Latest / The SEANC View / Lapsed salary report a precursor to unnecessary job cuts

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Lapsed salary report a precursor to unnecessary job cuts · The SEANC View

0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
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I'm your host, Jonathan Owens, communications director here at Scenic,
0:06
alongside the usual crew, artists Watkins, Suzanne Beasley, and Sammy Klein.
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We have a special guest today, the leader of our pack, the leader of the pack.
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We're going to splice in that music right there.
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Junior Hewlin is going to join us today to talk about impact and elections and
0:24
how to get involved. So stick around. Music.
0:36
All right. So let's get down to business. OK, first off, I just want to know,
0:41
am I saying your name right?
0:42
Do you want to do you? We refer to you as Junior.
0:45
So you're cool with that? Junior's fine. OK. Junior's perfect.
0:49
How are you all doing today? Junior is from Fayetteville, right?
0:53
Yes, sir. And he is going to talk to us all about elections, like I said.
0:56
But we do want to get into the news of the week before we get to that discussion.
1:01
A big thing I found this week, and we've talked about it a lot,
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is the report released by the state auditor, Dave Bullock's committee,
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the Division of Accountability, Value and Efficiency, or DAVE,
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I guess we would call that.
1:15
Yep. They released a report on over a billion dollars in lapse salary dollars
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for roughly 8,800 long-term employee vacancies. Yep.
1:27
And this week, they had a hearing on that, right, Suzanne? They did.
1:31
The Auditor Bullock came along with his staff to the Joint Legislative Oversight
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Committee on General Government.
1:38
They presented the audit report, and yeah, yeah, there's quite a bit in it,
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a bit misleading how they gathered information.
1:49
What was, I guess, your overall take on the, I guess, maybe the...
1:51
Well, there's such a mixture of funding, but the overall take of it is job cuts.
1:57
Position cuts are coming. You expect that down the pike, then?
2:01
So this is kind of a precursor to that, right?
2:05
Yeah, I don't think we'd be having these conversations on this,
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you know. Yeah, it was interesting.
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Auditor Bullock said, I'm not here to tell you to cut the jobs, but here you go.
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And he also wasn't saying, in our opinion, that's not the end.
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He's just, quote, presenting facts. The problem is some of those recommendations
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go beyond facts and they get into kind of armchair quarterbacking, what should be done.
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And one thing was get the state employee salary competitive with state employee
2:35
salary in states around us.
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Well, number one, that's not your competition for the most part.
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It can be in, you know, cities or counties on state line.
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But for the most part, you're competing with the private sector.
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So I have a few questions for you. You two experts. Wait a minute,
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I want to say one more thing. Okay, go ahead.
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But in addition to competing with the private sector, you don't even have to
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go to another state to have government pay better than our state government.
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Our city-county governments in so many cases pay so much more right now than
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the state government does.
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So corrections, as the example we like to give, you could make so much more
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as a starting detention officer at a sheriff's detention center than you could
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possibly make in a state prison.
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So, making that recommendation to kind of try to be competitive with other states
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is missing the point. Yeah.
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So, my first question, why is lap salary a problem in their eyes?
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Like, why would that lead to job cuts? I guess, like, what's the argument?
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Suzanne, you want to go first? Well, I mean, I was just going to say,
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so there's a little bit of an opinion out there that that's how agencies are
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padding what they need for operations by not filling positions and using that
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money for other things that they need in the agency.
3:54
Well, then you're not funding that agency appropriately. Yeah. If that's a problem.
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Yeah. So, okay. They had multiple points. One was, look, some of these jobs
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have never been advertised.
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And that is 100% true. In some cases, it's because they have so many vacancies
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that they're having to hire temps or they're having to pay people overtime.
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There's some underfunded personnel items that agencies will use lapse salary
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to fill in the gap for. So that's number one.
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And number two... So their argument is that it's like a shell game,
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right? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And in some cases...
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Look, I mean, we're not going to sit here and say, yep, no agency has ever inappropriately
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used, or at least for the purpose it wasn't intended, lapsed salary money.
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We're never going to say that. But it is not some kind of crisis because they
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are using it in so many cases for, again, underfunded personnel issues.
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When a job's not been posted, if you know you're not filling that job,
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you can't find a pool of candidates that qualify.
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You're going to work the folks you have over time, and you're going to hire
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temps or whatever you need to do. Junior, I can tell something's on your mind.
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My question is, why don't they go ahead and give better benefits in order to
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be able to hire individuals that will take that job?
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Such a logical... And it was an interesting thing. to Auditor Bullock's credit,
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it seemed like he was saying two things.
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Number one, yep, a lot of these jobs must not be needed.
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He didn't say those words, but he certainly gave the inference that some of
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these jobs must not be needed.
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So do what you will, legislature.
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But he also said that we're clearly not competitive. We're not paying enough in some of these jobs.
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But again, what we never heard was we suggest, it would be our suggestion as
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the auditor's office that y'all appropriate more money. We never heard that.
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Anyway, there was clearly this feeling in the room that the idea was,
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hey, we've got all this money in lapsed salary.
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That's what we can potentially use to beef off what we got and then cut some
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of the rest of government, forgetting that the more you cut government,
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the more you're going to exacerbate these current problems, but also forgetting
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what was not discussed at all, reversions.
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Yeah, where does that money go? Yeah, there's lapse salary, and then there's
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salary that reverts if it's not spent back to the state.
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And the last year we had the data for was 2023, and I think it was $1.13 billion
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in what was supposed to go to salaries went back to the state.
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Well, I mean, that's a huge amount of money that went into the general fund.
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It wasn't used. It didn't go back to the state and then get used to beef up
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salaries so we didn't lose any more people.
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And Office of State Budget Management said in 2024, when they reported this,
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that a high portion of that they attributed to the record high vacancy rates.
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But nobody's talking about that. What got put back in the general fund? No, they're not.
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Director of OSHR, Stacey Meyer, was also there to present.
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And she did a great job of laying out the issue with temps and also the legislation
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that's now session law that is going to allow for streamlining hiring people,
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you know, so how that'll affect what we're doing in the future.
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And then Secretary of State Elaine Marshall, she also presented,
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but she started out making the point that we're understaffed, we're underpaid.
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You know, she made a very strong point. So the theme with the folks that were,
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you know, making other presentations where we don't have enough people,
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we're not paying enough, we can't recruit.
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Yeah, I don't know how anybody in the room would have missed it that day,
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that at the end of it, no matter what was said during debate,
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at the end of the conversation, you really were left with,
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yeah, we don't fund our agencies or our employees enough.
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And if you look at what these agencies get dollar for dollar compared to,
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if you compare today's dollar to yesterday's and compare what agencies were
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funded at 10, 15, 20 years ago, they're being funded less.
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Yeah. My second question you pretty much answered, but was that how do you make
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a leap from we have all this lap salary, so we have to cut positions when there
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are so many other needs in agencies.
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But you guys answered it. So where do we go from here, I guess?
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We'll see. There was also a little undertone of surprise that I picked up on.
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Just like folks didn't realize this was an issue.
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And I know Senator Terrence Everett spoke up. We were all like,
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why is this a surprise? This is not a new issue.
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We are underpaid. We are understaffed. And you can't get people to come to work for the state.
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So why any of this information was a surprise is beyond my understanding. There was nothing new.
8:59
No, it's just a different way of looking at it.
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It's kind of like DMV. Everybody seemed like, you know what,
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this year, you know what we need to do?
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Yeah. Let's create more positions for it. When that had been what the people
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from DMV had been asking for years.
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So here we are. Yeah, that was confusing to me when we're talking about cutting
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positions. And then the one thing that's come out of Dave so far is adding positions at DMV.
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Right. Right, because we are the infrastructure of North Carolina.
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That's right. The state employees, they're the ones that keep North Carolina going.
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So why not strengthen that so that you'll get more businesses coming in,
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that there's more revenue, more taxes for them.
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And if you take care of the state employees, you'll never have to worry about
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vacancies if you give them better benefits, increase their pay.
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You know you've got a guarantee of jobs. And make it enticing to come to work
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for state government. It's not anymore.
9:55
Yeah, because vacancies. It's just not anymore. But to your comment about infrastructure, yes.
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State employees have built the infrastructure that we have in North Carolina.
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State employees provide the good services that we get in North Carolina that
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makes businesses want to come here and bring their families and grow and prosper.
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So if that starts suffering, then North Carolina is not going to be number one
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in that. Yeah, they're going to build businesses.
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One of the legislators the other day in committee said, I never hear anybody
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talk about ROI, return on investment. And I'm so glad to hear it talked about today.
10:27
Well, let's talk about that. We love to talk about that because economists from
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NC State have literally shown with retirees that any dollar you spend on a cola
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is going to come back into the North Carolina economy.
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Many more times than that dollar that you're spending. And the same thing is
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true with state employee raises.
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Number one, if you suppress state employee wages, you keep everybody's wages suppressed.
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So not only do we want to attract large businesses to the state,
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but we want the smaller businesses that are already here to be able to thrive.
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And right now, consumers are cutting way back on what they're spending.
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If you're choking state employees out from getting and raises,
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you're affecting every small business in your community, without question.
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Because back in the day, what, third-generation state employee,
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now that's not a thing to talk about anymore because most people are not going,
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well, your child needs to go to the state because back then,
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when I started, we won't talk about how long ago that was, but when I started,
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my father was like, there's guaranteed health insurance, you're guaranteed,
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vision, dental, and all like that.
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Even when you retire, you only got to do 30 years. Now,
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You do 30 years, you don't get the health benefits.
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Yeah, anybody who's hired after 2021 doesn't get that benefit anymore.
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Yeah, after 2021, you don't get any benefits.
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Those are triggers to make people want to come work for you for the state, just like the military.
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You knew you'd do 20, you got a retirement check, you got health care,
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and that's how people went in the military.
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Same thing with the state, but now you don't have that carrot to dangle in front of people anymore.
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I mean, I think Auditor Bullock's staff, they did great work in terms of this
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is really, I love their dashboard.
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I love all of that stuff. I love that information. I think they're trying to do the right thing.
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I think that the issues agencies are facing are really complex,
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and it's honestly very hard for agency heads to come in, look at the legislature
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and say, you're just choking us out because that doesn't go very well for them.
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You know, I mean, that's the theory anyway. And I also think that we hear more
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and more from agency heads that they're not hearing about cuts that are going
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to happen until their agency until it's done.
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Used to be we would go through tremendous conversations in committees about
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that kind of thing. Not so much anymore.
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Auditor Bolick did say that he's got another report coming mid-January-ish that
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he was giving agencies another opportunity to give their input about the vacancy
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issues. Oh, yeah, especially about ones they haven't filled and why, you know.
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So when do they come back for session? April 21st. April 21st.
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Is when the short sessions start. So they don't have another impromptu session before then?
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I'm sure there will be before we get there.
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Obviously, we have to wait until primaries. I started to say midterms.
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Once primaries are over, then they can actually do business again.
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These interim meetings are just, they consist of hearings, informational kind
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of thing. So no action. Yeah.
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Okay. No action. Okay. Obviously, we are in favor of transparency.
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We say it about every episode, right? Yeah.
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And this is just another form of transparency, like you said.
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Yeah. You know, I think it's the age-old story that it's a knee-jerk reaction.
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I understand it, but it's a knee-jerk reaction to say, whew,
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we don't have enough money, so let's go. And every party's done this.
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We're going to, let's go to the state employees, let's cut them.
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And yet they leave massive pools of money that no one's deeply looking into.
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And that's, again, as we've often said, that's in these massive contracts, the really big ones.
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You don't really, well, you don't get at all public information on some of those.
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How can you possibly continue to cut? Because if you cut employees,
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you're cutting the services. That's right.
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What are you doing? Like, even if you were to cut taxes, you're cutting services.
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You've done nothing. You're at best at baseline.
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Yeah. Well, I think that's a good place to bring in Junior, Junior Hulon,
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our leader of the pack, as I like to call it.
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I like that. I played that song one time when we had the pack leader speaking
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at our convention, and it's kind of stuck in my head.
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You became statewide chairman of IMPAC, and was it two years ago or?
14:51
A year ago. A year ago. Okay, so this is you're starting your second year, right?
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Yeah, starting my second. And before you jump in here, let's go ahead and tell
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folks who may not know, IMPAC is E-M-P-A-C, and it stands for the Employees
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Political Action Committee. So it's the political arm of SCENIC.
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Yeah. So I'm working on our new website, and they ask what the M stands for in IMPAC.
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And I was like, it's just employees. Like, employees. And I think it's pretty clever, actually.
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Yeah, it's a good acronym. I'm thinking we should do like a lowercase m,
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though, on the logo. But I don't know. I'll bring that up at the next meeting, Junior. Which I guess.
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So let's start by talking a little bit about Junior. Like I said,
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you're from Fayetteville, right? Did you grow up in Fayetteville?
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Yes, I grew up in Fayetteville. I've been in Fayetteville since five years old.
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Went in the military, Army Reserves, worked for the state at the same time. Okay.
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And tried to leave. Didn't happen.
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Are you retired now? Yes. Okay. So where did you work? I worked at Hope Correctional Facility.
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It's closed down now. It's funny. Our past president was my sergeant,
16:00
Cliff Brown, and everything. I started working around about 19 years old. Okay. Okay.
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And as a correctional officer? Yeah, I was a correctional officer.
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I ended up working as the PERC team and ended up doing prison honor guard and
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became an instructor. Okay, cool. Great.
16:18
And when did you become active in scenic, I guess?
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Actually, the first day, Cliff Brown introduced me into scenic,
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and I've actually been a scenic member for 35 years now. That's so cool.
16:30
Were you an active member that whole time? The first six years,
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no, because I was trying to figure out what to do at prison because I didn't
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want to stay in prison the whole time. I wanted to do other different things.
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But Cliff got me more active into it, and I've been doing little small things.
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I'm in District 22 down toward Fayetteville. Very active district down there. Yeah.
16:54
I've been the district membership chair.
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I've been the impact district chair. I've helped out with organizing things
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that District 22 does for the whole time.
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And then I got on impact more because the district chair, Debra Horney,
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asked me to take the place of who the district impact chair was.
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And that set fire up under me right there.
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So you found your passion. That's where I was going to go next.
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So where did you find your passion for?
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I have always been a person who's been down the center. I've been asked,
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well, are you a Republican? Are you a Democrat?
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I tell them, no, I'm an S. I'm a state employee.
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That's who I look for. That's who I take care of. And when I became impact chair,
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I've been asked that by majority leaders and legislators, and I let them know.
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It's not about the D. It's not about the R. It's about the S.
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It's the state employees. They're the ones that help maintain the.
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And control the state for us. Yeah, that's a good segue into just your philosophy
17:59
for impact and scenic in general, I guess.
18:02
But, you know, we like to keep it bipartisan, nonpartisan around here.
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Bipartisan. If you are a Republican or Democrat and you help the state employees, we're happy to have you.
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One of the funny jokes was I told somebody if Mickey Mouse was up there,
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I'm happy to have him because he's looking out for state employees.
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We're issue driven. Issue driven.
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Issue driven. He'd have some deep pockets.
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And a note, too, is that all of our members that serve on the state PAC have
18:33
to commit to be nonpartisan. Yeah.
18:36
You know, there's a really good vetting of candidates. Well,
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let's talk about that for a second, because I think some people probably have
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an idea that, you know, the scenic staff makes all the decisions or,
18:46
you know, the people at the lobbyists probably just tell them who to vote for.
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Tell us how it works. What I do is whenever I go to any districts,
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I let them know from first start off, I introduce myself and I tell them, I work for you.
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I am not a scenic staff member. I work for you. I talk to y'all to find out
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what you want, how you want things to go.
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And then I bring that back to my area chairs. We sit down and talk.
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Anything that help state employees, that's what we look out for.
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So how does Impact decide who to back or endorse? We end up having a meeting,
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and we sit down, we go through each of the seats and everything,
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and we sit down and determine who is best for us.
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We do interviews, we sit down and ask questions, we have our political strategists
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and our government relations, Ms.
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Suzanne Beasley and Flint Benson, to sit down and create questions for us,
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and we ask the candidates.
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Do open interviews. We sit out and have a conversation with them,
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and they answer the interviews.
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They answer the questions and everything. And then after that,
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we sit down and make that determination, who is best for state employees.
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And you guys do a great job, too, of giving us input on those questions.
20:03
It's a team effort to put all that together, to have your books prepped for interviews.
20:07
Yeah. I think my first glimpse of this, of how we'll interview anyone,
20:12
was when I think we We interviewed Dan Forrest a few years back for the governor's
20:17
position, and he was, I think he was suing us at the time.
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So we'll bring whoever. I mean, you reach out to anyone.
20:27
We reach out to all candidates. Please come.
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And if they respond, and we recommend for them to respond, that way we have
20:35
a determination on who's best for state employees.
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We give each candidate an opportunity, and most of the, some of them do not
20:44
know who we are, and we sit down and explain that.
20:47
What I'm trying to set up now is when they come to the interviews,
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we have multiple state employees there, so that way we introduce the state employees,
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so you hear from all divisions or branches of state employees,
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so they'll understand that we're a large group. There's a whole lot of state jobs.
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And in that way, you'll know these are the people you're representing.
21:09
And the fun part of it is, it's their constituents.
21:12
That's right. So if it's their constituents, they need to know where they need to put emphasis.
21:19
Yeah. If staff was making these decisions on who to endorse, we wouldn't know that.
21:25
So much that y'all know from being the constituents and living in the community
21:30
with some of these candidates.
21:31
I mean, I learn a lot from the folks on impact. That's always interesting. Yeah.
21:36
And just to piggyback off of what you just said, Junior, that,
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you know, there's an interview panel of candidates' constituents,
21:44
and that's completely member-driven.
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Every now and then, you might have a me as chair or vice chair or my past chair
21:53
that's at a different region because we're helping with the interview,
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but it's morally based of their constituents that are talking and doing the interviews.
22:05
We would miss a lot of information because the folks back home know,
22:09
oftentimes, literally know the candidates, maybe know them from the community itself. Mm-hmm.
22:17
And we wouldn't be near as successful because generally y'all have a very high
22:21
percentage rate of winning races, the person you endorsed winning the race,
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because the community's locked in. They know.
22:29
They know who's supported them. And scenic members vote.
22:32
Yes. Yeah, I think. They definitely vote. That was going to be my next question
22:35
was, you know, we've talked on here a lot recently about the role of APAC in general.
22:41
Usually people, not APAC, but A slash.
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But usually you think of, you hear the word PAC or political action committee,
22:51
you think of money first. Money, you know, money.
22:55
This is a big pool of money that they use to influence selection.
22:59
That's not our biggest strength, right? No. We do have money.
23:03
We're not going to say we don't have money.
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But like this upcoming year, we're going to be doing morally boots on the ground.
23:09
I want to be able to have organization, different things now,
23:13
where we actually start working at the polls for the candidate.
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We go around to the neighborhoods and drop off flyers.
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We're sitting there. We have a bipartisan card that all the individuals that
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we endorse, we have a bipartisan card that we have given out at polling sites.
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And a lot of times that's more emphasis because most people look at it and go,
23:35
wait a minute, you got Democrat, Republican, and Independent up here.
23:38
Yes, these are the people that are looking out for state employees.
23:42
That's more emphasis than just a straight Democrat ticket or a state Republican ticket.
23:48
Yeah. When you walk into a polling place and you know the Republicans and then
23:52
the Democrat, you really don't know who to vote for, you know,
23:56
especially for positions that you're not really paying attention to. For our issues.
24:01
Specifically for our issues. I think it's very beneficial. I think you get a
24:04
lot of attention from voters in line when you talk to them, though,
24:08
once you tell them, oh, I'm not trying to get you to vote straight anybody's ticket.
24:13
Because they're like, oh, well, let me see that. Yeah, this right here is actually
24:18
an oversight of seeing how state employees chose these individuals to help run the state.
24:24
Because a lot of people may not realize that that's happening.
24:27
But I can guarantee you that the majority of people either have people in their
24:32
family who work for state government or their neighbor.
24:35
Or a retiree. A retiree. You know, they know people, so it may not click,
24:41
you know, how these issues are important.
24:43
And those one-on-one conversations, the boots on the ground, those are so impactful.
24:48
And state employees are relatable. If you say, here's who the billionaires have
24:51
chosen, you know, you're not going to click with everyday Joe.
24:54
You say, here's the state employees. Like, honestly, people,
24:57
it is interesting they perk up because—,
25:00
But, you know, that's been my experience working for state candidates as well.
25:04
Well, 100% of state employees are your average Joes. We're out there working.
25:09
So we're always looking for something that will help us.
25:13
And NPAC is here to help. And a lot of people have money.
25:17
Yes. A lot of people have money to give. But not a lot of people have the number
25:22
of boots you're talking about putting on the ground. Yes.
25:25
And I love your vision for this. I know you're engaging a couple of other committees
25:30
within Scenic that are excited to work with Impact.
25:33
Yeah, our boots on the ground. We're going with emerging leaders and growth and expansion.
25:38
That way we have more individuals to be able to help the candidate that we endorse.
25:44
And like John said, we have money, but it's not always about the money.
25:49
It's about the appearance. It's about the connection to everybody.
25:53
Because, for an example, if me, I know my wife and a couple of friends that
25:58
are state employees, that right there is five, six votes right there.
26:01
That's right. So if you sit down and think and impact, we have over what,
26:07
for scenic, actually, we have over 40,000 members.
26:10
If you times that by five and then that's your district, that covers your votes.
26:15
So actuality, state employees can make a difference on you winning or losing.
26:22
I mean, it is a unique thing to be a big enough block if you talk about state
26:27
employees and retirees and even one family or friend.
26:31
In close races, that's the race. It does make a difference. And especially if
26:34
they're willing to cross party lines to vote or don't have party lines in the first place.
26:39
So I know we've had very prominent politicians.
26:42
Senator Berger was one of them years ago who came and spoke to our board,
26:46
actually, and said, you know, look, for candidates, one of the most valuable things you can do.
26:52
We love the money we'll take the money but what we really can't buy is North Carolinians and
26:59
Regular North Carolinians talking to regular North Carolinians about somebody they believe in.
27:04
And it's not just scenic members, which you said 40,000, or state employees,
27:10
which I'm sure that's like 100,000 or so.
27:12
It's people on the state health plan in general. That's about a tenth of the
27:16
state. They should care about our issues, right?
27:18
There's a, what? It's a huge number of people. 400,000 retirees.
27:23
Yeah, so, I mean, it's a huge swath of people that, and everyone interacts with
27:27
state employees. Loves them, or is a neighbor to them.
27:29
Yeah, and they use public services. Everyone uses public services.
27:33
So if you care about public services, you should care about our issues.
27:37
And our endorsement. Yeah, and as you were saying, you got the mispatalities.
27:40
I can never say this word, mispatalities.
27:43
Municipal. Yeah. Municipal. That's a tough one. Let's just make it a group of
27:49
cities. Local government.
27:51
Yeah, and they're a major part that we are attached to and touch.
27:56
Well, what's your plans for 2026? I mean, you know, you've already talked about
28:00
it, obviously, but 2026 is coming up quick, right?
28:04
Yes, it's coming up real quick. Do you have any endorsement interviews planned
28:08
or meetings or anything?
28:10
We actually have a meeting this Saturday. Okay.
28:13
And we're going to sit down and talk to sit down to put everything in motion
28:18
for, I call it Operation Embrace the Impact. Okay.
28:23
And we're setting everything up for that. That's boots on the ground,
28:27
that's sitting out figuring out which candidates that we're going to talk about
28:30
endorsing if we do any endorsing for the primary.
28:34
And in that way, we are prepared for the general election because the general
28:39
election, I would like for impact and scenic to cover North Carolina.
28:45
I guess this is maybe one thing you're talking about on Saturday,
28:47
but how active will we be in the primary?
28:50
Yeah, that's what you guys will discuss on Saturday. That's what we're going
28:53
to discuss, yeah. Because the primary is kind of sticky for us and any association. Yes.
28:58
Because we obviously aren't partisan. We've reiterated that time and again.
29:04
But the general is surely going to be very hotly contested this year.
29:09
Yes, sir. Yes, Mr. John, yes.
29:11
Like I said, that one, I want us, when I say boots on the ground,
29:15
I want us to be rocking and rolling the individuals that we endorse to be able
29:20
to help them get their positions.
29:23
And then that way, when they get up to legislature, they remember state employees.
29:27
Well, let me ask you a question and maybe I can bring Sammy in.
29:30
This question seems to come up like every time we have an interview.
29:35
How do we get younger people involved, particularly in the impact and the political
29:42
side of CNET, especially younger state employees? Yeah.
29:46
Younger state employees from what I'm gathering.
29:49
Telephone is the app and everything.
29:52
So that's something that is on my list to go over with certain things.
29:57
Because like I said earlier, I'm an older state employee and retired.
30:01
How important is it to get those younger folks to vote? It's very important
30:05
because most of the votes come from the younger generation.
30:09
Oh, and it's new energy. Yeah, it's brand new energy.
30:12
It's hard to get a younger person to work at the polling site,
30:15
but they're more active and actually starting to understand that politics are
30:21
part of their life. Yeah.
30:23
And if we can get them activated and motivated, we can take...
30:27
Yeah, and when they know about candidates, they talk to their friends on social
30:32
media like crazy, and that is...
30:35
Gosh, that's more valuable than standing at a pole.
30:38
We have a young person. That's like the previous podcast that you had.
30:41
We had the younger staff here talking about it. Yes.
30:45
Sammy, where do we go? What do we do? How do we get you folks involved?
30:50
You speak for a generation, Sammy. I know. I don't like the pressure because
30:54
sometimes for me, when it comes to talking to my friends about politics,
30:59
because a lot of my friends do lean forward.
31:01
More towards one side or another. So we do avoid that conversation in our friend group a lot.
31:07
So for me, as someone who sits pretty dead in the center, it's almost like if
31:12
I mention anything of politics, it's like throwing a bomb up in the air and
31:16
saying, duck and cover, hopefully no one explodes.
31:19
Yeah, that is true. Yeah, I mean, everything is so volatile right now.
31:22
Isn't it crazy that somebody in the center is the one that is considered the bomb now?
31:27
Like, how nuts is that?
31:29
It really is. I found, though, that, you know, people are very in tune with
31:34
their issues that they care about, like, on both sides.
31:37
But when you bring up something like state employees, it's more of a centrist
31:41
issue and it's, you know, you can get both sides to kind of talk about it.
31:47
Because it affects everybody. Yeah. That's what impact is. We listen,
31:52
especially us being bipartisan.
31:54
Like I said earlier, your issues that are Republican or Democrat,
31:59
bring them to us. We'll sit down and talk.
32:00
We'll find a happy medium and everything. So in many ways, scenic is the future
32:04
of America, and we can save this country from our partisanship, right?
32:10
You know, well, I do think in real seriousness, I do think we're really proud
32:16
of the way we conduct ourselves in terms of being very open-minded,
32:21
taking each politician as who they are, how they vote, what they're willing to stand up for.
32:28
And I think that's really getting rare, unfortunately.
32:31
But I did want to say you always have a certain number of retirees who are going
32:35
to show up and absolutely get vocal in elections.
32:40
As far as the young people go, one of the things I'm really impressed with is
32:43
how you're pulling in those committees Suzanne mentioned within Scenic that
32:47
are committees built around younger membership and trying to make sure they're included.
32:53
And because that is where so much energy is going to come from.
32:57
And I think that's just that's a great thing you're doing.
33:00
Those committees are impacting Scenic's future.
33:03
That's right. Because the more they get involved, I'm not going to always be
33:07
here. The older people are going to be, they're the ones who's going to take up the mantle for us.
33:12
Yeah. Those younger individuals are the ones that we need to teach what we're
33:16
doing now so that they can carry it on farther.
33:19
Yeah. Well, Junior, anything else you want to talk about? We'll probably have
33:22
you on several times this year. You're going to be very busy.
33:25
It's a big year. So we just want everyone to get to know you a little bit.
33:29
And yeah, anything else you want to talk about? Just want to say I appreciate
33:32
you inviting me. And if you are not a Impact member, please think about it.
33:39
Look at it. We're happy to have you. Where would they go to look at that, Junior?
33:42
You can go on the Scenic website and go under the... Impact.
33:47
Impact has its own thing on the homepage and then also under advocacy.
33:52
And Scenic website's www.scenic.org. Yeah. Slash Impact will get you there, too.
33:59
There's several different ways. If you can't do that, talk to your district
34:03
impact personnel or the area chair.
34:06
We're happy to talk to you or call us. Call Junior. Give your number.
34:11
You know, I feel like a lot of our members, obviously, everyone pays attention to politics these days.
34:17
Like, a lot. Especially with 95% of our people voting.
34:22
Like, you know, there's a lot of folks that would love to have an avenue to affect politics.
34:28
Yeah, and if you want to make those decisions for scenic. And I think they need to get involved.
34:32
Yeah. A lot of people will say online, I don't like who y'all endorse.
34:37
Well, get involved because you're the one that would get to make the decision. All right.
34:40
Yes. And we get that every time on both sides. Yeah. Oh, yes.
34:44
You know you're doing something right when both sides are. That's true.
34:48
It really is true. Well, it's great to have you in here, but you're not getting
34:51
away yet. You're going to have to go through the gauntlet of our question of the week.
34:56
First off, I guess, Sammy said she didn't have a huge Gen Z topic this week, except what was it?
35:02
So the Stranger Things series finale just came out on New Year's Eve.
35:08
And since then, there were a lot of people who were not happy about the finale.
35:13
They did not like how it ended.
35:15
No spoilers. I'm on season four. No spoilers. But then people all over the Internet
35:20
came up with this theory. They all turned into Swifties overnight is what it
35:25
felt like with our theories of when things are coming out.
35:28
And they created something called Conformity Gate, which was basically this
35:34
theory that there's a secret ninth episode that they're going to release.
35:39
The theory was that it was going to be released yesterday because they were
35:42
like, there's so many sevens.
35:43
There's so many Easter eggs. And it's like, oh, my gosh.
35:47
I'm like, are Swifties? It's funny when the Swifties are calling somebody crazy.
35:50
I know, because there was also people all over social media saying it's like,
35:55
can we get the Swifties to talk these Stranger Things fans through their denial?
36:01
Because that's what people are saying. It's like the Swifties have been through
36:04
this enough. They've clowned for so many different things.
36:07
So you're saying during a Stranger Things episode would be a great time for
36:11
a political ad, apparently.
36:12
No, because no one will pause it for a political ad.
36:16
Right. I'm thinking 20 years ago, Arna.
36:19
It was a good thought, though. It's so funny to watch the strangers.
36:22
Hashtag scenic. Hashtag stranger things.
36:25
Like if you binge watch it, which we've been doing, like you watch every season.
36:28
And these kids like grow up so fast.
36:31
Because this show started in 2016.
36:33
Yeah. It's been a while. They start like 11 and now they're like 34. Now they're 22. 22.
36:39
Millie Bobby Brown, she was 11 years old. She is now 22 with her own daughter and a husband.
36:48
Didn't she marry Bon Jovi's kid? Yeah, Jake Bon Jovi.
36:51
Yeah, it's like Beverly Hills Dino 210 and all those teenagers were like 40. Remember that? Yeah.
36:59
Well, that's pretty crazy. So the Swifties are looking down on the Stranger
37:04
Things folks. We're not looking down on them because I am also one of the people
37:08
who watch. Do they have a title?
37:09
Like, do they have a, like, Swifties, do they have, like, a name?
37:13
Stranger Thing heads or anything? Not really. Strange.
37:16
I think people, though, they were just saying, they were like,
37:19
can we get the Swifties in here to help them cope with the fact that it's over, it's done?
37:23
Because the Swifties go through this denial every single time we think we're getting a new album.
37:28
They might have actually regenerated a new Stranger Things with as much talk
37:33
as it is. We know there's going to be a spinoff. We already know there's going
37:36
to be a spinoff. Darring Taylor Swift.
37:38
And then they also have a documentary coming out on the 12th of the making of season five.
37:44
And so I'm like, it's not over, guys. You're still getting more.
37:47
It's just not the same. Artists, have you watched Stranger Things at all?
37:52
No, I haven't, actually. It's based in, like, the 80s. I mean,
37:55
I do hear from everybody. They like it.
37:58
It's pretty cool to see all the nostalgia. But yeah, I couldn't get as into
38:05
it as my kids and wife have.
38:07
My mom loved the first season, and then they took too long to come out with
38:10
the second season. Then she was like, I'm bored now.
38:13
It also kind of, well, I'll save that. It kind of drags a little bit for me.
38:17
I'm currently watching Jersey Shore Family Reunion. Oh, really? Wow.
38:22
All righty then. Cool. You know.
38:24
Binge watching? I have been, yeah. Well, I finished Stranger Things and then
38:30
went back to my true crime documentaries. And so I finally finished the Ed Gein documentary.
38:35
Oh, that one's bad. And the Monsters one.
38:38
And then I just decided that I was going to watch the O.J. Simpson trial documentary.
38:43
Oh, yeah. That one's interesting.
38:46
That one's so interesting because you have defense attorneys from his defense saying he did it.
38:52
Wow. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It was a crazy time. And they were saying,
38:56
because he had the dream team of defense.
38:58
So they were saying, they were like, we were sitting there questioning.
39:02
I love it. How are we going to win this case? She's just discovering something.
39:06
Oh, no, I knew all about this. I just finally decided to sit down and watch
39:10
the documentary because I remember hearing when he passed away that he made
39:14
the people who came and talked to him sign an NDA. Yeah.
39:19
It is funny. Such ancient history to you. I heard about John Wilkes Booth and O.J. Simpson.
39:26
Hey, did you hear we went to the moon? This is where we, right after the Gen
39:30
Z moment, make fun of Gen Z.
39:32
Yeah, yeah. It's a backlash moment. We do it every time. We were talking all along.
39:36
Yeah, we were talking about it yesterday. So, Junior, what are you watching?
39:39
Actually, Bleach. Oh, what is that? Bleach is an anime about Ichigo Kurosaki. Very cool. Yeah.
39:48
Since my son's in Japan, I started watching anime a whole lot.
39:51
We didn't even talk about your family. I'm sorry. Tell us about your family.
39:55
I have a 26-year-old son that's in the military, married. I have a grand puppy, not a grand baby.
40:05
Well, that's probably better. I was about to say, be happy with that for now.
40:08
My parents are. Me to do. Hey, have a child. I'll take care.
40:12
Me and my wife will take the child for three years. Y'all don't have to come
40:15
back. You went to Japan not too long ago. Yeah, I went to Japan to visit him.
40:21
He's headed off to Italy next.
40:23
He's stationed? Yeah, he'll be stationed in Italy next. So that's the next vacation.
40:28
What branch is he in? He's in the Army. He's E5 MP.
40:32
Nice. Yeah, my wife works for the state. She'll have 30 years this May.
40:37
Your beautiful wife keeps you dressed sharp at all scenes of it.
40:41
Yes, yeah. Yeah, she's my go-to because give me a pair of jeans,
40:44
holy jeans, and a t-shirt, and I'm happy.
40:47
And Mary says, no, I don't think so.
40:50
Well, that's awesome. If you saw Junior, you wouldn't believe that he's retired
40:54
already. At all. As young as he looked. No.
40:57
Very young and vibrant. Well, let's get to the question of the week,
41:00
and Sammy came up with this one, too, because I was slacking. Sammy, you do it.
41:04
So I was thinking on my way in this morning, what is your anthem for this year?
41:10
Because everyone talks about you got a song that you think of in New Year's
41:14
that you're like, this is going to be my anthem for the new year.
41:17
This is how I'm going to live my life or what I want to think about whenever
41:21
I'm like, how do I want to make my life look this year?
41:25
Well, you have to go first on that one. Well, mine's not necessarily.
41:29
So I'm I say I'm in my healing era because, you know, I'm in therapy.
41:34
Everyone needs a little therapy. Amen. And I'm working on being a recovering people pleaser.
41:40
Oh, yeah. And so my song, my anthem for this year is from Taylor Swift's new
41:45
album called Cancelled, where she says, it's a good thing I like my friends Cancelled.
41:51
Because sometimes I feel like just for saying no to something so simple,
41:56
I'm like, people are going to hate me because I said no to going to this one party.
42:01
And so I'm just like, you know what? If I get canceled for saying no to things,
42:05
who cares? What about you, Suzanne?
42:10
I said you had something. Well, I mean, it changes. It changes.
42:15
On my way to work today, I was listening to Rage Against the Machine.
42:18
Oh, you saw that. Yeah, you throw a little Limp Bizkit into the mix there.
42:22
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I have a specific.
42:24
There's a band called The Who, not The Who, but The Who, H-U.
42:28
And they are a Mongolian rock band. So they do the throat singing thing.
42:33
Look them up. They are awesome.
42:34
But Jacoby Shaddix does a version of their song, Wolf Totem.
42:39
And that is like my hype song. There are times when we're going to the legislature
42:42
and it's just going to be a lit day. Wolf Totem? Wolf Totem.
42:45
And, you know, I'll put that song on. And by the time I get there,
42:48
I'm feeling pretty daggone good. Good Lord.
42:51
Yeah, it's awesome. That's a deep cut. It is. It's just a great song,
42:56
though. I'm going to listen to that. And interesting. It's just interesting music.
43:00
Yeah. I know you mentioned The Who before we started recording.
43:03
And each time you say it, all I can think of Who's is from Whoville, from The Grinch.
43:09
Well, most people think of the classic band, The Who. The Who.
43:12
Yeah. No, I just think of Whoville. It's H-U, The Who. Junior,
43:15
do you have an anthem for the year?
43:17
Actually, it's for Impact for me. It's Believe For It. It's by Ms.
43:22
Weiner and believing that we're going to get this done. Awesome.
43:27
That's what this year is. I have a new motto that's coming out and it's one
43:33
voice, one family. That's what Impact is.
43:37
Yeah. Love it. So I don't think, I don't know if I have an anthem for the year.
43:44
There are a lot of songs like Bulls on Parade I've been listening to recently
43:50
a lot, given certain things.
43:53
But I am trying to be a little more chill this year and a little more cognizant
43:58
of my finances and just being a little more grown up.
44:02
And I've been listening to Wichita Lineman for some reason.
44:07
It's a very chill song. And, you know, the message of the song is probably not
44:11
chill, but just the melody and everything. It's very.
44:15
So check that one out. It just takes you back to a time.
44:18
It does. It's just very relaxing.
44:21
Yeah. So I like that song. But yeah. What about you, Artis?
44:25
I mean, I'm like you. I'm trying to be more chill. Yeah. So for me,
44:28
chill is the Braveheart soundtrack. Oh.
44:31
That is the best it is because that is
44:34
the best because it evokes those feelings
44:37
of chill that i get from thinking about how all that nature yeah and how quiet
44:44
it is but how moving it is funny story about that soundtrack and then i'll i'll
44:51
hush but my first wedding i've been married twice to get that out of the way
44:54
but my first wedding i had the big you know beautiful wedding
44:58
and the music from the soundtrack of Braveheart was my music.
45:01
Oh, like Rose and Thistle?
45:02
Yeah. I came down the aisle to, well, it was Braveheart and First Night,
45:06
but I came down the aisle to Queen Guinevere's Wedding March.
45:09
I can so see you doing that. Yes, I had a crown.
45:11
I'll probably be doing a Taylor Swift song. Oh, no doubt. No doubt.
45:16
That's a great soundtrack. Yeah, Braveheart's soundtrack is so beautiful.
45:18
Oh, I got to check that out then.
45:20
Braveheart. I can't see how that would be chill because it's all about Scottish battles. Yeah.
45:27
Most of the music's really very mellow. Kind of like Gaelic songs?
45:31
Like, is it like... I mean, most of it, to be honest, is instrumental.
45:35
Oh, I think it's funny. You guys are trying to be more chill,
45:37
and I'm trying to be less chill. Yeah.
45:40
I think I'm just trying to be a little more, like, appreciative.
45:44
We're to the point, Stacey. Just Stacey. Stacey. New name?
45:49
Not even close to Sam. Yeah, at all. Except for the S.
45:53
We're to the point where we have to make sure we don't have a stroke.
45:57
That's right. Try to keep our heart rate.
46:00
That's where we are in life. We got to chill. Yeah. You're young and vibrant. You can have fun. Yeah.
46:06
It may cost us. Or get mad as hell. One the other. Yeah, by the end of the year,
46:11
I'm sure we won't. Oh, it'll be. There will be no more to be.
46:14
By the end of the month. By April, yeah, especially in April.
46:17
I forgot Track 5 from Braveheart.
46:21
We're there at Bannockburn and tearing everybody up.
46:25
Awesome. Well, thanks for coming in, Junior. It's a pleasure to have you here.
46:29
Always fun to talk to you, and everyone enjoy their week.