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Confidence Under Pressure: Why Communications in Politics is a Superpower · the ACT OUT podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Act Out Podcast.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Adam Tomlin.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is the treasurer of the Virginia Young Democrats and the president of the Hampton Roads Young Democrats, Connor Apple.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's roll the tape.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Public speaking is uh like one of the things I well I practice like whenever I was a kid, I would watch uh the pastor at church um like give a sermon and I'll watch like how he talked, and then I would like go home and practice in the mirror.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like whenever I'm uh giving a speech, I tend to have a very like pastorcated sometimes.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely got those vibes.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I'm a little more like in because I the group I work with, we sit at our faith group.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I hear a lot of like pastors and faith leaders.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, he definitely I'm gonna ask him one time if he actually has like a link.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's it feels very like uh not preachy, but um like oh no, I've yeah, yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've been accused of being uh preachy before.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did uh is public speaking something that like comes naturally to you, or was it like you have to practice?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, um I don't uh I still get stage right doing it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still still definitely have the fear of public speaking, but uh I've gotten better at it as I've gone along.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did a class in high school that was really um helpful, and we had to practice all different types of speeches and learning how to like format speeches and then you know just practice makes perfect.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, as I've gone along, it's still not my favorite thing to do.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I like to be kind of behind the scenes, but um it's uh it's necessary for for being in politics, I guess.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um I've you know grown accustomed to it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: For that speech uh at Water Side for the young Dems, I had uh going around, you know, the canal in Norfolk.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would walk around that canal listening to uh like 2000s uh like rap and like just like I would be thinking of that speech like over and over again in my head.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I even to the point where I would think about messing up, like I would imagine myself messing up at a particular part and then like feel that in my body, like, oh my god, that panic, and then like let the panic go away, and then think about okay, well, if I did mess up there, oh, I could just jump to this part.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so like it was like I try to give my brain enough um like enough information where it's like, hey, if I mess up, it's not gonna be the end of the world.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can just jump to this thing in a second.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I I actually found that to be pretty helpful.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I have to um my biggest thing is I speed up when I talk.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a very fast talker.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And just because you have so many good ideas.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I just want to get it all out.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just like start voting, I'm like, I want to be done with this.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I had when I was in seventh grade, I did um uh it's called forensics, but it has nothing to do with like CSI or anything.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the the not debate, but like speech.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you know, they had the you know, prepared speeches, they you know, you could do a extemporaneous speech or you know, a poem or the different categories you competed in.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you practiced for like several months and then you went for an all-city competition.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And from I went to Virginia Beach Public Schools, and so they had an all-city competition.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did it one time because I was like, you know what, like I was, you know, trying out different things, I was doing debate, like all the kind of like you know, typical, you know, pipeline to politics play clubs.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my uh middle school teacher, uh, every time I would I would speak, she's like, listen, that was great, love it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have to slow down.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you got it, you this speech should take you three minutes, not a minute.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so because I was like just going so fast.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the one thing that like I still have to work on because it's like, you know, I especially if I mess up something, I'm like, okay, I start spending like I hear her in the back of my head like slow down, slow down.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or I see her like in front of me, like slow down, like mouthing it to me.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I can tell that you're uh you know, kind of leading a life.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably going to be in the public eye and like giving speeches.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's like it's pretty cool that you've even though like there was that like initial fear that you've that you still like jumped in head first and like you've still like worked through it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's pretty I don't know.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I like to see that when people are like, man, I am not necessarily uh like this isn't the most like natural thing in the world for me.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna work at that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have so much respect for that.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because as a kid, I was obsessed with being smart, and so I couldn't let myself feel vulnerable enough to like to be that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Which meant that like I there are certain things that I got really, really good at, but there were just as many that like I just because I was afraid to mess up, I didn't even attempt.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so like my my skill level stayed like stayed down, you know, like that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's me with Spanish.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I tried a couple years in high school, a couple years in college, still can't.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, I um I think what helped me too was realizing like, you know, it wasn't an uncommon thing.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like for I think the first couple years, like middle school, like early high school, I was like, you know, I feel like everyone's just really good at it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, like, or like why are like I don't know why I'm so terrified.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just speak in public in front of hundreds of people.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, but then like I remember reading somewhere, like learning somewhere that the vast majority of people, like it is one of the most common phobias and fears.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I like I looked back, I was like, oh yeah, I had a teacher I could I like now as an adult could like realize like, oh, they didn't like speaking in front of like a class of you know, fifth graders, like or you know, fourth graders.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they like they overcame it because they like at the end of the day, that's what they like to do.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they cared about doing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um public speaking, you know, even if they didn't like that part of it, it was kind of like a tool to do what they love.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and like one of the things they had to do.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they could, you know, that's how they could kind of get over it and and push forward.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like how you said that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like tool, like uh it's a tool to be able to do what you love anyway.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, so like, yeah, of course, like the even even your dream job is gonna have some downsides to it that you don't want to have that you don't want to have to do, but like hey, that's it's it's just a little text.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh I like like I haven't really thought of that like frame before, but uh I think that I could say that being pretty helpful.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Have you always been this enlightened or uh No.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wouldn't even say I am.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I still day-to-day like that is something an enlightened person would say.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I don't know.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I wouldn't give myself that much credit.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um still still in my early 20s, so still got a lot to learn.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know that you want to be in politics uh very early on?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I always I think around fourth grade I really liked social studies.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was my favorite subject in school.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember like very like vividly, I can remember my fourth grade teacher um reading us a book about uh like Jamestown and like the settlers coming over and the Virginia Company and all that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that was I started liking history more and more, like it became my favorite subject in school.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I will say in fifth grade I was I was in it was 2012, so it was the Obama's re-election campaign year, and I found myself forming a um an Obama club.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they had the Bromney Club, and so you know, there was definitely the political element, but I never like I didn't see that as like, oh, that's something I could do.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was like or wanted to do.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was I really liked history, and also there wasn't it was an election year.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like as I went on like through middle school and like you know, I still found myself consistently like history and in eighth grade we had civics class, like you know, class, like those were my favorite classes.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then it was What's your favorite period of history?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, um I as a fellow history nerd who moved to Virginia specifically because it was so close to Williamsburg and the colonial.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I wouldn't say it's my uh favorite period of history, but I think it's the most like important and interesting to learn about.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like post-Civil War, right into like the 1920s before the start of the Great Depression.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that like if like very important.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Very apropos to this time.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um But yeah, um, I really like learning about that because it was like, hey, like, no, let's try to learn from these mistakes and not re like there's other periods of history that do that, but like I think that time frame in particular is really like important.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Can I ask you a question?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you you studied this subject a lot, like read about a lot.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you read it, uh whenever you saw that uh white people um had black slaves, did you feel did you feel bad as a white person?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I never had like a conscious moment where I was like, I personally felt like realistic.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know like you know, my mom and dad didn't like it was like it's like I s there was like a realization that if this was a couple hundred years ago, like and the thought of like that would be what the situation was was terrifying to think about.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I was born 200 years earlier, that like I would be the people that we're learning about and um how they you know committed all these injustices and you know, acts at racism and um it was terrifying to think about, but I never like I think that also just kind of strengthened like I think one of the like not necessarily a political issue, but something I've always really cared about, like in you know, throughout high school and college and um campaigns that I've worked on and uh you know uh anything in politics is always like diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like you know, like that is something that is really present and like needed in this society.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think that like learning about that and like really being like, wow, this is this was not that long ago.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is not something that just like you know, like ancient Egypt, like you know, even then like you know, but it's still um it's is it wasn't about guilt, it was about learning the subject, seeing the horrors of it, and saying we can't do this again.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we cannot allow this to happen.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was it was shock.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think putting the pieces together of okay, well, yeah, we you know, we had the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln, you know, quote unquote freed the slaves and all this stuff, but then we have, you know, reconstruction and seeing how like the politics of it, because like the reason Reconstruction ended was because it was a political decision.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and seeing how a bunch of, you know, white people in DC in in these back rooms made a decision that had lasting impacts on generations to come.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: What was the um like what ended the Reconstruction now?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I can't like it's there was so there was a an election.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quote me on the year, um, but there was an election of the where the electoral college, like there was some weird like this where it wasn't the outcome wasn't finalized based on like the popular electoral college vote.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a weird, I think it might have even gone to like it was possibly gonna go to the the house and send like um but or no, I think maybe it was a Supreme Court decision.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Something was going on where basically they were like, hey, this guy won the popular vote, but this guy won like the electoral college, like and so there were or not the electoral, there was something weird going on.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And a bunch of them got together and said, Hey, like we the person ended up becoming president, we will make you president.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you have to end reconstruction.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even though you essentially kind of like lost the election.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we were you have to end your reconstruction, you do what we want, and you have to like pull the troops out of the south.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That yeah, that was the fixed.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there were um the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments were uh were ratified uh after the Civil War as part of uh getting back into the union, your state is going to ratify uh this amendment.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there were federal troops in southern states making sure that those amendments were basically carried out, essentially.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that people had the rights.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was Reconstruction in a nutshell.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and one, I mean, one of the major things being that they had free and fair elections in the South, too.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we had, and I didn't learn about this until I was in college, but there was, you know, you know, after the Civil War during Reconstruction, it was not uncommon to have a black governor, to have uh black people winning congressional seats and Senate seats and you know, all these positions that, you know, there's this big, big boom of people who are you know, people of color running and winning these positions and across all the southern states.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then as soon as Reconstruction ended, you know, they you started seeing a lot of Jim Crow creep in and a lot of these laws that undermined the the amendments that were passed and ratified.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then pretty much overnight you saw all of the gains that we had made um in those elections um gone.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there were there was no more black governors.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: There was no more, like, you know, um so what what would they would do?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there would be several things.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I think of the uh like the the poll test.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen uh have you ever seen an example of a of a poll test that was used?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Pull yeah, uh vaguely, yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would be something so I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to cut you.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It would be something so arbitrary that it would be a bar of soap and it would be how many uh suds are on the bar of soap.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you and I could go up there and they'd be like, sir, how many uh suds are on that bar of soap?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we'd be like, uh I could say nine, you could say eleven, they'd be like, Yep, that's correct.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody else, they could be like, uh no, the actually the correct answer is 41.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was so arbitrary to where they would be able to discriminate against who they wanted to and still let.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So only the people they wanted to.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well they they had those, and they also there was some that like that I I would argue is a little more sinister in nature.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: They would have um, they they, you know, we because of slavery and you know, owners not or people not wanting black people to learn how to read and write, one of the tests they would use is like reading comprehension.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: They would pull this really complex passage from a book that was probably a college reading level, and you know, to and say, hey, like can you like go through and like say like basically write a summary of what this is or tell me what this means or what does this word mean?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um that or like you know, they would pull amendments from the Constitution or passages and say, Hey, I want you to explain this to me.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like explain what this random amendment about, you know, not having to house troops in time of war, like, you know, all these things.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, like he's like, uh we could go in and you know, make some BS up and you know, I don't, I don't know, like make um and yeah, sure, go vote.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: But then um, like he's like, you know, black people there were like, oh, you know, you can get that one quite right.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you'd explain to me like you're a lawyer.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so unfortunately you can't vote today.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the the poll taxes too, like were another big like, you know, and be i again, it was not that long ago.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: We had like, you know, Congresswoman Jennifer McClellan had a relative who still has their poll tax.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like it it's it's not that like this has happened to families that are around today, like or know about it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's you bring up a very good point.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, especially in the wake of uh the Supreme Court or uh Johnny Reb and the funky bunch, uh their their decision uh in the Calais case uh with with voting rights.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it there seems to be now this notion that we're like uh we we're we're over that whole like discrimination thing.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like racism is a thing of the past.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: That has an appeal to uh to a certain segment of the country, uh particularly like uh like like rural areas.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, people will see like, yeah, I like there there isn't racism.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's to a certain extent because people define racism as having a really starch bed sheet that you're wearing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you think it's gonna take to like get them to be able to see the light, so to speak?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quite know.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think also too, like, you know, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and all these civil rights protections isn't a hundred percent new.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like we had when Obama was president, there was a Supreme Court case um that uh got rid of Justice Department be having to review like maps in states that have been proven and shown time and time again to gerrymander based on race.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was called pre-clearance, I believe.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in the the oral arguments, you know, you had um one of the justices who was more conservative leaning saying, Well, we you know, Obama is president.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we we can't have racism if we have a black president.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you think racist had a black president once?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so clearly, like, you know, it's already worked, so we don't have to do it anymore.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, one of my favorite Ruth Bader-Ginsberg quotes is the, you know, well, the argument that you're making is basically akin to us going out in a rainstorm with an umbrella.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I I have moments.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And because we're not getting wet, throwing the umbrella away.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get it wet as soon as you throw that umbrella away.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you've already already seen that happen with this recent Supreme Court case.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: As soon the days after the Supreme Court case happened, and you we completely gutted the Voting Rights Act, um, you know, you had all of these states, many of them who have were previously on the pre-care clearance list um with the Justice Department, um, you know, gerrymandering in a way that, you know, discriminates against people of color.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I don't know what it's gonna take to make people realize that just because, you know, it we still see instances of like very clear rate, like, you know, people in hoods and you know, people calling each other slurs and you know, openly discriminating.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's still gonna be there, there I would argue there's probably always gonna be that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but just because we see maybe less of that than we did a hundred years ago, yeah, maybe, does not mean the systemic racism is gone.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is the that is the point.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Things you don't like as white people, we don't see every day because we don't have to experience it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um To me, that is the most insidious uh part of the uh of the idea that like they're colorblind and you know, like there is no racism anymore.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, whenever you say that the status quo is like how it's supposed to be, majority white, that's just that that's the way it was always intended.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's that's fine.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's if it's majority brown or black, that's racial.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't understand what the you know, like what the dichotomy is there, because if you look in Congress, uh folks that look like you and me, except way older, are heavily represented.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Overrepresented.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Vastly overrepresented.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the Supreme Court is like, eh, that's just the way it's supposed to be.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I find that to be absolutely just like we have made gains.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like we've seen like just in terms of like our Congress and our state legislatures being more representative of the you know communities they serve.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: We have made a lot of progress, you know, with in terms of like women being in Congress and in the Senate, people of color, veterans, LGBTQ people, you name it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with this Supreme Court case, it like, you know, there's a lot of things out right now saying we could lose generations worth of progress in terms of like, you know, equitable representation in the next election.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is like, and I think that's like the most just absolutely sinister part about this whole thing is like it's very clear, like you we are doing basically another like ending of reconstruction.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what this is.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because they all these, you know, backroom deals and you know, uh MAGA Republicans with like sinister motives.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say MAGA Republicans, I don't mean voters, I mean the people who are in power, um, you know, at the very top.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they know if they can they can disenfranchise voters now, um, you know, it they're they're more likely to win in the future.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really, it's it's sad.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I I have a a big issue with the two-party system, uh, but there's no way to like break that down because Republicans were gonna be uniformly against it because they benefit the most from a two-party system.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: They uh, if it weren't for gerrymandering, backroom deals, if it weren't for like the political procedure, they would be non-existent at this point.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they lost the battle of ideas uh right around Obama, really, in 2012.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it it was pretty clear that like who they had was it wasn't gonna cut it, and their their their party was weak enough to where Donald Trump could jump in.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and now the Republican Party like in 2020, they did not adopt a policy platform uh at their convention.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: All they all their policy platform was literally we agree with what Donald Trump does.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: It it is like, you know, I just you kind of have to stay stand in awe of like the what the you know what like you know.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's such a mediocre dude too.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like how sorry.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember like here, like you know, I had um you know, a family friend when Trump was running for the first time talk about like, oh, he's this amazing businessman and Rodin Green.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you realize most of his businesses have gone bankrupt.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're not if you if you want to like say a businessman, which I don't just I don't agree with anyway, like a businessman should be in charge of the government because the government is not a business, it has serves a completely different purpose.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that argument.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if you're going to argue that, at least have it be a successful businessman.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I would say too, like, you know, I think the two-party system, like in order to change it, like fundamentally we have to amend the constitution.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because the reason really that we have a two-party system in the first place is because of the way our elections have been designed.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So single member districts, for example, other countries, like if like let's take our, you know, Congress, for example, House of Representatives, other countries have multi-member districts.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they have like, you know, there'll be three instead of like here in CD2, well, I guess we're in Norfolk, but um, in CD2, for example, you'd have like two or three people representing one district.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not uncommon for having like two Republicans and a Democrat, you know, Republican, Democrat and Green Party or Libertarian Party.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, but because we prescribe that there's only one person per district, um, or we don't have a parliamentary system where it's like there's a list, you know, based on like the national vote or or whatever it is, um, you know, because we have single member districts, it it really minimizes the opportunity for third parties to even try to do anything in the first place, because you don't like let's say you're left like you're left-wing Democrat and you are way more progressive than you know, you don't if there is a quote unquote third-party candidate who's more in line with your issues, you don't get anything by voting for them because you're more likely than not, like over 90% of the time, your vote for the person who aligns closer to your values on like your side of the aisle, um, is more so a vote for the person on the complete opposite side.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So voting for Jill Stein, you know, or voting for, you know, a libertarian just elects the person who you least want in the first place.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we would have to fundamentally change our constitution and the way we do elections to even have a, you know, a shot at having more than two parties.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I agree.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I think the two-party system doesn't work for most people anymore.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and, you know, well, what's really interesting about it, like Trump has created a whole lot of opportunities and a whole lot of problems for Democrats.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he has alienated uh moderate folks to the point to where like you you don't have Mitt Romney, uh can't even remember the guy's a lot of people.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: One of the middle states.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: One of the vice presidential candidates.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like the Temple Lintis, I at least know that name, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't have those anymore.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: They've been like they've been ostracized.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And even down in Georgia, I think uh Jeff Duncan, who was the Republican lieutenant governor and is about as conservative, you know, as you would be like in normal times, he was running for uh governor as a Democrat.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you have him that's on the same ballot, or not on the same ballot, but like uh with the same party name as Zara Mamdani and Alexandria Ocasia Cortez.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like so it there is such a big tent that, yeah, like we have there are like a bigger pool of voters, but it's very tough to be able to have a candidate that can appeal to both of those crowds.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I honestly think about the 2024 election, I think what I'm hoping one of the biggest lessons that Democrats have learned is trying to bend over backwards to appeal to this independent voter, this mythical independent voter.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Western mom, like, what's she gonna think of this?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because like well, decide note for a second.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like independent voters, like, I I I would argue they don't really exist.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you call yourself an independent, you know, like there is this, I feel like this American notion of like, well, I'm an independent.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't let anyone make my decisions for me.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then you're a Republican.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or a Democrat.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: That they they will poll people who are independents and say, like months before an election and say, hey, which way are you leaning?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, they'll okay, you know, and then they'll pull them after they voted.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: 95% of them, you know, don't quote me on the percentage, but the vast, vast majority of them stick with their original intention.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: They there is this, there is no, there's not a lot of room for this winning over independent voters, um, as much as we want to believe that's a thing.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you have candidates who like, you know, follow this very textbook consultant uh, you know, plan to like win the primary, be a little bit maybe a little bit more progressive than you usually are, and then just make a hardcore pivot to the center, you're alienating, you're assuming that everyone to the left of you is gonna vote for you just because you are better than Donald Trump or whoever the Republican is.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the case.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't see that this last time.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm but meanwhile, you had Donald Trump who did the complete opposite.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: He went so far right talking about eating cats and dogs on the debate stage and doing all of this really like conservative and you know, just bad shit.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Far right Republican crazy shit.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um like he won.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's because he like so I'm hoping that like in not just presidential elections, but just you know, elections in general, like Democrats, I really feel like we need to start like let just run on the platform you believe in.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't like people voters will follow you if you're talking about what they care about.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and instead of like just pivoting to this independent voter that is never gonna vote for you anyway, and then alienating everyone who would have voted for you, we get a lot more bang for our buck, so to speak, by just being true to who we are and saying true to our values versus you know trying to appeal to to everyone at the same time.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% concur.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and as you were saying that, a specific point in the campaign came to mind.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was uh I think it was during the summer, and uh I maybe it was I think it was Tim Walls probably started out.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this seems like a very Governor Walls thing to do, but uh he called um called Jetty Vance and uh Trump weird.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that is incredibly that was incredibly effective.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean it melted them down on the right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the left uh got behind it because like, yeah, the dude is fucking weirdo.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was very like plain spoken, too.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you we didn't have to do like I think a lot of politicians like try to seem more knowledgeable than they are, and so like instead of podcast hosts don't do that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but like they like you know, when they try to attack an opponent, like you know, like this guy's like you know, attacking Donald Trump, like they're very articulate and pulling from history and all that's important.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tim Walt, like to your point, Tim Waltz got up there and said what the most of the country was thinking, these guys are fucking weird, like you know, and so I wish I wish more politicians did that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, like I they did it for maybe a week or two, and then it just dropped off.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that uh I I think that that was a really missed opportunity and it kind of like stalled momentum out.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you know why they stopped because uh it didn't like poll well with the censors.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, eh, it's a little too um There was a consultant in the room who said don't do that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Consultants, it's really easy to demonize the uh the group, but they seem like they seem like they know a whole lot of things that aren't true.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know they try I I know a lot of like consultants who work on campaign and like they're they're really good people, they're trying their best.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and they but their job is to like analyze the data, like like be the like political person in the room.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I think sometimes campaigns just need to take a step back from that and be like, okay, like that's great.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I now like you kind of the the way you said it, I got an uh like an actuary came to my mind.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm looking at the data here, and if I ensure Connor, well, he goes skydiving.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: If he skydives, there's a 75% chance that we're gonna have to pay off.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna like cancel.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've never really thought of the consultant as an as an actuary, but uh all they're doing is just trying to uh predict outcomes based on like present data that's yeah pretty obscure, probably at best, you know?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and polls like you know, I feel like a lot of times too, like not just consultants or like you know, um politicos, but just like the news or people read, like they see this poll come out and they're like, oh my god, this is like this crystal ball thing that like is gonna come true.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like I don't think enough people realize polls are just a snapshot.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's the opinions of the people who were polled during that day.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you know, ten things can have happened by now to change that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so um they're a tool, but they're not like this, you know, end all be all.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the snapshot uh the the the snapshot and Tom, uh this I really dove into uh polls after the uh election because I was I was bamboozled by them.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, ah, they're wrong, they're wrong.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way this is uh this is right.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um, oh well.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, with polls, you're seeing the uh you're seeing the snapshot of time.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: What becomes what what becomes important is if you can see four polls within like a few, you know, like the same poll within a few, same methodology within like a couple weeks, and then you can start seeing trends maybe like, oh, Connor was at 35, then he's at 42, and then like oh okay, this is a clear progress uh progression.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to just see that one last poll, it really wouldn't be able to tell you like that much of uh that that much information.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You want to know a great example of that?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: 2021 here in Virginia during the the governor's election.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: You if you look at like the the polling averages, Terry McCullough started off with this massive like lead, like 10 points or whatever.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you just looked at that one poll, yeah, Terry's gonna win.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, or you know, former governor McCullough is gonna win.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you start like since like from like August onward.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I remember because I was working on a campaign, I was like scared because I was like checking it every other day, like, oh god.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, you saw this like trend to your point of it going towards Glenn Youncan.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then by the time you got to election day, the the average um, you know, from the polls had him up by 0.03 or 0.3%, uh, or Glenn Youngin up by 0.3%.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so you see that from, you know, up however many points former Governor McCulliff was.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so yeah, trend to your point, like trends are the I think the most important part of like polls and all that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: One of my uh favorite uh pitchers in history is Harry Truman holding up the uh piece of paper the day after the election that says Dewey defeats Truman, you know?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, I remember that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a I I I I have a um I think it's somewhere around there, I have a Thomas Dewey campaign poster.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I love having that because uh his his win was so inevitable that, like, yes, the press had already written the story the the day up.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: But the Secret Service had also nicknamed uh or knew that they were gonna nickname Air Force One Dewdrop in January.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like they had already picked out the name, like they were changing uh curtains out.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the uh one of the big reasons why they did was man, I can't remember his name now, but he was an advisor for Franklin uh Roosevelt.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he had something, it was whatever his last name was, law, and that was people decided who were they who they were gonna vote for uh by the time of the conventions.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so polling after the convention was unnecessary.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the general wisdom at the time.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so people just basically stopped polling after election or uh after the conventions.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but there were like the few polls that did come out actually, to your point, were showing like the Truman's like, hey, he's he's starting to progress a little bit, but they were completely discounted because uh the rule it always been, yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, similar thing kind of happened in 2016 with um, yeah, there was a lot there's a lot of things that went on, but like when you try to look at the polling, um a lot of people like, you know, or that that's when they started saying about oh, polling is you know, BS, never look for the polling, like you know, all that.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um well one of the things a lot of pollsters, a lot of very prominent pollsters were doing, they were only looking at likely voters when they were doing their poll.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't taking like all these, you know, people who are registered to vote who maybe not as likely, but like what they didn't, you know, foresee is Trump kind of inspiring a lot of these, like, you know, like you know, the swing states that that Hillary Clinton lost and all this, you know, all the other ones.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you had all these registered voters who, because they weren't in the the polling average, like they didn't get accounted for, but then they kind of just quietly swooped in and and voted for Trump.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like there's a lot of I there's always lessons I could learn from those kind of big errors.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like like after 2016, like they really a lot of pollsters like realized they kind of messed up and adjusted.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so now it's like, you know, there's polling is never 100% accurate.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's why there's you know a margin of error, but you know, it they've accounted for a lot of the mistakes, and I'm sure they've definitely accounted for that big error for for Truman.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: There was this notion of the uh kind of the quiet Trump voter who would not they would never admit that they were gonna uh vote for him uh to a pollster, like to a live pollster.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but they would act like uh online surveys would show Trump doing doing better.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is interesting though is now the way Trump has behaved in these like past you know 10 years, there is no like reluctant or quiet Trump voter anymore.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you're either MAGA or you do not like him at all.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or you just yeah, I mean, I still think there are some.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think there are I don't think they've like fully like stopped existing.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um That's true.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I've read that many political obituary so many times.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like in 2020, maybe that was like or not 2022, 2024, like during the election, maybe there was a lot of people who ended up voting for Trump who didn't really want to say, but they were thinking, like, hey, like I don't, you know, yes, we had COVID, but before COVID, you know, the economy was relatively okay.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like there were still issues, but yeah, it was okay.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can't be that bad, right?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but maybe they didn't want to admit that to their, you know, their wives or, you know, their friends.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I know I I think, you know, by by now, I think a lot of people have kind of even who voted for Trump in 2024.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, we see this a lot with uh a lot of Latino voters who, you know, we saw that massive swing in some states to to Trump.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they've realized like polling now, you know, for what it's worth, shown them, you know, go right back home to, you know, where they were voting for Democrats.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, same thing with young people.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of young laborers, majority of young people still voted for Democrats, but there was a swing towards Donald Trump.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, for probably a lot of the same reasons, like the economy and things like that.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now you're seeing again the same kind of like, oh crap, we messed up, and back to the majority of them voting for Democrats.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so um to your point, like those quiet Trump voters, like I think are quietly realizing that um that maybe have been a mistake.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So what is so interesting to me, and you kind of uh kind of alluded to it, was that like it seemed like voters had a very short-term memory.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember 2017 through 2021, and there was chaos.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's pretty much like it is now, uh not quite as bad.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: There were still a few institutional guardrails in place that could like hold them, but there was so much chaos that every week it was like a different, like different story, different ridiculous thing.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think in my head, I just assumed like everyone was gonna remember how awful that was, and we're never gonna give him a chance again, especially after January 6th.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is that not a line in the sand for everyone?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I every waking moment I wonder how that was not like the line in the sand.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it and again, like going like what I said earlier, you kind of have to stand in awe of like the the rationalizing and all that, but honestly, like you know, I don't even blame people for that.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I have to constantly remind myself that I am in a bubble.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I am the quote political nerd who like, you know, is watching polling videos before I go to bed and like you know, watching you know, the news and and all these things, whatever, and like am very like tuned into politics.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I have to remember sometimes that like for the vast majority of people, they're only intermittently paying attention.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they are raising kids, they're working full-time jobs, they have you know aging parents they're caring for, they're trying to go to school, like especially young people.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, like trying to get like college-age kids to or call not kids, I'm graduated last year, but like college-age voters to just go vote or pay attention is like pulling teeth.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then again, like it's not like I don't view that as like a fault thing.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you have all these the vast majority of Americans who are paying attention inter like paying attention intermittently.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the other part of it too is like Trump is probably one of the biggest opportunists that I have ever seen in politics.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like he came in during 2015, 2016, where you know, he had a great economy that he was, you know, it wasn't working for everyone.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was always gonna be problems with that, but in the grand scheme of things, better than we're doing now, um, by a long shot.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so he inherited that while also, you know, kind of capitalizing on all of this anti-establishment sentiment.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's also very difficult to for, you know, uh if you if you have a president who wins, you know, the same party wins two elections in a row for then the third election to also go to the same party.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he had all of these things that were kind of whether we realized it or not that were working in his favor, and he like capitalized on that.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then you fast forward, he lost in 2020, then for four years straight, he just ranted and raved about everything.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: He was still holding rallies as if he was running for president.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: He never, he has been campaigning for president since 2015.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: He has never stopped.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, he came in and we had, you know, even though, you know, compared to the rest of the world, we were handling inflation better than any other most other countries.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we again a lot of issues.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, there's, you know, a lot of things that I wish we did differently in those four years that Biden was president, or at least prioritized maybe a little differently.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: But in the grand scheme of things, we were doing better, even though like we didn't feel that 100% because of post-COVID inflation, because all these things that kind of disrupt that, you know, I don't feel we give enough credit towards, you know, Biden and Kamala Harris.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he came in and capitalized again.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: He like he did the same thing he did in 2016, where he was like, Well, things were better when I was president, right?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you wouldn't, you weren't paying$10 for eggs, or you know, you know, you didn't have rent that has gone up by$500 in two years.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you didn't have all these things when I was president.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so he capitalized on it again.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you had, you know, again, like a very unpopular president with Joe Biden, like, you know, with him, you know, being older and all that.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so he just used his four years just to rant and rave about every little thing.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then he like he's just an opportunist.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have those situations combined with the fact that a lot of people are only intermittently paying attention, they're not maybe even thinking or prioritizing in their head, hey, we have someone who led an insurrection on our capital.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, which I can't believe I'm saying those words so plainly, because that's like still a wild thing to have happen.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, they're not calculating it.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're like, they're making their decision in between picking up their kids from school and grabbing their groceries.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, all they're seeing is, you know, the price of, you know, the you know, eggs they're getting from the supermarket and the fact that they might have to move because their rent is going up and their kid can't save enough money for college anymore, and like you know, they may not be able to go to college, and they can't help they're not that that's how they're making their decision.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I think there was a I can't I can't remember who said it.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was uh an advisor to Bill Clinton uh when he was running for president, but he was like, it's the economy stupid.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, James Carble.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, there we go.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I could see the raging Cajun, yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, it's the economy stupid.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, I think that's just like when you have an opportunist like that and people who are intermittently paying attention do to no follow of their own, we get the Donald Trumps.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um people are quickly realizing that was a mistake now that we have gas over$4 a gallon and we'll probably never see it below$3 for at least until 2032.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, it elections have consequences.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I think people will we the way we win more and prevent the Donald Trumps of the world from being in power again is by like doing our best to like say, hey, it may feel good right now.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: You may think that it's a good idea to vote for someone who has openly said he's gonna put tariffs tariffs.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of people who Googled what a tariff was after the election drove me wild.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I was I was so mad, but I was also like, you know what?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I I can't we as people who are trying to get Democrats elected and like you know care about progressive issues, we don't win anything by being mad at voters.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at the end of the day, we just didn't earn their vote.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like however you want to articulate that or say why we we did or did not win, like is fine.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't win.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: their boat they still we still like they still made that decision um and so like yeah anyway I just wanted a whole ring no no it you you touched on a lot like what gets me with and is kind of touching on what you said was Donald Trump gets to get by with this double standard like Joe Biden yeah Joe Biden was old Donald Trump is older um Joe Biden had a really bad debate performance I totally get that yeah Donald Trump falls asleep and shits himself in cabinet meetings and yet people are talking about him being the like like definition of virility I don't understand am I just not is my reality not reality or like uh what what's going on?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: He you know I think he as much of an opportunist as he is I think he's also a very talented bullshitter like he when you talk about like the types of people like power people have he can set the agenda he he sets the conversation very well like that is something that he like hate him or love him yeah he's really good at setting the agenda and if he goes out on a debate stage and says you know these immigrants are eating cats and dogs you guys see that they're eating cats and dogs you had mostly like a lot of the country believe in that like there is not like he has done something like he he's so he doesn't feel like a politician and so there's not that instant skepticism.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like more so I guess when he was first running.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but like because he's the quote unquote not a politician even though he's been running for president for 10 years um or over 10 years at this point like him going out and saying these seemingly anti-establishment things um and you know yes he's older than Joe Biden but he didn't feel older than Joe Biden.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: He you know had a he has a really good PR team during the election of like people they were able to really like make him seem like he wasn't as worse he was.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's the communications guy he looks like the Moose next man looks like a giant snot ball.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think once in the first Trump term when you had Steven Miller up there um you know uh yeah um but yeah that's a whole nother um I won't go down that rabbit hole but you know I think the other like thing too is like we and not to go back to the opportunist thing too much he also um with the exception of Joe Biden so out of the three times he's ran for president the you know first and last time were against a woman and you know when we talk about double standard like you had mentioned like talk about a double standard like you be you know you had two of the most qualified women well two most qualified people to ever run for president and there was just this like well something's just not right.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't trust them.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I don't trust them.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be too emotional to be president.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: They'll too even though all wars have been started by men in the central and you like Donald Trump gets mad and wants to nuke somebody yet like he is the like emotionally rational one.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's absurd.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like I think um and just a quick like note about like you know women in Canada is like officially running for president like we have we always talk about the glass ceiling and you know they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna break that glass ceiling they're gonna shatter it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't talk enough about the glass cliff where like especially I like you know I think one of the greatest disappointments of 2024 was you know Joe Biden shouldn't have ran.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know like the lot like love him a lot lot like a lot of accomplishments were really good that he did and he has a great career in public service.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really wish that he got out sooner.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because if if that was a decision that was going to be made it should not have happened a hundred days before.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so which has never happened before in history.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is was a very highly unusual election the way it was it went about.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so you put up you know Kamala Harris and you know there's always an initial excitement but you're giving her a situation where 99% of candidates would not win.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like it I don't you could have put you know George Washington on the ballot as a Democrat in 2024 and I don't think he would have won.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that that's how like bad the situation was and so you're giving her like you know this opportunity to quote unquote break the glass ceiling but what you're really doing is shoving her over a glass cliff and making her hey black woman like I'm gonna I want you to solve our problem that I as a white man created which we see a lot in history and you know in the present.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so it like I just I mean Trump took advantage of that.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know there's all this instant as soon as she was the top of the ticket there was this instant skepticism by people who still like you know I think we all have internalized sexism you know regardless of how woke we are like that's just part of society and especially like internalized racism.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know you're trying to defeat a you know a fascist on the ballot like and then you like have the situation.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I think like we don't talk enough about like the you know crisis she was presented with and you know there was I don't I'm sure you've heard like there was polling that I think finally made Biden realize that he should get out of the race where Trump was going to win over 300 something elect like over 400 electoral college votes.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so like yeah Kamel Harris lost but she like held the ground way yeah it was way closer than it would have been if Biden was on the ballot.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah I don't know I just it just I can't remember exactly how I we were just a we're thinking I want to ask you where do you want to go or where do you think uh Democrats go from here?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like what does what is 2028?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: What what's the ideal ticket do you think?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh uh um you know I don't I don't know who the ideal ticket is.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the components of it though like we need candidates who can you know I don't if I don't want candidates who are gonna just pivot to the Senate like I honestly I don't like Gavin Newsom.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know not my favorite candidate um who I mean whether or not he's gonna run or not you know he's already kind of running um but like candidates of that mindset who are you know demonizing transgender people and like you know not demonizing but like throwing them under the bus essentially very much to try to save the Democratic Party quote unquote I think any candidate like that needs to not run.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully voters will reject that.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I think like you know kind of like what we were talking about earlier of you know we can't just pivot to the center we have to give people a reason to vote for us.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like you know all of the the people who like you know they're very progressive they're very liberal leaning but they're not motivated to vote.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Candidates who can find those voters and really um engage them and get them to the ballot box I think we need candidates like that.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know I'm a little biased as a young person.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want someone who's gonna maybe is appeal to young voters or at the very least is younger.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so hopefully you know we don't I don't think Joe Biden's gonna run again or Bernie Sanders or like some of the older candidates but um I think we need a younger, more progressive um candidate who speaks to the this kind of big tent that is the Democratic Party and not just the center and arguably in like focusing on independent voters.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how I think we win.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah I don't like there are a lot of you know good potential candidates who've been floated around and um I'm more focused on getting through the midterms and then next year in Virginia are state legislative races.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um that was a very good political answer.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah listen well we have three races in Virginia that are like very flippable.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um you know I think we always get excited by the big like you know glowing like oh who's gonna run for president or you know all the like hey do you have a congressional candidate in your district that could win like if you try.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well uh Connor man this has been a lot of fun dude uh thank you for acting out with me.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah of course thanks for having me