Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - Q&A Panel Discussion Voddie Baucham, Tom Ascol, Jeff Johnson, Tom Nettles

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - Q&A Panel Discussion Voddie Baucham, Tom Ascol, Jeff Johnson, Tom Nettles · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: So these all are questions that you sent in to us,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and we're very grateful. A lot of good questions, a
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: lot of bad questions. Those didn't make it in. Now,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: most of them were very, very good questions. We won't
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: be able to get to all of them this morning,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: but we'll get to as many as we can. It's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a smattering, a lot of different topics here. So I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: guess we'll put you guys through your paces then. First
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: question is for Bodhi, and Bodhi, you know this is coming.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: The answer is seven.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Seven?
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: No, no. That's embarrassing.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Because the question is, what is your deadlift PR?
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: More than seven.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, 700.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: All right, first question, first real question.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: How do we respond to many in Gen Z turning
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Stop it.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: You don't know what you're getting into.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Aside from stop it and you don't know what you're
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: getting into, I think we also need to recognize that
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: what's happened in many instances is what they've seen and
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: what they've experienced has been pragmatic, um, and has been
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: moralistic and has been, um, it's lacked transcendence and they're
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: looking for, they're looking for more, right? They're looking for
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: something that's not just a country club. They're looking for something, um,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: that is overtly religious. And for the last generation, in
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: many instances, evangelicalism has been trying to be anything but that.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Me too. That's well said. I believe that is the case.
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: There is enough frivolity and just meaningless stuff that goes
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: on in the culture and sometimes people do want something
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: that is transcendent they want something that is historic they
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: want something that connects with a long accepted tradition because
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: even tradition itself seems to have the ring of truth
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: about it at times if people have said this for
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: 2 000 years then perhaps there's something that's stabilizing about
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: it and if they are saying the apostles creed in
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: these or the nicene creed then great. I think that
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: God uses those things to convert people. But I believe
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: that is exactly the case. They're looking for that sense
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: of stability and historical commitment and transcendence.
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: John Owen says that the carnal man cannot worship in
• 3:15
  Speaker 6: spirit and truth. And so how do you get unbelievers
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: to have the sensation of worship?
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: How do they feel like they've actually worshiped?
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: Well, two ways.
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: Well, there's only one way, John Owen said, is to
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: make the worship sensual or fleshly. So if you can't
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: sense God, you can sense the things that your five
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: senses can handle. So one way of doing it is
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: the seeker-sensitive model where you have entertainment, worship, smokes, lights, music,
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: and that your senses can ascertain that. And you can
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: get your goosebumps going and you can feel like you've
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: worshiped God. But that doesn't last for years. The entertainment
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: quality is empty. And after years, people drop out of
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: that and say, that didn't do anything for me. It
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: was fun, but it wasn't lasting. And if you don't
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: have the spirit within you, then you go to the
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: other extreme. The other extreme is still appealing to smoke, vestments, architecture,
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: all these things for the flesh to see and to
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: get a hold of something of God in the flesh.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: But that's why a small church with 10 people, with
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: a song leader that can't hold a tune, and the
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: music is out of tune, and someone comes in there
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: and it's like, this is awful. But the child of
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: God is worshiping. The child of God doesn't have to
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: have the flesh to worship God. And that's why we
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: worship in spirit and truth. And there's something missing in
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: the central worship that the Catholic Church has or the
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: East Orthodox Church has and the seeker-sensitive churches.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Very good.
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: You know, there's a phenomenon that I think is really
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: quite remarkable in which there is such an awareness that
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: people who are involved in deeply held religious convictions. I
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: won't say they always arise out of conversion, but people
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: who have deeply held religious convictions, there's so much communication
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: and so much in the public media about all of
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: this that there is some sort of gravitational pull for
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: if you find out that someone is actually involved in
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: something that's trying to be religious, that's trying to create
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: moral values, or that is even tying in to to
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: historical values. I was sitting by a couple on the
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: plane and it became clear that I was going to
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: speak at a place and this conference was about revival.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: And they were so happy. They were Roman Catholic. And
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: they were just happy. So y'all are going to talk
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: about the Bible and Jesus and what it means to
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: be devoted?
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, that's right. And so they were
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: happy about that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: And I didn't have time to find out if they
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: really sort of had a sense of repentance and faith
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: in the finality of Christ and those kinds of things.
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: But they were happy that there is something that is
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: reaching deep into the soul of people and letting them
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: know that there is a transcendent value, that there is
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: something to which they need to be connected before they
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: can have the hope of eternal life or before they
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: can be of any use in this life. And so
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: I think that that means that one thing, we have
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: to be very clear also that we're not just trying
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: to promote religious values, that there is a specific sort
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: of doctrinal framework that we believe is involved in what
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: true salvation is, that it's not just overcoming the shallowness
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: of the culture that we're about. It is an eternal
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: thing in which we need to be rightly related to
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: God by a righteousness that comes only through Jesus Christ
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: because only he has achieved that righteousness which the just
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: law demands. And so I think that there is a
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: way we can be pulled into this and we can
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: be glad that people are realizing there's a radical division
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: between the extreme secularism and those who have religious values.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: And it should make us much more clear about what
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: we're really after when we are preaching.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: And talking about revival and Those kinds of things.
• 7:50
  Speaker 7: So the part of the question then, what do we do?
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: How do we respond?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe perhaps how do you help someone who's drifting that way?
• 8:04
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the impulse to the degree that we've
• 8:08
  Speaker 8: identified it is right.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: It's right.
• 8:11
  Speaker 8: And so I don't want to squelch that. You don't
• 8:14
  Speaker 8: want to bop them on the head and say, you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 8: just stay in this, this superficial shallow.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:20
  Speaker 8: I don't mind saying stop it, but, but I mean,
• 8:23
  Speaker 8: when you can, you know, I mean, quite honestly, if
• 8:26
  Speaker 8: I had to choose between Eastern Orthodox church or a
• 8:28
  Speaker 8: church that does game of thrones worship, I'd probably go
• 8:32
  Speaker 8: to the Eastern Orthodox church. You know, I mean, that
• 8:34
  Speaker 8: impulse is right. The impulse is right.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: The confessional history is something that.
• 8:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 8:40
  Speaker 8: I hear the Nicene Creed, you know, so, uh, Yeah,
• 8:45
  Speaker 8: but what I would want to say to this generation is, look,
• 8:51
  Speaker 8: you don't go from that which is wrong to that
• 8:55
  Speaker 8: which is wronger, you know, or not going to get
• 9:00
  Speaker 8: you on the path that you want to get on.
• 9:02
  Speaker 8: What you need to do is work for reformation. You know,
• 9:04
  Speaker 8: if you can do it in the context of the
• 9:06
  Speaker 8: church where you are, great. If not, find others and
• 9:10
  Speaker 8: start something. Start a church. Yeah, because what you said initially, Tom,
• 9:16
  Speaker 8: is so right. You don't know what you're getting into.
• 9:19
  Speaker 8: And I think that's true for a lot of these guys.
• 9:22
  Speaker 8: They just know what they're getting out of. And they
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: want to get out of it. And that impulse is right.
• 9:27
  Speaker 8: And so, yeah, I don't think we do well to
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: just ridicule that desire. That's a right desire. We need
• 9:36
  Speaker 8: to own it and say, yeah, you know, right. What
• 9:40
  Speaker 8: you're seeing is true. But what you're trying to jump
• 9:43
  Speaker 8: into as an antidote is not right, not good.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I think this is also where confessionalism comes in. Because
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: when we are holding to our confessions and when we're
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: teaching people our confessions, what you're doing is... you're not
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: only connecting them to history and to that authority that
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: they seem to be seeking somewhere else but you're also
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: exposing why the reformation happened Right. You're letting them know
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: that this is this is this is not just good.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: And true because it's historic.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Right. But this is good and true because it's rooted
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: in Scripture. And throughout history, we've had to deal with
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: these things, you know, several times.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: So I think by doing that, we sort of inoculate
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: them against history. at least some of these movements because
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: they've already heard about them they already know the distinction
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: between that and Protestantism and it at least gives them
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: categories so that when they're seeing the mass they're not
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: just going wow this is you know whatever.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know this is a bit unfair to ask
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this question without Dr. Beeky here but I'll ask it
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: anyway What should a Baptist Christian do when there is
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: no suitable church in his area except one Christian Reformed
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Paedo-Baptist church?
• 11:26
  Speaker 8: What does Spurgeon say? If the town has no church,
• 11:29
  Speaker 8: shouldn't we start one? You know, something like that. But again,
• 11:34
  Speaker 8: if that's the only alternative, I would go there. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 8: would certainly go there. I may not be able to unite...
• 11:41
  Speaker 8: in a covenanted relationship, depending on what their standards required. But, yeah,
• 11:47
  Speaker 8: I would certainly want to put myself under the sound
• 11:50
  Speaker 8: teaching of God's Word.
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: I mean, we, historic Baptist confessions and catechisms and all,
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: Hercules Collins borrowed from the Dutch Reformed in order to
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: do his Orthodox catechism. I have a student who's writing
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: dissertations on Hercules Collins right now and So I would
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: say 95% of what they profess we would agree with
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: and we would want people to hear and the piety
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: and the devotion and the sanctifying influence of truth and
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: all of those things I think.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: We would want to be involved in.
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: We would not want to make a public protest at
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: a baptism of an infant or something like that, but
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: I think that if that's the only option while you're
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: Sort of sorting out the town to see if there
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: may be other interests to start a new work in
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: order to worship and to hear the word and to
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: have the sanctifying influences of the spirit. He accompanies his truth.
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: I agree with Tom. That would be an excellent option
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: to do.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd imagine a lot of it has to do
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: with whether you have young children or not.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Well, as in any situation, you have to.
• 13:07
  Speaker 8: You have to own the responsibility for your family. And so,
• 13:11
  Speaker 8: you know, you teach your kids and you try to
• 13:13
  Speaker 8: do it very respectfully. But, yeah, I would not want
• 13:15
  Speaker 8: them to witness infant sprinkling and think that that's right
• 13:22
  Speaker 8: and normative.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Now, colonial New England, they may have come and kidnapped
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: your kids and baptized them just because you were a heretic.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: But. I don't think that'll happen today.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: They wouldn't kidnap your kids and say you hadn't been
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: baptized yet.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Well, my point is more, you know, perhaps maybe the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: church would not admit you into membership with those convictions.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Well, I don't think you'd want to.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I was personally, I was a member of a PCA
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: church for five years with Baptist convictions was greatly benefited
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: by that, but, and grew there in that church, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't have kids so I could do that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: Um, Another question.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I have greatly appreciated the emphasis on prayer this week,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: particularly on churches praying for revival. In light of this,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: what does your corporate prayer meeting look like in your church?
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: It's simple.
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: We meet Wednesday nights for a prayer meeting every week.
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: What we've developed over the years, we've done different things.
• 14:23
  Speaker 8: Like once a quarter we will have an emphasis on,
• 14:25
  Speaker 8: or we have had an emphasis on manhood and womanhood
• 14:29
  Speaker 8: so that we will divide men and women up and
• 14:31
  Speaker 8: try to drill down on specific things and turn it
• 14:35
  Speaker 8: into a good opportunity to focus on some things that
• 14:38
  Speaker 8: the culture is going against.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: But typically what we have.
• 14:42
  Speaker 8: Once a month, the first Wednesday of the month, we
• 14:44
  Speaker 8: set aside for prayer and fasting for revival and reformation.
• 14:48
  Speaker 8: So that's what it's given to. So you walk into
• 14:50
  Speaker 8: the doors on that Wednesday night and we'll have announcements.
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: We may sing a song. Um, and then I think
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: all of our, everybody stays together on those Wednesdays. I
• 15:00
  Speaker 8: think we, we typically will have classes for kids as
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: well on Wednesday nights, but not on that one.
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: And, uh, some scripture will be read.
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: We have a handout of here are prayer points and
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: things you can pray for scriptures that will, uh, fuel
• 15:15
  Speaker 8: your prayers about reformation revival. And, um, No more than
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: maybe 10 minutes of teaching about, you know, here's how
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: to pray, and these are some things we ought to
• 15:27
  Speaker 8: be thinking about, and here's what the Word of God says.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: And then we just pray.
• 15:30
  Speaker 8: In our auditorium, we have microphones set up so that
• 15:33
  Speaker 8: we want people to be able to hear the prayers.
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: So we ask you to come to a microphone and
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: pray so that the rest of us can hear and
• 15:40
  Speaker 8: say amen. We want to be able to unite together
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: in that. And sometimes whoever's leading will call upon someone
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: to start, and then the leader will close at an
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: appropriate point. And we try to be succinct. Don't pray
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: five minutes. Don't pray about everything in the world. Pray
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: about this. This is what the focal point of the
• 16:04
  Speaker 8: prayer is on this night for Reformation Revival. On the
• 16:09
  Speaker 8: other Wednesday nights, we're not limited, and we have different things.
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: We hand out a little sheet about prayer points, missionaries,
• 16:17
  Speaker 8: families in the church, uh, special needs in the church, uh, emphases,
• 16:22
  Speaker 8: things that might be coming up in terms of ministry, uh,
• 16:25
  Speaker 8: opportunities or missionaries and things like that. And it'll be
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: the same type of deal, maybe 15 minutes, 20 minutes
• 16:31
  Speaker 8: of teaching, and then, uh, 25, 30 minutes of praying
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: and same thing deal. You know, don't, this is not
• 16:39
  Speaker 8: a pastoral prayer and this is not your closet prayer.
• 16:43
  Speaker 8: This is a congregational prayer. And so it's different. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 8: you need to know your context and be succinct, specific.
• 16:50
  Speaker 8: Don't try to pray about 15 different things. But you
• 16:53
  Speaker 8: pray about one or two or three things. And if
• 16:56
  Speaker 8: you want to pray about other things, then you get
• 16:58
  Speaker 8: up and do it again. But don't try to take
• 17:00
  Speaker 8: 10 minutes or five minutes to pray about a number
• 17:03
  Speaker 8: of things.
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: That kills a prayer meeting.
• 17:05
  Speaker 8: I mean, if the first person that stands up to
• 17:07
  Speaker 8: pray prays seven or eight minutes about everything in the world,
• 17:11
  Speaker 8: it just kills. You can hear all the oxygen go
• 17:15
  Speaker 8: out of the room because people's minds get distracted.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: They're not focused.
• 17:20
  Speaker 8: But if you can have people that will stand up
• 17:22
  Speaker 8: and start praying very succinctly, very specifically, acknowledging greatness about
• 17:28
  Speaker 8: God and then laying petitions before him in a very
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: precise way, they're wonderful times. Our Wednesday night prayer meetings
• 17:36
  Speaker 8: are wonderful times because people pray and you can enter
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: into those prayers. We do something kind of similar.
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: We have our prayer meeting on Sunday morning. And before
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: the service, we have a teaching class. And then after that,
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: we go right into the prayer meeting. And we have
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: three prayer requests, one a missionary, one related to something
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: in our church, if it's for the parents or for
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: the children, and one's.
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: Always for the lost.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: And in that, we always pray for the service that
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: we're about to have. Um, and we try to encourage
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: people to pray short, um, make room for the women
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: to pray, make room for the kids to pray. And, um, uh, we,
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: we have microphones that we have runners that carry the
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: microphones to wherever praise, they're going to be a microphone
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: pretty close so we can hear them. And, um, so, uh, we,
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: and twice a year, and this is happens to be
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: tonight and in the morning and I'll be home for this, um,
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: We have a time of prayer and fasting where we
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: just pray for our lost children. And so we begin
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: to fast on Saturday, which is today. And then we
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: fast through the night and fast all in the morning.
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: And we have extended prayer time. And we pray for
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: a long time. And it's only for our lost children
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: within the congregation. And our prayer meetings are way more
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: attended on those Sundays. And it's very encouraging because as
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: one person lays out their heart, another person just quickly
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: jumps in.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: And what I've learned about.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: Our church members, and I know this is true about you,
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: I already know it's true about you because it's true
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: about me, is if you want to pray fervent prayers
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: and urgent prayers, you've got to find something you're urgent about,
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: something you really want. And it's hard to pray for
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: a revival if you really don't want it. But there's
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: one thing we all want really bad, really bad. It
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: keeps us up at night, and that's the salvation of
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: our children. And I found that twice a year, let's
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: just pray for our children.
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: People come out of the woodworks, and they come to
• 19:58
  Speaker 7: those prayer meetings.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: And so those are really important prayer meetings to have
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: because mothers are praying, grandfathers and grandmothers are praying, brothers
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: and sisters are praying, and.
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: They mean it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: And then we hear the heart of the people, and
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: then that leads to people praying for one another's children.
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: So I would encourage to do that as well.
• 20:20
  Speaker 8: One thing I forgot that we do almost every Wednesday
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: is we give opportunity for folks who have shared the
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: gospel with folks that week to tell about it and
• 20:30
  Speaker 8: give us the first names of the people, and we'll
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: pray for those people that have had the gospel presented
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: to them that week.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Here's a question on pneumatology.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: During the conference, we have prayed and asked God, the
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Holy Spirit, to be present with us here. Even though
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: all believers have the Spirit dwelling in them, it seems
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: that we are asking and hoping that he will come
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: into this assembly and bless this time together. Why do
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: we ask for this when he's present within us all?
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: Jesus said, how much more will he give the Holy
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: Spirit to those who ask him? There are different intensifications
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: of the work of the Spirit. We know this in
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: our own lives. We are not as sanctified now as
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: we will be next year, hopefully. So there's an intensification
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: of the work of the Spirit. The flesh lusts against
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: the Spirit. The Spirit against the flesh. So you cannot
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: do the things that you would. This means either way,
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: if you're a Christian, you cannot sin without the conviction
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: of the Spirit. And you cannot... Also do all the
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: good things that you want to do because the flesh
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: lusting against them.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: And we're all aware of this.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: And so each of us individually, we pray for more
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: of an operation of the work of the spirit to
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: sanctify us. We pray that we would be more submissive
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: to his operations and truth. When we read the scripture,
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: we pray. I pray that the Holy Spirit will take
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: these words that he has inspired and use them to
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: sanctify my heart, use them to give me a deep
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: conscientious conviction about service that I should be involved in.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: And so we're all aware of the necessity of intensifications
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: of the work of the Spirit in accordance with his
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: truth in our own lives.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: In the same way it happens in the corporate worship.
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: There can be great movements of the Spirit and conviction
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: and the number of people that come under conviction, the
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: number of people whose minds are riveted on the truth
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: as it's being preached, that is a work of the Spirit.
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: And so I think we realize that at the ascension
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: of Christ and his sending of the Spirit that we
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: are now absolutely dependent upon the effectual operations of the
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: Spirit for our sanctification and for growth in the church
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: and for conversion and And so I think it's entirely
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: appropriate that we pray that we will have a visitation
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: of the spirit during our time of corporate worship and
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: hearing of the word.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And also the things we don't repeat, we forget. We
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: need to remind ourselves, put it in a different context, right?
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Why do I need to tell my wife I love her?
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I told her once.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: Right, I told her once. And I told her in
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: front of a bunch of people, right? She was at
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: the wedding. I was there. She was there.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So like, like, why do I need to, uh, you
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: put it in that context and we all laugh, right? Um, it, it, it's,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it's the same thing. We don't presume upon God and we,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: we don't just say, well, yeah, sure.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: Um, he's, he's promised this.
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: Sure.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I can count on that. So, um, why mention it?
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Why talk about it?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Um, That's not the way that we live this Christian life.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: We need to be reminded again and again and again.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And also, we need to commune with God again and
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: again and again. And that's part of this communing with God.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: The next question is simple. How do you lead your
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: family well in the area of prayer?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Does the word well have to be in there?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: First question, do you lead your family well?
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: Boy, how does anybody pray well to try to follow Scripture?
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: When you're praying, does your mind ever wander? Do you
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: even sometimes forget what you yourself are praying?
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: I try to repent of it, but I think leading
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: your family well is... to keep reminding your family that
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: prayer is something that gives us sustenance individually and that
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: keeps our family together, that helps us bear corporate witness,
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: that reading the scripture and making sure that we pray
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: in accordance.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: With revealed truth. The Spirit has given us the scripture.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: And He wants us to be aware of these truths
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: as we pray so we'll know what we're to ask for.
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: And so I think that just what has been said
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: about corporate prayer meetings, if we lead our family well,
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: we will saturate it with scripture. We'll make sure perhaps
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: there's just one scripture we're focusing on today.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: We want to sort of pray about what.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: This scripture means, not make it laborious, not make it
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: something that is a challenge to the physical limitations that
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: we all but something that is very pointed toward God's
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: truth and God's truth as it intersects with the needs
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: of our family and with our individual needs. That's what
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: seems to me to have been a blessing to try
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: to lead in that way.
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: Just do it. You know, it's about 75% of it
• 25:59
  Speaker 8: is just do it. Just do it. make it a
• 26:02
  Speaker 8: regular part of the rhythm of your life and your family.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Operations.
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: When we had kids, it was to go through different seasons.
• 26:13
  Speaker 8: When our kids were young, they were on our schedule.
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: But once they begin to get driver's license and jobs
• 26:20
  Speaker 8: and things, I'll never forget when some of our older
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: ones begin to have that, and they're out. We had
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: a set time in the evening when we would do
• 26:29
  Speaker 8: our family worship, And praise God. I mean, there was
• 26:33
  Speaker 8: a couple of our kids said, well, look, you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: I'm not going to be in until nine o'clock.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: Can we wait and do it then? And we thought, oh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: that's sweet.
• 26:41
  Speaker 8: We ought to do that. You know, so we did that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 8: And the other one said, well, I'm not going to
• 26:44
  Speaker 8: be in until 930. I mean, after a while, you're
• 26:46
  Speaker 8: trying to come. You can't do it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: Sorry, guys.
• 26:49
  Speaker 8: This is when we're doing it. We want you to
• 26:51
  Speaker 8: be here. If you can't be here, that's God's providence.
• 26:53
  Speaker 8: And I'm glad you want to be here.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: But.
• 26:55
  Speaker 8: You just can't do that. You just got to go
• 26:58
  Speaker 8: and do it. And so now then, you know, we
• 27:00
  Speaker 8: don't have any kids in the house. And Don and
• 27:02
  Speaker 8: I will pray in the morning. And when we don't,
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: it's an exception. And it's just, you know, we read scripture.
• 27:10
  Speaker 8: We have things that we pray about every day and
• 27:13
  Speaker 8: things that we will pray periodically depending on what's going on. But,
• 27:18
  Speaker 8: you know, there are names that are mentioned in our
• 27:21
  Speaker 8: house to heaven every morning. I mean, names in this
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: room that that's true of, names in our church, our family,
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: and things beyond our local context.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: But just do it.
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: I don't ever feel like I've done it well.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Just do it.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: In retirement, Margaret and I have more time to spend
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: in the morning with this, so we actually have usually
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: three books going. And for a few months now, we've
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: been doing Tom Askell's different devotions. His one that he
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: wrote when his sister was dying. It was a tremendous
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: blessing to read that every day. And then we would
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: have a Jonathan Edwards one that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: We would read. And then we would have a going
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: through the Bible.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: And then the things that would come to mind during
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: those times we would pray about. And one of the
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: things that I think has been so precious to me
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: in this, that Margaret and I are doing this, is
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: how free she feels to interrupt the prayer and remind
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: me of something. I mean, it's like it's corporate, it's participation.
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: She says, oh yeah, remember Sue, she's having that surgery
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: on her foot today. And I say, oh yes, Lord,
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: be with the physicians, get them skilled. And so, well,
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: God knows about it, but Paul said that I know
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: that through your prayers and the help of the Holy Spirit,
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: I will be released and come to you.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: He's told the Philippians that.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: And so, We have to take that seriously that God
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: does some things through prayer that he's decreed to do,
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: but he's not going to do it any way except
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: through prayer. And so I just love it when, when
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: Margaret will break in and remind me of things. It's,
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I remember David is coming up to see
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: Linda today, but pray that he'll get there safely. And
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: so that, that just makes it existentially powerful. I think
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: when you're thinking of things immediately and you're recognizing that
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: that unless God intervenes and unless God sustains, then we're lost.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: And so we're asking.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: Him as many things as we can just pop into
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: our minds when we're doing this. We have things regularly
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: that we want to pray about, and the conversion of
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: children is certainly one of them. But then just these needs,
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: we get this list of things from our Sunday school class.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: about people who have things coming up that week. And
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: when you're in a class that is my age, you've
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: always got a bunch of those that are coming up.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And so Margaret will remind me.
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: And I think that's one of the the sort of
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: the delightful things about the freeness of a family. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: your children should feel free to do that. Oh yeah,
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: I've got this test coming up tomorrow and that teacher
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: is really hard. Would you pray that I can remember
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: everything I've studied or something like that?
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's great.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: And I think that makes them feel like that this
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: devotion time and going before God and hearing his word
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: and wanting to pray according to his truth and then
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: bringing up to him specific things that are going on
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: just makes it makes him realize you believe god is
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: real you believe he's right here with us you believe
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: that he's the one who hears you believe that that
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: we need his strength and his help so yeah those
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: family times can be really rich instructive the.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Next question in your earlier days of ministry can you
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: share one or two ways that your wife supported you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: that helped you the most.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: Would you like to call your wife?
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't want to just be, everything you ask,
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: I just have stuff that comes to my mind. My
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: wife has Parkinson's right now.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: So we pray about that.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: And she thinks about it and she wonders some of
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: the symptoms she's having, are they going to increase at all?
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: But when Tom first asked me to come down here,
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: I immediately told him, no, I can't come. I need
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: to stay here. And Margaret got to realizing, she had
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: been to founders' conferences, she knows how much this means
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: to me, and she sort of got in my face
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: and absolutely insisted that I call him back and say,
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry I refused. Is there still a place?
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: I know you've already made adjustments and all. And so
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: her being sensitive....
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: To the way the Parkinson's has impacted the way we
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: live our lives. And her being prayerful and selective about, okay,
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: you'll just be gone one night to this or so forth.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Do that. You can do it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: So I think that when mates are sensitive to each
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: other and they really want God's will to be done
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: in their lives or they want them to have pleasure
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: in certain fellowship that they have, for that kind of
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: self-giving spirit to be manifest. And I have found that
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: to be just so rich in this season of our life,
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: the way Margaret thinks about these things. And so I
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: think that is a part of the practice that we
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: can have with each other is to realize what gives
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: my wife pleasure to be able to do during the day.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: And can I sacrifice something to make that happen? I
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: think that those are, they may be little things, you know.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: So she wants to go and she wants to pick
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: up a favorite pastry at Kroger. And can I drive
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: her there this time? She doesn't want to drive this time.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: So can I drive her there? Well, I'm writing a
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: Sunday school lesson. No, I don't want to do that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, what's more important?
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: For you to just stick with the stuff right there
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: or for you to help your wife go get this
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: pastry she wants? Well, it may seem insignificant, but that's
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: the thing that is right to do. So I think
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: that that kind of sensitivity that you develop over the
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: years as to how it is you give yourself to
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: your mate is very important.
• 33:29
  Speaker 8: One of the things that I try to remind myself
• 33:32
  Speaker 8: of and Donna of and younger couples, especially in premarital counseling,
• 33:37
  Speaker 8: is for Christians, before he is your husband, he is
• 33:43
  Speaker 8: your brother.
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: And she is your sister before she's your wife.
• 33:48
  Speaker 8: So we have relationships in Christ that don't get jettisoned.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Whenever you say I do.
• 33:56
  Speaker 8: And so how are brothers and sisters in Christ to
• 33:59
  Speaker 8: live together? Well, if you see your brother in sin,
• 34:01
  Speaker 8: you go tell him. And sometimes Christian women, Christian wives
• 34:05
  Speaker 8: can get that confounded because it doesn't feel submissive. You know,
• 34:09
  Speaker 8: I'm supposed to be submissive to my husband, so my
• 34:11
  Speaker 8: husband's sinning. But if I protest that sin, well, I'm
• 34:15
  Speaker 8: not being the kind of godly wife.
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: I'm supposed to be in submission.
• 34:18
  Speaker 8: And if you get that relationship straight, then it just
• 34:22
  Speaker 8: solves a lot of problems.
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: And my wife's done that really well.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And really often.
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: As she says, she lives in a target-rich environment when
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: it comes to pointing out sin, so... Yeah, I'll just
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: tell you one little story.
• 34:41
  Speaker 8: It was early in the ministry in Cape Coral, and
• 34:44
  Speaker 8: I was meeting with some men about something, I forget
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: what it was, or some kind of meeting at church
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: on a Wednesday night after a prayer meeting. And we
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: were in their meeting, and somebody starts banging on the
• 34:54
  Speaker 8: wall in the next room. And so, you know, it
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: was irritating. So I get up and go in there,
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: and it's a bunch of kids, and they're kicking the wall. And,
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: you know, I treat all the kids at the church
• 35:02
  Speaker 8: like they're my kids. I mean, just the same deal.
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: I said, y'all stop that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 8: I said, oh, yes, sir. So we go back to
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: the meeting, and it starts again. So I go in there,
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: and there's, I don't know, four or five little kids
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: in there kicking the wall. So I said, come with me.
• 35:15
  Speaker 8: So I grabbed them by the hands. I take them out,
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: and my wife's talking to their moms out in the foyer.
• 35:21
  Speaker 8: I said, ladies, you ought to do something with your children.
• 35:23
  Speaker 8: They're disrupting our meeting. I mean, I would say that
• 35:27
  Speaker 8: to my kids. So I go back to my meeting,
• 35:29
  Speaker 8: and later that night, I go home. Donna meets me
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: at the door. I mean, I opened the front door.
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: She's standing there. And she looks at me and she says,
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: and it had been an intense series of months of ministry.
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: She said, you can schedule a vacation tonight or I'm
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: going to schedule a lobotomy tomorrow. And it took her
• 35:59
  Speaker 8: a while to convince me that what I had done
• 36:01
  Speaker 8: was sinful. But she said, no, you were harsh. These
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: women looked at one another. Their jaws dropped. Nobody said
• 36:09
  Speaker 8: a word. They took their kids and left. She said,
• 36:11
  Speaker 8: you really did a lot of damage. And I was
• 36:14
  Speaker 8: completely oblivious to it.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: But she was right.
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: And so I was able to go and repent and
• 36:20
  Speaker 7: didn't get a lobotomy. We took a vacation.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: But it wasn't a vain threat. His wife is a nurse,
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: and she knows how to schedule a lobotomy.
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: Well, a wife will make or break a pastor. And
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: I'm thankful to have a great wife. How does a
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: good wife support a pastor in every way?
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: Every way. There's the unsung hero.
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: The pressure that's on pastoral ministry flows down to the wife.
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: But there's no.
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: Appreciation, a little appreciation that gets down to the wife.
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: There's the difficulties of wondering if everybody wants to be
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: your friend because it's the way to get to the pastor.
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: I mean, seriously, are the concepts of making friends and
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: they leave the church, then they leave you as a
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: friend because you're the wife of the pastor. And so
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: the hardships of building relationships, that's difficult. The criticism that
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: comes to the pastor gets to the wife. And she
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: has to support that and bear that. And so then
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: just to have a wife that keeps steady, encourages you,
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: loves you, supports you, sacrifices your time. You get called
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: out in the middle of the night. You're all on
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: call 24-7. And you want family time. And sometimes your
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: wife says, I need family time. And you've got to go, yes,
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: I can't take this call. Other times she says, no,
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: you need to go. And you've got to listen to
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: her wisdom. And she keeps you balanced. A good wife
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: keeps you balanced. And she won't like me telling you
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: this story. But one time, no joke, this visitor came
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: and said to me after the service, that was.
• 38:21
  Speaker 7: One of the most powerful sermons I ever heard. And
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: I was encouraged by that. That was good to hear.
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: And I went home.
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: I said, Letha, this visitor came and he really complimented
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: the sermon.
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: And he said it was a really powerful sermon. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: she looked at me and she goes, that one?
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: So she keeps you encouraged when you need to and
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: humble when you need to.
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: Good wife.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: It's interesting, you said early on. And for us it
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: was interesting because early on, I started preaching about a
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: year and a half after I was converted.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: And I didn't grow up in church. Bridget did.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: So in many ways, she was like a lifeline and
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: an ambassador who helped me to navigate. We didn't think
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: or talk much about it out loud at that time.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: Uh but that's.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely um who she was and absolutely what what I
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: needed um at that time early on um and then
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: of course early on in ministry um trying to balance
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: being um a husband.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: And a father and um.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: And and being in ministry and all of this stuff
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: um she was just absolutely invaluable in, in helping to
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: put those guardrails up. Um, because, uh, like all of us,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a tendency in ministry to just be myopic,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Um, and you have to.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Have that tug on your coattails every now and then
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that says, Hey, look this way, you know? Um, and so,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Early on and then even throughout my ministry, those things
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: have been incredibly just invaluable.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Next question.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Should Christians be praying for the destruction of evil people
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: or the salvation of evil people?
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: Yes. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone care to elaborate?
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: Well, if we follow the Psalms and we think the
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: Psalms are inspired prayers, then you have plenty of both
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: in that. And so even though they seem to be
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: absolutely contradictory, we know that evil people are going to
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: be destroyed and God will do it to His glory,
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: and so it's not wrong to pray.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: For His glory.
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: And we know that there are some who are God says,
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: for this very cause I raised you up that I
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: might show my glory in you. And so if the
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: destruction of evil people is something that he has raised
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: him up to show his glory, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: But we know that he saves the chief of sinners.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: I don't think Paul was wrong or using hyperbole when
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: he said he was the worst of sinners. He had
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: every advantage to know the scripture, to know who the
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: Messiah should have been, to know what his followers would
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: have been, to know all of those passages of scripture.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: And he perverted them like the Pharisees did. And he
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: was more zealous for his perversion of it than any
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: of them. And so when he says he was the
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: chief of sinners and he was converted in order that
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: he might be an encouragement to those that would believe
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: in him, we know that God does save the chief
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: of sinners. And so we can pray for their conversion.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, because they do not glorify
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: God and they are opposed to his ways and they
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: ridicule his gospel, we can pray for their destruction. And
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: I think biblically, those are not mutually exclusive ideas.
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: I think it's, yeah, that's true. And I think it's perspective.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: We're to love our enemies and pray for those who
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: persecute us. So when it comes to those who harm
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: me and hate me and do damage to me, I
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: love them. I pray for them. I need to extend
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: mercy to them, forgive them. That's from here to here.
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: But when I look at God and God in them,
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: we're like the psalmist, I hate those who hate you.
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: And there's a sense, I think all Christians have, that
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: we're looking for the return of the Lord, not for
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: our vindication, and not because we want to see the
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: wicked perish, because even the Lord doesn't delight necessarily just
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: in the wicked perishing. But there is something that we
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: long for, for Christ's glory to be vindicated and for
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: the workers of iniquity to bow the knee to the
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: King Jesus. And we desire that. And so I think
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: when we think of God, it's good to pray for
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: their destruction. When we think about ourselves, it's good to
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: pray for their salvation and how we can bless them.
• 43:22
  Speaker 8: I would say as well that you can pray for
• 43:28
  Speaker 8: the destruction of the enemies of God in a loving way.
• 43:36
  Speaker 8: Because if they're enemies of God and they continue on
• 43:40
  Speaker 8: that path, they are heaping up wrath for the day
• 43:44
  Speaker 8: of wrath. And if you pray that God will kill
• 43:47
  Speaker 8: them on Tuesday rather than letting them heap up more
• 43:50
  Speaker 8: wrath all through the week, it's loving to them. Because
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: you are praying that God will spare them increased wrath
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: if they don't turn and bow the knee to Christ.
• 44:05
  Speaker 8: I think this is an important point for soldiers. Is
• 44:11
  Speaker 8: there a way that you can kill your enemy to
• 44:13
  Speaker 8: the glory of God? I think there has to be,
• 44:16
  Speaker 8: or Christians can't do it. For protecting your own family,
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: is there a way that you can kill an intruder
• 44:24
  Speaker 8: who wants to do harm? to your children, your wife,
• 44:31
  Speaker 8: to the glory of God? There has to be or
• 44:33
  Speaker 8: you can't do it because we're to do everything to
• 44:35
  Speaker 8: the glory of God. And the way that I've tried
• 44:37
  Speaker 8: to sort that out of my own mind is if
• 44:41
  Speaker 8: I keep this man from doing what he intends to
• 44:44
  Speaker 8: do that will be wicked.
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: And that ends his.
• 44:49
  Speaker 8: Life, I've actually done something loving. And if I can't
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: think like that then I'm going to be confounded on
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: a lot of those kind of moral issues, and I
• 45:01
  Speaker 8: think this one fits into that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: So that explains something about the arrangement of your house.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: When someone comes in your front door, they see a
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: trophy room, and they see all these animals you've killed,
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: things on.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: The floor, and this guy will think... man, this guy
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: has a gun and he's not afraid to use it.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: He has several.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I better get out of here.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Several.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 45:26
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 45:26
  Speaker 9: So that explains it. No, that's a, that's a mercy room.
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: Not merciful to that poor gator.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: That's good. Um, I've recently come to learn about the
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: doctrines of grace, but I'm having a hard time.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Praise the Lord.
• 45:51
  Speaker 7: Amen.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: You're learning the Bible.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: But they're having a hard time understanding how believing these
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: truths isn't antinomianism.
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: Well, if you understand the doctrine of justification by faith,
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: you know that Jesus came and he died because the
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: law demanded it. He lived his life sacrificially and with
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: increasing intensity of opposition because he knew he needed to
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: fulfill the law. The law still is the standard of righteousness.
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: In justification, it has been fulfilled for us in Christ,
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: both in its penalty and in its imputation of perfect obedience.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: And now it becomes the source of your being molded
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: according to the image of Christ. And the image of
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: Christ is one of perfect obedience Absolute submission to the
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: law of God because it is holy, just, right, good,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: and spiritual. It is impossible to believe the doctrine of
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: justification by faith and the doctrines of grace and be
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: an antinomian because that is the standard of righteousness. It
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: is that which is the, and our conformity to that
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: is an indication that there is increasing holiness in us.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: We don't save ourselves by any level of obedience because
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: we never attained that. But the fact that we have
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: actually come to value Christ's righteousness and his death means
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: that we have had a proper evaluation of the law
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: of God.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: And therefore, we love it.
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: Grace makes obedience possible because if we had to be
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: saved by our works, then our works would be tainted
• 47:37
  Speaker 6: because it would be self-motivated. It wouldn't be for the
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: glory of God. It wouldn't be out of unselfish pouring
• 47:43
  Speaker 6: out of self. But once we see that we're saved
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: by pure grace and it's not anything that we can do,
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: not even in our good decision-making, not anything to boast
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: in at all, then from that grace comes true gratitude.
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: And from that gratitude comes the ability, the power, to
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: love unselfishly and glorify God. So if it wasn't for
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: pure grace and salvation by grace, there's not a good
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: work we could do. And so it doesn't lead to antinomianism.
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: It leads to good works.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: Amen.
• 48:27
  Speaker 8: One thing I like to say and remind myself of
• 48:30
  Speaker 8: as well is that God loves his law as much
• 48:34
  Speaker 8: as he loves his gospel. And if we believe that
• 48:38
  Speaker 8: and we should love what God loves, then you're not
• 48:40
  Speaker 8: going to go too far. If you can just keep
• 48:43
  Speaker 8: that in mind, try to understand what is his law.
• 48:47
  Speaker 8: And without the law, there is no gospel. Without the
• 48:52
  Speaker 8: breaking of the law, we don't need the gospel. And
• 48:55
  Speaker 8: Jesus came to magnify the law and make it honorable.
• 49:01
  Speaker 8: If we're going to be like Jesus, then you can't.
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: dismiss what God has revealed to be his standard of righteousness.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: If God is slow to anger and patient, then why
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: when man first sinned was his wrath and punishment so
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: severe and long lasting?
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: Whoa. What's wrong with you people?
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: So that's actually the opposite of the truth. Because there's
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: this picture in my mind, right? There's this picture in
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: my mind when the curse comes. And when the curse
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: comes to the serpent and he says, I'll put enmity
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: between you and the woman and between her seed and
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: your seed. I had this picture in my mind of
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Eve who at that moment has just been told, you're
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: not going to die today.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Cause she should have. She should have.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: But instead she, It is not only are you not
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: going to die today, but you're going to have offspring
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: who will actually deal with what just happened so that
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: salvation might come. So that's actually the opposite of the truth.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: God's response was merciful.
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: If not, the Bible would be three chapters long.
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: And no one would read it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: Nobody would read it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: You know, I was dealing with this recently in the
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: studies in Leviticus, or in Exodus, in Leviticus.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Exodus, Leviticus. I think it was Leviticus. It's somewhere
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: in the Bible. It's really a good book.
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: Leviticus 9, where Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: fire just came out and consumed them right.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: There, and Aaron was not allowed even to mourn. And
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: so I had to.
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: Go back and revisit this, how God can be so
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: apparently vicious in his jealousy and just consume people with.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: Fire right there. And I had to go right back
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: to what Bodhi just talked about.
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: It says, we are all under a sentence of death.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, that was a just, it was a kind
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: and clear statement. In the day you eat thereof, you
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: shall surely die. What is not clear about that And
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: what is not right about obeying the God who made you?
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: What is not right about that? And so he gives
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: you every tree, every tree.
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: You can eat every tree in the garden. But the
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: tree in the midst of the garden, you shall not
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: eat of it. The day you eat, you shall surely die.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: There's nothing subtle. There's nothing mystical about that. It's very clear.
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: And they disobeyed. They were deceived, but they disobeyed. And
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: so the fact that they were not killed immediately shows
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: that God is filled with patience. But when Nadab and
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: Abihu disobey the commands that relate to the person of
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: the Redeemer, since they're already under the sentence of death,
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: and since he has already said that disobedience means death,
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: there is nothing at all impatient about his immediately consuming them.
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: It's just, it's, that is the verdict that's on all
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: of us. Um, and, and to me, the, the problem
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: of evil shouldn't even be a problem.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: We're evil.
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: And that's the reason evil exists. And the reason it
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: continues to exist is because God is long suffering toward us.
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: And he has elect in more generations that he's going
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: to call to show his, his mercy.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Um, Yeah.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: If we just, we realize that we're just, we're under
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: the sentence of death and, and then hell is waiting
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: and it's a legitimate, just hell. Then a lot of
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: the things that we coddle ourselves with just simply don't
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: make any sense.
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: The hardest thing about God's judgment in hell, if you
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: think about the attributes of hell, that's isolation. There's no
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: remaining grace. It's complete misery. Um, But it's the eternality
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: of it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 7: It's infinite.
• 53:33
  Speaker 6: There's no end. There's no end. That has to be
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: hell itself. But the question is really not why is
• 53:39
  Speaker 6: God so severe? The question is really why did he
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: send his son to endure.
• 53:48
  Speaker 7: It?
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: It wasn't like I'm going to slap Jesus on the
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: hand and give him a minor punishment here. I'm just
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: going to put them in time out. I'm not going
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: to do the full-fledged wrath. I don't know who's going
• 54:04
  Speaker 6: to have the hottest spot in hell. I don't know
• 54:07
  Speaker 6: who that is. Hitler, maybe. Joe Osteen, someone. But the
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: Lord Jesus, our Savior, did not take any lesser spot
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: of wrath.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Tell us secrets.
• 54:33
  Speaker 7: Tom Nettles wants that cut out of the video.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: I want to go on record. Tom Asquill says amen.
• 54:46
  Speaker 6: But the mystery is, the real mystery is, it is
• 54:49
  Speaker 6: severe judgment. The mystery is, why did Jesus, the son
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: of the living God, endure the full-fledged wrath? That's the mystery.
• 55:00
  Speaker 8: This goes to what I think typifies much of what's
• 55:04
  Speaker 8: wrong with modern evangelicalism is that grace doesn't amaze us anymore.
• 55:10
  Speaker 8: Justice and judgment amazes us. How dare God, you know,
• 55:16
  Speaker 8: and I want to be sensitive to this, but it's true.
• 55:19
  Speaker 8: Our folks at our church know that I say this
• 55:21
  Speaker 8: all the time and people sometimes chide me about it,
• 55:24
  Speaker 8: but the folks have been around there a while. I
• 55:26
  Speaker 8: don't think chide me as much about it now, but
• 55:29
  Speaker 8: you know, people say.
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: How are you doing?
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: I said, man, I'm great. I'm not in hell.
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: And one guy said to me, well, that's a low bar. No, no, no, no.
• 55:38
  Speaker 8: That's a massively high bar. You know, I should be
• 55:41
  Speaker 8: in hell. We should be having this meeting in hell.
• 55:44
  Speaker 7: And the fact we're not, why?
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: Grace. Grace.
• 55:48
  Speaker 8: So if we can get that straight in our minds again,
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: what sin is, what God's law requires that we don't fulfill,
• 55:54
  Speaker 8: what Jesus did to fulfill that law, we'll be stunned
• 55:59
  Speaker 8: with every breath.
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: How good and gracious is this God?
• 56:05
  Speaker 8: And if we see it that way, then who was
• 56:09
  Speaker 8: it that said, you know, Jacob, I loved Esau, I
• 56:12
  Speaker 8: hated him.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: I have a problem with that verse.
• 56:15
  Speaker 8: It's not the problem that God hated Esau, but how
• 56:18
  Speaker 8: in the world could he love Jacob? I mean, that's
• 56:22
  Speaker 8: the right orientation for thinking.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Here's our final question for this morning. How does one
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: truly repent of sins? Is it repentance if after two days,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: two weeks, or even two years later, I seem to
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: keep committing that same sin?
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: Repentance into life is a saving grace whereby a sinner,
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: out of a true sense of his sin and apprehension
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: of the mercy of God in Christ, does, with grief
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: and hatred of his sin, turn from it unto God
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: with full purpose of and endeavor after new obedience.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: Baptist Catechism.
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: If we take each one of those phrases, contemplate on them,
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: we have a perfect understanding of what a biblical view
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: of sin is that endures all the way to death.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: Shut my mouth.
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: I would say as a practical thing of help, that
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: if you're struggling, if you're a young man struggling with
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: pornography or you're struggling with some besetting sin, he's like,
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: I hate this sin. And I seem to keep repeating it.
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: Then what I suggest you do is repent even before
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: you quit sinning.
• 57:47
  Speaker 7: And you can't keep sinning when you do.
• 57:49
  Speaker 6: That, because the tendency that what happens to you, it
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: happens to all of us. You fall into guilt and
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: you know, you, you, put the image away or you
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: put the sin away. You got this guilty conscience and
• 58:00
  Speaker 6: you can't pray because God's not going to receive you
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: because you're not worthy. And so you go a day,
• 58:06
  Speaker 6: you go two days, you carry that guilt with you.
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: And then, then you finally thinking I have cleaned up
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: a little bit. I've been, I got a good record.
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: Now that I got a good record for two or
• 58:15
  Speaker 6: three days, now I can go pray. And then you
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: find two weeks later, you're back in it, repeating the
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: cycle over and over and over. It's like what you
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: should do. Seriously, I'm giving you real counsel here. What
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: you should do is even before you put the image away, say, Lord,
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: I hate this.
• 58:30
  Speaker 7: Please forgive me. I'm unworthy.
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: You come to God in your sin. You come not clean.
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: You come with your guilt. You don't come cleaning yourself up.
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: This is the thing about repentance. It's so glorious.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: You don't.
• 58:45
  Speaker 6: Work your way out of your repentance and finally bring
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: your good works to the Lord. No, I'm coming with
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: my filth. I'm coming with my disgrace. I'm coming with
• 58:53
  Speaker 6: my iniquity. Look, I'm in the middle of it and
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: I can't redeem myself out of it. I don't have
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: any hope. I hate this. Please redeem me from it.
• 59:01
  Speaker 6: And if you come with your guilt, you can't keep sinning.
• 59:05
  Speaker 6: It's a purifying thing. And so don't, just a little
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: sum up. what I'm saying is, don't wait a day.
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: Don't wait two days to repent. Don't wait a week.
• 59:16
  Speaker 6: Don't wait, don't even wait a second. Go quickly as
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: fast as you can to the Lord. And if you
• 59:22
  Speaker 6: fall back again, go fast as you can back to
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: the Lord. Go as fast as you can to the
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: Lord every time. And you'll see that there'll be victory
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: and victory and victory.
• 59:33
  Speaker 7: Amen.
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Give our speakers a round of applause.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.