Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #182: Joel Williams-UNC-Asheville

Transcript

#182: Joel Williams-UNC-Asheville · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Welcome to season 3 of gila politics connection podcast.
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  See what today's guest has in store for us.
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  Alright, welcome back here to The Gila buttocks connections
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  podcast. We're so humbled that you would
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  join us again. I'm really am appreciative, you
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  know, we're getting near the end of our season three, three,
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  whole years of doing this podcast.
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  And you know what, I tell you what it has been a blast every
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  single episode all the way through, as we hit number 182
• 1:00
  today for today's podcast. So before we introduce today's
• 1:04
  guests. Just a quick shout-out, quick
• 1:07
  update, if you are going to be at the you stf, CCC a convention
• 1:11
  in December. We are we're taking the show on
• 1:14
  the road. We, I was challenged to do this
• 1:16
  and I don't know, maybe I should have not done this challenge,
• 1:19
  but we're going to do the podcast live at the convention.
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  So, we're going to do a recording right in the Gila Flex
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  Booth down there in the vendor area from 5 to 7, p.m. the very
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  first night that Monday, 12, 12, December 12.
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  So, we're just going to have coaches.
• 1:34
  Come by, if you're there, please come by.
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  We're going to do five issue minute, kind of short, quick
• 1:39
  interviews. There and just do it live
• 1:41
  through YouTube. So if you're not at the
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  convention you can join us on YouTube live and participate
• 1:47
  through the chat and we'll just have a great time and or no
• 1:50
  one's going to show up. And you'll just have to.
• 1:51
  Listen I'll talk for two hours and you'll hang up and this will
• 1:54
  be the worst event we've ever done in the whole world.
• 1:56
  So hopefully you'll be there. December 12th five to seven PM
• 1:58
  Denver time at the u.s. tfcc a convention.
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  Okay, let's get on to it today I'm pumped, I might have might
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  have laughed more in the little pre-interview.
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  We just did then any I've ever had before.
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  So I'm kind of got excited for this one.
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  Help me. Welcome.
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  The head coach of UNC Asheville, the wise, the wonderful, mr.
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  Joel Williams, Joe, how are you, sir?
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  Good, are you Mike? Well, I'm doing good now.
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  That we actually are here, do you?
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  I didn't even ask you, okay? Can we kind of share?
• 2:30
  Sure. Okay, so because I thought was
• 2:32
  kite, I wasn't involved. So I thought it was comical, you
• 2:35
  actually had to deal with agile, so we Joe and I have had the
• 2:39
  schedule now for about a week. Week week and a half and we've
• 2:41
  had to pause it to put it on to delay it a little bit because
• 2:45
  Joel you're going to tell us why Joel literal.
• 2:48
  I mean he wasn't trying to get out of this Joe lost his voice.
• 2:51
  He called me up one day and I thought it was like it was near
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  Halloween, so I thought was like a spooky, you know, prank call,
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  he sounded bad, my man. So Joe, what happened?
• 3:00
  Because you sound way better now my friend?
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  Yeah, I don't sound great, but I definitely are much much
• 3:06
  improved version of what I was a week ago.
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  I had a pretty significant sign. Affection.
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  And it just led to a really sore throat and then essentially
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  laryngitis. So it's been a slow road back
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  but it's I'm getting there. So, yeah, because you were like,
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  I said at first, I was like, oh, this is Jules way of he's, yeah,
• 3:25
  he's getting out of here. And then when we talked on the
• 3:27
  phone, I felt so bad because you were, you know, you were like,
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  oh Mike, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.
• 3:31
  And I feel bad. Every word you said I was like,
• 3:33
  yeah Joel. No it's good.
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  Don't talk. You let me know email me because
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  it sounds like it hurts. That's why I wanted to call you.
• 3:41
  I wanted to make sure that you understood my, it's easier to
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  say have laryngitis, I can't do it to email but I want you to
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  hear it without putting on any kind of act.
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  It was definitely not an act. I do enjoy not being able to
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  speak somebody. Yeah, I couldn't imagine, you
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  know, hopefully that ever happened to me because I don't
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  know how we'll do a podcast if that ever goes down, man, so I
• 3:59
  don't delay a bit. Yeah, we can, you do a podcast
• 4:01
  just through text messaging, maybe I could do it that way -
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  find out. Well, hopefully you won't have
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  to. Yeah, thank you.
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  Exactly. Well Joel, you know, we started
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  This podcast, many years ago now, to uplift and honor coaches
• 4:13
  around the country. This is one of those.
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  I've said this before on a few podcasts, these are the most
• 4:19
  exciting for me personally as the host here is because Joe,
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  you and I actually don't know each other.
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  I have to think just in your coaching career, and my coaching
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  career and Gil, that we've at least passed aways.
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  And it said hi, or something that convention or something,
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  but we certainly don't know each other.
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  And those, these type right here are my favorite in the whole
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  world because it's a blank slate.
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  Eight. I just get to kind of learn
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  along with the audience about how you got into coaching and
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  the stops along the way and just kind of philosophies and things
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  like that. So, I'm super excited about
• 4:48
  today. Same here.
• 4:50
  Yeah, I'm very excited. Like I said, I've enjoyed a lot
• 4:52
  of your podcast in the past and I appreciate getting a chance to
• 4:55
  be with you today. Now, that means a lot to me,
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  Joe, thank you for that. So, Joel, you know, I'd like to
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  start these podcast out by asking, you know, at some time
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  assuming that you were an athlete coaching change for you,
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  and your mindset, it went from something.
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  We that was done to you. Go run this, go throw this,
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  whatever to like, wow, like this could actually be my career.
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  Like I could do this. Where does coaching begin for
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  you? It's I go way back to the early
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  80s. I can recall of all places a
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  two-part article in Runner's World magazine and it was by
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  George. Gandy was Sebastian Coes
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  Collegiate coach. His dad was his coach his whole
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  career but his but George candy. Who is responsible for
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  programming his circuit training, his strength training,
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  his plyometric training, speed drills, Etc.
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  And it never dawned on me because I was very young, but it
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  never dawned on me until that point like, oh wow, you don't
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  just go wrong to be a good runner or a good athlete.
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  There are many different. We would receive at this point
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  like multilateral training. There's a lot of different
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  Avenues to getting better and that fascinated me.
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  Even at a young age, it doesn't mean I got right into coaching
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  because I still had to go through Middle school, high
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  school, finished, Middle School. Get go through high school and
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  then I recall also a book by Jim Murray called inside
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  weightlifting and a weight training and it was in it, it
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  refers to track and field news and it said some people's
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  strength programs are actually listed in track and field news
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  articles. Sometimes it just the fact that
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  there was a magazine devoted to track appeals fascinated with
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  like oh I kind of like that sport.
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  Let me find out a little bit more so that around that same
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  year. 1980, I kind of got an interest in coaching and a
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  greater interest in learning more about the sport, did you?
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  I love that I'm a reader myself. So I love that reading kind of
• 6:54
  sparked this like, oh, wait a minute.
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  There's, there's coaching, like, people do this, and there's
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  multilateral, there's different ways of doing this.
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  Did you can you remember, did you like the next day, you went
• 7:03
  to practice. Did you?
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  Look at coach differently in the sense of like, oh, wait a
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  minute. I could be you.
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  I never thought I could actually be you.
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  And I honestly thought to about while there's a lot of things
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  we're not doing that. I just read about, which isn't
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  to say it was wrong. It was just this coach chooses
• 7:19
  to do these things. This coach choose to do these
• 7:22
  things. Another coach choose to do maybe
• 7:23
  a combination of those items. So, it just made me realize,
• 7:27
  wow, every program isn't going to be the same, that there's
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  going to be variety from coach to coach.
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  And a lot of that is born in their influences.
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  I love glad that you mentioned track and field news.
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  We actually had the managing editor eat Berryhill as a guest
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  way back in the day and, you know, it's one of those.
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  I know, they kind of self-titled themselves, the Bible of the
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  sport, but what I remember that through high school and college
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  and what a great and I kind of miss my love.
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  I'm a digital guy. So I love digital things but for
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  reading, I still like that, that paper in my hand, i'm they've
• 7:58
  gone back to that to as an option, I believe.
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  Oh no. Is that right?
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  It went its digital but I believe you also.
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  Now have the paper option. Again, I think I started that in
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  the last year. Maybe I could be wrong about
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  that, but I think You have both options.
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  Know, I'll have to look into that because I miss it's one
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  thing to see. I told Gary and I it's still
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  True to this day the check until news.com is kind of like my my
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  New York Times or my Wall Street Journal.
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  You know, he's some people that's how they wake up and so
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  what I get into the office, the first website I pull up is track
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  and field news to look down there headlines on the side.
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  Yeah. And then their own future
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  articles on the left side. Hell yeah.
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  You know. And that's where we get track
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  coach used to be trying because you have right out there if you
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  have a subscription. To that.
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  But yeah, I do the same thing. It's yeah.
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  Oh, and it's like, usually something you may not find
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  anywhere else. Like, oh that happened yesterday
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  or today? Yeah.
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  I mean, I live my life on Twitter mostly because where I
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  get all my news and information, there's still things I find on
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  checking for news.com that did not show up on Twitter yet, it's
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  totally awesome. Man.
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  What's also I love that. That's how you kind of get your
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  foray into coaching. Did that spark through high
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  school? Did that spark more reading and
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  researching into how to train for track and field and what
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  were you doing any other? It's I was football for part of
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  high school and then we moved to Atlanta to North Carolina and I
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  quit playing football but I stay with track wasn't very good.
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  I feel like I could have made some better decisions on how I
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  train myself. Looking back course.
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  Now, you after all these years, you better have figured out
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  something better. Or what?
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  Are you? What are you doing?
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  What? What have you learned?
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  But I end up getting a subscription to the end.
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  I give my mom credit for this. My mom always inspired me to
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  read. Read, read read to learn read
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  for entertainment, but educate yourself at least informally
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  through reading, so, I can recall any time, we go to a
• 9:52
  drugstore or newsstand that if I wanted a magazine or a book, I
• 9:58
  don't know that she ever turned me down on that so I give my mom
• 10:00
  total credit for that but I actually got a subscription to
• 10:04
  the nsca back in the early 80s and that kind of made a Spartan
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  Tristan strength training is strength training, how it
• 10:13
  affected Athletics and athletic performance.
• 10:16
  So I was reading those books and I was reading a lot of books
• 10:19
  early on. Yeah, I love to read and just
• 10:22
  ideas, you get, sometimes it's a reminder or something you did in
• 10:25
  the past that you may owe wonder.
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  Why? I let that go out of my program.
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  I need to bring that back in, things like that.
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  But yeah, I love reading. I think I'd say that's the way
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  you stay current. And yeah, that's way a way to
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  spark new ideas. Yeah.
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  I I agree as a lifetime learner and reader.
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  I 100% agree with you. It's interesting.
• 10:45
  What you're kind of describing here.
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  I feel like you're talking about like a manual version and analog
• 10:52
  version of Internet coaching. So, you know, in today's world
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  we talked about kids, like I'll get off the YouTube, get off the
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  social media. All these, you know, air quotes,
• 11:02
  internet coaches, trust me in my program.
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  You're doing this on paper, back in the, because we can have
• 11:06
  those things. So you're reading track to track
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  and field. Use and nsca as a high schooler
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  good Lord. You're a little bit overachiever
• 11:13
  on that one. Did you, how did that work with
• 11:16
  your relationship with Coach as you're learning things and could
• 11:19
  remember what a different era back then?
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  We didn't have YouTube and Clinics and online clinics and
• 11:26
  usatf coaching education, things like that.
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  Well, I have those is readily available.
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  So, how did that work within your relationship with your high
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  school coach? Well, I remember, getting after
• 11:36
  getting a subscription track and field news ends up, started
• 11:39
  ordering some of their books. Books, one of the best ones was
• 11:42
  training Theory by Frank dick on the five, biomotor abilities.
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  And then McFarland later expanded that to 6s is including
• 11:51
  psychology as an S. But that was really important.
• 11:55
  And I ordered track and field Omni book by kin dirty and they
• 11:59
  end up. They accidentally sent me two
• 12:01
  copies so I ended up giving one copy to my high school coach,
• 12:05
  you had just been installed as the new track coach you know,
• 12:08
  track and field. Ovid oftentimes was Who the guy
• 12:11
  that threw the raw? It seemed like like who has no
• 12:15
  experience coaching attract me? All right, we want you.
• 12:18
  Yeah, I know it's not always like that but a lot of times
• 12:20
  they would never do that with a football coach but they wouldn't
• 12:23
  think twice about doing that, which I feel, but I gave my
• 12:25
  coach that and I think it helped give him some ideas of some
• 12:30
  because he was just new to the sport and I was still new to the
• 12:33
  sport myself. So just I think that helped him
• 12:36
  and I think it helped me get an understanding of the sport
• 12:39
  little bit better. Her.
• 12:40
  How did he react to that? There's a couple of ways he
• 12:43
  could have react, right? He and I knew him pretty well.
• 12:45
  He took it very well said coach. I got two copies so I wasn't
• 12:49
  saying like I bought you this car driver, right?
• 12:54
  Yeah. But the truth about it that I
• 13:05
  had gotten two copies by accident and I decided you know,
• 13:08
  I want to give you a copy Just he appreciated that.
• 13:11
  Yeah, shout out to him because what he showed there was
• 13:14
  humility because you can call me that was getting to.
• 13:17
  That was isn't it? Dave McConnell a shout out today
• 13:20
  because you know, and even like maybe excusable if you would
• 13:25
  have said yeah his reaction was. Yeah.
• 13:27
  Thanks kid. You stay down there.
• 13:30
  I'll stay the coaching. But instead he was like, humbled
• 13:32
  and like, hail, thanks man. I'll let me look into this.
• 13:34
  Maybe there's something here for sure.
• 13:35
  That is West Forsyth High School.
• 13:37
  This is known for Chris Paul. He went to school.
• 13:40
  Oh yeah. Attacker, the wrestler, who was
• 13:43
  in City Heat, he went there to the more famous alumni, so those
• 13:47
  two and you that's good. The top three right there.
• 13:50
  I'm sure they go around. Telling people they went to my
• 13:52
  high school exaggerated, I'm gonna start a basketball podcast
• 13:57
  just so I can interview Chris, Paul and ask.
• 13:59
  Hey, so tell me about role. Exactly who.
• 14:03
  Hey that might be the name of the podcast.
• 14:04
  Tell me about Joel a basketball Chronicles.
• 14:07
  Yeah. We'll shout out to Dave
• 14:08
  McConnell because like I said, That's a stance of humility to
• 14:14
  be able to have a kid on his team.
• 14:16
  Have an extra book and you probably explained it right.
• 14:18
  Although you know where high schoolers I don't know maybe if
• 14:20
  you did explain that. Right?
• 14:21
  Because we make mistakes as high schoolers but for him to have
• 14:23
  that stance and say, okay let me read it, let's see if we can
• 14:26
  learn anything. So we didn't actually kind of
• 14:30
  hinted at what kind of events were you were you Sprinter throw
• 14:32
  her? I'd is kind of odd.
• 14:34
  I went you know, typically you move up in distance and I moved
• 14:38
  down and distance and It up in starting High School.
• 14:42
  I was like, 125 130 when I graduated about 185 and wow, I
• 14:47
  ended up going from the mile and the 8 down to the for the tune
• 14:51
  and end up just running real age pretty much.
• 14:55
  And when in the recruiting process I tell is if a recruit
• 14:59
  comes to us to say, here's my real a times, like, I don't know
• 15:02
  what that even means with respect.
• 15:03
  You, well, my dad got this 100 meters played, like I don't even
• 15:08
  know how useful that hundred meters, but I don't know if that
• 15:10
  A 90 M split or what, but if I if I kid wanted to go to college
• 15:16
  to compete, I would kind of challenge.
• 15:17
  Even the way I did it. I should have I should have
• 15:20
  asked to do more open events. So or just do open events period
• 15:24
  in real quick before we start getting a college here, you
• 15:27
  know, I thought it was important.
• 15:29
  The way you said, mom really challenge you to read and really
• 15:34
  supported like you, you know, I want that book.
• 15:36
  Boom done. I want this magazine.
• 15:37
  Great bum done, what was mom a teacher.
• 15:40
  Or what was her kind of woman? Administrative Assistant through
• 15:45
  a number of companies, on know if I should, I guess.
• 15:48
  Is they're not competitors. But yeah, Banks mortgage
• 15:51
  companies Etc. But she always encouraged us to
• 15:55
  read my sister. And I, my sister was a much
• 15:58
  better student of the to. She went to Georgia, Tech, grad.
• 16:01
  Oh, yeah. So she's much better suited than
• 16:03
  I was. It took me, I call it the 24 for
• 16:05
  program. It took me 20 years to get a
• 16:07
  four-year degree. I had a big gap.
• 16:08
  There is that right? Yeah, that's true.
• 16:11
  It's with the 24 for program. Okay, let's get into this.
• 16:14
  The 24 for I've heard of the six year plans and all this the 24
• 16:19
  for. So you go to college, tell us
• 16:23
  where you are and where you ended up choosing, and what was
• 16:25
  your idea for a profession? They went in to do a major
• 16:29
  because I'm going to become an accountant.
• 16:31
  What was the initial idea? Going into college and tell us
• 16:34
  about this 24 for yeah. So I say that people.
• 16:38
  I'm not familiar with that. Please like.
• 16:39
  That's because it Doesn't exist in any type of real world, but
• 16:43
  it did in mind but I started at Western Carolina for a couple
• 16:47
  years and then when I was there, I was the guy that had granted
• 16:52
  transfer from Appalachian State to Western.
• 16:55
  And I had talked to him about, I was starting to get an interest
• 17:00
  in exercise science. I don't know what my initial I
• 17:03
  think. I was maybe more interested in
• 17:04
  PE the beginning and he said, well, there's some really good
• 17:08
  people exercise science. Why?
• 17:10
  Is it appstate? So end up transferring there and
• 17:14
  he was right. Some of the we had outstanding
• 17:16
  professors really out in the App State continues to have its and
• 17:20
  I will say this is not a p State, it's just appstate about
• 17:23
  the Washington State. Yeah, but I went to Troy
• 17:26
  University, so AB States kind of a rival.
• 17:30
  I might I would call it a p State except for their new track
• 17:33
  facility is all Gil. So yes State.
• 17:35
  Yeah Damien and those guys, I love them to death.
• 17:38
  So I saw it about Out two weeks ago where they have, I think
• 17:41
  they just finished the concrete and it looks like it looks
• 17:44
  great. Yeah, they think it's gonna be
• 17:46
  me and, you know, you went there that campus is just Bonkers.
• 17:50
  I mean, it's amazing, really amazing.
• 17:52
  Interestingly, where the crack is now is the old Watauga High
• 17:57
  School where I started coaching, so the exact location that
• 18:02
  they're putting your new track in is where we had our high
• 18:04
  school track and try practices wowza.
• 18:07
  All right, we're athletes is the pole vault coach App State And I
• 18:11
  said, how weird is it for you to now be coaching?
• 18:14
  He just started a week ago at the place where you went to high
• 18:17
  school and you competed and practiced on this same.
• 18:21
  Should certainly not the same track, but the same location.
• 18:24
  Yeah, that's really it. Because apps app ended up buying
• 18:27
  that's what wild because the campus, obviously, they
• 18:31
  enrollment has gone so far up, I had expand.
• 18:34
  Yeah, yeah. That's, that's kind of, that's
• 18:37
  weird. Yeah, so okay.
• 18:39
  So you transferred out. State.
• 18:41
  But we're just twenty years coming.
• 18:43
  You didn't get your degrees and kind of got gotten away.
• 18:46
  I often hope this sounds right. Obviously I mean is I tell
• 18:52
  people I ended up getting jobs to support my track habit and
• 18:57
  and then I just went went away from school and eventually I
• 19:00
  realized if I want to do something beyond the high
• 19:03
  school, I one end up going back to school and not for teaching.
• 19:08
  I wasn't going to get certified to teach.
• 19:09
  I did I wasn't Interested in that.
• 19:10
  I had done substitute teaching at the high school but I was not
• 19:14
  interested in teaching as a career, even though we know
• 19:17
  coaching is if you do it right. It is teach hundred percent but
• 19:20
  not, it's not necessary classroom setting.
• 19:23
  So Just a bunch of years why I didn't go and I'm still studying
• 19:28
  the sport. I'm still studying sports and
• 19:30
  learning. I just realized to go back and
• 19:32
  finish this thing. It's ridiculous to have all
• 19:35
  these hours and not have completed a degree.
• 19:37
  So, finally, I did that. But so, how did you get into?
• 19:41
  You said, coach, I love that. That might be the quote of the
• 19:44
  whole episode. Right there coaching got in the
• 19:47
  way, love that. What was your first year at
• 19:50
  8:30? Have state you're doing exercise
• 19:53
  science and then There had to be some period of dropping out to
• 19:56
  coach, or what, how'd that happen.
• 19:58
  So I had some roommates that were the soccer coaches that
• 20:01
  were talking high school, and good.
• 20:03
  And one of them had mentioned, the head coach, Doug kid and
• 20:07
  Earl Morgan was the assistant. He had mentioned, hey, they may
• 20:10
  have a need for some after-school weight training
• 20:14
  instruction or something. You might want to check that
• 20:16
  out. So I originally, that's what was
• 20:18
  my intention of going over to the high school.
• 20:20
  This is spring of 94 so 28 years ago.
• 20:24
  Over there with that idea. And not a lot was going on at
• 20:28
  that time, there weren't many people in the weight room.
• 20:31
  I don't even fact when I initially got there.
• 20:33
  I think was closed. One or two people came in there.
• 20:35
  They had a coach barking with them.
• 20:37
  They look like they had a real need while.
• 20:39
  I was there, they said, hey, the track team needs an assistant
• 20:42
  coach and they had just had their first meet the previous
• 20:46
  week. So this is in their second
• 20:48
  competition week. And I said, oh, I love track and
• 20:52
  field. What do they have a need for
• 20:53
  Sprint's hurdle. Al's just general just coaching
• 20:57
  in general jumps. All kinds of things like well
• 21:00
  yeah, I'd like to try that. I don't know why that didn't
• 21:02
  even register for me initially, like, why am I not going over
• 21:05
  there for that? Right?
• 21:06
  The strength training part is always been an interest for me
• 21:09
  as well, but that opened up and I was a volunteer the first
• 21:13
  year. And then I was a paid assistant
• 21:16
  head indoor track for the next 11 years and then assistant for
• 21:20
  the next 11 years after that, wow, that escalated quickly.
• 21:25
  Yeah, that and I said there was never my goal not initially, but
• 21:30
  it kind of all made sense is kind of like, maybe this is
• 21:33
  where I need to be. Yeah, I don't think I had as
• 21:36
  much direction as I. Maybe should have had it at that
• 21:40
  point, but I think I found my direction pretty quickly as like
• 21:43
  this, this may be kind of my calling, I don't know.
• 21:46
  When you said it makes sense, it's so funny.
• 21:48
  I got this picture of a puzzle and there's one piece left.
• 21:53
  And, you know, when you slide that last piece, peace in like
• 21:55
  all the outlines just disappear and it becomes one picture like
• 21:59
  that. When you said it all makes sense
• 22:01
  is like, oh yeah, that was, you know, he's been doing all these
• 22:03
  things. And here's the last little piece
• 22:04
  of advice to give him Direction. Yeah, it's like, you're looking
• 22:07
  for your car keys in every place, but your pockets.
• 22:10
  So, it's my keys have to be over here, or over here or in my
• 22:14
  bags, like, or they could be right where I put them, which is
• 22:18
  my bhagat, it's easy to say that once everything kind of comes
• 22:22
  together, but we're on it just made sense.
• 22:25
  Do you remember that first? Let's say a week or so that you
• 22:28
  went over to the track team to help you remember like was there
• 22:31
  an aha moment of like oh yeah this is it like a just a snap
• 22:35
  like man I love working with these kids and they're not that
• 22:38
  much younger than you to be real Frank at this point or was there
• 22:42
  like oh man, the hurdles died. I've never done hurdles this
• 22:45
  this puzzle pieces. I like this challenge of trying
• 22:49
  to figure out what there's something in there that first
• 22:50
  week or so. That was just like the hook.
• 22:53
  Yeah, I would say. As soon as you feel is a coach
• 22:56
  Ray able to beat bring some contribution for the positive
• 22:59
  that you're actually doing something is beneficial and they
• 23:02
  can almost sometimes immediately get feedback and realize it.
• 23:05
  Sometimes not, sometimes it takes time for those things to
• 23:09
  sort of, I guess, germinate, would you say?
• 23:12
  But I remember, we had actually had a 25th anniversary of our
• 23:16
  1997 state championship team entered, the Watauga High School
• 23:20
  Hall of Fame. This is about three weeks ago
• 23:22
  and I are talking to Talking to one of the young ladies on our
• 23:28
  team, on our relay team, in our state championship team.
• 23:31
  And I said, I remember having a conversation with you.
• 23:33
  People always kind of note that I have this strange memory for,
• 23:37
  I details and the dates and the temperature.
• 23:39
  It just, it's weird. It's not anything that benefits.
• 23:42
  Anybody? It's just it's just there.
• 23:44
  So, I recall her saying, I said, well, how are you?
• 23:49
  What do you feel about your first meet?
• 23:51
  And she said I was so sore in my upper body.
• 23:54
  As it will clearly you need to promote some some degree
• 23:58
  relaxation. So we need to work on just have
• 24:02
  you be powerful but be more relaxed and everything you do.
• 24:05
  So you shouldn't feel that much tension in your upper body and
• 24:09
  that was working on that and she almost immediately felt the
• 24:13
  difference. I feel like this, like okay
• 24:17
  maybe this is for me hurdles I'd study hurdles but not to the
• 24:22
  degree, maybe the Sprint's but over time.
• 24:24
  Like, the additional challenge that hurling requires not only
• 24:27
  of the athlete, but of the coach.
• 24:31
  And I think the two works really well together.
• 24:33
  Some people think yes, hurling and sprinting are the two are
• 24:36
  two different things, and there's definitely different
• 24:38
  aspects to it, but they're not. So, so different, but yeah,
• 24:43
  feeling like you're immediately contributing to someone's
• 24:45
  success is pretty important. I think for a coach.
• 24:49
  Yeah, I hear that a lot about that.
• 24:51
  Instant feedback that, you know, when, if you go into To you
• 24:55
  mentioned Banks and you're going to banking are counting you know
• 24:58
  you do stuff but you don't see the result for a quarter later
• 25:03
  or it right. You know a year later would
• 25:05
  coaching you can come in and with a kid make, you know, one
• 25:10
  q1 change and there's an immediate change in their
• 25:14
  performance because there's so much to change, even when even
• 25:17
  one little thing can, you know, add up to a lot of big things
• 25:20
  and so I hear that instant feedback of like, oh man, like I
• 25:23
  did something. Something got better and that
• 25:26
  made me feel good. Like I gave value to someone.
• 25:29
  That's what it kind of sounds like.
• 25:30
  Especially that example of that young lady.
• 25:32
  It's like hey you need to relax shoulders, that'll help you so
• 25:35
  you don't get so tense. She did that was like, oh wait
• 25:37
  for that. Feels a lot better.
• 25:38
  I feel faster. Just from that alone.
• 25:39
  We need to talk about training. Just just that and her name.
• 25:43
  She says we're about driving named Gary story.
• 25:45
  GA Rie story. She's an athletic trainer sort
• 25:49
  of in Asheboro near Greensboro that area but and it Creates
• 25:55
  good things on both sides. It gives the coach confidence
• 25:58
  that what they're saying is actually helping to and creates
• 26:01
  the buy-in for the athlete. Hey, coach told me this and I
• 26:05
  got this, I'm going to look into the whole of everything they're
• 26:08
  saying and I'm going to maybe be more coachable, not to say that
• 26:12
  she wasn't or that somebody else wasn't right?
• 26:15
  But it makes it more likely. You're going to be receptive to
• 26:18
  Future cues that somebody might give you so that year was a
• 26:23
  volunteer coach. The You're you're an assistant
• 26:25
  coach or a stipend coach somewhere around there.
• 26:29
  You had to have like officially dropped out of school, right?
• 26:32
  Yeah, round 94 around around 95 or so, I guess.
• 26:39
  And I just, I ended up working. I was an I did I delivered
• 26:42
  office supplies that was largely what I was doing and later on
• 26:50
  went back to Community College. Got an A there then went back to
• 26:54
  happen, eventually finish it all but yeah it took a number of
• 26:57
  years off and I kind of just even though it's track and field
• 27:01
  and its indoor November track is over and met except for unless
• 27:07
  you had some people going to Nationals and we usually did,
• 27:10
  sometimes it was our distance kids which I didn't coach much.
• 27:15
  We have some great distance coaches at Watauga but so you
• 27:21
  could go into June, it could go into June.
• 27:23
  If you had good enough people to go to Junior Nationals, we have
• 27:26
  some as well. Well, I'm curious with the
• 27:29
  support mom gave with reading. So it sound like In might have
• 27:32
  been important to her. How did had the family take
• 27:35
  this? Hey, I'm going to put a pot.
• 27:37
  Well, you didn't know necessarily was a pause at that
• 27:39
  point but you know, hey, I'm going to stop going to school in
• 27:42
  delivery office supplies so that I can coach at Watauga right.
• 27:48
  There were still supportive. I mean they were just very
• 27:51
  encouraging of like you need to keep an eye on going back, keep
• 27:55
  that in the back of your head. You know, this is good like you
• 27:59
  kind of finding something you're interested in.
• 28:02
  But same time keep in the back of your head that you want to
• 28:06
  finish this out and then they didn't really push it or
• 28:08
  anything, but eventually I just kind of got tired of having a
• 28:12
  lot of hours and not not a piece of paper to go behind it.
• 28:16
  So well, shout out to them because you know, it's weird in
• 28:20
  today's world, you know, we kids go to college at 18 and you know
• 28:23
  graduated 22 and we expect them to like have their whole life
• 28:27
  figured out. Out at 22.
• 28:28
  Like like there's so much burden on kids and I say, 22 year old
• 28:31
  kid, so much burden on them. Like you need to have
• 28:34
  everything. Figured out at 22, you got a
• 28:36
  degree now, go do your career and it's like 22 their brains
• 28:39
  aren't even fully formed. I didn't know.
• 28:42
  Yeah, I'm coach until I was 30. I got so I didn't get this
• 28:44
  career until I was 30 31. I mean, it's just, it's odd how
• 28:48
  we pressure them into this at such a young age.
• 28:51
  And so I love that they were supportive like, okay, all
• 28:53
  right, we're gonna support you just, you know, keep it in mind,
• 28:55
  you might want to go back to school, but there Not like, you
• 28:58
  know, hey don't show up for Christmas this year because your
• 29:01
  embarrassment to the family, you that's happened, right?
• 29:03
  You've been excommunicated your your you Napoleon or out of
• 29:07
  here? Yeah.
• 29:09
  That's right. You know?
• 29:11
  It's happened? Yeah, it definitely adds a
• 29:13
  banana so talk to us about. You said, 11 years as the
• 29:16
  assistant correct at Watauga, I was 12 years is just 11 years is
• 29:21
  the head end or coach. So talk to us about the 12 years
• 29:24
  as an assistant. What did you do for development?
• 29:27
  I assume you will not assume. We have to know just based on
• 29:32
  your high school and middle school of reading.
• 29:33
  Like you weren't just going to be the track coach.
• 29:36
  You were in 94 and 2004 you were going to improve.
• 29:40
  What did you do? Along the way to kind of get
• 29:41
  better as a coach? I did get into some of the
• 29:45
  coaching education. I took level 1 in 96 and I took
• 29:53
  the club coach for USA weightlifting.
• 29:55
  Also in 97 and I just did a lots of coaching education along the
• 29:59
  way and I feel like since I did, I'm one of the few people, I'm
• 30:05
  the only person on our staff who doesn't have college competition
• 30:10
  experience. I didn't compete in college just
• 30:12
  High School. I always felt like I needed to
• 30:16
  do more. They have their experience and
• 30:19
  they're going to do their continued college or their
• 30:22
  coaching education. I feel like I had to do more in
• 30:26
  terms of coaching education. Because I didn't have that
• 30:28
  experience. So I feel like I needed to kind
• 30:31
  of give myself some value in places, maybe other places
• 30:36
  people. One of the things you see with a
• 30:39
  lot of Collegiate athletes, who get into coaching, is sometimes
• 30:42
  they rely on their own experience, a little too much.
• 30:46
  And initially, you don't have anything else to go by, but over
• 30:49
  time your own experience, should be worth something to where you
• 30:52
  make changes to your program adjustments to program.
• 30:56
  Whether you know, it's through. She had occasion formally or
• 30:59
  because you're reading this book and this book and this book and
• 31:02
  this article, but I always felt like I needed to know more from
• 31:06
  the coaching. Education side, the coaching
• 31:08
  education, curriculum, the USA weightlifting do usatf through
• 31:13
  the usdf Triple C. A I needed to do more on that to
• 31:18
  be competitive to give my athletes.
• 31:23
  You know, the benefit of that that type of education.
• 31:26
  Let's put a pin in that. That's that's enough.
• 31:27
  Portent topic. Let's come back to that real
• 31:29
  quick. I want to go take one step back
• 31:31
  here. You talked about level 1 back in
• 31:32
  96, I took my level 1 in like 98.
• 31:35
  This was a really fun time level 1.
• 31:37
  Do you remember? Where and who your teachers and
• 31:40
  your versus elkanah? It was a great craft and Larry
• 31:46
  judge for the main coaches it was January of 96, man.
• 31:53
  We it's so funny so I think it was it was when I was at Roy.
• 31:57
  That was 98 99 and 2000 season. So I want to say it was 99.
• 32:01
  I don't think I did in my first year.
• 32:02
  So 99 was My Level 1 and also in South Carolina at USC?
• 32:06
  Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, I had came over, I don't
• 32:11
  think it was Larry or Greg. It was the Lori.
• 32:14
  She was the head coach at Vanderbilt.
• 32:16
  Oh yes, Shepherd. Yes, Lori Shepherd.
• 32:19
  So she was the Sprints and her, you know, forlorn Seagrave.
• 32:22
  He also did Sprints. He was phenomenal.
• 32:26
  I mean, just phenomenal. Andrew Alden in South Carolina.
• 32:30
  Yep, right. Right and came over throws.
• 32:32
  It may be you know I wouldn't even Larry because I would
• 32:34
  remember because Larry I said I went in Glen Maca to use to do a
• 32:38
  lot of things course he was a Clemson but right about 30 level
• 32:46
  ones in the first part of my career here at gil.
• 32:49
  Several of them would Larry and Larry is just phenomenal I mean
• 32:53
  what a what a so my level 2 throws with him.
• 32:56
  Oh yeah what a Your would a, like I've seen him take an
• 32:59
  entire class, 30, 40, 50 coaches, you know who all have
• 33:03
  their own background pole vault Sprint's distance and at the end
• 33:07
  of the throws and specifically the hammer it's like oh the I
• 33:10
  feel like these guys could all could go in the ring and at
• 33:12
  least throw the hammer it some form of like he's so good at the
• 33:15
  DIY, you know, are not DIY but learn by doing like getting up
• 33:20
  turning and it's just like I mean it's phenomenal.
• 33:24
  He is he was put on this Earth to be a teacher.
• 33:26
  Yes. Does it phenomenally?
• 33:28
  That's so cool. You it South Carolina.
• 33:31
  I was just curious because I that time frame the late 90s is
• 33:34
  when I started getting the coach education.
• 33:35
  So I just remembered some just great, great teachers and then
• 33:38
  went on to become a teacher. Another thing that's kind of
• 33:41
  coming out here all along the way, you mentioned it several
• 33:44
  times weightlifting, seems to be important to you and not just
• 33:48
  weight lifting like, oh I believe, our athletes should
• 33:51
  lift weights, but like learning the the strength, and I don't
• 33:55
  even have the strength conditioning aspect.
• 33:56
  Yeah, let's drink to a spa. Back in the day, you were
• 33:58
  reading in a CA as a high schooler, for crying out loud.
• 34:02
  You taken different coaching education inside of that.
• 34:04
  Where did that to tell me more about that aspect for you?
• 34:07
  That's a little unique in some circles.
• 34:10
  I remember in the late 70s, early 80s, really getting an
• 34:14
  interest in the sport of weightlifting and then
• 34:17
  eventually that evolved into and I still have that interest but
• 34:20
  evolved into or how our athletes using those and even just
• 34:25
  strength lifts to Of performance and, and then reading in a CA
• 34:31
  journals and seeing like periodization roundtables with
• 34:34
  dr. Stone and dr.
• 34:35
  O'Brien who ended up being to my professors of that.
• 34:39
  Who I definitely considered. Also, why I'm why I'm here, I
• 34:45
  thought, oh, these professors are at apps that was the state.
• 34:49
  Probably makes sense for me to go there.
• 34:51
  That's pretty cool. I don't remember the timeline of
• 34:53
  when that came that may have been after the fact, but Just
• 34:57
  knowing that that's important. Is it still for a grower?
• 35:02
  We know it's probably extremely important for a sprinter jump or
• 35:05
  hurdle though to me. It's still very very important
• 35:08
  but I also have to recognize that it is supplementary to the
• 35:12
  main to the sport training which is why I don't generally like
• 35:15
  people lifting before unless there's a big gap but that's
• 35:19
  definitely been an area that I've studied for many years and
• 35:23
  my partner's are definitely evolved over time.
• 35:26
  Well, that's what's interesting to me is, you know, at an early
• 35:29
  age, learn having a passion for strength and Street training
• 35:34
  more, typically, would lead you to be a strength and
• 35:37
  conditioning coach. Well, no, no, not even track.
• 35:39
  No, no not track. Going towards strength
• 35:41
  conditioning as a profession or football as a profession, or
• 35:46
  bodybuilding. And in today's world, we'd say,
• 35:48
  CrossFit, things like that. So, it's interesting that you it
• 35:52
  feels like you connected. The dots between strength
• 35:55
  conditioning or Again, I don't want to do the conditioning
• 35:57
  part, the strength training part in how it affects performance of
• 36:01
  an athlete, not just, hey, how do I make someone stronger and
• 36:04
  look better? How does that actually transfer
• 36:06
  to them being a better Sprinter or throw a jumper?
• 36:09
  Yeah, those are those became important early on and also to
• 36:13
  realize that if you're going to use, I don't know.
• 36:16
  I know we don't get too technical but if you can utilize
• 36:20
  which I do phase potentiation or block periodization, if you're
• 36:25
  going to use it, You can't lift heavy, all those weeks there and
• 36:30
  I know how heavy is a relative term, but if you are trying to
• 36:34
  be successful in your training, you need to challenge the body
• 36:37
  of the individual, but you can't do it every day or their main
• 36:42
  sport training is going to suffer.
• 36:43
  So, knowing sort of, when to pick your battles and adjust
• 36:47
  your training to make the whole of the program better to make
• 36:51
  your program, truly holistic. And one that really works well
• 36:55
  together, that's compatible. Able, you know, one thing damp
• 36:58
  has always talking about is studying other people's programs
• 37:02
  finding come compatible, or excuse me, our commonalities,
• 37:06
  another term Boo likes to talk about, huh?
• 37:10
  But finding commonalities is successful programs.
• 37:13
  You find 15 programs while them were doing this thing.
• 37:17
  You probably think about doing that thing.
• 37:19
  You need to know context, you need to know how to use it.
• 37:22
  Why do you use it when to use it?
• 37:24
  But if you don't understand context, I feel like that you
• 37:29
  maybe just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what
• 37:31
  sticks? But Just kind of finding out the
• 37:37
  blender and that's where the art of what we do comes into play.
• 37:40
  Like I love the scientific aspects and what each each of
• 37:43
  those things do for you or knowing scientific sort of
• 37:46
  underpinnings on all the things that we do.
• 37:49
  But I also like the art of coming up with your own program
• 37:53
  and being able to do things a little not different, just to be
• 37:56
  different. Not the novel stimulus idea,
• 37:58
  sometimes that's useful, but doing something because you
• 38:01
  maybe through your own experience feel like you've
• 38:03
  Found a little different way to do it, but you're still using
• 38:08
  the a lot of the same principles that the people that came before
• 38:11
  you sort of guided you into. And those I said I never have a
• 38:16
  problem. Crediting people that I know
• 38:19
  have influenced me. Like I said that's a big part of
• 38:22
  why I've had any success that I may have had.
• 38:25
  I love that you brought a blue and an path.
• 38:27
  You know. Boo was a guest on the podcast
• 38:30
  about a year ago and is easily our number.
• 38:33
  Most listened-to pot in rightfully.
• 38:36
  So in fact, if you're listening, you haven't listened to booze
• 38:40
  podcast in the app that you're using.
• 38:42
  Now just search in the Gill podcast, Boo schexnayder and
• 38:46
  you've got to listen to me. It's just, it's me.
• 38:47
  It should be mandatory for all coaches.
• 38:49
  Not only because of his background is phenomenal, but we
• 38:53
  really got into some deep conversations about coaching and
• 38:56
  coaching a as a profession. And the professionalism of
• 38:58
  coaching, he's he was just very open and forthright, what was
• 39:02
  awesome. One of the things.
• 39:03
  That I learned about during that interview with boo, is that his
• 39:07
  mentor was Dan path? I thought they kind of for some
• 39:11
  reason in my head I had them coming up in the ranks together,
• 39:14
  so it was kind of eye-opening for me.
• 39:16
  That Dan was actually his mentor and so, a little known secret
• 39:20
  Joel Dan will be our kickoff for season four.
• 39:24
  So January 2nd, I think is the first Monday of 2023 that'll be
• 39:28
  season for, for us. He's our guest for that.
• 39:31
  So it'll be interesting to see. I love that.
• 39:34
  You used the word commonalities from him because it'll be
• 39:36
  interesting, the commonalities between his career and Boo and
• 39:39
  how you know, the the mentorship of boo because you know I'm a
• 39:43
  Buddhist I polat's. Well, career has changed.
• 39:45
  I would consider myself as one. Yeah.
• 39:47
  Well yeah, then we are in a club of exclusivity that's fairly
• 39:51
  large in our Market. Thank goodness because that's
• 39:53
  his teaching is amazing. So, okay, look, let's talk about
• 39:57
  something. I said, put a pin into it.
• 39:59
  You you you made yourself vulnerable there and I'd like to
• 40:02
  explore that a bit more if you If you would be okay with that,
• 40:05
  you mentioned not havin Collegiate competition
• 40:08
  experience, same boat. By the way, I did not compete in
• 40:11
  college and you it's it felt like you were describing like
• 40:14
  you felt like you had to overcompensate for that because
• 40:19
  you didn't have that. Tell me more about that.
• 40:21
  As you know, many many coaches, you've worked with many coaches.
• 40:26
  Do you think that actually bore out?
• 40:27
  And what I mean is I'm so glad you delved into coaching,
• 40:30
  education clink. Anybody should whether they were
• 40:32
  an All-American or yes or not? All, do you think that actually
• 40:36
  bore out like, like people who have that experience, do have a
• 40:39
  little, the college competition experience, do have a little
• 40:42
  something extra that others of us, like you.
• 40:45
  And I have to overcome or was that maybe just a blown out,
• 40:48
  thought from think initially. Yes.
• 40:50
  But it is, whether that actually becomes an issue for you as a
• 40:54
  coach competing against those coaches going forward is kind of
• 40:58
  up to us to we can fix that or we can we can find our own path
• 41:03
  like like I think it's a little dangerous for a college athlete
• 41:08
  to just do what they were. And they guess in the beginning
• 41:11
  you don't know any better. Do you still have chances after
• 41:14
  that to learn from other coaches and one thing I've noticed and I
• 41:17
  could be completely wrong on. This is when I've gone to a lot
• 41:20
  of coaching education, you don't see a lot of power five
• 41:23
  assistants there, and I don't know if that's because those
• 41:26
  coach. I don't, I'm not trying to hope.
• 41:28
  I'm not offending anybody, but you just, you just don't.
• 41:31
  And I've often wondered if there, Discouraged from going to
• 41:35
  those because well, you just need to do our program and our
• 41:38
  program, but but I feel like it's healthy for people to know
• 41:41
  other programs and then you can make a decision on.
• 41:44
  You know, this is not a bad idea.
• 41:46
  I don't want to just completely adopt a hundred percent of what
• 41:50
  this program is doing, but these one or two things could make a
• 41:54
  difference, could make some improvement in our program and I
• 41:57
  like what boo is always said about the importance of coaching
• 42:01
  education in a sense that when you work with a other coaches
• 42:04
  and I'm kind of getting a little bit off track.
• 42:06
  Now we're going to work with other coaches.
• 42:08
  You reach many more people because you're reaching their
• 42:11
  athletes by extension. So you're going to reach if you
• 42:15
  have sound ideas and if your if your ideas are valid, then
• 42:20
  you're probably going to reach a lot more people.
• 42:22
  You're going to influence a lot more people.
• 42:23
  You're going to hopefully possibly affect many more people
• 42:27
  because you're reaching more athletes through the coaches.
• 42:31
  Hmm likes, I went a bit off track.
• 42:33
  No, no. Actually, that's, you know, I
• 42:35
  almost called the podcast, the The Gila physics tangent of
• 42:38
  podcast because I'm a tangent person.
• 42:40
  So I actually love the way you described how boo described
• 42:43
  that, because that's how I describe your role as a coach.
• 42:47
  And what I mean by that is, you know, whether you coach to kids
• 42:50
  or 200 kids to me, that doesn't matter because you're positive
• 42:55
  influence over young people is exponential.
• 42:57
  So if you coach two kids, they go on to become moms dads,
• 43:01
  doctors business owners there. The things that you and part
• 43:05
  into them are they're going to impart into their kids, into
• 43:08
  their team members, maybe they become a coach, which means your
• 43:11
  influence is now expanded out there.
• 43:14
  So I like I don't give the, we just had someone on the podcast
• 43:18
  who had 200 kids as a high school coach, I was like, holy
• 43:21
  cow for small. That's amazing.
• 43:22
  How did you even Corral that many high schoolers?
• 43:25
  But I'm like, oh, you know, I've also had a person coach on the
• 43:28
  podcast that coached team of 10 to start out with and I like
• 43:31
  those two people are equal to me, I understand the numbers are
• 43:33
  Really different. But they still have such a large
• 43:37
  influence over Society because of the positive influence, they
• 43:40
  make over high schoolers a 14 to 18 year olds.
• 43:44
  So I love that his the way that you described that of like the
• 43:47
  reverse of like oh the more coaches, you surround yourselves
• 43:50
  with that have positive ways of coaching and you learn from
• 43:53
  them. What you're actually getting the
• 43:54
  benefit of how they've experimented with their kids and
• 43:57
  their athletes like you're getting more of that that's so I
• 43:59
  love that that's kind of a very symbiotic way of thinking about
• 44:03
  the to Things merging together there, but she is successful.
• 44:07
  Well, experienced coach, like Abu like a Dan.
• 44:10
  You're also able to benefit by not making the mistakes that
• 44:15
  they may have made along the way because they're telling you, not
• 44:17
  necessarily that this is the only way.
• 44:19
  But this is given these five choices.
• 44:23
  I would probably prefer to go these two directions or one of
• 44:26
  these two directions. So then you can kind of avoid
• 44:29
  maybe making some of the same mistake, you're still going to
• 44:31
  make mistakes. Everyone is But you can still be
• 44:36
  the beneficiary of their experiences and their trial by
• 44:39
  fire their trial and error. I guess I should say and just,
• 44:47
  again, making it just making it a better situation for your
• 44:51
  student athletes. Just because, you know, they
• 44:53
  again, those coaches that made mistakes and but they're telling
• 44:56
  me don't do this or it's sometimes.
• 45:00
  I don't even tell you don't do that.
• 45:01
  It's like maybe this isn't the best way.
• 45:04
  But you can experiment a little bit if you want but in general,
• 45:07
  I would recommend this or something like that.
• 45:10
  I did recently, I saw on Twitter, it said, smart people
• 45:14
  learn from their mistakes, really smart people.
• 45:17
  Learn from the mistakes of others.
• 45:18
  It's right. It's the you seen some of us
• 45:20
  make mistakes. Learn from that.
• 45:21
  Don't do that, right? I don't think that's a good
• 45:24
  idea. I'm not going to try to arrange.
• 45:26
  I also like how you crack yourself there.
• 45:28
  You know, the coaches like, Dan and boo, they won't say, hey,
• 45:30
  don't do this unless it's a safety thing.
• 45:32
  They're more apt to say like, hey, I tried this.
• 45:35
  Here's how it didn't work for me but you got to make your own to
• 45:38
  sit like it may be different for you.
• 45:39
  But I like it because I when you said that I was like, oh yeah I
• 45:42
  don't know. Those guys.
• 45:42
  Actually tell you don't do this. Now let's it's a gross mistake.
• 45:46
  They're more likely to say hey I tried this didn't work out.
• 45:49
  Maybe you don't want to do it, I don't know.
• 45:50
  But it's on you. And I guess if you're ever
• 45:52
  giving some type of a clinic you can tell people, I'm not telling
• 45:57
  you you need to do this or you had to do this.
• 45:59
  I can just tell you for me, this is the best way I around.
• 46:03
  The most effective way I found. Yeah, it's interesting.
• 46:06
  The topic of, you know, not only did you have college experience
• 46:10
  and got into coaching but how great where you in regards to
• 46:14
  that college experience? So we're you an All-American or
• 46:17
  a School record, holder, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:20
  I once had a person tell me that they weren't.
• 46:23
  They weren't a track coach or another sport coach but they
• 46:25
  did. They have Teflon in college and
• 46:28
  a small school setting, it was decent not, you know, this
• 46:32
  person didn't score 5,000 points or anything.
• 46:34
  You know, if you finish heptathlon, by the way, your
• 46:36
  athletic. So see this person was athletic,
• 46:39
  right? And she sore, I mean to my face,
• 46:43
  she was like, if I coach track, I'd be better at it than you and
• 46:45
  I was like, I'm pretty good and she's like, yeah, but you didn't
• 46:49
  do it because you didn't hurdle in college, you didn't hide jump
• 46:52
  in college. Just be the very fact that I did
• 46:56
  it. I'd be better.
• 46:57
  And I like into your point about like a little bit of, like,
• 47:00
  maybe she's right. I don't know, say, I didn't
• 47:02
  beginning since I didn't do. It maybe she's right, there was
• 47:05
  a little bit of like that impostor syndrome and so and I
• 47:08
  don't know if that, that might have been like a kind of a kind
• 47:11
  of it on psychology session here, Joel may be that because I
• 47:15
  dug into coaching, Ed like you, I know, I don't know, I don't
• 47:18
  know. I don't, I would not have
• 47:19
  verbalize it saying, hey, because I didn't do college
• 47:21
  coaching, it was partly of my background of like, I just love
• 47:26
  to learn and read so, okay, I'm intractable okay, the way you
• 47:29
  read and learn and track as you go to coaching clinics and
• 47:32
  coaching education and stuff. But I remember having Angelo
• 47:37
  Taylor, he was in one of the level ones that I taught and I
• 47:40
  was doing this Prince and hurdle.
• 47:40
  So I love, you know, I like to have a little fun.
• 47:42
  So Angela Taylor, who all respect sat in the front, row of
• 47:45
  the class, and I was like, hey, here's what's awesome is, like,
• 47:48
  I'm going to teach you everything you've ever known
• 47:50
  about her scenarios Olympic medal co-champions, but he was
• 47:54
  there and to his credit. When the distance the person was
• 47:59
  up, he was up there taking notes.
• 48:01
  When I was doing hurdles, he was up there taking And um, it was
• 48:04
  really respectful and he could have been the guy like I'm a
• 48:07
  multiple time gold medalist percent and what am I going to
• 48:10
  say? It's like, no Angelo.
• 48:13
  You need to learn, you know. So I do wonder, I think to your
• 48:18
  point there is some benefit, right?
• 48:19
  Maybe there's some benefit of having experienced it and done
• 48:23
  it, right? But it's not the be-all end-all
• 48:25
  me. There's plenty of people who
• 48:27
  have either not done the event at all, or we're not good at the
• 48:30
  event who became amazing teachers and coaches.
• 48:33
  It's right again, I think it goes back to what we were
• 48:36
  discussing earlier. It's what you do with it is what
• 48:39
  you if you if your first year coaching versus a first-year
• 48:42
  coach who has college experience competition experience, I would
• 48:46
  say they probably had the benefit but five years from now
• 48:49
  or two years or even two years from that point doesn't need to
• 48:52
  be the case. We control that we control, what
• 48:55
  we read, we, they always talk about the success.
• 48:58
  You achieve is determined by the books.
• 49:00
  You read the people, you meet people.
• 49:02
  You associate with So we have a choice in in what it is,
• 49:08
  directing our own education. So five years from then, if the
• 49:11
  did that person who competed in college is better than you, are
• 49:16
  they better than you just because they did what they did
• 49:18
  or they actually out pursue you in the educational field which
• 49:22
  all credit to them, but at least we have a chance to make changes
• 49:27
  Purcell. We can't go back and hey I want
• 49:29
  to be I want to turn the time the clock back and I'm going to
• 49:31
  be a college athlete. You know, not Right?
• 49:34
  But all, but what is possible? It's like, all right, how do I
• 49:38
  teach these things better? And at least in one sense, it
• 49:41
  can become beneficial. Even if you had a great college
• 49:43
  coach, you're generally going to be beneficial of that as you
• 49:48
  become a coach but the same time if you think that's the only way
• 49:52
  you're also mistaken, right? Yeah.
• 49:55
  Last time I checked, I don't believe Mike Holloway was a All
• 49:58
  American Collegiate hurdler and he's pretty good hurdles coach.
• 50:01
  Yeah. Yeah he's pretty you know I
• 50:05
  guess if you're into gold medalist and well, yeah, I like
• 50:14
  that. I like that discussion and I
• 50:16
  think it really kind of goes into both directions, right?
• 50:19
  You could have been a great athlete and you can become a
• 50:22
  great coach and you could sit on your laurels and not become a
• 50:24
  great coach and vice versa. You could never have done
• 50:27
  College, athletics, college, track and field.
• 50:30
  And you could be a bad coach because you sit around and don't
• 50:33
  do nothing or Probably. But in your place you put people
• 50:35
  around you you learn you read and you become a pretty good
• 50:38
  coach. I remember seeing one of the top
• 50:40
  kicker coaches in the NFL was an individual who was paralyzed was
• 50:44
  in a wheelchair and I was like, man, like that dude don't kick,
• 50:48
  but he's pretty good. So, wait a minute, that means I
• 50:52
  don't have to Vault it in Kyle. I don't default it at.
• 50:53
  All right? I learn.
• 50:55
  I can be a teacher here so it's pretty pretty interesting that
• 50:59
  there's a saying about and as you've heard different numbers
• 51:02
  used for the same example, You can either have 20 years of good
• 51:07
  experience where you're evolving is a coach you're learning or
• 51:10
  you can have one year or bad experience times 20 and you have
• 51:12
  an evolved you haven't gone anywhere.
• 51:15
  And you just said, well, I've been coaching for 20 years so
• 51:17
  then you're relying on just the number of years you coach.
• 51:20
  But you may not have, you might be doing the same things.
• 51:23
  You did hear one. And if you are doing same things
• 51:26
  in year, one and year 20, the exact same things.
• 51:29
  What is your own experience worth?
• 51:31
  Hmm, if you learned anything from Ian, Bears.
• 51:34
  Are you just said, are you just dead set on doing this way?
• 51:37
  Because I did it a lot way. And by a high school coach to,
• 51:41
  to this way, right? Therefore, it's perfect, like,
• 51:44
  that's that can't be the way I've said this before, because
• 51:47
  you mentioned, that's how my high school coach did it, you
• 51:49
  know, when you first get into coaching, no matter what level
• 51:51
  maybe you are, whether you're an All-American division, want or
• 51:54
  you only did High School, it doesn't matter.
• 51:56
  The only thing we know is how we were coached, right?
• 51:59
  So that's typically how we coach until we read and learn and talk
• 52:02
  with others and expand, right? That's why I think I'm so
• 52:05
  excited for like ten years from now for where Athletics, track
• 52:08
  and field will be collegiately and nationally because it's
• 52:11
  Bonkers right now. I mean you're living it and
• 52:14
  we're going to get into you being here to Asheville, you
• 52:16
  know what it takes to make regionals.
• 52:17
  You know it takes to make Nationals, you know, it takes to
• 52:20
  make finals. It's crazy.
• 52:22
  All The Vision by the way Division 1, division 2 division.
• 52:24
  Three, it's not. So in obviously.
• 52:26
  Look at what just happened to World Champs with the Foreigner.
• 52:28
  Hurdles and 800, it's crazy. What kids are doing today,
• 52:32
  right? But I Because of the coaching
• 52:34
  education that you and I kind of grew up in through the late 90s,
• 52:37
  and through 2010-2015. I think kids are being coached
• 52:41
  better today by better-educated coaches, and those kids are the
• 52:44
  future coaches. So, when they get into coaching,
• 52:47
  and they fall back to how they were coached, well, it's going
• 52:50
  to be a much higher level than guys like me.
• 52:51
  And you were, you know, we had guys that were like, either, you
• 52:54
  know, I had a pile of my head high school coach.
• 52:56
  He was a thrower from the greatest University in the
• 52:58
  world, Troy State University, but you know what he's doing
• 53:00
  distances are on the track. And so, We didn't do it.
• 53:04
  I mean, we literally did our events every day and went home.
• 53:06
  That's literally what we did for practice every day.
• 53:08
  I mean, the first event was 4x8, we ran a 4 by 8 then the guys
• 53:12
  went and did the hundreds practice every day.
• 53:15
  Joel, I'm not. That's pretty event-specific,
• 53:19
  it's almost a little bit. That's a great way of thinking
• 53:23
  about it. So yeah, we ran the meat and
• 53:26
  that's how I got into hurdles because I was running.
• 53:28
  When I first started doing four by eight eight mile, two mile
• 53:32
  four by four Every day in the order of the meat, right?
• 53:36
  The only rest I got was, you know, if they were lining up for
• 53:38
  the 100 or 110 hurdles or whatever, right?
• 53:41
  So I kept watching, one day I got a little smart.
• 53:43
  I was like, hey, man, the sprinters that do just ran 100
• 53:45
  or 200 or four by one. They didn't do the 4 by 4 is all
• 53:48
  the 100-meter guys that did that I was like, that's all they did.
• 53:52
  Hmm. I wonder if I could trade my
• 53:54
  two-mile for the hurdles. So I told Coach, can I try out
• 53:58
  for the hurdles and luck. Luckily, I'm so glad he did but
• 54:02
  I was, I mean, Beyond terrible. But so he was a good decent
• 54:07
  throws coach though and I love him to death, but I also have a
• 54:09
  lot of empathy for those guys and gals too, because this was
• 54:14
  an Alabama, where every coach was the football coach.
• 54:18
  So my head track coach was, our defensive line coach, and tennis
• 54:21
  coach was offensive line, coach all stuff.
• 54:22
  And he also taught and it's like, I don't know that he had
• 54:25
  time to really think about other things to try to get better at
• 54:28
  track. He was trying to do his best
• 54:30
  honestly and I have all the respect and empathy for him.
• 54:33
  For that while. I certainly wish he would have
• 54:36
  did like you and got track and field news and Omni book and try
• 54:39
  to get better. It's like, man, I do have a
• 54:40
  family. I get, I get it coach, I get
• 54:43
  where you were man. So I have a lot of empathy for
• 54:45
  that, for that, for, that type of situation there.
• 54:48
  So. Okay, we're at 11 years, 11 ish
• 54:51
  years, as the assistant coach, you're doing level ones, any aha
• 54:58
  moments in regards to coaching. And what I mean by that is you
• 55:01
  seem to be a fairly well, rounded coach.
• 55:03
  Here. But any event specific group
• 55:06
  that you started kind of leaning, like, I want to learn
• 55:09
  more about this event or these types of events or were you
• 55:12
  still kind of kept that generalist attitude, which is,
• 55:15
  which is a good attitude? Yeah, I mean ended up having
• 55:18
  probably more success with sprinters hurdlers and jumpers.
• 55:22
  I work with rowers on occasion, as far as an automotive team.
• 55:29
  Pardons probably dictated by just how fortunate I was when I
• 55:32
  got to Watauga High. That I had to unbelievably
• 55:35
  talented, actually we have more some really good, some very
• 55:38
  talented people but I just thought, wow, this all you have
• 55:42
  to do this truck says pretty easy.
• 55:43
  And I didn't actually think this but I was as a kind of a joke
• 55:46
  like all you got to do is get really talented people and just
• 55:50
  tell him to run fast. And then you some you come to
• 55:53
  realize, hmm. Everybody that comes to your
• 55:55
  program isn't going to be like that.
• 55:57
  You were just lucky enough that when I started coaching they
• 55:59
  were freshmen and you're very very fortunate.
• 56:02
  Like say it was more. Or the two.
• 56:04
  But the Taylor twins in particular, were extremely
• 56:06
  talented. And tell us more about them.
• 56:09
  So, Lindsay end up being ranked number four in the 1997.
• 56:13
  And by trying to build a shed, a 5-11 and a half high jump, and
• 56:16
  Gary are fee, who is the longtime appstate?
• 56:18
  High jump coach, he was her primary coach, I work with her
• 56:21
  more weight room, hurdles at Meats because Gary wasn't
• 56:26
  necessary there. He was her primary Highjump
• 56:28
  coach and then Brenda end up being a really successful
• 56:31
  hurdler in in high school and then at Harvard, and then, is he
• 56:36
  wa? And then, wow, made it to the
• 56:38
  Olympics. In 2000.
• 56:40
  She was working with a coach in California, Ron Sheffield.
• 56:44
  I think his name's. Yeah, yeah.
• 56:45
  Runs you know, I've never met him but that's who she was
• 56:49
  working with during her Olympic year because she is living in
• 56:51
  California at the time. Yeah, Ryan is one of those guys.
• 56:54
  I remember being one of the first guys that I would read all
• 56:57
  of his articles and he was a big yawn, come hook hurdle Guru, you
• 57:01
  know, that was his, it was this thing still is I'm he's amazing
• 57:03
  last last. He was, that was UC San Diego, I
• 57:05
  believe his last place he was at, he had Rhonda, yeah, that's
• 57:09
  Sokka. What was, what was her name
• 57:11
  again? She went to Harvard Brenda
• 57:12
  Taylor, so Brenda was the cast? Excuse me, the captain of the
• 57:16
  Harvard tried car co-captain, Lindsay.
• 57:19
  Her twin sister was the captain of brown tried to deal twin
• 57:23
  sister Peggy Collins. Wow, really talented, really
• 57:27
  smart extremely hard workers. I mean, it's kind of like it's
• 57:32
  kind of hard to find. Sometimes your hardest workers,
• 57:34
  also your most talented people, or at least, there's other hard
• 57:38
  workers. I don't want to Yeah.
• 57:40
  So what other people did but sometimes the more talented
• 57:43
  people aren't necessarily the hardest workers, you know,
• 57:47
  because they've been able to get by on town.
• 57:49
  They that wasn't them though. They were very much, you know,
• 57:54
  very much about getting the most out of the themselves they could
• 57:58
  in some that was your like as you got into high school and
• 58:01
  those are your athlete. So you're like, oh this is to
• 58:04
  your point. This is easy.
• 58:05
  Holy crap. These guys are awesome.
• 58:07
  They're all going to be awesome from now on like this, right?
• 58:09
  And it will Target, you know, you're you have a pledge estate
• 58:11
  there but it's generally a rural high school.
• 58:14
  It's a for a high school which is the largest northcom, but it
• 58:16
  was about 1600 students. So we were on the small end of
• 58:19
  the biggest class, but we ended up winning three straight
• 58:24
  women's girls championships. And we want to indoor
• 58:27
  championship in 97 to so that the 97 in one that the indoor
• 58:30
  and the outdoor. And but yeah, extremely
• 58:34
  talented. I look back and I'm sure you
• 58:36
  probably did this as well things that I did with.
• 58:40
  There were some, there were some good aspects, I'm not going to
• 58:43
  completely obliterate what we did.
• 58:46
  But there's also some things like wow, what was that thinking
• 58:48
  about? When you look, you write a
• 58:49
  program and just the next year, you look back.
• 58:51
  What was I thinking there? And it's probably not that
• 58:54
  egregious compared to what it could be or maybe under someone
• 58:59
  else like this. Not a big deal but to you, it's
• 59:01
  a big deal. Like, I don't know what I was
• 59:04
  thinking there, but they didn't have a lot of those things but
• 59:08
  there were still some things, you Had a chance to do it again.
• 59:10
  Yeah. Could do it differently a little
• 59:12
  bit anyway, I tweeted it out. Someone someone had tweeted
• 59:15
  quote tweeted. Someone said something like you
• 59:17
  ever find yourself wanting to apologize to your first group of
• 59:20
  athletes, gender. Yeah.
• 59:23
  And so I quote tweet, I said, if you don't, are you really
• 59:25
  coaching like, if you don't look back, you know, if you've
• 59:28
  coached for any number of years, if you don't look back and go,
• 59:30
  you know, I should really try ever.
• 59:32
  If I ever see them, I need to say I'm sorry then are you, are
• 59:35
  you really progressing in learning what exactly goes back
• 59:37
  to the whole point of evolution of Are you evolving as a person
• 59:41
  of the coach? Or you just like, let me see.
• 59:44
  What do we do? 10 years ago?
• 59:45
  All right. That's the same day is today.
• 59:48
  Rinse and repeat plus. Here we go.
• 59:50
  Yeah recipe. Yeah, that's like you know I I
• 59:53
  would feel so guilty if I did that with an athlete like they
• 59:56
  may not know it's the same workout that was done ten years
• 59:59
  ago but I know right. Right.
• 1:00:01
  I can't let that go. So move, keep moving forward,
• 1:00:06
  here you become the head coach there at Watauga.
• 1:00:08
  How was that? Experience joy for indoor track.
• 1:00:11
  I was at Grandeur. Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  How was that experience compared to an assistant?
• 1:00:14
  You know, there's I know small wasn't a small school but I know
• 1:00:17
  it's high school and you're also working on the outside, but
• 1:00:19
  they're still responsibilities and the buck stops here when you
• 1:00:23
  get that head title, how was that experience transitioning to
• 1:00:26
  that part of coaching? It was a, it was a little bit.
• 1:00:28
  Of course, it's at the high school level.
• 1:00:30
  It's not religious level, so it's a little bit easier.
• 1:00:32
  Transition and I had some people helping me as well.
• 1:00:35
  Some good assistants But it wasn't that difficult.
• 1:00:40
  What I guess some people that are all focused on the coaching
• 1:00:44
  aspects. Sometimes when you're an
• 1:00:46
  assistant coach, you're just coaching when you get into those
• 1:00:49
  roles. Oh, I have to do meet in trees.
• 1:00:52
  I had to find Transportation, I have to get her some Meats.
• 1:00:55
  I have to arrange for lodging. Now, you got a little bit more
• 1:00:58
  to handle and it's not tremendous.
• 1:01:01
  Of course, when you get in the Collegiate setting, it changes
• 1:01:03
  you more. But I feel like that kind of
• 1:01:05
  helped me and here A little ahead.
• 1:01:08
  Here we have some great coaches that help distribute the load
• 1:01:12
  all over. So we have were able to handle
• 1:01:15
  that pretty well because I was doing all that.
• 1:01:17
  It was sort of like defeat the whole purpose.
• 1:01:19
  Why you got into coaching and first mistake?
• 1:01:21
  I understand administrative roles are going to change as
• 1:01:24
  you're moving up, but the same time you don't ever want to get
• 1:01:27
  away from coaching. That's the whole reason you got
• 1:01:29
  into it first, maybe but it it was a challenge but it wasn't
• 1:01:32
  too, too difficult. So, I coached all of two years
• 1:01:36
  of high school before Or my ego said I should be coaching
• 1:01:39
  College. As you're rolling through.
• 1:01:42
  This is there any thoughts of coaching College coming up?
• 1:01:45
  Yeah there was an actually Meg. Stone Meg, Richey Stone, dr.
• 1:01:49
  Stone's wife, she said I'm trying to think what year this
• 1:01:53
  was probably around 97 98. I went to watch 12 app stage
• 1:01:59
  practices and and I got to know Meg pretty well.
• 1:02:02
  She moved moved to Boone in 94 after she and Doc, got married
• 1:02:06
  and she said, you should be coaching a Collegiate setting
• 1:02:10
  and I thought about it a little bit, but when she said that I
• 1:02:12
  thought maybe, you know, I don't want to.
• 1:02:17
  I can respect Collegiate coaches, but I don't want to put
• 1:02:19
  them on such a pedestal that I'm thinking I don't belong in that
• 1:02:22
  group. It's a why not?
• 1:02:23
  Why not me? Particular when you're going to
• 1:02:26
  come across some people that are doing the same things, they get
• 1:02:29
  is that these 20 years ago and they probably do it very well
• 1:02:32
  and they probably coach you very well, but I'm my plan is to
• 1:02:35
  evolve. I'm not going to be doing the
• 1:02:37
  same thing. Now that I was doing a year or
• 1:02:40
  two ago just like same way you approached it.
• 1:02:43
  So if you, why not me, did you when you started kind of that
• 1:02:47
  when Meg said that, which I love that because again that just
• 1:02:50
  like I don't know that people realize that when they speak
• 1:02:53
  something positive to People for its yeah.
• 1:02:57
  How impactful that. Sometimes we go.
• 1:03:00
  I just you know, it'll be the he was going to do it anyway.
• 1:03:02
  It's like no no there. Those are part of that's kind of
• 1:03:05
  kinlan, a lot of people maybe had to speak into you to do that
• 1:03:07
  but if they don't then that never that fire never gets
• 1:03:10
  going. So I just think you know props
• 1:03:12
  to Meg and what I mean, what a genius by the way, the stone
• 1:03:15
  couple. Yes, get out of here.
• 1:03:16
  I mean, I don't know that we know them today, like, when in
• 1:03:21
  the late 90s and 2000's when they're writing a ton and In a
• 1:03:24
  ton of like, man, these people know a lot.
• 1:03:28
  I don't know that we're still reading those things necessarily
• 1:03:30
  today, which we should be. They did amazing research
• 1:03:32
  without a book recently. Oh, did they okay good?
• 1:03:35
  Good good, perfect, good. They should, they have the
• 1:03:37
  knowledge that we needed out there in the world?
• 1:03:39
  So, so love that mag just, you know, like hey you know what,
• 1:03:42
  you're considered that you should be coaching that it was
• 1:03:44
  like, okay. So as you as that starts kind of
• 1:03:47
  flipping for you like, okay? Yeah, why not me?
• 1:03:49
  Did you start paying attention to college coaches?
• 1:03:52
  You're in an area where there were a lot of Coaching
• 1:03:55
  opportunities for you to see that you start kind of watching
• 1:03:57
  the how they do things and what they do things and maybe started
• 1:04:00
  talking to them and asking questions.
• 1:04:01
  Or did you keep moving forward in the high school coaching
• 1:04:04
  setting? There's a friend here at UNC
• 1:04:06
  Asheville. Brad, Deweese, who's now the
• 1:04:08
  performance director for the New York Jets?
• 1:04:10
  Yeah. Very another super smart, dude.
• 1:04:13
  Yes, he was with the bobsled and skeleton at Lake Placid and
• 1:04:19
  we've even had some former student athletes who were
• 1:04:21
  assisting him up there for a while.
• 1:04:23
  And then like, say he's That you was at ETSU with dr.
• 1:04:26
  Stone up until I guess a year and a half ago and Brad had been
• 1:04:31
  trying to get me into the Collegiate setting and a guide
• 1:04:34
  named Jesse Norman that he had actually been at Western
• 1:04:38
  Carolina where yeah it came her head coach here and he kept
• 1:04:43
  pushing when in 2007 when Brett when the job came open, Brad
• 1:04:49
  kept pushing my name. So you need hire this guy, you'd
• 1:04:52
  hire this guy and I said Brad and I go back to I think it was
• 1:04:56
  2000 or 2001, a former athlete a minor Watauga came here to
• 1:05:00
  Asheville and he said, he had recalled his name.
• 1:05:04
  He's the one actually kind of connected.
• 1:05:06
  So because there's a coach that I, my high school coach.
• 1:05:09
  I think you and Brad, I think you guys should meet each other.
• 1:05:13
  You should, I guess you noted, some similarities?
• 1:05:16
  Or I'm not sure exactly why. But I think he's, he saw the
• 1:05:22
  maybe Kindred Spirits, perhaps I do.
• 1:05:25
  Yeah, but Brad's a good friend and I've never been in New York,
• 1:05:30
  Jets fan. I don't hate the Jess, but now I
• 1:05:32
  pull for them because not only is Brad there.
• 1:05:34
  But Omar Ahmad, as a former jumper for us and our former
• 1:05:37
  head strength, coach here, up until 2016.
• 1:05:41
  He's an assistant with the jet. So obviously I wanted to just to
• 1:05:44
  be successful because I you know you know, in that industry is
• 1:05:49
  not for a long who fell. So I'm always hoping for them to
• 1:05:53
  be successful as a program. They're great coaches, they're
• 1:05:56
  absolutely outstanding coaches. That's really cool.
• 1:05:58
  So you parley Watauga into did you say in the assistant job at
• 1:06:03
  Asheville? Yes.
• 1:06:04
  Okay. So what was that?
• 1:06:06
  Like I mean I don't want to Broad stroke and say we all as
• 1:06:10
  High School coaches want to be college coaches.
• 1:06:12
  Certainly not everybody does. I will note that when I coached
• 1:06:16
  I'm sorry when I taught level ones and I did about 30 before I
• 1:06:20
  retired stop doing that. One of the most common questions
• 1:06:23
  I had from High School. Coaches was, how do I coach, how
• 1:06:27
  do I become a college coach? And my answer typically was,
• 1:06:30
  maybe adult. You might be in a really sweet
• 1:06:33
  situation that you don't realize what's on the other side.
• 1:06:36
  What was that transition, like, going to Asheville and where are
• 1:06:39
  we in the 20-year program for the degree?
• 1:06:43
  We did we because we get it somewhere.
• 1:06:46
  Oh, 2004. Yeah, got it, got it done.
• 1:06:49
  And then I coach that will toggle one more year moved into
• 1:06:53
  one of those Velocity Sports Performance, I guess.
• 1:06:57
  Yes, hopefully that's not a, that was okay, to get back into
• 1:07:06
  the field and 2007, the job came open.
• 1:07:09
  Yeah, interview. And I think I started October
• 1:07:14
  9th, 2007. So, I've been here, this is the
• 1:07:17
  start of my 16th year. Wow, I wondered where the degree
• 1:07:21
  came in because you know, that's sometimes a showstopper.
• 1:07:24
  Her to coach College. I'm not always.
• 1:07:26
  But a lot of times you have to have that agrees.
• 1:07:28
  That's what I wanted. Weird, that going.
• 1:07:30
  Oh, yeah, how hard was that? Take a step back there?
• 1:07:33
  How hard was that to go back and get your degree?
• 1:07:36
  Had been off of school for a while?
• 1:07:38
  How? I mean, just mentally and
• 1:07:41
  workload wise, how was that to do that?
• 1:07:44
  I mean, like, you always hear from anybody, hey, you're going
• 1:07:47
  to have to make some changes. You're going to have to make
• 1:07:50
  some sacrifices to make this work.
• 1:07:51
  I just had a year and a half of school left because A lot of the
• 1:07:55
  I had a lot of hours but I had to get a lot of hours drop
• 1:08:00
  because they weren't towards what I end up going back to
• 1:08:04
  health promotions with his health and wellness and got a
• 1:08:06
  minor and exercise science which is my original major intention,
• 1:08:10
  right? So I ended up not some of those
• 1:08:13
  classes didn't necessarily work for the other so I ended up
• 1:08:15
  having a year and a half to go to complete that but it wasn't
• 1:08:19
  that difficult it was just a matter of just knowing hey you
• 1:08:22
  just got to get through three. Masters the right.
• 1:08:26
  One, two? Yeah, three semesters in, you're
• 1:08:28
  done. And you have your degree and
• 1:08:30
  then, maybe some openings, some opportunities will emerge from
• 1:08:34
  having finally completed that thing, right?
• 1:08:37
  Well, Bravo D. I'm not necessarily the biggest
• 1:08:40
  college guy. I mean, I don't think that
• 1:08:42
  that's necessarily especially in today's world.
• 1:08:44
  As I look at my almost 12 year old and nine year old.
• 1:08:47
  I'm like, hmm, maybe not, I don't know, maybe but maybe not.
• 1:08:51
  So I'm not necessarily the biggest college guy but Bravo,
• 1:08:54
  to you, You're going back sticking to it, you, I think you
• 1:08:57
  might have over simplified it a little bit because again, your
• 1:09:00
  life is different going into classes versus everything else.
• 1:09:03
  You had to make some sacrifices of the work and right.
• 1:09:05
  Probably missed a practice or two for whatever reasons, how
• 1:09:08
  you know, here and there. But just, you know, to be able
• 1:09:10
  to have that stick-to-it-ness and say, you know what, I know,
• 1:09:13
  I'm so close. Let me, let me finish it out.
• 1:09:15
  That's that's a I wanted to make sure we're in how that was
• 1:09:18
  because there's other people right now that are semester away
• 1:09:21
  two years away and they're like I just can't do it just bends.
• 1:09:24
  Out. Yeah, I think that's important.
• 1:09:27
  Yeah. Think that you hear a lot of a
• 1:09:29
  lot of actors and musicians. Some big opportunity opens up
• 1:09:33
  and okay, granted for their financial situation, they didn't
• 1:09:37
  necessarily need to get their degree because some acting
• 1:09:40
  opportunity or whatever in. Okay, maybe they don't eat it,
• 1:09:43
  but for most of us, we're going to rely on least having proven
• 1:09:46
  that we can get through, right? Four years or 20 and he
• 1:09:51
  completely being coachable. Honorable teachable all those
• 1:09:55
  kind of things. Yeah, I think that that's that
• 1:09:58
  was important at Bravo for doing that.
• 1:10:00
  Okay, so you your college coach, you're the assistant at UNC
• 1:10:05
  Asheville. What are the did?
• 1:10:07
  What would smack you up the head?
• 1:10:08
  What were you like? Oh my, I did not realize as a
• 1:10:10
  college coach, I was going to have to deal with or do XY and Z
• 1:10:14
  but was just like you just didn't see it coming.
• 1:10:16
  Just had to have the experience that happened to you.
• 1:10:18
  One of the things was in as much as I even love the strength
• 1:10:22
  training is strength, power development.
• 1:10:23
  It you know People, I talked about it so much.
• 1:10:26
  Some people think you're not a track coach, you're a strength
• 1:10:28
  coach disguised as a track coach.
• 1:10:30
  And I, I just feel like I'm both of those things.
• 1:10:33
  And I feel like taking that seriously has made it important
• 1:10:36
  part in successful part of what we do.
• 1:10:39
  But, the amount of because at the time we did have a full
• 1:10:42
  like, Brad was a part-time strength coach.
• 1:10:45
  He was a head coach, but we only, we only had a part-time,
• 1:10:48
  had strength coach at a division, one school, and the
• 1:10:51
  matter of hours, you'd have to spend in the weight room Beyond
• 1:10:54
  And so, it wasn't like, I'm out on the track athletes.
• 1:10:58
  Go in work with the strength coach like, no, you are the
• 1:11:01
  strength coach. So you're going to do
• 1:11:02
  everything. So, the amount of hours, you
• 1:11:04
  expand it, you know, we still spend lots of hours doing things
• 1:11:09
  on an average daily basis, but it's not is not as extensive as
• 1:11:14
  it used to be where you had to be.
• 1:11:16
  You're going to start early, you're going to finish late
• 1:11:18
  every day because just athlete needs supervision.
• 1:11:22
  And you wanted to have that supervision.
• 1:11:25
  But there was no one else to do it.
• 1:11:26
  All right. So you're going to have to
• 1:11:28
  smaller program jobs. You can be sort of a jack of all
• 1:11:31
  trades, or it's not going to get done.
• 1:11:34
  And it's like, do I want to go without it?
• 1:11:36
  No, it's important. But I know he needs to get done.
• 1:11:40
  So, you're, you're the one to do it.
• 1:11:43
  So, the reverse of that question is, what did you step into in
• 1:11:47
  the college coaching for track and field?
• 1:11:49
  That was like, man, it's like riding a bike, you even doing it
• 1:11:53
  forever, it was Easier than you even thought it was going to be.
• 1:11:58
  I'd say you don't have as many outside.
• 1:12:02
  Like, obviously, the education part is the priority but you
• 1:12:06
  don't have as many outside drains on their energy.
• 1:12:09
  They're just they may be part of some Club.
• 1:12:12
  They have a cat. This like we're, it's a very
• 1:12:14
  good school here, highly demanding academically.
• 1:12:18
  But other than that, and that's demanding, that's a, that's a
• 1:12:20
  challenge on its own. But there's not well, the social
• 1:12:25
  like, one of the things I've seen with high school and I know
• 1:12:27
  this, To number is called is coaches pulling on coat on
• 1:12:32
  athletes from other sports when they're in their season like a
• 1:12:36
  sports says, hey I need this athletes.
• 1:12:38
  Like no, we're in season. I think coach and most do but
• 1:12:43
  there are coaches that maybe don't respect a student athlete
• 1:12:48
  being in a sport and then like letting them finish their season
• 1:12:51
  out before like For example, is a high school girls, I wouldn't
• 1:12:55
  say, hey, soccer coach or hey volleyball coach.
• 1:12:59
  I need your athletes. I know you got a playoff game
• 1:13:01
  coming up tonight know and, you know, you have to respect, not
• 1:13:05
  only the student athlete and what they've committed to, but
• 1:13:08
  also the other program, and sometimes that gets lost at the
• 1:13:11
  high school level College. That's not an issue.
• 1:13:15
  They're fully committed to being there every day and not to say
• 1:13:19
  we didn't have great high school athletes that were committed.
• 1:13:21
  We did, but there's just not many.
• 1:13:23
  As many different strains or poles on them.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah, high school. That, you know, you got prom
• 1:13:29
  yearbook committee, part-time were theater.
• 1:13:33
  Yeah. There's so many things where
• 1:13:34
  it's like, oh, you when you're in college, especially as a
• 1:13:36
  college athlete, you're pretty much Sports and academics and
• 1:13:39
  maybe have a part-time job or support.
• 1:13:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's interesting.
• 1:13:43
  So, as you go through your first and second year, there into
• 1:13:48
  college coaching, was there anything that you look back at
• 1:13:51
  the high schools? You coached high school for
• 1:13:53
  quite a while. Alan had a great High School
• 1:13:55
  career there, as a coach, was there anything?
• 1:13:57
  You're like oh man. Maybe I should go back to high
• 1:14:00
  school. Or did you fall in love glom
• 1:14:03
  onto the Collegiate side of the coaching?
• 1:14:05
  I think the idea that you could actually be a professional coach
• 1:14:09
  and you're not making a small High School supplement your this
• 1:14:13
  is your profession. I think that's like cockade I
• 1:14:17
  should have been doing this earlier.
• 1:14:19
  Yeah. It says it was it like oh man,
• 1:14:20
  what did I spend so long for what I can?
• 1:14:23
  And I I tried from around 2005 till 2007, I definitely sent out
• 1:14:27
  resumes. But I always, I feel like in
• 1:14:31
  America some of our very best coaches are not to say.
• 1:14:36
  There's not greatly because I'm not saying that at all some of
• 1:14:38
  our very best coaches have been in the high school.
• 1:14:41
  Ranks had been a club setting Tony Wells who I considered a
• 1:14:44
  major major influence. Yeah, I got to meet him in 97.
• 1:14:49
  Oh, did you really love coach and but I mean I don't know how
• 1:14:54
  much more successful you could be as a club coach over shotput
• 1:14:59
  jumps obviously Sprint's hurdles outstanding coach and I still
• 1:15:03
  like his, I'd consider him a big influence.
• 1:15:06
  Yeah, that's a I don't like to have regrets but that's a regret
• 1:15:09
  of. I never got to meet Tony.
• 1:15:11
  I saw plenty of his videos and have gotten to know who one of
• 1:15:15
  his great. Yeah you know real well one of
• 1:15:18
  his protégé is Carol Smith. Gilbert now head coach at
• 1:15:20
  University of Georgia and it's funny.
• 1:15:23
  I had dinner with Brian Kula out in Denver.
• 1:15:28
  Yeah, and Brian's. Another Gil podcast Alum.
• 1:15:31
  And he got to know Tony because he was at y'all next door
• 1:15:35
  basically and we were just, he was just sharing stories and he
• 1:15:39
  was like, oh man, I missed out, I missed out.
• 1:15:41
  Not meeting a guy like Tony Wells, Man.
• 1:15:44
  What an influence, that there are coaches out there that are
• 1:15:47
  doing, Tony stuff that have no clue, that it's Tony stuff.
• 1:15:53
  You're hard-pressed to go out and find a lot of materials
• 1:15:56
  about him bright line, right? Can't find stuff and somebody
• 1:16:00
  should put out a book of his art like yeah, of his articles of
• 1:16:04
  some of his Works. Put his videos out there.
• 1:16:07
  Yeah. They gave a Tolbert, his put
• 1:16:08
  out, some of his stuff and I actually was present for that
• 1:16:12
  online presentation. I was good with him and God
• 1:16:15
  Curtis Taylor. I think it was the oh yeah.
• 1:16:18
  But that was that was impressive.
• 1:16:19
  And then, yeah, Tony was amazing.
• 1:16:23
  And there was another really good high school coach here,
• 1:16:26
  from North Carolina named Robert Steele.
• 1:16:28
  There was a longtime coach of north or an high or throwing.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah. Oh my gosh, they were to a high
• 1:16:33
  school producing. I think their all-time top five
• 1:16:37
  list is like 50 foot. Triple 550 ft, triple jumpers.
• 1:16:40
  And then that's where Greg, Goodell?
• 1:16:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do great her outstanding
• 1:16:45
  hurdlers. Yeah, rowers sprinters.
• 1:16:50
  Just amazing. A small school just dominate the
• 1:16:53
  to Jay and some of their performances were as good as the
• 1:16:56
  3A 4A teams in the same year. So Robert Steele was a, I think
• 1:17:00
  he's retired but he was an outstanding North Carolina
• 1:17:03
  coast. Yeah, I'm not sure the state of
• 1:17:05
  North Carolina gets its do in regards to high school track and
• 1:17:09
  field. I mean of course we talked about
• 1:17:10
  the Texas Florida California, right?
• 1:17:12
  Just because of the volume of people and performances that
• 1:17:15
  come out of there. You know right here in the
• 1:17:17
  Midwest we get a lot of credit rightfully so you know Wisconsin
• 1:17:22
  Illinois, Indiana Ohio. IO produce, amazing, but North
• 1:17:25
  Carolina. You know, it's not that
• 1:17:26
  populous, right? There's a lot of woods in North
• 1:17:28
  Carolina, it's beautiful state. But we, it produces my number
• 1:17:33
  one state is New Jersey, by the way.
• 1:17:34
  That's my per capita. Like, well, you can't beat New
• 1:17:37
  Jersey, but North Carolina and Wilson and Sydney, and that's
• 1:17:43
  just recently. You can go back a long.
• 1:17:45
  Don't ever? Carl was from New Jersey as
• 1:17:48
  well. Yeah, yeah, it was always my
• 1:17:50
  recruiting Alabama, though, right.
• 1:17:53
  Original original. Yeah, really grew up in
• 1:17:55
  Wellingborough. Yeah, exactly yeah exactly.
• 1:17:58
  You know your history okay. So how long were you the system
• 1:18:02
  before you became the head and how long in to be an assistant?
• 1:18:06
  Did you think I might want to be a head coach as well one day?
• 1:18:12
  Coach Williamson left here and we only work together nine
• 1:18:15
  months because Williamson was gaining audiences outstanding
• 1:18:18
  coach. Not only just being a great
• 1:18:20
  Coach. Danny was at Asheville just for
• 1:18:23
  the covid year and then he retired.
• 1:18:25
  Oh, right the summer after covid, hit.
• 1:18:28
  That's where I guess he just figured.
• 1:18:29
  This is a good time to get out but he was we were with him.
• 1:18:31
  One year at imputed. Who's the other assistant coach?
• 1:18:35
  At the time? He was an athlete and a ga under
• 1:18:38
  Danny. And Danny, besides being just a
• 1:18:42
  great coach just outstanding leader.
• 1:18:45
  I gesse right person. Yeah, I could see pretty quickly
• 1:18:50
  why he was so successful. Was it just his coaching?
• 1:18:53
  Yes, that was a big part of it, but it was also his leadership.
• 1:18:56
  And that's something, I'm that's just not the kind of head coach.
• 1:19:01
  I am, he just was such a good leader.
• 1:19:05
  Like, I'm a little bit different in that respect because, you
• 1:19:07
  know, you have to Be yourself but I respect completely how he
• 1:19:12
  is as a leader. And like I said I could see.
• 1:19:16
  This is why this guy has had so much success over so many years
• 1:19:19
  and doing it over the years with budgets that maybe scholarship
• 1:19:24
  budgets and operating budgets that maybe weren't that.
• 1:19:26
  And I'm not talking about dear Tom prior to hear that maybe he
• 1:19:31
  was getting not. Maybe he was getting the most
• 1:19:34
  out of what they had available as resources and people would
• 1:19:37
  develop from a Very modest levels to Olympians like Manny.
• 1:19:42
  Oh, right, so and he had other Olympians, I think he had had
• 1:19:47
  one or two other Olympians at least in his time.
• 1:19:50
  So he was outstanding, but the house in all of 2020 is when
• 1:19:57
  Adam and I he became the head coach for cross and I became
• 1:20:00
  head coach for tracking where the associate for the other
• 1:20:03
  each. And as far as when it, when it
• 1:20:09
  It dawned on me that I could be a kosher, you know, I was kind
• 1:20:13
  of content when he came in to, to continue.
• 1:20:16
  Just be an assistant coach. And I think it was good that we
• 1:20:20
  had people that had both of us had a lot of experience.
• 1:20:24
  Of course, it could be bad experience, but I felt like it
• 1:20:25
  was good productive experience. It was going to be beneficial to
• 1:20:28
  those people that were approaching, but I'd never told
• 1:20:33
  it just kind of presented itself.
• 1:20:35
  I never really I didn't really give it much thought.
• 1:20:38
  I figured I would Kind of Sail Out.
• 1:20:42
  As an assistant coach, and that's okay.
• 1:20:44
  Yeah, that's okay, that's right, that's important to hear that,
• 1:20:47
  that is okay. That there's nothing wrong with
• 1:20:49
  that. In fact, there are a number of
• 1:20:52
  assistant coaches that become head coaches because that's
• 1:20:55
  quote unquote, what you're supposed to do in poor, not very
• 1:20:57
  good head coaches and that's not because they're not talented,
• 1:21:00
  that's just not their wheelhouse, not their, their
• 1:21:02
  god-given talent and they are rock star assistant coaches,
• 1:21:05
  which makes the program better and as head coaches, they're
• 1:21:07
  not, that's just not their wheelhouse.
• 1:21:09
  So so it's not that that's completely right there that you
• 1:21:12
  do not. Have to become a head coach.
• 1:21:13
  In fact, there are a lot less head coaching positions in there
• 1:21:17
  are system Coach position, so not everybody is going to be a
• 1:21:20
  good coach now, I do feel good, good good.
• 1:21:23
  I'm gonna say and you're right, it's maybe not in their
• 1:21:26
  wheelhouse, maybe not to really their strengths.
• 1:21:28
  The other thing you got to think about, if you're, if someone was
• 1:21:31
  a good assistant coach, they moved to a head coach.
• 1:21:33
  Who's going to do? You have someone equally as good
• 1:21:36
  to replace your role when you move over.
• 1:21:39
  So it's a matter of like, our use effective in this.
• 1:21:41
  Other job is As you'd hope, but who's going to take on your
• 1:21:45
  role? When you move out of that, or
• 1:21:47
  Not Your Role, but somebody's wrong, right?
• 1:21:50
  No, that's exactly right. Because the answer typically is,
• 1:21:53
  I'll just do it. I'll do that.
• 1:21:54
  And the head coaching run, it's like, oh okay.
• 1:21:56
  That's why you're not going to be very good.
• 1:21:58
  That's why you're not going to succeed as much as maybe you
• 1:22:00
  could and should do. Yeah, great, great.
• 1:22:02
  Great point. Now, I do, I'm a little like to
• 1:22:07
  be, you know, it's my show, right?
• 1:22:08
  I'm the host. So I get to challenge people,
• 1:22:10
  Joel. So I'd like to change.
• 1:22:12
  Aren't you with your permission on something you said now?
• 1:22:16
  What? I'ma use my words.
• 1:22:18
  You correct me where I misunderstood you.
• 1:22:21
  Talked about Danny and his leadership and you are spot on.
• 1:22:24
  No challenge there, okay? And you said, yeah, that's not
• 1:22:27
  me. I'm not that type of leader.
• 1:22:29
  I think that's forbidden what you said.
• 1:22:31
  Yeah, that's correct. Tell me.
• 1:22:33
  How would you self-described? Your leadership style then if
• 1:22:37
  you're not add any wounds, and I'm not saying you have to be a
• 1:22:39
  Danny Williams and that's a pretty high bar but I have Often
• 1:22:43
  just from the hour and 20. We've been together so far
• 1:22:46
  today. Knowing, you know, I know
• 1:22:48
  Asheville track and field so it ain't like you just live in no
• 1:22:51
  man's land, you're not doing a good job.
• 1:22:53
  You're doing a great job. As the leader of the program,
• 1:22:55
  you are a leader, you are a good leader.
• 1:22:58
  So, tell me how you would describe if you kind of put
• 1:23:01
  yourself down a little bit there, that's why I'm
• 1:23:02
  challenging here. Tell me you're that's more like
• 1:23:04
  leadership style differences. I'm not is much.
• 1:23:08
  And and that's not to say he was over the top on this.
• 1:23:10
  Because I always felt like he was fair.
• 1:23:12
  Just not as much of an in-your-face, kind of coach and
• 1:23:16
  challenging people. Maybe, as often, as I said, his
• 1:23:21
  was completely appropriate and I never saw a time where I thought
• 1:23:23
  he's being unfair, but that's not really my style.
• 1:23:26
  I-i'm more like I'm going to talk to you about something, but
• 1:23:30
  I want you to kind of figure it out and I'm not going to try to
• 1:23:33
  force this issue. Like said he did.
• 1:23:37
  I don't mean to say that. Yeah, and and don't hear that.
• 1:23:39
  That I'm not trying to put a comparison here, please.
• 1:23:41
  Yeah. He probably not do it.
• 1:23:42
  I'm nowhere, just a question of then.
• 1:23:44
  How do you self-described your leadership?
• 1:23:46
  That that's let's focus on that. Not the comparison, just how you
• 1:23:49
  describe your leadership. It's a little bit more just like
• 1:23:52
  from a teaching perspective for I just want to have like
• 1:23:56
  conversation with somebody on the side about things, they need
• 1:24:00
  to do differently, things, they need to improve on and it's
• 1:24:05
  never, it's usually not going to be as in front of people like
• 1:24:08
  said he never any time. If somebody got called out it
• 1:24:11
  was appropriate. It.
• 1:24:12
  But that's just, I'm generally, I've got mad.
• 1:24:16
  It's never just definitely not a case where I've never gotten mad
• 1:24:19
  in power lead, but I don't generally, it doesn't generally
• 1:24:22
  happen. If I get mad, it's going to be
• 1:24:25
  pretty rare. I guess you would say, hourly
• 1:24:29
  where I'm going to be yelling at group of people because I always
• 1:24:32
  feel like at least from my perspective and looks at this
• 1:24:35
  has nothing to do with him because like I said, he that's
• 1:24:37
  right. No comparison here.
• 1:24:38
  I'm not going to compare now. If I feel like if I have to do
• 1:24:44
  that to a whole group, then that's probably my fault is that
• 1:24:49
  means too many people. Here aren't getting it.
• 1:24:51
  And that means that's a communication issue.
• 1:24:53
  And that's probably my on me, right?
• 1:24:55
  I'd say he was really smooth about, like, he knew he knew the
• 1:24:58
  right thing to say, when to say it, I never felt like he was
• 1:25:02
  unfair and I was only with him nine months.
• 1:25:04
  So it's not like I had this expensive or expansive,
• 1:25:07
  five-year or ten-year coach player, but he was, he was a
• 1:25:10
  Professional tough coach but a fair coach.
• 1:25:13
  Yeah, I'm just probably a little bit more subdued and this
• 1:25:17
  probably times where I need to be a little bit more of that
• 1:25:19
  money that they're probably times where there would be some
• 1:25:22
  value into that and I do but it's probably some kind of
• 1:25:27
  throwing a clipboard down warm-up.
• 1:25:30
  Are you guys doing? We're doing such no.
• 1:25:35
  No, you're not. That's not.
• 1:25:37
  What's that's? Not the warmup just stuff like
• 1:25:39
  that. I might That often because
• 1:25:41
  they're good smart and they're coachable.
• 1:25:45
  So. But every now and then probably
• 1:25:47
  you would be, you would do me. Well, maybe maybe like, a
• 1:25:50
  strategic blow up every now and then, a little bit more
• 1:25:52
  strategic blow. I like that.
• 1:25:54
  Today, we're scheduled, I'll blow because really needed.
• 1:25:58
  Let's see what's on my schedule. All right.
• 1:26:03
  Well, I like that because, you know, I think you're spot on
• 1:26:05
  again. I didn't the intent there for
• 1:26:07
  that. Question was not to compare you
• 1:26:09
  to a Dandy Williamson. First of all, because comparison
• 1:26:11
  of any two coaches is just unfair also that you were with
• 1:26:14
  Danny for nine months, for crying out loud.
• 1:26:16
  It's barely long enough to have a baby, so, no comparison there.
• 1:26:20
  It's more about that your style, how you want to be your style?
• 1:26:24
  How you? I love the you took it and a
• 1:26:27
  great next step of you. Having a lot of self-awareness
• 1:26:29
  of like, maybe I need to be a little bit more that way in
• 1:26:32
  certain spots strategically because what I love that is,
• 1:26:36
  there are so many different styles of people who are
• 1:26:39
  coaches, right? Like Thinking of you have to
• 1:26:43
  know a very good friend of mine, Jim Sprecher.
• 1:26:45
  Oh yeah, Lynchburg? Right?
• 1:26:47
  Also Gil podcast Alum, I worked with sprack at Ball State.
• 1:26:52
  Great guy, great guy, right? So think about his style
• 1:26:55
  compared to a mouse Holloway compared to my old boss at Ball,
• 1:26:59
  State, soup Parks, three different people that have had
• 1:27:04
  mucho mucho success like lots of lots of success.
• 1:27:07
  And what I love about everybody having a different leadership
• 1:27:10
  Ship and personality style. Is there are 18 year old kids
• 1:27:14
  are high school kids that need to be with someone like you and
• 1:27:17
  not with someone like a mouse, they're not going to thrive
• 1:27:19
  under him versus you that need to be with you.
• 1:27:22
  Not Carol Smith Gilbert, they're going to thrive on you because
• 1:27:26
  the reverse is true. There are people that don't they
• 1:27:28
  don't to be at Asheville program with you, because they need to
• 1:27:30
  be with us, early. Georgia.
• 1:27:32
  Absolutely correct. Lynchburg Etc.
• 1:27:33
  So, now, that, that's where I was trying to get to is like,
• 1:27:35
  well, what is your leadership style?
• 1:27:36
  So I love that. That's really cool.
• 1:27:38
  How many years have you been at Asheville?
• 1:27:40
  Now. This is the start of my just
• 1:27:44
  started my 16th year, man. Wait time goes by.
• 1:27:47
  That's amazing. I love that.
• 1:27:50
  Think about, think about I love busting myths.
• 1:27:53
  One of the myths that we have out there.
• 1:27:55
  It's, I love that you had this great in lengthy High School
• 1:27:58
  career. And now you're in the midst of
• 1:28:00
  your, this great link the collegiate career.
• 1:28:03
  Because one of the myths, I love doing this because it's to me,
• 1:28:06
  it's just it, maybe you believe this myth until you're going to
• 1:28:09
  bust me. I'm that's that's open.
• 1:28:10
  We're gonna Good for that. We're good for that.
• 1:28:12
  You're allowed to challenge back.
• 1:28:13
  Now that I've challenged you Joel but there's this myth out
• 1:28:16
  there that High School coaches, can't coach in the Collegiate
• 1:28:19
  level. Mainly for one reason they can't
• 1:28:23
  recruit. Yeah, I usually coaching, it's
• 1:28:26
  usually like, well why wouldn't even talk to him?
• 1:28:28
  If they didn't have secured its recruiting, how did you, how did
• 1:28:33
  you overcome this? I'm being sarcastic.
• 1:28:35
  You this unbelievably unimaginable hurdle here.
• 1:28:38
  Joel, I agree with you because my Argument against that belief
• 1:28:44
  is before even a Collegiate coach recruited.
• 1:28:48
  He wasn't a recruiter. So he started somewhere to oh
• 1:28:51
  wow, it just because I mean and I will say this to like High
• 1:28:56
  School coaches recruit the hallways And we know there's
• 1:29:01
  some high schools that recruit across town and make it make
• 1:29:04
  some of their competitors, mad, I guess you can do that at some
• 1:29:08
  schools but most school districts, where I guess would
• 1:29:11
  frown upon that. But they do recruit.
• 1:29:13
  They just recruit in different ways.
• 1:29:14
  But I always, that's something I like to go back to you before
• 1:29:18
  you did something, or before you had done something, you have
• 1:29:20
  never done that. He started somewhere.
• 1:29:23
  So, why couldn't somebody? Why couldn't the coach at the
• 1:29:26
  high school level learned is to recruit either.
• 1:29:28
  I don't think that's true at all.
• 1:29:30
  I love asking that question specifically of High School
• 1:29:33
  coaches that have gone on to college.
• 1:29:35
  And I tell you every High School coach, I'm talking about every
• 1:29:40
  High School coach that we've had on the podcast.
• 1:29:42
  And we've had now for the past two years, we've had the four
• 1:29:45
  National High School coaches of the Year through US Tipsy.
• 1:29:48
  A so high level. I mean, we talk about some
• 1:29:50
  high-level coaches. We had a high school coach from
• 1:29:53
  Kentucky, that ran, that runs a track meet at his school and has
• 1:29:58
  no track. So, he invites school's over and
• 1:30:00
  they do the the one lap around the parking lot.
• 1:30:02
  They do the softball throw in the softball field.
• 1:30:06
  He dug out a long jump pit and they used the sidewalk like, you
• 1:30:09
  know, no excuses type of person, right?
• 1:30:12
  So if so everybody from that that guy has no tracking in has
• 1:30:15
  meets up to the National High School, coaches of the year.
• 1:30:18
  And their success is almost the same as a Let's code.
• 1:30:22
  It is predicated on the athletes that they go out and get
• 1:30:26
  certainly, there are a number of kids that come out, but they all
• 1:30:28
  talk about. You, you hit the nail on the
• 1:30:30
  head. They all recruit the hallway.
• 1:30:32
  They're always looking like. Hey man, so you got cut from
• 1:30:35
  baseball, you won't come over here.
• 1:30:37
  Hey, I know you play soccer in the fall.
• 1:30:39
  You I saw you pretty fast. You want to come try track,
• 1:30:42
  right? And that's the way their success
• 1:30:43
  rate is dependent on that. So when people tell me, yeah, I
• 1:30:47
  can't hire a high school coach because they can't recruit.
• 1:30:49
  It's like, wait a minute. And I felt like I was a pretty
• 1:30:51
  good like, Recruiting was one of my top things.
• 1:30:53
  One of my top skills when I was coaching College in, as much as
• 1:30:57
  I was really good at it, it wasn't rocket science.
• 1:31:00
  But what I mean by that, it wasn't some kind of specialized
• 1:31:02
  knowledge base, it was more personal reality, yeah?
• 1:31:07
  Yes, yes, yes, yes. And personality.
• 1:31:09
  Maybe a little bit with the right, but it's like that's not
• 1:31:12
  you don't lose that because you become a high school coach and
• 1:31:15
  teacher. In fact, like I said, I the
• 1:31:17
  coaches we've had on the podcast, it's like it might be
• 1:31:20
  harder. They don't get.
• 1:31:22
  To. They don't get to bring anybody
• 1:31:23
  on an official visit in high school and wine and dine them,
• 1:31:26
  and all that kind of stuff. They don't get to get them
• 1:31:28
  pictures in their uniforms, all that kinda stuff.
• 1:31:30
  So, I love that you're the career.
• 1:31:33
  You had high school and now in college, did you find anything
• 1:31:36
  to struggle with recruiting, or was it just like, oh yeah, I
• 1:31:39
  just get to sell a different product in a different way.
• 1:31:41
  Now that I'm a college coach, and I think when you believe in
• 1:31:44
  your product, it makes your recruiting a lot easier.
• 1:31:46
  And they because you You sort of describe the product, the
• 1:31:50
  education, Etc. And in a way that you believe,
• 1:31:54
  and I think that comes through to people or it doesn't, or does
• 1:32:00
  it? Yeah.
• 1:32:01
  I meant in our situation because I do believe in our yeah,
• 1:32:04
  education. But yeah.
• 1:32:05
  In general exam on all programs. Yeah.
• 1:32:08
  If you don't really believe in or if you don't think is
• 1:32:10
  important, you don't talk about it and if education is important
• 1:32:13
  to you as a student athlete and a coach isn't stressing that at
• 1:32:17
  all, It never comes up, right, and it may be even they ask a
• 1:32:20
  question and the coach changes the subject you might want to
• 1:32:24
  think twice about is that for you.
• 1:32:26
  So, I mean, these kids, these 18 year old 17, 18 year olds,
• 1:32:29
  they're smart kids, you're not going to pull much over them in
• 1:32:33
  today's world. You faking the funk, man.
• 1:32:35
  There's a, that little that little BS detector will be SM.
• 1:32:38
  M, kind of goes up there, like, wait a minute, man.
• 1:32:41
  They got to where they are because they're smart people.
• 1:32:44
  Smart book, smart, and smart Street Smart.
• 1:32:46
  So, Hesitate that any coaches, get a full pull, the hood, over
• 1:32:51
  some, some some kid today. May I tell you, so good, you
• 1:32:57
  know, just just because a high school coach hasn't recruited in
• 1:33:00
  the format of a college program. Why does that mean they can't do
• 1:33:05
  it? We put people in different
• 1:33:07
  events and they get here, man. We challenged them to different
• 1:33:11
  events. Like, hey, you're alone.
• 1:33:13
  Jumper, and a sprinter. All right.
• 1:33:15
  I'm going to make you a multi because As maybe you have some
• 1:33:18
  abilities and some other areas. So why would I person not be
• 1:33:22
  able to adapt to a different recruiting round?
• 1:33:24
  Yeah, there may be a little transition but why can't they do
• 1:33:29
  it? Just because they haven't done
• 1:33:30
  it till I've heard many, many people answer that question for
• 1:33:34
  me and you have put it better than I've ever heard.
• 1:33:37
  Like you not to read out on your very first sentence when you
• 1:33:39
  said every college, coach was a non recruiter at one time and I
• 1:33:42
  was like, oh my gosh. Even if they were an athlete,
• 1:33:44
  okay. You didn't recruit you met.
• 1:33:45
  You I know you're part of maybe the recruiting process.
• 1:33:47
  They were but you were non recruiter at some point to and
• 1:33:51
  and here we have a coach who has experience coaching and whatever
• 1:33:54
  you want to say about non recruiting again.
• 1:33:56
  They are recruiting the hallways but they're going to be the
• 1:33:58
  same. Like, come on.
• 1:33:59
  You learned it again. It's not Secret Sauce here.
• 1:34:01
  Ah, yeah, that was that's so succinct man.
• 1:34:03
  I love that. Thank you for sharing those
• 1:34:05
  thoughts. Yeah, thank you Jett that.
• 1:34:07
  So let's talk about today at UNC Asheville gorgeous.
• 1:34:11
  By the way, the vocation you North Carolina is a, I don't
• 1:34:14
  know, man. That's a pretty.
• 1:34:16
  It's a pretty interesting places.
• 1:34:17
  As far as Beauty, it's a great state, their talk to us about,
• 1:34:21
  you know, we don't do anything without a staff.
• 1:34:23
  You mentioned the head cross country.
• 1:34:24
  Coach talked to us about your staff there and what you got
• 1:34:27
  going on for coaches. JP Cambro is our jumps coach.
• 1:34:31
  He helps me with Sprint specially right now.
• 1:34:33
  We're kind of our strength coach is out on paternity leave.
• 1:34:37
  So I'm the only one that Curly has a strength coach
• 1:34:39
  certification. So I'm the only one that really
• 1:34:41
  can be in there with our athletes.
• 1:34:42
  So right now he's handling the jumps and the Sprint's hurdles.
• 1:34:47
  There's one group I can go with because there's no weight
• 1:34:49
  training group at that time but JP was a jumper and a football
• 1:34:54
  player. I think you played Safety for
• 1:34:55
  Duke. He's from Hendersonville which
• 1:34:58
  is just south of us about 20 minutes south of us.
• 1:35:02
  Kim Cannon was a thrower for Western Carolina.
• 1:35:04
  She's also from Asheville area. She went to TC Robertson, High
• 1:35:07
  School, just south of us and Arden just about 20 minutes from
• 1:35:11
  us. And then actually, so to our
• 1:35:14
  coaches are from Western Adam and Kim.
• 1:35:17
  Amanda JP from duke and there are and I atoms actually Reggie
• 1:35:21
  from Huntsville, by the way. Oh, is that right?
• 1:35:24
  Yeah. Wow.
• 1:35:25
  The Alabama connection for? Yeah, always, that's the best
• 1:35:28
  people down in Alabama. Let me tell you.
• 1:35:31
  That's awesome. I love that.
• 1:35:32
  You know it's it's interesting the like the family of North
• 1:35:37
  Carolina schools on a know you mentioned Adam from Huntsville
• 1:35:39
  but those other people went to Western and you know they're all
• 1:35:42
  kind of North Carolina people. Yeah.
• 1:35:45
  And myself. Yeah.
• 1:35:47
  Um so yeah. We're all I guess three of us
• 1:35:50
  are I'm a South Carolina. Native their North Carolina
• 1:35:53
  natives as far as I know. But they're outstanding
• 1:35:57
  development like will get kids that maybe aren't you know we
• 1:36:02
  see some some potential in them but all these coaches are so
• 1:36:06
  good with development and that's the thing I really appreciate
• 1:36:09
  about all of them. They don't just require on
• 1:36:11
  ready-made Talent. Would we like more ready-made
• 1:36:14
  town to come in? Sure.
• 1:36:16
  Although that can kind of come with its own issues.
• 1:36:18
  For example, they've had a coach who's sort of kitchen sink them
• 1:36:22
  in high school through every single thing they could add them
• 1:36:25
  and there's not that much more room for development.
• 1:36:30
  Then it becomes a real challenge for the coach like how am I
• 1:36:32
  going to improve this person but they're this is Staff.
• 1:36:37
  It just so good on development. They can see something in
• 1:36:40
  somebody and they knew all the right steps.
• 1:36:43
  Sure there's mistakes along the way.
• 1:36:45
  We all do it, but they're so good.
• 1:36:47
  Development. And we get people to come in and
• 1:36:51
  they far exceed the levels that they were achieving before they
• 1:36:55
  got here. Well, I have a lot of respect
• 1:36:57
  for college coaches in the state of North Carolina, because
• 1:37:00
  remember, it's not that populace of a state compared to even
• 1:37:03
  Illinois. There's way more people in
• 1:37:05
  Illinois than in North Carolina. But there are a Gob ton of
• 1:37:08
  colleges that have track programs in the state of North
• 1:37:11
  Carolina. Oh, my Lord, there are so many
• 1:37:13
  opportunities for in-state school, or in state kids.
• 1:37:16
  And then, of course, out-of-state kids.
• 1:37:17
  So, you've got to be if you coaching in North Carolina and a
• 1:37:20
  college, you gotta hustle because you are you have
• 1:37:23
  competition every single kid. Absolutely.
• 1:37:26
  In fact, this more challenging for us to recruit in-state.
• 1:37:29
  Yes, it is out of state and of course, you could say, well,
• 1:37:31
  that's also 49 states. You can recruit from versus one.
• 1:37:36
  Although you would think the one you're in it would be easier not
• 1:37:39
  necessarily, especially if you're trying to get them from
• 1:37:41
  this area because, you know, if you've grown up in an area, a
• 1:37:44
  lot of times it's difficult to keep that person they want to
• 1:37:46
  move on to. Else.
• 1:37:48
  Somebody from the beach might be more interested like hey I want
• 1:37:51
  to live in the mountains now but it's a challenge because less
• 1:37:55
  I've got the number incorrect or Seventeen member schools in the
• 1:37:59
  UNC system. So it's a lot of schools to
• 1:38:03
  compete against together where we come out.
• 1:38:07
  Sometimes we get some recruiting interest because if you look up
• 1:38:10
  University of North Carolina, either Chapel Hill come up, or
• 1:38:13
  we will because alphabetically we're alphabetically.
• 1:38:16
  But I tell you what, I never rely on that.
• 1:38:19
  Somebody thinks that we're are you guys the Tar, Heels.
• 1:38:23
  No, we're not. In fact, I guess there was an
• 1:38:27
  athlete before I even got here, who I think he was from Germany.
• 1:38:32
  I think I believe is a decathlete.
• 1:38:34
  Oh no already asked the head coach at the time.
• 1:38:36
  So where's the dean Dome? And he said, the guy said about
• 1:38:41
  three and a half hours that way. Oh no.
• 1:38:45
  Oh man. Kids.
• 1:38:49
  Yeah, I mean they're from out of state.
• 1:38:51
  So I understand University whether it's us or one other
• 1:38:55
  campus may not have that. If they're from the south, they
• 1:38:59
  probably know if they're from the Midwest or the West.
• 1:39:03
  Yeah. They may not, they just know
• 1:39:04
  University. North County that's called as
• 1:39:06
  one school right now. That's one of many campus.
• 1:39:09
  Right? Right.
• 1:39:10
  Right. Right.
• 1:39:10
  Half is also a member of that system.
• 1:39:12
  Yeah, right. Yeah, that's amazing.
• 1:39:14
  That's a great story. Well, Joel to wrap up.
• 1:39:17
  Up here today to talk to us about.
• 1:39:19
  What's got you excited about your program?
• 1:39:21
  You guys are doing some good things there and what's coming
• 1:39:24
  up this year or next couple of years, you kind of for see
• 1:39:26
  that's get you pumped up to be there at UNC Asheville.
• 1:39:29
  We have new facility being constructed.
• 1:39:31
  Currently, it's inconvenient for this year right now, but will
• 1:39:36
  its inconvenience for it will it will serve us well going
• 1:39:40
  forward. So we're looking forward to
• 1:39:42
  that. It should be completed by the
• 1:39:44
  end of March. So will at least be able to get
• 1:39:46
  on there about six weeks. Six to eight weeks, depending on
• 1:39:49
  people making, it NCAA prelims and all that sort of thing this
• 1:39:53
  year. It's going on right now.
• 1:39:55
  Wow, that's a start is exciting. Holy cow out about three weeks
• 1:39:58
  ago and yes, it's going to be a far better facility than
• 1:40:02
  anything we've had since I've been here.
• 1:40:04
  Now in North Carolina. Every track is Irwin.
• 1:40:06
  Belk track. Are you going to Rimmel tracker?
• 1:40:08
  No. That's okay.
• 1:40:09
  There's a story behind that that I don't want to get into too
• 1:40:12
  much, but he apparently offered to buy us a track years ago So
• 1:40:17
  the story goes and somebody turned it down.
• 1:40:20
  I think it was many years before I got here and that's that's the
• 1:40:24
  story I heard. But it's somebody recently
• 1:40:26
  confirmed that there's actually I'm no of all the details I had
• 1:40:31
  were correct. But generally.
• 1:40:33
  Yes, that is the case. Yeah, they're all having you
• 1:40:35
  build tracks. Like I had no clue.
• 1:40:37
  You know. Not from North Carolina.
• 1:40:38
  I didn't know there was built stores and then first couple
• 1:40:40
  times I'd go in for me to whatever I'm like Oh my they are
• 1:40:43
  all Irwin Belk and thank God. Love you Irwin Belk.
• 1:40:45
  By the way, we need more people. Like that in this world track
• 1:40:48
  and field. Thank you sir.
• 1:40:50
  I think he was a curse back into running the 880 in the 50s right
• 1:40:55
  they weren't running the 800 but I think he was a half mile or
• 1:40:58
  for UNC Chapel Hill back in the 50s probably around the time Jim
• 1:41:03
  Beatty was there maybe a little bit before him but he also has
• 1:41:07
  done a lot for what we would typically refer to as amateur
• 1:41:11
  sports in the u.s. So I think there's an Irwin Belk
• 1:41:14
  Road or Avenue at the Colorado Springs training.
• 1:41:17
  Her. So he's done a lot for track and
• 1:41:19
  field specifically but other we're auditioning amateur sports
• 1:41:23
  in the US and so yeah much credit to him.
• 1:41:27
  I think he was there in the early to mid 50's, if I'm not
• 1:41:29
  mistaken, we need Elon Musk and oh gosh, who's the Microsoft
• 1:41:36
  guy, Bill Gates, we need Bill Gates tracks, we need Elon Elon
• 1:41:40
  Musk, try. We need more back because that's
• 1:41:41
  going to be better for our society.
• 1:41:43
  So like I said, I don't make fun when I say it wasn't an Irwin
• 1:41:46
  Belk track because I just All props to him and helping out the
• 1:41:49
  specifically at Carolina, but even in Colorado Springs, what
• 1:41:52
  else we held healthy things grow, man.
• 1:41:54
  So really happy for the new facility and that's, that's a
• 1:41:56
  big deal. So that's, that's you could
• 1:41:59
  stamp it right there and be done.
• 1:42:00
  And that's a huge thing for you guys here.
• 1:42:02
  Yeah, a lot of people that aren't even track coaches or
• 1:42:05
  just administrators people from other schools have talked about.
• 1:42:08
  Wow, that's really going to help with recruiting and like you're
• 1:42:11
  right. It sure will.
• 1:42:13
  Because the facility in the past, hasn't been in the best of
• 1:42:16
  shape, isn't it? It goes back to 2010 was the
• 1:42:19
  last time it was resurfaced and for a few years has been falling
• 1:42:23
  off at this is going to be not just an improvement is going to
• 1:42:27
  be a complete 180 from what we've been dealing with.
• 1:42:31
  You've got to make sure your media team dress IDs.
• 1:42:34
  One of my favorite favorite videos ever is when they have
• 1:42:38
  the camera for the kids when they first come on to the track
• 1:42:41
  because the I mean if you ever want to know what new equipment,
• 1:42:45
  new track can do for a kid and their Finance and their Joy.
• 1:42:49
  Find out, find that video like Michigan did it when they first
• 1:42:53
  opened up their indoor and the kids come in these These are
• 1:42:55
  Michigan kids, right? So they've had it all and you
• 1:42:57
  know Michigan has every budget in the world so it's not like
• 1:42:59
  they were they didn't have good things.
• 1:43:03
  You just see like kid in the candy store Christmas day like
• 1:43:06
  their heart just grows 10 times seeing this amazing feel it
• 1:43:10
  silly. So you guys make sure your
• 1:43:12
  information is IDs film. These kids, when they first see
• 1:43:15
  the, it's going to be amazing. Yeah, it's like All right, not
• 1:43:18
  only am I going to have this really really nice facility to
• 1:43:21
  train on which is going to cut down on my soft tissue issues.
• 1:43:25
  I'm going to be able to train more healthy.
• 1:43:27
  I'm going to be a perform better, I'm going to be able to
• 1:43:29
  host Meats, which is another major thing we have not had
• 1:43:33
  yeah, even hosted meet out here. I think in see there's 17 or 18
• 1:43:37
  years, it actually tell our guys surprisingly, there's a time
• 1:43:40
  that predates me here. There was a time before I even
• 1:43:43
  got here. But it's also demonstrative of a
• 1:43:52
  commitment from Administration. And from the school as a whole
• 1:43:56
  that, while we're being fully supported.
• 1:43:59
  In fact, one of the happiest days, I saw our guys was not
• 1:44:02
  just hearing about the track but the day they saw them breaking
• 1:44:08
  grounds like okay, it's real, yeah, it's real.
• 1:44:11
  Yes, it's real. Oh yeah, you can say it all you
• 1:44:13
  want. If they know shovel in the
• 1:44:15
  ground. Not tap, it's just yeah.
• 1:44:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of, like, when we
• 1:44:19
  recruit kids to write, it's like, okay, look, I know you say
• 1:44:22
  you're interested in my school, but until you apply or send me
• 1:44:25
  some transcripts, it ain't real. You just tuck it right now.
• 1:44:29
  They're just you maybe just offer shopping somehow.
• 1:44:32
  We're I right? That's right.
• 1:44:33
  Well man, I'm excited for you guys.
• 1:44:35
  Like I said, healthy things grow.
• 1:44:37
  So when we hear about new facilities or, you know,
• 1:44:39
  additional coaching members or additional scholarship members,
• 1:44:43
  scholarship numbers for yet that that's always a positive.
• 1:44:46
  There is literally no - that comes from that.
• 1:44:48
  So really, really pumped for you guys and your program.
• 1:44:50
  Yeah, and we appreciate our support from Administration and
• 1:44:55
  we had some big big donor step in recently like big in a big
• 1:44:59
  way. In a way, let's do most
• 1:45:01
  historical for UNC Asheville and all it.
• 1:45:04
  Sometimes takes is all right, we need this amount, somebody gets
• 1:45:08
  it started. Somebody else came after
• 1:45:11
  somebody else has come after that.
• 1:45:12
  It's like I need to see somebody else do something sir.
• 1:45:15
  And when they see it other people just Jump in, and we're
• 1:45:18
  getting close to every bit of what we need.
• 1:45:22
  It's hard, being a turn being first, Sometimes, you know, we
• 1:45:25
  all like to think that we're leaders and we would just jump
• 1:45:27
  in, but sometimes we need someone else to jump in, like,
• 1:45:29
  oh, okay. I guess I can do it too then.
• 1:45:31
  So that's awesome, man. Wow, yeah, very much so yeah,
• 1:45:34
  we're very excited about that and our kids are like, severe
• 1:45:37
  excited. There's excited again about
• 1:45:39
  training competing on that facility, but also the
• 1:45:41
  commitment that Jan encounter, I had like director and our
• 1:45:45
  Administration in general. And again, the Was a whole the
• 1:45:48
  saying your school sometimes is judged by, not just the quality
• 1:45:53
  of your education. Certainly that's the main factor
• 1:45:56
  but also the quality of your overall facilities and that was
• 1:45:59
  sort of a sore thumb and it's not going to be that now man.
• 1:46:03
  Joel, man, that is awesome. I love here and that's a great
• 1:46:07
  kind of Mike drop at the end of the podcast, man.
• 1:46:09
  I love hearing about new facilities for programs because
• 1:46:12
  we deserve it. I mean, it's amazing to me when
• 1:46:15
  we talk about coaches, when they get, Act extensions or pay
• 1:46:18
  raises, or they get a new job or new facilities.
• 1:46:22
  And, you know, sometimes we get a little, I'm not sure what the
• 1:46:26
  right word is here, but we get a little bit like, we're just
• 1:46:29
  tracked, you know, it's it'd be nice, but we don't need it and
• 1:46:33
  it's like, man, you deserve it. You touch so many more athletes
• 1:46:37
  than a lot of other sports and this isn't a comparison thing.
• 1:46:39
  I want your tennis facility to be amazing.
• 1:46:41
  I want your baseball facility to be amazing.
• 1:46:43
  But for track, we have sometimes a To humbleness to us.
• 1:46:49
  We need to know that we're 6 Sports.
• 1:46:51
  We a touch a lot of athletes wear important.
• 1:46:55
  The sport of track and field is important as a base to every
• 1:46:58
  other sport out there. So when Cohen programs like
• 1:47:02
  yourself get something that I think you deserve which is all
• 1:47:04
  of it it just makes us so happy here, man, this is so awesome.
• 1:47:08
  Yeah, like I said I love to hear about it when I hear and it has
• 1:47:13
  nothing to do with me but when I hear about some really
• 1:47:16
  successful coach in our sport, Getting some massive contract.
• 1:47:19
  Yes. Or Marshall adding their men
• 1:47:22
  immense? Yes, I've been how, how many
• 1:47:24
  programs are adding Men's Track? When's the last time that
• 1:47:28
  happened? You know, Steve, we've had a
• 1:47:30
  few. It's funny.
• 1:47:30
  That is one of my favorite things to post on our LinkedIn
• 1:47:33
  account for Gil Athletics. Because I always like, hey, when
• 1:47:36
  when when one wins we all win when one celebrates, we all
• 1:47:38
  celebrate. So like Marshall was the last
• 1:47:40
  one I did, but we've had a couple programs that have added
• 1:47:43
  here lately. Those don't get as much Pub as
• 1:47:45
  the ones that drop. Maybe for obvious reasons.
• 1:47:48
  I don't know. You know I think anytime someone
• 1:47:50
  drops we need to bring the hammer down.
• 1:47:52
  Russell Dinkins, shout out to you man.
• 1:47:54
  Another Gil podcast Alum who really fights hard for advocacy
• 1:47:57
  for track and field specifically as a minority representation on
• 1:48:01
  college campuses. But so maybe I'm glad that was
• 1:48:03
  get Pub because they need it because they need to be hammered
• 1:48:06
  for making the wrong decisions, but but we had a few and you're
• 1:48:10
  right. I love that you brought up
• 1:48:11
  Marshall because what a program with a school.
• 1:48:14
  Thank goodness. That they are bringing back
• 1:48:16
  Men's Track & Field. As soon as they did, I tagged
• 1:48:19
  our Adia Troy, my alma mater and said, hey, can we add minced?
• 1:48:23
  And we have, we don't have indoor there, they can we had
• 1:48:25
  men's indoor now because Marshals now in the same
• 1:48:27
  conference is Troy. So I was like, Hey, see, they
• 1:48:29
  can do it. Like, you know, we're supposed
• 1:48:30
  to be the biggest baddest are there perhaps?
• 1:48:33
  Yes. There were there indoor men's
• 1:48:34
  programs. So, yeah.
• 1:48:36
  See that come back 100%. Absolutely.
• 1:48:39
  Want to see opportunities grow for women and men.
• 1:48:42
  Amen. And can I just say something to
• 1:48:44
  what you said? Like how underappreciated our
• 1:48:46
  sport is? Sport is the sport that other
• 1:48:49
  sports to find athleticism by payment, whether you're a
• 1:48:53
  basketball and there's tremendous players, basketball
• 1:48:56
  football. There's there's great athletes
• 1:48:58
  in every sport, but every other sport when they talk about,
• 1:49:02
  who's an athlete, is someone who can run fast or jump or throw or
• 1:49:09
  all those. Our sport is the definition of
• 1:49:13
  athleticism for every other sport.
• 1:49:14
  So we have the we think by Biased.
• 1:49:17
  Of course, we have the best athletes in sports, is a
• 1:49:21
  weightlifting, would be in. There are certainly some
• 1:49:22
  footballs and there's great athletes in so many sports.
• 1:49:25
  I don't mean to under underestimate anybody, but other
• 1:49:29
  sports Define athleticism by what our sport is.
• 1:49:36
  Joel, it's rare that the last 10 minutes of these podcasts,
• 1:49:39
  because they go for so long, where an hour and 50 that the
• 1:49:43
  last 10 minutes is the fire. That that, that conversation
• 1:49:47
  right there about growing and facilities and coaches and
• 1:49:49
  athleticism. And Marshall that that this is
• 1:49:53
  the part of the podcast. I hope everybody made it to
• 1:49:54
  because this is was an important part for you to hear out there
• 1:49:57
  as college and high school and Club.
• 1:49:59
  Track and field coach has, man, that was a great way to wrap us
• 1:50:02
  up today here, man. Yeah, that was that was it your
• 1:50:04
  passion comes through Clearly my loving Allah.
• 1:50:08
  Oh yeah. You got to speak out for your
• 1:50:09
  sports and that's right. That's right.
• 1:50:11
  A sport. Tremendous athletes coaches.
• 1:50:14
  And I just feel like it's very underappreciated sometimes.
• 1:50:17
  So, will you guys just run jumper throw, right?
• 1:50:19
  Yeah. There's a lot of complexity to
• 1:50:21
  make be successful in those things.
• 1:50:23
  That's so underestimated in the things that takes to be
• 1:50:26
  successful. That's right, that's it, man.
• 1:50:29
  So that's it man. Hey Joel.
• 1:50:31
  Thank you so much, man. You know, one of the most
• 1:50:34
  important and valuable All things that you can give me and
• 1:50:37
  us here. Gil FedEx is your time, you
• 1:50:38
  know, you're busy, you're in the middle of fall training.
• 1:50:41
  Getting ready for indoor season and a facility coming along,
• 1:50:44
  there are a lot of things tugging at your time.
• 1:50:46
  So I'm always appreciative when guys and gals like yourself,
• 1:50:50
  join us here on the podcast. It's a, it's a hefty thing.
• 1:50:52
  It's two hours. There's no softball in this
• 1:50:55
  thing. You've put together put time
• 1:50:56
  commitment to be here in the podcast.
• 1:50:57
  And so Joel, I'm so so grateful for you being such just this
• 1:51:02
  year authentic, humble, self man, you Absolute rock star.
• 1:51:07
  I'm just so thankful that you're with us here today.
• 1:51:09
  Oh my God. Appreciate you.
• 1:51:10
  Having me was honored just that you would even be interested is
• 1:51:13
  in something I might say or be able to contribute.
• 1:51:17
  So hopefully somebody got sick because I get a lot out of the
• 1:51:19
  air in the podcast. Did you put on in the past as I
• 1:51:22
  told you earlier? So I appreciate what you do and
• 1:51:27
  it's always interesting to hear someone's Journey.
• 1:51:29
  It's not it's everyone has a different journey to get where
• 1:51:32
  they're at. That's it man.
• 1:51:33
  That's exactly it in. Each one of those Journeys is
• 1:51:38
  important because of how different they are.
• 1:51:41
  You know, from college dropouts that become great college
• 1:51:44
  coaches from non track. People who fall in love with it
• 1:51:48
  as a college become a high school teacher just so they can
• 1:51:50
  coach, coach coach track. I mean there's there's so many
• 1:51:53
  different ways to get where we are and it's all about servant
• 1:51:56
  leadership at the end of the day and you are a great example of
• 1:51:59
  that Joel. Thank you so much.
• 1:52:01
  Thank thank you for being here today.
• 1:52:03
  And listening, hopefully received value from today's
• 1:52:05
  podcast. As if you did here, I'm gonna
• 1:52:07
  ask for a small favor. I don't ask this very much share
• 1:52:11
  this with someone else just one, you know, you've got to put it
• 1:52:14
  on social media. I don't care even though, you
• 1:52:16
  know how much I love social media, just email this episode
• 1:52:21
  text, this episode. Just the one person that needs
• 1:52:24
  to hear Joel story. Because Joel story is important
• 1:52:27
  and I think other people like yourself will receive Al you
• 1:52:30
  from it. So, thanks again for being here
• 1:52:31
  this week. I hope you'll join us next week
• 1:52:33
  and received value when we bring another awesome.
• 1:52:35
  Um coach another great track and field coach to you, here on the
• 1:52:38
  gulf attics connections podcast, have an awesome day.
• 1:52:48
  Thanks Mike what an incredible journey coach has been on so
• 1:52:51
  awesome to hear their story in their own words, tremendous
• 1:52:54
  proof of the positive effect coaches, make on a daily basis.
• 1:52:57
  Help us spread the word of this. Great journey by sharing on your
• 1:53:00
  favorite social, media channel. And don't forget to take a
• 1:53:03
  minute to rate and review the podcast.
• 1:53:05
  You just might get a shout out on a future episode.
• 1:53:07
  That's it for today. Join us next week, when we'll
• 1:53:10
  connect you with another amazing courage.