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The Spiritual and Emotional Price of Debt · The Madison Church Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So to our online audience who are watching Thursday night podcast YouTube welcome, I'm Stephen Feith Lee, pastor.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We're glad that you're here and we hope that you'll join us in person sometime soon.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Start with a little bit of a story.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Today, 1988, 1988, william Budd bought 40 tickets in the state Lottery.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Now, at the time, budd had only five dollars in his check-in account.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: How many?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: No, don't raise your hand.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I was gonna ask how many of you can relate to that?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Don't, don't raise it, it's all right.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Um, he had five dollars.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: We can all relate to that, right?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's honestly.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We've all been there.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: You've had five dollars, you've been overdrawn, we've all been there.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We've all bottomed out that bank account.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: But so he, he buys these 40 tickets and one of them was the winning Lotto ticket.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Good day to be William.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But he won the jackpot, which was 16.2 million dollars.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: You imagine going from five dollars in your bank account to being a multi-millionaire in just a moment.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened to William Budd.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: But over the course of ten years, budd spent and mismanaged his winnings and to the point of he had the auction off the remaining annual payoffs.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: The payoff is debt.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Within a decade, budd once again had only five dollars in his bank account.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: $5 wins the lottery.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: $16 million.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Less than 10 years later, five bucks again in 1993.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: In an interview with Washington Post he said everybody dreams of winning money, but nobody realizes the nightmares that come out of the woodwork or the problems.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I was much happier when I was broke.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I just want peace of mind.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Buds words are a gentle reminder to us today that Money and more money, it's not going to solve our problems.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And for most of us the problem in our lives or the problem with our Finances isn't the amount of resources that we have, but rather our ability or Inability in some cases to make a plan and to stick to that plan.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And in my line of work as a pastor, I get to talk to a lot of people and here are some things that people have never ever told me.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I mean so.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: We've been in Madison.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: We started the church eight and a half years ago, got in the talk about a lot of problems, a lot of issues that people are having.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Here are some things that people have never told me Ever since I got into debt, my marriage has been so much better.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Nobody's ever said that to me.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: The high interest rate on my credit card.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: That is what started helped me sleep better at night.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Nobody has ever said that every day I thank God about all the payments I have to make by the end of the month.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I Know that doesn't surprise any of you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I've never heard those things, but here are some things I do frequently here.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, I wish I could be more generous, or should be more generous, to my church.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I wish it could be more generous to people in need.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I wish I could afford for my spouse to stay at home with the kids.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Wish I didn't have to work two jobs, three jobs, four jobs.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I Wish I could retire early, maybe volunteer for a nonprofit, do more things like that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Now, why do people say these things like I wish, I wish?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I wish Because for for many of them, for many of us, we find ourselves in debt and so we have to work so we can pay off the debt.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And debt is bad, if you didn't know.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: That is bad because it causes stress in our lives.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But it's not just stress in your lives.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: It stresses out our relationships, it stresses out our souls.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Today we're in part two of a series that we're calling finding financial freedom, and I know that this is one of the hardest Topics that we cover every other year at Madison church.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And why I know it's hard is because you've probably heard talks like this and church Before and made you feel guilty, made you feel ashamed or perhaps Manipulated, just made you not feel good.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: So when we come into a church like we are right now, we're at a gathering and we hear that we're in a series called financial freedom, we kind of maybe start off defensive based on our past experiences.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: But it's not just happened in church.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Let's be honest.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Money for most of us talked about.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Growing up was about mom and dad fighting over a kitchen table About how they didn't have enough.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: How are we gonna pay bills or which bills do we pay first.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: It was, it was fought about in a lot of our lives and for us today it's not just childhood, it's not just that church, but I mean look at the economy and all of the things going on right now in the US.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Money today is a source of anxiety for a lot of people.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Either you don't feel like you have enough to make ends meet or you do have a lot of money and you're worried about losing it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Money is a source of anxiety, and the reasons that we don't like talking about money in church or talk about money anywhere Are exactly the reasons that we talk about money at Madison church every other year, because none of that sounds good to me, none of that sounds like freedom and we should be able to as followers of Jesus and I know that everybody is but as followers of Jesus in the room, we're meant to be and live in financial freedom, with financial piece, and it's possible to experience the things that I'm talking about today financial freedom without being a millionaire.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Go back to my story about William.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Budd said I just wish I could go back to having $5 in my account when I had peace of mind.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I want you to know from the onset I don't want anything from you, I want something for you and, as such, I think it's good that I'm transparent about the goals of this series.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: This is part two.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Next week's part three and it's over and what I hope for by next Monday.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: For those of you who have joined us for all three parts if you missed last week, go ahead, catch up on it but my goals are that by next Monday, I have presented you with what the biblical texts some of what the biblical texts talk about when it comes to money and possessions, with the hopes that, too, you draw closer to God during this time.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes in our lives, money and finances possessions keep us from going deeper with God.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: It keeps us from having a better relationship with God and, in the process of doing all of these things, teaching you what the Bible says, getting you closer to God.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I hope that by next Monday, you can say that I have more financial freedom and peace in my life than I did when we started, even though I know for many of you, your financial situation will not have changed in three weeks.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: But that's the power of the God that we were talking about today.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: You may not know this.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: You may know this, but the biblical texts talk about money and possessions more than any other topic altogether.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: It's speculated that about one third of the Bible either directly or indirectly talks about money or possessions, which is great news for all of us.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Today, as we talk about anxiety around money and how we don't have financial freedom or financial peace, it's great that the Bible talks about it.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: It's great that there are answers out there, that we don't have to pay someone a ton of money.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: You can go ahead and take those Bibles if you want home with you.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: It has the advice in there.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Financial freedom isn't contingent on how much money you make or how much you have, which is why last week we began with the big idea that less is more and in a society in which every time you turn on the radio and there's a commercial telling you you need this, you turn on the TV tonight we're gonna be watching the Super Bowl there's gonna be a bunch of commercials, you need the Cheez-Its, you need the Ruffles, you need the beer Like we're always being told and sold that we're just we're one away, right.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Well, last week we said let's deal with the heart issue here, that more isn't always better and that in a lot of cases less is more.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So we began with the heart, because what I have to say today and what we're gonna talk about next week, it'll be no good the advice, the planning, any of it it'll be no good if we don't first realize that it begins with me and a heart and a decision that I'm gonna start living within my means, and that more isn't necessarily better.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Financial stress no matter how good you might be at compartmentalizing your stress, financial stress.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: It permeates all of our lives.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, according to the American Psychological Association, debt within one's personal finances is the leading cause of stress in the United States.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: The leading cause of stress in the United States debt.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Poll after poll continues to show that debt within our personal finances leads to stress, and not just stress with ourselves, but stress in our family.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Remember I talked about when you were a kid and you heard money talked about?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: It was probably stressful for your parents.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: It was stressful for your family as well.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: It also brings a lot of shame, it turns out.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So, according to people who are surveyed in the United States, nearly half the people are ashamed of debt.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: So if we're going to talk about debt today, a lot of you feel ashamed.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You don't want to raise your hand.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You don't want me to ask you questions.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I can put you at ease.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you any questions.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to raise your hand.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Half of us feel ashamed about our debt.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: More than one-third say that they would be embarrassed to let anybody know that they're only paying the minimum payments on their credit cards every month.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So one-third say, hey, I feel ashamed about that.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want people to know that I'm not paying my credit cards off in full, and more than 40% say that they believe they will be judged by their family and friends because of credit card debt, because of the decisions that they make.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: There's a ton of shame and guilt, and yet shame and guilt isn't deterring anyone from getting more debt, right?
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So it's just kind of this lousy feeling that we have about our debt, but it doesn't actually stop us from today, tomorrow, next week, next year, getting more debt.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: The average household is presently carrying just over $122,000 in short-term debt.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: That's not mortgage debt.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: That's just short-term debt, everything besides the mortgage.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: And let's clarify a couple things before we start digging into the proverbs here.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: One sometimes the debt in your life are because of circumstances that are beyond your control.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So let's just acknowledge that on the front side Medical bills, things that insurance didn't cover, you lost your job, the economy, 2020.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: All of those things you might have a lot of debt right now and it might have been out of your control, okay.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So I want to acknowledge that.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: On the front side Also, debt is not God's desire for your life.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: God doesn't want you to feel guilty and ashamed about your financial situation.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: That's not God's desire.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: God has never been in the business of shaming anyone, but rather in the business of faith building.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And God's desire for you.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear this God's desire for every person in this room is to experience joy, to persevere in faith and not lacking in anything.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I talked about that last week.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Right, not lacking in anything and funny enough.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Ironically enough, but maybe not surprising, debt, on the other hand, keeps us from experiencing joy.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: It hurts our faith and we are lacking when we have debt.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: We are lacking A little practical example If you have a $2,000 credit card balance, a credit balance on your credit card, something like an 18% annual fee, making the minimum payment just 2% or $10, whichever is greater will take you 370 months to pay that off just over 30 years.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Does that stress anyone out that idea that you could be paying off a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for the next 30 years?
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I want you to think about this Bottom line it takes less time to have a child, raise a child, send them off into adulthood, than it would be to pay off a credit card with a $2,000 balance.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And that is why debt is stressful.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: It is Now.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: What does the Bible have to say about debt?
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And the Bible does have a lot to say about debt.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: God speaks to people and through people, all the time about this very topic, and so, if you want to follow along, today we're going to be bouncing around the proverbs, which is right in the middle of your Bible.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So proverbs are a collection of wisdom writings by several authors, and proverbs, in a lot of cases, are written like if you do this, then this will happen, and it's not always a direct cause and effect.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I want you to think of it more like when you do this or when you tend to do this, this is what tends to happen.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: So it's not saying, if you were to go out and do this once, that this is exactly what's going to happen, but if you live this way, this is what's likely going to happen, and if you don't live this way, this is what's likely going to happen.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And so in proverbs 22, which is where we're going, we're going to find out that doesn't just affect us mentally, that doesn't just affect us physically.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We're holistic.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: What affects me physically affects me emotionally and spiritually.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: What affects me spiritually will affect me physically, emotionally.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So have we ever considered that maybe debt, the debt that we have, isn't just a financial problem or an emotional problem, but that debt is also a spiritual problem as well?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Proverbs 22.7,.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: The writer says the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is a slave to the lender.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: You're probably familiar with this one, this one's common.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm starting with it, this proverb, though.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about two warnings that it has.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: The one that's kind of obvious is it's warning that when we incur debt, we're in bondage to whoever has loaned us the money.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: We're in bondage to them.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It's like we're a slave.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: But the other kind of warning is, if we are somebody who has money, if we're somebody who has resources, that we're not supposed to exploit those with less.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: That's the dual message.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: On the one hand, if I go off and I get a bunch of debt, I find myself in bondage.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, if I'm somebody who has a lot of money and I've been entrusted with this to steward this I should not exploit those beneath me.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: As a result, because of debt, we lack freedom and we don't have the relationships that we should have, because the debt absolutely affects us and it affects our relationship.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: We can't just serve God alone.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: God can't be the king of our heart and the only one we serve.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: If we're enslaved to someone else, if we have divided loyalties this is what happens Then this is why we experience the stress in our souls.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Then what happens?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: We go back to that idea of shame and guilt.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I'm stressed because I have debt, but that doesn't keep me from getting more debt.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I get more debt, so I get more stress.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It affects my relationship with God, but because I'm embarrassed about it, I'm not going to talk to anyone about it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: It's this vicious cycle that continues to go on and on.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: We're talking about it today.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I want to share with you two prayers that I think are going to help you take some next steps that are important.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: As Dan mentioned at the beginning, we absolutely believe in the power of prayer.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: When we're talking about doing hard things, like getting out of debt or paying off some debt, we should absolutely begin with prayer.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I know it's counterintuitive, but I'm guessing that you've tried to pay off debt before.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: For a lot of us, we came up short, we failed.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: We're starting over again.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: We got more debt.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Let's try something different this time.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Let's try something different.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Let's begin with prayer.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: The first prayer I want you to begin to pray is God, please give me self-control.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: We know that self-control is the fruit of the spirit, so we're just asking God God, give me more of your spirit, and give me more of your spirit in the area of self-control.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Proverbs 25-28 says like a city whose walls are broken down, as a person who lacks self-control.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Self-control is where we start, so that's why we pray God, please give me self-control.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: And if you think about the imagery of a city that doesn't have walls, doesn't have a defense, anything or anyone could come into the city and take it over.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: This is what happens with our hearts.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: If we have no self-control, then anything and anyone could come in and hijack our hearts.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I got this really funny email.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Actually, this verse made me think of the email.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I got this email a few months ago.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: It's from Tom's, the company that makes the shoes.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I like Tom's shoes and so I get their emails every now and then, and they noticed that I hadn't bought shoes in a while from them, and so they presumed it was a financial thing.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And it sort of is.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I don't need 20 pairs of shoes, right?
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So seven days a week, I don't need 20 pairs of shoes, but I get this email from Tom's.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: They're presuming that I can't afford it and they said we have an offer for you today.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I know you guys get these emails too.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: They're like you can make four payments on these $60 shoes.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: We'll mail them out to you today.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And I thought if I didn't have self-control I could get the shoes today and I don't have to pay for them until next month, and then I don't even have to pay for them all together.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I have four months to pay for it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: If I didn't have self-control, I would for sure do that.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And Megan, my wife she helps me with my self-control because if she sees another Tom's box come in the mail, she will help me have more self-control.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Some of you know what I'm saying here, but I thought how many of us get that though?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: We get those emails.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Here's this deal this Friday, only black Friday.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: We get these deals and we're like if we don't have self-control, we're gonna bite, we're gonna do it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And those ads and the people get paid millions of dollars to market and promote their Brands to us.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: They get inside of our hearts and so we pray for self-control so that way there's nothing wrong with Tom's shoes, there's nothing wrong with buying nice things, there's nothing wrong with a deal, but the point is is that if I don't have self-control and I just buy these things that I don't need, that's contributing to the problem of having more and more debt?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Self-control will be the difference of living within your means and Doing good things, like having a savings account for the emergencies, versus living beyond your means and then, when that emergency does come up it, you panic and you stress out even more.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: The second prayer is God, help me make a plan.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so first, god, give me the self-control.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I need self-control and how I'm gonna live that out is God, help me make a plan.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: For a lot of us, we just live way above our means.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: We know that we should prioritize our finances and we just don't do it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Megan and I, when we got married, we had an incredible amount of debt.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: We're both around 20 years old and it was like the credit card companies and the banks they whatever we wanted, they gave us, and we didn't have the self-control, we didn't have their guard up.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Fifth, third bank was like we'll give you a card of cards, got paid for your honeymoon, right, man.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I was like you're right, I do.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: And they're like, well, you know, you only get married once, right?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I mean ideally, I was like you're right, yeah, yeah, it's like go big.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: And so we just kept taking it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And then you know, you're at the, the diamond store and I'm buying a ring to ask Megan to marry me.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And he's like, well, how much you know?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I mean he didn't say this, but you know his whole pitch was how much you love her, because we have the like her rings down here.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, I'll pay it off, I don't have to worry about it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But I got to the point where we were.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: We were just crushed by our debt.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I've joked before that like a hot date for us was one of those $5 hot and ready pizzas and a dollar movie from the family video.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: But I'm not like it's a joke now, ha ha, 10 years later.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: But that was like not ha ha.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That was my reality on Friday night a long time ago, was like here's my six bucks, because this is all we have.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: And it got to the point where it's like we were so broken financially that Megan and I just said, okay, god, we need self-control, we need to be able to start saying no, live within our means.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: But we knew that we needed to make a plan.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: We knew we needed to make up and that it needed to be a different plan than just saying yes all the time.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: You need to be a different type of plan.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And so we're like well, we're followers of Jesus.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: The Bible talks more about this topic than anything else, so we need to, like, realign our entire lives around that and run our financial decisions through the filter of Faith, and that's where we started.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: That was the start of our plan.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Now Maybe you're already there.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: That's part of your plan that you've already figured out.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a follower of Jesus, so I'm gonna run my, my finances through a filter of faith.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: But maybe you're not there, and so that's where we're gonna begin.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But we begin to build on that, and so if you're already there and you're taking Steps, then we begin to say, okay, well, what part of my plan needs improving?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: What part of my plan do I need to change and to tweak?
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: It's helpful, when you have a plan, to be able to see what money is coming in and where it's going, and a lot of us are Surprised at how much of our income.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: We're eating and drinking, right.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: We go to the Starbucks like it's only five dollars.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: What's only five dollars a day for, you know, 30 days in a row.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Now, all of a sudden, like our Starbucks bill is like a small car payment.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: We're like what, why are we doing this?
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: And but you don't realize it's happening until we have a plan in place.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And again, this is biblical Proverbs 21 5 the plans of the diligent lead to profit as surely as haste leads to poverty.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: So the plans, the plans, what is it?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: The plans that lead to profit?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Again, that doesn't mean that if you have a budget, that you're gonna be a multi-millionaire next week.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Remember, we talked about that at the beginning with the proverbs.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: It's more like, if you live this way, this is what tends to happen and what the proverbs writer is saying right now if you tend, if you have a plan and you're diligent, then this is going to tend to lead to profit.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Just like if you were hasty and you made one bad decision, it doesn't mean that your life is over If you're, you know, I think it's Dave Ramsey who says if you've made a bad financial decision, what's that make you, you know, over the age of 12.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we've all every person in here has made a bad financial decision.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Your life's not over, but let's get in front of it now and begin to develop a plan.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: For example, when we're talking about haste and making those quick decisions, it could be like I talked about last week when I get bored, I like to just go to the Home Depot, and I'm you know that's a problem for me.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I just go to the Home Depot.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I already know in the back of my mind the tool I want, and now I'm flirting with it.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: It's like a date.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I got a little time, I'll just go to Home Depot.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, walking by the nail gun, I'm thinking about all the new trim in my house and just like, yeah, the nail gun, I don't need it, though I got a million other projects I need to finish before I start.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, as I walk up another aisle and I always find myself right back.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And so, look, haste is like just slowing down.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Don't do the retail therapy, steven, have a plan.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And so what goes in my trunk only goes in there if it's in my budget, and if it's not my budget, it's not going in my trunk.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: That's my new thing after last week when I walked away from my own message saying haste is very, very common.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: One study showed that over half of Americans, or 50% of Americans, don't have a financial plan in place.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So if we were to take a blind poll in the room, about half of you say well, there's no financial plan.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: The plan is I get paid, you know, the envelope comes in, I owe them money, I send them the check and so that is the plan.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It's just kind of very reactive and we need to be more proactive.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I love what Pastor Craig Rochelle says.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: He says you can wander into debt, as a lot of us have.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: You can wander into debt, but you'll never wander out of debt.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: You can stumble into debt, but you'll never stumble out of debt.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: You can mistake your way into debt, but you'll never mistake your way out of debt.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I love that, and it's so true Because in a lot of us we wandered, we stumbled, we made mistakes.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: We find ourselves in debt.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Like I said, you're an adult today great.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But if we want to get in front of this, to be proactive, to live in a godly way with our finances, we can't wander our way out of it or into it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: We can't stumble our way into it.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: It's not gonna be on accident that we begin to live the way that God wants us to.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: And so some practical next steps, some practical challenges for you.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Some of you have never made a budget before.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: That's the first step.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Make a budget this week.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: And you're saying how do I do this?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I Googled it Like the first 20,000 are great, okay.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So I mean, like I don't have a preference.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Pick one that works for you.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: At our church we do financial piece university with Dave Ramsey.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I understand that some people have a problem with Dave Ramsey and financial piece.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: That's fine, don't use that.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: But there are other options.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Not one person has this figured out.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: So begin with a budget.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Others of us, we do have a budget, and my question, my challenge for you, is when was the last time you checked in on it?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: So at some point maybe it was years ago you made a budget and you haven't checked on it since.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Well, today sounds like a really good day.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: This week sounds like a good week to go back and check your budget and evaluate it.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So when you say that you're only spending $600 or $800 a month on groceries, how have you been doing the last couple of months on that?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, do you know?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And if you don't know, like it'd be good to start to figure that out.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And if you're one of the few people only 16% of Americans are defined as a highly disciplined financial planner there's somebody who have a budget.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: They look at it every month only 16%.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: If you're one of those people, please consider serving your church family, your church community, by leading or co-leading a financial piece university this summer.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: That's how you can help.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Now, for some of you, you're listening to this message and you say I've got a budget, I've got a plan, I'm not in debt.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm really thinking less is more here.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: What do I take from this?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: And I've been talking to Lindsay a little bit about this and I think sometimes we just need the reminder and if that does describe you that like you are doing all these things already, you just need the reminder and the reassurance.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: You're doing great.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: You're doing great, that's awesome.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Keep it up.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we're doing the right things and we forget why we ever started doing them.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And when we forget our why, why we started doing them that's when we begin to drift and do other things, and so if you're someone in here, you have the budget.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: You're not.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: You know you're paying off the debt.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: You're.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: You're out of debt.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Any of those things.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I just want to say great job.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I want to encourage you.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: You're doing the right things.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Don't give up.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Continue to do it and see who you can help all around you.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: It is hard to stick to plans.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: It requires you to tell yourself no things that you really want.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: But let me tell you my family has had some really lean years.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Lean years Not just when we first got married, but when we moved to Madison.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: It was very lean.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And then when I went from a Starbucks manager and I was making better money than when I came and started working full time here and that was very lean.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And then we just recently did it again.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: And then our manager, megan, was working as a 4k teacher out in Wanaki and she's taken a step back to get back into the public school system and she's working as a parent, and that's that's the decision that's going to cost our family thousands of dollars this year alone.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So we know what it's like.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: We're right there with you, we're in it.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a pastor, she's an educator, okay so, and we knew what we were getting into when we chose our fields and our industries.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: But we've had lean years and it's easy in this time to just thank for Megan and I say oh man, if you know, if we just made a little bit more money, all of our problems would go away when we first got married.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: If we just had a little bit more money, the problems would go away.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: When I went from Starbucks to here, we just had a little bit more money.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But the truth was that wasn't the case, because when we first got married, the issue was we were spending way more than we had.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: So if we had more money, we would have just spent more than that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: It's always a heart issue and in this case, with Megan taking the job in the public schools, this is a step of faith for us.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So the answer isn't more money for us, this is a step of faith Long term.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: This is what she wants to do and this is where she wants to be.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: But I want to also encourage you today that you're not alone.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: If you are feeling like you have debt, you don't have to be ashamed, you don't have to feel guilty in this place.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: You're loved.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: We care about you.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: We know the reality is that people have debt.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: We want to help you.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: We want to help your life be completely different.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I want to keep casting this vision of you.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Know, how cool would it be, what kind of bright light would it be, how missional would it be If the people around us in Madison, our neighbors, our coworkers, they were stressed about money, but they're like you know, those weirdos at Madison Church.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: They have financial peace.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Isn't that weird?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be a bright light in the city?
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And it's not something that you necessarily say, that they've already heard before, but it's a way that you live.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And you said because I follow Jesus, look at how my life is different and this is why I don't have debt, this is why I live within my means.