Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Macra Terror (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Macra Terror (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm still a little bump in my to do it quicker.
• 0:39
  Go. Why don't you know?
• 0:43
  We don't know that PSI is right and we must obey.
• 0:46
  Let them know. Let them know, let them know.
• 0:48
  We're happy. Reach the morning with a shout
• 0:52
  phrases wrong. The sun is out, right?
• 0:57
  Welcome back to you. I have a super blunt penknife
• 1:00
  the Doctor Who commentary podcast a start subtle hint as
• 1:05
  to what we may be talking about today.
• 1:07
  So I Just yeah I don't think anyone would would would guess
• 1:12
  without it be. You could make it less obvious
• 1:15
  also study. She's I don't think this is the
• 1:17
  campus Doctor Who story out there but it has many Camp
• 1:20
  moments. Yes, what?
• 1:21
  That that's kind of odd really? Because you'd think it's say In
• 1:24
  Like a Holiday Camp so it should be be really camp, but it isn't
• 1:32
  is this the only time that the word gay is mentioned, until
• 1:37
  aliens of London, I think it might be.
• 1:40
  They have very different meanings, so don't they?
• 1:42
  Yes varied. I think trial says at one point,
• 1:46
  doesn't it? Well, this is gay.
• 1:48
  Yes he does. So we came to the conclusion
• 1:55
  that episode 1 was a very, very delicious scene setup.
• 1:59
  This Insidious Colony with dark secrets and it's very old
• 2:05
  William controller. Overseeing I got a question for
• 2:10
  you about the macra. Okay, what do you think that the
• 2:15
  Cliffhanger 2 episode 1 will spoil by having the Crab Claw on
• 2:19
  the time scanner at the end of the moon base?
• 2:23
  What kind of I've I can see why they're doing it because they
• 2:27
  want people to tune in next week, but it's very convenient
• 2:31
  that the doctor finds a Time scanner that he uses once and
• 2:35
  then never uses again. Just to get a bit of a false
• 2:39
  care out of the out of poly really more than anything and
• 2:43
  out of the audience I'll be very helpful you know if every week
• 2:47
  he was using that time scale. Oh look it's the Dalek Emperor.
• 2:50
  Oh my God. Is that dickhead from the side
• 2:54
  to the side man? It always shows you the monsters
• 2:59
  and then when yeah. Big way.
• 3:08
  I got a call right now. Um, it's, um, yeah, it's a bit
• 3:16
  of an old one, but it's not the only time like a bit of
• 3:20
  equipment has turned up for one stories purpose.
• 3:25
  Well, there are hundreds of examples of that.
• 3:28
  Well, I can think of the time his face visualizer.
• 3:32
  Yeah, which never gets mentioned again.
• 3:35
  There's that, that emergency unit that they Use in Creature
• 3:38
  from the pits. Oh, and also thankful to Cloris
• 3:42
  the emergency control in the mind robber, yet, it takes us
• 3:46
  out of the time-space by mention.
• 3:48
  Mmm, what else? Have we got the time Vector
• 3:51
  generator, that's what takes the dimension, from the start of
• 3:55
  willing space, which takes the dimensions of the TARDIS away
• 3:59
  because they're in trouble. Yeah, so okay we won't we won't
• 4:05
  be to need on the macro Tara then for no well I know that's
• 4:10
  the time control of the TARDIS Doctor.
• 4:11
  But what did you do at the end of the pyramids of Mars?
• 4:16
  Oh, bloody thing. Yeah, it took 22 minutes to get
• 4:21
  the way your waves from Earth to Mars.
• 4:23
  What we know you don't really like that story until the last
• 4:29
  episode. So Reminds me, it's tickets
• 4:32
  loves you more. It does well, because it's
• 4:35
  exactly the same as city of be excellent.
• 4:37
  I'd say not quite as good. This had a maze on the wall
• 4:40
  where. Yep.
• 4:42
  Oh dear. Oh dear.
• 4:43
  What? Okay, so we're heading in to
• 4:45
  episode 2 of the we are. And this is where all of our
• 4:49
  Sinister brain control. Yeah.
• 4:52
  All of this kicks off, doesn't it this week and I think it's
• 4:55
  one of the better examples of this in Doctor Who actually, and
• 5:00
  a lot of it is down to the Foreman says yes they do.
• 5:04
  Two very interesting things with their performances because of
• 5:08
  this as we will discuss. How does in then.
• 5:11
  Okay, if you start behaving, you know, in an unusual way, after
• 5:17
  I've been tossing in my sleep, that's not an unusual thing for
• 5:21
  you. All right?
• 5:25
  Counters in them. Okay, in five, four, three, two,
• 5:29
  one. Let's go.
• 5:32
  I had him he was a champion to say, you know.
• 5:35
  Wow, oh sorry. This is on air and air.
• 5:41
  Yes. What about these titles and car?
• 5:45
  I'm really like them. Now, I have a story about these
• 5:48
  titles because I have two story of Bravery.
• 5:51
  I'm almost went to meet a group of Doctor Who fans for the first
• 5:55
  time who lived in the village where I was living at the time
• 5:59
  and running my shop and much tossing going.
• 6:02
  Sorry. Okay, so I went into the pub and
• 6:08
  yourself, drink sat down and chatted to them, and then it's a
• 6:11
  drawer. And so we're having done the
• 6:18
  Topic for discussion this week, you know, instantly for all hang
• 6:22
  on. Okay, wasn't expecting a topic
• 6:25
  of discussion with the local with this local group of fans.
• 6:29
  So it is, I'm the trout in years.
• 6:31
  So Simon is our new person this week.
• 6:35
  Can you tell us what's your favorite moment in the Patrick
• 6:39
  troughton title sequence? And as I said, I'm obviously
• 6:44
  freaky are you taking the piss? Is this some kind of initiative
• 6:48
  tests to get in or and it turned out, they were incredibly
• 6:53
  serious and they were discussing the Patrick troughton title
• 6:55
  sequence, in huge detail and wants to know which part of the
• 6:59
  title sequence was my favorite moment.
• 7:01
  We police special effects. Do you know, do you hold in
• 7:04
  higher claims those? They're saying, well, you know,
• 7:06
  I've never really thought about which moment of the Patrick
• 7:09
  troughton title sequence was my favorite.
• 7:12
  I never went back now. I, you know, I actually went to
• 7:15
  one of those dogs through clubs, you know?
• 7:16
  The one embroidered on it one time, when I left went back as
• 7:19
  well, it was all a bit dictatorial and I think it's
• 7:25
  much more fun to find people like this, you know, less
• 7:29
  people. Yes.
• 7:31
  I I'm also there for a regimented set of talks each
• 7:35
  week since then. Have you given it much thought
• 7:37
  though? Do you now have a favorite
• 7:38
  moment? No, I don't.
• 7:40
  I was really like that. I like that effect at the end of
• 7:42
  the titles where you've got like the clouds coming towards you.
• 7:46
  That's very nice like that bit. That's the most face looks very
• 7:49
  Sinister. You know?
• 7:49
  Because it's mostly shot in weird.
• 7:52
  Ripples. Yeah.
• 7:53
  And there's very Stark black-and-white in the original
• 7:56
  version. So it looks really good.
• 7:58
  I love that. They put his animated face in
• 8:00
  the titles for these ones and they haven't just use the normal
• 8:02
  ones. Yeah, it's very cool.
• 8:06
  Did you ever see the original like when they put faces on the
• 8:09
  original Hartnell? Oh yeah.
• 8:11
  Yeah, fucking Sinister and he really was but Somehow it just
• 8:17
  works with trousers are big because he does look a bit
• 8:19
  Sinister. But also there's a vague smile
• 8:22
  on his face as well. So he's kind of I guess it's
• 8:26
  like his doctor unknowable and a bit slippery.
• 8:28
  But would you like me to Soaring and Sinister at the same time?
• 8:31
  When Colin Baker, brandishes, a smile or Sylvester McCoy, who
• 8:35
  Winks out the screen at yet, you just feel happy.
• 8:42
  Always say he's got a very nice secretary.
• 8:44
  The pilot isn't it? Yes.
• 8:45
  Lovely hair. It's very it's very Corporal
• 8:49
  Bell. It's very cool.
• 8:51
  Ah, okay, so he said here that the pilot has telecommunications
• 8:56
  with everywhere in the colony so he could spy on anyone.
• 9:00
  Yes. Sinister isn't?
• 9:02
  It horrible? Yeah, very invasive.
• 9:05
  Hmm. It's like, but again quite
• 9:07
  prescient Because I wasn't so much watching of the movement of
• 9:13
  your population at this time. And that was one of the fears,
• 9:17
  wasn't that people would be watching your every move and now
• 9:21
  people genuinely are watching our every move and they know
• 9:24
  where we've been and they can track us from our phones and
• 9:27
  know exactly where, what we've been up to.
• 9:30
  I think there's a preoccupation with being observed on camera
• 9:35
  but back at this point, as you know, Alex, So that's YouTube to
• 9:40
  Great. Absolutely, yes, yeah, and that
• 9:41
  was a yeah really really, really good.
• 9:47
  Friend of mine. Always says he always.
• 9:50
  When he thinks of the Patrick troughton era, he thinks of
• 9:54
  Patrick Trout's and talking to the audience through a screen
• 9:57
  because it happens in a lot of stories that he's talking to
• 10:00
  someone on a video screen. And that's his, his sort of take
• 10:04
  away from the trout. In a row is always Patrick
• 10:07
  troughton on a screen chatting with someone.
• 10:10
  There's a great moment in this, you know, where he's right on
• 10:14
  the see-through board. Yes, I don't know if that was
• 10:19
  exactly how it was. Shore, but he's basically
• 10:22
  talking to us, it's nice straight.
• 10:24
  Yeah, it's pretty well done. I just think, trousers
• 10:30
  incredible but I do genuinely find that it took him three or
• 10:35
  four stories to find where he wanted to be.
• 10:39
  I listen to him in not much under what medicine the
• 10:43
  Highlanders and is it's schizophrenic.
• 10:47
  He's all over the place, trying loads of things out.
• 10:50
  I think to see what his what's going to land.
• 10:54
  Whereas some later doctors I think like /, we pretty much got
• 10:58
  it. From the off, you know, in his
• 11:00
  first story, new ruin. Yeah.
• 11:04
  So with the first, first three stories you've got him dressing
• 11:07
  up and trying hats on and all of those sort of really eccentric
• 11:12
  things that get taken down in his doctor.
• 11:15
  I would like a hat. Like that sigh?
• 11:18
  Well, who wouldn't? Okay, right, I'm gonna hit you
• 11:23
  with phrases question for, okay, to you ready as Doctor Who fans
• 11:29
  are a funny Bunch, we have produced so much content in
• 11:32
  different media. Audios Comics novels, but we
• 11:37
  keep coming back to the missing stories first with the Recons.
• 11:40
  And now, with the animation, given that, there's no clamor to
• 11:43
  animate, a big finish or such, like, why are we drawn to
• 11:47
  recreate the missing episodes so much, or what the missing
• 11:52
  episodes? It's It's just something
• 11:56
  mysterious about having the missing episodes.
• 11:58
  Isn't that right? It's something that fans of our
• 12:02
  age, grew up with that. There are always be these
• 12:05
  stories that you'll never get to see.
• 12:07
  And for a long time, we didn't think we'd even get to sort of
• 12:10
  hear them, let alone anything else.
• 12:12
  So they're always just that little bit more unknowable than
• 12:16
  everything else and I think that that carries on to this day and
• 12:20
  so there's always this intrigued about we've got Clues to what
• 12:24
  was happening on the Screen, but we don't know for sure.
• 12:27
  And we've only got sort of the all the macro do not exist.
• 12:32
  Well, that's a giveaway, isn't it?
• 12:37
  But we get those tantalizing hints.
• 12:40
  So first of all, you've got the audios come back, so people have
• 12:44
  been recording it. So you've got that so you can
• 12:46
  hear the performances and then in the mid-90s, you get the
• 12:50
  Telly stamps. So you get all these visual
• 12:53
  Clues to things that you wouldn't have seen.
• 12:55
  Seen and so you get these tantalizing bits of a puzzle,
• 12:58
  almost there. And then then you get them to
• 13:02
  rated version so you have a bit more idea what's going on with
• 13:05
  the audio and and so on and so we're sort of it's like you're a
• 13:10
  living this great big mystery gradually until you get
• 13:15
  something like this where they take their best guess or an even
• 13:18
  bigger guess than they might have done at the time to
• 13:22
  recreate something. I think there's just it's just
• 13:27
  we also like having the gaps plugged on the Shelf, what I
• 13:31
  think. There's a massive Injustice
• 13:33
  behind the junking of them and the fact that we can't watch
• 13:36
  them, but all those different elements, you just said there
• 13:39
  and I throw in the Target novels as well.
• 13:41
  Oh God, yes, yeah. No, as faithful a re-creation as
• 13:44
  possible, in most cases and it's like putting a puzzle together,
• 13:49
  isn't it? Yeah, and you've got, you've got
• 13:52
  various different pieces and sort of their butt.
• 13:55
  You can't ever quite get to where it would have been on TV
• 13:59
  because the Telly Snaps are fascinating by what they show
• 14:04
  but also what they don't show. So and sow some seeds, you've
• 14:08
  got huge representation for another scenes.
• 14:11
  You've got to blurry pictures of Yeti walking down the
• 14:15
  underground or whatever and trying to make some sense.
• 14:19
  What's been your biggest surprise then of material that's
• 14:21
  come back. Where we had all these different
• 14:24
  versions of the Them, you know, replacing the actual episodes of
• 14:29
  all the episodes that have returned, like, what's been your
• 14:32
  biggest surprise? You know, I think it might have
• 14:38
  been Marga in Galax for in airlock doing the monologue to
• 14:46
  the screen and seeing the flashback playing being recorded
• 14:50
  at the same time, which wasn't something any of us could have
• 14:53
  known because oh no Telly snaps for For Galaxy for anyway.
• 14:57
  So that was always one of the more mysterious and unknowable
• 15:00
  stories as it was. So something like that I think
• 15:04
  was that I'm remember being absolutely amazed at the way,
• 15:08
  all the delegates moved in the Daleks master plan when we got
• 15:11
  day of Armageddon back that while I won't see him with his
• 15:14
  arms. Yeah, throbbing.
• 15:16
  And the way they all clap differently and things like
• 15:19
  that. So those are all you can hear
• 15:22
  what's going on. Hmm and you can imagine it but
• 15:25
  there's Always a surprise. You know what mine was, mine was
• 15:29
  the entirety but specifically the common Garden sequences in
• 15:34
  episode 4 of the web of full. It was so, unrelentingly
• 15:39
  violent. And so well paced like all you
• 15:42
  can here in the soundtrack is the music and the gunfire and
• 15:45
  that's real Roar of the Yeti. But when you actually saw the
• 15:48
  visuals like I thought to myself are this is Never Gonna live up
• 15:51
  to what I thought and it was fantastic.
• 15:55
  And then there It cuts from bar to that sequence in complete
• 15:58
  silence, where they're in the radio special.
• 16:01
  Yes, and the yeti comes in murders night and then attacks
• 16:06
  the doctor and I was like, this is how to say beating the yeti
• 16:10
  on the bag. Yeah.
• 16:15
  I can see why my mum always remembered that one and said
• 16:18
  that was was such a good story. So yeah, sometimes I think I
• 16:23
  think the conclusion we're drawing there is Sometimes no
• 16:26
  matter how good the animation is, how clean the soundtrack is,
• 16:30
  how faithful the target novelization is, sometimes it
• 16:36
  just cannot replace that material and I think that's what
• 16:40
  we long for. Yeah.
• 16:46
  Exactly. And talk to all over the Mind
• 16:48
  Control sequences half. You will think that everything
• 16:53
  in this commentary is good. Why not only agree with all of
• 17:00
  the Joe Ford's opinions whole time has been bloody
• 17:10
  brainwashed. Listening to that.
• 17:14
  Look, I'll tell you, there's one word that describes trown is and
• 17:19
  I kissed. Yes.
• 17:22
  He is always an amicus, and that's something that runs right
• 17:25
  through his, his era, all the way through.
• 17:28
  So you touch back on it in the crotons, for instance, as well
• 17:32
  and machines. Yeah.
• 17:36
  So why is it that Jamie is not under macro control because he
• 17:41
  will only take orders from the doctor?
• 17:43
  Oh, I thought, maybe because you had a simple mind, well, as
• 17:46
  possible. This is different as well, isn't
• 17:50
  it? Because in the televised
• 17:53
  version, Jamie and Ben are in a different room to Polly.
• 17:57
  Yes, but for ease of Animation their share because it doesn't
• 18:01
  make someone the doctor goes. Huh?
• 18:03
  What am I thinking of Beth and Jamie?
• 18:05
  And then literally, yes, a meter away from him.
• 18:07
  Yeah. But this is really, this is, as
• 18:14
  we said in part one, Michael craze at his best and the
• 18:20
  choice. He makes here to drop Ben's
• 18:22
  Cockney accent and talk in a very flat accents.
• 18:26
  Yeah, it's really good. Our good way of showing that
• 18:28
  he's under control and it gives him something to play with later
• 18:32
  on when he's struggling against the control.
• 18:35
  Because he goes from one side, the other does.
• 18:36
  Yeah you can go between the voices to see where he is at
• 18:39
  that point. So it gives the audience Some
• 18:41
  really good things to hang a hook on.
• 18:44
  It's an interesting choice, been isn't because it could have been
• 18:48
  any one of the four of them playing.
• 18:49
  Yes. And I'm kind of pleased that
• 18:53
  happened here because it does give him an opportunity to give
• 18:56
  like a more thoughtful performers before he leaves the
• 18:59
  show. Yes.
• 19:02
  Because he's a really good actor and it doesn't get enough
• 19:05
  enough. Kudos for that there's no work
• 19:07
  after this did. No no he didn't.
• 19:08
  He really struggled he had quite a sad life sort of his acting
• 19:13
  career, didn't take off. He went into hotel management
• 19:16
  and sort of running bars and things like that.
• 19:19
  I saw a scene in Documentary where he pulls a pine in this
• 19:25
  van. That's right.
• 19:25
  Yeah, dingy old hotel. Yeah.
• 19:29
  And there's just all rather sad really?
• 19:32
  Whereas Annika Wheels. Like I didn't.
• 19:36
  She left the country and she's yes, you went to India and went
• 19:39
  to find herself. And yeah, yeah.
• 19:41
  And obviously she was married to Michael golf that they probably
• 19:44
  had a lavish lifestyle and orbs are horrible.
• 19:48
  Life's work was very abusive. Of really want violent violent.
• 19:53
  Yeah, and a difficult man, her autobiography.
• 19:58
  These are amazing reads. Absolutely.
• 20:01
  Oh, they're downstairs. You know?
• 20:02
  Yeah, they're yeah, they're really good.
• 20:04
  She had, she's had a fascinating, and interesting and
• 20:08
  difficult and Brilliant. Life is, but you know what I, I
• 20:13
  saw footage of she did like a birthday celebration thing last
• 20:18
  year where you could cut. I attend our and it Because umm,
• 20:22
  coal and she be there and like, live in old age.
• 20:27
  She's gone off the rails a little bit, but she wasn't on
• 20:30
  form in that asshole. And she was like, she was having
• 20:34
  a girl about these animations saying that she had a lot of
• 20:36
  opinions about how they were drawing her and why can't you
• 20:39
  get any bright and how because they don't actually it's it's
• 20:45
  almost her but it's I don't know, it's slightly off
• 20:50
  bissonnette. Yeah, I mean she's got a
• 20:52
  different look in this anyway as yeah.
• 20:56
  Short hair, let's say I'm sorry and I think in pair of the
• 21:01
  Daleks they didn't do Michael craze Justice.
• 21:03
  And this is a much better version of Michael craze and we
• 21:07
  saw in Empower. I feel like all the movements
• 21:10
  are a lot more fluid as well. Yes.
• 21:12
  Yeah they've got the hang of moving people and it's still not
• 21:17
  brilliant, but it's so much better.
• 21:19
  Yeah, I mean I think if they had more, that's really creepy.
• 21:24
  Yeah. She's against the What he's
• 21:25
  almost like playing with her as he knows there.
• 21:28
  Then he brings his arm trying to ferret around.
• 21:30
  Yeah make her jump. Yeah.
• 21:33
  Although these sequences now I love the animation of the macro
• 21:36
  crab coming out of the dark because you just know it was
• 21:40
  going to be like this thing that was wheeled out in the real
• 21:43
  thing. Don't you?
• 21:44
  You know well some of this scene exists, doesn't it?
• 21:46
  I think this is one of the Australian sensor clip so you've
• 21:49
  got, you can see the macra wobble interview.
• 21:54
  So the size and cost of a mini you just sees that the glowing
• 21:58
  eyes coming out and the scuttling and things like that.
• 22:03
  I think, I don't think the original macropods prop could
• 22:06
  Scuttle. I think they definitely didn't
• 22:09
  the /. We are, they learn how to do
• 22:11
  like big big? Yes, creatures.
• 22:15
  You know, the spiders, the maggots, things like that.
• 22:19
  Yeah, look at that. Coming up the door, but it's
• 22:21
  good. It's nice.
• 22:23
  Oh, Benson Shoals, I want short shorts as well.
• 22:28
  Got nice coughs. That's right.
• 22:32
  And this was that stage as well. Wasn't it?
• 22:35
  Where they basically they ditch the historicals now?
• 22:39
  And yes, Doctor Who is going to be kind of more about the
• 22:45
  monsters. Yeah, it's your sci-fi based on
• 22:47
  distinct Siege. Some stories for now on really
• 22:51
  isn't it? Although the faceless ones is a
• 22:54
  bit of a, an oddity in this era and again they do they do much
• 22:58
  the same thing with the accents when they're possessed by the
• 23:01
  chameleons because but of Kay's character inspects Crossland
• 23:05
  loses, his strong, Northern accent and becomes very
• 23:08
  generically, sort of flat as well and phrase.
• 23:12
  The Heinz does the same trick, doesn't he when he's possessed,
• 23:14
  he loses the Scottish. There was there was this sort of
• 23:19
  bizarre obsession with losing your identity.
• 23:22
  Yeah, maybe that's. That's sort of it.
• 23:24
  Yeah. Because the faceless ones is
• 23:25
  very much about a race who lost their their own identities in a
• 23:30
  cosmic. Storm or something.
• 23:34
  So, yeah. And they're just flat and
• 23:36
  they've got nothing. I find the face as was very
• 23:38
  boring. You know?
• 23:39
  Hmm. Interesting.
• 23:41
  You like that one? I don't do quite like that one.
• 23:43
  I'm quite fond of that one. I feel like I could have been a
• 23:46
  --pay C4, but it's a, yes, six. Although I do love the bit where
• 23:52
  the plane goes up and turns, into the spaceship.
• 23:55
  Yeah, that's really cool item. But you know, where you get
• 23:58
  right? When we said a couple of times
• 24:00
  in Episode 1 about this being a transitionary period And then
• 24:05
  trying to figure out who the companions are going to be who
• 24:08
  travels doctors going to be, what the tone of the shows going
• 24:11
  to be, is I find season 5? It's probably trousers most
• 24:16
  confident year in terms of how its realized because every story
• 24:21
  in five looks really, really good, but it is essentially the
• 24:25
  same story over and over again. It's yeah, it's some kind of
• 24:28
  Base under some kind of spell. Each.
• 24:32
  But hey, you've got my power of the Daleks, which is a tie
• 24:37
  fabulous story. Yeah.
• 24:38
  One of the best best six parties of them all.
• 24:42
  And I just wish is like your last stab at the Historical.
• 24:45
  Yeah, Mad Comic absolutely insane story.
• 24:50
  Then you get like probably the quintessential based on The
• 24:53
  Siege in the moon base. Yeah.
• 24:55
  Where they just basically remake, the tenth planet, only
• 24:58
  far, far better and far more. Or competently and then stylish
• 25:03
  Li. Yeah and you've got this which
• 25:06
  is got a little more substance to it and is very sort of creepy
• 25:12
  mind control story. Then you have the faceless ones
• 25:15
  which is quite epic in what it's trying to do and got brilliant
• 25:19
  outdoor filming in that app. Gatwick airports the very 1960s.
• 25:26
  And then you've got evil of the Daleks which is basically all of
• 25:30
  Doctor Who the past the present, the future alien world is in one
• 25:34
  story. Yeah, they're just doing the
• 25:35
  whole lot so then Y is 4 wide. I find people argue between 5 &
• 25:43
  6 as the best trout in years. Yeah I'm for always again I
• 25:49
  think felt neglected because I think it's fair for a couple of
• 25:54
  reasons. Firstly, Five had early target
• 26:00
  books. So the Abominable Tomb of the
• 26:03
  Cybermen the Abominable Snowman. The ice Warriors and web of
• 26:06
  fear. We're all done in the 70s.
• 26:08
  So they were always there. Like they were really well-known
• 26:12
  stories because everyone had the books to read.
• 26:15
  So they were part of the fabric season six, one out because it
• 26:20
  had episodes that actually whole stories that existed LOL.
• 26:24
  So yeah. So Everything bar.
• 26:27
  Those episodes of The Invasion and the space pirates.
• 26:31
  Everything is there. So you can watch it.
• 26:34
  You might not like it but you can watch it.
• 26:36
  But episode 4, sorry season for it didn't have books until the
• 26:42
  1980s apart from the moon base. So that one was known,
• 26:48
  everything else of it existed in it.
• 26:50
  Yeah, there were worse. Can't episodes which you didn't
• 26:54
  get to see. Everyone.
• 26:59
  Everyone liked the Dalek stories but the rest of it was sort of
• 27:04
  just unknowable. Yeah.
• 27:08
  So it's yeah. It's about I think it's sort of
• 27:11
  got overlooked for those reasons.
• 27:12
  It just didn't ever get its moment in the sun where I've
• 27:16
  been the range of Storytelling in season 4, and c.
• 27:19
  And season six, vastly Superior to what they do in season five.
• 27:24
  But the season five stories are made so competently.
• 27:27
  And and brilliantly. I remember watching the to Yeti
• 27:31
  episodes when they had the Doctor Who be a speed weekends
• 27:34
  in 1990 and having that, that weird moment of thing.
• 27:39
  Actually, no C60 stop to who is as brilliant as 70s Doctor Who
• 27:45
  and 80s Doctor. Who But just in in different
• 27:49
  ways and they're very atmospheric and I wasn't
• 27:51
  expecting them to beautiful. Have this feeling when you're
• 27:54
  young that old stuff in the 60s, must be worse than stuff.
• 27:58
  That's made now, but it's different.
• 28:01
  Alright? Then while I'm going to ask you
• 28:03
  and as the episodes ended a very unfair question given right?
• 28:10
  We've just talked about and we haven't even mentioned the
• 28:13
  Smugglers. And the tenth planet know which
• 28:17
  is You know the fun of her are William Hartnell.
• 28:20
  What's your favorite trout? And seasoned side.
• 28:23
  Haha, that's very unfair, Joe. Oh it's really hard because
• 28:31
  there are things that I love in all of them and things that I
• 28:34
  don't like in all of them. So I mean I can answer very
• 28:37
  quickly mind 16 and that's just because I think the trout and
• 28:42
  Heinz pad every relationship is unbeaten.
• 28:47
  It it's just I I actually would air on that side as well because
• 28:53
  I think they are one of the best and most unsung Tardis teams in
• 28:58
  Doctor Who history, obviously, three kids going around the
• 29:00
  university and they're just having fun.
• 29:03
  And it's just that brilliant relationship of Zoe being
• 29:07
  smarter than doctor in some ways, but the doctor being super
• 29:10
  smart but hiding it Jamie being the kid brother that you is just
• 29:17
  just The muscle almost, and, yeah.
• 29:19
  And so, yeah, no. It's just, they're just an
• 29:22
  absolute joy to watching every single story.
• 29:25
  I would want to travel with those three as I just see a
• 29:29
  blast and a half. Whereas I'd be a bit unsure
• 29:31
  about this 3 because I don't know how polyol been would treat
• 29:34
  me if I'm honest and I want Victoria because she'd irritate
• 29:37
  the fuck out of me. I'll know that.
• 29:39
  No whining, we talked over but that's really great Cliffhanger
• 29:46
  at the end of yes. Yes.
• 29:48
  Yeah, we've done a lot of talking, like, for the action
• 29:50
  without talking about the action.
• 29:52
  Well, well I'll tell you what, we'll focus more in the last
• 29:54
  two. Yes.
• 29:55
  Because I do want to talk about Peter Jeffrey as well, because
• 29:58
  he's really good and other members of the cast who are
• 30:00
  really good, but they do it. And I've really lovely animation
• 30:05
  Choice there where the camera cuts to the disheveled
• 30:08
  controller. Yes.
• 30:10
  And then the camera was not a camera because this animation
• 30:14
  but the camera is tipped and then you just see That the macra
• 30:18
  shadow scuttling towards and that's, I mean, is that
• 30:22
  brilliant special thing of what you don't see rather than what
• 30:26
  you do solutely and sort of think about this going back,
• 30:29
  this is sort of triggered a memory.
• 30:32
  So going back to what you were saying about what I was season
• 30:35
  for overlooked, because there weren't any pictures.
• 30:40
  There were no photos. So they're from the macro Tara,
• 30:43
  there are a couple of photos of the controller and the pilots.
• 30:47
  And the old sort of controller with the claw coming at him.
• 30:56
  So that was it from this story. There was nothing else so
• 30:59
  there's nothing to show you what it was like holding a whole.
• 31:02
  Yes that's right. Yeah but there wasn't anything
• 31:08
  else so you had no idea what it looked like.
• 31:10
  Have no idea. What a macro.
• 31:12
  I thought the most bizarre Leo's think the macro was like a small
• 31:17
  Each other that was with a claw at the end.
• 31:19
  Like a big insect and that was it.
• 31:21
  I didn't know that there was this big creature behind the
• 31:24
  claw. Do you remember when they
• 31:25
  started printing like one episode of the Telly snaps in
• 31:28
  Doctor Who magazine? Yes.
• 31:30
  So it's just really, really exciting.
• 31:32
  Awesome. Sticky Pages.
• 31:33
  Then sigh. I'm telling you and I was
• 31:36
  scrutinizing. Every fire.
• 31:40
  Tiny picture. Yeah.
• 31:42
  Just going. Oh my God.
• 31:43
  What did that look like movie? Yeah.
• 31:45
  And suddenly, you get to see the sets that you would Didn't see
• 31:48
  and other characters that you have no idea what they look
• 31:51
  like. So maybe there's nothing that
• 31:53
  maybe that's the answer to two phrases.
• 31:55
  Question is the reason why we're so obsessed with these missing
• 31:59
  episodes is because we want to see them so badly.
• 32:03
  We scrutinized what evidence there is there is so much I
• 32:08
  think you're right. I usually am