Latest / The You Project / #1655 Reconnecting With Your Body - Dr. Bill Sullivan

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#1655 Reconnecting With Your Body - Dr. Bill Sullivan · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I get a team.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm here with my favorite scientist, my favorite researcher, doctor
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Bill Sullivan, all the way across the other side of
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: the world in the States.
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  Speaker 3: Hi, mate, how are you doing great? Meat, Good to
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: see you again.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good to see you, buddy. We were just talking.
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  Speaker 2: I was just telling you, which is probably the world
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  Speaker 2: doesn't need to know this, But I have this weird
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  Speaker 2: thing that happens everyone, and that is I could be
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  Speaker 2: sitting at my computer like I am now, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: just chipping away at stuff and just doing it, and
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  Speaker 2: all things are kind of just status quo, just humming along.
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  Speaker 2: But then when I have to really focus on something,
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  Speaker 2: like I was saying to Bill, read an academic paper
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  Speaker 2: or something that for me is cognitively challenging, where it's
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: extreme focus concentration, I've got to be fully present. I
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  Speaker 2: get hot and I usually have to take off Often
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  Speaker 2: I'll turn off the if the heat is on, even
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  Speaker 2: in the middle of winter, I'll open the door to
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  Speaker 2: my office, I'll take off a layer of clothing. I
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  Speaker 2: think maybe a lot of people don't realize that twenty
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  Speaker 2: percent of our energy expenditure is the brain built, which
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  Speaker 2: is a lot of energy for a tiny little thing
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  Speaker 2: sitting in the old skull.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, and that's what they estimate happens with the
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  Speaker 3: brain at rest, So when you're using it, it ramps
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  Speaker 3: up even higher. So it's probably not surprising that your
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  Speaker 3: body's getting a little overheated reading some of those papers.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, if we talk down on you and
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  Speaker 3: you're you're down to your underwear, we know what you've
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  Speaker 3: been doing, right, you've been reading academic papers.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, look at him, he's in his boxes. Clearly he's studying.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll go obviously obviously with.
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  Speaker 1: That one hundred percent.
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  Speaker 2: It is funny though, like, so my body weight is
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  Speaker 2: eighty six kilos, what's that eighty four one seventy it's
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  Speaker 2: about one ninety pounds, and the brain weighs about one
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  Speaker 2: point three or four, which is kind of three pounds ish.
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  Speaker 2: That's a very small percentage of our body weight for
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  Speaker 2: a very high percentage about energy use, isn't it?
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  Speaker 1: That's wire is portionate.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, if you think about it, that
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  Speaker 3: is the key organ that defines who we are, and
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  Speaker 3: it takes a lot of energy just to keep it
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  Speaker 3: running at a basal level, you know, just couch potatoes
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  Speaker 3: is still consuming twenty percent of your caloric intake. So
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  Speaker 3: if you happen to use it beyond couch potato, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you're going to burn some more calories, which is kind
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  Speaker 3: of fun. You know, you can just sit around thinking
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  Speaker 3: and that's kind of an exercise, you know, it.
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  Speaker 1: Is it is.
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  Speaker 2: I remember a sign outside a gym near where I
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  Speaker 2: live and it said something like thinking about going to
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  Speaker 2: the gym doesn't burn any calories. You've actually got to
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  Speaker 2: turn up or something. And I'm like, well, technically they're wrong.
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  Speaker 3: You know, technically they're wrong. But you're probably not going
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  Speaker 3: to lose too much weight or increase your health parameters
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  Speaker 3: in a good way just by thinking too much. So
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  Speaker 3: I understand marginal game.
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  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Hey, I want to start with something
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  Speaker 2: weird today. Now I found this video. You I haven't
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  Speaker 2: told you. By the way, we did know prep. I
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: do a little bit of prep everyone, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's solid three four minutes. But Doctor Bill and I
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: literally chat for about one or two minutes before we
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: go live, so he doesn't know this is coming. It's
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: not anything weird, and I don't even know how we
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  Speaker 2: get away, but this is this is a video from
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  Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson was talking to a lady, some health expert.
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  Speaker 2: I apologize or couldn't find her name, but you'll find
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  Speaker 2: it everyone if you want to. So it's Tucker Carlson
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  Speaker 2: talking to this lady. I won't tell you what it's about.
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  Speaker 2: It only goes for about a minute.
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  Speaker 1: Mate. I want you to have a listen, and then
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  Speaker 1: I want to have a chat. Is that all right
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  Speaker 1: with you?
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  Speaker 3: You want me to watch Tucker Carlson. You're gonna say
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  Speaker 3: I want you to watch I know, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: it's not about him.
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  Speaker 1: I know you're probably a fan, but not a fan.
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  Speaker 1: But here we go, here we go.
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  Speaker 4: Just give us the being slain condition of health in
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  Speaker 4: the nastace, absolutely so. Seventy four percent of American adults
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  Speaker 4: now are overweight or obese. Close to fifty percent of
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  Speaker 4: children are overweight or obese. Seventy seven percent of young
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  Speaker 4: adults are unfit to serve in the military because of
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  Speaker 4: these issues like obesity.
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  Speaker 3: Now, let's talk about diabetes.
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  Speaker 4: Fifty percent full fifty percent of American adults have pre
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  Speaker 4: diabetes or type two diabetes, which is a fundamental issue
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  Speaker 4: in how ourselves contrasts the country Tucker have pre diabetes
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  Speaker 4: or type two diabetes, and thirty percent of teens now
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  Speaker 4: have pre diabetes. We have eighteen percent of teens with
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  Speaker 4: fatty liver disease, a disease that used to be in
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  Speaker 4: late stage alcoholics. Cancer rates are skyrocketing and the young
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  Speaker 4: and the elderly. Young adult cancers are up seventy nine percent,
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  Speaker 4: and this is the first year in American history We're
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  Speaker 4: estimated to have over two million cases of cancer. Twenty
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  Speaker 4: five percent of American women are on an antidepressant medication.
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  Speaker 4: Forty percent of eighteen year olds have a mental health diagnosis.
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  Speaker 4: We have the highest infant and maternal and mortality rate
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  Speaker 4: in the entire developed world. Infertility is at peak rates.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know how this is not front
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  Speaker 4: page news. Infertility is going up one percent per year.
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  Speaker 4: Sperm counts are going down one percent per year since
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  Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies. Now, the thing that people need to
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  Speaker 4: understand is that all of these conditions are caused or
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  Speaker 4: driven by the exact same thing, which is metabolic dysfunction.
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  Speaker 2: I would imagine, I would imagine that Australia is similar,
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  Speaker 2: not in terms of absolute numbers, because we have a
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  Speaker 2: smaller population, but you know, percentage wise, I wouldn't think
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  Speaker 2: we would be drastically different.
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  Speaker 1: What did you think about that?
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  Speaker 3: Those are some pretty sobering statistics, and obviously I can't
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  Speaker 3: fact check all of them, but I can say that
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  Speaker 3: I've heard the same trends. You know, clearly our country
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  Speaker 3: and many many in the western developed world have problems
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  Speaker 3: with obesity, which spiral into problems with diabet There's also
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  Speaker 3: I believe what she said about fertility and sperm counts
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  Speaker 3: is also true. I've read similar articles to that effect
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  Speaker 3: as well, although I don't know that it's completely attributable
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  Speaker 3: to metabolic dysfunction. There are many other potential explanations that
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  Speaker 3: could factor into changes in fertility rates, some of which
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  Speaker 3: have nothing to do with biology at all, but just
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  Speaker 3: psychological trends, social trends. So but yeah, a lot of
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  Speaker 3: what she's saying, those trends, at least I've heard similar statistics.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting that like, we've never been more educated, we've
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  Speaker 2: never had more resources, Like we've never been I was
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  Speaker 2: going to say, we've never been smarter. That's not true behaviorally,
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  Speaker 2: maybe we're stupid, who knows, But yeah, it seems that
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  Speaker 2: despite all of our technology and all of our research
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  Speaker 2: breakthroughs and everything that's happening in science, as a.
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  Speaker 1: Bunch of people living on.
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  Speaker 2: A planet, from a physical wellness point of view, we
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  Speaker 2: seem to be going backwards, not forward.
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  Speaker 3: Stock Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. And it's
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  Speaker 3: like we're a victim of our own success. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: the human species has been so successful around the world
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  Speaker 3: in creating a lifestyle where we have easy access to
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  Speaker 3: high caloric foods, which we used to struggle obtaining a
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  Speaker 3: long time ago, you know, on the African savannah. So
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  Speaker 3: now we have a bounty of those high calorie foods,
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  Speaker 3: and our brain is wired to lust after them. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: our brain is wired to crave them, and they're in abundance.
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  Speaker 3: So there's a mismatch between how our brain reacts to
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  Speaker 3: these foods and drives our behavior and the environ in
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  Speaker 3: which we've currently in which we currently live. And I
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  Speaker 3: say we're a victim of our own success, because you know,
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  Speaker 3: humanity as a collective species has done a marvelous job
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  Speaker 3: utilizing agriculture, domesticating animals, creating foods that can deliver a
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  Speaker 3: high amount of the you know, nutrition, but also a
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  Speaker 3: high amount of the bad things that we need to
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  Speaker 3: get out of our diet if we want to get
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  Speaker 3: back to a healthy lifestyle. You also couple that to
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  Speaker 3: our intelligence in creating machinery and industries that can do
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  Speaker 3: hard labor for us. So the amount of physical labor
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  Speaker 3: that most human beings on the planet have to engage
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  Speaker 3: in has gone way down, and in fact, most jobs
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  Speaker 3: are sedentary. You know, you're just sitting on your butt
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  Speaker 3: all day and there's not a lot of time left
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  Speaker 3: for exercise and activity, which again, back in All D's
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  Speaker 3: on the African savannah, we were always hunting, foraging, moving around.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we were more of a nomad species, relocating
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  Speaker 3: from place to police. Yeah, long story short, we were
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  Speaker 3: getting a lot of physical activity that we simply don't
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  Speaker 3: obtain today.
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  Speaker 2: I heard something. It's it's probably not an accurate stat
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  Speaker 2: but I think it couldn't. It might be somewhere in
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  Speaker 2: the ballpark, but the average Australian expends about eight hundred
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  Speaker 2: calories a day, which is a lot of calories, but
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  Speaker 2: eight hundred calories a day less than fifty years ago.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, we're the sit down generation like we've
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  Speaker 2: never in the history of our species. We've never sat
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  Speaker 2: more than we currently sit, because you know, I would
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  Speaker 2: assume ninety percent of jobs are done seated or I
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  Speaker 2: don't know what percentage, but a lot, you know. So
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  Speaker 2: it's not only our we're eating more. So the volume
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  Speaker 2: is up, the quality of food depending on you know
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  Speaker 2: who and where, but the quality of food arguably is
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  Speaker 2: down or the crap, you know, more more processed food,
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  Speaker 2: less nutritional value, all of those things. But yeah, overall,
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  Speaker 2: we just don't like incidental and occupational activity as we
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  Speaker 2: call us ex sized scientists call it incidental and occupational
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  Speaker 2: activity is down. So in general terms, we just don't
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  Speaker 2: move as much as we used to move fifty years ago,
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  Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, and especially hundreds of years ago,
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  Speaker 2: when you know you would think a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: moved a lot.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and then you know that's that's good news
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  Speaker 3: bad news. I mean, we know these are the problems
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  Speaker 3: that are leading to obesity and diabetes. We know it's
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  Speaker 3: poor diet, we know it's not enough exercise, and you
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  Speaker 3: know we should throw stress into that equation too. Remarkably,
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  Speaker 3: it goes back to the paradise you alluded to earlier.
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  Speaker 3: Craig in that we live in a tremendously wonderful time.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, a lot of our basic needs are met. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: even if you don't do a great deal of work
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  Speaker 3: or make a lot of money, you can live a
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  Speaker 3: pretty comfortable lifestyle. But we generate an extraordinary amount of
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  Speaker 3: unnecessary stress and pressure and anxiety, and I think that
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  Speaker 3: feeds back into making many of us miserable, which drives
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  Speaker 3: appetite and discourages people from wanting to move around and exercise.
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  Speaker 3: So I think ironically we have a higher level of
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  Speaker 3: stress than maybe our evolutionary ancestors even did.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I often think this.
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  Speaker 2: Imagine going back a couple of hundred years and just
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  Speaker 2: like being there for a day and you say, guess what.
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  Speaker 2: In the future, you're just gonna like, if you're hot,
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  Speaker 2: you're just going to push a button. And I'll go,
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  Speaker 2: what's a button? We have to explain that you're going
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  Speaker 2: to push a button on a wall and the room's
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: going to get cool, and then when you're cold, you
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: push another button, then the room will get warm. And
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  Speaker 2: by the way, you're just going to have this thing
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  Speaker 2: where it's going to have all this food in it.
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  Speaker 2: That's fresh all the time and it keeps it cool.
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  Speaker 2: And then you're going to have this other thing that
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  Speaker 2: you can cook food in about ninety seconds. It's called
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  Speaker 2: a microwave ove. And and then you're going to have this
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  Speaker 2: thing you can just turn and cold fresh water comes
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  Speaker 2: out like as much as you want. Like they'd be like,
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  Speaker 2: that's bullshit, that's aw or you know, you know what.
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  Speaker 3: Would happen to you if you were to go back
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  Speaker 3: to the middle you would be burned at the steak
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  Speaker 3: as a heretic and loon. That's what you would be,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: you know, that's what they would do to you. Well,
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  Speaker 3: Craig on the barbie.
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  Speaker 1: But even imagine like when I was born, you know,
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  Speaker 1: in the sixties.
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  Speaker 2: Imagine if you said, in the not too distant future,
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  Speaker 2: you're going to have you know, that telephone on the
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  Speaker 2: wall with the bloody rotary do siling system. Well, you're
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: going to have a phone in your pocket that's you know,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: like the size of a pack of cigarettes or smaller,
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  Speaker 2: because that's what they had in their pocket in those days.
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  Speaker 1: And not only not only will you be.
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  Speaker 2: Able to talk to anyone anywhere in the world, it'll
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  Speaker 2: also basically have more information than you know, all the
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  Speaker 2: Encyclopedia Britannicas, which were also big in the sixties, put
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  Speaker 2: together times a billion in your pocket and you can
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  Speaker 2: just ask it a question and it will tell you
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  Speaker 2: the answer to any like a game. And it's not
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  Speaker 2: like that was a thousand years ago, that was last week.
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  Speaker 2: In terms of the evolutionary you know timeline.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy to think about, and it would be
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  Speaker 3: a fun experiment to be able to go back and
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  Speaker 3: see what those individuals thought. I mean, you could even
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  Speaker 3: like go back in time to the Middle Ages and see,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you know, you're not feeling well, not because of bad
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: error or because of demons or you know, gods that
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: are angry at you, it's because of this tiny germ. Oh,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: we'll show it to me. Well, we need a microscope
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: to see it. What's a microscope? And so we're going
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: to have medicines one day that can get rid of
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: these germs and make people well. And yeah, they'll just
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: be looking at you like you're crazy. And it makes
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  Speaker 3: you think, twenty forty one hundred years from now, what
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: are humans going to come up with that we can't
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  Speaker 3: even imagine today. Yeah, you know, you know, I'm assuming
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  Speaker 3: we last that long. What are they going to come
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  Speaker 3: up with that'll just blow us away? It's it's fun
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: to philosophize and think about those sorts of things.
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  Speaker 1: And it's amazing.
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  Speaker 2: Like we look back at the science in inverted commas
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: from you know, twenty thirty forty years ago, and some
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: of it was solid and some of it were like,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: how on earth?
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: How on earth? You know?
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Even for example, with the food pyramid is one that
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I speak about too much, but you know, that was absolute,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: that was break groundbreaking research and we found out that
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it isn't and it's bullshit, but you know, but at
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the time, everyone was like, this is the way to eat.
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  Speaker 2: Low fat eating equals low fat humans, and off we go.
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  Speaker 2: And yeah, it makes you wonder in fifty years what
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to talk about that was science in inverted
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  Speaker 2: commas in twenty twenty four, That to them will be laughable.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I'm going to make a prediction because I
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: won't be here to verify it or not. I won't
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: care if I'm right or wrong, but I'll make a
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  Speaker 3: prediction that we are obsessed way too much with the
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: individual components of of you know, what types of bats
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: and how much sugar and all this other stuff that
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: are in foods. We're too obsessed with that. And you know,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: to an extent, we do need to pay attention to
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: how much sugar, salt, and fat are in there. But
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: what that misses? What that misses or all the chemicals
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: that are put into food, all these preserved and all
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: these other chemicals that we have no idea what they
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: might be doing in our body, either alone or in combination,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: because they're not sufficiently tested before they're utilized in food products.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Europe is a little better about this, and lo and behold, Craig.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: They don't have a huge obesity problem.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: I just came back from a from a tour of
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: the Mediterranean, Okay, and it's striking the difference of how
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: thin people are, how lean people are in general over
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: there compared to almost anywhere you put yourself into in America.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: There's it's a striking difference. But one thing that is
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: not different when you go to the Mediterranean, it is
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: full of cafes, pastries, canola's, gelato. There's all kinds of sweets, pastas, carbs, everything. Right,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: The diet doesn't strike me as being ridiculously different. Maybe
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the portions are smaller, and there's there's more fruits and
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: vegetables and stuff. But the thing that struck me was
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: the freshness of the foods. Okay, people like go out
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: to the market and or their gardens and grab what
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: they want to eat right then and there, right off
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  Speaker 3: the vine, so to speak. Okay, it's all fresh. There's
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: no chemicals, there's no preservatives, and maybe the stuff that
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: we're putting into food in order to process it or
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: ultra process it, maybe those are the real culprits. And
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: fifty years from now, my prediction is that we are
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: going to sort some of that out and we're going
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: to look back and say, oh, why were we so
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: obsessed with a little too much sugar? It was these
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: chemicals that were making everybody so large.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: That is a very very interesting hypothesis. Stock I don't
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: disagree with you.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And you know, further to that, when you have I
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: always talk to people about you know, packaging and food labeling.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And you know what's written on the front of the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: box or the can or the packet is advertising. And
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the tiny little box, the tiny little square down the
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: bottom of the back of the package with the teeny
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: tiny writing that you really, I can't read it because
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: my eyes are shit and I'm old. But there's a
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: reason that it's hidden away down the bottom at the back,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: and there's a reason that the writing is so small,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and there's a reason that they're trying to make it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: is as obscure as possible, because they don't want you
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to pay attention to that, you know. And it's funny
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: when you look at something like and this is ironic,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: but a protein bar, you go, I might have a
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: protein bar that's better than a Mars baruck.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I mean some of them, like some of those protein
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: bars in inverted commas, which sell like hotcakes in Australia
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: because ironically hotcakes, we think, you know, that's a healthy option.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Some of them have got fifty ingredients and forty of
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the ingredients you don't know what they are.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And we have the same trends over here, people
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: gobbling these things down like their candy, and they're marketed
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: as if they're not candy. Yeah, you know, and it's
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: kind of goofy to me. I think one of the
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: manufacturers of these bars got sued because they were making
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: health cleans, when in fact they were just a glorified
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: candy bar.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, I don't know how
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: it is in the States, but there's a I think
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: it's called the Heart Foundation in Australia where you can
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: buy what's called a healthy Heart tick or something like that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So companies pay.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: It's all about just a transaction to get this tick
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: of approval from the Heart Foundation on the front of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: their product. And it doesn't it's not because it meets
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: some criteria. I could be wrong on this, but I'm
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: pretty sure. Maybe it's got to meet some very low
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: level criteria. But for the most part, my understanding is
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: it's something that companies pay for, which is good for
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the Heart Foundation, I guess, because it gives them money
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: in the bank. But it seemed to be some kind of,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: you know, brand improving kind of strategy. Do you think
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: that like talking about the past and the now. I
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: always feel like we have become disconnected from the wisdom
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: of our body. And I know that sounds fluffy, but
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: you know, like our body is so smart now. Bio
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: is a biofeedback system that's always talking to us. But
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: you know, in the days of instant gratification and fast
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: food and basically dopamine at will, you know, or dopamine
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: providers of sorts, you know, like where we can just
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: push that button and get a quick fix. I feel
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: like we've disconnected from our body in a way.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: We are totally disconnected. There's a scientific term for these phenomenon,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and it's called evolutionary mismatch, and it's basically that we
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: are not born for this time. We are not born
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: for the modern environment that we have created. We are
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: born to literally be hunters and gatherers and small tribes
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: on the African savannah. That's what we've evolved to be
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: for tens of millions of years. So that is deeply,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: deeply wired into our brain and that's just how things are,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: that's our history. But you put us in. You put
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: an animal like that into the modern world where it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: a veritable candy land and you don't have to move
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: around as much. You know, you sit and watch television
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: passively for hours. You have an animal that is ill
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: suited for its environment, and there's negative health consequences that
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: start to accumulate over time with that lifestyle. And it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: a catch twenty two with our brain because back in
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: our old evolutionary days, you know, millions of years ago,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: when it was hard to come by something sweet or
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: something fatty, our brain would go absolutely nuts when it
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: finally tasted something that had something that had a sweet
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: flavor or a fatty flavor, it would just go nuts.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Dopamine would be surging because it's a substantial reward, and
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: it would induce us to move our bodies to go
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: find those foods as much as we can. But they
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: were quite rare, so they were they were rare treats.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: But now we can just sit and hit the dopamine
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: button all day long, popping in crisp after crisp, you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: candy bar after candy bar, and you know that our
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: body was not built to handle that level of sugar, fat,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: and salt. It just simply is not. And then you
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: couple that on top of the fact that many of these,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: you know, these these candies and potato chips and pretzels
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: and so on, are highly processed foods with all sorts
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: of other chemicals added into that. You just have an
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: incredibly artificial nutritional source that our body has not evolved
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: to metabolize properly. Okay, it's evolved to enjoy the taste
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: and the texture, but it's not evolved to translate it
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: into something nutritionally valuable.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like one of the challenges is,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: you know that you can push the dopamine button and
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: go all right, I'm going to eat the cake, or
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to eat the candy bar, or I'm gonna
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: eat the crisps, or I'm going to eat whatever it
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: is that thing that while simultaneously being in a body
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: that isn't working well, you know, and simultaneously thinking I
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: want to get in shape. I want to change my
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: body composition, lose fat, lose weight, be healthier, have more energy,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: have more function, improve my immune system, create a longer
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: health span, all that stuff. But for the moment, I'm
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: going to eat this cake because when I eat this cake,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I get instant gratification. But if I don't eat the cake,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: then I don't get instant transformation. And so I'll eat
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the cake today, but I'll start tomorrow. And that becomes
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a twenty year in a dialogue. And now I'm fifty
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: two and now I'm morbidly obese. My back hurts, I've
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: got high blood pressure, I'm diabetic, and I've almost been
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: changing my operating system since I was thirty, and that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: is I think that is the hard thing about delaying
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: gratification is that they're you know, the point of the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: point is that we love that fix that whatever right now,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: and when we say no, you just left in this
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: kind of space of well, this is not much fun.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And the worst thing I've put that in inverted commas
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: is that you've got to have quite a lot of
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: those days to actually see real shift, and then you've
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: got a string years together to actually change your you know,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: your hardwired operating system. And this is you know, when
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: you've been eating and thinking and behaving and socializing and
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: living a certain way for twenty five years, you're not
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: going to fix that by next Tuesday.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: No, it's a step wise process and it's not something
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: This is a misconception that a lot of people have,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: and that's why fad diets are so popular. Everybody's looking
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: for a quick fix, just like you know, the satisfaction
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: you get from a piece of cake. They want to
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: get a quick fix out of a dietary program. And
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: that's not going to happen. That's not how these things work. Yes,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: these are more like lifelong changes. Lifestyle changes. You have
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: to program your brain to resist instant gratification, keeping in
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: mind the long term goal and the long term satisfaction
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: that will come with a healthier you know, with a
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: healthier body. So it's hard for human beings to think
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: like that because again we're not evolutionarily designed to think
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: in the long term. Our lives used to be much shorter, okay,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: and resources were much more scarce, so we operated on
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: a very here and now level okay. And again that
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: kind of behavior is deeply ingrained into our brain. It's
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: deeply hardwired there. So you really do have to put
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: forth substantial effort. And that's why this is not easy. Crazy.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: This is why so many people fail when they try.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Is you have to put forth a daily effort to
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: try to resist the instant gratification, keeping in mind the
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: real prize is down the road, and it's full of
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: hurdles to get there, but it's worth getting there.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I my listeners know this, but don't after you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: at doc, But I spent. I always had food issues
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid because I was a fat
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: kid and I had everything that wasn't niled down. And
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: then I got in shape, lean strong, functional, and then
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: towards my late twenties and early thirties, I had five businesses.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Life was good, making lots, do you know. From the
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: outside looking in, everything was good. But my volatile relationship
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: with food kind of re emerged, and I started to
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: just I'll have a little bit of this, little bit
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: of that, and that won't hurt you know, one piece
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: won't kill me, that kind of idea, and of course
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: one piece won't literally kill you generally. But then I
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: looked up a minute later, which was probably a year later,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and I was basically fat again.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And I remember, so here I am.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I'm this guy who's got quite a high profile in
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Australian fitness and workshops and seminars all around the country.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I'm writing for magazines and news. I'm doing all this
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: stuff and I'm lying. I'm lying to people about what
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I do, you know, And I'm wearing bigger and baggier
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: workout so people won't know.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Of course they won't.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: No, nobody could possibly tell, because these are magic clothes
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: right right right Like for me, I don't know about you,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: but for me, like food was it really took until
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I was and even though I knew what to do.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I had pretty good understanding, I was pretty educated all that.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: For me, it just took, I would say, until I
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: was about thirty five before I got I would say
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: almost the analogy would be clean and sober, do you
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Where I wasn't pushing itself or others. It took me
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: a long time.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: I've heard psychologists talk in those terms about food addiction
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: and john food addiction, treating it as such and people
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: who can finally modify their habits as kind of a
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: sobering up. I've heard that before. So it's a pretty
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: apt analogy, I would say. And there's even been studies
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: that show that sugar lates up to seeing parts of
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: your brain cocaine will, So there are some parallels there.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: And everyone is well aware how hard it is to
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: break addiction with substances like cocaine or alcohol. But what
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: we don't appreciate very much is it's just as hard
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: in many cases to break those addictions to sugar, fat,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: and salt as well. I applaud you for doing it,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: and I know a lot of people struggle with it because,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: like I said, we are evolutionarily hardwired to go after
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: those types of foods. So we're basically trying to put
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: a break on the human spirit itself. We're trying to
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: put a break on innate, impulsive actions, and that's really
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: difficult to do, but it can be done. And what
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I found, you know, as I started to eat better
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: and because you know, as you get older, your metabolism
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: isn't what it used to be, and the same foods
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: that you put into you start to pack on pounds
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: rather than just magically, you know, disappear. So I noticed
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: in my twenties I was gaining weight for like the
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: first time in my life, but my diet wasn't changing much.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: But since my metabolism was changing because of age and
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: I was a little more sedentary in those days, I
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: had to make some changes in order to stay as
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: lean as I used to be. And I wanted to
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: do that because in my brain I knew it was healthy.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm here working in biomedical sciences, so I
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: have to toe that line, right, you know, I have
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: to practice what I preach, kind of like your story
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: was alluding to. So I made those changes and they
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: were really difficult, you know, breaking habits and forming new ones.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: It's serious business, but it can be done. And the
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: good news is that, at least in my experience, as
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: you start to eat healthier and as you start to
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: move around more and get more exercise, these sorts of
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: activities become addictive as well. So you're trading off an
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: addiction for junk food for an addiction with healthy behavior. Okay.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I used to be addicted to mountain dew, doctor pepper,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: these sodas, okay, these are these sugar waters. I made
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: a clean cold turkey break from those after realizing it's
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: hard for me to fathom that. When I was younger,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I did not appreciate how much sugar was in a
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: single can of pop or soda. And once I learned that,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: once someone told me that, I'm like, holy crap, I
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: really got to knock this stuff off. This is an
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: easy way to start losing weight. Okay, So I quit
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: them cold turkey. I just started drinking water. You know,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: water is plenty of refreshing for me. That was one
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: of the biggest changes I saw. You know, in my
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: history of dealing with weight issues, is that just dropping
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: soda out of your life can work. Wonders. But then
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, get addicted to all sorts of teas,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: you know, and you know there's other alternatives out there
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: that you can find and enjoy with as much you know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: passion as you did the other products. The big difference
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: is they're healthier for you.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: One of the things I used to do doc when
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I owned gyms and I did you know, my I
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: was at the cold face of personal training forever. And
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: when people would come in, we'd do an assessment, which
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: would be, you know, there'd be a bit of formal stuff,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a bit of hesting per se, you know, strength and fitness,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: and a few bits and pieces, but we'd have a
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: really good chat and I would say to people.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: People would say, no, I've got to I eat too much,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I moved too little, all that kind of stuff.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: And I'd say, take me through a typical day of
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: what you put in your body. And they'd tell me breakfast, lunch,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and dinner. And I'd go, yeah, but tell me about
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: all the stuff you drink. And what was interesting was
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: a bigger percentage of people than you might imagine drink
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: about a thousand calories a day on top of their meals.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Right, they make coffees over here that are almost a
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: thousand calories in one serving. It's insane.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what people don't realize.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So I used to say to people, what we're going
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: to do, Like if obviously this would be a collaboration,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: but I'd say, why don't we do this, Why don't
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: we just cut out liquid calories for one month, Let's
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: try that. Let's leave your food as it is, because
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: my experience is the more things you try and change
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: the more drastically, the less likely people are to maintain
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: it over any length of time. Right, So, or we
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: might even say, you know, like have one flat white
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: or one latte a day or whatever it is, but
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: we go from a thousand calories to two hundred calories
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: of liquid.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: So that's eight hundred calories.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: You know, over thirty days is twenty four thousand calories
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: we're cutting out without eating any less food. Just that
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: one little hack or that one little protocol would absolutely
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: create real change, you know, Like it doesn't need to
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: be this overwhelming kind of massive global shift in your
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: operating system. It might just be like, oh, you know, well,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: let's say you have one or two wines a night,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: and you have three coffees a day, and you have
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: fruit juice in the morning, and then you have phil
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: cream milk on your cereal and.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: There's a thousand calories. Oh, there's more than a thousand calories.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: So so I like that approach though, because it's kind
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: of like taking baby steps. That approach, to me is
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: pretty ingenious, and it's a good way to kind of
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: get people to wade into the water of a healthy
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: lifestyle because you're allowing them to continue to eat as
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: they normally would, but you're strategically looking at the beverage factor,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: which is underappreciated and offmost people's radars. They don't realize
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: how many calories are in the sodas and some of
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: these you know, you know, these lattes and cappuccinos and
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: stuff or you know, or milkshakes or whatever. Get those
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: out of your life and maybe walk fifteen twenty minutes
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: a day. You'll see a pretty revolutionary change just with
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: those small modifications.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I think, I totally agree.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: One of the things I think that a lot of
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I can only talk from my industry or the industry
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that I came from, which is the fitness industry, is
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: because a lot of people who work in the fitness
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: industry are of course fit, strong, healthy, functional, and they
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: not all of them, but a lot of them have
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: a certain way of eating, and you know, by typical standards.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I put up a post yesterday on Instagram which is
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: essentially a reflection of I didn't intend to read this,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to bring it up right now, which
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: is not very and so one of the things that
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: I've been told a thousand times is but you've got
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: to have a life, right And so people are inferring,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and I understand it doesn't make I completely
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: understand why they say it, because when they look at
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: my life through their lens, I'm the most boring person
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: on the planet. I'm clearly malnourished, I clearly have no
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: fun I have no you know, And so I understand this.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: But one of the things that trainers do sometimes also
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: is they look at the client through their window and
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: their lens and they try to take the client from
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: this operating system at one end of the scale to
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: the other end of the scale in a week, and
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: it just never.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Works because you too much as you've just got to you.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Know what, this is a multi dimensional challenge. This is psychological, emotional, sociological, behavioral, physiological.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: You know, there are so many variables here. And what
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: you're trying to do is work with Sally or John
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that for twenty five years have kind of been in
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: this reality and now you're taking them over to Disneyland
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: and going you've got to live here.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't work like that.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So being able to I mean, this is something that
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: people roll their eyes at, but I remember I worked
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: with a guy who used to smoke. This is not
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: a lie over one hundred cigarettes a day. So basically
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: from when he woke up to when he went to
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: bed and he came to me and like, clearly so
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: many things to deal with. But and so our goal
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: in the first week, our goal was to smoke fifty
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: cigarettes a day. And people are like, how on earth
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: are you okay with that as a goal. I'm like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: that is a smart goal, you know why, because that's
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: half like me setting him a goal of zero or five.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: He's not going to do it. He's not going to
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you need to frame it in terms of like
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: a percentage. They say, I got this person to cut
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: back fifty percent. That way, they're not here in the
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: raw numbers, you know, but when you hear is that
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: someone cut their habit in half, that's really admirable, you know, yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: cut it in half again, and so on, and you
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: know it's a reasonable approach. I think you're right. You know,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: it's a really good point that you raise in that
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: there's no one stop shop for everybody when it comes
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: to changing their habits. You really do have to factor
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: in their holistic life. You know, what sort of experiences
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: have they had to have led them to their current behaviors,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: and you have to work through those channels and see
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: things through their eyes in order to design the most
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: ideal program that's going to be effective in modifying behavior.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, spirit of mind, doc, trying to understand someone else's
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: bog of right now? All right, I've got a few
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I've got a few Bill Sullivan questions for you. Firstly,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I read that I read that Adam Alter wrote basically
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: a testimony on your your book. So, doctor Bill's book,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: if you haven't heard of it, you should by now
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: please to meet me.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Jean's germs and the curious forces that make us who
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: we are.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: But I read Adam Alter's book Drunk Tank Pink, I
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: must have been ten years ago or eight or seven
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: A long time ago now, but what a great book.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Great book, and can you have you read it? Have
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: you read it?
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Like you It was about eight years ago or so
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: when it first came out.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I remember the story that he tells doc
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: of and maybe you can explain how this works.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Right. So one of the things that they there.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Was a a police station and they had these holding
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: cells basically for drunk people. And so it was in
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: this area I forget where it was, but really violent
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: people and they'd put all these blokes essentially men in
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: these holding cells overnight and there'd be punch ons and violence.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: It was one of the most violent.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: You know, kind of places in the States, or holding
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: cells in any way. They they found out that through
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: a range of different things, that if they painted the
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: holding cells pink, that it completely changed the behavior of
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the prisoners or the people being held, and it totally
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: affected their nervous system the way they communicated that the
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: violence almost went to zero. Like, what an amazing thing
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: to think that having like being basically in a pink
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: room versus a gray room is going to change behavior
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: that much.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: There's been a lot of stuff that have looked at
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: the behavioral effects of responding to different colors. You know,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: there's been some studies that show if a boxer has
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: on red trunks, he tends to be perceived as much
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: more aggressive than say a boxer who's wearing neutral or
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: white trunks.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: There's been also studies and pharmaceutical companies do this where
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: they you know, you know how pills get their colors.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: It's marketing. They give different colored pills to different people.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: And I forget some of the specifics, but like a
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: yellow pill works fantastically better as an antidepressive depressant than
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: an antidepressant that had no color or some kind of
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: neutral color. But if you make it yellow, it seems
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: to work even better. So it's like there's a placebo
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: effect accompanying some of these drugs just because of the
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: color of the pill. It's pretty remarkable. And people, if
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: you want them to be more urgent, more productive, you
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: put them in a red room as opposed to like
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: a green room, because red has a more of an
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: urgency about it, and people seem to work faster and
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: harder in a red room and in a green room
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: they're kind of more chill, but they can get more creative.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: So it's really interesting how those colors which we're not
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: even thinking about, right, it's not on our conscious radar,
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: but it is somehow affecting us at a subconscious level,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: and it's percolating up to change our behavior.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: It's amazing the amount of different stimulile variables that can
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: impact your psychological and or emotional system without you knowing
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: or without you being super conscious in the moment. Like,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I'm very affected by music, and the wrong music can
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: make me agitated, and the right music, when I say
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: right music for me can just literally make me happy.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Like well, as someone who in a is someone who
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: works in a gym, you have to know that music
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: can make a really big difference. If you're playing air
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: supply in the background, you're not going to have a
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: great workout.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Oh loud of love, God, how do you know is supply?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: How old are you?
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Well? How you from Australia?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good, dude. Well you just got to mention
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the beg's in excess and.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: There you know, but like you put on you put
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: on survivors ay the Tiger and it's a different story. Right,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: you're lifting twice as much as you used to be
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: able to do when you were hearing lost, lost in
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Love or whatever their whatever air supplies U songs.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: You're not helping You're not helping your brand by knowing
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: that I'm just going to say you that, I tell
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you that. Hey.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: So, one of the pieces of advice that I got
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: it's not going to surprise you growing up, was that
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: you need to control your emotions.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: My question is is that possible? Can we control our
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: emotions or do we just respond to them? Or do
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: our emotions control us? Or is there a better question?
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly a lot of variability, But let me
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: ask you, do you think you control your emotions better
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: than when you were two years old?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: But most people that'd say, yes, I know you, I do, Yes,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, then we can control our emotions. We certainly can.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: So we have that capacity. Is it easy? No, No,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: it's not. Emotions are primal. They surge within us beyond
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: our control. Okay. We can't control what emotions we feel,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: can't really control what sort of thoughts pop into our mind.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: But we can put a space in between those sensations
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: that we feel and what we're going to do about them. Okay.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: That's what makes us human is we can insert this space,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: this pause in between our emotions and our actions, and
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: we can take the time to evaluate the emotion and
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: produce the corresponding reaction that is appropriate to it. Okay.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: The classic example is that and we're by we're strongly
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: biased towards paying attention to our negative emotions. I think
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: everyone is pretty aware of that. But that's a survival mechanism.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Because if you're walking through the woods and you hear
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: rustling in the bushes, okay, your first instinct is probably like, oh,
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: this is an animal or a snake or something out
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: to get me, and you might you might run and
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: take off, but it could have just been the wind. Okay.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: So again, the beauty of being human is that we
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: hear these noises, these suspicious noises, we can evaluate that
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: emotion in the context of the situation and see if
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: it's a real threat or not. If it's a threat,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: we'll run. If it's not, we can deal with it
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: more rationally.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: So it's just like the old stoic philosophers used to say,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with emotions. It's natural to feel them.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed for feeling those emotions,
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: but you are responsible for the behavior that was inspired
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: by those emotions, and you have time, you have a
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: space that you can put in there to evaluate the
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: emotion and see what the appropriate response is going to be.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is a very personal question, but
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: do you think that you've gotten more courageous or more
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: fearful as you've gotten older, or or neither you kind
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: of status quo?
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: I think it probably depends a lot on the situation, right.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: You know, there are some things that I think I'm
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: probably much more braver about, and then there's other things
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: that I'm still very cautious about. So so yeah, it
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: really depends on the nature of the specific situation. I
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: would see.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: So I watched you on a video and you're on
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: You're on television, and you said, if you take intestinal
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: bacteria from a brave mouse and you put it in
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a shy mouse, then the shy mouse becomes braver and
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: less fearful.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I think something like one of it's one of my
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: favorite experiments. I mean what I mean, what what It's crazy,
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: isn't it?
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: And is that? I mean?
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I know, can we could we make a race of
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: super soldiers just by transplanting intestinal bacteria from great people.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: I would I would, I would guess no, because in
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: these studies, and you describe the study quite well, you know,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: mice have different personalities. Different strains of mice have different personalities.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: Some are more timid and some take greater risks. And
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: just as you said, if you take the intestinal bacteria
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: from the brave mouse and put it into the cowardly mouse,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: that cowardly mouse starts to become a little more brave.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: And we see these types of behavioral changes almost every
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: time we do these sorts of intestinal microbiota transplant experiments. Okay,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: here's one that has been done in humans, and this
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: one will blow your mind too. There are people who
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: have certain type of cancer and they're all treated with
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: the same type of chemotherapy. Some people respond to it,
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: some people don't. But if you take the bacteria from
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: the people who respond positively to the key chemotherapeutic treatment
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: put it into the patients that aren't responding to it,
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: those patients suddenly respond to the chemotherapy. Wow is crazy.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: So what this is telling us is there's something that
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: the trillions of different bacteria in our guts are producing
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: a metabolite of some kind, you know, basically a chemical
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day that is bestowing upon us,
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: you know, this magical property that we previously didn't have.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: And it can work in bad ways too. You know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: there's there's people who have undergone fecal transplantation to actually
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: treat a superinfection called sea diff. Okay, this is a
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: colitis infection that many people who are on prolonged antibiotics
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: suffer from, and this bacterial species called sea diff is
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: naturally resistant to most antibiotics. What has what can cure
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: ninety five percent of those cases is if you take
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: intestinal bacteria from a healthy person put it into that
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: person with the superinfection, superinfection has gone almost immediately. It's
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: crazy that it works so well. However, there is a catch.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: The donors of this bacteria need to be screened very
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: carefully because they can also transmit pathogens with these intestinal bacteria.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: And there's also a couple cases where allergies were transferred,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: and I think at least one case where depression was transferred. So,
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a marvelous concept and I think it's
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: going to be a really big piece of the future
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: medical pie, if you will. I think this is going
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to be a mainstream therapy, maybe forty fifty years down
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: the road, remodeling the microbiome, so to speak. But there
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: are some caveats that are pretty serious we need to
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: pay attention to if we're going to engage in this
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: sort of therapeutic. But yeah, it's pretty fat. You know.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Another thing that can make people take more risks is
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: that parasite that we've talked about before called toxoplasma GANDHII
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: that we study in my laboratory that has infected one.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: That's the one from cats. No, you get it. You
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: get it from cat feces, not the urine. You can.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: You can drink all the cat urine you want, but
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: it's the cat feces that that is dangerous.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: So you.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Just did our promo, Thanks for that.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, always happy to help. But yeah, the infected
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: cats can spread it through their stool, okay, But you
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: can also get it from raw under cooked meat, contaminated water,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: and there's multiple ways to get it. But the point
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to make is that when you do get this,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: you don't really get sick. But the parasite will live
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: in your brain for the rest of your life. And
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: there are some really compelling studies that correlate the presence
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: of that parasite in the brain to an increase in
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: risk taking activity. You know, you're more brave, you're more reckless.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: So there's some really interesting things that are beyond genetics,
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: because there's a genetic component to risk taking behavior as
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: well that factor into the equation as to whether someone
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: is timid or risk taking. But what in the world
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: those bacteria are doing in that original experiment you described,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: We have no idea at the moment, but it opens
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: the doors to some fascinating science.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just so much we still I mean, there's
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: so much we know now that we didn't, but there's
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: still so much that we don't like. And it's interesting
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: when we know what the out or what a potential
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: outcome of some intervention or some treatment or whatever is,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: but we don't know the mechanism and we know you
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: do this and this happens, but we don't know why.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: It's the That's the bit we need to get right,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: is the why.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: But that's the great starting point, and that's why I
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: love working in science because there is no end to
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: the list of interesting observations that people have made, but
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: each one opens up a whole new can of worms,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: a whole new you know, treasure trove of questions that
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: we can then go address. And that's what's so endlessly
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: fascinating about my job.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I know how many things have been discovered, you know.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Accidentally I was talking to on the show today. We're
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: recording this on the twenty third, which is Monday. I'm
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: just blanking. What's it called? What's that I'm blanking? What's
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: the erectile dysfunction drug called?
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Oh? Viagra?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, viagra? Sorry.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I was talking to Alex. Doctor Alex, who's a neurosurgeon,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: a friend of mine. He comes on the show. You
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: two would have a great We should both get you
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: on one day. But oh, he's great. He's great.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I love to pick the brain of a neuros scientists.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: I say, what you did there, We'll put a whip
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: cracking sound in there.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: But we were talking about how I mean that, like
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: biographer example, was developed as I think a blood treasure
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: pressure treatment or something similar, and it just had this
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: weird byproduct that pharmaceutical companies went, hey, look what we
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: did we just cured one of the greatest man problems
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: of old time?
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Or not?
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Really right? No, you're exactly right. It was a blood
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: pressure medication. That was what it was designed to do.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: But as they started putting it into clinical trials, men
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: started exhibiting this peculiar side effect of erections that would
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: just appear spontaneously and wouldn't go away. And they started
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: reporting these to the nurses that were taking care of them,
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: and that obviously got back to phiser people, and I'm
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: sure that people who were interested in high blood pressure
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: were really disappointed. So geniuses in marketing or whatever department
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: were like talk about, you know, taking lemons and making lemonade.
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: My god, they turned into a blockbuster drug. They invented this,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: this syndrome that didn't even have a name in order
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: to sell this pill that was going to go into
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: the trash can because it was not doing what it
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: was intended to do. Yeah. Wow, they ran away with
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: that side effect.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: It's quite a story.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And think about the potential, Like if it was efficient
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: as a blood pressure treatment, they might have made one X,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: but with Viagra that made a thousand X, so probably
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: a million X.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: You know, in terms of that.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, lemons to lemonade a couple of quick questions.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Have you got a little bit or have you got
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: to go?
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: No, I'm good, this is fun.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: So one of the.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Realities of living in Australia. Well, this is my version.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I've been here for a while now. Is that not all?
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: But and maybe it's changing a little bit, but a
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: lot of doctors hand out antibiotics like lollies.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Right, that's too bad.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: This is not a good.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not proud to say this, but I reckon I've
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: been on antibiotics at least twenty times in my life, right,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: which is not I know that's not a great thing.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: Well, that might not necessarily be a bad thing. Antibiotics
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: are not evil per se, and sometimes they're life saving,
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: but there is a tendency in Western civilization to over
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: prescribe them.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: So that's my point is just I don't I'm not
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: asking a specific question, but I'd love you just to
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: riff on antibiotics and give us like a bit of
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: your thoughts on antibiotics. And yes, of course they obviously
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: serve a very legitimate medical purpose.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: We know that, but in general, have a chat for
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: us about that, if you would.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I lecture on this to medical students every year.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: Antibiotics are some of the most precious drugs that have
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: ever been developed. In fact, the first, well the one
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: that most people ascribed to be the first, was penicillin,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: and it was literally called the miracle drug because it
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: was saving people from fatal infections that we never had
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: cure for before. These were truly miraculous treatments, and it's
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: even been suggested that the advent of penicillin helped the
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: Allies win World War Two. It was that important in
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: order to save soldiers on the battlefield and soldiers from
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: suffering from gangreen so they could get back on the
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: not gangreen, gonorrhea. Actually they were suffering from gonorrhea. They
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: wanted to clear that up so they can get them
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: back onto the battlefield. But anyway, these are precious, precious drugs.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: But as Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin, suggested during his
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Nobel Prize speech, if we're not careful with these drugs,
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: the bacteria are going to evolve resistance to them, and
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: boy was he right. Within five years of penicillin being
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: on the market, we started seeing widespread resistance to that antibiotic,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: and that's a very scary thing. So antibiotic research exploded
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: in the subsequent decades up until about the seventies, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: then it started to taper off. And as a consequence,
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: we had dozens and dozens of wonderful antibiotics that we
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: could give patients and in many cases they cured their
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: infection and in some cases it saved their lives. These
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: are literally life saving drugs. So what's the problem if
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: he over prescribed them. If we give them when they're
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: not needed, a couple bad things happen. First of all,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: we create environments where bacteria can evolve resistance. Okay, the
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: more often we use a drug, the higher the probability
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: that the germ is going to develop resistance. And if
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: it develops resistance to a series of antibiotics, we can
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: literally run out of drugs to treat that pathogen. There
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: will be nothing left in the medicine cabinet to get
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: rid of that infection. So this leads to what's called
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: the so called superbugs that are resistant to multiple antibiotics.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: That's a big problem. Right now. Sixty five thousand people
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: die in the United States each year from these superinfections
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: because doctors can only shrug their shoulders and say, we
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: have no antibiotics left that will treat this infection. It's
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: resistant to all of them, and unfortunately, pharmaceutical companies are
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: not investing in new antibiotic research right now. So that's
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: a whole other can of worms we can talk about later,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: but anti microbial resistance is one of the number one
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: things we want to be aware of when we give
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: antibiotics to people. The second problem relates to the microbiome
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: that we talked about before, so there's been some suggestive studies.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say that this is decided science,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: but if we give antibiotics to infants and young children
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: for prolonged periods of time, that disturbs their microbial environment
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: in their gut, and this can lead to negative health
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: consequences as they grow up. It's been linked to things
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: like allergy, social behavior problems, inflammation, and things like that.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: So giving antibiotics, especially at a young age, can be
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: life saving, but you want to make sure there are
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: as short term as possible and that you're not giving
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: them for a long time, just in case there are
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: some long term effects associated with damage that the microbiotic receive.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: This can happen in adults too. I already mentioned earlier.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: People who are on prolonged antibiotics are more susceptible to
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: see diff infections, and that's naturally resistant to antibiotics, and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: it takes some really drastic measures in order to treat
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: this horrible infection. So those are some of the main
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: reasons why we are a little more leery about giving
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: antibiotics out liberally. They're life saving medicines, but we want
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: to use them only when necessary. Antibiotics do nothing against
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: viral infections, for example, So if you go to your
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: doctor with your sneezing and sniffling and they don't know
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: if it's a virus or a bacterial infection, antibiotics should
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: not be given, Okay, it should. They should only be
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: given if there's a high probability that the illness is
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: in fact caused by a bacteria, Because if it's caused
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: by a virus, those antibiotics are not going to do anything.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Wow, and we're just putting something in our body that
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: that our body.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: Doesn't Yeah, you're taking it unnecessarily and what goes into
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: our body. Craig also goes into the sewer system, it
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: goes into the waste which gets out into the environment.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: So a scientists have sampled many places around the environment,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: at least in the United States, and antibiotics, the ones
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: that we make as human beings, are out there everywhere.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: And that's a really sad thing to see because if
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: the antibiotics are out there in the environment, then there
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: are germs out there that are resistant to those antibiotics,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: and then then when they start to infect animals and humans,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: we have a major problem on our hands.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Hey, one of the things that I've spoken about on
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: this show, not with you, but with another regular guest.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: We have who's an Australian author and researcher, David Gillespie,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: who's a gun. He's written a book, a bunch of books,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: but he's obsessed with sociopathy, right, with sociopaths. And I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: wanted to ask you and this.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: He should come over here and comment on our election.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Oh he's.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: He's a genius, but he talks about toxic box bosses
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: and a whole lot of stuff.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so if one end of that kind of spectrum,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: we've got.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Sociopaths, psychopaths and At the other end of that scale,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: we've got, you know, compassion, people who are predisposed to
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: being very kind, very compassionate.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Do you think that Do you think that there's a
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: genetic component to compassion and what we might broadly call
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: morality and all that kind of stuff. Is that how
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: moral someone is. Do you think that's more.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: About whatever morality means or ethics, or do you think
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: that's more about environment and upbringing or is there.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: A genetic component to that?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: Also, I don't think it's in either. Org there's clearly
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: genes that have been implicated in aggressive and violent behavior. Okay,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: this has been shown pretty convincingly in mouse models and
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: in some human families where aggression seems to be hereditary.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Think like the generations of psychopaths that are born in
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: certain family lineages that can be traced to genetic defects.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: But what those genetic defects really mean is that there
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: is a change in the brain structure or the brain
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: chemistry in these individuals that make them abnormal. Okay, but
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: there's many, many other reasons that people can snap and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: go psychopathic, which include any sort of damage to the
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: brain which can be brought upon by infection, trauma like concussions,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: old age can do it. You know, dementia can sometimes
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: make people violent. There's a whole host of things that
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: can happen to the brain that have nothing to do
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: with genetics, because the brain was perfectly fine before it
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: got injured in some way and then it produced psychopathic behavior. So,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: and that's not to say that the environment is not
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: important at all, Craig. There's the phenomenon of epigenetics, and
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: it's been shown very clearly that children who are exposed
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: to adverse childhood experiences or aces as they're known in psychology,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: have a propensity not always, but they have a propensity
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: grow up with behavioral problems, you know, antisocial behaviors, sometimes
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: violent and aggression. And this has been linked to epigenetic
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: changes that happen because of the environment they grew up in.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: These adverse childhood experiences can modify the gene activity of
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: the genes that are responsible for managing stress, and they,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: as a consequence, have lifelong problems managing stressful situations, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: this can lead to anxiety and even violence later on
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: in life. Yeah, I go again, many different variables in
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: the equation.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it just seems like I meete a
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: lot of people who it's like I meant. The reason
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I asked that was I was talking to a mum
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: and her daughter the other day, and they're both like
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: the nicest people, like just genuinely loving, kind, compassionate.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: They do all this work and they just don't want anything.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, if I wonder if the daughters like
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: the mum because she grew up in that kind of energy,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: in that environment and that mindset, or there's a genetic
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: component to that.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: But you know, we should do we will take the
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: We should take the intestinal bacteria of hippies and put
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: it into a violent criminal and see if that doesn't
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: change their behavior.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Well, if any of you hippies who listened to this,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: and any of you violent also listened to this, want
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: to be involved in doctor Bill's study, so I want
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: to read you something. The symptoms of the proposed type
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: three diabetes condition may include symptoms of dementia, such as
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: seen in early Alzheimer's disease. According to the Alzheimer's Disease Association,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: these symptoms include memory lost, blah blah blah. So this
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: this this term type three diabetes.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of that. Is that a thing or
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: is that just is that just bullshit?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: To be honest, I've never heard it before. It could
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: be a thing. I'm only familiar with Tape one and two.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, And I don't know that it's Yeah,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: there's just that they're talking about. I heard somebody the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: other day, and I.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Don't think this is solid science, but they were talking
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: about how essentially dementia is.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: An expression of or a consequence of type three diabetes. Anyway,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I'll do some more research, maybe you'll have a reason.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: We might talk about it next time. My last question
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: for you is this, are some people more genetically inclined
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: to enjoy exercise. I've spoken a lot of people over
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: the years who go, it's just not my thing. I
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: just don't enjoy it. I hate it.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if that's again, if that's truly just
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: who they are genetically, that's just that's just part of them,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: or if that's just because I grew up in a
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: family where that wasn't encouraged or supported.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: I think it's completely possible that there could be a
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: genetic component to someone's inclination to exercise or not. But
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: I think what's more likely is there's probably a genetic
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: component into the type of exercise that someone might want
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: to enjoy. I mean, there's the best study that I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: can think of within this realm would be like the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: genes that govern fast twitching of muscles, and it governs
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: the recovery time of muscles. And basically, if you have
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: one variation of this gene, you're really good at distance
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: or marathon or endurance type sports, but you're really crappy
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: at those that require a real sudden burst of energy.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: The other genetic variants the opposite. The other variant says
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: you're really good at short bursts of activity, You're a
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: great sprinter. You know, you have better abilities with returned
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: in terms of strength. That genetic variation is one of
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: the clearest cut that I've seen, But that really doesn't
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: get to the heart of motivating people to exercise. And
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: I think what is happening there is that some people
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: might want to fall back on genetics as an excuse,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: and that's the last thing we want anyone to do.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: People need to keep in mind is that exercise can
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: be fun. I mean, it can be If you enjoy running,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: get out there and run or walk. If not, try swimming.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: If not, try playing basketball or football. You know there's
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: something out there that you're going to enjoy that will
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: give you the exercise that you need. And I know
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: very few people who just can't go walk around the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: block a few times, and you can do lots of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: things while you do that. You can listen to the
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: U Project podcast during this walk, and what better way
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: to exercise and entertain yourself at the same time. And
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: if you're not a fan, and that's the new promo,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: but if you're not a fan of Craig Harper, first
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: why uh? And then second, turn on a different podcast,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: or listen to a book or some music, whatever, float
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: your boat, do whatever it takes. Find a regiment that
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: works for you that's going to allow you to get
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: in the exercise you need. It's really important underdersent.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: We'll finish with this as we as the world is
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: watching on it. The fucking shit show that is the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: upcoming election.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts. Who's gonna win?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Who's going to wing our election? Yeah? I think it's
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: our election forty less than forty five days away?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: What is it November five or is that it?
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So it's coming up in early November, and all
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: of this will be said and done, you know, a
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: day or two after that, so we'll see what happens.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Who's going to win.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: Really, it's a really interesting cycle. Oh that kind of prediction.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: I'm really hoping for Harris to tell you the truth.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: If it is Trump, I fear not just for the
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: States but for the world.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, it's it's it's it's entertaining and terrifying to
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: look on from afar, but anyway, it's probably more terrifying
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: to be in the middle of it over there.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Well, what surprises me is that roughly half this country
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: is perfectly fine with a convicted felon running for office.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: That's just unfathomable to me. I just can't get over that.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like that's almost like he's superpower. Is
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: that he doesn't.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: He's teflon man, He's teflon everything. Everything bounces off of it.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: It just slides off. People just create excuses for this guy.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: He can't formulate a complete sentence, and then people are saying, well,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: that's part of his genius, Like, no, that's that's dementia
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: talking dude.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Wow, it's just crazy.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: The twisted knots that people are putting themselves in so
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: they can make excuses for this guy. It's unbelievable to me.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Conformation biased doc work like we just we live in
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: the echo chamber. Don't let the facts get in the way.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bill Sullivan is the author, pleased to meet me, jeans, germs,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: and the curious forces that make us who we are.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: Do you want to point our audience in any other direction?
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Doc?
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: Is there anything else? If people want to learn more
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: about the book, or follow up on some of the
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: writings that I've done, or other appearances on the You
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Project and other podcasts, they can go to my website,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: Author Bill Sullivan dot com. There's also a mailing list
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: option you can sign up for if you want to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: sign up for that.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's time for a new book, bro, I
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: think it's five years. I think you're getting a little tardier.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: I think you better just get a hurry along.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: I'm still getting some good mileage out of this one,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: so I don't want to equipse that. Okay, but hey,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: you know, tell the major publishers to come knock on
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: my door and we'll see what we can do.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: A com believe they're not knocking, all right.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: I got ideas, man, I got ideas.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Of course you do, all right mate.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you, love having you on the show, and yeah,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: I value your contribution greatly.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much again.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: Hey, always a pleasure to look forward to next time.