Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / Diversity and Inclusivity

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Diversity and Inclusivity · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Speaker 2: So what I'll try and do is I'll try and paste the two recordings together. Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet. Speaker 2: Okay, so we're talking about Gary Gilmore, high-risk ⁓ teenage girls and boys. See the difference too with boys, ⁓ Like when I talk about gender differences, it's so vital in understanding human development. Because with the girls, when they acted out, it was always internalized, like putting needles in their flesh. trying to feel pain because they had numbed themselves so deep, so psychologically deep. But with the boys, when they acted out, it was more sexual. There were more incidents of like oral sex, like Felicia. How do you say the technical word? Yeah, Felicio. And then also anal. So, incidences were... Speaker 1: Please show. Speaker 2: they had to be, you know, the behavior had to be dealt with. Those things like as ⁓ psychiatric aides and how we documented behavior while they're, you know, away from their classrooms, you cause it was like 24 seven lockdown. But again, like I said, even with Roper Hall Home, it's a different setup. I know they have cottages. ⁓ Even too, like when I was looking after my ⁓ teenage niece and nephew. Like I said, my niece was high risk and she ⁓ was put into a foster home, a group home in Calgary, and she was trafficked out of there. So, you know, like when you're mentioning about this young woman who passed away, you know, these ⁓ kids falling through the cracks, like even when, you know, sometimes I get into some TikTok where they're talking about the justice system and ⁓ justice and ⁓ sovereignty. And I just go, ⁓ if somebody could just make it simple, like the terminology, so people could get the gist of the complexity of what Indigenous people are fighting for. Because the cross-cultural lack of information in terms of how I live in my home as compared to how people in the city live. Like, for example, like you just heard my nephew wanting my signature for my sister's home. You know, where they're going to put it, everybody has to agree on it. Traditionally, like even for me, because I'm a matriarch, I'm the oldest in my family, it's very important that they get a checkmark from me. Because, you know, my brother could cause trouble for me. And this is like, I said, he hasn't even talked to me. for over a decade. And there's always this jealousy or this, I don't know for what, well, I know for what reason, my mother, like I had this one lady, ⁓ my goodness, she asked me, you were Mormon? How did that happen? And I'm going, it's a long story. Do you have time? Like does she, like hello? Speaker 1: What I there's a native that is a predominant journalist now and, you know, like 10 years ago, she was, you know, a Zionist and a Christian and, you know, now and worked for the UCP or at that time, the progressive conservatives and wild rose, cetera. Yeah. You know, and has since, you know, gone down the red road, reclaim their identity, reclaim their indigeneity. and no longer identifies as a Zionist, longer, you know, it goes back to their old ways. So, I don't know, I wish more people understood the gravity of how forced Christianity, forced belief system onto people. ⁓ like, I never question why somebody who might be Mormon would be doing that because... I know what they did to us. My mom is a staunch Catholic. Every morning she wakes up and she watches the Catholic prayers and does her prayers. And when she dies, I know I have to do a Catholic funeral to respect her. And that I hope and I pray will be the last time I'm forced to go to a Catholic church. I hope that legacy of Christianity dies with that. Speaker 2: With my mother, ⁓ she'd always say, why are you having the Mormons come? I said, because, Mom, you need to be social. You need to be social. You need to be talking to other people other than myself. And she agreed. says, when I die, I just want one Indigenous person to read from one scripture in the Mormon church, and that's it. Didn't want anybody else to get up and talk. And so I did the best I could. Speaker 1: sure. Speaker 2: But like I said, my brother hasn't talked to me since she died. And because again, shunning, what the hell? Like you feel superior because you're shunning the way other Mormon people shun people? Like I have a friend in California, I met her in Utah, and she's married to a Lakota man who was raised in the foster care system in the Mormon church. Now, when I lived in Utah, I was around a lot of Native Americans who were foster children. who were indoctrinated into the Mormon faith. And I try and say this to people, the most educated ⁓ indigenous kids are Mormon kids because they were raised in foster home. Now get this, when I was a child, like I say eight, a lot of the Sutana were recruited and were all expenses paid to Mackinac Island, Michigan ⁓ for an organization called Moral Re-Arnament. And they were indoctrinating and teaching them how Like the absolute of honesty, purity, unselfishness, absolute love. And that's the foundation of the Oxford group, which is the foundation of AA. But all this started in the middle of World War II and gravitated into the Americas so that the, the, the, this moral rearmament was indoctrinating again, using Christian values and beliefs that us poor indigenous people were so fucking lost that, Hey, You know, like look at Machu Picchu, look at all these pyramids and all this development that, you know, like, yeah, we know you contributed those things like the 60 % of the vegetables that are now marketed in the world. know we Native Americans have done this and we know you have the potential to be great leaders in the future. Now this is indoctrination and ideology from like what, 70, 60 years ago. Now at the same time, there prophesying that there going to be Native American leaders in the world. So they recruited people from all over North America, like in Canada and the United States. Because when I was in Utah, I met a Sioux woman who had been indoctrinated by moral rearmament in Mackinac Island, Michigan. Now, as the money dwindled and once they got their claws into South America and India, because they were promoting capitalism in communist countries, Once they got their claws financially, because millionaires in the United States, they just sort of pooh-poohed the Native Americans. And so here you have Native Americans still looking for an answer. And the Mormon church comes in, takes them into ⁓ foster care, starts indoctrinating them and saying, someday you delight some, what the fuck? Speaker 1: You're either Speaker 2: There will be a Native American prophet that's going to run the entire world, the entire church of Jesus Christ the Latter-day Saints. I kid you not. Kids, they were children who were indoctrinated, totally believing that if they got educated and if they denied their savageness, their savage way of living, that some one of them would be the leader of the entire Mormon faith. And believe me, It even got to the point where they had ⁓ one of the 70s who was Navajo. He graduated and he was promoted within the patriarchal structure of the Mormon church to be almost like one of the 12. He was in the group of 70, which is the next level to the group of 12 and then the prophet. So the likelihood in the propaganda of promoting a Native American was so entrenched in the Mormon faith and it still is. That's why when I talk about Nathan Chasing Horse meeting my family, and obviously meeting a lot of other ⁓ ex-Mormons or ⁓ Mormons who aren't totally active, but understanding the doctrine that someday there was going to be this miracle worker that either was born or going to be born. And the fact that ⁓ Nathan used that became very public about polygamy in 2007. Prior to that, a lot of the people who knew him that I met in Las Vegas, he wasn't so open about it. They sort of knew he had teenagers on the side, but he wasn't so open about it until 2007. But even then, collecting tithing from people in my community, like my older niece collecting money for him, and even how much money he demanded from people. So he could do ceremony? different than other religions that try to promote. It's just like a big racket. my ⁓ talking about him, some people say, ⁓ well, you're obsessed. It's not the individual I'm obsessed about. It's the, what they call it, ⁓ ideology of it, the crux of it. Speaker 1: Thanks Speaker 2: the audacity that you have white privilege still pushing this bullshit on a lot of vulnerable Indigenous youth who either have been ashamed or felt some sort of guilt by their white foster parents. You know, some like, ⁓ my goodness, you know, like, we got to wash the red out of you. See, when my friend in California, she's known me like for 30 years. She's Japanese American. And she says, well, I'm going to come to Las Vegas. She didn't. She didn't because her Lakota husband is so ashamed to be Indigenous. I mean, he practices like he smudges and his grandchildren dance at powwows. But he's so indoctrinated into being a foster child. His foster brother died and right away he's right there. Like I've seen so many I've seen so many Native American foster children whose white foster parents have such a hold on them that they will drop anything at the drop of a hat and attend to them. Like as if they owe them something. And I'm going, you don't own them, owe them nothing. And you know, and the fact that like here I am critiquing Nathan Chasinghors Lakota, her husband didn't like it. And so she had the opportunity to come and just you know, visit with me in Las Vegas. She chose not to. so, and they had the means to, they had the means to come and visit me. But when I called her and you know, her husband's there, right away he put a tape, he put a tape in his car. She's talking to me while they're driving. And it was all Mormon doctrine. I was going, ⁓ no. I had never. Until I went to Utah, had never seen any religious fanatics so fanatical that like they have tapes and videos and just the whole thing. Like if you don't go to church on Sunday, you put on that video or like even the Deseret radio station and ⁓ it's so entrenched. It's so entrenched that it's like, ⁓ well, if I'm not there, at least I've got somebody to listen to. People don't realize until they actually live in Utah? do we actually live there? You don't realize just how entrenched Mormonism is. I mean, when somebody says, you got a green card? How come you're not living in the States? going, like if he lived in Utah, would you ever go back to United States? Speaker 1: Yeah, I got my taste. Speaker 2: Yes. Just the whole cowboys and Indians. ⁓ just it's just like I said, I. Mind you, I worked with lot of Mormon people, because I worked full time to go to school there. And I've been around white people my whole life. Like I said, I have white uncles too. But the reality of it is that, like you, your white father. See, my indigenous aunties, just like when you're talking about your mom and the loneliness and the isolation, I saw that with my aunties. I saw sometimes how they treated my mother and my ⁓ uncle. I only had one uncle, like indigenous uncle. The rest were all, they were all white. But my actual mother's brother, they basically shunned my mom and her brother because they chose to marry indigenous people. They lived in First Nations communities, whereas the aunts and the first cousins, they've lived in rural, Prairie towns or ⁓ in cities and and my cousins like in in Sioux Valley when we talk about see the Sioux's have been mixing for hundreds of like almost 200 years before They even came into Western Canada. So yeah, like I say my great-grandmother had blue eyes And again, they spoke and they wrote they were literate in Sioux ⁓ just the fact that they chase them out of the state of Minnesota. Any kind of progress or any kind of jealousy, there was always people promoting hatred towards anybody who had a brain. Like it's that lateral violence and it goes into really historical violence. So when I talk to you and I'm saying to people, no, this is the reality of gender apartheid. when you're a matriarch and say your mother's a matriarch and once she married she was cut off lost her status lost her community lost every connection that was going to support her with her children and yeah and these white men like like there was a Colombo chastewashti I said to him he's white European I said you know you don't know the history I said when an indigenous woman marry a white man I said if there was had problems and were arguing if he was infant, know, cheating or if it was beating the Jesus out of her. I said, you know, he, he, had total control over her. She couldn't run home. She couldn't run home. I said here in my community, you know, I grew up seeing women being battered, but they were home. You know, the women who actually grew up here, the ones who married in were, were, you know, like just the, the, the shame and the projection of ⁓ jealousy on people who grew up here. Like that gender apartheid is so entrenched with family violence. And for me to try Speaker 1: I'm just going to say it's really relevant right now because of the S2 conversation that's happening federally and why we don't need to have more consultation. But also, ⁓ two really bad instances of bullying and beating up from two Indigenous girls here in Alberta. One was at Siksika and the other was in Red Deer. One in Siksika They actually bit off her lip. Yes. What in red there? ⁓ yeah. They beat her so bad that she, don't know if she's going to have permanent eyesight loss even. Yeah. Yeah. So like, this is the type of violence that originates through these policies of gender apartheid that you're referring to in today in 2026. Speaker 2: Yes, and that's why like when I ran away from home and I came back, just the lateral violence towards me, they shamed me. For what? Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not your fault. Speaker 2: And yet, even when I become the Virgin Mary. And then people go, like, why did you choose to live this lifestyle? I'm going, hello. Speaker 1: You are! Any reasons? Sit down, girl. Speaker 2: I feel like Shakespeare in repeating a sonnet or ⁓ some sort of Ember pentameter or some... Like it's like rhythm in my speech so people can sort of get hypnotized into the reality like, can you hear me? Understand gender apartheid, lateral violence, fawning, limerence. You know, all this shit. I mean... Speaker 1: Okay, well, and let's take it outside of here as well. Like in Korea, the men have made life so poor that the women there have said no more sex. They're actually gonna be closing ⁓ elementary schools because of the lack of women reproducing because this capitalist patriarchal hellscape that's now global has made it so poor for women to exist. So we are at the point where A lot of women are choosing abstinence rather than the ridiculousness of this hellscape that we're in. Speaker 2: Yes, and the reality too is like I think even male fragility, white male fragility, because I think white men are the most dangerous. And for the life of me, like with Chashti Waste, I'm going, you don't know how dangerous you are. know, he's going, I like, yeah, I'm white and I have privilege. I'm going, no, you don't get it. You you love America. Well, why the hell do you love America? Think about it. You're a white. privileged man. You know, my white friend, says, the most dangerous men I've encountered are my own white men. I was traveling, she was 18 traveling in England. And she says a group of white guys, five of them approached her. Like they give themselves permission to attack. All they want to do is give themselves permission and they'll do it as a group because they think that they're so privileged they can get away with murder. ⁓ Speaker 1: It can and like, so I was watching a video on TikTok and it was ⁓ transgender men. So these are people that were born women and had trans transitioned into men. And they actually talked about how much ⁓ lower expectations there are for them and how rampant misogyny is in male circles with the assumption because they're male passing that these are all men. And so like it's a real thing. And they talked about how wild it is to experience that at all and how weird it is for them because when you're groomed and conditioned in a patriarchy as a woman, when you're little, once you get older and you have choices, it's amazing how different the world is based off of your gender. Speaker 2: Exactly. my friend, she's ⁓ in Montreal right now and she's 66. And she has a friend who's an instructor at Grant McEwen in Edmonton. Now her friend lost her husband. so she called, like I call my friend too when I need, you know, just someone to listen to, like how we're talking. And she was saying, She said, my friend has just got this anxiety. Like she lost her husband. She had stayed in her home since she was a child. then because of financial reasons, she had to give up her childhood home. Now she's in a smaller apartment and she's got pets. But even then, the anxiety and just the things she's going through, because she was in a relationship for 30 some odd years, almost 40 years. And then he dies on her. How dare he die on her? You know, patriarchy. so my friend, she's like, cause like, you know, I've never been married. I like, when sometimes when I think about what chash to a Shtey or just men in general, I think some men don't realize like, no, I'm, I'm an elder, but I'm naive, but hey, don't think you can pull the wool over my eyes. I'm not that fucking naive. Like, she, so my friend says, she says she, she. She says, well, she walked, you know, did his laundry, did cooking. She obeyed him. She obeyed her husband. Everything and anything around her life had revolved around what he said and what she was allowed to do. And she's an instructor. She got she's, you know, educated. But it's the patriarchy that she she was so attached to the male patriarchy when it comes to matriarchal. The matriarchal part of being a woman is she's so detached from it. I made a comment and my friend was like in shock. said, I said, you know, if she even tries to be sexually active, she's going to be attracting predators, white male predators. And my friend says, no, she'll never do that. I said, no, but I'm trying to say to you the energy and what she is doing and displaying. She has to protect herself because of the patriarchy out there. that will just sort of their ⁓ hormones or their, ⁓ what they call triggers that will arouse these men because of how fragile and vulnerable she is, is dangerous because she hasn't developed any kind of matriarchal structure to support herself. She's been dependent on her husband all these years. So. Like, say for example, even my sister, like you heard the comment, she's moving back here. She left when she was like 18 and 19, married into patriarchy in the Mormon faith. And now she's returning home only because her husband is dying. Totally into patriarchy. Now she's gonna transition back into su t'ina, which again, like matriarchy, you heard my nephew. wanting my signature because I'm matriarchal. The respect, like you heard the respect he had in his voice to me. Again, that's matriarchal. And I try to explain that to white women. I said, you you've been in a matriarchal, you've been in a patriarchal system when you get older. And that's why we're talking about like, what was it Taiwan you said? Speaker 1: Korea. South Korea, think is where they basically have had, you know, they're banning the way sex with men and as a result, it's absolutely going to change their population. Speaker 2: Yes. And even ⁓ like with what Chashti washiteh, when I'm trying to educate them about the way white men treated their indigenous wives and how it really had an impact on their children. And I use my first cousin as an example. said, I know where I live. Not one of them have come even to visit me. Because they're so entrenched in their patriarchy of their dads. The matriarchal system in terms of being a Dakota woman is totally lost on them. said, even then to the diversity within indigenous cultures like Sutena being matriarchal, the Crees being matriarchal, there's a common element in there. But yet you have had the Indian agents indoctrinate traffic, groom all men and women, this infantilization of like, how high do you want me to jump? your majesty, you know, because they represent the queen or the king, know, forever. Once they put us on our, you know, on land and say, no, this is where you're going to stay and you have to obey us. And that that whole fawning like that they indoctrinated into residential school, that these kids were so afraid of white people because they were afraid to ⁓ even cause a little ruckus. So for me, I, I. ⁓ When I tried to talk to what shosh to wish day and I say, you know, this is patriarchy, you know, and the fact too is like, well, like even on TikTok, bless TikTok, I kid you not. I think I've had more sex education on TikTok. Speaker 1: Right? It's so great. Speaker 2: Yeah, like male, like men, how many times they have an erection at night or when they wake up in the morning, they should have a woody, you know, I'm I'm going, I've never had that. I've never had like, you know, when people look at me and they're going, you what? I said, no, I've never had, I've never slept with a man my whole life, like my whole life. So, you know, waking up with somebody who has an erection or even sleeping next to someone who Speaker 1: Yeah. You know it's funny. Speaker 2: has erections throughout the night, like totally alien to me, like I'm on a different planet here. But the reality of it is like when a man realizes that that's his nervous system, that's telling him that his body is healthy and that if this doesn't happen throughout the night and in the morning, know, hey, that's a red flag, you need to go to the doctor and get yourself checked up. See, who would have thought? But instead here are these men just going, ⁓ I'm so powerful. I have so much testosterone. I'm going ⁓ excuse me you're not like God's gift to women and again even with women like that like Like I said my friend was in shock when I said no if your friend ever decides to Find a partner just to have an intimate like be sexual I said this is the kind of men she's gonna attract and I think that's the critical case too with a lot of ⁓ Women who've grown up in patriarchy. This is just my opinion is that they're so afraid that they just don't want to have sex anymore. They'd sooner congregate as like a coven and be in the safety of it. And it's historical. They're like, many witches did they burn in England? why did the Catholic, why all of a sudden did they have nuns? Because women chose not to be sexually active, but in order for them to protect themselves. See, even for me, ⁓ You know, this is what I was trying to say to Wachash to Wachate because he represents patriarchy. My being open and intimate in conversations with him, I have to protect myself. I have to literally protect myself because of the way patriarchy is and how they perceive indigenous women. Now, my trying to get across to him and I sometimes, you I'd say to him, you're just damn lucky I have white uncles. You know, cause I'm trying to say to him, you know, you may see me as a nice person, but I'm not this nice person when it comes to all white men. I can't afford it. have to be. Yeah. And even like, even women, like older women, like my friend, she. Speaker 1: None of us really can. Speaker 2: I met her at the BAM Center and I'm so totally grateful. Like even last week too, I went to a dinner ⁓ with the ⁓ public arts, with the ⁓ arts commons type of organization, with Indigenous artists and elders. And I said, you know, this week we lost a ⁓ brilliant... ⁓ know, an artist, Chris Derrickson, said, I met her, you know, I think a decade ago at the Bam Center and like there was ⁓ Jeremy Dutcher, ⁓ Jessica McMahon, Ian Cushion, ⁓ Sonny Ray Day Chief, I think, Day Rider. ⁓ You know, just they were all into opera like orchestras and... shit like that. just, you know, I always commented like how talented because by then Chris Derrickson had already set that up at the BAM Center and just the, what is it, like when you're open, you're non-binary? Am I using the right term? Speaker 1: Non-binary is right. That's right. I know they identified as two-spirit for sure. I don't know if they identified as non-binary. I haven't seen that written, but that doesn't mean media got it right. Speaker 2: Well, were like even to the addressing ⁓ them as they and they and them instead of him and her. It's just the respect that she put out there that she because it's addressing all genders. Yeah. And that's what's so impactful. Like for me as an indigenous elder trying to talk about healthy human sexuality and that there's no shame. When you, you, or how to, not shame. Shame is good because you need to heal. You need to feel it in order to heal. What I'm trying to say is there's no guilt. Yeah. Because you're open about it and you're engaging and you're being diverse about it. I, you know, I like to me, that's what's lost. It's yes, she was talented. She was, you know, she networked with so many people. But I think it's the diversity of the amount of people she networked with, or they networked with, pardon me, out of respect for they. It's just phenomenal. And that's the whole purpose of why I try to talk about lateral violence and how it's important to support young people. Life is so dangerous out there, just for being Indigenous female. I can't even comprehend. like to be open and just how people are trying to exclude so much and that our young people are so brave and have so much courage. You know, I know I'm emotional because, you know, I can feel it. Yeah, I agree. Speaker 1: I feel it too. Yeah. Speaker 2: And you know, that needs to be recognized. think too, even when I talk about the lateral violence towards me as an Indigenous woman and the fact that even within my own family, ⁓ because like... You know, people say, ⁓ well, why did you become Mormon? Yeah, good question. My sister, my sister, like she, for decades, she's been saying that I'm gay. I'm a lesbian. Even in the seventies, when I went to Utah, she was so morally right about her ex roommates being lesbian or so-and-so being gay or homosexual. And I'm going, this Mormon doctrine, like, excuse me. I mean, it was so prevalent. There was so much lateral violence towards me in that little town, that little town of Native Americans projecting it towards me because I chose not to date. I chose not to succumb to the pressure of dating a Mormon man, getting sealed in the Mormon temple, raising Mormon children. You know, I read all the- Speaker 1: You what I think is funny? I say this? Not only as a homophobic to say, well, she must be a lesbian with the assumption that's an insult, but at the end of the day, what it is that you've decentered men and that is ⁓ in a patriarchy, one of the worst things you can do. And so I think it's critical for any native who's decolonizing to understand and decentral the patriarchy. Like, let's just start there. And yes, you may offend a lot of people in it. There are people who have asked me if my husband and I are in like an open relationship or a queer relationship because we don't center the patriarchy and we don't center ⁓ settler colonialism. And we're outside of the concepts of even white settler healthy sexual relationships and have gone into ⁓ you know, what is healthy gender roles in an Indigenous way. And so I bring it up because, I mean, here I am, a straight cis mom of a little lesbian who has absolutely, like she gags at the thought of a man, you know, but she loves her husband, her dad. But that bigger picture is that that idea of just de-centring patriarchy is a part of decolonizing. And that's the road that you've been doing. And for people who cannot comprehend decolonizing, it's easier for them to throw a homophobic insult than it is for them to consider a world that doesn't center unhealthy, toxic, settler, colonial ⁓ masculinity. Speaker 2: That's why, well. You know, what was so surprising for me, and I guess it was a wake up call. I was talking with this one lady, like the podcast that I got a whole bunch of listeners listening to. She was, she was talking about, we were talking about my trip to Las Vegas. And, and I, said to me, oh, well, Marini, sound a lot healthier. You're not as anxious. Cause I said to her, you know, I I had to give up two friends. See, again, because ⁓ even a couple of years ago, within my family, I made some sort of comment. People knew me before Nathan Chasing Horse and after Nathan Chasing Horse. It's just like before Christ and after Christ. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Speaker 2: The paradox here. My friend, she's ⁓ from Antigua and I knew her in high school and she called me up and she said, ⁓ Marina, I knew you before Nathan Chasing Horse. She says, so any conflict that you're having with your family, that's Mormon. She says, I knew you before Nathan Chasing Horse and I knew you already had conflict with your family. Speaker 1: as if to try to derail your comment or your work. Speaker 2: So the yes, yes, because the reality and this is the crux of it when I talk about trauma. When 50, oh, what, 49, 50 years ago in 1978, my father passed away. No, it was in the in the fall of 78. I had this premonition. I thought, you know, I something's going to happen. I really have to change my life around. you know, like ⁓ if I'm drinking or even around drugs or promiscuity, I have to stop that. And see, before I went to Las Vegas, I spoke to a Chach to a Shtey and I said, you know, I'm just letting you know, I'm not letting anybody know that I'm going to Las Vegas, let alone letting them know I'm traveling with a white man. And I said, the reason I'm doing that, as I said, is because when I was younger, when I was in my 20s and I you know, felt horny and I wanted to have sex. I said I didn't announce it to every Tom, Dick and Harry in my community, my family. Oh, I'm going to go out tonight and go to a bar and pick up some Yahoo and have sex. I'll be back tomorrow. I said, there was nobody's business. I said, I just go out, find somebody, bang, come home, satisfied. And he looks at me and he says, ⁓ you broke hearts, patriarchy, okay, patriarchy, patriarchal attitude. I said to him, in the seventies, I said it was frowned upon for women to be promiscuous. I said, but in studies in healthy human development, it's... It's a way of healing for both men and women to be promiscuous. I said it's just, it's biological. It's historical. Like we come from cave men, cave women. It's, we let out our, what do call it? When you get a little itch or you get a little ⁓ antsy or you just want to debrief. Speaker 1: HAHAHAHA Speaker 2: So I said to him, that's why I'm letting you know. I said, I just think that when I go there to witness the sentencing, I don't need people in my community to know. Because I wanted him to know ahead of time. I'm not letting people know. And I didn't. I didn't let anybody know until I was actually there and I put it on Facebook and bang, I got phone calls and just one phone call. But I was still in touch with my friend in Montreal. because I had a little anxiety because I'm traveling with a white man. And I said to her, I don't know. I said, I think I might've offended him. Again, because I sort of barked at him about white men and indigenous women, like as if he didn't know the history because he's European. And I'm going, no. I said, violence towards indigenous women is historical. You know, even in my podcast, I talk about the millions of Indigenous children that were killed in the first 100 years of colonization. And then I refer to how ⁓ white settlers hunted down Dakota women, gutted them and took their babies out of them to get their scalps. There was a town in South Dakota created for that. And just the violence, even taking away our freedom to marry whoever the hell we wanted to marry. because they were so scared of our matriarchal lineage. know, like all, know, anything to do with matriarchy and decolonization, white fragility is like scared shitless because it has to do with their own sexuality, their loss of their own patriarchy. I was traveling with one of the Uber drivers and he was a man of color and we were talking about Nathan Chasinghorse and he says, He you know, in my culture, like where he came from, he says, there's a law. He says, you know, a man does that, you kill them. He says, because you know that they're going to repeat what they did because he got away with it the first time. He says, we just do that. And I said, I'm pretty sure, you know, back in the day when matriarchal society reigned free, I said, I'm pretty sure Indigenous communities did that too. I there are stories of of the last Wendigo hunter, there's stories of, people who took care and hunted these people who had transformed, like they call skin walkers too. I said, all this has to do with ⁓ people who are unhealthy, unhealthy human sexuality, the mythology and the storytelling of like the boogeyman. I said, those things are part of the culture. I said, but for people to think that it's not in a Bible, like it's not in a scripture, it's not, or in some sort of holy piece of work that you've created some sort of fallacy. I said, it all has to do with just, you know, the energy we carry and our senses, how we treat and respect each other. I tend to think that a lot of women Like just like the women in Korea, I know like most of the women that I've talked to who have been divorced or who are widowed will never be sexually active again. And these are, and because I see it in indigenous communities too. You know, as much as I wish there was a healthy sexuality right until, you know, the day we leave this world, that's unrealistic expectation because Healthy human sexuality is a very ⁓ hard, what's the word, it's a very natural process that we've castrated ourselves from. You know, that's like when with my grandfather, he was quite a sexually active grandfather. And I always, you my mom and my aunties would talk about him. I'm but I was always, you know, just impressed that that he, you know, he was he was a sexually active man. You know, no, no, no, no guilt or anything or shame about it. He was, you know, I always thought like, no, he was quite open, like because he was raised that way. You know, especially if you understand Wink does, Two-Spirited, like it was open. I'm just really grateful that I had a grandfather like that on the Sioux side. My dad's stepfather, my grandfather, he was, you he was, you know, I really miss my grandparents. But you know, the reality of it is the things they had to do just to make peace, you know, make peace with white people. for me, like I said, the lateral violence, when I came home and like the two women who I've, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm this old woman who's preparing herself for death. You know, part of the dying process too is like isolating yourself and giving away stuff and all that. No, that's not why I'm telling this story. I just ⁓ thought like, no, I'm a good person. I don't need somebody to project that I'm a bad person. know, like, because religiosity does that already by itself. And these women don't even know they're projecting that shit onto me. I had to maintain boundaries by not disclosing I was traveling with a white man to Las Vegas. And because of that, see, could have, we could have had discussions about that, but I took that totally out of the equation. The only discussion they could have when it came around men, a patriarchy, was Nathan Chasinghorse. They totally just ate it up that I was down there because I was obsessed with him. Like even 20 fucking years ago. And I'm going, no, you don't get it. I'm, was a victim of violence. I, have empathy for victims of violence. I've seen it within my mom. I've seen it within my sisters, my cousins, children, teenagers. I've seen it. Like I said, even working for the state hospital. those teenage girls didn't get there because they were there because they were victims of violence. They became high risk teenage girls because of victim of violence. It it sickens me no matter how much I try to get across what lateral violence, like what it does or just violence towards children does, like that in human development. And that somehow, Somewhere we we we were still projecting it into into our the very fabric of who we are even as indigenous elder women Yeah, and and elder men Yeah, you know, I think I think I think if I had hadn't taken this course Course of action where I wanted to keep what trust to stay out of the narrative And I learned like it's not because he isn't it like what Joshua stay in Dakota means good man Out of respect, I'm not saying his name. I'm just saying that if I had included him in the narrative, it would have been top heavy focused on him. Who is he? What is he? ⁓ it's his job. ⁓ he did this. He did that. No, there was no narrative around that. It was just the fact that they thought I was obsessed with Nathan Chasing Horse. And or even like one of them, like, you know, her. You know, you know the one lady, she, just the fact that I didn't disclose and she found out I was traveling with a white man and she projected all this stuff on me without even like just fishing around. And yet what kind of friendship or what kind of acquaintance is that when she doesn't even have the ⁓ confidence or the like my friend in Montreal, you know, I call her, know, anything. when comes to just how like if I meet somebody and I think, he was an attractive man or stuff like that. Like I am so naive when it comes to men. Okay. Like I I want, I want my audience to understand this. When we went to the airport, okay. With what? I saw how women flocked around him. Yeah. Okay. Totally foreign to me. Okay. You know, like in TikTok, you see, you see these models or these masculine men walking in front of women and all the women look. Yeah, like that. I totally oblivious. was totally oblivious. OK, because when we go into restaurants again, everybody because I'm indigenous and he's white again, all the eyes gravitate to him. Yeah, you know, and I thought this guy. He's used to being around women who fawn around him. like you know like I like I like and I just want your opinion what do you think like I think sometimes he like I try to explain to him I'm an indigenous matriarch I was born and raised in it I'm not I'm not a woman who's raised in patriarchy your abracadabra your Masculine energy isn't going to work on me. Speaker 1: Just. Yeah, I think. ⁓ How do I say this? Settler colonialism is a concept of, is just coming, killing all the people, taking all the resources. Settler colonialism is killing all the people, taking all the resources, but knowing you're gonna stay. And so I think that that is, that mentality is violence. And I think that the society that brings that settler colonial mentality is violence. So I think someone like yourself, who grew up in a very different worldview of life and just seeing these invaders basically come into the lens and create these horrible, horrible policies. In settler colonialism, you're used to centering the men, centering the patriarchy. The way you grew up, it is a totally different worldview of centering and respecting children and women, and then elders. ⁓ That's how it works. But settler colonialism dictates that ⁓ male gaze, have to, you know, ⁓ look, look, ⁓ you have to have this like Western colonial beauty standard to make men happy. And that's your whole purpose in life in what Western settler colonialism is to make men happy. So yeah, he might be very used to that attention. It doesn't make it right. It just means that that's a worldview that we'll never subscribe to. Speaker 2: Like I think to the mythology or the romanticism of the wild wild west And I'm trying to say that wild wild west was murdering killing torturing hunting you know like like people who they thought weren't human and and and for me I'm going you know, like he was taking pictures of me and and I Like if he understands, I know he says, well, Marina, you've done all this. I'm sacrificing my image. Like I've told people I have very few pictures of myself as a child, a teenager, as a young woman, only because of the tourism at the Calgary Stampede and the gawking and just the romanticism of me being a little savage. know, I just, the fact that I allowed him to take pictures, It was my way of thanking him for sticking his neck out and advocating for the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse. And the fact that I introduced him to some of the women and he saw the people who came and he's done the research. I try to explain to people, this man, Wachash Tewashtey, called so many people in the United States and Canada. He spoke to so many people because of the research he had to do. And the fact that who he talked to and how he spoke to them meant something for me to validate that you're a good ally, you're a good cohort, despite the fact that you have a tendency to want this admiration from women, which to me is like... You know, like really, you heard my nephew talk to me, right? Yeah. My nephew, like, if he was ⁓ a patriarchal, he wouldn't be talking to me like that. Speaker 1: ⁓ No, he would be very condescending, which I'm quite used to when it comes to ⁓ settler colonial mentality. That's how I can always tell where people are on their decolonizing journey based off of how they speak to me. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of times, like even with what Chastra was today, he'd ⁓ comment and he'd realize, like he said something and he'd backtrack and he'd say it another way. And, know, you know, I like I did say to him, I know it's uncomfortable for you. You know, I told him, like, you're you're you're sort of like on my coattail and how I introduce myself to the survivors and their spouses and even how I interact with them. like what I'm able to say in front of them without, like just like the topics. I'm pretty sure that if I were a white woman talking the same thing in front of like a white, like his patriarchy, ⁓ I wouldn't have been allowed to talk that way. But he heard it. He heard it. And if he didn't quite understand it, that's fine. Because like I said, ⁓ when I came home and I realized, okay. Yes, I pretended that I was promiscuous, like back in my childhood. Came back and you know, the people, when I told them, ⁓ yeah, I went out and had fun, like, and how they treated me. Like I said, I stopped being friends with these two women. They still don't know that I was traveling with a white man. That's none of their business and it never will be, unless they're listening to my podcast. But the reality of it is after the second time when I went down, I had no intentions, I didn't think he was going to come back and meet me there. ⁓ And, you know, for the reason he had to have closure as well, because he put so much energy into trying to find the truth out about Nathan Chasing Horse. Like, he knows so many communities that this man infested. He was an infestation. of a patriarchy coming across as being a medicine man. I'm going over you little shit. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 2: Fucking patriarchy. You grew up on a poor reservation in the United States with your parents who were drug dealers, who were poor, who weren't educated, and you're trying to bullshit your way through this cobweb of deceit? You passing yourself off as matriarchal that you know the Sioux culture? Hell, if you know the Sioux culture, you would know what you did. In White Buffalo Calf Woman, they talk about a woman descending from heaven in a cloud. And when she's walking, she's a calf. As she walks towards you, she starts aging. Now, when she first arrives, there are two Dakota men who greet her. And she's beautiful. And they're horny as hell. The one just wants to possess her. And the other one shows her respect. like the way my nephew showed me respect. And the one who was horny as hell is like Nathan Chasing Horse. Okay, so the long, story of it is like the one who disrespected her, he walked into the cloud. They both walked into the cloud with the woman. When the cloud lifted, there were just one pile of bones. And there was, the other one was the young man. Speaker 1: Sure. Speaker 2: The one that was a cloud of bones, there was a pile of bones, was the one who disrespected her. And the one who survived was the one who respected her. And she's the one who she taught the seven teachings of the Dakota Sioux, like the Wui P, the Sundance, the sweat lodge, making relatives, all the seven teachings. But that's the moral of matriarchy, that respect. And, you know, if people who were in foster care or if they'd been in the Mormon church or whatever, dogma or propaganda or some reason they wanted to become white and delightsome or super, you know, medicine man, like the mythology of the white, like Disneyland, you know, medicine man, know, that again is the opposite of matriarchy and the story. See, that's why people want to romanticize white Buffalo calf woman. I'm going you shits. Like I sometimes I just realize sometimes I just want to grab somebody and shake them, you know, because they're so patronizing. I'm going you don't get it. Especially especially people who don't understand the sacrifices are our ancestors. I said the first 100 years they killed five generations of our children. Don't you think? I said that prophecy of white buffalo calf woman took place over a thousand years before the settlers came into the Americas. Don't you think this prophecy came about what you're thinking about climate change and all this devastation and shit like that, the atomic bomb and all that. I said that that's just the end result. The beginning was when colonizers came into the Americas and killed five generations of our children. white buffalo calf woman predicted that thousands of years before they came. And for people to deconstruct and make their own mythology, trying to hide the genocide, the gender apartheid of indigenous women in the Americas by saying, ⁓ we'll follow Nathan Chasinghorse because look, he can speak the language. ⁓ fuck, he can't even. The Olakota, he doesn't know how to speak Olakota. Even his songs, they're, you know, yes, they're fragments of the language, but the old, the old Sioux, he has no comprehension of it. Like I said, my mother spoke, she was literate in Sioux, she could read and write in Sioux. And my grandfather was, he could read and write in Sioux, the Sioux lawyers from the Dakotas would come and have him translate the old Sioux. That's how sophisticated the Sioux people were and are still. So when I talk about renaissance of our young people, I'm hoping as an elder that I'm trying to educate people. I try to educate people about healthy human sexuality. Even in my own age group, I say, open yourself up. Keep your spidey senses alert and alive. Just because you're not sexually active doesn't mean you shut down. You keep yourself open so you can engage with people like... You know, I engaged with what Chashtra was there. You know, I, like I said, the last, the last time I traveled with a white man was from Utah to Calgary. And that little shit hated me so much. Didn't talk to me, drove 16 straight hours. We went through Idaho. He hit a deer, didn't even stop to see how bad his car, his uncle's car was. Just drove me, drove right to Canada. Just wanted to get rid of me. So. And I never told what Joshua stay that when he wanted to be there, my cousin says, well, Marina, you know, it was his job. I said, no. I said he came on his own dime. Yeah. You know, like, hello. You know, there's always got to be somebody attached to something because who would do this for Marina Crane? They're all like, again, that lateral violence of like, no. And I'm going, you don't get it. You have to have your spidey senses open. And you find somebody attractive, you cannot switch it off and on. Like one month you have your period, the next month you switch it off and you don't. It doesn't work. Human sexuality doesn't work that way. That's why having conversations with you about ⁓ just being like people, non-binary, ⁓ two-spirited, ⁓ homosexual, heterosexual, you know, all this psychological jargon and just the depravity of like, what did we talk about Gary Gilmore and serial killers and children who develop ⁓ self-defeating to the point where they want to hurt themselves and leave this planet. You know, that's the reality of colonialism. That's the reality of life. I do think every culture, like you said, the Koreans, ⁓ like the women saying, I do not want to participate in violence. Like I said, I was talking to this one man and like he says, in my culture, we would have killed him. And he says, you know, people don't realize like there are countries where they're imploding. They don't have a generation to come and fill those professional spots. And so the civilization and their society are imploding. So because they've stopped having children. He says, more power to these young people who choose to have children because without them our society collapses. And yet if we don't educate our, like what is healthy human sexuality and how to respect boundaries and to protect our hearts, minds and spirits because how we think other people may find it offensive. And ⁓ my God, if we trigger them, like what, we have to ⁓ thrash ourselves a hundred times with a whip. Like what they were talking about, you know, that whip where they were hitting prisoners. You know, like the devastation of just how people ⁓ interact with other human beings without any sense of self-respect or self-love. Like when Nathan Chasing Horse stood there... ⁓ Like, no feeling, none, blatant lie, lie, lie, lie. And I, you know, as much as people, you know, 20 years ago, ⁓ like they believed somebody who lied. Knowing them, knowing me my whole life, knowing me my whole life being a Sioux woman. Knowing that my family has taught me to always tell the truth, that the truth for me with the Creator is I'm accountable when I leave this earth, that when people offer me tobacco, it's with the reminder that what I'm doing and what I'm saying is coming from the truth, and that they're approaching me saying they're going to be honest about what's happening in their lives. I tell people, Twenty years ago, when I set up the Wawipi ceremony for Nathan Chasing Horse, not once did I give him tobacco. That's how powerful it is, the commitment we make to Creator, to be honest. And my mother would say, she said, when the Siouxs traveled within the Blackfoot Confederacy, or any place in Canada, from the States, they were fierce people. The Siouxtana had rings in their nose. But the Sioux people... when they addressed who they were, they'd use sign language. said the Sus, the Soutina grunted when they met the Sus. As in the Sus said they were fierce with rings in their nose. They knew that they could kill them, but they told the truth. They said they were Dakota. That's how powerful it is when we're mixing indigenous cultures and meeting other indigenous people. We had to tell the truth. And if we were enemies and they would kill us, it was because we told the truth. That's why when people, you know, poo poo and say, ⁓ tobacco, ⁓ I'm a traditionalist or I'm this and I'm that. No, the legacy for thousands of years of civilization that was handed down just didn't happen 500 years ago. Sure. And that's why for me as an elder. I know I'm a rare breed in the sense that I'm like as an elder and an educated elder. I was raised, you know, with my aunts who were Dakota and all my grandmothers, my mom's aunties, they were all Dakota. In Sioux Tina, that's different. But I know, like I know ⁓ the teachings that were given to me. So even when they said, Marina, how did you know ⁓ who Nathan Chasing Horse was? Well, because I never gave him tobacco. I was still waiting for him to tell the truth. So for me, the closure of having him stand in front of that judge saying it's a miscarriage of justice and he's innocent. Yeah. Like that's what he's carrying with him into the next world. Speaker 1: is not good. Speaker 2: Well, irresponsibility of not respecting those who came before you. Yes. Because those people had to have talked the truth. And for him to not understand is so disrespectful to the ancestors, the grandfathers and grandmothers, and creator. Yeah. That's why it doesn't matter, like even with Wachasta washte, you know, being a European, I, you know, my advocacy for him and trying to say to him, this is who I am and this is who you are, because we're both from different cultures. And the fact is he's patriarchal coming across to meet a matriarch. Because that was taken away. But thanks for listening and I really appreciate your insight. Speaker 1: It's my honor. It's my honor to discuss these things. I think it's a part of our healing journey and our decolonizing. yeah, some of it can be written in a book, but some of us, like it's like being in a sharing circle, talking about these things in a way to heal about it. Speaker 2: Yeah, because it offers insight into so much, like the diversity. That's why I'm saying when Chris Derrickson passed away and the diversity of so many people from so many different walks of life, it's like the gravity of it. wish, well, I don't say I wish, I'm just grateful that I met her. Me too. Speaker 1: Yeah. Glad you did too. Watching the entire Indian country mourn for Chris was, ⁓ it was tough. And I felt really bad for so many of my friends and family in the arts community that obviously were touched by Chris. So my heart is with them and their family as they move on into the spirit world. Speaker 2: Yeah, so thank you for sharing. Like, it's a part of grieving too, the, you know, just honoring her in the sense of, you know, healthy human sexuality and how much courage she had to promote her craft and her talent and just her way of living. I just, ⁓ you know, it's so impactful. I'm just, like I said, I... ⁓ You know, I'm grateful we shared this because I, there's got to be some sort of recognition, like just from you and me, like to, you know, to say thank you and that, you know, we'll meet again type of thing to her. You know, she's, she, she left in a, she left, she walked a very honorable life and the person who's the keeper of her soul doesn't have very much work to do because. know, Creator has seen so much of what she's done when she walked this world. That's how I feel. That's how I see her. Speaker 1: Ma Si Chou to you for those good words, Ma Si Chou to Chris for blazing a path for upcoming musicians who are Indigenous, but also gender diverse. You and I in our lifetimes have seen such a massive shift, just more recently in our lives, even in the 90s. You know, I cry about George Michael. Speaker 2: Yes. in our Speaker 1: the he was treated. ⁓ And that's just, even before that, it's just always been so violent against the Two-Spirit and ⁓ so honored to watch the Two-Spirit just blaze these trailblazers is what they're called. They're just living their life. I think of a Kent Monkman, ⁓ just living that life. We have many many artists that have just shown us a different perspective and helped us decolonize with their words, their art, their books, everything. Amazing people. Speaker 2: Yes, it's, live in such a, like when I talk about my parents and my grandparents and I'm going, ⁓ they didn't have all this. I'm grateful as an elder that I witness it, that I'm witnessing it. It's so profound and I'm so very grateful. But thank you for, again, helping me out with my podcast and also some clarity too, like with what Tashta was saying, know, ⁓ it's bittersweet in the sense that, like how you described ⁓ just the challenges, just, being human being, like, and the lateral violence. Like, when I talk about my life and people, you know, are going, ⁓ you were treated, I'm sorry, you were treated that way. You know, I'm just one voice. I'm one voice that survived. I'm one voice out of thousands who have died too early, especially women and children, like murdered and missing indigenous. girls and women in two-spirit. Yeah, that's the like if I can do whatever I can do in sharing my life and and you know, people want to project stuff into what I say, fine. More power to you. But as I'm saying it and as we bear witness. We're not alone. There's the diversity and the courage of these young people. I'm just so very grateful. Like I said to witness it. ⁓ beautiful. Okay, so I'm going to stop the recording. Hold on. How do I do this? Okay. Again. Speaker 1: Yeah.