Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Bobbie Jo Stinnett - The Pregnant Massacre

Transcript

Bobbie Jo Stinnett - The Pregnant Massacre · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Before we start today's episode, we want to extend our
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: thoughts to those being affected in the Ukrainian invasion. Russia
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: began a military operation in Ukraine, launching attacks on several cities.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: We record our podcast from the comfort of our own
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: home in Canada, and we cannot begin to imagine the
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: horrors being witnessed in Ukraine. It's reported that hundreds of
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: people have been killed so far in Russia's invasion, with
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: fighting widespread across the country. Our hopes is that the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: invasion stops with no more people harmed. To any of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: our Ukrainian listeners, we want you to know we are
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: with you. The world is with you.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Warning The following podcast contains crab content and an aerial
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: intendent or a mature audience listener discretion lies.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Hey, what's up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you are listening to Wicked.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: And Grim, a true crime podcast, and just like that,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: we're rolling. Yeah, we're here.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: How's it going to everyone? What's up with shaking? What's new?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: What's exciting?
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: What's a shake in a bacon?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: What's shaking bacon? We got some crazy stuff coming down
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the pipe for you today. Do we Holy Ding dang around.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Do we ever?
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I know what the title of this is. I know
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: absolutely nothing, do I Did you tell me anything?
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Uh? I think I did, But I don't want to
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: say it now because we're recording and it's just going
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to give everything.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Away because I was recorded or I was researching a Patreon.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: A Patreon exclusive case.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so I am very much not in the
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: know of what's going on in your world.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Well, let's jump on that real quick for a second.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: To anyone who doesn't know, we have a Patreon page,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: we sure do. You can go over and support us.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: It's in the show notes down below the description. You
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: can find Patreon. We do a Patreon exclusive episode every month.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Every month you can get ads.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Free in there a bit more often about just life.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and end this month, a really cool thing
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: dropped just a surprise, because awesome, why not, and because
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: we needed to make up a little bit for being
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: behind on something. But that's besides the point. However, Jacko
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: did a reading of Edgar Allan Poe's The.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Raven and it was awesome. It was epic, it was
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: very well done.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, if you want to hear that, you can
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: only hear it on Patreon. That's it. It's the only place.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so you better dive right in.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Better.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: We might as well thank thank our new patrons, yes,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: would you say?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Although, quick pat in our back because we are
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: recording a little earlier in the morning. What day of
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the week is it even Saturday?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't even know.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: We usually record on Monday night when it's like just
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: really hours away from the episode launching, so really only.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Two days early.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: We are two days early, but we are early.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: That is definite an improvement.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so patterner back for that. So if you join
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Patreon before the next episode and we don't announce your name,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: just know that it's because we recorded this early. We'll
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: get you in the next round.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So that being said, we have two new patrons this
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: week to thank, and of course, as always, they got
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: hard names. I think they do it on purpose. They're like,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: you know what, my name's hard So I'm going to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: join the Patreon Yeah, just to hear them squirm on
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: their podcast.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I know, because you were like, here, you can do
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: these and I was like, no, that's okay.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well one of them is not bad. The other one.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Your last name is throwing me for a major loop.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that right now, and I'm not even
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: going to tell you which one. I'm just going to
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: go for it on each one, give it my best
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: shot and let you guys decide which name.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Was the one, which name that you struggled with?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so first of all, the first person you
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: have to think is Carrie Emptage, so thank you very much,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: and the second one is Madison Grandclair. Thank you to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: both of you for being awesome, And can you tell
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: which one of you I had such a hard time
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: with them pronouncing your name.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: You delivered that very well. That you confidence, I like.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I think that was the key there. I'm like, I'm
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: just gonna do it well.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that honestly. Okay. It's so funny because a lot
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: of podcasts, like I'll be listening to and like I
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: have already looked up to how to pronounce something, and
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: they're like pronouncing it wrong, but they just deliver it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: It's like that they know, so then you don't even
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: really notice. It's like we announced sometimes we don't know
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: how to pronounce something and we shouldn't.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: We should just it's our self confidence.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm working on my self confidence.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, confidence is big, and you know it really helps
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: self confidence.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, seriously, yes, what a stein felt? Okay,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: what did you say it was? It's a stin of wine,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: stin of wine.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I literally have a stin full of wine, right.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Rose Rose all day.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I am totally gonna shout this out because this is
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: my favorite one ever. If anyone is in the Okanagan
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: area particularly, I think it's Oliver.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: It's Oliver. I was just thinking, Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there is a winery called Rust.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Were obsessed with it, fucking love it. They treated us
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: sobering and well when we were there, though, Like they
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: were incredible, and.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: The rose is delicious, so much so that when I
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: was at our local liquor store the other day, I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: found six Rose bottles that were in stock. I bought
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: them all, So there we go.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I do love their road, I love their wine. I
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: don't know if I would say it's like my favorite winery,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: but they're They're definitely one of the tops, that's for sure.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I love sand Hill, Oh that's Rantail, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: Cologna has my heart, yeah, but Rust is definitely up
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: there too.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: We do a lot of wine drinks. Well, you do,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: you drag me along, not that you dragged me along.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: I don't drag you along anymore because you actually really
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: it's freaking fun. Like if you don't think windering is fun, like,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: oh my goodness, I guess if you don't like wine,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: maybe it's not very fun.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: It's not like it's not like I think it's fun.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I enjoy it, but it's like I'm also like, I'm
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not into being a wine connoisseur.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this one's good, this one's That's basically how
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I am too, though.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but some people are like this one's acidic and
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: high notes of the emberg.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Actually, what are you supposed to do? Like almost gargle
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: the wine in or some shit. I don't do that.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I get it. It's just not for me, you know
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: what I mean.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: No, I'm like, okay, I definitely believe in like take
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: a sip and then take another sip, and then you
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: get like the true case the second sip, So I'll
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: like do that much. But then it's just a matter
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: of like do I like, like, can I see myself
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: drinking this? We have gone to? I think it's only
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: actually one winery where we didn't buy anything because we're like, holy,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: like this is disgusting.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they didn't update anything since like the eighties,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: including their like everything they used back there for making
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: the wine didn't.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Okay, I think this shop and the wine potpourri right, Yeah,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: it was popourry. Yeah, there was no popery tastes.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: There was plastic grapes hanging everywhere in a winery.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: It was we're saw real grapes coming in.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: We don't need to see plastic ones.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: It almost felt like we went back in time.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. And Chumanji that shit, that's just let's just say.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: That we do like wine, but I don't. I don't
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: think I would say like that I'm like a wine
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: snob or anything. I don't know.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I never said you're a snob. I said connoise sewer.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: That's completely different.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Wine turing is super fun. I just
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: love it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So anyways, this is how I cope and I get confidence.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Alkama hole, alkamohole. I'm drinking water. Can can water give
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: you confidence? I need to drink more water because my
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: skin so dress.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: If you pretend it's vodka, maybe.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go I'll do it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not an alcoholic, but I am a casual drinker
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and I do like drinks.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think. I think having a drink once
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: in a while is okay.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I do too.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: It's all good.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, are you ready to move on? We talked to me.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked a lot about at wine. We're gonna
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: make people want to have a glass of wine. Listening.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Well, if you want a glass of wine, feel free
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to join us. I definitely have a glass. Nicoles got
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: a glass of wine or water, but I've got wine.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So you can have a.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Glass of water or a glass of wine. Do your thing,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: do you or.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Whatever you want? You want to make. Kool Aid make
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: that fucking.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Cool God having a coolid forever.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Kool Aid's the ship. Although it's so much sugar.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: I know, I don't actually know if I'd even like
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: it anymore.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. I'm obsessed from try it.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's go look at us moving on.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the story of Bobby Joe Stinnett.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, that's the Ring and Nobels. This.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I am going to go in a limb here and
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: give you guys a warning, a trigger warning. We have
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: had some very brutal cases on this show so far.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: This one, I would not say is our most brutal
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: case by any means. Some of them top it, but
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: this one has a very particular thing that is very graphic. Okay, okay,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: regarding mothers, so fore warned.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Oh shit, Okay, I know what.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: This is very graphic. If you're a mother, you're probably
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: going to particularly be susceptible to this.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay, you did tell me about.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: This, I did. I gave you a brief description.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: You did, and I'm just completely forgot about it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yea, And I think I told you like a maybe
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a fifteen twenty second description. It wasn't a lot, so okay.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Stinnett was born on December fourth, nineteen eighty one,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and she graduated from noahday Holt High School Ingraham, Missouri,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in two thousand, so she's six years older than us.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: By the time she was twenty three, she lived in
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: northwest Missouri in a town called Skidmore, and she had
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: married her new husband, zeb which is awesome name, by
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the way. Don't hear something like that very often? So
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: total cool name. And after a year into their marriage,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: they were expecting their first child together. Right on the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: couple both had steady jobs making daily income, but together
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: they had a side hustle as well a dog as
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: dog breeders. They were breeding rat terriers, so like fairly
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: small kind of like Chihuahua ish like kind of sized dogs.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Not for me, I know, I was going to say
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: something that not for me, but well, obviously we like
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: big dogs.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: We have two huskies there we go. So my dogs
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: are dogs. You got to have the commandership. I get that.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Love dogs.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Uh. So they're breeding the dogs at their home in Missouri.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: It was a great mix for their love of dogs
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and earning extra income for their newly expected child on
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the way. Like everyone knows, kids take a lot of
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: money out of your walleme. So it was a good
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: way for the new happy couple to be, you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: as prepared as possible.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I wonder if we should breed dogs, but then
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I also feel like I keep every single one of
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: them so it might not go on.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a disaster waiting day.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I would with every single.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Every single one, we would have our first batch of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: puppies and you would name them all. You would reject
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: anyone to come look at them, and then that's the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: only batch we would ever have, because we would understand.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: A bad idea have ten dogs or six dogs, and.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: We would be bob sledding to work even in the summer.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: So amazing, No, it doesn't. That sounds like a disaster,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: especially with our dogs. Anyways, moving on, so Bobby even
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: attended some dog shows she met other breeders, one of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: which was a woman named Lisa Montgomery. Lisa and other
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: breeders at the show and talked to her about, you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the whole dog loving thing, the whole community and everything,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and introduced hers to some more popular forms online where
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: she could meet many more like minded individuals and where
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: they could continue to keep in touch. So she spent
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of her free time chatting online in those
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: newfound forums. One form that she was very active in
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: was on a form called rad Chatter, and this is
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: where she encountered another form user named Darlene Fisher, who
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: lived in Kansas, about four hundred and fifty miles away.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: The two women began chatting a lot, sending messages back
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and forth regarding their dogs, but also sharing in their
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: experience as soon to be mothers as Darlene was also expecting.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so it's like, you know, two things in
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: common right there.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly, So it's a good reason to start chatting with
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: someone like that, right It's I mean, honestly, it's easy
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: for expecting mothers to get caught up in like the
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: conversation of your child. It's something that literally takes over
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: your life and your body by this point. So finding
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: someone to like listen about all the hardships it can
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: be a relief. But honestly, finding someone who is currently
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: living through the exact same thing that you and can
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: relate to you, it's like far beyond So I can
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent understand her wanting to chat with someone
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: just like that.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, it makes total sense.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: So Bobby talked to her about her pregnancy whenever she could,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and do the excitement on her with her new online friend.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Everything it just lined up right. Sorry, I kind of
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: word that weird. With the excitement of her online friend.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: It's just everything lined up right, and it was just
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: perfect for her. It's exactly what she needed. That's what
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. Sorry, I'm a little distracted, So
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like taking off my sweat.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I was distracted, why, I thought, because I was like,
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: well done, how are you doing that?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Sorry? I fumbled at the end. So Darlene loved children,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and she would happily open up and listen to Bobby,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: all while engaging in her experience with her current pregnancy
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: as well. But the conversations didn't stay restricted to their
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: pregnancy experiences. Both shared love for the same breed of
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: dog as I already mentioned, and Bobby was happy to
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: advertise her dog breeding business whenever she was granted the opportunity.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Their business was called Happy Haven rat Terriers, That's what
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: they called it. So she told Darlene all about how
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: they had spend so much time breeding and caring for
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the dogs. They would find homes for dogs every week,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and plenty of people came and went, bringing their own
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: new family edition home with them, which is kind of
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: cool because it kind of coincides with the whole pregnancy thing,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Like she's watching dogs give birth all the time like that,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and having the rights and families bring their their new
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: puppies home. Now she's got her own new addition on
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Sort of families with a dog or a pet, you're
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: also out of in addition to your family. Absolutely.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's it's kind of a neat little parallel there,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And honestly, that's why on the day of December sixteenth,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four, she was happily happy to open
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the door and welcome her online friend into her home
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to pick up a puppy of her own, like the
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: new person she just met, Yes, Darlene. Okay, However, Darlene
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't there for a puppy.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Though, Well, yeah, because didn't Darlene breed her own supposedly, No,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: she was just interested in the breed.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, but Darlene was definitely not there for
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: a puppy. In fact, that person's name wasn't even Darlene
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Fisher at all.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Oh shit.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: That person's name was Lisa, the very same person she
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: had met at that dog conventioner Montgomery. Yes, okay Montgomery.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: When you said that name, I was like, holy, that
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: is like rings a bell that name to me, because
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: you think I've looked at this case a little bit.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we're about to talk all about Lisa Montgomery.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I don't want to.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: You see the conversations Bobby was actually having online though
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: with Durline weren't exactly true because clearly it's Lisa, right. Yeah,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: but most like most of it wasn't true. Not that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: like some of it wasn't true, Like damn near all
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of it wasn't true at all.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: So you're just making up all this this stuff.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, Holy heck, because she.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Knew from mating her probably.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: What she want did yep. Now Lisa all along wasn't
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: even pregnant. She had been pregnant before, so she knew
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: all about the experiences of it and could you know,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: carry the conversation just fine, and she wasn't even interested
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: in in a puppy. Lisa was interested in something else.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Keep it would sorry, would she have recognized Lisa she.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Did not know? Oh, okay, so it could have been.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know how their interactions were at that. I
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: keep wanting to call it a convention. I don't know
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: if it was a convention or like an expo or
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: whatever I mentioned it earlier, the exact terminology. But yeah,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know to what extent their interactions were, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know the time period from then to now.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and Lisa might have just been like hone
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: in on her and more interested right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so regardless of Once Lisa made the long drive
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to Bobby's house, she walked up to the door and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: was greeted happily by Bobby. She let her in and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: began a conversation about the puppies, but as Bobby turned
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: her back to guide her guests through the house and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: towards the dogs, that's when Lisa struck.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: No.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Inside her coat, she carried with her a nylon rope
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and a knife. She waited until Bobby was distracted, and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: then wrapped the rope around Bobby's neck and hold tight totally.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: The struggle to save her and her child's life began,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: but Lisa was on her back and wasn't giving her
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: any ground. Bobby struggled as they fell to the ground,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: but ultimately she couldn't defend herself and was strangled to
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: death by Lisa Montgomery.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, okay, I actually don't think I knew
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: that she killed her.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, I'm gonna touch on that here in a second.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Just just hold that thought. This is literally the only beginning, though,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: because some of you just said the horrendous acts Lisa
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: would commit, though, like, yeah, it gets worse. She was
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: there for another reason. Let's say that she had recently
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: been online watching and studying c sections and how they
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: were performed, so she quickly repositioned Bobby so she could
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: get to work on the reason she was there, her child. Now,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to touch on what you just mentioned, this is a
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: part up for contention. I couldn't find any solid facts
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: on it, but the time frame between Bobby being strangled
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and being cut open, there is a very real possibility
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that she wasn't yet deceased, and Lisa performed her next
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: actions on a live victim.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, I mean I almost think it would have
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: almost had to be because like if she's dead right away,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: like the baby, doesn't the baby die? I mean, I
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: have no idea, but well, that's the thing. I'm not
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: getting aucyen either then exactly.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So she hasked to perform that sea section very quickly. Yes,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: if the baby isn't.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Getting oxygen, Oh my gosh, this is just okay.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And Lisa is no surgeon. For the record, Oh.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Shit, this is just like why I literally never want
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: anyone to come to my house.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, people are fucked. People are fucked. Because Lisa
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: then took the knife that she had in her jacket,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and she began to cut the pregnant woman's belly, first
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: through the skin, then the muscle and tissue, and eventually
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: through the unborn child's womb.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Holy heck, yeah yeah yeah.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: So that's why I said a trigger warning at the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: beginning of this episode, because it may not be the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: most horrendous thing we've discussed, but oh my god, that
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is horrendous. It's a lot, and it is graphic.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: It stressed me out.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I was stress eating Reese's pieces about cups all day today.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Yea laughed because of you.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: We had a giant bag of many ones. I ate
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: half of it researching this case. I can't I need
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I did need it. And now you know why I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: have a giant stin full of wine right now.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm sweating, okay, and now.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: You know why I took off my sweater. I feel
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you trust me. This is brutal, so soaked in blood,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and I mean soaked in blood. Lisa pulled the child
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: from Bobby's stomach. She pinched off the umbilical cord, severed it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Held the child close to her, and she felt the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: heart beating as it began to breathe. It survived, which
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I love.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: But okay, I love, but I also like, dang, I
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: mean the baby has to survive, yes, like the mom
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: is not surviving right, Like there's no like miracle that
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: happens there.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Or I'll tell you in a second. I'll tell you
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: in a second. I got a couple more things to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: get through here, just very brief. So Lisa got to
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: her feet, pressed the against her chest and hit it
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: under a jacket, the jacket she was wearing, and abandoned
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Bobby laying on the floor of her own house, cut
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: open in a pool of her own blood, while Lisa
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: just escaped and began her long drive back home with
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Bobby's child.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: That is just mind blowing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: It's disgusting.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: It is so disgusting.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So a few hours later, Bobby's body was found by
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: her mother. Bobby was supposed to pick her mother up
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: after work that afternoon, but failed to show up, so
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: when she called Bobby but was unable to reach her
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: after multiple attempts, she got worried and decided she would
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: stop by her house. Oh my gosh, that's where she
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: walked into the horrific scene of her daughter laying dead
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: on the floor of her house covered and I'm highlighting
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the word covered in blood and her grandchild missing.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that is too much. So she's dead, yes, dang.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Bobby's mother, Becky Harper, quickly called nine one one in shambles,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: explaining how it looks as if Bobby's quote unquote from
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the nine one one call, Bobby's stomach exploded and there
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: was blood everywhere.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, so well, because I bet the mother could not
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: even fathom what the freak actually happened.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Because this is absolutely horrific, Like, who the.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Fuck would ever do something like this?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: There's so many firsts in this episode that I it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: it makes my head spin. Even when we get later
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: on into like the investigators and stuff, it's like they're
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: just like, we don't have shit to deal with this,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Like what we'll touch on that? Oh yeah, it really is.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: We've said unfathomable a few times already, and it's because
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it is. How the fuck can you do?
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: How else?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: This?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: So during all of this though, Bobby's husband, zeb was
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: at work, and during the call that he got, he
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: quote unquote broke down rightfully, so when he was told
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: what happened. Now, when emergency responders arrived. Bobby was of
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: course pronounced dead on the scene. And now in finding
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Bobby's baby, there was a small technical issue that they
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: ran into because, like I said, it's unfathomable. There's so
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: many firsts in this. At the time of this, I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: literally have the next word to hear. At the time
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: of the unfathomable crime, Amber alerts could only be issued
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: if identifiable information could be provided about the child to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: law enforcement, and as it currently stood, no Amber alert
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: had ever been issued for a fetus, which by definition
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: is exactly what they were searching for. A fetus is
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: an unborn child. Oh my gosh, this yeah, technically an
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: unborn child.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Mm hm.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Like okay, And was she almost ready to have the baby?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: She was eight months pregnant at this time, Okay, so
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: she wasn't too far.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Out, so the baby, Like, yeah, the baby would have
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: been able to survive hopefully. Well, I don't know, just
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: the ugh, okay, sorry, you're literally rubbing I know. I
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: just like can't. I can't even.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I can't on a scale of one to ten, I can't.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: In the scale of one to even, I just can't.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: That's how it goes.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, Like I'm just saying the baby is of age
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: that it could survive, but the fact that of how
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: it got delivered maybe not so much.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, there's a lot of questionable things within that situation.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: It could survive, but we don't know just yet. I mean,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of course I'll talk about that, but we don't know
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: just as yet if it survives. So first off on
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the investigators. The investigators in the case fought hard to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: have an exception made in the case for the amber alert,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and it was actually in fact issued for baby Stennett
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: because that's the only name it had at this time,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the last name. The last name. Yes. All the while
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Least was making the long dry back home to her
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: husband with a very much so a live baby. The
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: sudden existence of a baby, though, would generally be difficult
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: to explain when you show up at home with her
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: significant other, just being like, yo, I got a kid here.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: You got a child probably covered in blood and stuff
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: yourself like, holy yeah, Lisa, person can't be well.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: We'll touch on that too, okay. Lisa, though, had already
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: thought of this for months. Months. She had been lying
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to her husband and everyone in her small town. She
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: told everyone and anyone that she could that she was pregnant.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: She was pregnant, even if she didn't look it.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, yes, she even went as far as to going
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: online and printing out an ultrasound and total it around town,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: claiming it as her own.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Holy so did she even actually have her.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: She did?
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, So when Lisa got close to home, she called
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: her husband, Kevin explained, while she was out in the
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: nearby town, she went into premature labor and gave birth
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: to their new child, their new, beautiful baby girl, and
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: so she wasn't able to drive home because you know,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: she just had a kid, so he needed to come
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: pick her up.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So he did.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Him and Lisa's other children that they were living with,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: went and picked her and the newborn child up.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: From where the hospital I'm assuming for this to make sense, Well, she.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Claimed that she gave birth to the child at a
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: birthing clinic, but they I didn't write this down because
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it couldn't confirm it. But what I read what I
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: did find was they picked her up at a fast
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: food place.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, because that makes like so much sense.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So much sense. Uh so yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, investigators were desperately trying to figure out what the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: fuck was happening and who the fuck is responsible for this?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: They contacted the FBI, hoping that the baby could be
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: found alive, and they were worried that, of course, you know,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the baby had been taken across state lines out of
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: their jurisdiction, hence why FBI would need to take over
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: right now. It didn't take long though, before investigators began
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: to receive tips on the incident.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, good, good.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: One phone call came in from a woman who is
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: part of the rater Chatter online forum. She heard about
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: this because the Amber alert and the news was blowing
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: up about this.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, this would spread like wildfire really and it did,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: so just what is going on?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So this woman explained that she knew a woman
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: by the name of Darlene Fisher who was supposed to
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: meet with Bobby that same day. Now, according to the
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: online persona of Darlene, she was apparently from Missouri, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: investigators quickly found out that locating Darlene would prove to
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: be very difficult, as they couldn't even find evidence that
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: she existed. And this is, of course because she didn't.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Another tip came out of Georgia in which a woman
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: reported knowing a woman who had just brought home a
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: newborn child, and there were serious doubts of her pregnancy
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: regarding those who knew her, so the fact that she
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: actually brought home a child was extremely alarming. That woman's
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: name was Lisa Montgomery.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, so they were getting some good tips
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: right off the.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Back, they were, I like that. All while this was
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: being uncovered, investigators were scouring through Bobby's messages which they
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: found on online forums, and they took information from chat
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: logs that Bobby had with a woman named Darlene and
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: processed her IP address. It all matched with Lisa Montgomery
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: and they knew exactly where she lived.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Boom. So she'd been doing her research for months, but
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: she wasn't smart enough for them.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Mate, not near.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: That's good, let's get this baby home.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So it was December eighteenth, two thousand and four, only
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: two days after Bobby's death, when police rolled up outside
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Lisa's house warrant in hand. They went into the residence.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Lisa's sitting there holding their newborn baby in her arms,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: watching the news coverage about the murder and kidnapping in Skidmore, Missouri.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, and sorry did you say this was two days
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: since the incident.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Two days later, oh.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: Wow, just sitting there with the baby watching this on
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: the news, like are you kidding me?
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Yep? And I mean meanwhile, like her husband was stunned
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: with what's going on, Like why are police here? Why
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: are people barging in her door? As far as he knew,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: he had just become a first time father. I mean,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: clearly he was wrong, but that's as far as he knew.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the child was taken to a hospital and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: then placed in a neonatal care where DNA testing would
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: be performed and confirm the baby's identity, and then the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: car the cops charged Lisa Montgomery.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, Like I just feel like I have to say this,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: and I don't mean to be rude or anything, but
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: like you would a hundred percent know that I was
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: full of bullshit?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Would you not?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: There is absolutely no way that I could get away
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: with something like that. There's zero percent, yes, yes, zero yes.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: So I just I don't get it. I don't even
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: get how that that happened.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to sit here and say
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: that Lisa's husband was not smart. I don't want to
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: say that because I don't know. However, it could be.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: That or he was manipulated by Elisa.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: He was manipulated, or maybe he was just very trusting
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of her.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know, or he wanted a baby that bad too,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: and just exaquestionate.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: There are several reasons why he could be fooled into
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: believing it. So the obvious answer is just saying, oh,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: he's stupid. I don't know if that is the case,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to throw that out there. There
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: are multiple reasons, and I, who knows.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Almost feel bad for him too. I do, because, like
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: he is, I think, innocent in this, and you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: and he's going to get this baby that he thinks
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: is his baby just taken away from him too, yep,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: which is a bit sad.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So, once in custody and under interrogation, Lisa, who at
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: this time was like, I think she was aged thirty six,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: that is what it was. Sorry, I gotta look at
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: my notes. Yeah, age thirty six, she broke down and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: she admitted that the baby was not hers. She admitted
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to strangling Bobby Joe and cutting the baby from her womb.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Lisa was then charged on a federal level with kidnapping
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: resulting in death, which makes her eligible for the death penalty.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: It should be like murder, almost first degree.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Well, she was charged with kidnapping resulting in death, so
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there is that.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she planned to murder her, I assume.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's just the aftermath. It's just the footnote
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: sort of situation in her plan. She she didn't want
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to kill Bobby Joe. She just wanted a baby, So,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's arguable. It's hard to say, but anyways,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the United States federal government had only executed two other
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: women throughout history, both occurring in nineteen fifty three. One
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: was Ethel Rosenberg, who was executed for espionage in June
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty three, and followed by Bonnie Brown Heady
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: in December of nineteen fifty three for kidnapping and murdering
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a six year old boy. Holy heck, so she was
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the third added to that list. On October twenty second,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, the jury found her guilty and
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: a few days later she was sentenced to death. Getting
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: that that what's the word I'm looking for?
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Sentence y, there we go, thank you.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, I was thinking that.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Nope, brain fart. Sorry. So her execution date was originally
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: set for December eighth of twenty twenty. However, it was
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: moved to January twelfth, twenty twenty one, after Lloy contracted
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: corona virus, now just hours before she was due to
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: be given a lethal injection. James Judge James Patrick Hamlin
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: blocked the execution on the grounds of mental health, and
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: we're going to touch on those mental health issues here. Shortly, however,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court overturned the stay of execution and upheld
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Lisa's original sentence. Lisa, at this time was fifty two
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and was moved to tarot Hout Prison in Indiana, where
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: she received the lethal injection on January thirteenth of twenty
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: twenty one and was pronounced dead at one thirty one.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Am really yes, okay, I'm almost shocked by that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Why is that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Because a lot of people are sentenced
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: to the death penalty and never get it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Amazing, Yeah, that's true.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: My answer In.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Short, well, I mean generally a lot of people who
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: are sentenced to death penalty, they they sit on death
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: row forever and they generally die of old age exactly.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: She's been sitting there for what sixteen years, and she
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: was only fifty two at the time.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: But I.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Know I've had other cases where it's been longer though.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: But I mean, people do see the death penalty. They do,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: like I believe, under Trump's presidency it was the highest
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: rate of death penalty execution given out really, so I
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to say death penalty execution, but death penalties
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: execute it. Yeah, that makes sense, And it was actually
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of people petitioning this death penalty
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: because of the mental health thing, and we're going to
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: get on that here in a bit. But he didn't
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: overturn it. He didn't let it happen, and it happened.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: The death penalty was sentenced to her, and it was
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: given to her and it stayed there.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Oh. Boy.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Part of it, people argue, is because of the election
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: that was going on. This is very much so a
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: conservative area. A lot of people in this area wanted
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: to see the sentence carried out. If Trump overturned it
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: or whoever had the power and Trump approved it, he
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: might not have gotten those votes. And he was looking
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: for votes. So that's an argument people are saying I'm
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: not saying it's fact, but I'm saying that's what some
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: people are talking about and that some people are using
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: as their argument. So may that not have been the case.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Potentially she may not have seen the death penalty, but
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: that's a little bit more.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: But what she did in that state or whatever justified
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: the death penalty.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, what she her actions justified the death penalty. And
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: that's pretty cut and dry, the story of a monster
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: who you know, in a brutal fashion, killed a defenseless
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: mother and took the child in the process. But some
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: argue that Lisa was not necessarily a monster but also
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: a victim.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I can see that depending on her
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: history and stuff. But oh boy, what she did, like,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: holy heck.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Well, we're about to start talking on Lisa's history right now,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and just like many other cases we talked about on
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: this podcast, Lisa had a very dark and disturbing past
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: and childhood.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm very much thinking so when I feel like
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: she may be struggled with having a baby or conceiving
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: a baby, or losing a baby or something.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: No, she didn't she I believe she. I didn't actually
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: get into her previous children here, but I believe she
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: had four other children and she they were with her
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: at the time. Oh okay, But there is contention on
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that alone. Some people say that because her ex husband
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: who had the children with her, she had custody over
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the children, and he was bringing forward a lawsuit claiming
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that she was a compulsive liar. Now her saying she's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: pregnant was something he was bringing her to court for saying, See,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: she's not pregnant, she's a compulsive liar. So some say
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: she went out and sought out a baby to prove
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: she's not a compulsive liar to keep her other children
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: in this court case.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Because the person that she was with at the time,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: I think you had said that he was a new father,
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: like this was his first name.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, the one she was with at the time, that
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: was a completely different guy, and yes, this was his
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: first child. However, they were living with her other children,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: but this was his first child.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Now touching on Lisa's history, her backstory. As a kid,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Lisa lived with her half sister Diane, and they at
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the time Lisa was four and Diane was eight. Sexual
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: abuse at the hands of Lisa's mother, Judy and her
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: boyfriend was routine. In one documentary, Diane went on like
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: she's talking directly to the camera to describe a situation.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Good on her for being able to speak so strongly
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: on this. I just want to say that. But she
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: was describing a situation where a man was let into
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: their shared bedroom one night, walked into the dark room
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: undressed and crawled into the bed with Diane and began
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: to rape her.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Now I don't know how old she was at the time.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: She never said that, but she would have been at
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: most eight.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: That is so disgusting. Yeah, so disgusting. Yeah, and it's
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: the sister.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yes, it's her half sister. Sorry I should say that.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I forgot so as as she was actually reliving like
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: these fucking disgusting moments, she said how in the moment,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: she was telling herself she had to keep quiet while
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: it was happening because if Lisa woke up, it was
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: gonna happen to her too.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, are you kidding me?
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: That's what she said.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, my heart just sank to the ground.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: So right there, I just want to say, Diane is
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: our badass of the day for that alone.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: So Wow. Brutal. Now.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Diane was eventually taken away to foster care when their
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: father left, but Lisa was left behind to live with
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: her mother, and the abuse never stopped. Beating was not abnormal,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and Judy would even go on to tape her daughter's
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: mouth shut many times simply because she just didn't want
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: to hear her daughter talk anymore.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Yeah, I hate this case. I'm not
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: enjoying this.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Lisa claims she was trafficked by her mother and stepped
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: growing up to men who would come to the house frequently.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: In her adolescence, plumbers or electricians would come to do
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: work on the house, and Lisa would be their way
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of payment. A small room was built as an addition
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: onto the place where they lived, and in that room
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: is where she would be sent to earn her keep.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: These men would beat her, rape her, and humiliate her
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: for hours on end.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Holy shit, this is too much.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Now, this is where it gets a little bit controversial,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: not controversial as in this is crazy shit and holy
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: fuck controversial? On did this happen? Is it true? Much
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of this information on rape came out only during Lisa's
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: trial in the later years after she committed the crime
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: against Bobby, not saying that the abuse as a child
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: didn't come out. That is very much so corroborated with
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: her half sister and stuff. But the severe rape in
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: her adolescence is what came out later on in the trial.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: So many seriously believe it was a last ditch effort
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: for a plea of insanity or some other plea deal.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: But others disagree. Some who are close to Lisa, like
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I said, like her half sister, you know, knew of
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the struggles she had already gone through. One another one
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: being a friend she actually made in prison. Her name
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: was Toby, and she recalls the story that Lisa had
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: told her and her stepfather, Sorry told her about her stepfather.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: That sentence didn't make me sendse of it. So her
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: stepfather grabbed her by the hair and began beating her
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: head against the concrete in the driveway. And because of this,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Lisa was convinced she received brain damage.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that wouldn't be surprising. Mm hmm, that's pretty horrific.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, this is also corroborated by experts who examined
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Lisa after her conviction. They concluded that she had long
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: been living with psychosis, bipolar disorder, and post traumatic stress disorder.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: So brain damage not so much, but definitely mental issues.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: You know, mental health was not the greatest. Many of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: her lawyers on her legal team argued her mental health
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: problems began before she was even born. According to an
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: interview with her father, her mother, Judy, drank heavily during
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: pregnancy and that their daughter, Lisa was born with fetal
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: alcohol syndrome, a statement that multiple medical experts have gone
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: on record and given statements on agreeing with that diagnosis.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: So you have someone with fetal alcohol syndrome, psychosis, bipolar disorder,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and post traumatic stress disorder.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: The death penalty, oh boy, Okay, before you said all
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: this last thing, these things, I was like, okay, I
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: mean her child, it is her terrible.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Then I was like, I don't understand how that makes
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: her go to like cutting out a baby. But then, okay,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: this is making a bit more sense, I suppose. Well.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: A lot of people argue that the death penalty for
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Lisa was just far too much. They literally are saying,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: you're condemning someone who can't even fully grasp what they
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: have done. She needed help, yeah, or they can't even
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: grasp the consequences of what they're presented with. Like she
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Their argument is she can't even understand she is getting
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: the death penalty, Like she almost has the mind of
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: a child at this point, is what people are saying.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that is fact or fiction, but
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that is what many people are talking about.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean I can see that, but it's like
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: she still is like living her life and a mom
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: to four kids, and like had partners and stuff. So
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: was she really.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: At that level, Like I don't know, you know, to
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: this day though, like it's it's a topic up for
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: debate for a lot of people. Did she commit a crime, yes,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: and very horrific crime, And like those who fought against
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: the death penalty believe that she shouldn't be sentenced to death,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: but maybe at least sentence to life because yes, she
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: committed a crime. Yeah, she just doesn't quite grasp the severity.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: But others see a difference or differently, and that the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: sentence was just that is tough. There's one officer in
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the documentary that a statement he gave was saying that
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: he believes the mental health the or sorry not the
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: mental health the sexual assault card that they're trying to
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: play in the later parts of the trial, he thinks
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: it's actually demeaning to those who have survived sexual assault,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: because just because you've been sexually assaulted doesn't mean you're
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: going to turn into a monster like this. I'm not
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: quoting him directly, just for that record out there, but
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: he is saying, like, you know, people who survive sexual
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: assault can live normally. They can be great and amazing people.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Just because you're a sexual assault survivor doesn't mean you're
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: a monster like Lisa.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Well, and that's exactly what I was thinking before you
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: hadn't said all like the mental health issues that she
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: did have, Because I was like, how does that make
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: like you go do this like cut out a baby
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: from someone. I was not understanding it at all. I
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: almost said something, but I was just waiting, so, yeah,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: that makes sense. Oh my gosh.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Well, and Lisa in interrogation or I don't know exactly
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: where it was, but in conversation with authorities, at one
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: point she said I'm.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: A monster, huh, which is like her realizing what she's done. Yes, which, oh, okay,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: this okay. I think I had this case on my
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: list too. At one point, I'm like, glad that you
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: did this.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I I thought this was a cut and dry case.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I thought this was a person who went after someone
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: took their child, got caught and was sentenced to death
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: and that was it. And then I learned of Lisa's history.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: I thought it was just a woman who just wanted
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: a child.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: That person thought, yeah, initially too, but there is.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Clearly much more than that.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: It goes deep.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: It goes very deep at Lisa. Aside as for the
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: baby who Lisa took from Bobby Joe, she did survive.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Her name is Victoria, Victoria Joe Stinnett. She was placed
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: back in custody of her father, Zeb Stinnett, after being
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: given a clear bill of health from the hospital. It's
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: been emotional, I said, deb had said in a statement,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and he also said this, but I just look at her,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: pick her up, and that usually does it. He goes
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: on and he continues and he calls his daughter a miracle. Now,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: a final thing I want to add to this episode.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: As we're all crying, okay, I'm.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Going to make you maybe cry in another way. Whether
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: you agree that Lisa's sentence was just or not, the
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: fact remains she killed Bobby Joe stinit And every time
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Victoria celebrates her birthday, it will also be the anniversary
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: of her mom's death, the slaughter of her mother, every
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: single year for the rest of her life. And that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: is because of the actions of Lisa.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, you went there, and that is the story of
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Stinnett. Holy brig, I'm literally sweating from this one.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, I'm very uncomfortable right now because that's so sad. Okay,
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: So what when year did that happen? Like, how old?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Two thousand and four? Okay, so we would have been
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: like grade ten in high school?
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, yeah, hmm. Interesting in two thousand and four, okay,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: so that's like teen or so that's how old she
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: is the little girl about that? Yes, yeah, wow, oh
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: my gosh.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I would imagine that surprise birthday parties are not something
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: that she wants in her life, and rightfully so, yeah,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: but I also.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Feel like, I don't know, there could be joy in
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: her birthday still, yes, but.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: If there's not, I can completely understand it, you know
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: M hm.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: So that's that's a heavy fucking case. If you made
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: it all the way through. Good on you wow, because
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: that was brutal. I spent a lot of time pacing
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: while researching this episode.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, I can okay today you were so uncomfortable. Yes,
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: And there was even a time actually where you'res like
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: came up and needed a hug.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: Is that because of this?
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's a fucked up episode.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: I can't, like, I totally understand going through being like, yes,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: you should be given the death penalty and sort of stuff,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: if you believe in it or not. But I'm just saying, like,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: those actions under that law, she should be given the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: death penalty. That is a domino effect that you did
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: what the loss says you can't do, and if you
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: do that, you get this. That's straightforward in black and white.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean by saying that. So, yes, she
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: should be given what the law says. Then all of
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: a sudden, this whole undertow of her backstory. I was like,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: what the fuck? Because I know people in my personal
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: life with fetal alcohol syndrome, and I can see how
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: it's like they don't understand things, they don't grasp things,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: and I can't imagine them understanding the actions and consequences
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: of such a severe situation.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, I am like so on the fence. I'm
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: still processing all of this.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I honestly don't know, but I'm the same.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's so difficult, and it's very difficult.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Her sentencing and her death is very much so up
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: for debates.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: And it just happened last year, last year, barely a
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: year ago, which is wow. I don't even remember that.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: I don't remember that being in the news or anything.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: It must have been.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I think it was overshadowed by elections and such, but
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I would imagine it was in the news a bit.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, huh, Okay, well well done, I think in presenting that.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you. If you guys want to check us out
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: on social media, we have all our links in the
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: show notes the description of this podcast. If you guys
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: feel like being generous, giving us a rating that really
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: helps out the show five stars please, five stars would
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: be amazing, even if you want to be constructive. We
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: appreciate that, but doing a write up is even better.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: And yes, we do read every single one, positive or negative,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: so please be nice. Yeah. Also, we have Patreon, we
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: got a website, we got merch check it all out
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: and show notes below, and of course until next episode,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: stay wicked,