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Is Libby tipping pitches? Chaim’s Trade Deadline Strategy, Blaze Jordan continues to HIT · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:10
Speaker 1: Today it's Jim Hayes alongside Lance Lynn Lance.
0:14
Speaker 2: How you doing today, I'm doing great, Jim, Thanks for
0:17
Speaker 2: having me, always a pleasure.
0:21
Speaker 1: Well, the Cardinals played the Diamondbacks as they wrap up
0:24
Speaker 1: before him set. At this point, Cardinals looking to get
0:27
Speaker 1: a split. And last night Libby, who had a really
0:32
Speaker 1: rough outing in Kansas City, I mean he lasted an
0:35
Speaker 1: inning and two thirds, was cruising through three look good.
0:38
Speaker 1: Looked like a bounced back start for Libby, who we
0:42
Speaker 1: all love and we all recognize that he has good stuff.
0:45
Speaker 1: And then in the fourth inning, kaboom, six and six
0:49
Speaker 1: runs he gave up, including back to back homers. Now,
0:52
Speaker 1: to his credit, he stayed in there, gave him five
0:55
Speaker 1: plus innings whatever it was. But even after his last
0:59
Speaker 1: start against the Royals, they were talking about tipping and
1:05
Speaker 1: maybe Libby was pitch tipping and maybe the Royals saw something.
1:09
Speaker 1: So my question is, from what you've seen of Matthew Liberator,
1:13
Speaker 1: have you seen any evidence of tipping outside of results
1:17
Speaker 1: which aren't good.
1:19
Speaker 2: No, I have not done the deep dive to see
1:23
Speaker 2: what we've got going on. I mean to be honest
1:25
Speaker 2: with you, you have to have all the things that
1:28
Speaker 2: they have, whether it's low motion cameras and all these
1:31
Speaker 2: things where it's a glove till, whether it's a filare,
1:33
Speaker 2: whether it's a hand movement from your glove in your hand,
1:37
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So these are real things, and
1:40
Speaker 2: they are also things that can eat at you and
1:43
Speaker 2: can kind of, you know, beat you up a little
1:46
Speaker 2: bit when you're out there pitching because you're concentrating on
1:49
Speaker 2: not tipping them instead of throwing the pitch where you
1:51
Speaker 2: need to and do those things. So I would have
1:54
Speaker 2: to do a deep dive of every angle because I mean,
1:57
Speaker 2: you have guys that are and teams that tip them
2:00
Speaker 2: from their third and first base coach. If they see
2:02
Speaker 2: like there's so many little turns. It's like curveball, you know, fastball.
2:07
Speaker 2: There's so many little things that you can see from
2:10
Speaker 2: multiple different angles that obviously if they if they've mentioned
2:14
Speaker 2: that it's happening, then they they personally saw something and
2:16
Speaker 2: found something. And if they've seen it, then the other
2:19
Speaker 2: teams already have it. There's really no way to say it.
2:22
Speaker 2: So that's something we concentrate on every time. I remember,
2:24
Speaker 2: you know, when I was coming up, and when I
2:26
Speaker 2: was doing everything, every bullpen you would be in there
2:29
Speaker 2: watching every you know, every pre game, you'd be there
2:33
Speaker 2: watching every game. You'd be in there watching. As a
2:35
Speaker 2: starting pitcher, Kyle was one of the best at it
2:37
Speaker 2: when it came to knowing his own teammates but also
2:40
Speaker 2: knowing the other team and locking it in for guys.
2:42
Speaker 2: So that's what you do as a starting pitcher when
2:44
Speaker 2: you're not playing. You try to figure out if your
2:46
Speaker 2: guys are tipping and make sure they don't and then
2:48
Speaker 2: make sure that if the other team has a tip,
2:50
Speaker 2: you find it. Now people have departments that are made
2:53
Speaker 2: for that. Yeah, it's a different world your old school
2:57
Speaker 2: back in your day, right, you just had eyes and pictures.
3:01
Speaker 2: Back in our day, we'll get our job as starting
3:03
Speaker 2: pitchers and help help the team. But nowadays those guys
3:06
Speaker 2: don't do that.
3:07
Speaker 1: But it could be such a little tip that even
3:09
Speaker 1: the eye couldn't see. Now what that you mentioned video
3:12
Speaker 1: at different angles. There's a lot to think about there.
3:15
Speaker 1: It's different.
3:17
Speaker 2: There's so much there, really is. And then every team
3:20
Speaker 2: and every base runner is looking for something and they
3:23
Speaker 2: will make sure they relay it if they can, and
3:26
Speaker 2: to be honest with you as part of the game.
3:28
Speaker 2: For me, if if coaches and dugouts stay out of it,
3:32
Speaker 2: like and are you not yelling stuff out of the
3:34
Speaker 2: dugout or coaches aren't doingything, I'm cool with. As long
3:36
Speaker 2: as players are getting it from their eyes or from
3:39
Speaker 2: the base pass that they're on, I'm totally I think
3:41
Speaker 2: it's totally part of the game and it's your job
3:43
Speaker 2: as a pitcher not to do it. I remember a
3:45
Speaker 2: point in my career there's times when I tipped, and
3:48
Speaker 2: it's the worst feeling in the world when you go
3:50
Speaker 2: back and you're out there trying to trying to fight
3:52
Speaker 2: your way through a game and you know that you're
3:54
Speaker 2: doing something and you can't fix it at that time
3:57
Speaker 2: because it's you're in the middle of a game. It's frustrating,
4:00
Speaker 2: but it also is something that comes to the game
4:03
Speaker 2: and you gotta be able to adjust on the fly.
4:04
Speaker 2: And I remember moving my hands halfway through my career,
4:08
Speaker 2: or I say halfway through my career. I just slowly
4:10
Speaker 2: kept moving them so I would never tip, and I
4:12
Speaker 2: got myself in a good spot later in my career
4:14
Speaker 2: and I helped out a lot.
4:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as memory serves you were a guy who
4:19
Speaker 1: threw fastballs, only I would say that a guy who
4:22
Speaker 1: has a wider range of pitches might be more susceptible
4:27
Speaker 1: to tipping. Am I Am I wrong about that? Yeah?
4:30
Speaker 2: I mean you think, And if it depends on how
4:32
Speaker 2: you set the ball up in your gloves. Some guys
4:33
Speaker 2: are preset heater or something like that. So if they
4:35
Speaker 2: see any movement at all and they know it's not
4:37
Speaker 2: a fastball, they don't have to worry about anything else.
4:39
Speaker 2: When you eliminate, like if you can eliminate one pitch
4:43
Speaker 2: or which might eliminate the side of a plate for
4:45
Speaker 2: the hitter. So like for me, if they eliminate let's
4:49
Speaker 2: say my cutter, they know the cutter goes into lefties
4:52
Speaker 2: and goes away from right. So if they can eliminate
4:54
Speaker 2: that pitch and know it's coming, they're eliminating the side
4:56
Speaker 2: of the plate essentially. You know, I would back toward
4:58
Speaker 2: the cutter to the lefties in front hip at the
5:00
Speaker 2: Wrighty's some, but it's not something I lived and died by.
5:03
Speaker 2: So if you eliminate a pitch one side of the plate,
5:06
Speaker 2: now it's like, oh, I'm a four pitch pitcher. But
5:08
Speaker 2: it's like, no, I eliminated that whole side of plate.
5:10
Speaker 2: You're a one or two pitch pitcher and I don't
5:11
Speaker 2: have to worry about the ball over there at all
5:13
Speaker 2: until I get two strikes. That really makes it tough
5:15
Speaker 2: to get people.
5:16
Speaker 1: Out an old school. Also, I mean, you guys would
5:20
Speaker 1: watch each other's bullpens, guys in the starting rotation, but
5:24
Speaker 1: you guys really were the eyes and ears of the manager,
5:27
Speaker 1: the coaching staff because pictures for some reason, maybe because
5:30
Speaker 1: your pitchers can always pick up on a tell or
5:34
Speaker 1: when someone's tipping. Why is that?
5:37
Speaker 2: It's just well, you know your guy, right, so you
5:40
Speaker 2: see what they've done all year, and you're also you're
5:42
Speaker 2: looking at you're intently looking to make sure your guy
5:45
Speaker 2: doesn't get beat up or putting himself in a bad situation,
5:48
Speaker 2: and then you know that they're going to do that
5:50
Speaker 2: for you. So that's the brotherhood of a starting rotation,
5:53
Speaker 2: and that's how you win games and you do well.
5:55
Speaker 2: So that's part of the gig, and that's what you
5:58
Speaker 2: want to do. You want to make sure your teammates
5:59
Speaker 2: and you're elf are ready to go. And only thing
6:01
Speaker 2: that you worry about out there is getting people out.
6:04
Speaker 2: If you're worrying about more things than just getting Pippy
6:06
Speaker 2: out making the pitch, the game gets fast and you
6:09
Speaker 2: get yourself in trouble. And I think you're seeing that
6:11
Speaker 2: a little bit with Libby this year. Is the game
6:13
Speaker 2: is getting fast, and that's when you have bigginnings and
6:16
Speaker 2: where you don't get through them, and that means there's
6:19
Speaker 2: more things going on, whether it's struggling with pitch selections,
6:22
Speaker 2: struggling with thinking you're tipping, and struggling with all kinds
6:26
Speaker 2: of different things can be going through your head, but
6:28
Speaker 2: you try to minimize those by making sure you're ready
6:30
Speaker 2: to go every day by hey, I don't tip, I'm prepared.
6:34
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm over Maybe he's over preparing too. And that's
6:36
Speaker 2: something where it's like there's too many thought processes going
6:39
Speaker 2: on instead of hey, let's simplify it. Make sure it's
6:41
Speaker 2: one thing at a time and let's go get out
6:43
Speaker 2: and figure out how to get ourselves a quality start.
6:46
Speaker 1: So one thing about pictures, and that goes from like
6:49
Speaker 1: kidding youth baseball, who says I want to pitch all
6:52
Speaker 1: eyes are on you at all times, Like you could
6:54
Speaker 1: be a short stop and make a bad error, and
6:57
Speaker 1: then the play you know, moves on and then you know,
7:00
Speaker 1: the next batter steps in and no one's looking at
7:02
Speaker 1: the shortstop for a picture where everyone's watching that guy
7:07
Speaker 1: to get beat up early in a game, but realize,
7:10
Speaker 1: I gotta give him at least five. I'm to try
7:12
Speaker 1: to go six. But you're getting beaten up. What's that
7:15
Speaker 1: feeling like? I would imagine you feel like you're on
7:18
Speaker 1: an island. What's that like you are?
7:21
Speaker 2: But then you have to realize that you have to
7:23
Speaker 2: wear one for the team and not just give up,
7:25
Speaker 2: and you got to figure out how to get as
7:27
Speaker 2: deep as you can so you don't have another guy
7:29
Speaker 2: wear one out of the bullpen for you, and it
7:31
Speaker 2: shows the team what you got. You can get beat
7:33
Speaker 2: up early, but you stick around and you're in there
7:35
Speaker 2: through the fifth through the sixth inning. Next thing you know,
7:38
Speaker 2: I've won mini games giving up three or four runs
7:40
Speaker 2: early in the game. The next thing I know, I
7:42
Speaker 2: look up, I'm in through the sixth inning and only
7:44
Speaker 2: gave up three or four runs. Because you sometimes you
7:47
Speaker 2: just got to man up and get through the game,
7:49
Speaker 2: and then your team takes care of you, and then
7:51
Speaker 2: that next start they're like, hey, well he's going to
7:54
Speaker 2: stay in there, he's gonna fire, He's not gonna sit
7:55
Speaker 2: here and just roll over and take it. So that's
7:58
Speaker 2: part of being a competitor and knowing that, hey, you're
8:00
Speaker 2: not always going to have your best game, but it
8:03
Speaker 2: really tells who you are when you have your ship
8:05
Speaker 2: game and you're still out there to you know, maybe
8:07
Speaker 2: salvage a win and or you salvage the bullpen. You
8:10
Speaker 2: salvage a series for the bullpen because you wore it
8:12
Speaker 2: like a.
8:13
Speaker 1: Man that day. That's a great point. So the d
8:17
Speaker 1: Backs are a team. They're not loaded with thumpers, right,
8:21
Speaker 1: They're not a great offensive team, but they don't strike
8:24
Speaker 1: out a lot. They make contact, now, sometimes not a
8:26
Speaker 1: great contact. How much pressure does that put on a pitcher? Know,
8:31
Speaker 1: when you're facing a team that all right, I'm not
8:33
Speaker 1: gonna I'm not gonna get out of an ending with
8:35
Speaker 1: a strikeout or two here, I'm gonna have to pitch.
8:38
Speaker 1: What pressure does that put out a pitcher?
8:41
Speaker 2: I think you kind of know going into it, like,
8:43
Speaker 2: don't chase the strikeout, right, because then that puts you
8:45
Speaker 2: in bad counts and we'll get you in bad counts. Know,
8:48
Speaker 2: who what hitters are going to do, what what they're
8:50
Speaker 2: going to try to do, and let them get themselves
8:52
Speaker 2: out on weak contact early on and be okay with it.
8:56
Speaker 2: So I think it puts pressure on you if you
8:59
Speaker 2: are or just live and die by the strikeout. But
9:03
Speaker 2: for guys like Libby and things like that, you can
9:05
Speaker 2: induce soft contact and you have one of the best
9:07
Speaker 2: defenses in the game, So use him and figure out, Hey,
9:11
Speaker 2: what's my soft contact pitch. What's my pitch that I
9:14
Speaker 2: know I can get ahead in the strike somewhere if
9:16
Speaker 2: they put it in play, I'm not gonna get damage
9:18
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So I'll tell you what, though,
9:20
Speaker 2: it puts a lot of pressure on you if your
9:22
Speaker 2: defense is shit behind you. But the Cardinals don't have
9:24
Speaker 2: to worry about that because they've got some of the
9:25
Speaker 2: best young defenders in the game and they can just
9:27
Speaker 2: go attack hitters. I mean, that's why you see some
9:29
Speaker 2: of these guys have the success they're having so far,
9:31
Speaker 2: because they're contact pitchers.
9:34
Speaker 1: When we're talking about Libby and I know you're fond
9:37
Speaker 1: of Libby, I'm fond of Libby, and we both recognize
9:40
Speaker 1: he has stuff. We've seen it. But you're talking about
9:45
Speaker 1: sort of a coaching step that generally is looking for
9:49
Speaker 1: more swing and miss. Okay, and Lebby has strikeout stuff.
9:52
Speaker 1: Do you think if you're trying to sort of push
9:55
Speaker 1: him in that direction that can kind of get him
9:59
Speaker 1: off kilter a little bit and we see results like
10:01
Speaker 1: this and maybe trying too hard for the strikeout or
10:05
Speaker 1: the chase, swinging this, et cetera.
10:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that could that could kill a guy
10:10
Speaker 2: really if you think about it now, they're trying to
10:12
Speaker 2: over overcook a pitch or over over over try. Really,
10:17
Speaker 2: sometimes when you throw a pitch too hard trying to
10:19
Speaker 2: get chase or trying to make it nasty, you spin
10:22
Speaker 2: through it or just in or it's a bad location.
10:25
Speaker 2: So maybe it's just go back to be like, hey,
10:27
Speaker 2: where can we throw the ball quality and the strikes
10:29
Speaker 2: one to get ahead, and then where are areas where
10:32
Speaker 2: we can expand with two strikes? I learned a long
10:35
Speaker 2: time ago you can't strike anybody out unless you get
10:37
Speaker 2: two strikes. But if you're trying to strike him out
10:39
Speaker 2: right out of the gate, most likely you're going to
10:40
Speaker 2: be three to two. So you pitch one and two
10:43
Speaker 2: to get soft contact pitch three, figure out if you
10:46
Speaker 2: can get a strikeout, pitch four soft contact. That's the
10:49
Speaker 2: way I tried to pitch as my career went on.
10:52
Speaker 2: Chase strikeouts at times early in my career, and I'd
10:55
Speaker 2: always be at three two. I feel like I was
10:56
Speaker 2: a king of three to two early in my career
10:58
Speaker 2: trying to get strikeouts. And then I stopped worrying about strikeouts.
11:01
Speaker 2: I started to get more strikeouts because I was a
11:03
Speaker 2: heading counts and I was attacking hitters the way I
11:06
Speaker 2: knew how in the LOAI felt comfortable and the strikeouts
11:09
Speaker 2: just kind of came naturally. So maybe that's something they
11:12
Speaker 2: go back to. It's hey, where's our quality strike one?
11:14
Speaker 2: Where's our quality strike two? If we have a chase,
11:17
Speaker 2: where's our chase off of our strike two pitch? How
11:19
Speaker 2: we get a tunnel that and then once we get
11:21
Speaker 2: in a strikeout count, go for it.
11:23
Speaker 1: Boom.
11:24
Speaker 2: If it doesn't work, let's go back to get the
11:26
Speaker 2: guy out as fast as possible. Let's get out of here,
11:28
Speaker 2: and four or five pitches are less. And then next
11:30
Speaker 2: thing you know, you look up here in a deep
11:32
Speaker 2: in a game, you've got seven strikeouts through six innings
11:35
Speaker 2: and no walks and a couple hits and you're in
11:37
Speaker 2: a good spot.
11:40
Speaker 1: That's wisdom. That's straight up wisdom right there. You know what, Lance,
11:43
Speaker 1: There are a lot of great sporting events going on
11:46
Speaker 1: as we get into the summer months. For me, never
11:51
Speaker 1: been to a World Cup match. I'd like to see one.
11:53
Speaker 1: Is there anything you would like to see? I don't
11:55
Speaker 1: know if you'd like to see a World Cup game?
11:57
Speaker 1: I would.
11:59
Speaker 2: Football is it's not my strong suit. But I will
12:02
Speaker 2: say this, my daughters are starting to take a liking
12:05
Speaker 2: to it. So we've been we've been kind of locked in,
12:07
Speaker 2: so I think they would enjoy that. But right now,
12:09
Speaker 2: it's WNBA. Go see Caitlin Clark playing because she's getting
12:12
Speaker 2: beat up, but she's still putting on a show.
12:15
Speaker 1: She is getting beat up, like they punched your in
12:17
Speaker 1: the throat the other night, right right.
12:19
Speaker 2: If you're in the NBA, man, you're you're getting taken
12:21
Speaker 2: care of. The WNBA left their starts getting beat up.
12:25
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12:31
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12:38
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12:41
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12:44
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13:04
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13:10
Speaker 1: maybe some people want to go see the Cardinals, and
13:12
Speaker 1: if they do, they would see Blaze Jordan really handful
13:15
Speaker 1: of games into his major league career. Watch him last
13:18
Speaker 1: night and gets two hits, three RBIs and a tough
13:22
Speaker 1: night for Cardinal fans. He goes the other way. He
13:26
Speaker 1: plays really good defense, which we heard maybe wouldn't be
13:29
Speaker 1: the case at third base and plays first base. Did
13:33
Speaker 1: a good job over there. But the way he hits lance,
13:36
Speaker 1: the fact that he looks like he's not, you know,
13:40
Speaker 1: a guy who just made his major league debut. What
13:42
Speaker 1: are you seeing from Blaze Jordan? I see a ballplayer.
13:46
Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say. And you know,
13:48
Speaker 2: sometimes ballplayers don't look the sexiest in a uniform or
13:53
Speaker 2: the way that they go about doing their things, but
13:56
Speaker 2: they are winning players, and they do the things they
13:59
Speaker 2: need to do. They hit, they play defense. Uh, they're
14:02
Speaker 2: good teammates. They seem to always be doing the right
14:07
Speaker 2: thing and it's not about them. So that's what I
14:09
Speaker 2: see him, and I like that. I think that as
14:13
Speaker 2: a group, as a as a whole, the Cardinals are
14:16
Speaker 2: turning into a group of ball players with the ability
14:20
Speaker 2: to have some superstar in them. You know, we'll see
14:23
Speaker 2: where everyone takes their game to We're certain to see
14:26
Speaker 2: a lot of good things, but their ballplayers first, and
14:28
Speaker 2: I think that builds a good team.
14:30
Speaker 1: So I like his fit.
14:32
Speaker 2: I like what he brings. I like where he's at
14:34
Speaker 2: with what they've got with Burley and especially at the
14:36
Speaker 2: corner positions. So they're they're they're getting ballplayers that that
14:41
Speaker 2: play the game the right way, which in tales winning baseball.
14:46
Speaker 1: So the Cardinals just made an announcement that Bill Do What.
14:51
Speaker 1: The third is going to be elevated, Bill Do What.
14:53
Speaker 1: Junior is still involved in the big decisions and also
14:57
Speaker 1: a Noook is taken over as the head of business operations,
15:02
Speaker 1: but there was some discussion about what the Cardinals might
15:06
Speaker 1: do around the trade deadline. Him was on the panel
15:09
Speaker 1: as well yesterday and kind of reiterated and build Awood Junior,
15:13
Speaker 1: by the way, kind of laid it out there. They were,
15:15
Speaker 1: like Bill basically said, we're not going to jeopardize our
15:19
Speaker 1: long term plan for a short term fix. Now we
15:22
Speaker 1: stipulate whether or not the Cardinals might be creeping back
15:28
Speaker 1: toward the five hundred mark or whether they've run left.
15:30
Speaker 1: We know this lineup is solid. I think this lineup
15:33
Speaker 1: can really compete if they got into the postseason. So
15:36
Speaker 1: my question for you is, should him maybe revisit that philosophy?
15:42
Speaker 1: He told me we could add, but we'd have to
15:44
Speaker 1: be creative about it. They don't want to trade away
15:47
Speaker 1: pieces that they think are their future. Should he revisit that?
15:51
Speaker 1: Based on what we've seen from this lineup and an
15:54
Speaker 1: everyday lineup that plays really good defense, that battles every
15:58
Speaker 1: bat always seems to punch, and as you mentioned, a
16:02
Speaker 1: lot of young players that maybe we're questioned marks are
16:05
Speaker 1: starting to come into their own. Should he revisit that
16:10
Speaker 1: depends on how you revisit it.
16:12
Speaker 2: If you're talking rentals, if you're going to give away
16:14
Speaker 2: any of the future for a rental.
16:17
Speaker 1: Hell no, you don't do it.
16:19
Speaker 2: I think that's what they're alluding to, is we are
16:21
Speaker 2: not going to give away anything in our future that
16:24
Speaker 2: is young and that we see as valuable for rental player. Now,
16:28
Speaker 2: I think the idea of being creative is a way
16:31
Speaker 2: of saying, if we can get rid of some depth
16:34
Speaker 2: that we maybe have a lot of and stuff like
16:37
Speaker 2: that to get a player that we have multiple years
16:41
Speaker 2: of control of that fits our window. And I think
16:44
Speaker 2: they were trying to see what their window was too, right,
16:46
Speaker 2: is it the start of this year. I don't think
16:48
Speaker 2: they thought it was, but I think that they were
16:51
Speaker 2: hoping next year was the window to start. And I
16:53
Speaker 2: think they've shown that, Hey, maybe we're here before that,
16:57
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean we get rid of anything with
16:59
Speaker 2: that for rentals, because our window is still technically starting
17:03
Speaker 2: next year. But how can we add to this year
17:07
Speaker 2: and still not get rid of anything and we create
17:10
Speaker 2: a we add to our team with people that are
17:15
Speaker 2: going to be here next year. Also that fits what
17:17
Speaker 2: we got, So it's all about next year. So if
17:20
Speaker 2: you're going to add for this year, they better be
17:22
Speaker 2: around next year and maybe the year after that. So
17:24
Speaker 2: I think that's what they're saying creative. So and then
17:27
Speaker 2: there's ways to do that. And if you're you know,
17:29
Speaker 2: like you said, if you're creeping towards five hundred, that's
17:31
Speaker 2: when you run the risk of anybody that is not
17:34
Speaker 2: under contract next year. You see where they're at in
17:37
Speaker 2: an extension situation, and then if they're not looking anywhere
17:41
Speaker 2: close to what you want or what you have an extension,
17:44
Speaker 2: you get the best value you can, whether it's okay,
17:46
Speaker 2: i can get two or three prospects now, or I'm
17:49
Speaker 2: going to give them the qualifying offer and I'm cool
17:51
Speaker 2: with getting that in return compared to what I get
17:54
Speaker 2: in a trade package. So I think those are the
17:55
Speaker 2: things that they're weighing here in the future is what's
17:59
Speaker 2: next year. In the following you're going to look like,
18:02
Speaker 2: what are things that we can get to add to
18:03
Speaker 2: this team? And then what are the things we have
18:05
Speaker 2: on this team that won't be here next year and
18:07
Speaker 2: or won't take an extension that we offer, And then
18:09
Speaker 2: let's see the best things that we can get for that.
18:12
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19:12
Speaker 1: See you bring up a great point. When there's depth
19:15
Speaker 1: among prospects, prospect death, they have it a catcher. I
19:19
Speaker 1: don't think you ever have enough depth with pictures that
19:22
Speaker 1: are prospects, right because you don't know who's going to
19:24
Speaker 1: pan out. But you can utilize that and to me
19:28
Speaker 1: the number one need right now, because I don't think
19:30
Speaker 1: they're going to go out and get a school bull
19:31
Speaker 1: or you know, a front line you know, costly jam
19:36
Speaker 1: I just told you no rentals to stop that. But
19:38
Speaker 1: you want to own, you don't want to rent baby, right, Okay,
19:41
Speaker 1: but there aren't bullpen pieces right and let's face it,
19:45
Speaker 1: bullpen pieces can be hit or miss also. But I
19:48
Speaker 1: think that's their number one need. So if the Cardinals
19:51
Speaker 1: do add, where do you want to see that that add?
19:55
Speaker 2: You need a in my opinion, you need a starter
19:58
Speaker 2: that you can lock in as a two or three
20:02
Speaker 2: next year. So that would automatically mean there you're two
20:06
Speaker 2: or three this year. And I also think that if
20:08
Speaker 2: you're going to if you're going to add at the
20:10
Speaker 2: deadline for relievers, it's figure out how to get a
20:14
Speaker 2: reliever with multiple years of control and or maybe teams
20:19
Speaker 2: that are doing under par this year, big markets that
20:22
Speaker 2: want to get under the ceut of the luxury tax
20:24
Speaker 2: and they have multiple years on their deal, then you
20:27
Speaker 2: have cost certainty of a back end reliever. So if
20:31
Speaker 2: you have a guy, let's say that has two years
20:33
Speaker 2: left on his deal and that's on a losing team
20:36
Speaker 2: and they're trying to get under the salary cap and
20:37
Speaker 2: he's a big time back in eighth ninth inning guy.
20:40
Speaker 2: See what that can get you and go from there,
20:43
Speaker 2: and then you're going to have to add money anyways,
20:46
Speaker 2: but you can add them now and you can control them,
20:48
Speaker 2: and you don't have to bid against somebody in the
20:50
Speaker 2: free agent market. So I think that's kind of what
20:52
Speaker 2: i'm's alluding to is there's a lot of teams that
20:55
Speaker 2: are underperforming this year with guys on let's say decent
20:59
Speaker 2: deal that you can know that they're going to be
21:02
Speaker 2: there next year, and then you can kind of build
21:03
Speaker 2: your roster around that and then go into free agency
21:08
Speaker 2: and add where you need to and see what deals
21:10
Speaker 2: fit where you're at and also might fall in your lap.
21:13
Speaker 2: This free agency goes on because usually relievers and a
21:16
Speaker 2: one year deal back into freedomcy can follow in your
21:18
Speaker 2: lap if you do it.
21:19
Speaker 1: The right way.
21:19
Speaker 2: So I would say that's where I go in free
21:21
Speaker 2: agency right now is multiple years of control and cost
21:25
Speaker 2: certainty on what you're going to give up in the
21:28
Speaker 2: prospect realm, whether it's a double A or triple A
21:31
Speaker 2: guy that you have depth.
21:34
Speaker 1: Fair enough last thing. So a lot of things we
21:37
Speaker 1: found out about this Cardinal team. We like the lineup,
21:39
Speaker 1: we like the defense, bullpen has issues, there's some couple
21:43
Speaker 1: of guys in the starting rotation. We start to wonder
21:47
Speaker 1: where they are right now. And the Cardinals will play
21:50
Speaker 1: a lot of games over the next stretch, and a
21:53
Speaker 1: lot of those games against really good teams. So, Lancelin,
21:57
Speaker 1: how do you see this stretch going for the Cardinal?
22:00
Speaker 1: Can they maintain where they are right now? Which is
22:03
Speaker 1: a team that's surprising an awful lot of people.
22:07
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think here's where we're at going
22:09
Speaker 2: forward is if they are a five hundred team, they
22:13
Speaker 2: had a really good year, and that's where where we
22:16
Speaker 2: wt six games over five hundred right now, give or tay.
22:19
Speaker 2: I haven't looked at the last standings coming into today,
22:22
Speaker 2: but I feel like I'm in the ballpark there. If
22:24
Speaker 2: they are a plus five, Yeah, if they're a plus
22:27
Speaker 2: five team on this season, they had a great year.
22:30
Speaker 2: There really is no long way to say it. But
22:32
Speaker 2: if you get to the trade deadline and you're closer
22:34
Speaker 2: to five hundred than you are ten games over, you're
22:36
Speaker 2: a seller with what they have. That's the way that
22:39
Speaker 2: they the fans need to realize it. But you can
22:42
Speaker 2: still sell the what there's four guys that are on
22:45
Speaker 2: expiring contracts, you can sell those four guys that aren't
22:48
Speaker 2: expiring contracts, get a boatload of prospects back because they're
22:52
Speaker 2: gonna those guys have value and still be a wild
22:57
Speaker 2: card team. That's what people need to realize. You can
22:59
Speaker 2: quote the quote Stelle, and this group will still be
23:01
Speaker 2: a wildcard team because you're not giving up any of
23:04
Speaker 2: the core.
23:06
Speaker 1: You're not. They're all going to either.
23:07
Speaker 2: And you might add some guys that can instantly help.
23:10
Speaker 2: If it's like, hey, they got a crap ton of
23:12
Speaker 2: prospects where all the people they traded away, maybe they
23:14
Speaker 2: trade one of these big league guys away for a
23:16
Speaker 2: triple A ready guy and then next thing you know,
23:19
Speaker 2: that guy's a plug and play, or hey, and we
23:22
Speaker 2: have some depth at starting pitchers those step those guys
23:24
Speaker 2: come up from the minor leagues, and a couple of
23:26
Speaker 2: those guys hit and turn into a mid rotation guy
23:29
Speaker 2: that you can kind of be like, oh, that could
23:31
Speaker 2: be really good for us next year, and then we
23:32
Speaker 2: can build around those guys.
23:34
Speaker 1: So if you're close to five.
23:35
Speaker 2: Hundred, anybody that's on an expiring contract, get them, get them,
23:39
Speaker 2: get as much you can form, and then see what
23:41
Speaker 2: you can do to build around this core and then
23:43
Speaker 2: add more to it and then go into free agency
23:45
Speaker 2: and then say hey, I need three or I need
23:48
Speaker 2: two starters and I need a two back end.
23:50
Speaker 1: Guys.
23:50
Speaker 2: The next thing, you know, you're in a really good
23:52
Speaker 2: spot to come next year. But that doesn't mean you're
23:55
Speaker 2: not competing this year. That you look at Detroit did
23:57
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. They sold Clarity and they
24:00
Speaker 2: sold everybody, and the next thing, you know, the young
24:03
Speaker 2: kids came up and did what they got. So you know,
24:05
Speaker 2: maybe they do that and there's a little fresh run
24:07
Speaker 2: and all these fresh arms come up from Triple A
24:09
Speaker 2: and they have a run in the second half.
24:11
Speaker 1: Here, what a positive outlook, lance Lynn, You're welcome you
24:16
Speaker 1: you are a constant luck delight. That's gonna do it
24:19
Speaker 1: for this edition. Oh Cardinal Territory, We'll see you next time.
24:23
Speaker 1: Hopefully that episode won't suck.