Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Dion

Transcript

Dion · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: My guest today is truly alleged the one and only
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Di diabb. It's a pleasure to be with you. Good
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to be here. Okay, you just put out to Christmas singles.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: What's the story without? Well, uh, the first one I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: wrote was, you know, it's Christmas and Uh. I was
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: sitting around with a couple of friends of mine and
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: we were saying, the world could really use a shot
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of some love and harmony and transcendence and and uh
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: peace and serenity or some togetherness. You know, we were
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: just I said, you know, I said, Christmas is the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: grace that uh changed my life. So I'm gonna write
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: a Christmas song. So I thought, now, what does the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: blues man do or a rock and roller do when
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: he when he writes a Christmas song? You know that
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a a bragging tradition. You know, I'm
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: from the Bronx. I was like, you know that, like
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the Wanderer. You know, it's like a bragging tradition. So
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I wrote a song about a guy that bought his
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: girlfriend a perfect present and he can't wait for her
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: to open it because he's he can't wait to see
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the look on her face, you know, he you know,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and that happens only once every twenty years. You get
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the perfect gift. So that's what the song is about.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So and then when Joe Bonamasa heard it, he said, Dion, man,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: you are prolific. You just keep cranking him out. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: want to play on this. So he joined me and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: we we made a little video and uh and uh.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I did the song with a few friends of mine
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and it was just a lot of fun to do.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: You know. The second song again, I I just thought,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you know, we need something to bring us together, you know,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and Christmas is my favorite holiday. I just I don't
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: know something about you know, it's it's a life is
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: about giving, and that's what Christmas is about, you know.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And I try to keep the spirit lady around. It's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the spirit of true charity, you know, like just giving
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: with it, uh you know. Uh. So we I put
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: this song together and welcoming Christmas and sharing it with
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: with people, and when I finished it, I just thought
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of Amy Grant. I've known Amy Grant uh uh since
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: she was nineteen years old. I when I met her
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: when she was nineteen fell in love with a voice.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: She had this song El Shadai and my Father's Eyes,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and so we've been friends all these years. I I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: just called her up. I said, Amy, I have a song.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And she heard it and she said, Dion, I love
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: this type of thing where you don't plan. It's just
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: in the flow, you know. And she says, yeah, I'll
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: do it. So she smiled through it and knocked it
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: out and just just she made it something sublime. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: thought it was good when I finished it, but she
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: really It shows you how limited I am. You know,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: when when uh, when an artist, any artists, you get
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: somebody that distinctive like Joe Bonamassa or Amy Grant. They
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: they they just infuse, uh anyway attract that I did
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: with such wonder They make it sublime. So how do
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you know Joe Bonamassa, Joe, Uh, it's crazy. His manager
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: must live about. He's in walking distance from me. His manager,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Roy Weisman. And I was walking one day around the
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: lake and I met Roy Weisman and we became friends.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I have a lake in my neighborhood here. It's like
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a mile and two point too, you know, So we
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: walk around and uh, we have some great conversations. Uh
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and uh, he says, Joe is coming into town. And
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Joe comes over the house, you know, and uh, he's
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: just a a regular guy, likes to pick up my guitars.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: We like to talk about the blues and the and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the history of what we're doing and the roots of it.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And we we have a we resonate, you know, with
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the same artists. A lot of what connects what we're doing,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: you know, from the thirties and forties, and you know
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: American roots music and this album. You know, we're in
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: covid era. So how did you actually do the recording?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Everybody recorded in their own space, and then you put
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: it together. You know, I put this album together. It
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: was complete. It seemed like the day I finished it,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: we went and shut down. I think, like somewhere in March,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I had this is this is the album, not the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Christmas tracks, the album with all original and all these
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: special stars. Absolutely. Yeah, it's called Blues with Friends and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I have I tell you, it's crazy, Bob. I know,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: we started out talking about the Christmas songs, but I
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: went in I had these fourteen songs that I had
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: accumulated over a few years because I was working on
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: a play and I never went into the studio. But
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I had some time. I thought, let me go in
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and cut these things. So I go into the studio.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I knocked the fourteen songs out in two days, just
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: me and my guitar. Well, now is this a studio
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: in your house or use a local studio? Would you use? Uh?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine has a studio. Right time I
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: say a studio, it's a room in his house. He
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: has a he has all the equipment, high tech equipment.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I sat on a folding chat, took my guitar. He says,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: sing them like you sing them in your house. I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: took the guitar out, I went through all the I
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: went through about eight songs the first day. Uh. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the second day I came back, I knocked out about
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: six of them. So I started, uh, you know, brought
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: in a bass player, drummer, keyboard, you know rhads. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: love roads. Yeah, I just love that. So so I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I built up some tracks and then I had something.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I said, Man, these things are great, this is something special.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I really felt it was. You know, I know how
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: to write a song, I know how to make a record.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: But then this started this. This uh something I've I've
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: never experienced before. Again, Joe Bonamassa started it. I think
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: he's the catalyst. I think it's fair to say that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: You know, he gave me the vision for it because
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: he heard blues coming on one of the songs on
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the Blues with Friends album and he he heard it
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and he said, Diane, I gotta play on this. He's so,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I said, be my guest man. You know, Joe Bonamassa.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: This guy's mesmerizing, masterful, you know, monster guitarists. I said, yeah,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I never knew what he Listen, Bob, this this is
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the This is the thing about this. It's like I
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: usually get a guitar player to come into the studio
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, give me this, give me that,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and he plays, you know, and and he fills the
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: track in. But you when you ask an artist, you
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: don't know what they're hearing, what they're they're very distinctive.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: It's like they come up with something that's not even
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: on your radar. So he picked he picked up a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: slide guitar. I mean, you know, he started playing slide
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: on it, and which I didn't hear. I really didn't
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: hear slide on it. But when he started playing, what
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I was hearing was almost like a horn section, like
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: you you could hear and his playing. You think you're
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: you're listening to the Apollo Theater band with with headed
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: by Miles Davis and John Coltrane with King Curtis, you know,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: on the side. But because he's playing this stuff and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's just crazy good. You know, it's fascinating
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: what he did. So, uh, I'm listening to this thing
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: in my house, I'm thinking, what, uh this this is
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: something really special. I mean, I thought the song was good,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: just the record I'm trying to make, but he made
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: it something spec It's like you go to the Olympics
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to jump nineteen feet at the pole vault and I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: don't know, some wind takes you three ft and you
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: break the world record. You know. So that's the way
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: it felt. So I then as I started listening to
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the tracks, I said, you know, I think I'm I
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: told Wayne Hood, who who is the engineer co producer
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: with me. I said, Wayne, I think I'm gonna call
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Patty Scalfe for this song. Him to him, she has
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: that Jersey soul. She she's like the Jersey soul girl.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: She'll add something to this song. I know it. So
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I sent it to Patty and I thought, here's the deal, Bob,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: this is the this is the great part about why
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: this album was so much fun to make. Sometimes albums
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: excruciating hard work. This thing was like I would is
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: like I felt like I was riding a wave, you know. Uh.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I sent it to Patty. I thought she was gonna
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: echo some of the lines I, you know, sang, and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: she was gonna hit some harmony, which was very uh
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you know obvious. You know, maybe she'll sing harmony here
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and there. This is what I'm thinking, this is why
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I make a record. But no, She goes in and
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: lays her voice or stacks her vocals about twelve times,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and she captures the wind that the Holy Spirit on
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the on the on the record, you know. And then
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Bruce walks and he says, what are you doing? And
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: she says, I'm doing a record with Dihon. He says,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I love this song. He says, ask him if I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: could play a solo. She she she calls me. She says,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Bruce wants to play a solo, And I said, do
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I have to pay him? So so I said, okay,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: could you know so she uh, so he played a
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: solo on it. So I got, you know, this this
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: is the fun I was. And then I I thought,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: well me, and I asked, you know, I have Bruce
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and Petty. Let me call Stephen van Zan. He's he's
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a friend. We go way back, used to we we
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: played together in the seventies, you know, and we've been
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: friends all these years. So you know, he jumped on
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a song called way Down. So that's how it started,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you know. And I just and and Bob, I kid
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: you not. I just didn't send the songs out from
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: here on in like to just two people because of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: who they were or you know. Uh, I was listening
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to stuff and I'm a big fan of like Sonny
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Landreth's guitar slide guitar playing. I knew the song, I
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: got the queue and needed a slide guitar player that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I knew and and I thought, this guy, this guy
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: is the best. So and Sonny was just thrilled to
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: do it. Some anti fish. You know, I know she's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: from New Orleans. I mean, I mean she lives that
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: nobody in New Orleans place bad nobody. So I I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: you know, she jumped on it. So it was just fun.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Every time, either I was in the studio with people
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: like Little Stephen and John Hammond, or I had to
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: send it to send them the recording, like uh, you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: like Brian sets up he was in the Midwest somewhere
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I had I I sent them Uptown number seven. But
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I heard him on it. It was like a rockabilly thing,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you know, so um you know, it just it went
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: from there and it was exciting. Man, it was like fun.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: It was just it was like every time uh, I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: got someone to contribute their vision and what they were
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: hearing onto the track I did. It was so exciting
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: for me because it was like a gift. It was
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: almost like unwrapping a present or something, you know. And
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I found out something about myself at this age, all
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the years that I've been around, man, I hate to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: ask anybody for anything. You know. I was brought up,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: you know, you do it yourself, you know, like a
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: pride thing. You know. I don't know what it was.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I just never said, hey, I could use your help.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Never that would have been like, I don't know weakness,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know the neighborhood, I was in this macho
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Italian crap. You know, I don't know what it was,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: but I'm telling you did I appreciate people these acts
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of service or the or the the giving or the
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: time they put into uh my thing. It was like
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it was like truly a blessing. Okay, how did you
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: get Van Morrison and Jeff back on the record. Well,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I'll go with from Marrison first. Van Morrison is my
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: wife's favorite singer and I know him. We go out
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: for dinner. Every time he comes close to my house.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: He gives me a call. Let's let's go back. How
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: do you know Vann Morrison? I met Van Morrison back
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: at the Spectrum in Philadelphia with the Moody Blues, back
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: when he had uh, you know, moon dance out and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: we became friends. I'm just a little more interested. So
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you were out the Spectrum, we were on the show together. Oh,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you were on the show together. Okay, we were backstage
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: and uh, I just we started talking and we both
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: uh we hit it up because we we both had
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: something in common with Bert Burns. Uh with an Then
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: again you start you start like bonding on on people,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, with John Lee Hooker and and
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: jazz and the horn players at the Apollo. You know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I was telling him one time, I said, I said Van,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I said, you know, I said, the when I put
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: these guys together and I recruited what became Dion and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the Belmonts. I said, uh, the way I used to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: do the arrangements for the wander or Runaround Sue or
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Ruby Baby. I said, when I heard the the the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: horn section at the Apollo, I would just try to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: imitate the horn section. So I give these guys parts,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you know, like Ruby Baby. It's like Rue Man, it's
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: like a horn section. Madd Ant and dad at and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Dad or the Wanderer. We were we're going like that
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: lola la la la up. But it's like uh bot
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: blood do and do it out out and do that ut.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Now you know it's it's like horns. So when I
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: when I was explaining that stuff to him and he said, man,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I want to sing like a horn, I said me too.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm a rhythm singer. I don't hold notes.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I like to but that. But let her doesn't do
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that and do that. But do you know, so, I said,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a rhythm singer. You give me a beat and
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: we just bonded on that stuff, you know, and so
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: we've been fresh. So I always told my wife, I said, listen,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Van Morrison and I are soul brothers. Man. She said, no,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: he's bad, you know, She's give me all this stuff,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: but she loves Van Morrison. She's like you get in
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: her car. She has twelfth Van Marrison c ds, so
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: still has a CD playing right of couse. So anyway,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I I I asked Van. I thought, you know, let
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: me ask him, and I wanted him to play Actually
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I wanted him to play horn, and he said no,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I'd rather sing with you. So I wrote this song.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I had this song called I Got Nothing. So I said, man,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: when you got Van Mark, I told Susan. I said, man,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: when you sing it with Van Morrison, nothing is good
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: enough is more than enough, you know. I said that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: it was so much fun doing this record with him,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: because you know, he's he's just so free a band
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and he yells, he's just so not he's so honest,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: so natural, you know, And you know I'm like that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: when I'm inside a song, I just like expressing it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I don't produce anything, you know, I express it. I
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: never sing a song the same twice, you know. So,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: so I I enjoyed that and it came out good,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: came out good. Then well, I had this beautiful ballad Bob.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: It's called I Can't Get Started Again. I Can't Get
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Started Again. I'm i'm, I'm listening to it. I'm thinking.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: You know, Jeff Beck is the only guitar player that
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: can make me cry. I mean, I've I've heard him
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: do Ori ears that from La Traviato. You know, I
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: don't know he he can make me cry? So I
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you know, Susan says, I don't know Jeff Beck. You
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: know he's he's pretty much, you know, isolated out. You know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if he's gonna respond. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: asked him. I I wrote him an email. He said,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I'd love to do it. He said, in fact, I'd
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: love to put the song on my new album. I said,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you got it, so he It was that simple. He
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: was very easy to work with. He was so generous
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: with me. It was it was incredible. So, okay, how
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: do you know Jeff Beck? Well? I met Jeff Beck
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He he
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: played a song he did uh uh. People get ready,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you know, and he just amazed me. You know he uh,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I know him from his you know, early recordings,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: whether with you know Male or the you know people
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: he was with early on and you know followed him,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, he's just he's just a gold standard
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: bearer because when people are in the room with Jeff Beck,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: they like at attention. You know, he's just something he
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: he and he does it just with his hands. I know,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: no pick, It's amazing. He's got gold in his hands.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: He's like, uh, he's got a touch that I don't know.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: He doesn't use, he doesn't use effects, he doesn't use
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of crazy sting. He just plays with
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: his hands and he gets the sound. It's just I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's incredible. It's it's just it's amazing what
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: he does. I was just grateful to get him on
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the song. I'm so grateful that he said yes, Okay.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: A couple of things you are literally alleged. Do you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: find when you're in these situations like the Rock and
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame, people just are drawn to you.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: They want to meet you. I don't know, I don't
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I really don't know. But about that maybe some of
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: those guys voted for me. I really don't know. But uh,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: but you know when I called Jeff Beck and started
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: talking to him, you know, he he did an album
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: called Crazy Legs, and uh, you know he uh, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Geen Vincent had had a guitar player that uh uh
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: never left Virginia, you know, but uh, Jeff Beck honored
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: him by uh Cliff Gallup. He he honored him by
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: doing this whole album around Cliff Gallup because the guy
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: was just a great player, you know. And uh I
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: was talking to Jeff about that. I said, man, when
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you made that album, Gene Vincent must have been smiling
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: down on you, you know, because uh, this guy is
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: just so I don't know, he's the best. You know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: people don't real They talk about Clapton, they talk about Hendricks.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I don't care. Jimmy Page. Beck is the best. I agree,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I agree, and I love Joe Bonamas. I think he's
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: lots a whole new generation he's got. Yeah, well you
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: know it comes down from you got Muddy Waters, Howling
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Wolf and all all those guys, you know, skip James
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Robert Johnson. Then you get that next generation with Jeff
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Beck and Claude Then and Jimmy Page and Joe Bonamas
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is the nu kid on the block. Okay, you talk
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: about all these people are literally high profile legends themselves.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: You say you don't like to ask for favors, but
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: are you someone to use the old term, who has
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a pretty big rolodex and stays in touch with these
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: people or this just because you're making the album it
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: came together? Yeah, a little of both, you know, a
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: little of both. I like Jon Hammond, Rory Blocks. You know,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: most most of the people on here on the album.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: You know, I I see periodically and have dinner with
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: him and UH know them. But some of the people
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I just know and you know, I don't go out
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: with them, but you know, I don't see them like
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: daily or you know, frequently. But you know how it
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: is when you have a friend, it's like you don't
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: see him for five years and you pick up it's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: like right there, It's like absolutely, you didn't move an inch,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you know, It's like you just continue. So um, you know,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: it was a little of both, you know. Okay. Um, Now,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the music business has certainly changed since you started. When
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: it was a lot of independence and it was all
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: about the hits. Today, even a Gigiana kid is nowhere
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: close to what it was in the sixties. People have
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: no idea these songs would play, everybody would know them.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So when you make music today and it's harder to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: get the message out and you know inherently for everybody,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the impact is lower, is it hard to keep your motivation? Well,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I've I did more
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: in this in this last year, and then I didn't
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the last twenty years for some reason. But so I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I'm motivated just because I was, uh like, I love
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: talking about this album because it's I don't feel like
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about me so much. It's just that I've
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: been surrounded by these incredible artists, so I got got
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: into their lives a little and just to appreciate what
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: they do and being connected with them and and them
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: doing me such a giving me such a gift. You know,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: it's it was a it was just a nice time
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: of life for me. You know, it was uh just enjoyable.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, the to enjoy relationships like that, Uh,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the the impact, I know what you I know what
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. You know, there was a time when
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you come out with an album and it sold six million.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: None none of mine. But you know what I'm saying, uh,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't really like. There's a kid across the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: street from me. I've known known him since he was born.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: His name is Zach Cone. He has a he has
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a group called Red Drum Society. But this kid used
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to come in my house, I would say. He would
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: ask me how to play guitar, and I taught him
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: how to play guitar. And then a couple of years
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: ago he said I can't sing. I said, yeah, you
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: could sing, Zach. I took him out on the street
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and we started yelling. And now he's singing. And now
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: he has a number one EP on the blues charts,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Red Drum Society. And and I go to him and say, Zack,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: what kind of business am I in? Because I don't
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: now he's teaching me about them. I taught him about
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the art, he's teaching me about the business. He's teaching
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: me about the meta tags and the and the UH,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the analytics and the and the UH on the back
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: end the Facebook and in the back end of Instagram
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and all you know who. I didn't know what what
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: he was talking about you know, but uh, you learned
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: about it about these uh you know, uh the marketing
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: part of it because he's doing it alone, and uh
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: he knows the inner workings of it, you know, so
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: we're helping each other. It's crazy, but it's a great business.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It absolutely is. Let's talk about the blues. Certainly all
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of the uh British guitarists were influenced by the Delta
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Blues people who were tend to be ignored in America
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: until college kids picked him up in the sixties and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: they started to book him. Were you always a fan
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of the blues and these blues musicians? No, I grew up.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I grew up. Well, I did hear John Lee Hooker.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I did hear Jimmy Reid. Jimmy Reid's part of my
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: d n A. Uh, that's why I got into this business, Bob. Like,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I heard a song by Hank Williams on my radio
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: when I was like ten years old, and it just
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that was it? What song was it? It was called
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: honky Tonk Blues. It threw me right on the road.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: There was a little radio station that came out of Newark,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: New Jersey, the the Don Larkins show. He was an
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: army guy and he got into country music. He started
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: he was a DJ. I used to run home from
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: from junior High school just to get the last twenty
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: minutes of it because it was like from three to four.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So uh, and I and I, you know, this is
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: after I heard Hank Williams. I tracked it down who
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: was playing it, and you know, stuff like that, and
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and then I went. I went up to Fordham Road.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: There was a in the bronx Um. There was a
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: little record shop called Cousins Record Shop. Luke cha Ketty
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: owned it, and I asked Lou I said, I heard
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: a song by Hank Williams, um honky tonk blues. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: he pulled the record out and I I went upstairs
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and put it on the turntable with the needle and listen.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I said, that's I want this. And I heard the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: back side of it, and I learned my uncle got
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: me a guitar, and I start. I just was mesmerized
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: by this stuff. You know, it's hard to explain what
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: what that does to you when you hear it, you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: like because it threw me on the road, you know it. Uh,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: it was so engaging, so Uh, Luca Ketty said, I'll
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: just give me a number. I'll call you when every
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: every new Hank Williams song comes out, I said, please.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I fell in love with this guy. Then I heard
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Reid, and then I was a weird kid man
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: because in my neighborhood people was they were listening to
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Riselli and Jerry Vale, and uh, you know, here
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I am listening to Jimmy Reid and Hank Williams, you know,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: and you know when you hear something like, uh, you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Reid, I want I wanted to I wanted to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: communicate like Hank Williams, and I wanted to groove like
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Reid. So uh, that's how I got into that.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And what was the question? No, I forgot. You know,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: it's your affection for the blues, the generation of that,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and when it happened. Yeah, well, well I I started.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I I kind of digested that music and and started
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to make my own records. And when I got to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: run around Sue, which is probably a a cleverly disguised
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: blue song, and the and the Wander is a blue song,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and Ruby Baby is a blue song. And Drip Drop
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is a blue song. And I was up at Columbia
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and right across the hallway, which was only about three
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: ft four ft they had hallways, and John Hammond Sr.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: His office was right across the hallway from Tom Wilson,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: who was producing me. He produced Dylan too. I was
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the first rock and roll assigned to Columbia Records, you know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: before it became Sony Records then. Uh. John Hammond asked
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: me one day, I was I was sitting on on
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the pianos bench with Aretha Franklin and we was we
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: were doing got to tell this story. How are you
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: sitting on the bench with the Wreatha Franklin who was
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: signed to Columbia before she goes to Atlantic and has
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: her big hits, right, And they didn't know what to
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: do with both of us. They were giving us Al
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Jolson songs. They gave Aretha, I don't know, you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: some kind of rock, a Bye My Baby, but a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Dixie mellow, you know. And they gave me a couple
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of Al Jolson songs. I liked al Jolson. My father
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: used to listen to him and him I liked he
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: was you know, he just had some swagger back then.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: You know. Now it's a little corny body, you know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: but he was great. So yeah, but tell me the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: story of meeting in Wreatha Franklin and sitting on the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: piano bench. We both were a recording uh, and Bob
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Mercy was uh producing her Al Jolson songs and producing
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: my Al Jolson songs. So it's it. And I'm sitting
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: in his office was and the pianos right near the doorway,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: and we're doing drip drop, you know, the roof League
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and in the rain falling, No my head, drip drop,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I said, the roof fifth League and in the rainfall
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: and no my head hand I need him mop I
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: crossed so hot, tear all and down in my bed
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: head drip ity drop and uh, you know Hammond John
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Hammond walks, He says, hey, uh, he says, come in
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: my office when you're finished. So I walk in there
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and he says, Dean, you know you got a flare
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: for the blues. You know. He says, uh, I gotta
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: play it. He says, my son is getting into the blues.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: He said, uh. So he plays me something of his size. Man,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. He takes out the Robert Johnson album
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: this is one, Bob. This is before Clapton probably heard
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Crossroads and John Hammond plays me preaching blues and Crossroads,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and I was mesmerized. I said, I need one of you.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Gotta get get me one of those albums. And I
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: brought it home and nobody when I played it, nobody
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: would there was going, what the hell are you listening to?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: They thought it was like Chinese music. They didn't know
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: what the hell. I thought, you don't hear what he's doing.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was unbelievable. I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: got crazy and I started really getting into the You know,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I did all kinds of blues songs in the early
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: sixties up at Columbia with the the Apollo Theater guys.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I did Spoonful by Howling Wolf early in the sixties,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: way before Cream or any any of those guys have
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: a touched now. I was up at Serious Radio and
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and Peter Townsend and uh Roger walked in. They because
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: they heard I was doing an interview, and they said, Dian,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: we love that song Spoonful. How the hell did you
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: record that song? We want to know. I said, I
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: was listening to Howland Wolf. I loved the song. One
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: of my favorite Holland Wolf's songs. I said, I had
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this Birdland Gibson guitar, and I got into tremlow because
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Abou Diddley and I went up to Colombia and I
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: had all the guys from the Apollo Theater band there,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Buddy Lucas and Stick Sevens on drums, and Panama Francis
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and percussion, all these Mickey guitar, Baker and or Concurs,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: all these guys and and they would encourage me, and
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I said, I just said follow me, and I sang it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I said, that's the record. So they said, that's one
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: of our favorite records. Who you know who? Who knows?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You know? If to all these years, somebody tells me
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: that it's crazy because you never know who you're reaching
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: or who's listening. Well, you're at the I of the hurricane.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: That's why I say, if I write something, I don't
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: know what people are talking about. People the same type
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of thing. These records have a long life. Let's go
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: back to you growing up though. You go to school,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: good student, bad student, popular kid, unpopular kid. I wasn't unpopular, No,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I was pretty uh in the mix, you know, Uh?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't the greatest student. I was really good with math.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: I was a good I was good with math, but
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I had problem hims. I had like these, I'd get
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: in fights and I don't know I had these. You know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's you know, my father never had a
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: real job, so when my uncle's and everybody got together,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you know that they would put him down at the
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: dinner table. They'd be like laughing at him. And at
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: seven years old, I must have said to myself, nobody's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: ever gonna treat me like that. I'll break their freaking face.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I got this attitude. So I was like
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: like this angry, like, don't ever, I don't ever. Yeah,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I'm nobody's joke, you know. I'm like, you know, I
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be treated. I must have sworn out
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: to heaven or you know, vowed an oath that no one.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I got this attitude, you know, So that's what I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I was like a good kid. I wanted
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: to be a good kid. I was a weird kid
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: because I'm into Hank Williams, I'm into Jimmy Reid, and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I'm reading St. Thomas a coinas I'm like interested in
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: blues and God. I wanted to know who God was,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: where he was. You know, I just that's that was
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: my deal. Okay. But I was a good I was
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: good with sports. You know. I had a good eye,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: hand coordination, you know, whatever sport was around. But you know,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: one day I challenged this guy up at Mount St.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Michael on track on the track because I thought I
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: was fast. We got on the track. I want to
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: tell you something I forgot about track. After I raised
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: this guy. I forgot. I said, that's not that's not it.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not going there because I couldn't be best at it.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: So I picked up the guitar and I started, you know,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: writing or trying to do something there. Okay, tell me
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: more about your father. He didn't have a job. Where
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: did the money come from? Your mother worked too? Yeah?
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: My mother worked. She was a work She died a
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: hundred and four. She worked. She worked down in the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: in the Millinary district in Manhattan. She took two three
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: busses and come back and cooked dinner with a coat on.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: She you know, she she was the hub of the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: of the family, you know. But but they argued all
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the time because my father was like an emotional thirteen
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: year old. You know, he I don't know. Maybe he
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: was on the grid somewhere, you know, I don't I
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: don't know where he was at. But but I gotta
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: tell you my father had great qualities. The guy was
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: an unbelievable athlete. He could swim and we would go
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: to Orchard Beach. He'd swim out to an island. He'd
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: dive off the city island bridge, and then he would sculpt.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: He would go in the cellar and sculpt something or
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: lift weight. But he didn't like to work. How many
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: kids in the family, Uh three? I was the oldest.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I had two two sisters. Well, use are the oldest.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: All the hopes and dreams were in the oldest kid,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: and the oldest kid gets pushed. Was that your experience? Well,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't need to get pushed. I was pushing myself.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, Uh, I was just on a mission.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: The drive was on, and then uh was there music
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: in the house. My father listened to Al Jolson. He
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: listened to Louis Prima. I always say Louis Prima would
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame if
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: he didn't sing Italian song. Because Sam but Tera was
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: one of the best sex sax players I've I've ever
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: heard you know that guy he was. He was just great. Okay,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I'm a little younger than you, but I certainly were.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And one of the big things they always said was
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: street corner sea What was really going on there? Were
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: you really seeing it on the street corners? Absolutely? Where else?
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Are hallways? When we found out the hallways had a
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: better sound, we got into the hallways or the or
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the subway stations. But but we were saying anywhere, you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: on the stoops mostly you know, yeah, absolutely it was
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: street music. Uh you know, we weren't on stage. We
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: we didn't have a studio. It was like, uh, it
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: was street music. We we get together and make up sounds,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, dead lead lead lead let yeah,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: dead little lead lead let yeah. You know down dome, dome, dome,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: dom dom and just jump on it with some harmony
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and it it was an art form, you know. And
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: at what point do you say, hmm, I can make
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: this a career, I can earn a living at this Well,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I went down to a little company. Uh. There was
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: a black guy in my neighborhood. His name was Willie Green.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: He was the Uh, the janitor of one of the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: apartment buildings. I couldn't wait to get with him after
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: school because he played guitar and he listened to John
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Lee Hook. I loved this guy man, you know, I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: just couldn't wait to get with him. You know, it
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: was the real deal for me. It was it was
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: stuff that made me feel alive, you know. So I
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: uh and he you know, then I found out that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: there was this company and they wanted me to audition.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: There was a songwriter in the neighborhood, not a very
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: good one, but he knew this company and he he said,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you should go down here in the audition. He got
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: me an audition, and I was I was kind of
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: frightened about it. And I told Willie Willie Green, this janitor,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: he said, just be yourself, he said, he said, sing
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: that called Perkins song sang for me. You know. So
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I went down there and I did that, and I
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: got a record deal. And uh, I didn't know what
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I was doing. I just you know, saying they they
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: signed me right away. So uh, then they wanted they
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: put me with this group from Oklahoma called the timber Lanes.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: You know, like to tote, you know, like you know,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: like uh, I said, I can't sing with these guys.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So that was how I recruited all the best uh
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you know street doo wop singer is from the streets,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: you know that used to hang out in different neighborhoods
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: listening to different jukeboxes. And uh, I got the best,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you know, the best of the best and put them together.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And it came out with my house one day and
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: we put I wonder why together, Bob, you should have
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: been there. I'm telling you, it was like a dream.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I'm true. I don't know, you know, I wasn't in
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to do up that. I mean, I never sang with
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: three other guys in the room. I had had a
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: guitar and I would do Hank Williams songs or something.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: But being this company wanted to, you know, put me
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: with this group, the Templings, and they did. I recorded
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: uh something and I just didn't like it. I said,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: you know, let me try it. Being you want this,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I'll get some guys. I'll do anything, you know, because
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I would do anything to make a record or you know,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: being an artist or so I got these guys and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: we put this song together and the first day we
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: sang that song in my parents apartment, in my bedroom.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Those three guys, it was it was like I was
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: on a carousel in heaven. One guy was singing then
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and and that and and that and let edit and
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: that and done, done that. The other guys on whoo
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: and the other guy when when you know, and I'm
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: singing lead. We were doing four different things. It was
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: like dixie Land, but it was our own thing. Uh.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: But it was amazing. It was like a golden It
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: was a golden moment, a real defining moment in my life. Okay,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you have success. What would you consider to be your
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: first big hit record? I think that I wonder why? Okay,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: so if we go, wonder why you cut it in
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the studio and they used to cut really fast. Did
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: you know it was gonna be as big as it
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: ended up being. No, But I knew we had something special.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I liked it. I thought it was I thought it
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: was pretty cool. It was different, you know. Uh, the
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: intro to it is is as distinctive as for doop
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: as Chuck Berry's in True and Row to Johnny be
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Good on guitar. Okay, but you're a young guy, you're
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: living in the Bronx. Everybody's listening to the radio. What
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: to like? What your song comes over the radio? What
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: are the kids of the neighborhood saying? What do you think, Bob?
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: It was It was crazy because, uh, you know, we
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: didn't have air conditioners, so everybody had their there windows
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: open in the summer right there, just you know, in
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the radios around and and they know that Dion and
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: a Bellmans. They know I'm Francis as kid patent Francis
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Kin and I got a record out, so everybody's listening
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: to the countdown. Everybody listened to the same music. Back then,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: we didn't have all these stations. Now you look, they
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: have like fifty genres. Know, everybody listens to the same stuff,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: so I wonder why it comes on. It was. It
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: was like it was surround sound coming out of everybody's window,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: so you know, and out of the convertibles in the street.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: So it was amazing. We uh, we bought jackets and
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: we painted Dion and the Belmont's on the back. You know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: we were like we were crazy. So it was a
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: lot of fun, okay, but then you go on an
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: incredible run both with him without the Belmont and you're
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: a young guy. How do you handle that emotionally? You know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I'm bob. I I couldn't handle my emotions for I
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: didn't even know what they were, where they came from. So,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, I started, you know, like a lot of people,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I started with the drinking and the drugging, and uh,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: I started pretty young. Actually I started before I was recording.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I started, uh fooling with with drugs when I was fourteen,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so I uh, you know, I
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: wanted a umplished something with the singing and the contract
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: and the records, but really I my feet were firmly
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: planted on the in the air. You know, I had
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: no I had no foundation at all. So it's crazy. Uh,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: and I you know, I got it, you know with
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: that stuff, it's progressive and you get hooked. And the
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: mid sixties were you know, I always say this, this
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: three stages to drug addiction or alcoholism and all that
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. The first stage goes up, it's a
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: lot of fun, you think you found heaven. The second
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: stage is it flattens out. It's like fun and some problems.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: And then the third stage is nothing but problems. So
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: that's how it went for me, uh the mid you know,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: when I was at Colombia, I was it was fun
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and then it got fun and some problems and uh
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: you know like that. Okay, so you go on the road,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you're a young success, do you partake of all of
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the goodies on the road, not only the drugs but
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: the sex, etcetera. And I I I was a shy kid. Man.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I was shy, so I I wasn't uh you know,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: it just wasn't part of my nature too. Uh just
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, I wanted to, you know, and I did,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't say it was like overboard. I was
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: like I meet somebody. You know, if it happened, it happened.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: But you know, uh, I mean, yeah, you know, it's funny.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I go back to the St. Thome as A Quintas
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: that I was reading. It's funny how things are backed
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you when you're older and you're and you're having problems
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: emotionally and you're you're taking drugs because uh uh. I
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: started thinking about St. Thomas Aquinas and I started thinking
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: about some of the things I I learned, and I
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it's Acquaintas would say, if you don't have
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: God in your life. You have to fill up on something,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and it's usually the four substitutes, the the typical temptations
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: or addictions. Its wealth, pleasure, power, and honor. And you
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: want you got to get the money, the pleasure, sex, drugs,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: rock and roll, you gotta get you know. You you
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: could see the politicians with the power, and people got power.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: That's that's a big addiction. And and honor. You gotta
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: be right, you gotta win, you gotta be better. You
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: got back all this stuff. So you try to fill
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: yourself up with that stuff and it doesn't really work
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: because it's outside yourself. You know, you're really not finding
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: uh you, It'll never satisfy that deep longing of of
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the of your heart and spirit, you know. So I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: started to think about these things when I started getting addicted,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and I was when I was miserable, you know,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: coming into nineteen. I started thinking about the Mon Senior
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: who stopped me on the street one day and he said, yo, Dion,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: come over here. What makes a man happy? And I said, Mon,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: seeing you, if I could get a thunderbird, if I
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: could get a Gibson J two hundred guitar, I could
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: get a hit record, I'm talking about when I was
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: fifteen years old. I said, if I could get a
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: date with that girl, Susan who moved down from Ver month,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I'd be a happy guy. He said, no, Dion, the
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: virtuous man is a happy man. I said, what the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: hell is virtue? I had no idea what it was
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: because I was up to no good. And he said,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: it's a habitual and firm disposition to do the good.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I remembered it because we sat there for
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes and he drilled it into my head and
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I was up to no good. So but later on,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: when I'm hooked and baffled and wondering about he started
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: thinking about these things. Gee. Maybe what he said was
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I wonder how you get there? You know? And then
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I met a guy I was like, I was, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I had twelve gold records on the wall, and I
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: had a you know, I I had success run around
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Sue and the Wanderer and route. I had some big
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: records with teenager in love as a kid. And then
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: it rolls around nineteen six and February of nineteen sixty eight,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Frankie Lyman dies of an overdose and I used to
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I ran the streets with Frankie Lyman. We used to
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: we used to like take drugs together and stuff, and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it just scared me. I thought, you know this is
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: this is not gonna end up well. So I got
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: on my knees one night and like that's why I said.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: It was like December fourteenth, there was I got on
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: my knees and I asked God for help. I said, God,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're real, I don't know what's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: going but you I need help. I'm telling you I
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: haven't had a drug or a drink in fifty two years.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: So that was my Then I meet this guy and
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I'm having coffee with him. I don't know if you
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: want to hear this, but keep going, keep going. But
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: this is crazy, you know, because I'm from the streets, man,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I'm from Crotona Avenue in the Bronx. We don't talk
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: about this stuff. Nobody says, are you serene? Or how
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: do you find peace of mind? You know who the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: hell cares? You know, nobody's thinking like that. But this
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: guy says to me, do you know where feelings come from?
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: I said no. He said, they come from your thinking.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Your thought, you will feel what you're thinking, now, who
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the hell of a knew that? I didn't know that.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: So now if if you know, if I get off
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: someday like a little which I don't, you know, I'm
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I'm a funny guy. Because if you would open up
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: my brain, if you would open up saw my head
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: in half and look inside my brain, you'd see a
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: very peaceful, orderly place. So and that's because of this
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: guy who told me that. Because so you know, he
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: was like into pursuing wisdom, you know, cultivating the life
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: of the mind. He used to say, this is where
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you live in your mind. You live here. You know,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: it's got you gotta be right because I was a mess.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I was a mess, bob, you know. But thank god,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I I think from that point on, well, I've always
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: had this. I've always had this. I gotta say, I've
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: always had this wonderful gift to surround myself with great
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: people that knew more than I did, much more than
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I did. I don't know what that and and I'm
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: not saying all the time I was around, you know,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: there were people coming out of my life that weren't
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: like that. But the people that I really appreciated, I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I I had this ability to notice that I wanted
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: to be this guy's friend. You know, he he could
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: take me to higher ground. Okay, man, let's say look,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: let's say hypothetically tomorrow you went to the doctor and
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: he said you have a year to live tragically, but
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it doesn't not really happening. Would you partake of drugs
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: and alcohol or would you stay off? Oh? Absolutely not,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: absolutely stay clean. Now I'm I'm high. I'm like, Uh,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a very grateful guy. I wouldn't want to be
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: any other place than in the presence of beauty and
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: ore and wonder and life and I and my friends. No, okay,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: you become sober and sixty eight, that's very early, you know.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: So being sober today is a big thing. But certainly
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it's something like me who gave up alcohol in for years.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: People are cajoling me, have a drink, have a drink.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Did you experience that? Yeah, But it's not something I
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: got rid of or something. It's it's just something that uh,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't want and I don't need to
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: go there, and I don't need to feel better than
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I feel. I really I like to feel what I'm feeling. Um,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I like to experience life in a very real way,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: on a higher reality. Um, it's just uh to me,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: it's the real deal. It's something uh and and drugs
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: are alcohol. They they I want to be fully alive,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: and that's not the way to go if you want
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: to I'm totally with you. There's no drug I've ever
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: taken that's as good as a natural Hye me sound
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: like a cliche, but I firmly believe that. No, I
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: uh And, Look, it's been fifty two years. I have
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: three daughters that loved me dearly. They walk in the house,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: they want to lean on my shoulder and hug me,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: and they don't feel judged. I don't judge them. I
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: enjoy them. I have. I have a wife, that girl Susan.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: I told you I met her when I was fourteen.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Still my wife been married fifty seven years. I'm like,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: if I had one year to live, I'd probably get
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: closer to my friends and uh and and closer to
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the people I love. But I wouldn't. You know, rugs
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and alcohol would take you further away from that, So
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't even think of that. Okay, So
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: when you started out the package tour was the big thing.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: What were those days? Like? Wow, I'll tell you something,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I learned a lot because you know, back in those days,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: well even today, the music brought the races together, brought
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: different cultures together. You know. I traveled with Bobby Blue Bland,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: I traveled with Sam Cook. I'll tell you a story
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I put in. Uh. There's a song actually Songwriters of
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: America UH picked it as the best song of Uh.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: It's called song for Sam Cook here in America. And
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: what the song comes out of is um uh and
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: and and Paul Simon helped uh is on it. He
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: uh he sang some harmony with me, who made it
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: just really something special. But when I met Sam Cook,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: I traveled with Sam Cook um for about form for
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: for a month on a big show called show of
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Shows show. Uh, I forget something like that. I forget
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the name of the tour. But we we traveled all
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: over the country and then we went on another tour
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: and uh we were down in uh Memphis, and he
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: was a very refined guy, Sam Cook, very intelligent. Uh.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I was rough, I was rough around the edges.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I was kid from the Bronx. You know. He was
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: a preacher's kid. And uh, I saw him in a
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: lot of different situations in Memphis and people were you know,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: there was racism in New York, but it wasn't the
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: same because I was, like I told you, I was
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: at Columbia Records with all the Apollo guys that you know,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and I was friends. I I became friends with Buddy
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Lucas for all his life, you know. And Sam Uh.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: You know, they had the Jim Crow laws down here.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: I who knew anything about that? You know, that was
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: a whole different thing from me. So when when I
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: saw people treating him the way they treated him, he
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: was a very beautiful guy Statue West. He was tall,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: he was stood straight, he was bright. He he wanted
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: to be around them because you know, like I said,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: you could learn from guys like this, so I would,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: you know, he he taught me basically that racism was,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a peculiar way to become a man. And uh,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: and if race matted to you, basically I learned it
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: from him. If if race matters to you, if it's
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: significant to you, you're a racist. It didn't matter to us.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter to you and me. It's like I
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: color a shoe color, you know. So I would watch
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: this guy and I'd say, Sam, an youa punch that
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: guy in his face, you know, And he'd say, Dan,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: you know, why what? Why should I get down on
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that level? You know? You know. So I got to
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: observe him in a lot of different situations and the
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: way he responded, and I never seen him get ruffled.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I've never seen him get angry. I've seen him say
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: things that were like incredible to just just deflective stuff
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: that would like putting somebody's face, like put up a
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: mirror in somebody's face to show them where they were
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: really at. And I would think, what the hell that,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: you know, And then it dawned on me after about
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: three weeks that he was the smartest guy in the room.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: But he never lets you know it. He just he
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: was that smart. He didn't even have to go there.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: These people were idiots, you know. So he wanted to
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and he would talk about God and he would talk
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: about brotherhood and friendship and understanding. He was he was
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: like living out the Gospel. He would understand me. He
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: he stood up for me. He he Sam Cook took
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: me to a club in Memphis to to to see
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: James Brown and the Flames, and people were getting on
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: my case and he sayd hey, he's the kids with me.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: That's Dion, you know, we're doing shows things. But he
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: was He was a good guy. So I wrote this
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: song years ago and I never recorded it. It's called
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: song for Sam Cook. And uh, last year when I
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: when I saw a Green Book, I said to my wife, Wow,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: they wrote a song. They wrote they put a movie together.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Reminds me of my song. You know, it's it's like backwards,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: but it it reminds me of my song. So I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: took the song out and it ended up on Blues
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: with Friends. And when I get when I played it
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: for Paul Simon, you know, he mentioned racism. He said
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: a song and I said, it's not really. I said, yes,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: there's a racism component to it, but it's really about it.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: It's really a song about brotherly love and friendship and understanding.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: And uh he said, yeah, I get it. I get it.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: So we did it together. Okay, who turned you onto heroin?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: What were the circumstances there? Ah, one day, you know,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: the the idea of that. I was young and my
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: parents were always arguing, always, man just twenty four seven.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: My father never had a job, and they would, you know,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: just be at it all the time. So the first
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: time I snorted some of this stuff, I was like, whoa.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: I was on the street the next day looking for it.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: I want more of that. It made me feel good, period,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: and uh that's what happens, you know. Uh, I just
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: felt good. Okay, So tell us your version of splitting
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: up with the Belmont. My version is is the real reason.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: You know, we did the first album and I had
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: this love for Hank Williams and Jimmy Reid and these
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: three guys that I put together started wanting to do
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: they I don't know what they want, you know, because
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: people back then talked about legitimate music like I wonder
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: why wasn't legitimate? And they wanted to do stuff like
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: for four times ups I don't know, like the like
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: the uh the let him I forget. You know. It
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: was like these these groups that sang smooth harmonies. Uh,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: and and we did a whole album of the this
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: these songs that I guess from the Great American Songbook,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: you know, the Swinging on a Star and you know,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: in the Still of the Night, not the not the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: five sentence in the still of the night. But you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: know some of the like where when we had to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: hit record called where When because it was I did
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: it because of it was the record company president's favorite song.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: So I put a version of that together. Then they
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: wanted to sing everything like that. I said, I can't
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: do that. I just can't do that. I'll blow my
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: brains out. So we just split. And that's how I
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: got to make runaround Sue and the wander and everything.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: You know, because if I would have stayed with them,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: I would have been if I would have stayed with that,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: not not basically with them. I love the guys I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: was there were great talents, and the guys in the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Belmonts they were great, great singers. I loved them, you know,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: and it was humble to sing with them. But but
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: the music I wanted to do what I wanted to do.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: It was like, you know, it was driving me. Uh
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I had no choice. I really didn't have a choice.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Uh So, and I'm still doing it and I still
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: don't have a choice. And I, um, what was the
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: difference between being on LORI Records and an independent being
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: on Columbia? Uh? I gotta say there wasn't too much difference.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: They both were I tell you the way it was
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: back then. They both were with me, Okay, you want
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: to do that song, ruby baby, do this song. We'll
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: make you you do one song that you want to do.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Do one song that we want you to do. So
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: it was like one for you, one for me. Same
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: with Glory Records. That was it. So, you know, I
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know any better, you know. But when I got
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: a little older, when I got when I started getting
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: like I was about twenty three, I just I left
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Columbia and I left a lot of money on the table.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: I came home and I told my wife Susan, I said,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I I left. I can't they they're not going to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: release the Kicking Child album. They don't like and it's
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: a great album. They just released it recently and it's
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: a it was a great album. Did it all live
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: with with uh? I don't know, just life right in
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the studio four guys with Al Cooper on the on
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: the keep warts and Tom Wilson produced it. But I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: told Susan, I left Columbia. I left the money there,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: you know, And I had a I had a contract
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: and I had I had I was making a hundred
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year for five years. That was the contract,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I said, And I left within two years. I left
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars on the table. I said, keep it.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: That's how much the music meant to me. That's how much. Uh.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it. It was the only thing
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: I had in my that that that was my salvation.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Was this this gift you know, that was in me.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: So I just I never lost my artistic curiosity. And
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like the same as when I was a kid,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: you know. I like coming out on the stage with
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: a guitar and just rocking, you know, and just doing
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: a great song and taking and taking people on a trip.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: But it's gotta be. It's gotta be from the inside
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: of you. How are you gonna do it with somebody
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: else telling you that it just doesn't work? You know?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Do it with this song? Nah? I don't think so. Okay,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: What was your perspective when the Beatles arrived in the
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: whole British invasion? What do you think of that? Well?
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't, to be honest with you, The Beatles didn't
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: affect me one bit. I didn't even to me, I
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: don't even call it the British invasion. I call it
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: the uh, the British infusion, because I got into the
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Stones and you know, and some of the stuff they
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: were doing, like the animals, uh, you know with the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: House of the Rising Sun. The Beatles were like too cute,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I love you, Yeah, yeah, who who you know? I
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: was like nah later for that stuff. I it was
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: too many chords, too cute for me. I I didn't.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't get into it, but you know I got
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I came to appreciate them when they did rub a soul.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: They were were they were writing some great songs, you know,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: and then revolution you know. Uh. But it wasn't like
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: anything that threatened me. I wasn't even it didn't you
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: know why it didn't bother me because I mean it
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: didn't affect me because I was in my room when
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: I after I heard Jon Hammond, after he gave me
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: U an arm full of albums of Furry Lewis and uh,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Fred McDowell and Lightning Hopkins and and and and Robert Johnson,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I was in my room. I love Bob Dylan. Bob
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Dylan came to Columbia. I was at a lot of
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: the early sessions, just sitting there with John Hammond. But
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: I tell you I loved him. That was incredible. But
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: that's what I was into. I was into the blues,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: love Dylan. Um. You know, I got into a lot
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: of the people in the village that was that was
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: down are, like Tim Harden. Uh. I was watching the
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Loving Spoonful Creation, you know, Um, Richie Havens, John Hammond Jr.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Playing at the gas light, hanging out there, Paul Butterfield. Yeah.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: So so the Beatles and not to make it sound
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: try to like, you know, like I'm putting them, but
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for me. I was more. I was more
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: in the blues and the folk thing, you know, the okay,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: tell us tell us the story of Abraham Martin and John.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: You know. I was living in Miami. I had moved
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: there a geographical cure because I had been drinking and drugging.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: And I was, like I said, I ended up there.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Frankie Lyman died. I was in Uh. I was in Miami,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: and I I met a guy and UH introduced me
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: to a spiritual twelfth Step program and I got into
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: that and I man, I never looked back. I got
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: on my knees one night. I've never been the same.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I just I took to it like a I don't know,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: a duck to water, you know. I So I was,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: I was working on myself and uh, working on my
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: you know, putting things back together mentally for myself, because
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: I had taken drugs and was drinking for quite a while.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: That uh, this song, Uh it comes to me Abraham
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Martin and John Uh three months after I cleaned up,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: you know, after I stopped drinking and drugging, and uh,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Dick Holla walks in into my house, as you know,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: uh uh he wrote it. He wrote it kind of
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: like cutesy dude. You know. I remember, you know, as
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: I picked up my guitar, I had a gut string guitar,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: and I kind of arranged it, you know. I put
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: it together in a way that uh I thought it
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: would be interesting because I was listening to Tim Harden
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: back then Kenny Rankin, you know. Uh so I don't know,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: I thought, let me try it like this. I put
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the song together and I recorded it for Lorie Records.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: What when I started playing it, my wife said, Wow,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: that that's the gospel. She said that that sounds like
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: you could kill the dream of but you cannot kill
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: the dream. You know. It's people like us, we pick
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: up on it and carry it further. She said, So
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I'll keep you in my prayers. Do a good job
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: with it. I went up to New York, got in
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the studio with the studio was loaded with musicians like
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: uh and uh of the song with my gut string
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: guitar and who knew because that was you know, in
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: that era, that was Jimmy Hendricks, Cream, Eric Clapton, you know,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. I would never think it would even
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I just I just recorded it because it
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: was interesting. But I who would think it would become
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: like an anthem or you know, a song that would
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: you know, go to number one? Okay, you were one
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: of the first, if not the first mamestream rocker to
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: make Christian music. So he can he tell me about
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: that process and how you flipped back and forth from
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Christian to secondary music thereafter. Well, to me, you know,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: it's like to me that uh, I don't even know
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: if it makes sense, but uh, you know, if you
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: go in a record store, they'll have these different bens
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Christian music, folk music, blues, rock and roll, to me
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: when I pick up a guitar, it's Dion music. So
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to sing a gospel too, umm
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: it I you know, I got into gospel music. Uh.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: I was listening to some of the groups and Mighty
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: Clouds of Joy, and I heard something. I thought, this
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: is great and you know, and I thought, hey, I
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: don't mind being identified with Jesus because you know, here's
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: a man, god man who cared about the sick, the lonely,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: the broken, the disabled, you know, the poor. I said,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: I don't mind being identified with him. So you know,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: it never bought you know, I I thought that's an
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: uplifting thing for me and a good way to go.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: So I wrote a lot of gospel songs, a lot.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I think I made five albums. It was to me,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: it was very lifting. It was like, uh, you know,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: it just was. It had a lot to do with
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: just what was happening inside of me at the time. Okay, Now,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: when you started in the record business, royalties were low,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: they tended not to be paid, and a lot of
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: these hit records you didn't write. So how is the
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: money worked out over all these decades with me? Yeah?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm blessed. Man, I'm blessed. I I tell
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you a lot of guys don't end up in in
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: good shape. But uh, I don't know. I for me,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: uh I reeled in all the publishing that I wrote
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: about four hundred songs. So man, mailbox money is good
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: for me. I mean it keeps me buoyant, you know it.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: Uh I have no complaints. I uh i, I've never
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: been uh I never have to claim bankruptcy or you know,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I was always I don't know, I'm
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: a generous guy. But I always like I didn't need
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: to be fancy. I didn't need to have a car
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: every year or to live. I never had to show
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: anybody anything, you know. I never had to be extravagant.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Like I just wasn't that guy. So I just I
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: ate well. I lived well. I I don't feel like
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: I'm lacking anything. You know. My wife and I uh
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: uh I could help my kids, I could, I could
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: do a lot, you know. But I ended up in
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: a good place because of a great manager. Dick Fox
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: is man. He is a blessing. He was like mother
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Teresa to me. You know. He came into my life
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: and I had a good guy by my side and
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: who didn't rip me off for you know, because I
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: come from the era that you know, clever accounting, you're
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: always in the red. I never made any money on albums, never,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I never. But you still don't get any record royalties.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: But yes, through Sound Exchange, through ASCAP thank god that
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: uh uh publishing. You know. I talked to Lou Reed
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: long time ago. He said, publishing, that's your retirement plan there.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: So I my wife ran the publishing company for about
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: twenty five years. So, uh, to be honest with you,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I did well, I can do. What was it if you?
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten a royalty on a record from
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the label? Yeah, that's and that's that's another situation, you know.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what you get ripped off. You
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: get ripped off, absolutely ripped off. Okay, but I'll tell
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: you something, especially from you know, from that decade. You know.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Now it's a different story. I'm I'm like with much honest,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: more honest than up from people that show you everything.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: But uh, back in in that day, everybody got ripped off.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, Chuck, Barry bo you talked to all these guys.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Everybody got you know, I didn't get paid. But somewhere
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: along the line, the idea comes to you, let me
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: pull back from this. Like if I'm say, take Muddy
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Waters comes out of the fields, he's picking cotton, gets
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: his guitar, walks into his studio, you know, Chess records
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: and and say it doesn't get paid. Okay. If you
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: approach the guy like that and say, hey, listen, money,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: we are going to record you and we're gonna give
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: you an international career, the world is gonna know you,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: and you know you're gonna make money because you're gonna
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: be the man. You know. Uh, we're gonna give you
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: a career. We're gonna give you a sixty year career.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: What do you think of that? Who would who wouldn't,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: who wouldn't sign on? I'd say yeah. So somewhere along
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: the line you're pulled back and you look at this
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: and you go, well, yeah, I didn't get paid correctly
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: in it, But look at they took a shot with me.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: They gave me this and they were like that, and
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: you just I mean nothing. It's right, But you walk
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: away without a resentment and you don't have to ruin
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: your life thinking about people beating you and all that
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: stuff and blaming people. You know, you're just so you
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, You gotta pull back and look
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: at the whole picture. Okay. And how did you meet
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: hook up with Dick Fox? He was a fan as
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: a kid, and when I was in uh he showed
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: up when I was going through uh a difficult time,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: uh and he said, I'd I'd love to to manage you.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: This was like in the early nineties and I've been
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: with him ever since. He's made my life a living dream.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Dick Fox. Thank you God. I mean, you know,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: when you got a guy like that by your side,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: what it's just, it makes life. It just makes life wonderful. Okay. Now,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: you moved to Miami in sixty ye eight. What do
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: we know about Miami? Snowbirds went there, Jackie Gleason moved there,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: but maybe with criteria study. It was in the seventies
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Miami became hot, nothing like it is today. Were you
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: out of the loop? It was good for you for
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol? Was it good for you musically? Well?
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: I really was still connected to New York. Uh Uh.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: I moved down just to get away from drugs and alcohol.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: And I found that that I took myself with me.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: But as you'd have it. You know, I met a
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: guy and I got cleaning soba and cleaning soba ever
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: since April of nineteen, and uh, that's a big thing.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: It kept me healthy and vital and and uh significant,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: you know, like I like I made this latest album,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Blues with Friends. Do you think I'd go in and
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: make an album if I didn't feel uh, you know, significant,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: or I had something to say? What what would be
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: the reason to do it? I don't have a reason,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: you know. So I feel very uh alive and well
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: and like, uh, actually I have more to say now
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: than I did when I was nineteen. I made some
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: great records then. But I just you should hear the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: new thing I'm doing. I'm doing. I just went in
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: and cutting. I'm cutting a new album. I must be
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: under the spout where the glory comes out, because man,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: these songs have been getting downloaded in my head. So
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: I'm excited about this new thing I'm doing. You know,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: it's just fun. I love, you know, Bob, I've always
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: loved creating something like it wasn't there and all of
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: a sudden it's there. The sound these songs they take
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: people on a trip. I've always loved that more than
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: going on the road and singing and you know, and
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: doing that deal. I love. I love singing the people.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: It's just wonderful see the faces. And like I said,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: I've never changed. I love taking people on a trip.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: But let me tell you, man, I love creating. I
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: love the idea of creating more than anything. It's just
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: that turns me on, that that that floats my boat.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm still passionate. Okay, Uh, You've had ups
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: and downs. You talk about alcohol, moving to Miami. Do
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: you ever contemplate giving up, giving up, retiring and doing
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: something else? Uh? Hey, I don't know. You know, I'll
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: be honest with you. I love talking to men about recovery.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, that'll always be a part of my life
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: because someone was there for me and uh showed me
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: where the key was to open up the cell that
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: I was in of of self bondage, you know. And
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: so I just love talking to men because when I
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: see the lights come on, they come alive and they
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: get free, a freedom of excellence, a genuine freedom, not
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: not false. I and their families come together and their
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: kids and that turns me on. So I so I
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: would never retire from that, and I would never retire.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think I could ever retire from making music
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: some some way, you know. And uh so those two things. Uh,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Like you know, Bob, I found out a long time ago,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: there's a big difference between success and fulfillment. And uh,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: you know, they're not the same. They're they're different. And
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: you know, and you know, you could just read the headline,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: you could just read the tabloids and see people that
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: are successful, a lot of them are not very happy.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: So uh but I'm a grateful guy because I you know,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: I found peace and and brotherhood with a lot of
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: friends and community and love around me. So I'm I'm
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: good to go. Okay, But before you go on every level.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Your mother lived a hundred and four, let's just say
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: you have twenty years left. Anything specific you want to accomplish,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: uh or do with that time? Well, you know, I'll
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: tell you something that's crazy. It's crazy because I'm from
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: New York, right. But John Coltrane is a quote that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: really hit me. He said, the only real regret in
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: life is not to become a saint. Now, you know,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: you would think well, what do I want to accomplish?
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: What do I want to do? Well, that's not a
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: bad mission statement to try and let go of all
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: the things that get in the way of of a
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: terrible life, you know, all the addictions and uh you know,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: uh kind of missing the mark and trying to uh
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: get older, you know, be being self centered and all that.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: You know, to try and shoot for something like that,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: that would be my mission statement to try. You know, listen,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I got friends that are looking at me and go
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: ain't gonna happen, you know, listen, Uh, you know I'll
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: never be you know, none of us are going to
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: be perfect, none of us. But it's not a bad
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: thing to to shoot for like perfection and and to
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: be a good person. I always say I got I'm
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: a thinker, you know, I like to think. So I
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: always say God without goodness is fanaticism. And goodness without
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: God doesn't endure it for very long. It has no legs.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: So I have all these kind of things. I got
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: my head, you know that, I that that keeps me
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: on track. You know, I got good people around me.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: You know, do you do you play music in the
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: house on a regular basis, Either records or playing yourself. Yeah,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: I well, I don't. There's no music blasting in my
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: house all the time. But you know, I have your phones.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: I got in the truck and I like to play
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: what I like in the truck, and I bought it,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: you know. But but I write in the house, I'm
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: always I'm always a you know, in a room with
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: my guitar and uh, because I tell you, it's just
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: I have no choice. These songs get dropped in your head. Bob.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's just something. It's a gift, right,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: It's a gift because it comes out of the wellspring
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: of creativity. And I'm under it. I just stand and
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: now we are all under it. You're a fountain of
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: wisdom and insight, and you have survived unlike Frankie Lyman.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking the time, Dione. Hey, Bob,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: thank you. We gotta work together. You stay well, stay safe,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: stay strong. Thanks for the positive words, because I we've
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: both been through it, but I certainly been through it.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left text