, yeah, I know you punched me in the face, it's okay.
• 4:02
  Tad Eggleston: Sent me through a wall, but it is… standing! How we're cool!
• 4:09
  Mark Pracht: Alright, the…
• 4:11
  13129194714: There's some cool art in here.
• 4:13
  13129194714: But these issues, they didn't do a whole lot for me.
• 4:19
  Mark Pracht: I mean, they… they're just not… like, it's clear…
• 4:25
  Mark Pracht: To me, it's clear that Jack knows he's almost done.
• 4:30
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 4:31
  Mark Pracht: And… so, he's just sort of throwing out crap. I mean, and… you know, it kind of… he brings it back a little bit to the new gods and the Fourth World.
• 4:41
  Mark Pracht: to, you know, tie it back in.
• 4:50
  Mark Pracht: But… I don't know.
• 4:55
  13129194714: It feels… and I don't know if it was in 145 or 146, I can't…
• 5:01
  13129194714: find it right now. But I think Scrapper makes a comment that, like, this is like something out of a gold… the golden age of comics.
• 5:09
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 5:10
  13129194714: And…
• 5:11
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  13129194714: It… it really does feel like Golden Age comics.
• 5:16
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 5:17
  13129194714: Where, you know, there's… Not a lot of characterization.
• 5:24
  13129194714: Just, this happens, this happens, this happens.
• 5:27
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Mark Pracht: Well, and it's also, like, I think… I think it's bizarre, like, when they're… when they're trying to escape.
• 5:36
  Mark Pracht: When the Scrapper and the Scrapper Double are trying to escape.
• 5:39
  Mark Pracht: And they go through that, like, menagerie.
• 5:44
  Mark Pracht: And we see that… we see all these alien creatures…
• 5:48
  Mark Pracht: And you're like, oh, those are all really cool, and then the thing that actually gets loose is a saber-toothed tiger.
• 5:55
  Mark Pracht: And I'm like, Oh, okay.
• 6:00
  Mark Pracht: What about that thing that looked like, you know.
• 6:06
  Mark Pracht: the blob with teeth, or whatever, you know, and like…
• 6:10
  13129194714: Isn't there.
• 6:11
  Mark Pracht: Is it the cooler you could have trotted out here?
• 6:14
  Mark Pracht: And I, I don't… like… I don't know.
• 6:19
  Mark Pracht: I… Yeah.
• 6:21
  13129194714: Well, they do meet kind of a Doctor Doom-like character.
• 6:28
  Mark Pracht: 100%, yeah.
• 6:32
  13129194714: What was his name?
• 6:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's…
• 6:36
  13129194714: his…
• 6:36
  Mark Pracht: Looked a lot like.
• 6:39
  13129194714: Hi, Gondola.
• 6:40
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 6:43
  Mark Pracht: The kind of Basil Rathbone-looking dude.
• 6:46
  13129194714: Oh, Professor Victor Volcanum.
• 6:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Mark Pracht: And his… his epic plan to destroy the world with a volcano, or something like that. I mean, yeah, it just is like…
• 7:04
  Mark Pracht: I… this… this all feels really half-baked to me, and I… I… I… that's… that's all I… I mean, that's… and I, like, I don't think he ever really was…
• 7:13
  Mark Pracht: Like, I think that this book was a means to an end for him.
• 7:18
  Mark Pracht: And, I mean, like, I do… there is stuff I like. I mean, I like that conversation between Highfather and Superman.
• 7:27
  13129194714: Definitely, that's the highlight, I think.
• 7:30
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think that… One thing that I did, really note is now that Mike Royer
• 7:41
  Mark Pracht: Is on the art, or is on the inking.
• 7:44
  Mark Pracht: We are… I think we are getting full-on Superman… Kirby Superman faces, instead of…
• 7:55
  Mark Pracht: Kurt Swan stuff pasted over it.
• 7:57
  13129194714: So that's kinda cool.
• 8:00
  Mark Pracht: Like, 147, bottom of page 10, that when, Superman gets punched backwards.
• 8:09
  Mark Pracht: I mean, that's like a full-on Kirby Scream phase.
• 8:17
  Mark Pracht: So I like that.
• 8:22
  Mark Pracht: Or on, page 15, same issue, lower right.
• 8:32
  Mark Pracht: it… Or, I'm sorry, lower left.
• 8:36
  Mark Pracht: It's sort of… it's… I think it's an example of what maybe Carmine and… DC Corporate,
• 8:47
  Mark Pracht: Meant when they said it's a bit off model.
• 8:51
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 8:53
  13129194714: Right.
• 8:54
  Mark Pracht: It's totally acceptable from what we see, you know? Like, the modern version of comics where everything looks different, you know?
• 9:01
  Mark Pracht: But for… Right.
• 9:04
  Mark Pracht: 72 or 71, or whatever this is, that… I think that's… that's… Kind of strange-looking, you know?
• 9:15
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 9:16
  Mark Pracht: But… I don't know, I don't have much to say about the Jimmy Olson books. You know, whatever.
• 9:27
  Mark Pracht: It felt like a lot of random stuff.
• 9:29
  Mark Pracht: like I said, I think Jack knew he was almost done, and I think he was just cleaning out the…
• 9:39
  Mark Pracht: Although we do… we do get these… we do also get these really cool Neil Adams covers interpreting the Kirby concepts.
• 9:47
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 9:50
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 9:51
  Mark Pracht: Which are, you know, Adams is so much more…
• 10:02
  Mark Pracht: illustrator-y, you know?
• 10:07
  Mark Pracht: commercial art kind of stuff.
• 10:12
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. I mean… It's a Kirby book. There's moments of true transcendence, art-wise.
• 10:21
  Mark Pracht: It's just not…
• 10:27
  Mark Pracht: Shouldn't do much for me.
• 10:34
  13129194714: Should we move on to forever people?
• 10:37
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 10:42
  Mark Pracht: Which… I like this issue of Forever People.
• 10:46
  Mark Pracht: It felt a little janky, but…
• 10:49
  Mark Pracht: at least I felt like there was a consistent concept?
• 10:55
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 10:59
  13129194714: Right. Well, the fact…
• 11:06
  Mark Pracht: Yeah?
• 11:09
  13129194714: Oh, no, no, no, I was… Punctuating your point there.
• 11:15
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, no, I think, I loved, I love this,
• 11:20
  Mark Pracht: I love the bizarre culty thing, and finding out that DeSaud was behind all of it, and
• 11:29
  Mark Pracht: You know, and
• 11:32
  Mark Pracht: Billion Dollar Baits and all that stuff. I mean, like, it was all just really… it was really well done. I love… I love the design of Billion Dollar Baits. I think that that is fantastic.
• 11:45
  13129194714: I will go to bat, and I will say, with 99… And 44, 100% surety.
• 11:53
  13129194714: But he was not originally Mr. Bates.
• 11:56
  13129194714: But He was masturbated.
• 12:01
  13129194714: Because that's how he's first introduced. I shall inform Mr. Bates Like, no.
• 12:08
  13129194714: He was gonna say masturbates, and think.
• 12:13
  13129194714: Our man had a problem.
• 12:18
  Mark Pracht: See, I told you that Jack had some weird sexual things.
• 12:25
  13129194714: But, I like the fact that the Bates…
• 12:29
  13129194714: You know, who plays again into the theme
• 12:33
  13129194714: You know, he's right back with… Funky Flash Man…
• 12:39
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 12:40
  13129194714: He's that other character. You know, these, these salesmen, these… Hitchman,
• 12:50
  13129194714: Wheeler dealers, as Bates calls it,
• 12:55
  13129194714: And it's revealed, but he actually has the anti-life solution, right?
• 13:00
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 13:02
  13129194714: Like, Bates has it.
• 13:04
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 13:04
  13129194714: He… he can bend people to his wheel.
• 13:08
  Mark Pracht: will…
• 13:09
  13129194714: with his, Banter.
• 13:14
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 13:16
  13129194714: But I thought.
• 13:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I…
• 13:18
  13129194714: really interesting.
• 13:19
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, it… I still think…
• 13:26
  Mark Pracht: My feeling has always been that the anti-life equation is awful.
• 13:31
  Mark Pracht: confusing, right?
• 13:34
  Mark Pracht: Cuz… And… but… But there does seem to be this consistency of… of control.
• 13:47
  Mark Pracht: But it seems like the control…
• 13:49
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, and the… but the nature of that control always kind of shifts a little.
• 13:55
  Mark Pracht: And,
• 14:03
  Mark Pracht: But…
• 14:04
  Mark Pracht: I, like, I can… I think I can legitimately say this has been… I think this is my favorite issue of forever, people.
• 14:11
  Mark Pracht: So far.
• 14:13
  Mark Pracht: I, I…
• 14:18
  Mark Pracht: I just dig it. I dig those cult members that… those masks they wear, that's super creepy and weird.
• 14:31
  Mark Pracht: What was that, Sean?
• 14:33
  13129194714: I said, yeah.
• 14:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:34
  13129194714: I, I thought that was… The design… like, the designs are good.
• 14:40
  13129194714: I kept waiting.
• 14:41
  13129194714: you know, they kind of remind me of XX.
• 14:48
  13129194714: But, yeah, he's got the… that helmet.
• 14:53
  13129194714: Yeah, I thought… I really enjoyed this one, too.
• 14:57
  13129194714: You know, when it started off, I was like, is this…
• 15:01
  13129194714: It's gonna be an army tail.
• 15:03
  13129194714: You know, with the… The guy, you know, trying to break in.
• 15:10
  13129194714: It really isn't.
• 15:14
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like, even the… like, but, like, I don't know, I can just… I can go on, like, I love that these… these masks, or these helmets.
• 15:25
  Mark Pracht: that the eyes… seem hollow.
• 15:31
  Mark Pracht: Like, it almost seems like you can see through their heads.
• 15:34
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 15:35
  13129194714: Oh, yeah.
• 15:37
  Mark Pracht: I love that.
• 15:41
  Mark Pracht: there's a… like, I think it… visually, it's sort of a metaphor for the emptiness of
• 15:47
  Mark Pracht: What they're selling, you know?
• 15:49
  Mark Pracht: And, But yeah, I do think… I think that,
• 15:57
  Mark Pracht: Mr. Bates, or Master Bates, or whatever we want to call him, is…
• 16:03
  13129194714: Mr… we should, we should honor the, as printed.
• 16:07
  Mark Pracht: You know, at a point… there is a point where you kind of wonder if,
• 16:17
  Mark Pracht: I almost wish… And it may be a blowback because of Funky Flashman.
• 16:26
  Mark Pracht: If that, like, this could have been funky.
• 16:31
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 16:34
  Mark Pracht: A little more sense.
• 16:35
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Mark Pracht: This stuff is feeding into itself, you know?
• 16:40
  Mark Pracht: Although…
• 16:42
  Mark Pracht: I say that…
• 16:43
  13129194714: Well, I also…
• 16:45
  Mark Pracht: I don't think that… I don't think Jack would ever do that with Funky, because I think he wants Funky to be…
• 16:51
  Mark Pracht: Useless.
• 16:53
  Mark Pracht: You know? Right.
• 16:55
  Mark Pracht: And Bates is definitely not useless. He has this power. He is able to control people.
• 17:02
  Mark Pracht: Not just… Blather them into submission.
• 17:07
  13129194714: Right. I… as a pop of 14,
• 17:11
  13129194714: When he's, you know, testing out his powers, And…
• 17:16
  13129194714: In the second panel, he's talking to the publisher.
• 17:23
  13129194714: I was just wondering, is that Carmine?
• 17:26
  13129194714: Is he fantasizing about… having Carmine put a gun to his ass?
• 17:34
  Mark Pracht: God, I don't know.
• 17:37
  Mark Pracht: Or maybe, maybe Goodman?
• 17:41
  13129194714: Anyway.
• 17:43
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, Jack had some, jack had issues.
• 17:49
  Mark Pracht: With a lot of people.
• 17:52
  13129194714: for purpose.
• 17:58
  13129194714: But, yeah, I just thought that was a pretty dark moment, and knowing his issue… his issues with publishers.
• 18:05
  13129194714: I felt, it was… it felt doubly… You know, poignant there.
• 18:13
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, but I… and I also agree with you.
• 18:18
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, Ted?
• 18:18
  Tad Eggleston: Kirby never did any Batman, did he?
• 18:21
  Mark Pracht: New.
• 18:22
  Tad Eggleston: Because I'm just looking at this guy in the green suit that's only there, like.
• 18:25
  Tad Eggleston: Couple of times, and he'd be a perfect Jim Gordon.
• 18:30
  13129194714: If you weren't.
• 18:32
  Tad Eggleston: He doesn't even have a speaking line!
• 18:39
  Tad Eggleston: But he's in two panels, and he'd be a perfect Jim Gordon.
• 18:41
  13129194714: Who cape crusader.
• 18:45
  Mark Pracht: Somebody… somebody was doing…
• 18:48
  Mark Pracht: I can't remember who it was. May… I'm… oh, no, I think it's Alex Ross is doing… a series…
• 18:57
  Mark Pracht: that…
• 18:58
  Mark Pracht: I think it's Alex Ross. I may be misspeaking, I may be misremembering, but I think it was Alex Ross, who was doing some sort of project that was, like, imagining how Kirby would have drawn
• 19:10
  Mark Pracht: the DC characters that he didn't draw.
• 19:15
  13129194714: Right. I recall this.
• 19:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, and… But at the same time, I think…
• 19:21
  Mark Pracht: You know, Kirby did that Superpower series in the 80s, I think he drew just about everybody.
• 19:28
  Mark Pracht: Everybody you want him to draw. I think he did draw Batman.
• 19:32
  Mark Pracht: But not, like, Jim Gordon and all those characters, but I mean, like, it was…
• 19:36
  13129194714: It was the toy line tie-in, so…
• 19:40
  Mark Pracht: But, to what Sean was saying, that moment, I did pause.
• 19:48
  Mark Pracht: When he had that guy put a gun to his own head.
• 19:51
  Mark Pracht: I… I think what Sean said…
• 19:56
  Mark Pracht: 100% true. That is a dark-ass moment, where you're just like, really, Jack? Really?
• 20:03
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 20:07
  Mark Pracht: It's very pre-code, baby. Pre-code.
• 20:14
  13129194714: Well, speaking of that, I mean, Bates' end is,
• 20:19
  13129194714: It's kind of shockingly violent for…
• 20:22
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 20:23
  13129194714: for this book.
• 20:26
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 20:28
  13129194714: You know, I'm not used to seeing people just get shot up.
• 20:31
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 20:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 20:37
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and the bullets went a very specific…
• 20:42
  Tad Eggleston: Distance, because the guy behind him was okay.
• 20:50
  Mark Pracht: Masturbates is pretty dense.
• 20:52
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and the guy behind him is one of the… one of the forever people, so maybe he's got special powers.
• 21:02
  13129194714: Right.
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, he is bigger than Darkseid.
• 21:08
  Mark Pracht: Well, Big Bear, we've seen him be shot at and everything else, and he just sort of, you know.
• 21:17
  Mark Pracht: You know, in a matter of… in a real sense, that actually does make you go, like, did you really have to grab that guy and put him between you and the bullets? We've seen bullets bounce off of you.
• 21:30
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 21:32
  Mark Pracht: There, you know, there's some… there's some real vindictiveness in this book. I… I do… I honestly, I was just thinking about that with the… with the… the Russian roulette bit.
• 21:48
  Mark Pracht: Huh, you'd kill yourself quick as a whistle if there were bullets in that gun, and I wonder if that wasn't an editorial change, that you have to say there were no bullets in the gun.
• 21:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 21:59
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 22:01
  13129194714: Dammit.
• 22:06
  13129194714: I do love the, again, we talked earlier about the Furby reaction faces, the face on the guy who shot.
• 22:15
  13129194714: 8.
• 22:17
  13129194714: That's a classic.
• 22:19
  13129194714: Burby reaction.
• 22:22
  13129194714: Dot.
• 22:23
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 22:24
  Mark Pracht: Oh, like… as, as…
• 22:28
  13129194714: In fact, this whole page, 22,
• 22:31
  13129194714: looks like it could come straight out of How to Draw Comics the Marvel way.
• 22:38
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:40
  Mark Pracht: 100%.
• 22:40
  13129194714: all the poses. Yeah.
• 22:43
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 22:46
  Tad Eggleston: John had just sent up a copy of the book.
• 22:52
  Mark Pracht: Maybe that's why he was so angry about the publisher.
• 22:57
  Mark Pracht: You know, like, I've been kind of down on this book.
• 23:01
  Mark Pracht: And I still don't think that he ever really knew what he wanted to do with it.
• 23:06
  Mark Pracht: You know, compared to the other two. I think… I think the… I think the… the thrust of New Gods is very clear, and I think the thrust of Miracle… Mr. Miracle is very clear, too. I feel like Forever… Forever People just meanders around.
• 23:21
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, this whole con… you know, like, I've said it before, where the… where the hell is the Infinity Man? Like, that was the whole…
• 23:30
  Mark Pracht: That was the whole hook of the book, you know?
• 23:34
  Mark Pracht: And we haven't seen him in… What?
• 23:38
  Mark Pracht: what's this issue 8, I think?
• 23:41
  Mark Pracht: It's been at least 6 issues since we've seen the Infinity Man, I think.
• 23:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Mark Pracht: I think… But, that said, I do think that he was…
• 23:58
  Mark Pracht: putting more effort into this book than he was in Jimmy Olsen.
• 24:03
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 24:05
  Tad Eggleston: Can we look at page 24, though? Cause, like, this… I'm used to Darkseid from… from…
• 24:17
  Tad Eggleston: the Great Darkness Saga, or…
• 24:19
  Mark Pracht: We're talking about the nose tweak, aren't you?
• 24:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not even talking about the nose tweak, it's…
• 24:23
  13129194714: The two people.
• 24:24
  Tad Eggleston: The panels before it bother me even more. He looks like just this…
• 24:28
  Tad Eggleston: Little, insecure, power-hungry man shouting at people bigger and cooler than him.
• 24:38
  13129194714: And then you have a no-street. I think you just said it.
• 24:44
  Mark Pracht: Well, I think…
• 24:47
  13129194714: That may be Jack's final… statement.
• 24:51
  Tad Eggleston: Ehh…
• 24:53
  Mark Pracht: I mean, honestly, I think that…
• 24:57
  Mark Pracht: I've always felt like I… I've always felt that the dark side in Forever People was a little different, right?
• 25:07
  Mark Pracht: And I think it's because…
• 25:11
  Mark Pracht: I'm gonna get deep here. I think it's because, you know, Forever People was Jack's way of talking to the kids, right?
• 25:19
  Mark Pracht: And I think that…
• 25:25
  Mark Pracht: I think that he wanted to show them
• 25:28
  Mark Pracht: That these people who are in charge you know.
• 25:36
  Mark Pracht: are…
• 25:37
  13129194714: Really good point.
• 25:39
  Mark Pracht: Are not as invulnerable As you think they are.
• 25:45
  Mark Pracht: And that… Because, ostensibly, in Mr. Miracle and in New Gods, you have him dealing with
• 25:55
  Mark Pracht: People that he implicitly sees as equals.
• 25:59
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 26:00
  Mark Pracht: And I do think, I do think… let, like…
• 26:06
  Mark Pracht: he… Darkseid sees Highfather as an equal.
• 26:12
  Mark Pracht: That doesn't mean he doesn't want to wipe him out, but I think he sees them as a worthy adversary, right? Right. Certainly, he thinks so of Orion, and we know why.
• 26:21
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 26:22
  Mark Pracht: And certainly scot-free, as someone who escaped Apocalypse, has earned his respect.
• 26:31
  Mark Pracht: I don't necessarily think that he feels Respect…
• 26:37
  Mark Pracht: For the forever people, but he wants their respect.
• 26:41
  Mark Pracht: And when he can't get it, he doesn't quite know what to do, you know?
• 26:45
  Mark Pracht: And… Gotcha.
• 26:46
  Mark Pracht: I think that… But I also think that he feels…
• 26:54
  Mark Pracht: He feels that he can influence them, and that he can win them over to his side. I mean, that's what that whole speech is about.
• 27:02
  Mark Pracht: You know? It's like, I'm… I'm EPA.
• 27:06
  Tad Eggleston: I don't even think it's about winning them over, I think it's about bullying them over.
• 27:10
  Mark Pracht: Well, but…
• 27:12
  Tad Eggleston: But that's… that's so often how…
• 27:15
  Mark Pracht: And… and the… and the nose tweak is like, oh, you kids.
• 27:20
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 27:21
  Mark Pracht: You don't understand what you're dealing with, you know?
• 27:24
  Mark Pracht: And…
• 27:26
  Tad Eggleston: See, this is why I wanted to bring it up. This deeply uncomfortable thing actually might be the most brilliant part of the book.
• 27:32
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, like, I just think… and I think that…
• 27:35
  Mark Pracht: What makes Dark Soul, I mean…
• 27:39
  13129194714: Go ahead.
• 27:40
  Mark Pracht: No, no, you… I talk too much.
• 27:42
  13129194714: No, you said what makes Darkseid?
• 27:46
  Mark Pracht: I think what makes Darkseid interesting is that there are these levels to who he is.
• 27:50
  Mark Pracht: That it's… it's kind… like…
• 27:54
  Mark Pracht: I think Doctor Doom is a better character, period, full stop. But they… it's some of the same ideas, right?
• 28:02
  Mark Pracht: That he is a tyrant, But he also… Has no need for…
• 28:13
  Mark Pracht: He's not gonna be cruel if he doesn't have to.
• 28:16
  Mark Pracht: He's not going to, you know, because we've talked about his relationship with Desaad, and how DeSaad always wants to be cruel.
• 28:25
  Mark Pracht: And that Darkseid is like, I have no need to do that, you know? And that there is a…
• 28:36
  Mark Pracht: there is a nobility to Darkseid that…
• 28:42
  Mark Pracht: Even if you stand against it, you can still respect it, right?
• 28:46
  Mark Pracht: The other thing that's happened here, and this just came to me as I was blathering.
• 28:52
  Mark Pracht: This is possibly the closest the dark side has ever gotten to getting the anti-life equation.
• 28:58
  Mark Pracht: And he just lost it.
• 29:03
  13129194714: Right.
• 29:06
  13129194714: Well, I was gonna point out, But he's also killing time.
• 29:12
  13129194714: Right?
• 29:12
  Mark Pracht: Hmm.
• 29:13
  13129194714: So the whole speech and the tweaking the nose is to distract them.
• 29:21
  13129194714: So that time runs out before they realize.
• 29:25
  13129194714: That they can get in with the Megaton blast.
• 29:28
  Mark Pracht: True enough, yes.
• 29:32
  13129194714: I feel like, and I've never really thought of this before.
• 29:36
  13129194714: And maybe it's a little hank?
• 29:39
  13129194714: But… I think… it… were I Carmine, I… I may have suggested
• 29:50
  13129194714: Are the Forever People the Team Titans?
• 29:54
  13129194714: Through the new gods, Justice League?
• 30:01
  Mark Pracht: I, I think that was probably kind of the idea.
• 30:06
  Mark Pracht: But…
• 30:06
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 30:07
  Mark Pracht: But I think that… like, and here's part of the… here's part of my problem with New Gods, is that we've never really…
• 30:15
  Mark Pracht: like, new gods could just as easily have been called Orion.
• 30:21
  Mark Pracht: the Irish dude.
• 30:24
  13129194714: Right.
• 30:25
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and like, that it's…
• 30:29
  Mark Pracht: like, this is definitely supposed to be the next generation, and when we see, you know, when they have those backup stories about the young gods of New Genesis, right? They're… oftentimes we see the forever… one of the forever people in those stories. So I think that, yeah, I think that that is what they're supposed to be.
• 30:48
  Mark Pracht: Conceptually.
• 30:50
  Mark Pracht: It's not… it's not a one-to-one, you know?
• 30:55
  13129194714: Understood.
• 31:01
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, really, probably the best episode of.
• 31:05
  Mark Pracht: Forever people?
• 31:06
  13129194714: to people.
• 31:07
  Tad Eggleston: You did it this time. Best issue.
• 31:11
  13129194714: I've been doing that way too much, calling issues episodes.
• 31:16
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't even watch TV, I think it just has to do with the number of episodes of 22 panels I've done.
• 31:24
  Mark Pracht: So, yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed this. Oh, 3 more to take today, right?
• 31:29
  13129194714: Two more today.
• 31:32
  Tad Eggleston: 3 tomorrow.
• 31:35
  Mark Pracht: Alright.
• 31:36
  Mark Pracht: Should we go on to New Gods?
• 31:40
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 31:41
  13129194714: Law.
• 31:42
  13129194714: And… The death risk of terrible turpine.
• 31:46
  Mark Pracht: My god, I fucking love this book. I… I…
• 31:53
  Mark Pracht: Detective Turpin is…
• 31:57
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and I'll be… I'll be really upfront about this. Part of it is because on the Superman animated series, when they did the Fourth World stuff.
• 32:07
  Mark Pracht: They had Detective Turpin, Who was straight up Kirby.
• 32:15
  Mark Pracht: So…
• 32:16
  13129194714: Right.
• 32:17
  Mark Pracht: And so…
• 32:19
  Tad Eggleston: He also has a more than passing resemblance to Mr. Bates.
• 32:28
  Mark Pracht: Well, yes.
• 32:30
  13129194714: true.
• 32:34
  Mark Pracht: Well, you know, look, Jack! Jack!
• 32:38
  Mark Pracht: Jack was drawing a lot, alright? But, look, and I think… I think that… that connection…
• 32:46
  Mark Pracht: was something that Bruce Timm and, and,
• 32:50
  Mark Pracht: The team that was doing…
• 32:53
  Mark Pracht: that Superman cartoon sort of imposed on it.
• 32:57
  Mark Pracht: Because I actually… there's another character that we haven't gotten to yet that I think is actually…
• 33:03
  Mark Pracht: more the Kirby analog.
• 33:06
  Mark Pracht: But, that Jack put into it.
• 33:10
  Mark Pracht: But, I… I just… the idea that there's this huge… Huge superhero battle going on.
• 33:22
  Mark Pracht: And here's this beat cop with his bowler hat, who's like, I'm gonna bring you all in!
• 33:28
  Mark Pracht: And… and he gets blasted, and he's still coming.
• 33:32
  Mark Pracht: I just love it. I… I… it…
• 33:36
  Mark Pracht: it strikes me as funny sometimes, because I think oftentimes when I'm reading through these, the ones that I remember the most are not the ones that deal with this overarching sort of mythology.
• 33:49
  Mark Pracht: it's… it's specific characters that I remember forever. I mean, and some of them are tied into everything, like, Big Barda is…
• 33:59
  Mark Pracht: Amazing, right?
• 34:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 34:01
  13129194714: Right.
• 34:03
  Mark Pracht: a funky flash man is… Kind of horrific.
• 34:10
  Mark Pracht: In, like, in its… its pettiness?
• 34:15
  Mark Pracht: But all super memorable, right?
• 34:20
  Mark Pracht: Turpin.
• 34:21
  13129194714: Godfrey, that's who I was thinking of.
• 34:23
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 34:24
  Tad Eggleston: Well, how about Dolly Jarvis here? Was she inviting them to a party, or did she want there to be a small party?
• 34:36
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean…
• 34:37
  Mark Pracht: Look, when I pointed out that, when I pointed out that, Granny Goodness, another character that's like, wow,
• 34:47
  Mark Pracht: when I pointed out that Granny Goodness's power wand looked an awful lot like a personal massager, Sean seemed to get upset, so I'm not gonna… I'm not gonna comment on that. Thanks. Okay.
• 34:59
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, Dolly Jarvis, I don't think is as revered of a character as Granny Goodness, though.
• 35:08
  13129194714: Yeah, no, I think Dolly is,
• 35:13
  13129194714: Do we see her again after this book? Yeah.
• 35:16
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, we do.
• 35:18
  13129194714: Zoo.
• 35:19
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't know that. Sorry. I thought she was another one of the throwaways.
• 35:25
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, we'll give him credit for, like, fleshing out so many of… the background characters. Yeah.
• 35:35
  Mark Pracht: Even if it's just to make you question their sexual activities.
• 35:41
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, this whole thing starts out with them seeing the, people up on the roof.
• 35:48
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah.
• 35:52
  Mark Pracht: Canoodling?
• 35:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Mark Pracht: Isn't that the… isn't that the, the, nomenclature for…
• 36:02
  Tad Eggleston: of the time.
• 36:04
  Mark Pracht: Well… The, the genteel way of putting it?
• 36:10
  13129194714: In the parlance of the summer.
• 36:16
  13129194714: Oh, Harold.
• 36:23
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yes, Dolly. Awesome.
• 36:28
  Mark Pracht: Go ahead.
• 36:29
  13129194714: Also interesting in this one is, you know, when Orion's helmet
• 36:35
  13129194714: You know, gets taken off.
• 36:38
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 36:40
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah.
• 36:40
  13129194714: by Calabac.
• 36:44
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, it's sort of like… I think…
• 36:48
  Mark Pracht: sometimes on this reread, I get… my brain gets a little muddled because I know what happens. I mean…
• 36:57
  Mark Pracht: we know… at this point, Orion's, parentage, correct?
• 37:07
  13129194714: Right.
• 37:09
  Mark Pracht: we know.
• 37:09
  Mark Pracht: But clearly, Kalabak does not.
• 37:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 37:14
  Mark Pracht: Yet, Kalabak's attitude towards Orion smacks of being pissed off that he is the favored brother.
• 37:26
  Mark Pracht: And… It… it… it is kind of interesting, like…
• 37:34
  Mark Pracht: It's an interesting conversation. Does Kalabak know that Orion's his brother?
• 37:40
  Mark Pracht: Pro- I… my gut says no.
• 37:43
  Mark Pracht: Because I don't think Darkseid would share that information, because Kalabak is too damn stupid to not…
• 37:51
  Mark Pracht: Bladder it out.
• 37:54
  Mark Pracht: or… That's probably the answer, but I mean, then… but there's also this psychological hook of it, that…
• 38:05
  Mark Pracht: So, Kalabak sees the favored brother, right?
• 38:10
  Mark Pracht: who is… the one that's chosen to go to New Genesis.
• 38:17
  Mark Pracht: But he's also pretty.
• 38:19
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 38:20
  Mark Pracht: And then he realizes, oh no, you're just as ugly as I am, right?
• 38:29
  Mark Pracht: I think the simplest answer is probably the real one, but…
• 38:32
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. That's just crossed my mind.
• 38:36
  13129194714: Well… Lily Livered New Genesis College.
• 38:42
  13129194714: You've torn victory from my grasp.
• 38:53
  13129194714: But he and Light Ray have a nice moment.
• 38:57
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 38:58
  Tad Eggleston: They do.
• 38:59
  13129194714: light rate.
• 39:00
  13129194714: have a really good, you know, particularly when we think of Gen X war experiences.
• 39:08
  13129194714: you know, I felt this statement. I saw scars, both new and old, taken in the cause of New Genesis.
• 39:16
  Tad Eggleston: Now, here, here's, here's my question,
• 39:22
  Tad Eggleston: For the people more steeped in the lore.
• 39:25
  Tad Eggleston: Is it just that he doesn't have a pretty face that he's…
• 39:30
  Tad Eggleston: worried about, or does he think that he's going to be identified as the son of Darkseid because of his face?
• 39:38
  Mark Pracht: I think it's more the latter.
• 39:40
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 39:41
  Mark Pracht: I think I… it's kind of weird… to me.
• 39:46
  Mark Pracht: To refer to his features as scars.
• 39:51
  Mark Pracht: Although, I guess they probably… I mean, like…
• 39:54
  Mark Pracht: Philosophically, they probably are, you know.
• 39:57
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 39:58
  Mark Pracht: They're the mark… these are the… you know, and it's the mother box that makes him look… like…
• 40:05
  Mark Pracht: Somebody from New Genesis.
• 40:06
  Tad Eggleston: Right, so, so, but, but, like, in that sense, Lightright is saying, hey, your secret's safe with me, and as far as I'm concerned, you're on our side.
• 40:16
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I don't… like, I think it's almost more than that. I mean, like, I don't think that anyone but Orion ever questions whether he is on the side of New Genesis or not.
• 40:26
  Tad Eggleston: Gotcha.
• 40:27
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I think… I think that… that the… the conflict within Orion
• 40:36
  Mark Pracht: again, I'm trying to remember, because I've read this, like, 3 too many times now.
• 40:42
  Mark Pracht: I don't think at this point Orion knows that he's… Darkseid Sun yet.
• 40:49
  13129194714: That's what I was gonna ask, I didn't think he did.
• 40:52
  Mark Pracht: I don't think he does. So, in his mind.
• 40:56
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 41:01
  Mark Pracht: like, the two… the two children both seem to be in the dark, while everybody else knows, right? So, you have this person, right? You have Orion, who, as far as he knows, is born of New Genesis.
• 41:16
  Mark Pracht: Yet, he looks like this.
• 41:18
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 41:19
  Mark Pracht: And what does that say about me, and what is wrong with me, right?
• 41:23
  Mark Pracht: And… that… Also, that he is…
• 41:30
  Mark Pracht: far more violent and brutish than anyone on… you know, he is the greatest warrior of New Genesis because…
• 41:38
  Mark Pracht: He is actually from… Apocalypse, right?
• 41:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right. It's the cruelty that…
• 41:45
  Mark Pracht: you know, it's the nature-nurture thing, right? That his nature
• 41:49
  Mark Pracht: is that of something that is a warrior and is born to battle, right? In a way that other people on New Genesis are not. And I think that this is the key psychological
• 42:02
  Mark Pracht: conflict in Orion is that he knows these things about himself, and he does not understand why.
• 42:11
  Mark Pracht: And I think that that… that is why… that is why he uses the mother box to disguise himself.
• 42:19
  Mark Pracht: To disguise his actual appearance.
• 42:22
  Mark Pracht: Because I don't think anybody on New Genesis
• 42:26
  Mark Pracht: would care, right? If New Genesis is this beacon of understanding and belief and perfection.
• 42:33
  Mark Pracht: I don't think the denizens of Supertown would be like, oh my god, you're ugly, you know?
• 42:42
  Mark Pracht: Maybe some of the kids, but that's because they're kids.
• 42:46
  Mark Pracht: Like, I think that this whole thing, like, what Light Ray is telling him…
• 42:52
  Mark Pracht: is that… is basically what anyone in… on New Genesis would tell him.
• 42:58
  Mark Pracht: And it's something that… Orion can't.
• 43:05
  Mark Pracht: Straighten in his head.
• 43:08
  Tad Eggleston: That makes sense.
• 43:10
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, what do you think?
• 43:11
  Tad Eggleston: John, I think, has 10 minutes.
• 43:15
  Mark Pracht: Yikes!
• 43:17
  Tad Eggleston: Which you guys can continue without me.
• 43:20
  13129194714: But.
• 43:21
  Tad Eggleston: But we should definitely touch on Mr. Miracle before he goes.
• 43:24
  Mark Pracht: That's true.
• 43:26
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I don't… like, just to wrap up, do you… do you,
• 43:32
  Mark Pracht: Do you have any response to what I just said, Sean?
• 43:38
  13129194714: No, I mean, I think…
• 43:41
  13129194714: Again, I… this is… I have not read these before, so… Oh.
• 43:48
  13129194714: I think… you know, Orion's…
• 43:56
  13129194714: You know, it's possible maybe he knows, but we don't know he knows yet, right?
• 44:01
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 44:02
  13129194714: but he's obviously shamed, and so that's what hit me about that.
• 44:09
  13129194714: Is, you know, too many times in popular culture, scars and deformities
• 44:15
  13129194714: You know, make someone a bad person.
• 44:19
  13129194714: Right. And I think that's what he's fighting against here.
• 44:24
  13129194714: And, I just thought it was a really nice moment between the two of us.
• 44:29
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. No, I… I utterly agree. I think it… I think it is a really nice moment, I just think that there is a…
• 44:35
  Mark Pracht: that the real conflict is within Orion and not necessarily…
• 44:41
  Mark Pracht: with the people of New Genesis.
• 44:44
  13129194714: Oh, right, right, I don't think… yeah, it seems like if New Genesis were the type of place
• 44:55
  13129194714: If it were the type of place where having scars would make you be an outcast.
• 45:02
  13129194714: then New Genesis is not…
• 45:06
  Mark Pracht: New Genesis.
• 45:06
  13129194714: you know, Yeah. Yeah, it's not in your dentist.
• 45:09
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 45:11
  Mark Pracht: Okay, as we go into Mr. Miracle, I have to talk about something that I read this week.
• 45:17
  Mark Pracht: I was reading a rather long substack that Michael Shabin wrote about how he created the escapist.
• 45:25
  Mark Pracht: And he… Specifically, talked about The double-page spread on,
• 45:38
  Mark Pracht: 2 and 3 of this issue.
• 45:40
  Mark Pracht: Of Mr. Miracle.
• 45:42
  Mark Pracht: As something that made him go, okay, that's what…
• 45:46
  Mark Pracht: This is… this is part of what the… the… the escapist should be.
• 45:54
  Mark Pracht: I thought that was interesting.
• 45:55
  13129194714: Barb. Bar enda. Enda.
• 45:57
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, with the Female Furious, where she's coming in, and they're… they're… I… look, man, I… I don't… I don't… I don't question Mike. Look, his… his description of how he came up with the Escapist was very rambling, and felt a little too,
• 46:15
  Mark Pracht: mystical for me, you know? He was like, I knew I needed to create a superhero, but…
• 46:21
  Mark Pracht: I thought I'd just let Joe and Sam… created.
• 46:28
  Mark Pracht: And I'm like, Okay.
• 46:31
  Mark Pracht: Alright. And then… then he's like, oh, I just let the characters lead me to it. And then he shows, like, where he made lists of Golden Age character names, and then he created his own list, and I'm like, yeah, okay, that's not… you're trying to figure it out. You're not just waiting for Joe and Sam to give it to you, you know?
• 46:51
  13129194714: Right.
• 46:53
  Mark Pracht: But anyway, but he specifically referenced this page, and then we read this, and I started laughing, because I was like, wow, there it is.
• 47:02
  Mark Pracht: I think he was probably just thinking about, Joe's artwork, you know?
• 47:07
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. Because Joe Cavalier clearly has some Kirby accedance to it.
• 47:17
  Mark Pracht: I'm gonna say… like, and I know we're short on time here, but…
• 47:22
  Mark Pracht: I was not as, I thought this episode felt a little meh.
• 47:31
  Mark Pracht: I feel like this Battle of the id thing…
• 47:35
  Mark Pracht: Like, I feel like Kirby's done this a dozen times over.
• 47:39
  Mark Pracht: You know?
• 47:41
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 47:41
  13129194714: Yeah.
• 47:43
  Mark Pracht: I think…
• 47:47
  Mark Pracht: I was far more invested in what BARDA was doing than in what Scott was going through.
• 47:58
  13129194714: Right.
• 47:59
  Mark Pracht: And…
• 48:00
  13129194714: very… the B story was more interesting than the A story.
• 48:03
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I love, like…
• 48:07
  Mark Pracht: what is really becoming clear to me on this reread, and I think it's because we're going through so slowly, is that BARDA walks this line.
• 48:17
  Mark Pracht: between… Resisting?
• 48:23
  Mark Pracht: the power of Apocalypse, and also living completely within it.
• 48:28
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 48:33
  Mark Pracht: Because, like, she's totally, like, the idea that the female Furies, like…
• 48:41
  Mark Pracht: sometimes it seems like the female Furies are actually outside of the dark side power base, but they can't be. They're completely inside of it.
• 48:54
  Mark Pracht: You know what I'm saying?
• 48:56
  13129194714: Right, no, it was a little confusing.
• 49:00
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 49:00
  13129194714: here.
• 49:08
  Mark Pracht: And I thought, like, what side are they on?
• 49:11
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 49:12
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it doesn't… like, it's not… it's not… it's…
• 49:16
  Mark Pracht: It's interesting in that it's not completely clear, right?
• 49:22
  13129194714: Right.
• 49:23
  Mark Pracht: And… You know, like, and… Lump, or whatever the hell he's called, the, yeah, lump.
• 49:33
  Mark Pracht: Like, I was just like, okay, great.
• 49:35
  Mark Pracht: You know, alright, they're fighting inside of his mind.
• 49:38
  13129194714: Well… Then mine had…
• 49:42
  Mark Pracht: That's right.
• 49:43
  Mark Pracht: You know, to the point where they invoke
• 49:48
  Mark Pracht: I mean, we do get sand, quicksand, which makes it a completely, pulpy 1970s, adventure story.
• 49:59
  13129194714: Right.
• 50:00
  Mark Pracht: I, I, I actually, I loved…
• 50:08
  Mark Pracht: It's just what it is. Like, I love the stuff with Big Barda. I actually love the stuff with Granny talking to, like, Vermin, and
• 50:19
  Mark Pracht: Kanto, You know?
• 50:22
  13129194714: Oh, yeah.
• 50:22
  Mark Pracht: I, like, I loved all of that, but this fight…
• 50:26
  Mark Pracht: the fight that, that, Scott's involved with, I was sort of like, yeah, okay, I know what's gonna happen, like…
• 50:33
  Mark Pracht: At some point or another, he's gonna realize that he has just as much control here as this other guy, and…
• 50:42
  13129194714: Yeah, a friend of mine,
• 50:45
  13129194714: Would call this a pod race.
• 50:49
  13129194714: Where you know exactly what's gonna happen, it's gonna be a spectacle that takes up some time.
• 50:55
  13129194714: Right. Before you get back to the real stores.
• 50:58
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 50:59
  13129194714: So he always calls that the Padre.
• 51:03
  Mark Pracht: Except the pod race was awesome.
• 51:06
  13129194714: Yeah, I agree. He also does not share my feelings about Episode 1.
• 51:14
  Mark Pracht: Sean Harkle Road and Mark Pratt, the two greatest Episode 1 apologists of all time.
• 51:23
  13129194714: A friend of mine's, kid.
• 51:25
  13129194714: When he went to college,
• 51:29
  13129194714: they came over to my house, the family did, and he had some friends with them, and he introduced me, and he's like, this is the only guy I've ever met who defends Jar Jar Binks.
• 51:41
  13129194714: I was like, well, that's how the new generation looks at me, so…
• 51:47
  13129194714: Hey, man. Well, I… I need to let you guys go.
• 51:51
  Mark Pracht: Okay.
• 51:52
  13129194714: But you guys.
• 51:53
  Mark Pracht: I mean.
• 51:53
  13129194714: continue. I, I enjoyed… You know…
• 51:58
  13129194714: So I've read the Mr. Miracle before, I haven't read the other, New Gods, other Force World material before, so…
• 52:05
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 52:07
  13129194714: Yeah, I…
• 52:08
  13129194714: I'm enjoying it and looking forward to the next month. And I love the cover, What's Our Next Book?
• 52:14
  13129194714: The cover of Forever People No. 9 just looks amazing, I assume.
• 52:21
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 52:23
  13129194714: I don't know if that's Adams, or if that's Kirby. I think it's Kirby.
• 52:29
  Mark Pracht: It might be Adams inking Kirby, I don't know.
• 52:33
  Mark Pracht: I mean, it's…
• 52:35
  Mark Pracht: You know, I will say, you know, the next… the next issue of Mr. Miracle is a pretty big turning point.
• 52:41
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I… I… Jimmy Olsen?
• 52:53
  Mark Pracht: Forever People, thumbs up.
• 52:57
  Mark Pracht: new gods this month, wave thumbs up. Mr. Miracle, Thumb halfway up.
• 53:06
  Tad Eggleston: Seems about fair.
• 53:07
  Mark Pracht: I, I'm always, I'm always up for more Big Barta.
• 53:12
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, the big…
• 53:13
  Tad Eggleston: Garda was definitely… I mean, she often, steals the show, but definitely, definitely…
• 53:18
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 53:19
  Tad Eggleston: Stole the show.
• 53:20
  Mark Pracht: I mean, it's… and I'll just say it again. Big Bard is this, like, super complicated character, and the same, like.
• 53:30
  Mark Pracht: She's almost like Orion without the existential angst.
• 53:35
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 53:36
  Mark Pracht: She doesn't… you don't see her stopping and going, like, what does it mean? Who am I? Why… why, you know…
• 53:43
  13129194714: Right.
• 53:46
  Mark Pracht: you know.
• 53:47
  Mark Pracht: Like, it would almost be interesting if she was the total opposite of… of Orion, where she's like.
• 53:55
  Mark Pracht: Why am I so fucking hot and here on Apocalypse?
• 54:06
  Mark Pracht: And I know, I know it's a drawing, sorry, she's hot.
• 54:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:11
  Mark Pracht: We also… well, I mean, like, a lot, you know, and the… those Female Furies, they kind of, like, Guillotina is clearly supposed to be the sex pod, but,
• 54:20
  Mark Pracht: Anyway, but yeah, I don't really have much more to add. I'm looking forward to…
• 54:26
  13129194714: name, too.
• 54:27
  Mark Pracht: Yo, yeah.
• 54:28
  Mark Pracht: Lashina, Guillotina, what is it? Crazy… I don't remember now.
• 54:38
  Mark Pracht: But anyway, yeah.
• 54:40
  Mark Pracht: Next… next month, we'll do this again. It'll be awesome.
• 54:43
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely. For… Right.
• 54:46
  13129194714: Thanks, guys.
• 54:47
  Tad Eggleston: Mark and Sean, this has been the Fourth World
• 54:51
  Tad Eggleston: Book Club on 22 Panels, and we will see you after the next page.