Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1087: Foundations - Rut Calling Tactics That Actually Work on Mature Bucks
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired2Hunt Foundations Podcast, your guide to the
- 0:05Speaker 1: fundamentals of better deer hunting. Presented by First Light, creating proven,
- 0:10Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle, or blind. First Light,
- 0:15Speaker 1: go farther, stay longer. And now, your host, Tony Peterson.
- 0:19Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wired2Hunt Foundations Podcast, which is
- 0:23Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light. I'm your host, Tony Peterson,
- 0:25Speaker 2: and today's episode is all about rattling, grunting, bleeding, and
- 0:28Speaker 2: snort-wheezing during the rut. When it comes to turkey hunting,
- 0:36Speaker 2: spring and fall, I'm more of a more is more.
- 0:39Speaker 3: Guy when it comes to calling.
- 0:41Speaker 2: I love saying a lot to turkeys, and I honestly
- 0:43Speaker 2: don't think you can over call if you know what
- 0:45Speaker 2: you're doing.
- 0:45Speaker 3: But when it comes to deer, I'm not so vocal.
- 0:47Speaker 2: I don't love making audio contact with bucks until it's
- 0:51Speaker 2: the right situation. But when it is, it can be
- 0:54Speaker 2: almost unfair to them. Knowing the difference is important, and
- 0:57Speaker 2: it's what I'm going to talk about right now. I
- 1:03Speaker 2: think there is a world of animal communication that we
- 1:06Speaker 2: can't possibly begin to understand.
- 1:09Speaker 3: Think about vervet monkeys, for example.
- 1:11Speaker 2: These little primates have different alarm calls that they use
- 1:14Speaker 2: when they see eagles or leopards or snakes. So when
- 1:18Speaker 2: one of them sounds a specific alarm, say the eagle alarm,
- 1:22Speaker 2: other monkeys will instantly look up to the sky. If
- 1:24Speaker 2: they sound the snake alarm, they'll look toward the ground.
- 1:27Speaker 2: Chimpanzees produce a variety of different calls too, some of
- 1:30Speaker 2: which are tied to food sources. They will vary the
- 1:33Speaker 2: frequency and tone of their grunts to signal different types
- 1:36Speaker 2: of food and even the quality of the foods they find.
- 1:39Speaker 2: Chimps also use contact calls to help individuals maintain some
- 1:43Speaker 2: cohesion in their groups when they're out in thick vegetation
- 1:46Speaker 2: or they have some distance between one another. They often
- 1:49Speaker 2: seem to coordinate movements by calling to one another, which
- 1:52Speaker 2: if you think about it is pretty freaking cool. Primates
- 1:55Speaker 2: of all stripes use a variety of vocalizations, but what's
- 1:58Speaker 2: interesting is that they also use a hell of a
- 2:00Speaker 2: lot of inflections. Now, you know, kind of a half-assed,
- 2:04Speaker 2: there's a leopard around type of warning won't get the
- 2:06Speaker 2: group's attention quite like one that is full of obvious excitement.
- 2:10Speaker 2: Think about how humans communicate and how much tone and
- 2:13Speaker 2: inflection can change the meaning of words. Language isn't just
- 2:17Speaker 2: a static way to communicate some information. It's a way
- 2:21Speaker 2: to influence others to do things and react. Whether that's,
- 2:25Speaker 2: you know, get the hell out of somewhere or purely
- 2:27Speaker 2: for entertainment. Now think about deers. Have you ever heard
- 2:31Speaker 2: a buck grunting as he, you know, kind of cruised
- 2:33Speaker 2: along searching for does? It's pretty cool, but it almost
- 2:36Speaker 2: sounds involuntary, like a dog whining, you know, maybe a
- 2:40Speaker 2: lab whining in a duck blind. Like someone talking to themself,
- 2:44Speaker 2: you know, as he walks down the sidewalk. The words
- 2:47Speaker 2: are there and they might convey something, but in the
- 2:49Speaker 2: overall context of the situation, it seems like they're almost meaningless.
- 2:53Speaker 2: Now imagine a buck standing in the timber who sees
- 2:55Speaker 2: a different buck or maybe a sexy doe in a
- 2:57Speaker 2: field and and he grunts directly at that other deer,
- 3:01Speaker 2: that call is going to sound different because it has
- 3:04Speaker 2: some inflection to it. It has intention to it. I
- 3:07Speaker 2: guess maybe another way to look at this is a
- 3:09Speaker 2: light sparring session between two bucks versus a full-blown buck brawl.
- 3:14Speaker 2: You can mimic either with a set of rattling antlers,
- 3:16Speaker 2: but you're definitely not conveying the same message. There is
- 3:19Speaker 2: nothing more exciting than trying to call in a buck.
- 3:22Speaker 2: I truly believe that. It's so rare and so surprising
- 3:24Speaker 2: and so dang exciting. It's also much easier to call
- 3:28Speaker 2: and get either no response or a negative response than
- 3:31Speaker 2: it is to get a positive one. There's also sort
- 3:33Speaker 2: of a hierarchy to calling that should be understood. And
- 3:36Speaker 2: the lowest tier there is a doe bleat. I've killed
- 3:40Speaker 2: a lot of young bucks with a doe bleat and
- 3:42Speaker 2: have never killed a big buck with one. But I
- 3:45Speaker 2: also don't doe bleat two big bucks hardly ever. So
- 3:48Speaker 2: that's probably why. A doe bleat or a plaintive little
- 3:51Speaker 2: fawn bleat is the safest call you can make. It's
- 3:54Speaker 2: non-threatening to all bucks, and is a call that doe
- 3:58Speaker 2: groups make to one another fairly often. If you see
- 4:01Speaker 2: a little buck any time of the season that you
- 4:03Speaker 2: want to kill, or any buck in any phase of
- 4:05Speaker 2: the rut, this is the easiest call to test the
- 4:09Speaker 2: waters with. Now, you can make these with commercial calls,
- 4:12Speaker 2: or you can simply use your voice and go, meee.
- 4:15Speaker 3: That's it.
- 4:16Speaker 2: When I was younger, I bleated like that to every
- 4:18Speaker 2: little buck I saw, and a lot of them came in.
- 4:22Speaker 2: I've had some does come into it too, but not
- 4:24Speaker 2: very many. And I will say this, if you do
- 4:26Speaker 2: run into a doe that has either lost her fawns
- 4:29Speaker 2: or a fawn that has lost its mama, a bleat
- 4:32Speaker 2: is almost like cheating. When I was in college, I
- 4:35Speaker 2: ran into a doe that I can only assume had
- 4:37Speaker 2: just lost her fawn because I bleated at a little
- 4:39Speaker 2: buck while I was sitting on the ground and a
- 4:41Speaker 2: doe that I didn't know was up the bluff from
- 4:42Speaker 2: me came running in full tilt and I actually had
- 4:45Speaker 2: to recoil after I drew because I thought she was
- 4:47Speaker 2: going to go full linebacker on me. It was one
- 4:49Speaker 2: of the wildest responses to calling I've ever had. and
- 4:52Speaker 2: it didn't work out very well for her. If you
- 4:55Speaker 2: want to test a buck's, or I guess any deer's,
- 4:57Speaker 2: willingness to come into your calling, a doe bleat can
- 5:00Speaker 2: be a good first move. Doe bleats can also really
- 5:04Speaker 2: help you sell a calling sequence. The buck I killed
- 5:07Speaker 2: in northern Wisconsin last year took a lot of bleats
- 5:09Speaker 2: and a lot of grunts and a lot of snort
- 5:11Speaker 2: wheezes to come in. And honestly, after using our Dave
- 5:14Speaker 2: Smith doe decoy the last few seasons, I'm kind of
- 5:16Speaker 2: wondering if I don't mostly just need to use it
- 5:19Speaker 2: and some bleats to talk bucks in. Now either way,
- 5:22Speaker 2: Out where the wild rut chases happen, a common scenario
- 5:26Speaker 2: is when fawns will get separated from mom by bucks.
- 5:31Speaker 2: Doe groups that are separated often get back together by bleeding,
- 5:34Speaker 2: and you can bet your favorite bow that bucks know
- 5:36Speaker 2: that dynamic well.
- 5:38Speaker 3: And you also have grunting, which to me is somewhat
- 5:42Speaker 3: kind of a mystery.
- 5:43Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of love for grunting, if
- 5:45Speaker 2: I'm being honest, and that is entirely from my personal experience.
- 5:50Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who live by grunt calls,
- 5:52Speaker 2: and their results tell me I'm missing something. And don't
- 5:55Speaker 2: get me wrong, I've killed some bucks by grunting at them.
- 5:58Speaker 2: But what has never worked very well for me is
- 6:00Speaker 2: the tending grunt. You know the one that you see
- 6:02Speaker 2: all of the TV guys use like crazy, but you
- 6:05Speaker 2: never actually see real bucks do? I think I've heard
- 6:08Speaker 2: more actual buck roars than I have tending grunts. And
- 6:12Speaker 2: believe me when I say this, I have not heard
- 6:14Speaker 2: very many buck roars in person. Grunting is a higher
- 6:17Speaker 2: risk proposition. but can definitely work. Now, a lot of
- 6:21Speaker 2: hunters use it to blind call. And in a lot
- 6:24Speaker 2: of situations, I'm sure that causes no harm. I don't
- 6:27Speaker 2: feel like I'm in those situations very often, though. And
- 6:30Speaker 2: I'd much rather call to deer I can see so
- 6:32Speaker 2: I can tell if I'm doing it correctly. Now, if
- 6:34Speaker 2: I see a buck out of range who doesn't look
- 6:36Speaker 2: like he's going to come in and it's rut time,
- 6:38Speaker 2: I'll give him a grunt. If he doesn't immediately start
- 6:41Speaker 2: to walk away or look a little wiggy, I'll wait
- 6:43Speaker 2: for him to put his head down or look away,
- 6:45Speaker 2: and I'll grunt again. We play this game until he's
- 6:47Speaker 2: sick of me or he comes in. I don't try
- 6:49Speaker 2: to make it sound like a chase is happening in
- 6:51Speaker 2: front of me, in this situation at least, because when
- 6:54Speaker 2: deer chase, they make a lot of extra noise. I
- 6:57Speaker 2: just feel like a buck that hears obvious tending grunts,
- 6:59Speaker 2: but none of the other associated sounds is one that
- 7:02Speaker 2: might have a little warning signal go off in his brain.
- 7:05Speaker 2: I did kill a buck one time in Minnesota by
- 7:07Speaker 2: doing some blind tending grunts because I had to break
- 7:10Speaker 2: a branch off my tree to be able to shoot,
- 7:12Speaker 2: and it actually worked out super well. Now, I've tried
- 7:15Speaker 2: to repeat that performance about 10,000 times since then, and
- 7:18Speaker 2: it hasn't worked.
- 7:19Speaker 3: So take that for what you will.
- 7:21Speaker 2: Grunt all you want, but maybe think about the tone
- 7:24Speaker 2: of your grunt, the inflection you're putting into your calling sequences,
- 7:28Speaker 2: and the fact that if you do get a response,
- 7:30Speaker 2: he's most likely going to come in downwind. Now we
- 7:33Speaker 2: have a contradiction that I want to talk about here,
- 7:35Speaker 2: which is how I feel about snort wheezing versus pretty
- 7:38Speaker 2: much everyone else I talk to or hear from. I
- 7:41Speaker 2: don't believe for a second that snort wheezing is only
- 7:43Speaker 2: a dominant buck call. I've seen way too many scrappers
- 7:46Speaker 2: come into it to believe that. I don't believe it's
- 7:49Speaker 2: only a rut call either because I've called in bucks
- 7:51Speaker 2: in September and October and November with it. I do
- 7:54Speaker 2: believe it is a higher risk call, but a higher
- 7:57Speaker 2: reward call. But I wouldn't honestly say in my personal experience,
- 8:01Speaker 2: it's any riskier than grunting at a buck. I snort
- 8:14Speaker 2: wheeze with my mouth and it sounds like this.
- 8:18Speaker 3: That's it. I use it a lot.
- 8:21Speaker 2: And when I look at the racks in my trophy room,
- 8:23Speaker 2: I can definitively say that snort wheezing has helped me
- 8:26Speaker 2: kill more big bucks than bleeding, grunting, and rattling have combined.
- 8:30Speaker 2: That's probably because I believe in it. But I also
- 8:32Speaker 2: believe it's the easiest call to talk a deer into
- 8:35Speaker 2: committing with. I have never had a buck come in
- 8:38Speaker 2: from one snort wheeze. It has taken anywhere from probably
- 8:42Speaker 2: five to dozens and dozens. But a buck that doesn't
- 8:46Speaker 2: get boogery by the second or third one is a
- 8:48Speaker 2: deer that will often eventually come in. I've had multiple
- 8:53Speaker 2: times where I've watched bucks go from seeming very natural
- 8:56Speaker 2: and relaxed and uninterested to suddenly bristling up, turning sideways
- 9:01Speaker 2: like a moose that's about to fight, and coming in.
- 9:04Speaker 3: I have to say this too.
- 9:05Speaker 2: I've had plenty of bucks just nope right on out
- 9:08Speaker 2: when I snort wheezed at them as well.
- 9:10Speaker 3: It's a crapshoot.
- 9:12Speaker 2: But it's my highest confidence call, so I use it
- 9:14Speaker 2: a lot. I think it's probably the least understood vocalization
- 9:17Speaker 2: with deer, to be honest. I think that it's a
- 9:19Speaker 2: challenge call, sure, but that it doesn't quite signal what
- 9:23Speaker 2: we think it does. To me, it almost seems like
- 9:25Speaker 2: a taunting, you want to go type of call that
- 9:28Speaker 2: once repeated enough will spark something in bucks that they
- 9:31Speaker 2: can't ignore. So I guess it is a challenge call,
- 9:34Speaker 2: but maybe not the way we think. Nature is violent
- 9:37Speaker 2: and deer are part of nature. They may look all
- 9:40Speaker 2: passive and Bambi-like, but they have weapons on their foreheads
- 9:43Speaker 2: for a reason. If you have a loner buck cruising
- 9:47Speaker 2: out of range and he is not going to come in,
- 9:49Speaker 2: give him a snort wheeze provided he won't be able
- 9:51Speaker 2: to tell instantly that there isn't actually a deer where
- 9:54Speaker 2: he hears the sound coming from. If he doesn't freak out,
- 9:57Speaker 2: keep him coming. If he starts looking around and licking
- 9:59Speaker 2: his nose, grab your bow.
- 10:02Speaker 3: If he keeps going on his way, let him go.
- 10:04Speaker 3: I don't know how to put it any other way,
- 10:06Speaker 3: I guess.
- 10:07Speaker 2: Of course, I'm talking about calling here, and I need
- 10:11Speaker 2: to talk about rattling. I have almost no confidence in rattling.
- 10:17Speaker 2: I used to do it quite a bit when I
- 10:18Speaker 2: was younger, and one time, I had a buck walk
- 10:21Speaker 2: right up to my tree, and when I killed that
- 10:23Speaker 2: little eight-pointer, I thought I had the.
- 10:24Speaker 3: Whole thing figured out. Boy, was I wrong.
- 10:27Speaker 2: I almost never get any type of reaction out of rattling,
- 10:30Speaker 2: but it's also the call that I use blindly the most,
- 10:33Speaker 2: and I don't really use it very often. I do
- 10:36Speaker 2: try to sell the whole ruse when I'm rattling by
- 10:39Speaker 2: breaking branches and making some real noise, but thus far,
- 10:42Speaker 2: it's something that is fun to do, but mostly very unproductive.
- 10:46Speaker 2: I haven't seen a noticeable difference between, I don't know,
- 10:49Speaker 2: a rattling bag and actual antlers, but some hunters swear
- 10:51Speaker 2: by the real thing.
- 10:52Speaker 3: Who knows?
- 10:53Speaker 2: I do know that when I hear other hunters rattle,
- 10:55Speaker 2: which happens more than I'd like when I'm hunting public,
- 10:58Speaker 2: I can almost instantly always tell that it's not real deer.
- 11:02Speaker 2: A real buck fight contains a whole soundscape that is wild.
- 11:06Speaker 2: I once watched two bucks fight in a valley in Minnesota,
- 11:09Speaker 2: and it sounded like two bull moose going at it.
- 11:11Speaker 2: They broke every branch in the valley, and honestly, the
- 11:14Speaker 2: sounds of their bodies moving around in that timber was
- 11:18Speaker 2: as much a part of the whole thing as the
- 11:19Speaker 2: sound of their antlers clacking and grinding together was. I
- 11:23Speaker 2: also had two very good bucks fight in a river
- 11:25Speaker 2: behind my stand in North Dakota one time, and I
- 11:27Speaker 2: still think it was the loudest thing I've heard game
- 11:29Speaker 2: animals do besides.
- 11:30Speaker 3: Maybe elk bugling.
- 11:33Speaker 2: The splashing in the rocks clanking during that fight was
- 11:35Speaker 2: just amazing, and to this day it's the one encounter
- 11:37Speaker 2: I wish I had on film more than any others
- 11:39Speaker 2: that I've had. So here's where we get to the
- 11:42Speaker 2: part that I think matters the most about calling to deer.
- 11:45Speaker 3: You have to learn what works for you.
- 11:48Speaker 2: Now, if you're in southern Texas, for example, and you
- 11:50Speaker 2: rattle in the mesquite all day long, you might believe
- 11:53Speaker 2: that rattling is the answer to all of your deer
- 11:55Speaker 2: hunting woes because of the response rate. But being in
- 11:58Speaker 2: an area with tons of bucks per square mile that
- 12:00Speaker 2: just seem to like to scrap is a far cry
- 12:03Speaker 2: from trying to rattle all day long on public land
- 12:05Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, you know, for example.
- 12:07Speaker 3: Can that work? Sure.
- 12:09Speaker 2: But what are your success rates really going to be like?
- 12:12Speaker 2: That's what I want to get into to wrap this
- 12:13Speaker 2: episode up. The things I do, I do because they've
- 12:16Speaker 2: worked for me. It's part confidence, but also part reality
- 12:20Speaker 2: to the places that I'm hunting. The doe decoys I
- 12:23Speaker 2: use in northern Wisconsin might not move the needle in
- 12:25Speaker 2: higher density areas. But where there are very few deer,
- 12:28Speaker 2: if I can get a buck to lay eyes on
- 12:30Speaker 2: my fake doe, he's very likely to come in. All
- 12:32Speaker 2: this stuff's situational. I have buddies who hunt land close
- 12:35Speaker 2: to land that I hunt. But their situation is different,
- 12:38Speaker 2: and their calling response rate is way better. I think
- 12:42Speaker 2: that deer that live on pressured ground hear a lot
- 12:44Speaker 2: of calling, and they aren't nearly as likely to respond
- 12:47Speaker 2: positively as deer on unpressured ground. I know that's not
- 12:50Speaker 2: anything revolutionary, but think about how often we listen to
- 12:53Speaker 2: someone call on social media or on some kind of
- 12:56Speaker 2: video we're watching, and we try to emulate that sound
- 12:58Speaker 2: in our home woods. We might barely be hunting on
- 13:02Speaker 2: the same planet, metaphorically speaking. So why would our deer
- 13:05Speaker 2: react the same way their deer do?
- 13:08Speaker 3: They might. But what do the deer actually tell you?
- 13:11Speaker 3: That's the most important part.
- 13:13Speaker 2: I think back to my seminar speaking days when I
- 13:16Speaker 2: had someone ask me if I ever used deer scents.
- 13:18Speaker 2: I said not much because I just haven't had that
- 13:20Speaker 2: much luck with them. And as soon as I said that,
- 13:23Speaker 2: a guy in the crowd raised his hand and then
- 13:24Speaker 2: told a story about how he killed a giant buck
- 13:27Speaker 2: that walked right up to the scent wick he had
- 13:29Speaker 2: under his stand. I asked him how many times that's worked,
- 13:32Speaker 2: and he said, well, just that one time. and then
- 13:35Speaker 2: he admitted that he does it every single season without
- 13:37Speaker 2: much luck. Now, is there any harm in trying something
- 13:40Speaker 2: like that? Maybe not, but there can certainly be harm
- 13:43Speaker 2: attached to calling to the wrong deer. I think most
- 13:47Speaker 2: bucks on public land, or, you know, in places with
- 13:50Speaker 2: a lot of hunters, they're more likely to run away
- 13:53Speaker 2: from rattling than run toward it, just as I think
- 13:55Speaker 2: that a lot of them would be pretty skeptical to
- 13:57Speaker 2: hear a whole bunch of grunts coming from a thicket
- 14:00Speaker 2: with no other noise associated with it. I could also
- 14:03Speaker 2: be wrong here. But I also believe the reason that
- 14:06Speaker 2: I have had pretty good success nortweezing is just because
- 14:09Speaker 2: most people don't do it very often.
- 14:11Speaker 3: Everybody groans. Everybody rattles. But what are the deer telling you?
- 14:17Speaker 3: How do they respond?
- 14:18Speaker 2: And if it's using a call like that that other
- 14:20Speaker 2: people aren't using and you get a good response rate
- 14:21Speaker 2: out of it, you just keep going. Now, if you
- 14:24Speaker 2: have a pretty good response rate from rattling during morning
- 14:26Speaker 2: sits in the pre-rut, then you don't need to listen
- 14:29Speaker 2: to what I'm saying about rattling because you have your answer.
- 14:31Speaker 2: The deer have answered it for you. But that's different
- 14:34Speaker 2: from trying some type of calling because it's supposed to
- 14:37Speaker 2: work now. I don't think I could stress that enough,
- 14:40Speaker 2: but I'll try. If you're calling because it's supposed to
- 14:43Speaker 2: work and it mostly doesn't, or always doesn't, then the
- 14:47Speaker 2: deer are telling you that it's the wrong thing to do.
- 14:50Speaker 2: If you think you have your timing right and the
- 14:52Speaker 2: conditions are decent and you still get no positive feedback
- 14:55Speaker 2: from them, pay attention. This is no different from blind
- 14:59Speaker 2: calling to whoever might be around to hear it on, say,
- 15:02Speaker 2: I don't know.
- 15:02Speaker 3: A field edge.
- 15:03Speaker 2: Versus getting into the thick stuff and calling to a buck,
- 15:05Speaker 2: you can see that it's 75 yards away making a rub.
- 15:08Speaker 2: This is stuff I talked about last week. The response
- 15:11Speaker 2: rate will likely be much higher from one.
- 15:14Speaker 3: Scenario over another.
- 15:15Speaker 2: And if you want to call in bucks, you might
- 15:17Speaker 2: have to facilitate that scenario in which calling has a
- 15:20Speaker 2: much higher chance of working instead of using it as
- 15:23Speaker 2: a band-aid on a sit where the odds are just
- 15:25Speaker 2: lower for a variety of reasons. Now, I don't want
- 15:28Speaker 2: to discourage anyone from trying different calls because that's how
- 15:31Speaker 2: you learn.
- 15:32Speaker 3: But do yourself a favor.
- 15:33Speaker 2: And actually try to learn from your attempts. Figure out
- 15:36Speaker 2: what works and when, and then try to expand on that.
- 15:39Speaker 2: That's honestly one of the coolest things about deer hunting,
- 15:42Speaker 2: and the opportunity to go really deep on this stuff
- 15:44Speaker 2: is right now for a hell of a lot of us,
- 15:46Speaker 2: because the rut is fully and truly about to kick off.
- 15:49Speaker 2: So think about that as you head into the woods,
- 15:51Speaker 2: and think about coming back next week, because I'm going
- 15:53Speaker 2: to talk about why the rut is actually really spotty,
- 15:56Speaker 2: and why even if it should be happening everywhere, the
- 15:59Speaker 2: best action is usually isolated to highly specific spots.
- 16:04Speaker 3: That's it for this episode.
- 16:05Speaker 2: I'm Tony Peterson. This has been the Wired to Hunt
- 16:07Speaker 2: Foundations podcast. Thank you so much for listening and for
- 16:11Speaker 2: all your support. I know you're probably already checked out
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- 16:34Speaker 3: Thanks again for all your support.