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Body Bags: An Answer for Gabby · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:09
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. So we finally have
0:21
Speaker 1: an answer Gabby Petito's cause of death. We've been waiting
0:25
Speaker 1: and finally that day has arrived. The corner at in
0:29
Speaker 1: Wyoming As let us peek inside what they found. At
0:33
Speaker 1: least in the early moments of the investigation, still more
0:37
Speaker 1: to be determined, but today we want to explore those
0:41
Speaker 1: findings and do a deep dive into what brought about
0:45
Speaker 1: the death of Gabbie Petito. I'm Joe Scott Morgan and
0:49
Speaker 1: this is Body Backs. Joining me today is Jackie Howard,
0:56
Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what
1:01
Speaker 1: do we know about the case at this point, Joe,
1:04
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, we do know that Gabby Petito was
1:08
Speaker 1: strangled to death. The coroner came out and made his
1:10
Speaker 1: announcement yesterday and then we found out more information last night.
1:15
Speaker 1: The coroner released a little more information during an interview
1:18
Speaker 1: and he said that it was manual strangulation with throttling.
1:23
Speaker 1: And I'll have to tell you a thought to myself,
1:25
Speaker 1: I can't wait till Joe Scott Morgan can explain to
1:27
Speaker 1: me what throttling is. What does that mean? Joe This
1:31
Speaker 1: puts this at a completely different level, Jackie. You know,
1:34
Speaker 1: we early on when we first got the information that
1:37
Speaker 1: it was a strangulation death, that opens up the door
1:40
Speaker 1: to well, there's a variety of different types of strangulation.
1:43
Speaker 1: You've got literature strangulation, you've got something that's called mechanical strangulation,
1:48
Speaker 1: and those two can be confused sometimes, and then you
1:51
Speaker 1: have this area that's called throttling. And throttling actually means, Jackie,
1:56
Speaker 1: that an individual takes their bare hands and generally it's
2:00
Speaker 1: both hands, places them around the neck and then begins
2:05
Speaker 1: to squeeze. That's where the manual comes in. That means
2:09
Speaker 1: that there's no other object involved, no other tool. You
2:12
Speaker 1: think about a literature strangulation where you could use a
2:15
Speaker 1: belt or scarf, or a piece of rope or even
2:17
Speaker 1: a wire, but not in this case. We're talking about
2:22
Speaker 1: the corner saw. And the forensic pathologists saw at the autopsy,
2:26
Speaker 1: they saw evidence that someone had literally taken their hands
2:32
Speaker 1: and wrapped them around Gabby Petito's neck and squeezed and
2:37
Speaker 1: literally squeezed the life out of her little body. You know,
2:43
Speaker 1: I think that most people believe that with decomposition, she
2:50
Speaker 1: had been down for I don't know the corner said
2:53
Speaker 1: yesterday in his pressor you know, three to four weeks,
2:55
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't put a finer point on that. I
2:58
Speaker 1: think that most people think would decomposition, that we're not
3:01
Speaker 1: going to be able to find any evidence at autopsy
3:04
Speaker 1: of any kind of trauma. And that's just not true
3:08
Speaker 1: because if you think about this, everybody at home, I
3:11
Speaker 1: want you to look at the surface area of the
3:13
Speaker 1: palms of your hands, just for a second, look at
3:16
Speaker 1: them and consider them. Think about squeezing an orange or
3:20
Speaker 1: an apple in your hands, and how much force you
3:23
Speaker 1: can exert. Now, you take both hands and you place
3:27
Speaker 1: them over that orange or that apple, and you squeeze,
3:30
Speaker 1: and that compression that's taking place there, it's going to
3:33
Speaker 1: in cases of apples, if you do that, for instance,
3:36
Speaker 1: it's going to leave a bruise and it's going to
3:37
Speaker 1: soften that surface. You can kind of take that and
3:41
Speaker 1: apply that to the human body. As pressure is directly
3:45
Speaker 1: applied with both hands, little areas of hemorrhage begin. And
3:51
Speaker 1: we're not just talking innocuous little areas like PATKII penprick.
3:56
Speaker 1: We're talking about dime sized, quarter size and then they
3:59
Speaker 1: begin to expand, and as that pressure continues, more vessels burst.
4:05
Speaker 1: And if you think about the underlying soft tissue, the
4:07
Speaker 1: muscle tissue, everything that dwells that neck, that hemorrhage expands
4:14
Speaker 1: and begins to envelope that area, and you can in
4:17
Speaker 1: some cases you can actually see external markings of fingers
4:21
Speaker 1: on people's throats, and that extends even below the surface.
4:25
Speaker 1: You can actually make out these specific areas of hemorrhage.
4:29
Speaker 1: The damage would have been extensive, Jackie. Extensive, So Joe,
4:35
Speaker 1: that tells me, if I can be logical for just
4:38
Speaker 1: a second, that tells me that Gabby's body was not
4:43
Speaker 1: skeletonized so that there was enough tissue left for the
4:47
Speaker 1: corner to be able to see what you're talking about. Jackie.
4:51
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic point. And let's step back just for
4:54
Speaker 1: a second, think about what happened that day that the
4:59
Speaker 1: autopsy was done. That afternoon, the corner came out and
5:04
Speaker 1: made a statement about the manner of death. Remember we
5:08
Speaker 1: were talking about the manner of death, and I've talked
5:10
Speaker 1: about how they're five and they came out specifically that
5:14
Speaker 1: day without any further testing, and said, we've got a
5:19
Speaker 1: manner we've got a manner in this case, and we're
5:22
Speaker 1: calling it homicide. And just so our listeners understand, and
5:27
Speaker 1: it's pure ast sense. When you define that word homicide,
5:32
Speaker 1: it literally translates into death at the hands of another.
5:39
Speaker 1: It's very clinical, it's very straightforward. So when they did
5:44
Speaker 1: her post mortem examination, they saw something in that autopsy room,
5:50
Speaker 1: they saw something at the table as they surrounded her body,
5:54
Speaker 1: as they began to thoroughly examine her body, they saw
5:58
Speaker 1: extensive trauma. It would be so glaring because you know,
6:02
Speaker 1: we have to factor in this idea of decomposition. So
6:05
Speaker 1: even though she had been down three to four weeks,
6:08
Speaker 1: when they began to examine what remained of Gabby, it
6:12
Speaker 1: was so striking, it was so absolutely striking that they
6:15
Speaker 1: could definitively walk out of that room and say that
6:19
Speaker 1: the manner of death was homicide. Now you say, well,
6:22
Speaker 1: you know what, it's kind of counterintuitive to what we
6:25
Speaker 1: do in medical legal death investigation because many times we'll
6:29
Speaker 1: have a cause of death, you know, like gunshot wound,
6:32
Speaker 1: for instance, and we don't have a manner because they
6:35
Speaker 1: don't know if it was accidental discharge, they don't know
6:38
Speaker 1: if it was a homicidal event. They don't know if
6:40
Speaker 1: it was suicide or maybe even undetermined. It happened in
6:46
Speaker 1: reverse in this case, and that's what from a medical
6:48
Speaker 1: legal forensic standpoint, what makes this so unique. They were
6:51
Speaker 1: actually able to say that the manner was in fact homicide.
6:56
Speaker 1: And now they've reached the point through all of their
6:59
Speaker 1: analysis consultations when they came up with this determination that
7:05
Speaker 1: this was a manual strangulation, and not just a manual strangulation,
7:10
Speaker 1: but a throttling that's very specific. That means that at
7:14
Speaker 1: this point they have ruled out things like a literature
7:18
Speaker 1: strangulation involving a rope, because if we see cases where
7:22
Speaker 1: individuals are strangled with a rope, it leaves a deep
7:26
Speaker 1: furrow externally on the neck, it leaves a very specific
7:31
Speaker 1: underlying hemorrhage that's linear. That's not what they saw. They
7:35
Speaker 1: saw massive hemorrhage in this area underlying where they knew
7:39
Speaker 1: or at least they're putting forward the idea underlying the
7:44
Speaker 1: area where the hands would have actually made contacts. So
7:46
Speaker 1: they had specific identifying information and evidence at that autopsy
7:53
Speaker 1: to name this specifically as a manual strangulation via throttling.
8:17
Speaker 1: I'm back here with Jackie Howard and Uh, Jackie and
8:21
Speaker 1: I are discussing this idea of manual strangulation and what
8:27
Speaker 1: the corner and the forensic pathologists actually found at autopsy. Joe,
8:33
Speaker 1: you were talking about the corner coming out and making
8:36
Speaker 1: his determination that it was homicide on the day of
8:40
Speaker 1: the autopsy. The corner came out quickly, so he saw
8:45
Speaker 1: what you've been explaining to us very quickly. Yeah, you know,
8:48
Speaker 1: he did. Uh, and and just I don't know, I've
8:52
Speaker 1: used the analogy. It's almost metaphorically like he sprinted to
8:55
Speaker 1: the microphone, you know, to make that as as you
8:58
Speaker 1: well know, people in my line of work and law enforcement,
9:02
Speaker 1: we try to avoid microphones at all costs. In this
9:05
Speaker 1: particular context, he sent out a specific ruling in this
9:11
Speaker 1: case and was very quick about it. And I think
9:14
Speaker 1: there's a lot that goes into this. But keep in mind,
9:17
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing criminal investigation. You've got a person
9:20
Speaker 1: of interest that's at large essentially, and they wanted to
9:24
Speaker 1: frame this early on and say that this is in
9:27
Speaker 1: fact a homicide. We need to be aware this situation
9:30
Speaker 1: is urgent. There's no doubt, there's no equivocation here. This
9:36
Speaker 1: is a homicidal event, and we need to begin to
9:40
Speaker 1: put the pieces together, first off, so that we can
9:43
Speaker 1: understand what happened to Gabby, but also so that we
9:47
Speaker 1: can enforce the urgency as it applies to tracking down
9:51
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry and asking him some very specific questions about
9:55
Speaker 1: what they're finding at the autopsy and forensically, you're explaining
9:59
Speaker 1: to this about the throttling, But describe for me, Joe,
10:03
Speaker 1: what it could have been. Obviously we don't know exactly,
10:06
Speaker 1: we weren't in the autopsy room. But what could it
10:08
Speaker 1: have been that he saw? Would he have seen actual
10:12
Speaker 1: finger marks, if there was tissue, was it bruising, what
10:16
Speaker 1: would he have seen to say this is throttling? Yeah,
10:20
Speaker 1: you know you can see, you can see in some
10:22
Speaker 1: cases relative to contusions, which is just a fancy ten
10:26
Speaker 1: dollar word from Burdus, you can actually see patterns that resemble,
10:31
Speaker 1: you know, finger marks or handprints. Can you say it
10:34
Speaker 1: definitively that you know, like what you like to say
10:37
Speaker 1: one percent scientific certainty on you know on the stand
10:41
Speaker 1: that this is in fact a fingerprint or a handmark
10:44
Speaker 1: and it's tied direct No, you can't say that, but
10:46
Speaker 1: you can say that it looks very very similar. You
10:50
Speaker 1: can say it's consistent with which is a term that
10:52
Speaker 1: you use a lot in forensic science as it applies
10:54
Speaker 1: to the courts. Now some of the other things that
10:58
Speaker 1: they would have noticed at the autopsy. We can't just
11:01
Speaker 1: focus mainly on the underlying hemorrhage, which you know, we
11:06
Speaker 1: don't know because he hasn't said anything. It could be
11:09
Speaker 1: compromised to a certain degree by decomposition. But here's something
11:12
Speaker 1: that probably is not when we begin to think about this,
11:17
Speaker 1: the cartilaginous bodies of the of what's commonly known what
11:24
Speaker 1: the cartilaginous bodies, which is what makes up our windpipe.
11:29
Speaker 1: Essentially that that underlying area in our trachea that gives
11:33
Speaker 1: it firmness. Everybody can feel this at home. Do you
11:36
Speaker 1: know that with throttling. With throttling, not only do you
11:40
Speaker 1: create hemorrhage around that area, there's a crushing event that
11:44
Speaker 1: takes place, and even though cartilage is soft, it's softer
11:48
Speaker 1: certainly than bone. Cartilage will fracture and it'll have its
11:52
Speaker 1: own little areas of hemorrhage. And that's one of the
11:54
Speaker 1: things that they would look look for. We've heard about
11:56
Speaker 1: people having their quote unquote windpipe crushed. That could be
12:00
Speaker 1: one of the things they're looking for. And also that
12:03
Speaker 1: that tiny little bone that everybody likes to talk about, Jackie,
12:07
Speaker 1: and that of course is the highoid it. You know,
12:10
Speaker 1: it sits way way up in the neck, Jackie, I
12:13
Speaker 1: mean way up, and it's an anatomical oddity and the
12:17
Speaker 1: rest of the human body. Because the hyoid bone is
12:22
Speaker 1: actually the only bone that is not articulated or connected
12:26
Speaker 1: to another bone in the human body. It's sole purpose.
12:30
Speaker 1: Its sole purpose is to anchor the tongue. It holds
12:34
Speaker 1: the tongue in place. And it's if folks at home
12:37
Speaker 1: will just think about a horseshoe. That's kind of how
12:40
Speaker 1: it's shaped. And you can see hemorrhage in that area.
12:45
Speaker 1: You can see fractures in that area, and because it's
12:48
Speaker 1: so hard to get to, you rarely see it associated
12:53
Speaker 1: with anything other than manual strangulation. That means direct pressure applied,
12:59
Speaker 1: and it's a eventually fractured or cracked, and that would
13:02
Speaker 1: be something that would not compromise. It wouldn't compromise that
13:07
Speaker 1: manifestations to the tissue rounded we're talking about bone, so
13:10
Speaker 1: it's not going to be compromised by decomposition or the
13:14
Speaker 1: breakdown of soft tissue. That's not the case. It will
13:18
Speaker 1: remain present, it will remain visible. It will remain in
13:23
Speaker 1: a position where it can be examined, not just in
13:26
Speaker 1: place or like we fancy word we say in forensic
13:29
Speaker 1: pathology in sight too, which means in place. But it
13:33
Speaker 1: can be removed and it can be examined by holding
13:37
Speaker 1: it in the hand. It can be examined microscopically, Jackie.
13:41
Speaker 1: And it can also and this is key, can also
13:44
Speaker 1: be retained. So if you find a fractured hyoid, the
13:48
Speaker 1: practice generally is to take it out, you put it
13:51
Speaker 1: in preservative, and you save it. And you know what
13:53
Speaker 1: they do with that. I've actually seen this happen in court.
13:57
Speaker 1: They'll take an intact hyoid and they will physically bring
14:00
Speaker 1: that into the courtroom and present it as evidence. And boy,
14:05
Speaker 1: you talk about something powerful, because that's the essence of
14:08
Speaker 1: the individual, that's part of their body. And if that's
14:12
Speaker 1: brought into a courtroom and they have a fractured hyoid,
14:15
Speaker 1: that's something that they can demonstrate and something the jury
14:17
Speaker 1: can really lash onto. So let's talk a little bit
14:20
Speaker 1: about the actual act of strangulation. Most people do not know,
14:25
Speaker 1: and of course I don't know either, thankfully, how much
14:29
Speaker 1: actual pressure it takes to strangle someone, how long it
14:33
Speaker 1: takes to strangle someone. Walk us through this. I mean,
14:37
Speaker 1: what would have been happening at that time that Gabby
14:40
Speaker 1: was dying. Oh my gosh. It's a complete and total
14:45
Speaker 1: horror show, is what it comes down to. And with
14:48
Speaker 1: manual strangulation and specifically throttling. Let's kind of paint a
14:53
Speaker 1: picture here in kind of classic context when you're talking
14:58
Speaker 1: about the relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. The
15:02
Speaker 1: victim certainly can be standing, okay, but if we think
15:06
Speaker 1: about the interior of that van, it's impossible to stand
15:10
Speaker 1: in that van for any protracted period of time. Generally,
15:13
Speaker 1: what happens is that a perpetrator will get on top
15:16
Speaker 1: of an individual. Now they can do this from the
15:19
Speaker 1: rear or from the front, but classically you think about
15:22
Speaker 1: the front. And here's the really chilling dynamic about this.
15:26
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this is a very personal event.
15:29
Speaker 1: This is intimate. This is as intimate as it can
15:32
Speaker 1: get in homicide. When an individual is being throttled, in
15:38
Speaker 1: many cases, they are staring, they are staring the perpetrator,
15:43
Speaker 1: their killer in the eye, and just let that sink in,
15:48
Speaker 1: just for a second, because when you think about the
15:51
Speaker 1: relationship between the two in a physical sense, where the
15:54
Speaker 1: individual is eye to eye with this person, their life,
15:57
Speaker 1: the victim's life is slowly being diminished. All of the
16:03
Speaker 1: air supply is being cut off, the blood supply is
16:06
Speaker 1: being cut off, because not only are you potentially crushing
16:09
Speaker 1: the windpipe, which really doesn't take that many pounds of pressure,
16:14
Speaker 1: particularly in someone as diminutive and small and tiny as Gabby,
16:19
Speaker 1: you're also clamping down on these major vessels that run
16:23
Speaker 1: through the neck. And all of us have heard about
16:25
Speaker 1: these vessels. We've got the juggler vein, which is the
16:29
Speaker 1: return from the brain of blood, and we've also got
16:32
Speaker 1: the corrotted which is taking oxygenated blood to the brain.
16:37
Speaker 1: Remember the brain, the head is the most vascular area
16:40
Speaker 1: in the body. What that means is is that that
16:44
Speaker 1: area the body requires more oxygenated blood than probably any
16:48
Speaker 1: other area of the human body. Because the brain just
16:52
Speaker 1: eats energy, it requires a tremendous amount of oxygen. So
16:56
Speaker 1: it's not just about breaking the cartilage in the neck.
17:02
Speaker 1: It's not about fracturing the hyoid in and of a self.
17:05
Speaker 1: It's not about specifically leaving hemorrhage behind in the soft tissues.
17:10
Speaker 1: It's also has to do with a deprivation of oxygen.
17:15
Speaker 1: That's the real killer here, you know. I mean, you
17:18
Speaker 1: can have deprivation of oxygen. Everybody knows that. You know,
17:23
Speaker 1: every kid on the planet has tried to hold their
17:26
Speaker 1: breath until they pass out, right, So explain to me
17:31
Speaker 1: that difference. I mean, if she passed out and someone
17:36
Speaker 1: whoever was strangling her let go, would she automatically start
17:40
Speaker 1: breathing or do you have to hold someone? You know
17:43
Speaker 1: what I mean? How long is this process? Some people
17:47
Speaker 1: have opined or put out the opinion that it can
17:52
Speaker 1: take up to five minutes in order to manually strangle somebody.
17:57
Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you, Jackie, with a manual strangulation
18:02
Speaker 1: you've got we would assume a male perpetrator, potentially powerful,
18:07
Speaker 1: big hands, hovering over a very diminutive young lady who
18:14
Speaker 1: is let's let's face it is slight in build a
18:19
Speaker 1: kind of a fragile, very tiny neck. It really doesn't
18:25
Speaker 1: take that long. There's not that It's not like a
18:27
Speaker 1: big bodybuilder that might have a gigantic neck where you
18:31
Speaker 1: have to make your way through a lot of soft tissue.
18:33
Speaker 1: If you look at those images of Gabby and she's
18:36
Speaker 1: so beautiful, you know, you take a look at her
18:38
Speaker 1: and she's smiling. I want people from now on to
18:41
Speaker 1: pay attention to her neck, to take a look at
18:44
Speaker 1: it and see how delicate it is. And there's not
18:46
Speaker 1: much to it. It's supporting her head, you know, and
18:51
Speaker 1: it just kind of rises up off of her shoulders
18:54
Speaker 1: and it's very very slight and bill so it would
18:57
Speaker 1: not have taken a tremendous amount of pressure apply it
19:00
Speaker 1: externally in order to diminish her blood supply, which is
19:05
Speaker 1: carrying oxygen, and also her ability to uptake oxygen. That
19:11
Speaker 1: means inhalate where we take in a breath, and then
19:16
Speaker 1: exhalate where we're forcing breath out. All of these processes
19:19
Speaker 1: are interconnected, Jackie. It's part of our metabolism, it's how
19:23
Speaker 1: we work. So when you introduce a throttling event into this,
19:28
Speaker 1: you completely disrupt everything that's going on with her ability
19:32
Speaker 1: to thrive and live. You're shutting down her lungs, you're
19:36
Speaker 1: shutting down her blood flow, and also you're shutting down
19:40
Speaker 1: her brain's ability to function in a normal manner. All
19:43
Speaker 1: those little synapses that are firing all of the time,
19:46
Speaker 1: they're sending messages throughout the body, whether it's stuff that
19:50
Speaker 1: is conscious, you know, maybe looking in a particular direction,
19:53
Speaker 1: moving our hands, or when it comes down to what's
19:56
Speaker 1: called our primal brain, our autonomic nervous system, which is
20:00
Speaker 1: actually telling without us knowing, it is telling our heart
20:03
Speaker 1: to beat and our lungs to take up oxygen that's
20:06
Speaker 1: being compromised. So all of that is essentially leaving her
20:09
Speaker 1: body during this period of time, and it really paints
20:13
Speaker 1: a chilling picture. She I don't think that she had
20:15
Speaker 1: a chance in this particular case. You know, we're talking
20:36
Speaker 1: about the deprivation of oxygen. We're talking about manual strangulation
20:41
Speaker 1: in the case of Gabby Potito. But you know, there's
20:44
Speaker 1: more to consider here, isn't there? Jackie? There is, Joe,
20:48
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you brought that up. You
20:51
Speaker 1: mentioned early on that in photos that you saw of
20:53
Speaker 1: Gabby when she was sandsurfing, bruising on her back. Then
20:58
Speaker 1: we have the incident in Moab where Gabby and was
21:02
Speaker 1: and Brian were stopped by the police, and she mentioned
21:06
Speaker 1: that he grabbed her face, and the officer asked her
21:09
Speaker 1: about a scratch on her face and some bruising on
21:12
Speaker 1: her shoulder. Gabby said she didn't really know. She didn't
21:16
Speaker 1: mention any type of physical abuse by Brian, But you
21:21
Speaker 1: noticed that. So what would the autopsy or the corner
21:26
Speaker 1: have been able to see. Yeah, let's let's back up
21:29
Speaker 1: one second, Jackie, you gotta tell you that. Remember what
21:32
Speaker 1: that nine eleven caller said. That individual said, there's a
21:37
Speaker 1: man out here in the street, and I'm paraphrasing, there's
21:40
Speaker 1: a man out here in the street that is slapping,
21:43
Speaker 1: that is slapping a young woman. Okay, this is in
21:46
Speaker 1: broad daylight. Think about think about what that means. That
21:50
Speaker 1: means that an individual has the gall too in public,
21:57
Speaker 1: in the light of day, in plain view, to beat
22:00
Speaker 1: up a little girl. That's what it comes down to.
22:03
Speaker 1: And so as an investigator, what I'm going to begin
22:06
Speaker 1: to think about is is there some kind of evidence
22:10
Speaker 1: of ongoing abuse? And you know, you're very right. You know,
22:13
Speaker 1: when I saw those those screenshots of them sand surfing
22:19
Speaker 1: out there in Colorado. You know, one of the things
22:21
Speaker 1: that I noticed and I can't take full credit for
22:24
Speaker 1: this because somebody had pointed it out to me. But
22:26
Speaker 1: I began to take a look at that, and you
22:28
Speaker 1: can see on the exposed surface of her right shoulder
22:32
Speaker 1: that there appears to be some kind of faint demarcation
22:37
Speaker 1: right there that is about I don't know. To me,
22:39
Speaker 1: it looked like it was about size of a quarter.
22:41
Speaker 1: And they're multiple of these multiple So as an investigator,
22:46
Speaker 1: I have to ask this question, is that evidence that
22:50
Speaker 1: she has been contacted or struck by something, or is
22:54
Speaker 1: there evidence that maybe her equilibrium wasn't that great and
22:59
Speaker 1: she had fallen over and landed on her shoulder. So
23:03
Speaker 1: at the autopsy, you know what we would do with
23:06
Speaker 1: that information? If in fact they had this information that
23:09
Speaker 1: time relative to her being knocked around, would would they
23:14
Speaker 1: put that in context and examine the totality of her body.
23:17
Speaker 1: The problem is this, the coroner has stated that she
23:22
Speaker 1: was down three to four weeks. Now, there's all kinds
23:25
Speaker 1: of things that go into this, but just suffice it
23:29
Speaker 1: to say that the body begins to break down. It's
23:32
Speaker 1: a natural process, and the tissue, the soft tissue, the skin,
23:38
Speaker 1: the underlying connective tissue, and certainly the muscle begin to
23:44
Speaker 1: deteriorate and at a just like a microscopic level and
23:49
Speaker 1: at a cellular level, it begins to break down. The
23:52
Speaker 1: body is actually kind of in a weird way, It
23:54
Speaker 1: is kind of ingesting itself. And so as that happens,
23:59
Speaker 1: there are all these little things that we refer to
24:01
Speaker 1: as decompositional artifact, and what that means is that the
24:06
Speaker 1: body begins to manifest dark areas, it begins to kind
24:11
Speaker 1: of eradicate anything else that was there. The trick is
24:14
Speaker 1: the trick is for these forensic scientists, were they able
24:19
Speaker 1: to differentiate between decompositional artifact changes after death and any
24:25
Speaker 1: kind of pre existing trauma she may have sustained prior
24:29
Speaker 1: to the death event. You know, was there evidence of
24:32
Speaker 1: things that were there and had begun to heal. Let's
24:35
Speaker 1: think about this just for a second. All of us
24:38
Speaker 1: have had some kind of bruise in our life. If
24:41
Speaker 1: if you've got kids, you know, they'll come bounding through
24:44
Speaker 1: the door and you'll ask them as a parent, you know,
24:46
Speaker 1: where'd you get that bruise and that sort of thing.
24:48
Speaker 1: They'll give you some kind of reason for it. Every
24:52
Speaker 1: bruise that we have or contusion, it goes through stages,
24:56
Speaker 1: doesn't it? You know, just think about it. Initially it's
24:58
Speaker 1: really bright red and it becomes kind of a blue
25:02
Speaker 1: to purple color. Sometimes it will go black and then
25:05
Speaker 1: blue and the purple, and then it goes through that
25:08
Speaker 1: really disgusting phase where it'll be yellow and green and
25:12
Speaker 1: finally it's gone. Well, that takes place over time, and
25:17
Speaker 1: it's resolving, it's healing. So the question would be, from
25:22
Speaker 1: a scientific perspective, had decomposition compromised that tissue where you
25:30
Speaker 1: couldn't appreciate it fully, where you couldn't understand or be
25:32
Speaker 1: able to appreciate if there was healing going on old
25:35
Speaker 1: injuries and to boot you have to also factor in
25:39
Speaker 1: what's referred to as a perimortem event. Perimortem means in
25:44
Speaker 1: the throes of So the perimortem event in this case
25:47
Speaker 1: would be the trauma that was being inflicted upon Gabby's
25:52
Speaker 1: delicate little neck during her death event. As the life
25:56
Speaker 1: was being squeezed out of her, You've got new hemorrhage
25:58
Speaker 1: that's being created. So it's a difficult task for the
26:02
Speaker 1: forensic scientists because you've got this just huge mesh of information.
26:09
Speaker 1: They're trying to disseminate and separate. So you've got all
26:13
Speaker 1: the stuff that happened prior to her death, You've got
26:16
Speaker 1: the stuff that happened during the midst of that perimortem
26:19
Speaker 1: event I mentioned, and then you've got all the stuff
26:21
Speaker 1: that happens after death. And you can see what a
26:24
Speaker 1: web this is that they kind of have to pick apart.
26:26
Speaker 1: It's no wonder that it took us, you know, several
26:29
Speaker 1: weeks down range after they came up with the manner
26:32
Speaker 1: of death to give us a cause of death? Does
26:35
Speaker 1: the blood pooling the blood that remains in the body
26:39
Speaker 1: when you die in the position the blood goes to
26:42
Speaker 1: the lowest position in the body. Is that going to
26:46
Speaker 1: effect being able to tell about the bruises? You know,
26:50
Speaker 1: you're referring to something we call post mortem leavidity or
26:55
Speaker 1: live or mortis. And essentially, if you'll think about if
26:59
Speaker 1: you'll just take it home, you'll take a cup of
27:01
Speaker 1: water and take it stand over your sink. Don't do
27:04
Speaker 1: it in the middle of your living room, but take
27:06
Speaker 1: a cup of water, stand over the sink and tip
27:09
Speaker 1: it over. What happens to the water, well, it goes
27:12
Speaker 1: to the lowest point of gravity. Blood is no different. Okay,
27:16
Speaker 1: any fluid that you have in your body after death, Remember,
27:19
Speaker 1: your blood is no longer circulating, so it is going
27:22
Speaker 1: to seek the lowest point of gravity. And I don't
27:25
Speaker 1: know this for a fact, but let's just assume that
27:27
Speaker 1: that Gabby's body was laying in a supine position, which
27:31
Speaker 1: means her back was contact in the ground. After she's
27:35
Speaker 1: placed in that position, the blood in her body would
27:37
Speaker 1: seek that lowest point of gravity and would go to
27:40
Speaker 1: her back wherever her body is contacting the ground because
27:43
Speaker 1: gravity is pulling pulling it there. You know, gravity is
27:46
Speaker 1: a constant force in our universe, and so it will
27:49
Speaker 1: darken the skin. That's one of the things that we
27:51
Speaker 1: look at. It's one of the reasons that people refer
27:54
Speaker 1: to it as post mortem lovidity. How many of you
27:57
Speaker 1: guys have ever heard the term You're not just angry.
28:00
Speaker 1: People will say, I'm livid. Well, the reason they stay
28:02
Speaker 1: they're livid is that there's color change in your face.
28:06
Speaker 1: You've ever seen somebody gets so angry their face turns
28:08
Speaker 1: red or purple. I've seen it. And so that applies
28:11
Speaker 1: to postmortem lovidity. There's color changes and they stay there,
28:16
Speaker 1: they stay fixed. So you superimpose that over any kind
28:19
Speaker 1: of bruising that was there. Coupled with that, it even
28:22
Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to appreciate any kind of pre
28:26
Speaker 1: existing trauma. And when we begin to think about that
28:29
Speaker 1: area on her right shoulder that we had mentioned, you know,
28:33
Speaker 1: if she's laying face up, that could potentially be compromised
28:37
Speaker 1: as well because of the postmortum lavidity where the blood
28:40
Speaker 1: is settling into that area, gravity is drawing it down.
28:46
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body backs