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38 - Lucrezia Borgia - Victim or Vixen? · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast. A Hi everybody,
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Speaker 1: and welcome to Hooded What Now the history podcast that's
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Speaker 1: not your history class with me your angry feminist host
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Speaker 1: Katie Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. Let'st we forget.
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Speaker 1: I'm also your friendly neighborhood social scientist as long as
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Speaker 1: you don't give me a reason to not be friendly
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Speaker 1: with yet. That's a very a very aggressive way to
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Speaker 1: start the show, Katie, Well, you know you're not wrong.
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Speaker 1: You're not wrong. So yeah, first things first, I should
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Speaker 1: probably say hi to a lot of the new followers
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Speaker 1: who have Hi sauce hazard going anyway, thank you for joining,
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Guild of Historical Descent for the newbies.
1:08
Speaker 1: For the newbies, I should probably say that when I
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Speaker 1: get the opportunity to. I do like to discuss things
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Speaker 1: that are often mistold or misinterpreted throughout history. Hence why
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Speaker 1: it's a Guild of Historical Descent. I don't think I've
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Speaker 1: even said that in a long time, but you know,
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Speaker 1: the reason I started this podcast was so that I
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Speaker 1: could talk about stuff in history that I found interesting,
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Speaker 1: and unfortunately, a lot of history is told through the
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Speaker 1: perspective of the pale and stale men, you know, and
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Speaker 1: what we learn is through their very limited scope and perspective.
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Speaker 1: Not only that, but it's very eurocentric, and you'll find
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Speaker 1: that a lot of history is shown and taught through
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Speaker 1: the lens of European standards, and it's very myopic, and
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Speaker 1: it's very classist, and it's in racist and eurocentric, and
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Speaker 1: it's a whole bag of cats. So when I get
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Speaker 1: to dispel myths and provide a truer version of history,
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Speaker 1: and I know you can go but this is your perspective,
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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, it is far too easy to go,
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Speaker 1: Oh well, I don't like how this is, so I'm
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Speaker 1: just not going to believe it, which is actually part
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Speaker 1: of the backfire effect, which will discuss at some point
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Speaker 1: probably maybe. But my video got a little bit popular
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Speaker 1: because I was talking about the people who say not
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Speaker 1: all men, especially the people who you see. Last week,
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Speaker 1: a twenty two year old school teacher went for a
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Speaker 1: jog after work and she was murdered by a man
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Speaker 1: in broad daylight. And yet again, this horrific and cruel
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Speaker 1: event serves to amplify the continued and socially accepted abuse
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Speaker 1: of women. That is totally and irrefugeably ingrained in our society,
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Speaker 1: and we need to work better to and that's something
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Speaker 1: we really need to revolt against because that's not acceptable.
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Speaker 1: And this poor girl, her body had not touched the
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Speaker 1: soil less less than forty eight hours after she was
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Speaker 1: viciously killed. Not all men was trending on Twitter in
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Speaker 1: response to this. I shouldn't have to explain that if
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Speaker 1: your automatic response is to go in defense and go
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Speaker 1: not all men kill women. Nobody said all men kill women.
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Speaker 1: People don't say all men kill women. It doesn't start
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Speaker 1: with murder. It never starts with murder. It starts small.
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Speaker 1: It starts with microaggressions, taking up more space, making sexist comments,
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Speaker 1: forcing yourself into a women's attention, not listening to them
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Speaker 1: when they tell you no, by not listening to women,
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Speaker 1: by dismissing their fears, and demanding that we rip our
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Speaker 1: guts out and spill a collective trauma for your consumption
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Speaker 1: in order for us to justify our fear. AnyWho, This's
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Speaker 1: got very serious, very fast. So the video I made.
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Speaker 1: I made the same video actually last year when Sara
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Speaker 1: Everard was killed by a policeman and so like, I
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Speaker 1: didn't think it was going to blow up the way
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Speaker 1: it did, but it did. The video basically goes that
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Speaker 1: anyone who says not all men should have to play
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Speaker 1: a game of Russian Roulette because there was a bullet
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Speaker 1: in the chamber, but not all chambers, So one in
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Speaker 1: five women are at risk of being attacked and assaulted
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Speaker 1: by men, like grievously assaulted. If you're talking about other
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Speaker 1: forms of abuse, harassment and assault, that's four and five.
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Speaker 1: And the purpose of that is not saying all men
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Speaker 1: have to play Russian Roulette, because that that's an incredibly
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Speaker 1: stupid take to have. And the game of Russian Roulette,
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Speaker 1: men aren't the bullet. The bullet is the risk. Women
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Speaker 1: have a one in five chance of being horrifically assaulted
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Speaker 1: and abused by a man. So the risks in the
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Speaker 1: game of Russian Roulette run parallel to the very real
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Speaker 1: life situations that women are put in by men. And
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Speaker 1: that's the point, and this is it. You can't check
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Speaker 1: the chambers. You don't know which one the bullet's in.
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Speaker 1: You don't know, and if you're not willing to play,
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Speaker 1: why should we? But anyway, I know what you're thinking.
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Speaker 1: You're thinking, quit your jibber jabber in fact me, in
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Speaker 1: fact you, I will be first. We're got to get
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Speaker 1: our source on. Our sources are Lucrezia Borgia Life, Love
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Speaker 1: and Death and Renaissance Italy. The Borgias Power and Fortune
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Speaker 1: by Paul Strathern, The Life in Times of Lucritzia Borgia
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Speaker 1: by Maria Blanchi, and of course we have our favorite
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Speaker 1: history dot com and biography. Lucretzia Borgia was born on
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Speaker 1: April eighteenth, fourteen eighty, near Rome, to the Nazza Catene. So,
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Speaker 1: I know I'm going surely these name lads. I'm so
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Speaker 1: sorry to Venozza Catenae who and Cardinal Wordrigo Borgia. So
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Speaker 1: even though she's married, she is the cardinal's favorite mistress
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Speaker 1: for like so long, And even when Lucrezia is born,
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Speaker 1: no one believes it's Venozza's husband, like they're like, nah,
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Speaker 1: it's not so like from the get go she was
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Speaker 1: basically known as a Borgia, and so Cardinal word Rego
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Speaker 1: he goes to all of these astrologers and soothsayers and
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Speaker 1: he wants them to tell him the future of his
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Speaker 1: newborn baby, Lucrezia, and so like the astrologers and the soothsayers.
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Speaker 1: They were like, your daughter, this baby will have a
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Speaker 1: remarkable future, and they're basically saying the South chins out
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Speaker 1: over our She's going to be amazing. She's super awesome.
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Speaker 1: But in fairness, I'm fairly certain nobody wanted to piss
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Speaker 1: off Rodrigo there because he had quite a lot of
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Speaker 1: power and he was consistently amassing it. So the Borgia family,
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Speaker 1: they although they were like massive in Italy, they originated
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Speaker 1: from Spain, so like native Italians, they were kind of
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Speaker 1: suspicious and they weren't too keen on the Borgias, especially
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Speaker 1: in the beginning. So the Borgies had been involved in
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Speaker 1: the church for like a good while because his Rodrigo's uncle,
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Speaker 1: so like his uncle was a pope. So that was
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Speaker 1: how he ended up being a cardinal, you know, because
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Speaker 1: nepotism is everywhere's rife, especially in the church. So he
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Speaker 1: would basically be doing whelan and delan. He would be maneuvering,
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Speaker 1: and he would be working politically to raise his family's interests.
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Speaker 1: After spending her formative years with her mother, Lucrezia has
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Speaker 1: moved to Rodrigo's cousin's house, Adriana Orsini. So Critia gets
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Speaker 1: taught the way a high lady should be taught. You'll
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Speaker 1: find that, like during this period of time that women,
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Speaker 1: especially high class women, were quite well educated. It was
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Speaker 1: seen as an expected thing. So the Critsia was taught Latin, Greek, Italian, French,
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Speaker 1: and of course things like singing and music and drawing
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Speaker 1: and basically everything that could make her more appealing in court,
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Speaker 1: in sort of high society circles, basically trying to make
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Speaker 1: her the epitome of Italian culture and desire. What her
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Speaker 1: teacher said to her was like she was taught to
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Speaker 1: be clever and clear, not to be like fluffing her
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Speaker 1: words and just you know, bullshitting and saying things that
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Speaker 1: sound pretty but actually have no meaning. The whole point
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Speaker 1: was that everything she said had value, because as a
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Speaker 1: woman in society, especially then, she had to ensure that
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Speaker 1: she had value. In fourteen ninety two, Cardinal Rodrigo Borgia
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Speaker 1: becomes Pope Alexander the sixth. He gets elected to the pontificate,
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Speaker 1: and this changes everything being the family of the pope
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Speaker 1: regardless of whether you were illegitimate or not, because strangely enough,
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Speaker 1: he claimed them. He claimed his children, especially those bi Vnazza,
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Speaker 1: Cesare and Giovanni. They are Lucretia's older brothers. They are
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Speaker 1: all claimed and utilized by Pope Alexander the sixth. So everything,
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Speaker 1: every move in this game of chess was to ensure
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Speaker 1: that the pope had power. So every single one of
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Speaker 1: his children, but Lucrezia especially would be a very useful
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Speaker 1: pawn for him. And because Lucrezia was a well educated
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Speaker 1: esthetically a pleasing apparently and appropriately educated girl, and because
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Speaker 1: Lucrezia had, you know, reached puberty at least we think
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Speaker 1: she has, Lucrezia is a very valuable piece at this point.
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Speaker 1: Being part of the pope's sort of family, it made
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Speaker 1: you like royalty in Italy. You were seen as the
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Speaker 1: highest of society. Of course, being a woman in Renaissance, Sidda,
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Speaker 1: what does this mean? Women are used to secure alliances?
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Speaker 1: That's it, And that's what people wanted to marry her
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Speaker 1: because obviously she's the equivalent of a princess in fucking Rome,
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Speaker 1: and marrying into this family ensured security and safety and power,
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Speaker 1: and that's what people wanted. And it also helped that
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Speaker 1: apparently Lucrezia was fucking gorgeous. But what did she look like?
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Speaker 1: I hear you ask, Well, so Lucrezia she had. She
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Speaker 1: was very much a beauty, especially within Renaissance Italy. So
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Speaker 1: she has a beautiful complexion, long blonde hair that basically
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Speaker 1: goes past her knees. She has hazel eyes and a
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Speaker 1: full high bosom like this has brought up on more
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Speaker 1: than one occasion, her full high bosom, okay. And also
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Speaker 1: that she has a natural grace that made it seem
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Speaker 1: as if she walked on air. Basically, she had good posture, right,
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Speaker 1: she had good posture, and she wasn't clumsy hooray. She
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Speaker 1: had brilliantly white teeth and a slender neck. Also.
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Speaker 2: In addition, furthermore, they stated the bust is admirably proportioned,
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Speaker 2: like they were obsessed with bibbs even back in Renaissance Italy.
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Speaker 1: This is not this is not a new thing. Wow.
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Speaker 1: Basically she was seen as pleasant and graceful, as nice
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Speaker 1: as nice, so like she inspired like painters and shit
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Speaker 1: like when she was twelve, the painter il Pinetruccio used
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Speaker 1: Lacretzia as the model for his depiction of Saint Catherine
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Speaker 1: because he painted frescoes in the Borgia apartments in the
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Speaker 1: Vatican in fourteen ninety two and in the following year,
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Speaker 1: the Duke of River's ambassador describes the thirteen year old
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Speaker 1: Lacretzia this exquisite, graceful young darling whose education had been
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Speaker 1: quote full of Christian piety. So she had all of
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Speaker 1: the traits and qualities that one would expect with such
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Speaker 1: an upbringing. She was desirable because you know, it's the
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Speaker 1: hole Madonna and horror idea, because she was seen as
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Speaker 1: the epitome of purity. That really bumps up her worth.
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Speaker 1: So surprise, surprise, all like the main massive families in
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Speaker 1: Italy are like, we need to get in on this.
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Speaker 1: Somebody marry that child. So loads of people are trying
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Speaker 1: to like build this alliance with the Borgias. Like there
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Speaker 1: were two suitors who were like trying to get her
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Speaker 1: hand in marriage. They were well into this. The King
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Speaker 1: of Naples even tried to get her, was even trying
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Speaker 1: to marry her, like, and so all these suitors are
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Speaker 1: coming forward and they're like trying to prove why they
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Speaker 1: would be a worthy alliance, why they would be best
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Speaker 1: suited to be aligned with the Borgias. Because nobody gives
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Speaker 1: a fuck actually about Lacretzia and her well being. But
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Speaker 1: again nepotism and previous alliances all come into play. So
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Speaker 1: Cardinal Sforza, whose brother was the Duke of Milan, he
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Speaker 1: puts forward his nephew, Giovanni. So Giovanni's like twenty something,
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Speaker 1: and the Borgias go, yep, this seems like a good deal.
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Speaker 1: We can work with this because the Sphorzas are really powerful,
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Speaker 1: like in the north and in central Italy. But by
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Speaker 1: aligning themselves with them, it really sort of strengthens the alliances.
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Speaker 1: So on the ninth of June forteen ninety three, Giovanni Sforza,
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Speaker 1: who I think is like twenty something, so he swans
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Speaker 1: into Rome like the cat's pajamas, having a grand entrance
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Speaker 1: fhea the Porta del Popolo, Porta del Popolo, and three
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Speaker 1: days later him and Lucretia get hitched. And obviously this
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Speaker 1: is the society wedding, so basically you've got like all
14:21
Speaker 1: of the upper crust families are there. You've got politicians, ambassadors,
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Speaker 1: officials sworn and so forth, the whole thing. There's a
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Speaker 1: big party, it's a massive celebration everyone's dancing and eating
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Speaker 1: and partying out. Then like so like, in the early
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Speaker 1: hours of the morning, the couple are accompanied to the
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Speaker 1: palace of Santa Maria in Portugal. And throughout this whole time,
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Speaker 1: no one gives a flying fuck about Lucrezia, about her
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Speaker 1: place and all this, her fears, her hopes, nothing matters,
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Speaker 1: because she's just useful until she isn't. And she's thirteen,
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Speaker 1: and you can say at a different time, a child
15:01
Speaker 1: is still a child, regardless of the century. So in
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Speaker 1: the following year, this shit hits the fan. So King
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Speaker 1: Charles the eighth of France, he just fucking invades Italy,
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Speaker 1: doesn't he like course, And and Lucrezia's husband's uncle forges
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Speaker 1: an alliance at the French and he does this against
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Speaker 1: Pop Alexander, so against Lucrezia's father's So she is, basically,
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Speaker 1: at the age of fourteen, stuck in this fucking political
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Speaker 1: storm between her husband's family and her own. And Giovanni
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Speaker 1: he's also stuck in the middle. So he's either like,
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Speaker 1: do I align myself with my wife's family or with
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Speaker 1: my own? And in the end, Giovanni's like, yeah, no,
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Speaker 1: I'm not turning against my uncle so tough, I can't
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Speaker 1: support your brothers, so cesare and he's like all right,
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Speaker 1: and very considerately informs his sister that he's gonna have
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Speaker 1: to kill her husband, and she's like okay. So the
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Speaker 1: Cretzia goes fuck this for a game of soldiers and
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Speaker 1: decides to protect her husband and warns him, and Giovanni flees.
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Speaker 1: He gets the fuck at Dodge. He heads to Milan
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Speaker 1: disguised as a beggar, which you know must have been
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Speaker 1: so tough for him. So he's fucked off, and the
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Speaker 1: porgies are like, well, this isn't useful to us anymore.
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Speaker 1: He's a prick. Let's get rid of him. And seeing
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Speaker 1: as we cannot fucking just kill him, we have to
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Speaker 1: think of an alternative route. I know, let's get an annulment.
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Speaker 1: So in order to have the marriage and all, they
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Speaker 1: needed a reason, obviously, and the reason that they used
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Speaker 1: was Giovanni was impotent, and so there plan was stating
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Speaker 1: that the marriage was never consummated because Giovanni was impotent.
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Speaker 1: And Giovanni's like, no, I don't like this, so he
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Speaker 1: decides that he wants to ruin Lucrezia's reputation the very
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Speaker 1: person who saved his life, he wants to destroy hers. Okay,
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Speaker 1: In a totally sane and reasonable act sarcasm, Giovanni starts
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Speaker 1: spreading lies about Lucrezia in a way to tarnish not
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Speaker 1: only her reputation, but the reputation of her family. Or
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Speaker 1: perhaps he was just trying to turnish the reputation of
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Speaker 1: her family and Lucrezia was just collateral damage, because why
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Speaker 1: the fuck with this child matter to you? So Like normally,
17:46
Speaker 1: when you think of Lucrezia Borgia, you think of this evil,
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Speaker 1: manipulating poisoner who fucked her brother. Like that's what you hear.
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Speaker 1: I also want to blame Assassin's creed. Armison's creed has
18:01
Speaker 1: a lot to fucking apologize for. Like I understand it's fantasy,
18:06
Speaker 1: but the whole concept is that it's based on historical fact.
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Speaker 1: And eighty percent of the time they treat women like
18:12
Speaker 1: fucking garbage. They'd rather continuously project this image of them
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Speaker 1: being absolute cunts than instead of making them a three
18:22
Speaker 1: dimensional fucking character. As at the point. The point is
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Speaker 1: they did it to Lucrezia Borgia, they did it to Cleopatra,
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Speaker 1: and they like and they really downplayed and Bonnie, I'm
18:34
Speaker 1: just I'm just saying, all right, like mmmmm, just it
18:40
Speaker 1: just bothers me. It's all I'm saying. I love the
18:43
Speaker 1: Assassin's Creed games, but mm yeah, so I blame I
18:48
Speaker 1: blame stuff like that and a lot of popular culture.
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Speaker 1: It feels the need to project any kind of strong
18:53
Speaker 1: or clever women from the past as either a whore
18:57
Speaker 1: or a fucking bitch like this, this is why I
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Speaker 1: have an issue with the perception of history. So maybe
19:05
Speaker 1: go before I get mad. But Giovanni also claims and
19:10
Speaker 1: publicly declared that Pope Alexander the sixth knew his daughter carnally,
19:15
Speaker 1: and he continues to do this because you know, he's
19:19
Speaker 1: a dick. So they're like, hey, we'll give you her Diwary.
19:23
Speaker 1: You can keep that. We're not going to ask for
19:24
Speaker 1: that money back, and Giovanni's like, maybe that seems like
19:28
Speaker 1: a maybe. But then the Spoor as a family, they
19:31
Speaker 1: threaten to withdraw their protection of him if he refuses
19:35
Speaker 1: to agree to the annulment because he is making things
19:39
Speaker 1: very difficult for them, like politically, like it's a huge,
19:42
Speaker 1: absolute fuck up. So Giovanni finally after getting his money
19:48
Speaker 1: and ensuring his protection, signed confessions of impotence and documents
19:54
Speaker 1: of annulment before witnesses, and he has to publicly proclaim
19:59
Speaker 1: that her virginy he is intact. So while the annulment
20:02
Speaker 1: sort of negotiations are happening, Lucrezia is retired to a
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Speaker 1: convent at the convent of San Sisto in Rome. So Lucrezia,
20:11
Speaker 1: she's just kicking about the convent, chilling out, being you know, pious,
20:16
Speaker 1: seventeen year old, and next thing you know, her brother
20:19
Speaker 1: Juan found murdered in the Tiber Cizari. He becomes a
20:24
Speaker 1: cardinal in his late teens, like a teenage cardinal. Are
20:29
Speaker 1: you fucking kidding me? If that's not a sign in epotism,
20:32
Speaker 1: I don't know what is. So he is very quickly
20:35
Speaker 1: gaining a ridiculous amount of power, and he becomes a
20:38
Speaker 1: military chief of the papal states. And it's like the
20:42
Speaker 1: area in central Italy that's around Rome that it's kind
20:45
Speaker 1: of under direct papal control. Really yeah, fuck no, bollocks,
20:51
Speaker 1: Arse Chesire, his name is Chesiie. I've been calling him
20:56
Speaker 1: cesare as in like Cicero. This whole why it's Caesar.
20:59
Speaker 1: You know what I've done. I've conflated Caesar with Chesiret.
21:03
Speaker 1: It's fine, it's fine. I've acknowledged my mistake. I'm not
21:08
Speaker 1: going back to rerecord all the times I've said his
21:10
Speaker 1: name because I'm an hour in. It's not happening. No,
21:13
Speaker 1: So Chesiret, fuck me. Chesiret is the So yeah, he's
21:19
Speaker 1: in charge of like the Pope's armies, like cool, and
21:23
Speaker 1: he's trying to like get in with Carlotta, who's the
21:26
Speaker 1: daughter of the Neapolitan king. So yeah. Chesiret finally decides
21:31
Speaker 1: that it's time for Lucrezia to leave the lovely seclusion
21:36
Speaker 1: of the Sansis to convent because, forever pursuing their own interest,
21:41
Speaker 1: the Borgiaz decide that she's gonna get hitched again yay,
21:46
Speaker 1: And they decide that the illegitimate son of the King
21:50
Speaker 1: of Naples, Alfonso of Aragon, is the way to go.
21:54
Speaker 1: So it's fourteen ninety eight and Lucrezia and Alfonso get
21:58
Speaker 1: married in the Vatican. According to all sources, the two
22:03
Speaker 1: of them were actually wanting to marry each other, as
22:06
Speaker 1: opposed to, you know, as opposed to her being forced
22:09
Speaker 1: into a marriage it's nice when there's some enthusiasm and
22:13
Speaker 1: you're not being forced into an unpleasant arranged marriage. Soretia,
22:17
Speaker 1: she's eighteen at this point, and Alfonso's like a wee
22:20
Speaker 1: bit younger than her, but he's also apparently easy on
22:23
Speaker 1: the eye, Apparently he's quite he's quite hot, and he's
22:26
Speaker 1: not an idiot, which is nice. So he's smart and
22:30
Speaker 1: he's handsome, which you know, considering that she went from
22:33
Speaker 1: being forced to marry someone much older than her. So
22:36
Speaker 1: they end up having a rather pleasant marriage, short but pleasant,
22:42
Speaker 1: like partly they were quite happy together, so like basically
22:45
Speaker 1: a year later, the Cretzia gives birth. She has a
22:47
Speaker 1: son called Rodrigo, who she names after her father, which
22:50
Speaker 1: is you know, as as one does. You know, they
22:53
Speaker 1: had a child, they had a happy marriage, but unfortunately,
22:58
Speaker 1: because of Chesire, things just fucking fall apart, because Lacretzy
23:03
Speaker 1: is happiness means absolutely fuck all to anybody, and of
23:07
Speaker 1: course the Borgia's being the vicious political fuck quits that
23:11
Speaker 1: they are decided, nah, this ain't working for us. So
23:15
Speaker 1: the Pope like he's trying to negotiate a marriage between
23:18
Speaker 1: Carlotta of Naples and Cesirae and when that doesn't happen,
23:21
Speaker 1: he decides to align with his enemy France. So the
23:26
Speaker 1: new French King, Louis the twelfth ends up being his
23:29
Speaker 1: new buddy, and Chesurey marries Charlotte Delbrary, daughter of the
23:33
Speaker 1: Duke of Delberry, and who's somehow related to the French king.
23:40
Speaker 1: I don't know how bo she is. So anyway, Borgias
23:42
Speaker 1: are aligned with France and are in complete opposition to Naples. Basically,
23:49
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, no, you didn't do what we wanted
23:52
Speaker 1: you to do. Well, now we're going to fuck your
23:53
Speaker 1: shit up. And so Lucrezia's husband, Alfonso becomes a political
23:58
Speaker 1: liability in the eyes of the Borges, and as we
24:02
Speaker 1: know from Lucretzia, she's not afraid to stand up for
24:05
Speaker 1: her man and be like, save yourself. So it's getting
24:08
Speaker 1: close to like the year fifteen hundred and the pope
24:12
Speaker 1: he's still visiting astrologers and shit, and they're like, whoa dude,
24:16
Speaker 1: careful oo, misfortune is coming. So yeah, in June fifteen hundred,
24:22
Speaker 1: there's a paper meeting going on and apparently a gust
24:27
Speaker 1: of one hits a chimney, The chimney falls down kills
24:29
Speaker 1: three people and injures Pape Alexander and Lucretzia. Being the
24:34
Speaker 1: kind considerate daughter that she is, she goes to the
24:37
Speaker 1: Vatican and she's taking care of her her wounded father.
24:40
Speaker 1: And while she's there looking after him, Alfonso and his
24:44
Speaker 1: entire entourage are attacked by a large group of knife
24:49
Speaker 1: wielding henchmen on the steps of the Varican So they're
24:52
Speaker 1: all getting stabbed step step, and because Alfonso is like
24:57
Speaker 1: really fucking wounded because he has been stabbed like a
25:00
Speaker 1: cheese hedgehog. So Lucrezia she goes to her husband and
25:04
Speaker 1: she starts personally taking care of him, and she is
25:08
Speaker 1: doing everything in her power to protect her husband. So
25:11
Speaker 1: she's preparing his food for him. She's calling in the
25:15
Speaker 1: most trusted doctors from Naples. She is covering her bases.
25:19
Speaker 1: Even her father, Popa Alexander orders well guards to stand
25:24
Speaker 1: watch outside of Alfonso's room, and of course rumors are
25:28
Speaker 1: spreading like everyone thinks that chesire is behind it, and
25:34
Speaker 1: pamphlets are released, so they were like people are literally
25:39
Speaker 1: spreading pamphlets with shit like Chesiree said, what won't happen
25:44
Speaker 1: at lunch will happen at dinner, meaning that we didn't
25:47
Speaker 1: get him the first time around. So like the fact
25:49
Speaker 1: that he's doing this. It's very strange though, because if
25:53
Speaker 1: he was involved in the plot, why would he be
25:56
Speaker 1: protecting him. It's very interesting. So a month later, when
26:00
Speaker 1: Alfonso was still recuperating, someone enters Alfonso's room and as
26:05
Speaker 1: he lays in bed, wounded from being incredibly stabbed, he
26:09
Speaker 1: is strangled to death and Lucretzia is absolutely distraught. She
26:14
Speaker 1: is heartbroken. She loved him, she cared for him, which
26:19
Speaker 1: is incredible considering the fact that it was an arranged marriage.
26:24
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, I forgot to mention this. Actually,
26:27
Speaker 1: So in fourteen ninety eight, before she gets married, when
26:32
Speaker 1: she's released from like the fucking convent, she shows up
26:35
Speaker 1: with this like three four year old boy, and the
26:38
Speaker 1: rumor mill obviously goes, oh, it must be her illegitimate
26:41
Speaker 1: son that she had in the convent. Okay, but like
26:45
Speaker 1: two people bills get released, one saying that it's Chesare's son,
26:49
Speaker 1: and then another being like, actually, no, it's it's the
26:52
Speaker 1: Pope's it's the Pope's son. So whips sorry ha ha ha.
26:56
Speaker 1: Probaly having the initial scandal was to go look, it's
26:59
Speaker 1: by him, and then I went, fuck it, no mine,
27:02
Speaker 1: It's okay. So, while Locretzia is still hanging about the Vatican,
27:06
Speaker 1: this pisses so many people off, apparently because she's allowed there. So,
27:12
Speaker 1: because Lucrezia was incredibly well educated and she was genuinely intelligent,
27:17
Speaker 1: her father felt he could trust her because well, he's
27:20
Speaker 1: a man and she's women, so she was obviously going
27:22
Speaker 1: to do what he told her to do. So anyhow,
27:23
Speaker 1: because she's like taking care of correspondence for fat for
27:27
Speaker 1: the Vatican City and basically takes care of the place
27:30
Speaker 1: whenever the Pope was away, like that's what she was doing.
27:33
Speaker 1: And so the fact that she was in the Vatican
27:37
Speaker 1: and she was and doing work that they deemed only
27:39
Speaker 1: appropriate for men, this led to like a massive sort
27:43
Speaker 1: of disrespect and hatred towards her. Lucrezia and her ladies
27:47
Speaker 1: in waiting are allowed into Saint Peter's Basilica. This was scandalous,
27:51
Speaker 1: that a woman in the Vatican was disastrous and evil
27:55
Speaker 1: and vicious and so on and so forth. And the
27:58
Speaker 1: following year, room start to spread about the banquet of chestnuts.
28:03
Speaker 1: Now we don't even know if this actually happened, but
28:05
Speaker 1: it's it's weird. So the banquet of chestnut was like this.
28:10
Speaker 1: So Chesawy holds this banquet and he invites fifty courtesans
28:15
Speaker 1: into his apartments in the Palazzo Apostilico. After dinner, chestnuts
28:21
Speaker 1: are thrown onto the floor and the Cortizans are made
28:24
Speaker 1: to crawl on their hands and needs to forage for
28:27
Speaker 1: chestnuts and ends up being this big orgy and apparently
28:31
Speaker 1: Lucrezia was there because yeah, but like, there's no definitive
28:36
Speaker 1: proof this actually happened let alone, and the timeline doesn't
28:40
Speaker 1: really make sense for Lacretzia to be there. But still
28:43
Speaker 1: so after her husband dies, she is just absolutely fucking devastated.
28:49
Speaker 1: So the twenty year old widow is mourning. So she
28:54
Speaker 1: decides to get the heck out of Dodge on heads
28:57
Speaker 1: to Nepi, which is like north of Rome. And when
29:00
Speaker 1: she's there, she's properly in mourning, like to the point
29:05
Speaker 1: where she's sending her letters in Forlisishima, which basically means
29:09
Speaker 1: the extremely unhappy one. But Chesar and Alexander they do
29:14
Speaker 1: not give an actual fack because if she's not being
29:18
Speaker 1: useful to them, they don't care. And instead of you know,
29:22
Speaker 1: trying to make her life easier or giving her some support,
29:26
Speaker 1: they think, ah, let's marry her off again, because we
29:29
Speaker 1: need alliances and we need to use her to benefit us.
29:33
Speaker 1: Instead of thinking how can we take care of our
29:36
Speaker 1: sister slash daughter, they think, how can we use her
29:40
Speaker 1: to benefit us? Yes? Again, And so the two of
29:44
Speaker 1: them are striving and can ivan and they decide on
29:47
Speaker 1: Alfonso Deste, a twenty four year old widower and heir
29:51
Speaker 1: to the Duke of Fererra. And not only did he
29:54
Speaker 1: not have any children of his own, which was super handy,
29:58
Speaker 1: so there was no one to there was no one
30:00
Speaker 1: to slaughter to, you know, to ensure there was no
30:03
Speaker 1: arguments over inheritance. And his family seat was strategically beneficial
30:10
Speaker 1: because he's in Romagna in northern Italy and his family
30:15
Speaker 1: they also have like really strong ties with France. So
30:18
Speaker 1: like all the alliances all pan out. But you know,
30:21
Speaker 1: because of Lacretzia's reputation as a result of you know, scheming,
30:25
Speaker 1: hourseholes and horrific.
30:27
Speaker 3: Men who just like to real women's lives to benefit themselves,
30:31
Speaker 3: the Duke of Ferrera has to send a delegation to
30:34
Speaker 3: basically ensure that the claims against Lacretzia are unfounded.
30:40
Speaker 1: And so the ambassadors go and they're like, yeah, no,
30:43
Speaker 1: she's good, she's really wise, and she's no tend to
30:47
Speaker 1: love here. H. So Lacretzia marries Alfonso two point zero
30:52
Speaker 1: in December fifteen oh one, and in January she leaves
30:56
Speaker 1: Rome for Fererra to be with her husband. So when
31:00
Speaker 1: Zia leaves Rome to move to Ferira, she has to
31:05
Speaker 1: basically abandon her son, Rodrigo, and so she entrusts him
31:09
Speaker 1: to Francesco Borgia. She never sees him again actually, and
31:14
Speaker 1: Rodrigo he inherits all of the ship and all the
31:17
Speaker 1: titles and properties and everything that was his father's. He
31:20
Speaker 1: inherits all, you know, upon his father's death, which is yeah, typical,
31:24
Speaker 1: but yeah, Rodrigo she never saw again. So after Lucrezia
31:30
Speaker 1: leaves for Fererra to be with her husband in like January,
31:33
Speaker 1: her father Popa Alexander the sixth sense her.
31:36
Speaker 4: Letter saying you will do more for me from Afar
31:40
Speaker 4: than you could have done remaining here, because you know,
31:44
Speaker 4: he had to just hamm at the point home that
31:46
Speaker 4: his interests portant in her happiness far away from Rome
31:50
Speaker 4: in northern Italy, Lucrezia flourishes like she brings like the
31:56
Speaker 4: talents of the Renaissance.
31:58
Speaker 1: Up to the court in Ferrera. She like a wise
32:01
Speaker 1: and just and considerate lady, and she is absolutely thriving,
32:07
Speaker 1: like she is living her best life. But unfortunately, while
32:11
Speaker 1: the rest of the Borges they're just crumbling. It's like
32:15
Speaker 1: a year later, Papa Alexander he dies, probably from malaria,
32:19
Speaker 1: but like everyone thinks poisoned. Ah, because of course it's
32:24
Speaker 1: somebody big dies, so there's always a conspiracy. So yeah,
32:29
Speaker 1: Alexander the sixth he dies, and after his death, like
32:32
Speaker 1: enemies of the Pope, Locke Rodrigo and the rest of
32:36
Speaker 1: the Borgia family in the Castel Santangelo and Lucrezia basically
32:41
Speaker 1: arranges a discharge. She Lucrezia steps up to the fucking plate.
32:47
Speaker 1: She starts corresponding and creating alliances and basically asks that
32:53
Speaker 1: Rodrigo be raised by the family of Alphonso of Aragon.
32:58
Speaker 1: Luckily this is granted, so Rodrigo he goes to live
33:02
Speaker 1: with his aunt Sancho of Aragon, and then he goes
33:06
Speaker 1: to Isabella of Naples, she tries to get Rodrigo moved
33:11
Speaker 1: to Farira with her. Like now that she has some
33:14
Speaker 1: power and she actually has some autonomy, she's trying to
33:18
Speaker 1: bring her son she when he's nine. She sends him
33:21
Speaker 1: a tutor from the University of Fererra, and she tries
33:26
Speaker 1: to arrange meetings with him, but it just whatever happens,
33:29
Speaker 1: it falls through, and in fifteen twelve, Rodigo dies some illness.
33:33
Speaker 1: Were not entirely sure what, but he's twelve and he's dead.
33:36
Speaker 1: And after his death, Lucrezia is allowed to go to
33:40
Speaker 1: Biskeggily to Biskegley, I've pronounced that wrong bi s c
33:45
Speaker 1: e g l i e. Someone will pronounce a broby
33:47
Speaker 1: with me. So she goes to like liquidate his assets.
33:50
Speaker 1: And so it's court and she and she attends the
33:53
Speaker 1: memorial service, and then she goes to the convent of
33:58
Speaker 1: Saint Bernardino for a month. She basically nopes out and
34:04
Speaker 1: grieves for a month, which is perfectly, perfectly acceptable, because
34:08
Speaker 1: you know, the son she desperately tried to reunite with
34:11
Speaker 1: and reconnect with and that she was separated from because
34:15
Speaker 1: of her fucking cruel, conniving family is gone. So she
34:19
Speaker 1: grieves for a month before heading back to Fererra. So,
34:23
Speaker 1: like upon the death of the pope, this creates a
34:27
Speaker 1: domino effect. For like the borges cesare, his power just
34:31
Speaker 1: diminishes and he has to flee to his wife's home
34:36
Speaker 1: in Spain and he dies in like fifteen or seven. However, Lucrezia,
34:42
Speaker 1: she's in Fererra, like she had a massive impact there.
34:46
Speaker 1: They say that she's full of life and joy, is
34:48
Speaker 1: really intelligent, most pleasant, which is one of my favorite compliments,
34:52
Speaker 1: and she brings poets and artists and really promotes like humanism,
34:59
Speaker 1: like the gener the day they said that she was
35:02
Speaker 1: like that she was an honor to womanhood because of
35:04
Speaker 1: her beauty and her honesty, which you know is probably
35:07
Speaker 1: the best compliment you're going to get in fifteen hundreds Italy.
35:11
Speaker 1: So she has a relatively happy marriage during this marriage
35:15
Speaker 1: to Alfonso. She has eight, like seven eight known children
35:20
Speaker 1: during this this marriage, but her pregnancies are complicated. There
35:24
Speaker 1: are miscarriages. There are still worth so content warning, maybe
35:29
Speaker 1: skip forward twenty seconds if you don't want to hear this.
35:33
Speaker 1: So fifteen oh two, there is a stillborn daughter. They
35:36
Speaker 1: don't name her. The son, Alessandro Deste fifteen oh five.
35:40
Speaker 1: He dies in fifteen oh five, so he only lives
35:43
Speaker 1: a few months. It called the second this Day. He's
35:46
Speaker 1: born in fifteen oh eight. Ipolito, he's born in fifteen
35:49
Speaker 1: oh nine. Another Alessandro is born, but he dies aged two. Leonora,
35:56
Speaker 1: their daughter, was born in fifteen fifteen, and she becomes
36:00
Speaker 1: a nun and a composer by the way, just out there. Francesco,
36:05
Speaker 1: he's born in fifteen sixteen. And Isabella Maria Deathte They
36:10
Speaker 1: was born on the fourteenth of June fifteen nineteen. She
36:12
Speaker 1: was born so sickly that like straight away they like
36:17
Speaker 1: she was out of the woman, and she was in
36:19
Speaker 1: a chapel, like they had her blessed, and like they
36:22
Speaker 1: were so convinced and that they were right. She died
36:25
Speaker 1: that day like super religious. They were like, we need
36:27
Speaker 1: to baptize her now, fuck And they did anyway, And
36:31
Speaker 1: it's this final birth that leads to the premature death
36:34
Speaker 1: of Lucretzia. So she's holding court up in Ferira and
36:39
Speaker 1: really holds her own there, like while everything else and
36:42
Speaker 1: the Borgias and everything is just their powers are just gone.
36:46
Speaker 1: She is considered a very respectable and accomplished Renaissance duchess.
36:52
Speaker 1: Really and during her lifetime she rises above the attempted
36:58
Speaker 1: tarnishing of her reputation. And well, even though the Borgias,
37:02
Speaker 1: the political sort of alignment of that falls, she is
37:06
Speaker 1: still standing at the end of it. And really it's
37:09
Speaker 1: only after her death that the truth really gets twisted.
37:13
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Lucretsia, she has yet another complicated pregnancy
37:18
Speaker 1: and gives birth on the fourteenth of Gin fifteen nineteen,
37:22
Speaker 1: and she's like she's really sick. She's really weak during
37:26
Speaker 1: during the whole pregnancy, and after she gives birth, she
37:30
Speaker 1: gets horrifically ill and and you know, so like they've
37:33
Speaker 1: got all the best physicians in there, and they're you know,
37:36
Speaker 1: working around the clock, and she after a couple of
37:38
Speaker 1: days she seems to be recovering, and then after that
37:43
Speaker 1: she just gets worse. It just turns and she just
37:47
Speaker 1: gets worse and worse. Her health is just waning over
37:51
Speaker 1: the next eight days, and so ten days after the
37:55
Speaker 1: birth and death of her daughter, she dies on the
37:58
Speaker 1: twenty fourth of Gin teen nineteen from pregnancy and childbirth.
38:03
Speaker 1: So when the Cretzia passes, Alfonso Duco Ferrera cries bitterly,
38:09
Speaker 1: like he sobs, like he's genuinely upset. And it's said
38:14
Speaker 1: that he cried bitterly at the loss of his sweet
38:16
Speaker 1: companion because they had a rather harmonious marriage, especially in
38:22
Speaker 1: comparison to lots of the era. And the Cretzia is
38:26
Speaker 1: laid to rest in the convent of Corpus Domini. And
38:31
Speaker 1: after her death really that the rumors really start to
38:34
Speaker 1: spread again, and like all these allegations they come out,
38:38
Speaker 1: and it's always like incest, poisoning, murder, blah blah blah
38:42
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but like there's no historical basis for it.
38:46
Speaker 1: It's all shit, like she kept poison in a hollow ring,
38:49
Speaker 1: like because apparently she's just walking down parties. She's going
38:51
Speaker 1: boop dead boop dead boop. Did that is what they're suggesting.
38:56
Speaker 1: But okay, that's no like, because they much rather condemn
39:01
Speaker 1: a woman than admit that she was basically used and
39:06
Speaker 1: abused to benefit the men in her life. And so
39:10
Speaker 1: that is the tale of Lacretzia Borgia, illegitimate daughter of
39:14
Speaker 1: the Pope Roman royalty and a woman with a scandalous
39:18
Speaker 1: reputation that was the Invention of Men. So if you
39:23
Speaker 1: liked my retelling of Lacretzia's often misinterpreted tale, please please, please,
39:29
Speaker 1: please if you can, If you haven't already, I know
39:32
Speaker 1: it's annoying. It takes a minute and a half. Can
39:34
Speaker 1: you go on to if you were listening on Apple
39:37
Speaker 1: podcasts or on Spotify, rate and review five stars? And
39:42
Speaker 1: if you're on Apple podcasts, if you leave a review,
39:45
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you say, but the moment you
39:47
Speaker 1: type in anything, it really boosts me up that weird
39:51
Speaker 1: Apple algorithm and really helps promote the show, which puts
39:56
Speaker 1: me on the radar for like you know, sponsors and
39:59
Speaker 1: stuff like that, which would be super deeper because that
40:02
Speaker 1: would be very helpful for me. It really just boosts
40:06
Speaker 1: the show from the business end and helps share it
40:10
Speaker 1: and puts it on other people's radar, and it just
40:14
Speaker 1: it just helps. And if you're thinking I want to
40:16
Speaker 1: do more than just rate and review, you can always
40:19
Speaker 1: follow on social media. I'm on Twitter as who did
40:23
Speaker 1: what now? Pd? Because there's not enough characters for who
40:27
Speaker 1: did what Now pod? I'm on Instagram and TikTok as
40:31
Speaker 1: who did What Now? Pod? But maybe you're thinking I
40:35
Speaker 1: want to give you more stuff because books are expensive
40:39
Speaker 1: and you read a lot of shit to make this podcast.
40:43
Speaker 1: You can join Patreon, so that's Patreon dot com slash
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Speaker 1: who Did What Now Pod and you can join there
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Speaker 1: and get exclusive stuff and fun and goodies and help
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Speaker 1: one time thing, just all one time that is support.
40:59
Speaker 1: You can go on to PayPal dot com and donate
41:03
Speaker 1: to Who Did What Now Pod at gmail dot com.
41:06
Speaker 1: I've got all of the details in the show notes
41:09
Speaker 1: down below, so you don't have to worry about spelling stuff.
41:12
Speaker 1: But that being said, I want to say a few
41:16
Speaker 1: things before we get to recommendations. So I'm going to
41:20
Speaker 1: say hi to some very special people, some very special patrons.
41:25
Speaker 1: We have Jamie. She is awesome. I may have misgendered
41:29
Speaker 1: Jamie in a previous sud and if I have, I'm
41:33
Speaker 1: so sorry. I'm very sorry. That's on me for not
41:36
Speaker 1: paying attention and being a dick. That's on me. But Jamie,
41:41
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much. You're awesome. Because Jamie,
41:44
Speaker 1: Jamie is an enchanting, full acorn heartling. But Jamie isn't
41:50
Speaker 1: the only person that I have to say thank you.
41:52
Speaker 1: To today. We also have Wendy and Sammy. Hi. Of
41:59
Speaker 1: course we have Wendy my Frendy, So I'm really glad
42:03
Speaker 1: to have you here. Thank you so much. And of
42:05
Speaker 1: course we have Sammy, my newest patron. Hi. Thank you
42:11
Speaker 1: for joining the Guild of Historical Descent. I'm just going
42:14
Speaker 1: to give another re shout out to Helle from Niagara Falls,
42:18
Speaker 1: who is honestly one of the most impressive people that
42:21
Speaker 1: I know in my life. Yeah, that's it. So now
42:26
Speaker 1: that we've got our thank yous out the way, I
42:28
Speaker 1: am going to give you some recommendations reading. Reading wise,
42:35
Speaker 1: I'm going to recommend you read a very insightful book
42:39
Speaker 1: called Why I'm no Longer Talking to White People About
42:43
Speaker 1: Race by Rennie edo Lodge. Watching. How do I put this? Honestly,
42:49
Speaker 1: I'm still watching the Book of Boba Fett. It's very
42:51
Speaker 1: much it's very much my thing right now. No, actually,
42:56
Speaker 1: I've probably recommended this before, but I recently rewatched it.
42:59
Speaker 1: It's on Disney Plus, stars on Disney Plus. It's doll Face,
43:05
Speaker 1: it's got like an awesome cast of women in it,
43:07
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just the kind of reerever humor
43:11
Speaker 1: that I'm looking for and stuff. So that's watching and listening, listening,
43:18
Speaker 1: listen to me more. No, No, I'm gonna recommend I've
43:24
Speaker 1: been very women centric this week. I'm gonna recommend The
43:26
Speaker 1: Guilty Feminist. It really helped me challenge my own views
43:30
Speaker 1: and the way that I saw the world. So yeah,
43:32
Speaker 1: that's my recommendations for this week, and I will chat
43:37
Speaker 1: to you next time. And so I'm gonna bid you
43:39
Speaker 1: for well, my friends, my elephants and avocados. I have
43:42
Speaker 1: an unnatural obsession with the forty elephants still. Also, if
43:46
Speaker 1: any of you listened to last week's episode and you
43:49
Speaker 1: want to be I'm still up for this forty elephants thing,
43:53
Speaker 1: I'm here for it. I'm just I'm just saying anyway.
43:55
Speaker 1: So with that, with that, I will I will bid
43:58
Speaker 1: you farewell and I'll chat to you later on Adios
44:02
Speaker 1: au revoir of Weazen my friends, Bye bye,