Latest / Skin Anarchy / Exploring Non-Surgical Dermatology and the Golden Ratio with Pioneer Dr. Janet Allenby

Transcript

Exploring Non-Surgical Dermatology and the Golden Ratio with Pioneer Dr. Janet Allenby · Skin Anarchy

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Alanby.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Extra, and I have such a phenomenal guest for you today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to be interviewing her and also most importantly to learn from her.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Janet Allenby.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She is a highly experienced um dermatologist, board uh certified dermatologist, and she has been practicing for such a long time and has seen all sorts of patients done such amazing work and her practice.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: So uh without further ado, um, you know, welcome to the show, Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Allenby.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: NACTA, thank you for having me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm excited to talk about uh the aesthetic world.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm excited to talk to you because you have such an a unique approach, you know.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you kind of favor the non-uh surgical route, you know, for some uh some of your uh patients and you know the way you approach just dermatology as a whole.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to learn about that.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd love for you to kind of walk us down memory lane and tell us about how you got into medicine and what led to that and just the whole career journey.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you could walk us down memory.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can talk and talk and talk, so you can always cut me off if I'm going a little long here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so um in medical school, I I wasn't a hundred percent sure I loved uh every specialty, which we we do tend to like everything when we're in medical school, but dermatology really stood out to me.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a very visual field.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's just so many different diseases people can have.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really intriguing as far as dermatology.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've been in practice close to I'm a little under 30 years.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there was not such a thing as cosmetic dermatology back in my day.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was more dermatology.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I started in dermatology and kind of grew up with cosmetic dermatology.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I was one of the first people to do CO2 laser back in 1995 down in Miami, and it definitely was a whole experience because that was just kind of the very beginning of the evolution of aesthetics and non-surgical procedures.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it it really has been such a wonderful trip, and it is, you know, the goals have always been how do I improve people's lives?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do I make them feel better about themselves?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when we look better, we feel better, you know, and that's kind of I find that for myself and I find it for my patients.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, most of my patients really become my friends, and you know, you always want the best for them.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of been always my search is how do I make all of us better at the end of the day?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the way you phrase that because I think in medicine, it's you know, with all of the technologies, you know, I think uh once at some point somebody told me in my training, they said, you know, Western medicine, we are we stand out because we have all the tech, you know, we have all the high-end equipment, we have all these like options that are at our fingertips, right?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just about learning the right techniques and the right way to utilize them for patient care.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes it's hard to see that, you know, in the realm of medicine, the way I see it, at least from my perspective, you know.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when I'm talking to, you know, just experts like you, like I I really value that because it's like right now, the world we're living in with social media, I feel like everyone thinks I need to go get that surgical procedure or I need to go get this or you know, get someone to inject my face with something.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then the realm of like true dermatology, I feel like gets lost in that, you know, and and correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, no one talks about the intricate details of, you know, what goes behind some of the pathologies that you see, you know, day in and day out, how to fix them, or you know, how to not go down that more drastic route, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of just like someone just, you know, perform a surgery or do a procedure.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really interested to learn about that from you.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know you mentioned lasers, but could you kind of tell us about some of the techniques that you uh utilize pretty frequently in your practice?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you know, I think you said it so eloquently.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and you are coming forward from a medical background, meaning when I when cosmetic dermatology, I mean, I kind of call this happy medicine.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we aren't really dealing with life and death situations like you are.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: We are dealing with very um important things that that cause fragility to our emotions and how we interact with people.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as much as it's not a critical time, you know, uh event, it's more something that this is something to help them interact, help them socialize, help them be more confident.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I call it the happy medicine.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't do regular dermatology anymore.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've did it for probably 20 plus years uh with also doing uh in-office surgery.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I do is pretty much now just non-surgical aesthetics, which incorporates lasers.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably the most frequent thing I really do do is fillers.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as time goes on, and you know, the Botox type drugs, um, it really is kind of the combination and how to utilize, like you said, the technology to its best extent.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, a little this, a little that.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, you know, making a recipe.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, your grandmother's recipe isn't just tomato sauce and noodles to make uh spaghetti.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh this and that and all the little pieces that go together.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's so true.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, dermatology is so interesting because, like you said, it is tied so closely to mental health, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it is about that, like, you know, getting results, but then it you see that impact, you know, for a long time.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's really, really intriguing that you've worked with lasers so much.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think right now um it's really interesting because I keep seeing a lot of companies, like I and I don't know how you feel about this, but like a lot of like brands that are just normal OTC brands for skincare are coming out with like LED devices and you know, like lasers and all this stuff.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just keep wondering, I'm like, just go to go to an expert, you know, like just do that because to me, lasers are scary, you know, they are, unless someone pro a professional is handling them.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you, you know, what are some of the some of the misconceptions or something you might have seen, you know, along the way?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know you've been cited by such amazing publications.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've you know, you've published medical work, and I would love to get your opinion on that, you know, the use of something like lasers at an you know in your own home by yourself.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's uh that is a tough one because um, you know, lasers themselves, true lasers, are only in the hands of a professional, and that's actually medical legal.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there are certain states that allow a little more uh ability for some people to use things um of a higher technology, which maybe they shouldn't, but like in Florida, if I'm gonna use a true laser, it has to be either what I call mid-level, which is a nurse practitioner or uh physician's assistant, or a doctor myself.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that is really true laser, or even something we call IPL, which is intense pulse light, which is kind of a version of laser.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have things like you reference like the LED lights, which are not really those are those are nice treatments.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll use a red light, um, the LED light to kind of calm down inflammation.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody has like a treatment, sometimes it'll kind of calm their skin down on their way out the office.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that I would say, is this gonna be your panacea of wow?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it's not, but thank goodness it's not probably a fortune when you buy it over the counter.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so some of these things have some merit, but they are definitely not the same level or quality.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like skincare.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the stuff we carry in the office is more medical grade.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It has a lot of science behind it, you know, and you can go to the drugstore and buy things and you get a sump relief, but you're probably not gonna get the same medical grade level.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And almost for the same amount of money, you can probably get a better treatment at the end of the day using things that are a little more qualified and have had, you know, at least, you know, in the device world, FDA approval, um, you know, at least you know they're not gonna hurt you at the end of the day.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in the hands of a professional who can actually utilize these to the best of their ability.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I it makes so much sense.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it's it's interesting your your analogy.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with it.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think um it was very later for me personally.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if anyone can relate that's tuning in, but I discovered, like, for example, medical grade skincare very late, you know, in my journey with my skin journey.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember like that drastic difference, you know, seeing that response that my skin had and being like, why was I not doing this all along?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like instead of spending thousands at the at the drugstore or, you know, at these retail stores.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I want to ask you, Dr.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nellby, I know facial balancing is kind of trending right now on social media, and I want to learn about that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know much about it.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you could, could you give us like a 101 on like what is facial balancing and why does it matter?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, um, it is interesting.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I base my whole practice and has been for the entire aesthetic career that I've had.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Facial balancing is keystone to good aesthetics.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I'm so glad it is something trending because at least people start understanding that proportionality is the key to attractiveness.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have a balanced appearance, it our brain doesn't like it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: It likes balance, it likes certain proportions.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's something I use in the office, it's called the Phi Ratios, P H I.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it is it's really it's considered the golden ratio.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And plastic surgeons have known uh many years about the golden ratio.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh dermatologists, we kind of clued in probably about 15 years ago.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think the rest of the world, they've seen some apps that give you the golden ratio, and you can put your face in there and you can take a picture, and it kind of can morph you into what you kind of should be if your face was really following the golden ratio.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, not too many people are born with the golden ratio, and you kind of know who those people are.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the people that are just you can't not look at them and just like, oh my god, you're so attractive.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, with men and women both, it's just you know, you look at them and you're like, I don't know why I'm just having endorphins and dopamine and all the great things that bathe your brain and say, This is wonderful.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you look at these people and your your brain is telling you, I really like this, it's why.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you start mapping them out with a one to one point six one eight is the is the ratio out, there are dimensions that they will fit into, and it's classic.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is um, it's been around.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: The Greeks were the actually the ones that kind of put it into the books, you know.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: They probably had it even prior to that time period, but you know, it's it's something that kind of came out like um like Michelangelo and Leonard Leonardo da Vinci, they are definitely known for utilizing the golden ratio in a lot of their paintings, um, and buildings and flowers, and it's just like everything you even like uh a Stradivarius violin, if you measure it out, it actually follows the golden ratio in its dimensions.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's cool.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is that's so interesting because I yeah, I play violin, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's so interesting that you brought up, you know, the artists because we we've I think we all know about this, you know, the idea of like that proportionality and like symmetry, but we don't understand it.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is such a unique angle to look at it from from the you know the angle of cosmetic dermatology because you know, like if you are, I mean, say a patient comes to your office and they are looking to avail the benefits of this, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and they they say, you know, Dr.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Allenby, I want to be, you know, whatever the the standard is for following this ratio, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what would you do?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: What was what is your initial approach to patients and and getting them to, I guess, fall into this as you know, as closely as possible to the ratio?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so what I do is actually most of my patients at this point in my career, they come in and they ask me, what do I need?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is really a better question.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, my my experience has just been so many years, and I I don't mean it to toot my horn.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that, you know, when you do something so repetitively and you hone it and you hone it and you work it every day, you realize, you know, what I you know, I have calipers that I can show a patient, hey, you're proportion, you're not, you're out of proportion here, you're in proportion here.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's more when someone comes in, they usually just kind of let me have free reign.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my job is to make them more attractive.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I know those proportions that fall in the golden ratio, really.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, proportionality leads to symmetry, and our brain just likes balance.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It it doesn't balance implies health and fertility, so when you have a lot of balance, um you become somebody who could procreate.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, our little lizard brain loves balance because it means you're very healthy and you're gonna continue with the species, is really the very basic of it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I mean it makes sense because I think, you know, like you said, you know, I think attraction and and us feeling attractive is almost like a decision made within a second, half a second.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like as soon as you look at yourself, it is something that clicks in your brain, whether you like it, what you see or you don't.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I find this to be so intriguing, you know, this the golden ratio and and you know, bringing it down to that mathematical level, you know, because I think as consumers, and from where I'm standing and the way I see people interacting with social media, we are like using these filters and these like, you know what I mean, like these external things to almost superimpose that, the same, the same concept.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I don't know if you're aware of it, but like TikTok has this like viral filter, it's called like bold glamour.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw that filter and I was like, this is literally just making both sides of your face the exact same.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, like just like mirror images of each other, and people have gone absolutely crazy over this filter, and it's like, you know, I just I wonder is like at what point is it attainable, you know, for us as just normal people?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it really attainable?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not usually a hundred percent attainable, honestly.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is funny because there's there's two ways of looking at it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: One, you're right, we want to look into a camera and see our faces reflected back.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting when you're saying with the TikTok, are people liking it or do they think it's weird?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there's like there's two sides to it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it does, if it doesn't look like you at all, then you're like, oh no, but a lot of people really like it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like usually when somebody is too symmetrical, like kind of Barbie-ish, it's almost weird.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a weird, like, like I don't identify with this, you know, it's it can be really strange.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes we like a little bit off of the 100% 10.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, instead of you're just like, hey, this is a 10, this person looks like a 10, you know, whatever.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think we actually kind of like a little less than that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: We like somebody who has a little bit of uniqueness.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's in the real world, you know.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the real world and the social media world are two different worlds.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: They really are.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think on the social media, you have to look like that because you kind of get disregarded, which is part of not following our traditional beauty pathways, is people do get ignored.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the worst things with aging is a lot of people who did get attention before all of a sudden they lose the attention and they're like, I had it, I've lost my looks, you know.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really heartbreaking that there's so much attachment to this, but you know, we are way worth more than what our looks are, but social media, your looks are just a huge portion of it, unfortunately.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think in real life it's a whole different world.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you still want to look good, but I think the the level of expectance of a perfect look is lesser.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people in real life kind of like the quirkies and the, you know, the little bit, you know, maybe an eight or a nine, you know, somebody who looks like that level of attractiveness without being like you almost can't look at them.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're so good looking.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know and I know what you mean about like that fake Barbie look.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know exactly what you mean because it looks a little scary, you know.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: If your face is yeah, it's a little scary, a little off-putting.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm definitely gonna take in that category of of people because I don't know, it's just a little creepy when someone it's almost unapproachable, you know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, I I can't relate to this person, you know.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we really we're we're pack animals, we like to relate to each other, we like to, you know, feel like we're part of the crowd without being an outsider.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think um, you know, for me, I one of the biggest questions I do have, you know, since you did speak on you know the golden ratio and and phi, like how do you measure it really?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the true measurement tool or way that you go about doing it?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I actually I have I have a pair of calipers and they're so cool.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So one of one side of the calipers and calipers are just measuring devices for those who don't know.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so one side of the calipers measures like one one inch.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: The other side of the calipers, if you just flipped it, is 1.618.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um uh it's that is actually if you look up the word phi, phi, not like pi, but phi.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you look it up, that is actually the the ratio one to one point six one eight, and you can reverse it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can go uh you could also go the other direction, you could go one to 0.618.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So always when you are flipping, like um you can look at the area between the eyes.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you measure that first, and then you can start working off the middle of the face because that doesn't change, and you actually can't modify how wide your eyes are.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you could start flipping like your forehead.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it should be basically one between the eye eyes, you know, like where your eye tears from, the punctum.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you flip it and you do your forehead, which is above the eyebrow to the hairline, it should be 1.618.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's too low, um, then like you have like a lot of like extra forehead showing, then you need bangs.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: You need to cover a little bit of the forehead.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you have an eyebrow that is um not the right shape or too long or too short, you can modify it, thank goodness, because we can pluck them, but you try to make it fit the eye.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the eye with the iris, I mean, every single thing.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even how open your eye is versus um the eyelid margin, you know, to to where it sits on the eyebrow.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's everything actually, when you start measuring people out, the bigger one that you see, like with women, you know, it tends to be like more um, you're gonna see more of the mid face is really like uh broken up into thirds or fifths.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: On a man, they look very square, like you want to see square looks, like you want to see a tapering jawline on a woman, and when you measure it out, like the bottom one-third on a woman, lesser on the outer aspect of the face, but like on a guy that you want them to look like a square block, you know.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But if they start elongating, it starts looking older, which is a different direction of discussion, which is as we age, we do shape change.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Our bones are remodeling all the time.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we do have a live ecosystem, you know, eco um uh skeletal system that you are always absorbing bone and remodeling, and the pulling of the muscle is changing the shape of the bone.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So your head shape changes as you age, you have less cut like strength in the upper bone.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our little brain, our brains are huge when we're babies, and you start actually developing into that size, so your head actually shrinks.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this sounds so weird, but the the head shape changes and your cranium gets smaller on top, and it doesn't support the tissue, so everything kind of falls down, so it elongates the face more, so you don't have support, and you're also getting more elongation because the tissue is just hanging lower than it would on a young person.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's so that's so interesting.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, this can be applied.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then I mean you answered my next question, which was it could be applied to anyone's face, like you could really analyze anyone for this.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can analyze anything too.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can analyze you know, you start uh you can have a sheet of paper with a one inch and another with a 1.618, another with a 0.618, and start measuring each to each other, you know, um, and see if you like the look of something.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you just compare you you line up the one inch and then to the maybe a perpendicular, go 1.618 and start measuring things out, and you actually see that they they line up.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everything starts, things that you like looking at will have this proportion.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: If they are too crowded or they're too spaced out, you don't like them.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so interesting.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't know you could do that.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm definitely curious because especially you had mentioned like cosmetic surgeons have been doing this for a while.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wonder if we're getting there where there's some sort of technology that just automatically measures people's face, and then you start I mean you can do it on an app.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I mean, face app is a great one if you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to see what you know, the filter, the filter is kind of doing fi for you.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can do that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have done that before where I've taken a picture of the face and I start saying, Hmm, is this, you know, is it matching up with fi?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it is.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I can modify their face to look like the face that picture, which, you know, is this uh at the end of the day, you know, we can all go down these rabbit holes.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's, you know, much more somebody who has a lot of time to think about this and they really want to have a certain look.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most people just want to look a little healthier, they want to look refreshed, they don't want to look changed, but they just want to look more attractive, you know, and that's kind of the normal patient that walks in.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that really want to go and and work on these things, you know, absolutely we do it, it just takes more time, and we really sit there and we we measure out with the calipers and we see what we can do to help them get their best look.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But even just doing simple things with calipers, you know, at this point I don't usually use the calipers all the time when I'm seeing patients because I know this so well.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I am seeing it when they walk in.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it goes for the body too.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have uh, you know, the body squad is an another um company that I have, other than Allen B cosmetic dermatology.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is also, we do this with the body too.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's why, you know, so much body work is being done now is to kind of exaggerate those ratios a little bit, you know, getting a little more booty, getting a little bit thinner waves, getting a little more breasts.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those are the things that we're always kind of monkeying with to get the most attractive look.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we know when they're out too out of whack, it's like, ooh, that looks weird.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Something's weird.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, I don't know if you remember those Russian models that were like trying to look like Barbie and their waist was like literally like right, like their hips were right, yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was kind of crazy, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, you need to go get a different life.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is like too obsessive.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, you know, at the end of the day, the normal person who walks in the door, you know, we want them healthy, we want them mentally healthy.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're looking at their whole outcome.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that is if if I'm thinking they're doing it for the wrong reasons, honestly, we may have to put the brakes on and talk about it and and maybe have a little consultation with some other specialists because we don't want to do things for the wrong reason and feed people's wrong direction and you know, their lack of self-worth sometimes that they're feeding with us.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want healthy people, but we know we can help them with the physical piece of looking more attractive to the normal population.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, Dr.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Almy, I won't lie.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of my biggest, like, I'm very passionate about people going to an expert because of what you just said.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's not so much about results.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's more about that managing people's expectations part.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're gonna see a dermatologist that has so much experience under their belt, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you're going to them for their honest medical opinion, you're gonna get a lot more than just, you know, like just okay, this is what we can do.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna tell you the truth, you know, like you tell your patients, like this is what to expect, you know, and that's I think that's such an invaluable part that we just overlook.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we always think and talk about this is the best place to go for Botox or blah, blah, blah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: But we never discuss this component of, no, you need the actual medical advice portion, like you do, because it that's where the difference is between what we were discussing, you know, looking like a plastic doll versus looking like a really more attractive version of yourself, you know, like that's that's the difference because you have someone who has the experience guiding your decision making.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that message it gets lost these days because we have so much social media and so much buzz around certain terms.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm sure you know this, you know, the medical community, we're always dealing with, oh, this term got leaked out, you know, and now social media has taken over it and everyone's you know making up their own definition of what you know something means.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that's where it's like you have to go to a doctor and you have to see what's the real deal and where you can actually gain some kind of you know benefit.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so for everyone listening, like that's my genuine advice to you is that if you are considering, you know, a procedure or anything, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: You just you need to go to a professional, like you just need to stop making those decisions off the fly, you know.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I think it's really important.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you actually hit on a very important topic, which is um, let me um, you know, like I kind of alluded to earlier, I was like, when people come in, they let me work on them because they know I'm going to give them a good look without making them look exaggerated, weird.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we all see the weird people out there.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when when a patient walks in and says, you have to fill my lips because that's what's gonna make me happy, you know, because that's what I'm gonna pay you for.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: If their lips are not, shouldn't be filled, you know, as a professional, I have to say no, you know, this is not appropriate for you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna give you a bad name, it's gonna give me a bad name at the end of the day, you're gonna look distorted.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to, there's a it's I call it mirror filling.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when somebody walks in and they point in the mirror and they like, this is this little spot here is making me crazy.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody else in the world is like, I don't see that spot they're talking about.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you try to chase a spot like that, it it's a disaster, you know, and it's not it's kind of filling for the mirror instead of filling for what the real outcome is, like you already said.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's it's so true.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know we learn about extreme cases, right?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of like body dysmorphia and all this stuff, but like what you said is so so true.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've known people, I think we've all done it where we're just like noticing that one flaw, you know.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like when you go to an actual professional, you know, they can actually look at you and say, I don't know what you're talking about, you know, because it looks normal.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of it, so the uh even to take it further, is when you fix their other stuff that they don't realize they have, they don't see the flaw so much.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the flaw is is less obvious to everybody, actually.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's really unique.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I like that you said that, yeah, because it's I think it's more like that hyper focus they have, you know, like breaking that and just being like, listen, let's focus on something else, you know.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And but that's so interesting.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I see this is why I find your field to be so so interesting, because there is, like you said, there's so many different, you know, moving parts to it.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about doing a surgery or doing a procedure, it's really about managing patients.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, I want to ask you, Dr.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Alamie, about you know, where you think our beauty industry is headed.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know there's been a lot of changes, and I'm just curious about your perspective on you know how you think things are going or where they're taking a turn or you know, anything you see happening.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's been a kind of an unusual time.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do think the social media has just had a huge influence.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said at the very beginning, you know, it really has pushed a lot more people into some drastic surgical changes.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's interesting.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't, I hope, you know, uh I can only speak for myself.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I practice to have good outcomes and it makes me a great living, and I'm so appreciative of it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing a practice to make the dollars and you're just looking at, oh, this person wants this procedure and I'm gonna do it, it's really unhealthy.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's unhealthy for the patients.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It starts sending out wrong messages out, and I think at the end of the day, everybody kind of fails, and you know, money is not everything there is to this world.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it is really a it's an interesting time.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people, because of this, you know, downtime on the screen time, they're watching everything on social media.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people did a knee-jerk reaction and started doing some serious surgical modifications where I definitely I saw it in the office.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people everybody's really more tuned to looks now where they really weren't before.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we definitely been it has definitely been crazy in the office as far as the non-surgical, but I'm seeing surgery that I think is like, uh maybe you shouldn't have done that, you know, and then I have to go correct non-surgically afterwards to kind of get them back into the normal.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, a surgery is a one-time shot, you know, it's it you it's how you heal, it's the surgeon, it's the it is you as a patient also, you know, how you heal, you know, and some people don't take care of themselves well, you know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're going to the wrong surgery centers because maybe they saved a couple dollars, maybe their aftercare was um compromised somehow.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so many moving pieces to a one-time event that you know, surgery is a huge um crane lifter.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it just lifts something or it changes big, but to really fine-tune it, you go to the non-surgical side and you do it more continuously and you maintain so you don't have to go right back to another surgical situation.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I like that you mentioned that because I think, you know, there's a lot of, like I said, I think there's a lot of misconception out there about surgery.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Still, you know, even with all the social media, all the people, you know, there's a lot of stuff that there is just no education around.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, uh it's it really is about, you know, exactly what you said, which is, you know, did you go to the right place at the right time?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so much guesswork.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's a lot of question marks around, you know, when and how did you get the procedure done?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Did you even need it?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying because I see a lot of girls, you know, on social media, and just after starting this podcast, maybe it's been amplified for me personally, but I I just see it a lot more, you know, and it's interesting.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I was I was asking.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you might even see somebody who you kind of were like, they were attractive to start with.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they are either less attractive or they look older, they don't look like pretty anymore, some of them.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I know, and that's why I was like, I literally I think of body dysmorphia sometimes.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not joking.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I look at people and I'm like, you didn't need to get that done, you know.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know who advised you, but like I know like every every doctor I know has a very like, you know, great ethical compass, you know what I mean?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like a moral compass.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I just can't see profession a professional being like, yeah, you need that, you know, like because you if you don't, you don't.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I it's like you have to like as consumers, we have to sit down and be like, who is the person that's gonna have the right advice for me, you know, in in this situation?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because surgery is drastic.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, especially with the new generation, I worry sometimes is just the person that's on the outside watching.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know how you feel, you know, you see patients every day, but like I just look at people and I'm like, I worry that you, you know, you see somebody on social media and you're like, I want to look like them, like as if you're going for a haircut, you know what I mean?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, give me this bob or get whatever.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not like that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, surgery is so, so it's so many different layers, you know, and and yeah, so lots more education needed, I think.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just um it's it's definitely had a huge boom.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think now, you know, it's kind of like any new drug that comes to the market, and you and I as physicians see this, it's like, wow, this is a great drug for this.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then after the masses are doing things, you see what's good about it and what's not good about it.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's kind of happening right now is we're kind of seeing the goods and the bads.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, as long as it's it's not um a huge negative.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I still I'm when somebody needs a facelift in my office, it's like you need to go get a facelift and then come back and see me.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is there sometimes you need that heavy lifting.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but overall, a lot of people, you know, we can do a lot of things prior to and we do them again after because they they have to maintain everything.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I really suggest, you know, uh everyone listening, please follow that advice because I think you need to you just need you need a good team of specialists, I think, if you're gonna do everything in this.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bottom line.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't have a good specialist and a team of specialists, you just you're not doing yourself any favors, you know, at the end of the end of the day.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So but uh I want to talk about your Black Friday event.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're having this amazing event.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Could you tell us a little bit about it?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um, we are having on November 16th at 6 p.m.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there will be a link that you can join us.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: We are having some amazing specials.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, we we do a live webinar, which is just so much fun because we just talk about all these different things that we can do and the goods and the bads, and you know, we're we're very honest with people because we want everybody to have expectations that are realistic, but we also want them to know what's available.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the we're gonna have gift cards um that are going to be discounted.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when they buy their gift card, they get more value when they come in their office and use in our office and use it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have we're doing more than$20,000 worth of giveaways on that night.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it is gonna be a huge one.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually um one of our bigger events of the year, so this is where a lot of people can have some great savings, and you know, the economy's been a little weird lately, and we are coming into holiday season, and you know, you're not supposed to be spending on yourself, but this is the one place that you can spend on yourself a little and get a good discount and really be able to utilize our services and let us help you get to that place you really want to be at.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, and also, I mean, do it if you know somebody in your family, you know, that wants to actually, you know, avail this, this is a great opportunity because you're doing it with in and it's the right kind of specialist that you're referencing here.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, this is a great opportunity and kind of feeds into everything we talked about.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I love it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so much fun because we get so much interaction.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna be talking my nurse practitioner.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have our skin care specialist, we have um, we have some of the girls who do some of the other device, like we have some devices that I don't have to do, and it's more um things that are gonna help them get better.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's things that are kind of that combination therapy that I was kind of talking about earlier, is it really you you do a little of this and a little of that, you know, it's not all about filling, it's not all about laser.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not one thing is gonna take you to the end game.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of have to mix and match and do it for that person's needs and and you know, really customize it for that one person.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the time where they can get that extra savings, they can get um, we have one person who's gonna get a year of Botox free.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's gonna be a huge one for them, you know.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we really like to give things of value um, you know, to the patients and let them really experience things so they get to try this stuff.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is like the fun world.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I love that you're doing this, by the way.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that, you know, this is like a it's a resource, you know, for a lot of a lot of people out there.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's uh very much needed, you know, in the world, especially like given all of the clinics that are out there that aren't doing it right, you know, or that are not exactly equipped with the right, you know, people.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the great thing about my office is in whether it's in the body squad or it's in my Alumby cosmetic dermatology, is we actually have a lot of different machines.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's honestly because I'm always like working on myself and I'm like, okay, I need to look good.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I have I have the ability to like, hey, you know, if if I use this one machine, it's gonna get a zys.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if I combine it with this other machine, you're gonna get that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just having the you know resources and having so many years, and actually, because I'm kind of in the forefront of most of what we do, I really get a lot of machines earlier than other people.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of can cheat the system a little bit and get people there um prior to some of my colleagues.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a lot of fun to kind of deliver a package that's gonna get you know, an individual, the treatment that they need versus not everybody's gonna get a cookie cutter, not everybody gets just Morpheus.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have Virtue, I have Embrace, I have all these different radio frequencies, I have CO2 laser, I have um IPL lasers, I have just, you know, so many different devices, I have Elecor.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these things are just so um each individual one delivers something uniquely different.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the fun part about this is really customizing.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it it that sounds amazing.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you have all the technologies at hand, and I think that can be also be a huge challenge.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm glad you mentioned that because I I don't think most clinics have, you know, the right combination, like you said, or even, you know, a fraction of the of what you listed off.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's this is amazing.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, I really suggest you guys join in for the webinar.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there's going to be a live QA, and I will definitely put the link in the in the podcast notes for this episode.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: But Dr.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Nalami, thank you so much.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such an honor to host you.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just you know, I love that I had the opportunity to chat with you.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Ekka, thank you so much.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I could talk forever and ever.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was lovely.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I love talking about how do we make people feel better about themselves at the end of the day.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, um, please chime in with your questions and comments and anything.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if you have any questions about the Black Friday event, please let us know.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: We will pass them along to Dr.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Allenby's team and get you some answers.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I really urge you guys make sure you check out the event and I will link everything, like I said, and I'll be back next time.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 40:12
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• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 40:18
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• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.