Latest / Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew / Everton’s future, Hull drama & Chelsea next | Outside the Box

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Everton’s future, Hull drama & Chelsea next | Outside the Box · Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew

• 0:00
  Right, it's a late night show tonight.
• 0:02
  Ozzy, you've just been watching your lads play footy.
• 0:06
  I have, yeah.
• 0:08
  But Tony's just, before we go, Tony's just told us that we have to talk a bit low tonight because his family are already asleep.
• 0:16
  Talk as loud as you want, Leon.
• 0:17
  Don't start.
• 0:18
  I'd have thought being three wings away from the rest of your family would all be okay, Tony.
• 0:22
  I didn't think there'd be a problem being in the west-west wing.
• 0:26
  Don't start, Leon.
• 0:29
  I still live in the old Swan and in me's house.
• 0:32
  I have no idea what you're talking about.
• 0:34
  No one believes that.
• 0:35
  I'm stuck in my mother's attic.
• 0:37
  No one believes that anymore.
• 0:40
  I'm one of them weirdos who talk on YouTube channels and type in and give people abuse.
• 0:46
  40-year-old virgins, we like to call them, who live in the Mars attic.
• 0:49
  I'm one of them.
• 0:50
  So your mum has blinds that work by remote control.
• 0:53
  That's impressive.
• 0:56
  She's done well.
• 0:58
  Yeah, good on her.
• 0:59
  Good on her.
• 0:59
  So...
• 1:02
  But yeah, Ozzy, the lads played Fuzzy tonight.
• 1:04
  Yes.
• 1:05
  How did you get on?
• 1:06
  For the first time ever, we don't need to talk about that, so we'll gloss over that part.
• 1:11
  But for the first time ever...
• 1:13
  Yeah, my two kids who are now 21 and 18 played footy on the same team.
• 1:18
  It was brilliant, you know.
• 1:21
  They got beat comfortably.
• 1:24
  The team that they played for, one of the reasons why Deacon's been drafted up, he's 18, to the full men's squad is...
• 1:32
  they need a bit of coaching.
• 1:33
  Like they don't play from any shape.
• 1:36
  They're all just running around.
• 1:37
  You'd think it was a kid's team at the minute, but yeah, it was great to watch.
• 1:43
  Why aren't you doing it?
• 1:44
  Why aren't you coaching?
• 1:46
  Listen, I couldn't help myself at first.
• 1:48
  So I stood there on the line quiet with me cap.
• 1:50
  I'm just enjoying the game.
• 1:52
  And then 10 minutes in, I'm going, get tight, get tight, get tight.
• 1:56
  And then the next thing I'm moving on.
• 1:57
  And I tried to be quiet in the first half and then my younger one came on.
• 2:01
  In the second half, I found myself up a little bit further and just watching again.
• 2:05
  And then the next thing I'm going, cut the line off, cut the line off.
• 2:08
  Get out, run it.
• 2:09
  Before I knew I was trying to coach the left-hand side of the pitch.
• 2:11
  And then I did it for about five or 10 minutes.
• 2:14
  And I was like, right, stop it, you absolute idiot.
• 2:17
  To be fair, I thought they couldn't play through the left side.
• 2:19
  I thought we did quite well down my side.
• 2:23
  Yeah, you ain't the problem.
• 2:26
  I thought the left side looked pretty well coached with the head for 10-0.
• 2:29
  You should be coaching, especially with two of them in the team now.
• 2:32
  It was good, you know.
• 2:33
  I might offer them your help.
• 2:37
  I'm sure they'll pay you them.
• 2:38
  Do you know what?
• 2:39
  It was a lot of fun.
• 2:41
  They both did okay.
• 2:44
  It was tough.
• 2:44
  The opposition team, they had three ex-pros playing for them and you could tell the way they think.
• 2:51
  You could just tell when they're in possession.
• 2:53
  But...
• 2:59
  Yeah, but it was great to watch them play together.
• 3:03
  My 18-year-old came on chucking tackles around everywhere.
• 3:07
  He didn't like that for you, did he?
• 3:10
  No, he's not like his dad.
• 3:12
  No, not a chance.
• 3:14
  I used to jump and allow him both to come and make those challenges.
• 3:17
  He's got his mother's tenacity.
• 3:19
  You've got bloody health, yeah.
• 3:21
  Listen, you better believe that.
• 3:24
  as you well know there's nothing to fear with us I'm not messing with Jenny I'm not I'm not saying nothing to her I love you you look absolutely amazing that's all that's the worst I say to Jenny she looks amazing she's great listen you'll get a phone call if she hears this listen I've told you she's great I know the bosses in your house when I'm around she's my boss as well I'm great yeah not soft lad so come on what's going on who's been watching the fussies of night boys
• 3:54
  I haven't seen it.
• 3:55
  You haven't seen it.
• 3:58
  You were watching the Real Madrid game.
• 3:59
  I heard Liam was watching the Liverpool game.
• 4:01
  I went watching the Liverpool game.
• 4:03
  The rumours are not true.
• 4:06
  I did see a bit of that.
• 4:07
  I did see a bit of the Liverpool game.
• 4:10
  Young Kuma scored, didn't he?
• 4:11
  I don't mind young kids coming through.
• 4:14
  Because he actually did well at the weekend.
• 4:18
  You know, in that Liverpool City game, he didn't half get about the pitch.
• 4:21
  But challenging, it's great to see him score.
• 4:22
  It's always good to see the young lads coming through, making their back.
• 4:26
  I was watching because the baby was on the bench, so he's now in and amongst the first team.
• 4:30
  Jadon Dandres is now back.
• 4:31
  Did he get on?
• 4:32
  No, no.
• 4:33
  I just don't think he's quite ready.
• 4:35
  But...
• 4:37
  Trust me, you are going to see soon enough he will be amongst them.
• 4:42
  And trust me, mate, the speed and pace.
• 4:44
  Yeah, I saw his little moments last year when he came on.
• 4:48
  Raw, exciting though.
• 4:50
  He's going to leave a few for dead.
• 4:52
  Yes, definitely.
• 4:53
  I can't wait to watch him.
• 4:54
  So I just wish it was in a blue shirt, as I keep telling him.
• 4:57
  But I'll be supporting him in that red shirt, mate.
• 5:02
  And that's just the way.
• 5:02
  You know what, have he played for us?
• 5:04
  Because he's a striker.
• 5:05
  if he played for us he'd be in and around the first team already wouldn't he I don't get me wrong he's had a couple of little niggles and injuries but listen once he's let off the leash people are going to see Liverpool had no reason to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on that side of the pitch you'll see
• 5:24
  Well, I will say, people will argue tonight, it's tough to say that.
• 5:29
  Barker has just scored a hat-trick.
• 5:33
  But up till this point, he's flattered to deceive.
• 5:36
  You've got the two strikers that are both out injured at the moment.
• 5:40
  I do rate FK better than I is, but Jadon's going to choke.
• 5:45
  Well, they're both injured.
• 5:46
  They're both not quite doing what they were paid to do.
• 5:50
  And Wirtz looks...
• 5:52
  He doesn't look like a Premier League player at the moment.
• 5:53
  He looks drifting through games.
• 5:55
  He's not affecting it.
• 5:56
  Do you know, for Wirtz, I know they're giving it to him now, but he went the whole of last season and didn't really do anything, did he, after a huge transfer fee.
• 6:05
  And I'm trying my best to make a case for, like, he's got to come good at some point, hasn't he?
• 6:12
  I was costing that much money.
• 6:17
  You say he's got to come good.
• 6:19
  He's got to us, honey.
• 6:21
  It's not what he wants.
• 6:22
  It's no guarantee.
• 6:23
  What I will say is the player is still in there.
• 6:27
  He's just been to the German national team under Jurgen Klopp and looked a lot more like the player that Liverpool thought he'd sign that was playing in the Bundesliga and was...
• 6:43
  was the player that Liverpool actually wanted.
• 6:45
  So maybe it's just environment for him.
• 6:47
  Maybe he's not quite settled at Anfield.
• 6:49
  Maybe he doesn't quite feel confident enough to take control of the games.
• 6:54
  I don't know, but there's no doubt that up until this point, and things might change.
• 6:59
  He's...
• 7:01
  not producing what was expected.
• 7:03
  He's not getting on the ball.
• 7:04
  His touches is not right in certain places.
• 7:07
  He's making the wrong decisions at certain times on the pitch.
• 7:10
  He's not shooting as much as he should.
• 7:12
  He's certainly not getting the assists and all the goals.
• 7:17
  New language, new culture.
• 7:19
  As a toffee, I'm thinking long may that continue.
• 7:22
  I've got to be honest.
• 7:23
  You better not turn that on when he comes to Hill Dickinson, mate, or he's in a world of trouble, that little fool.
• 7:28
  Yeah, but it just shows, though, that money doesn't necessarily buy you the success.
• 7:37
  And then, you know, suddenly without meaning to, we're back on the Man City argument.
• 7:41
  Can you think of, Oz, a player who's come in and cost a huge amount?
• 7:46
  Or have you ever had a player come into Everton who everyone's gone, like, this boy's special, and he just wasn't that, he just couldn't adapt to the Premier League, no matter how many times he tried?
• 7:59
  Well, we brought in players that we thought were going to be very good in the Premier League.
• 8:05
  The one that always pops in my mind was Per Calderup, who, by the way, so we signed for probably five million back in the day when five million was a lot of money.
• 8:15
  It's laughable now that five million was a big price, but it was back then.
• 8:20
  And yeah.
• 8:22
  quickly realised that he was a ball-playing centre-half 15 years before now.
• 8:28
  So before it became a real thing, Moisey and Everton needed ball-winning centre-halves and Moisey was chucking the ball up to him and telling him, one, two, three, jump, now, Pear, jump, jump!
• 8:38
  And Pear Collard just couldn't quite get his time.
• 8:41
  And it was like he'd never headed the ball before.
• 8:43
  It's like he'd never got up in Premier League physicality because I think one of his first games...
• 8:48
  was up against John Carew at Villa Park, and we got beat 4-0, and that was like his first and last game.
• 8:55
  And we had a lot of expectations on him, but there was no doubt he was a good player, good defender, because he went back to Fiorentina and had a stellar career, had a really good career, but just wasn't cut out for the Premier League and the physicality of it.
• 9:08
  And, you know, your mate...
• 9:12
  Royston Drenthe, didn't quite, you know, came with a lot of talk.
• 9:15
  Tony, your mate, didn't quite.
• 9:17
  Why is he Tony's mate?
• 9:18
  He didn't go out with him, did you?
• 9:19
  No, definitely didn't.
• 9:20
  Well, we had that one night, but yeah, no.
• 9:25
  Tony was he with us that night was he with us that night in the playground I'm not sure if you but I don't know I can't remember Tony always the answer is I've no idea yeah can't remember no comments but you used to see him in the dressing rooms didn't you when you were having your nice bats and stuff yeah I see that lunatic in there and he had a gun tattooed on his leg just like it was normal you know what I mean yeah okay mate sound absolutely brilliant looked like one of Pablo Escobar's love children love child yeah
• 9:56
  But you know, there are players down the years that come in, whether it was to us or to any team really, with big reputation, a lot of expectations and just don't, for whatever reason, cut it.
• 10:10
  Yeah, people come with high expectations, reputation, just doesn't quite happen at times.
• 10:16
  So, you know, it's no guarantee.
• 10:18
  And that's why...
• 10:20
  David Moyes gets a bit of criticism at times for how he looks at players in such depth and takes his time and scrutinises them and makes sure he's seen them so many times to make sure that nine out of his ten decisions on players he can guarantee will give you at least a six out of ten every week.
• 10:40
  I'm thinking on one on straight to mind.
• 10:43
  Did Feli just fit in straight away or did it take time?
• 10:47
  No, well, Fellaini came in because Moise needed a bit of height in his team and he played for, was it standard Liège?
• 10:55
  Yeah.
• 10:55
  I think he had a really good performance at Anfield for them in the Europa League or Champions League qualifiers or something.
• 11:03
  Played deep midfield.
• 11:05
  They played him in front of the back four.
• 11:08
  And he defended really well, did his jobs, won all his headers, made his tackles, and Moisey was impressed.
• 11:12
  Saw him a couple more times.
• 11:14
  Brought him to us for a good fee.
• 11:17
  Was it like 20 million or 25?
• 11:19
  25, I think.
• 11:21
  24, 25 million.
• 11:22
  And within about five or six games, we realised he couldn't play in front of the back four.
• 11:30
  He wasn't disciplined enough, really, and his passing was not as good as you needed to be in there for a player.
• 11:38
  What it did do with bringing him in, it made sure Bainsey and myself maybe could get a lot more game time at them moments because we had a lot more height in the team.
• 11:47
  And maybe we'd get the passing round in those ways.
• 11:49
  But suddenly, Feli came in as a deep number six.
• 11:53
  And actually we had to push him further forward.
• 11:55
  And then suddenly we realised he had a Velcro chest.
• 11:58
  And you could kick the ball at him from absolutely anywhere.
• 12:00
  He was unbelievable at that, by the way.
• 12:02
  I remember watching him and just being like...
• 12:04
  He could suck it onto his chest, yeah.
• 12:05
  He was like the best in the primitive chest control at that point, in my opinion.
• 12:08
  It was that good with the ball coming in.
• 12:10
  Who was ever better than him at controlling the ball from anywhere on the pitch on his chest?
• 12:15
  I don't know if there is anyone who has ever done it better than him.
• 12:18
  He was that good then.
• 12:19
  So you could, we used to just, you know, play diagonals.
• 12:22
  So to answer the question, it did take time for him to settle in then.
• 12:26
  It had to take time to find the position.
• 12:27
  It didn't take him a whole season.
• 12:29
  But how long, how long did it take you that's until you thought, like, that's his position, that's what he does, that's what he's got, that there's his strengths because he's come from a different league.
• 12:37
  How many games did you say?
• 12:39
  I'm still waiting for him.
• 12:40
  Stop it, you.
• 12:41
  Is he a whinge?
• 12:42
  He'll whinge when you see him.
• 12:44
  He's a cerebral whinger.
• 12:46
  I'm seeing him for ages.
• 12:47
  I can say what I want.
• 12:49
  God, have you any season you're the size of the ball?
• 12:51
  No, do you know what?
• 12:51
  It wasn't too long but he suddenly started competing with Tim Cale for a position
• 12:58
  so he'd come in to be a complimentary in all the different ways we play football and suddenly without us meaning for it to happen they were competing over the same positions and then call it fortunate or not, before too long it definitely wasn't fortunate for the team, but fortunate for Moyes not needing to pick between Feli and Tim all of our strikers got injured long term, Louis Saha had done his hamstring badly, the yak
• 13:27
  tore his Achilles and suddenly we went into that season thinking we can really do something here because you've got a good balanced team we've got two top strikers I think we had another striker in there as well I think you had Victor and Vornis still floating around we had options
• 13:43
  And suddenly, we had injuries to everyone, and Tim and Feli played up front between them.
• 13:49
  And we basically played 4-6-0, but both of them were up front, but midfield.
• 13:56
  And it actually worked for us for a while because they both wanted to go and score goals, but they both wanted to work back.
• 14:01
  And Feli had a Velcro chest, and we could play it up front.
• 14:04
  Tim got it up.
• 14:05
  It worked really well for a few months, but just not sustainable long-term to play without a striker because teams will work you out.
• 14:13
  Well, our number 10 bagged a goal on the weekend.
• 14:15
  Ozzy, you did say it was going to be a draw as well, two all, a hole.
• 14:21
  So is that two points dropped?
• 14:25
  What do you think?
• 14:27
  I had to threaten him to get him to 2-2, by the way.
• 14:29
  He said he was going to lose 2-1, if you remember correctly.
• 14:32
  Me?
• 14:32
  Ozzy?
• 14:32
  No, I never.
• 14:33
  No.
• 14:33
  I said a draw all the way.
• 14:35
  You said we were going to win.
• 14:36
  Yeah, I said a draw all the way.
• 14:38
  Do I have to coax him into something?
• 14:40
  Do they coax him into saying we were going to win?
• 14:42
  I said it would be a win, and I said I want it to be a win, but I think it's going to be a draw.
• 14:46
  Ozzy said 1-0.
• 14:47
  Did I first?
• 14:47
  I did.
• 14:48
  Didn't you?
• 14:49
  Yeah.
• 14:50
  Well done, Oz.
• 14:51
  That's brilliant.
• 14:52
  Well, yeah, what do you think?
• 14:53
  Two points dropped?
• 14:54
  Rich said that did not be coupon.
• 14:59
  Yes, I do think that's two points dropped.
• 15:01
  But only in the sense that, you know, we got ourselves ahead in the game.
• 15:08
  We did miss a lot of chances, which we'll come on to in a minute.
• 15:12
  But just the manner as which we conceded the goals.
• 15:14
  We don't go, I mean, if you go away from home and score two goals, especially to a team that's just been promoted, you've got to win that game.
• 15:22
  You can't go there and concede two goals and expect to win.
• 15:25
  Yeah.
• 15:27
  The manner of the goals as well.
• 15:30
  Two mistakes, really, by Ainsley Maitland-Niles, who has been excellent for us since he's joined the football club.
• 15:38
  He's what everybody wanted, a footballing right-back, a player that looks forward, has got a good pass.
• 15:43
  We saw that for his assist.
• 15:45
  But with that, there are moments that he plays like a forward-thinking full-back rather than a defender that's just going to kick it out the pitch from anywhere.
• 15:54
  And I thought it was telling...
• 15:57
  after the game when David Moyes said something like there was, how did he phrase it along the line?
• 16:04
  There was a lot of non-Everton moments out there and a lot of not-Everton defending.
• 16:09
  I know exactly what he was talking about.
• 16:10
  He was talking about people trying to do backheels when you're in your own, couldn't hear your own corner, like being under pressure, people trying to do backheels.
• 16:18
  It was not a surprise at all to me that he got hooked within the next five minutes.
• 16:23
  I started warming up at home.
• 16:27
  Just in case I was going to go on.
• 16:29
  Jesus Christ.
• 16:31
  Do you think that's what we're going to have to expect from him moving forward or is it just one bad game?
• 16:37
  I'd be surprised.
• 16:39
  He might try something again, right?
• 16:42
  There might be a moment within the next 10 games that
• 16:47
  I actually think for the next two or three games, he'll kick a lot out, which I don't mind when it's in the right moment.
• 16:53
  You'll get the message.
• 16:54
  We still want him to play football, but I do think it'll seep back in and he'll do it again once.
• 16:59
  But for the most part, you learn quickly.
• 17:01
  Once.
• 17:01
  If you want to play... Has he still scarred from noisy slaps?
• 17:07
  Honestly.
• 17:08
  You won't believe how...
• 17:10
  You'll believe how skillful I was when I started playing for Everton and then.
• 17:16
  Year by year, Moisey took another trick from me.
• 17:18
  Oh.
• 17:19
  But he...
• 17:24
  Sorry, go on.
• 17:25
  You know what?
• 17:26
  I was just going to say Bill there.
• 17:29
  He has to.
• 17:30
  He's going to have to because, you know, he won't take that for much longer.
• 17:35
  I mean, that's been probably the politest and nicest way he's been told so far.
• 17:40
  I'm sure they'll get more frequent and more.
• 17:44
  I'm trying to think of the nicest words.
• 17:45
  I'm trying to be best not to swear anymore.
• 17:47
  Hostile, they'll get.
• 17:49
  Oh, piss off.
• 17:52
  That's not a swear word.
• 17:53
  That's not a swear word.
• 17:55
  Don't threaten me with a good time.
• 17:57
  I know.
• 17:59
  That's generally as bad as I like to make it.
• 18:02
  Might as well say please or thank you.
• 18:04
  You know what I mean?
• 18:05
  That's brilliant.
• 18:06
  I mean proper swear words.
• 18:07
  I'll bring myself to go worse.
• 18:11
  Yeah.
• 18:11
  Look, so I think we should have, I think we definitely should have won the game.
• 18:18
  The fact that we went behind to a mistake, I'm thinking we're not going to make any more.
• 18:21
  We've goals ahead in the game.
• 18:22
  We should have gone ahead more.
• 18:25
  It's definitely two points dropped.
• 18:28
  And I know we're away from home.
• 18:30
  And I've always said a good... Any points away from home in the Premier League is good.
• 18:34
  But I think I always said you have to think about the circumstance in the moment.
• 18:37
  And I think I was...
• 18:39
  I think that was definitely two points dropped.
• 18:41
  We were the better team.
• 18:43
  We offered an awful lot more.
• 18:45
  We had our moments.
• 18:46
  And when you're the better team, I mean, there have been a couple of games where I think we got good points, but I definitely think this was an okay point rather than a bad point.
• 18:56
  It was definitely a drop point.
• 18:57
  Two points dropped.
• 19:00
  To be losing one, sorry Lee, to be losing one nil and then come back to me, I just think...
• 19:07
  When we're 1-0 down, do we really think, I mean, with all due respect and the way we look at it and the way we're playing, I don't head into games expecting to score two goals.
• 19:19
  I'm open to win.
• 19:21
  I just don't see two clear goals in us.
• 19:23
  I'm not going to lie, and that sounds harsh, but I just don't because we're just not taking enough chances up top.
• 19:30
  I mean, it's insane that Barry slots the chance he does and misses the one he misses.
• 19:36
  But I do believe the lad is getting better.
• 19:38
  And when you just look at him purely for the goals that he's scored so far this season, he's having a good start.
• 19:44
  It's actually a decent start, isn't it?
• 19:46
  So I'm not giving that lad any stick in any way.
• 19:50
  I'm just saying...
• 19:53
  Well, you know, I struggle seeing more than one goal in Everton, but hopefully he's going to be a little bit more... What's the word I'm looking for?
• 20:03
  A little bit more conclusive, a little bit more... Just vicious and decisive.
• 20:11
  Potent sort of.
• 20:12
  Yeah, potent.
• 20:14
  Just be a killer.
• 20:15
  just a little bit more killer instinct ruthless ruthless that's the way that I was looking for just a little bit more ruthless because the best part about it is he's getting into the positions he's finding himself in these positions and he is missing the chances and I've always listened to I always listen to footballers and I listen to various stories that they tell or I've read books over the years autobiographies documentaries all of these things I've listened to
• 20:40
  And they all say the same thing.
• 20:42
  You better start worrying when he's not getting chances.
• 20:46
  If he's getting chances, that means he's in the right place and eventually they will start going in.
• 20:51
  And I just think this boy does keep finding himself in the right places.
• 20:55
  So it's only a matter of time.
• 20:58
  No, you're right, but there's a balance to it.
• 21:03
  if you are, you know, they always say, as long as you keep getting the chances, which is right.
• 21:08
  But there's also a moment where, and this is a credit to him, there are moments when you're actually a good enough sort of player to be instinctive, to know where to be, to get the chances.
• 21:20
  But then when you start missing them,
• 21:22
  You then stop getting in there.
• 21:24
  You know where to be, but you start thinking, well, I'm just going to run somewhere else now because I'm getting a lot of stick over missing these chances.
• 21:30
  So I'm going to run somewhere else.
• 21:32
  And that's slightly different to not getting the chances anymore.
• 21:34
  That is kind of avoiding the chances.
• 21:37
  And to be fair to him, he keeps getting criticized because he keeps on getting in there and keeps getting...
• 21:43
  I mean, he's missed.
• 21:44
  I think I saw a pop-up.
• 21:45
  This might not be exactly right, but he's missed 10 big chances on his own this season and Erling Haaland's missed five and he's in second, joint second.
• 21:54
  Yeah.
• 21:55
  So, if you look at it in the way that Everton are creating chances, great.
• 21:59
  If you look at it that he's missing them, maybe he's going to get a couple more.
• 22:02
  To ask the player, Oz, does it ever get to a point where
• 22:07
  Let's just say a player won't slot him in.
• 22:11
  Have you ever played to the striker before and you go, you know this fella's going to miss and I'm not slotting him in, I'll go myself.
• 22:20
  I'm sure there is.
• 22:21
  I know that's hard, but have you experienced that?
• 22:24
  Have you played it?
• 22:24
  Because you've played, you know, I'm trying to be the best I can here.
• 22:28
  I think I was probably that striker for a few people.
• 22:32
  Stop it, stop it.
• 22:33
  I know you weren't.
• 22:34
  But you've played.
• 22:35
  If I'm running through on goal and I've got...
• 22:39
  Louis Saha to my left and Tony Hibbert to my right.
• 22:42
  I'm looking to play Luian.
• 22:44
  I know that.
• 22:45
  Going through it's good situations.
• 22:47
  Listen, if you're keen in Jules Vio and you're running towards goal and you know you slot him in and it's a clear one-on-one chance or you take this on yourself, the defender's in front, you've got to beat him.
• 23:00
  Like, at what stage does it have to get to?
• 23:02
  How many more?
• 23:03
  How many big chances does someone have to miss before he goes, right, you know what?
• 23:07
  I've had enough now.
• 23:08
  I can't take any more.
• 23:09
  Because you must have played.
• 23:10
  You've had some naughty forwards play with you in your time.
• 23:14
  Yeah.
• 23:15
  You've had a couple.
• 23:16
  I'm saying no names, but you know who they are.
• 23:20
  Yeah, there was some.
• 23:23
  less than stellar ones, shall we say.
• 23:26
  But, even if we talk about someone like the Strach, you know, the big Strach.
• 23:31
  See, I didn't want to say his name, but I was going to add a different reference for him.
• 23:35
  I'm sure he's not listening.
• 23:36
  I'm sure he'll be okay.
• 23:37
  But someone like that, or, you know, Umar on the ass, even.
• 23:40
  You know, someone like that who have big smiles on their face, they love it, you know, but, yeah, they might not have scored the amount of goals, they might not be there then.
• 23:53
  Yeah, there comes a moment.
• 23:54
  But the best thing is, did you hear the interview after the game of Kean and Drew's Beall with...
• 24:01
  with Big Tieno, and he was such high praise, and he was saying, I'm hard on him.
• 24:06
  This is Keenan talking about Tieno.
• 24:09
  I'm hard on him because I want so much for him.
• 24:11
  I want so good.
• 24:13
  I want him to be the best.
• 24:14
  I want to provide goals for him.
• 24:16
  I want him to be the top.
• 24:18
  And he's given it all this.
• 24:19
  So as long as the noises are still like that, they want him to succeed so much.
• 24:24
  Then you don't need to worry about them not providing chances for him.
• 24:28
  You just want him to find that.
• 24:31
  that run where things start literally going in off his hip.
• 24:35
  And to be fair, he did have one that went in off his hip a couple of weeks back.
• 24:38
  But things just go for him because, yeah, I mean, I heard players, sorry, fans quite critical of a number of sort of reasons why we didn't win the game.
• 24:48
  And a lot getting on his back.
• 24:51
  And yes, of course, you need your top strikers if you're getting that many chances.
• 24:54
  Because we...
• 24:55
  You said, Tony, before that you don't expect us to score many goals.
• 24:58
  We're creating a lot of chances at the minute.
• 25:00
  We are.
• 25:00
  We are.
• 25:02
  And actually, unlike last year, and definitely for the last five years, I don't panic if we go behind in games now because the noise is, again, I think Keenan was the main person to get interviewed after the game.
• 25:15
  He's talking to say...
• 25:17
  that we don't panic, it galvanises us.
• 25:19
  We know we've got enough quality in the team and we're going to come back and we don't give up.
• 25:22
  It doesn't phase us, it doesn't make us change, it doesn't make our game plan.
• 25:27
  They were exactly the things that we got drilled into us in David Moyes' first time around, when we had the likes of, you know, Cale, Pienaar, Arteta, myself in there, others, strikers, you know...
• 25:43
  And I know it was like being in those dressing rooms.
• 25:44
  And actually there is a lot of, a lot of faith, you know, sometimes you have to give the opposition credit.
• 25:49
  Sometimes you, that they've scored a goal.
• 25:51
  Sometimes your team's made a mistake and you go, well, we're up against it, but we're not blaming anyone.
• 25:57
  We don't panic.
• 25:57
  It's time to write.
• 25:58
  We're going to rely on each other.
• 25:59
  Now I'm going to turn to you.
• 26:00
  You're going to step your game up.
• 26:01
  You're going to step your game up.
• 26:03
  And we're going to go in search of that goal.
• 26:05
  And actually what the opening goal did do, it made Kean and Dewsbury Hall raise this game because in the first half, he was quite poor.
• 26:12
  And our best player in the first half by a mile was Harrison Armstrong.
• 26:16
  And Harrison was great for an hour.
• 26:19
  He was great for an hour.
• 26:20
  And then he made one bad pass and he followed it up with another bad pass and another bad pass.
• 26:25
  And he did like four things back to back.
• 26:28
  Having had a brilliant hour that doing four things back to back
• 26:32
  Most managers look at you and go, well, he's having a bit of a bad run.
• 26:35
  I'm not sure he's going to be able to.
• 26:37
  It doesn't look like he's going to play his way through this little patch.
• 26:40
  And I've got enough on the bench.
• 26:41
  I'm going to get him on.
• 26:43
  So my message to Harrison Armstrong in those moments would be, if you've made a bad pass or you've done something wrong, make sure the next thing you do is good and positive.
• 26:51
  And then you'll stay on the pitch.
• 26:55
  If you have four things back-to-back where you do them negatively,
• 26:58
  everyone's going to start looking at your end, looking at the bench and things like that.
• 27:02
  But what it did to Keenan, it sort of made him stick his chest out.
• 27:05
  And he suddenly went right.
• 27:07
  Well, 1-0 beyond.
• 27:08
  All of these words that he said, I saw in his second half performance.
• 27:12
  He stuck his chest out.
• 27:12
  He got the ball.
• 27:13
  He was...
• 27:14
  better in everything he did.
• 27:15
  He took the ball.
• 27:16
  He was bringing other people into play.
• 27:17
  He was running beyond, scored the goal, assist obviously for the second one, which was great for my fantasy league this week, Liam.
• 27:26
  So I was pleased and I don't panic.
• 27:30
  I don't panic when we go behind in the way he does.
• 27:32
  Just remember who sold you at the start who was having the big seasons, boys.
• 27:35
  I did tell you Keenan was going to have his best season and I did tell you Tyreek George was going to have it and they are both doing well.
• 27:42
  And guess what?
• 27:42
  I have Tiano Barry up front as well because he's the only forward in the league I know who's starting every single week without fail.
• 27:49
  So Tiano Barry is in my Premier League team, my fantasy football team.
• 27:53
  That's a point though.
• 27:53
  Do you think if we did have another striker then he'd be forced to actually execute these chances that he's missing?
• 27:59
  Is that part of it?
• 28:02
  I don't think that comes into it.
• 28:04
  I think he's trying to...
• 28:07
  If I say yes to that answer, that is a false sense of security because that means he's missing them unpurposely.
• 28:15
  So if you say yes... No, I'm not missing them on purpose.
• 28:17
  No, I know what you're saying, but... Is there an element of that extra little bit of pressure on a player means that I have to go all the way?
• 28:25
  Oh, possibly, yeah.
• 28:26
  When Besser and Barney were competing against each other?
• 28:29
  It was almost like you could say it in them, like, I've got a score here.
• 28:32
  Do you know what I think that'll be?
• 28:33
  I think he'd be a lot more gutted when he misses.
• 28:37
  That's the only difference I think it makes.
• 28:38
  When Beto's sitting on that bench waiting and Barry misses a chance in the second half and now we're gone, you're not right, I'm getting hooked here.
• 28:48
  But now he knows, no, I'm not getting hooked.
• 28:50
  See, I... Go on.
• 28:53
  Does that mean... Well, I wouldn't know what it means as a player, but in my mind, I'm just thinking, he knows he's getting hooked here, and he's not that gutted.
• 29:03
  But he'll be gutted when he misses him.
• 29:05
  But he's better sitting there, because he knows he's getting bagged off, and that's when I think he'll be gutted.
• 29:09
  Yeah, so...
• 29:12
  You're kind of getting it right there with how it feels.
• 29:17
  So, for instance, when Beto was here last season, if one of them misses a chance, then they actually go, oh, no, that might be a big chance.
• 29:27
  And then...
• 29:28
  You're looking to the bench going, oh, don't take me off.
• 29:30
  I've got another chance.
• 29:31
  And, you know, by the way, Barry's getting three chances a game at the minimum, maybe four, right?
• 29:36
  Maybe four.
• 29:38
  So if he misses the first one, oh, it's a bit anxious.
• 29:41
  And then as the second one comes out, you're like, I've got to score this one because otherwise he's going to take me off.
• 29:46
  And then you start getting really uptight over the second one.
• 29:48
  And then if you happen to be on for the third one, it's do or die.
• 29:51
  And by the time you go to make the chance, you know, the pressure that's on it.
• 29:54
  Whereas what he's got at the minute...
• 29:57
  He misses the first chance, yes, but he's not going to come off.
• 30:00
  So I could just stay nice and relaxed for the second one.
• 30:02
  And when the second one comes my way, I'll take that because I'm going to stay on.
• 30:06
  There's no panic about him getting dragged off because he misses chances now, if you know what I mean.
• 30:10
  Yeah, so it could actually be a positive then, couldn't it?
• 30:12
  It is a positive because...
• 30:14
  He can stay more relaxed.
• 30:15
  He can stay calm because he's only going to come off either if he gets injured or, you know, with a couple of goals up or like at the end of the last game when he was literally had cramp after 80 minutes and we cannot mess with him making him run through cramp for two minutes, that kind of thing.
• 30:29
  So get him off.
• 30:30
  So he's going to come off for them reasons, but actually just for missing his chances, he's not going to come off for them at the moment.
• 30:37
  So actually, I think he looked more like when he went through for the chance he scored for the goal.
• 30:42
  If that was...
• 30:44
  I mean, previously, he may have not been on the pitch for that point because Beto might have been on for that point because he'd missed his chances.
• 30:49
  Whereas, so David Moyes has got to sort of keep him on.
• 30:52
  So he's going to get the benefits of...
• 30:55
  of that if the chances keep coming his way.
• 30:57
  Tierno's now staying on and he's nice, a lot more relaxed.
• 31:00
  He's not trying to just, you know, as I keep using the word anxious, but he's not uptight.
• 31:04
  He's not snatching at it because this might be it.
• 31:08
  And he went through on goal, picked his head or picked his spot, caressed, you know, passed it into the goal.
• 31:13
  Brilliant.
• 31:14
  And so we're all getting, as long as he stays fit, we're going to get the reward.
• 31:18
  And I do think,
• 31:21
  I'm pleased with his chances.
• 31:24
  I think he's improving of where he's running.
• 31:27
  I'm not sure technically I'm seeing him sort of really improve yet.
• 31:33
  Maybe that'll come.
• 31:34
  But he's getting the chances.
• 31:36
  He should have scored three minimum at the weekend, but he scores one.
• 31:40
  I mean, I know a lot of strikers that made their career on those kind of numbers, taking one of three chances a game.
• 31:47
  But even if they're major chances, I mean, people used to criticize Andy Cole, by the way, who scored like 290 leading Premier League goals because he missed two good chances of the game.
• 31:58
  But what a striker he was.
• 32:00
  Andrew Cole, I think he's changed his, made sure he's got his full name in.
• 32:03
  But what a striker, but he missed a lot of chances.
• 32:06
  So maybe, I mean, if Tieno can keep the record up of one every two games,
• 32:13
  And when we look at the end of the season, he had 80 big chances, but scored 29 goals.
• 32:21
  He gets 18 to 20 Premier League goals.
• 32:22
  He's had a great season.
• 32:31
  Yeah We'd all take that At the start of the season Would we?
• 32:34
  Mate 18-20 Premier League goals Is a great return And it means He's improving rapidly And he's not Touched the surface yet Because he's only You've got to remember How young he is He's only going to get better And he's only Going to get more confidence And that That for me Is the biggest word With strikers Confidence
• 32:54
  I just think that's the difference.
• 32:55
  When a striker's confident, they're taking things on that they don't usually do.
• 32:59
  They're taking shots from places they don't usually take them because they've got confidence levels through the roof.
• 33:04
  And I just think the lad is getting more confident.
• 33:08
  But time will tell.
• 33:09
  Time will tell.
• 33:10
  What has everyone made of the little fellow Lissandro Martinez doing what he's done?
• 33:16
  Because I think it's brilliant.
• 33:17
  I think it's hilarious.
• 33:19
  It's brilliant when it's another football club, isn't it?
• 33:23
  You just sit there.
• 33:24
  You know, why was I watching it?
• 33:26
  I'd come back from our baby's footy and we put it on.
• 33:30
  And I was actually watching the interview live.
• 33:34
  The kids must have had it.
• 33:35
  It was on Amazon Prime.
• 33:37
  And as soon as he said it, because the guy asking the questions, I know that man as well.
• 33:44
  I know, is it?
• 33:45
  He actually... Clark.
• 33:47
  Gabriel Clark.
• 33:48
  Gabriel, Gabe.
• 33:49
  Gabe, Gabriel Clark.
• 33:51
  He didn't realize, he couldn't believe what he was saying.
• 33:54
  Yeah, it was like he was shocked.
• 33:56
  And he doubled down on it.
• 33:58
  And I was just thinking, go on, this is brilliant.
• 34:02
  I was glad he asked him to repeat it because I was like finished watching the game and I'd watched that game and United should have got something from it.
• 34:11
  They had great chances.
• 34:12
  They're a little bit naive defensively.
• 34:14
  They're not scoring goals at the top.
• 34:15
  Anyway, and I was just potting around, cleaning up before I go to bed, but I'd left the telly on and I was coming back into sort of, you know, pottering around the room.
• 34:23
  You've been doing the dishes, Ash.
• 34:25
  You told you to wash up.
• 34:26
  Kind of, yeah.
• 34:27
  Probably cleaning up anyway.
• 34:28
  And as I've literally come back in, I've gone like, you know, when you hear something, you go,
• 34:33
  What's he saying?
• 34:34
  And then I stopped and I was like that.
• 34:38
  So I was in America at Denver so I haven't seen any post-match interviews.
• 34:43
  They only had the games on where I was.
• 34:45
  It was last night, Champions League.
• 34:47
  He gave it to the league.
• 34:47
  Oh, it was Champions League?
• 34:48
  Yeah, Champions League.
• 34:49
  It was Champions League, yeah.
• 34:50
  He just went, so you're saying you're not happy with the squad?
• 34:52
  And he went, absolutely.
• 34:53
  Absolutely.
• 34:54
  Yeah, they went, so it's another poor performance.
• 34:56
  It's another bad start to the league.
• 34:59
  You know, bad start to the season continues.
• 35:01
  You know, the manager's going, what do you think?
• 35:03
  And he went, basically, he said, stop criticising the manager.
• 35:07
  Don't even criticise the players.
• 35:08
  If you want to criticise someone, look at the hierarchy.
• 35:11
  The techno director needs to take a lot of stick.
• 35:14
  And they went, you thought he'd sign more players or something?
• 35:16
  They went, yeah, he needed to sign more players.
• 35:18
  Basically said, we're not quite good enough.
• 35:20
  And...
• 35:22
  yeah and he just kept saying the hierarchy of the club the hierarchy of the club and then Comette was like just check you just said that yeah just check you said that he's going yeah so he said you saying you're not happy with the recruitment and he used the words absolutely or he said something along them lines of yes absolutely you're not happy with the recruitment he was basically saying you don't think your squad's good enough and he was basically saying yeah Oz do you know you're a player in that dressing room how do you feel he basically told you she said all crap yeah
• 35:50
  Yeah, it depends if I'm a fringe player or I'm one of the main players in the squad.
• 35:55
  And then you know what the best part was?
• 35:57
  Till Evans comes out and does the interview after it and you can just tell.
• 36:01
  He goes to Tillman.
• 36:01
  So we've just had Martinez out here, mate, and he's just basically said that he's not happy with the recruitment and mate, Uri Tillman, just goes, Fulcombe, please, no comment mode.
• 36:14
  I've got no comment for that.
• 36:15
  I've got no comment.
• 36:17
  It depends.
• 36:19
  I thought Sherlock Holmes was questioning him for a second.
• 36:23
  I've got no comment for that.
• 36:25
  His arse was completely gone.
• 36:27
  He did no part in that.
• 36:29
  They pay me wages, mate.
• 36:31
  Don't bring this trouble to me.
• 36:34
  Tillemans coming out and getting interviewed next after Martinez has just basically said the club haven't signed good enough players as part of what he's saying.
• 36:44
  And Tillemans has just been signed in but thinking, cheeky, cheeky.
• 36:48
  right yeah he's like the best summer signing my team was being quizzed by pc plum because made to come up with i've got no comment for that that's more so i could think was does this fella think he's in a police station that's all i think that's all i was thinking about it's good like what are you doing if a player puts you one of your teammates put you in that position
• 37:09
  What can you... What do you do?
• 37:12
  Do you back them?
• 37:13
  It depends on the feeling in the dressing room.
• 37:15
  It depends on how galvanised you are, what the feeling around the club is.
• 37:21
  Do you feel you're all together?
• 37:23
  Do you feel you've been sort of let down?
• 37:25
  It's tough to say you're right to ever criticise the club in that way.
• 37:30
  Even if you do believe it, you get paid to go out there and do a job.
• 37:34
  It doesn't matter whether you've...
• 37:37
  you know, what teammates you've got alongside you.
• 37:39
  You've got to go out and do the job.
• 37:40
  It's the criticisms for other people to make.
• 37:43
  Listen to Soaksport.
• 37:44
  And if you do feel that... Yeah, but if you do feel that as a player, you generally keep that within house.
• 37:50
  I mean, and I know the world has changed with regards to exposure and what you say privately and what you say out in public with social media these days.
• 37:58
  It's completely changed, but that's something that always sort of happened in the dressing room.
• 38:02
  But, you know, quite often you try and sort of...
• 38:05
  back at it but if he came in a dress room you'd be going straight away you mean me you're talking about me you better not be talking about me another funny part was was on the doc was was working the broadcast and he goes uh he gave it to him he's given it to him and i think like he must have forgot that he'd done it himself and then someone must have reminded him in a break of something that he'd done he went oh yeah i apologize i had to apologize after i'd done something similar because he'd done it to ferguson didn't he
• 38:34
  He wasn't happy with the recruitment or something, or he questioned it.
• 38:38
  And then he asked, three days later, he had to apologize.
• 38:41
  I think it was, was it to do when he was, they were talking about him signing a new contract and he was like, I'm not doing it until I know what's happening with the recruitment or something like that.
• 38:48
  Yeah.
• 38:49
  The club aren't showing enough ambition.
• 38:52
  Oh, and then he apologised after it.
• 38:56
  It made good to be, but when you've won the World Cup and you've done this and he could go play anywhere he wants, he's probably not that bothered.
• 39:02
  I think he seems a bit frustrated that he's not winning at United.
• 39:06
  My thought process was when I was listening to it directly, straight away, he's engineering the movie.
• 39:12
  Yeah, that's what it felt like.
• 39:13
  Because if Bruno Fernandes comes out and says it, I kind of think that's okay because he's the captain.
• 39:19
  He's basically speaking on behalf of the squad.
• 39:22
  So I'm not saying it's right, but I get it if the captain comes out and says it.
• 39:25
  Do you know what I mean?
• 39:27
  He's a player of authority at the club if the captain says it.
• 39:30
  But when someone like him comes out and says it, I just thought, oh, you're an engineer in your movie, lad, you're showing your cards.
• 39:36
  So I'll be amazed if he's still there after Christmas.
• 39:40
  Yeah, I agree.
• 39:42
  But they... Would you say they've...
• 39:45
  I mean, they spent a bit of money in terms of Belieber coming in, Tielemans coming in.
• 39:49
  He looked all right last night in.
• 39:51
  I like the look of that Belieber.
• 39:52
  He was solid.
• 39:53
  He was a little tank.
• 39:54
  Yeah, he's a good player.
• 39:56
  Where did he get him from?
• 39:58
  Where did they play...
• 40:00
  Brighton?
• 40:00
  I didn't know that.
• 40:02
  Yeah, spent a bit of money on him.
• 40:04
  I think most people had United looking good at the start of the season.
• 40:08
  So, I think the players need to have a little bit of a look at themselves.
• 40:12
  It's 100% players.
• 40:14
  It's 100% players.
• 40:15
  100%.
• 40:16
  You don't finish the season like they did and get the Champions League spot and then just fall off out of nowhere.
• 40:24
  It's like I hear the stories of New York as a player.
• 40:27
  You know when a caretaker manager comes in or an interim manager, whatever they want to call him.
• 40:32
  An interim manager comes in, he's everyone's mate.
• 40:35
  And then he stops being everyone's mate and now he's everyone's boss.
• 40:40
  And that's what the story that I hear from players all the time on various, like I said before, stories, podcasts, books, whatever.
• 40:46
  When they become the boss, things change.
• 40:50
  Because he's no longer kind of asking or pleading with people.
• 40:53
  He's telling and demanding.
• 40:55
  And that might be a little bit different.
• 40:58
  The problem with that place, mate, is...
• 41:01
  anyone who was taking that job after Sir Alex Ferguson it was a poison chalice and then ultimately the egos in that dressing room and the egos at that club are out of control and they have been for I would say decades now not a decade I'm saying decades the egos are out of control egos are rolling dressing rooms
• 41:21
  And it's just, you can't be having it.
• 41:24
  You can't be having it.
• 41:25
  I will say there probably are a few players that act better than they are, maybe.
• 41:29
  But I think the thing with Man United at the minute, why we all thought they were going to be better, Bruno Fernandes played outstanding last season with regards to assists and goals and contributions and raising the team's standards and making the team look great.
• 41:44
  It just shows he's had an off start to the season.
• 41:48
  I know because my Fantasy League points haven't been as good as I needed off him.
• 41:51
  And again, I'm thinking about getting rid of him.
• 41:54
  But if he's not performing, then Manchester United don't seem to have other components that are stepping up.
• 42:01
  And that is basically...
• 42:02
  Didn't look at it like that.
• 42:03
  Yeah, because I'm watching the game with my son and my dad last night and he was like, why aren't they bringing Bruno Fernandes off?
• 42:09
  He's playing rubbish again.
• 42:11
  Can't take him off.
• 42:11
  And I was like, because Carrick won't bring him off because he's the only one that ever does anything.
• 42:15
  It doesn't matter how bad he's playing.
• 42:17
  You bring him off, you're not.
• 42:18
  And he brought him off right at the very end when they had 10 men.
• 42:20
  But yes, he is the captain as well.
• 42:22
  But you think, when was the last time anyone really had a run of scoring or creating goals that wasn't Bruno Fernandes?
• 42:29
  When did anyone say...
• 42:31
  have five goal contributions on the run in the United team.
• 42:36
  That may have happened, but if Bruno takes all the bloodets and if he's not doing it, then it turns out they're not as good as everyone thought they'd be.
• 42:44
  It's such a sad case to not see Marcus Rashford shining.
• 42:49
  I think he's a brilliant player.
• 42:51
  I think he's a proper precocious talent.
• 42:54
  I think he's brilliant.
• 42:55
  I think he's got the lot, that lad.
• 42:58
  and it's just so sad to not see him fulfilling his potential.
• 43:03
  I just think it's a criminal.
• 43:05
  It's a crime.
• 43:06
  I mean, I look at the money they've spent.
• 43:10
  They bought Jadon Sancho for absolute fortunes.
• 43:14
  And he can't even get a contract, that lad.
• 43:17
  What's going on there?
• 43:18
  Okay, but look, on the one hand, you've just said that the place is full of egos and attitudes and characters.
• 43:23
  And then on the same time, you've said you can't understand why Rashford and Sancho aren't performing the way they are.
• 43:29
  I think you answered the second one with the first one.
• 43:34
  I think the issues are themselves that's Sancho's it's missed like the lad can't get a contract I wish I had I wish I had the quality that they had I'll tell you that how much did he get both of them was it about 90 million something like that no idea but something stupid Sancho got both of them yeah it was silly money and now he can't get a contract at any club like that doesn't make sense
• 43:58
  Like, that's just... By potential at one point, don't you?
• 44:01
  You buy potential, and then when you stop even getting close to looking like you're delivering on potential, then people start realising that...
• 44:08
  I know, but he was at Dortmund flying.
• 44:10
  Empty, yeah.
• 44:11
  He was flying at Dortmund.
• 44:13
  He was running stuff, and he was brilliant, and, you know, he was looking good for England at times, and you're just like, where is he gone?
• 44:20
  Like, what's that?
• 44:21
  I know everyone says, oh, it's too much money too soon, it's ruined, and it's done this.
• 44:28
  Ultimately,
• 44:30
  The kid's really good at playing football.
• 44:32
  He can't have turned bad at playing football.
• 44:34
  That just can't happen.
• 44:36
  You can't just get bad at playing.
• 44:37
  You can't just go from being brilliant to something to being bad at something.
• 44:40
  That doesn't exist.
• 44:41
  That doesn't happen.
• 44:42
  Because you can't undo the amount of work he's put in.
• 44:44
  Like, he's spent.
• 44:46
  He's done the $10,000.
• 44:47
  Everyone knows the routine, the $10,000 to get to where you want to get to and that.
• 44:52
  That boy's done the $10,000.
• 44:53
  You can't undo them.
• 44:54
  So he's got it.
• 44:56
  How has no one come to him and gone?
• 44:59
  One of a few things, right?
• 45:01
  Either he went through a really sort of lucky spell and he was playing well better than he's capable of.
• 45:09
  I'm just saying there's one of a few things.
• 45:11
  He either went through a spell while everyone was looking at him and it was well better than he actually was and now he's plateaued at his actual level and now everyone's come down.
• 45:20
  Or he was at that level and he's just not prepared to work as hard to stay at that level.
• 45:27
  Because once you get to that level, you find things easy and you think you're a superstar and you stop working at the same level that got you there, which you need to work at.
• 45:35
  As you know, Tone, as a boxer, you work at a certain level to get somewhere.
• 45:41
  And then once you get somewhere, you have to actually work that hard to stay still
• 45:47
  And you have to work even harder at that point to get better.
• 45:51
  Whereas some people get to that level, think it's going well and then don't try so hard.
• 45:56
  So there's that, or there's the other thing, which if you're going to talk about egos and I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but there are people that get to a certain level, think they're a lot better than they are and think they don't have to work and, and, and, and then actually feel it's.
• 46:10
  they shouldn't have to work as hard because they're superstars and why do I have to work so hard?
• 46:13
  Because I'm already a superstar and I can swan round and they're the most annoying ones.
• 46:18
  They're the most annoying ones.
• 46:19
  I can't get me here.
• 46:20
  Just that Jadon Sancho.
• 46:22
  The Rashford one, okay, I get a little bit but he's a brilliant, fantastic player.
• 46:26
  I just want to see him do well but the Jadon Sancho one.
• 46:29
  that I'm puzzled I'm really lost with that one like he can't get a club like I can't understand why someone hasn't gone I'll have him like why haven't Dortmund come back Would you have him at Everton?
• 46:42
  I wouldn't go near him.
• 46:43
  There you go.
• 46:45
  Already, you're talking about how good he is and I've asked him would you have him more after the US.
• 46:49
  In the US.
• 46:50
  But it happens more often than you think now.
• 46:53
  Dele Alli is another... Not for that much later, Liam.
• 46:55
  And all your Dele's injuries and what he's released and what's happened to him and...
• 47:00
  And you realise that there's a story behind Dele.
• 47:03
  Like, Jadon Sancho was flying, mate.
• 47:06
  They might have stories as well, though, mightn't they?
• 47:08
  But it's happening more regularly now than what it... Well, maybe they're just the stories are more present.
• 47:14
  Yeah, mental health is more on the scene.
• 47:16
  How has someone not just sat him down, no one gone, listen here, lad, you're put on this planet to play football.
• 47:23
  I've watched you play.
• 47:24
  You've got the lot.
• 47:26
  Let's do whatever it takes to get your head right.
• 47:29
  Whoever gets him could potentially have a £50 million, £60 million player for free.
• 47:35
  What I will say is who's been one of the best at finding players that are sort of plateaued and making them stars again?
• 47:46
  Unai Emery.
• 47:47
  And Unai Emery's had a go at him and couldn't get anything out of him.
• 47:51
  He's very good at that.
• 47:52
  There comes a point.
• 47:53
  Oh, by the way, have you got us so off topic that we've been talking about that for the last...
• 47:57
  we didn't even talk we didn't even talk about Brennan Johnson's disallowed goal I did want to ask should that have been disallowed us
• 48:07
  I don't know.
• 48:09
  I know the laws.
• 48:10
  I don't understand why I was.
• 48:12
  I can't get my head around it.
• 48:12
  So if we go old school, and I don't mean even old school, previous old school, go back a long time ago, offside's offside.
• 48:22
  And then you start talking about subjective and you start talking about this.
• 48:25
  But he is offside.
• 48:26
  He's offside.
• 48:27
  when the ball goes forward.
• 48:29
  And by the way, everybody hid or forgot the fact that Harrison Armstrong should have just scored that himself.
• 48:36
  He's kicked it straight at the guy on the line who can't use his feet.
• 48:39
  He can't use his hands.
• 48:40
  He hits it straight at the lad who couldn't do anything.
• 48:42
  He hits it a yard either side.
• 48:44
  It's a goal.
• 48:45
  He had the whole goal to aim for.
• 48:47
  But anyway, Harrison misses, hits the guy.
• 48:50
  And in that moment, Brennan Johnson's offside.
• 48:52
  So then as it comes back, you then think, now he's active in play.
• 48:56
  He's offside.
• 48:56
  Yeah.
• 48:57
  But how many times have we seen that if a defender goes to actually physically clear the ball, it makes everyone else now onside?
• 49:07
  And the left back went to clear it and kick it out.
• 49:09
  And Brennan Johnson blocked it.
• 49:12
  And it was a clear action to kick the ball.
• 49:14
  So, yeah, I was unsure how I felt about that one.
• 49:18
  I'm genuinely still lost with him.
• 49:20
  At first meet I thought, no, it is offside.
• 49:22
  We can't argue about it.
• 49:23
  It's offside.
• 49:24
  But I bet we see something similar in the rest of the season where you go, hang on.
• 49:27
  I was similar to Arsenal.
• 49:29
  Isn't it crazy that we've got subjective offsides in the game now?
• 49:33
  Would that frustrate you as a player, Ozzy?
• 49:35
  If that was the rule.
• 49:37
  No, we had subjective offsides when I played in terms of a man ran offside and now he's walking back and now another lad runs through.
• 49:46
  It was a different kind of subjective, but way ago, like the 60s, 70s, if anyone was offside in any part of the attack, it was stopped.
• 49:55
  We then got to the point where if a guy ran down the right and he's way out of it, he's not interfering with play.
• 50:00
  That's where subjective starts to come in.
• 50:03
  And then it creeps in and becomes bigger and bigger.
• 50:05
  So I've experienced a bit of it.
• 50:07
  It is part of the game.
• 50:09
  You want it because it brings more goals.
• 50:12
  And it's for players, for people that aren't interfering.
• 50:16
  When you have a striker goal and...
• 50:19
  a player is in an offside position, but he's not quite in the line of the keeper.
• 50:22
  We don't want to disallow those goals.
• 50:25
  So it's all different varying degrees of subjective offsides, but they are all offside.
• 50:32
  But on that one, if it had stood, I could have made an argument for the standing, is kind of what I'm saying.
• 50:40
  But I'm not surprised that it didn't, if you know what I mean.
• 50:45
  But it was a messy one.
• 50:46
  Doesn't matter.
• 50:47
  It's everything, so you're not getting it.
• 50:52
  the other one question I wanted to ask you about that game was obviously Jake O'Brien didn't start and Michael Keane was put in a few conversations around him off the back of the match would you be frustrated if you were Jake O'Brien not getting a look in in that starting 11 at this point
• 51:12
  Yes, because you're young and you're an international and you probably feel, every player feels they should be playing at all times.
• 51:26
  And especially, his argument to me should be that I played out of position for you and for the team last season.
• 51:33
  Now I need to, when the chances come, I need a chance in the middle.
• 51:36
  But then Michael Keane will say, I was outstanding at centre-half last season.
• 51:41
  And now I'm not even playing because Jake and Taki have cemented their positions.
• 51:46
  So if anyone's going to be first in the team, surely it's me.
• 51:49
  I was brilliant in that position.
• 51:51
  So it's, well, if we're going to use the term, it's subjective for Moisey.
• 51:56
  Whoever he wants to pick, he gets to choose in that moment.
• 52:01
  It's no surprise that we finished with all four of them on the pitch, though.
• 52:06
  Because of the way the game went, because Maitland now has made that mistake.
• 52:10
  I was not surprised to see him get hooked.
• 52:13
  Yeah.
• 52:14
  And our bench looked okay.
• 52:16
  I know we didn't have a, you know, that striker and Alcaraz came on up front, but, you know, not quite gone, but, you know, the days when you're looking to your bench and you're thinking, who have we got?
• 52:26
  Suddenly we're bringing Hackney on in the middle.
• 52:29
  We're bringing Diblin on on one side, Tariq George on on the other.
• 52:32
  We're bringing, we've got Alcaraz who, he's like a one in three player.
• 52:37
  He can be great for a week and then he'll have a couple of down weeks.
• 52:40
  We've got centre-halves to bring on.
• 52:42
  Yeah, so,
• 52:44
  If we get to January, I'm all expecting us to sign players.
• 52:48
  If we get to January, then there is an opportunity for us to actually bulk the squad up in the strike, I think.
• 52:56
  But who are we going to be owned by in January?
• 53:00
  There's a question for you, Tony.
• 53:01
  Oh, wow.
• 53:03
  I mean, I was really optimistic with the Freetland group and I'm not going to lie, I still am.
• 53:10
  I still think they'll,
• 53:13
  I think they'll give us a go.
• 53:14
  I just... Do you know what?
• 53:17
  I just think it's tough for them.
• 53:18
  I'm not sure they quite knew the full...
• 53:23
  The full...
• 53:24
  It's quite clear they didn't know the full story when they took us on.
• 53:27
  And they haven't realised the mess that's been caused over the last decade.
• 53:31
  And that's what it's done.
• 53:32
  That's what it is.
• 53:32
  The last decade has been an absolute... Don't swear, don't swear.
• 53:37
  It has been an absolute mess.
• 53:41
  An absolute joke.
• 53:43
  You can't run a football club where we've been around for the last 10 years.
• 53:47
  It's not good.
• 53:47
  I thought you'd thought, and I'd thought, that they'd come in...
• 53:51
  Um, paid off the debts, sorted the stadium out, got the club in a great position and it was going to be all systems go out.
• 53:59
  I'm not exactly sure what's happened to change.
• 54:01
  I mean, one of my mates put on the, um, put on, on our little, one of our WhatsApp groups about with a, with a bunch of Ebertonians.
• 54:09
  Oh my God, called Dion Dublin and Holmes and the hammer.
• 54:12
  They bloody flipped us.
• 54:13
  They're trying to bloody flip us.
• 54:16
  Do you know if they do?
• 54:18
  I'm laughing myself at that one.
• 54:19
  I just don't know what's happening.
• 54:23
  I'd like them to let me know.
• 54:25
  If they are flipping us right, I am so grateful to them.
• 54:29
  They've got the value of the club commercial.
• 54:32
  If they are flipping us or whatever it is, I'm so grateful to them for the simple reason of it was them or 777.
• 54:41
  And if that 777 would have got all of us, mate, have you seen what's happened to that company recently?
• 54:47
  It's all over the place.
• 54:48
  There's all kinds of fellas doing all kinds of mad things, people on charges, all kinds of stuff.
• 54:54
  Everton Football Club could have been no more if we'd have fell into their hands and make no mistakes you know who wants to sell us to them who try to sell us to them so you know be very very careful what you wish for these are a solid consortium they know football they've owned other football clubs that are very good business I get they're not in the game to lose money and they probably looked at it and thought now
• 55:21
  We thought we'd be able to sell off a few assets, get a few different ones in, save a bit of money, make a bit of money even.
• 55:28
  But I think they've realised now with a fan base like ours and as loud and as passionate as ours that it's not really going to go that way.
• 55:38
  You're not going to be selling some of our assets.
• 55:40
  You're not going to be selling some of our... Because we just don't want that and it can't happen.
• 55:45
  I think they've just realised.
• 55:47
  I'm very grateful.
• 55:49
  I can't, oh, excuse me, I can't, I can't say I'm not because if we'd have fell into the wrong hands, lads, I think Everton Football Club could have been gone for good and that, I can't, that just cannot happen.
• 56:00
  Oh, yeah, I mean, I was, you know, joking around with regards to the, the flipping up here before.
• 56:07
  Of course, but there's nothing wrong with it.
• 56:09
  If they do, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 56:12
  There was a thought that this was going to be long-term, and then it came up, there was rumours that it was going to be a small portion, and then now it's a controlling portion, so they still want to remain a part of.
• 56:25
  Again, I'm unsure, but I will say that to you, Tone, that we could have been in a lot worse hands for this period, or we could have been in no hands.
• 56:39
  Yeah.
• 56:40
  So, yeah, it's... Yeah, I mean, you don't want them to actually take any profit.
• 56:47
  The club might be able to take future and to make a bit of business out of it all like myself.
• 56:51
  But...
• 56:52
  you've got no problem.
• 56:53
  Businessmen are businessmen and businessmen see opportunity and, you know, as long as they don't, as long as the club has still got something worth being, you know, carrying on then.
• 57:06
  Yeah.
• 57:06
  I think either way we're fine.
• 57:08
  I don't say you take your hat off to them, but you say, well...
• 57:11
  Okay, no problem.
• 57:12
  We would have liked more commitment, but if they can't do it for business purposes, then I think we are a club that people would see as an opportunity to buy into.
• 57:20
  We've got the stadium now.
• 57:22
  The team is looking a lot more stable.
• 57:25
  We are a massive sleeping giant.
• 57:27
  Yes.
• 57:27
  Someone can bring us a little bit of success again and someone could help us get over the line.
• 57:33
  Maybe it's this.
• 57:34
  Maybe it's this season.
• 57:35
  I don't know with regards to silverware.
• 57:36
  Could you imagine?
• 57:37
  Start the train...
• 57:38
  start the train of us, you know, picking up silverware.
• 57:41
  This, just, we all know the reach this football club has got around the world at the minute without having had any success for 30 odd years and, you know, having success before that.
• 57:56
  Imagine the new fans that we could get.
• 57:59
  They're generationally ready to go.
• 58:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 58:02
  we're a sleeping giant we could get our revenue through the roof in no time could you imagine everton bringing and winning the selfie david moyes winning the selfie and
• 58:12
  And them holding a trophy at Hill Dickens.
• 58:14
  It'd just be... You think you've seen something with the other side doing parades and stuff like that.
• 58:20
  The whole city would just be blue.
• 58:24
  And I'm not joking.
• 58:26
  Like, everything would just be blue.
• 58:29
  It would be the craziest parade.
• 58:31
  And I'm not talking about European Cups.
• 58:33
  I'm talking any cup.
• 58:36
  Any cup, you bring us the league, any cup, and I'm telling you now, this city will see a party like it's never seen before.
• 58:46
  Because there's people who've been starved for 30 years, mate.
• 58:50
  30, well, 31 years to be exact.
• 58:55
  So, you know, but... Well, we're still in the league cup, cup of the year.
• 59:01
  We've got to win at some point, haven't we?
• 59:02
  We've never won it before, so we need to do it at one time at least.
• 59:06
  Why not?
• 59:07
  Wouldn't that be a nice way to leave, a nice way to exit?
• 59:14
  Part and gift.
• 59:16
  Helping with the transition.
• 59:18
  I'm grateful to them.
• 59:20
  Clearing the debts and leaving us, having lifted the trophy.
• 59:25
  I'm sure they'd like it.
• 59:26
  Anyone business like it.
• 59:28
  It would add value.
• 59:29
  You've got to understand that these are businessmen.
• 59:32
  These are businessmen and no businessman goes into business to lose money.
• 59:37
  What we've got to take on board and understand is these guys aren't Evertonians.
• 59:41
  These guys aren't Scousers.
• 59:42
  These guys don't absolutely love and adore Everton Football Club.
• 59:46
  They've seen an opportunity here.
• 59:48
  and they've took it with both hands.
• 59:50
  And like I said before, I'm just happy a consortium and a business as reliable as theirs took us.
• 59:58
  Because had we have fallen into the wrong hands, like I said before, guys, there would be no more Everton Football Club.
• 1:00:06
  They won't want to leave badly.
• 1:00:08
  Very quickly, got Chelsea coming up on the weekend.
• 1:00:11
  Half 12 kick-off.
• 1:00:13
  Big game.
• 1:00:14
  Big game.
• 1:00:15
  Chelsea obviously won 5-1 against Bournemouth, just gone.
• 1:00:19
  What are we thinking?
• 1:00:21
  Do you think we're looking for a draw?
• 1:00:24
  Are we looking for three points?
• 1:00:25
  Is that home?
• 1:00:26
  I'll go see Yossi first.
• 1:00:31
  I'm looking for three points.
• 1:00:32
  Yes.
• 1:00:33
  I think a draw would be okay, but I wouldn't say it'd be a good...
• 1:00:39
  I mean, I always say it always depends how the game goes.
• 1:00:42
  It depends how people play, tactically, how you set up.
• 1:00:44
  You always know at the end of the game whether it's a good point or a bad point or a winner, but going before the game, it'd be an okay draw.
• 1:00:52
  But I think it could be a stellar win.
• 1:00:55
  It could be a season, you know, kick us right back off again, beating one of the bigger teams.
• 1:01:01
  And we're reasonably good defensively.
• 1:01:03
  Their strength is at the top end of the pitch.
• 1:01:05
  We're decent defensively.
• 1:01:07
  And they are...
• 1:01:12
  Not weak.
• 1:01:13
  I mean, Jordan Henderson's come into the middle of the pitch with Kaiseido to try and... Oh, I did him again.
• 1:01:18
  To try and... To be fair, it's only the most stiff you gave him.
• 1:01:22
  Jordan Henderson's just had the best week of his career, Tom, because you said he was rubbish.
• 1:01:27
  He scored two and got assists.
• 1:01:28
  He's had all whoopied do.
• 1:01:30
  He's had a couple of good minutes on the pitch.
• 1:01:33
  You jinxed us.
• 1:01:34
  But what I'm saying is, they've had to bring Jordan Henderson in.
• 1:01:38
  Jordan Henderson alongside Caicedo to help them stop conceding goals because they're conceding that many.
• 1:01:45
  Conceding goals are fun.
• 1:01:47
  He's 105.
• 1:01:47
  He's 105.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah, like, oh my God.
• 1:01:56
  You've got to give it to him.
• 1:01:57
  He scored two good goals on the weekend.
• 1:01:59
  Oh, he's only played about 500 in a game, Premier League games, and he scored two good goals in one game.
• 1:02:04
  Ooh!
• 1:02:07
  I'll play 500 Premier League games.
• 1:02:08
  I think it was his first ever Premier League free kick he scored.
• 1:02:12
  Oh, my.
• 1:02:13
  Was he?
• 1:02:14
  Oh, my Lord.
• 1:02:15
  Oh, my Lord.
• 1:02:16
  Sweet baby cheese and the orphans.
• 1:02:19
  And the orphans.
• 1:02:20
  Oh, let's put him on for the Ballon d'Or.
• 1:02:23
  Let's put him on for the Ballon d'Or.
• 1:02:26
  Scored two goals.
• 1:02:27
  But you can generally get out Chelsea, was my point to start it all anyway.
• 1:02:31
  I expect to get out of him.
• 1:02:33
  He's 105 and can't move really well.
• 1:02:34
  And he's got one arm.
• 1:02:36
  I'm talking about Chelsea in general.
• 1:02:38
  They brought him in to try and help them defend better.
• 1:02:40
  They brought him in because he's a coach.
• 1:02:43
  That's what he is now.
• 1:02:44
  He's a coach.
• 1:02:45
  And that's why he went to the World Cup, because he's a coach.
• 1:02:48
  He's no longer a footballer.
• 1:02:49
  He's a coach.
• 1:02:51
  Warn me up, them copites.
• 1:02:53
  He's not even a copite anymore.
• 1:02:54
  That's what annoys me the most.
• 1:02:56
  Did you see?
• 1:02:57
  It shows you the loyalty he has, doesn't it?
• 1:02:59
  He's gone to the rivals of them, kissing.
• 1:03:01
  Do you know what he was doing with the badge?
• 1:03:02
  Oh, my Lord.
• 1:03:03
  I was just about to say, I'm pretty sure I saw him kissing the Chelsea badge as well.
• 1:03:07
  Oh, you're getting over the badge with all this.
• 1:03:08
  Go on.
• 1:03:09
  Warn me up.
• 1:03:10
  Oh, my Lord.
• 1:03:12
  Oh, I love all that, don't you?
• 1:03:15
  These people.
• 1:03:16
  I mean, you know what?
• 1:03:17
  You've got a Chelsea... Captain of Liverpool Football Club.
• 1:03:19
  Is he captain of Chelsea yet?
• 1:03:22
  not yet Reece James was captain but he's not played that'll be in testimony trying to win at Anfield they'll cheer him but we got at Chelsea last year and we won three it was a great result yeah it was a good game and I know they've got I know they've got Rodgers and I know they made another couple of signings now and you know there'll be a threat going forward but they've had very mixed results
• 1:03:45
  And if we can make it intense like we did last year, if we can make them a little bit weary and we can get, we can play at pace and get at them, we could definitely win this game.
• 1:03:55
  And I...
• 1:03:56
  I'm not expecting us to, but I'm going there with hope that we will.
• 1:04:01
  All about the first goal for me.
• 1:04:03
  All about the first goal.
• 1:04:05
  We scored first, I think we win.
• 1:04:07
  We concede first.
• 1:04:09
  I don't like it.
• 1:04:10
  I think there'll be chances both ends.
• 1:04:12
  If they score first, they're going for the throat.
• 1:04:14
  And they've got players who can really get it in here.
• 1:04:16
  You meet that Cole Palmer and Morgan Rodgers.
• 1:04:20
  They're good on the counter-attack.
• 1:04:22
  They're very good on the counter-attacks.
• 1:04:23
  That's why the first goal is important, like you said, Tone.
• 1:04:27
  very important just give me points again yeah I'm saying you know your football that's why that's why we're here I'm trying I'm trying how do you think we're going to get on go on Tony I'll take a draw now mate I'm not going to lie to anyone we've changed don't we from last week yeah I have mate I'll take a draw right now I'll take it happily I think we're going to beat them I genuinely do
• 1:04:50
  I think sometimes when teams like a Chelsea stat chick come to Earl Dickinson, Everton raise the game.
• 1:04:57
  I hope so.
• 1:04:58
  I could genuinely see like a 2-1, 3-1.
• 1:05:02
  I'm going 3-1 through us.
• 1:05:06
  I would feel a lot better, weirdly.
• 1:05:09
  if this was a 5.30 kickoff, not because I don't, not because I prefer 5.30 kickoffs, but we're now getting, we're still, we're now getting to that point where it's starting to get darker.
• 1:05:19
  And I always think it's more intense when you play under the light.
• 1:05:22
  Is it us?
• 1:05:23
  Yeah, I always find it, yeah.
• 1:05:25
  I always find it a little bit more enclosing.
• 1:05:28
  Things seem a little bit closer.
• 1:05:31
  Um,
• 1:05:32
  I think when you play a little bit earlier, it's, it's dead bright.
• 1:05:35
  Everything seems, I always felt like the pitch was five yards bigger in the daylight.
• 1:05:40
  And I always felt it was a little bit five yards smaller.
• 1:05:42
  Now that is obviously just perception because the pitch, because the pitch doesn't change size.
• 1:05:48
  Um,
• 1:05:50
  But that's the way it's sort of felt.
• 1:05:53
  And if that's the way it feels, then that's sort of the way your mind plays it.
• 1:05:57
  So, yeah, I would rather they came feeling the pitch was a bit smaller.
• 1:06:00
  We're more intimidating.
• 1:06:01
  We can get closer to them.
• 1:06:04
  but I do still think we'll make a good game.
• 1:06:06
  Hopefully we'll make it intense.
• 1:06:07
  As I say, what we need is, and we need every single week, three of our players to have really top games, especially in one of these moments.
• 1:06:17
  We'd relied on Dewsbury Hall for a long time.
• 1:06:18
  He had a little bit of a dip, came back second half, a couple of goals.
• 1:06:22
  Grealish needs to step up now and show us why he's back, that kind of thing.
• 1:06:26
  We need a performance from him.
• 1:06:29
  Brennan Johnson, if he plays, which I think he will
• 1:06:34
  we definitely need a performance from him.
• 1:06:35
  He's not really shown us enough yet.
• 1:06:39
  So, yeah, I think if we get a couple of those performing at top level, I think we win.