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POTB 547: Early IU basketball takeaways and the Big Ten's flirtation with private equity · Podcast on the Brink

• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Podcast on the Brink
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Thursday and November twentieth.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Indiana Basketball.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: It's going to be an action later this evening against
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: linden Wood at Assembly Hall. Not expecting that to be
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: much of a game looking at the kind of the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: analytics leading into that one. Anywhere from twenty nine to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: thirty point favorite for Indiana in that game. So not
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: going to focus too much on that game, or really
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: any specific game for IU. But today's guest Zach Austin.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I have the Indian Apple Star before.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: We get to Zach.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: If you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and review over on Apple Podcast or Spotify. And if
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you watch the show on YouTube. Recently just asked nine
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: thousand subscribers on YouTube, so keep hitting that like button.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Subscribing really helps us grow the reach of the channel,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: so we appreciate your support there. Zach, Welcome back to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the show. Haircut looks nice, sweatshirt looks nice. You've had
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a bye week, club, big big week for you, bye week,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: but the work hasn't stopped. I assume with everything going
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: on with football basketball. Well, you've been in Bloomington some
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: for or another for for quite a while now, I
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what what was your freshman year at IU.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Two thousand and five, Okay, so twenty years with one
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: year away.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Did you ever anticipate that there would be a situation
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: where IU football would be in this this spot.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: No, I mean not not this spot. I think there was.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You know, when you watch, certainly when you you recognize
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the investment Fred Glass and then scottdlton're putting into the program,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and you watched so of the success that Kevin Wilson
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: and Tom Allen had, you thought, well, Indiana, there is
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: a formula there for Indiana to be okay in football,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: especially when Indiana finally got to shed the Big Ten
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: East and not have to play Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and and at that time anyway, Michigan State, because I
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: think people forget Michigan State was I mean a national
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: for a run of about seven or eight years at least,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Michigan State was as much of a Big ten powerhouse
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: as any of those other three programs. Traditionally that once
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Indiana kind of got out from under the thumb of
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: that that there would be years. You know, we thought
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: last year would be one where the schedule was set up,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: set up favorally. Maybe they win eight or nine games,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: get to a nice ball, maybe build some recruiting momentum,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: but you know, to have to have gone this far
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: in uh in the the the winning direction is is
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I think something nobody really saw it coming, not just
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: for Indiana, but you know, I think we could have
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: maybe not to quite the extreme, but a similar conversation
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: about Texas Tech, about Ole miss about Vanderbilt. I mean,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: this is you know, this is a this is kind
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: of a function of modern college football in a lot
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of ways, but Indiana is I think the example and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: extremists of it. And so that's why, you know, maybe
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Indiana winds up kind of being the the the banner
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: that everybody flies for geez, look a look at what's
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: possible here in this modern age.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of speaks to just how the rest
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: of the countries looking at this. I opened up ESPN
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: dot com the other day and there was a story
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: paraphrasing the headline, but it's like identifying the next Kurt
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Signetti from the coaching pool this spring. So it kind
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of just gives you an idea of how remarkable this
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: turnaround has been. Been a lot of fun to watch, obviously, Zach,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you cover it much closer than I do. But want
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to talk to you about AU basketball right now because
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the Hoosiers are four and o likely moving to five
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and oh tonight when they play London Wood. You've been
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: at I think most of these early season games exhibitions.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: What what?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: What are your takeaways so far from from watching this
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: team play. The Marquette win obviously opened some eyes, but
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: as we've watched Marquette here a little bit more recently, recently,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: they've faltered, losing it home to Maryland. I believe they
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: also lost at home to Dayton, so I'm not quite
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: sure how good of a team they are, but impressive win. Nonetheless,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Indiana's won most of their games pretty convincingly. Had what
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I kind of wrote was maybe a good experience against
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Incarnate Word to get some actual game pressure and not
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: just win a game by thirty points like they're likely
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: going to do tonight. But just curious for your big
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: picture takeaways from from watching this team early in the season.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: You were obviously down in Puerto Rico as well.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's funny like I and I'm looking
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: up here at their kimpon profile while we're talking, and
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I know I'm going to have to eat these words
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: at some point because it's impossible for a team to
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: be fully formed on November twentieth. But it does feel
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the terms of you know, sort
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: of this team's path to success and failure have kind
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: of in set already, Like we know how they win.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I think we can recognize how they lose. Obviously, we
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: haven't seen them lose yet. They won all three games
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico, they won both exhibitions, therefore no in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the regular season. But you know, you can see how
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: they lose when they face a team that's maybe got
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: that athletic advantage on them, certainly a team that can
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: really punish them with extra possessions because of their inability
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to rebound the ball consistently. And also just you know,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: that Incarnate Word game was a reminder that a team
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: that wants to build its offense around shooting a lot
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: of threes is gonna every once in a while live
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: on the extreme end of the variance curve, and you
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: know that's going to be sometimes they're gonna hit eighteen
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: threes and you know, blowout Illinois and Champagne or something
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: like that. You know, I'm obviously making this up, but
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: they're you know, they're gonna go to Kentucky and they're
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: just gonna wipe Kentucky away because they make so many
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: threes that Kentucky just can't keep up. And it completely
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: defines the complexion of the game. And Indiana wins, and
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: then there are gonna be some games that they lose.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: You know, and if you look at Incarnate word, you
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: recognize me. Even at home where they get good shots,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: maybe not great shots. Darren devreesaid he didn't think necessarily
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: they were all great looks, but a lot of them
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: were good looks at least, and they just don't go
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: in because if you're you know, the the the the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe Indiana fans have forgotten this over time, but the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the the sort of risk and reward of the three
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: pointer is pretty obvious. They're harder to make, but they
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: get you more points. And and I think in modern basketball,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: if you know, especially the way Indiana wants to play,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: you know, the risk reward is that that when you
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: start to struggle scoring, the other stuff creeps in. Right,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, Indiana was defending really well in the
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: first half. I think they only gave up nineteen points
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: in the first half against Incarnate Word. But then the
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: shots keep you know, bouncing rem and off, missing, left, whatever,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: and suddenly Indian it's not rebounding as well. Suddenly Indiana
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: it's not defending as well. Suddenly Indiana's maybe you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: not taking away the spots on the floor. Incarnate Word
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: wants to get to score. But the flip side is
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: it's not just about the raw making of the threes.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: You look back at that Marquette game, like, yes, Marquette
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: is now lost to Maryland and Dayton, but it lost
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: to Maryland by seven, and it lost to Dayton in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: overtime by six. It lost to Indiana by one hundred
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: or super very excuse me, by by twenty three, giving
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: up one hundred, and a big part of that was
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: because every time Marquette looked like it was getting a
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: foothold in the game, Indiana just made another couple of threes.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: And obviously that was kind of at the extreme end
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: in that game, which it was. You know, six of
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: those threes each came from Lamar Wilkerson and Tucker DeVries.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Only two other players hit a three. But like that's
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: what this team is capable of, and that's you know,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: That's why I say, you know, I think we can
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: recognize sort of what works for Indiana what doesn't, and
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: also just that every once in a while, this team
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: is going to do something either very very good or
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: very frustratingly bad, simply because if you're gonna live on
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: you know, the the sort of three point side of
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the line, there are gonna be nights when when the
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: outcome variance is kind of extreme.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: You were in port Rico, so you saw Josh Harris
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: play a little bit, you saw Reestitch play. Obviously, Jason Drake,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: we have not seen. One of the big questions I have,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: just as the schedule maybe toughens up a little bit
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and the games start to take on a little bit
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: more meaning, is the depth of this team. Obviously we
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: know there's not going to be some big front court
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: piece that's out there that's going to come and provide
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: rem protection or shot blocking anything more than what they
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: have now. But I'm curious of those three pieces to
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: what you know and what you've been able to observe.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: To me, it feels like just looking at the status
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: from last year in the experience level, it feels like
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Jason Drake is somewhat pivotal to kind of get back
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: in the rotation or to get something from him as
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: another guard, another ball handler. I think he shot thirty
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: nine percent on threes last year. But I'm curious of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: those three guys, which of them do you feel like
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: has the biggest chance to make an impact on this team?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And do you think they need they need to get
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: another rotation guy going in there, because it kind of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: feels like right now, Josiah Miles's friend rotation depending on
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the game, and we've seen a little bit of Nick
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Dorn and you can kind of see where he potentially
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: fits in. But I feel like they're going to need
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: at least one of those three players to come through
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and be a reliable rotation piece if nothing else.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think there's kind of two answers
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: to that question. Number one, I think one of the
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: two point guards, I think you need one more, you know,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: sort of. I know you'll put the ball on Tucker
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Divree's hands, I know you'll put the ball on Lamar
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Wilkerson's hands, But I think you need one more to
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: find sort of ball handler that's my role. That's what
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I'm comfortable with. That's how I grew up in the game.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned Drake, and he's obviously got the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: experience in college. I would say for Restitch like he
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is twenty. I think a lot of people don't realize,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: like a lot of these kids coming over from Europe
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: are a little older. They're not seventeen eighteen, they're usually
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: more like nineteen twenty. So he's at least got a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: significant amount of experience, and he's you know, he was
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: playing against professionals for a while over in Serbia. When
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: we saw him in Puerto Rico, I was really impressed,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: especially given that I think he joined the team like
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: two days before they left. And you know, Darren DeVries
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: said then like I'm calling out plays and having to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: check myself because I remember he doesn't know what they are.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And yet he did not look at all lost. He
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: didn't look tentative, he didn't look uncomfortable running the offense,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: which Indiana needed a lot because the other thing that
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I think you need a third ball handler
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: for kind of the obvious reasons. I would really stress
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: a third ball handler because Connor and Wright and taking
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Connorway are both like really important to the way you're
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: going to defend, which means they're going to be nights
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: when they get in foul trouble. You know, we saw
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: them both get in foul trouble in Puerto Rico. That's
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: why we saw so much of research down there already.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: You know, this season it's an obviously an early sample size,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: but Connor Enwright is averaging five point four fouls per
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: forty minutes. You know, I think the foul numbers will
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: come down a little bit. I think, you know, we
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: see this a lot where they decide to overemphasize something
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: in the off season and then you know, after a
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: month or two, it just kind of gets abandoned and
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the foul numbers kind of, you know, average out. But
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think you need if we're talking positional, I think
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you need one more ball handler to just be able
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to give you ten at least ten to twelve minutes
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: a night of kind of letting one of Connorway or
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: in right always be resting on the bench and you know,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: having just sort of another steady hand if anybody's ever
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: in foul trouble. Honestly, the other thing I think you
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: would really like. And this is where, not knowing these timelines,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you wonder if Indiana is going to get it, because
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: it is already November twentieth. I think the other thing
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: you'd really like is to get a couple guys back,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: simply so in some of these, you know, some of
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: these blowout games, Lendon would attune Cookman and Chicago State.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: You know, you maybe don't have to play your starters
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: so much like if we're talking, if we're looking at
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the advanced numbers, like Tucker Devriez is already playing eighty
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: percent of available minutes, Lamar Wilkerson's almost seventy seven, Taton
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Connorway is over seventy four. You know, like you'd love
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: it if because this is the time of year where
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: you can take games in minutes out of their leg right.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: You're not going to do that in February. You're not
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: going to do that in March. And you know it
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: if you get healthy by I don't know januine I'm
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: looking at just to picking out a date on the
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: calendar January tenth, which is when Indiana hosts Nebraska. Then
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: you know, sure in theory that's great, but by that point,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: your your rotation is probably pretty defined. A lot of
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: your roles are are pretty settled. You're not going to
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: try and you know, sort of upend the rhythm that
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: your team is if you know, if you're Darren Derees
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: ideally in by that point just to sort of say,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: let's go steal some minutes. Now, obviously, you can hope
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: that maybe you win a few of these big ten
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: games kind of heavy at home. I'm looking at like
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: a you know, maybe like a Washington or a Penn
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: State or something like that, but like those aren't you
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: can't bank on that. You can't just sort of assume that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And I think that's that's where if you could get
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: one or two of these guys back kind of in
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the mix within maybe then couple of weeks, you could
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: also just take some minutes out of the legs of
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: your more experienced players. Because it is worth remembering in general,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: this team season started a lot earlier. They were they
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: had ten full practices in the summer. They played five
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: exhibition games overall, instead of the usual three. And I
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: know that Thereese practices tend to be a little bit
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you know, more sort of streamlined and efficient. You know,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: they don't tend to be on thee the floor for
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: more than like ninety minutes at a time, sometimes less
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: than that, but still it just you know, if we're
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: talking about the long tail impact of fatigue, I think
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: the other reason you would like to get healthy sooner
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: rather than later is simply so in some of these
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: games where you should be able to steal minutes out
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: of guy's leg, you actually have the personnel to do it. Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I was looking at that two game stretch right before
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Christmas Chicago State and CNA. You would hope if if
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Drake or Reese is just going to come back and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: play a meaningful role, I think you at least want
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to have them back before those games and give them
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a chance to could act them. But even tonight's game,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I know we're not talking about guys coming back, but
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: tonight you look at a team that just lost to
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Alabama A and M, a team that Indiana beat handily
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: in the season opener. Lyndon would lost on Alabama A
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: and M by nine in this last game. Tonight's a
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: game where you know, Indiana could you know, get a
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: little rest from some of these guys maybe and get
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: some more minutes from guys like you know, Nick Dorn,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Josiah Miles, even get the walk Ons in there late
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: like they did in those couple of early early games
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: in the season. So just the last thing I wanted
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: to ask you about on this topic is have your
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: expectations for this team and all changed based on what
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you've seen so far. You're kind of still in the
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: wait and see mode. I know you picked them middle
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of the pack in the Big Ten and you look
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: at obviously their analytics have gone up because this coaching
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: staff kind of understands the value of running up the
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: score on some of these lesser opponents. It does have
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: some meaning when you come out and beat team by
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: twenty five thirty points like you're supposed to, it helps
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: boost your numbers.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And we've seen some Big Ten teams.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I looked early in the week and did a post
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: just kind of highlighting the movement of some of these
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: teams and the analytics since the start of the season,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and by no means of these final numbers, and they're
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: going to move a lot by seasons in. But it's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: it's good to have that base where you are moving
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: up rather than moving down and having to play catch
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: up later in the year. But I'm just kind of
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: curious big picture, if anything you've seen so far changes
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: your expectations feelings on where this team could end up
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: ultimately by seasons in Yeah, I.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Mean I think I had a night in the in
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: the preseason either eight or ninth. And right now and
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: ken Palm, they're the seventh highest rated team in the conference.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: So I mean, like that's not a tremendous departure. Now
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it's we're saying they are top twenty five and kN Palm,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I think they started maybe at thirty eight or forty. Yeah,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: even with the incarnate word, you know, kind of I'm
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: not sure i'd call it a scare. But even you know,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: winning that game by less than what the computer models expected,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: you know, Indiana is still a top twenty five team.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I do always believe, and no one can convince me
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: of this. Nobody really can convince me otherwise. I do
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: believe these models can be fooled by scoring, and I
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: like I think they and I'm kind of fine with that,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Like basketball is an offensive game, Like I'm sorry. You know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: years ago, I got a chance to be part of
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the lunch with Bob Ryan and he said he was
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: talking about how much he hated coaches that preached defense
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: first in basketball. He said, no kid ever goes out
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: and defends the game winning shot his driveway at night.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Like you said, it is a game that is inherently offensive.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Edge offense should be encouraged. And so I'm not even
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: really complaining about the idea that I think, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: some of these models can be influenced by a team
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: that just scores efficiently and a lot, even if sometimes
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: that's that comes with some sacrifice at the other end
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: of the floor. That said, I mean, frankly, my impression
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: of this team has changed a little bit for the
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: positive because they have they have a combination of traits
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: that in my experience, and it's very early on, I
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: understand that. But listen, you know, incarnate words just inside
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: of the top two hundred and Ken Palm Milwaukee was
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: picked to win its conference, like those are at least
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like those are the best of the bad opponents you
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: could be playing in games like that, right, Like you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: if that makes sense, and then whatever Marquette's done or
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: not done, I mean, one hundred points on a neutral
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: floor against the Big East team, is is that that
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: is not nothing? Teams that can score the ball in
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of different ways through a number of different
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: players that shoot it really well, that know how to
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: create those shots and don't make a lot of sort
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: of self created mistakes, tend to have a really high floor.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: You know, like if you think about like what wins
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: in the in the NCAA tournament, it's not wasting possessions,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: whether with bad shots or turnovers. It's being able to
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: pivot to multiple leading scores. You know, go go look
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: at any successful instead of a tournament runs. Sometimes yes
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: it's Walter Clayton, but like a lot more often it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: that a team has two or three players and they
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: they sort of like one in the in the you know,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the first round, it's this guy, and in the second round,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: this guy stets up and whatever this team has that
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I think they have the ability to hit threes, and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't want to live on those. And
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that's why maybe I wonder how high this team ceiling
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: is when you couple that to you know what, I
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: think are going to remain defensive issues for most of
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the year, just because of roster construct and and and
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: choices that Darren DeVries had to make when he was
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: pulling an entirely new roster together. But like, to me,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the the stuff that really marks out this team is successful.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Tens to be pretty high floor basketball, like I mean,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, like we've all made a lot
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: of Creighton comparisons. They obviously play at a different pace,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: but it kind of reminds me Wisconsin too. Like Wisconsin,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: you know, Wisconsin just does not does not you know,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: sort of self destruct. Wisconsin creates and makes a lot
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: of good shots. Wisconsin is very tough to beat at home.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And that means that like wherever the ceiling is on
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a Wisconsin team, the floor is always pretty high, right
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: like under Greg Guard and obviously before him, Bill Ryan,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: this team has a lot of that quality to it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, I think when the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: season started they were projected at either seventeen or eighteen
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: wins in Ken Palm. They got up to twenty two
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: projected wins. Very quickly, they're back down to twenty one.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I presumably because of the incarnate word game. But you
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: know it, I mean it really I I really would
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: not be shocked if this is a team that can
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: win you know, maybe maybe twenty two games, maybe eleven
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: or like like twelve in conference and just kind of
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: just be a really good, solid team that starts to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: put a lot of proof of concept of what Darreen
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Devrees wants to do, what he can do on the floor,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to kind of show future transfers, future recruits, et cetera.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: You know, moving forward, I think this team is certainly
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and not like I was, you know, forming hard and
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: fast opinions of this team back in the summer, because
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: you knew they were going to improve. But you and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: I were both at that open practice in July, and man,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: they looked rough, you know what I mean, Like, especially defensively.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: They were struggling. And I don't mean struggling like they
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: did in the second half against the incarrent World. I
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: mean struggling and that was against what like walk On's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: you know, managers gas like, you know, that was that
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: was a problem. The the improvement from then to now
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: makes me think that there is a higher ceiling for
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: this team and that it wouldn't be unreasonable to think
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: that they can finish in the top eight of the
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Big Ten, which means comfortably in the NCAA tournament and
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe win twenty one to twenty two, maybe
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: even twenty three games in the regular season, and then
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: you know from there, it depends on your draw it
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: depends on how well you shoot the ball. But teams
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that do with this team, you know, through what we've
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: seen so far does well, tend to at least make
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the second weekend a lot of the time, and so
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I think it. I think this is I'm certainly more
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: bullish on this group than I probably was, you know,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: going back into July and August.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it also helps that they have just a ton
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: of experienced guys, a lot of seniors, guys that have
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: played a lot of minutes, a lot of starts, scored
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of points. Tucker to Braze is the leading
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: active scoring off college basketball. Lamar Wilkerson was one of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the best three point shooters and score ors in all
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the country less your Connor in Wright's had a ton
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of reps read malely.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, the list goes on.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: All these guys have played a lot of minutes and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: have a lot of experience, and it'll be interesting to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: kind of see how it all plays out. Last thing
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about because you've written
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a lot about it. I've been reading as much as
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I can about it, just because I think it's fascinating.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Is the Big Ten's flirtation with whatever you want, however
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: you want to call whatever you want to call it
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: private equity, private capital.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I think the people who.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Are maybe in favor of the dealer are calling it
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: private capital because of the negative connotation that sometimes private
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: equity brings. But just the Big Ten, what's going on
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: with everything there? Just as easily as you can in
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the cliff Notes version for those maybe maybe who haven't
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: followed it, What is the driving factors behind the Big
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Ten kind of seeking this outside money? What are the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: potential implications, and kind of where do you things stand
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: right now with this because it sounded like maybe.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Prior to this week there was.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Some momentum to move forward without a couple of schools,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and now it seems like that might not be the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: case until everyone's on board. I know it's a lot
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to unpack, but you know, I think it's something that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you've obviously studied pretty closely written about. I've told you personally,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I thought you did a really good job
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: with the column that you wrote about it, just in
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: terms of assessing the risk and maybe why might not
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: be a good idea, But I'm just kind of curious
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: for the listeners and maybe for those who haven't followed it,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: kind of what your thoughts are on everything going on
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: there and a big picture of what it means for
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the league.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of layers to it. So
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I guess the what first is the Big Ten. All conferences,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: virtually all, even the ones that say they aren't are
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: almost certainly lying, have been exploring the idea of private
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: capital and an infusion of immediate money, like money up
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: front for some kind of partnership or you know, I mean,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: for lack of a more artful term ownership within the
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: league moving forward. The Big Ten was the first school
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to really like move this to the front burner. They
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: My understanding was actually that there were a few proposals,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: but the one they settled on was a two point
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: four billion dollar cash infusion capital infusion from the investment
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: arm of the University of California pension system or in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: retirement fund or whatever they kind of call themselves, the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: investment arm of that. And people who might not know this,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: like when you put money into your retirement, people are
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: investing that, like people are, and that's why your retirement
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: like mine has been going down the last few days,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: like you know you, that's why it goes up and down.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: The investment arm of that fund is called you see investments.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: In the proposal was that the use investments would hand
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the Big ten a two point four billion dollar capital
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: infusion in exchange for I think it was a ten
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: percent share of an entity that the Big ten is
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: going to wants to create called Big Ten Enterprises, which
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: basically is going to become like the financial clearinghouse for
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: all the money the Big ten makes. And that's going
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to be like your media rights. I assume your bowl
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: revenues going there, because the Big ten is always split
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: playoff in bowl revenues evenly. But the Big Ten's argument
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: is even kind of the idea that, you know it,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: all these different brands within the conference negotiate so many
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of their own commercial partnerships, so many of their own
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: sort of marketing deals. Well, what if we were offering
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Big ten wide, like, could we not get more money
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: for everyone if we bundled all those brands together and
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: we said we're negotiating on behalf of the Big ten.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And history tells us that the answer is yes. You know,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: when the NCUABLEA a million years ago unilaterally controlled television
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: rights in college football, it actually made more money than,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: at least initially, at least in the immediate aftermath, than
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: what the individual school started making when they sued, it
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: took the ncaat Spring Court and got the Supring Court
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: to say the NCAA was was exercising an unfair monopoly
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: on TV rights. Like in the late nineteen eighties, all
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the schools that wanted their TV rights to be able
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: to negotiate their their own TV rights at a school
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: or conference level found they lost money because their brands
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: individually were less were less valuable than what the NCUBA
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: was able to sort of do when it packaged the
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: entirety of college football together. So like the idea behind
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Big ten Enterprise, Big ten enterprises at least in very works,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: and what the UC investments would do is they would
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: commit to a minimum fifteen year term and they would
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: get I believe it is a ten percent share of
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: annual revenues out of Big ten enterprises, and then the
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: rest would go to the schools. And the belief the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Big ten's argument is we get this capital infusion now
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: because everyone needs money for a whole host of reasons,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: and we can talk about that if you know, in
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: a minute, But we also create this entity that makes
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: everyone more money even while we're paying our private capital
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: partner and the Big ten has been it pains to
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: say that it's not private equity because there's no debt involved.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: You see, Investments is not owed a minimum amount of
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: money per year. You know, you and I were talking
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: about this before coming on air, Like, you see, investments
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: isn't a bank loan and you have to pay the
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: agreed amount annually regardless of how much money you made that.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You know. That's that the Big Ten's not on the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: hook for a set amount, no matter whether that the
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: you know, the money's great or the money's bad. You see,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Investments is just betting on the idea, like if you
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: were a silent partner in a restaurant or something. You see,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Investments is just betting on the idea that they would
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: see return on their investment in the form of you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: greater revenues over that fifteen year period than the two
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: point four billion that they would put in up front.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: The how in this is basically that ten percent stake
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: to you see investments, and then the big ten carved out.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: If I'm remembering the number correctly, Michigan, Ohio State, and
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Penn State would get five point five percent annually each
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Oregon in USC I think we'd get five and everyone
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: else would get four point nine. Now that's caused some
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: consternation within the conference, but by and large most of
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: the most of the schools have signed off on it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I think there's been some kind of like, you know, oh,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: we really is you know, invaluable to the conference as Rutgers,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: but like most everyone is behind it. The why in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the is number one? Everyone needs the money? The do
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: every Does everyone need it? Or does I mean even
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Ohio State is running a budget deficit? Is my understanding
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Like I mean it because I mean this is a
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: horrible metaphor that I keep using. Like we can we
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: can certainly single out all the entities that should have
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: seen these financial challenges coming ten years ago when Ed
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: O'Bannon won his lawsuit. We should have, you know, we
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: should have started saving for a rainy day. We should
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: have carved out for the idea that eventually we were
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: going to have to pay athletes and what it was
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: going to look like. But you know, at this point
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: in time, we can either argue about who broke the
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: plane or we can try and fix it before it crashes.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Because you know, these athletics departments have you know, some
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of them have tremendous debts. Some of them have tremendous
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: debt service. And when you are when you were funneling
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: twenty point five million dollars of your budget into rev
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: share and then probably I would guess annually for a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: competitive school at least another ten to twelve maybe fifteen
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: million in donor dollars to nil, you know needs like
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: think about thirty million. Think about taking thirty million dollars
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: a year out of your budget. Well, what do you
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: think that thirty million dollars was doing well over a
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: let's say a you know, over a twenty year period,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: thirty million dollars a year would have pay down a
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: new five hundred million uh dollar football stadium for example.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I did something with Bloomington Press Club with
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: our good friend Mike Nys Like yesterday I said, I
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: think I think one of the next real financial challenges
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: for a lot of these schools is these stadiums are
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: going to start getting old, and there's not really a
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: public utility argument for using taxpayer dollars in a lot
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: of cases to pay to either fix or replace them. Well,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do then, because you know
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: suddenly you're strapped for cash, you have to pay players.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, we can have conversations about coaching salaries going up.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Whatever the point is, in the near term, everyone needs
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: this money. And in the long term, enough people in
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: conference are convinced that the big ten enterprises piece will
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: make them more money annually, that will that essentially that
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: you know, Michigan, I think a Michigan a member of
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: the Michigan Board of Regents called this a payday loan.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I think I think, you know sort of critics or
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: those on the other side of the argument would say no,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: because we believe that not only am we getting this
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: money up front, but also being able to create this
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: big ten enterprises piece is going to make us more
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: money annually down the line. Now, why you need private
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: capital to create big ten enterprises? Maybe that's another conversation.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: The other big why is that this deal comes with
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: a ten year extension of the grant of rights, which
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: is an agreement that all of the conference's schools sign
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: granting their rights as universities, you know, as brands, to
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: be marketed, to be put on television, to be you know,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: to be packaged into a media rights deal, things like that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: They grant those rights over to the Big Ten. And
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: anyone who has followed all of the drama and the
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: acc the last few years will know the grant of
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: rights is essentially as much as any one thing the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: legal force that binds a conference together. And so if
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you are anybody other than Michigan, Ohio State, or USC,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: there's probably a real value in trying to lock all
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: of the big schools that might one day if some
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: super conference developed somewhere want to break away and leave
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the Big Ten into another ten years in the conference,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: make it much more difficult for them to get out.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: There are two big objectors to this. One is Michigan,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: which I think probably that grant of rights concerned they
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: would look at and say, do we really need that?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: You know everyone, I mean that we are in a
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: position of great power to sort of say no to that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: There's also some political stuff there. I think it's probably
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: fair to say that people at Michigan aren't thrilled with
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the way Tony Pettiti kind of handled the whole Connor
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Stallion's scandal, and we don't need to get too much
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: into that today, but there is there are some political
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: elements to this. His best I can read it, and
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but as best I can read it,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: USC's objection is just that they think they that if
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: they if they're going to enter into this, they just
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: think they should get more money from it. I think
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: the more fundamental objections are just that Number one, you know,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: there's this promise that you see investments will stand for
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: a minimum of fifteen years, and they've said, we see
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: this as a one hundred year investment. That's easy to say,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: but history tells us private capital, private equity, whatever you
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: want to call it, it creeps and eventually the creek
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: becomes destructive. And I also just think, you know, when
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: you start fracturing the conference for money, other conferences have
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: done that. The PAC twelve has done that, the ACC
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: has done that. History tells us when you start doing that,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: when you start compromising on you know, sort of harmony
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and togetherness, especially at a time when the Big Ten
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: is probably less culturally bound than it's ever been, you
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: know less just sort of like bound by cultural ties
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: and and and shared common sort of worldview than it's
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: ever been. If you start creating intentional division in the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: name of cash, I think that the outcomes there don't
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: feel good. Like if you start to play the potential
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: outcomes through to their conclusions, none of them are that encouraging.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: So is this going to happen? Use the investments actually
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: press pause on it. This week they released a statement
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: saying that basically that they I mean, they were more
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: artful than this, but basically just saying they're not comfortable
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: moving forward until the Big ten is like completely on board,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: which makes sense. They're they're the ones putting this money
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: up up front that essentially values the Big Ten is
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a full brand at twenty four billion dollars. That's what
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: they're buying into. They don't want to buy in if
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: they think that brand is somehow becoming more volatile because
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: of this deal. So I can understand from their perspective
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: why they would want to to sort of take a beat,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: take a pause, and try to get everyone on the
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: same page. It will be interesting because, particularly at Michigan,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: there seems to be some very sort of direct and discernible.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like like basically opposition to this, like
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I think like I think it's some of it is
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: just the politics, but I think some of it is
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: truly like philosophical, philosophical disagreement with this. And then there
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: is the congressional element of it too. Maria Cantwell as
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: a Democratic Senator from Washington, which it's worth pointing out
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: is a big ten state. She's also from Indianapolis. I
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: know that she is in the halls of Congress, or
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: at least in the halls of Indiana's other Senate offices.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I think, I think respectfully referred to as Indiana's third Senator.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: At times, she has she has been pretty bullish about
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: sports reform. She's on the Commerce Committee, which is where
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: any kind of college sports reform bill would pass in
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the Senate. Ted Cruz is the chair of that committee,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: so anything that goes through that committee has to be
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: approved by Ted Cruz. But it is worth saying Maria
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Campwell has been pretty outspoken about a lot of this stuff,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and she is the one that has kind of led
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: the charge for the idea that if you if a
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: conference starts doing things like taking on private capital, then
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: maybe we need to re examine their tax exempt status,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: and that would obviously dramatically change the conversation around this,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: because if university athletic departments have to start paying taxes
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: on all their revenues, that that becomes a lot more
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: complicated very quickly. So the point is there are a
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: lot of layers to this. That was like a ten
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: minute answer. I'm sorry, but it's a I mean it is.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of reasons for this. There are
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of various reasons for the objections to this.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: You know, is it possible this winds up being if
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: it goes through, Is it possible it winds up being
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: a good thing? Yes, I will freely admit that there
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: it is possible this winds up being a forward thinking,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: positive financial development in college sports. But the land mines
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: are many, and some of them are substantial, and I
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: just don't I think it is It is difficult to
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: look at this deal and what you would have to
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: compromise to get it done and not feel like that
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: price would be too high.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Is there still a feasible path forward for the Big
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: ten as it's currently constructed? If there isn't, this infusion
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: of cash. Is it Is it a dire situation right now?
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Or yeah? I mean it depends on where you are.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you see l I might tell you yes,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I believe at one point their their debt ran past
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: fifty million dollars, you know, I mean, I think you
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: could start to see some some difficult decisions made around
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: like cutting sports for example, in certain places. You know,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: that has kind of been the red line. Now listen,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I say that's been the red line the you know,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: complaining about that red line while paying coaches ten million
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: dollars a year. You know, I understand why people might
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: might blanche at that. But there is like just a
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: very difficult sort of hypocrisy to square in all of this.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: And I talked about this at Bloomington Press Club yesterday too, Like,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: we don't want to reduce sports two dollars and cents
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: and balance sheets, and we don't want to think that
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: you know, that that private capital is the answer. But
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: then we also, you know, we want athletics departments to
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: behave not like businesses, because if they behaved purely like businesses,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: they would only sponsor two sports, because there are only
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: two sports that make money with the With a few
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: exceptions in women's basketball, baseball probably volleyball, there are only
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: two sports that genuinely generate any revenue in the average
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: college athletics department, even at the highest levels. So it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: hard to say, don't take that money. We want you
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: to operate like a at least a semi amateur, you know,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: college athletics department, but then also say, but we want
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: you to do it at a time when the finances
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: have never been trickier. Like it's it's like it's a
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is a that is a philosophical square
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: to circle that is very difficult because there's kind of
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: like not a right answer to that and also therefore
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: not really a wrong one. Like if your athletics director
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: is saying, I want to take this money because I
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: don't want to cut sports, then you know, I mean,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: it's hard to it's hard to say, no, don't take
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: the money, but you also can't cut the sports, and
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: it's and it's and it's equally hard to say, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: don't pay the coach ten million dollars a year, but
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: don't you better not lose them to Penn State, right,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Like it's I mean, this is this is the natural
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: tension that exists in college.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: That doesn't exist in the pros, which is, we want
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: these entities to run themselves like responsible businesses while making
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: what would be in the business world very irresponsible business decisions.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm not advocating for cutting sports, far from it.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just pointing out if you want college sports to
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: be what people have come to want college sports to be,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: you know that this is kind of the trade off.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Is like, like I said, don't pay the coach ten
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: million dollars a year. Okay, Well, then what are you
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: going to say when the coach leaves because someone else
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: will don't cut sports? All right? Well what are you
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: going to say when the solution is to get this
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: big infusion of private capital. I mean it like it
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: is a difficult conversation to have, and it's all politics
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: are short term and everybody acts in their own best interest,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: so we're never going to get some kind of consensus
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: on how to you know, everybody sort of take a
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: bath to do the right thing for the long term
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: interest of the sport. But you know, it's it's like
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: people who argue for stuff like this aren't totally wrong.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: It's just it's about weighing the costs and the benefits,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: and it does feel in this case like the costs
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: are too heavy. But maybe I'm wrong.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be fascinating to see how it all
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: shakes out. I think you've written a great deal about it. Continue.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll continue to follow it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Right about it.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Make sure to check out all of Zach's work over
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: at indie star dot com. Also listen to this podcast.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Minor Banners and Mike do a terrific job, have a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: lot of fun though. You guys have done some live
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: shows around Blowington as well, so continued success on that.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Keep up the great work, Zach. Thanks for joining us
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: on this week's episode of Podcast on the Brink.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It's always always fun to jump
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: in and catch up. Thank you.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks to our listeners for joining us on this week's
• 43:29
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