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Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs with Jack O'Brien · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands? Do they have in individualism the patriarchy? Zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: name is Caitlin, and this is our podcast where we
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: talk about how women are represented in film, and wouldn't
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: you know women are not often represented very well? No kidding,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: g whiz wow. That's why we have to do this
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: podcast to shame all these freaking idiots in Hollywood. It's
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: weird because everyone who's in my inbox and dams are
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: constantly so nice and respectful that I forget that people
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: actually hate women and want them to die, right, You know,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: It's true. It is easy to forget. I'm often highly
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: respected in the community hot Break, so I sometimes forget
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that generally don't respect women so well. Anyway. So this
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is the Bechtel Cast. We talk about movies and how
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: they portray women. We use the Bactel test just sort
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: of like a measuring stick, a yard stick. We don't
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: only talk about whether or not a movie passes a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Bectel test. It's so much more would be funny if
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: it was though for just for no, if this is
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: like this is called snow white, and then we'd be
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: like no, and then that's the could just be a list.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: So the Bechtel test, by our standards, has to be
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: two female characters talking. They both have to have names,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: they have to be talking about something other than a
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: man for a total of two wines. Can this movie
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: do it? Let's find out. Yeah, but first we've all
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: kinds of stuff to do. We have to introduce our
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: guests some sex it first and foremost. He is the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: head of comedy at the House Stuff Works podcast network
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and the co host of the Daily Zeitgeist on that network.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien, guys, Hi, thanks for haven't made certainly exciting.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. Where oh where zy Guy's heads?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So Jack and I have both won Golden Globes last night. Congratulations. Yeah,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I know you're saying you're highly respected, but do you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: have a Golden Globe? I certainly don't. Okay, well, I
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: have to the university for Santi University. We won Best
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Drama and Best Comedy Music. Amazingly. Yeah, it was a
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: real incredible barn Burner of a night Us and Gary
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Oldman big winners. Have you talked about Santa University on
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: this podcast. I don't know that I have. I think briefly,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what episode was recently, it does, but
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Santa University does pass the back tole test. There's a
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: whole scene decades there's a whole scene where the two
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: characters just say, and now we passed back to it. Yeah,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that's good, incredible, useful. So Jack, you have brought us
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: snow White in the Seven Dwarfs. I have. I bring
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: it before you because I think it's an important feminist text. No,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of problems that I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: have with Disney and Disney culture, like this is the
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: thesis statement for how Disney wanted to portray women, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: like Disney princesses, she is the archetypal Disney princess. I
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: just feel like it's a very influential film in terms
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: of creating the archetype of Disney princess. And they're just
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: some really weird things that happened in this movie that repeatedly,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, I also like really like Disney's artwork
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and stuff and I can see how it would have
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: like blown people's minds because this was like before they
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: had full length animated movies with color animation. This really
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was the Avatar of its day, and it's beautiful. It
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: sucks that it's so fucking boring boring. There's something also
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: extremely annoying and completely nonsensical, like it's there farce. It
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: still get me though some parts. Well when did you
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: forst see this film? It's one of those movies I
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: don't remember seeing, I think, but it must have been
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: like before I was properly storing memories, so like, okay,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: so from three yeah, they're abouts. Yeah. Same. I grew
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: up with this movie. I've seen it probably a dozen
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: times from ages five to twelve or so, and then
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I hadn't rewatched it as an adult until yesterday. And wow,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: it's quite different from what I remember as a child.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: It really it's weird. I couldn't even get I was like,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: this is just fucking bizarre in so many ways. This
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: is the first movie I ever remember seeing which is
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: not good. If like the first example of like, wow,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: this is the guy. It's like the Prince is just
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a guy in sweatpants who's scales biker biker pants that
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: just like tight tight pants. He fucking hops a wall
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and is first words or did I scare you? And
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: they're just like like the prime of manhood. Yeah, so
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I think that that explains the very choice I've ever made. Sure, well,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Jack. You were saying how influential
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: it was, and the three of us grew up with
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: this movie. You saw it a ton as children, and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: it shaped our worldview to some degree subconscious yeah, and
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: made us think that, like, oh, this is how romance
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: should be. This is what she we should strive for,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: either as a man lining himself to Prince Charming or
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a woman being like, oh I have to be all
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: passive and annoying like snow white, like so passive to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the point that she, like her big actions in the movie,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: like where she saves herself are all done. Well, she's asleep.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: They just they have to incapacitate her for her not
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: to fund things up. And she's still not the least
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: active Disney princess because there is the one that yeah,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: well Disney clearly had a like I don't know, cosby
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: ish thing, because she was if you just saw this
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: movie enough times you would probably be like, oh, I
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: bet Disney has a weird thing for sleeping women. And
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: then it's like one of his next movies was Sleeping Beauty,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: which I haven't seen nearly as much. Like the Disney
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: movies that I know best are this one and then Aladdin,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Lion King, Beauty and the Beast exactly. Yeah. So there's
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: like the Cinderella and the in the Sleeping Beauties and
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that some of the older ones from like the fifties, sixties, seventies,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know as well. There wasn't that much going
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: on then, but there's like the it's weird. The Disney
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Renaissance princesses started this whole new thing where it's like, oh,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it's not like the princesses your mom grew up with,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: because these princesses have one thing about them that is
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the thing that they do, such as Bell who can
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: read read and there's that weird though the whole town
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: like burn her she's a witch because she likes books.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: There's the whole song where they're like, man, even though
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: she can read, I'd still have sex with her. Whole
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: song also the last time, Okay, and then we'll get
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: into snow it. But the last time I saw Beautying
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the Beast, you know, there's like that mob at the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: end that they're going for the beast. The mob literally says,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: we fear what we don't understand. They're like the most
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: self aware mob of all times. Like a line in
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: their song it's like, well then hold hold on, yeah,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: maybe stop for a second and educate yourself on the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: thing that you don't understand. And he was like, you know,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: so if you ever find yourself saying we fear, well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: we don't understand, just take a second. So, well, it's
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: okay to get to snow. In the Seven Doors, there's
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a line in the Dwarf song where they're like, we
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: don't know why we do this job? Why do we do?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: We don't know? They just he doesn't care about plot. No,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: they certainly, at least not in this movie. So speaking
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: up plot, I'll go over it. In my Caitlin's famous
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: recap White the Seven Dwarfs, we meet the Queen first Evil.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: So the first word in the movie is not good.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: We're like, which is what she is calling her mirror
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: right on the wall. Yes, okay, yeah, possibly a queer icon. Possibly,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: let's not rule out that theor so it's uh. We
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: first meet this evil queen who consults this magic mirror
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  Speaker 1: on the wall every day and says, who is the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: fairest of them all? Basically saying, am I the hottest?
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  Speaker 1: And every day does he say? Every day? Yes? Until
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  Speaker 1: one day the mirrors like, actually, your stepdaughter, snow White
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  Speaker 1: is the fairest of them all. And the evil queens like, well,
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  Speaker 1: I better have her killed then, because she's so vain
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  Speaker 1: and so petty that she cannot live with the idea
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  Speaker 1: of knowing that she's not the hottest in all of
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  Speaker 1: her kingdom. She says, a lash for her. It's like
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: an absolute monarchy where power is just determined and by
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: how pretty you are, Like, that's what rules the land
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: is just prettiness And she's like, well, now somebody's prettier.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I got to take him down. Yeah, the rules of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: this kingdom. It's very confusing because the queen dies and
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: snow White does, and there is a whole year that passes.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: We have no idea who is in charge, are there police,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: are there people? And we don't know, we don't know.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Chaos And to give you an idea of how white
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: this movie is part of the Queen's motivation for killing
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: snow White is that snow White is whiter than her. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they celebrate her whiteness to an insane degree. Snow white
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  Speaker 1: skin is coveted so much, to the point where her
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: name is snow White, Like it's so and it's just
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: fucking weird. It's just weird. That classic movie starts like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: she's anyone whiter than me, so weird. So she basically
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: commissions a huntsman to go out and murder snow White,
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  Speaker 1: and he is about to do it, but then he
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: looks at how beautiful she is and he's like, actually,
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  Speaker 1: I cannot kill you. You're too hot. The hunt's been creepy, ugly,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: almost like on purpose, I would I would assume he's
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: got bangs. Why does he have bangs? Anyway, So he
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: goes to kills no White and he's like, actually, I can't.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: You should run away because the queen wants you dead.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So she runs off. She's terrified. She gets clawed at
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: by some trees and then she collapses in the middle
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: of the woods and then all these woodland critters come
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, we'll show you where to live,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and they take her to the house of the Seven Dwarfs,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and she goes up to the door and she knocks
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: on it. No one answers, and she's like, oh, I
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: guess no one tell him find a trespass. Better just
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: go in. And in her defense, she's hot, right exactly,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: so they would have they would have been fine with
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: it because she's hot. So she goes in and she
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: realizes that it's dirty. So she's like, I better do
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the only thing that I know how to do, which
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: is to clean, because I didn't mention that the evil stepmother,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the queen, even though she is like the guardian of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: this young woman, she's like, actually, you're gonna be my
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: servant and you're just gonna clean, and I'm gonna dress
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you in rags and you're not going to be a
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: princess really at all? Right, Snow also snow why she
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't state any motivation or intent about anything except for
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: like remaining alive until like an hour in the movie,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and that's when she tells the Dwarfs she would like
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to get married. Please, Yes, you're just like Jesus Christ.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So she is, I think we can all agree a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: feminist icon. So she cleans the Dwarf's house and then
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: they come home and they're like who are you and
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: she's like, I'm snow White, and they're like, oh, the princess, Okay,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you can stay. Especially, she steals the deal by saying, yeah,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I'll cook you some gooseberry pies and they're like, great,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: you're in helliot. Cook and clean her two superpowers. Being
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: pretty wealthy, right, The doors are also like, oh she hot. Yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I really like her. They're literally about to pick ax
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: her to death. They have their pick axes raised in
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: their over her sleeping form, and then she like rolls
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: over and they're like, whoa, she's pretty better. Let her
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: be our mommy there. I also would like to start
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: a petition to rename the Dwarf named Bashful Horny, because
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that's what he is every single time, because like, he's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: not shy, he's just like horny, like that's his thing.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But they're all pretty horny. They're all horny, but especially
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: is also extremely horny. Dope is chaotic evil. It's straight
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: up a scary character because there's that part where you're
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: like what are they going for with dope? And then
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: they're like snow It's like can dope talk, and one
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of them is like, we don't know, he's never tried topy,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: just like I was like, oh cool, and we got
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: mediocrity firing on all cylinders here. He's never dried so
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: many lines like why completely hairless? Like he looks very unhealthy,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: like like somebody who has like a drug or do
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you guys know the band the Pogues Irish Run and
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: their lead singer is like aggressively alcoholic and like to
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the point that like his teeth have started falling out
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and like his face has no color. And I was like,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that's dopy. That's kind of what Dopey looks like, because
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the rest of the Dwarves are all old looking men
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: with like long white beards, and then there's just like
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Dopey a child I don't know. He's also very old
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: but very smooth. And when the music scene started, I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: forgot who like played what in the music scene, But
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the second it started, I was like, oh, for sure
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: he's the drummer. Yeah, yeah, true, because Grumpy plays the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: organ sure, and it is also a libertarian. Grumpy is
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: not a feminist icon. Grumpy wants us to all owned plows.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: He's weird, so those are two of the dwarves. The
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: other ones are doc happy, sleepy, bashful, sneezy, and they're
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: all horny. What did I get them all bashful? Oh?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote soapy? What do I mean? Dope? Okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I just wrote it. But at one point Dope does
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: swallow a bar of so and he becomes pretty soapy.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I was not wrong. There's a seven minute scene where
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: they're just washing their hands. Stupid. It's stupid because Okay,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I love this movie as a kid, but now I
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: hate it so much as I think it's such trash.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I think that part of the reason this movie is
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: fun for kids to watch is it's like you can
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: tell that Disney was only doing these long cartoons before,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: because you can break this movie into like five segments
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: where it's just like a series of visual jokes and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: no story. So it's like, all, I get that, Like
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: kids want to watch animals wash stuff. I don't even
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: know that that's true, but there, I mean, it was
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: seven who knew what children found entertaining. They were all
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: playing with like I need to watch Like, yeah, there's
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: so many like extended scenes where we just see them
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: mining diamonds or washing their faces. For the first time
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: in their lives. Can we okay, can we talk about
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the face washing scene, because the dwarf logic also is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: nuts o where they work in a mind, they seem
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to have a lot of money, they're dithering a lot
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: of wealth. Why don't they live in separate houses? Yeah,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I mean you can assume that they're mining these precious
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: jewels too then turn into capital. Well as they stay
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: in the in the song, they don't know why they
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: have that job, and they don't know what they're doing,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: but they're all fucking each other, right right, definitely? Yeah,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: in those little baby beds. Why are they all pushed together?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: They live in a one bedroom cottage and they're all
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: seven beds are in one bedroom. Okay, so the rest
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of the story, I'll just get through the rest of Sorry.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So they agree to let her stay, but they're like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: be careful because the queen she's coming to get you.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: The next day, they go off to work and they're like,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: don't let any strangers in. So the first thing that
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: happens after that is that a stranger comes because the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: queen has been concocting this plan to kill snow Why
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: because she finds out that the huntsman did not in
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: fact murder her like she thought she used mummy dust.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Did you see that does? So she is also a witch.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: The Queen is a witch. She's also a woman in
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: stem because she has her own lab. She has the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: queen because she has both a murder dungeon. And she
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: chooses to go and like secretly slip this poisoned apple
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to snow Why she chooses the unassuming disguise of like
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a wild eyed witch like crazy, yeah, So she like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: uses magic to poison this apple that's going to induce
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the slee being death, which is this curse that won't
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: kill her, but we'll make it look like she's dead.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So she's just hoping the little her body doesn't rot, right, Yeah,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: got it. So she's not actually dead, but as far
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: as the dwarf Snow, she is, but they just I'll
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: get there. So she poisons the apple. She uses magic
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: to transform her appearance into this like old hag lady.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: She approaches snow White and the first thing snow White
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: does after being told don't let any strangers in the house,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, come in, I'm just making some pies.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: And the Queen in this disguise is like, here, use
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: this apple. It's a wishing apple and it will make
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: all your dreams come true. So snow White is like, yeah,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I wish for my Prince Charming to come and carry
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: me away into his castle. And then she takes it
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: by the apple and instantly falls into the sleeping death.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And then the dwarfs find out about this because all
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the woodland critters, her best friends, the story for sure. Yeah,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: they go and basically tell the Dwarfs what happened. So
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they come back. They chase the queen up a hill,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: she falls off of it and dies. She gets struck
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: by lightning, falls off a cliff, A boulder falls on
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: top of her, and then her pulverized body. It is
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: made abundantly clear by a shot of two vultures that
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the two vultures are then going down to consume her remains.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: It's like Jesus Christ, which is another Disney trend we
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: see later of just like gruesome, horrifying deaths of but
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: almost always falling off yea, because you can't show in
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: a Disney movie like a grizzly murder, so they have
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to fall. How many Gaston falls off a cliff fast
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: falls off a cliff yes, huh, doesn't a character and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Hunchback of Rolo falls off a cliff, Well, not a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: cliff off, he falls off a church into a fire pit.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: To be fair, he also sings a whole song about
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: wanting to rape and murder the female protagonist of the movie.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: That movie, It's Dark. I've only seen it once years ago,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. It's very good, but it's very it's
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be seen by children. It's very weird. Okay. So
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: then the dwarfs mourn snow White, who they think is dead,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: but they're like, well, she's too beautiful to bury in
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the ground. Let's just build a glass coffin and put
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: her in there. And then like a year passes and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: she's still just lying there, all hot and dead looking.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: And then the plants, who has nothing to do, wonders,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it's you just like roaming around like knowing one song
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: for a whole year, bananas. So he comes and finds
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: snow White and her dead looking body, and he's like, well,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: better kisser, and then it breaks the because that was
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the one antidote to this curse. It is like true
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: love's first kiss or whatever, right, guy and Sweatpants makes
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: out with your corpse. Congrats baby, your royalty. There's something
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: weird about the year that they just kind of yat
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: yauta past where the dwarfs have her dead body just
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: laying in a glass coffin and they're just staring at her.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah that all they did, just stared at her. They're
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: mining job just yeah, the old in front of her
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: for a year. And then a guy rolls up who
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: they've never seen before, and they're like, you want to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: crack at her just like he did. They open the
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: coffin for him. They must, because it's like at one
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: point there's like a glass top to the coffin, and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: then a dude rides up on a horse like singing
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: this crappy song and they're like, okay, have at her.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Like that's literally like the like the Prince, I feel
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: like it is on the verge of like doing a
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: little shot gun and pulling out a vape pen for
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: like every time he's just like, hey, what's up, Like
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: he just pops up out of nowhere. Where's his kingdom?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Why he's not busy? No, he's Jesus. Because at the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: end they're like walking off and then like there's like
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: a big castle in the sky, like there, I forgot
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: about that. So it's like taxi driver in the sense
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: that it might just be in her mind and that
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: this is her dying or or like in the end
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of Titanic where she dies. No, she's just asleep and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: she has a dream. She does not die. Well, I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: can't believe you just went back on your own Titanic.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I know, I meant I misspoke. She's just dreaming. She didn't.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: She has a dream about Sad. It's yeah, there's that.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: And also it's made clear or I thought it was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: when the prince is like corpse back to life. Great news.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Time to get married. But it's clear that she's never
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: going to see the dwarves again for some reason, because
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: she has to say goodbye to all of them. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, because, I mean, I guess in seven
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: this is probably true. Marriage is a prison and you
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: will not see anyone ever. He will not be allowed outside.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: He picks her up, Jesus picks her up out of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the coffin and uh like just throws her on his
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: horse like some like thing he just bought. And well,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: her muscles have probably atrophied. She's been dead for she
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: cannot walk. She covered in her own filth. Snow White
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: has less than no interest in what happened to her,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and she's not like, wait a second, what happened to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that old lady. From her point of view, she just
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: ate the apple, the wishing apple wished that this guy
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: would come, and then woke up and then instantly was
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: her wish came true that which is like her hero. Also,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: snow White in theory, shouldn't she like care who's in
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: charge of the kingdom? She was the because like she
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: starts royal in this movie and gets royal by the end,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: but like she's in theory, is supposed to care, right like,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: but who is in charge? There is some power structure
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: there because at one point she says her name, and
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: all the doors are like the princess, like the famous.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So there must be like some sort of roll besides
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: just laying down and being kissed for her to fulfill.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But of course we do not see that in the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: movie Cooking and Cleaning. Maybe the maybe the mirror is
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: in charge. Previously my job was saying who's hot and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: who's not? Right now, I am her leader. God, so
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: that's the story of snow White. I have a lot
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: of thoughts about the movie. Where shall we start? Oh gosh, well,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you can sort of just boil the story down to
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the narrative being a woman so petty that she has
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to have the hotter person than her murdered. So that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't send good feminist vibes a little bit, just a
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: smidge of woman and woman hatred just a bit me. Yeah, Jamie,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Actually you probably don't know this, but I have tried
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to have you killed because your mirror is talking to
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: you again. But he did tell me to make some
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: calls if that started. Yeah, I should go to my therapist.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Get this checked out. That's that is so good that
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: she's just like, well, if a piece of glass says
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that my teenage stepdaughter, who I'm enslaving is hot, she
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: simply must go. She's gotta die. Sorry. Okay, So snow
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: White's introduction in the movie is her singing about her
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: one true love, her Prince Charming, who she has not
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: yet met. She's just waiting around, waiting around, waiting to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: be found and wooed by a Prince Charming. Right then,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Prince Charming does show up because he hears a pretty voice. Yeah,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: we can't just say. He shows up. He scales a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: wall and sweatpants and then frightens her and he's like, oh,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: did I scare you? And then she runs into a castle.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: But then the kind of have a song together. They're
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: sort of singing at each other, and this is like
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: kind of I feel like something that comes up again
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: again into movies where it's like she's scared, but don't worry,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: she's also extremely horny. I'm just like, by scaring a woman,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: she's yours daddy out Like it's very weird because she's
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: actively hiding from him. And I think that we're supposed
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to think that's partially because she doesn't have a nice
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: dress or something like she's embarrassed that she's hiding. She
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: straightening out her dress and stuff, or maybe she's feeling herself.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: She's so horny that this guy launched himself over a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: wall and was like, are you scared? Regardless of the
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: message is that guys, girls want you to scale their
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: wall and scare them when they run away, they're probably
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: already in love with you, and then go to them
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: while they're asleep and just pick them up and take
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: them with you. Also, his song sucks, dude. His song
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: is so song that Scott Watts song. Everyone in this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: movie it sounds like they're not high school production. It's not.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: It's very annoying to listen to. Snow White is so
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: prow knowing out that her voice is. She sounds like
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Betty Boop. I totally forgot how like high pitched and
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: like cartoonishly squeaky, and like kind of Mickey Mousey too,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, well that's my interesting. Shitty man all the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: time will use the excuse of a woman having a
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: shrill voice as a reason not to listen to her,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to take her seriously. So I don't want to sound
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: like I'm doing that. But my god, her voice is
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: so shrill and awful that all the blood vessels in
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: my brain did burst while I was watching this movie.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of the early Disney process has had
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: like those like operatic voices, and then you hit Cinderella
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and then it's like, all of a sudden, Cinderella has
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: like a husky, little fun voice. It's like snow Ie.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: It's bad not to detract from the cost but she
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: is hard to listen to. She end a bit, but
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So this scene where she's like falling in love with
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Prince Charming even though he's actively invading her space and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: scaring her, it was working because she's falling in love
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: with him even though they don't talk. They don't actualge
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: any words except for just like being like I'm looking
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: for my Prince Charming and he was like, one day
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I'll find a beautiful princess, but like to know each other.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So they're in love all of a sudden, but that's
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: not clear until she tells the Dwarfs that like she
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: found her true love, because there's nothing about the interaction
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that would suggest that like he had done anything to
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: impress her. All he did was make her run away
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and then like an hour and she's like, yeah, I
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: am in love with this one guy. Really, all that
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: thing does is established HER's like just like this very delicate,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: timid little girl, and we're supposed to be a little girl.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: It's good, Yeah, I mean, isn't that like that's why
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: she becomes the fairest in the land, because she comes
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: of age or something like that. I think that's what
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: we're meant to assume. The mirror is like snow White
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: got her period less and now you are ugly. She's
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: also season on snow I had forgotten that snow White
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: is like land aquaman. She can just like control all
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: the animals of the forest, like just they're all just
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: going around her and helping her with stuff, which is
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a pretty cool power, and it's just totally squandered on her.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: She don't wants to do boring stuff with it, yeah,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: like clean a house and cook. But then when they're
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: trying to like warn her away from a poison apple,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: she's like, God, why are you guys being such assholes today?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: She's like, old witch, let me eat this apple. Snow
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: White does tell a bird to smile, so she's not
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: a feminist. Hey, sad bird, you look prettier when you smiled.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Another logic question. The huntsman who is supposed to kill
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: snow White and then doesn't, is like, get out of here,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: and then she snow is offer as she's like everything
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: is scary to me, and then we see like it's
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a beautiful animated sequence of her being afraid of the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: four but then it's like it appears to be the
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: next day, were she just thrashing around the forest all
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: damn night, like like and then it turns out nothing
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: was scary the whole time, and then she's like, hey,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: birds should smile. Well yeah, I mean she has a
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: near death experience. There's like this kind of surreal sequence
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: where she's running through the woods and the trees look
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: like they have faces and they're grabbing at her. And
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of course, I mean and it would make sense that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: she is having a reaction like this because again she
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: was nearly just murdered. Yeah, but it does seem like
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: she just passes out for the whole night in the woods. Yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: her fight or flight is not good. She really couldn't
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: make a call. She's like, let they just play dead.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Actually there is a third its foreshadow of what happens later.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: But it is almost like she has the opposite of
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: agency as a character. Like when she is incapacitated, good
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: things happened to her, But anytime she acts like proactively
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: in the story, she's just suck herself. Yeah. She runs
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: into the forest and like runs around until she passes out,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: run into a pile of haro. Like what what does
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: she It's her hallucinations? Yeah, yeah, I mean, in what
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: would actually happen if you passed out in a forest?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: For a night. Is like the animals would come and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: eat the soft meat of your face, but because she's
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: so pretty when she's passed out, they again or just like,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: oh you're too pretty to eat there, and then also
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: snow way when she comes to in the forest after
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: her wild night, she comes and she immediately apologizes to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the animals. She's like, I made such a fush. She's like,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: so ashamed of the mess I've made, yea, and they're like,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: don't worry about it, but that was pretty embarrassed. So well, okay,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: So so she is the protagonist of this story, but Jack,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: You're right, she does almost nothing. She's so inactive. She
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: has so little agency. In fact, the only choices I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: think that she really actively makes to do anything in
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the story to run into the woods away from that,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: but only because he told her to run that way,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: and she's like, you listen to the person who was
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: about to kill you, of like, hey, you know what
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: you should do it? Like right, So she does that,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and then she the next tree. She makes this to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: go into the dwarf's house, which she doesn't even find,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Like it would be one thing if she was looking
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: around like, oh, what do I do let me like
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: try to, but yeah, the animals are just like here,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: here's a house, leap here, and then she just goes in.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And then the next bed decision, by the way, just
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: find a house in the woods, just break in and
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: be like I'm gonna pass out in their beds, like
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: assume they'll be cool with it. Like getting pick ax
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to death is what you would expect. Yeah, and it
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: almost happens, but she's too hot to Thank god, she's
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: so hot. There she does choose to run away from
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the prince who she's in love with. That she says,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: she makes the choice to be scared by a man
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: doing something scary. I don't even that's more of a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: just a reaction, right, really she did something, she did
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: something just given her credit foray and hide her disgusting
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: self from the love of her life because she's not
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: made up and pretty yeah, embarrassing. And then the next
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: choice she makes is to clean the dwarf's house. And
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: then pretty much the next active choice she makes after
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that is a while later in the movie when she
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: eats the apple that the queen gives her. It's fun.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: The end sequence of this movie is a wild chase
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: to save snow White because she is literally too dumb.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Like that is the whole Like the animals are like,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: oh no, she's dumb. She's dumb. What do we do?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Get apple? And so they run to get the dwarves
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: and then the dwarves figure it out. They're like, oh no,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: she's too dumb, we gotta go and and they're right,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: she's too dumb. It's it's very frustrating there. It's like
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this relay race to stop snow White from doing anything
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: because whenever she does something, she almost kills herself. That's
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: the explicit message of the movie is if you are active,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: if you make decisions for yourself, you will kill yourself.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But if you just sit back and like pray for
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: something to happen or pass out and just sleep it off,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: like then things will work out in your favor. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: it's like brainwashing people and specifically children young women to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: be like as passive as possible. Well, and then on
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the other side of that is like the Queen is
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: always making active choices and it's just totally demonizes a
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: woman doing anything. It's like, well, if she's doing something,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it's probably going to be fucked up and evil, like
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: because the queen pretty much only makes active choices, and
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: they're always destructive to this character that we're supposed to love.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So it's like you're getting it from both sides, right,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Because as the protagonist of any story, we're supposed to
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: see them encountering obstacles and doing things to try to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: overcome those obstacles and make active choices in the story.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: But we see almost none of that in Snow White.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: And I think because she is a woman in this movie,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and sure, this is you know, this is decades ago.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Its seven that this movie comes out. It's a whole
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: generations ago of an era. Like you know, it's no
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: mo Wanna thinks have changed a lot since then, But
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: young kids were consuming this and and still do and
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: still do. And seeing like other movies of this same
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: era where there's a male hero, we did see them
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: make active choices because they were like swashbucklers and like
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: you know, all these like adventure stories. But because this
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: is a female protagonist in this movie, I think a
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: deliberate choice was made. And of course it was adapted
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: from something material. Let's make a ten minute long story
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: that's bad women and eighty minute long story, right, they
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: in an adaptation, you can make choices to change the
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: source material. But yeah, they just made this very passive
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: female character which sends a message like, yeah, women shouldn't
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: be doing things woodmen shouldn't have any agency, and if
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: they're doing things, they're bad. They're making mistakes. Yeah, and
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it's bad. Yeah. I think they did make a lot
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: of changes to the story from when it was a
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: fairy tale, but like all arbitrary and none like in
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the intry, it was all just to simplify it. In
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the fairy tale, I wonder if the dwarves knew. We
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: find out they've never taken a bath before, and then
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: there's a ten minute sequence of them washing them. So
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: it's hardly In the movie, it's mostly the dwarfs dock ship.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I wanted to get to that too, because
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: there's like all the extended animated bits are either animals
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: or dwarves. There's like the animation problem that still exists
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: right now of like all the male characters look different
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: and look like cartoons and have like a lot of
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: different features, and the female characters, i mean, snow White
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and the Queen basically have the same face. Like there's
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: very little difference between their faces, so that's infuriating. But
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the dwarves don't know what water is. They also we
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: see them walking over a body of water on their
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: way back from work. But snow it's like, hey, you
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: have to wash your face or I'm not gonna give
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you soup, and they're like, okay, it seems reasonable, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: and then one of them is like what is this
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: and then they learn how to wash their face and
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: grumpy the libertarian ten minutes long. It's so stupid, And yeah,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: they don't know how to feed them, Like what were
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: they going to eat if she didn't make food for them?
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Be because they're just like so amazed that she's willing
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to make food for them. How do they not know
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: what water is? But they do know how to build
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: a glass coffin and throw a Christian funeral. It doesn't
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: make any sense, it's just And then to your point
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: about she and the Queen look like actual female forms,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: not necessarily super realistical, though more realistic than in later
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Disney movies like Jasmine, with like a tiny, tiny waist
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: kind of thing in Aladdin, right proportionally better better, but
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: not great better. She looks like a mature female form,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: whereas the Dwarfs all look like I mean, well, that's
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: a whole other thing, which is like, how insensitive is
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: this movie to little people? Probably just as insensitive as
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz is. Yeah, not good, right, not good?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: But but just speaking from like how the male and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: female characters are animated. We were talking about this in
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: our Hot Roundabout plug for our Patreon bonus episode about Ghostbusters.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: How all the ghosts in the Ghostbusters, if they're male,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: they look different, and you've got a slim er in there.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: And but then the one female ghost you see is
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: literally a hot woman, but you can see through her. Yeah,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: same thing in Casper. Not good, that's really transparent swish
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: point for Jecko. Yeah, and I think this movie is
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: important in the precedent. It's like Little Mermaid. Even though
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Ariel has, you know, her own interests and she makes
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: active decisions, there's still weird stuff like the prince falls
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: in love with her when she can't speak, and like,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's a holdover from this where people
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: only fall in love with characters when they're asleep, where
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: people like them better when they're asleep. So it's like
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: seem not heard clean cook and you know, don't make
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: any rash decisions. Yeah, it's like it's only possible to
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: fall in love with the woman when it's literally physically
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: impossible to get to know her right there, right it's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: physically impossible for her to resist, like because she's unconscious.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Well it snow way. I want to talk about the
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: scene where she we find out that she wants something
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: in life for the first time, when the dwarves are like,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: telling us a story, please, even though they're seventy and
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: need to relax. They're like, we're babies, creepy. But she said, okay,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a story. And she describes the prince
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: somehow without using the word sweatpants, which is but she
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: she says, anyone could see he was charming, even though
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: we've she's barely seen him. They don't know each other
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: at all. It's the same thing where a woman and
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: a man fall in love in these very hetero fucking
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: love stories, where they just fall in love because they're
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: near each other. They haven't gotten to know each other
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: at all. They're a bang up couple. They're not cute.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: They're not cute. It's bad. They look like siblings. And
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: then and then one of the dwarves interjections like did
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: he steal a kiss? I was like, ah, man, come on,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and she's like, no, bunny, we and and then she's
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and then she screams at them or as that's how
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: snow it sings. She just like everyone's like, oh, that
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: was so pretty. Sleep in our beds please. I want
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: to talk more about the all the domestic chores that
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: she does, because it's basically, as far as we know,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the only skills she has to offer in the movie,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: apart from her sort of supernatural ability to communicate with
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: and control animals. But realistically, all we really see her
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: do is cook and clean. So that's the only thing
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the audience really knows about her in terms of what
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: she's able to do. And not that there's anything wrong
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: with domestic chores. I do them all the time. I
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: wash some dishes earlier today, please drag. But like the
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: thing is, when society has historically seen women as people
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: who can only do domestic chores and should be barefoot
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: in the kitchen, this movie just reinforces that that's what
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: female characters only can do and should be doing. I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: also think that the insane set up of when the
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Queen comes in the disguise of an ugly old poor person,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: shows up at her house. Snow White is singing about
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: how she wants a boyfriend making pots for these geriatrical
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: creeps that she takes care of. And it's only known
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: for her, I think a day a day. Why are
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: they more in her for a year because she's hot.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: She's so hot. She's so hot. We only knew her
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: for a day. But god damn it if she wasn't
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: very hot. Yeah, she's taken from one place where she's
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: like seen cleaning and is basically safe there, and then
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: she's out in the woods like running by herself, and
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: that scene is very dangerous. Then she arrives at this
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: other house where she can like cook and clean and
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: she's safe, and then like is put in a coma.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: But then the prince like picks her up to take
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: her off to first really carries her. She cannot even
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: walk her own legs, and well then the queen. What
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I detail of the story I forgot was when the
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: queen does show or the whatever, the witch shows up
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: with the little apple that she like temps snow White,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: not I I just remember Snowy eating the apple. I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: didn't remember that. She's like, it's a wishing apple. What
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: do you want And she's like, um, well, there's this guy.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: And she goes on for like a while, just shut up,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: like we're actually ready for you to be dead. But
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: she she's like talking about like, oh, there's this guy
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: in sweatpants that came to my house and I just
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: if he doesn't rob dog me, I'll die. And then
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: she does die, right, But the fact that the queen
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: like that same crazy thing is stated again because there's
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: nothing else to talk about with snow White. That's the
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: only thing we know about her is that she wants
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: to date this guy in sweatpants she's met once, yeah,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: and hardly interacted with at all, Like they sang in
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: each other a little bit or near each other, but
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: like they don't know anything about Okay, so you can
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: argue this is a fairy tale. There's a lot of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: suspension of disbelief, like this is how fairy tales play out. Well,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: fuck fairy tales. They're stupid and I hate them and
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: they just reinforce these like rigid gender roles that are
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: dictated by the patriarchy, and they are no good and
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I'm over fairy tales, sorry, And I don't think that
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: all fairy tales necessarily did that. I'm trying to think
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: of fairy tales that I heard, but this like was
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: the first fairy tale that they brought to movies. Yeah,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I really think it was like a weird thing with Disney,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Like if they had had somebody who was less like
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: women should be seen, not heard and cook and make
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: me dinner, like, I feel like maybe we wouldn't have. Like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: it's just a very The Disney Princess is like very
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: specifically one guy's idea of like what women should be,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: and I did a lot of damage. Sure, I mean
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I would say of the fairy tales that sent her around,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: a romantic relationship, usually between a prince and or princess,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: usually one of them is a royal. Usually the woman
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: is unconscious for at least part of the story, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: if she's not unconscious, she is like if she's or something.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Of the ones that depict that type of story of
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: like a romantic story, they are very very damaging. Well,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: it's like the whole message is like if she's unable
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: to give consent, it's true love, baby, Like it's crazy
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: so yeah, okay, let's talk about that scene where she
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: is unconscious. Everyone thinks she's dead, the dwarves, as far
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: as I know, she is dead, but they've kept her
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: in this like coffin above ground and the Prince has
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: heard about the woman in the coffin. He shows up
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, yeah, this is the girl that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I sang at for five minutes a year ago. He yeah.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: He also has not written new material pretty sing song
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: singing his song. I have one song kind of it.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So he's staying on brand. At least he has one song.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: And he just keeps saying he's very strong. But it's
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: like he the print heard that if he stumbled into
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the woods he might find a corpse to marry, like okay, okay,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: and then he, for whatever reason, makes the choice to
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: kiss that corpse. How did how did the prince? Here?
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Were the dwarves like, hey, we've got a corpse in
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the woods. You maybe if you make it sound like
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: word like everybody was gossiping about the girl in the
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: glass coffin. But keep in mind everybody thought she was dead,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: so he was going to see a dead girl, right
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the only coffin and kiss her the only person who
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: would have known was the queen, and she she's dead.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there would be no reason for anyone to
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: think that by kissing her she would come back to life.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: But setting aside that story logic or lack thereof, he
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: still kisses an unconscious woman. So she cannot consent to this.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: But instead of it like having the consequences that it
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: should have, which is like, oh, you kissed me and
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I wasn't able to consent to it, You're a fucking rapist.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Get away from me, it wakes her up and it
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: lifts the curse. He very good according to the story
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: that he kissed her unconscious body. It's literally like an
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: s VU episode. It's like so weird, it's just the
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: sounds a very very dangerous message to everyone watching this
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: that if you kiss an unconscious woman, hey, good things
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: might happen. It might bring her back to life. So
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: that's very irresponsible of any story that does this, which
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: is a lot and speaking of her being unconscious. Okay,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: So there are a bunch of movies where in the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: climactic sequence, and this is especially true of like action
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: adventure movies, the one female character of the story because
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: there's probably only one has been captured, tied up and
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: physically restrained in some way and unable to contribute it
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: all to the events of the story in this climactic sequence,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: so she can't do anything to help the male hero
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: defeat the villain because she's all tied up. This is
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: true of Ghostbusters, The Mummy, Die Hard, Who Friend, Roger Rabbit,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of other movies. What's even crazier is
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: when this happens in a movie with a protagonist is
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: a woman, and it still happens like she should be
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the one in this movie snow White, because she's the
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: protagonist of the story. She should be driving the story.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: She should have a strong desire and be actively doing
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: things to try to achieve that. But instead she is
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: rendered completely unconscious and cannot even contribute to the climax
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: of her own story, to the point where she has
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: no motivation for the majority of the movie, like she yeah,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: she's literally being dragged around to the next location at all,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Like it's just it's then this is true for I mean,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: it's less often that this happens where it's a female
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: protagonist who can't even dictate the outcome of her own story,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: probably because there are not as many movies with a
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: female protagonist. But it happens in Snow White, it happens
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: in Sleeping Beauty, it happens in the first Twilight movie,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: where like the female characters like, actually, um, sorry, I
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: can't do anything. I'm not awake, and it's just like, ah,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: that is not how storytelling works. I'm very frustrated. It's
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: okay overboard that movie. I guess that's not the climate.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: I still haven't seen that movie. I feel like I've
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: been hearing a lot about that movies. Well be on
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the lookout. R Yeah, they're not. They're rebooting it, so
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: we'll probably do an episode about it. Yeah, comes on
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: in April kidnap and convinces her that she has amnesia
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: and that she is his wife. That is the story
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: of boredom. I'm so ashamed of the mess I've made. Oh,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: we haven't talked about Grumpy fully a libertarian, but also
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: says a few different points like and you can you
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: can tell that this you know seven is getting big
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: old yucks in the audience of like women, you can't
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: trust them, you can't like what did they say? Oh?
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: He says, um all females is poison. Yeah, all females
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: are poison. They full of wicked wild He's basically he's
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: suggesting though, that she's going to use her feminine wiles
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: to corrupt them or do whatever the fuck. The point
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: is Grumpy hates women, hates and makes a point to
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: remind every one of this several times throughout the story.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: He can't go to sleep before he's like, oh boy,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: do I hate women? Good night? But he's a whole
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: archetype of like male movie character who's like acts like
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: he hates women. But then it's like, I hope she's
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: all right, and that supposed to like melt your heart
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: and like, right, this man of masculinity actually does, Karen,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to he's redeemed and we're supposed to like him. Now, well,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: that's like the whole like grade school myth of like
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: if someone treats you like shit, it means you. Because
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: she immediately is like, I hope Grumpy likes me, says Grumpy. Yeah.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: She makes a pot over, but the bird somehow knows
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: English and knows how to spell the bird grumpy on
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the pie on sanitary animals are stepping on the food
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: do you think they did that because they didn't want
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: to show a woman like knowing how to write, don't
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: get don't get as wrong, so I cannot. But when
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the beds, it's fine for the Oh yeah, yeah, she guys.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if this makes her less hot to you,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: but she can read. Gross that bird wants to see
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: her and Grumpy get back together. It's shipping ship. And
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I don't care for the dwarf smooching. Why is there
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a five minute scene where it kills all the dwarfs
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: before they go to work? And Dope keeps trying to
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: trick her into kissing him again and keeps like, you're
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: so adorable the way you keep trying to trick me
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: into kissing. At least she never falls for it, which
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: is saying a lot for her, because she is very dumb. Okay,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: so I want to talk about anything. I want to
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: talk about how she's framed in this movie, which is
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: just like a very And granted, she is young. I
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: don't know if we ever know explicitly how old she's
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to be, but I think we can assume teenager,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So she is young. Therefore, it stands to reason that
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: she might be a little naive. But why are so
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: many movies about these young princesses who are so naive.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Put a third be five year old woman in your
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: fucking movie who has lived a little bit and seeing
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: the world and isn't such a naive piece of ship anyway.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So she's young, and she's but she's also very meek
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: and gentle and docile and delicate and borderline can't do
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: anything except domestic chores. She's yeah, she's like crippled by now,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: unable she is to do anything except take care of men. Yeah,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: she just does a lot of Oh, like she's like
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: shocked by everything and like take constantly. It's like she's
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: there are a couple of times when I heard her
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: say something, I was like, that's how a cartoon of
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: a dumb character would say that. Now, like it's like
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: somehow we got from that being like here's your hero
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: to this is how like I think when she says,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: maybe if I clean up, they'll let me stay, I
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: was like, sounded like we were supposed to think she's
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: an idiot. And again, this is you know, nineteen thirties
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: audiences are watching this and they're like, yeah, we've never
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: seen a feature length cartoon before sure, I buy this
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: as I see it. I mean, it's just like, um,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: because this movie is like a gigantic, enormous, like everyone
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: saw this movie, and I think that it was like
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: partially because of the story, because like, people wouldn't go
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: to see it if if they didn't like the story,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: even though it's like you see it because it's the
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: really long cartoon. But there must have been something that
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: really worked for everybody, because I mean, this is a
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: more iconic movie than a lot of other earlier Disney movies.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: So the fact that people are have watched it for
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: decades is upsetting because of how poorly it dreads women
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: and presents them in their story. Um. But so she's
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: so just like naive and docile that it leads to
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: her downfall that she doesn't even get to do anything
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: to try to redeem herself for but she gets tricked
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: into letting this old woman into her house, and she
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: tricked into taking a bye to the apple. But the
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: funniest part of this scene is when the old scary
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: hag who startles snow white and she's like because ocause
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: she does she She's like, hi, right, and she's being
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: trailed by those two vultures, which should be seen as
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: a bad son there that like look for dead stuff,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: like following her, like ubbing their hands. And the first
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: thing that the old witch says to snow White is
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: are you all alone, my pet? Anyone call you my pet?
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Do not eat their apples, and also leads with are
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: you alone? And she's like, uhuh, She's like are you sure.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: She's like, well, there are some guys that live here,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: but no, I'm by myself, so they're far far away
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the okay, So she is visibly scared in this scene.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: It takes a while for her to trust this woman,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: and she doesn't even let her in until she's like, oh,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: my heart, invite me in and let me sit. So
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: to snow White's credit, she doesn't let her in immediately.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: But I don't think this is certainly an act of
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: comment on the fact that women are sort of conditioned
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: to be polite. I read that one too. I thought
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: that too, Yeah, because I mean, I don't think anyone
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: who was making this movie was thinking this at all.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: But it is no question that women are conditioned tota
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, exactly, because if we don't the consequences
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: could be disastrous. That is a direct quote from Back
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: to the Future. But sorry, but yeah, I mean sometimes
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: if you say no to the wrong person, they will
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: get very scary and violent towards you, such as do
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: you remember earlier in the movie when that guy in
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: sweatpants scaled a wall and also scared snow. Yeah, yeah,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just thinking of female characters and how
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: like movies further on down the road would sort of
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: rob them of agency. Like, for instance, I'm watching Pulp
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Fiction again for the first time in like ten years
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: for another podcast most recent episode, and like Uma Thurman's
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: character is like awesome, and she's that's a great performance,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: but her main action is to like like poison herself something,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: so she's like unconscious. And then and then like Bruce
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Willis's girlfriend is this like dizzy kind of foreign person
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: who sucks something up when like he's like, you had
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: one job, and I don't know, I just wonder, like
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: back to the future, you mentioned Back to the Future
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: to his girlfriend is knocked out the whole thing. Yeah,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Like again, it's just like let's just knock her out
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and we can't use her in this story. Let's just
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: make her unconscious, right, right, But I wonder if this
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: movie set that up or if that had already that
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: was just like, I mean, the trope of women being
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: passive and just not well developed female characters has been
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: a thing throughout all of the nature. But I mean,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: certainly movies like we have this podcast because of how
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: influential movies are and media is to our culture and
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: society and how they really like shapes the way other
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: media is. It's like, well, we saw this story and
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that worked, so let's do a similar thing, for sure,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: And that's why these troopes exist and keep being perpetuated,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: especially movies like this, where it's like so embedded in
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: your head that you can't even like, you know the story,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: but it's so vague that you don't even realize that
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: the particulars are so fucked up and bizarre, like totally well,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: you know, if a woman is doing something, she's bad, uh,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: according to this movie. No matter what, I feel like
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: this movie is an appropriate opening to the whole like
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Disney movie thing, because I feel like the one consistent
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: theme in all Disney movies is how you look determines
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: how good you are. So if you're like a active person,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you are a good person, and then if you're evil,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: you'll usually either eventually turn into a crone or like
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: b one from the start. And it is a very
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: big theme in the Wizard of Oz. Yeah, yeah, it's
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: all it's the whole universe is just like how you
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: look on the outside is exactly reflective of your your
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: personal worth and also how everyone around you treats you.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Because Snow it would be dead in the first ten
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: minutes if she were not, if that huntsman was like, oh,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: she's ugly, so it's fine. But it opens that universe
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: with a kingdom that is explicitly like I'm the prettiest,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I have the power, I'm the queen, and then okay,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer the prettiest. I have to kill the
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: prettiest to maintain that. So it's almost like he's setting
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: up he's telling us what all the main value of
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: his movies is going to be like from now on.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: And and in a lot of the like you know,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Disney Princess movies, it's about a female character are sort
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: of having to passively wait around for the prince or
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: whoever to come and kind of rescue her, and they're
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: often very damseled and or just noise only damsels and
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: nothing else happens. And like I wenttioned before, we've seen
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: a shift, but it's only been very recently with movies
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: like mo Wanna Brave Frozen, where they are like princessy
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: characters but they have much more agency. But those have
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: only been in the past decade or less. And I
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: feel like it kicked off with Frozen having the two
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: female protagonists who were like their friendship was at the
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: center of the movie, and that was a total accident.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: It was supposed to also was supposed to be the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: evil like Ice Princess, and then they wrote that song
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: let It Go, and they were like, well, this is
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: too good not used. So they rewrote the movie around
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: that song and made them friends and and like when
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: you look at the trailers for Frozen when it first
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: came out, they tried to avoid the fact that it
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: was about a female relationship, like between two women, like
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: the plague, like all the first trailer that they showed
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: I think during the Super Bowl was like the moose
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: and like the Snowman, and like that's just what they
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: put front and center. And then I mean they must
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: have been totally surprised when it was their biggest hit ever,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: and now I feel like, so, I feel like they've
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: just accidentally figured out that there's money and being progressive. Yeah. Well,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I remember the marketing for mo Wanna. At least a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: few of the trailers I saw, we're basically framing Maui
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: is the hero of the movie rather than Mohanna, And
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, what, why would you market a movie
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: that way? Because it's so misleading and not at all
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: what the movie is. I just want to congratulate Gary
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Oldman on his Golden Globe award. Just everything is going
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: very well and it's going great. Have you guys talked
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: about why Gary Oldman was problematic? But well we'll link
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: it into description surprise is Yeah, he abusive beat his wife.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Oh how about that poor pig that the Huntsman did
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: kill and steal the heart of icon the pig? Yeah,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: never trust a man in sweatpants. That's perhaps the most
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: harmful lesson of all. If if you know like the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Prince for sure, like he plays the bass like he's
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: he's a disaster, his neighbors hate him. Disney had to
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: like redo that character the most times because he kept
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: being like he's too fruity, he walks like a fruit. Wow.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I mean Disney was also very racist and anti Semitic, right,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean his anti semitism is like one
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: of one of the big old talking points. But what
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: an imagination. I guess. You know. He had to drag
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: his protagonists around as if she were dead and then
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: actually kill her. That scene where snow White spends forty
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: five minutes kissing all the dwarfs before they go off
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: to work. She should she could be reading a book,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: or learning how to play an instrument, or just learning
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: how to do anything besides cooking and cleaning. I don't know.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so like in terms of plot,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: this movie is fifteen minutes long, like there's so much,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: so many large spotsive time where it's like, oh thank god,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: we get to see a chipmunk wash a dish, like
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: so long, surprisingly little like that. This movie moves quickly,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: like it's only ninety or below ninety minutes, I think,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: But it moves quickly in some senses and then in
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: other senses it's like when is this going to end?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I watched it like with my one year old, who
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: like isn't allowed to watch stuff. So him getting to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: see a screen and something on the screen was like
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: the best thing that's happened to him. And we're really
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: mean to him usually and uh and he got bored
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: after all, Like yeah, he was just like this sucks,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: like walk away. At first he thought the doors were
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: funny and then he was just like fuck it. Yea,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: he's not wrong. Um, let's talk about whether or not
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: the movie passes the Bechtel test. So I think it does.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I know, Okay, so this proof that it is. You know,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: every metric is flawed. So there's only one scene in
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: which it has the potential to pass, which is when
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: the queen dressed as the old woman she refers to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: herself later as Granny, which another major red flag. But
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: lady named Granny shows up. Hey, pet, it's me granted Granny.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: You alone. Men, they're not here, So she shows up
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: because she knows where they I guess. She literally says
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: making pies do a good impression, and then uh snow
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: it says, yeah, gloseberry pie, and they're like, well, there
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: it is. But because in the next line she's like, no,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: it's apple pie that drives the men. While so it
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: just has to be according to our bar for it
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: and revision, because there's no way this movie should pass
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: A thing that says, like if it's about pies and
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: baking pies, that doesn't pass a domestic. A lot of
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: the movies that we talk about that do pass the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Becto tests are often talking about either food or clothes,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: which also they're great. There's several movies we're done where
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: it's like the past happens at a store where she's talking, right,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: why can't they talk about science? Well, it's like, well,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: if we if we revised our en to not include
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: domestic or like whatever, you know, Yeah, let's explore that more, right, So, yes,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: the movie does pass the Bechdel test for like two
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: seconds and it's about pie. Let's write the movie on
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: her nipple scale zero to five nipples. Based on its
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: portrayal of women, I have to give it zero. This
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: is a zero nipple movie for me. Cool that it's
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: a female protagonist, cool that it's a female villain. But
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: snow White is extremely passive and does almost nothing, makes
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: almost no choices. Her only desire in the entire movie,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: which we don't even really learn or fully understand until
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: much later into the movie is that she wants Prince
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Charming to come and marry her over a horse. Because
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: she does nothing to pursue this desire of hers, she's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: rendered completely inactive to the point where she's unconscious for
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: the end sequence of the movie. Between that and Grumpy
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: and his toxic masculinity and women hating speeches that he
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: gives every few scenes, it is a movie I used
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: to love as a kid, and now that I've seen
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: it through the bacto cast lens might be my least
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: favorite movie of all time. I hate it so much
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: now and it is garbage at the end. I'm gonna
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: give it half a nippy because the queen does have
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: a murder dungeon that we see that is not addressed
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: later she turns into a witch, goes downstairs, there's a
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: skeleton steemed to die reaching for water, and then she
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: just left it there to r right. She makes one
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: of the skeleton. She's like theirs that like kicks the
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: water kin and then gets into a canoe and rows
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: out like she has a tunnel system so she can murder,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: And that is an that is very active. We never
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: revisit how long was that there for? Yeah, I mean,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: this movie really stinks for and I do like I
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: even after watching it this time, I do still have
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: a weird subconscious attachment to it. So I recognize that
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: it deserves zero nipples, but I'm gonna give it half
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: a nipple. And I'm going to say it's because of
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: the Murder Dungeon, because that did not remember that loved
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: that she mocked a skeleton. I like to think that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: that was the king, how he touched kids getting so,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't talk about this, but this is
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: another example of a Disney princess that has either one
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: or no parents because a lot of them have a
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: dead mom. She has a dead dad and then a
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: stepmother who actively wants her to pass away, right, and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: that happens again in Um. Yes, I give it half
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: a nipple for the murder Dungeon and give the nipple
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: back to whoever that skeleton was. Yeah, I think I
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: have to go zero just for all the damage it
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: does and has done and the I mean, that's kind
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: of why I chose it is because it's so horrible
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: and it creates the archetype of the Disney princess as passive.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I wanted to say that. You know, if the right
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: little girl sees it, maybe she'd identify with the queen
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: and be happy that she's like so manipulative and machiavellian.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, she has that dungeon, but the fact that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: all of her manipulation and murdering is done to be
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: the prettiest is kind of shitty. Yet do we know
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: for sure the father is out of the picture. We
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: never see them on screen, and there's nothing to indicate
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: that he is around. I feel like though he's got
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: to be dead, because otherwise the Queen wouldn't be in charge.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: But so many details in this movie are completely glossed over.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: We like the world building in this movie is not
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: very good because we don't know who lives there or
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: who's in charge. Because the dungeon could suggest that she
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: has committed a genocide of all women who were prettier
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: than her, and that's how she became the prettiest and
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: the only reason she had done it to snow White
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: was because as her father was there to be like,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: please don't kill my daughter, but killing like trying to
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: do it on the low. Take him out and take
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: her out of the woods. Good fan theory, Yeah, that's
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: a hot woman's skeleton. Isn't that so taxy? Now? Okay,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: well this was a yeah, this harmful piece of media.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure people would say, well it was
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: the time, it was the nineteen thirties. I keep on
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: rebooting it though, see if it resonates. Sure. Yeah, I
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: have not seen any of the snow White and the
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Huntsman adaptation or the Mirror Mirror starting Julia Roberts. I
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: haven't seen any. I'm sure there's a moment and in
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: all of those movies where snow White does one thing
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: and then like basically looks a camera. It's like, see,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: I fing hate the dumb Just write a better story, right, cool?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Well that is our snow White and the Seven Dwarfs episode. Jack,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for join. Yeah. Where can people
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: follow you online? Do you have anything you want to plug? Yeah?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Jack under Squirrel,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Brian and yes search Daily's like we tell you what's
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: going on on a daily basis and you know, have fun. Cool.
• 1:10:17
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• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: and all the other all the social media's at becktel
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Cast and also if you live in the Los Angeles area.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: We have a live show coming up at NERD malt
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: show Room February eight thirty. We will be doing for
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: the month of feb the Month of Love. We're going
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: to be doing The Notebook with Caitlyn Gill. Yes, I'm
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: so excited. I haven't seen The Notebook in a very
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: long time. Same. Yeah, so come through, come on down
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: to that. Check our website backtelcast dot com for ticket information. Also, hey,
• 1:10:53
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• 1:10:56
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• 1:10:59
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• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: Give us five dollars. Yeah, indeed, Um, some day my
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: second master's degree will come. Dude, listen to one song.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: It's crazy O. Goodbye.