Latest / Reimagine Running / Reimagine Running | Marathon Training with Tim and Ryan S1E28
Transcript
- Tim: a lot of people said this in the past, but like if you rely on motivation, you're never gonna make it. You've gotta have dedication and consistency to get you through the days when you don't have any motivation, 'cause if you rely on motivation you won't make it. So I think that's for me is the the main thing that keeps me going, just knowing the goal that I have is it's gonna take a a lot of work and I've gotta do everything I can. Even now I'm I mean I have three more big weeks until Big Cottonwood and I'm still thinking like, okay, is there something that I'm missing in my in my weekly workouts or whatever? What can I do to get me that much closer to my goal for race day? And so I think it's just constantly doing what you can to have the best results possible on race day is what keeps me going. Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. Ryan Head: Alright everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running the podcast talking about why we run. I am very excited to do an episode that is very similar to a previous episode we just had a few weeks back. So if you remember and if you've been following along a couple weeks ago, we had Eric Sutterfield on the podcast with me. Talking about training for ultras this fall and just the mindset, the way you should be attacking each run, so on and so forth. it was a great episode to record, as well as lots and lots of feedback, lots of views of it, And so, you know, as I got thinking about it and as I've been talking to my good friend Tim Cotterall, who has been, on here multiple times to help co-host episodes. We got talking about them. We're you know what? We should do one for road running marathons and a half marathons for this fall. So without further ado, we're gonna do an episode now on training right now for your road-based races this fall. I think it's a fun idea. obviously, right, there is a lot of crossover between ultra running and road running and doing marathons, but there are some distinct differences between the two, and who better than to have basically the marathon guru himself, Tim Cotterall, to help coach Tim: Mm. Ryan Head: us, to help give us some really good information. So anyways, Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: Tim, welcome back to the podcast, man. Tim: Thanks, it's good to be back on here again. I think this is number five, I think now. Four maybe? Four. Four? Ryan Head: I know I was gonna say, is it five? It might be five. This might be number five. Four or five. You know, I know you've you've helped co-host a couple of episodes, which has been really awesome Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: to have you. And then and then yeah, I know we've had you on, you know, obviously you were the second episode that I recorded. And so, even though, yeah, you're ta technically being interviewed here, this is more informative for everybody, so it's just kind of exciting. This is just more of us having a conversation. And in a lot of ways, as I joked about, you know, me and Eric doing a virtual run with you guys basically you're joining me and Tim's text thread because we love to talk training all the time through text message. We're always comparing notes and all that. So we won't give you all the the fun stuff that we talk about. You guys will just get the running portion Tim: Stop that. Ryan Head: of our text messages today. So, anyways, I'm excited to go over this with you guys. Before we get into it, as always, love to just give a huge shout out to our premier sponsor for the podcast, Fleet Feet, who's doing amazing stuff. they are located both in Ogden and LinkedIn. Go see those guys, they'll get you taken care of with all. Nutrition needs, food needs, gear needs, hydration needs, you name it, they've got you taken care of. So get over there, get your feet scanned, and they'll they'll get you taken care of, get you back out on the roads or the trail. So anyways, Tim I always kick off each episode the same way, asking something new about somebody, but I don't know what else there is to talk about with ya and something that's not running related. Give us something, dude. Give us something that no one knows about you. About that that maybe Tim: What's the Ryan Head: last time you talked about yard work and then you talked about the NFL. So what's something else we about you? Tim: Y Yep, yeah, the Miami Dolphins are McKean. We talked about yard work a little bit. Let's see. one thing that's kind of funny is I think I'm borderline kleptomaniac. Wait, is that where you sleep? What's the sleeping one? Let's end up this part out. Ryan Head: No, Klepomaniac is where you steal. That's where you you're a thief. Ha ha dude this is this is perfect. No way dude, this is perfect. I love it. Narc narcolepsy. Narcolepsy. Tim: And stop what's the one where you fall asleep instantly? What's that one? Narcolepsy. I'm borderline narcoleptic. That's what I meant to say. I can fall asleep Ryan Head: Are you serious? Tim: I can fall asleep anywhere, anytime, in probably less than two minutes. I have a picture on my phone. we went to the library one day and the family was out picking books or whatever, and I s went and sat on the chair and one of the Family came back, I was full on asleep at the chair in the library, just like zonked out. I can literally yeah, probably less than five minutes I'm out, just and it doesn't matter where or what, I can sleep just about anywhere. In in a car, sitting up in a chair, you name it, I can fall asleep just about anywhere. So that's probably the other one other interesting thing about me, I guess, is I can just I can sleep almost on demand. So Ryan Head: Dude, that's cool. Yeah, I'm I think with my training, I I know I still have my insomniac nights, if you will, but I'm I do really well the fall asleep. Like I can already feel it right now. Even tonight we're doing a recording, it's you know, almost seven o'clock at night, and I can feel it already. Like, yeah, I'm wanting to go to bed. So I I'm usually pretty quick to bed. I'm usually like a five to ten minute fall asleep type of guy. But yeah, two minutes is that's pretty fast. That's insane. So that's super cool. I know multiple of my friends Who would give anything to have that ability? Because, dude, it's insane like how some people they can't shut their brain off or Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: write, they just they just can't stop. They can't just like fall asleep and get into it. And man, I feel bad for those guys because, dude, I'm telling you, man, it is not hard for me. And I think one of the most disappointing things, especially like where we're at right now, I guess is a good lead into the training block and training for road marathons. It's a good segue, Tim: Both. Ryan Head: is dude, every morning. when my alarm goes off to get up, it it doesn't feel like it's been six, seven, eight hours. It never does. Like I get there's some mornings I'm actually angry that I have to get up. I'm like, there's no way. Tim: That's funny. Ryan Head: There's no way that was that Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: was the amount of time, but it is what it is. And so you just get up and you get going. Tim: Probably. If I'm lucky I get six hours of sleep at night. So maybe that's part of it too. But usually I'm five hours a night. Not by not because I want to stay up, just life is busy and so yeah, just it's it's hard to get more than six hours of sleep at night. Too much stuff going on. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I get it. Yeah, and I maybe that's a good way to s this a great great place to start. It really was. I mean, I was kinda joking about that, but I kind of think it's a great place. I mean, you know, one thing that I talk about with all my athletes, as they're I have quite a few who are training for you know, like the St. George Marathon or Big Cottonwood half marathon or the fall, is sleep, right? And it is a big thing about letting your body recover. because right, we are pushing ourselves so hard right now. Now and you know, one thing that I talked about with Eric you know, like one of the number one, in my opinion, my humble opinion, number one like performance-enhancing drugs, if you will, really is getting a good amount of sleep. If you can get a good amount of sleep and allow your body to recover, not it not only is it your legs and your body that's gonna recover, but your brain, your mental focus, emotionally, you'll be more sound. and and heaven knows all my poor athletes, Chrissy Rundio, she made fun of me. when we did our episode, but gol I I emphasize sleeping like no other everybody gets it from me. There ain't one of my athletes who who gets spared from being getting a talking to about sleep every night. but I just think it's important. I don't know what what's your thoughts on that? What's your thoughts on on the amount of sleep? Tim: it's huge, obvious I think it's huge, obviously. I mean, injury prevention I think probably is the biggest factor as far as getting enough sleep that you need for the night. so it's huge. I wish it was something I was better at, but I think yeah, being able to prevent injury, also being able to perform if I mean if it's an easy run, you can probably get away with less sleep and you'll be just fine. You might f have dead legs or whatever, but Probably be just fine. But on days where you're trying to do speed work, whatever, it's I think it's super important to try to get as much sleep as you can so you're ready for the that big workout for the day. And yeah, like I said before, like just injury prevention, I think it's huge. It's when your body can kind of repair all the damage that you're doing to it during the day. it's might be the most important aspect of training in all reality is sleep. Ryan Head: Yeah. And I kinda like piggyback off of that. I know I if it you know you came on here hoping for some really fun, crazy advice. Sorry we're disappointing you talking about sleep right now, but but sleep is so important and kinda go down another avenue with that and that is recovery weeks and rest days. You know, one thing I've always been really impressed with you, and it can be any day for anybody. But one thing I've always like admired about you is that you are like Johnny on the spot with taking Sundays off. You're like, nope, Sunday is my day off. I don't run. I don't do anything. Like it is my rest day. And I am like allowing that body to heal. Like, what impact on your training? What do you think that is? Like that you give yourself one full day, and sometimes maybe it's another day during the week, but you know, sometimes I know. you're doing sometimes five days, some days you're doing sometimes you're doing six days a week. But what's that impact look like on you, do you think, by giving yourself that one day off each week guaranteed? Tim: Yeah, for sure. So I I always run six days a week unless I had something weird happen during the week at work or, you know, maybe I have some weird injury or something that's popped up that I just want to make sure it doesn't fester or whatever. I'll do six days a week. But I think for me, A I'm old, so I think that's another thing. But and I always do my long runs on Saturdays. So for me, my training block right now, I'm doing about eighty five miles a week. and my long runs are on Saturdays. And so I think for me, after a tough week of running and, you know, doing workouts and whatnot, it it's vital for me as I obviously get older. But I think it's not just an age thing, but just for everyone. Just kind of let your body just kinda relax, recharge. peel up any niggles that you have or whatever. I think it's just a good way to kinda let the body recuperate and start over fresh again on Monday so you can be rested and have your body ready to rock and roll for that upcoming week. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I love that. And it's kind of funny, like in my opinion, and if you've been training for a marathon, half marathon, whatever it is, like that cumulative fatigue is real. And anybody that has, a training block that's like twenty weeks long, you know exactly what we're talking about, right? Like Tim: Ha. Ryan Head: by week thirteen, fourteen you're like, man, like it is building and even building in those rest days, building in those recovery weeks, It's still compounds and it can build quickly. And that's why, like, I really do believe like it's cool when you're like, dude, I take a day off and I don't do anything else. You really do Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: need those days built into your weeks where you're just like, Nope, I'm not doing anything. And and someone brought up that question one time on I think it was our Facebook page or whatever. Someone's like, you know, what do you guys do on your recovery days? Like, you know, or rest days? Do you still do anything? And I was like, I don't do anything, I don't even do strength training. I don't do I don't walk. Tim: Yeah. Same. Ryan Head: I don't do anything. I'm just like no I'm I'm completely free for a day and I just I need that. I I think it's just super healthy and super important. So Tim: I think too, at least for me, mentally I just need one day to kind of like if I were to do seven days a week and just pounding miles, miles, miles every day. I think I mean always I don't know, I feel the same way, but I always get towards the end of training blocks and I'm kind of just done, like I'm ready to be into taper mode or whatever. So for me it's nice to just have a day to not have to worry about it, just kind of think about everything else that's going on and just kind of get away from running. Just for even for the one day, I think it's just huge for. for me mentally and I think it just gives me time to refocus for the upcoming week and not have to you know think about what I'm gonna where I'm gonna run, how far I'm gonna run, how fast I'm gonna run, all that stuff. It's just a day just to get away from it all completely. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, and it's funny that you bring that up because I do think it's healthy, like, especially when you're through running season, to just be like either A, like, you know, don't establish a new habit of not doing anything, 'cause that that can unhealthy for you. Like, you know, you want to keep moving and even if it's like, you know, I'm gonna step away from running for a while, I'm gonna bike, I'm gonna hike, I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm gonna swim, whatever it is, right? Do something. Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: but I do think it's healthy to like, once that training block is over, to kind of like take a step back and be like Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna do just whatever. I don't mean you've been texting this week. We're like, dude, when we're done with our races this year, like we're gonna spend the winter just having fun. And I'm like, dude, I'm all in. Like, I'm totally Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: all in. Because as much as I like training and I'm excited for the Wasach 100, I'm excited for the Bear 100, I'm excited for my race tomorrow for the Skyline 55k. you know, there there still is this thing of like Like still there's still mental stress, there's you know there's mental burden, if you will. There's somewhat of an emotional burden to it too, and obviously physically, it there's there's a lot with it physically. And so I'm just like, you know, sometimes as sad as it is, like, man, I really love these races. part of me is like, man, like I get to October, middle of October, and I'm like, dude, we do whatever we want now. Like, no one has to tell us, like, we gotta Tim: Yeah. What sounds fun the Saturday? Ryan Head: Yeah, like let's just go run something fun, like who cares? Like let's just go party and there's something about that that's just like rejuvenating. So I know we're talking about trying to get ready for races and you know, all that jazz for this fall, but I think there's a lot of good in knowing that once that's over, like take a step back for a minute, give yourself a true off season, I think. I don't know. I think that's probably the best way to put it. Yeah, give yourself an Tim: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Ryan Head: off season, take a few days off or a couple weeks off of really grinding. and if you're like, you know I want to do the Ogden Marathon, Salt Lake City Marathon, whatever marathon in the in the spring. then yeah, have fun until January, February, whatever, and then get into your training block. So I don't know, any other thoughts on that? Tim: Yeah. No, I I totally agree. And then one thing I like to do just Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: everyone is a little different with this, but I always take the entire week off after a marathon just to get away and let my body just kinda heal back up, especially if you're doing downhill marathons. They're super tough on the body. and so it's nice just to let the body recuperate after those downhill marathons. Big Cottonwoods, St. George are both super downhill, lots of stress on the body. I think it's a good way just to kinda let your body heal up before the next whatever you have on tap next. But again, everyone's different. I know some people you might be this way. I I can't I can't say percent. I think you are, but you kinda like to keep the even if it's not running, you like to kinda get out there and just kinda be f lightly active, whatever you want to call it, just to kinda keep the blood flow going. I'm generally not in that boat. I see why people do it, but just for me, I'm just I just wanna step away for a week or so and just do nothing really. Ryan Head: Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong either way. Like, I do it Tim: No. Ryan Head: because I feel I feel like it just gets the blood flowing again. And instead of, Tim: For sure. Ryan Head: you know, just pooling in areas and I'm like, I'm so stiff. But Tim: Mm. Ryan Head: like you said, I don't think there's anything wrong to be like, I'm gonna take week off, just let my body heal up how I want it to. And yeah, I think do what works best for you in that. I don't think there's one way or the other. probably if anything, Tim: Yeah. Totally agree. Ryan Head: your yeah, maybe if anything, your way's probably the healthier option. 'cause, you know, I'm risking an injury by going out there right after a race and trying to move. But, you know, I'm also like you said, I'm like super, super easy. Like half the time I'm walking. I'm doing like, you know, a fifteen, sixteen minute pace on the trails, something like that. Just super easy. So yeah. So I totally Tim: What well Ryan Head: get you. Tim: Yeah, and well it's hard too when like you and I both kinda have we have back to back races coming up in September and October. I think it was the s are the same weekends, both races, you and I? Or is Bear the week before, Saint George? Ryan Head: Nope. Ours so the Yeah, Bear Bear yeah, Bear is the week before Saint George. but Saint George is the same week as D C Peaks, which everybody's doing D C Peaks, I feel like, this year. Tim: That's right. Yeah. Ryan Head: so it's gonna that's gonna be a party. And then And then yeah, Wasatch and Big Cottonwood are the same weekend. So I know we were joking about that how, you know, Tim may be coming up on the bus and I'm hoping that I don't see him on any bus, 'cause if I see him on any bus, I'm a little bit further behind than I wanna be, but I'm hopefully well through Brighton and climbing up to Catherine's Pass by the time I get a text message, Hey man, I'm going up Guardsman's right now, or where are ya? I'm like, dude, I'm long gone, bro. Like that was that was an hour Tim: Sorry, gel at you on my way up. Ryan Head: ago ago. Yeah. I'm hoping. 'cause I think in twenty twenty three I think it was. I think I may have passed you, 'cause I remember multiple buses coming up and Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I remember being like, Damn, I might have passed you and I was thinking about you the whole time and anyways I middle the night, you know, you're all out of it. I'm like, dude, I don't know. Maybe he was in one of those buses, who knows, so Tim: remember being on the bus and seeing people's headlamps coming down, knowing exactly that it's for the Wasatch one hundred, but being able to tell who it was, obviously it wasn't possible, but I remember thinking, I wonder if Ryan Head: Yeah, I mean Tim: one of those was Ryan. Ryan Head: that's awesome. That's freaking awesome. Anyways, Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: alright, well let's get to the fun part. Everybody's waiting for this. I know. We talked about sleep and recovery and you're like, come on guys, like, can we get to the fun stuff? Let's get to some fun stuff. So, anyways, Tim, we are middle of some of these people's training blocks, whether they're training for Big Cottonwood, St. George, or some race outside of the state, right? Those are kind of the big ones that a lot of people are training for. Full marathon, half marathon, maybe a 10K, whatever it is. We're all training for something right now. What are you doing to stay focused and to say like, okay, like I still gotta get up every morning or I gotta go out and do my heat training in the afternoon. what are you doing to still make this happen? Because right for us here in Utah, it's been a long hot summer, man. Like, and some days it's rough to be like, Okay, like let's get up and you get out on the trail or the road and you're like it's eight eighty something degrees already and it's dark. Like Tim: Perfect. Ryan Head: how is it this hot? And this is the morning. It's supposed to be cool here in Utah, but it's not. So dude yeah, how are you staying focused and and getting after it even with all these temps with everything that's been going on? Tim: Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, and maybe everyone's a little bit different, but for me, knowing I have a goal that's gonna be take some work to hopefully reach, knowing that I can't like miss a workout or a run, like I've gotta be focused on what I want or what I need to do to be able to accomplish the the goal that I have. And so I think just having that in front of me, knowing if I miss a workout, even even easy runs. I don't know. I just feel like anything right now, I need as much help as I can get to achieve the goal that I'm after. And if I if I miss something 'cause I'm don't want to get out of bed or whatever, it's just gonna affect me that much on race day. And so I think that's for me, that's the main goal. Like I just knowing like this is a gonna require some work for me. It's not gonna be a a tweedle in, you know, tweedle thee, tweedled them down the canyon type of the thing. It's gotta I'm gonna have to work the entire way and so just knowing the work that it's gonna take to get to that goal is what keeps me going. do I wanna get up every morning? No. Not one Ryan Head: Ha. Tim: bit. I think you know, like Ryan said, like there's mornings like it's just like, my alarm's going off again already. Like But once you get out of bed and once you get moving, it's not so bad. It's usually just the getting out of bed part that's the hard part. Once at least for me, once I'm up, it's it's fine. But yeah, I'm certainly not motivated every day. I think if a lot of people said this in the past, but like if you rely on motivation, you're never gonna make it. You've gotta have dedication and consistency and all that stuff to to get you through the days when you don't have any motivation, 'cause if you rely on motivation you won't make it. So I think that's for me is the the main thing that keeps me going, just knowing the goal that I have is it's gonna take a a lot of work and I've gotta do everything I can. Even now I'm I mean I have three more big weeks until Big Cottonwood and I'm still thinking like, okay, is there something that I'm missing in my in my weekly workouts or whatever? What can I do to get me that much closer to my goal for race day? And so I think it's just constantly yeah, doing what you can to have the best results possible on race day is what keeps me going. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, dude, I think you gave some really good advice and just solid information there. I mean, first and foremost, right? Like you talk about how much do I want it, right? Like more or less that's kinda what you're talking about. Like how bad Tim: Yeah, exactly. Ryan Head: because I yeah, you like you like you've said to me so many times with Big Cottonwood, like you're coming down Big Cottonwood and it is lollipops and candy canes, right? You're freaking doing candy land all the way down the first eighteen miles. Well when things start to level off and you're not doing like the full on downhill anymore well things get pretty hard pretty dang quick and Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: it it's like okay did you do did you do enough right did you put in the work Tim: Exactly. Ryan Head: to in in the training block to to be able to accomplish this because in my head I always think to myself like have I put enough pennies in the piggy bank to feel good about this race, be able to send it, to be able to, you know, really, if anything, be be able to be out on the course and deserve the right to be out on the course. you know, I Tim: Yeah, absolutely. Ryan Head: always think to my I always think to myself, like, so many people want to get into the Wasach 100 or the Bear 100. You have all these people waitless, some people don't get in, some do, whatever, right? And and then I think about all the people who've done it years and years before And I think to myself, like that honor of being there, like I shouldn't ever half step, if you will. Like, I should be giving it my all and going all out to make sure that I honor those who have gone before me and those who will come after me on this trail. And so I always like to try, like you said, I always think like you gotta give it your all. And like and that all is everything, right? Whether that's your eating right, you're avoiding high sugars, the garbage foods out there, you're doing your strength training, right? Like super important. I mean, me and you've talked about this multiple times. but right, it is getting that strength training in, making it a priority, it's gonna make a big difference. for you know, both of us doing our heat training. I know both of us has looked different at times. You know, Tim: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: I'm I'm doing my sauna, you're doing your heat runs. we've been doing runs at 80 degrees. getting your your tempo runs in. I know obviously my road my trail runs are a little bit different. than what you're doing but you Tim: For sure. Ryan Head: know you're you like you said you're you're doing you're getting enough sleep so that you're recovered so you can do your you know your speed work you can do your interval work you can do your tempo days and then right you can do you can take those easy days easy and enjoy that and and this is how it all comes together right because a lot of times I think people are like it's just running you just run and that's all you have to worry about I'm Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: like no there's a whole lot more to it than that maybe early on that's that may have worked but if you're like no I really want to BQ I really want to go fast, like you you gotta you gotta do some of these things and and kinda change it up. And you know, like and almost of our listeners probably know and if they don't, Tim is a Boston qualifier. Tim set in his episode, you know, s on the second episode we talked about his pace, but he I think it was at Big Cottonwood last year or maybe it was St. George. He he did a 240, 249, 248, 249. I Tim: Yep, we count. Nine. Yeah. Two forty nine. Ryan Head: mean, that that's moving, people. That's moving. I mean anytime you I mean I always say a a sub four is a great time. Like that you should be very proud of yourself. But a sub three, you're moving in some special territory there for sure. So it it's not like he's not doing the work. He's doing a ton of work to make this happen. So yeah Any thoughts with that? I mean I know I know I I felt like I kind of interrupted you a little bit there, but yeah, any thoughts? Tim: Nope. You're good. I think yeah, I mean it's just boils down to how much how bad you want it, how much work are you willing to put in to achieve whatever goal. and so are you willing on the days you don't want it to get out the door to do what you need to do to to achieve that goal and if and if you maybe s don't have the the dedication or the discipline to do it, then you know. there's a chance you don't get your goal. And everyone's goals are obviously different. Like if you're if you just want to finish a race, then obviously it's different than maybe if you're going for a time goal or something like that. Maybe it's not, but for me, the best way I've found to be able to improve in what I'm trying to do is be consistent and whether I have the motivation to get out the door or not. I'll tell you what to so a couple days a week I do two a days where I run twice a day. I usually I rarely have problems in the morning getting up and going. Like the mornings are just easy for me for whatever reason. But after w going for a run, then working eight, nine hour day, and then having to come back and do another five miles after all that is it's hundred degrees outside right now. Like it's just mentally it's hard to to get out the door to do those things, but I know the benefits that will come on race day if I can do those things and so most of the time I don't even want to go out there on my second run of the day I'd prefer to be sitting on my couch, you know, falling asleep watching some movie or something like that. But I know I have to if I have a goal I want to achieve it then I've gotta do the work to to to get to that goal. And so yeah, it's it's just how bad are you willing to sacrifice to get the goal that you want? Ryan Head: Yeah. Well and I love what you said there. I think is is really, really good. And and you said something, you know, in in your initial thoughts and I meant to touch on it and I forgot, but you talk about motivation and I I'm I hundred percent agree with you. Like, no question. Don't rely on motivation if you're like, man, every morning I listen Tim: Never works. Ryan Head: to the song. Yeah, I get up, I I listen to the song, it pumps me up every day. Or you're like, I get on and I watch, you know, this whatever video on YouTube that just like gets me like going type of thing. I I'm gonna tell you right now, like, it you should break it the habit. Like I I would stop doing that as soon as possible. yes, it's exciting for now, but eventually it's gonna lose its luster and when it does, dude, then you can come crashing down. You're like, why? Why like why am I like not even motivated? And it goes back to like what you're saying. It's all about being consistent. Like I always say consistency is king. Like people say in business Tim: Absolutely. Ryan Head: cash yeah, people say in business cash is king, right? And that's 100% true. you know, consistency is king in training, like and and consistency is basically king in about every other aspect of our lives, but but if you're consistent, you're gonna do crazy things with running. you're gonna do crazy things with biking, with snowboard. Tim: No matter what it is, yeah. Ryan Head: Skiing, yeah, you if you're consistent, you're gonna get good. You're gonna get good because it just every time you're adding a little bit, like you know, if you're a video gamer or whatever, you're adding a little bit more experience points every time that you do this, and sometimes you'll pick up on stuff, you'll be like, yeah, I need to change this, or I'm gonna do this different next time. And then then you're watching maybe a video, and someone's Hey, this is how you run downhill, or this is how you can keep get your legs to turn overturned quicker, or whatever it is, and you start to incorporate all these things, and as long as you remain consistent. Your body can adapt pretty quickly. I mean, obviously, there's some changes that you can do that can really cause some serious issues, and you want to be careful with that. But you can start to incorporate some of these changes and do some pretty cool things all in all. So I I don't know, that's why I love consistency. I think I always tell people, dude, motivation's fleeting, fall in love with consistency, make that your goal. Tim: Yep. Ryan Head: If you do that, you'll be you'll be unstoppable every time. Tim: Yeah. Yeah, you're exactly right. There's no better way of increasing or improving on what you want to do than to be consistent at it no matter what it is. Ryan Head: Well, my next question I have for you, which this is the Barn Burner. I know everyone's gonna wonder, everyone likes to know this question. And why not talk to the person, one of the fastest people I know? Well I I know a lot of fast people, but you're one of the ones that I'm really good friends with and you know is a fast Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: one of the fastest people I know. What do you do to get faster? And and it doesn't necessarily I mean, obviously I'll share your secrets with what you're doing training wise, but anything else that that goes to you being able to get out and make yourself fast on race day. What are you doing Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: to do this? Because this is the million dollar question. This is what everybody wants to know. Everyone's like, how do you get faster at marathons? Like, you know, you got the people who are historically whatever time and they can't like, I can't get more than like a minute or two faster. What are you doing, dude? What are you doing to be it faster at your races? Tim: Yeah. Yeah. So there's a few things and maybe some people won't agree with me on this, but there's a lot of research that backs it up. The first thing, the the easiest way to and the most proven way of in getting better or getting faster is mileage. I know a lot of people don't wanna hear that, but the the more mileage you can do, the more fit you're gonna be. And so you can look up all the Ryan Head: Amen. Tim: studies, there's tons of it out there. So Yeah, mileage is is the king. it kind of boils down to consistency too. Like they're very similar and they're not exactly the same, but they're very similar. So, as many miles as your body can safely tolerate and you have time for obviously like you still got life, like we're not professional athletes who just can run and eat, then go take a nap and then get up and run and do it again. So obviously do what you can, but that's that's the biggest key. So for me, when you see at least Personally, when you see me in marathon training blocks, I'm not doing and again, everyone's different, but and I'm not saying this to like I'm not trying to put anyone down or anything like that, but if you're running twenty miles a week versus someone who's running sixty miles a week or whatever, chances are the person who's doing sixty miles a week is gonna have a better chance at running faster time than the person who's running twenty miles a week. So for me I try to run as many miles as my body can handle. think we've talked about this maybe not on Pat podcast, maybe we did on the first one, but you kind of teetering on the line of like how far can you go without injuring yourself? You're like towing the line a bit. That's kind of where I I like to be is just as far as I can go, but not injure myself and sometimes I go too far and and I hurt myself and that's just part of the game. But so mileage is a huge thing f to to get faster. The other thing too I like to do is so I used to do one speed workout a week. This marathon training block I'm trying two speed workouts a week just because I feel like I've been running enough miles for long enough. Easy runs are important, but I don't think they're putting a whole lot in my bank at this point as compared Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: to doing an extra speed workout during the week. So I've been trying to do a couple of speed workouts. Usually I'll do a Monday speed workout just and then Thursday just because with how my schedule works out. Those are the two days that work best for me. And then on Saturday, obviously I'm doing a long run to to get my body ready for the marathon or half marathon, whatever race you're training for. But and then on the long run, maybe everyone won't agree with this, but Most long runs shouldn't just be out there twiddling your thumbs. If you wanna run a certain pace, you've got to practice at it. And there's no better Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: way to do it than during the middle of or whatever the long run or so for me, long runs are I'll do some warm up miles or whatever, but they're I don't know of except maybe the l the week before a race where I don't have some sort of speed work attached to my long runs. And so that's kind of been the I think the th things for me, mileage. You gotta do speed work to be able to run a certain pace or whatever, and then long runs you have to practice running at certain paces just to keep or see if you can even run the pace and you gotta learn to know what it feels like, if it's even achievable or not. You won't ever feel like, I don't know, if you're can you're two weeks into your training block and your marathon training time goal or whatever is. you're smoking it in week two, then A you're might be a little conservative on your goal, but be you obviously blow it of the water or whatever. But so usually for me it takes time to be able to l learn how that feels and be able to teach the body how to get comfortable at pushing at that pace. And then for me I'm I'm I'm a pretty rhythmic runner. So once I can kind of figure out what that feels like, if I can just hold on or whatever you want to call it for a couple miles. My body gets into a rhythm and then I can kind of off I go at that point. And so those are the things for me. Mileage, you gotta do speed work, and long runs have to you have to do something in your long run. You can't just go out there and out there just to run. There's gotta be a purpose behind it. So those I think are the three things for me that are the most beneficial. Obviously, if you if this is your first marathon and you're just trying to finish then maybe all those I wouldn't necessarily apply to what you're trying to do. I think long runs at that point probably are just to get miles. You're probably not out there trying to do speed work 'cause that seems like a good way to maybe get injured on your first marathon. but I've run twenty three of now, so just to go out there just to do the long run, doesn't benefit me a whole lot at this point. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I love it. I and I agree, I agree with everything you said there. because one, volume, I mean there's the science is out there. Go go research it, people. The more volume you have with running and miles, the more fit you're gonna be. And that fitness is gonna translate into all kinds of different things, right? Yeah, you know, the we talk about, you know, with my our running certification that we both have. you know, that there's three systems you've really got to get humming, and that's your skeletal system, your muscular. System and cardiovascular. Cardiovascular always comes quick. that's probably the quickest one of it all. I mean, you can always make it better, but that's the one that you can okay, you can finish a marathon now. And but your skeletal system and your muscular system, those are the two that can cause major problems. everything from poles of a ligament or tendon to Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: you know, stress fractures to you know, shin splints, whatever, right? The list goes on. And so the more volume you do, and the bigger you Create that fitness base, right? And that base is solid and really and really firm. The more you can do the speed workouts, the the long run, you know, at tempo or at pace I mean, that's where you can be just crazy good. And so anybody that disagrees with that, I just I don't know. I don't know. Then then explain to me how you do this because I get it that you're like, well, you know, you're just opening up yourself to risk, but that is why you do lots of easy runs. This is exactly why you build that fitness over a long period of time. Any new athlete I get that's like I've never run a marathon before but I want to, we we spend at least eight to maybe 12 weeks just building fitness, man. And sometimes I'm like, listen, we're just here to finish the first one. And then let's just make sure your body responds well and then we go from there. But I like the other thing that I really love that you say is if you want to get faster you gotta you gotta do the speed. You gotta do the speed work. Like I I you know I've I've heard I heard a lot of different ideas on this, and at the end of the day, I just can't agree with any of them. Besides, you gotta just do the speed work. If you wanna get faster, you gotta you gotta you gotta run faster. And Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I really learned that this year because me and Joe, I would run a lot with Joe in the in the spring. And I remember she'd be like, Hey, you know, my training plan, which qu coincidentally I was the one that was crating for her. Tim: Ha ha ha. Ryan Head: she which is funny, that's a little side tangent. She'd always be Tim: Perfect. Ryan Head: Well, if you're giving if you're giving me these repeats, you get to do them with me, and I was like Dang it, like I don't wanna do them and I'm like, I'm not training for this and I was like, Okay, I'll do them with you. But it was funny because we do the speed workout and we'd incorporate them into the long runs on Saturdays and she'd be like, Okay, we have like you know, ten fart licks that we're gonna do. Okay, we have eight four hundreds we're gonna do. And I'm like, dang it man, like I don't wanna do this, but I was like, Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: Okay, I'm gonna do them with her. But all of a sudden I'm doing this with her and I'm getting faster and I'm like, whoa, like this is actually translating into something really Really good. And I just think you you've got to do the speed work if you want to be faster. If you don't, it's gonna be very difficult. Yeah, you might get lucky and Tim: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: have a fast one, and maybe you're just genetically just different than the rest of us. Maybe you're you're the LeBron James of running. but you're gonna struggle. You're gonna struggle if you're not doing the speed work. So you know, you gotta do the speed work if you want to get faster. you know, just my my humble opinion. And I just like that you talk about those long runs on Saturdays and incorporating them. I think that's you know, I've never kind of I've already kind touched on that but that's key that's key you have to do that you got to be throwing those in and you've got to you've got to mimic race day that's what I'm doing tomorrow with my skyline Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: 55k I am mimicking wasat 100 tomorrow that is the whole plan for for tomorrow for for this race that's all I'm doing I I don't really care about racing it there's gonna be people there that are racing and I hope they beat me I don't care I'm using this as an opportunity for for me to test out strategy with hydration nutrition with the gear I'm wearing, it's gonna that's what we're that's what we're after. Tim: Yeah. And I think and I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but I always I always watch I don't always watch pros, but a lot of times I watch the pros and see if they d they're doing if if low mileage was what all the professional marathoners were doing, if they were doing twenty five miles a week, then you know, then my my thought process is obviously backwards. But if you look at all the pros, they're doing hundred hundred and twenty mile, hundred and thirty mile or more weeks like so There's a reason they're doing it, right? It's not 'cause it's just to do it. It's 'cause there's a reason behind it. It helps to get more fit and things like that. The other thing too that I talk about with you a lot, I don't know how many times I've brought it up with others, but and hopefully I don't I'm not trying to like make people feel bad or whatever, but just my my opinion at least. If you're if your speed works only Two miles, three miles worth of distance, it's gonna be real hard to ha hold that pace for 26 miles on race day. So, Ryan Head: Sure. Yeah. Tim: I mean, obviously maybe that's where you start at the beginning of a training block, as it's just a couple miles, but by the end, when you're close to capering, you've got to be doing ten or more miles at whatever pace you're trying to do, just dis to get the body ready to be able to handle 26 miles. Or if you're doing a half marathon. be able to handle thirteen miles or whatever it might be, your body's gotta be again, this is if you're going for a time. If you're not going for a time, then none of this probably really matters. But Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: you've got to be able to have your body ready to go to run that pace on race day. So if you think two miles is gonna do it one day during the week, I think it's gonna be a tough haul on for you on race day. But yeah, those are a couple other things I would say. Ryan Head: Well and I think you you hit it you you say it perfectly. Like, yeah, if it during the week, like on a random Tuesday, you're like, Okay, I'm gonna get some speed work in today, I'm gonna do eight, four hundreds, whatever, six six, you know, eight hundreds, whatever, four one mile repeats, great. Do it. Awesome, love it. But like you said, that that is the purpose of the weekly run or the day you know, kind of weekday runs. they're quick hitters, they're maintain fitness, keep you going. forward but those those long runs especially as the training block goes on if you've been doing this stuff leading up to you know the end of your training block you're gonna be able to start doing this and and and again you don't boil the ocean on on your very first Saturday of of the training block right you're not you're not like Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: okay well we're gonna go do 12 miles at at pace yeah on on week two like you know you're gonna get hurt you're gonna you're gonna Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: struggle I mean it is a buildup to that but like you said I mean you you always you always do this perfectly Like every training block. I mean it feels like sometime in like late March, maybe early April, as we're training for like Ogden, you're gone. And I and it's cool. Like I have no problem with it because I know you're doing what you are doing purposely. And so you're like, I'm out of here. Like I got my thing. I mean, obviously anyone that wants to stay with me, great, but I gotta do, you know, 10 miles, I gotta do 12 miles, I gotta do eight miles, whatever it is, 16 miles at race pace. And dude, as Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: you should, as you should. Every athlete that I coach, I do the exact same thing. if you want to get faster. You've got to train at that pace. And that's how it's done. And you and you said it perfectly. If if all the elites are doing it, I guarantee the all these elites aren't doing all these miles because they they just want to do it because they're addicted. I guarantee it's not that. Like, trust me, I speak from experience of running over a hundred miles in a week. I've done it multiple times, and I know you have as well. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: And running a hundred miles in a week is not fun. Like it hurts, especially for us regular people, right? Tim: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah. And and so like for me, like, yeah, if you're gonna do these your these hundred mile weeks, you're doing them with purpose. And there's a purpose behind it, and that volume is really gonna help you have better fitness. So anyways, I love Tim: Yeah. For sure. Ryan Head: it man. I I a hundred percent agree with you. Tim: Yeah, and I guess I should have point out I mean there may be some times where like if you're working on some VO two work where you're maybe you're not doing twelve miles of VO two, like twelve one mile repeats, like that's maybe not the at at five K pace or whatever, maybe that's not the r the right thing to do. But generally I think if you're doing, yeah, speed work, it's gonna be longer than yeah, just a couple of miles. But if you're doing VO two work in the in the week as well, then yeah, it's not obviously quite that long just 'cause their injury risk was high and at certain point the r the rew risk outweighs the reward at that point. So yeah, I guess I should have specified that a little bit, but I think in general most people, again in my opinion, don't do enough long speed workouts to get where they want to go as far as marathons are concerned. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I love it. I love it. And and I I agree with you. Like you you gotta you gotta do the work. at the end of the day. And whether that's the long runs, whether that's the you know, the quick hitters during the week. I mean, you gotta be consistent, you gotta do the work and and that's the end of the day, that's how you're gonna qualify to be able to stand on the race day and just be like, okay, I'm gonna go. And like you said, at the end, like if you're just there to finish, then yeah, you don't need to do any of this stuff. A lot of it just like go out and get some long runs and just try to be consistent and you're gonna have a great day running. But if Tim: Yep. Absolutely. Ryan Head: you're like, man, I want to Boston qualify, man, I really wanna get a PR, well you gotta you gotta push yourself a little bit. You gotta you gotta hurt a little bit and that's gonna help Help qualify you and get you there. So I mean, and at the end of the day, listen, guys, anybody that's listening to this episode, this is just our take on it. we've seen success, Tim: Yep, exactly. Ryan Head: we both have. you know, have I necessarily boss and qualified? No, but I have I have coached now countless individuals to Boston qualify. I've had multiple female runners who were right at three hours. I've had multiple men who are three three plus hours, and so And so I I I know what it takes. I I I can't say that I know myself personally, but I know what it takes to coach someone there. And it's just like what Tim's saying. Tim has Boston qualified again, like I said, Tim, Tim is a sub-three hour guy. He can do it multiple times in a year. The thing about it is is you know, we're just speaking from experience. We've seen it, we've Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: coached it, we've lived it. we know that this is what it takes to to be fast. if if all the elites are doing it out there. you know, you know, the Clayton, what's his last name I always forget? Clayton and yeah, and Connor Connor Mass. Tim: Peyton Young, yeah. Connor Mance, Roy Ryan Head: If those yeah. What would you say? Yeah. Tim: so Rory Link ladder, yeah, there's a bunch of guys you can watch on YouTube, they're awesome. Ryan Head: Yeah, I mean if these guys are doing what we're talking about and these guys are are winning and they're placing top ten in all the majors i mean there's there's obviously something to it so just our our humble opinion so anyways well cool dude well i want to shift gears just a little bit and talk up talk about nutrition Tim: Ha ha. Ryan Head: It might be a funny one for both of us because I try to be really good, but it's tough. And this is probably one of the biggest questions I get from my all my athletes at this time is Ryan, how do you get enough calories? How do you get enough carbs? with with training as hard as we are. Like how do you do this? And it's tough. I'm not gonna say it's easy, but yeah, what do you do, man? How are you how are you getting enough food in you? And I'm not saying that you always have to be perfectly good every day. I mean, cause it's gonna be tough to do that. But what do you do dude to fuel enough so that you're able to hit these workouts and you're able to to sustain. Tim: Yeah. So I don't know, for me I keep it pretty easy. the one thing I try to do every meal is have a protein and a fruit and a vegetable. It doesn't matter what, like but that's that's kind of my routine. I figure if I can get those three things in my body just because I think they're healthy types of food, then I'm doing okay. A lot of times I will if I get hungry, I have like a protein bar or something just to help me kinda keep full or or a protein drink, whatever I grab for the day or whatever. But th that's that's really all I do is I just try to eat as healthy as I can. I try to do a protein and a fruit and a vegetable every day. I do and sp or at every meal and sometimes I do. Sometimes I'm eating pizza at eight o'clock at night. I mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect and you know, you gotta live life a little, you gotta enjoy. You know, I don't know what your food. I I love hamburgers and st stuff like that, so and Ryan Head: Yeah, yeah. Tim: French fries. So if I occasionally I'm gonna have a hamburger and french fries, but during a marathon training block, chances are that I mean, unless you're really going crazy, it's really hard to overdo it on the calories, in a week or in a day or whatever. I have used an app in the past, I don't know how you pronounce it's called like chronometer or something like that. And it's really Ryan Head: Okay, yeah. Tim: cool. I don't I don't use it to lose weight, I use it to track to make sure I'm getting enough proteins and carbs and stuff during the day. And it it does a really good job. You just scan the little barcode on the back and it puts all the numbers in for you. So there's no yeah, Ryan Head: Nutritional facts. Tim: there's no having to figure it out yourself and it gives you a percentage of you know what you should be doing during the the day and things like that. And it adjusts with your exercise. So if you if you run ten miles and you burn little say nine hundred calories. puts it all in there for you. You don't even have to think about it. It syncs up with my Garmin Connect app. I'm sure probably does with other types of apps as well. So I don't have to do anything. I just open it up and all the information's there for me and I just scan the the barcodes or whatever and off I go. And it's keeps it super easy and it doesn't take hardly any time to do it. And so if I'm really wanting to, you know, pay attention to what I'm doing I'll use that. But most of the time I just try to keep it a a protein and a and fruit and vegetables every meal and that's that's kind of my thing. That's maybe that's boring and not what you want to hear, but it works for me and I figure, Ryan Head: No. Tim: yeah, those are healthy things to put in my body. So that's kind of the r the route I take. Ryan Head: I like I like it honestly dude and I think it's super good for people to hear this because I think so many of us are like, Man, I gotta fuel, I gotta fuel and a lot of times we're we're dragged to the heavy hitter calories of like potato chips or and again listen, I'm I'm not saying you can't have potato chips, okay? Like Tim: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Ryan Head: go have go have potato chips. If you want pizza, have a pizza, right? 'Cause you you're gonna burn it. But what I Tim: Yep. Exactly. Yep. Ryan Head: will say is don't get into the habit of that's all you're eating because like Tim's talking about, you wanna get Healthy nutrients into your body to help replenish it, right? Like he's saying, get protein in you, get a fresh fruit, get a fresh vegetables in you. It's gonna go a long way. I've really it's funny that you're talking about this and you're saying these things because I you know I've shared the story a few times with people, and I'm happy to share it on here. I don't think I've shared it so far with anybody you know, publicly, but last year when I did the Bear 100, I got to I got to the stage. Start line, and I was the heaviest I've ever been for a hundred miler, let me put it that way. and I was a little nervous because I was like, buddy, this is gonna this might hurt a little bit. And I could tell immediately I was not as fast as I wanted to be. And I was a little bit disappointed in myself, to be honest, but I was like, you know what? It's fine, go race your race. It doesn't matter what you look like, go race your race. Well, you know, sadly, and I'm and I'm not saying people can't run marathons or hundreds or anything or ultra. by being bigger. I I think anyone can run anything. I it doesn't matter your weight, size, all that jazz. But by the time I got to pick up Cody Vable at mile 85, I was hurting really bad. My knees were on fire. I couldn't even move one of my knees. Like I was like almost locked. Like it was like I was up like a peg leg out there, like hobbling around. I'm like, I can't run. I can't I can't do anything. And you know, Cody was so awesome. Cody just freaking just stays with me, just gets me through that. But I remember thinking to myself, like, you know, th it's because you're you're twenty pounds or so heavier than you were on your br from your very first or your second hundred. My second hundred was the lightest I've ever been. And I remember just telling myself, like, when we get done with this race, and after you recover, and if you get all your nutrients back in you and you get to eat whatever you want for a week or so, you we're we're gonna dial it in, like we're gonna lock in on this. And ever since then it's been awesome. I've you know, I've I've been on a I've I I push myself. This year, and at times I wanted to be bad, and I've I've been really dedicated and committed. And so I dropped about 20 pounds. my body fat percentage dropped drastically from bare last year to where it's at now, which I'm you know, I'm proud of. Again, I'm not saying you can't be bigger to run races, but Tim: Should be. Yeah. Ryan Head: but I'm proud of it. Like I I worked hard, I've been hitting the gym as you've seen. I do a lot, I try to do two days a week in of strength training. I've been really focused on doing my easy runs easy, my hard runs easy. Hard, you know, being very dedicated to that, and then like you're saying, like I try to have vegetables with every one of my meals, and I've gotten away from just eating garbage foods like top ramen, having ice cream after almost every meal. These are things that I have been like, Ryan, you gotta stop doing these things, and it's funny because I really felt the difference on Scalp Mountain when I was just climbing mountains super fast. I was like, dude, I'm I'm feeling really good, even. Even though I didn't get as much vert as I wanted, I felt like I was l I could feel lighter. And then ever since then, as I've been training all the summer climbing mountains, I f I I can tell I'm lighter and I'm feeling better. And so So it really goes back to like what we've been talking about. It it is finding a good balance. again, like you said, have I had hamburgers this year? Yes. Have I Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: had top ramen? No. I found an alternate top ramen Tim: Ha ha. Ryan Head: and it's healthier for you. So I don't eat the I don't eat the the 25 cent version. you know, I don't do that any longer. But you know, do I s have do I still have a little bit of ice cream? Of course. I like ice cream, I'm never not gonna like it. But I'm not eating it every day. It's about being disciplined, it's about finding those calories elsewhere. Really become a big fan of oatmeal. I try to eat oatmeal and chia seeds. Yeah, like once a day at least. Tim: Level mil. Yeah. Still good. Ryan Head: Yeah, I'm getting fruits in me, like you've talked about. I've been I've become a huge fan of spring mix salad. I do that once a day. super healthy for me. it's really, you know, as TMI as it sounds, it's really helped keep me regulated as well, which I've loved. It's super good for your system, and so I don't know, I feel like I've just come a long way. I feel like I did in 2024, which gets me excited about Wasatch because I'm like, okay, like this could be a special year. Wasatch was meant to be a special year in 2024, but that was my kidney stone year. And I've documented that enough time so we don't need talk about it again. But I survived Wasatch, let me put it that way, with kidney Tim: yeah. Ryan Head: stones, which is absolutely insane. But Tim: That's insane. Ryan Head: I still I sometimes wonder if I could ever do it again. But I wanted that finish so bad. It was it Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: was funny. But anyways I don't know, any other thoughts with food? I mean I know I'm kinda beat dead horse here, but Tim: No Ryan Head: but it's important I think. Tim: Yeah. And I think for me too, like, it's just amazing, how much better I feel no matter what the scale says or my b body is doing or whatever. I just every time I eat healthy I'm like, this is like how I'm supposed to feel during the day. Not not when I'm maybe during the holiday season when I've had I don't know, lots of things that probably aren't super healthy and you're just dragging all day long. It's just amazing how Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: much better I feel when I eat healthy and and f for some reason, sounds like you're kinda the same way, but like during a training Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: block I can seem to I can I can do this for twelve weeks or fourteen weeks or sixteen weeks or whatever. Like again, am I perfect? No. Life happens. Do I want a hamburger on occasion? Do I want to eat some pizza? For sure. Do I want some ice cream? Whatever, right? But I'm a lot more select on when I do it. For example, I love to go get a fizz. That's like one of my favorite things to do, right? And I think I've had one fizz in this training block and it was on my birthday. Like yeah, just little things like that. Yeah. Ryan Head: Nice. Heck yeah dude, that's awesome. Tim: And so and will I drink a whole bunch of it after my excuse me. But yeah, it's just being disciplined and it's just amazing how much better you feel when when you're eating healthy versus maybe when you're not eating quite as healthy. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I love it. And I totally agree. It's it's about being disciplined again. It goes back to that discipline. It's about that consistency. it's tough, right? I know, trust me, I wanna eat bad every day. I think about all the yummy foods I could be eating and I'm like, dude, I really do like top ramen. Like I really like the taste of it. And it but I'm like, you know, it's like a metabolism killer and dude, just don't don't play this game. And I try not to. and and you know, I again i I do go back again. The key though is you gotta make sure you're feeling yourself. I think a lot of times Tim: Yeah, you gotta get enough calories in. Ryan Head: yeah, because it's easy to not. Tim: Absolutely. Ryan Head: And that's when you're that's when you're gonna run the risk of injuries. That's when some scary things can set in and I gotta be careful about how I say this, but you know, there are stereotypes or perceptions of people and individuals throughout society and and all that jazz that that people should look a certain way. And especially running is a great way to bring calories and running is a great way to be fit. But Never sacrifice your health to look a certain way, is what I'm trying to say. That's a Tim: Absolutely. Yeah. Ryan Head: that's a scary path to go down. And I know I have permission from Jill Wilkins to talk about this, but Jill had mentioned in her episode that you know she has dealt with multiple eating disorders throughout her life, and and that's scary because at the end of the day, I think when you know, if you've ever been addicted or entrenched in something like this, sometimes you don't realize the harm you're causing to yourself. body and I don't that that's scary that that's where things are bad because a lot of times you're the only one that can help yourself and if you can't see it then bad things are are inevitably gonna happen and and so you know you gotta be careful with that you gotta make sure you get enough calories you're not operating on a zero Tim: That's it. Ryan Head: or huge huge deficits right like Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I sometimes see some people that are like yeah they all they ate that day was like some lettuce and like an apple and I'm like whoa like no like we we got To up that man, we need to get you some, you know, whatever. I don't care how you get your protein, whether it's grass-based or it's you know meat-based. Like, we gotta get you some get you some protein in you. We need to be getting you some carbs, like get some breads you, get some rice. I don't care what it is. Let's get some tortillas in you, let's get let's get going. Like, we gotta get you some carbs Tim: Something. Ryan Head: and some healthy fats. Like, let's get some fats in you as well. And you know, we do that. We got the three macros working together. Good things are gonna happen. Good things are gonna Tim: Yep. Yeah. Ryan Head: happen for you. You're gonna have enough energy to to do what you need to. So it's a scary, it's a scary thing and I know it's not probably a topic and again me and Tim are probably the least qualified to talk about this because we're more men but we do recognize that it is a serious issue and it is something that you know one I would highly recommend if someone has a problem with that that they go you know they talk to somebody whether that's a you know whether that's a a family member or a religious leader or you know a counselor psychiatrist whatever get some help Tim: Even a friend, someone. Ryan Head: yeah talk to someone about it But also I I just you know know that that it is serious and that you know we we care about you especially if you're listening to this podcast we don't we don't want you doing something that's gonna put yourself your life and and and your body in in in danger and can cause some permanent damage so anyways I'll get off my soapbox about this I just do care about people I know you do too as well we have a lot of good friends in the in this community and we just don't want anyone to be doing anything that could be really causing some damage so awesome well dude I have only one last question I wanna throw at you, but I'll I'll turn it over to you for a second. Do you do you have any any questions or any thoughts that you had that you're like, dude, I want to touch on this before we get to kind of get to the end of this. Tim: I think yeah, I was trying to think. I think I had some earlier, but I think we've we've touched on on a bunch of my you know training, you know, maybe this some of the specifics that I do at least to get where I want to be. yeah, fueling for sure is a huge one. I don't know, maybe we We haven't talked a whole lot about strength training, but it's something that I have really come to embrace the last couple of years and I it's helped me more than I think I've realized, even if it's just staying healthy or whatever, like it's just I think it's been a huge part of my last few years of being able to improve despite getting older, 'cause I'm not a young buck any anymore. And so I think Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: strength training, I think is I mean I was the same way when I first started running. there's probably a lot of people that are a lot better than I was, but I I did not go to the gym, I didn't strength train, I just purely running and it worked out fine, but I I think the benefits of strength training are way better than when I wasn't doing it. Ryan Head: Yeah. And I think we yeah, I mean, especially when you first get into running, I don't know how you were, but like when I first got into it, it was like I unlocked this door to this endorphin rush that I'd never felt before. I was like, what in the world? And I couldn't get enough of it. I still remember there'd be multiple times I'd be running home from Gold's gym that used to be in Syracuse now at COS, but I'd be Tim: The people. Ryan Head: running home from that and I remember being like, I just don't wanna go to work. Like I just wanna keep running this was like ten plus years ago, right? And I'm like, I could run for five more miles and like I wouldn't even know sit like I'm like I just want to keep running like this is a magical day but you're what you're saying is so important because it's you know you get going and you know seven you know for me it was like seven years into running all of a sudden I had major issues with my glutes which is your behind muscles Tim: I thought. Ryan Head: you're I'm having IT band issues which is that's what's causing it for me at least it did I'm having Achilles issues I'm not where I need to be with Strength training, my back's hurting me after every run, hips are on fire, and I'm like, what is going on? And it's because I've allowed these things to get weak. And like Tim, I've really made a big focus. I've done it in years past, but this year has been better, the best I've ever done for a long time about hitting the gym, and it's been good. I can feel the difference already. things are not as sore as they used to be after runs and big efforts, and it's showing, it's showing, and I think that's what's exciting about strength training. I think there is a Lot of positives to it, like you're saying, that can just absolutely change your training block and and keep you healthy for sure. 100%. Tim: Yeah, I remember when I first finally took the dive into it, I had felt like I've kinda hit a running plateau. I hadn't had any PRs in several years. And I thought I've gotta do something different, right? To if you do what you always done, you're gonna get what you've always got, right? Or whatever. So I thought what what's one thing I can do different than I something I haven't ever done before? And that's how I kinda got into it and said, Well I'll try it and see if it helps me. I mean, I don't have anything to lose at this point. I've felt like I've kinda scene where you know I could go without it. And so once I took the plunge, it I remember vividly I had trained it was I think I had done the big Contwood marathon in St. George, my little duo for some reason I always like to do every fall for whatever reason. But and I remember just not having any progress in my marathon times or whatever. And I wanted to get a new PR in the half marathon distance and so I'd set my s goals at Ogden to run a marathon PR and I remember thinking, you know, like freak, like I don't know if this is even possible or not, but I'll try strength training and see if it helps me out. And I think my goal was one twenty five or something like that in the half. And I ended up running like a one twenty three, like forty three or something like that. Like I I was significantly ahead of my goal pace that I wanted. And that was the main thing I had changed for that training block was just added strength training. And so it was after that I kinda was like, All right, yep, this is something that's obviously helped me at this race at least. And I think that year I had a PR in every distance that, you know, mile, five K, ten K, half marathon, marathon. So that's where I kinda realize like, yeah, maybe there is something to this, even though I originally didn't want to do it. But now I actually really love it. I love going to the gym and I think it's been a huge help to me. And yeah, it's just something I look forward to every day, just like my run. It's it's really enjoyable to me. Maybe it's the consistency thing with Ryan Head: That's awesome. I love it. Tim: time I've enjoyed it because at first I don't think I really loved it, but the more I've done it and and just like with anything, right? Like the more you do it, like the more you run the The more consistent you are, you get better at it and you see results. And for me, even though you really can't tell 'cause I'm it's a little strained being, but just seeing how my body's changed since I started doing it, it's been pretty fun to see. And so when you see results from doing something, it makes you more willing to do it, I think. And so it's been a a good thing for me. Ryan Head: That's super cool. Dude, that's awesome. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I just think there's a a lot of there's huge benefits to to incorporating str strength training. And I know a lot of times it's like we're runners. We're not we don't we're not gym rats. We're not doing that. That's that's the opposite. But again, I think a good healthy balance, whatever that may look like, can be just instrumental in in helping people move forward. So well, I'll throw my last question at you and then we'll we'll jump we're good. We've got some new lightning round questions for for Tim today. so Tim: Let's do it. Ryan Head: it's gonna be good. But last question I'll throw at you and this one's a kind of a good one. It kind of piggybacks off of what we started with today, which I think's good, but it's gonna be a little bit different. So we talked about how do you how do you do this? How do you keep going when we're in the middle of all this crap, right? And maybe you've experienced this, maybe you haven't. How do you deal with if you have fallen into burnout? How do you cope with Getting through this and being like, Okay, I I mean we're eight, seven, eight weeks in and I'm burnt out. Like I don't want to do this any longer. I Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: don't want to be doing this, like this is not fun. And Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: you've already taken two or three days off, maybe a week off, and you're just like, dude, I don't care. This isn't worth it. But you've already put all this work in, you've built this huge Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: fitness space, what what would you reckon? What would you say to somebody? Tim: It's funny that you say that 'cause I always it feels like the last couple of weeks of a training block I kinda get to that point where I'm like it just I don't know if I wanna be doing this anymore, but having the the taper and the race so close I always seem to be able to work through it. But again for me it's just like everything else, right? Like you have peaks and valleys in the training block and it's just one of those valleys I think that you just gotta work through. and so you you just gotta the motivation isn't super hype. Obviously at that time of your of your marathon or training block or whatever. And so it's just one of those things you just gotta get out of the door and and work through 'cause it eventually you'll get past that. And a lot of it might be or maybe not a lot, but sometimes it's there's something else affecting it. Like you're not getting enough sleep or or you're not getting enough fuel in your body or whatever to where your body's just like I I don't know if I can handle it's kind of what it seems like to me. Like your body's just like almost trying to tell you like timeout, like I need to I need a little bit of a break or whatever but I think anything else, yeah, peaks and valleys in a training block and it's one of those things you just gotta work through. even though I you know, when I get to those points I just do what I need to do 'cause again for me I can see the the goal that I wanna reach and if I start taking time off it's gonna make it that much harder to to reach that goal on race day. And so even when I'm in those days I still Go do what I need to do to get done. And and you can do like little things like change up where you're on you know, I don't know go run a trail instead of a road that day or whatever. I don't know what whatever sounds exciting whatever that's one thing I always try to do and I always try to mix up my routes. I rarely run the same route day after day. I have a route that I'd like to use for my speed workout days. That's so I'll do Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: that route twice a week. But other that, my routes are different every day just to help hopefully avoid the burnout because if I run the same route over and over and over I I get to that point where I'm like I don't want to run this again the same route over. So just try to find a way to make it fun, whether it's a different route or even running the route if you run the same route doing it backwards, like there's ways you can work around it. But yeah, that's that's what I usually do when I get to those positions. I I just try to make it as fun as I can. I try to see new things or whatever, and just you gotta know that eventually it'll pass. It's just one of those things, and you just Just gotta keep plugging away and you'll you'll work through it and then usually you hit, you know, a high at that point and something good has happened during a training week and you're ready to rock and roll again. So you just gotta keep working, be consistent, like kinda like we've talked about almost from the beginning of this, and you'll work your way through those those burnout times for sure. Ryan Head: Yeah. No, I love it. Thank you for sharing that. I think those are really good. I always say like on, you know, Wasatch or any of my ultras that I've done, you know, you you go through these phases and a lot of times it seems like they're at night where you just go through these like you said, you're you're at peaks where you're like, Man, life is good and then you go through these valleys where you're like, dude, I hate everything about this. And and and and that's life, right? Like this is life in general. But you just s you have to you have to keep enduring and going through. Now, the one thing I would say too, 'cause you know, obviously I'm gonna tell people like, yeah, you gotta push through and and you've got to say, hey, listen, like, you know, keep fighting, keep going, you're gonna make it. but on the flip side of that too is you know I've had I I just actually had an athlete who backed out of a race and you know the the thing that I would say to someone like that is, you know, I think if your heart's not in it, your mind's not there, if you if there's a lot of things going on in your personal life, whether that's with work, your relationships, whatever, Do what's do the right thing. Do the do what's the priority in life and and be present and you know running's always gonna be there. Running's always gonna be there for Tim: Exactly. Ryan Head: anybody. And you can always go do the another race. It may not be the exact same race and you know just come back and do it another time. But running will always be there. So if if it's not if it's not the right time, punt the race, you know, defer it, whatever. Just don't show up. Your life's gonna go on. You're gonna be fine. be present. And you know, at one of my athletes, this is the conversation we just had barely and and I was just like listen I'm not talking you into this like you want it you gotta you gotta want it but I'm like I just need you to know that like I support you 100% if you're like I'm not doing it like I'm out because there's just there was a lot going on in their life and and I I respect that I respect that 100% and would never be like man you you're you know you're backing out awful no Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: no it's it's awesome I'm glad I'm glad they're doing the right thing and so so I like what you said there there is an aspect that you gotta fight through it and push through and and that heaven knows that's like life in general there's always peaks and and peaks and valleys Tim: reality, life is far more important than running. If you have obligations in your life that Ryan Head: Totally. Tim: are more important than by all means, like that's the route you take. But yeah, I mean if it if it's just 'cause you're yeah, tired of running or whatever, then I don't know. For me it's races are the same way too. Like I always have a f a few miles and I'm sure I'm more than certain you have this with one hundred miles, but there's times where miles that just feel tough and you're just kinda Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: like, What am I doing? type of a thing. But if you just keep working your way right through it, it usually goes away. Like I always seem to have a few miles in a marathon where like, man, I don't feel super great. And then after a Ryan Head: Yep. Tim: couple of miles it goes away and okay, I feel fine, but you just gotta keep plugging away and training's the same way, you know, you get burnout, but if you just kinda keep just moving forward, it you'll work through it and Five stars better Ryan Head: Yep. Tim: at the other side. Ryan Head: Yep. Hundred percent agree. It's exactly what happens with me every time on races, every time, even on marathons, road marathons when I've done them. I'm like, dude, there's miles like you're saying. I'm like, this sucks. Like I don't want to be running this any longer. And I'm like, just endure, just endure. It's gonna get better. It won't always feel this bad. You know, especially if you've been dehydrating and eating and all this other, you're gonna be fine. Just be patient with yourself. And Tim: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: yeah, you're you're a hundred percent right. So no, I love it, man. Love it. Great analogies for life. So well, cool, dude. Well Well, if you if we got nothing else, I think this has been a great episode. I think we've got a lot of really good, marathon training tips. whether we're talking about locking in, being consistent. whether we're talking about speed work, we're talking about the value of sleep, recovery, rest weeks, you know, and so on and so forth. We've ta we've touched on some really good topics. So I think this has been amazing, dude, and really appreciate that you've taken the time to you know come on and and you really you came up with this idea after you heard me and Eric's episode. And you know, I kind of was like with me and Eric's episode, I was like, we'll be able to touch on both roads and and trails. And I'm like, We didn't even really touch on roads at all. So I love that you were like, dude, we should remain considered doing one for roads and I think it's been this has been great. I think we've touched on a lot of things that really are there's always crossovers like I said from the get-go but this has been more focused towards roads and I think that's that's awesome. well dude you okay if we do some new lightning round questions for ya Tim: Well to do it. Let's see what you got today. Ryan Head: I know. I think it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be different. It is gonna be completely new questions, maybe a couple of crossovers here or there. okay, dude, you ready? Tim: Ready? Ryan Head: All right, let's do it. What is your favorite shoe? And it doesn't, it could be any type of shoe, whether Tim: Hmm. Yeah. Ryan Head: it's long miles, easy miles, race day shoe, tempo shoe. What is your favorite shoe? Sure. Let's do two. Tim: Can I do two? Okay, all right. Two. All right. my favorite sh all around shoe of all time. and again, everyone's different. their shoe might not work for them, but for me, it's just like the perfect shoe. You can do easy runs in them, you can do speed work in them. I love to use them for long runs. It does everything really well, and so Sokney endorphin speed. Ryan Head: Yeah. Great shoe. Tim: and it's just for me it does everything so well and it's just an awesome shoe all around. The one downfall at least for me is I burn through pretty quick. If I can get three hundred miles on then I'm doing good. But usually I can't even get three hundred miles out of So I do I do have to buy a lot of pairs of just 'cause they don't last a long time, just 'cause I run really weird. Maybe people can get more on but so I love the Socony Endorphin speed though. It's an awesome shoe and you can do everything really well in it. my favorite shoe maybe that I've ever ran though so far is my Socony Endorphin Elite one. It was the super high performance racer that they came out with and it was it was interesting. The first time I put it on, I always do a few warm up miles before I do it. on a on the long run before I remember thinking, man, this shoe just feels so clunky. Like well, I don't get the hype behind it. But then once I started doing marathon pace, the shoe was completely different shoe. And I have never ran in a shoe that's made me feel I don't know, superman like, but like just I moved so much more efficient and quicker in that just 'cause how it's built and the spams and the carbon plate and stuff that's in it. But it was it it was a really cool shoe I sat this year when I had to retire it. I did buy the endorphin link three. I gotta give it a go here in about three weeks and see how I like it. It's super squishy, which the one really wasn't but anyways I'm curious to see how that goes. But those are my two Ferret shoes that I that I've ever ran and probably Ryan Head: Nice. Well he's a big Socney fan. It's good to see. I'm kind of all over the place. I would say my favorite road trainer is the New Balance 1080s. I love that shoe. Tim: Grace you. Ryan Head: yeah, it is I know it's very similar to Socony rides, but man, I'm just in love with that with the New Balance. So just a great shoe. Tim: Yeah. I've owned a pair and I I loved Ryan Head: Kay. go ahead. Tim: mine as well. But it was kinda like the endorphin for me, the endorphin speeded. I didn't get a lot of miles out of it before it was kinda just worn out. But yeah, Ryan Head: Mm. Tim: super comfy shoe, but Ryan Head: That's awesome. Okay, next lightning round question. Throw at ya Tim: Okay. That was a good one. I liked that one. Ryan Head: favorite gel. Tim: Ha ha Like the one that works the best for me or like so I I Ryan Head: Whatever. It could be it could be your favorite tasting to like the one that just sets so well for you on race day. Tim: I I use the Martin Gels mostly just 'cause they've worked so well for me in the past. However, after about three or four of they kinda get hard to take down for me, like I I'll still use obviously, but they get harder and harder for me to consume as the race goes on or a long run or whatever. They work really great though, so I s I haven't ever sh shied away from but this training block maybe people think I'm crazy, but I use s the knack cooling mint gels. I don't know if you've ever tried or not. It sounds super weird. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yep. Tim: But like during running to get a fresh minty taste in my mouth is I've really enjoyed it so And they have more carbohydrates actually than the Martin Gels do. So the last little bit I've been doing, I've been rotating between Martin Gel and then a Nat Cool gel just to give me some variety. Ryan Head: Nice. Yeah. Tim: And I the for whatever reason I really like that mint flavor while I'm running. So those are the two that I've been using Ryan Head: Nice. Tim: this training block. Ryan Head: Nice. Okay. Next lightning room question. Run in 100 degree temps or 10 degree temps Fahrenheit. Both are Fahrenheit. Tim: give you I'll let you guess which one I'm gonna pick. Ryan Head: Well, I already know what it is. Tim: Ha ha. Ryan Head: you go. I already know. I this is you answer, not me. I already know which one you're gonna choose. Tim: I I am not a fan of the cold. if you ever seen me like the group runs, it's funny to to watch like me and Ryan run together or like when Matt Sandstrom is with us as well, 'cause they're like in shorts and like T shirts and I have like four layers of clothes on 'cause I hate being cold and have battery operated hand warmers in my gloves and stuff 'cause I just hate being cold. So I'll t I'll take hundred degree days ten times out of ten over a ten degree day. What about Ryan Head: Nice. Tim: you? Ryan Head: Okay. Noah. I'm definitely a cold weather guy. I hate the heat mad. I you know, the funny thing is I always joke, Jacob Bateman busted on me the other day. He says, you know, if Ryan Head's running a race, it's gonna be hot and he's so freaking right. It doesn't it don't matter what race I'm doing. If it if I'm running an ultra it's gonna be hot and I'm just Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I think I've accepted my fate at this point, so he's right. I don't Well go ahead. Tim: Might as well just en I say might as well just start enjoying the hundred degree days, Ryan. Not the ten degree days. Ryan Head: No, I mean yeah, I mean again, tomorrow, same deal. Scout was that deal. His Tim: Yep. Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: ch his Bear River trail race was that deal. I'm like I can't catch a break, man. You know, it's always gonna be hot, so I i it's fine. It is what it is. I'm over it. But Tim: Well, you're w you're well adapted to those and you always perform well in the heat, so you have it figured out, even though you don't particularly care for it. Ryan Head: Yeah. I mean and you know it's funny because it it that you know, the reason why I I feel like I've got a good grasp on it is because I just go back to my very first Wasatch and and I even take it back further than that. I just remember some of my first early marathons when it was really, really hot and how I just fell apart, right? And I swore I'd never let that happen again. And then when everybody said on Wasatch in, you know, my very first in twenty twenty three, they were like the heat. That's your that's should be number one concern. I knew that was it. then I thanks to you, you were the one that gave me most of my good Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: information to how to attack heat training and Tim: Heat training. Yeah. Ryan Head: yep, and it's just worked. It's worked really well. And like you said, I can I do it? Yeah, I can I can do it. Do I like it? No. But I don't want to do it. I'm like, Tim: You can definitely do it. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: can it just be cold? I love when it's a I love when it's like forty to fifty-five degrees. You give me forty to fifty-five. Yeah, buddy, I can I can do some I can do some fun stuff. So anyways. Tim: I'm actually totally with you. If I can get like a forty five degree forty to forty five degree start line, let's rock and roll 'cause that's Ryan Head: Yeah, buddy. Tim: pretty optimal, at least for racing for sure for me. I totally agree there. Ryan Head: easily. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah. Just a t shirt, maybe some gloves, shorts, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna have a good day. Tim: Yep. My hands are usually a little numb and that's okay 'cause in half hour or an hour you're glad you were cold at the beginning of the race 'cause it's getting hot. Ryan Head: Yep, exactly. Okay, a little bit of a side question, not running related. Dogs or cats? Tim: Dogs. Ryan Head: I love it. Tim: Though I ironically ironically, my neighbor has a cat and they have some family living over at their house right now and they have a dog and so the cat has decided it wants to come live at our house now instead of over at their house and so it's on our porch twenty three hours a day and we have a little bowl of water out so it can drink and things I think it only goes back to its house to eat. And the rest of the time it's at our house. It just sits on our porch all day long. And that's pretty funny. But yeah, so definitely I'm definitely a dog person. But the cat I don't mind cats either. They're they're both great. But Ryan Head: That's awesome. Okay. Last, this is gonna be rapid fire. You can only use one word for all of these. This is gonna be pretty this is gonna be pretty fun. I'm excited, okay? so it is one word only. That's all you can say. Whatever word comes to your head, just say it. It'll be this is gonna be this is gonna be funny. Boston Marathon. Tim: Okay. Okay. Do we need to put a censored sign up? Ryan Head: I know, right? I know. Boston Marathon. Tim: One word? Epic. Ryan Head: Yep. Western states one hundred. Tim: Intriguing. Ryan Head: Yes, yes, I love it. Intriguing. Okay, good, good, good, good. Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Why not? Tim: Ca can I say why really fast? I know I'm not supposed to be so like I'm ninety nine percent sure I will never run a hundred mile race, right? But I love Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: this maybe this sounds weird. I love watching I watch western western states every year on YouTube. I'll watch almost the entire thing and I'm always blown away how fast those people mean. What was the finisher? Thirteen hours this year to go a hundred miles? Like that is unbelievable. Ryan Head: Something like that, like third Yeah, insane. Tim: So anyways, I do love watching it. Ryan Head: Insane. Tim: I am intrigued by that race and several others actually, but I'll never run. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Okay. One word, one word, so here we go. Tim: Yeah, okay. Ryan Head: Heat. Tim: Let me think enjoyable. Ryan Head: Okay, snow. Okay. Tim: More fun to run in the snow than than when it's just eight degrees outside and the weather sucks. Snow's at least fun. Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: So anyway, sorry. Ryan Head: Caffeine. Tim: Hmm, nor here nor there. I'll drink it. my favorite drinks are probably caffeinated, but I don't drink it 'cause of the caffeine. this is supposed to be one word, sorry. Ryan Head: One w One word dude, one word, what one word for caffeine. Tim: Hm One word fine. Ryan Head: Fine. I was expecting Pooh. That works, finish line. Tim: One word, huh? Is it worth it one word? Ryan Head: Well t we'll take it. Two words is okay on that. Worth it. Community. Tim: Everything. Ryan Head: Last one. Ultra running. Tim: Dumb. Ryan Head: Love it dude. Anyways. Tim: No, I I'll say this and I've maybe I've probably said this like a thousand times. I am intrigued by him. Like I watch so many Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: documentaries, like the Barclays, like and I sit there and think, why would people ever do this? Like, it makes no sense to me. Like every time you do one of those races, I'm like at probably mile fifty, like, this isn't fun anymore. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like s and I always want running to be fun, but I'm I am intrigued by him. I watched tons of documentaries. I watch like I said, Western States every year. I watched Cocodona, Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: not all of it, but a bunch of it for the first time this year. And yeah, like it's it's intriguing to me for sure, but I will I won't ever dip my toe in the water. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Well, cool, dude. Well, this was really fun, man. you know, again, always a pleasure to have you on, dude. I love your insight. Tim: Thanks. Ryan Head: I love your thoughts. dude, you're not only just a great runner, but you're an awesome person in the community. I think so many of us just look up to you and and appreciate who you are as an individual. So, dude, I just I end by just saying thank you just for being who you are, man. And I think so many of us are are grateful for you and and yeah, it's been fun having you on multiple times this season. And I think we'll probably at least have you on one more time before we wrap this season up and move into season two next year. But dude, thank you so much. Thanks for being on tonight. Coach Ryan Head: Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y.