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Joe Walsh - Leaving The Republican Party · World Ablaze with George Fontes

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Welcome world of blaze listeners and I have special guest Joe Walsh, former congressman.
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As you've said, from tea party to Democrat party, I'm glad you're here by the way, because
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I think you're the person to talk to given the state of America right now and what's been
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happening and given your experience.
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I've heard you plenty of times.
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I've heard your own podcast, you know, talking about renewing our social contract.
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I've heard you as a guest on other people's podcasts.
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I've heard you on Piers Morgan.
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And I got to say that on your own show, you're extremely fiery, but you're also very respectful
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when you're a guest on other people's shows, which says a lot about your maturity, by the
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way, as a person and being able to talk about things that even you don't agree with, which
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is awesome.
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So Joe, let me start here.
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And I know you're probably tired of saying this, but let's get a little background real
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quick because you've explained it many times, but my audience may not have heard it.
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why? Why did you go to the Democrat side? What was your journey that led you there?
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And with that being said, given your experience and why you went to the Democrat party,
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also give me a little bit of insight in how you're seeing America today.
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Yeah. And George, by the way, great to be with you, my friend.
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I appreciate your time.
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look uh i could be wrong i could be an idiot i could be way off base i think my former political
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party is an authoritarian embracing cult i believe it's a real fucking threat to this country we all
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love so when trump won last november and i'd been an independent for five years i left the republican
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Party after my crazy Republican primary challenge to Trump. But after Trump won in November, last
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November, I realized that I got to try to do more to defeat my former political party.
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I may not be a Democrat on most of the policy issues, but the Democratic Party needs to get
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their fucking act together. And so I thought if I could jump in and be part of the party
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and help them get their act together.
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Like I didn't want to,
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I spend a lot of my time going on CNN and MSNBC
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and yelling about Trump.
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And I write about Trump.
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I don't want to fucking do the next four years doing that.
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I don't want to be a commentator.
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I want to be in the political fight.
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We've got two parties.
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That party right there, my new party,
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is the only thing that can beat my former party.
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So I thought if I could get in
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and help that party become a bigger tent,
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because I'm no hardcore progressive, as you know, and help that party learn how to fucking fight
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and maybe help others like me become Democrats now, then we could better help defeat Trump
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and what my former party is. That's principally why I did it. Otherwise, I just would have stayed
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a homeless independent. I think you represent a lot of people, even people that consider themselves
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still conservative, don't necessarily feel fully aligned with the Republican Party.
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I myself am kind of shifting that way.
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I mean, I'm a conservative, by the way, but at the same time, not sure where we're going.
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Can I ask you this?
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Have you seen the Republican Party in general on this path before Trump, or did it all start
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with Trump as president in 2016?
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No, that's a great question, George.
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And I've said repeatedly, you know what I think about Trump.
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Trump didn't start this. The countries at each other's throats were dangerously divided.
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Our fucking politics sucks. Our political system is broken. I was saying that when I was in Congress
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12 years ago, way before Trump. So Trump's a response to that. I mean, if you think about it,
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only a really broken political system could elect somebody as horrible as that.
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So, I mean, he's made everything worse and he's made us more divisive.
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He's increasing the divide and the hate and all of that.
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But no, he's the ugly product of a broken political system.
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When I was part of the Tea Party many moons ago, I could see that MAGA, the Tea Party became MAGA, and that's when I got off the train.
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But I could see those threads there. And when the Tea Party, when we didn't deliver, then those folks got pissed off and they turned to Trump and he tapped into that anger. But yeah, I could see it brewing for a while. I wish I'd done more to address it early.
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I think you're right about Trump.
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Like when he came on the scene,
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I believe it was already headed that way.
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And what made him popular is
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he was kind of saying what people were thinking.
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But, you know, here we are now
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and people are starting to question his solutions.
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I like some of the stuff he's done.
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I'm not on board with everything though.
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I mean, you know, I do think.
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So it's like he represents
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a certain part of America right now
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and how they feel.
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But even people who voted him in
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are starting to say,
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okay, where's this train going? Like what is happening? Can I ask you this, Joe, from your
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experience, what do you think was broken? Like I want, can you define that or is it too complex
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to really put your thumb on? No, no, George, that's a good question, man. And understand,
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like, I don't know anybody, maybe you do. I don't know anybody who's taken the same road I took.
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like I come from the Tea Party and now I'm a Democrat. I come from the MAGA base.
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You know, most of the never Trumpers who you and I know, they were rhinos. They were moderate,
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squishy Republicans to begin with. I used to fight those guys. I'm like the only never
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Trumper who literally comes from the MAGA base. So I understood why my voters, my supporters,
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my audience, embrace that guy because he was an outsider and he promised disruption.
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Fuck, I wanted disruption. When I went to D.C. as part of the Tea Party wave,
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I was a disruptor. I think both political parties suck. I've been saying this for a long time. I
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wish we had three parties, four parties, five parties. I think the way we vote is fucked up.
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gerrymandering sucks. We've got elites, elites in the media and elites in the political
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establishment who've forgotten about regular people. All of that that Trump tapped into
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was the shit I was talking about before Trump. And so I saw the need for Trump. I voted for Trump
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in 2016. I didn't pay enough attention to him. I really didn't. I didn't take him seriously.
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But I voted for him because my people voted for him.
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And I knew why they voted for him.
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Because they wanted somebody to blow it up, tear it down, drain the swamp, all of that.
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Our politics was no longer meeting the needs of regular folk.
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Now, disruption, George, I think is good.
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You probably think it's good.
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I think, you know, business needs disruption.
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Politics needs disruption regularly.
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So I'm a disruptor.
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But there are good disruptors and bad disruptors.
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It turns out Trump's an evil disruptor.
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Like I get, I know why people support him.
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But you got a guy who lies every fucking time he opens his mouth.
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And I could go on and on and on.
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So eventually he's just a bad disruptor, but they clung to him.
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Do you disagree with everything that Trump has done though?
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I'm not trying to make that a loaded question, but just, you know, what do you think?
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No, you know what, George?
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That's a great question that nobody's asked me in a while.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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People would ask me that question, like, up until the 2020 election, and then they'd stop.
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Huh.
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Yeah, and I'm trying to think.
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I haven't thought about that in a while.
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Yeah, obviously, that's a really good question.
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When you look at policy, shit he's done, and I don't know where you are politically, I'm generally kind of a free market libertarian, keep the government out of my life kind of guy.
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That's what I am, which is why I was always a Republican because I always believed the Republicans generally stood for a more limited government.
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At least that was my philosophy.
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The Democrats obviously didn't.
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They liked a bigger government.
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I would argue now what this Republican Party has become, it's a big government party on the right.
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So now we've got a big government party on the left and a big government party on the right.
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But sure, there's shit Trump's done that I would support.
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I'm off the charts pro-Israel.
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I don't think Trump really gives a fuck about Israel, but he's acting more pro-Israel.
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Support that.
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anytime I can cut anybody's taxes, I support cutting taxes.
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Trump got rid of a bunch of regulations in his first term, all about that.
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Onerous government regs.
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So there is some stuff.
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Clearly for someone like me, though, it ain't about policy.
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Gotcha.
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So I'm going to steer this away from Trump here in a minute
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because I don't want to make him the focal point.
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I mean, everybody talks about him every day.
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But let me ask you this.
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I'm agreeing with you a lot on what you said in terms of some of the stuff, right?
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I think everybody can say that he made sense in some areas.
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There's some things that made a lot of sense, but where I think he's failing personally.
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And, you know, when I first started, a lot of everybody just pegged me for pro-MAGA all the time.
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Now, yes, I voted for Trump also, but I also have a right to question where things are going
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because, you know, at some point you got to call it in, right?
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His foreign policy.
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I don't know what you think, but in my mind,
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I don't think he knows what he's doing anymore.
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I mean, he has, okay, he hasn't taken a hard stand on anything.
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He flip-flops all the time.
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And I know we don't want any wars, but at the same time,
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we're not taking a position of strength militarily,
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even if it is just a threat.
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And so he says one thing, people just wait it out
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because they know he's not going to do anything,
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and they just go back to whatever the hell they want to do.
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What do you think the future is for America geopolitically right now,
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given his policy?
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Do you think he will probably turn it around as time goes on?
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Or does he just not give a fuck anymore because he knows this is his last term?
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Well, George, I will say that unlike you and I, and I don't know you and you don't know me,
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but I'm going to guess, George, that you've got a philosophical core,
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kind of like the shit you believe in.
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I do.
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Most of us do.
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Trump doesn't.
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I mean, let's just be real.
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Trump's just a vehicle.
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Trump doesn't care about anything but Trump.
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He's 100% transactional.
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So, George, he could have run in 2016 as a Democrat, as a populist disruptive Democrat.
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Right.
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There's no philosophical core to him.
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On foreign policy, I've always been kind of the opposite of a neocon.
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I don't want American troops everywhere.
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I don't want to be nation building and fighting wars.
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Trump-like has given lip service to that over the years.
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Um, again, I don't think he, he believes in it because as you said, he's all over the map.
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There's no consistency.
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Um, look, I, I want to get us out of NATO and you don't give a fuck about Europe, then
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forget about Ukraine.
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I mean, I, I, again, I don't want American troops on the ground, but Russia, Putin invades
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Ukraine.
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We're part of NATO.
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Damn it.
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We should do whatever we can to help Ukraine defend itself.
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Um, I tend to believe that Trump really likes Putin and that's why he's doing what he's
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doing there.
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But no, there's no core that drives him. The one stupid policy he seems to have always believed in
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is tariffs. Again, I think he's an idiot. I don't think he understands, but
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that he's going to stick stubbornly with his tariffs probably forever. Everything else though,
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He just given lip service and the people around him are very much and I know a lot of the people around him they very much hardcore nationalists Like they want to build a fucking wall around America and keep people out They want America to be a Christian country again And so Trump doesn care about any of that
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but he's letting them dictate a lot. George, last thing I'll say, I'm a free market,
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free trade Republican from way back when. Maybe the Republican Party was never that,
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But I don't think that Republican Party's ever coming back.
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I think it's the MAGA party, I'm older than you, for the rest of my life.
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So let's define that difference real quick between a fenced off America versus one that
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is not necessarily open border, but allows for actual immigration of people who are qualified
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to be immigrants into the United States.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Do you want to define that a bit?
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Yeah.
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And by the way, George, I love this issue.
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And this issue, if there's like one issue, especially last time in 24, that really got
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him elected, it would be the issue of immigration because Democrats have utterly fucked up the
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issue of immigration.
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So I guess one of the ways to kind of crystallize it is I'm a defend the fucking border.
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Nobody can come in this country illegally. Defend the fucking border. But damn it, make it easier
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for people to come here legally. It shouldn't cost so much money. It shouldn't take so much time.
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I'm George. I'm one of these guys who I want to open my arms up to legal immigration. Like
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I want America to be that shining city on the hill where white, black or brown fucking a you
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want to come to America for freedom and opportunity, we welcome you. Muslim, Jew, Christian, I don't
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care what you are. You want freedom? Come on. Yeah, but I think any rational person- Come here legally.
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Yeah, any rational person would agree with that, right? Stop. You would, George. Today's Republican
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Party wants to limit legal immigration as well. And it animates a lot of what Trump's doing,
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Get rid of these people on student visas.
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Deport all these people who are here claiming asylum.
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Americans will do these jobs.
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Today's Republican Party is anti-illegal and legal immigration, I think.
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Let's hope you're wrong.
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I mean, my perspective is I am like you.
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I agree in legal immigration.
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I agree they do need to make it easier.
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I have friends who've gone through the process that took them years.
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Like just the hoops they got to jump through.
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And I also believe though, America felt this way.
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And maybe it was just messaging a narrative that made America feel this way.
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As in, you know, we got too many people here taking our jobs,
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too many people taking our resources, et cetera.
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And so that's, I think that's what got us here.
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But I don't know if anyone, like if they really took a step back and thought about it,
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I'm not sure if that's really what they believe at their core.
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because at some point all of us has an immigrant relative from somewhere.
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Like my dad's half Portuguese.
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His family came here, you know, from overseas.
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Most people I know have.
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So I hope you're wrong.
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Let's just put it that way.
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No, George.
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And again, no wrong or right here.
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You could be close to the right.
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It's just my read of today's party is the animating legislation,
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Tom Cotton and others putting forward legislation to put real hard limits on legal immigration
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till all of America is employed and shit like that.
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Which is not realistic.
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That's baloney.
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Yeah, that's not realistic.
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Right?
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And here's the other thing I'd say, George.
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Like, I can't, I understand that Democrats suck on this issue.
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And so Trump then comes in and now he's doing this ugly, cruel, un-American shit when it
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comes to deporting people, right? Deporting day laborers and grandmothers. What pisses me off is
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politicians and the big business community created this broken immigration system.
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They're the ones who created this. Incentivized people to come here. Fuck them. We created this
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broken system and people come here taking advantage of the broken system for a better life
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and we're going to deport them?
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Like, politicians haven't had the guts
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to really address this issue for years.
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Yeah, you're right.
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We did create our own.
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We did actually create this situation.
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Yeah, and it's not fair to penalize these people.
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No, it isn't.
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So let's move on to America right now.
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Okay?
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You said it.
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We're at each other's throats.
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We're fighting for no reason.
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We're looking at our neighbors and starting to question.
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whether or not we should
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be friends or enemies.
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I'm really concerned with all the rhetoric
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about trying to push us towards a civil war.
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You see the memes. You see all the bullshit out there.
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I think we're going to
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hopefully be smart enough to never get there.
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But the idea of you
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looking at your neighbor and wondering whether or not
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you should shoot him in the head because he's on the other side
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is just a bunch of bullshit.
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But that's the messaging being pushed.
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How do we get past that in your mind?
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Because the idea of having discussions
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like you and I are having
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okay and i'll be up front we may not agree on everything but i'm not going to be disrespectful
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i'm going to hear you out because i want to know where you come from and then maybe i walk away
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with this going well you know joe said some stuff that i need to think about that's what we need to
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be doing but how do we get past you know filtering through the narratives the messaging the social
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media all the bullshit that's that's keeping people trapped into this like bubble of thought
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process to where we need to be enemies and be so hard right and left because i mean fuck joe we live
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in the gray most of the time let's just be honest it's not always black and white so what in your
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mind can we do to move past this? And George, that will be the most important thing you'll ask
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me in our conversation because you know what I think about Trump and what I think about,
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I don't care who the president is. If most Americans stay on this road where we hate the
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person we disagree with, then democracy, this thing's done, period. I actually think we're at
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a point where we as a people have to decide, as Marjorie Taylor Greene said a few weeks ago,
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do we want to stay together or do you want to have a nice, peaceful divorce?
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I, George, 12 years ago would hold town halls when I was in Congress.
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And I would say then, before Trump, I don't know.
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Our founders gave us a great thing, but you know what?
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Our founders also thought every few generations, you may have to shed some blood if you want
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to keep this thing together.
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So I don't know if this thing can stay together.
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What's it going to take?
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Marriage counseling one last time.
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Therapy one fucking last time.
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And I got a great perspective because I used to be a dick.
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I used to be the proverbial political asshole.
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Seven or eight years ago, well, you and I might have agreed on a lot.
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But if you and I disagreed, I'd have been an absolute jerk in a conversation like this.
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I went to D.C. to go to war.
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anybody who disagreed with me get out of my fucking way i woke up i saw the light and i
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realized that wasn't helping so now i'm trying to help heal the divide but it comes to do what you
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and i are doing here most most americans don't do this you said it we all live in our bubbles
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we talk to people who think like us until we can get to a point where um you and i disagree but i
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don't want you dead. Right. I don't want you destroyed. Exactly. Then we're done. And right
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now we're at that point. Our politics incentivizes us to be there. Media and social media drive us
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there. But ultimately, it's on us, George, to turn it around. You know, it's ridiculous, Joe,
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if you think about this as human beings, just our experiences, how we live, brought up our
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environment, everything is always going to have an influence on us and how we see things. We're
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always going to have differences, but they shouldn't be to the point where we have to
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pick a side, like so hard right, hard left. To me, that's just ridiculous. It doesn't make any
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sense to me because now it's like people are now calling up on the rooftops, shouting down
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at the crowd saying, no, you have to pick a side. It's either us or them. And we're back to this us
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or them mentality, which is bullshit.
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Now, I'm going to ask you this, and if you don't want to talk about it, fine,
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because you've made a lot of comments about what happened regarding Charlie Kirk.
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I don't want to go too deep in the actual act.
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We all saw it, but what I want to get into is what I was surprised by.
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I thought that act, as horrendous as it was, would have brought America together,
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but it just really divided us more.
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What are your thoughts on that, Joe?
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Why did we separate and become more, I mean, more nasty and more like enemies than actual
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brothers and sisters and just saying, damn, that was wrong.
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I don't know how we got here.
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We need to get our shit together.
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What do you think of the situation after that event?
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So I 100% blame Trump and the right for this.
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Okay.
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By far.
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And then let me say and then fire back at me. Sure. I knew Charlie Kirkwell. He was like a political son to me. We were tied at the hip for years. Then we went our separate ways when Trump came along. But just horrible, horrible.
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But think about that for just a sec, George. This major MAGA influencer is assassinated in cold blood because of what he believed. It was a political act of violence.
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Yes. Any president of the United States would have gone on TV that night and looked at the fucking TV camera and said, country, chill, a timeout for everybody.
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Political violence is wrong, whether it's coming from the left or the right.
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Stand down. We got to quit hating on each other.
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We got to come together.
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Ba-ba-ba, unify, bring us together.
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George, any president, George W. Bush, Obama, you name it, Reagan, Jimmy Carter would have
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done that.
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Trump goes in front of the camera and he picks a side.
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He went in front of the camera that night on TV and he attacked the left.
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By the way, before we knew anything about the shooter, but he didn't, he came out and
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he did what he always does. I'm the president, he said, of this half of the country. Again, he's a
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despicable human being. The second thing, George, is, and maybe you disagree with me here.
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Most of my former friends and colleagues on the right, I believe they want a religious holy war.
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and the minute Charlie was assassinated, they right away said, they did it. They did it. War
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on the left. War on the left. Time for a holy war. We're good. They're evil. Right away,
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they went down that road instead of some 22-year-old guy did this. And I think
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I've had enough conversations with them over the years. They want this good versus evil kind of
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battle. The right does. I don't disagree with you on how Trump addressed the situation at all.
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You know, as a president, that was the opportunity to keep people together and keep the country on
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track. As far as everything else you said, I'm not saying you're wrong either. You know,
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everything's a matter of perspective. I think a lot of people felt and automatically blamed
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the shooter for being ultra left, far left, whatever, because up to that point, we were
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already being separated and told to hate each other.
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And so when that happened, automatically, it's my team versus your team.
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Hey, you took a shot at us.
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You killed our guy.
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It's you.
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You're to blame.
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What reality is, and I'm probably wrong, what I see is we both fed this fire on both sides.
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And it'd be only because it became a tit for tat type of game that everyone's playing. Everybody
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wants to win points. They can stay in power and control, which is bullshit. And the big problem
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there is like you said earlier is literally the two party system we have. Like we don't have
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enough representation and people are forced to be checked into a certain box. They're being,
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they being forced to take a side and position based on the only two damn options they have which is creating the situation we in So unfortunately sure Some of the things they said about the shirt shooter came
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out to be true, but correctly, what you said is they should have just identified it as, Hey, this
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guy, some identified male, 22 year old, whatever committed this heinous act. We shouldn't, we
26:20
shouldn't have read into anything until we had all the details. So yeah, you know, there was bias
26:25
there. And yes, they kind of led the crowd to believe what they wanted to believe, regardless
26:28
of whatever happened later. But we also got to all admit that we both, both sides is what I'm
26:34
saying. We both got us to this point, unfortunately. Yeah, no, I look, this is a both sides problem.
26:41
Now, the data is really clear on this. Over the course of the last 30 years, political violence
26:48
in this country by every group that's ever studied it is mostly a right-wing problem.
26:56
The data is overwhelming.
26:58
This year we're in 2025 by most data.
27:01
Most is the first year in 30 years where left-wing violence exceeds right-wing violence.
27:09
But like when Charlie was assassinated, there were idiots on the left who celebrated it.
27:18
But, but, but I was surprised, George. Damn near every Democrat said the right thing.
27:28
And I found then the people on the right using his assassination as a call for war against the left.
27:41
I found that to be way scarier than a bunch of nuts celebrating it.
27:46
yeah I don't know if it was a call for war
27:49
but what I will say is this
27:51
I didn't appreciate
27:53
Charlie's memorial
27:55
being turned into a 10 hour
27:58
rally which is what it really was
27:59
I mean they didn't celebrate
28:02
him as much as you would think
28:03
it was really a Christian concert
28:05
a Christian sermon
28:07
and then it turned into a WWE event
28:10
and I've said
28:11
this with other people who are conservative
28:13
and even other people who are conservative
28:15
or Republican agree with me?
28:17
Because, you know, I look at Erica, his wife,
28:20
and I'm thinking, I don't believe this is what she wanted.
28:23
I think she was pressured into that event,
28:25
the way it came out, personally.
28:27
I don't know her.
28:28
But the way it looks from the outside,
28:30
you know, from the outside looking in,
28:32
it was very strange that they would take this
28:34
as an opportunity to turn it into a rally
28:37
when it really should have just been a celebration
28:39
and a remembrance.
28:40
Agreed.
28:41
Spot on, George.
28:42
And again, you may disagree with me.
28:44
I agree with what you just said.
28:45
But I think the reason for that was this has been a real catalyst in the right Christian nationalist movement.
28:56
Explain that for me.
28:57
This has really let them on fire, and they've used this horrible act to advance kind of their cause.
29:05
that, I mean, look at the reaction to the initial reaction right out of the gate to the guy who
29:12
drove the truck into that Mormon church in Michigan started firing. Right away, the right
29:17
said another attack on Christianity. Turns out the guy's probably a Trump supporter who had a thing.
29:23
He was pissed, didn't like Mormonism. But again, it's reflexively, this is a war against Christianity.
29:31
We got to stop that.
29:33
I don't know if the guy was a Trump supporter in terms of the attack on the Mormon church,
29:37
but what I can say is you're right.
29:40
You know, we do jump to conclusions way too quickly.
29:44
And we all do it.
29:45
Yeah, we really do.
29:46
When there's a mass shooting, half the country prays it's a Muslim, half the country prays
29:51
it's a white supremacist.
29:53
Damn near everybody does it.
29:55
Yeah, I don't disagree with you.
29:56
um so as far as as far as that goes though it's like explain to me more what this is about
30:03
everybody saying it's all about christian nationalism i mean we've heard this before
30:09
but it's really been ramping up is this is there truth is there really teeth behind this
30:13
or i i mean what what's your thoughts on that like why why is this being called christian
30:19
nationalism because i i don't i don't know if it really represents everybody and again sometimes
30:24
people just get on the bandwagon because they believe that's where their group is going,
30:29
right?
30:30
Yeah.
30:31
So can you help me define or understand that more?
30:33
Because I'm trying to understand why everybody is labeling this all as Christian nationalism.
30:38
It's the belief that instead of a secular country like what we have now, where religion
30:47
and the state are separate and you're free to exercise your religion and be whatever it
30:54
there's a movement called Christian nationalism that wants America to be officially designated
31:01
a Christian nation, not indifferent than many of the Islamist nations that are out there in the
31:09
Middle East. It's anathema to what America is, right? Most any reasonable person could and should
31:16
say that. I would argue that this is a really powerful animating force within MAGA, and I would
31:25
argue that MAGA is the major animating force in the Republican Party. The vast majority of the
31:34
Christian evangelical movement is either Christian nationalist or adjacent. I'm Christian, born and
31:41
raised Roman Catholic. I don't want America to be a fucking Christian nation, Muslim nation,
31:46
anything. I want it to be a free nation. But Charlie Kirk was a Christian nationalist.
31:55
Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, has publicly spoken to this. Whereas when I was
32:02
in Congress, a number of my Republican colleagues would privately talk about this,
32:06
never dare say it publicly, they've gained in strength and courage over the years. So now they
32:14
openly talk about it. They want to go back to when America was mostly a white Christian nation,
32:19
blah, blah, blah. To me, it's scary. It's because it's antithetical to what America should be.
32:25
But I think it's a really powerful force in today's Republican Party. J.D. Vance subscribes to this.
32:32
hmm well the reason i ask you that uh is because in my conversations with people that i know and
32:39
other guests most people who are even conservative don't see it that way or don't believe that for
32:46
example i'm not saying it's not there that's why i asked you to define it because i i personally
32:51
i don't see it but maybe i'm just blind maybe or i'm not looking for it i have no idea and when it
32:57
came to charlie i'll be honest i respected him i watched some of his videos and his debates but i
33:01
wasn't like a diehard. I watched everything he did. So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop in terms
33:06
of where all of this started and why it's now a Christian nationalist movement. I've always heard
33:12
it. Believe me, I've always heard it was there, but it's ramping up, right? And the rhetoric is
33:17
there. But the people I know, the people I talk to do not subscribe to this needing to be a mostly
33:24
white Christian nation. I know that people think that we need to return to family values and some
33:30
of those principles or most of them are based on Christian values. So that I've heard. And we also
33:37
got to look at the fact that people are feeling marginalized, like the other way now. A lot of
33:42
white people are feeling that way because they feel that they're being attacked. They're the
33:47
ones who are told that they should be guilty about existing for being white. I'm just throwing the
33:52
other argument out there, Joe, and I'm not saying that's what I believe, but I'm just, this is the
33:56
way people are feeling, and this is what I've been told. But George, I think on pure numbers-wise,
34:01
you're right. Maybe. I don't know. No, in all the data I've looked at,
34:07
Christian nationalists are maybe 20 to 25 percent of the Republican Party vote.
34:15
It's the bulk of the evangelical vote. The evangelical vote is the heart of the base,
34:22
but it's not the entire evangelical vote. I think they're gaining in strength.
34:29
And I think it's something to really be concerned about. You know, I said earlier that I was Tea
34:35
Party. I'm still Tea Party. Tea Party became MAGA. I left. What's the difference? Like I'm Tea Party
34:43
because I believe in freedom. And yeah, I don't like the left. And I don't like the left using
34:49
government to kind of give us their version of America. But my answer to that is just limit
34:56
government, downsize government. MAGA is all about using government to give us their America.
35:05
So MAGA is a very pro-government, expansive government kind of thing because they've got
35:12
their view on what America should be and look like. I oppose both of those visions. Keep government
35:18
out of my life. Agreed. So I know I don't have you for a lot longer here, so I want to touch on this.
35:26
Since you've come over to the Democrat Party, and I know that you guys have differences between you
35:32
and the Democrat Party in terms of your core beliefs, I've heard some of your other interviews,
35:36
and I can see where there's not, I wouldn't say tension, but they can say, well, I don't quite
35:41
agree with you, but they want to hear you out at least, which is good. You're getting them to talk
35:45
as well. Regardless of however you want to characterize yourself or label yourself in
35:50
terms of party, they're open to listening to you because you came from the other side.
35:55
Yeah.
35:55
You got a lot of experience. I mean, hell, we can't not deny who you are. So how is that going
36:01
in terms of acceptance, in terms of when you have to have those tough conversations
36:05
about your core principal beliefs and what they believe? Can you give us a little background
36:11
insight into what you were experiencing with that?
36:12
George, it hadn't been easy. It's been about three and a half months. I can generally say that
36:22
the Democratic grassroots has embraced me. And they've generally said, Joe, you were that crazy
36:30
Tea Party guy, disagree with you on guns and Israel, whatever. But man, this is all about
36:36
defending democracy. We're all in this together. The Democratic Party establishment has been much
36:42
more standoffish. Look, I think the party is struggling to figure out what to do because,
36:51
and again, maybe you disagree with me. I think Donald Trump's one of the worst human beings that
36:56
ever lived, but the Democrats lost to him. So if that doesn't tell you that Democrats have real
37:02
fucking issues, so they're trying to figure out, George, in my conversations with them,
37:07
do we go further harder left and energize the left or do we follow Joe Walsh and let's have a
37:14
big tent party and give me some people in the middle moderate and conservative Dems they don't
37:19
know which way to go so uh they're feeling me out like a lot of people be switch parties to run for
37:28
office right people ask me all the time are you gonna run my answer is I I'd love to run again
37:33
But I didn't become a Democrat to run.
37:36
Like, I don't think I could win a Democratic primary right now.
37:40
I'm not lefty enough.
37:42
Right.
37:42
So it's been a real mixed bag.
37:46
No regrets, though.
37:48
What you said earlier, though, about them trying to figure it out, maybe lean harder left.
37:51
I mean, how much further do they want to go?
37:53
I mean, that's what lost them their position in the first place.
37:56
That's what got them here.
37:57
You know what they say, George?
37:58
What's that?
37:59
You know what they say?
37:59
Because that's generally, I agree with you.
38:01
That's my thought.
38:02
What do you mean further left?
38:03
and the answer they give me is,
38:06
Joe, fucking A.
38:08
Look what the Republican Party did.
38:10
They went with Trump,
38:11
and they went as far right as you can go,
38:13
and they're winning.
38:16
Kind of.
38:17
I think that's an exception, though.
38:19
Yeah, Trump's not really a real Republican, though.
38:22
He really is.
38:23
He never claimed to be.
38:25
He was an opportunist, I believe,
38:28
and he was able to step in
38:30
where people, like you said,
38:32
were looking for a disruptor
38:32
and looking for change.
38:33
I think what you're trying to do from what I'm hearing and what I've heard you speak of,
38:38
by the way, on other shows is I think you're just trying to help the Democrats become a common sense
38:43
party. Thank you. Like that's what I'm hearing. And let's be honest, you know, a lot of people
38:49
from my, like I'm a Gen Xer right on the tail end, I guess, but a lot of people from my generation,
38:53
we were more liberal back in the day and they became a totally different party And everybody else I know that of my generation has pretty much shifted conservative But even now we like we conservative but I mean we not necessarily on board with where it going right now at least the Republican Party
39:12
Oh my God, George, you're so fucking spot on.
39:15
I wrote an article three years ago calling for a new political party, and I called it the common sense, tolerant, get shit done party.
39:26
like pick an issue, any issue, a transgenderism. Okay. My party on transgenderism. What should it
39:35
be? My God, I be free, identify however you want to identify, baby. It's your life,
39:41
your call, your decision. We shouldn't discriminate against you, gay, straight,
39:47
transgender. When it comes to transgender men and women's sports, timeout, competition's got to be
39:53
fair, right? When it comes to transgender men in women's bathrooms, respect the privacy rights of
40:00
both sides, but generally embrace transgender Americans, live your life, and let's not
40:06
discriminate against you. To me, that's the common sense platform for transgender Americans.
40:13
And I could go down issue by issue. Neither party is there, by the way.
40:18
I think I'm not going to get too deep in the transgender thing, but everyone I know,
40:22
at least that I know agrees with that. Like we don't care. I don't care.
40:28
You know, the only thing that we've ever said, me and people I know, I say we,
40:33
but I'm just specifically my people is we don't believe it should be, um,
40:38
force taught or exposed to children that are like first grade. Second.
40:42
I think you got to let the mind develop first.
40:45
They're not in a position yet to make those types of decisions. You don't,
40:48
you know, they're very malleable. They're very,
40:49
their minds are easily shaped, right, and influenced.
40:53
Look, if you're going through high school or whatever,
40:56
you kind of already know where you're going to go in life and what you are.
40:59
When you become an adult, nobody, I do not care.
41:01
Do what you got to do.
41:02
I just don't agree with it being pushed on children
41:05
who don't even know themselves what toy they want to play with.
41:09
Agreed, George.
41:10
That's it.
41:10
That would be part of the common sense agenda on transgenderism.
41:15
And again, I cede a lot to parental rights.
41:18
if I were a parent and I had a first grader, a little first grade boy who thought he was a girl.
41:26
I mean, I think I know how I'd feel as a dad, but it's up to that mom and dad to handle their
41:31
first grade boy how they want, whatever. But I certainly don't want schools and other people
41:35
forcing shit down. That's a good point. We did get away from letting parents be parents, right?
41:41
Yeah. I don't even know when that started. At least I don't remember anyway.
41:46
what do you think about
41:49
the states lately
41:50
and California has been bad on this
41:53
by the way this is where I live
41:53
trying to step in and get between
41:57
the family
41:59
unit the parents and
42:01
the child and now the schools speak for the
42:03
parent and then the state steps in
42:04
and starts to say no no no
42:07
you can't do it that way because the state
42:09
supersedes your right to parent your
42:11
child I know I may be sounding extreme
42:13
but I'm just trying to throw some examples out there
42:15
I'm with you, brother. This is where I've always been, right there with you. And this has always typically been the province of the left interfering with parental rights. I'm a big school choice person. I think a parent should decide where their kid goes to school and the taxpayer money should follow it.
42:34
But what's weird now is we've got the MAGA right trying to do the same thing.
42:47
Supersede that you can't, parents can't turn their kids into transgenders in first, second, or third grade.
42:55
Stay out of it.
42:56
No matter what the issue is, stay out of it.
42:59
Keep the schools out of it.
43:01
Um, there, I, I don't hear people except in the middle arguing that position like MAGA
43:10
thinks of transgenderism.
43:12
A bunch of the biggest MAGA media voices believe that it should be eliminated from the public
43:19
square.
43:20
There should be, it shouldn't exist or it's a mental illness.
43:24
I don't think that's where most Americans are.
43:26
Well, here's the thing about this transgenderism.
43:32
It's always been a minority of people who literally deep inside felt they were another sex, right?
43:38
What is appalling though, I'm going to say it, is we've never seen it lately like now as it used to be to where all of a sudden it almost seems like it's just a thing to do.
43:50
It's like a trend and people are making these decisions and they're regretting them later.
43:55
but I'm not taken away from the person
43:59
who truly knows inside who they really are, by the way.
44:03
I am very cautious about how it has been turned
44:06
into almost a weapon to divide people, unfortunately,
44:10
because how can we sit here
44:12
and not acknowledge the upward trend
44:16
of more and more people deciding all of a sudden
44:18
they're trans versus it used to be like,
44:22
I don't know, less than 3% of people
44:24
that would actually identify. You're right. And George, I guess what this speaks to is
44:31
Trump is an overreaction on almost any issue to how the left overreacted on every issue.
44:41
So the left took this issue and tended to shove it in our faces. Accept it. And it was everywhere.
44:48
and anybody can be it, accept it, accept it.
44:52
And middle America, a lot of us kind of recoiled against that.
44:56
What do you mean?
44:56
What do you mean?
44:57
We got 30 different genders?
44:58
What are you talking about?
44:59
It's a dangerous narrative.
45:00
Like the left shoved something down our throat
45:02
and a lot of that then helped elect Trump
45:05
who now is taking it in the other extreme
45:08
on almost any, every issue.
45:10
Exactly.
45:11
And it's a dangerous, I'm not saying,
45:13
I'm not saying trans is dangerous.
45:15
What I'm saying is the idea of pushing a narrative
45:17
of the way they are is dangerous because that could be applied to anything, right?
45:22
And how they're trying to shove it down everyone's throats.
45:25
And it's like, maybe I'm not a conspiracy guy, but it's really starting to look very planned.
45:31
It's like, George, it's like the issue of immigration.
45:34
Right.
45:34
So Democrats ignored the issue, welcomed people in illegally, opened up the borders,
45:40
didn't defend the borders.
45:43
So long comes Trump and says, I'm going to defend the border.
45:46
They're eating cats and dogs and all the rest.
45:49
So now look at what Trump's doing.
45:51
He's taken it to an ugly, un-American, dark place where he's deporting people without due
45:57
process who are not criminals.
45:59
And most of America is in neither one of those places.
46:03
Most of America says, if you're a fucking violent criminal and you're in this country
46:07
illegally, get the hell out.
46:08
If you're a day laborer who's been in this country for 20 years, excuse me, that's different.
46:14
You're part of a broken system.
46:16
If you were brought here as a kid, okay, there's got to be a solution instead of deporting you to another country without any due process.
46:24
Right.
46:24
So now we're living the other extreme on immigration.
46:27
So what we're seeing are both overcorrections and overreactions.
46:30
Bingo.
46:31
Yeah.
46:32
Bingo.
46:33
In terms of immigration, I'm going to just touch on the agricultural worker, right?
46:39
the unfortunate situation i've seen in most cases is they i don't agree they should be targeting them
46:44
but the loophole it seems that's being used is they are generally part of the h2a visa program
46:53
okay when these raids happen and they do catch these people i don't i don't think it's right
46:59
what they're doing they should give them an opportunity but most of the people they have
47:02
caught are people that were not part of that system and it's not their fault it's the employer
47:07
who circumvented the H-2A system
47:09
because they didn't want to pay the fees
47:12
or the wage or whatever it was
47:14
so that they can basically get the worker
47:16
for substandard wages.
47:18
They didn't have to house them.
47:18
They didn't have to drive them back and forth
47:20
to the farms.
47:21
I think the farmers, not farm America,
47:25
not all farmers, by the way.
47:26
I'm just saying, let's just say employers.
47:27
Let me change it.
47:28
I think the employers who are circumventing
47:30
this program are the ones
47:31
that need to be held responsible.
47:32
So George, bingo.
47:34
You and I are on the same page.
47:36
So instead of these folks,
47:37
deport the employers who are circumventing our immigration system,
47:42
and deport the politicians who created this fucked up immigration system.
47:48
It sounds like you and I agree that people who have been here,
47:51
and I know there's going to be people who have a hard stance and say,
47:53
well, they broke the law, screw them, send them back.
47:56
I think it's easy to determine a good person versus a bad person in this case.
48:00
If they don't have a record, they've been here, they've been contributing,
48:03
they have a family, it's very easy to investigate and say,
48:06
well, look, you broke the law. You got one on us. Here's what's going to happen. You're going to
48:10
have this opportunity. You're going to have this much time to get it right. And then you give them
48:14
the deadline. Give them the chance. Yeah. Because a big part of the problem, and again, I'm a
48:21
small government guy, but this takes government resources. You come to this country claiming
48:28
asylum. That's a legal process. Yes. But my fucking God, it takes way too long to adjudicate
48:35
that process. You come here claiming asylum, your case should be adjudicated within weeks.
48:41
Now it's years. So that's got to change because, and Trump did this, every president does this.
48:48
These people are given a little slip of paper. Your court date is in nine months, come back,
48:54
and they're off in the interior of the country. Many never to be heard from again.
48:58
That is the problem. And I think part of the solution I was offering and giving them the
49:04
opportunity would be bypassing that absorbent amount of time to get anything done. Like we
49:11
should fast track this, give them that opportunity. Their deadline definitely shouldn't be nine months
49:17
down the road because again, you're giving the person either the opportunity to do something
49:21
wrong or you're just leaving them in limbo. And then you're building a case on them based on
49:25
something that you said they can do. Bingo. Which is stupid. And then we, and then, yeah. So then
49:33
ICE is actually grabbing people in courthouses as they show up for hearings.
49:37
I don't agree with that at all.
49:38
Yeah, all that.
49:39
Listen, I agree with keeping our borders safe.
49:42
I agree in enforcing policies and laws that are in place.
49:45
But if someone is going out of their way to actually go to court, to go through a hearing,
49:50
Amen.
49:50
Like, they're already going through the process at the point.
49:53
They're already saying, oh, I messed.
49:55
Sure.
49:55
Okay, I'm showing up.
49:56
I'm going to go do what I have to do and do it the right way.
49:59
I don't believe that's where you start snatching people, man.
50:01
And you should be doing that before it even gets there.
50:03
Bingo.
50:06
Anyway, that's what I think.
50:07
I agree, George.
50:09
Totally.
50:10
I'm going to start wrapping up because I know you have like a hard out.
50:14
Look.
50:15
I got to go do my least favorite thing, George.
50:18
I got to go on TV and yell about Trump.
50:20
I hate it.
50:21
Well, look, I wish the Democrat Party luck.
50:25
They're going to need it.
50:26
I hope they learn from you.
50:27
Look, all I'm hearing from you is you want common sense.
50:31
You're advocating for a common sense party, but you definitely don't like Trump because he has steered the Republican Party away from where it used to be.
50:39
So I absolutely understand where you're coming from.
50:41
Let me correct you just slightly.
50:44
Okay.
50:46
You're right.
50:47
I've evolved and I want common sense centrist solutions.
50:51
Right.
50:52
I oppose Trump and then his party, because it is his party, because I literally believe he's
51:02
un-American. Like, here's where I am, George. He lost an election and refused to accept the result.
51:12
As far as I'm concerned, he should have been shipped to Siberia.
51:17
once that we've look, I've run for office and I've won and lost, man. The will of the people,
51:23
the people speak every two years and every four years and you work your ass off to try to win,
51:28
but win or lose, you accept what the people said. Donald Trump's the only person in American
51:33
history, presidential candidate who refused to do that. Now you may disagree with me. Then he
51:38
committed crimes trying to overthrow an American election. I think this guy is an utter traitor to
51:45
this country. Like defending democracy. I believe it's like teetering. That's way more important than
51:52
any issue to me that you and I are talking about right now. I think there's a lot more nuance to
51:57
those situations that it's going to take a lot more time for you and I to go through. My intent is not to
52:04
have an argument with you.
52:06
My intent is to hear you out, man.
52:08
And because I think that's important, really,
52:11
rather than just having a back and forth argument.
52:14
So as far as Trump goes and does and what happens,
52:17
I will say this.
52:18
I agree.
52:19
Look, accept the results.
52:20
If you have grievances, prove it in court.
52:22
That's what should have happened.
52:24
That's not what happened.
52:25
As far as J6 goes, I have my opinions,
52:27
but we can talk about that another day.
52:30
For now, I'm going to say this.
52:32
I think you should run.
52:34
Why not Jill Walsh for 2028?
52:37
You make sense.
52:37
Regardless if you're with a Democrat party or not,
52:40
I think you're coming from a perspective
52:42
that really does represent more of how people feel right now.
52:45
I really do.
52:47
So I'm not going to bullshit you.
52:50
I'm thinking about it.
52:53
I could never run as a Republican
52:55
because I could never win a Republican primary, obviously.
53:00
I've thought about it as a Democrat.
53:02
I don know that the Democratic Party is going to move in my direction I love this If I had a gazillion dollars I run as a well independent Yeah Because I think you right that most Americans are where I am
53:17
You and I are.
53:18
I think so.
53:19
Well, look, put your hat in the ring anyway,
53:20
because worst case, regardless,
53:22
I think you'll get people thinking.
53:23
And I think you would be that disruptor
53:25
that people need.
53:26
Agreed.
53:27
Totally agree.
53:28
All right, sir.
53:28
I'm going to let you go
53:29
because it is that time for you.
53:31
Love to have you back.
53:33
And please, let's stay in touch.
53:34
and appreciate your time.
53:35
Hey, do me a favor, jerk.
53:37
All you got to do is ask.
53:38
I'll come back.
53:38
No worries.
53:39
I appreciate it.
53:40
Thank you, Joe.
53:41
Thanks, George.
53:41
Awesome.
53:41
I want to taste your content
53:42
Hold your breath
53:44
And feel the tension
53:45
Devils hide behind
53:47
Redemption
53:48
Honesty
53:50
It's a one-way gate to hell
54:04
Outro Music