Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 17-20) (5/17/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 17-20) (5/17/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
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back in to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question,
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so what's your understanding of how Epstein died? Thomas, it's
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been two years he died from hanging? Question? So do
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you believe he died from hanging? Do you believe he
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died from someone trying to murder or someone hurting him?
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Do you believe that he died from a medical response Thomas,
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I'm not medical professional. I don't know. I've seen so
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many things, and I'm faced with so many things. They
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just said that he died from a hanging. Question and
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being the first responder to the person in there, do
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you believe that is how he died? Now, because you
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said again previously when I was asking you, I don't
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know if he was alive or dead. Do you believe
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he died from hanging? Thomas? I never believe he died.
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I don't believe the conspiracy that somebody snuck into the
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jail cattlepult. Did Mitchell just answer the questions Thomas? Yes
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or no? Thomas? Oh? No, I mean yes, I believe
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he died from hanging. Question. Do you believe he died
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from hanging? All right? And do you believe that Epstein
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took his own life? Thomas yes question. Did anyone else
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take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. No, did anyone assist
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Epstein and taking his life? Thomas, uh huh, no question.
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Did Noel take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. These are
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questions that we just have to ask because you guys
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were the first to be there, and you guys were
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the ones on duty. Thomas, I'm here with you. Question.
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Did Noel assist Epstein and taking his life? Thomas no question.
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Did you assist Epstein with taking his life? Thomas no question.
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Did you take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. Did you
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have any part in Epstein's death? Thomas no question. Prior
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to Epstein dying, did you do you have any communication, verbal, electronic, handwritten,
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or otherwise with anyone BOP staff members, or otherwise, civilians, inmates,
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anybody about the safety and well being of Epstein? Thomas
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no question. Prior to Epstein dying, did you have any communication, verbal, electronic, handwritten,
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or otherwise with anyone BOP staff members, or otherwise so civilians, inmates,
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anybody about the death of Epstein or taking Epstein's life?
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Thomas no question. Did anyone ever offer you anything such
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as something of value or favors with regard to harming
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Epstein or taking his life? Thomas, no question. Did anyone
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ever threaten you in exchange for harming Epstein or taking
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Epstein's life? Thomas no question. Were any of your family
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members Thomas no, absolutely not. Question. So now we're getting
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more back into the administrative stuff. Why wasn't Epstein And
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does a signed sell on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas,
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I don't know. Question are cell rotations? Do they occur
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with inmates in the shoe that you have to move
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them every certain amount of days? Thomas, yeah, question? All right?
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Who's responsible? Thomas, that's the shoe lieutenant. Question that falls
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on the shoe lieutenant. Thomas, Yeah, from the shoe lieutenant.
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When it falls on the shoe lieutenant to pass down
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to the staff members when they're going to do sell
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rotations or anything like that. Question all right, Thomas. It's
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something that's tracked. If I'm not mistaken, it might be
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tracked on the computer. I don't know. Question in the computer.
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Who's responsible for making that change in the computer? Thomas,
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I don't know. Question. Did you know that Epstein was
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not in his assigned sell Thomas, no question, So this
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is the first time that you're hearing that Thomas, yes, question,
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all right? Is that something that you guys were supposed
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to monitor or do when you're in the shoe during
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your assignment? Are you supposed to make sure that inmates
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are in their assigned cells? Thomas and I come in
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at twelve, that's all taken care of. You don't move
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anybody at twelve midnight. Question. Yeah, I just didn't know
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if that's something that you guys are supposed to like
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pay attention to, Like, all right, this guy is supposed
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to be in this cell. This guy is supposed to
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be in that cell. Thomas. It's seventy something inmates or something.
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If fifteen inmates come down on short staff and they
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got to move, maybe all fifteen won't get done. So
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maybe somebody is in a twenty one day rotation. They're
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probably laid over for like five or whatever, a couple days.
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But I don't know as far as you're going by
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cell rotation, and his cell rotation is up twenty one
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days and he hasn't moved there, and he was in
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the wrong cell. I don't know that. I don't know.
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Question Okay Thomas. Like I said, I'm not in custody.
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I wouldn't deal with that question. Okay. So I'm assuming
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it's the officers who actually move them physically to a
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different cell. Thomas. Yeah. Question who goes into the system
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and changes it in the BOP data? Would that be
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the officers, Thomas, officers or operation or the shoe lieutenant question? Okay,
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but that's nothing that's done at twelve am. Thomas, that's
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nothing that's done at twelve am. No, it's not question,
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all right. Do you know why pill bottles were found
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within Epstein cell? Thomas? No, I do not. Question. Are
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inmates allowed to have medication within their cells? Thomas? I'm
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sure some are allowed? Yeah, question they're allowed Thomas. I'm
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sure that some are allowed medication. I don't know what
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medication they need or anything like that. Question. Do you
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ever recall seeing a picture I'm showing you with medication
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that was in Epstein cell? Do you recall seeing this? Thomas? No? Question,
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does that look like something that he would have been
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authorized to have with that much medication. Thomas, I don't
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know what they are. Question. I don't know that they're
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authorized and what they're not authorized. Question. Okay, just because
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I showed it to you, can you mind just initially
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and dating it? Thomas, I'm sorry I keep closing this question.
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No worries, and so you don't know anything about like
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policies are related to what they're authorized or not authorized?
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Thomas No question? Would that be up to like medical
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Thomas medical? Yeah? Question? Okay, are you familiar just in
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general non medical related what inmates are authorized and not authorized? Thomas, No,
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I'm not. Question you're not even familiar Thomas. Mmm. Question
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with what they can and can't have in their cells? Thomas, No,
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I'm not. No. All right, hold on, I have to interject.
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How are you a prison guard and you don't know
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what people are allowed to have or not have in
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their cells? Question? Do you know if the shoe is
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any different than the rest of the institution of what
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inmates can and cannot have in their cell? Thomas, yes, absolutely,
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I'm sure it's different. I don't know though, because I'm
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sure it's different because that's the twenty three on one.
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So I'm sure, it's different from a regular housing unit.
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On there, it'll walk around. Question what's twenty three on
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one now? Thomas, they're locked down twenty three hours a
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day and then one hour is for wreck. Question. But
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as far as what they're allowed to have in their cells, Thomas, No,
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I don't know the book version of what they're allowed
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and what they're not allowed. Question, So do you know
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of other inmates are allowed to have medication in their
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cells at this time? Thomas? I don't know. Question You
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don't know how many changes of clothings and linen's are
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allowed in intimate cell within the shoe Thomas, I don't know. Question.
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You don't know, Thomas, that's something that would be done
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prior to my shift. Question. Sure, so does this look
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like an exorbitant amount of clothing and linens that are
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in mister Epstein's cell in that picture? Thomas, It looks
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like a lot, but that could have just been I
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don't know what's from the previous inmate that's left over
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that they didn't take a stuff like Again, I don't
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know the inmate that left they didn't take his linen
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out or not. And you can't tell from these pictures
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which is ripped up and which is ripped up and
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which is not. Most inmates will get a bed sheet,
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rip it up and put it up as all types
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of stuff that goes on. But I don't know if
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that's something doing or not. It has to be broken
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down to, all right, this is seven sheets, and if
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I have seven sheets or something like that, then yes
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that's excessive. But other than that, I don't know that
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they're supposed to have within what they're not supposed to
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have one sheet? I really don't know. Question. Is it
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supposed to be a one for one exchange? Thomas? Yeah,
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it's one for one. Question, So they're only technically supposed
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to have one Thomas. It's two sheets one blanket I think,
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or one blanket, one sheet and one towel in one
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washcloth question okay Thomas, And I can't remember the full thing? Question?
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And do you Thomas cuts them off. That's not something
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that happens on Morning Watch. That's something that happens prior
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to the Morning Watch, when I stayed there from twelve
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to one question Okay, Thomas, that's not something I have
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twelve to one you don't take the inmates out, and
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I don't know, And you don't give them anything unless
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somebody is coming in off the street. It's already pre
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bed was made that you're giving to them to put
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this over there, and usually they try to put them
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on G tier, single cell until they can find out
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what their affiliation is or anything like that. Redacted. Okay,
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But to you though, if there's one person in that cell,
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does that look like it's too much linen and too
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much clothing? Thomas? Like again, I can't tell what's ripped
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up and what's not ripped up. Question, Okay, do you
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mind just initially and dating these Thomas. Question, I've just
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got a question by somebody else. Now, this is somebody
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else interjecting. Did the cell look like that when you
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walked in? Thomas? I don't remember the clothes and stuff
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being on the floor. I don't remember that much linen
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being on the floor. Honestly, I couldn't tell you what's there.
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I just remember him hanging on his side. Mitchell breaks already.
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Question push pause. All right, we're being asked to take
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a break, So they take their break and then they
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come back. Thomas. Okay, question, and we're showing you the
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pictures Thomas, absolutely, question, did you provide Epstein with additional
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clothing or Lennon's Thomas, no question, ever, Thomas, no question.
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Is that anything that you would typically happen between the
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hours that you work? Thomas, no question. Twelve to eight
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am Thomas, no question, Okay. Is providing inmates with extra
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clothing and Lennon's a security risk? Thomas, I don't know.
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I don't know if it's a security risk or anything
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like that because I don't know. Question okay. Question we
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touched on this, but when inmates are provided linen's, is
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it's supposed to be a one for one exchange? Thomas? Yeah?
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Question all right? And is that typically what they are
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utilizing in order to do things like hanging themselves? Thomas,
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I don't know. I really don't know what's the typical thing.
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Question that's what they used in this case, though it
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appears Thomas, Yeah, that's what it appears. In this case.
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You see the sheet or a shirt, I don't know
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what it is. Question Okay, and somebody on suicide Watch,
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do you think it's abnormal? Again, you didn't provide the linens,
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but do you think it's abnormal if he had extra linens?
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If he was someone that was just on suicide watch, Thomas,
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it's not abnormal for someone to have extra linen. Question
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it's not, Thomas m question. So if that's supposed to
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be a one for one exchange, is that like a
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constant problem then at the mcc Thomas, in a perfect world,
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in a perfect world, it couldn't be. But like I said,
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I'm not custody. I'm not always up here like that.
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And when as you can see, all the linen and
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that stuff is all already done? Question okay, and again
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we talked about this briefly. But what material was used
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to take Epstein's life in August of twenty nineteen. Thomas,
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I don't know what it was. A sheet or a shirt.
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I don't know exactly what it was. Question This orange cotton,
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which could be either Thomas, a sheet or a shirt. Question,
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a sheet or a shirt? Okay? Question does this appear
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to be what it was that was removed from mister Epstein? Thomas,
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it appears to be. Yes. Question Okay, can you just
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walk me through like this thing specifically looks like it's
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still intact? Thomas, Uh huh? Question did you have to
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rip it off or slide it over his head? Thomas?
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What are you talking about that was still intact. Yeah,
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I took it off his head. I guess I took
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it off his head. I don't remember I did, but
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I guess I took it off his head. But like
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I said, when I ripped it, it was tied to
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the other portion of it. That's what I meant when
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I said I ripped it off, like just when I
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just pulled it off. Question. Okay, so maybe it could
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have also been posted that this was part that's what
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was actually connected. This is the part that was possibly
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ripped Thomas, just pushed off. Yeah, like that. It probably
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just slipped through or whatever the case may be through
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that question. Okay, but you said you ripped it off, Thomas. Yeah,
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I ripped it off. I just ripped it from the
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piece that's still dangling. Question. You don't recall actually sliding it, Thomas.
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I don't recall. If it's still intact, maybe I did. Question,
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And again I don't know that that was what was
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actually around his neck. Thomas. I don't know, question, but
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that does appear to be probably what was around his neck. Thomas. Okay,
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question is that correct? Thomas, I don't know. Question, you're
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not exactly sure Thomas. I'm not exactly sure. Question, but
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does this look like something like you recall when you
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took it off his head? Mister Thomas. Yeah? Question, all right,
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just because I showed it, you want to just initial
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in date? All right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right here,
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and then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
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going to pick up where we left off. All the
14:04
information that goes with this episode can be found in
14:08
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
14:11
episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
14:14
to dive right back in to the Michael Thomas deposition
14:18
with the OIG inspectors question. So we have a few
14:24
follow up questions and it's going to be by multiple
14:27
different people. Unfortunately their names are adapted. Question with regard
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to when you conducted the indiscernible Thomas no problem question,
14:39
Agent just mentioned it too. So you walked in. Is
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Epstein to your right or your left? Thomas my right? Question? Okay?
14:47
And when you see him right is he hanging Thomas? Yeah? Question?
14:52
And where was in comparison to this In comparison to
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this picture, whereabout was his head Thomas? Maybe a little
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bit below the circle, maybe right here, I guess I
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can't remember exactly, or maybe a little bit below that circle.
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Question and this whole body on the floor. Was his
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butt on the floor, Thomas, no question? What part of
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his body was on the floor? Thomas, I don't recall
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what was on the floor. I don't think anything was
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on the floor. I don't really remember. Question was his
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legs on the floor? Feet on the floor? Thomas, Well,
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I'm going to say his feet was on the floor.
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Question you would assume because it doesn't look up that
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high Thomas, Yeah, because it doesn't have the yeah. Question,
15:33
So you think his feet were on the floor Thomas,
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I really don't remember exactly, but I mean I would
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assume his feet was on the floor. Question. Now see
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there's a knot on the noose right here? What part
15:45
of the neck was that not on? Like when you
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see it, did you try to loosen it or tried
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to take it off? What part of the neck was
15:52
that on? Do you recall at all? Thomas? I really don't.
15:55
I really don't question. When you pulled it, it looks
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like there's a portion left back on here. Was that
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attached to this Thomas? Like I said, he said he
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was a portion of that. Like I said, when I
16:08
remember ripping all that down, I don't know if I
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just if it slipped through or whatever may be the case.
16:15
I just remember going like this and he going to
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the ground, and then we started doing chess compressions. Question
16:23
and he came off easily? Thomas, Yes, he came off easily.
16:27
It didn't come off too hard. Question. And you don't
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recall trying to get cut off? Thomas. I don't recall
16:33
taking the noose off. I really don't. I don't recall
16:36
taking that thing off from around his neck. Question. Do
16:39
you remember if the linen ripped so it's separated from
16:42
this or if this is possibly the same thing as that.
16:45
Do you recall when it ripped? Do you remember if
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it like tore and broke and came into two separate
16:50
pieces Thomas, I don't question. No, Thomas, I don't remember. Question.
16:56
So when you looked into his cell, were the lights
16:58
on or off? Question? I want to say the light
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was on. I think the light was on. Question. Okay,
17:04
so you knocked on the cell and he didn't answer,
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so you had to open it? Thomas, Yeah. Question, do
17:10
you recall actually opening turning the key to open the
17:13
cell or was the cell already open? Thomas gnawed the cell.
17:16
I had to open the cell. Question. Okay, you walked in,
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you saw this, Now I want to in this picture,
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I saw something. This picture right here, the one you initialed.
17:25
You see the mattress on the floor Thomas. Okay. Question
17:29
was that on the floor when you walked in? Thomas,
17:31
I don't remember. I don't know. Question because he would
17:34
have been technically, he would have been just laying here
17:37
right Thomas. Yeah, he's off to the side. Yeah, you
17:41
can't see you can't see his right right here, but
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he's off to the side. Question. And he gets caught
17:47
off by Thomas because there's a lip, Like you said,
17:50
there's a lip right here is covering that side of
17:52
the wall. Question. And this mattress, where does it belong
17:57
up here on top? Thomas? Yeah, if that's one on
18:00
the floor, yeah, that belongs on top. Question. And you
18:03
don't recall all of this laying around or anything? Thomas, No,
18:06
I don't, No, I don't. Question. We're just trying to
18:10
get an idea, was to sell a mess or anything
18:12
like that? Thomas, It could be a totally different thing,
18:16
because I've seen inmates look like that and their mattress
18:22
on the floor. Some inmates sleep on the floor just
18:24
because it's a bunk bed, they don't have to sleep
18:26
on the top. Some people just sleep on the floor.
18:28
And then I mean, I'm just saying, because all that
18:31
stuff was up top there, maybe he just slept on
18:33
the floor. I don't know. Question. Okay, all right, now
18:37
we're going back to the linens. Thomas, Uh huh. Question.
18:40
Was Epstein given special privileges to have extra clothing or
18:44
linen's Thomas, I don't know. Question, You're not sure if
18:48
he was, what shift would typically take care of that, Thomas.
18:52
It could be daywatch or evening watch. Question, so either
18:55
one of those two other shifts. Thomas, Yeah. Question. Do
18:59
you know if anything with in Epstein's cell that should
19:02
not have been there? Thomas, I don't know. Question. Can
19:05
you tell me a little bit about sell searches and
19:08
how they work in the shoe Thomas. They usually conduct
19:11
it on day shift because that's when most people are around,
19:14
just in case you have an uncooperative inmate and you
19:17
check the cell for contraband. Contraband can be anywhere from
19:20
a leftover tray being in there, to too much paper
19:23
in may to get mail too many papers left in there,
19:26
which is called nuisance trash. Question Okay, Thomas, but it
19:31
all depends on anybody else who is conducting it. Question,
19:35
And this isn't regarding your specific shift. I mean to
19:38
discussed your shift. But for cell searches, this shows it's
19:42
the MCC New York Special Post Order Special Housing Unit.
19:46
For here it says all shoe staff are expected to
19:48
conduct searches of the Special Housing Unit. The morning watch
19:52
officer will conduct conduct searches of the common areas and
19:56
document their findings in the search section of the true
19:58
scape page. The day watch officers will conduct a search
20:03
of every inmate cell who attends recreation. The evening watch
20:07
officer will conduct a minimum of five cell searches during
20:10
their shift. The entire Special Housing Unit will be searched
20:14
each and every week. Do you know is that your
20:17
understanding of what the policy is? Thomas? Yeah. Question do
20:21
you know if the other if MCC was following this policy,
20:25
the officers that were assigned, were they actually conducting the searches? Thomas,
20:29
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Question,
20:32
do you have any knowledge of anybody conducting cell searches
20:35
in the shoe. Thomas, I'm sure that they do. Like
20:38
I said, I'm not custody up there during the day
20:41
and during the evening, so I don't know what they're
20:44
what the time, and no specific time when those have
20:47
to be done, So I don't know. Question all right,
20:49
And again, just because I showed it to you, do
20:52
you mind just initially page five of fourteen on the
20:55
special post orders from the Shoe? Do you know if
20:59
any others that Epstein had with other inmates? Thomas no question.
21:04
And you said the last time that you interacted with
21:07
Epstein was when you fed him in the morning. Yeah, Thomas,
21:10
yes question, And I apologize now it was so many
21:13
hours ago. What was his state of mind at the time,
21:16
could you tell? Thomas no question. Did he see him
21:21
unusual Thomas, no question. No, Thomas, no question. Did it
21:26
all strike you that maybe he was getting ready to
21:28
kill himself or anything? Thomas, no question? In distress? No?
21:33
Did he complain about anything? Thomas, no question. Did you
21:38
talk with him at all? Thomas, no question. You didn't
21:42
say good morning or anything, Thomas. If I did, I
21:44
don't remember if I did. Here's your tray. Question. Do
21:48
you know any of the threats that were made to Epstein? Thomas,
21:52
no question. Do you know why Epstein was in prison? Thomas,
21:56
now I do, yes. Question did you at the time Thomas,
22:00
I really didn't know who Epstein was? Question? You didn't Thomas,
22:04
or the stipulation behind everything behind them? No question? All right,
22:08
So at the time, did you have any specific feelings
22:10
in regard to Epstein? Thomas no question. No. Did you
22:15
speak about Epstein with other inmates? Thomas, no question. When
22:19
the medical emergency was discovered, do you believe that you
22:21
and OEL acted appropriately per BOP policy? Thomas yes. Question
22:27
were you and OEL supposed to take immediate action or
22:30
should you have waited for responding staff? Thomas, I think
22:34
we're supposed to take immediate action. Question Okay, did BOP
22:38
policy say that you should have called a lieutenant and
22:41
wait for their arrival prior to entering Epstein's cell? Thomas,
22:45
I don't know what the policy says. Imagine that's your comment, bro,
22:50
you're a corrections officer here, How do you know the policy? Question? So,
22:56
have you ever been taught like it could be a ruse?
23:00
And if you go in there by yourself without responding staff,
23:02
They could then overtake you and potentially have you as
23:05
a hostage. Thomas, Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that before,
23:09
but then I've always heard it has to be two
23:11
staff members to one inmate. Question okay, Thomas and me
23:16
and Noel was there? So question Okay, so you believe
23:19
because Noel was there you followed the policy? Thomas, Yeah,
23:22
question okay, Thomas, I'm not worried about question. So you
23:26
said that after the medical emergency, you actually went down
23:30
with them to the second floor. Did anything happen with
23:32
Epstein's body on the way, did you guys like drop
23:35
the stretcher or Thomas? No question, he remained, his body
23:40
getting maintained. What about when you were getting him onto
23:44
the stretcher, did he do a smooth transition from the
23:46
floor up to the stretcher? Thomas, As far as I remember,
23:50
I don't really recall. Question you don't remember, Thomas, I
23:54
don't think it was any different question him dropping or
23:57
landing or anything like that. Thomas, I don't remember any
24:00
of that. Question. What about when he was going from
24:03
the stretcher to whatever they put him in when they
24:07
got to the second floor Thomas. Yeah. Once we got
24:09
him to the second floor, he got into the room.
24:11
I was hands off though there were so many other
24:14
people around. I wasn't part of that. Question And did
24:17
you leave at the time leave the room? Thomas? Yeah,
24:19
I left the room at that time. Question where did
24:22
you go and what did you do? Thomas? I don't
24:25
remember exactly where I went. I think I went to
24:28
my office and then I stepped outside. Question Okay, did
24:32
any supervisor or staff talk to you about the incident? Thomas,
24:35
no question. Did you make any statements to anyone Thomas?
24:39
No question? Did you do or sign any paperwork? Thomas?
24:43
No question? What time did your shift end Thomas, right
24:49
after the incident? Question Okay, what time did you depart
24:52
the mcc Thomas? Maybe about nine thirty ish? Question all right,
24:57
so it happened at like six thirty three, But you
24:59
did stay until Thomas, No, I stayed until because eight
25:03
let's say about eight something, because when I was trying
25:07
to leave and go home, I kept getting calls, of course,
25:09
from everybody. Then the warden called me and told me
25:13
he was just concerned about me because of what I've
25:15
seen and me being traumatized, and so he sent somebody
25:19
to talk to me, and they met me further down
25:21
from the thing to come and talk to me. Question Okay, Thomas,
25:25
somebody from the crisis support team. Question Okay, all right, folks,
25:31
we're gonna wrap up right here, and then the next
25:33
episode dealing with the topic, We're gonna pick up where
25:35
we left off. All the information that goes with this
25:38
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
25:43
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
25:47
this episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off
25:49
with the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question.
25:56
All right, so probably around eight ish is when you're
25:59
thinking Thomas, Yeah, about eight ish or so. Question Okay,
26:03
did you handle or touch any of Epstein's files or paperwork? Thomas? No.
26:10
Question during your shift, would you ever handle any files? Thomas? No,
26:15
they're in sleeping No, we don't touch any of those. Thomas.
26:19
You're talking about any files inside his cell? Question No,
26:22
the files that you guys have that you maintain for
26:25
the inmates. Thomas, No, I didn't touch any of those things. Question.
26:30
I think they're called two ninety twos or something. Thomas, Oh, Yeah. No,
26:34
I didn't touch any of those things. Question. And did
26:37
you ever touch them during your shift? Thomas during a shift?
26:40
No question? No, Thomas, will excuse me, let me change that.
26:45
After you finish feeding, you mark that you fed everybody.
26:48
But that's not a paperwork thing, I think, if I'm
26:50
not mistaken, that's done on the computer. Question. Okay, so
26:54
that's not something you do. He gets caught off by Thomas. Yeah,
26:58
continues the question, like on ninth you would have gone
27:01
into Epstein's file Thomas, no question. Have you ever seen
27:05
Epstein's file? Thomas, no question. No. Do you know anybody
27:10
that did potentially remove files from Epstein's files? Thomas, no question.
27:15
Do you know that anybody that went back into the
27:17
shoe and removed any like tags or documents or Thomas
27:21
I was gone, I don't know. Question. Okay, but did
27:23
you remove anything from the office Thomas, I didn't remove anything.
27:27
No question. No. Another question after that? Can I ask
27:33
do you know where the file is kept? Thomas? No question?
27:37
And so you never removed or destroyed any of Epstein's
27:40
paperwork Thomas, No, I did not question. And you never
27:43
removed or destroyed any signs related to Epstein. Thomas No.
27:48
I did not question that were up in the shoe.
27:52
Thomas No, I did not question. Did you ever access
27:55
any BOP database such as bop ware Century True View
28:00
after Epstein was discovered on August tenth? Thomas No, I
28:04
haven't been back to that institution, no question. No, and
28:07
you can only access that from the institution. Thomas exactly. Question,
28:14
did you ever discuss anyone altering any documents? Thomas No.
28:17
I did not question or removing any documents? Thomas No.
28:21
I did not question accessing any BOP database Thomas no.
28:26
I did not question did anyone tell you that they
28:30
destroyed anything? Thomas No, They did not question moved anything.
28:34
Thomas No, sir. Question or access to any database? Thomas no, sir.
28:40
Question have you reported for any shifts following August tenth,
28:43
twenty nineteen, Thomas no question. No. Were you placed on
28:48
administrative leave? Thomas yes. Question by whom? Thomas, whoever is
28:54
in charge? I can't remember what my letter says. It's
28:57
the ward and I guess question. So they didn't speak
29:00
with you directly? Thomas No, I got a letter in
29:02
the mail. Question and that's how they informed you? Thomas Yeah.
29:06
Question Okay, what did the letters say, Thomas, I'm placed
29:09
on administrative leave pretty much. Question, Oh, Thomas, and the
29:14
whole bunch of pending something. I can't remember the exact
29:17
lettering wording what they said. Question okay, and is that
29:21
what you remain on now administrative leave? Thomas No, I'm
29:26
on the question in definite suspension Thomas. Yeah. Question did
29:31
you communicate with Noel after Epstein's body was discovered? Thomas Nope. Question,
29:37
So you have not communicated with her since? Thomas. Besides,
29:40
one time we had to sit down and talk after
29:42
the case was over. Well, after the thing, we just
29:45
had a union meeting, that was it. Question Okay Thomas,
29:49
and she did come there that type of thing, but
29:52
we didn't discuss the case. Question and you didn't discuss
29:55
the case Thomas, No, we did not. Question Okay. So, well,
30:00
who from MCC have you communicated with regarding Epstein's indictment
30:04
or incident? I mean on August tenth, Thomas Nobody. Question
30:08
no one, Thomas Nobody. Question I'm assuming aside from your
30:12
union representative. Thomas. Well, I just actually just started to
30:16
him more often. But yeah, question okay, so he would
30:19
be the only one Thomas, Yeah, him the union president. Question. Okay,
30:25
can ten and this is something that I just thought
30:27
of when you just took a break, something that I
30:31
realized I didn't ask. Can ten South obtain access to
30:34
the shoe? Thomas? Yeah? Question? And can you do that
30:39
without telling anyone allowing them to enter? Thomas? No, you're
30:42
talking about from the outside. No, Thomas, they have to
30:47
come through the shoe to get to ten South. There's
30:50
no other way from anybody from the outside or from
30:53
any other part of the institution to get to the
30:56
shoe besides from the outer door. Well, what about the
30:59
intakes system? This is me asking the question, you know,
31:03
the HVAC system. Could someone crawl through there? I don't know.
31:06
I have questions though. Question Okay, so, could have could
31:11
have anyone from ten South access the shoe without you
31:14
or Noel being Thomas? No question? And can you just
31:18
show who was in ten South when you were there?
31:22
Can you show me on the daily assignment roster? So
31:25
who would have been in ten South when you guys
31:27
were there? Thomas redacted? Question? And do you remember if
31:32
redacted visited the shoe at any time? Thomas, I don't remember. Question,
31:37
would they have been the closest unit to you though, Thomas, yeah.
31:40
Question okay, but you don't recall, Thomas, I don't recall.
31:44
Question okay, and forefeeding or any counts or anything like that,
31:48
did you guys or would you typically interact Thomas? Yeah, well,
31:52
if they just for the count to help them count.
31:56
Question okay, would he personally? What time? Would he be
32:00
on to same shift as you until eight am? Thomas, yeah,
32:04
same shift? Question would he possibly be the person that
32:07
showed up at five thirty am in the shoe? Thomas No,
32:11
because he was on for the morning watch if he
32:14
was on there from twelve am to eight am? Question
32:18
all right, but you don't recall, Thomas, somebody coming in
32:21
at five thirty Question who showed up at five thirty am? Thomas, No,
32:25
I don't recall anybody coming in at five thirty am.
32:28
Question okay, so four am was Lieutenant redacted. But you
32:31
don't remember anybody at five thirty am? Thomas, No, I
32:35
don't remember anybody at five thirty am. Question all right,
32:38
but there's no you were there and there is no
32:42
way that anyone could have accessed the shoe from inside. No, well,
32:47
or you allowing them to get in, Thomas to allow
32:49
them to get in. Yeah. Question okay, and you said
32:52
epstein cell was locked when you went in there, and
32:55
when you did find him and rip the thing off,
32:57
did you notice that his body was either cold or warm?
33:02
Question Thomas, I didn't notice. Question you didn't notice that? Thomas?
33:06
No question? Is there anything that I'm missing? Anything you
33:09
want to add to this? Thomas, I don't. I guess
33:12
I'm not well versed. Question please well versed in what
33:18
Thomas well versed in the policy or anything? But no,
33:21
I have nothing to add. Question Okay, would you like
33:24
to question? I just have a follow up question? Thomas. Sure. Question.
33:30
When we showed you that email from redacted, you said
33:33
that you've seen that before. Right. Question said I've seen
33:36
that before or excuse me? Answer by Thomas. I said
33:39
I've seen that before. Question not that email specifically, but
33:44
you've seen that type of email sent out from psych before. Thomas.
33:48
I said, I've seen that type of email that you know.
33:50
I thought. I didn't read the top of the email
33:52
because some of them just say and why am all staff?
33:56
Because they say all staff and it sent out to everybody?
34:00
Question is it normally sent out to everyone? Thomas, No,
34:03
sometimes it is sometimes with that specific probably just sent
34:08
out to the shoe and staff. Because my name wasn't
34:10
on it and I'm not custody, so it was probably
34:13
just sent out to custody. Question if it was an
34:17
important discussion, it's something that needed immediate attention, would they
34:21
have sent it out Thomas above my pay grade? Question? No?
34:25
Would they normally send it out to all staff? Thomas, No,
34:28
it doesn't have to question. Okay, now, Agent redacted, just
34:31
ask you a question. How could anyone have come in
34:35
and out of nine south out of the shoe? Question
34:38
ten south? Question ten south? But out of the shoe
34:42
if you were sleeping? Thomas, Uh huh? Is it possible
34:45
someone could have come onto or into the shoe and
34:48
left without you knowing if you were sleeping Thomas, No question,
34:52
because you would have had to let them in. Thomas.
34:55
I would have had to let them in. Question. Is
34:57
there any other way that they could have got in
34:59
without you letting them in? Thomas? No question. Could someone
35:03
else have a key that they could have used? Thomas,
35:07
It would have come from control keys. The only other
35:09
keys are in control. Question? So the only other key
35:13
is in control? Thomas yeah. Question. Okay, so the count
35:17
the sheets we spoke about the count sheets and the signature,
35:20
that's Noel's Thomas, Yeah. Question, the initials were Noel's, not
35:27
the counts that was on the rounds. I mean, sorry,
35:30
the round sheets. Thomas. Uh huh. Question, Noel took initials
35:34
were on it. Do you recall when Noel signed those sheets?
35:37
Thomas No, I don't question if the video. Let's just
35:41
say you guys were both asleep at one point Thomas,
35:44
uh huh. Question for a couple of hours. Would she
35:47
have filled it up signed those sheets before or after?
35:50
Because she would not have committed those she wouldn't have
35:52
done those rounds. Did you ever see her pull those
35:55
round sheets out and initial them Thomas No. I really
35:58
wasn't paying attention to what she was doing. I really
36:01
don't remember. Question. Have you ever worked in the shoe
36:04
with Noel before? Thomas? It's possible. I don't know. I
36:07
don't really remember. Maybe I have, I don't really remember.
36:10
It's possible, but like I said, I don't know. Question. Okay,
36:14
The reason I ask if you ever worked with Noel before?
36:18
And you said, the most of the time you do
36:20
the rounds and the counts. Thomas, Uh huh. Question, would
36:24
it have been kind of awkward that both of you
36:26
guys sat down, didn't discuss the fact you're not going
36:29
to do the counts, don't discuss the fact you're going
36:32
to do the rounds, and just sat down, slept and
36:34
you know, went on the computer. But no one spoke
36:37
about the facts. But someone between the both of you guys,
36:40
you initial the rounds, the count slips, and also the
36:43
round sheets. Thomas, speaking of I don't believe that we
36:47
had any conversation. I don't really remember any conversation that
36:50
we had or anything like that. There are some things
36:52
that are just not spoken about. It could have been
36:55
like I said, I was exhausted. Hey listen, I did
36:58
whatever whatever, and she did whatever whatever, and that was it.
37:02
Question Does it mean Thomas, there wasn't No he gets
37:05
cut off If you worked with her in the past,
37:08
Does that mean you guys did the same thing in
37:10
the past, Thomas, No, question and just knew Thomas, No,
37:14
it doesn't mean that, absolutely not. Question. How come either
37:18
of you didn't nudge each other to say, hey, let's
37:20
go question or Thomas, I can't say what happened? What
37:25
was going on with her. I knew what was going
37:27
on with me. I was just as you could see
37:29
by roster. And that's not my work roster. That's just
37:34
my overtime roster that you all pulled up and brought
37:36
to me. It's every day, every day. And I was
37:39
just I had things that I had going on at
37:41
the time. Question, And I think the point being there,
37:44
and again, because you're under oath, we just want to
37:46
make sure that we're clear here. In fact, it was
37:50
like an unspoken thing you guys did, but it seemed
37:53
to be so natural that you didn't conduct any rounds
37:56
or any counts. So it just seems odd that you
37:58
wouldn't have happened in the past if there was no
38:01
discussion that we're had, mister Thomas, Like I said, if
38:05
I did work with her, I don't remember if I
38:07
did or did not. I mean it's quite possible. I
38:10
don't remember everybody that I work with in the shoe.
38:13
But it wasn't something that we just spoke about. Question.
38:17
Isn't it kind of awkward that the one night that
38:19
both of you guys decided that the rounds are not
38:21
going to be done, the counts are not going to
38:23
be done that this incident happens Thomas, it is question,
38:28
is it possible Thomas cuts him off? But it's never
38:31
happened before, so of course it's an awkward thing. Question.
38:34
Is it possible that you guys haven't done any of
38:37
the rounds or counts on shifts before? Thomas? No, that's
38:41
not possible. I wouldn't put that all to label one
38:44
night for every night that happens in the shoe. Absolutely not.
38:47
I wouldn't label that question. He admitted already that he
38:51
didn't conduct all of the rounds and rounds he's documented,
38:54
but he thinks he's done the majority of them. Is
38:56
that correct, Thomas? I said, I'm not perfect? Question right, Thomas,
39:02
And I've done my rounds. I've done all my rounds
39:04
all the time. But I'm not a perfect person. I
39:07
may have slipped up here or there sometime, but I
39:09
have done my rounds. Just one particular night he gets
39:12
cut off, But not. I think what you said before,
39:15
you're not perfect. You haven't done all your rounds, but
39:18
that mostly Thomas, I would say that on schedule that
39:22
I do my rounds ninety to ninety five percent of
39:25
the time, and sometimes I don't do half an hour.
39:28
I do it on the hour. Question, well what about
39:31
he gets cut off by Thomas? You know what I mean.
39:33
But it's still the rounds getting conducted. Question and what
39:37
for the counts? And now we're talking specifically for the
39:40
shoe Thomas, we're talking about specifically for the shoe. I
39:44
usually get every count done, every count done. All right, folks,
39:47
we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
39:49
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
39:52
we left off. All the information that goes with this
39:54
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
39:58
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
40:03
this episode, we're gonna get right back to the Michael
40:06
Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. And we're getting down
40:10
to the end here. Maybe another episode, two episodes or so,
40:14
and we should be at the end. And then after
40:17
this we're going to dive into other depositions and more
40:21
unsealed files. All right, back to the document question. Okay,
40:26
So and again if we go back to actually the
40:29
video and check to see if you're doing the counts?
40:32
Is that again? And I'm only saying this because I
40:35
was just to remind you that you're under oath. Thomas.
40:37
I understand, question, and this is where that we can
40:41
bring this back up. Thomas cuts them off. I totally understand.
40:46
If you go back to the video, you will see
40:48
that you'll catch me doing my rounds or you'll catch
40:50
me doing my accounts. Like I said. Then that's why
40:53
I said, whereas I'm not perfect, like I said ninety five,
40:57
maybe the oh hold up, you know he didn't do
40:59
this one an hour went by, but he did it
41:02
at an hour and one minute. So then technically by
41:05
the paperwork that I didn't do it every half an hour,
41:08
correct if I do it every other hour, Technically, by
41:11
the paperwork, I didn't do half an hour round. I
41:14
did an hour round. Question, but you would have had
41:17
to still certify that you did it every half hour. Thomas, No,
41:21
you don't have to certify that you did it every
41:23
half hour. I don't believe that has to be if
41:26
you write on the paper that I did it every hour,
41:28
it's just when the round was conducted. When I conducted
41:30
the round. Question, So in order for the rounds to
41:36
be completed, you don't have to actually sign it every
41:38
thirty minutes. Thomas it could be. I'm not saying that
41:41
it has to be. I'm supposed to be done every
41:43
thirty minutes. But if I didn't do it every thirty
41:46
minutes and I did one an hour, that's when I
41:49
wrote that time on there. Question all right, So you
41:52
wouldn't then go back to fill it in that thirty minutes, Thomas, No,
41:56
I wouldn't go back to fill it in question like
41:59
see how they have like, so you would leave one
42:03
blank if it wasn't conducted, Thomas, No, you wouldn't leave
42:07
a blank because somebody would tell you to fill it
42:10
in question. That's what I'm saying, Thomas. If it was
42:13
from twelve thirty to one, and I did the round once,
42:16
so I just put twelve thirty to one, like you'll
42:19
see some round sheets it says from twelve to I
42:22
didn't do it at but between twelve thirty and I
42:25
put twelve forty five, the round is still conducted. Question.
42:29
So what are you saying, Thomas, It probably wasn't done
42:33
in the half an hour block. Question? So you put Thomas,
42:38
it probably wasn't just done in a half an hour block,
42:40
but it was still conducted. Question right, So a round
42:44
was conducted. But if it was covering two, if it
42:47
was conducting an hour block, how would you fill in
42:50
the two? Would they be identical? Thomas? As you can know,
42:55
because as you can see right here, it's not a
42:57
specific time because this just as as long as it's
43:00
between this time. So I did it at twelve ten.
43:05
I started here at twelve ten, and then I did
43:07
the round here it lapped over to twelve forty because
43:11
I got to talking to an inmate or like that.
43:13
It's still round is still conducted. Then right here, you
43:17
know what I'm saying. I go at twelve fifty two
43:19
and I did it. I did a fast round. I
43:22
did it from twelve fifty two to twelve fifty nine.
43:24
The round is still conducted. But even though the last
43:28
though you're caught up in, I understand because it's black
43:31
and white, it's not just done. Just like that, it
43:34
can be done at any given time as long as
43:36
the round is conducted. It doesn't have to be by policy.
43:40
It's supposed to be in the thirty minute block. That's
43:42
when you're talking policy. But he gets cut off with
43:46
thirty to forty Yeah, question, thirty to forty minute block.
43:49
But like i say, if I did it at twelve
43:52
ten and did it at twelve forty, then then right
43:54
here I wanted to just because I wanted to get
43:57
a round done. I conducted at twelve fifty two to
44:00
fifty nine. It's still within the block. It's still conducted. Question. Well,
44:04
that's conducting around correct. But what I thought you said
44:08
it was like you might not do it for a
44:09
whole hour, Thomas. Excuse me, I apologize. That's a twelve
44:15
ten to twelve forty to twelve forty two. I'm saying
44:18
that's an hour because that's pretty much we got twenty minutes,
44:21
ten minutes before and ten minutes after. Then you have
44:23
an hour. But that's the whole hour. So if I
44:27
did it for twelve to one, then I did it
44:29
from one to two. It's still conducted. It's just not
44:32
conducted in your thirty minute span. As you say, I
44:35
didn't do the in between, but it's still conducted. You
44:37
see what I'm saying. Question No, Thomas, Okay, question, Because
44:43
you're talking about one to two, that's a whole hour,
44:46
and then we're not talking about within thirty minutes, Thomas.
44:50
But within the thirty minutes that's not doing it every
44:53
thirty minutes, It's like how it's supposed to be done.
44:55
But then if I did it twelve to one, it's
44:58
still conducted, but it's not conduct did the correct way.
45:01
A round is still conducted, but it's not conducted the
45:03
correct way. No question No, because Thomas, do you understand question? No,
45:09
I understand what you're saying. Because if you're saying you're
45:12
doing the round within an hour and you have to
45:14
document it one round every thirty minutes, so you can
45:17
only then fill out one of these blocks, which one
45:20
are you going to fill out? Or are you going
45:23
to do the same thing in an identical place twelve
45:25
oh nine? Thomas, Yeah, you just he gets cut off.
45:29
But at twelve thirty will there be identical blocks identical times? Thomas, Well,
45:36
that's up to the person question. But what you're saying
45:40
is that if you did it at twelve twenty five
45:42
and ended at twelve thirty five, that covered those thirty minutes. Thomas, No,
45:46
you still put that in the block question. You're saying
45:50
the start time and the end time he's cut off
45:53
by Thomas. No, you still put that in the one block.
45:56
If I did it from twelve to twenty five and
45:58
at twelve thirty I would still put that in one
46:01
block and then this next one whatever the time is,
46:04
like I said, twelve forty one and then twelve to
46:06
twelve forty two. Because remember, this is just a tier.
46:10
This is not the whole round. This is just a tier.
46:13
So what you're saying is this is twelve to one
46:17
to twelve ten. This is just one tier. G tier
46:21
question yep, Thomas. So then you've got twelve eleven to
46:24
twelve ten. Remember this is just one tier. Question. Sure,
46:28
each one of these different tier, Thomas. Each one's a
46:31
different tier. So it's taking a minute a tier question, right, Thomas.
46:36
So that's one tier, and then you've got another twelve
46:39
oh five to twelve indiscernible. That's just one tier. I'm
46:43
doing twelve forty five. So then the whole thing question, yeah, Thomas,
46:49
So now you have to get from twelve o five
46:51
to twelve twenty something is when that whole round was
46:54
done in a twenty minute span. Do you got me
46:58
or are you totally lost? I understand what you're saying.
47:01
You did it within the hour, Rodriguez, right, and your mark.
47:05
But here's the thing you're signing off or initially according
47:09
to the fact that you've done the count within the
47:11
time period. Is that right or wrong? Thomas? Yeah, she
47:15
initial that she did it between twelve oh nine and
47:17
twelve ten. Question no, no, let's forget about it. Just
47:21
talk about you, Thomas. Okay. Question when you do your rounds?
47:25
Mister Thomas, when I do my rounds, well, I haven't
47:28
done around in over two or something years. I do
47:31
my rounds at twelve to twelve ten, I mean twelve
47:34
o'clock to twelve thirty in that block. If I did
47:38
it the incorrect way, I did it from twelve, it's
47:41
still I got it in between that time. But I
47:44
still wrote twelve to twelve thirty, so twelve to one.
47:48
Question Okay, I can't he gets cut off by Thomas.
47:52
I don't even understand what your question is. Question no, No,
47:57
I'll come back to this another part. When do you
47:59
think these initials were put on? Thomas? I don't know
48:02
when she wrote it. I don't know when she did it.
48:05
Question when did these round sheets get submitted? Thomas at
48:08
the end of the day? Question at the end of
48:10
the day, Thomas, end of the whole work day, not
48:13
the end of every work period, every eight hours. Question.
48:17
You wouldn't happen to know if she went back and
48:19
sign these after Thomas, I wouldn't know. Question initial log Thomas,
48:25
Like I said, I lost track of Noel. Question. It
48:28
sounds like it may. It looks like if this is
48:31
what you're saying, that she did these rounds at six ten,
48:33
six eleven. What time Thomas, they're not in order? Question?
48:38
What time does breakfast get there? Thomas? Breakfast is no
48:41
standard time, especially not on the weekends. You're talking about
48:45
on a Saturday. Question, the last one she wrote was
48:48
six thirteen. You assume that she did it right before
48:51
you know you discovered Epstein, Thomas, could have been question,
48:56
that would be the assumption, Thomas, That would be the
48:59
assumption by the binder. I don't remember the time the
49:03
food cart came up? Question, but you didn't witness her
49:06
actually signing Thomas. No, I don't know when she put
49:10
her signature on that. Question. You don't remember like talking like, hey,
49:14
I'm going to grab the food cart. You take care
49:16
of the round sheets, Thomas. No question, all right, Just
49:21
so that the whole thing that we just talked about
49:23
isn't convoluted. What we talked about before, was that you've
49:27
done the majority of the counts and rounds, but not
49:30
all of them. Thomas. I usually just plan on doing
49:33
my rounds. Yeah, question, what's that Thomas? I'm usually spot
49:37
on with doing my rounds. Question. Well, when we talked
49:40
about it before, you said you weren't always Thomas, I'm
49:44
not perfect. Question, so we're appointing to specific ones, Thomas.
49:50
I can tell you he gets cut off. Where the rounds?
49:53
Thomas again cuts them off. That I wasn't perfect. Question? Right,
49:57
the rounds and counts that you've conducted, you believe that
50:00
you've conducted the majority of them, Thomas, I've done all
50:03
my rounds. Yes, question if you falsified some but not
50:08
a lot. When I say falsified, you wrote in that
50:10
you conducted them, but they weren't actually conducted. Thomas. No,
50:14
that's not what I'm saying. I wrote what I wrote
50:17
my rounds. Question for the count slips, we're saying, Thomas
50:22
cuts them off. Yeah, I think he gets cut off.
50:25
That wasn't the first Thomas again cuts him off. You're
50:29
talking about the counts. This is the rounds or the
50:31
count slips question? We're talking the indiscernible. Thomas, I said
50:37
I'm not. I said that I'm not perfect. Question, right, Thomas,
50:42
you know what I mean. I don't want to sit
50:43
up here that on one hundred percent perfect. What I'm
50:46
saying is that I did my rounds. I was usually
50:49
spot on with my rounds, and I'm doing what I'm
50:51
supposed to do as far as the course of my job. Question. Okay,
50:57
so you're saying that these anytime that you worked in
51:00
the shoe and you marked off, people have marked off
51:03
that you did them every thirty minutes. Thomas. I don't
51:06
know what people marked off. I only know what I
51:08
do when I usually I get my stuff done. Question.
51:12
So when you're in the shoe on all those overtime
51:14
shifts that we just showed you, you're doing rounds every
51:18
thirty minutes. Thomas. I can't say that I don't do
51:21
rounds every thirty minutes. Question. That's the question, Thomas. Okay,
51:25
I can't say that I did rounds every thirty minutes. No,
51:28
I can't say that I did the rounds every thirty minutes. Question.
51:32
So you're doing them most of the time, but some
51:35
of them are marked off when they weren't actually conducted, Thomas.
51:39
Maybe maybe question, Okay, And the same thing with the
51:43
count slips. You've done most of the count slips, Thomas
51:47
cuts them off. No, I usually get my counts done.
51:50
Usually I get my counts done. Question, But not all
51:53
of them. So if we go back and we find
51:55
some times you didn't do it, Thomas, you can go back,
51:59
he gets cut off. We're probably going to find if
52:02
we're reviewing video, Thomas, of the fourteen years, you may
52:06
have me one time where I didn't get one done. Question.
52:10
But even if we're just talking about like August or July,
52:13
if we go back and review those, we're going to
52:15
find at least a few that weren't conducted and that
52:18
we're written in. Is that correct, Thomas, I actually don't know.
52:22
I honestly don't know, question, because I thought we already
52:25
covered this, and you already said, Thomas, we did already
52:29
cover that. But I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Question.
52:33
I thought my understanding from the conversation was that, Yep,
52:37
there's count slips that I've created in the past, most
52:40
of them conducted, some of them aren't going, you know,
52:44
some of them, Yes, I just signed them and put
52:46
them the count number. But I you know, especially between
52:51
the hours of twelve am and five am, Thomas, that's
52:54
all my overtime right there, it's twelve am. He gets
52:58
cut off, right, That's what I'm saying, Thomas, except for
53:00
one day watch question, because there's that, so like, not
53:05
every twelve am, three am and five am count was
53:08
conducted during a shift, Thomas, I don't know. Question most
53:12
of them, but not all of them, Thomas. I don't
53:16
want to say. I want to say all, but honestly,
53:18
I don't know. I want to say all. I want
53:20
to say all, but then I'm not trying to get
53:22
caught up in a lie and say, oh no, this
53:24
one time that I didn't just do that. Question. I'm
53:28
just trying to reconcile what we talked about like two
53:31
hours ago, Thomas exactly question, because two hours ago Thomas
53:35
cuts them off. I said I wasn't perfect, and so
53:38
maybe I didn't get one done or not. I don't know.
53:41
Like I said, I'm not perfect, I didn't get maybe
53:43
I didn't get one of those, but I don't know.
53:45
That's exactly what I said two hours ago. Question. You
53:48
know my understanding was that you. Okay, so you're saying
53:51
that you believe actually your count slips are He gets
53:55
cut off by Thomas, I believe my count slips are good.
53:58
I believe they're good. Question. Okay, So when we go
54:00
back and review the video, we're going to see that
54:03
you were actually doing them, Thomas. You're going to see
54:06
that I get my accounts done. Yes. Question, and same
54:09
thing for your rounds, Thomas. You should see me get
54:12
most of my rounds done. Question. All right, because now
54:15
that you're saying this, we have to go back and
54:17
review those things. Question. I'll tell you that I'm saying
54:21
that I should have gotten most of my rounds, and
54:24
if I didn't get them all done, I'm not trying
54:26
to lie and say I didn't. Question. Can we go
54:30
outside for a minute, mister Mitchell ass redacted answers Absolutely.
54:35
We can take time out so they get back. All right.
54:40
The recorder is back on. It's currently two eighteen pm
54:44
on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one. Again everyone is present,
54:48
aside from I don't believe the other attorney is on
54:50
the phone right now, and mister Thomas, I remind you
54:53
again this is voluntary and you are under oath. Is
54:56
there anything that you would like to add with regard
54:59
to the rounds the counts that you have conducted and
55:01
certified in the past prior to August tenth, twenty nineteen,
55:05
Thomas that I have not completed all my rounds. That's it.
55:09
Question What about your accounts in the count's slips? Question
55:13
or to answer, I have not completed all my accounts.
55:15
Question all right, So in the past, prior to August tenth,
55:19
twenty nineteen, there are times that you were in the
55:22
shoe that you didn't conduct all of your accounts, but
55:24
you did certify that they were conducted. Is that correct? Thomas? Yes,
55:28
question all right. The same thing for the rounds. And
55:32
there are times that you certified on the round sheets
55:34
that they were conducted, but they were or you or
55:37
the person that you were working with certified they were
55:40
conducted when they were in fact not conducted. Thomas, yes. Question.
55:44
And I know you were saying like before like estimates,
55:47
but like how often would that happen? Thomas, I really
55:50
couldn't tell you. Question Was it a regular occurrence? Thomas,
55:54
I really don't know. Question No, But did it happen
55:56
in the past? Thomas yes. Question, but you're sure you're
56:00
not sure how often? Thomas, yes, question. Okay. Would you
56:05
like to follow up with additional questioning on that question
56:09
from another redacted investigator? During those times when you didn't
56:13
commit conduct the rounds or the counts? Was it only
56:16
with toa Nova? Toell Nova, I mean Tova Noel Thomas,
56:21
I don't remember if I worked with her before or not. Question? Okay.
56:26
Which other CEOs were you working with when this incident happened? Thomas,
56:30
I've been there for fourteen years. I can't remember exactly who.
56:33
I really don't know who I worked with at the time. Question,
56:38
so this has a span over fourteen years? Thomas No,
56:41
I don't know. I don't know when this happened or not. Question. Okay,
56:44
that's all question. Okay, anything else you want to add
56:47
Thomas No, not at all. Question any further clarification Thomas, no,
56:53
thank you. Question Okay, it's fairly again, you can and
56:57
you may. Thomas, it's no problem. I'm okay. Is there
57:01
anything you want to add to this specific instance? Thomas no,
57:04
I don't question. Is there a certain belief that you
57:07
have as to why Jeffrey Epstein got into the place
57:10
that he was. Is there any reason why you think
57:12
that occurred? Thomas, I can't speak for any of that.
57:15
No question. No, okay, And you're sure that we want
57:18
to conclude this question yes, question so we don't have
57:23
to revisit anything later on in the date. Anything you
57:26
can think of? Answer nothing yet, another redacted person. You're
57:32
the case agent, so I want to make sure. Question
57:35
that's it? Nothing because we cover pretty much everything. Thomas,
57:39
No problem. I'm here whenever you all need me again.
57:43
Question all right, let me just do a quick review
57:45
and make sure that we're good and hopefully this can
57:48
be it. All right? Are you confident with all of
57:50
your answers? Again, knowing that you're under oath, there's nothing
57:54
that you want to clarify before we end this. This
57:56
would be the time to do that. Thomas, No, sir, question,
58:00
No additional information, Thomas nope. Question No questions that we're
58:05
missing that we should ask Thomas, nope. Question All right,
58:09
this is senior agent redacted. It's currently to twenty one
58:13
on June seventeenth, twenty twenty one, and I'm turning off
58:16
the recorder. All right, folks, there you have it. The
58:19
full deposition of Michael Thomas after he was questioned by
58:23
the OIG Inspectors in the wake of Jeffrey Epstein's death.
58:30
All the information that goes with this episode can be
58:32
found in the description box.