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291. 'Mean Girl' Energy Explained (How to deal with it) · The Kathie Owen Perspective Podcast

• 0:00
  Have you ever walked into a room and immediately felt the emotional temperature change?
• 0:05
  Nobody said anything directly, and nobody technically did anything wrong, but suddenly you feel tension, exclusion, sarcasm, defensiveness, pressure.
• 0:19
  And what's always been interesting to me is most of the time, people don't even realize they're doing it.
• 0:27
  And the longer I study human behavior under pressure in workplaces, in families, in sports, in leadership teams, and even online, the less I become interested in villains, and the more I become interested in unconscious group dynamics.
• 0:43
  Because what we call"mean girl" energy is often something much deeper.
• 0:49
  It's emotional contagion.
• 0:51
  It's nervous systems adapting to group pressure.
• 0:54
  It's belonging behavior.
• 0:56
  And if you look closely, almost all humans are susceptible to it.
• 1:01
  I would even venture to say that all humans are susceptible to it, and that's what we're gonna talk about today.
• 1:10
  Welcome to the Kathie Owen Perspective podcast.
• 1:13
  My name is Kathie Owen, and I study human patterns under pressure.
• 1:18
  I spent years observing leadership behavior, emotional regulation, workplace culture, group dynamics, and psychological safety inside organizations.
• 1:29
  And one of the biggest things I look for when I walk into a workplace is not policies, mission statements, or leadership slogans.
• 1:39
  I look for how the room actually feels, because people feel your leadership before they believe it.
• 1:49
  I'm going to repeat that'cause that's really important.
• 1:53
  People feel your leadership before they believe it.
• 1:58
  That's true in corporations, that's true in families, that's true in sports, that's true in friend groups.
• 2:04
  And if we each look clearly into this, that's true everywhere humans gather.
• 2:11
  If you've watched some of my recent content on psychological safety, trust in leadership, human performance under pressure, reality transurfing, emotional pendulums, and group behavior, then this conversation connects deeply to all of that.
• 2:28
  And before we dive in, if this conversation resonates with you, like, subscribe, and leave a comment below, not because I'm trying to be some big, giant audience on the internet, but because I genuinely think these conversations matter.
• 2:44
  And I think people are hungry for emotional intelligent conversations that help us understand ourselves and each other better.
• 2:53
  One thing I really wanna make clear in this conversation, this is not about attacking any one person in particular, and this is definitely not about creating a victim mentality.
• 3:06
  I actually talk about the victim-victimizer cycle all the time, and I will be talking about it a lot more.
• 3:12
  However, I will also link to my articles on this cycle in the show notes and description below because I find the victim-victimizer cycle to be very helpful in understanding these dynamics.
• 3:28
  So today, actually what I am doing is the exact opposite of victim mentality.
• 3:36
  What I'm talking about is something profoundly human, because men and women do this, leadership teams do this, families do this, friend groups do this, sports teams do this, entire organizations do this.
• 3:53
  Humans unconsciously adapt to emotional environments all the time.
• 4:00
  And one sarcastic comment, one eye roll, one exclusion, one dismissive tone can completely shift the emotional atmosphere of a room.
• 4:11
  And what fascinates me is how fast people unconsciously join the emotional energy, not because they're evil, but because humans are wired for belonging.
• 4:23
  And when belonging pressure enters the system, people start adapting emotionally without even realizing it.
• 4:32
  That's why emotionally unsafe environments become normalized.
• 4:37
  People stop noticing the tension because the tension becomes the culture.
• 4:42
  I see this in my consulting work constantly.
• 4:46
  Leaders will tell me,"We have a great culture here." But when I observe the environment, nobody relaxes when leadership walks in.
• 4:55
  Nobody speaks honestly.
• 4:57
  Everyone is monitoring themselves.
• 4:59
  That's not psychological safety.
• 5:01
  That's nervous system management.
• 5:03
  Huge difference.
• 5:05
  Huge This is actually one reason I find Reality Transurfing so relevant to this topic.
• 5:13
  Vadim Zeland, the author of Reality Transurfing, talks about pendulums.
• 5:19
  You've heard me talk about them all the time, and whether you believe that literally or metaphorically, the concept is incredibly useful psychologically.
• 5:29
  A pendulum feeds on emotional reactivity.
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  It recruits participation.
• 5:34
  It wants polarization.
• 5:36
  It wants sides.
• 5:37
  It wants emotional fuel, and we can easily identify how group dynamics do the exact same thing.
• 5:46
  Once emotional charge enters a group, gossip spreads, defensiveness spreads, outrage spreads, sarcasm spreads, exclusion spreads, and people start emotionally mirroring each other unconsciously.
• 6:01
  And then suddenly, nobody even remembers how the emotional atmosphere got there in the first place.
• 6:08
  That's why social media pile-ons happen.
• 6:11
  That's why workplace gossip spreads.
• 6:13
  That's why family systems repeat the same emotional patterns for decades.
• 6:20
  And if you're emotionally sensitive, you feel it immediately.
• 6:24
  You feel it in the shift in the room before anyone says a word.
• 6:28
  You feel it in your nervous system.
• 6:31
  This is the part people don't talk about enough.
• 6:35
  What does this actually feel like in the body?
• 6:37
  Because if you've ever experienced emotionally unsafe group dynamics, you know exactly what I mean.
• 6:45
  You replay conversations in your head over and over and over again.
• 6:49
  You mentally defend yourself.
• 6:52
  You over-explain.
• 6:53
  You want people to see what's happening.
• 6:56
  Wake up.
• 6:57
  See it.
• 6:58
  You feel emotionally hooked.
• 7:00
  Your nervous system gets activated, and sometimes people end up reacting badly simply because their nervous system feels trapped.
• 7:10
  That's why awareness matters so much.
• 7:14
  Not suppression, awareness.
• 7:17
  Because the goal is not never feel activated,'cause it's gonna happen.
• 7:22
  The goal is awareness without fusion.
• 7:26
  That's the work.
• 7:28
  Ask yourself,"Can I observe the emotional system without completely becoming the emotional system?" That question alone changes everything, and I have to tell you that awareness is not always easy.
• 7:42
  That is why pendulums are so tricky.
• 7:44
  They steal your energy before you even become aware of it.
• 7:50
  Youth sports is one of the clearest place to observe this, and I talk about this often.
• 7:56
  You know, parents get emotionally attached to their child, their side, their team, their disappointment, their status, their belonging group.
• 8:04
  And again, that's human, that's normal.
• 8:07
  But what stood out to me for many years, because my sons were very active in youth sports, was this: I found myself thinking about the other child on the other side, the embarrassed kid, the excluded player, the child who struck out, the nervous system under pressure.
• 8:24
  And I realized something important.
• 8:27
  The goal is not moral superiority.
• 8:31
  The goal is widening the field of awareness, and that's very, very different because widening awareness changes behavior naturally.
• 8:42
  When you widen awareness, you become less reactive, less defensive, less emotionally recruited, less consumed by our side versus their side.
• 8:52
  And honestly, that's leadership.
• 8:56
  Real leadership creates emotional safety.
• 8:59
  It does not emotionally recruit people into tension.
• 9:04
  So the big question I get asked is,"Kathie, how do I step out of the system?" And where do you actually start with this?
• 9:13
  A few things I've personally found helpful is notice the activation first, not the story, the activation.
• 9:21
  Pause before defending yourself.
• 9:23
  Pause before reacting.
• 9:26
  Pause before explaining.
• 9:28
  Sometimes physically stepping away from the environment helps tremendously.
• 9:33
  And I just have to add that sometimes that pause will take patience, persistence, and endurance because so many times those pendulums do not want to relinquish their energy.
• 9:47
  I feel another episode coming on this topic too.
• 9:51
  And humor can interrupt emotional rigidity.
• 9:55
  I will be doing an episode on this very soon on how humor stops the pendulum because this one is true.
• 10:03
  Observation changes everything because the second you begin observing the emotional system, you stop being fully consumed by it.
• 10:11
  And this part is really important.
• 10:14
  You do not have to win the emotional game in order to leave it.
• 10:19
  That realization alone is incredibly freeing, incredibly freeing, especially for highly sensitive, emotional intelligent people who feel everything deeply.
• 10:32
  You know, the longer I study human behavior under pressure, the less interested I become in labeling people as villains, and the more interested I become in awareness.
• 10:43
  Because if we really think about it, most people are not waking up thinking,"How can I emotionally damage someone today?" They're reacting unconsciously.
• 10:54
  They're adapting unconsciously.
• 10:57
  They're participating unconsciously.
• 11:01
  And once you begin seeing that, you stop feeding the emotional pendulum the same way.
• 11:06
  You become calmer, more observant, more grounded, and ironically, that's usually when your leadership becomes more powerful too because people feel your nervous system long before they process your words.
• 11:22
  As I said, people feel your leadership long before they believe it.
• 11:28
  If this conversation resonated with you, I'd genuinely love to hear your thoughts in the comments below.
• 11:34
  And if you wanna go deeper into these ideas, you know, leadership under pressure, emotional regulation, reality transurfing, especially on pendulums and dealing with them, that one is very popular.
• 11:48
  Psychological safety is another thing I talk about, and human patterns under pressure.
• 11:56
  I will link a full blog post and additional resources below on my website.
• 12:02
  They will be in the show notes and description below.
• 12:07
  All right, that's my episode for today.
• 12:09
  Thank you for being here.
• 12:11
  I trust that you found it helpful.
• 12:13
  And if you know someone who could benefit from this, please share it with them.
• 12:19
  And until next time, I will see you in the next episode of the Kathie Owen Perspective Podcast.