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The-Most-Chilling-FBI-Interviews：-Hearing-Jeffrey-Dahmer’s-Secret-Recordings · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

0:05
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Darmer murdered seventeen young men over thirteen years. He
0:10
Speaker 1: would cut open his victims for his own sexual pleasure,
0:13
Speaker 1: preserve their severed body parts, and towards the end, eat
0:17
Speaker 1: their thighs, biceps, and hearts. But how did this once
0:21
Speaker 1: apparently innocent child turn into one of the world's most
0:25
Speaker 1: gruesome serial killers. Did circumstance drive Dharma to carnage and
0:30
Speaker 1: cannibalism or was he born to kill? Jeffrey Dahmer was
1:05
Speaker 1: one of the most infamous serial killers of modern times.
1:10
Speaker 1: His name is synonymous with mutilation, necrophilia, and cannibalism.
1:14
Speaker 2: You think of the crimes that he committed, they're so horrific,
1:17
Speaker 2: you kind of think only a madman or somebody totally evil,
1:22
Speaker 2: evil incarnate would do this. But when you talked with
1:25
Speaker 2: jeff Dahmer, you just did not get this idea. He
1:27
Speaker 2: could be engaging, he could be bright, witty, he could
1:32
Speaker 2: make jokes.
1:35
Speaker 3: He was able to fool a lot of people.
1:38
Speaker 4: People that worked with him had no idea that he
1:40
Speaker 4: was a violent man. This was part of the real
1:43
Speaker 4: danger of Jeffrey Dahmer. He could join you or me
1:46
Speaker 4: at lunch and no one would detect that he was.
1:48
Speaker 3: A violent person.
1:50
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Dahmer, on the surface, was not a abnormal appearing individual.
1:54
Speaker 5: He's fairly good looking, he's well spoken, he was articulate.
2:00
Speaker 6: Never in a million years would I have guessed a
2:02
Speaker 6: homicidal maniac.
2:03
Speaker 3: To me, he's He's always been.
2:08
Speaker 7: Really a tragic figure, which is kind of hard for
2:10
Speaker 7: a lot of people to understand. But I don't really
2:12
Speaker 7: think of him as, you know, the serial killer monster.
2:14
Speaker 7: I just think of him as his kid who was
2:16
Speaker 7: spiraling out of control and nobody stopped him.
2:24
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer grew up in the small rural town of Bath, Ohio,
2:29
Speaker 1: a middle class boy from Middle America. Robert Wrestler, an
2:36
Speaker 1: FBI behavioral analyst and the man responsible for coining the
2:39
Speaker 1: phrase serial killers, was called in to interview Dama. His
2:43
Speaker 1: years of experience interviewing serial killers such as John Wayne
2:47
Speaker 1: Gacy gave him a unique insight into Dama's mind.
2:51
Speaker 5: There is no evidence with Geoffrey Dahmer of any severe
2:55
Speaker 5: mistreatment or abuse in his childhood. His mother had a
3:00
Speaker 5: metal problems, he was depressed most of the time, she
3:03
Speaker 5: slept a lot, and dropped out of family activities. The
3:06
Speaker 5: father was a PhD. Chemist and very busy and very
3:11
Speaker 5: intelligent man who spent a great deal of his time
3:15
Speaker 5: at work.
3:17
Speaker 1: Pat Kennedy worked the beat in Milwaukee for over twenty
3:21
Speaker 1: five years. Back in the summer of nineteen ninety one,
3:24
Speaker 1: he was assigned to the Jeffrey Dahmer case and spent
3:28
Speaker 1: six long weeks with him. He knew him better than most.
3:32
Speaker 2: He was a product of upper white middle class. He
3:34
Speaker 2: was educated. He came from a family of means, Yet.
3:40
Speaker 1: The fractures in his parents' relationship left a young Jeffrey
3:43
Speaker 1: feeling isolated. His interests turned to animals. He viewed them
3:49
Speaker 1: very differently to how most children look upon their pets.
3:53
Speaker 2: He stated, when he was a very young child, seven
3:56
Speaker 2: or eight, he had found a decomposed squirrel and the
4:03
Speaker 2: bones were there. He kind of took it apart. He
4:06
Speaker 2: said that he found a roadkill and he wanted to
4:09
Speaker 2: see what was inside it, like a raccoon or a dog.
4:11
Speaker 2: He brought that home. A dead dog that he found
4:13
Speaker 2: on the side of the road was hit by a car,
4:15
Speaker 2: cut that open and looked at the inside of that.
4:18
Speaker 1: Jeffrey started to do this from a very young age,
4:21
Speaker 1: he would roam the surrounding countryside looking for roadkill to
4:25
Speaker 1: add to his growing macarbre collection. His fascination with bones
4:29
Speaker 1: would continue into his adulthood, but he would eventually move
4:32
Speaker 1: from animals to humans.
4:34
Speaker 2: As he got to be about thirteen or fourteen, and
4:37
Speaker 2: he was coming into his sexual awareness that he had
4:46
Speaker 2: some kissing with another boy in the neighborhood, and he
4:49
Speaker 2: realized that he was attracted to boys becoming aroused sexually,
4:57
Speaker 2: and the cutting up of these animals.
4:59
Speaker 3: Somehow became matched.
5:02
Speaker 2: So what he did as a young man with animals,
5:05
Speaker 2: he eventually did do later on in life with human beings.
5:14
Speaker 1: John beckdef first met Jeffrey Darmer when they were at
5:17
Speaker 1: school together here at the Revere High School in the
5:20
Speaker 1: mid seventies. John professionally known as DIRF, has since created
5:24
Speaker 1: a comic book illustrating his teenage years with Dama Er.
5:29
Speaker 7: Well, he was he had a pretty rough time here,
5:31
Speaker 7: as did a lot of us.
5:33
Speaker 8: You know.
5:34
Speaker 7: He was the constant victim of harassment and abuse, was
5:38
Speaker 7: beat up a lot, especially early on. Later you know,
5:41
Speaker 7: they sort of got bored with him. But early on,
5:45
Speaker 7: I imagine he had it pretty tough.
5:47
Speaker 1: Dama discussed his childhood at length with Robert Wrestler. This
5:51
Speaker 1: is the first time these recordings have ever been heard.
5:54
Speaker 9: I was visiting.
5:58
Speaker 8: The evening and these so these three seniors from high
6:03
Speaker 8: school approaching learns, and I just.
6:05
Speaker 9: Had a feeling that something was gonna happen. Sure enough,
6:08
Speaker 9: took him a billy and wagged me on the back.
6:17
Speaker 7: When we got to high school. It was when suddenly
6:20
Speaker 7: he became this this uh an incredible freak uh, you know,
6:28
Speaker 7: with the drinking and.
6:32
Speaker 3: Erratic behavior.
6:34
Speaker 1: By this time, Dharma had discovered that drinking was one
6:38
Speaker 1: way to dull the pain of his confusion over his
6:40
Speaker 1: sexuality and his sinister fantasies.
6:43
Speaker 9: Did you have problems with daydreaming? Or you do kind
6:45
Speaker 9: of a treating school well?
6:46
Speaker 8: And in junior year, that's when I started drinking.
6:49
Speaker 9: So that's you ever called on a copper for that
6:52
Speaker 9: a couple of times? Yeah, you had promise that was fash.
7:00
Speaker 7: Obviously, someone getting drunk at seven in the morning is
7:02
Speaker 7: not a good thing.
7:04
Speaker 3: Showing up at school.
7:05
Speaker 7: Just wreeking of booze.
7:08
Speaker 1: Jeffrey was a lonely teenager who kept to himself. When
7:12
Speaker 1: he did become the center of attention. It was accidental.
7:16
Speaker 7: Well, I was on the yearbook staff along with a
7:18
Speaker 7: couple other of my friends, so we would go dahmer
7:21
Speaker 7: into sneaking into various photos for the yearbook, and one
7:24
Speaker 7: of those was the National Honor Society, which obviously he
7:28
Speaker 7: was not a member of, And when the advisor caught
7:31
Speaker 7: a look of it as we were pasting it up,
7:33
Speaker 7: he blacked his face out of the photo, which they
7:36
Speaker 7: then ran, which is sort of a symbol of his
7:39
Speaker 7: wasted youth, just this blacked out face, you know, the
7:43
Speaker 7: boy who didn't exist.
7:45
Speaker 1: Jeffrey's complex character meant that while seemingly happy to fade
7:48
Speaker 1: into the shadows, he also felt a desperate need to
7:51
Speaker 1: draw attention to himself.
7:53
Speaker 7: A bunch of us got together and raised put a
7:56
Speaker 7: pool in.
7:57
Speaker 3: Of thirty five dollars.
7:58
Speaker 7: I think it was for him to put on a
8:00
Speaker 7: performance at the mall of his seizures and epileptic fits
8:04
Speaker 7: and various acts of weirdness.
8:13
Speaker 1: Dirth also remembers stories of Dama experimenting with animals. His
8:18
Speaker 1: odd behavior was evident one fishing trip.
8:22
Speaker 10: Fish out of the lake, just a little sunfish, and
8:25
Speaker 10: took out a poga knife and slashed it to bits,
8:32
Speaker 10: and my other friend said, what the hell did you
8:34
Speaker 10: do that for?
8:35
Speaker 7: Dahma responded, I just wanted to see what it looked like.
8:41
Speaker 1: As a teenager, as an extension of his childhood fascination
8:44
Speaker 1: of dead animals, Dama began to construct fantasies of sex
8:49
Speaker 1: with dead or unconscious men.
8:51
Speaker 5: Dahmer told me that on one occasion, he had seen
8:56
Speaker 5: in the newspaper on account of a young man who
8:58
Speaker 5: was killed on a motorcycle, and he.
9:03
Speaker 9: Fell in love with the individual just.
9:05
Speaker 3: From the photograph.
9:07
Speaker 5: He actually went to the funeral home to view the corpse,
9:12
Speaker 5: but he became so aroused that he excused himself into
9:16
Speaker 5: the bathroom, where he masturbated.
9:18
Speaker 1: This was also apparent in his fantasy of killing a
9:21
Speaker 1: local junker.
9:22
Speaker 2: He thought he would wait in the bushes with the
9:24
Speaker 2: baseball bat. This guy would come by, and he'd balk
9:28
Speaker 2: him in the head and he'd have this guy.
9:30
Speaker 3: And he actually said he went out.
9:32
Speaker 2: And waited for the jogger one day with a baseball bat,
9:34
Speaker 2: but he didn't come by that day.
9:36
Speaker 1: The breakdown of his parents' marriage meant that eighteen year
9:39
Speaker 1: old Dama was left alone with his fantasies.
9:42
Speaker 7: His mom spled and his dad had already left, and
9:45
Speaker 7: he was left alone in the house. But the adults
9:48
Speaker 7: really failed him. There's no question his parents, as teachers.
9:53
Speaker 9: We were pretty upset by that breakup.
9:55
Speaker 4: I know it.
9:56
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was pretty obvious.
9:59
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
10:05
Speaker 1: And it was this that led to the death of
10:07
Speaker 1: his first victim.
10:08
Speaker 5: Damer told me that one fantasy that he had was
10:12
Speaker 5: that he would encounter a hitchhiker and he would be
10:18
Speaker 5: have a narrow waist, broad shoulders, bird chest, He would
10:21
Speaker 5: not have a shirt on, and he would have very
10:25
Speaker 5: little hair in his body.
10:26
Speaker 3: He would pick up.
10:28
Speaker 5: This hitchhiker and that they would have a great time
10:31
Speaker 5: together in all sorts of sexual adventures. He was driving
10:36
Speaker 5: down the road and he saw his fantasy hitchhiker.
10:43
Speaker 1: The subject of Dumba's fantasy was sixteen year old Stephen Hicks.
10:47
Speaker 1: Hicks was a free spirit who was hitchhiking to a
10:50
Speaker 1: summer festival. This was a common form of transport in
10:54
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies Ohio. Little did Hicks know who he would
10:58
Speaker 1: encounter in this calm.
11:00
Speaker 2: Out the guy home. They had access to alcohol, they
11:03
Speaker 2: were drinking. They got a little intoxicated. But when the
11:06
Speaker 2: guy wanted to leave, Jeff did not want him to leave.
11:09
Speaker 2: He wanted him to stay because he was lonely and
11:11
Speaker 2: else he was intoxicated. He said that when he tried
11:14
Speaker 2: to stop the guy from leaving, a little bit of
11:16
Speaker 2: a wrastling match broke out, and as they were rastling around,
11:19
Speaker 2: that's when Jeff grabbed a hand bire bell and smashed
11:23
Speaker 2: the guy on the head. Now, he said when he
11:25
Speaker 2: hit him, he didn't really he wasn't thinking I'm going
11:28
Speaker 2: to kill this guy. I just want to keep him here.
11:31
Speaker 1: Dama cut the body up and placed it in black binliners.
11:35
Speaker 1: He loaded them into his car and was planning to
11:38
Speaker 1: dispose of them when he was stomped by a police
11:40
Speaker 1: officer for a minor traffic offense.
11:45
Speaker 2: As he was writing him a ticket and came back
11:47
Speaker 2: to give him the ticket for crossing the yellow center line.
11:50
Speaker 2: He also, like any police officer, he took his flashlight
11:53
Speaker 2: and flashed inside the car to see if there's any
11:55
Speaker 2: weapons or any contraband, like any good cop. And he
11:58
Speaker 2: saw the five bag and the guy actually said, hey,
12:01
Speaker 2: what's that back there? And he said, Oh, it's just
12:03
Speaker 2: some trash. I was going to take to the domp
12:05
Speaker 2: that I just didn't get there yet, and the cop
12:08
Speaker 2: gave him the ticket for crossing the center line and left.
12:11
Speaker 1: This was the first of the many missed opportunities when
12:14
Speaker 1: Dharma could have been stopped.
12:23
Speaker 3: This is Dahmer's house.
12:24
Speaker 7: This is where he killed his first victim. He took
12:32
Speaker 7: it into this crawl space and apparently stripped the flesh
12:36
Speaker 7: off the bones underneath there, and when the cops went
12:41
Speaker 7: in there, turned his light on it and the whole
12:43
Speaker 7: thing lit up, ceiling, floor, walls, everywhere, just covered in
12:48
Speaker 7: dried blood.
12:50
Speaker 1: He then smashed the bones up with a sledgehammer, stood
12:53
Speaker 1: in the middle of the woods and spun in a
12:55
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degree circle, throwing the remains as
12:58
Speaker 1: he turned.
13:01
Speaker 2: He said, for the next couple of weeks he'd read
13:03
Speaker 2: the paper every day to see was there anything about
13:05
Speaker 2: this guy missing or anything. Never did, so he realized
13:10
Speaker 2: I got away with murder. I killed somebody and nobody
13:13
Speaker 2: knows about it. I'm gay and nobody knows about it. Again,
13:17
Speaker 2: from the very beginning, more secrecy became part of his life.
13:21
Speaker 3: It also tortured.
13:22
Speaker 2: Him, and that's kind of how it started and then
13:24
Speaker 2: it just grew from there.
13:27
Speaker 1: It would be nine years before Dama would kill again.
13:30
Speaker 1: Once he did, he would be unable to stop. Jeffrey
13:40
Speaker 1: Dahmer began to drink heavily after enrolling in college. His
13:44
Speaker 1: attempt to lead a normal life was not going according
13:47
Speaker 1: to plan.
13:50
Speaker 2: After he had flunked out of Ohio State for being
13:55
Speaker 2: drunk and then got kicked out of the army, he
13:58
Speaker 2: had a short stint down Florida, didn't last very long.
14:02
Speaker 1: With no job and no skills, but consumed with a
14:05
Speaker 1: desire to kill again. Delma went to live with his
14:08
Speaker 1: grandmother in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, trying to find sonace in religion.
14:13
Speaker 2: And he said when he first came to West Dallit
14:15
Speaker 2: he would go with grammar at to church on Sundays.
14:18
Speaker 3: He tried to read the Bible.
14:19
Speaker 2: He totally didn't do anything homosexual. He didn't try to
14:25
Speaker 2: get involved with any kind of gay stuff.
14:27
Speaker 3: He said, he really thought, this is the way to go.
14:30
Speaker 3: Religion is going to be my savior.
14:32
Speaker 1: For a while, Dama was able to control his urges. However,
14:36
Speaker 1: this proved to be the calm before the storm.
14:39
Speaker 3: An interesting thing that tipped the balance for him. Was.
14:43
Speaker 3: He was at the Wawatosa library.
14:46
Speaker 2: As he was sitting there reading a book, a young
14:48
Speaker 2: man walked by him and threw a crumpled up peoples
14:51
Speaker 2: of paper in front of him and walked by and
14:53
Speaker 2: Jeff took it, opened it up and inside and said,
14:55
Speaker 2: if you want to blow job, meet me in the
14:58
Speaker 2: men's room.
15:00
Speaker 9: That note throwing thing was kind of a catalyst, kind
15:02
Speaker 9: of a trip off. But it seems a way up here.
15:06
Speaker 8: Because that's when everything started falling apart.
15:09
Speaker 9: What does that mean to you?
15:10
Speaker 8: I mean this thing, it just was just sitting there
15:13
Speaker 8: sort of throwing out a challenge to whoever make sure
15:16
Speaker 8: enough was standard.
15:18
Speaker 9: He didn't go eating found again and he didn't meet
15:20
Speaker 9: up with.
15:24
Speaker 5: He said, that's at the stage for seeking more contact
15:31
Speaker 5: from a sexual side with young men, and that that
15:36
Speaker 5: led to homicide and that when on seventeen more.
15:40
Speaker 1: Times, incapable of relating to people, but desperate for his
15:44
Speaker 1: own brand of necrophilic sexual contact. In nineteen eighty five,
15:49
Speaker 1: Dama started to hang out in gay bathhouses where he
15:52
Speaker 1: would take his partner to a cubicle and drug them.
15:56
Speaker 3: He was a very selfish lover.
15:57
Speaker 2: He wanted to be the giver. He did not want
16:02
Speaker 2: to be the receiver of homosexual sex. Actually, he enjoyed
16:09
Speaker 2: oral and anal sex, but did not want anyone to
16:15
Speaker 2: perform anal sex on him.
16:16
Speaker 1: Sex for Thelma was a matter of obtaining and exercising
16:19
Speaker 1: physical control of his partner. But when word got around
16:22
Speaker 1: that he was drugging young men, he was banned from
16:25
Speaker 1: the local homosexual hangouts, so I resorted to using hotels.
16:29
Speaker 2: Jeff met an individual at a tavern and convinced him
16:33
Speaker 2: to come back where he had a room here at
16:36
Speaker 2: the Ambassador Hotel, and he brought gentleman back to his hotel,
16:41
Speaker 2: drugged him with the drug alcohol combination, and then Jeff himself,
16:48
Speaker 2: according to he blacked out. When he woke up in
16:50
Speaker 2: the morning, this person was lying next to him dead
16:55
Speaker 2: and was beaten about the face and the chest and
16:58
Speaker 2: the body.
16:59
Speaker 3: And Jeff figured that.
17:00
Speaker 2: He did kill him, but he didn't. He couldn't remember
17:04
Speaker 2: doing it because he was an alcoholic blackout.
17:07
Speaker 5: He went to department store across the street. He bought
17:12
Speaker 5: a very large suitcase or a small trunk if you will,
17:16
Speaker 5: and brought it up to the room and put the
17:20
Speaker 5: body in it, and actually had the hotel. Thus boy
17:25
Speaker 5: help him bring the body down to the street where
17:29
Speaker 5: he hailed a cab. The cab driver helped him load
17:32
Speaker 5: it into the cab and said to Dahmer, this is
17:37
Speaker 5: really heavy, buddy, what he got in here a body?
17:40
Speaker 5: And Dahmer said, yeah, I do, and that they both
17:43
Speaker 5: laughed about it.
17:45
Speaker 11: After the ambassador one that was that did you find
17:48
Speaker 11: that pleasurable?
17:49
Speaker 9: Or was that equally frightening? Was for what reason? Was
17:54
Speaker 9: that one fright?
17:55
Speaker 8: Because it was a totally land It was a total
17:57
Speaker 8: surprise to me that it had happened.
17:59
Speaker 1: Happened for the people of Milwaukee. It was just the
18:03
Speaker 1: beginning of a killing spree that would last five years.
18:09
Speaker 1: District Attorney Michael McCann remembers the time.
18:11
Speaker 4: Well Dahmer killed sixteen young men between nineteen eighty seven
18:17
Speaker 4: and nineteen ninety one. We had no idea that a
18:20
Speaker 4: serial slayer was operating in our city.
18:23
Speaker 1: From this moment onwards, Dama continued to kill. Sometimes there
18:27
Speaker 1: would be months, weeks, or even just days between his killings.
18:31
Speaker 1: After already killing four men, in August nineteen eighty eight,
18:34
Speaker 1: Darma made a fatal mistake. His fifth victim escaped the
18:38
Speaker 1: police were called and Darma was arrested for molesting and
18:42
Speaker 1: taking photographs of a thirteen year old boy. With the
18:46
Speaker 1: police and the court unaware of his grisly death toll,
18:49
Speaker 1: he was sentenced to do only twelve months in a
18:51
Speaker 1: low security prison. His defense lawyer was Gerald Boyle.
18:55
Speaker 6: He had spent first year in a very very uncomfortable
18:58
Speaker 6: environment of the county where he could only get out
19:02
Speaker 6: to go to work, a very hard way to serve time.
19:05
Speaker 6: So the judge gave him this very strong sentence, but
19:11
Speaker 6: nobody kick yess he had already killed four people by
19:13
Speaker 6: that time.
19:15
Speaker 1: Dumma's sentence was reduced after he made a desperate plea
19:19
Speaker 1: to the court, stating that what he did was deplorable
19:22
Speaker 1: and assuring the judge that it would never happen again,
19:25
Speaker 1: but it soon would. Dumma needed to get his own place.
19:33
Speaker 1: He moved from his grandmother's house to Flat two one
19:36
Speaker 1: three Oxford Apartments.
19:38
Speaker 2: So here's the building where it used to be. And
19:41
Speaker 2: now the city has done nothing with this, absolutely nothing,
19:45
Speaker 2: It just sits there. Fallum Now, the building was in
19:50
Speaker 2: this design. It was a rectangle, three story white stock
19:54
Speaker 2: l thirty six unit.
19:55
Speaker 1: Apartments Behind this door was a place for Dama to
20:00
Speaker 1: fulfill his fantasies and commit horrendous acts on others, a
20:05
Speaker 1: place of death and destruction. He would pick out many
20:10
Speaker 1: of his victims from gay bars.
20:13
Speaker 2: This area here is pretty much where kind of the
20:16
Speaker 2: gay area kind of starts. This place right here two
20:18
Speaker 2: nineteen was the place he liked to go for the
20:22
Speaker 2: They would have the drag shows right next to it.
20:25
Speaker 2: Sey Levie was another one of his favorites. As we
20:28
Speaker 2: go this way, there's there's a couple now. He was
20:30
Speaker 2: considered kind of a honey. I mean he was a
20:33
Speaker 2: nice looking guy. I mean people thought he was nice looking.
20:36
Speaker 2: And like I said, I wish I could be as
20:39
Speaker 2: lucky with women as this guy was with men. I
20:42
Speaker 2: mean he there's quite a He got laid a lot,
20:46
Speaker 2: and he didn't kill everybody that he was sexually involved with.
20:51
Speaker 1: Local bartender Tony Timer remembers Dama, well.
20:56
Speaker 12: Come to the back bar and he'd order a drinking
20:58
Speaker 12: and get a drinking and go and he'd sit in
20:59
Speaker 12: a he was in his own little world, or like
21:01
Speaker 12: he was always waiting for something, which obviously he was.
21:06
Speaker 1: It was here that Dama met Tony's good friend Eddie Smith.
21:11
Speaker 3: Eddie was such.
21:13
Speaker 12: A wild, crazy person and so you couldn't help it
21:15
Speaker 12: like him, which you know Dahmer did. And so they
21:20
Speaker 12: knew each other well, you know, well enough to make
21:23
Speaker 12: him comfortable enough to go into a house and take photographs.
21:27
Speaker 1: Eddie dreamt of becoming a model, and Dama knew all
21:30
Speaker 1: the right things to say. At one hundred dollars a session,
21:33
Speaker 1: it was easy money.
21:35
Speaker 12: Eddie would be sitting at the bar and all of
21:37
Speaker 12: a sudden, you know if Sometimes he would turn around
21:39
Speaker 12: and say, I gotta go, I've got to make some money,
21:41
Speaker 12: and I'm like, where are you going? And he'd just
21:43
Speaker 12: turn around and look towards the hallway and I'd see
21:46
Speaker 12: Jeffrey's standing right there, and I'm like, oh, you're going, okay,
21:51
Speaker 12: Well calling when you're whatever, you know.
21:54
Speaker 1: On Wednesday, the twenty fourth of June nineteen ninety, Eddie
21:57
Speaker 1: met up with Dama and was seen dancing with him
22:00
Speaker 1: at the Phoenix Club.
22:01
Speaker 12: He just left with Dahmer and never came back.
22:04
Speaker 1: It was only at the trial years later that Tony
22:07
Speaker 1: realized that the same quiet man who used to drink
22:10
Speaker 1: at the end of his bar was the same man
22:12
Speaker 1: who had brutally murdered his friend.
22:15
Speaker 12: The community was shattered, you know what I mean. People
22:20
Speaker 12: stopped coming out. I blew my life a parlor. It
22:23
Speaker 12: didn't just affect my life.
22:29
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just the gay community that Dama targeted.
22:33
Speaker 1: He was an opportunistic killer who was always on the
22:35
Speaker 1: lookout for potential prey.
22:38
Speaker 2: One of his victims was in the bus stop right here,
22:41
Speaker 2: right up here, as a young man from Upper Michigan
22:47
Speaker 2: who was just down here visiting, and Jeff Dahmer met
22:52
Speaker 2: him in the bus stop right over there in front
22:54
Speaker 2: of that McDonald's and convinced him to come home with him.
22:58
Speaker 3: That was the end of that guy.
23:03
Speaker 4: Some of the men that he victimized were homosexual, some
23:06
Speaker 4: were not. He would approach them and suggest that he'd
23:08
Speaker 4: like to take pictures of them.
23:10
Speaker 3: Would they come to his apartment.
23:12
Speaker 4: He had already prepared at that apartment a drug that
23:14
Speaker 4: he would induce them to drink.
23:18
Speaker 3: He said.
23:19
Speaker 5: Once he snapped the lock on the door and the
23:23
Speaker 5: person was in his apartment, he seemed to become more aggressive,
23:28
Speaker 5: more powerful. It was almost like a psychological transformation, and
23:35
Speaker 5: he became more sexually aroused.
23:39
Speaker 3: He would lay.
23:41
Speaker 2: Listening to their heart, and he trained himself to learn
23:44
Speaker 2: when they were coming out of the drug induced coma
23:48
Speaker 2: by their breathing, because it would start to get kind
23:51
Speaker 2: of sharp and short from the long breathing of a
23:53
Speaker 2: drug induced and that's when he knew it was time
23:56
Speaker 2: to kill them.
23:57
Speaker 1: He would then perform oral sex on them before stress
24:00
Speaker 1: and dismembering them and often keeping his favorite body parts
24:03
Speaker 1: around his flat for days on end.
24:06
Speaker 5: Sometimes he would have sex with the individual as they
24:09
Speaker 5: were unconscious, but always after they were dead as well.
24:15
Speaker 5: So I mean it became I think the preference was
24:18
Speaker 5: for the dead person because that way he didn't have
24:20
Speaker 5: to deal with there with conversation. He didn't have to
24:24
Speaker 5: deal with denials or rejections. It was strictly on his
24:29
Speaker 5: own turf. At that time, he had all of his
24:33
Speaker 5: victims back at his apartment where he would be able
24:37
Speaker 5: to enjoy himself by going through the rituals that he
24:41
Speaker 5: needed to perform acts of sexual activity combined with destruction
24:49
Speaker 5: of the bodies.
24:51
Speaker 2: He would come back from work and make love with
24:52
Speaker 2: the dead body. He would sleep with it, he would
24:55
Speaker 2: lie with it, he would rob it and have sex
24:59
Speaker 2: with it.
24:59
Speaker 5: He would just very, very enamored with the concept of
25:05
Speaker 5: opening a body, seeing the.
25:08
Speaker 3: Internal organ spill forth.
25:10
Speaker 5: And several of the bodies he would put in his
25:13
Speaker 5: bathtub and pack with ice in midweek because he had
25:16
Speaker 5: to work the next day, so he could keep them
25:19
Speaker 5: for the weekend where he had more time to enjoy himself.
25:22
Speaker 3: With these bodies. He said.
25:25
Speaker 5: To do that, he'd have to shower with cold water
25:27
Speaker 5: so he.
25:28
Speaker 3: Would melt the ice.
25:30
Speaker 5: Was uncomfortable, it was well worth it.
25:33
Speaker 1: One way to understand Dama's obscure fantasy world is to
25:37
Speaker 1: talk to someone who shares Dama's interest in death and bodies.
25:42
Speaker 1: Niko Klaus is better known as the Vampire of Paris.
25:46
Speaker 1: A convicted cannibal and murderer, Klaus killed a man in
25:50
Speaker 1: cold blood in October nineteen ninety four. He served just
25:53
Speaker 1: seven years in prison and is now free to walk
25:56
Speaker 1: the streets.
26:00
Speaker 13: Really reate to somebody like him. I can't understand what
26:03
Speaker 13: went through his mind and what his obsessions were. He
26:09
Speaker 13: was really concerned with the esthetics of death, how beautiful
26:15
Speaker 13: they looked like in his eye. This is why he
26:18
Speaker 13: took photographs of his victims. He would pose them in
26:22
Speaker 13: twisted positions.
26:25
Speaker 9: Yeah, what was the idea to pose him there?
26:28
Speaker 14: It was just a way to exhibit control and where
26:31
Speaker 14: wanted them to look.
26:33
Speaker 8: And to scituate and seek.
26:36
Speaker 9: Keeping his photographs and was important to you as well,
26:39
Speaker 9: I'd use them. Yeah, and you had a lot of right.
26:45
Speaker 2: It continued on and grew and momentum that the passions
26:48
Speaker 2: and the loss became stronger. His wont to look for
26:51
Speaker 2: this this perfect orgasm, I guess you could call it.
26:55
Speaker 2: He had to do more and more things in order
26:58
Speaker 2: to have this satisfying orgasm. It just started with having
27:01
Speaker 2: pornographic homosexual arm sex, and then actually having homosexual sex
27:07
Speaker 2: with people in the baths, and then having sex and killing,
27:12
Speaker 2: and then having sex with dead people, and then having
27:15
Speaker 2: sex with the viscera, and then actually eating the people
27:19
Speaker 2: that he had sex with to get this superb orgasmic experience.
27:26
Speaker 1: How does a human being get to the point that
27:29
Speaker 1: they can only eat the flesh of another Only another
27:32
Speaker 1: cannibal can truly know. Nico was working as a mortuary
27:35
Speaker 1: assistant at a Parisian morgue when he tried human flesh
27:39
Speaker 1: for the first time.
27:41
Speaker 13: There is a state of euphroia right after you have
27:45
Speaker 13: done it. You refeel on a big high and you
27:51
Speaker 13: are like on the top of a mountain.
27:55
Speaker 8: During dismemberment. That I say, mustn't eat later, cut it
28:05
Speaker 8: into small pieces, and Washington put it in the month
28:12
Speaker 8: these plastic clear plastic freezer bags and put them in
28:16
Speaker 8: the floor freezer, just as an escalation, trying something new
28:21
Speaker 8: and dissatisfy. And I would cook it and then look
28:27
Speaker 8: at the picture imagine it was afterwards.
28:30
Speaker 9: Did that have any any positive effect to that? That ritual?
28:34
Speaker 8: It satisfying, It made it feel like they were more
28:37
Speaker 8: part of me.
28:40
Speaker 2: What he did was he bought an adaptable grill to
28:42
Speaker 2: put on his gas stove. We found this and he
28:45
Speaker 2: said he would just kind of seer it on both
28:48
Speaker 2: sides with.
28:48
Speaker 3: The little oil keep.
28:51
Speaker 2: He did add some condiments to it, some vegetables and
28:54
Speaker 2: mushrooms and onions, and towards the end there's the month
28:57
Speaker 2: before we caught him. Pretty much the only meat that
29:00
Speaker 2: he ate was was human flesh.
29:03
Speaker 13: Taste like osmid in my experience, but of course it
29:07
Speaker 13: depends on the pot the sweet.
29:11
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Drma wanted a partner he could completely control, dead
29:15
Speaker 1: or alive.
29:16
Speaker 5: He began fantasizing that he could make things much better
29:21
Speaker 5: for himself by creating a sex zombie, and the sex
29:26
Speaker 5: zombie he thought would stay with him and all the
29:29
Speaker 5: time he would not have to murder anymore.
29:35
Speaker 14: I wasn't getting satisfaction, so I took it to a
29:40
Speaker 14: new level. I had a hand girl that I.
29:46
Speaker 8: Used in the more used.
29:47
Speaker 15: I installing a arm system, drills small more words very
29:54
Speaker 15: quickly and with a large syringe.
29:58
Speaker 14: I'd fill that up with years, killed it and projected it,
30:03
Speaker 14: hoping to bring society mistake.
30:07
Speaker 13: He was not interested in having a relationship with a
30:10
Speaker 13: willing victim. He wanted total control over a human body
30:18
Speaker 13: and do whatever he wanted.
30:20
Speaker 1: He had met fourteen year old kernerac Centersymphony in the
30:23
Speaker 1: mall when he tried out his new drilling technique, but
30:26
Speaker 1: he made the mistake of leaving him alone.
30:28
Speaker 8: I saw him sitting on the sidewalk two girls who
30:32
Speaker 8: were they called the police. Had to think of his
30:37
Speaker 8: story quickly, and.
30:38
Speaker 16: They told him that he was a friend who gets drunk.
30:41
Speaker 16: He was not wanting to the backs. One officer to
30:44
Speaker 16: grab him by this and another armer grabbed him on
30:46
Speaker 16: the other arm, and they walked him up with the
30:49
Speaker 16: parents and they left.
30:52
Speaker 9: That's my dad, the second nick right away? How would it.
30:56
Speaker 3: Take him with gay?
30:57
Speaker 8: That was me.
31:02
Speaker 1: Yet again, like many before them, the police were taken
31:05
Speaker 1: in by the courtiers Doctor Jekyl side of Jeffrey Dahmer's personality,
31:09
Speaker 1: but with the bodies piling up and a pungent smell
31:12
Speaker 1: emanating from his apartment, it wouldn't be long before he
31:15
Speaker 1: would start drawing attention to himself.
31:17
Speaker 2: Jeff said that this was a continual problem, the smell
31:22
Speaker 2: that his neighbors, the building supervisor complained about the smell.
31:29
Speaker 1: So Pac liber Princeville was in charge of Dama's apartment
31:32
Speaker 1: building and had to deal with the complaints.
31:35
Speaker 5: Somebody told me that it is coming from his apartment,
31:41
Speaker 5: and so I had to call him and ask him
31:44
Speaker 5: what's going on?
31:45
Speaker 3: Can't he clean up or what?
31:48
Speaker 8: I'd either blame it on the freezer or the fish team.
31:53
Speaker 9: You really said, he almost passed out?
31:54
Speaker 8: What was in there? Three heads? Yea constrict.
32:01
Speaker 1: The man who brought an end to Doma's reign of
32:03
Speaker 1: terror was thirty two year old Tracy Edwards, who, after
32:06
Speaker 1: escaping from Dama, was running down a street with a
32:09
Speaker 1: pair of handcuffs on one wrist when he managed to
32:12
Speaker 1: flag down a passing police car.
32:14
Speaker 4: Had the officer been able to unleash that handcuff, that
32:19
Speaker 4: may have been the end of it. So they went
32:20
Speaker 4: back to Dahmer's residency.
32:22
Speaker 2: Jeff opened the door, they said who they were, what
32:26
Speaker 2: they wanted, but Jeff didn't have the key for the handcuff.
32:29
Speaker 2: Because he didn't the way he got the handcuffs back
32:32
Speaker 2: from his victims was by cutting off their hands.
32:35
Speaker 4: When they entered the apartment, one of the officers saw
32:38
Speaker 4: some pictures in a bedroom of a skinning of a
32:42
Speaker 4: human being. Looked at the pictures, was surprised, then looked
32:45
Speaker 4: around the room and realized he was in the very
32:48
Speaker 4: room where those pictures had been taken.
32:51
Speaker 3: He yelled out to his partner grab them.
32:56
Speaker 2: When I arrived, I saw Dahmer was arrested on the ground, handcuffed,
33:01
Speaker 2: and I was told by the officers to look in
33:04
Speaker 2: the refrigerator at this time. When I did open up
33:06
Speaker 2: the refrigerator, what I found in there was an empty
33:08
Speaker 2: refrigerator with a cardboard box containing a freshly severed head
33:13
Speaker 2: of a black male.
33:14
Speaker 3: The eyes and the mouth were open. Should be stated
33:17
Speaker 3: that the interior refrigerator.
33:18
Speaker 2: Was immaculately clean. In the back was a box of
33:22
Speaker 2: arm Hammer baking soda, and on the side were condiments mustard,
33:27
Speaker 2: ketchup a one sauce. I felt fear from the bottom
33:32
Speaker 2: of my feet all the way to the top of
33:33
Speaker 2: my head. You can't make sense of anything that looks
33:36
Speaker 2: so bizarre.
33:37
Speaker 1: Dama's killing spray was finally brought to an end. What
33:41
Speaker 1: was motivating Jeffrey Dahma to kill, dismember, and eat his victims?
33:46
Speaker 1: Was he sane or insane? Jeffrey Dahma was just eighteen
33:52
Speaker 1: years old when he took the life of his first victim.
33:56
Speaker 1: Nine years later, he was driven to kill again. It
34:00
Speaker 1: was after this that the killings escalated. He continued to kill,
34:04
Speaker 1: and for years he got away with murder. No one
34:07
Speaker 1: suspected the mild mannered, good looking middle class boy of
34:11
Speaker 1: any further wrongdoing.
34:13
Speaker 2: In a long list of these, I mentioned the judge
34:16
Speaker 2: the commuted as sentence, the first police officer that let
34:18
Speaker 2: him go in Ohio. When he first got out, he
34:22
Speaker 2: was on probation, but not once during his entire time
34:26
Speaker 2: of being on probation did a probation officer come to
34:29
Speaker 2: his apartment, much less make a surprise visit to his apartment. Also,
34:35
Speaker 2: he was under court order to see a psychologist every month.
34:39
Speaker 2: In some of the days, he had just killed somebody
34:41
Speaker 2: over the weekend and chopped them up and threw them away,
34:45
Speaker 2: and then he was sitting and talking to the psychologist,
34:48
Speaker 2: putting on a front and being cleared to go.
34:51
Speaker 1: This time was different. They had him in custody and
34:54
Speaker 1: they weren't about to let him out of their sight.
34:56
Speaker 1: Knowing that it was all finally over, Dahma signed away
34:59
Speaker 1: his right to an attorney. From midnight into the early
35:02
Speaker 1: hours of the next morning, he started unveiling the wicked
35:05
Speaker 1: truth behind his evil acts.
35:08
Speaker 3: He didn't tell us about eating people right away.
35:10
Speaker 2: In the freezer part of the refrigerator, they found individually
35:14
Speaker 2: wrapped and prepared body parts the thigh, bicep, heart, liver.
35:22
Speaker 1: As Kennedy continued his interrogation, the most pertinent question was why.
35:28
Speaker 2: There was mental illness in his family, And that's not
35:30
Speaker 2: a stigma. I mean, a lot of our families have
35:32
Speaker 2: mental illnesses. The fact that there was a lot of
35:34
Speaker 2: arguing going on between his mom and dad and when
35:36
Speaker 2: he was growing up, the fact that he felt to band,
35:39
Speaker 2: and I mean, all these things together could they produce
35:43
Speaker 2: Who knows?
35:44
Speaker 1: Had his desertion as a teenager left Jeffrey with a
35:47
Speaker 1: fear of abandonment that affected his adult life.
35:51
Speaker 2: We had discussions about love because I said, Jeff, well,
35:53
Speaker 2: why don't you just have a regular boyfriend? You know,
35:55
Speaker 2: I mean, and then you woudn't have to kill these
35:57
Speaker 2: But he said, people always left. I could ever get
36:00
Speaker 2: anyone to stay with me. So I saw that the
36:04
Speaker 2: only way I can keep them with me was by
36:06
Speaker 2: killing them, but by actually eating the person that this
36:10
Speaker 2: young man actually became part of jeff Dahmer.
36:13
Speaker 5: Dahmer did state that he was there was not a
36:17
Speaker 5: victim of his crimes, that he did not personally love
36:21
Speaker 5: and would like to have stayed on a permanent level.
36:26
Speaker 5: It all boiled on the same routine. When they were
36:30
Speaker 5: going to leave, that's when they died.
36:34
Speaker 1: Even Doma himself can't provide an explanation.
36:39
Speaker 11: What do you account to the fact that you're getting
36:41
Speaker 11: into this so often, the fact that I was desperately trains.
36:49
Speaker 8: Making so much satisfied that they never did.
36:52
Speaker 1: But was it just a simple case of not being
36:54
Speaker 1: able to find what he was looking for, and you met.
36:57
Speaker 11: Somebody who consented, he would set up let the arrangement
37:03
Speaker 11: with you. Would you have abandoned then the procedure that
37:08
Speaker 11: you stayed with.
37:10
Speaker 8: The person would have had to be totally compliant, willing
37:14
Speaker 8: to do whatever. M's just like that. So that's true.
37:19
Speaker 1: There was never any doubt that Dama committed these heenous crimes.
37:23
Speaker 1: His sixty hour confession and the insurmountable evidence was to
37:27
Speaker 1: solve a complicated question. Was Darma sane or insane? If
37:32
Speaker 1: the court found Darma sane, he would spend the rest
37:34
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. If they judged him insane,
37:38
Speaker 1: he would go to a psychiatric hospital from which one
37:40
Speaker 1: day he could possibly be released. Prosecutor Michael McCann had
37:45
Speaker 1: a different approach to the trial.
37:47
Speaker 4: We have in wisconson what's called a bifurcated trial. We
37:51
Speaker 4: use the same jury, but we do it sequentially. First,
37:54
Speaker 4: did he do the slayings? Secondly, was he saying or
37:56
Speaker 4: insane at the time. So the second part of the
38:00
Speaker 4: trial was the real issue that went on for several
38:02
Speaker 4: weeks in this very courtroom.
38:04
Speaker 1: Dama called on his old defense attorney, Gerald Boyle. Boyle
38:08
Speaker 1: felt his client had to be insane.
38:11
Speaker 6: Killing didn't obviously meaning to him. He had no conscience,
38:16
Speaker 6: so he was not going to be rehabilitated, no matter
38:18
Speaker 6: who was working with him.
38:20
Speaker 1: To the average person, killing and eating another human would
38:23
Speaker 1: not be considered a sane act. But according to Wisconsin's
38:27
Speaker 1: legal definition of sanity, if a person knows what they
38:30
Speaker 1: are doing is wrong but keeps doing it anyway, they
38:33
Speaker 1: are classified as sane.
38:35
Speaker 5: Garmer definitely knew what he was doing, but he didn't care.
38:40
Speaker 5: He justified what he was doing by his own standards.
38:45
Speaker 5: He knew what was against the law.
38:47
Speaker 4: I think after you kill a certain number of people,
38:50
Speaker 4: you've lost all track of morality. You no longer feel
38:53
Speaker 4: constrained by the morals that bind most of us.
38:58
Speaker 1: Dama sat emotionless during the verse before the judge and
39:01
Speaker 1: the families of the victims he'd killed and dismembered. He
39:04
Speaker 1: was judged to be sane and sentenced to life imprisonment.
39:07
Speaker 1: On the seventeenth of February nineteen ninety two.
39:10
Speaker 4: Someone asked me once, how many people do you have
39:13
Speaker 4: to kill and eat before you're insane?
39:15
Speaker 3: In Milwaukee.
39:17
Speaker 4: I can say this that everyone who knew Dahmer, and
39:19
Speaker 4: I think the most skilled psychiatrists said Dahmer was saying.
39:24
Speaker 4: That is even more frightening than believing Dahmer was insane.
39:29
Speaker 4: I believe he was sane and tragically evil.
39:34
Speaker 2: I felt that that was a just and for what
39:37
Speaker 2: he did, he needed to be removed from society forever
39:39
Speaker 2: for the rest of his life. And I think that's
39:41
Speaker 2: what he should have gotten.
39:42
Speaker 3: That's what he got.
39:43
Speaker 4: Of course, we had fifteen verdicts of guilty and fifteen
39:47
Speaker 4: verdicts of sane while committing the crime, and then, of
39:50
Speaker 4: course the sentence of the court was such that so
39:53
Speaker 4: long nine hundred plus years, that he would never be released.
39:58
Speaker 4: When Dahmer went to maximum security prison at Columbia, he
40:02
Speaker 4: came in contact with a minister or ministers and started
40:05
Speaker 4: reading the Bible and attending chapel there.
40:13
Speaker 1: Faced with life imprisonment, Dama turned to religion once again
40:16
Speaker 1: for comfort and possible salvation. Eventually, he asked local Church
40:21
Speaker 1: of Christ minister Roy Radcliffe to come to the jail
40:25
Speaker 1: to baptize him.
40:28
Speaker 17: After I agreed to baptize him, he heaved a deep
40:32
Speaker 17: sigh of relief because he was afraid that I would
40:35
Speaker 17: say I can't baptize you because your sins are too grievous,
40:40
Speaker 17: Your sins are too bad, your sins are unforgivable. Well,
40:43
Speaker 17: that violates everything I've ever believed. And I would never
40:46
Speaker 17: say that Jesus Christ came to save sinners. Jeffrey Dahmer
40:49
Speaker 17: was a sinner. It's as simple as that. It was
40:51
Speaker 17: our first Thanksgiving holiday that was coming up, and so
40:55
Speaker 17: he made a big deal about giving this card to me,
40:57
Speaker 17: and it was written out and so forth. He talked
40:59
Speaker 17: about how much he grateful for all that I'd done
41:01
Speaker 17: for him, and how thankful he was that I was
41:03
Speaker 17: in his life and I hadn't given up on him.
41:06
Speaker 17: The only emotion he ever had confessed to regarding his
41:09
Speaker 17: murders was love.
41:10
Speaker 3: It wasn't hatred at all.
41:12
Speaker 17: And I never saw a sense of malice or anger
41:14
Speaker 17: hatred toward any of his victims at all.
41:18
Speaker 1: In November nineteen ninety three, two inmates were killed by
41:21
Speaker 1: delusional schizophrenic Christopher Scava at the Columbia Correctional Institute. One
41:26
Speaker 1: was Jesse Anderson, the other was Jeffrey Dahmer.
41:29
Speaker 4: Diarver got a piece of equipment off an exercise machine
41:34
Speaker 4: crept up upon Dahmer and bludgeoned him to death, and
41:42
Speaker 4: then crossed a gymnasium and bludgeoned to death Anderson.
41:46
Speaker 2: He knew that he was going to be killed if
41:48
Speaker 2: he asked for the general population, and talking to the investigator,
41:52
Speaker 2: said that the gentleman that was killed with him, Jesse Anderson,
41:57
Speaker 2: had all kinds of defensive marks where he tried to
42:01
Speaker 2: stop Carver, but Jeff Dahmer had no defensive marks on him.
42:05
Speaker 2: That all his strikes were from the beginning, from the head,
42:08
Speaker 2: And a very interesting thing. What I thought was interesting
42:10
Speaker 2: was he was killed with a hand bar bell, which
42:14
Speaker 2: is the same instrument he used to kill his very
42:16
Speaker 2: first victim.
42:18
Speaker 17: He was a young man that I felt a friendship toward,
42:21
Speaker 17: and I had lost a friend, and so I was
42:22
Speaker 17: very much in shock and disbelief about it. At first, I.
42:27
Speaker 5: Felt somewhat sorry for the man being beaten to death
42:31
Speaker 5: by another inmate. Didn't seem right. It's not supposed to
42:37
Speaker 5: be what happens in prison.
42:39
Speaker 2: It did kind of shake me up a little bit.
42:42
Speaker 2: I don't know if this means, you know, not the
42:44
Speaker 2: macho guy I wanted to be, But I felt really
42:48
Speaker 2: conflicted about it because I had got to know him.
42:51
Speaker 2: I saw him as a very tragic, tragic figure. I
42:56
Speaker 2: guess I felt sad that he was dead because I
42:58
Speaker 2: don't believe anybody needs to die like that.
43:04
Speaker 7: He died pretty brutally, but you can't say he didn't
43:08
Speaker 7: deserve it.
43:09
Speaker 3: But still.
43:13
Speaker 7: I think at that point it's probably a relief to him.
43:15
Speaker 7: I would think that was no kind of life.
43:19
Speaker 12: I was kind of elated that was kind of happened, like, well,
43:21
Speaker 12: good riddings. I'm glad it's over. That's the least he
43:25
Speaker 12: can do for me for taking my friend. He didn't
43:29
Speaker 12: deserve to live.
43:31
Speaker 17: No, not after that, Jeffrey Dahmer was cremated immediately, although
43:36
Speaker 17: his brain was removed at the request of his mother.
43:39
Speaker 17: She wanted the brain studied because she's trying to offset
43:42
Speaker 17: the belief that Lionel had suggested that somehow his brain
43:46
Speaker 17: was deformed. About a year later, the scientist involved with
43:50
Speaker 17: the brain decides there's no abnormality with his brain.
43:55
Speaker 1: Was Dama's behavior simply down to nurture? Was Dama not
43:58
Speaker 1: born to kill?
44:00
Speaker 6: No, I know he was born like that, and I
44:02
Speaker 6: think it's environmental and I disagree.
44:05
Speaker 18: I think anybody who, in a young age is the
44:09
Speaker 18: victim of abject loneliness is probably going to have serious
44:14
Speaker 18: problems in life of one nature or another.
44:17
Speaker 3: Did he choose evil? Yes? Was he an evil person?
44:22
Speaker 2: I can't say, and I wouldn't say that about anybody,
44:25
Speaker 2: especially after I spent so much time with him and
44:27
Speaker 2: saw parts of him that were very much like you
44:30
Speaker 2: and me. He had cares and loves and feelings like
44:33
Speaker 2: anybody else. Did he have some I personally thought he
44:37
Speaker 2: was crazy. You'd have to be crazy to.
44:39
Speaker 3: Do what he did. I don't think Dahmer was born
44:42
Speaker 3: to kill.
44:43
Speaker 4: I think Dahmer had the benefits of a good family,
44:46
Speaker 4: a basically good family, a decent area in which to
44:49
Speaker 4: we raised, educational opportunities. He chose not to accept them.
44:54
Speaker 1: Whatever factors led to Dahma's path of destruction, it will
44:58
Speaker 1: take the city of Milwaukee a long time to return
45:00
Speaker 1: to normality.
45:01
Speaker 12: He's guard the city. He's He's done something that will
45:05
Speaker 12: probably take generations to to to to heal, but for
45:11
Speaker 12: some people will never heal.
45:13
Speaker 6: H m hm h m hmmm, yeah, yeah, m m
45:33
Speaker 6: m m hm h m hmmmmh yeah, yeah, m