Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / How a Pandemic Pivot Sparked a Global Microdosing Movement with Kayse Gehret

Transcript

How a Pandemic Pivot Sparked a Global Microdosing Movement with Kayse Gehret · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Garrett, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 0:09
  Thanks for having me.
• 0:11
  Yes, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:13
  We are excited to have this conversation today.
• 0:16
  So, Casey, you are the founder of Microdosing for Healing, and we'll, we'll get into what that company is and does and all that.
• 0:27
  I mean, the name kind of gives it away, but prior to that, you've got quite a fascinating entrepreneurial journey just to set the stage for our listeners.
• 0:37
  Can you talk about how you got started as an entrepreneur?
• 0:40
  Yeah, happy to.
• 0:42
  So I've been an entrepreneur since I was 19, basically.
• 0:46
  So basically my whole adult life.
• 0:48
  And I always wanted to go into the healing arts.
• 0:50
  I, growing up, wanted to be a doctor.
• 0:52
  I thought I would go into psychology, psychiatry, neurology, something to that effect.
• 0:57
  I've always been interested in working with humans and the way we think and perceive, but I had a lot of health issues as a kid.
• 1:06
  I lost my father at a very young age.
• 1:09
  I developed significant headaches in the aftermath of that.
• 1:12
  As a teenager, I developed a grand mal seizure disorder.
• 1:16
  So while I was on a healing path and always exploring, I always shied away from any kind of drugs, let alone psychedelic drugs, I would say.
• 1:26
  So I spent my life in the healing arts.
• 1:28
  I had a private practice.
• 1:30
  I worked with energy work, Reiki, somatics, for many years, studied hypnotherapy, and then eventually opened my first solstice studio, which was a diversified healing art studios with other people.
• 1:41
  Over eight years, we grew to a staff of over 84 practitioners.
• 1:46
  We had four locations heading into 2020, and then the pandemic hit.
• 1:53
  So I had to come up with something that could keep our community together and connected and also support people's healing.
• 2:01
  At a time we were very limited in our studios, focused on touch therapy and group classes.
• 2:07
  So we were pretty much, we were pretty much the first to close and the last to reopen during a global pandemic.
• 2:14
  And so during those early months of closure, I brought together people to explore around microdosing.
• 2:23
  So while I was hesitant to work with high dose experiences, I had had quite a significant healing experience with lower dose work.
• 2:33
  So we put a group together during the early months of the pandemic to, we thought to tide us over until we could reopen and fast forward.
• 2:41
  Now, six years later, we have a global community based around microdosing practice, professional programs, participant programs, and a podcast today.
• 2:52
  Wow.
• 2:52
  Okay, fascinating.
• 2:54
  So let's unpack that because, you know, you gave us a great overview of your journey.
• 2:59
  You build up this, this healing practice, right?
• 3:03
  Four locations 84 employees doing very well.
• 3:08
  Pandemic hits.
• 3:09
  Obviously no one saw that coming.
• 3:11
  Everything shuts down.
• 3:13
  You're sure, you know, your business is probably on life support at that point in terms of what are you going to do?
• 3:19
  You got to do something.
• 3:21
  You make the decision to pivot to the microdosing because you'd had some experience with that and you saw an opportunity there.
• 3:29
  So when you made that decision, right, and you started, I mean, it was really out of necessity and really to survive for your business to survive.
• 3:37
  What were those early days like in terms of the, the reception, the trajectory, and maybe any pushback you dealt with, given that such a controversial industry?
• 3:48
  I guess we could say, yes, non existent industry at the time.
• 3:53
  Yeah, I mean, it was interesting when it came through and it was really divinely guided to come through.
• 3:59
  I have a very close relationship, intuitive relationship with spirit, and that's what came through to do.
• 4:05
  I remember the day, it was in May of 2020 when it came through and I was like, really?
• 4:11
  Really?
• 4:12
  And I remember my soul was very much on board, but my mind was like, what are you talking about?
• 4:17
  Like, no one has heard of this.
• 4:19
  It's illegal.
• 4:20
  What are you thinking?
• 4:21
  Are people gonna be open to this?
• 4:23
  And so I did what entrepreneurs do and I did a pilot and I just called it a pilot.
• 4:28
  I was like, we're gonna try it.
• 4:30
  I had no idea how to work online at the time, so everything I had ever done was in person.
• 4:36
  And so I had to decide.
• 4:38
  I was like, I can gut my way through this and do it like half assed in a DIY way.
• 4:43
  Or I could find a coach online who specializes in creating an online.
• 4:49
  And so that was a big risk because as you accurately said, I was hemorrhaging money at the time, just hemorrhaging money, paying rent on empty studios, trying to support our staff who were currently unemployed, waiting for relief and
• 5:04
  benefits.
• 5:06
  But I did it and I made the investment to get the support I needed through that.
• 5:11
  And it was six months after that that I launched our first quote unquote pilot program.
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• 5:59
  So at the time we had a community of 22,000 customers at our studios.
• 6:04
  And I was trusting that I could get at least 12 people to be interested.
• 6:10
  And they were.
• 6:11
  And a lot of them, it was so fun because a lot of them were like, I don't really know what this is or what I'm getting into.
• 6:17
  But because we had developed such a deep relationship with our customers and our clients over the last eight years, they were very trusting that we were going to do something that was in their highest and best interest and
• 6:30
  also healing for them.
• 6:32
  Okay.
• 6:32
  And like you said, I guess at that time I'm not so aware of the history of the industry.
• 6:38
  Right.
• 6:38
  I mean, I feel like even now it's a lot more commonly talked about in the wellness community.
• 6:43
  But I guess I don't recall back in 2020, but I guess you're saying it's non existent.
• 6:48
  What's the thought process like, not only going into something that hasn't been done and like you said, non existent, but even the, the legal, I guess, risk, you could say, I mean, was there any concern about, geez, am
• 7:02
  I going to get like, you know, in trou introducing people to these, these psychedelics, that type of thing.
• 7:10
  Beginning because we were locked down.
• 7:13
  I was based in California at the time, so we were closed a really, really long time.
• 7:17
  When we first got started, I partnered with someone who was a cultivation expert and so we could teach people how to grow their own medicines at home.
• 7:24
  We primarily work with psilocybin mushrooms, which, once you get the hang of it, they're very, very easy to grow at home.
• 7:30
  Kind of like having your own, growing your own herb garden.
• 7:33
  Once you get the hang of it, it's very easy to grow your own medicine.
• 7:36
  So people were taking, of course, depending on where they lived in the United States, some degree of risk, but the risk is so much lower if you're just quietly growing your own medicines at home.
• 7:48
  And for many people, the benefits and the potential of what might happen way outweighed the risk for them.
• 7:56
  In my own personal case, when I started microdosing, my seizure stopped.
• 8:02
  I had been medicated for many years with Western medicine.
• 8:04
  Nothing ever worked.
• 8:05
  I never had a diagnosis.
• 8:08
  But when I started microdosing, my seizures healed, my headaches healed.
• 8:12
  I think I've had one headache since.
• 8:15
  And my headaches tend to be hormonally related these days and I have not had a single seizure since.
• 8:22
  So I think for a lot of people we're at the point where the limitations of our other western medical interventions are, people are willing to start to think outside of the box.
• 8:35
  Okay, all right.
• 8:36
  So you make this pivot.
• 8:38
  You do everything you need to do with get, you know, connecting with the right people, the right coach, you get everything ready, you launch, and what happens next.
• 8:49
  It's just been magic from the start, truly.
• 8:51
  It was from the first groups.
• 8:54
  You know, at first I just had my own personal experience and the few people that I had shared practice with in my direct life, you know, people I worked with and close friends and neighbors.
• 9:05
  But that was the first opportunity in a dedicated group setting to really watch the power of this practice and the benefits in such a short amount of time, but also amplified by the group experience.
• 9:17
  And I had tended to work one on one with people most of my career, and that was my first opportunity to see the healing potency of being in a group together too, which I, I believe is the best
• 9:31
  way to hold this practice today.
• 9:34
  And then ever after that, just one group experience led to the next, to the next, to the next.
• 9:40
  So We've now done 32 group programs since that time, and each one kind of builds on the last and we incorporate new learning into the next iteration.
• 9:51
  Okay, all right.
• 9:52
  So magic from the start.
• 9:54
  So you have this first group.
• 9:55
  It goes well, people, I enjoy the experience or getting results, and it leads to the next group and the next group.
• 10:02
  So how did you go about kind of scaling this new.
• 10:07
  This new iteration of your business, even given that the COVID constraints and everything else going on at that time?
• 10:14
  Yeah, I mean, it's very much been in the model of nature, truthfully, like, it's very.
• 10:19
  My celial.
• 10:20
  It's very word of mouth.
• 10:22
  It's one of those things that people have such a beautiful experiences, profound experiences that they naturally want to share.
• 10:30
  So kind of the participants themselves became the little spores that shared.
• 10:35
  It's very common in our community.
• 10:37
  Like, one person starts and then all of a sudden, like their sister's microdosing and their father's microdosing and their neighbors microdosing.
• 10:43
  And so it's very community based in that one person has a ripple effect out into the world.
• 10:51
  Also, I'll say podcasting has been huge.
• 10:53
  So podcasting.
• 10:55
  I have had a PODC since 2023, and I so grateful for all the people who have allowed me to come share about practice on their podcast because it's.
• 11:04
  It's a rare opportunity to speak freely without censorship, without suppression.
• 11:11
  It's really become a huge way that people can share personal stories about what has actually worked and healed them.
• 11:20
  Okay, all right, so interesting.
• 11:22
  So we'll get into that some more.
• 11:23
  Speaking of censorship, like, given, like, again, it's a new industry, controversial.
• 11:30
  It's dealing with, I guess, illegal drugs.
• 11:33
  Really?
• 11:33
  I mean, what was the censorship like when you tried to market and promote as you're getting started?
• 11:41
  I think because I didn't really try to overcome some of the barriers, the common ways of marketing, I just really, really doubled down on the human elements of marketing.
• 11:56
  So sharing word of mouth, just going out and talking to people, it's something that people are so curious about very naturally.
• 12:04
  I think people, all people love nature.
• 12:06
  And when they have the opportunity to like, really remember that, it's something that really sparks people's interest.
• 12:11
  So it was really just talking to people at the supermarket, at the library, at pickups.
• 12:17
  Right.
• 12:17
  And that's how the work spread early on.
• 12:22
  Okay, and so when you started the podcast, what, like, what made you do that?
• 12:27
  That's a great question.
• 12:30
  The honest answer is there was a TED Talk event being put on in my home county at the time, and I.
• 12:37
  They wanted to do a psychedelic salon portion to it.
• 12:40
  And so I was invited to speak about microdosing and do a TED Talk.
• 12:44
  And when I got the invitation, I remember freaking out because public speaking really is nerve wracking.
• 12:50
  And I was so excited.
• 12:51
  But of course I said yes, despite my nervousness.
• 12:55
  And a couple days later I got a follow up email that said, actually, we want you to help us promote the event, but you actually can't speak because you're doing the work.
• 13:05
  And we can only have people talk about the work, not people that are doing the work, but we want you to come.
• 13:14
  And I was like, okay, so I just decided to make lemonade out of lemons.
• 13:19
  And I was like, you know, if I can't, if, if I'm not going to be able to speak on a stage, I'm going to make my own stage in the way that I can.
• 13:28
  So in 2023, I started our podcast and I really try to feature lots of the underground guides, lots of people who are actually working with people who can share that kind of information that goes above and beyond and
• 13:43
  a little bit deeper than just the clinical research and academic framing.
• 13:47
  Okay, wow, interesting.
• 13:49
  And what's the podcast called?
• 13:50
  Microdosing for Healing Podcast.
• 13:52
  Oh, okay, all right.
• 13:53
  That's the name now.
• 13:55
  That's interesting.
• 13:56
  So Ted actually told you because you're actually doing the work, you couldn't speak on stage.
• 14:00
  Is that Almost like an extension of, like, the censorship you're talking about earlier.
• 14:05
  Yeah, Directly.
• 14:06
  Yes.
• 14:07
  Wow.
• 14:08
  Wow.
• 14:09
  Okay, so that spawned the podcast.
• 14:11
  And how many episodes have you put out?
• 14:14
  75 as of next week.
• 14:17
  Yeah.
• 14:17
  Awesome.
• 14:18
  Awesome.
• 14:18
  Okay.
• 14:19
  And like you say now you've really taken that to make your own stage and feature people that probably wouldn't have a stage to talk about this otherwise.
• 14:26
  Right.
• 14:26
  And really get it out.
• 14:28
  And what.
• 14:28
  What's the podcast done for your business?
• 14:31
  Everything.
• 14:32
  It's been one of my favorite aspects of the business.
• 14:35
  It's other than word of mouth.
• 14:36
  It's definitely the top way of people connecting to this work, learning about this work.
• 14:42
  It really gives people a sense to really listen to and feel the guides as they speak.
• 14:47
  Mine's also video too, and so people can see people speaking about this work, and it's.
• 14:52
  It's such an intimate way, a personal way of introducing this work.
• 14:56
  I think it's the ideal medium to find.
• 15:00
  Okay.
• 15:01
  And just for the audience, too.
• 15:02
  That may be curious, because as you've been growing this business and work with so many people now over the past six years and had all these, I guess, reviews and testimonials and etc.
• 15:14
  What's the biggest misconception people have about microdosing?
• 15:18
  So many.
• 15:19
  So many.
• 15:20
  Without the explosion of information on the interwebs and AI.
• 15:25
  Like six years ago, the problem was there was no information.
• 15:28
  So people kind of came to practice and they're like, I have no idea.
• 15:31
  Just kind of a blank canvas.
• 15:34
  Now people come with so many.
• 15:35
  Like, I read this on Reddit and I heard this in a Facebook group, and it's like, what?
• 15:40
  So a lot of the Art first call is kind of debunking some of the misinformation out there.
• 15:46
  So just to run through a couple that we hear all the time, a lot of people think it's going to be like a pharmaceutical experience, that they're going to pop a mushroom capsule and it's going to take away
• 15:56
  their anxiety or take away their depression.
• 15:59
  It's not at all like a pharmaceutical experience.
• 16:02
  So microdosing is so different.
• 16:04
  You're working with nature, and nature is helping you tap into your innate healing that is yours.
• 16:10
  It's not a false mechanism that's kind of altering you that you become reliant and dependent on and something you're going to do the rest of your life.
• 16:19
  So just to use myself an example, when I started microdosing and I noticed after a few months, I had not had a seizure, I had not even had an Aura precursor to a seizure.
• 16:29
  I was curious when I stopped microdosing, are they going to come back?
• 16:32
  And they never did.
• 16:34
  Because I realized that the microdosing allowed me to reset my nervous system to a new set point that I don't have to do anything to change.
• 16:43
  It's like mine to keep.
• 16:44
  And so it's very different than a pharmaceutical experience.
• 16:47
  Another big misconception is people think they're going to feel altered.
• 16:51
  And outside of themselves, I think they think it's going to be like an alcohol experience or even a cannabis experience, maybe that you're different, you're altered, you're slowed down, you're kind of escaping your life.
• 17:04
  No, microdosing, especially mushrooms, are big.
• 17:09
  They bring you home to yourself.
• 17:11
  So when you get your sweet spot, which is sub threshold, sub perceptual, you're not going to be altered, you're not going to be trippy, you're actually going to be more clear, more articulate, more focused, more aligned, more coherent.
• 17:25
  So it's the opposite of escaping life.
• 17:27
  It's really big truth and big honesty.
• 17:32
  And then the last thing I'll say, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, creatives, people with a lot of responsibility and a lot of drive and a lot of ambition.
• 17:40
  And sometimes they're like, I can't be so chilled out that I lose my edge.
• 17:45
  Like, I really like my edge.
• 17:47
  I have these things going on that I want to work with, but I don't want to be so relaxed or so not caring that I kind of lose my ambition.
• 17:57
  No, you won't.
• 17:59
  You won't.
• 18:00
  If anything, I think it clarifies you and it really helps you get super clear on your priorities as an entrepreneur.
• 18:10
  Lots of entrepreneur.
• 18:13
  I know I fall into this too, is delineating what is truly important versus what is kind of what are you meddling in, the minutia that you're meddling in.
• 18:22
  And so mushrooms really bring that clarity of, like, where is your energy most aligned and what are the things that are most important to do now?
• 18:32
  Okay, now that's interesting.
• 18:34
  So you're certainly debunking maybe a lot of commonly held myths and what people think.
• 18:38
  So is this something that people can even do like, like while they're working?
• 18:42
  Right.
• 18:42
  Sounds like yes.
• 18:44
  Yeah.
• 18:44
  So microdosing is sub threshold.
• 18:46
  So it's very different than say like a mushroom journey or a mushroom trip.
• 18:51
  High dose ceremony has lots of different names.
• 18:53
  Microdosing is a sub perceptual, sub threshold dose.
• 18:56
  That's more.
• 18:57
  I encourage people to think of it More like a spiritual supplement.
• 19:01
  So it's something you do in your daily life.
• 19:02
  It's something you have a protocol.
• 19:04
  You might do it three days a week, four or five days a week, and you're integrating it into your daily life.
• 19:10
  So it's not like you have to step outside regular life to do.
• 19:14
  You're doing it just as part of your, the course of your normal day.
• 19:18
  Wow.
• 19:18
  Okay.
• 19:19
  All right, so then present day too, given the success of all these group experiences and your podcast, like, what is, what does your business look like in terms of, is it more so online?
• 19:31
  Are you still.
• 19:31
  You're doing more group events?
• 19:33
  Like, how is it looking present day?
• 19:36
  Yeah, my particular business is fully online.
• 19:39
  I work with a lot of people nationwide and internationally now, and so I love working online in that it brings people from all over the world together in this practice, which has become a big part and driver of
• 19:51
  why I do this work.
• 19:52
  For the other guides, though, in our professional guide community, they host this work in so many different ways.
• 20:00
  So some do online groups, some do retreat, some do microdose hiking experiences, group circles.
• 20:08
  So there's lots of different ways microdosing can be brought forth and it's based really on the creativity of the space holder, bringing it forward.
• 20:17
  Okay, and so given how far you've come, what's next for your company in terms of is it just expanding further online?
• 20:25
  Do you have any new initiatives coming up?
• 20:29
  I think where my heart is now is most excited about is guiding guides.
• 20:36
  So really training and mentoring other guides to do this work and bring microdosing work into their existing practices.
• 20:43
  So last summer, summer of 2025, we launched our first professional training program.
• 20:48
  So it's a 12 week guide training program for people who might be a clinician, might already be in the healing arts in some capacity, or maybe it's someone who's leaving a corporate job and wants to do something that's
• 21:01
  of service and supporting healing.
• 21:03
  It's training people how to bring this work into their lives to support their community in a professional structured program.
• 21:12
  Okay.
• 21:12
  All right.
• 21:13
  And Casey, when you look back at this whole journey, right, when you know you've been an entrepreneur your whole adult life, you built this phenomenal wellness company, scaled it, and then all of a sudden the pandemic hit and
• 21:23
  you really were struck with catastrophe and had to pivot quickly and cause you to build this whole new market microdosing business, which is now thriving.
• 21:31
  When you look at everything you've been through, what's been the best part of this journey for You.
• 21:37
  I think deepening my faith in what you are meant to do finds you, but a lot of it is trusting and releasing what you think you should be doing in order to fully step into what it is you're
• 21:57
  meant to be.
• 21:58
  I spent, in hindsight, I spent a lot of my 20s kind of internally wrestling with myself that being a Reiki healer or being a massage therapist wasn't good enough.
• 22:10
  Right.
• 22:10
  Like, I was supposed to be a doctor, I was supposed to go down this very different professional path.
• 22:17
  And now I see in hindsight, I was being queued up, I was being lined up to do the work that I do today.
• 22:25
  It was all very meant to be.
• 22:26
  It was all very intentional.
• 22:28
  So I think if as an entrepreneur, I think earlier on, I wish I would have been able to step into a deeper trust on the path that I was on, because in hindsight, it was the very best thing
• 22:41
  there was.
• 22:42
  Wow.
• 22:43
  Love that.
• 22:43
  Okay.
• 22:44
  And, Casey, if people are hearing this and they want to learn more about your company and what you do, what's the best way people can reach out to you online?
• 22:52
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  Thanks for asking and thanks for having me.
• 22:54
  Yeah.
• 22:54
  Microdosing for healing is where all the things live.
• 22:57
  The podcast is there.
• 22:58
  We have a beginner package for people who are brand new to practicing, just stepping in that's super accessible.
• 23:03
  That's our microdosing starter package.
• 23:05
  And then all of our professional programs are on there as well.
• 23:08
  Okay.
• 23:09
  And we will link all that in the show notes for everyone.
• 23:12
  All right, well, Casey, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this incredible wisdom from your journey with our listeners.
• 23:18
  We greatly appreciate it.
• 23:20
  Thanks so much.