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The Morality of Representation · Think Twice Show

0:00
They will add something positive to the team.
0:02
They will. Not add nothing.
0:04
They will not add nothing. They should not call them.
0:06
It's not fair. Representation sounds simple,
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but it never is because most of us aren't just one thing.
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We aren't just one identity or one flag.
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Most of us are connected to multiple countries and cultures,
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yet the world keeps asking us to pick just one.
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So what is your country? Is it where you were born?
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Where you grew up? Where your parents are from?
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Or is it just wherever feels like home?
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And if home can change, can your allegiance change with it?
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It can all get quite messy, complicated, and personal.
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Yet for some, this all plays out in public with a bunch of people
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giving their two pens. Maybe representation gives us
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shared identity and belonging, or maybe it divides us.
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Either way, it matters because it's the basis for a lot of
0:57
decisions. Who plays for you, who leads
1:01
you? And most importantly, who are
1:04
you? Welcome to your favourite show.
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Favourite show? This is Think Twice.
1:24
My name is Benz. My name is Santa.
1:26
And today we're talking about representation and it's a net
1:29
positive or not. So Tev the British royal family
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and then positive or not? Is a net negative for me, I
1:37
can't lie. That's not surprising.
1:39
That doesn't surprise anyone. I, I just think that the, the
1:42
royal family who have built their wealth, their importance
1:48
on imperialism and colonialism should no longer be politically
1:52
or socially significant in, in, in British life.
1:56
And I think yes, they might not be politically important right
1:59
now, but I think they hold a lot of soft power in the eyes and
2:03
the hearts of British people. And I think for that reason they
2:07
are a net negative and I'll argue that they should be
2:11
abolished. What do you think?
2:14
What's it like? I'll start this off with I love
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the crown, isn't it? Sure.
2:18
I love the show, the crown that so it hurts me a little bit that
2:21
I probably enjoyed that. So I tried to I tried to find
2:23
why it could be a net positive. Obviously for me it's not right.
2:27
It's not so much as a net negative.
2:28
It's not a net positive. That's I'll be clear with that.
2:30
OK. That's an important framing.
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So I like looked at what they're beneficial for tourism, some
2:37
sort of like national identity, soft power, even though you said
2:40
it's like a bad thing, it has benefits, right?
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And they do some charitable work and I guess it's like tourist
2:47
friendly. So when when I thought about all
2:49
of these things, I thought, OK, like that's what they do.
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And they they bring in more money than they cost to run.
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Like critics even admit that that's generally the stance on
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the royal family. OK.
3:00
So it's like, OK, so why is it and that negative when they say
3:05
they bring in more revenue than they cost, that doesn't factor
3:09
in the amount of things they own and they own a lot. 15 billion
3:15
worth of assets. Honestly, we're supposed to live
3:18
in a modern democracy, but it's sort of like a feudalistic
3:21
democracy, which is like an oxymoron, A contradiction, but
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that is essentially what we live in as long as they're head of
3:28
state. It's mad.
3:30
When and to point out the the things that you said in regards
3:33
to the colonialism and the way the monarchy came to power, it's
3:38
problematic A. 100%. And so like cannot just can't be
3:42
a net positive as much as like enjoy some stuff from Princess
3:44
Diana from time to time. Like I can't, there's no way it
3:49
could be a net positive. Like it just.
3:50
It just can't be like a. 100% and, and, and I think, I think
3:53
you touched on, on some of the common arguments around the way
3:57
the monarchy might benefit British life.
4:00
And obviously there's, there's the money thing.
4:02
And I think the money thing is almost almost a distraction to
4:05
me. Like whether or not they they
4:07
make money doesn't change the fact that they are hereditary
4:11
monarchy and by virtue of their existence, they are basically
4:15
saying to people in in the UK you are are subjects we.
4:20
Are you're born less than? You're we're better than you.
4:22
You know what? I mean basically what?
4:24
They're saying, yeah. And like you, they're basically
4:25
saying you have to call them your Highness.
4:27
You know what I mean? Highness relative to what?
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They're higher than us do you know what I mean?
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And it's, it's a crazy thing to, to have in 2025 to me.
4:36
But, but also they, I feel like they sit and live in the hearts
4:40
and minds of British people. And when you have a monarchy
4:45
that, whose power has been consolidated worldwide by
4:48
colonialism and, and, and imperialism, it's not like the
4:51
monarchy is coming out and saying, oh, all that slavery
4:54
stuff we did that conquering of land we did.
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That was great. They're not openly saying that,
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but there's an implicit acceptance that that was just
5:03
something that that had to be done in the past.
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And, you know, that's in the past.
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And we're just going to move on without addressing the elephant
5:11
in the room. And that sits for me in the in
5:13
the in the psyche of the British public when it goes unaddressed.
5:17
I agree and their benefits are actually ridiculous as well.
5:22
Like they don't have to pay tax. King Charles, he adopted the the
5:26
estate from Queen Elizabeth, right?
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And he didn't pay any tax. And their income tax is
5:32
voluntary, so no one actually even knows how much they pay.
5:35
And like, I probably went into a hole on how they make their
5:38
money, right? So they've got these Dutchies,
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You know what, basically it's the, it's basically a company
5:42
that's not a company. And they hold the Dutchie of
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Lancaster holds 700 million. The Dutchie of Cornwall holds
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1.2 billion. The, the Dutchie of Cornwall's
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for Prince William and I think the Dutchie of Lancaster's for
5:57
King Charles. So they they all their profits
6:00
go to the Treasury. Yeah.
6:01
So, so all of all of the assets, sorry to cut you off, are like
6:05
land buildings, Yeah, like public spaces, green spaces,
6:09
national parks, like all of this stuff.
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These are the assets that generate the revenue.
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And all their profits go to the Treasury, 25% goes back to the
6:20
the royal family. As their income.
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Well, that's for that's for like it looks after their staff and
6:25
the rest of it. But then, but the Dutchie in
6:27
particular is private wealth for themselves.
6:30
OK. So they get to have that
6:32
themselves and then choose what they want to do with that money.
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So that's why and then they don't get taxed on, they don't
6:40
have to pay corporation tax on the company, nor do they have to
6:43
pay income tax. They're just laughing.
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Like they're laughing to the bank and if a a normal person
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wanted to pass down a house or something to their kids, they're
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paying 40%, literally 40%. And I sat there and I was like,
6:57
well, they never get to own that.
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So like, it's a little bit different because passing down
7:02
Buckingham Palace, they can't go and sell Buckingham Palace for a
7:05
profit. Do you get what I mean?
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Like so it's slightly different. They get to derive the benefit.
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Of it exactly still doesn't. Mean more or less.
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It they still get to benefit. From it, it's madness.
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So. And, and because of things like
7:19
the Crown and because of modern day media, we get to see how
7:25
weird these people are by the institution that they're a part
7:30
of. The institution has caused their
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witness. So there's such weird people
7:36
that the institutions caused their weirdness and now we know
7:39
about it. So like the idea of the
7:42
monarchy, I think at one point was supposed to be some idea of
7:45
escapism like this is how life is supposed to be or this is
7:49
like a fantasy or something that's no longer even true.
7:51
So when I I couldn't find how it could ever be a net positive for
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society, like in any sort of way.
7:59
I, I, I guess we can, we can speculate on that.
8:01
So you, you touched on that fantasy element, right?
8:04
So I guess you're talking about like the people looking up to
8:06
something that is escapism for them.
8:08
I think it it is a compelling story.
8:11
Like the story, it's interesting.
8:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the Crown, like, you know,
8:15
when when you you turn that into a Netflix show, the only reason
8:18
you can turn it to a Netflix show is that it's kind of a
8:20
compelling story. Characters, there's weirdness,
8:23
there's romance, there's heartbreak, there's betrayal.
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There's got all of the makings of a great fictional story.
8:28
And I think in addition, in a society that has turned away
8:33
from religion, the Western modern society is broadly
8:36
atheist. I actually think the royal
8:38
family occupy this quasi religious space in British
8:43
culture where you've basically got a person who's anointed by
8:47
God and has been chosen by God to rule over the people and the
8:51
people see them as almost like the non human.
8:55
Like if you if they're prophets in Yeah.
8:57
You know what I mean? They're literally like prophets
9:00
of God or like, you know, God's representation on earth.
9:04
And I think in the absence of organised religion in in modern
9:08
culture, I think it, and I'm speculating here because I'm not
9:11
in the mind of these people that that vote when you golf comes to
9:15
ask them like, should we abolish the monarchy?
9:17
25% of people say abolish. About 60% of people say no,
9:21
don't abolish. The monarchy's good for the
9:23
United Kingdom. So that's a vast majority of
9:26
people that support the monarchy.
9:27
It's changed in young people though.
9:29
Yeah, in young people, I think under 25, only 30% of people
9:32
think that the monarchy should exist or the monarchy's a good
9:35
thing for the UK, but there's a lot of adults.
9:38
When Queen Elizabeth died, how many people queued up in the
9:41
rain, the cold, like 24 hours just to see the box in which she
9:46
didn't get to see? Like didn't get to see her, no.
9:48
One even know if she was in there respectfully and and
9:51
respectfully and and like I'm I'm watching the news and like
9:58
people are like going in there was the most monumentous moment
10:02
of their life. People talking about how it's
10:04
more important than their kids being born and I'm going to have
10:07
Boski. What's going on here?
10:08
There must be something going on on a deeper level in the minds
10:12
of these people. And I think is is it We've
10:14
always humans have always had a desire to connect to stories and
10:17
things bigger than ourselves. And I think the Queen and the
10:20
monarchy has occupied the space in British culture which makes
10:24
it almost entrenched into social life and entrenched into the
10:28
identity of people themselves. Because there is a there is a
10:32
Englishness about the monarchy that obviously because of it's
10:37
history, it does fill people with some sort of patriotism,
10:40
some pride, some sort of like historical lineage to today.
10:45
Yes. That makes people feel rooted
10:47
and connected to their British. That does have some sort of
10:50
value to some people, I guess. And, and it was funny because
10:54
like when I was thinking at the question, I'm like, I'm just not
10:57
the right person to answer this. Like it, it hasn't ever moved
11:00
me, if you know what I mean. So if it hasn't ever moved me
11:03
in, like in a real sense, like, am I even the right person to
11:07
discuss this? Well, what I, I think you are,
11:09
because obviously the reason, part of the reason why it's
11:11
never moved you is because of #1 your heritage, right?
11:15
You're a Nigerian man who understands the the legacy of
11:20
the British involvement in Nigeria, and that's number one.
11:24
You also understand how the royal family's image is
11:29
inherently white, right? And there's a level of white
11:33
supremacy in the way the crown has acted in the past and
11:37
continues to act today that it would exclude Someone Like You,
11:40
right? And I think that illuminates
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part of why it's a net negative, because if is exclusion, like if
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it excludes black people or coloured people with any melon
11:51
in their skin, then because. The head of state isn't
11:54
representative like it's it's supposed to be representative of
11:57
the nation, but it literally is not like.
11:59
Right, right when when Meghan Markle like, marries into the
12:02
royal family or marries Harry, the entire country goes into a
12:05
fucking meltdown. Do you know what I mean?
12:08
It's because the monarchy is a symbol of white supremacy and
12:11
white purity that white people themselves see in the royal
12:15
family. So, and obviously Meghan Markle
12:18
was just an example that illuminates the fact that it's
12:22
actually reinforcing white supremacy in the minds of white
12:24
people in this country, which is an ongoing like harmful
12:28
situation to me. Do you think there's a way that
12:31
monarchy could be a net positive?
12:32
I was. I was sitting there when I was
12:34
looking at this question. I was just toying around with
12:36
the idea. But imagine if they like,
12:37
because they have a lot of soft power.
12:39
Yeah. If you use that soft power to
12:41
reduce inequality, for example, they are beneficiaries of
12:45
inequality, but one, yeah. Yeah, their little existence.
12:49
Yeah, it's like but if, if the monarchy.
12:54
Like this? Happened in a way.
12:56
Yeah, there's a bit of propaganda, like they, they,
12:58
they every so often the king, I think King Charles would be
13:01
like, oh, like I'm on a I've, I've just launched this green
13:05
initiative and like, I'm trying to get the Prime Minister to do
13:08
this thing. I don't even mean in in in a
13:11
sort of policy sense. I mean, the way you see the
13:15
monarchy is completely. Change, change.
13:17
Where their goal isn't any more, the state visits, isn't what
13:22
they represent historically. Their whole mission is to
13:25
improve the lives of average Britons.
13:29
And if, if, if that was the case, I don't know man, maybe it
13:32
would be in that positive then. Well at that point I would argue
13:35
it's no longer a monarchy. They're just celebrities who are
13:37
just trying to do good stuff. Right?
13:39
Like because they would have to relinquish their titles the the
13:42
established like ruler subject dynamic because right now we are
13:46
subjects of the British crown and we are born into however we
13:49
like it or not. If if you're saying that they
13:52
would give that up in order to do the work, then they're no
13:56
longer monarchs. But if they don't give it up
13:58
but. Couldn't they do it with their
13:59
title? Is there not a reality in which?
14:02
Wouldn't wouldn't they feel like paternalism, like they're coming
14:04
to help the paupers at the at the, you know, on their knees,
14:08
at their feet, because and then you.
14:09
Painted like that, yeah. But like now, I was painted.
14:13
Was it? But, but honestly, honestly, you
14:15
know that feeling when you're watching a royal walk into a
14:18
room? It's.
14:19
Weird bro, it's. But people are just like stiff.
14:23
They're like frozen because because of difference.
14:26
But that's what I mean. I'm I'm saying we like undo.
14:29
All of that. How can you undo that until you
14:31
get rid of the titles? Are they still being called
14:33
Johannes or what? What are we saying here?
14:35
Ceremonially, maybe. I think at the moment you say
14:39
Your Highness like it's a bit tough, like you can't, I can't.
14:44
You can't have both. Basically.
14:45
You can't have Your Highness end up doing genuine good, like it's
14:49
not. The two are just not because you
14:51
have to break the dynamic in order to do genuine community
14:54
work. Right, But the the the weird
14:56
thing about it to me is like, I feel they are in the best
15:00
position to help people. Do you get what I mean?
15:03
Like they are they're in they have so much inherited in the
15:06
world, so much soft power, so much influence.
15:10
They are probably best placed to be able to help your average
15:14
person if you really deep it. Do you know what I mean?
15:16
Like a lot of people that do make money, they make it from
15:19
businesses that from whatever reason they, they have to toe
15:23
the line. They have investors or you are
15:26
an elected official, which means that you have a party dynamic.
15:30
You have to and here to whilst like you have a royal family,
15:34
which is small, it's, it's not a lot of people.
15:36
So decision making's significantly easier.
15:39
If there were like a group in the world that were able to help
15:42
your average Britain, it would be then.
15:44
Yeah, yeah. But I think I think the moment
15:49
you overdo that and you genuinely start doing good, I
15:52
think it kind of breaks the spell of the royal family.
15:55
And I think this actually the the spell of the royal family is
15:58
already breaking amongst young people.
16:00
What I mean? But people think they're weird
16:02
bro. But surely at some point it's
16:04
like you can't. I just don't think the royal
16:06
family can reform, reform, reform and just get to a place
16:09
of good. I think they have to just, the
16:11
whole thing has to go. It's no longer a royal family.
16:14
They're just celebrities. They're celebrities and we call
16:16
them as like ex Royals. If I would, I would like be fine
16:19
with that. We call this someone an ex
16:21
royal. Fine, cool.
16:23
At that point, like the dynamics broken, they're no longer people
16:26
that are better than us. Do you know what I mean?
16:27
Or you're trying to tell me that they're better than me and then
16:30
they could do good because I kind of like your full
16:32
experiment because I'm like, OK, we're saying that negative.
16:35
How much do we need to change to get them to a net positive?
16:38
And, and I do think the infrastructure is there for it.
16:41
Yeah. That's that's that's that's why
16:43
I think it's actually possible like and I think because what
16:47
they're. Actually doing for all.
16:48
They're just doing state visits, follow-ups.
16:50
They're just walking, talking. They've got time.
16:53
I don't care what the crowd says they've got.
16:54
Time. They've got time.
16:55
They've got time to change people's lives. 100%.
16:58
All right, cool. What is the next segment?
17:01
Cool. Obviously today is about
17:05
representation and we're talking about allegiances, about your
17:11
community, about the team that you stick with.
17:14
Some people decide dual nationality, decide to play for
17:18
the country they grew up in or the country their parents were
17:21
born in or, and we're trying to find out if that's good or not.
17:24
There's multiple examples within sports and we're asking is it a
17:28
net positive or not to switch allegiance.
17:30
I think it's a net positive. I think people who have this
17:34
dual nationality situation, I think it's always a good thing
17:38
for them to be able to feel like they've got the option to
17:43
determine which nation most fits their current situation.
17:47
And I think especially in the, as part of the diaspora, you
17:51
know, we sit in a complex position between the home nation
17:55
and, you know, the what, what should we call it?
17:58
The surrogate nation? Yeah, and being being able to
18:02
manoeuvre between the two national identities I think is
18:05
always a good thing. And as the aspirants, we have to
18:07
figure out where we sit between the two.
18:10
So people move, I think it's the net positive to start off with,
18:16
but I think people move for like one of three reasons, right?
18:18
So identity, opportunity and incentive, right?
18:23
So identity you want to belong and opportunity.
18:26
They they want to play. They they may not have the space
18:31
potentially Hudson, the door, Andy and Ketia, they don't have
18:33
the space there and now they wanna go play elsewhere.
18:36
They have an opportunity to perform and the other ones like
18:39
incentive. So you're able to make more
18:41
money essentially. Like there's someone called Ruth
18:44
Jebet, she ran for Kenya, she moved to Bahrain for like major
18:49
financial support. So those are like 3 reasons,
18:53
which I think are very reasonable reasons as to whether
18:56
the individual wants to move nation or compete for a
18:59
different nation or perform for a different nation.
19:02
But the question really comes with, if everyone chose to do
19:05
that and thought of themselves first, what would we really have
19:09
as a society? What would we really have?
19:12
Not even just competing. If you, if you take allegiances
19:15
in terms of it's, it already happens in the business world,
19:18
right. And obviously when you're
19:20
representing a country, you're representing a nation, there has
19:24
to be more to it than how much you get paid.
19:26
There has to be more to it than yeah.
19:28
More about like national duty and like your responsibility to
19:31
that country that you're. Representing to that country
19:33
what that country might have done for you and like the
19:36
memories you've created in that country, how you enjoy the
19:39
culture of that country and how you've learnt your values from
19:42
that country. Surely that has to matter more.
19:44
So it's a little bit of a slippery slope argument, like if
19:48
everyone did it, would that be OK?
19:49
So when I say it's a net positive, I'm, I'm sort of
19:52
conflicted that not everybody can actually do that.
19:55
What do you think about that? Yeah.
19:56
Yeah, 100%. I think, I think you're touching
19:57
on something that's interesting. Obviously, I mentioned us as
20:02
being the aspirants. We are in a sense in between two
20:05
nations, right? We're here in the UK or England,
20:09
but we also have a home nation where.
20:12
Which we connect to, we have our heritage there, our parents are
20:16
from there and our parents have given us a certain essence of
20:19
that culture. And when we go back, we can
20:21
develop our own essence of of the home country's culture.
20:25
So I think for the aspirant, it makes this question of national
20:29
allegiance or who like have a responsibility to a country or
20:34
people. When you represent your own
20:36
nation, it makes it very complicated, right?
20:39
Like for someone like Hatsune Nadoy or Eddie and Katya, yes,
20:44
they in a sense are connected to England, right?
20:47
They grew up here, they learned to play football in this
20:50
country, right? The, the thing that they're
20:51
doing on a professional level, their, their actual lives which
20:54
revolve around football, they learned that literally in this
20:57
country, right? So there's a connection to
20:59
England, but the nation state in a sense, as important as it as
21:04
as it is to feel national identity and national pride,
21:07
whatever you want to call it. It's a bit of a fiction, right?
21:10
Like the fact that we are England and the borders of
21:13
England determine how World Cups are played and Euro competitions
21:18
are played. In a sense, it's a useful
21:20
categorization. But really, someone like Eddie
21:23
and Katya, his responsibility and his allegiance will be tied
21:27
to certain managers or certain clubs, certain communities where
21:31
he grew up, not necessarily the entire nation.
21:35
Yeah, right. So he, I don't think he's
21:37
necessarily got a responsibility to everyone, but I think his
21:41
locus of responsibility is like a lot more complex and advanced.
21:45
Like he's sort of like small community that he belongs with
21:48
him. 100%. That's where his responsibility,
21:50
that's you're basically saying that's where his responsibility
21:52
lies. Yeah, I think the the main part
21:54
of responsibility lies there. I do think he's got a slightly
21:57
less important wider responsibility, but I don't
22:00
think that should determine his actions in terms of picking a
22:03
country. I think he should be able to
22:05
switch to Ghana. It's weird.
22:07
That you say that because the reason why I thought it was a
22:10
net positive is because let's break it down to a foundational
22:13
level. The problem with or the problem
22:16
that people find, not me personally, the problem that
22:18
people find with people switching nations is you tried
22:22
to play for England, right? I believe Eddie and Ketia has
22:27
one cap for England and Hudson and Doy has three.
22:30
So you've tried to play for England, it hasn't worked out
22:33
for whatever reason, right or wrong, and now you see your home
22:38
country doing well and you want to move back.
22:40
Yeah, there's a cynicism there. There's a precisely.
22:42
Yeah. So when we break it down, we're
22:45
we're basically asking ourselves like, did they make the decision
22:49
for good reasons? But I'm like the reasons don't
22:52
even matter because if they have success, for example, like the
22:56
14 French born Algerians that play for Algerian people now
23:00
look at Algeria as a strong footballing nation.
23:04
And it inspires young people to want to play for Algeria.
23:07
And so if they go and play for Ghana and perform and Ghana do
23:10
well, it has an impact on younger generations who might
23:15
have before thought, OK, I'm going to play for England.
23:17
Now they decide to play for Ghana because they've seen
23:19
success from that nation. So I was like, it doesn't matter
23:23
really. A. 100% a hundred.
23:25
Percent. That's why your point was kind
23:27
of odd to me that like the reason why I think it's a
23:29
positive is because of the wider nation.
23:32
Do you get what I mean? Because of the impact on it.
23:35
So to suggest that like he doesn't have a responsibility to
23:38
them, I don't know. Like they do benefit from it if
23:42
it goes well. It's funny that you as an
23:44
athlete would take that that approach because I think what
23:47
I'm saying is actually more human centred and is more
23:51
empathetic to the athlete themselves.
23:53
Yeah. In your own life like would you
23:56
not make decisions that sort of prioritise your local community,
24:01
your family, friends 1st and then put the nation and everyone
24:06
else like as a secondary? Thought 100% right.
24:10
But we're discussing net positive or not.
24:13
So when we're discussing that positive or not, we're we're
24:16
looking at the broader society, right?
24:18
Like, but yeah, individual, but I'll support that decision every
24:21
day of the week. Let me not mix my words, right.
24:25
When you're looking at the broader reason as to why it's a
24:28
net positive or not, that's why I saw it as a net positive
24:30
because of the impact it has on a national scale.
24:34
That's interesting. That's interesting.
24:36
I think, I think the obviously there's just more people the
24:38
scale of like the impact is quite large when you look at it
24:41
on a national scale. Yeah, I think that's a
24:46
compelling argument. I think we're we're both saying
24:48
the same thing. We're both net positive, but for
24:49
different. Reasons for different reasons,
24:51
yeah, for. Different reasons, but obviously
24:52
that you see that that that idea of they couldn't make it in
24:57
England and they're switching to their home country, obviously.
25:02
I don't even like that phrasing, by the way.
25:03
Like they couldn't make it. Like it's actually burns a hole
25:07
in my chest a little bit. It's like this particular
25:11
cultural regime, he didn't suit them for whatever reason.
25:14
Yeah, I mean like it's not even like they couldn't make.
25:16
It I'm, I'm actually saying it from the point of view of their
25:19
critics, okay, not as in like my own opinion, but obviously you
25:22
were telling me about how the current Ghanaian squad and the
25:25
current Ghanaian fans all kind of like angry at them for doing
25:30
that because they see it in this way.
25:31
Well, some people do. I don't, I don't know if it's
25:33
like only Ghanaians. I think other people as well,
25:36
yeah. OK, OK, you said.
25:37
Who's that? John Obie McHale, Who's?
25:39
Like John, Obie McHale also said something.
25:41
Yeah, they didn't want people towards the end of their careers
25:43
wanting to come and then now play for Nigeria.
25:46
Yeah. And I, I think it's fair because
25:48
you, you're feeling like the home country's second best.
25:51
Like you, you tried, you basically put the England first.
25:54
Yeah. Right.
25:55
It's weird because sorry to cut you off, because I actually
25:59
agree with John Obie McCullough. Yeah.
26:01
But it's still a net positive, Yeah.
26:02
What I mean, like it's still not nice or like ethically is it the
26:06
best way to go about things? Probably not.
26:08
But it's still a net positive. Yeah, what?
26:10
What part of John Obie Mccullough's critique do you do
26:12
you agree? With well, because essentially
26:14
the team sort of struggled together, so we all struggled to
26:18
get here. You weren't.
26:19
Part of that, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that is problematic,
26:22
but I think on a wider scale of the, the positive that comes
26:26
from it is, is greater than the fact you've parachuted in late.
26:31
Yeah, yeah, agreed. Agreed.
26:33
I, I, I like talking about this topic because obviously it's a,
26:35
it's a, it's a nice segue to also us just talking about how
26:39
we feel we fit between home African country and Britain.
26:43
How do you think the their position between Ghana and
26:48
England like plays a factor into their choice to go back to Ghana
26:52
and and like compare comparing that to when you go back home to
26:55
Nigeria, how you feel within the Nigerian like local culture, How
27:00
do you feel like that might have played into that decision?
27:03
It's tough because I, I don't know then.
27:06
Yeah, of course, of course. But put yourself in a position
27:08
where you're picking to play for, like if if that was a
27:11
thing. Weird because like I actually I
27:13
actually believe this to be true.
27:14
Like I, I don't know if it actually would be the case if
27:16
like I was there, but I, I feel like in rugby, for example, like
27:21
if Nigeria and England were as good as each other, there's a
27:24
strong chance I would have chosen Nigeria.
27:25
Yeah. Do you get what I mean?
27:26
Yeah, a very, very strong chance. 100, I believe that,
27:30
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
27:32
So the reason why I think about it in this sort of way is I'm
27:35
comfy in England. I kind of know my way around
27:38
London. Pretty comfy, like the back of
27:40
my hand really. I have branches that spread all
27:43
across London. The same doesn't go for in Benin
27:47
or in Lagos or in Abuja. So like you sort of want to
27:52
generate those routes in those places because you feel
27:54
connected there, but you don't have the same routes, right?
27:57
And so I always felt that like if you got to play for that
28:00
country, you would take it because that's the opportunity
28:02
to generate those routes there because because you currently
28:05
just don't have those. And like, I don't know if that
28:08
came into their, their thought process, maybe they don't care
28:10
about that. Do you know what I mean?
28:11
Like, but it would be something that I would have done for the
28:14
for that reason. 100% because obviously, especially as an
28:17
adult, it's actually not that it's not that common that you
28:20
get to literally explore and shape your identity as a grown
28:24
ass man, right? Usually by like by the time you
28:27
hit 2530, you know, you're comfy, your life is sort of set
28:32
up. You know, you're not, you're not
28:34
having that massive upheaval and like huge changes in who you are
28:38
as a person. But there's obviously this thing
28:42
of like back home, there's this whole rich culture, this whole
28:46
rich heritage that in a sense you're slightly disconnected
28:48
from. Slightly and you know, I mean
28:50
you've got this sort of diluted version of it as well.
28:53
You've only got the version your parents gave.
28:54
Exactly. And that's kind of actually
28:56
frozen in time from the time they left.
28:58
That exactly. It's not even current.
29:00
Like when I went back home to Ethiopia, I was like, like, I
29:03
even actually felt my parents being out of touch with the the
29:07
the city themselves. Like they're being shown around
29:10
like they're guests, like like. I am you.
29:14
Know what I mean? And I'm like raw I actually got
29:16
I'm a guest that got shown the culture by another guest.
29:19
Do you know what I mean? So now I'm really cooked.
29:23
So my thing is double diluted. So I think, you know, for them
29:29
it's probably a great opportunity, like you said, to
29:30
explore explore their culture and sort of reground their
29:33
roots. You know what?
29:34
I. Mean, yeah, which is sick, I
29:36
think, but yeah, that's us. Amazing.