Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Raising Boys Who Become Men People Actually Respect (with Andre Casson)

Transcript

Raising Boys Who Become Men People Actually Respect (with Andre Casson) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: As you probably know, I have a book coming out
0:07
Speaker 1: about raising boys in the next couple of months. Sometime
0:10
Speaker 1: in June. HarperCollins and ABC Books are going to be
0:13
Speaker 1: releasing Boys, building strong young men from the inside out.
0:17
Speaker 1: The conversation around masculinity is continually challenging. It keeps everybody
0:22
Speaker 1: on their toes and people have strong opinions about what
0:26
Speaker 1: it is to be a man and how we should
0:27
Speaker 1: be raising our boys. So this has been a real challenge.
0:30
Speaker 1: Over the next couple of months. On the podcast, I'm
0:32
Speaker 1: looking forward to showcasing and highlighting people in this country
0:36
Speaker 1: who are doing a great job working with boys and
0:39
Speaker 1: young men to help to create the conditions for the
0:44
Speaker 1: boys to do the inner work, to develop character, to
0:46
Speaker 1: become the best versions of themselves that they can, and
0:49
Speaker 1: to understand what it is to be a healthy man.
0:53
Speaker 1: Today on the podcast, Andre Cassen, the headmaster of Brisbane
0:57
Speaker 1: Boys College, talk about his deep seated passion for developing
1:04
Speaker 1: young men who have a strong sense of self and
1:07
Speaker 1: are committed to affecting positive change in the world. If
1:11
Speaker 1: you're raising a young man, Today's episode is one you
1:14
Speaker 1: don't want to miss. Andre Cassen. Next stay with US. Hello,
1:21
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, where you get real
1:22
Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded
1:26
Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name's Doffs. Justin Colson, the author of
1:29
Speaker 1: I've Forgotten how Many Books? Ten eleven twelve books about
1:32
Speaker 1: raising happy Families, the host of Chanlen Lynds hit TV
1:36
Speaker 1: show Parental Guidance, Dad to six of my own children,
1:39
Speaker 1: and today I'm delighted to share the podcast with Andre Cassen.
1:43
Speaker 1: Andrea is the headmaster of the independent day school and
1:46
Speaker 1: boarding school, Brisbane Boys College, locally known as BBC. Andre
1:51
Speaker 1: has worked globally with young men and for more than
1:56
Speaker 1: three decades has held senior positions in education here in
2:00
Speaker 1: Australia and in Asia, where he's developed a leadership phiosophy
2:03
Speaker 1: granted in the belief that education should forge character as
2:05
Speaker 1: much as it shapes intellect. There's an idea that I
2:08
Speaker 1: don't hear enough. Once upon a time, it was a
2:11
Speaker 1: staple of what education was supposed to be a couple
2:13
Speaker 1: of centuries ago. Since twenty twenty two, he's served as
2:17
Speaker 1: the tenth head of Brisbane Boys College to a diverse
2:21
Speaker 1: student body about fourteen hundred young men at the school
2:23
Speaker 1: from prep to year twelve, and it has an excellent,
2:27
Speaker 1: excellent reputation in a GPS environment focused on raising and
2:32
Speaker 1: developing well rounded, social, engaged members of the community. It's
2:35
Speaker 1: a long intro, Andre, but I think that with the
2:37
Speaker 1: work that you've done both here in Australia and across
2:40
Speaker 1: the region, that it needs to be said. Thanks for
2:43
Speaker 1: joining me and having this conversation about raising boys today.
2:45
Speaker 2: Of course, and thank you so much for the opportunity
2:47
Speaker 2: to have this discussion, which I think is a very
2:50
Speaker 2: important one about how we can create good men that
2:53
Speaker 2: are going to carry our country in our world forward,
2:56
Speaker 2: no matter what the challenges that might lay head. So
2:58
Speaker 2: I'm delighted to have this chance to Andre.
3:01
Speaker 1: A little while ago, as I was putting the fourteenth
3:04
Speaker 1: set of finishing touches on my Boy's book, I rewrote
3:09
Speaker 1: the paragraph around what toxic masculinity is and why I
3:12
Speaker 1: really generally refuse to discuss it or engage with the concept. However,
3:18
Speaker 1: it just keeps on coming up. When you look at
3:22
Speaker 1: these fourteen hundred young men that are working their way
3:26
Speaker 1: through BBC, what do you do? How do you reposition
3:29
Speaker 1: this narrative around toxic masculinity and shift it towards something
3:32
Speaker 1: more positive and healthy. What's your approach on this, Well.
3:35
Speaker 2: Look, I think it's something that we have an immense
3:38
Speaker 2: responsibility being a prominent boys score here in Brisbane, we
3:43
Speaker 2: have a responsibility to create good men, as we call
3:46
Speaker 2: it here at BBC, gentlemen of honor that are going
3:50
Speaker 2: to embrace all the wonderful things it comes about being
3:53
Speaker 2: a man and being a boy. But to make sure
3:56
Speaker 2: we do that in an appropriate way that we support
4:00
Speaker 2: not only the young men in our care but the
4:02
Speaker 2: broader society. So what we try and do is that
4:06
Speaker 2: we firstly we try and be intentional and what we
4:08
Speaker 2: do we've engaged with a specific curriculum called the Keeping
4:12
Speaker 2: Safe Child Protection Curriculum that works from prep all the
4:16
Speaker 2: way through the year twelve, and it engages our young
4:19
Speaker 2: men in conversations about issues like consent, about their changing
4:25
Speaker 2: bodies and how that they can prepare for relationships beyond school.
4:29
Speaker 2: It's developmentally appropriate, so it might be a conversation about
4:33
Speaker 2: my private parts in prep all the way through to
4:37
Speaker 2: a conversation about what is consent and what does that
4:41
Speaker 2: look like in our rapidly changing world. The second thing
4:44
Speaker 2: we really try and work on is to make sure
4:46
Speaker 2: we've got good people surrounding our boys. We've got amazing
4:50
Speaker 2: staff that are here to be passionate to support and
4:53
Speaker 2: actors role models. Young men need role models that are
4:56
Speaker 2: going to support them in their journey. That old adage,
4:59
Speaker 2: if we can't see, we can't be it, and that's
5:01
Speaker 2: so important the older students. Modeling those behavior with our
5:05
Speaker 2: youngest students absolutely crucial, and of course engaging with our parents.
5:10
Speaker 3: I caught the Holy trinity.
5:11
Speaker 2: When our parents and our schools work together with the
5:14
Speaker 2: young men at the top, we.
5:15
Speaker 3: Achieve so much more.
5:17
Speaker 2: We're a big growing school here at BBC, and it's
5:19
Speaker 2: all about pulling that or in that synchronous position in
5:23
Speaker 2: the same direction.
5:24
Speaker 3: We're going to achieve so much for that young.
5:26
Speaker 1: Man, Andrea, I'd love to frame the next question politely,
5:29
Speaker 1: but when I talk to parents, they never say it politely.
5:33
Speaker 1: They're frustrated, especially the way that and recognizing that the
5:38
Speaker 1: media may be responsible at least in part for the narrative,
5:41
Speaker 1: but they are frustrated with the continual stories that show
5:44
Speaker 1: up in the media about badly behaved boys in private
5:47
Speaker 1: schools specifically, we hear about it usually around year twelve
5:51
Speaker 1: markup day. But you've got stories that have been hanging
5:54
Speaker 1: around for years, like the Saint Kevin's Boys in two
5:56
Speaker 1: rac with the awful chant on the tram, and some
5:59
Speaker 1: of the things have been over the last few years.
6:01
Speaker 1: We just hear these stories again and again and again.
6:03
Speaker 1: How to respond to this challenge. I know that these
6:06
Speaker 1: issues arise in every school, and certainly the media loves
6:10
Speaker 1: the narrative of the elite schools. But surely when schools
6:14
Speaker 1: like yours are implementing such great programs, when they have
6:18
Speaker 1: so many resources, surely the expectation should be higher. And
6:24
Speaker 1: we keep on finding ourselves in these awful holes, these
6:27
Speaker 1: quagmires of abhorrent behavior.
6:30
Speaker 2: Doctor Gilson, You've hit the point there. We have the
6:35
Speaker 2: resources and the responsibility to be better. We talk about
6:39
Speaker 2: that a lot with our boys, about being better. But
6:43
Speaker 2: you can't think for one moment that we're not going
6:46
Speaker 2: to slip up. That is a reality of the human condition.
6:50
Speaker 2: What we need to do is to create an environment
6:53
Speaker 2: where our boys understand what are the right decisions, to
6:58
Speaker 2: have the courage to make those correct, correct choices when
7:04
Speaker 2: they are put in those difficult peer group situations, and then, unfortunately,
7:08
Speaker 2: if things do go wrong, what do we do to
7:11
Speaker 2: bring the behavior back to what we want? And look,
7:15
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here for one moment and
7:17
Speaker 2: say that we're perfect here at BBC. We're certainly not,
7:19
Speaker 2: and we've had our challenges.
7:20
Speaker 3: In the past.
7:22
Speaker 2: But what we will always try and do is be
7:25
Speaker 2: the best at getting better. And that works so much
7:27
Speaker 2: better when you are clear and explicit in what you're
7:30
Speaker 2: trying to achieve as a school. And as I mentioned before,
7:33
Speaker 2: if we bring our parents along in that journey, because
7:37
Speaker 2: the raising of a young man can never just be
7:40
Speaker 2: what happens at home, nor can it just be what
7:43
Speaker 2: happens in the school. If we're working together, we are
7:47
Speaker 2: able to succeed so much more. I'd be curious, I
7:49
Speaker 2: mean mean, is that what you find in your work.
7:52
Speaker 1: The more parents are engaged in their children's lives, the
7:55
Speaker 1: more that those children are likely to internal life the
8:00
Speaker 1: values that we're trying to trying to instill. The major
8:04
Speaker 1: thing that I really try to push is that there's
8:07
Speaker 1: an internalization or an integration or an endorsement. Endorsement would
8:10
Speaker 1: be the word that I've really focused on a lot
8:12
Speaker 1: lately an endorsement of values. So it's one thing for
8:16
Speaker 1: us to stand up at the lectern and preach and
8:21
Speaker 1: pound it and say this is the expectation, this is
8:23
Speaker 1: what you need to be doing. But when we can
8:25
Speaker 1: sit with these young men and engage with them and
8:29
Speaker 1: they can internalize the ideas that they can discuss them
8:32
Speaker 1: and buy into them, I've just found that makes such
8:35
Speaker 1: a difference. And so I work with teachers and with
8:38
Speaker 1: parents on doing that. And I agree with you that
8:40
Speaker 1: three pronged approach where you've got parents and teachers working
8:43
Speaker 1: with not doing too and young men they sort of
8:46
Speaker 1: they come along with the current three legs on a stool.
8:50
Speaker 1: It just seems to make a difference. But creating that
8:53
Speaker 1: endorsement is a real challenge. You are speaking with principles
8:57
Speaker 1: across the education sector, talking with principles at the biggest
9:01
Speaker 1: private schools and the most well resourced schools in the country.
9:04
Speaker 1: But no doubt you also have the opportunity to engage
9:07
Speaker 1: with principles and school leaders in every context. What are
9:13
Speaker 1: they telling you in terms of the challenges that they're
9:16
Speaker 1: faced with when it comes to young men in a
9:19
Speaker 1: school context.
9:22
Speaker 2: Look, I think the challenges are a threefold. There is
9:28
Speaker 2: the pervasive and often very negative aspect of the social
9:34
Speaker 2: media and the messages that have been shared out there.
9:39
Speaker 2: You know, I can jump a line and give you
9:41
Speaker 2: whatever opinion on whatever I like, And unfortunately some of
9:45
Speaker 2: the people that are promoted quite highly on social media
9:49
Speaker 2: are getting the attention. The more controversial you are, the
9:52
Speaker 2: more interesting you get. So that's the big challenge people
9:55
Speaker 2: are talking about. Secondly, the challenge I think is to
10:00
Speaker 2: how we best engage with our parents. Just last week
10:05
Speaker 2: we had a session with fathers and our secondary boys
10:10
Speaker 2: and we started with a session at Sartin. I love
10:12
Speaker 2: what you said about values. The values have to be
10:16
Speaker 2: the bedrock. It cannot be platitudes that you stand up
10:19
Speaker 2: at the pulpit and bash the polpet.
10:21
Speaker 3: It cannot be.
10:23
Speaker 2: The boys very very quickly will work out whether you're
10:28
Speaker 2: not being authentic. I almost said a more creative way
10:31
Speaker 2: of describing that there, but they'll know you're not being authentic.
10:35
Speaker 2: You need to live those values and that needs to
10:37
Speaker 2: be in everything you do. So that started the session.
10:40
Speaker 2: But then the boys went down to our middle school
10:43
Speaker 2: area and the sessions were led by our senior boys.
10:48
Speaker 2: They acted as moderately a year eleven boys.
10:50
Speaker 1: That's powerful, right, because you've got these you've got these
10:53
Speaker 1: young men who are actually being models to the even
10:55
Speaker 1: younger men. Absolutely, and that creates the internalization because they're
10:59
Speaker 1: the one that are doing the teaching. That's to me,
11:02
Speaker 1: that's the what's the words, that's the rainbows and unicorn solution,
11:06
Speaker 1: that's the party pop is going off in my brain
11:08
Speaker 1: right now, because once the boys start doing the teaching,
11:11
Speaker 1: there's just a different level of internalization.
11:13
Speaker 2: And look, we know that boys interact differently, whether they
11:18
Speaker 2: say boys interact side by side.
11:22
Speaker 3: One of the best conversations I have with my son, he.
11:25
Speaker 2: Was a swimmer before he left off to university this year,
11:29
Speaker 2: and on the way to swimming training, when he sat
11:31
Speaker 2: next to me, we would have the most deep conversations.
11:34
Speaker 2: And so after that evening, when dads are driving home
11:37
Speaker 2: with their sons, well, what about Jackson?
11:40
Speaker 3: What about the way he led?
11:42
Speaker 2: And our parents are able to see this is where
11:45
Speaker 2: we're going with the previous education. So that's the other
11:48
Speaker 2: thing that I know, our other principle talking about how
11:51
Speaker 2: do we best engage with our families to get them
11:54
Speaker 2: involved and align with our values that we're trying to spouse.
11:58
Speaker 1: Ther Parent engagement is an ongoing chat challenge in schools
12:01
Speaker 1: around the country. It's something that Principles asked me about
12:03
Speaker 1: more than almost anything at all. Parents, if you're listening
12:06
Speaker 1: to this and wondering what you can do for your children,
12:09
Speaker 1: please be engaged and show up when the school's doing stuff,
12:12
Speaker 1: because it is actually they help you. Andre you are
12:16
Speaker 1: doing better than me. With the swimming conversations. My parents
12:19
Speaker 1: used to wake up at four point thirty to drive
12:21
Speaker 1: me to swimming lessons so that I could be in
12:23
Speaker 1: the pool at five am. And I was in a
12:25
Speaker 1: squad and was a pretty good swim when I was
12:28
Speaker 1: a kid. And I can tell you right now that
12:29
Speaker 1: I did not open my mouth and say a word
12:32
Speaker 1: to my parents. We sat in silence and drove to
12:35
Speaker 1: those swimming lessons with nothing but seething resentment under my
12:40
Speaker 1: skin because I was awake at that hour, so I
12:41
Speaker 1: had to go swimming my joy I wasn't choosing to
12:44
Speaker 1: do it. After the break, I want to ask you,
12:47
Speaker 1: how do you define healthy masculinity. I've been thinking about
12:49
Speaker 1: this deeply for the last three years as I've been
12:51
Speaker 1: writing this book about raising boys, and I've come up
12:53
Speaker 1: with a definition that I think is productive and useful
12:57
Speaker 1: and relevant. It's something that boys and their parents can
13:01
Speaker 1: hold on to. But I'd love to know how you
13:02
Speaker 1: define healthy masculinity. I just want to ask you if
13:06
Speaker 1: we wanted our children to engage more in education, particularly
13:09
Speaker 1: our boys, given that the data shows that boys are
13:13
Speaker 1: checking out when it comes to academics vastly, at vastly
13:17
Speaker 1: higher rates than our girls. Really want to get your
13:19
Speaker 1: opinion on how we can help boys to engage with
13:22
Speaker 1: academic content and make more out of their lives educationally.
13:26
Speaker 1: That and more coming up on the podcast We're Back.
13:36
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. My name's doctor Justin Colson.
13:39
Speaker 1: I'm with Andre Cassen, who is the principal of Brisbane
13:41
Speaker 1: Boys College. Andrea. As I struggled to get my head
13:45
Speaker 1: around the idea of writing a book about raising boys,
13:48
Speaker 1: I knew that the first thing that I had to
13:49
Speaker 1: do was come up with a workable definition of healthy
13:52
Speaker 1: masculinity to counter the constant conversation around where we began
13:57
Speaker 1: this discussion today, toxic masculinity. What do you teach when
14:01
Speaker 1: it comes to helping boys to understand what it is
14:04
Speaker 1: to be a healthy man.
14:05
Speaker 2: Look, and that's a great question, and please doctors, and
14:09
Speaker 2: you are far more the expert than me, so I'm
14:12
Speaker 2: just giving you my experience through my journey in education.
14:16
Speaker 2: For us at BBC, in order to raise good men,
14:21
Speaker 2: I've mentioned before and we've shared before, it needs to
14:24
Speaker 2: be based on very very clear values and principles and
14:27
Speaker 2: these are non negotiable. We need to make sure that
14:31
Speaker 2: we are respectful. We call it honor here at BBC.
14:35
Speaker 2: We need to make sure that and boys love their connections,
14:39
Speaker 2: whatever their values is.
14:40
Speaker 3: Community.
14:41
Speaker 2: We have BBC Boys called Brotherhood, but we're trying to
14:44
Speaker 2: be more inclusive of our entire community. We want our
14:48
Speaker 2: boys to aspire, and this is one of the things
14:51
Speaker 2: with young men. They want to try new things and
14:55
Speaker 2: be more than they thought possible, to look above the
14:58
Speaker 2: parapet and see what might be possible. We want to
15:02
Speaker 2: celebrate achievement. I think the idea of everyone gets surprised
15:11
Speaker 2: and it's okay to say, actually, you're really good at that.
15:14
Speaker 2: But what we say at BBC that there's more than
15:16
Speaker 2: one way to thrive. So you might be academic, let's
15:19
Speaker 2: celebrate that. You might be brilliant playing the bagpipes and
15:22
Speaker 2: playing at the military tattoo, then let's celebrate that. And
15:27
Speaker 2: so that to me, which is really important. And the
15:29
Speaker 2: last aspect is and I spoke about before, not knowledge.
15:32
Speaker 3: It's wisdom.
15:33
Speaker 2: It's how do we use what we know to be
15:36
Speaker 2: able to apply that to success. So if we work
15:40
Speaker 2: on those values, then we create young men that are
15:44
Speaker 2: happy to embrace who they are and have the courage
15:49
Speaker 2: to call out behaviors that are counter to what they believe.
15:54
Speaker 3: And I think that's so important.
15:56
Speaker 2: We're very happy to tell you whether I'm a tragic
15:59
Speaker 2: westc Egal supporter, and I'll still argue Black and Blue
16:02
Speaker 2: why that's a great football team. But then the more
16:05
Speaker 2: important conversations, do I have the courage to have those
16:08
Speaker 2: difficult conversation? And that's what we want to create in
16:10
Speaker 2: BBC Boys. And the last piece is we want to
16:13
Speaker 2: create men that are looking to make a difference for good,
16:16
Speaker 2: to find those opportunities where they can insert themselves and
16:20
Speaker 2: make the world a better place. And our college has
16:24
Speaker 2: been around for one hundred and twenty four years.
16:26
Speaker 3: We've built.
16:27
Speaker 2: Anything that I've done is because I've stood on the
16:29
Speaker 2: shoulders of giants. This has been happening for a long
16:31
Speaker 2: time at BBC and I'm immensely proud of that heritage.
16:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Really inspired by a couple of those things. Specifically,
16:39
Speaker 1: the concept of community and brotherhood is something that is
16:44
Speaker 1: I think lacking for too many of our young men,
16:46
Speaker 1: and hence the wellbeing challenges. But the one that I
16:50
Speaker 1: really want to zero win on actually as two that
16:52
Speaker 1: I want to zero in on here. The first is
16:54
Speaker 1: this idea of aspiration and achievement. I was having a
16:57
Speaker 1: conversation in regional New South Wales. It's some year nine
17:00
Speaker 1: and ten students just around about a month ago, really
17:05
Speaker 1: really challenged community, really difficult area to be growing up.
17:09
Speaker 1: The kids have disengaged, they've checked out. The teachers have
17:13
Speaker 1: as well in the particular school that I was in,
17:16
Speaker 1: and it was a really really tough spot to be.
17:20
Speaker 1: As we talked, I asked them how they feel when
17:22
Speaker 1: they spend the day playing Fortnite or Roadblocks or Minecraft,
17:25
Speaker 1: or when they've scrolled TikTok for two hours, and they
17:28
Speaker 1: all said lousy. I don't feel very good. And I said, well,
17:33
Speaker 1: why is that? And as we bounce the ideas around
17:36
Speaker 1: a little bit. What the students eventually got to was,
17:39
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything that is really worthy of my
17:43
Speaker 1: time and my life, and therefore, if I'm not going
17:45
Speaker 1: to do something that's worthy of my time in my life,
17:47
Speaker 1: I'm not going to feel like I'm worthy because i
17:51
Speaker 1: haven't done something like. The discipline that's required to get
17:57
Speaker 1: hard things done is the everything that creates the self
18:01
Speaker 1: respect that we need so that we can feel like
18:03
Speaker 1: we've achieved. And as we discussed that, there was just
18:06
Speaker 1: this I watched them sit up taller and straighter as
18:09
Speaker 1: they realized, Oh, you're doing hard things. Aspiring to do
18:12
Speaker 1: something that is uncomfortable is going to make me feel
18:14
Speaker 1: like I'm doing something that's worthy and worthwhile, and then
18:17
Speaker 1: I will feel worthy and respectable. It was just a
18:20
Speaker 1: really lovely moment to see these students who don't really
18:26
Speaker 1: want to typically do those things, go no, this is worthwhile.
18:29
Speaker 1: The other thing that you've highlighted is this idea of
18:32
Speaker 1: helping them to make a difference for good that aligns
18:35
Speaker 1: really closely with the definition of masculinity that I've put
18:37
Speaker 1: into my book Boys. I've defined a healthy man as
18:43
Speaker 1: one who helps those around him feel safer and stronger,
18:48
Speaker 1: not just feel, but be safer and stronger. This ability.
18:53
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with a woman, probably about forty
18:57
Speaker 1: two years old. She'd been divorced for five or six years.
19:01
Speaker 1: We were colleagues, We knew each other reasonably well. This
19:03
Speaker 1: was just a couple of years ago, and it wasn't
19:05
Speaker 1: inappropriate for me to ask a personal question. So I
19:08
Speaker 1: said to her, are you dating again? Are you looking around?
19:11
Speaker 1: Do you plan on finding somebody else's missed ride out
19:14
Speaker 1: there for you? And she said no, I have no
19:18
Speaker 1: interest in trying to find a guy. I don't think
19:22
Speaker 1: that there is any man out there who is going
19:26
Speaker 1: to show up in my orbit, who is going to
19:28
Speaker 1: be a bonus in my life. This idea of being
19:32
Speaker 1: a bonus has really struck with me. She basically said,
19:35
Speaker 1: if I were to repartner and remarry whoever I end
19:39
Speaker 1: up with, I'm going to be giving more to this
19:42
Speaker 1: relationship than they are. Not that it's transactional, but I'll
19:44
Speaker 1: be the one who is doing everything. That's just what
19:47
Speaker 1: my experience with men has been. They're takers, they're not givers.
19:50
Speaker 1: They're not a bonus. There's no surplus value here, which
19:53
Speaker 1: is a riff on Richard Reeves in his Book of
19:56
Speaker 1: Boys and Men, and I'd just thought, what a difference
19:59
Speaker 1: it would be, what a difference it would make in
20:01
Speaker 1: the world if we could raise our young men with
20:04
Speaker 1: just this. It's so easy, it's so easy to remember.
20:07
Speaker 1: Can you help the people around you to feel and
20:09
Speaker 1: be safer and stronger? And that feels like that aligns
20:12
Speaker 1: really neatly with the values that you're describing. Safe and strong,
20:16
Speaker 1: difference for good, having the wisdom to know how to
20:18
Speaker 1: act in different situations, achieving, aspiring, honor, powerful values that
20:24
Speaker 1: grow great men.
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Speaker 3: Well, thank you. And what I love is that.
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Speaker 2: These values were derived from our community.
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Speaker 3: They weren't top down.
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Speaker 2: We work with our students, we work with our parents,
20:41
Speaker 2: we work with our old boys, work their stuff, obviously,
20:44
Speaker 2: and what does it mean to be a good man
20:48
Speaker 2: in a BBC context? I love your definition to feel safer?
20:56
Speaker 2: I just I think that's Rellian. I'll give you the
21:00
Speaker 2: the I'll quote give the quote to you, but I'm
21:02
Speaker 2: going to use that absolutely brilliant.
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Speaker 3: I do hope that our young men, when they are.
21:08
Speaker 2: Out in society, are make people feel safer, are making
21:10
Speaker 2: people feel better and Hopefully your friends will find someone
21:14
Speaker 2: like that, because it's sad to hear that they feel
21:16
Speaker 2: that they're not going to get something from their relationship
21:19
Speaker 2: that is disappointing.
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Speaker 3: Hopefully the BBC boy that won't be the case. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's astonishing how many women have told and girls
21:26
Speaker 1: have told me that as they've found out that I'm
21:28
Speaker 1: writing a book about boys. It's not a one off. Unfortunately,
21:31
Speaker 1: it seems to be an increasing attitude towards young men
21:37
Speaker 1: and adult men in our community. Our time is a
21:40
Speaker 1: little bit done. I've really enjoyed the chat. Andre. I
21:42
Speaker 1: feel like you and I could probably sit and talk
21:44
Speaker 1: for several hours about what it is to raise great boys.
21:48
Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last question. Your a dad, yourself,
21:50
Speaker 1: you've got two two teenagers. Yes, if there was one
21:56
Speaker 1: piece of advice that you would leave parents who are
22:00
Speaker 1: raising adolescent boys right now or tween boys right now,
22:04
Speaker 1: and they just want to raise great kids, the kids
22:07
Speaker 1: that are only going to show up in the paper
22:09
Speaker 1: for excellence, for achievement, for outstanding conduct and doing something wonderful,
22:16
Speaker 1: what would you say to them if they were really
22:19
Speaker 1: really focused on helping those young men to be the
22:21
Speaker 1: best versions of themselves that they could be.
22:24
Speaker 3: I think, and I spent a lot of time ruminating
22:27
Speaker 3: on this.
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Speaker 2: It is maintaining that opportunity for conversations with your sons.
22:37
Speaker 3: You need to live and truly live.
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Speaker 2: In everything you do the values that you think are important.
22:44
Speaker 2: But your son, no matter what they are struggling with.
22:47
Speaker 2: It might be a maths problem, it might be non
22:50
Speaker 2: selection in a rugby team, it might be a relationship
22:55
Speaker 2: with a girl, or it might be something deeper about sexuality.
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Speaker 3: And choices that they're making.
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Speaker 2: You need to create that environment where no matter what
23:05
Speaker 2: their issue is, they can engage with you and feel comfortable.
23:11
Speaker 2: And more often than not, it's on this way of swimming,
23:14
Speaker 2: training or watching the West Coast Eagles get beaten again
23:18
Speaker 2: that those conversations will happen. And I just think that
23:21
Speaker 2: is the greatest gift that we can give as parents
23:23
Speaker 2: to our boys.
23:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, the power of connection. That's phenomenal anddre It's been
23:27
Speaker 1: a treat to talk to you. Thanks for sharing your
23:28
Speaker 1: ideas about masculinity about raising great boys. Goodluck this year
23:32
Speaker 1: with the Eagles. I don't like your chances, but no
23:36
Speaker 1: wish you well anyway. And what a treat to have
23:39
Speaker 1: you on the podcast today.
23:40
Speaker 2: Thank you, Doc calls has been an absolute pleasure. I
23:42
Speaker 2: wish you well and good luck with your book.
23:44
Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
23:47
Speaker 1: Bridge MEDIAMM Hammonds provides our additional support. For more info
23:50
Speaker 1: about things we've talked about, check the show notes and
23:52
Speaker 1: everything that Andre has said about those values will be
23:55
Speaker 1: there for you and if you'd like to join the
23:56
Speaker 1: wait list for the Boy's Book, which will be added
23:59
Speaker 1: in just a couple of months now, visit Happy Families
24:01
Speaker 1: dot com dot au m HMM