Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Balancing Patient Care and Financial Wellness: Robert Massie's Dual Focus | Nursing Home Series | Senior Care

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Balancing Patient Care and Financial Wellness: Robert Massie's Dual Focus | Nursing Home Series | Senior Care · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:21
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:24
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:26
My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and today's guest is Robert Massey,
0:31
Vice President of Post Acute Care at Holzer Health System, a
0:36
network of assisted living, home health and Hospice facilities in
0:40
Gallupolis in Jackson, OH. They help seniors retain their
0:44
sense of independent living in a safe, comfortable and home like
0:48
environment that builds and improves on their physical and
0:52
social well-being. When it comes time to make the
0:54
important decision of how to care for yourself or a loved 1,
0:58
you can feel comfortable with Holzer's communities that
1:00
provide many amenities, including a comfortable, home
1:03
like environment along with security, independence, privacy
1:07
and companionship. Robert himself is working on a
1:11
new start up called 5 for Health, where the focus is on
1:14
providing financial education to healthcare workers.
1:17
And we're going to learn a lot more about that now before we
1:20
get into all that good stuff. Today, our episode is brought to
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AD Back benefitsagency.com. Now back to our guest today, the
1:53
vice president of post Acute Care at Holzer Health System,
1:57
Robert Massey. I appreciate you making the time
1:59
to Share your story today. Sure, I appreciate the invite.
2:03
All right, so Robert, let's start towards the beginning.
2:07
Tell us about the journey that led you getting into the
2:11
healthcare industry in the first place.
2:13
Well, I, I've taken a, a, a different path than most.
2:17
I actually in high school, I went to a vocational school and,
2:21
and studied welding there. Then I graduated high school
2:25
and, and went into a construction and I did that for
2:28
about 5 years, working my way up to concrete foreman for a
2:33
Kokosian construction company. And then that was in 2008.
2:38
And there was a, quite a big a recession that happened at that
2:41
time. So I got married in on September
2:44
6th and on September 8th, I, I was laid off.
2:47
So I had to shift and kind of bounced around a little bit for
2:52
a couple years before deciding to go back to college.
2:56
You know, even though I didn't take that traditional path.
2:58
And, and a lot of times people don't think they can go back to
3:01
college if they went to vote Votech school.
3:03
But that isn't true. I'm, I'm an example of that.
3:09
So kind of, I wasn't sure exactly.
3:11
I thought about teaching and then I, I got into some
3:16
healthcare classes and I really love business and, and, and
3:21
leadership. And I knew that was an
3:23
opportunity, at least in my area in southern Ohio that, that, you
3:27
know, I could be close to business.
3:31
So I, I end up getting 2 bachelor's degrees and a
3:35
gerontology, gerontology certificate.
3:38
And then I set for my nursing home administration test and,
3:41
and then I had to start back over again.
3:45
Really. You know, when I got in the
3:47
healthcare back at the bottom and worked my way back up, you
3:50
know, financially, I was working part time for minimum wage for
3:55
Holzer at the time, installing the lifeline units, the little
3:59
units. If you fall and help, I can't
4:01
get up and make the phone call. And then I transitioned to a, a,
4:05
a long term care company and I was able to, you know, become an
4:12
administrator there. Traveled across the state
4:16
filling in while as an interim administrator for, for buildings
4:21
that, you know, that was without an administrator at the time.
4:25
But then I came back to Holzer in 2018 as an administrator of
4:31
the skilled nursing facility and then in March of 2020 became the
4:35
vice president of Post Secure Care.
4:38
So we've got a lot more of your story to get into, but we've
4:41
already hit on some really interesting elements so far that
4:44
I'd like to dig into a little bit more.
4:47
As you were describing, you took sort of a non traditional path
4:51
for somebody who's in your role now, right?
4:53
You studying vocational tech, they studied welding, got out of
4:58
high school, you went into construction.
5:00
That's going well. And then the rug gets pulled out
5:04
two days after you get married because we're in the midst of a
5:07
recession. Somebody says, sorry, buddy, you
5:10
don't have a job anymore, and you've got to figure out what am
5:15
I going to do? And I think most people in this
5:19
position probably would have continued to try to stay in the
5:23
field that they already knew, right?
5:25
You had some experience. You'd done welding.
5:27
You were in construction for several years.
5:30
But you make the decision to do something that's completely
5:33
unfamiliar to you and I'm going to guess probably felt really
5:37
uncomfortable at the time. Is that right?
5:40
Very much so, yes. You get the imposter syndrome a
5:44
lot, you know, walking back on a college campus again, you know,
5:50
really in high school it, it seemed like a only reason I went
5:53
to high school was to eat my lunch.
5:54
You know, I wasn't the great, greatest student, you know how.
5:59
And I thought my, my path was going to be in construction and,
6:03
and, and then you just pivot. You know, I, I think it's, I
6:08
think it's important to always be able to pivot, no, no matter
6:11
where you are or what stage in life that you're in, just
6:15
because I see, we see too many people who will get into a rut
6:19
and then that's what they do for the rest of their life, because
6:22
that's what they always, you know, were And it's it.
6:24
I don't think that's necessarily the case.
6:26
You know you got to if you have a passion, you should, you
6:29
should go and and try it. So walk me through that decision
6:34
making process a little bit more.
6:36
You had done construction for years.
6:39
Now you're without a job. You're recently married.
6:41
What led you to think, hey, I was a terrible student in high
6:46
school, but now several years later, I'm going to get back
6:48
into it. I'm going to go get my college
6:49
degree. Like help me bridge that gap
6:52
there. Sure.
6:56
I think a lot of it was. I knew I was.
7:00
I knew I was, I was better than than what I've been the effort I
7:04
put forth in high school. So, you know, that was always
7:08
kind of in the back of my mind. You know, it's like you see a
7:12
lot of people and, and they're going to college and starting a
7:15
career and, and college is kind of different.
7:19
I think they had the perception of colleges is a little bit
7:22
different even now than it was just 10 or 15 years ago where
7:26
people were coming up at, at my age and I'm 38, you know, it, it
7:31
was, it was a push to go to college.
7:33
You know, everyone should go to college.
7:34
Whereas now that that tide's changing a little bit.
7:38
So, so I don't know if it was a little bit of that, but you
7:41
know, I just, I always wanted to be in some sort of leadership
7:44
and I, I don't, I don't think it ever really mattered to me what
7:49
that industry was. The passion for me is is
7:52
leadership in business. OK.
7:56
And so if you hadn't been laid off from your construction job,
8:00
it's quite possible you would have stayed there and kind of
8:03
moved up the the ranks there, but that that option was no
8:07
longer available. And so you said, all right, dust
8:10
myself off, I'm going to go back to college.
8:12
And while you were taking these courses, you sort of discovered
8:15
this interest in this passion in the healthcare field.
8:19
Yes, I, I, I had a couple classes that that in, in
8:24
healthcare and and it was something that I never really
8:27
thought of I guess prior to taking some of those, those
8:32
classes of being able to, you know, satisfy that business, you
8:39
know, want with healthcare. I always kind of, I, I assume, I
8:44
guess looked at business from, well, it's got to be in some
8:47
sort of an industry, you know, is that manufacturing,
8:50
construction, whatever. But there, you know, I just
8:53
never realized there was the business side to healthcare like
8:57
it is that combined. I, I had some accounting classes
9:02
and that, that really caught my attention too and being able to
9:05
kind of put those two together, it just, I thought was just a
9:10
perfect fit. And, you know, I was a lot
9:14
better student at, you know, starting back at that 2425 years
9:18
old married with payments than I, I was in high school when it
9:23
was all free. So I just really just just put
9:27
my arms around it and and took off It's.
9:30
It's a great story that we've heard so far and we're we're
9:33
going to continue here. So I think you've been with
9:37
Holzer for over 10 years, is that right?
9:40
Since 2018 I did I I wasn't within 2014 and had a had a a
9:46
few years skip there and then back in 18 full time.
9:50
Gotcha. And what is it that drew you to
9:53
Holzer? What do you like about the
9:55
organization? Well, Holzer's a a nonprofit
10:01
health system that is hyper focused on the community.
10:06
You know, I, I've been in for profit companies and, and this
10:10
is my first not-for-profit company and just a community
10:15
focus from leadership down from the, the, the board of directors
10:19
is community based. So there's, it's just a huge
10:23
focus around the community. It's independent steel, which is
10:27
almost like a dinosaur from today's age.
10:30
You know, there's constantly hospital systems, health systems
10:34
being gobbled up by larger entities.
10:37
And, you know, we're trying our best to stay independent, just
10:41
stick to, to make sure we're all localized.
10:44
And that, that to me is, is a, a huge point.
10:48
And, and they always, you know, leadership always talks about,
10:52
you know, we serve 2 purposes, care for patients and we provide
10:57
jobs for the community. Alright.
11:00
Give us a 10,000 foot view of what Holzer does, like tell us
11:06
sort of the different departments and then we'll go a
11:08
little bit deeper specifically into what you do at post acute
11:11
care. Sure, Holzer has two hospitals,
11:15
one in Jackson, one in Gallup. List multiple clinics.
11:19
You know, throughout our, our area, we provide care from from
11:26
birth all the way through primary care, surgery,
11:33
outpatient services, including new therapies to post acute care
11:38
with skilled nursing facility, assisted living, home health and
11:42
Hospice. So it's really a complete health
11:44
system which is also a little bit unique.
11:48
You know, a lot of times you see health systems that maybe are
11:52
more focused on outpatient care or acute care or to or, you
11:57
know, post acute entities are usually solely in post acute.
12:02
Whereas we, we have, you know, we, we go from, from all the way
12:07
from the from cradle to to the the end of life.
12:12
And so structurally Holzer's a nonprofit, there's sort of these
12:18
different arms of of the services are do they each
12:22
operate independently of each other?
12:24
Like is post acute care kind of it's own thing?
12:27
It's sort of self-contained. Well, those are things that we
12:32
we work diligently on and you're trying to break those silos
12:36
down. There's had there have, you
12:38
know, as any organization that's that's a little larger in
12:41
nature. There's, there's different
12:42
silos. I think Holzer over the past
12:45
four or five years and I've really focused on breaking all
12:48
those silos down to where we're one United Health system.
12:52
And and while we may report up to, you know, different C-Suite
12:57
leaders, however, you know, the C-Suite works closely together,
13:03
which then also all filters down through the vice president's
13:06
directors, administrators. It's really a tight network of
13:13
Co workers, you know, for a for a health system that's that's
13:16
larger. OK.
13:17
So let's talk more specifically about the post acute care
13:21
division that you're the VP of. Explain to us the different
13:26
services that you guys provide under that umbrella.
13:29
Sure. So we have two assisted livings,
13:32
one in Jackson, one in Galpless, and they provide, you know,
13:38
really a nonce. What would kind of be considered
13:41
non skilled care. We where it's a important style
13:45
living. We do have nurses and, and, and
13:49
nursing aides as well as dietary departments, housekeeping, but
13:54
it's, it's for a little lower acuity type, you know, say
13:58
someone's just needing a little bit of help or maybe they can't
14:01
live at home anymore. They just need some help with,
14:05
you know, their, their AD LS of, you know, dressing, walking,
14:09
showering, etcetera. So we have that care.
14:12
And then also inside of the assisted living home health and
14:15
Hospice can come in to help those patients.
14:19
Then we kind of, we move into the skilled nursing facility
14:23
where the traditionally known as a nursing home where we are a 41
14:29
bed, all private rooms facility that really cares for that
14:36
higher acuity level resident that can no longer be at home by
14:40
themselves. Also in that nursing home, we do
14:45
have short term care where we have physical therapy,
14:48
occupational therapy and speech therapy.
14:51
So kind of example would be if you know someone that had an
14:57
accident at home, like a, a broken hip or something, you
15:00
know, they receive care at the hospital.
15:02
They would come to us for twenty 30-40 days of rehab and we we
15:07
have them the home, get them back back to their home.
15:10
So then that's that's our three facilities.
15:14
Then from there we also have home health where we provide in
15:19
home services including skilled nursing aid care as well as
15:26
physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy in
15:29
the homes. Those those are for people that
15:31
are considered homebound. So we come to them, provide
15:36
great service in their home trying to to, you know,
15:40
rehabilitate them back to becoming independent again.
15:45
We provide those services in southern Ohio counties as well
15:50
as Mason County, West Virginia. And then we also have that
15:55
Hospice service, which is for end of life hospices, someone
15:59
that has a terminal diagnosis of six months or less to live.
16:03
And that's where we provide, we provide care in the home or in a
16:08
nursing home. And then also we, we have a
16:11
Hospice room in our hospital and you know, providing that, that
16:17
palliative care and end of life care for the patient.
16:21
And then also that support, emotional, emotional and
16:26
spiritual support for the families which we follow, the
16:30
families, you know, past, past the death of their loved ones.
16:36
So that could go on for months or even even years that we have
16:39
support groups for them. Couple of follow up questions
16:43
for you. The home help that you described
16:46
sounds mostly like skilled care that's being provided.
16:49
I, I know that there's some services where it's kind of,
16:53
it's more unskilled help. They come in and they kind of
16:56
help you with things around the house.
16:58
They're there for companionship. Do do you also offer that level
17:01
of care as well? We do not and, and there is a,
17:06
a, a difference between skilled and then like you, you said the,
17:09
the unskilled of kind of home makers.
17:12
You know, our focus is that, you know, we're trying to be there
17:16
when you have a deficit. We want to try to try to get you
17:19
back to to being independent again, and that's through
17:24
skilled nursing care and and therapy.
17:28
And the follow up service that you provide to families after
17:34
end of life of their loved 1, is that common with Hospice care?
17:40
Is that something that's a little bit special that you guys
17:42
do? Well, all Hospice agencies are
17:46
supposed to have bereavement care and I'm sure those, you
17:52
know, change between agencies. It's something that we've really
17:55
been focusing on even more recently with, you know, in
18:00
addition to a new staff member who is, that's their sole focus
18:04
is that bereavement piece, because we feel that that's such
18:07
an important need. You know, Hospice care is, it's
18:12
a, it's a great service, but a lot of times it's a service that
18:17
that is underutilized. And, and we feel like there's a,
18:21
a huge opportunity for us to step in and help those families
18:25
because Hospice care is just not about the patient.
18:28
It's also about the family members as well.
18:31
So. True.
18:33
How would you say that what you guys do at Holzer is maybe a bit
18:38
different than what some other similar facilities and and
18:42
companies do? Sure.
18:43
Yeah, yeah. Again, going back to that, that
18:48
community mindset, you know, we're, we're a not-for-profit
18:54
organization that, that wants to support the community.
18:57
And, and that's our, that's our mission is to support the, the
19:01
community that we serve. It's, it's not all about trying
19:05
to grow and be the largest provider for us.
19:10
We want to be really, really good in our community and
19:15
providing that one-on-one care, making those those small impacts
19:19
in each person's life because, you know, we are in Southern
19:23
Ohio where it is a smaller community and you live and work
19:26
with people, you know, and, and not only our patients, our
19:32
patients, but you know, they could also be our friend, our
19:35
childhood friends. So it's that connection, I think
19:38
that that we have that that makes us unique and different.
19:41
And and we're we're all local versus you get you get other
19:47
larger or for profit entities that you know, their their
19:51
headquarters could be in another state.
19:53
And you know, we're all right here in Jackson, Gaia, Athens,
19:58
Meg's area, Mason County, West Virginia, we're all right here.
20:02
I think that's you. Grew up in this area as well.
20:05
Yep, yeah, Yep. And, and everyone, everyone on
20:12
the C-Suite, like I said, also with the, our board, you know,
20:16
they're all local, they're local business owners or, or community
20:21
members. So I think that's the, that's
20:24
the separator for us. Now, Robert, I see that you were
20:29
the administrator there at Holdser for several years before
20:33
moving up to Vice President. Tell me a little bit about what
20:38
your role was like as the administrator and how it's
20:42
changed now that you're the vice president of the whole division.
20:47
Sure. You know, administrator they're
20:50
they're the day-to-day, you know, overseer of that facility,
20:55
a lot of interactions with staff members, residents, daily
21:00
interactions, you know, you're, you're overseeing, you have a
21:04
department head team that you're overseeing, but you're also, you
21:07
know, on the front line with with, you know, those nursing
21:11
aids, dietary aids, cooks, nurses, etcetera.
21:16
So you're really you're really just trying to funnel, you know,
21:20
everything through you and making sure you know, from a
21:24
regulatory standpoint, you're meeting requirements within a
21:27
customer service standpoint. So it's just that day-to-day
21:31
operations of that facility clinically, financially and
21:37
operationally and and then my, my role now is, is very similar.
21:42
It's just at a little bit higher level with, with more, you know,
21:47
the three facilities and, and two agencies reporting,
21:50
reporting up to me. But you know, really the this,
21:53
this, it's the same concept. You know, from an operational
21:56
standpoint, you know, how are we doing, what can we do?
22:00
What's our barriers, How do we remove those barriers and and
22:04
really trying to just support the administrators and directors
22:08
of of the division. What I think's interesting about
22:12
your path, Robert, is you know, as you started over again,
22:15
right, you started a minimum wage job in the healthcare
22:19
system and worked your way up through the ranks.
22:23
I mean, it's sort of the classic, I started in the
22:25
mailroom kind of a thing. And, you know, now I'm the VP
22:29
and, and, you know, continuing to move up.
22:31
I'm curious to hear which transition for you was maybe the
22:38
most challenging. Honestly, I think this, this,
22:46
this position I, I hadn't spent, you know, time in, in nursing
22:52
homes and assisted livings operate pretty similar to
22:55
nursing homes. However, I, I did not have AI,
22:59
didn't have, have hardly any experience in operations from a
23:02
whole health and Hospice standpoint.
23:04
So there was that also I received the promotion March of
23:11
2020, which also correlated with something else that was COVID.
23:19
So my timing is either terrible or perfect, I'm not totally
23:23
sure. So there was that piece, but it
23:26
was just a, it was a, you go from an administrator where you
23:32
are really in every, every aspect of every, you know, every
23:38
detail to where then you step up to another level.
23:44
And, and that you're, you're, you're not, you're not in, I
23:48
guess the, you know, proverbial weeds, right?
23:50
You're, you're look, you're looking at things at a little
23:52
higher level. So that was a tough transition
23:56
to not be able to be everywhere at every time and, and, and
24:00
being able to step back, let the managers manage, they funnel
24:06
information that needs to be to me and then I, you know, go with
24:12
it from there. So that was a challenging and as
24:14
well as I think it was hard from, you know, I was used to,
24:20
you know, being with the residents every day.
24:21
So, you know, I would go down the hall and and round and know
24:25
every residence name where it's, it's a little different now just
24:29
because I'm not in that in those facilities every day.
24:32
So that that was also a little challenging as well.
24:37
Do you miss that interaction with the patients?
24:41
Yes, I, I do and I still get it some again, it's on a smaller
24:46
level when I when I'm in the facilities.
24:49
But but those, those everyday interactions and just the
24:53
connection that you get really when when someone comes to a
24:57
nursing home or assisted living, they truly become part of your
25:01
family. And that's kind of a cliche
25:03
thing a lot of people say, but it's, it's true.
25:06
There's, there's many times where you're talking to those
25:10
residents more than you are your own mother or father just for
25:14
the simple fact you're there every day, right.
25:16
So that part's, yeah, that that part's hard.
25:20
Yeah, Let's talk a little bit about COVID.
25:24
I mean, you get a promotion, right as the world is unwinding
25:31
and like you're in the middle of it, right?
25:34
I mean, some of the most at risk locations, populations were
25:40
exactly where you were. What?
25:45
Tell me about this. What what, what was what was
25:46
this like for you? March 2020.
25:50
It it was, it was crazy. It is the only way to put it.
25:53
And I remember, you know, we got in March, since when?
25:57
Middle of March and it was like 3 days in a row.
26:00
Day one, we get a notification from the Ohio Department of
26:03
Health that, you know, you need to screen visitors, you know,
26:09
and for temperatures, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic, blah,
26:14
blah, blah, like kind of outlining what, what, what COVID
26:17
is. And then the next day, those are
26:21
requirements then changed again. So, and then the Friday we
26:26
completely shut down all visitation.
26:28
So we went from kind of like warning people to, and we're
26:32
going to put in some safeguards to completely shutting it down
26:35
in three days. And then after that it was just
26:38
constantly a change and, and, and whirlwind.
26:43
You're, you're, I don't even know how it's hard to even
26:46
explain to see for someone that wasn't involved, it just how
26:51
much things change, how quickly the uncertainty, the unknown,
26:56
you know, we were trying our very best with what information
26:59
that we had at that time and it was just challenging.
27:06
Yeah. You know, I had the opportunity
27:09
to interview lots of daycare centers.
27:11
And one of the challenges that they had is that the rules were
27:15
always changing and they had multiple departments that sort
27:19
of had jurisdictions, the Ohio Department of Job and Family
27:22
Services, Ohio Department of Health, one or two other ones in
27:27
there. And so they're getting different
27:28
information from different agencies on what they should be
27:31
doing and having to try to create a grid to try to make
27:35
sense of it all. I'm curious on your side,
27:38
obviously you're dealing with the, the rules are constantly
27:41
changing. What was, you know, supposed to
27:43
be the way to do it last week is now different this week.
27:46
Did you also have the issue of there being multiple departments
27:51
or agencies that are providing you insight or rules that you
27:56
need to follow? Yeah, yeah, somewhat.
27:59
We, we had CMS was kind of the overreaching overarching entity
28:05
and then then OD as and then low then also our local health
28:09
department. However, information was coming
28:11
out so frequently or when information would come out it
28:17
had to be immediately implemented.
28:20
Sometimes there was, there were communication gaps and we, you
28:29
know, it was hard to disseminate that to the families.
28:32
That one, I think it was by far the, the most challenging piece
28:36
is to tell a family member you can't visit in person any
28:42
longer, your loved one. And, and a lot of people didn't
28:46
understand that. And quite frankly, we didn't
28:48
understand it either. The, the, the repercussions from
28:52
that were very bad for a lot of people.
28:56
And you can imagine the, you know, as as much as we tried to
29:01
do internally to keep people's spirits up, how hard it was when
29:05
they could no longer see their son, their daughter, whoever
29:09
their grandkids, you know, they could only see them through a, a
29:14
glass window. And, you know, constantly we
29:18
would, you would walk by the room and you would see, you
29:21
know, the resident put their hand up against the glass and on
29:24
the other end was their family member and just tears coming
29:28
down. And, and that was hard.
29:31
And, and like I said, they didn't understand it.
29:34
And, and we're upset with us at times.
29:37
And, and it was it, that was that was the hardest thing.
29:43
And the, and what just didn't feel right out of the whole, the
29:48
whole pandemic and, and we were another thing too, is you, when
29:53
you have a COVID case, then you're, you're constantly moving
29:57
residents. You know, residents could have
29:58
been in their room for two or three years and have all their
30:03
things on the wall. And then you got to come in and
30:06
say, Hey, you tested positive. We have to move you over to, you
30:10
know, X hallway or whatever. And then then you're moving
30:16
people. I mean, we were, we were moving
30:17
people at 9/10/11 O clock at night, maybe doing 10 or 15 room
30:22
changes a day. And especially when, when we
30:26
had, we had a couple rounds of COVID in the facility and we
30:31
would go and we would put plastic barriers up.
30:36
And then then it may be an hour later someone else would test
30:40
positive and we would be tearing those barriers down and putting
30:43
new ones up. There was multiple days where we
30:46
would tear a wall down and build a new one two or three or four
30:49
times and it was just really challenging, really challenging
30:55
time. I think if there was ever any
31:00
doubt about the importance of human touch and human
31:04
connection, boy, did we learn the hard way just how important
31:11
that is. Yes, yeah.
31:13
I mean, we, we had, and again, as, as much as we tried, you
31:18
know, to, to try to keep people's spirits up, there were,
31:22
that we had, we had people that, you know, they just lost their,
31:25
their meaning to live. And you know why when you're,
31:31
when you're isolated virtually in a, in a building for who
31:35
knows how long and there was never any, there's never any end
31:38
date. And I know that was impossible
31:41
to have, but, but there was never an end date that people
31:44
could look forward to. You know, a lot of times we
31:46
would hear, well, we'll, you know, we'll change the curve in
31:51
six weeks or whatever. So then people would kind of
31:53
focus on the six weeks and then six weeks would come and we're
31:57
still under all these restrictions.
32:00
And, and so over time, it just really beat people down and
32:03
including staff. You know, staff had to see that
32:05
and staff had to work in full PPE and then 90 fives and face
32:09
Shields and going in and out of rooms constantly and, and it was
32:13
hard on staff. I'm curious to get your
32:16
perspective on this, Robert, because my thought process has
32:20
changed about how we handled the COVID pandemic over time.
32:24
At the beginning, I was very much in favor for being very
32:28
careful, taking all of these precautions, masking whatever we
32:32
can do because if we can save a life, I mean, once somebody
32:37
passes, there's no undo. Like you can't bring that person
32:40
back. But as I have seen and talked to
32:45
more people who were on the front lines and who experienced
32:49
this first hand and who saw the drop in mental health along with
32:59
the impact to the economy and business, I now wonder if we did
33:04
the right thing by being as careful as we were.
33:06
And I'm curious for somebody who got to see all parts of it,
33:10
what, what are your thoughts on that?
33:12
I think that's a a fair question.
33:14
And, and I think it's a, a question that a lot of people
33:17
have, you know, that at, at the time it, it seemed like the
33:22
right thing to do to an, to an extent, because there was just
33:29
unknown. I think when you're trying to
33:31
look, we're looking at this now, you know, hindsight's 2020 and
33:37
at the time, I just don't think we knew we were trying to do, we
33:42
were, we were acting on with the information that we had, which
33:45
was very little to none. However, I, I do think it's a, a
33:50
great opportunity and I hope that leaders are taking notice
33:54
of, of how the full impact of the pandemic and, and being able
34:02
to come up with a better game plan and action going forward
34:06
because we'll have other pandemics.
34:09
You know, that that's, that's not the last only one or the
34:12
last one. So hopefully we can look at this
34:14
and, and come out with some better, better outcomes from,
34:19
from an infection control safety, but then also to that
34:23
mental health piece. Because I, you know, we're still
34:27
even seeing it, you know, from, even from kids that, that
34:31
couldn't go to school, you know, that that interaction and just
34:35
the just a, a lower, lower mental health or, or maybe it's
34:42
more of a, a prevalence of mental health issues now that
34:46
people are dealing with. My wife's a speech therapist in
34:50
the local preschool here and in a few years since COVID, you
34:57
know, she repeatedly says how they see a lot more kids who
35:01
need help and more kids with more severe conditions.
35:05
And they've have nothing else to attribute it to other than these
35:09
were kids who were isolated for years during COVID and didn't
35:13
get noticed and didn't get the treatment and didn't get the
35:15
human interaction that they needed.
35:17
So I, I think you're, you're definitely on to something
35:20
there. You know, and go ahead.
35:22
And my, my daughter has speech apraxia and she was the one
35:27
that, you know, had to had to go online to speech therapy or, or
35:34
it was in person with a mask on and, and you can't do speech
35:38
therapy with a mask over your face.
35:40
So she's an example too. That was, you know, kind of set
35:43
back from, from just the timing of when she needed help.
35:48
So, you know, that's something that we're the pandemics, you
35:51
know, you know, officially ended.
35:54
However, those effects will last for several years.
35:58
Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm curious, Robert, to maybe
36:01
hear about a particular challenge that you either
36:05
personally or professionally have gone through, some lessons
36:09
that you learned going through it, and how you kind of came
36:11
through the other side of that. Sure.
36:15
You know, I think the hardest thing for me, you know, I've
36:19
been in leadership roles. You know, my very first one was
36:23
at the age of 21 in, in construction as a, as a foreman
36:27
from, and I was 21 and I had age ranges all the way up to the 60
36:31
plus years old. And then again as an
36:35
administrator after I went back to school and, and then that was
36:40
VP for me. It's, you know, leadership's
36:44
hard and for a long time, I think leaders, you know,
36:50
couldn't be vulnerable and shouldn't show any cracks in the
36:55
armor, if you will. And I, you know, I think it's
37:01
really hard to keep yourself in the right mental space from
37:06
leadership. And, and I have those times that
37:08
I'm very open and honest with, with all my people.
37:10
Like, you know, I, I ebb and flow from a mental state and,
37:17
and it's, it's important to put those safeguards in place.
37:22
You know, if it's, you know, reading, you know, business
37:28
leadership, self help books to, you know, journaling, listening
37:36
to podcast and you're really filling your mind with, with
37:39
goods, good things because your mind is truly a sponge and just
37:45
to, to help to keep yourself focused on what's important.
37:51
And I, I think that that is something I, to this day, I
37:54
still struggle with. I go through times where I'm
37:58
laser focused and there's nothing that can stop me to
38:02
times where then I, I just, I go down the, the, the Cliff and
38:07
find myself in a bad metal space.
38:09
And I know I'm not being a good leader at that point in time.
38:13
So it's really that trying to focus on, yeah, how do, how do
38:17
we stay up and remove the, the, the dips?
38:24
And you're never going to completely remove them always,
38:29
but how do you shorten the time that you're in the dip?
38:32
And I think that's the key, yeah.
38:35
Because we're all going to have those times.
38:37
There's that life's going to happen.
38:39
You know, it, it just is, and, and things are going to change
38:42
that you don't like, but it's, how do we shorten that time
38:45
frame? And, and, and to me, it's, it's,
38:47
again, it's that structure, it's a discipline.
38:51
It's, it's that reading, writing, focusing, listening to
38:54
things. And you just got to fill your
38:56
mind with the right things because it's so easy to join
39:01
everyone else at the water cooler and complain about
39:03
everything. And once you start doing that,
39:07
it's it is just a free fall to the bottom.
39:09
It just feeds on itself. It does.
39:12
It does. And you know, it's, it's kind of
39:15
like that stacking effect. You know, if you get yourself in
39:18
a, in a negative headspace, you are going to continue to stack
39:22
on top and on top for whatever reason to keep yourself there.
39:28
And I, I don't know why that is, but it's just that focus on
39:32
shortening that. You know, yeah, I thought a lot
39:36
about this same topic, too, Robert.
39:38
And the theory that I had shared with me, and it makes a lot of
39:41
sense, is, you know, we're biologically wired to look for
39:46
problems, right? If we woke up every day and
39:49
thought everything was rainbows and sunshine, we wouldn't be
39:52
trying to make things better. You know, some of us might not
39:55
get out of bed. And so in some ways, you know,
39:58
that drive to look for what's wrong is I think part of the
40:02
fuel that, you know, keeps us going and keeps us advancing is
40:06
the the human race. But you're right, there are
40:11
times when that biological imperative sort of runs away
40:16
with itself. And it's like you're not just
40:20
looking for a problem so that you can try to make things
40:22
better. Like your brain is just looking
40:24
for problems and everything. And all you see are problems.
40:27
And that's right when you start sort of spiraling down the
40:30
drain. And what I'm hearing you say is,
40:33
you know, particularly when you notice that happening to you,
40:36
how can you interrupt that pattern?
40:37
And for you, what you found are, Hey, I, I recognize that my mind
40:43
is a sponge. Let me find the podcasts that
40:46
are giving positive message and and uplifting.
40:50
Let me find the the YouTube videos, the books, the you know,
40:53
the other resources that can help to take my mind out of that
40:58
negative state and give it some some good positive fruit and
41:02
veggies you know to to feed on. Absolutely, absolutely.
41:06
I it's and, and I think you know, when you get yourself,
41:10
you, you can see yourself starting to spiral down and, and
41:14
it, it affects your mental physical, your and your, your
41:18
financial stay. You can get yourself completely
41:22
off track and it's, it's just trying to, to recognize when
41:30
that's when that's occurring. And then, and I'll tell you
41:33
another thing, it's that I have found that I do is when I'm
41:39
feeling really good and I'm, I'm hitting all my marks from
41:43
everything that like all those safeguards that I've put in
41:46
place with discipline. When you start feeling really
41:49
good, that's when it's easy to be like, well, I'll skip out on
41:53
reading, you know, my 20 pages tonight, or I'll skip out on
41:57
journaling XY and Z. And then you start doing those
42:00
things and then that's before you know it, you're going to
42:03
wake up and you're down in that pit again.
42:06
So it's, it's the you've got to focus just as much when you're
42:10
when you're up as when you're down.
42:13
And I think that's the key to shortening those those times of
42:17
of when you're just down and. You got to be more diligent
42:22
about sort of the preventative mental health care and not just
42:26
focusing on it when you're struggling.
42:29
That's a perfect way to put it, yeah.
42:32
I'm curious, you know, a lot of folks that I talked to,
42:35
different parts of the country, different industries, they talk
42:37
about how there's still a pretty tight labor market, hard to find
42:41
good people, hard to retain good people.
42:44
You oversee, you know, a staff of 200 folks.
42:47
I'm curious, what things have you tried and found success with
42:52
to find and hold on to those good folks?
42:56
Yeah, the labor market is very challenging and has been for
43:00
years in, in healthcare. You know, it, it was challenging
43:04
for for post acute care pre COVID and, and, and COVID speed
43:10
that up and you know, it, it, it goes back to I think to that,
43:17
that culture. I mean, you have to pay a
43:19
livable wage, a good wage because ultimately people, you
43:24
know, they do work for income. However, I think it's equally
43:29
important is to make sure you've got that culture right, you've
43:32
got those other benefits available.
43:36
You know, are we flexible with scheduling, You know, if someone
43:40
needs to, to, to leave early to go pick their child up, or are
43:43
we, are we flexible there? Do they need 3 twelves instead
43:46
of five eights or four 10s? You know, what can we do?
43:50
Even though the more flexible you get is a little harder
43:54
operationally because, you know, one change here causes, you
43:59
know, two other reactionary changes that have to occur.
44:02
But I think it's just you have to stay flexible.
44:06
You know why we can't offer everything that everywhere else
44:10
does, especially in big cities, You know, we can offer that
44:15
culture. We can offer, you know, that
44:17
commitment to the employee and, and being flexible.
44:20
I think that's truly the key and will be the key going forward
44:25
because people are are and I think the younger generation
44:29
are, are extremely driven by the work life balance piece as much
44:34
as they are anything else. And I think you saw that during
44:36
COVID and you saw you saw personal finance change.
44:40
You know, while there was some money coming in from stimulus,
44:44
people were using that to pay down debts.
44:46
They were using it to, you know, get their self in a better
44:50
financial position. And a lot of people, you know,
44:52
change jobs and took jobs that provided them more flexibility
44:57
or more time at home. And maybe they're foregoing some
44:59
of those purchases that they they weren't before.
45:04
And so that's really the key. And I think the key going
45:07
forward is just going to be how good can you be from a work life
45:10
balance standpoint for staff. And you know, Robert, I think
45:16
one of the interesting things about you in particular is it's
45:20
very clear to me how committed you are to your employees and
45:25
healthcare workers in general. Because now I want to shift
45:29
gears into your new startup, which is 5 for Health, which
45:34
folks can visit. It's it's very new, but you can
45:37
visit the website fithenumber4health.com.
45:40
And the whole purpose here is that you want to provide
45:45
financial education specifically to healthcare workers.
45:49
Tell us more about how this came about.
45:52
Sure, you know, it really came about right in the early days of
45:56
the pandemic and, you know, we were trying to to chase wages.
46:02
Wages were going up but, and, but still people, they still
46:06
weren't doing better, even though wages kept going up.
46:10
And and you, you look through, you know, in high school, we
46:13
didn't have, you know, education classes or personal or, or
46:17
personal finance classes. And I think there's just a, a,
46:22
a, a huge hole from a personal finance standpoint that, that,
46:28
you know, we can feel through education.
46:30
And, you know, people don't, if you don't realize how important
46:34
it is to start investing in your 4O1K or 4O3B early and how easy
46:40
it is to become a millionaire through your average everyday
46:44
job. And a lot of times you hear
46:48
that. Well, I'll invest later, but
46:51
that it's so important to get in, in, in your early ages and,
46:55
and let compounding interests work for you.
46:57
And, and then from an expense expense side, you know, just
47:04
tracking and budgeting and there's, there's just so much
47:06
opportunity. I think that, you know, we can,
47:10
we can help people from a financial standpoint, which also
47:14
ties back to that mental, mental health as well, because if the
47:19
number one stressor in life is always money.
47:21
And so you know, how, how can we stretch, you know, make your
47:25
dollar go farther and, and, and, and truly find, you know, the,
47:29
the big thing for me is, is the why, You know, what is the why
47:33
behind what you do? And you know, so if we start
47:38
with answering the why, what it, what's important to you?
47:42
What's your passion? Then we come back into the
47:45
finance piece and how does the finances support your why?
47:49
Because I think a lot of times again, we, we kind of, we get
47:52
off track, you know, maybe we get in a, in a bad mental,
47:58
mental space and, you know, start extending purchases or,
48:02
or, or stretching ourself too thin.
48:04
And then we can't move on from a job that we don't like.
48:07
Or, you know, we got to try to go and find a, a, a, a job that
48:14
pays better, even though we like where we're at.
48:17
And when it's, there's that hole in the financial education
48:21
literacy piece that I think so important.
48:25
And if I could just touch a little bit more on, on, you
48:28
know, those, those mottos as well as if you visit the
48:31
website, you'll see that we talk about the YA lot, but there's
48:36
also Winnie State motto that, you know, we use and we use it
48:41
where I'm at currently with Holzer.
48:43
And it's, you know, how do we break down big goals, big
48:48
visions into doable tasks to where we can reach and, and, and
48:56
I think that's, that's, that's exactly what, you know, we need
49:01
from a financial education piece as well.
49:04
So kind of start with a, a vision board and then sort of
49:07
break things down into smaller like quarterly, monthly, weekly
49:11
date. Is that kind of how you think
49:12
about it? For sure, yeah.
49:14
Yeah. So you start with a vision
49:15
board, you know, and you put, you know, what are your dreams,
49:18
passions on Or if it's business, what is it that you want to
49:21
achieve in, in the next 12 months and put it on a vision
49:24
board because if you can see it, it, it's so much more powerful
49:27
than than written words. So then from the vision board,
49:31
and then we break it down into what can we do monthly?
49:35
What's our monthly goals that's going to help us achieve that
49:37
vision? And then we break down the
49:40
monthly and to weekly tasks. What is it weekly that's going
49:44
to make us achieve that goal, which is going to make us
49:47
achieve our vision. And then and then further on
49:50
down to, to win each day. You know, what am I going to do
49:53
today? How am I going to win this day
49:57
that way? I'm, I'm on my path and I think
50:01
if you can break it down into days to, to where it's, it's,
50:07
it's tangible. You know, I today am going to do
50:11
XY and Z and I can win that day. That's going to keep me track,
50:17
on track to my goals, my vision and my future.
50:22
So ideally, how do you see this unfolding?
50:25
Do you see it being more one-on-one coaching?
50:28
Is it small group coaching? Is it having sort of contracts
50:34
with bigger hospital systems where you kind of get to present
50:39
these teachings to a larger organization?
50:43
Sure. Yeah.
50:44
So I, I see this and it's early stages, but I see this as as a
50:49
one-on-one coaching. And then also too from an
50:53
organizational benefit as well to where I'd go in and, and, and
50:59
talk with, you know, people at a larger scale.
51:03
But you know, really the, the, the route is, you know, that
51:06
one-on-one coaching, how can I impact, how can I help one
51:10
person with their, their finances?
51:12
That way they can reach their goal and and and their vision of
51:14
life. Yeah, I'm looking at your
51:17
website here and I see that there is a free guide that
51:22
people can download which will give you the five things you
51:26
need to get started on the path to financial freedom.
51:29
It it's looks like it's free. The only thing you're asking for
51:32
here is a first name and an e-mail address, Is that right?
51:35
That's correct, yes, yeah. And go on and, and download that
51:38
and, and then reach out to me. I'll be happy to follow up with
51:43
anybody. And again, it's a, it's a
51:44
personal passion to me. And I think that, you know, we
51:48
can help a lot of people through personal finance and not only,
51:52
not only just from a monetary standpoint, but overall in life
51:57
and, and, and as well, you know, help employers to, to try to
52:02
help take that stress off that person through education.
52:07
The website againfolksisphi4health.com,
52:12
that's FI the number 4, so not spelled out, FI the number 4,
52:17
health.com. If you Scroll down at the bottom
52:19
of the page, you'll see where you can download that free
52:21
guide. Robert, a couple more questions
52:25
for you. I'm curious, what is something
52:27
fun or interesting that most people wouldn't know about you?
52:32
Well, I'm kind of a, a boring guy, I guess.
52:38
You know, I, I've, I've taken a new passion into show cows and
52:45
I, you know, who knew that this was such a big thing?
52:48
But, you know, my son started to show heifers and now we are
52:54
starting to travel around. So I'm learning a lot about how
52:57
to put virtually makeup on cows and dress them up to where they
53:03
can go and parade around and, and.
53:05
So what does that look like in practice?
53:07
Is it like combing? Are there like oils that you put
53:10
on them? Yeah, it's, it's almost like
53:12
taking them to a beauty salon really.
53:14
You know, you got, you got to clip them, which is like give
53:18
them a, a haircut to you can dye their hair and put glue like
53:25
Hairspray. And it's a, it's a complete show
53:29
and there's people really good at it.
53:32
But it's, it's interesting. So you've set up a beauty parlor
53:36
somewhere there on property? For cows, yeah, at, at my in
53:40
laws, yeah, we have a, we have a washroom now.
53:42
So we're always washing them and and getting them pretty tough, I
53:47
guess. That's great.
53:49
And have you guys won any prizes?
53:51
Have you placed at all? Yeah.
53:54
So we we, we went to a couple of shows.
53:56
We were just brand new getting into it.
53:58
And you know, he he won bread and own steer.
54:04
So he had a steer that that was raised on the farm.
54:08
So he did win first with this. So he was excited about that.
54:13
Oh that's fun. Nice way to get started.
54:15
Yeah. Now you've mentioned that you
54:19
know a lot of books, podcasts, etcetera.
54:21
Very helpful for you both from a preventative healthcare, mental
54:26
health standpoint as well as you know when you're struggling a
54:29
bit more. Curious if you can give some
54:32
recommendations on things that have been helpful to you,
54:35
whether it's a book, a mentor, a podcast, anything kind of in
54:39
that umbrella. Sure.
54:41
You know, I really like to read like kind of biography style or
54:48
or memoir books, because that that's really what gives, you
54:52
know, I think lots about inspiration, right?
54:54
And if you've got something to aspire to, then you've always
54:59
got that hope. So you're always going to keep
55:00
driving again, when we start talking about that dip again, I
55:03
think it's because we lose hope. We lose our focus on what our
55:06
hope is. So I really like the memoirs.
55:09
You know, Shoe Dog was a a great book.
55:14
About Phil Knight. Phil Knight, Yeah, That was a
55:18
that was a a great one. I listened to a lot of, you
55:24
know, Ed Milett, I like Jocko and his extreme ownership, Jocko
55:29
Willonic and his extreme ownership books and Disney or
55:37
the ride of a lot of lifetime is Bob Iger's Journey.
55:43
That was another really awesome book for me.
55:47
I just read a lot. I've I've recently gotten into
55:51
the Savannah bananas craze and Jesse Cole.
55:58
So I'm I'm finishing up. I just read find your yellow
56:01
tux, which is a great book and I'm finishing up his other one
56:05
right now. But I mean, that's that's where
56:08
I get, you know, inspiration from, especially someone like
56:10
Jesse Cole, who if you watch anything, he just has so much
56:15
passion and wants to change the game of baseball.
56:18
And it's doing so, you know, through the bananas.
56:22
So I've had the chance to meet Jesse a couple of times.
56:25
He's a class individual, yeah. That would be awesome.
56:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me see, one more question
56:33
for you, but before I ask it, I want to do 2 things.
56:36
If you're listening and you like today's content, please hit the
56:39
subscribe, like or share button on your favorite podcast app.
56:43
Robert, I also want to tell people the best way to get in
56:44
touch with you. What would that be?
56:47
You could my contact information is on FI #4 health.com and then
56:54
also too you can find me on Facebook.
56:57
Robert Massey are the best ways. OK.
57:02
Last question for you, Robert. I'm curious, how do you see your
57:06
industry evolving in the next few years?
57:07
What do you think the big changes are that are coming?
57:09
Sure, you're, there's going to be a, there's a, a hyper focus
57:17
on home and community based care.
57:19
People want to age in their home, rightfully so.
57:23
I think we all do. And I think there's you're
57:27
starting to see some money put behind that from the government.
57:31
And, and I, so I think you're going to see a shift while,
57:34
while there's the, you know, so-called so-called silver
57:39
tsunami of the, the baby boomers that are aging and at record
57:44
numbers at 80 plus, as you know, over the next couple years,
57:48
those people, I don't think you're going to see a as big of
57:53
a increase in facility based care as people think those
57:57
people are going to age in place and age in their home.
58:00
So I think there's going to be a, a huge focus on, on home
58:03
health and Hospice services placed in the home.
58:07
You know, there's always going to be a place for nursing homes,
58:09
always going to be a place for assisted livings and they're
58:11
great places. But I think you're, I think
58:15
those, those facilities will start seeing a a much older
58:20
client than they are currently just because of the aging in
58:23
place. Well, Robert, I want to be the
58:27
first to thank you for taking both the time and energy to
58:30
Share your story with us today. I really appreciate it.
58:33
Thank you very much for having me.
58:36
That's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
58:39
Folks. Thanks for learning with us
58:40
today.