Latest / Autism Unmasked / Episode 19: What Meaningful and Supportive Employment Can Look Like for Autistic Adults

Transcript

Episode 19: What Meaningful and Supportive Employment Can Look Like for Autistic Adults · Autism Unmasked

• 0:14
  Hi, I'm Isabel.
• 0:16
  And I'm Kel
• 0:18
  and this is Autism Unmasked
• 0:27
  Welcome back to Autism Unmasked,
• 0:30
  where we unpack real experiences, resources
• 0:33
  and conversations from autistic voices and the people who support them.
• 0:38
  I'm Isabel and I'm Kel.
• 0:49
  Today we are joined by Mechaele Johnson,
• 0:52
  a job coach and behavioral specialist for Devereux,
• 0:56
  PA Adult Services, and self-advocate Emily, who works with Mechaele.
• 1:01
  Welcome to you both.
• 1:01
  And thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:03
  Oh, thank you for having us.
• 1:06
  Yeah, of course.
• 1:07
  Emily, can you introduce yourself and share a little bit about what you do?
• 1:12
  Oh, okay.
• 1:13
  My name is Emily to.
• 1:15
  It's up.
• 1:16
  It's, from Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.
• 1:18
  And for almost ten years, I've been a bigger opera.
• 1:23
  Wegmans.
• 1:25
  I currently work at the King of Prussia location.
• 1:28
  I'm originally from Colesville, and I worked at the Colesville Wegmans
• 1:32
  for almost seven years before I transferred to King of Prussia.
• 1:36
  That's awesome.
• 1:37
  That's a long time to work in one place.
• 1:39
  Yeah. Yes.
• 1:42
  Mechaele, can you explain your role at Devereaux
• 1:45
  and what your work with adults looks like from day to day?
• 1:48
  Is difficult day to day.
• 1:50
  Not difficult, but is is challenging.
• 1:52
  So, I currently came into Devereaux
• 1:54
  as direct support for, providing communities support.
• 1:58
  Emily was my second person that I took on.
• 2:02
  When Emily was moving to independent living,
• 2:05
  she had to transfer from one Wegmans to the next.
• 2:09
  So I took the support employment certification
• 2:12
  because I wanted to be the one that was her job coach.
• 2:16
  I also do behavioral specialist for Devereaux.
• 2:20
  So I wear many hats.
• 2:21
  Said there were community support, direct support, behavioral support, employment.
• 2:26
  And I also do cognitive rehabilitation therapy.
• 2:29
  So I do it all.
• 2:30
  So that's a lot, actually.
• 2:32
  Yes. From that it say depends on who I'm with.
• 2:35
  Some are direct support.
• 2:37
  Like I just came from bowling.
• 2:40
  We work on social skills.
• 2:41
  Where Emily, she's been really doing good.
• 2:44
  So we're kind of discontinuing her work support.
• 2:47
  She survived when she transferred.
• 2:49
  But if I'm doing work support, I'm there engaging with the managers,
• 2:53
  seeing what can I help the participant with?
• 2:56
  What do they need from me?
• 2:58
  And how can we make their job better?
• 3:00
  And, you know, incorporate what they need to the client.
• 3:04
  So my day can change.
• 3:05
  You can go from a bowling group to working on social skills and communication.
• 3:11
  Most of my clients pick their own goals.
• 3:15
  I believe in them. The goals. That's important.
• 3:17
  So I can change from day to day.
• 3:20
  I attend a 15 hour days. Some days?
• 3:25
  Yeah.
• 3:25
  I'm sure with all those different hats that you guys.
• 3:28
  It's a lot of a lot of things to do.
• 3:30
  How did the two of you first start working together?
• 3:34
  It was around 2018.
• 3:37
  I've been with cab since October of 2016.
• 3:40
  I didn't turn into a couple of years later.
• 3:43
  At the time, I was going from support person to support person.
• 3:48
  I been with one for almost a year before she left,
• 3:53
  and she started a few weeks later kind of round at the end of August.
• 3:58
  In 2018.
• 4:01
  We've been together ever since.
• 4:02
  Emily.
• 4:04
  What does meaningful employment
• 4:06
  look like to each of you personally?
• 4:09
  Well, honestly, it looks like that
• 4:14
  I would continue to push for
• 4:16
  what I want and need and
• 4:20
  and honestly, you know, my mom usually helps me out
• 4:24
  and ever since I lived on my own, I just do a lot myself.
• 4:31
  But sometimes I would need my mom, support.
• 4:37
  like somebody's giving them a chance.
• 4:39
  Understanding they're not one-size-fits-all.
• 4:42
  They can do more than what people give them the chance to do.
• 4:47
  And seeing them thrive is like wow, they did this.
• 4:51
  So it means a lot to me when I see them at work or, you know, the
• 4:56
  especially when a manager says, oh, she no longer needs job support.
• 5:00
  That's when I because I'm like, yes.
• 5:02
  So it means a lot to see them working
• 5:05
  and enjoying and having that experience.
• 5:09
  Yeah, Why would you say it's important that conversations about employment
• 5:13
  include autistic and disabled voices directly?
• 5:18
  It's about them.
• 5:21
  It is about them.
• 5:22
  They should have every say.
• 5:24
  If I want to go to a new job, I have a say up
• 5:26
  where I work, what I do at that job, and it's about them.
• 5:30
  Only they can advocate for themselves.
• 5:32
  And I'm they get teaching from the start advocating.
• 5:36
  Right. Am yes. And I yes.
• 5:39
  I mean I want people like me to feel seen.
• 5:44
  I have a few friends who weren't really seen.
• 5:48
  I knew well from high school that was going through a difficult time.
• 5:52
  I don't know what her relationship with her
• 5:55
  family is like, but I believe she's okay.
• 5:59
  Also, if you're putting so much work into your
• 6:02
  your employment that it's probably really rewarding
• 6:07
  to be seen in that way too and recognized for your work.
• 6:12
  Oh, thank you very much.
• 6:14
  I mean,
• 6:15
  I mean it's, I mean, I mean, I started Wegmans
• 6:20
  just around their 10th anniversary and
• 6:23
  I mean, I mean, I thought this would
• 6:29
  be something I would go to later,
• 6:31
  but then ten years later I'm still here.
• 6:35
  I feel like that's kind of like I mean I, I think for a lot of people
• 6:38
  that's kind of the goal.
• 6:39
  Yeah. Find some place where you want to stay.
• 6:42
  Yeah.
• 6:42
  It's I mean I mean
• 6:46
  I mean my parents have been at a job for like decades.
• 6:50
  Well, well, my mom was in a real estate agent
• 6:55
  since, like, the late 1990s.
• 6:58
  Well, she started as a technical nurse in the 1990s.
• 7:01
  And then in the 2000, she became a full time real estate agent.
• 7:07
  Is that something
• 7:07
  you wanted to see for yourself, watching your mom and dad at the same job?
• 7:11
  You wanted to stay at the same job?
• 7:14
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:15
  My dad has been at his job.
• 7:18
  He's a chemist at Arkema.
• 7:20
  He kind of retired like about 1 or 2 years ago.
• 7:26
  That's Emily what are some things that help
• 7:28
  you feel supported and successful in a workplace?
• 7:32
  Well I feel successful.
• 7:35
  I feel a lot more successful
• 7:38
  when mine has and my coworkers just see me doing.
• 7:43
  I'm doing a good job and told me I'm a good employer.
• 7:47
  And they just let me do do what I like.
• 7:53
  Michelle, how can employers create environments
• 7:57
  where people feel safe communicating their needs?
• 8:01
  Just by listening to them, giving them a chance.
• 8:05
  I believe that's the biggest thing.
• 8:07
  I have seen jobs, where?
• 8:11
  And having the right staff.
• 8:12
  That's important too.
• 8:14
  Because if you have staff and they go in and they're not helping them,
• 8:18
  a lot of jobs won't hire them because they all think that is
• 8:21
  a lot of times this the staff and what I heard.
• 8:24
  That's not supporting them.
• 8:26
  And then they have to step up.
• 8:27
  But I think just giving them that chance and listening to them and being open
• 8:32
  to giving them their chance, I think that makes a big deal.
• 8:36
  Yeah.
• 8:37
  What are some barriers autistic adults face
• 8:41
  when trying to find or keep employment.
• 8:45
  Oh to finding keep employment.
• 8:49
  Yeah.
• 8:50
  Well well well people go through job
• 8:54
  at or using the come play overlook
• 8:57
  because they think they can't do the job.
• 9:00
  I mean certain companies are really hard to work with.
• 9:06
  And I mean
• 9:06
  examples vacancies a a very difficult company to work with.
• 9:09
  You may not know what to expect but yet I got the job within two interviews
• 9:14
  because I got the job a few hours after my second interview.
• 9:19
  And it's good.
• 9:20
  Have you had any barriers, since you started
• 9:24
  working, do you think you faced any barriers?
• 9:27
  Well, well, I believe there's one
• 9:31
  barrier, but.
• 9:32
  But then overall, they just
• 9:36
  see me as me, and
• 9:37
  I just went on with my day.
• 9:42
  I think that was really important to what you said about the interviews,
• 9:46
  because I know when I was job searching that was always very overwhelming process.
• 9:51
  And it's definitely like, you know, first
• 9:54
  their first glance at you and it kind of sticks
• 9:58
  and they're, you know,
• 9:59
  you don't really have a chance for them to get to know you personally, I mean.
• 10:03
  Yes. Of course.
• 10:05
  so Emily what does self-advocacy at work look like for you?
• 10:10
  What does it look like for me?
• 10:14
  I mean, layman's
• 10:16
  sees me as a as a person.
• 10:18
  Then.
• 10:20
  And if I don't want something, I.
• 10:23
  And doing is fine.
• 10:27
  The. If I want to switch to my work
• 10:29
  days, I it will they won't let me.
• 10:32
  I mean I only did it like a couple of times and,
• 10:37
  and when I was working at the will like means they made me work
• 10:42
  like long hours on Saturdays, I think up
• 10:45
  until 2 or 3:00.
• 10:48
  Yeah.
• 10:49
  How did you how did you advocate for yourself.
• 10:52
  Well it was,
• 10:54
  well it was just one time when I had to go pick up a bridesmaid dress
• 10:58
  and I asked if I can get a little earlier and they said yes
• 11:03
  that's okay.
• 11:04
  Yeah. And I yeah.
• 11:05
  And I, yeah.
• 11:06
  With my mom's help I was able to
• 11:10
  realize I can't work Sundays anymore because like Ben says time and a half.
• 11:14
  Oh is that a barrier.
• 11:16
  Would you consider your a time that you can work a barrier.
• 11:20
  That you can't work more than a certain hours
• 11:23
  because then you lose some of your benefits.
• 11:25
  Yeah, absolutely. Because I,
• 11:28
  yeah I only work 15 hours now just about three days a week.
• 11:32
  It was four.
• 11:33
  But but we just cut it down to three days.
• 11:38
  I know that's, that's a barrier with a lot of Yeah.
• 11:42
  That are looking for work to and receive services.
• 11:46
  Can be tricky to find the the balance in between the two.
• 11:50
  I'm sure it's very frustrating. Two and three.
• 11:55
  What advice would you give to someone who feels nervous
• 11:58
  about disclosing a disability or asking for accommodations?
• 12:05
  Asking for combinations.
• 12:07
  Well well well a lot of people
• 12:11
  don't really see disabled workers as, as a, as human.
• 12:16
  They just
• 12:18
  really just
• 12:21
  think they are very slow and nervous. But
• 12:25
  but we're all human when we make mistakes.
• 12:29
  So what advice would you give
• 12:31
  to one of your friends that wanted to go to work.
• 12:34
  But they was nervous.
• 12:35
  What would you tell them.
• 12:38
  Just just breathe.
• 12:40
  Be yourself.
• 12:43
  message for anyone.
• 12:45
  Yeah.
• 12:46
  Michelle, how do you help build confidence in people
• 12:50
  who may have had negative work experiences in the past.
• 12:54
  Relay and said I'm letting them that know that it's okay.
• 12:57
  I've went in jobs, didn't get jobs.
• 12:59
  I went in the interview and, you know, just relay in that
• 13:04
  that happens to everyone is not because you have a disability.
• 13:07
  It's just everyone.
• 13:09
  Sometimes you're just not going to get the job, you know?
• 13:11
  And that's okay. We'll try again.
• 13:14
  Has really good confidence.
• 13:15
  So that's good.
• 13:18
  I know that's huge.
• 13:19
  Like, I had to learn how to not take it personally, too.
• 13:23
  And it's not about you as a person and more just about what they're
• 13:27
  looking for and the role.
• 13:29
  Yeah, because it does,
• 13:30
  especially when you're interviewing, it does feel kind of personal.
• 13:34
  Yeah. Me and I remind them that it's hard.
• 13:37
  I don't I can't interview, I'm horrible interviewing and it's hard for everyone.
• 13:42
  I think once they understand that we go through the same things that they go
• 13:46
  through when looking for a job, that they're a little more relaxed with it.
• 13:50
  Yeah. I mean.
• 13:51
  Emily, can you share a moment at work where you felt
• 13:55
  especially understood, supported or proud of yourself?
• 13:59
  I kind of felt proud of my
• 14:01
  self when I'm doing the job
• 14:04
  that I like to do in,
• 14:09
  and the people there are,
• 14:11
  they're very supportive of me at the workplace.
• 14:15
  And I felt completely under stood
• 14:18
  when I had an around about customers and employees.
• 14:22
  They appreciated.
• 14:24
  with the I mean, I honestly,
• 14:26
  customer service jobs are not my favorite,
• 14:30
  so I'm sure that's actually probably feels really good, too.
• 14:33
  When you feel like
• 14:34
  you can connect with a customer or like they feel comfortable with you.
• 14:39
  Yeah. I could never do it.
• 14:41
  I mean, I, I mean, I've been doing this for a long time.
• 14:44
  Yeah.
• 14:44
  I know what customer satisfaction is because
• 14:49
  I kind of see it
• 14:51
  like like our weekly huddles.
• 14:56
  What strengths do autistic employees
• 15:00
  bring specifically to workplaces that may get overall overlooked?
• 15:05
  Well, well, the strengths that
• 15:08
  I say oh boy, can
• 15:10
  bring is that he
• 15:13
  they do the best they can and
• 15:16
  I want to make sure they're doing it right
• 15:20
  and they hope they can do what they want.
• 15:25
  And I think they bring routine you know they, they show up.
• 15:29
  They're they're you know they try their best.
• 15:31
  So I think they, they bring routine because a lot of them are routine.
• 15:36
  So you give them a job they're going to do it.
• 15:39
  And I think that's overlooked
• 15:41
  that they think that maybe they're not going to show up on time.
• 15:44
  It took a long time to get Emily.
• 15:46
  She talked about scheduling off.
• 15:48
  It took a long time for us to talk her into taking days off
• 15:52
  for something she wanted to do.
• 15:54
  So I think that's important that they bring that and they personality.
• 15:58
  They bring a really good personality.
• 16:01
  Yep. Yeah. Mine.
• 16:03
  No one guy from my original looking is a completely routine kind of works.
• 16:09
  And custodial.
• 16:11
  All he does is job right.
• 16:13
  Every single time.
• 16:16
  What does progress
• 16:17
  look like beyond just getting a job.
• 16:20
  Well, behavior and
• 16:24
  skills and
• 16:27
  team building.
• 16:29
  Did you say independence? Yes.
• 16:32
  Okay, so let's can you explain why you have more independence?
• 16:35
  What do you where are you currently at?
• 16:38
  I'm. I'm currently on a farm. And.
• 16:41
  And grandma.
• 16:42
  Well, my roommate's away, but.
• 16:44
  I'm in the job program.
• 16:46
  I live in one of the apartments here.
• 16:51
  I know
• 16:53
  when I, had my customer
• 16:55
  service job, I worked at a movie theater.
• 16:59
  And I do think that actually the as much as I didn't like customer service,
• 17:03
  it did make me feel more comfortable talking to people do.
• 17:09
  Is that
• 17:09
  to do you feel more comfortable interacting after building.
• 17:13
  No skills. Interacting with customers?
• 17:15
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:16
  And now you talk to them and you try to help them.
• 17:19
  Yeah.
• 17:20
  But you don't have those skills before work. Right.
• 17:23
  When you first started those were skills that we had to work on.
• 17:26
  Yeah absolutely.
• 17:28
  during Disability Employment Awareness Month.
• 17:32
  What do you wish more people understood about disabled employees.
• 17:37
  Well I wish or is that.
• 17:42
  Everyone gets a chance
• 17:43
  to do what they want because.
• 17:47
  Because now people see that.
• 17:52
  That everyone needs a job.
• 17:54
  I mean, my neighbor is a
• 17:57
  is trying to find a job ever since he came here.
• 18:01
  So you wish that they give they just give people a chance.
• 18:04
  Employers give you a chance and not look at as a one size fits all.
• 18:10
  Y'all just want a chance, right?
• 18:11
  You just want to be seen and heard.
• 18:14
  Yeah, they want to be really
• 18:17
  seen.
• 18:20
  And I think it's important
• 18:22
  what you said about finding something that you actually enjoy doing.
• 18:26
  Oh yeah.
• 18:27
  What changes would you like to see
• 18:30
  in workplaces or in hiring practices.
• 18:34
  I want us to see and the practices is that
• 18:39
  the interview must see that the person can do the job.
• 18:44
  And so as the people who run the place.
• 18:48
  And I think not having a one size fits all interview,
• 18:52
  you know, I know it's hard for a lot of people to disclose.
• 18:56
  Emily is not one of those.
• 18:57
  She's like, hey, I'm on a spectrum, and that's okay.
• 19:01
  So I wish that during the process they're open to,
• 19:05
  you know, meeting them where they're,
• 19:08
  you know, whether they're reading off a script,
• 19:11
  especially if, you know, now, you know, somebody come, I can look and go, okay.
• 19:16
  And change it up, the interview process and just giving them a chance.
• 19:19
  See what they can do. Yeah. What do you think?
• 19:23
  That's, Absolutely.
• 19:25
  I went through a very long
• 19:28
  process back in 2016.
• 19:31
  I had to go through some certain tests
• 19:34
  and everything, and I just went to work right away.
• 19:38
  were the test easy that you took in the beginning.
• 19:41
  Yeah. It's not just some help.
• 19:44
  No it's it was just some simple questions
• 19:47
  such as proper uniform attire and everything.
• 19:51
  Okay. For both of you.
• 19:53
  What's one thing you hope listeners take away from this conversation.
• 19:57
  Okay. What they take away from is
• 20:00
  that lots of people need jobs out there.
• 20:04
  And lots of people need to
• 20:08
  fight for a place they want to live in.
• 20:10
  Yeah.
• 20:11
  I think they'll take away.
• 20:13
  I think they need to try.
• 20:15
  Just go out there and try is not going to be easy, is going to be hard.
• 20:20
  But to just go out there and try, you know,
• 20:23
  and keep trying and have to have that confidence.
• 20:27
  And I think that's where it comes in building those confidence skills.
• 20:31
  Also one can do is say no, we all been told no, I've been told no.
• 20:34
  And jobs and understanding that that's okay.
• 20:38
  Yeah.
• 20:38
  And that employers if they're watching is the give them a chance
• 20:43
  if it might become some of the best employ employees
• 20:47
  if they just give them a chance.
• 20:49
  Where can people learn more about Devereux.
• 20:51
  Adult services or employment support.
• 20:55
  They can reach out to Sasha at several camp.
• 20:58
  She is the outreach coordinator and her number is (215) 539-3878.
• 21:06
  And you can reach out to her whether there's direct support,
• 21:08
  behavior support, job coaching and, one of the job coaches.
• 21:14
  So they can reach out and then she'll connect them with the right people.
• 21:18
  And Gail is also one of the people at camp.
• 21:21
  She's director.
• 21:23
  You can reach out to her as well.
• 21:25
  And she's very good at what she does and she cares.
• 21:29
  And that's what I think.
• 21:29
  We need more people in this field that actually cares.
• 21:33
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:34
  Thank you guys.
• 21:35
  Thank you both so much.
• 21:37
  We really appreciate talking to you and hearing your insight on employment.
• 21:42
  I think it's one of
• 21:43
  the larger sort of concerns, probably for the general public, too.
• 21:47
  Yeah, just in general, it's it's can be a really stressful,
• 21:52
  thing to try to get into and find a job that fits.
• 21:57
  So it's I think it's important to have those supports in place.
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  Thank you for having us.
• 22:04
  Yeah. All right. So you guys. You can break now.
• 22:13
  We hope today's conversation helps
• 22:15
  listeners feel a little less alone in their journey.
• 22:19
  If you'd like to learn more, check the episode description for links from ASERT.
• 22:23
  You can also find additional resources any time at PAautism.org.
• 22:39
  Autism Unmasked is brought to you by the Assert Collaborative,
• 22:42
  which is funded by the Office of Developmental Programs
• 22:44
  within the Pennsylvania Department of Human Services.