Latest / Constellations and all that... / 33. Migration, Healing, and Family Systems with Francine Jordà

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33. Migration, Healing, and Family Systems with Francine Jordà · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy Cartwright: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy Cartwright: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Kiara and welcome everyone to Constellations and all that.
• 0:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Today I have the pleasure of talking to the beautiful Francina Joda.
• 0:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, I'm gonna allow invite Francina to say her name correctly.
• 0:46
  Tracy Cartwright: When she says it, it just rolls off her tongue with a beautiful accent.
• 0:49
  Tracy Cartwright: So, welcome to my podcast and um, please introduce yourself and where you are.
• 0:57
  Francine Jordà: Hmm.
• 0:58
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 0:58
  Francine Jordà: Thank you Tracy for inviting me.
• 1:01
  Francine Jordà: Uh, yes.
• 1:01
  Francine Jordà: I'm right now in Spain.
• 1:03
  Francine Jordà: That's, uh, where I was born.
• 1:04
  Francine Jordà: I was born to French parents.
• 1:07
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, yeah, in 98 I married a beautiful Australian man.
• 1:14
  Francine Jordà: So, uh, we have been living between both countries and now we are in the stage of coming back to, to Spain.
• 1:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 1:24
  Tracy Cartwright: And we met many, many years ago.
• 1:27
  Tracy Cartwright: Now you and I met many years ago in Sydney, and you were very active, very active in the constellation world in Sydney.
• 1:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Are you still working with constellations in Spain?
• 1:41
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 1:42
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 1:42
  Francine Jordà: So, so part of, uh, also coming back, uh.
• 1:46
  Francine Jordà: To Spain.
• 1:47
  Francine Jordà: It was because I was, uh, I was training in Spain, in Barcelona at the Stan Institute, and, uh, and then we left, we, we went to, to Australia in 2013.
• 1:57
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, uh, I met you at the intensive there.
• 2:02
  Francine Jordà: Uh, that was an incredible opportunity for me to, to, you know, land in Australia and then, and then meet all the beautiful community.
• 2:12
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 2:12
  Francine Jordà: And then I have been working for 11 years in Australia with, uh, family constellation, sharing this in Newcastle.
• 2:20
  Francine Jordà: And now there was a pool to give back to my land, you know, to, to my country of, uh, of origin.
• 2:28
  Francine Jordà: In this exchange of giving and taking, there was a pool to, to give back to the society that has given me so much, and also the training.
• 2:39
  Francine Jordà: So, uh, I'm doing yes, workshops and trainings in, in Barcelona with, uh, a good friend of mine who comes more from the organizational field.
• 2:52
  Francine Jordà: And we, we are doing lovely projects together for organizations.
• 2:58
  Francine Jordà: We just, uh, finished one foreign organizations called, um, children Village.
• 3:05
  Francine Jordà: Um, and who works for kids, uh, who, who are in, uh, in families, uh, that, uh, have some, some problems.
• 3:15
  Francine Jordà: And they, uh, they have these, uh, programs to prevent them to be separated from the families and they just, uh, it's an international organization and they are transitioning into working more systemically, not only with the children, but with the whole family system.
• 3:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, fantastic.
• 3:35
  Francine Jordà: And that's, that was an amazing experience.
• 3:38
  Francine Jordà: They ha they are so open to it.
• 3:41
  Francine Jordà: We, we just did a six weeks program for them and it was, you know, we are still in awe with, uh, with Nomi to see the, the group there was 20, uh, young professionals.
• 3:55
  Francine Jordà: Psychologists and me mediators, you know, social workers and the energy that they bring to the work, the passion they have and how they integrate it.
• 4:08
  Francine Jordà: You know, every week what we were bringing to them that, you know, it's.
• 4:13
  Francine Jordà: It's big, you know, like starting to, to look at the principles of, uh, systemic and, and, and the capacity they had to, to apply it every week already doing different interventions already with, uh, families and the, and the kids.
• 4:27
  Francine Jordà: It was extraordinary and, and very fulfilling of course.
• 4:31
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 4:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh wow.
• 4:34
  Tracy Cartwright: That sounds amazing.
• 4:35
  Tracy Cartwright: So it's an organization that helps to keep families together.
• 4:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Rather than being fostered out and stuff like that.
• 4:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Is that correct?
• 4:43
  Francine Jordà: So they have, yeah, they have different programs.
• 4:45
  Francine Jordà: It's an organization that was, I think created in 48 in Austria after the Second World War, where there were many kids that were orphaned.
• 4:54
  Francine Jordà: Hmm.
• 4:54
  Tracy Cartwright: So
• 4:55
  Francine Jordà: they created the idea of, uh, instead of, you know, fostering or adopting kids, um, to create villages for them.
• 5:02
  Francine Jordà: Oh wow.
• 5:02
  Francine Jordà: And that's what it's called, the Children's Village.
• 5:06
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 5:07
  Francine Jordà: And it's in, in many different countries.
• 5:09
  Francine Jordà: I don't know.
• 5:10
  Francine Jordà: Oh, I've got
• 5:10
  Tracy Cartwright: goosebumps.
• 5:11
  Tracy Cartwright: That's wow.
• 5:12
  Tracy Cartwright: On it.
• 5:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 5:13
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 5:14
  Francine Jordà: And, and so we worked for the part of this organization that is, uh, in Barcelona.
• 5:19
  Francine Jordà: They have four centers, and they're the ones who are working in the prevention.
• 5:24
  Francine Jordà: They work also with the kids that need to be fostered, but those particular professionals were working for the, for preventing the separation from, uh, yeah, the kids.
• 5:35
  Francine Jordà: Wow.
• 5:35
  Francine Jordà: So of course it makes a lot of sense to work systemically.
• 5:39
  Francine Jordà: Um, yeah.
• 5:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So can you give us an example, little cheeky little example of something that you might have taught them or how would they work with systemically?
• 5:53
  Tracy Cartwright: So are they working with the children or the, or the parents or both?
• 5:58
  Francine Jordà: So it was depending, some professionals were working only with the children and others, uh, had access, uh, to the parents and, and were working with them.
• 6:08
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, yeah.
• 6:10
  Francine Jordà: Changes in interventions were mainly, so the, the, the first one was, uh, including the fathers many.
• 6:21
  Francine Jordà: So many families where there was only the mom, uh, the mother with the kids, and then maybe a second part of the mother.
• 6:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Hmm.
• 6:30
  Francine Jordà: So just this was totally different way of working with the kids.
• 6:35
  Francine Jordà: So this, opening the heart to the father, no matter what, if the father was an narco traffick and all was, uh, in jail was uh mm-hmm.
• 6:43
  Francine Jordà: Uh, but in Argentina or was dead or whatever, you know, that just, this was huge.
• 6:50
  Francine Jordà: Huge.
• 6:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 6:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Tracy Cartwright: That awareness too.
• 6:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Hey.
• 6:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 6:55
  Tracy Cartwright: To open the heart.
• 6:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 6:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Even the tiniest little bit makes such a difference.
• 7:01
  Tracy Cartwright: I've seen that ripple effect within my own family system too.
• 7:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 7:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, beautiful.
• 7:06
  Tracy Cartwright: So how did you first come across Constellations?
• 7:11
  Tracy Cartwright: What was your journey towards it, or how did it find you?
• 7:16
  Francine Jordà: Yes, hit find me as many of us, I think it's a sneaky little, little thing.
• 7:24
  Francine Jordà: In my case, it was 2011 in Spain.
• 7:29
  Francine Jordà: It was three different things.
• 7:30
  Francine Jordà: O one on one side.
• 7:32
  Francine Jordà: I had done geal therapy many years before.
• 7:35
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 7:35
  Francine Jordà: In groups.
• 7:37
  Francine Jordà: At the TAL Institute in Barcelona with John Garriga, and I love to work, so there was something that was in my list to, to train as a khal therapist.
• 7:47
  Francine Jordà: The second thing it was, I was working at that time in a international festival and after five years there was a, a different manager came in and I was bullied and I quit.
• 8:01
  Francine Jordà: And I wanted to understand why I was bullied.
• 8:03
  Francine Jordà: Why me?
• 8:05
  Francine Jordà: A after that he did the same thing with other members of the team.
• 8:09
  Francine Jordà: So there was something going on for him.
• 8:12
  Francine Jordà: Uh, but I was interested in understanding why he started with me and a colleague of mine and both of us.
• 8:19
  Francine Jordà: And then because I quit there, I started to work in a high school as a French teacher.
• 8:23
  Francine Jordà: And I had many students that, you know, were labeled with Attention Deficit Disorder or, uh.
• 8:31
  Francine Jordà: Dyslexia productivity and as a French teacher was the less, uh, important.
• 8:37
  Francine Jordà: So I didn't have access to the, the parents, for instance.
• 8:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 8:42
  Francine Jordà: Uh, and I wanted to know how I could support those kids, what I could do, you know, for, so yeah, I could help them in the best way.
• 8:53
  Francine Jordà: So the three things together made me reconnect with, uh, Riga.
• 8:58
  Francine Jordà: Uh, and then he said to me, Plantin, I'm not doing Gestad anymore.
• 9:02
  Francine Jordà: And I said, what do you mean you, I'm not doing Gestad anymore?
• 9:05
  Francine Jordà: That's not possible.
• 9:05
  Francine Jordà: You are the founder of Gestad Institute in Barcelona, you know, for so many years.
• 9:12
  Francine Jordà: Uh, and then he said, yes, but um.
• 9:15
  Francine Jordà: So there was a, uh, he said, I met a, a guy and it has changed my life.
• 9:22
  Francine Jordà: So I think the, the story went that, uh, Beth Hellinger wanted to introduce his work in the Spanish-speaking countries, and one of his, uh, translators from Austria happened to be at the GE Stallion City in Barcelona for, I dunno, one a work workshop or something like this.
• 9:40
  Francine Jordà: And she loved the space.
• 9:42
  Francine Jordà: So she said to Joanne, look, uh, I know a man who's doing something really different and he would like to come here and to, you know, to talk about his work.
• 9:52
  Francine Jordà: So he invited him, uh, he invited Heener to, to come to Barcelona, and then he said, since then I have been following him everywhere until one day Helen said to Jowan, uh, okay, when, when are you going to start teaching this?
• 10:09
  Francine Jordà: Juan was like, how do you teach that?
• 10:13
  Francine Jordà: How do you do it?
• 10:16
  Francine Jordà: And Hega said, by doing it, by doing workshops, by showing it.
• 10:22
  Francine Jordà: And this is how he started the now it, yeah.
• 10:25
  Francine Jordà: Has been for many years, three years training in Constellations.
• 10:29
  Francine Jordà: And then he said to me, look, come.
• 10:31
  Francine Jordà: We are about to start the first year in the, the first year.
• 10:34
  Francine Jordà: Again, come to the first weekend and your safety is something that resonates with you.
• 10:41
  Francine Jordà: Mm. And of course, as you know, the first day you were, I went there with a naive, uh, intention of just observing.
• 10:52
  Francine Jordà: I'm, I'm just going to witness this.
• 10:56
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, the first day was amazing and the second day.
• 11:01
  Francine Jordà: I remember there was someone, uh, doing a constellation with, um, many siblings and several of them had died, uh, young as children.
• 11:14
  Francine Jordà: And I was sitting, just sitting in the circle and we were about maybe 70 people.
• 11:22
  Francine Jordà: And I remember I started to cry Convulsively.
• 11:26
  Francine Jordà: I, I, I, uh.
• 11:29
  Francine Jordà: It was a deep, you know, a deep sadness came out.
• 11:33
  Francine Jordà: And then when that conation finished, Joanne asked, uh, who would like to work?
• 11:40
  Francine Jordà: And I remember my finger going up.
• 11:43
  Francine Jordà: It wasn't me.
• 11:44
  Tracy Cartwright: I was still, yeah, that was my experience too.
• 11:47
  Tracy Cartwright: My hand went up all by itself.
• 11:49
  Francine Jordà: It's just amazing.
• 11:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 11:51
  Francine Jordà: That's the field taking you, you know?
• 11:54
  Francine Jordà: And I was like crying and like, and thinking, what am I doing?
• 11:58
  Francine Jordà: What am I doing?
• 12:00
  Francine Jordà: What's going on?
• 12:01
  Francine Jordà: So he took me and then he asked me, okay, what's, uh, what's going on Ventin?
• 12:05
  Francine Jordà: And I said, look, I dunno what's going on.
• 12:07
  Francine Jordà: I just.
• 12:08
  Francine Jordà: Know that, you know, this consolation has, has, uh, has, uh, hit me.
• 12:14
  Francine Jordà: And then I said, okay, I can only think that, uh, about my brother who died eight years ago.
• 12:20
  Francine Jordà: And trans said, wow, that's a lot, a long time, you know, for, uh, for this type of reaction.
• 12:26
  Francine Jordà: And I said, yes, I'm, I'm not able to talk about him with a cry.
• 12:30
  Francine Jordà: So it's, uh, and then he said, okay, we're gonna to have a look at this.
• 12:35
  Francine Jordà: And I remember.
• 12:37
  Francine Jordà: The, you know, the simplest of the constellation.
• 12:39
  Francine Jordà: Just, uh, he put mom, dad, my brother, and myself.
• 12:44
  Francine Jordà: And I remember being transfixed looking at the representative for my father who was, so, my brother was like laying down and my father was going up and down without looking at my brother.
• 13:00
  Francine Jordà: And I was thinking, how can this man that I don't know that, that doesn't know any.
• 13:06
  Francine Jordà: Thing about, you know, the, the context.
• 13:09
  Francine Jordà: How can he know that my father could not, uh, see that my fa my brother was dying because my father was too frail at that time and too old.
• 13:20
  Francine Jordà: So he didn't accept that he, my brother was dying and he was like, how can
• 13:26
  Tracy Cartwright: I be?
• 13:27
  Francine Jordà: And then, uh, Joan asked me, do you want to enter the field?
• 13:30
  Francine Jordà: And I say, yes.
• 13:30
  Francine Jordà: Uh, I was in front of the representative for my.
• 13:35
  Francine Jordà: My, my brother and gave him the sentence, I am dead and you are alive and you want me better if you have a good life.
• 13:46
  Francine Jordà: And I remember it was like, so of course mentally it was like, of course my pain doesn't help you, doesn't help me, and doesn't help the people around me.
• 14:01
  Francine Jordà: Uh, but it was also the whole body that the, this sentence transformed the whole situation.
• 14:10
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Francine Jordà: And I left that workshop being able to talk about my brother, you know, happily in, you know, talking a lot, uh, to my, our children about, uh, the happy moments of my, of my brother.
• 14:25
  Francine Jordà: It was, uh, instantaneous.
• 14:27
  Francine Jordà: Wow.
• 14:29
  Francine Jordà: And, and, uh, yeah.
• 14:31
  Francine Jordà: And then of course I, I said to, okay, I dunno what happened, but I want to do this training.
• 14:38
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Tracy Cartwright: And then you found yourself in new, uh, Australia.
• 14:44
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 14:44
  Francine Jordà: And in Australia was very lucky to find all of you and, uh, amazing people like Maria Dolan and Janine.
• 14:54
  Francine Jordà: You know, uh, the elders in the field that, uh, said to me, go, you know, start.
• 15:02
  Francine Jordà: Sharing this because of course I was like, oh, it took me two years to, to start in Australia because, uh, I trained of course more and, and I needed to understand better, you know, the collective trauma in Australia, how people reacted.
• 15:18
  Francine Jordà: Also, you know, the expressions that were different from Spain or that, uh, yeah, to, to learn to read a bit more, you know, the body language and.
• 15:28
  Francine Jordà: My, my English of course, that there was this broken English, and, uh, until Janine said to me, you can't, you can't wait anymore.
• 15:39
  Francine Jordà: And I'm very grateful for that.
• 15:40
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm, fantastic.
• 15:46
  Tracy Cartwright: And you've been, you were running trainings in Australia and now you're running trainings in Spain.
• 15:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 15:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah,
• 15:54
  Francine Jordà: I'm starting, yes, I'm starting to do workshops and then, uh, creating new trainings here.
• 16:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 16:00
  Tracy Cartwright: So if anyone in who's listening to this, 'cause this is quite a bit of a global audience now,
• 16:07
  Francine Jordà: whereabouts
• 16:08
  Tracy Cartwright: in Spain, in case anyone's listening, that would like to contact you for that?
• 16:12
  Francine Jordà: So it's around Barcelona in the northeast of, uh, of Spain.
• 16:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 16:19
  Tracy Cartwright: And we'll put your details in later, but, um,
• 16:22
  Francine Jordà: I'm still in contact with, uh, so I'm still doing things online with, uh, Australian Yeah.
• 16:28
  Francine Jordà: Participants.
• 16:29
  Francine Jordà: We are doing trainings and uh, one-on-one sessions online as well,
• 16:34
  Tracy Cartwright: part period this week, isn't it?
• 16:36
  Tracy Cartwright: It works equally as well online as it does in person.
• 16:40
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, that's right.
• 16:42
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Francine Jordà: And for that, I, I want to thank also, uh, Leslie Nibs.
• 16:49
  Francine Jordà: Because when COVID hit, she offered three free workshops for us facilitators to, to learn to, to do this online.
• 17:00
  Francine Jordà: Mm.
• 17:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, yeah, I did some of that.
• 17:03
  Tracy Cartwright: I had already been working online.
• 17:05
  Tracy Cartwright: I had quite a, a number of clients overseas and stuff like that, so I felt like I had a little bit of a head start, but it was also really good, uh, during that time, you know?
• 17:17
  Tracy Cartwright: The time when the world was locked down to, uh, it kind of opened the world in a way, didn't it?
• 17:24
  Tracy Cartwright: For us in the constellation world.
• 17:28
  Francine Jordà: It did.
• 17:28
  Francine Jordà: And uh, yes.
• 17:29
  Francine Jordà: And you in New Zealand and Australia.
• 17:32
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Francine Jordà: I remember when I arrived at, you were already doing this work online and I was like, how do they do it?
• 17:38
  Francine Jordà: I was so fascinated.
• 17:39
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, yeah.
• 17:41
  Francine Jordà: And then COVID, yeah.
• 17:43
  Francine Jordà: Just brought the, the need to.
• 17:45
  Francine Jordà: To do it for many other people.
• 17:47
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 17:49
  Tracy Cartwright: That's great.
• 17:50
  Tracy Cartwright: And there are so many different ways to do it online as well.
• 17:53
  Tracy Cartwright: It is just like when we are facilitating in person how different we can all be.
• 17:59
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 18:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 18:00
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 18:01
  Francine Jordà: How we gain things, you know?
• 18:04
  Francine Jordà: And we lose things, not in one way or another.
• 18:06
  Francine Jordà: Yeah,
• 18:07
  Tracy Cartwright: absolutely.
• 18:08
  Tracy Cartwright: How would you describe Constellations if you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, so what?
• 18:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you do?
• 18:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Your elevator pitch?
• 18:19
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 18:20
  Francine Jordà: Uh, it changes all the time.
• 18:24
  Francine Jordà: Uh, I would say, so the, for me that the two things there, there's the tool and the philosophy.
• 18:30
  Francine Jordà: So on the one side, it's a, a very efficient way of seeing how we are bonded to other members of our families and allows us transform painful bonds into joyful bonds.
• 18:48
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 18:50
  Francine Jordà: It brings to the surface all those entanglements and unhealthy loyalties.
• 18:57
  Francine Jordà: Um.
• 18:58
  Francine Jordà: That limit our life and help us to restore the flow of love in families.
• 19:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 19:07
  Francine Jordà: So we can have a better relationship with, uh, with others, with our health, with money, with work.
• 19:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 19:16
  Tracy Cartwright: I love that everybody has their own unique way of explaining this.
• 19:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 19:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Is there any themes that you, that you roll with, you know, some people had, some people work with health and others work with, well, I was just talking to, so she works with the feminine energies, the Yani, and then there's all sorts of different things.
• 19:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Is there anything in particular that you mostly work with?
• 19:44
  Francine Jordà: I, no, I, I'm really open to all topics.
• 19:50
  Francine Jordà: But again, of course the field brings you, you know, and in Australia I worked a lot with migration because migration is, uh, is in the field.
• 20:02
  Francine Jordà: So I have been working a lot and, and I have migrated myself.
• 20:05
  Francine Jordà: So I guess that, uh, I attracted also people who, who had,
• 20:09
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 20:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you talk to that a little bit more for the listeners and the viewers to understand how that would show up in a constellation?
• 20:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Just.
• 20:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Think of.
• 20:21
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Francine Jordà: So here, there's lots of things.
• 20:23
  Francine Jordà: One thing that surprised me at the beginning is that when I asked in a group, no, um, who has migration in this system?
• 20:33
  Francine Jordà: Some people said, no, no, there's no no migration in the system.
• 20:37
  Francine Jordà: And then, you know, uh, waiting a little bit more.
• 20:40
  Francine Jordà: Then they said, oh yeah, oh, actually my grandfather came from.
• 20:47
  Francine Jordà: Or Croatia, and some even said, oh, my mom.
• 20:52
  Francine Jordà: My mom.
• 20:52
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, that's right.
• 20:53
  Francine Jordà: My mom came from.
• 20:54
  Francine Jordà: So it surprised me a lot that it was not so conscious.
• 20:58
  Francine Jordà: Mm. Where, you know, most families in Australia have migration.
• 21:05
  Francine Jordà: You know, if it's not
• 21:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely, yeah.
• 21:08
  Francine Jordà: Three or four.
• 21:09
  Francine Jordà: That was something interesting.
• 21:11
  Francine Jordà: And then the, the second question, when I would ask someone, okay, why did your, I dunno, great-grandmother.
• 21:18
  Francine Jordà: Grandmother came from England.
• 21:21
  Francine Jordà: Then the common answer would be, I don't know, I guess as an adventure.
• 21:26
  Francine Jordà: That was also extraordinary because, you know, the, then you would ask, okay, how did she come?
• 21:33
  Francine Jordà: Or, and then they would say, oh, she was, uh, on her own with two little kids and she was pregnant and got on a boat.
• 21:43
  Francine Jordà: You know, and then you say, okay, wow.
• 21:47
  Francine Jordà: Dunno if this was, you know, that she wanted knife.
• 21:52
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Wow.
• 21:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 21:55
  Francine Jordà: So.
• 21:57
  Francine Jordà: So that's a, a, a part of the, the work that I have been doing or I, I felt my role was to accompany people to, to acknowledge the greatness of the ancestors who came, the courage, you know, that took to get on a boat to the other side of the world without knowing anything about that country to start a new life and, and to give a better life to their children.
• 22:26
  Francine Jordà: That was very moving
• 22:28
  Tracy Cartwright: always.
• 22:28
  Tracy Cartwright: So, so what were some of the, if, I mean, without divulging anyone's thing, so what were some of the things that they were turning up with, you know, coming to the workshop with like, and then, then you link would link that somehow to migration?
• 22:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, it's fascinating.
• 22:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, I can, I can see it what, where things would come in, but it's fascinating.
• 22:53
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 22:54
  Francine Jordà: For instance, there's lots of, um, people from China, so grandparents living in China, cultural revolution hitting, then going to Hong Kong for instance, and then the children coming to Australia.
• 23:10
  Francine Jordà: So, uh, issues of, um, for instance, an ad. I work a lot.
• 23:17
  Francine Jordà: And people like my work, like she was, uh, writing I think, uh, in the writing.
• 23:24
  Francine Jordà: So people like it, but I have difficulty getting money, you know, as an exchange.
• 23:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 23:32
  Francine Jordà: So money issues, uh, yes.
• 23:34
  Francine Jordà: You go back and then you see, oh, your grandparents had to leave behind everything, you know, to go to Hong Kong and, and lost.
• 23:45
  Francine Jordà: Uh, all the possessions and this happened, you know, in different places in the world, in, in the communist regimes, you know, when this, uh, this happened to, there is others who were about being adopted, you know, and then you see, okay, my parents, there was a, in China again, one child policy and then, uh.
• 24:12
  Francine Jordà: Was a lady and then when they had a boy, she was given out for adoption.
• 24:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 24:20
  Francine Jordà: So, you know the what help is to see, to introduce the regime and the policy, the one child policy, so she could, uh, open the context of the her parents and see that there was something bigger than them.
• 24:38
  Francine Jordà: That impacted, um, the decision, you know, to give.
• 24:41
  Francine Jordà: So lots of, uh, issues like this.
• 24:45
  Francine Jordà: And then another one that it's very common is people who migrated from instance, from South America, a couple arriving to Australia, deciding to stop speaking English, uh, Spanish, sorry, having a child and speaking not only English to the child.
• 25:05
  Francine Jordà: And then coming to me because the child cannot adapt at, in school, doesn't find a place, wants to go back to, I dunno, Honduras, when they visit Honduras, they, um, the child doesn't want to go back to, come back to Australia, wants to stay there with the grandparents.
• 25:26
  Francine Jordà: So to see how, what we exclude in one generation.
• 25:34
  Francine Jordà: Appears in the, in the next one.
• 25:36
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Francine Jordà: That how children connect with those excluded parts of the family.
• 25:44
  Francine Jordà: And uh, so to help them see, okay, maybe you can start, you know, reconnecting with what you left behind.
• 25:52
  Francine Jordà: Ah, I dunno.
• 25:54
  Francine Jordà: Eating food from Honduras and listening to music and, and speaking maybe back the language, you know, at home.
• 26:03
  Francine Jordà: Mm. Yeah.
• 26:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, it'll be interesting to see if you still get migration, a lot of migration clients now that you're back in Barcelona in your homeland.
• 26:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. But I guess there would be a lot of, is there a lot of, I have never been there.
• 26:17
  Tracy Cartwright: So is it quite multicultural?
• 26:21
  Francine Jordà: It is very multicultural now, yes.
• 26:24
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 26:24
  Francine Jordà: People from, uh, north of Africa, lots of Moroccan people.
• 26:29
  Francine Jordà: From other in South America, of course, because we, we speak the same language.
• 26:33
  Francine Jordà: So it would be like, uh, your English speaking countries, you know that it's easier for people to migrate to.
• 26:40
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 26:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 26:44
  Tracy Cartwright: What differences have you noticed within your family system, um, ma? 'cause I know you've got some children, your husband, as well as, um.
• 26:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Any direct within your parents and cousins?
• 26:58
  Francine Jordà: Um, yeah, so for me it's uh, what has helped a lot is the place.
• 27:08
  Francine Jordà: So taking my place as the thought of my parents and releasing maybe some tensions and also just, yeah, it has hurt me to open my heart to not judging.
• 27:23
  Francine Jordà: Not judging and, and yes.
• 27:26
  Francine Jordà: And, and say, yes, this is, this is how it was.
• 27:30
  Francine Jordà: This is part of our family story.
• 27:34
  Francine Jordà: Um, so I would say yes, it has brought maybe more, um, harmony in the whole system.
• 27:42
  Tracy Cartwright: That's great.
• 27:42
  Tracy Cartwright: When we notice that, when we can recognize the shift.
• 27:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 27:46
  Tracy Cartwright: In the system.
• 27:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 27:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Who's one of your favorite teachers?
• 27:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Or someone that you've read their books or met or maybe haven't met, but would like to meet?
• 27:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, actually, there's quite a few questions in there.
• 28:00
  Tracy Cartwright: We'll start with who's your favorite teacher or one of them?
• 28:06
  Tracy Cartwright: We, were we better?
• 28:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Not single one of them.
• 28:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 28:08
  Tracy Cartwright: There's so
• 28:09
  Francine Jordà: many beautiful people.
• 28:10
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, right.
• 28:11
  Francine Jordà: So I have been following for, for a while, for years now, uh, Bridget in Madrid.
• 28:20
  Francine Jordà: Jit, uh, she's from French, Moroccan origin, but uh, uh, she's living in, uh, has been living in, in Spain for years now.
• 28:29
  Francine Jordà: And she had followed Helga the 10 last years and organizing, you know, trainings in Madrid for him and for me.
• 28:38
  Francine Jordà: She's the one that is more connected to the capacity that Hega had to be.
• 28:47
  Francine Jordà: In the phenomenal, in the phenomenon all the time.
• 28:50
  Francine Jordà: So the capacity to allow the field to inform him and change and leave behind what you know, he has been doing up until now, because it's not, that's not anymore.
• 29:03
  Francine Jordà: So, uh, Bridgette has incorporated different things in the last years, like, um, now for instance, she's doing what she calls a parallel, uh, parallel constellations.
• 29:16
  Francine Jordà: I dunno if you know about this.
• 29:18
  Francine Jordà: No, no.
• 29:19
  Francine Jordà: So it's a bit what was already happening.
• 29:22
  Francine Jordà: In a constellation group, you know that someone is doing the constellation, but when you ask the peoples, you know, to be open and to be in service to that person, in that family system, what happens is that already, you know, when you use, for instance, a, a healing sentence for that particular person, if you are holding space in your open.
• 29:45
  Francine Jordà: That sentence is also for you.
• 29:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, right.
• 29:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 29:49
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Francine Jordà: So what she, she's doing now is if you want to formalize this, and then she says, okay, we are going to start a constellation.
• 30:00
  Francine Jordà: Uh, the ones of you that feel that resonate with this topic, you can stand up and then you, you go to one, you know, part of the room.
• 30:15
  Francine Jordà: And while the constellation is evolving, you just follow your body.
• 30:22
  Francine Jordà: Oh, wow.
• 30:24
  Francine Jordà: Okay.
• 30:24
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, so it's like, so that Constellation is for many more people than just one client and, uh, yes.
• 30:32
  Francine Jordà: And I have done it, you know, online with her too.
• 30:35
  Francine Jordà: She does it online so you can search in your own, you know, please do it.
• 30:41
  Francine Jordà: And what she said, so she.
• 30:44
  Francine Jordà: She, every morning she works with her team.
• 30:48
  Francine Jordà: Every morning she has been doing three years.
• 30:50
  Francine Jordà: So to see what's, what's new, what's, what's the field asking for, you know, with all these changes in the world.
• 30:57
  Francine Jordà: So this was what something her team as
• 31:00
  Tracy Cartwright: and his as in his spiritual team?
• 31:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Is that what you mean?
• 31:04
  Tracy Cartwright: It's the,
• 31:05
  Francine Jordà: the team of, no, the institute.
• 31:07
  Francine Jordà: So she has created an institute in Madrid.
• 31:09
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 31:10
  Francine Jordà: So she has.
• 31:11
  Francine Jordà: Trained so many people for many years.
• 31:14
  Francine Jordà: So she has a core team and they meet every morning and really to, to see what's what's there, you
• 31:23
  Tracy Cartwright: know?
• 31:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 31:24
  Francine Jordà: Um, so she discovered this in doing this practices, uh, and she says that the feedback from many people that have been doing this type of parallel constellations is that often it is more powerful.
• 31:41
  Francine Jordà: For them even than for the person doing the Constellation.
• 31:45
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 31:46
  Tracy Cartwright: I'll have to look her up.
• 31:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you say her name again?
• 31:49
  Francine Jordà: Uh, yes, it is Bridget.
• 31:51
  Francine Jordà: So Bridget er, so CH Champ, pier De.
• 32:00
  Francine Jordà: And I can send it to you if you want.
• 32:02
  Francine Jordà: Oh, I think
• 32:02
  Tracy Cartwright: I might have seen something her name mentioned on a thread, on an email thread.
• 32:09
  Francine Jordà: Oh yes.
• 32:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 32:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Just.
• 32:11
  Francine Jordà: Recently.
• 32:12
  Francine Jordà: Okay.
• 32:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 32:13
  Francine Jordà: Yes, because she's very connected to that spirit of hega of okay.
• 32:21
  Francine Jordà: Opening the field and, and see what's, what comes next.
• 32:25
  Francine Jordà: Another thing that she uses now, it's the The healing.
• 32:29
  Francine Jordà: The healing.
• 32:29
  Francine Jordà: No, yes, the healing force.
• 32:31
  Francine Jordà: She's singing in, in Spanish, and I was.
• 32:34
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, the, the healing force.
• 32:36
  Francine Jordà: So before she start the constellation, there is a representative for the healing force and then this healing force connects first with her and feels if she's ready as a facilitator.
• 32:51
  Francine Jordà: And then during the whole constellation, this healing force is there and she looks at, at the healing force to see where the healing force is looking at.
• 33:01
  Francine Jordà: So.
• 33:02
  Francine Jordà: There are lots of, uh,
• 33:04
  Tracy Cartwright: yes.
• 33:05
  Tracy Cartwright: There's so many different ways to do this, isn't there?
• 33:08
  Tracy Cartwright: It's phenomenal.
• 33:10
  Tracy Cartwright: It really is.
• 33:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Tracy Cartwright: So she's one of your favorite teachers, and is there a, is there a facilitator or a teacher that you'd really like to work with or to go and explore?
• 33:25
  Francine Jordà: So many.
• 33:28
  Francine Jordà: I loved, uh, I remember when he came to the intensive and, uh, he did one constellation that really, uh, stayed with me because it was so simple with a representative for life and so powerful.
• 33:48
  Francine Jordà: Um, so I, uh, I like the way, you know, the, the simplicity of his work.
• 33:55
  Tracy Cartwright: He's an.
• 33:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, is that the right word?
• 34:00
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm not sure.
• 34:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 34:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Tracy Cartwright: So he works very much in the energy of, and yes, he's written a number of books and he's quite, yeah.
• 34:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Interesting, interesting.
• 34:15
  Tracy Cartwright: I didn't see his workshop that, uh, when he came to Australia 'cause um, there was so many offerings.
• 34:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Beauty of an intensive, hey, when there is so many things on offer
• 34:29
  Francine Jordà: and we do the constellation in front of each of the offers, no.
• 34:33
  Francine Jordà: Okay, what does my body say?
• 34:34
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, no.
• 34:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 34:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 34:41
  Francine Jordà: Another one, of course is better.
• 34:43
  Francine Jordà: Za, that's, uh,
• 34:45
  Tracy Cartwright: yes, it was, he was just in my mind just before as well.
• 34:49
  Tracy Cartwright: He's really popping up.
• 34:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, I, I have seen him online and numerous times and he's got such a light, fun energy as about him as well.
• 34:58
  Tracy Cartwright: He is.
• 34:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, but he's so knowledgeable.
• 35:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 35:01
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 35:02
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Francine Jordà: And very down to earth.
• 35:04
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 35:04
  Francine Jordà: So,
• 35:05
  Tracy Cartwright: mm. Maybe I'll get him on my podcast.
• 35:07
  Tracy Cartwright: See if I can interview on,
• 35:10
  Francine Jordà: oh, who knows?
• 35:11
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 35:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Put that one out there to the field.
• 35:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks.
• 35:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Field.
• 35:14
  Francine Jordà: Mm. Yeah.
• 35:15
  Francine Jordà: Mm. And of course, I must say John Garriga my mentor because, uh, for me, he's the one who is so lyrical.
• 35:24
  Francine Jordà: So he has this capacity to talk about constellations in such a poetic way.
• 35:30
  Francine Jordà: A bit like Susie Tucker as well,
• 35:32
  Tracy Cartwright: you know?
• 35:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 35:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 35:33
  Tracy Cartwright: But
• 35:33
  Francine Jordà: you listen to Susie Tucker and it's just so beautiful.
• 35:36
  Francine Jordà: You know, how she, how she explained the bowing, you know, the, the or anything.
• 35:43
  Francine Jordà: Um, yeah, I'm, I'm always mesmerized with people like them just to enjoy the beauty of the words that they use.
• 35:53
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 35:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 35:57
  Francine Jordà: And, and what are yours, Tracy, what is your
• 36:00
  Tracy Cartwright: name
• 36:01
  Francine Jordà: at the moment?
• 36:02
  Francine Jordà: Because I, I guess that it changes as well,
• 36:05
  Tracy Cartwright: so, so popping up for me at the moment.
• 36:07
  Tracy Cartwright: I've got two, when you ask me that question, there's two that I would like to explore a bit more.
• 36:13
  Tracy Cartwright: One is Judith Heming.
• 36:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 36:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 36:17
  Tracy Cartwright: I have witnessed her once on, or been in, in a workshop with her once online.
• 36:22
  Tracy Cartwright: It was only brief, but it was very potent.
• 36:26
  Tracy Cartwright: Potent, yeah.
• 36:27
  Tracy Cartwright: And I really liked her energy.
• 36:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, and the other is Barbara Morgan.
• 36:33
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 36:34
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 36:35
  Francine Jordà: Two British ladies.
• 36:36
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 36:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 36:40
  Tracy Cartwright: And I really, I mean, seen stiffen Haner a few times and yeah, I could do some more of that.
• 36:47
  Tracy Cartwright: I could do some more time.
• 36:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Being in his presence and just the wisdom and the gentleness and, mm.
• 36:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 36:57
  Tracy Cartwright: I'd love to be able to go and spend a week.
• 36:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 37:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Sleep sounds so precise.
• 37:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 37:05
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Francine Jordà: Nice.
• 37:06
  Francine Jordà: And
• 37:06
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm really interested in health as well.
• 37:09
  Tracy Cartwright: So I think that fascinates me about his work.
• 37:12
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 37:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Because he mainly focuses on health, so
• 37:16
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 37:16
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:18
  Francine Jordà: And about health, uh, maybe.
• 37:20
  Francine Jordà: I can share a couple of, because what, what, um, what interests me these last years?
• 37:27
  Francine Jordà: Please do.
• 37:28
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 37:29
  Francine Jordà: To, to see what really helps, you know, because we can do lots of consternations and, but what really transforms, you know, and, and about health.
• 37:42
  Francine Jordà: Uh, I remember, so I had the problem with my back for many years, decades actually, where I was, uh.
• 37:51
  Francine Jordà: I needed one hour every morning to, you know, walk very slowly at home and to, to, to be upright.
• 37:59
  Francine Jordà: And I had lots of episodes with, um, Bulia, IIC nerves, so where I was off work
• 38:06
  Tracy Cartwright: mm-hmm.
• 38:07
  Francine Jordà: And going through many osteopaths and chiropractors and, and at the end.
• 38:15
  Francine Jordà: I gave up, I said, okay, that, that's, that's it.
• 38:17
  Francine Jordà: That's something that stays with me.
• 38:19
  Francine Jordà: It's chronic, uh, and it's not going to to improve.
• 38:25
  Francine Jordà: And then I started the training in constellations and after the first year, uh, they asked us, okay, look back and what has changed in your life?
• 38:34
  Francine Jordà: Uh, and then the second in relations and emotionally, and I remember then they said, and physically.
• 38:44
  Francine Jordà: And I remember thinking, okay, I haven't done any constellation about symptoms or health, so, uh, there is nothing there.
• 38:54
  Francine Jordà: But then I realized, wait a minute, my back pain is gone.
• 39:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 39:03
  Francine Jordà: And probably it went, you know, because gradually, so it's funny how we forget then that we.
• 39:11
  Francine Jordà: Symptoms, you know, for years before when they disappear.
• 39:15
  Francine Jordà: And I said, that's right.
• 39:17
  Francine Jordà: And then I thought, okay, it will come back.
• 39:19
  Francine Jordà: Probably that's maybe these days that I don't have the back pain, that it'll come back.
• 39:24
  Francine Jordà: And it didn't.
• 39:25
  Francine Jordà: That was, you know, 15 years ago.
• 39:29
  Francine Jordà: And then I read later on Hega saying, back pain, knee pains has to do with powering my inability to bow.
• 39:39
  Francine Jordà: And then I understood everything I said, okay.
• 39:42
  Francine Jordà: One thing we do when we train in Constellation is to bow, to go to bow to that after, to reality about to.
• 39:51
  Francine Jordà: And then it made so much sense that you know, that the rigidity, the emotional rigidity to say, oh, I want this to be different.
• 40:00
  Francine Jordà: It gets into the body as well, you know, that that bowing
• 40:03
  Tracy Cartwright: to what is bowing to it as it is.
• 40:07
  Francine Jordà: That's right.
• 40:09
  Francine Jordà: How this can then release the, the body tension and pain.
• 40:15
  Francine Jordà: So what I realize is that sometimes a consolation is, has a direct impact, but very often, you know, we come with a, an issue and then we work with that.
• 40:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 40:30
  Francine Jordà: And it has an impact on other symptoms.
• 40:34
  Francine Jordà: Yeah,
• 40:35
  Tracy Cartwright: well my, my first time in the hot seat.
• 40:38
  Tracy Cartwright: And I was looking at, I wanted to look 'cause my dad was, was terminal and I wanted to, I just, I wanted to know about the love between us.
• 40:46
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause I didn't, never felt like there was any that was from my child's perspective, obviously, because I felt I could feel my inner child rise up.
• 40:55
  Tracy Cartwright: But.
• 40:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, what happened, what the immediate effects after that constellation, when, you know, and I, it was a beautiful realization for me that it wasn't, that there was stuff between mom and dad and that I just put myself in the middle of all that anyway, was that I never touched another cigarette and I had been trying for years to give up.
• 41:15
  Tracy Cartwright: I had my first cigarette when I was nine.
• 41:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, I'd been trying for years and it was.
• 41:21
  Tracy Cartwright: And I'd give up, you know, like a, and then something little would trigger me off and I'd have another one.
• 41:27
  Tracy Cartwright: And yeah, this rollercoaster for years.
• 41:29
  Tracy Cartwright: So I'd, so I'd looked at that.
• 41:31
  Tracy Cartwright: But the side effect was that never touched another cigarette.
• 41:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Never even had the desire used to have this overwhelming cravings.
• 41:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Just be uncontrollable, really.
• 41:42
  Tracy Cartwright: I mean, uh, never.
• 41:44
  Tracy Cartwright: I can't, I can't, the smell of it, eh, does nothing for me anymore.
• 41:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:51
  Francine Jordà: And this is so beautiful.
• 41:53
  Francine Jordà: No, I find it so beautiful because for me it's like we, we want to work on something because we think that this is, you know, what we need to work on, and then life decides whatever she wants to.
• 42:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 42:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Bonus.
• 42:12
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 42:13
  Francine Jordà: So, and, and I think he has, uh, said it.
• 42:16
  Francine Jordà: Um, I'm not so interested in healing the symptom that the person comes with.
• 42:22
  Francine Jordà: I'm more interested in C okay, what are the forces no behind?
• 42:27
  Francine Jordà: And then I work with those entanglements or disorders or, and then once I worked there, this might have an impact on that particular center.
• 42:40
  Francine Jordà: Or on other symptoms.
• 42:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 42:43
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Francine Jordà: And, and this is for me is very important to, we take this humble place of we don't know anything
• 42:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 42:56
  Francine Jordà: And we are in service to life.
• 42:58
  Francine Jordà: So, um, yeah.
• 43:01
  Francine Jordà: That's so beautiful.
• 43:02
  Francine Jordà: What you just, uh, shared a lot.
• 43:07
  Francine Jordà: And and the relation to, yeah.
• 43:10
  Francine Jordà: To smoking is,
• 43:13
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 43:13
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and I re remember, I had bought a packet of cigarettes on my way down to this.
• 43:19
  Tracy Cartwright: It was, yeah, it was a heal, it was a healing weekend and I was so triggered.
• 43:26
  Tracy Cartwright: I'd bought a packet of cigarettes on the way down then, and then I, I felt guilty every time I had one.
• 43:30
  Tracy Cartwright: And I didn't know how I was ever going to,'cause my dad was dying of lung cancer.
• 43:36
  Tracy Cartwright: So I'm here I am chopping away on a cigarette and I had been for years and years and years.
• 43:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So I was very grateful for that.
• 43:43
  Tracy Cartwright: My dad was a real catalyst for, um, triggering me.
• 43:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Or triggering events that catapulted me into very different trajectories in my life.
• 43:56
  Tracy Cartwright: So I'm grateful for that.
• 43:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm mm
• 44:00
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 44:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Very grateful.
• 44:03
  Francine Jordà: The mystery of life.
• 44:04
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 44:04
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 44:04
  Francine Jordà: Mm
• 44:05
  Tracy Cartwright: mm And you are back home and you are near mum.
• 44:11
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 44:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 44:12
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 44:13
  Francine Jordà: And,
• 44:13
  Tracy Cartwright: and she knows what you do.
• 44:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Does she understand what you do?
• 44:18
  Francine Jordà: She doesn't quite understand.
• 44:20
  Francine Jordà: And uh, you know, it's, uh, she's 98 and has lost her, lost her memory.
• 44:26
  Francine Jordà: And she asked because I'm also, yes, I was, uh, working as a French teacher and she's a French teacher.
• 44:32
  Francine Jordà: My father was a French teacher, so I.
• 44:35
  Francine Jordà: Uh, she's sometimes when I was doing French classes online, she would ask me if she could, you know, uh, join us.
• 44:42
  Francine Jordà: And
• 44:42
  Tracy Cartwright: then
• 44:43
  Francine Jordà: sometimes, you know, so now she thinks that I'm doing the same thing, you know, when I have clients.
• 44:48
  Francine Jordà: And then she asked me, can I come and see how, you know, you do your classes?
• 44:51
  Francine Jordà: And then I said, no, mom.
• 44:53
  Francine Jordà: Now it's something different.
• 44:54
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, yeah, it's something, you know, private and, ah, yeah.
• 44:58
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 45:00
  Francine Jordà: So, yes, it's, uh.
• 45:02
  Francine Jordà: But I sometimes I wonder if I understand what I'm doing.
• 45:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Is she living with you or you living with She's living with
• 45:11
  Francine Jordà: you.
• 45:12
  Francine Jordà: I'm at her place.
• 45:13
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 45:13
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 45:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 45:16
  Tracy Cartwright: I think more and more families are going back, are going back to that way.
• 45:21
  Tracy Cartwright: I dunno what it was like in, in, uh, Spain, whether the culture went away from that, did they?
• 45:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Like in European culture, people went away from having the elders at home and um, they would put, yeah.
• 45:37
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 45:37
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Francine Jordà: Here it's, um, not as much, but, uh, yes, partly yes.
• 45:42
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 45:43
  Francine Jordà: And with COVID, I think that was a very important, uh, uh, you know, uh, to have the network to help each other.
• 45:52
  Francine Jordà: And it has, uh, brought families maybe together again.
• 45:56
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 45:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, definitely.
• 45:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 45:58
  Tracy Cartwright: We had, um, mom lived with us for nine years, so it definitely makes a, a,
• 46:03
  Francine Jordà: a
• 46:03
  Tracy Cartwright: unique experience when you have that time with your elders.
• 46:08
  Francine Jordà: Yes.
• 46:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 46:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:11
  Francine Jordà: To give back a bit what you have received from them.
• 46:14
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 46:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
• 46:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Anything that you, that comes to mind that you might like to share or,
• 46:28
  Francine Jordà: um, yeah, just that for me, what drives me right now is, um, uh, so as we said this, there's the tool, family is a tool, but is also for like, philosophy, a way of life and, uh.
• 46:44
  Francine Jordà: For me, what drives me right now is to share how people can do this work on their own.
• 46:50
  Francine Jordà: How can we bring constellations into our everyday life and, uh, practice this muscle of, you know, opening our heart constantly to what is difficult, to opening our heart and saying yes to.
• 47:10
  Francine Jordà: To myself saying most of the difficult ones in my life.
• 47:15
  Francine Jordà: And to say yes to the things that are happening right now in the world, you know, that.
• 47:19
  Francine Jordà: And for me, this is the what drives me because I think, uh, that we can do most of this work on our own.
• 47:31
  Francine Jordà: So we need to go to workshops and cancellations for some topics or some issues, and.
• 47:39
  Francine Jordà: It is also about that internal attitude that we need to
• 47:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm, yes.
• 47:45
  Tracy Cartwright: To practice.
• 47:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 47:46
  Tracy Cartwright: So will you be sharing that in workshops online or in person?
• 47:52
  Francine Jordà: Uh, I'm doing in, in my trainings more and more to share like systemic movements that we can do, and I have been learning this a lot also from Bridget.
• 48:05
  Francine Jordà: Because she's a lot into that too, you know, to how can we become autonomous?
• 48:11
  Francine Jordà: Um, yes.
• 48:12
  Francine Jordà: Because I think we don't have much time, you know, to,
• 48:16
  Tracy Cartwright: oh, that's such a big word.
• 48:18
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, I remember I was, I was sharing with my students on the weekend that I didn't even know what the word autonomy meant.
• 48:28
  Tracy Cartwright: My body had a visceral reaction to it.
• 48:30
  Tracy Cartwright: It was a huge reaction that literally made me wobble and that was, I don't remem know if you remember at the Intensive where I got, uh, had a wee ambulance, right?
• 48:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you remember that one where I got a bit unwell?
• 48:43
  Tracy Cartwright: There was so many things that rose up.
• 48:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Anyway, hearing the word autonomy.
• 48:50
  Tracy Cartwright: I had a real physical reaction to it.
• 48:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 48:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Because, and I didn't know the, what the word meant.
• 48:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Now that I look back, I know that is because I did not have a relationship with with it.
• 49:04
  Tracy Cartwright: My body was not autonomous.
• 49:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, wow.
• 49:08
  Tracy Cartwright: I've done a lot of work, so grateful for the experience.
• 49:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Dramatic as it was at the time, but.
• 49:16
  Tracy Cartwright: I've done a lot of work around it.
• 49:17
  Tracy Cartwright: So, um, and how powerful it is to have that, um, now in my life.
• 49:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Francine Jordà: Beautiful.
• 49:25
  Tracy Cartwright: So beautiful, beautiful exercise that you're talking about there.
• 49:31
  Francine Jordà: That's a, a big process and yeah.
• 49:33
  Francine Jordà: Big work you are doing and we are all doing this.
• 49:38
  Tracy Cartwright: We're all doing it, aren't we?
• 49:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 49:40
  Tracy Cartwright: This, um.
• 49:43
  Tracy Cartwright: I think life is a constellation as it is with the ever evolving things that are happening.
• 49:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Then we have all these little mini ones that pop up in it that can be big ones at the same time.
• 49:53
  Tracy Cartwright: So, so much going on.
• 49:55
  Tracy Cartwright: So if someone wanted to, um, to get a hold of you, can you remind me what your website is?
• 50:02
  Francine Jordà: It's, uh, francine Jordan do com.
• 50:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Just like that.
• 50:06
  Tracy Cartwright: fancy.com?
• 50:08
  Francine Jordà: Mm-hmm.
• 50:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 50:09
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and you're on Facebook and Instagram?
• 50:13
  Francine Jordà: I'm on Facebook only and very little Now I'm
• 50:17
  Tracy Cartwright: just,
• 50:18
  Francine Jordà: okay.
• 50:19
  Francine Jordà: I, I have a newsletter.
• 50:20
  Francine Jordà: Yeah, that's, uh, I like to write articles and then every time I have a new one, then I send a newsletter with a couple of events.
• 50:27
  Francine Jordà: And so if people want to register, then they can contact me and I add them to the list.
• 50:34
  Tracy Cartwright: And are you thinking about making or writing a book?
• 50:38
  Francine Jordà: Um, not a book.
• 50:39
  Francine Jordà: I'm just been writing for years.
• 50:42
  Francine Jordà: And
• 50:43
  Tracy Cartwright: because that was what ca I was like, oh, I think she's writing a book.
• 50:46
  Tracy Cartwright: So I was just, maybe I'm planting a seed.
• 50:48
  Tracy Cartwright: I dunno.
• 50:50
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 50:50
  Francine Jordà: Maybe it's there.
• 50:52
  Francine Jordà: It's there.
• 50:52
  Francine Jordà: But now it's more about, yeah, like, uh, trying to, you know, reflect on this amazing work and experience and trying to put.
• 51:01
  Francine Jordà: Into, towards what's, you know, so difficult to, to, yes.
• 51:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 51:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 51:06
  Tracy Cartwright: It's is, it can be difficult to explain, can't it?
• 51:10
  Tracy Cartwright: But, uh, I'm sure you'll find a, a beautiful way to, to share that.
• 51:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, thank you so much for joining me today to the listeners.
• 51:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, thank you so
• 51:20
  Francine Jordà: much, Tracy.
• 51:21
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 51:21
  Francine Jordà: For doing this.
• 51:23
  Francine Jordà: And, uh, yeah, I have been listening to some of the podcasts and, uh, that's a, a great way to bring this work to the.
• 51:31
  Francine Jordà: Whole community.
• 51:32
  Francine Jordà: Yeah.
• 51:32
  Francine Jordà: Thank you.
• 51:34
  Tracy Cartwright: You are welcome.
• 51:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Welcome.
• 51:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 51:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you for listening.
• 51:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you.
• 51:42
  Tracy Cartwright: With this episode, you'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 51:47
  Tracy Cartwright: That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or.
• 51:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 52:00
  Tracy Cartwright: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.