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Hell and Gone Murder Line: Christina Pipkin Part 4 (Archive Episode) · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:46
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: As a lot of you probably already know. While I've
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: been working on the Christina Pipkin case, I've also been
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: exploring other unsolved deaths in Arkansas. Right now, I'm looking
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: at an article from the Commercial Appeal newspaper came out
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: on Thursday, June third, nineteen ninety three. The title of
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: the article is Authorities wonder if six kids deaths in
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: East Arkansas are related. Those children in the article referred
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: to were Christina Pipkin, who, as we know, went missing
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: in May of nineteen ninety one. And also Steve Branch,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers, the three eight year old
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: boys who were murdered in West Memphis in nineteen ninety three.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: It also includes sixteen year old Guardinia Cross and thirteen
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: year old Geneva Smith. Guardina and Geneva's bodies were found
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: near Wynn, Arkansas, just a few miles from Hickory Ridge.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: To be honest, I haven't seen any obvious connections between
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: these children in East Arkansas. As we said before, these
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: children were different ages, some were different races, and they
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: had very different life circumstances. The boys in West Memphis
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and Guardinia Cross had been brutalized, while in Christina's case
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: there didn't it appear to be any outward signs of violence.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So just on the surface, it does not seem like
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: this was the work of a single serial killer.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: But there are a lot of weird coincidences in these cases.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: In fact, in three of the four cases, suspects were
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: arrested but ultimately released. All of these children were found
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in or near bodies of water, and all of them
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: are unsolved.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Helen Gone. I've learned that there is no such thing
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: as a small town where murder never happens. I've received
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and their communities.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: If you have a case.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: You'd like me and my team to look into, you
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: can reach out to us at our Hell and Gone
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six'
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: one four. Five that's six seven eight seven four four
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: six one four or. Five this Is Helen Gone Murder.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Line i'm making my way through all these freedom of
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: information Requests i've done over the past few. Weeks, obviously
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: we Have Christina pipkins case, file though there do appear
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: to be some doctor Kim it's, missing including crime scene.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Photos The Arkansas State police told me they believe The
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Genevas smith case is still, open so they were not
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: able to provide me with any information from that case.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: File and they weren't able to Find Guardina cross's case at.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: All they said they had no record of it at
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: The Arkansas State. Police, now this could just mean that
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: this case file is with the. COUNTY i filed a
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: request In Cross county And.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: I'll let you all know what.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Happens but even though the circumstances of all these children's
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: deaths were so, DIFFERENT i want to take a look
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: at some of the seemingly odd similarities.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: In Christina pipkins.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Case remembered there was a, Suspect Robbie. Tubbs he was
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: arrested years later in nineteen ninety, nine and then he
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: was later released due to some pretty catastrophic mistakes with
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: the hair fiber evidence that was. Found in nineteen ninety.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Two Geneva's smith was thirteen years. Old she left home
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: to get on the school, bus and she never came.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: BACK a few days, later her body was found floating
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: in The Saint Francis. River her remains were badly, decomposed
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: so much that it was hard to identify. HER i
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: was struck by the fact that there is very little
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: About Geneva smith's murder out. There the theories about who
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: killed her if you look on online, forums ranged from
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: a serial killer to THE kkk to a member of
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: her extended. Family, basically it's a mixed bag and no
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: one seems to have any real. Answers there was an
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: arrest In geneva's, case but like In Christina pipkins, case
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the arrest came years.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Later In november of nineteen ninety.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Nine the same year when police were building a case
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Against Robbie tubbs For Christina pipkins, murder two men Named
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Johnny key And Freddie jones were arrested and charged With
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Geneva smith's. Murder police did not say much at the,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: time but apparently the case depended on the cooperation of
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: a key. WITNESS i found this from a local newspaper
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: back in the. Day it, read Quote Freddy, jones twenty
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: six Of earl And Johnny, key thirty six Of parkin
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: appeared Before Judge RICHARD. L proctor On monday and were
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: bound over To Cross County Circuit court to stand trial
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: on one count of capital. Murder the article goes on
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: to Say Sheriff Ronnie baldwin Said rinne page twenty two
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: of when was also arranged on a charge of hindering
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: apprehension of a suspect in connection with The smith.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Case she was.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Being held in The Cross county Jail monday on unrelated
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: charges when she was arrested in connection with the.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Murder end.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Quote so the newspaper brings up two male suspects and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: one female who they believe were involved In Geneva smith's.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Murder the newspaper also talked to the, sheriff and the
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: article mentioned that the sheriff said that he had worked
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: with The Arkansas State police Investigator dale One. Arnold remember
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: that's the same investigator who also worked On Christina pipkin's.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Case the sheriff said that he And.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Dale arnold felt they finally had enough information to make
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: some arrest and the article said that all three of these,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Suspects Johnny, Key Freddie, jones And Irene, page had all
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: been interviewed by police back in nineteen ninety two When
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Geneva smith originally went. Missing police seemed fairly confident that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: they had a, case but then something. Happened apparently their
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: key witness had a change of. Heart the, Sheriff Ronnie,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: baldwin later confirmed. This he told the newspaper the case
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: had fallen apart when that witness backed. Out So i'm
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: wondering about the woman who was. Arrested if she was
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the witness and was twenty two years old in nineteen ninety,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: nine that would mean that she would have been around
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: sixteen years, old just three years older.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Than geneva back When geneva was.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Killed so Now i'm wondering who was this, woman what
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: was her connection To Geneva? Smith and it's been years
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: since these suspects were questioned and later. Released is law
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: enforcement planning on building that case any? Further have they
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: developed any new, suspects do they have any new leads at?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: All and if, not would they consider turning over this
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: case file and making it public like they have With
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Christina pipkins's. CASE i am not sure what the decision
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: will be In Geneva smith's. CASE i do Know arkansas
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: has made new rules to classify cases as officially cold
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: when they've been unsolved for two years or.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: More maybe they will release part of the case.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: FILE i do hope they'll consider it because In christina's
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: case it has.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Helped i've only been.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Working on this case for a few, weeks and even
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: though it has been almost thirty years Since Christina pipkin
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: went missing and her body was, Found we've been able
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: to find a lot of people who've never been interviewed
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: by the. Police we've also gotten a lot of names
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: out of the case file and we were able to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: find a lot of.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Them as a result of, that we are filling in the.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: BLANKS i would love to be able to do the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: same thing For Geneva smith's.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Case so if.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Someone out there knows someone who Knew Geneva, smith anyone
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: in her, family her, friends or anyone who saw, ANYTHING
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: i would love to hear from these. PEOPLE i did
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: some very preliminary online sleuthing to try and find the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: people who were charged With geneva's murder and what happened to.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: THEM i Found Freddie. Jones it wasn't too hard because
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: he's now in. Prison Freddie jones has a fairly long criminal,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: record according to court. Records in twenty, seventeen he was
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: sentenced to forty years for aggravated robbery of A valero
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: gas station In. Fayetful he also got an additional five
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: years for carrying a firearm because he was a. Felon
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: according to court, documents this length of, sentence which does
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: seem very, long was due to his status as an habitual.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Offender so let's go back to the newspaper article for a.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Minute the ONE i talked about at the top of the,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: episode the one that talked about potential connections in these
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: child death. Cases the Reporter Rob johnson talked about sixteen
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: year Old Guardina, cross who was murdered in nineteen ninety.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Two guardina was sixteen years old and in tenth grade
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: At Wynn High school On october fourteenth in nineteen ninety,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: two she disappeared that same day On More, road right
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: outside of when a guy was collecting. Cans when he
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: found her body on the side of the, Road guardina
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: was naked except for a Bra her skull had been
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: pierced and punctured with a small. Object police thought it
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: could be some type of, tool maybe something like a.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Screwdriver forensic testing later revealed that at the time of her,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Death guardina was around five months pregnant.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And then there were.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Crickets there was nothing more THAT i could find really
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: ever reported about this, case BUT i think the Reporter
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Rob johnson got some crucial. Information he went to Interview
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: guardinia's great, Grandmother Hattie. Cross he found out That guardina
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: already had a two year old. Daughter that means That
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: guardania's daughter must have been born around the Time guardania
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: was around fourteen years. Old he was also the person
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: who reported that she was five months pregnant at the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: time for.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Death, NOW i don't want to rush to.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Conclusions the killer could have been a, stranger this could
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: have been a random. Attack but we also know that,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: sadly pregnancy can be one of the most dangerous times
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: of a woman's.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Life one of.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: The leading cause of death of pregnant women In america is.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Homicide SO i want to know where that baby's father,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: is if that person was ever, questioned maybe there was
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: someone who was not happy about her, pregnancy and these
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: are all things that we have to. Consider coming back
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: to The Christina pipkin, Case i've been going through the
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: case file and trying to reach out to people the police,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: interviewed and WHEN i, did as you probably already, know
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of. Discrepancies not only THAT i
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: saw something in this Case i've never had happened before
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: in Anything i've ever. Investigated one of the biggest issues
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: we've had in trying to review this case file is
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the fact that basically none of the interviews were. Transcribed
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: everything is just these, brief typed, reports so there are
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of mistakes in. Those i've seen errors made
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: in police reports, before But i've seen mistakes In christina's
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: case unlike Anything i've ever. Seen in our last, EPISODE
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: i talked To Donna. King now in the case, file
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: there is a police report where an investigator said he
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: spoke To Donna. King she told them that on the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Night Christina pipkin went, missing she Saw Charles cotton's, Wife Rebecca,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: cotton walking on the side of the, road and That
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Charles cotton was approaching her on a three. Wheeler this
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: was a very detailed description of what. Happened, apparently according to.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Police donna said she Observed Rebecca cotton, crying looking annoyed
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: At charles and not getting on the three. Wheeler Then
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Charles cotton apparently left and came back in a. Vehicle
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: this was a few minutes, later and he Picked Rebecca
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: cotton up and they left together in the. Car the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: only problem Is Donna king said that this was absolutely
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: not what she said to the. Police she is insistent
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: that she never Saw Rebecca cotton on the Night Christina
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: pipkin went. Missing Donna king said that part of the
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: story was. Correct she was out of town that. Day
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: she and her husband had gone To, memphis but she
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: said as soon as she got back in, town she
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: met up with.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: A friend of.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Hers the friend Of donna's who she met up with
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: is actually someone else we've spoken. To there were two
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: cashiers at The bearcat who we've talked to so. Far
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: the woman all Call cashier number one served the mysterious
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: stranger who came in at around five point forty. Five
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: she's the one who worked on the composite drawing with.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Police there was another, cashier we'll call Her cashier number
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: two now cashier. Too was working in the back section
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: of the store where the video rentals happened for most
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: of the, night but between seven and nine pm she
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: worked the main. Register After donna came back to, town
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: she met up With cashier number. Two, together they rode
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: around and looked For Christina, pipkin and they both confirmed
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: each other's. Stories they said they never Saw Rebecca cotton that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Night WHEN i Asked donna what she thinks, happened she
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: believes that maybe the police officers got her story mixed
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: up with someone. Else's this sounds, crazy but it's actually
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: not that hard to, believe because even more to disturbing
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: than the wrong, Information donna, said the police included in
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: that report was what she said they left. Out donna
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: said that the next day After christina went, missing she
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: saw a stranger in a brown car near the area
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Where christina's body was. Found she is adamant she said
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: she described that person and that vehicle to the, Police
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: but there's no record of that brown car anywhere in
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: the case. File so the question is where did the
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: police get the information about the person who supposedly Saw
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Rebecca cotton on the side of the road that, Night
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and if that person Wasn't Donna, king who was. It
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: in the last, episode we talked about a couple of.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: The names who keep coming up in this, case AND
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: i want to give you all an.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Update we have gotten more information about a friend Of Robbie,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: tuff the man Named, jackie the person WHO i referred
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to As jackie Question mark in last week's.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Episode because we didn't know his last, name we were
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: able to get his last.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Name i've been exchanging messages with a couple of different
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: young women who told me That jackie, was in their,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: words creepy and that he made her and several other
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: young women very. UNCOMFORTABLE i wanted to Track jackie. DOWN
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: i wanted to ask him questions About Robbie tubbs.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: And about what went on around the time When christina went.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: MISSING i wanted to know Word jackie And robbie in
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: or Near Hickory ridge that, day BUT i found out
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: That jackie passed away in two thousand and. Eight, sadly
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: this is another dead. End the second cashier at The
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: bearcat who we talked to in the last, episode told
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: us about the fear and panic that broke out in
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the town After christina went.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Missing she described what the atmosphere was like the next.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: Day i'm at work at twelve At bearcat and it
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: was just, horrific, uh seeing it was it was horrific
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: and how awesome at the sun time that so many
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: people we're, There we're on the, street we're in the parking,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: lot we're you, know gathered together to try to you,
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: know set up. Teams you, know the community really came.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Together and she noticed the same thing THAT i.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Noticed she noticed That Charles cotton seemed to have been
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: very involved in the search For Christina. Pipkins she also
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: found it out she said he wasn't someone who appeared
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to know the family, well And james had said he
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: just Met Charles cotton through his neighbors she.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: MAY i, MEAN i, thought is he really trying to
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: make an? Incursion and it was just like glaved in the,
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: family it seem.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Like AND.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: I was just, like you, know of course we were
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: all wanting to search and look, absolutely.
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: BUT i mean THEN i you, know came. Down there
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: was a lot of, pubblists AND i just put it
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: as you, know he was just want attention AND i didn't.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Really you, know thinkko much more about.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: It with help from some sources in, TOWN i have
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: mapped out the rest Of christina's neighborhood and there are
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: other people WHO i would like to. LOCATE i have
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: verified through multiple sources who were living in the neighborhood
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: at the, time That Charles cotton and his family, were
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: contrary to what his Wife rebecca told the, police living
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in a house just a couple of doors down from The.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Pipkins there was also another young family. There they lived
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: in a, Trailer they had several, children and according to the,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: neighbors they were only there for a few. Months apparently
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the family was from Around, bedeville the area near Where
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: christina's body was. Found now people say this family was
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: not around for a long time they weren't sure of
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the exact. Dates BUT i would like to know who
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: those people, were AND i would like to talk to
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: them because if they left abruptly After christina went, missing
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: that's something we need to check. Out we know from
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: past cases that people who show up in town and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: leave shortly after a suspicious death need to be thoroughly.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Vetted AND i want.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: To go back and ask something that may seem, Obvious
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: but since part of this is investigating the investigation, itself
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: we have to double check.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Everything we need to.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Know how can we be sure That Christina pipkin drowned
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and how can we be sure that it was definitely
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: not an accidental. DROWNING i want to take a step
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: back for a, minute because there's been a lot of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: discussion During christina's case about what we can learn from
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: the limited facts we have without an autopsy.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Report so let's talk about.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Drowning according to report ON Nbc, news deaths by drowning
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: are super. Challenging they're among the hardest for investigators to.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Prove the way that medical examiners figure out that a
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: death is by drowning is basically by the process of,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: elimination they have to rule out everything.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: ELSE a lot of children drown in The United states every.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Year according to a twenty twenty three article In The New,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: yorker The centers For Disease control And prevention has listed
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: drowning as the number one cause of death for young,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: children which they define is age one to, four And
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: arkansas has one of the highest rates of childhood drowning
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: in the, country according to a study done By Quote,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: wizard the third highest in the. Nation between twenty eighteen
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: and twenty, twenty that were twenty five fatal drownings In.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Arkansas thirteen of those were children under the age of.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Five so how do we know if a body found
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: in water did drown and if that drowning was intentional or?
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Accidental in, water bodies tend to sink first and then
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: rise to the surface in, warm shallow water like At
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Cawlake ditch as gases in the body accumulated from the decomposition.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Process this would have taken around seventy two. Hours christina's
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: body was found three days after she went. Missing water
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: investigations have come a long way in the past three.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Decades now there are training seminars for investigators who are
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: processing homicides that involve a body of. Water there are
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a few different types of scenarios that can occur. Here
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: you have people who are killed on land and then
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: dumped into the water as they are dead or, dying
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: people who actually drowned in the body of, water and accidental.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Drownings they all have some distinctive. Characteristics we know That
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: christina could have accidentally drowned because she couldn't. Swim that
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: would have made. Sense but the first question homicide investigators
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: are told to ask is if the victim's location makes,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: sense and In christina's, case it did. Not it made
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: zero sense that she would suddenly be miles away from
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: home right before dark when she had been hanging around
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: very close to her house all. Day but even though
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: crime scene investigation techniques are, improving killers can still have
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of evidence in pools of dirty. WATER i
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: use a textbook for all of my. INVESTIGATIONS i carry
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: it around everywhere with, me so at this point it's
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: kind of falling. Apart but it's called practical Homicide. Investigations
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: i've talked about it. Before it's by a FORMER nypd
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: homicide detective Named vernon. Debirth it's become the textbook that
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of police departs and used to train their.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Detectives in this, book he describes a lot of staged
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: crime scenes involving, drowning and he has a lot of
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: examples summer cases where the victim was drowned elsewhere like a,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: bathtub and then taken and dumped into the body of. Water,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: remember a lot of people thought this was what could
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: have happened To Christina. Pipkin but we know the evidence
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: In christina's case indicates the mud and water found In
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: christina's lungs did match the water in Cal Lake. Ditch
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: i've also talked to a family member and this person
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: is attempting to Access christina's autopsy.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: REPORT i hope that we can get.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Access to that because there are a lot of THINGS
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: i think we could potentially. Learn among the QUESTIONS i
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: have are THESE i want to know if there was
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: any white foam. Present it's called haemorrhagic edema. Fluid this
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: foam forms as a result of mucus from the throat
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: mixing with water and. Blood it's a major indication the
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: person may have, drowned and we don't know from Doctor
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Fawmi malik the Medical examiner's. Report if that was, present
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: we do. Know Doctor malick said there were no signs of.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Violence he said he didn't find signs of a, struggle no,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: bruising no obvious signs of, strangulation nothing to, show for,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: example that someone held her head under water.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Forcibly but maybe there are other clues in the, report.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Something that could tell us if she had less obvious
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: signs like the broken blood, vessels that could be indicative of. Strangulation,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: ALSO i would love to know Did christina have anything
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: in her? Hands this could tell us if she was
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: grabbing at, something for, example when she was in the.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Water if, not this could indicate she was unconscious when
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: she went into the.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Water AND i know that it's been a long, time
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: but don't.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Forget sometimes major breakthroughs can be made by a second,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: look even decades.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Later THE nbc report had an.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Example the news channel talked to a case From illinois
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: where a woman had drowned in a bathtub and basically
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: there was no sign of a struggle or forced. Entry at,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: first it was ruled an, accident but eventually investigators brought
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a new pathologist in and that person found bruises on
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the victim's, elbows bruises that forensic testing had. Missed, later
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: police focused on this woman's. Husband they were able to
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: find insurance policies that the husband had taken out and his.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Wife they eventually found a, motive but they wouldn't have
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: even looked for that motive if they had not first
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: gone back over the. Forensics this is What i'm trying to,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: do both with the autopsy report and with the case.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: File but, again because the police reports were so, Vague
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: i've been really struggling with being able to verify concrete
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: times in any part of this.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Report which brings me back to the very beginning of the.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Case one of the only things that we have a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: time for a definite time is that. Movie And i've
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: been thinking about that movie That Jane pipkin was watching
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: since this case. Started In james's, statement he said On
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Saturday may, fourth he said that he was taping the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Movie The hunt For Red october and he was starting
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: to watch it while it, taped and that during that
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: movie he became concerned That christina had not come, home
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: and that's when he started looking for. Her let's take
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a step back let's track everyone who said they Saw
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Christina pipkin for sure that, day at least according to
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the police reports in the Case faul after the family
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: came back from their, Errands Christina pipkin was at her
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: home On Doty street by round four. Pm that's when The,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: fords the neighbors whose yard backed up to The pipkin,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: house Saw christina playing out in her. Backyard shortly after,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: That christina left the house to sell. Jewelry she had
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: her flyer showing the different types of jewelry people could
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: buy with. Her that's around When Elsie, lyles The pipkins
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: neighbor and the person who sometimes based he Sat, christina
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Saw christina and gave her a pickle as a. Snack
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: christina ate the pickle and she Left elsie's, house Telling
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: elsie she'd be back for. Dinner elsie Said christina never
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: showed after Leaving. Elsie's during that, Afternoon christina was walking
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: around the area around the Bear cat in the. Bank,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: again this is a very small, area but a lot
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: of people were coming through the main drag around. Then
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: because if you want to get cigarettes or, snacks the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: bear cat was pretty much the only game in. Town
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: we know that around five forty five, pm the first
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: cashier we spoke, to the one who was working the
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: register for most of the, day said she saw the,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: stranger the one who came into the store and looked
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: a little Like Richard, gear the guy she later identified
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: in a composite.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Photo she said that he came in to buy a
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: pack Of Warboro.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Reds he parked his, car a brown, sedan not, blue
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: as the police wrote in their, report way up on the.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Sidewalk then he got in his car and.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Left the cashier said the stranger came and went just
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: a few minutes After christina and some other kids were
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: walking through milling around The bearcat grocery. Store christina was
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: going to and from the area right around her. House
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: at around five, Thirty Ricky dawson and his Friend James,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: bashers who were next door at The moor's, house Saw
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: christina on the porch of her. House by around six,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Thirty christina was back at the Bear. Cat that's when
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: her math, Teacher Miss, lamb told police that she Saw
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: christina and briefly talked to her sometime before, dark which
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: was around eight. Pm the other, cashier cashier number, two
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the cashier we talked, to who police never, interviewed said
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: she Saw christina in the. Store she said she knew
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: for sure this happened before. Dark she remembered the street
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: lights were not on. Yet Then christina. Left, Frida christina's,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: mom told police she went to The bearcat's store at
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: around seven thirty. Pm she bought some, groceries hung around
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: for a few, minutes.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: And then went back. Home after she got home and
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: started cooking.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Dinner this is When James pipkin said they started watching
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: the Movie The hunt For Red. October they got worried
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: That christina hadn't come, home And freda Sent christina's Brother
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: adam out to look for. Her When adam came back
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and said he hadn't seen, Her frida left the house
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: to look for. Her but here's where it gets, interesting
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Because james says in the police report, QUOTE i got
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: THE vcr ready to Tape The hunt For Red. October
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the movie came on AND i started taping. IT i
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: started getting worried That christina had not come home, yet
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: so we started looking for.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Her this was around eight. Pm end.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Quote this was one concrete time that we could sort
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: of frame everything else, Around SO i got a little
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: obsessed when figuring out what time this movie. Aired back
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: in the, nineties before streaming SERVICES hbo And, cinemac movies
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: aired on a national. Schedule it was broken into different time,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: zones but basically it was exactly the same air date
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: around the, country so we should be able to verify.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: That there's just one.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Problem WHEN i found the commercial for the movie on
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: YouTube and an old Guide Red, OCTOBER i found out
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: that The hunt For Red october aired in that region
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: On friday, night Not, saturday the Day christina went. Missing
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: so if that's, True james could not have been taping
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: The hunt For Red october On saturday night that movie
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: aired On friday.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Night he might have.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Misspoken he could have said he'd previously taped the movie
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and was watching it On.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Saturday maybe the police were, Wrong but in that police.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Statement he said a couple of times he was taping the,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: movies setting THE vcr to tape it that. Night he
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: seemed to say he was watching the movie live as it. Aired,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: now maybe he's Remembering friday night instead Of saturday. Night
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: getting mixed up. Again police did not Interview james for several.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Days After christina went. Missing BUT i do wonder AND
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: i would love to clear up that. Discrepancy frida went
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: into The bearcat store right before nine pm that, night
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: and the second cashier who we heard from earlier said
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: she vividly Remembers christina's mother walking into the store crying
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: and saying she couldn't find her.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Daughter and then Missus pipton came. In she was crying
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: and we, said, well we already pretty much set the
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: registers down or they'll be glad to and, said, NO
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: i just need to use the pay.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Phone the pay.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: Phone was like when you walk in the, door though
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: you would make a, right direct, right and it was
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: on the. Wall there was a, window and then there
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: was the pay, phone and then it started with the.
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: Drinks and she ran to the phone.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: And she called the police and she didn't Really that's
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: when we heard or say my little girl's. MISSING i was, like,
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: oh Love, god you know we saw her, just you,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: know a couple of hours. Ago AND i don't know
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: why no one ever questioned. Me, ever at the, TIME
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: i kept thanking Mister arnold would come and talk to.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: They no one ever questioned.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: ME i find it shocking that there was no police
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: interview with this, cashier this person who was one of
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the last people to See christina. Alive there's also no
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: interview with the other. Cashier the police report just said
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: he had nothing of substance to offer the.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Investigation BUT i disagree with.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: THAT i think he could have seen something extremely, important
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: even if he didn't realize what he was seeing at the,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Time and it's a shame we don't have a longer
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: interview with. Him so where do we go from? Here
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: there's still a lot of people who need to be
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: checked out. Further after speaking To cashier number, one it
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: seems very plausible That Robbie tubbs could have been In
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Hickory ridge that. AFTERNOON a family member confirmed to me
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: That robbie does Smoke marlborough. Reds we know that he
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: drove a brown, car a sedan that matched the description
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: of the one the cashier saw at the, time and most,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: crucially the cashier felt strongly that the photo Of robbie's
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: she saw from back in the day looked like the
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: composite drawing that she did with the. Police Robbie tubbs
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: could have been the stranger who came into the Bear
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: cat that, night but that's not enough for a DEFINITE.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Id and even if it, was even If Robbie tubbs was,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: there this is not proof that he did anything.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: WRONG i want to be very clear about.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: That he absolutely could have been in that store for
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: totally innocent. Reasons we know that he had some ties
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: to the. Area he had his Friend, jackie who he
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: went shelling. With when he drove through, there he would
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: often drop him In, waldenburg which is Near Hickory. Ridge
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: at the, Time robbie and his Wife sandra lived Near, Pocahontas,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: arkansas and at the Time robbie had a girlfriend Named.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Janetta we've talked about that.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Before the route From pocahontas to Where robbie went shelling
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: passed right Through Hickory. Ridge there's a root that would
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: go right near his girlfriend's place and near the bear
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Cat Robbie tubb, smoked and there are not that many
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: places to make a pit stop and buy. CIGARETTES i
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: also wondered about the. Evidence we've already talked a lot
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: about everything that happened with the, hair the disastrous wrong,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Testing so Now i'm, wondering is there anything that police
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: can do with the hair evidence that was so badly.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Mishandled we know forensic testing has improved a lot since
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. Two but THEN i take another look at
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: the case file AND i see a report Dated march,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: fifteenth twenty twenty. Three in, fact it seems to be
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the only activity On Christina pipkin's case that's taken place in,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: years and it's not good. News according to the case.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: File In march of twenty twenty, three Investigator Robert scott
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: of The Arkansas State police Contacted Dale, arnold the Original
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Arkansas State police investigator On christina's. Case Robert scott Asked
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Dale arnold about the hair. Sample Dale arnold said he
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: had already given testimony about it when the mistake was.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Discovered it seemed from reading the report like it wasn't
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: something That Dale arnold wanted to pursue. Further, Then Robert scott, wrote,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Quote Cross County Sheriff's office Investigator boykins pulled the case
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: at my request and researched the. Evidence Investigator boykins was
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: unable to find the hair recovered from the vehicle of
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Mister tubbs in The Cross County Sheriff's office property. Room
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Investigator arnold stated he didn't know where the hair. Was
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: NOW i reviewed the case file on the custody Of Cross,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: county no new information was. Developed it is highly unlikely
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: that the recovered hair could be used in a court
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: forcus due to the previous submission in the trial of
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Mister tubbs end. QUOTE i knew it was a long
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: shot with this, hair BUT i can't help but feel
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: devastated For christina's family because what that means is that
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: after that mistake At Robbie tubbs's, trial the, evidence it
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: seems was returned from The Arkansas State police crime lab
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: to The Cross County sheriff's, office but it didn't stay.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: There somehow it's. Missing and this is.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: WHERE i really start to feel, outraged because it's not
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: enough that they botch the.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Testing now they've lost the.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Hair they've lost the one piece of physical evidence that
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: could be definitively.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Tested it's just.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Shocking Investigator scott goes on to say that he and
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: another investigator did reach out To Robbie, tubbs though they
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: misspelled his name As Ronnie. Tubbs he said they have
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: a last known address For robbie at a motel In Sulfur, Springs.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: TEXAS i don't know if.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: They don't want to find him or if they can't find,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Him but no further contact With Robbie tubbs was recorded
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: in the case. FILE i Found Robby tubbs in about ten.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: MINUTES i saw on social media that he sometimes posts
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: from his hotel.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Room AND i really don't.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Know if THE asp don't feel they have enough evidence
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: they don't want to reach. Out maybe they're jurisdictional, Issues
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: maybe they don't want to Call texas law enforcement with.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Us but either, way that recent, report plus the fact
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: they've released the case file publicly tells us the, police
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: in my, opinion are not actively investigating this. Case After christina's,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: funeral her, Parents james And, frieda moved.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Away eventually they divorced.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: AGAIN i take no joy in retraumatizing anyone and digging
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: up family, trauma BUT i believe that there are answers
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: in this case that could be found and they are
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: not in this police case.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: File we have to find these. People we need to
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: talk to.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Them we have to keep going back to That Bear
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: cat convenience store on the night Of may, fourth nineteen ninety,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: one and we have to zero in on the tiny
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: little details Now i'm zeroing.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: In on one.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Discrepancy christina's math teacher said when she spoke To christina
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: That christina had her flyer for jewelry selling in her,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: hand but the Cashier CASHIER, ii who Saw christina in
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the doorway of the Bear cat a little while, later
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Said christina did not have anything in her, hands and
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: she remembered that Because christina kind of shrugged and she
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: saw both of her hands go up and they were.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Empty so Could christina have left her flyer at home
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: then come.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Back to the.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Store if, so why was she coming back to the
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: store if she was done selling her?
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Jewelry could she have.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Seen someone she knew, outside maybe someone who offered her a.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Ride maybe that.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Person had already talked To christina when the cashier saw
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: her inside the.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Door their car was sitting outside right.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: THEN i am not giving up on this. Case i'm
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: gonna work my way through the hundreds of Messages i've
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: received and keep reaching out and keep trying to get.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Answers i'm going to document every single interview THAT i,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: have And i'm going to turn over any helpful INFORMATION
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: i find to law enforcement and to the prosecutor's office
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And i'm going to keep pushing for access to that autopsy,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: report and also to get any information THAT i can
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: About Geneva smith And Guardina. Cross of, course we can
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: never know exactly what will happen, next BUT i can,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: promise as, ALWAYS i will keep working on this case
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: in the, background AND i will keep you. Posted most,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Importantly i'm going to keep talking to people any ONE i,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: can because every TIME i, do with every new detail
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: THAT i learned that was not in the case file
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: or in any of the police, reports that potential window
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: of time that someone had to kidnap and murder a
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: little girl gets smaller and. Smaller we have to keep.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Digging I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder line is a production Of school Of
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and narrated by, Me
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Watts music is By Ben.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Solee executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon barr And Else.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Crowley if you have a case you'd like me and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: my team to look, into you can reach out to
• 41:15
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