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2. Nazia Ansari - Inclusivity Education · Learn Literacy Podcast

• Cheryl Urbanczyk: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Learn Literacy podcast, where we support the cause of language for life by teaching the structure of the language as it is to the student as they are. Today, I'm very excited with the practitioner profile, and I'm joined by Nazia Ansari from England. And I look forward to our conversation and learning about her OG journey ⁓ the ⁓ important Orton work that she does. So welcome, Nazia. Thank you for being here. Nazia Ansari: Thank so much, Thank you for having me. Cheryl Urbanczyk: you're welcome. Well, why don't we just start with your OG journey? When did you first hear about Orton Gillingham? How did you get to where you are now? And I should share with everyone that you're a fellow in training, which is a very exciting yet stressful place to be. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yeah, thanks for asking that, Cheryl. And I think my OG journey was, it was an interesting one and how I came onto it because after I finished my master's degree, I sort of felt like, okay, I'm happy but I want to do something more. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: point I was working with students ⁓ in terms of teaching them written expression, how to write essays and, with their literature books and all this characterization and themes and all of that. ⁓ And I have always somehow deeply been involved in supporting, students with learning differences as far as their literacy is concerned. And at that point, I have dear friends and ⁓ mentors and I often will would turn to them to say, know, what should I do? What do you think? So I remember opening up a group chat with my two friends and my husband and saying, okay, what do I do now? And they said, Orton Gillingham, Orton Gillingham. And I was like, don't know much about it, but I trust you wholeheartedly. And so I signed up for my associate course. And the first day I sat in that first session, I was hooked. Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ neat. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: And I remember seeing the fellow and thinking when I grow up, I want to be just like her. ⁓ enough, I think everyone I'm diehard OG. And it interesting because, yes, I'm currently in the UK, but I'm originally from Kenya. And in neither of those regions at the time, I mean, now there's knowledge, I guess, about OG in Kenya. Cheryl Urbanczyk: with it. you Nazia Ansari: in the UK it's still growing, but at that time there was very little knowledge, so I'd never heard of it before. So it a pretty ⁓ move for me to be going into something where just my background didn't know if makes sense or potential, students that I work with, like who am I going to access? But it has just been, I think that was my journey. And so I did my associate and Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Right. Nazia Ansari: Shortly after that, I just jumped into my cert because I just, wanted more, I wanted more, I wanted more. And it was in the beginning of my cert that I was sitting and thinking, I wanna train to be a fellow. And it was really hard for me to find a fellow to mentor me. But I think that was just life's way of saying slow down. Because my keenness to go... to become a fellow almost robbed me from enjoying the cert experience. I very quickly had to say, stop, Nazia. ⁓ the time comes, we'll think about it then. Just savor everything you can for these two years. And so sure enough, did my cert and just at the tail end of it, I managed to get someone to mentor me as a fellow in training. And so that's where I am right now. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, it's just, think, been... I think that it's grabbed me for sure and it's kept me, yeah, definitely. Cheryl Urbanczyk: I think that's so true and is that experience of falling into the OG black hole takes us all over. I remember when I started my associate training, that was one of the things that the fellow said that you a lot of people just fall into the OG hole and stay there. And I think one thing that's similar to us in our journeys is the seeking of training Nazia Ansari: Thank Cheryl Urbanczyk: I'm in Canada, in Toronto area, you're in England. We're both in places where is common. So I think you probably had to take training through someone in the States, is that right? ⁓ there's nobody there. So you might be the first fellow in England, which is so exciting. Yeah. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yes. No, no. mean, when I was doing my course, you know, mean, there's no fellows. There are no fellows in the UK, no fellows in Kenya. And so when I was doing my CERT course, ⁓ I'd be, up until late. It was like, bedtime, my family's gone to sleep. ⁓ And now when I'm doing my FIT training, one of the courses, Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: took me until four o'clock in the morning because it's just geographically, ⁓ so I mean, all of my training trainings have been done with overseas fellows because there are none in this region. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Well, the brings so much fruit and I'm sure your students are really seeing that. So ⁓ I you have a platform called Inclusivity Education. ⁓ Would you share about that and how you're using OG in that way? Nazia Ansari: Mm-hmm. No, thank you for asking about that. So inclusivity education is really it is my my business. It's where I have been working with students and I started inclusivity education after moving to the UK just because when I was in Kenya, I was sort of working more freelance. But after coming to the UK, we sort of said, look, I've got to give this a little bit more structure. I don't want to just be this freelance, sort of. just person, right? But I've always worked within, it was, guess, giving the work that I do some identity, I suppose. ⁓ so initially I was working just as an inclusion consultant in terms ⁓ of students who have a significant discrepancy between their chronological age and their academic achievement. And so these students could ⁓ be a... a grade six student who's got the academic ability of a grade one student, and this is across everything, right? And not only academic, the social skills and all of those parts that are significantly behind, but we can't put them in a grade one classroom. And so a lot of my work was about creating hybrid programs that they could then fill those learning gaps. while they're still sat in a grade six classroom, while they're still able to access things like PE and swimming and music, all of those. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: that's Right. So is this outside of school or you work in schools or both? Nazia Ansari: So I personally don't run the session, so I would consult and the students have a one-to-one support teacher that would then run the program and then follow up with me, which is something I sort of, that's something I've always done, but it wasn't the main, it wasn't my full identity. I think that's what led me to Ask In My Friends. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Okay. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: what more, what should I do? Because I didn't, it's very fulfilling, but there was just something. And so OG is, is, is now what I fully do. Fully, well, kind of fully, because I do have two or three students that I work with with the hybrid program. And so it's just, I guess, services that we offer. So I can support some students in the capacity of as an inclusion consultant, but as a practitioner, I provide OG services, I suppose. ⁓ I've got an amazing team of people working under me around the globe again, one in England, one in Kenya, one in Germany, and they're all providing OGs. So it's exciting. It's definitely exciting. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. So, yeah. So how do you find OG in that international perspective in terms of needs or community? how are you finding students? Or there's just such a natural need that they come up easily. Nazia Ansari: I love that you asked me that because Cheryl, it's been so mixed. So of course being Kenyan and I only moved to the UK in 2017, so I was still established, I suppose. in Kenya, there hasn't been such, there's been, I've had quite a bit coming of students coming in from Kenya, just through word of mouth and. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm, right. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: Kenyans are very open to something different, something There is a mindset of, yeah, it's new, I'm willing to give it a try. ⁓ so that's been pretty smooth to the extent that now I have a lot of professionals in Kenya saying, how do I train? How do I become a Noji practitioner? What are the requirements? What are the trainings? ⁓ And Cheryl Urbanczyk: Nice. ⁓ amazing. Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm. Nazia Ansari: We don't have or I mean, I'll say this, you I'm not sure if there are many fully trained sort of like associate, like members of the academy in Kenya, but there is an awareness of it. I'm hoping that will change and that there will be more people on the ground. So all the kids that we work with, we work with virtually. We have one practitioner, as I mentioned in Kenya, ⁓ but ⁓ she's Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Nazia Ansari: as you do that. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: I know people tend to fill up so fast. So when you work with people in Kenya, is it in English or is it in their language and you're applying the OG principles to support in a student language? Nazia Ansari: It's in English. So the language of instruction in Kenya is English. so English, it's widely spoken, it's spoken in homes, think, especially just as time's going by. I think there are very few children who know what their mother tongue is and they... Exactly. And in the UK, it's been a bit of a different story. Cheryl Urbanczyk: It is. Yeah. I think English is a world language, whether, you know. ⁓ how's that? Nazia Ansari: And it's one that we are working at and it's shifting, it's shifting. And at some point, I think I had like family from the UK and the rest were all Kenyans. And it was like almost saying, come on guys, there's this approach, it's called Orton Gell-Gell. I'm like, it works. But interestingly, because I ⁓ interact quite a bit on social media, ⁓ I once saw a comment saying, Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Right. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: Orton Gillingham is for American English. Cheryl Urbanczyk: interesting. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: And I thought to myself, that's interesting. And now I think it's about saying, guess what? Americans speak the same language. It's not a different language. It might be a different Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I wonder if that was more like a dialectical sound difference they were thinking. Like, okay, which brings me to a question. Do you have to choose different keywords for short vowel sounds? Because this comes up all the time in training and it's such a fun topic of conversation of who uses what words and how do you say it and all of that stuff. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ yes. ⁓ my goodness, yes absolutely. And it's really interesting because playing with the accents is a thing. Like I say orange is orange. So for me, that starts with an off sound, not with an or sound. And it's interesting because if I was to say to some of the students that I work with, and seated, sit and seat. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, or yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Sentence seats. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: Because while English is the language of instruction in Kenya, the accents are based around the Swahili language. And in Swahili, there are only five vowels. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Interesting. Nazia Ansari: kind of an ⁓ and ooh. But the ⁓ is sort of an ⁓ but it's sort of a sound between a, apple, ⁓ and u, umbrella, ⁓ I don't know how to describe it, but it's sort of ⁓ between there. And so the accents ⁓ influenced by Swahili language, even though ⁓ is the language of instruction, which is absolutely fine. And when we get to those, okay. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: Cat versus Hut. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Interesting or hut because I heard hut like the little house people live in like a beauty. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: Yes, so hacked versus hacked versus, and another one that's mixed up is versus hurt, like I got hurt. And because there's no R controlled in Swahili. It is a purely phonetic language. is an extremely transparent language. What you see is what you read and hear. it is, there's no tricks. It's nothing. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Wow, okay. Amazing. Mm-hmm. Amazing. Yeah. Wow. Nazia Ansari: exactly what you see is what you hear, what you hear is what you write and that's it. And so that's been, think every fellow I've worked with, I've come back with, how do I work around the accents so that my students are successful? And then knowing that, with practice they do or they ask and teaching students to ask. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Nazia Ansari: Okay, Ms. Nase, you said this, do you mean? Which one do you mean? Or do you mean this or do you mean that? And just creating that advocacy piece. But yes, as far as keywords are concerned, it is tricky, because sometimes they all sound the same. And in the student's mind, they're the same. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They do. Well, and then add the virtual component piece on top of it, I think makes it harder because when I transitioned to virtual tutoring and COVID, it was a challenge for some of the phonemic awareness activities, some of the auditory drill, SOS. No, I'm saying this with a... don't want to spell it for them, but this is what I mean, Nazia Ansari: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yes. exactly. So how do you spell cat? I mean cat with an A and I'm still like starts with a C and you sort of, know, might as just spell the word for him. No, absolutely. Absolutely no. And virtual, it is, I think COVID opened up people, we opened to that. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Exactly. Right. Mm Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, it's amazing. Yeah, it really did. Because like our timelines are a little bit different in terms of training and things because I did my associate and certified when virtual training wasn't an option. And so it's And then really, I think it opens OG up ⁓ as are doing to kind of this worldwide perspective or being anywhere. any place and it's it's amazing and fun. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, 100%. I I say if it wasn't for virtual, I would not reach any of the children that I reach because we have children working that we're working with from Kenya, which a lot of kids from Kenya. We have students who are working within Hong Kong, in Austria, in Germany, and in the UK away from where I live. I don't have any OG kids that I'm personally seeing who are in my city. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow. That's amazing. ⁓ Thank you. Yeah, well, rural areas in general, find, from my understanding of the states, especially in Canada, they're just ⁓ like, zero service because ⁓ very people live in rural areas and do this work. So, yeah. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, that's the thing is exactly so I find that virtual has enabled us to access children for all over the globe, but I'm hoping that it will encourage from all over the to get trained because I think it is lacking. is to just be, in the US and so a lot of other countries. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: don't know about it? Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ That's so true. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: or maybe think that you have to be US based to do the training. And we're sort of saying, no, you You just can't it anywhere because it's... Cheryl Urbanczyk: Exactly. Yeah, and I think there's a misconception too that to be an practitioner and having OGA certification is for the United States without knowing and understanding that there are practitioners who are certified with OGA. ⁓ in many places and as long as we're all following those curriculums, the principles, you know what I mean, all that good stuff, that's what we're looking for. It's not like a location-bound set up at all. Nazia Ansari: Mm-hmm. No, it isn't. And exactly, the requirements are a bachelor's degree. Like they don't say a bachelor's degree from an American university, no, they just say a bachelor's degree or a master's degree. And all. And as long as you can provide the certification from a university, it doesn't really matter. And I think it's so important that we're having these conversations just to demystify it almost and ensure that it is accessible to students. Absolutely. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm, completely. Yeah. So what are, are some like urgent and pressing issues that you're seeing in your OG practice, either with the tutors that work with you and the students that you have, ⁓ maybe you as a fit in your journey? Or maybe ⁓ you some Nazia Ansari: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Cheryl Urbanczyk: things that not the back of your mind like ⁓ this is my problem of practice what what are you kind of seeing in your ⁓ or like with the tutors they it any of it yeah Nazia Ansari: A problem of practice within my own practice, do you mean? Or within just my whole OJ? think just going back and apologies if I miss answer your question, ⁓ feel free to redirect me to it. But I think one of my biggest things and it's been ongoing is we need more OG around the globe. And I think that is my that I'm really struggling with. Not struggling with, but I'm working through and not working through to make peace, ⁓ but working in ⁓ trying to change happen. Cheryl Urbanczyk: No. you Right. Nazia Ansari: just think, I think also a matter of, there's also a matter of representation, ⁓ I have who ask me, know, ⁓ is there other, are there any other races that teach Orton Gilligan because they've seen all my fellows who are, Caucasian American women and ⁓ then they see me they're sort of thinking, on, the only person we've seen who's racially diverse is you. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: And the other day a student of mine actually said to me, need to show, encourage teachers from all races. And he had this whole speech about, diversity in Orton Gillingham. I think that's my big thing is, is, is right now trying to say, come on, we need more, I think also for children. It's so important for them to have that representation, for them to have someone who understands. I feel fortunate. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: that I am Kenyan and so I understand the Kenyan culture. So when I talk to my students, I get what their background is. But we need more people out there who understand, when this child has to advocate. Like, I know what advocacy looks like for a Kenyan child versus what advocacy looks like for a British child. And I know in a Kenyan, know, there's Cheryl Urbanczyk: Thank Exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: don't talk back to adults and you don't this and you try to work through those, those, those cultural boundaries and ensuring that. And I think that representation and understanding is so important. So I think that is my, my, my, my, my thing. ⁓ That's thing in terms of trying to create that diversity within. ⁓ As far as practice is concerned, I'd love to see more children in person. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it's a completely different energy. ⁓ ⁓ Nazia Ansari: ever. Yeah, yeah. I miss being kids in person. I just see kids online now. So that's something that I'm sort of hoping that as the awareness of OG grows in the UK, that we will be able to have more in person sessions because, know, there's so much more you can do in person, there's Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, it is, it is even especially kids like with more attention issues in their profile, I find, the online piece is really challenging for them. And I kind of don't like the phrase, well, it's better than nothing. Because sometimes, if they they need the literacy instruction, but it's just another, screen for them. So, yeah. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: Yeah. Yeah. And working on the handwriting is not easy. Virtue. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah, no, or holding up your notebook or, lot of these just pure tech things that ⁓ can really challenging. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think for me that's as far as one of the things that we're facing is, and I guess it goes hand in hand, doesn't it? As more awareness is created within the UK, within all these places and potential of having more face to face, hopefully ⁓ there is that potential. So let's see, fingers crossed. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah, on ⁓ that vein, like in schools in the UK, do they have like, do do multi tier systems of support or like a tier three? Like, do they bring in people with OG, or even structured literacy? If OG isn't well known, let's say structured literacy, what, how do they support kids in school? ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yeah. So they don't have any multi-tiered like response to intervention to run tier three. That isn't a system that's used here in the UK. And I'm hoping that familiarity will increase with RTI and that that can be implemented in schools. If students, as far as I know, if students are presenting with difficulties in reading and spelling, then more than often, Cheryl Urbanczyk: Okay. ⁓ okay. Nazia Ansari: they will be moved to a small group for some time, maybe for the first couple of years of primary. But typically what I see happening is there are lot of programs, pre-made programs, that are available to schools to purchase. And a lot of schools do purchase the ⁓ programs and they are typically run by a teaching assistant or someone of, ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: They just do that. Nazia Ansari: professional in the school. ⁓ I feel like a bit of change needs to happen there. Because I feel like if children have a specific difficulty we need, if they've got a specialized difficulty, we need a specialized professional. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love that phrase. That's amazing. I couldn't agree more. And I understand OG's perspective on approach versus program, but there's some realities of school where sometimes a program is helpful because teachers don't have the training but ⁓ we to have the training with the program and the approach to really support the students because ⁓ sadly profiles aren't cookie cutter. Nazia Ansari: to create. Exactly. Cheryl Urbanczyk: You know, they're a mix of this, that and the other. And it's that skilled practitioner piece. the thinking, the next step, diagnostic, prescriptive, all that stuff that's ⁓ so key. So. Nazia Ansari: of ⁓ yeah. And I love that you say that program versus approach. And I think that is critical. So I'm hoping that maybe that sometime soon that in the UK, they will have schools that have a reading specialist whose job is only reading specialists, not reading specialists, RPE teacher or anything like that. I think it is a much needed because Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: what ends up happening is the ⁓ children go, they will go in a small group back to phonics or back to the phonics groups, but that can only happen for so long and eventually it won't. And then, children go to high school and then they're still struggling. But what ends up happening is that the ⁓ final year of school, you sit a national examination. And if you struggle with reading and spelling and writing and all of that. then you're eligible for what they call exam access arrangements, which are you can have a scribe or a reader, extra time. But I feel like you sit your final exam in year 11. My argument is that that means that the student has 11 years of failure. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. ⁓ okay. Well, right. And how do you access life without someone with you who's a scribe or a reader or, and, like I, I ⁓ love concept. I think it's from Margaret Ross and like the linguistic competence piece. And, as our end goal of OG is not just learning ⁓ like how to syllable division or these grapheme phoneme correspondences, but that end goal. Nazia Ansari: That is the second thing Cheryl Urbanczyk: it's why I kind of adopted the catchphrase language for life, because how do you bring forth your gifts to the world, reach your potential if you don't have literacy skills? So, ⁓ yeah. Nazia Ansari: Exactly. mean, 100%. And I feel like, access to tech, like reader pens and all, I think they're great. And access to computers. But that should be your back pocket strategy. It shouldn't be the only way you can access reading or the only way you can communicate your thoughts. here in the UK, we are working with now a good number of kids, I would say. And they're doing it. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, exactly. Mm That's amazing. Yeah. They're doing it. I know. that's the thing. I think there's also that kind of misconception, like the remediation works, but it's on its own timeframe and in its own way. And that's where kind of, you know, with a public system, you do butt heads a bit because everything is kind of in its own box. You know what I mean? And where do you... Nazia Ansari: Sure they're dying. They're breeding out of the rain. ⁓ yeah. Yes, yes, we are. Cheryl Urbanczyk: fit kids that are kind of moving in different ways and that need more specialized help. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, you know, one of the things is in its own time, it's not a quick fix. It is a quick fix. Go to page one, go to page two, go to page three, program's done. We got the best that we could get. right, good luck. It's a long game. It's a long game. And you've just got to be in it for the long game. But when you're it and then you're out of it, you're fine. I'm not Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. No, no, it's not. Okay. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. Nazia Ansari: that you won't struggle with other things, but at least that piece is okay. Cheryl Urbanczyk: No, exactly. Yeah, well, and not to mention that piece restores that, mental health and well-being aspect of the child as well. It shows them, I'm capable, I'm not dumb, I'm not a loser, because everyone else can read and I can, and that is like immeasurable, right? Like, we can track progress, but that's a different type of success. Nazia Ansari: Mm-hmm. Yep. No, absolutely. 100%. I completely agree with you. So fingers crossed that more OG will happen on this side of the globe and that there's more openness, less defensiveness about it and less resistance and sort of look, no one's that schools aren't doing their jobs. They are. They're working so hard. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. what they have Completely agreed. Nazia Ansari: resources and hoping that this will have a couple of head teachers say, ⁓ wait, I want to find out more about this. Yeah. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Yeah, let me try this. Exactly. Because I think that's what all of us did. We went down that different path and found something else. And there we go. So OK. So. Nazia Ansari: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, so fingers crossed. Cheryl Urbanczyk: So, you're on your fellow journey. Do you have any other goals for yourself or inclusivity education? think, just the fellow journey itself is like, ⁓ with daily life family ⁓ is a lot, like, where do you see yourself, going? Nazia Ansari: It's a thing in itself. Yeah. You know, right now I'm enjoying the fellow journey and I'm looking at it as an opportunity for me to do my associate and certificate all over again because I, and ⁓ it is. Of course, I did my associate with one fellow, my ⁓ cert with another fellow and my Cheryl Urbanczyk: I'm like that. really ⁓ Mm-hmm. ⁓ nice, lot of perspectives, exactly. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: my fit trainings with another fellow. And it's just interesting to see all these different takes on this exactly. So I'm really enjoying that. And so my hope is that through my fit journey, and we're already getting there. I'm happy about it so far. We're going to be able to, that I'm going to be the representation of, ⁓ someone outside of the US is trained on this. Hang on. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Amazing. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: I can do it too. I'm hoping I can be the representation for Kenyans, for people in the UK to say, okay, come on guys, join me. Because it's no competition. I'm not gonna say, ⁓ I'm gonna keep this qualification to myself because there's no way I'm ⁓ be able to teach every dyslexic student ⁓ in my city. Forget the world. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. No, the world's big. Yeah. No, exactly. Yeah. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: So I need more help. And so I'm just hoping that the fit process will inspire other people to join OG because then they'll see, okay, it could be me too. So fingers crossed, fingers crossed. And it's getting there, it's getting there. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think you're so right about enjoying the process and the path because, just because of life, my time from associate to certified ⁓ fit, well doing the fit, it just it took a long time. But that that's how it went. But it's all good. So. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yes, no it has. Sometimes I wonder did I rush it because I literally went bang bang bang bang bang but it's almost but it's like I'm hungry I'm just like no I don't want to wait wait for ooh let's keep going Cheryl Urbanczyk: ⁓ nice. If I could have, I would have, but couldn't. exactly. ⁓ part of it is like the momentum too, like, okay, I'm in the swing of things. Let me just keep going. Right? ⁓ Nazia Ansari: Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly 100%. So yes, it's definitely been exciting. So I'm really excited about just what 2026 brings. hoping at the end of the year, I can see more Kenyans, more British professionals just training on OG. That ⁓ my goal. That's my wish. Even if it's just one or two people, it's fine. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Same here. Mm-hmm. Amazing. Well, it's like I believe in the ripples in the pond and we just keep doing our thing and we'll see the see the turnaround. that's good. ⁓ so as wrap up, we have a final question. What's a bit of advice that you would share about OG or dyslexia with people out there that is ⁓ Nazia Ansari: No, you're definitely brilliant. Cheryl Urbanczyk: that you think people need to hear or might've been important for you to hear at some point in your journey. Nazia Ansari: understand the emotional peace. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yes, I just, had to sigh because I love that because being a parent of a dyslexic, we've all, both of us work with many dyslexics. And I know I'm taking your answer, sorry, but like that's my thing with people. Like you can remediate any time. Like it might take longer or more, but it's that emotional piece. Okay, so you can finish your answer now. Nazia Ansari: No, go ahead. No, no, and that is literally it. They may seem like they're okay, but maybe they're not. don't. Cheryl Urbanczyk: I know. Nazia Ansari: overload the system because they were successful in one thing. Go, right, they were good. I'm going to add another three. It's your way to overload this child and then down the line, it's all going to fall apart like a house of cards. Just save. that emotional piece priority number one, emotional piece, priority number two. What am I teaching? Because these children that I work with, that you work with, that we all work with, Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Nazia Ansari: They know that hang on, I'm behind and they're trying to push and they're intelligent. They're smart kids. Cheryl Urbanczyk: They do. Very, very, and they notice everything. ⁓ Nazia Ansari: and they notice everything and that you've got to try harder culture, it's just not fair. Cheryl Urbanczyk: because they already do ⁓ day. ⁓ the work is so hard for them ⁓ we can't imagine because I was one of those people who probably just learned to read and write, picked it up from somewhere. But it's the work for them even when they can are being remediated and they can gain the skills. It's still so hard. Yeah. Nazia Ansari: They are always there. Every day. Every day. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, I'll give you an example. Today, today only, I worked with a student of mine and I think he was just here and it's only been a week and a half of school. And I said, right, I'm going to ask you to shift your book. we got to do that 90, 45. That was enough broke down completely. And it was like. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah? yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is hard. Yeah, yeah. Nazia Ansari: This is hard. This is hard. In my mind, I'm thinking it's just an angle. It's not that big a deal. But for him, it was the last straw. was yet another demand, yet another thing he had to learn all over again, on and off with this and this and this and this and this. And at that moment, it was like, I can't deal with this nausea, Cheryl Urbanczyk: And the last straw, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nazia Ansari: We had to say, okay, maybe we'll do a five degree angle, it's fine. ⁓ And understand that emotional peace and consider it every day. Definitely. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Exactly. Thank you. That's an amazing bit of advice to end with. So thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate your time and hearing from you. ⁓ If have some contact information, I can include that for people to reach out to you with questions or anything like that. otherwise, I just thank you. Nazia Ansari: things. Thanks. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Thank you everyone for being here and for listening. ⁓ Language for life is a real thing. We're here to help our students teach the structure the language as it is to the students as they are. So thank you very much. Nazia Ansari: ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Bye.