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Saved as Draft Episode 31: The Power of Poetry · Saved as Draft

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was a hot summer day.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Bradley was trying to focus, but his thoughts led him astray.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: The narration I get, but why are you rhyming?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: This episode of the podcast is about poetry, you see.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I figure the best person to talk about that was, well, me.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, fine.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that works.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: But hey, I want to try something different with this episode.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Bradley mulled over the plan in his head.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: If it didn't work out, he'd be as good as dead.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't think the stakes are that high.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: He wished to share a new format with his audience around the stack.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: If they didn't like it, he would just change it back.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, yes, that's correct.
• 0:45
  So,
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  this episode,
• 0:47
  I'm going to incorporate transitions between each of the
• 0:49
  segments.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make the show feel like one of those classic radio shows,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: so we'll test it out and see how it goes.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, damn it, now I'm rhyming.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So sit back and enjoy an episode full of mystery.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps it will be the greatest episode in Saved as Draft history.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let's not get ahead of ourselves,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: my friend,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: but since you said the name of the show,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: that means this intro is at an end.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, damn, I did it again.
• 1:30
  Hello everyone,
• 1:31
  and welcome to episode 31 of the Save Just Draft podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Today's episode,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: as I mentioned in the opener,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: will incorporate some new segues between each of our segments.
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  This is designed to keep things interesting for your ears and
• 1:43
  stimulating for your mind.
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  It's also an excuse for me to do more jokes and funny voices,
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  so honestly,
• 1:48
  everybody wins.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Ha ha ha.
• 1:50
  I also wanted to share that I posted a new analog horror piece
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  this week for Meg's
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ogtober challenge that has prompts every single week.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: My entry,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Tape 47,
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  is a prequel to the upcoming narrative podcast set in the
• 2:03
  universe of the animated
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  SPEAKER_02: series I'm writing.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you get a chance to give it a listen, I'd love to know what you think.
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  This week's guest on the show is also a dear friend of mine and
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  a wildly talented
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  SPEAKER_02: poet by the name of Hazel Allen.
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  We have an absolutely incredible conversation coming up on this
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  episode about
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  SPEAKER_02: Hazel's work and what they're doing over on the Bookstack catalog.
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  SPEAKER_02: So stick around for that interview later in the show.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and another announcement.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: My friend and fellow Audio Maze's author,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: J.
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  SPEAKER_02: Allen Winchester,
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  SPEAKER_02: just had his first Audio Maze's book released this week.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Meet Me by the Thorn,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: and here's a description to give you an idea of what it's about.
• 2:38
  M.
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  Emerald Easton was let go from her job and dumped by her
• 2:41
  long-term boyfriend on the same day.
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  Rather than feel sorry for herself,
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  she splurges her savings on a camping trip.
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  SPEAKER_02: Arriving at Mount Mitchell State Park,
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  she can't remember how to reach a specific spot her parents
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  always brought them to.
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  Park Ranger Valen recognizes her last name when she checks in
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  and offers to take
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  SPEAKER_02: her up there,
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  SPEAKER_02: hoping to find out how he knows her.
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  On the trail,
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  they debate their taste in tech,
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  but they both enjoy their fantasy games.
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  When Em hears children giggling,
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  she finds a Carolina Hawthorne tree off the trail.
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  SPEAKER_02: Approaching, she unknowingly crosses a circle of mushrooms.
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  SPEAKER_02: Trapped inside, she isn't alone.
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  SPEAKER_02: Fae creatures appear,
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  SPEAKER_02: and their watchman recognizes her,
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  SPEAKER_02: claiming to have been waiting for her return.
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  Em recalls why her childhood trips felt so enchanting when she
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  discovers a hidden
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  SPEAKER_02: spring by the hawthorn tree.
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  SPEAKER_02: The reunion reveals a path she had been seeking for years.
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  Check the link in the show notes below to learn more and sign
• 3:31
  up for Audio Mazes
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  SPEAKER_02: today for access to this book and many others,
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  SPEAKER_02: including my first Audio Maze called Dragon's Domain.
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  SPEAKER_02: There's some really cool stuff coming down the pipeline over there,
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  so now's the time to jump in and find out what these immersive
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  audio adventures are
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  SPEAKER_02: all about.
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  SPEAKER_02: Remember,
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  SPEAKER_02: every Audio Maze's story has multiple paths,
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  SPEAKER_02: endings,
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  SPEAKER_02: and even achievements to unlock as well.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really cool.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Alright,
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  SPEAKER_02: next up this week is our weekly shoutouts,
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  SPEAKER_02: but first,
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  SPEAKER_02: a message from this week's sponsor.
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  SPEAKER_02: And don't worry, it's not a real ad.
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  This week's episode of the Saved as Draft podcast is brought to
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  you by Poetry.
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  SPEAKER_02: Poetry is beautiful.
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  SPEAKER_02: Poetry is sweet.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you ask me, I think poetry is pretty neat.
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  SPEAKER_02: Hey, what's wrong?
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  I just read a poem from this week's featured guest,
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  Hazel Allen,
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  and it was so beautiful.
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  SPEAKER_02: Hey, well that means it's working.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let me take a look.
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  SPEAKER_02: Oh God, it's so beautiful.
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  Thank you to Poetry for sponsoring today's episode of the Saved
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  as Draft podcast.
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  SPEAKER_02: Poetry, because sometimes you just really need to feel something.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: All right, and we are back, and it's time for this week's shoutouts.
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  In this segment,
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  I pick five stories at random from a weekly thread in my
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  subscriber chat.
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  And remember,
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  I open that thread every Tuesday for people to submit their
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  links.
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  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't had a story featured on here,
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  SPEAKER_02: be sure to keep sharing your work in that thread each week.
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  And those same links will be featured as well over on Mina
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  Howell's Penny Dreadfuls
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  SPEAKER_02: podcast,
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  SPEAKER_02: where she selects a few of her own.
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  So one link gets you two chances to be featured,
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  and you really can't beat those odds.
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  First this week is Earn Your Place by Emma Steele,
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  and that's urn spelled U-R-N.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is a nice play on words for the title,
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  and indeed the story centers around a collection of urns on top
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  of a fireplace
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  SPEAKER_02: mantle,
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  SPEAKER_02: each of which have their own story to tell.
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  SPEAKER_02: This story is a flash fiction piece,
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  but the most impressive aspect of it is how Emma is able to
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  pack in a ton of rich
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  SPEAKER_02: backstory
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  SPEAKER_02: and characterization in a short amount of time.
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  SPEAKER_02: None of it feels forced either,
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  SPEAKER_02: it all flows effortlessly,
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  but she uses the urns as sort of a grounding mechanism to bring
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  things back to the
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  SPEAKER_02: present each time.
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  The story also features a surprise near the end that I actually
• 5:55
  wasn't expecting,
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  SPEAKER_02: but it was wonderfully foreshadowed earlier in the story.
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  It's a detailed and beautifully written piece of writing with a
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  rich narrative,
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  and I would venture to say it's a perfect example of how you
• 6:05
  can do a compelling
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  SPEAKER_02: and believable story in the span of a flash fiction word count.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's really nice stuff.
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  SPEAKER_02: Here's an excerpt I enjoyed.
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  SPEAKER_02: It had been years since Susie, my sister, had been there.
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  SPEAKER_02: After the breakup of her marriage,
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  SPEAKER_02: she had moved to where work was,
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  SPEAKER_02: and schooling was affordable for Toby,
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  SPEAKER_02: my nephew.
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  SPEAKER_02: He had only visited the house once,
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  SPEAKER_02: a baby in arms,
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  when Susie had come after one of the frequent arguments with
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  her now ex-husband,
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  staying a few days before returning with the justification that
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  he loved her,
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  SPEAKER_02: and really didn't mean anything by it.
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  He wasn't really a violent man,
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  although the evidence of bruises spoke to the contrary.
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  SPEAKER_02: Excellent work.
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  SPEAKER_02: Check the show notes for a link.
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  SPEAKER_02: Second this week is Winter Wonders by J.R.
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  SPEAKER_02: Phillips.
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  This story has several things going for it,
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  not the least of which is J.R.
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  SPEAKER_02: Phillips' phenomenal writing style.
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  There's an almost lyrical flow to this dark fairy tale that
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  blends beautifully with
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  SPEAKER_02: the rich and vibrant word choice.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's a story that bobs and weaves,
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  SPEAKER_02: using pull quotes to highlight internal thoughts,
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  SPEAKER_02: which honestly isn't something I've seen before,
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  SPEAKER_02: but I love it as a formatting choice.
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  All of it culminates in an intriguing conclusion that left me
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  on the edge of my seat.
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  SPEAKER_02: Here's an excerpt that I really enjoyed.
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  SPEAKER_02: The rabbit opened her eyes to pointed teeth wrapped in crimson lips.
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  The woman's pale face would have been mesmerizing if not for
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  the empty gray of her eyes.
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  SPEAKER_02: They were like tiny moons that refused the sun's grace,
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  SPEAKER_02: a walking blasphemy pretending to be nature's kin.
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  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day,
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  the story there's also a message about how JR Phillips is
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  working on a tabletop
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  board game so check the show notes for a link to the story and
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  at the end check out
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: that other link to learn more.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Third this week is Body Horror by Suswadi Basu.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is a dark and powerful poem about the horrors that people inflict on
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  themselves in the name of looking quote unquote beautiful by
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  society's impossible
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  SPEAKER_02: standards.
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  It reframes things like cosmetic surgery and body dysmorphia
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  into a horror-tinged poem
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  SPEAKER_02: that focuses on shocking stanzas and wildly vivid imagery.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's incredibly impactful and more than a little shocking,
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  SPEAKER_02: so check the content warning before you dive in.
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  SPEAKER_02: But here's one stanza that'll give you an idea of what's in store.
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  SPEAKER_02: The dysmorphia makes the metallic mesh suppress urges for more distress.
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  SPEAKER_02: A wave of severe nausea hits with each incision into your flesh.
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  I am so glad Sue Swati is back and publishing poetry because it
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  is incredible.
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  SPEAKER_02: Find a link in the show notes.
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  SPEAKER_02: Fourth this week is A Letter to All My Children by Melanie Cole.
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  SPEAKER_02: This piece opens by addressing the letter to children that don't exist,
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  SPEAKER_02: or as Melanie states,
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  SPEAKER_02: the children I will never have.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's a powerful opening line,
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  and it leads into several names and descriptions that explain
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  why these fictional
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  SPEAKER_02: children were named as such,
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  SPEAKER_02: making them feel even more real.
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  SPEAKER_02: From there,
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  the piece turns into an honest and genuine look at all the
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  things she would tell
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  SPEAKER_02: them if she could.
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  It's raw,
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  emotional,
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  and honestly,
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  it contains messages that we all need to hear.
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  It's a powerful piece that is both matter-of-fact and
• 9:32
  beautifully heartfelt in equal measure.
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  SPEAKER_02: A truly creative and resonant piece of writing.
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  SPEAKER_02: Here's an excerpt I enjoyed.
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  SPEAKER_02: I cannot promise you a happier and an easy life.
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  I cannot promise you a life where those around you see or
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  understand the extent of
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  SPEAKER_02: your suffering.
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  SPEAKER_02: But I can promise that it will make you more compassionate.
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  I can promise that it will make you feel everything,
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  down to the funny bone.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is, of course, a double-edged sword.
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  You will experience times,
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  many,
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  many times,
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  when the world does not understand you.
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  SPEAKER_02: The best way to combat that is to try to understand yourself.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's easy to tell someone to love themselves,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: but it is a whole different process to learn to love yourself.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Try.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Try to love yourself.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is one of the most important steps you can make in life.
• 10:19
  So much will be taken from you,
• 10:20
  and you will need to love yourself through it all.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I got chills reading that.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Incredible work from Melanie.
• 10:27
  And once again,
• 10:27
  I really think this is something everybody could benefit from
• 10:30
  reading.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So please check the show notes for a link.
• 10:32
  Our final shout out this week is The Overlook Hotel by The
• 10:36
  Verdant Butterfly.
• 10:37
  I'm excited for this because it has been far too long since
• 10:40
  I've read The Verdant
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Butterfly's work.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And once again,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm utterly captivated by this piece's atmospheric,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: confident,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: and sharp writing voice.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: It immediately pops up.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: pulls you in.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: This story is told from the perspective of a place that defies reality.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's called The Overlook,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: but as the story goes on,
• 10:56
  you'll soon discover that it has power and influence beyond any
• 10:59
  walls that it may
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: or may not have ever had.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not limited to a single building, at least not anymore.
• 11:04
  It's a story that acts as a warning,
• 11:07
  though there's nothing you can do about it.
• 11:08
  And I love that sort of background dread that builds over the
• 11:11
  course of the piece.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautifully written and haunting in many ways as well.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Here's an excerpt that I enjoyed.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You think ghosts are stuck?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're used.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: They power the place.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Light the bulbs.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oil the hinges.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Make the walls breathe.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: When I burned, they said it was over.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Said the snow took me.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Said Danny escaped.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: They were wrong.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Fire doesn't cleanse.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: It clarifies.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: The walls are gone, but I still stand.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: In the blueprints.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: In the photographs.
• 11:42
  In the dreams of architects who wake up scribbling sketches
• 11:46
  they don't remember drawing.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm shifting.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Rebuilding.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Slowly.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Elsewhere.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because places like me don't die.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: They migrate.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so good.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: You see what I mean?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's a piece that exists at the intersection of poetry,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: prose,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: fairy tales,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: and a little bit of ancient myth for good measure.
• 12:06
  It's also yet another example of why I love every single thing
• 12:10
  the Verdant Butterfly writes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So this was a wonderful way to finish this week's shoutouts.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And next,
• 12:15
  don't turn that metaphorical dial because we're coming up on
• 12:18
  our level three
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: power-up prompts right after this short message.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey there, this is Chill Bradley here with a quick reminder.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Life is chaos.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Stress comes at us from every angle.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it can be pretty overwhelming.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here to remind you to stop and take a breath from time to time.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is Mindful Moments, podcast edition.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a quote to consider.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: John Kabat-Zinn Life isn't a race, even if it feels like that sometimes.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's no rush.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the journey.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when the storms start to roll in,
• 13:05
  do your best to find those moments of peace where you can
• 13:08
  breathe and recharge.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Remember,
• 13:12
  it's better to get a little done each day than to get a bunch
• 13:14
  done and burn
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: yourself out for several days or weeks.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Treat every day like a marathon, not a sprint.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to earn your rest either.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: You deserve it as much as anyone else.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Chill Bradley, and this has been Mindful Moments.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And now we return you to your regularly scheduled podcast.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we're back.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's time for this week's Level 3 Power-Up Prompt Stories.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: This week's prompt was fantasy,
• 13:47
  and I also gave everyone three optional Divine variants on the
• 13:50
  prompt to celebrate
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: the launch of my final Divine prelude story.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: More on that at the end of this segment.
• 13:56
  Our first Level 3 Power-Up Prompt Story this week is Seed of
• 13:59
  Shadows by Clara McGauffin.
• 14:02
  This story was an incredible representation of the Sarai Rishan
• 14:06
  character from Divine.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not only does it get her personality exactly right,
• 14:10
  but it also has some insanely amazing imagery around the rot as
• 14:14
  well and the way
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: that it's described.
• 14:16
  It just fits so beautifully into Devine's world and it captures
• 14:20
  that horror of the
• 14:21
  rot and the magic of Devine alongside Sarai's character and her
• 14:25
  sort of stoic
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: personality that makes her both quiet and mysterious at the same time.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Really amazing work from Clara here,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: and my first story I've read from her,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: actually,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: so I'm excited to read more.
• 14:36
  Our second power-up prompt story this week is The Anguish of
• 14:38
  the World Tree by Mina Howell.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: This was actually a Devine poem,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: which was really surprising to see and very welcome,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: because there hasn't been many.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've done one myself in one of the preludes, and that's it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: But in this one,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mina takes us into the mind of Melisari,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: as she's running from the rot and trying to escape Avondale.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in Devine...
• 14:57
  Elves have a telepathic connection to the world tree at the
• 15:00
  center of Avondale
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Forest,
• 15:02
  and this kind of sentient tree is able to communicate with them
• 15:05
  across vast
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: distances,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: but it also means that they share emotions and pain.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So in this poem here, we really understand how that connection
• 15:14
  traumatized melissari but also how it drove her to get revenge
• 15:18
  after she escaped
• 15:19
  it's a wonderful piece and like i said one of the few devine
• 15:22
  poems that we've seen
• 15:23
  so shout out to mina howell for doing this one and doing it in
• 15:26
  such a creative way
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: i love this our next power up
• 15:29
  prompt level three story this week is The Day the Wisdom Tree
• 15:32
  Died by Kira Finley.
• 15:34
  So what makes this story really unique and what I loved about
• 15:36
  it is that Kira
• 15:37
  actually reached out to ask me if she could bring the rot from
• 15:40
  Devine into her
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: fantasy world that she's been building.
• 15:44
  And so this story is a prequel to her Jade Dreamer series where
• 15:48
  the Rot does indeed
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: make an appearance.
• 15:50
  And I love that because in Devine,
• 15:52
  the Rot is very much a cosmic sort of entity.
• 15:55
  So at that point,
• 15:57
  it absolutely could find itself in another universe like this.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it actually works really well, makes sense in terms of canon.
• 16:04
  And I love that Kira was able to bring that into her world so
• 16:06
  seamlessly.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's a fantastic story.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Check it out.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: You'll find links to all the power-up prompts in the show notes.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll also drop a link to the final Devine prelude,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: which I'm really excited about because now that these preludes are done,
• 16:17
  the next step is launching the first official Devine series
• 16:21
  called The Order of the
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Pawn that has been years and years in the making.
• 16:25
  So thank you to everyone who's been supporting it,
• 16:28
  who's been checking out the preludes.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: getting to know the cast of the series through those preludes,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: and I promise it will be worth the wait.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: All right,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: and coming up next is our weekly writing discussion,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: but first,
• 16:38
  a brand new segment here as a segue called Storytime with
• 16:42
  Fenton Marybrook.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, my name is Fintan Marybrook, and this is Storytime with Fintan.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Today,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be reading a review of Bradley Ramsey's The Blight,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: written by Derek James Critsburg,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: as part of Dread Reviews 30.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what Derek had to say about this particular story.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Genocide?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Dystopian post-apocalyptic wasteland?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: These heavy themes have nothing on Ramsay's The Blight,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: where a toothless grin,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: a backstabbing buddy,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: and the smoothest cigarette break this side of the apocalypse take place.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: This short is a roller coaster without rails.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hold on tight because this story doesn't just punch readers in the face,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: it knocks out their molars,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: breaks their heart,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: and then lights a cigarette over the rubble.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let's start with the protagonist's mouth,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: which takes more abuse than a piñata at a birthday bash.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: In excruciating detail,
• 17:33
  we witness this man's teeth scatter like candy and confetti
• 17:36
  with every bash.
• 17:38
  By the time his ex-friend turned interrogator finishes cracking
• 17:41
  teeth with his
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: knuckles,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: this guy's grin is more gap than enamel.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: yet he keeps slinging sass and blood.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Forget Resistance Leader, this dude's the patron saint of gumline grit.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Ramsey,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: please give this man a dentist referral in the sequel,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: or at least a straw in a victory smoothie.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: To read the entire review,
• 18:00
  check the show notes for a link to Dread Reviews 30 from Derek
• 18:04
  James Critsburg,
• 18:05
  and thank you again to Derek for this wonderful review of a
• 18:09
  non-Divine story,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: but a pretty good story nonetheless.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Back to the show.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: All right, and we are back for our weekly writing discussion.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Since our guest this week is a world-class poet,
• 18:19
  I thought it'd be fun to discuss poetry in this week's writing
• 18:21
  discussion.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll start us off.
• 18:23
  Poetry is one of those things that I've dabbled in my entire
• 18:26
  writing career,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: going so far as to go back to middle school,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: actually,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think is when I wrote my first poem.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I would never show any of those, but...
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's something where I never thought that I was very good at it,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: but I liked how it was so emotionally charged.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I like the short form nature of it.
• 18:43
  But there was a time for years where I just didn't write it
• 18:46
  because I didn't think
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was any good at it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so fast forward to now.
• 18:49
  And I remember when I first met Hazel on Substack,
• 18:52
  I also met V Walker around that same time.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the two of them were just so,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: so,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: so,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: so supportive about me putting my poetry out there,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: being poets themselves,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: of course.
• 19:02
  And so I really do have to give credit to them for all of the
• 19:06
  poems that you can
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: find now on my content directory,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: which there's a lot of them.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I've written a few just in the last couple of weeks.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And...
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was their support that gave me the confidence to put it out there.
• 19:16
  And I've since really become more acquainted with my poetry
• 19:20
  style and more confident in it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So huge shout out to Hazel,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: this week's guest,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: as well as V.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Walker,
• 19:26
  who was actually a guest on a prior episode of the Saved His
• 19:28
  Draft podcast.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: But enough about me.
• 19:30
  Let's see what some people in the community had to say about
• 19:32
  how poetry affects
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: them and what they think about it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Christine Bode says, I've published two books of poetry.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: My work has been influenced by Charles Bukowski,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Michael Madsen,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Jim Carroll,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Dorothy Parker,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mary Oliver,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: and John Keats,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: among others.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I love many poets.
• 19:48
  I received a letter from Sir Bob Geldof after sending him a
• 19:51
  poem I wrote that his
• 19:52
  work inspired and ended up meeting him three times and I got to
• 19:56
  meet Gabriel Byrne
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: because I wrote a poem about him as well.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So poetry has been good to me.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a great therapy practice too.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool, Christine.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love when you get a chance to meet your heroes.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 20:07
  Alright,
• 20:07
  next up,
• 20:08
  Javier Mixco says,
• 20:10
  I think all writing should have a bit of poetry in it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: I do like to write some stanzas every once in a while,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: but they are all in a file called Scribbles,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: and there's an audience of one for all of it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking forward to seeing who people say are their favorite poets,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm always looking to read more.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Javier, for being here.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: The Autumn Star says,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: My influences are William Carlos Williams, T.S.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Eliot, Gertrude Stein, and Ted Hughes.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm obsessed with spoken word poetry.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Take me back to the early 2000s poetry slams, please and thank you.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Cannot wait for the list of poets to follow here.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: I need more modern poetry.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing I will say is that we didn't get a whole lot of poetry
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: recommendations in that thread on my subscriber chat,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: so please feel free to jump in and add your favorite poets.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I recommend Hazel and V.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Walker,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: but there are plenty,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: plenty more,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: especially if I stop to think about it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And to Autumnstar's point,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: poetry really is something where you have to make every word count,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: and there's something beautiful about that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I absolutely agree with that,
• 21:26
  and I also agree with the fact that I really want to go back to
• 21:28
  poetry slams,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: because yes.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Next up,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: author John G.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Dyer says,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I learned lyricism,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: which I actually don't use a whole lot,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: but it's good to have in your toolkit.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: More valuable was the practice of expressing ideas in a concise manner.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And yes,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: talking about how poetry forces us to be economical with our words,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: that is a huge part of,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: how anyone can practice it.
• 21:50
  Even if you don't consider yourself a poet,
• 21:52
  you're still learning something about word choice.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Next up, Kira Finley says...
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely a fan of poetry.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's my favorite form of self-expression.
• 22:00
  I find I can alchemize a situation faster with poetry than with
• 22:04
  any other kind of
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: writing or expression for me.
• 22:06
  I only dabbled with it until I lived in LA and started writing
• 22:09
  spoken word poetry
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: for a community I was a part of.
• 22:12
  Now those pieces are some of what I'm most proud of creatively
• 22:15
  because they truly
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: hold a piece of me.
• 22:17
  Also,
• 22:17
  our most ancient languages were much more poetic than literal,
• 22:20
  and that gives me a clue.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: I believe poetry is magic.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: We can ride our way out.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're writing a spell over ourselves and others who engage,
• 22:28
  and the beautiful thing is that everyone takes away something
• 22:30
  different from a
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: poem,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: and they get what they need.
• 22:33
  beautifully said kira and i wholeheartedly agree there is a
• 22:36
  magic to poetry that
• 22:37
  sort of defies science if i'm being honest i mean think about
• 22:40
  it you write a poem
• 22:41
  and as kira said it can be interpreted so many different ways
• 22:44
  and it can resonate
• 22:45
  with people in a deep deep way that you have never met and
• 22:48
  maybe never will meet
• 22:49
  and that's crazy to me it's like a quantum kind of event it's
• 22:52
  insane so yes thank
• 22:54
  you kira for that and thank you to everybody who shared their
• 22:56
  thoughts for this
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: week's writing discussion uh next up we have our featured guest interview
• 23:01
  And so without any further delay,
• 23:03
  I want to take us to our featured guest,
• 23:05
  Hazel Allen.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And please enjoy this interview.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of my favorites so far that I've done on the show.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this week,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm extremely excited to announce to the show a new guest,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: a poet,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: and the creator of the Bookstack catalog.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Please welcome to the show, Hazel Allen.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Hazel, thanks for being here.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is going to be a great interview.
• 23:26
  So let's start off by having you just tell us a little bit
• 23:28
  about yourself and your
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: creative journey that's led you here thus far.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, like we've introduced, I am Hazel Allen.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I've been writing for several years.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm from Oregon.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: I started writing like actually like back in high school.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think even earlier than that,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: like middle school,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing like really wacky,
• 23:50
  like crazy short stories that would definitely be like very
• 23:56
  offensive like
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: nowadays.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not going to talk much about that.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was very limited understanding.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, my poetry itself like started back in middle school.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: There was a poem that I wrote for a class once.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was for like a contest, I believe.
• 24:14
  um it was about like it was about the four seasons so uh pretty
• 24:18
  pretty basic like
• 24:20
  concepts like right there but i'm very fond of the of the
• 24:26
  memory of that poem i
• 24:29
  just don't have it with me anymore and like thinking about that
• 24:32
  it makes me a
• 24:33
  little bit sad because i really like how it turned out um back
• 24:37
  then especially
• 24:38
  because it was like my first like like like real go at like
• 24:42
  writing a poem
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: But aside from that,
• 24:46
  in high school is when I started getting more serious about
• 24:50
  writing poetry.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I would write a lot on a website called Wattpad.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And the poems on there weren't very good.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: They were definitely like starting off.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: They were very emotional based.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: There was not a lot of depth to them.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: And they were all, for the most part, really short.
• 25:12
  And a lot of them were also sort of like lyrical based because
• 25:17
  I would listen to a lot of music
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I would be inspired by the music I would listen to.
• 25:22
  And then I would get into a flow as if I was singing a song or
• 25:28
  something like that,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: or if it was a chorus.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: But eventually,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: in my writing,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: I started trying to experiment more because I knew at the time frame,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: my writing was getting a little bit stale.
• 25:43
  So I tried to work on more narrative poetry,
• 25:47
  more in-depth,
• 25:49
  more well-structured writing.
• 25:51
  There was definitely a lot of poems too like during that time
• 25:55
  frame were like just
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: dark or depressing or like melancholy.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And while a lot of my poetry is still like that,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: I tried to make it more like more of a story like,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: when it comes to like the emotional spectrum.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: I try to paint like stories.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want it to be just one thing.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: I want it to have sort of like a sense of a...
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: beginning, middle, and end.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: there's also been like,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: since I started,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've also had one of my poems get published in an anthology,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: and then I released my first poetry chapbook back in December of,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: I believe,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: if I remember correctly,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: December of 2023.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was like Christmas Eve when it got published.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: So a little while ago now, but I am very...
• 26:54
  fond of like that poetry book like it means a lot to me so yeah
• 26:59
  yeah that's a
• 27:00
  that's a probably more more than everybody needs you know but
• 27:05
  no that was that that
• 27:06
  was a fantastic answer um quick follow-up question what is the
• 27:10
  title it's escaping
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: me what's the title of your poetry chat book that you published
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's, I believe, Inside the Sun and Moon.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 27:20
  and I'll make sure to include a link to that in the show notes
• 27:22
  along with anything
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: else that you would like to include there.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So having published your own chapbook, what was that experience like?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of lessons did you learn?
• 27:33
  And kind of what advice would you give to other poets that may
• 27:35
  want to try and do
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: the same thing?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was working on this poetry collection in particular,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: it was back during a timeframe when I was also,
• 27:45
  and we were talking about NaNoWriMo a little bit before this
• 27:48
  podcast started,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: but I was actually doing like NaNoWriMo that year as well.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I was trying to juggle like,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: completing the challenge for that while also preparing this poetry book.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: For a long time,
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: I never really felt like my work,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: deserved to be in any actual,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: book itself,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: with my poetry.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I also just didn't think, like...
• 28:15
  i i didn't know if i really wanted to do it i was just kind of
• 28:19
  always a bit anxious
• 28:20
  about like the whole process and everything but um i had
• 28:25
  friends like encouraged me
• 28:26
  like throughout the years like to just do it anyways um just
• 28:30
  get it out there and
• 28:33
  and so eventually i just kind of gave in and just tried it and
• 28:38
  it was definitely a
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: learning process because it was the first time
• 28:43
  And I had to scramble a lot to figure things out,
• 28:50
  to meet the deadlines that I had set for it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I was actually running a little bit late on that,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: so that's why it came out later in December instead of early December.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you want to...
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because for the holidays, you want to be as early as possible.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So people can get it as a gift for their friends or family and stuff.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Not on the day before Christmas.
• 29:21
  Because while some people might be doing their last minute
• 29:25
  Christmas shopping like
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: them,
• 29:27
  most people are probably not going to just order a book online
• 29:31
  because it's going
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: to get shipped out
• 29:34
  like like after the holiday um so that was definitely one
• 29:39
  learning experience but
• 29:41
  at the same time i just thought it was fun that it ended up
• 29:45
  like being that late in
• 29:46
  the month um there was also like some learning hassles with
• 29:51
  like like formatting
• 29:52
  like the interior of the book like keeping in mind like margins
• 29:56
  and stuff um that's
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: always like
• 30:01
  I don't think a lot of people realize how important,
• 30:04
  like,
• 30:04
  the margins are because there's a...
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: I forget the term,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: but,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: because of how the spine is set up,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: how it's binded,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: part of the page on,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: the right,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: sheets of paper actually gets sucked in more into the spine.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, there's that.
• 30:27
  So,
• 30:27
  like,
• 30:27
  if you don't margin it,
• 30:28
  like,
• 30:28
  properly,
• 30:29
  then,
• 30:29
  like,
• 30:30
  you end up having your...
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: your text sucked into the spine area and it's less visible.
• 30:36
  So that was definitely one issue that I had to fix when I got
• 30:41
  my first test copy of
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: the collection.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:46
  I honestly,
• 30:47
  I haven't self-published anything myself,
• 30:49
  but I would not have thought of that.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: It makes a lot of sense, but it would have slipped my mind for sure.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really good advice.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: So as you mentioned,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: you typically do poetry,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: obviously,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: but you've also done short stories and short fiction and stuff like that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: What is the ratio of the two?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like 70% poetry, 30% fiction?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 31:11
  uh beyond that how how do the two differ for you are the themes
• 31:15
  similar or like
• 31:16
  like how does how do you kind of switch from one to the other
• 31:18
  when you're working
• 31:19
  so i would say that for the ratio itself it's probably more
• 31:23
  like 90 to 95 percent
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: poetry okay and the reasoning for this is that um
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've had more practice with poetry.
• 31:34
  It's easier for me to write a poem than it is for me to write a
• 31:38
  short story.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, poetry takes less time.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: So when I know I don't have a whole lot of time to focus or...
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: I am,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: if my attention span is running a bit short,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can quickly get a poem out,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: no problem.
• 32:01
  If I want,
• 32:02
  like,
• 32:02
  a more in-depth poem,
• 32:03
  it's,
• 32:03
  like,
• 32:03
  it's going to take a little bit more time.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I generally get those out, like, a bit easier.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: With short stories, I would say that, like...
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: They definitely take more time to plan out, and I'm obviously a pantser.
• 32:21
  I don't really focus too much on outlining the plot or anything
• 32:25
  like that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I will write the first draft in a free write, essentially.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like a 15 minute, 30 minutes, depending on how long it needs to be.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll tweak it from there.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: But for the most part,
• 32:43
  I don't really spend a whole lot of time editing and revising
• 32:47
  my stories and stuff.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've obviously sent some stuff to you in the past to have you look at it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: But...
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: They used this as an example.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's slipping my memory now.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: But the Midnight Collective stuff that I was working on,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really do any editing for that after I put it up.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just put a note as like, this has been barely edited.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: So people know it's more of a rough draft.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of how I handled that part of it.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: For the themes and stuff,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: you can get more in-depth with your story,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: like when you're writing a short story or flash fiction.
• 33:35
  With poetry,
• 33:36
  you kind of have more limitations on how to craft that story.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: So when it comes to themes,
• 33:43
  there's obviously going to be some differences on how you focus
• 33:47
  on each aspect.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Poetry is going to be often more emotional.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's how a lot of people write their poetry.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good way to vent and get your feelings out.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I definitely do put more emotions into the poetry that I write.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: In the short stories that I write,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: I want to think about,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: what's exciting,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: what will,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: blow people's minds,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: and how I can craft a,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: compelling,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: but again,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: emotional sort of,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: payoff for,
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: those reading it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: How will it affect the readers?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: that's a big part of like the short stories.
• 34:34
  I will say too about like,
• 34:36
  I do think about how like my poetry will affect the readers as
• 34:39
  well.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of blowing the reader's minds with the short stories,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: if it's okay,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to quickly just touch upon that Midnight Collective.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I believe it was three stories that you did.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that started as a bet,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: if I recall correctly,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: that if a post of yours,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think if it reached a certain number of likes and restacks,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: we had basically,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: friendly,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: but pressured you into writing a horror story.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where the Midnight Collective came from.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Am I remembering that correctly?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you are remembering that correctly.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that as well.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very fond of how that turned out.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I do have to say, for the story that we used the bet for,
• 35:29
  uh it was the witches like shopping list i think it was called
• 35:33
  yeah that story was
• 35:34
  really well written i think it would have done well like even
• 35:38
  without the bet um
• 35:40
  but seeing like the numbers like like just go up like i've not
• 35:45
  like i never like
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: envisioned like a single story getting like that amount of attention um
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really think you guys would go all out on the bed either.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Many of you guys did.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then it spawned three stories out of that.
• 36:01
  And I'm even thinking about doing other projects with that
• 36:06
  universe as well.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Actually,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: now that I'm remembering it,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: I did write a little prequel story for that universe as well.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's based around...
• 36:18
  uh alex and his relationship with his dad um i think that was
• 36:24
  based off of like
• 36:25
  another one of your your prompts i'd say um let me let me pull
• 36:31
  that up actually
• 36:33
  yeah it should be if i'm not mistaken i was looking at it on my
• 36:35
  side here it's the
• 36:36
  boy made of air right is that the correct one we're talking
• 36:39
  about here yeah
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: actually no that might have been one of my prompts
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: I remember error being a prompt and I want to say it was one of yours.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I like, I mentioned the bad, like,
• 36:53
  in the in the post for that too yeah um this one was very
• 36:57
  interesting i didn't i
• 36:58
  didn't know like how it was going to turn out i i do remember
• 37:02
  why i thought it was
• 37:03
  one of your props though it was because i was originally going
• 37:07
  to write this based
• 37:09
  off of one of your props um it was about like um like a
• 37:14
  character that knows he's
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: evil
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yes.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that one.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:19
  But I ended up incorporating it into the specific prompt
• 37:23
  because I just thought it
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: was fascinating.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like it fit Alex's character really well, too.
• 37:31
  yeah no absolutely yeah i i will absolutely make sure to
• 37:35
  include all of these
• 37:35
  midnight collective stories in the show notes so people can
• 37:38
  check it out because i
• 37:40
  i still think about that some of those stories in that series
• 37:44
  that you did i mean
• 37:45
  it was i know you don't typically you know as you said like
• 37:49
  it's it's 95 poetry and
• 37:50
  your poetry is just on an entirely different level um but when
• 37:55
  you do decide to do
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: short fiction especially with that horror series i mean
• 37:59
  I'm not exaggerating when I say that that that story will live
• 38:02
  rent free in my head forever.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was incredible.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I anybody who's listening to this,
• 38:06
  you absolutely should check it out and you will find links in
• 38:09
  the show notes.
• 38:09
  It is phenomenal storytelling and some truly incredible
• 38:13
  characters as well.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to talk about that briefly here.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 38:18
  so now I would like to shift focus over to the work that you've
• 38:22
  been doing with
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: other publications,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: starting with,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: and I know it was just,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: it was sort of sunset recently,
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: but for a while there you were working with a few other people on a,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: it was Edgar Allen Poe.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was the potato collective.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: If I recall correctly was the name of it.
• 38:39
  And it's still up,
• 38:39
  obviously you,
• 38:40
  you,
• 38:40
  you,
• 38:41
  you have it available as an archive.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a combination of Edgar Allan Poe and potatoes.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I gotta ask, what's the deal with the potatoes?
• 38:52
  Potatoes have like sort of like a long,
• 38:55
  it's a piece of my lore essentially.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: for a while,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: I always,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: for a while when I was younger,
• 39:05
  I would refer to myself as a potato with sort of like a
• 39:08
  negative like connotation
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: to it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:11
  And then over the years,
• 39:13
  I've started kind of just growing more fond of the term like
• 39:17
  potato.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: And how it sounds.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's these kawaii potato images online and stuff.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: And those are just adorable.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: And over time,
• 39:33
  seeing the more positive aspects of what a potato could mean
• 39:38
  sort of rubbed off on
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: me.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I had this username.
• 39:46
  um for a while and some of my stuff and i still use it for like
• 39:49
  like games and like
• 39:50
  things like that where i would refer to myself as the apathetic
• 39:55
  like potato um the
• 39:57
  apathetic part comes from like my because i struggle with a
• 40:01
  sense of apathy um
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: because i'm autistic um
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: And not every autistic person is going to struggle with that sensation,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: but that's one of my struggles.
• 40:13
  And so I meshed it in with my username for a lot of online
• 40:18
  stuff because it feels
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: like a very solid username.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: And eventually it even became part of a,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: excuse my language for a second,
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: of a queer shitposting meme page that I used to run.
• 40:34
  okay on facebook which actually gave like quite a following
• 40:39
  before i stepped away
• 40:40
  from it um it was a lot of fun it was just um it was an
• 40:44
  accident that it became a
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: uh shit posting page it was supposed to be for my writing that's so funny
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's quite a history there.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I like including nods to the whole potato thing.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: I also love potatoes as a food.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Not mashed potatoes.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: I know that's going to get some hate.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like mashed potatoes.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I like...
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I like making,
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: I like dicing up potatoes,
• 41:20
  throwing them in some oil and then like spicing them up with a
• 41:24
  lot of different
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: like spices and herbs and then just baking those in the oven.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: It comes out really good.
• 41:29
  So yeah,
• 41:30
  I'm just very,
• 41:32
  I'm very fond of like the whole like potato thing.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: With the Edgar Allan Poe,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: it's fun because I think I've admitted this to a few people.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually not... I haven't read a whole lot of his work.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoy the aesthetic of his stuff.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: And...
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: He also just serves as inspiration from what I have read.
• 42:04
  I was kind of hoping that through running this sort of
• 42:08
  collaborative community
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: publication that I would be able to get more into reading it.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: But my attention span is kind of limited.
• 42:19
  So I start working on one thing and then I will forget about
• 42:24
  other things.
• 42:26
  um so like so so like to my detriment like uh like i ended up
• 42:31
  just facing out like
• 42:32
  actually reading more of edgar allen post work by doing all
• 42:37
  this other stuff based
• 42:39
  off of this work um i did end up reading a little bit more like
• 42:44
  by the end of the
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: uh of the of the collective
• 42:50
  especially when I was testing out doing some weekly prompts
• 42:56
  there and with that I
• 42:59
  read a few more of his poetry so that was very interesting and
• 43:05
  I will say that I've
• 43:07
  also mentioned this before to some people is that this was a
• 43:12
  very experimental
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: project I didn't imagine it like
• 43:16
  like becoming like as successful as it did and i just didn't
• 43:20
  think i was going to
• 43:21
  be i i didn't want to be as involved with it as i ended up
• 43:25
  being it was mostly like
• 43:27
  something for me to like to start off and then just see how it
• 43:31
  like evolves from
• 43:32
  there but i was more like i think my plan initially was to be
• 43:36
  more of a like a
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: moderator or like advisor um to the people helping me with it
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: rather than me taking on huge chunks of responsibility.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Doing that,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 43:49
  does make it a little bit better because I'm working alongside
• 43:53
  the other people
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: involved,
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: essentially.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: It becomes more of a group effort to make it happen.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it wasn't really my intention for it to turn out that way.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I am grateful for the people that helped out alongside me.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: V Walker,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: especially because she sort of like...
• 44:18
  I would consider her like the co-founder of it because she was
• 44:23
  there from the very
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: start.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then we had some very talented people like...
• 44:29
  uh tp chaos and uh emr uh join us uh uh there too and you um
• 44:37
  stepped on as like
• 44:38
  sort of an advising role for us as well so i'm very grateful
• 44:41
  for that too um every
• 44:44
  like everybody who's been involved with it and like they've all
• 44:47
  done like very
• 44:48
  great and it definitely wouldn't have gotten as far as it did
• 44:52
  without them
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I wholeheartedly agree.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it was amazing to be a part of as well.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: that being said,
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: these days,
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: you are running a different publication,
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: obviously,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: in addition to your own,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: which is the Bookstack catalog.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about that,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: if you would like to kind of share with us,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: where where did that idea come from?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And for those who are unaware, what's it all about?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'll start with what it's about.
• 45:20
  The Bookstack publication is a place for readers to discover
• 45:25
  new reads or their new
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: favorite author.
• 45:29
  And this all stemmed from the author spotlights that I was
• 45:35
  doing back on my
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: personal blog,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hazel Allen Writes.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Basically from almost the very beginning of my time on Substack.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, with those, those were, like, very much a learning process.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was trial and error, like, all the way.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: I would do a few,
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: then I would,
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: sort back at the feedback that people would give me,
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: the authors that were working with me on the spotlights.
• 46:02
  And then,
• 46:02
  like,
• 46:03
  I would take that feedback and then make the spotlights better.
• 46:08
  And I'm going to look up their name real quick just to make
• 46:12
  sure that I don't accidentally...
• 46:16
  mispronounce it like the order i wanted to give a shout out to
• 46:20
  someone sure
• 46:21
  absolutely um my my very first author spotlight was uh done for
• 46:27
  somebody whose name
• 46:29
  is maya brown jackson and she was very vital because with my
• 46:35
  first spotlight i had
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: no clue like what i was doing whatsoever and
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: We had like, we had quite a few conversations about it.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: And like,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: she did a lot more than what she really had to,
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: than what she was really obligated to,
• 46:55
  like to help me actually like get these things like kicked off
• 46:58
  and running.
• 46:59
  because it was very much a learning experience for me that very
• 47:02
  first like
• 47:04
  spotlight and I'm forever grateful for her because like I don't
• 47:10
  know if like if the
• 47:11
  spotlights would have gotten as far as they did like without
• 47:15
  her so she is on
• 47:16
  Substack so if you want to like link to her profile on here
• 47:22
  like you definitely can
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: she's a poet too so like go support her work
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: We'll make sure to include that in the show notes,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: a link to that spotlight,
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: and we'll tag her as well.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, very nice.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, so Bookstack, it seems like it's going really well so far.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you've got the catalog on there.
• 47:41
  You've been doing weekly prompts from Bookstack as well,
• 47:43
  if I'm not mistaken,
• 47:44
  right?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: we should actually,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: before we get to that though,
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: we should talk about the catalog too,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: because that's a very big part of the move to the book stack publication.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: That was an idea that I kind of went to you about a while ago.
• 48:03
  You encouraged me to do some sort of researching and seeing if
• 48:09
  people would be interested.
• 48:11
  and so like i did a survey and had some people respond to that
• 48:15
  um and like they
• 48:18
  were all interested in it uh for the most part um so i ended up
• 48:22
  letting it sit for
• 48:23
  a little while afterwards though and then coming back to it
• 48:26
  like again later when i
• 48:28
  was more like i think more ready to take on the challenge um
• 48:33
  and then it started
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: kind of growing from there i like i like i never
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: I say this a lot,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: with a lot of my projects and everything,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: but I never thought it would get as far as it has.
• 48:46
  The catalog's very interesting because it did stem from how you
• 48:53
  and other people
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: were creating these indexes,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: these directories for your guys' stories and stuff.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought to myself,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: it's like,
• 49:04
  I could utilize this system and sort of work it in a way that
• 49:12
  would work well as a
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: substack-based catalog.
• 49:17
  so it was very interesting and like I will say like yeah I do
• 49:23
  like charge like a
• 49:25
  fee for it the main reason for that was to well there's two
• 49:31
  reasons for that
• 49:33
  um the first one is just sort of make it so like it's not i'm
• 49:38
  not just receiving
• 49:39
  like a bunch of like spam like the people that are getting
• 49:44
  their books listed on
• 49:46
  this catalog are doing so uh because they're really serious
• 49:50
  about getting their
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: stuff advertised right
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: I do understand that the fee,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: even though it is really cheap per book,
• 49:59
  it can still be a barrier to some writers who can't necessarily
• 50:05
  afford to put
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: towards advertising too much money.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: There are a lot of free resources,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: that I do try to offer free resources as well,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: like the Offer Spotlights,
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: and then the other post that I make where I make my release radar,
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: which I think is on pause right now,
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: but I do try to create sort of a balance with that.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Even if you're unable...
• 50:35
  do you get your books listed on the catalog itself there are
• 50:39
  other ways for your
• 50:41
  your work to appear like on the the publication right yeah and
• 50:46
  and if i'm not
• 50:47
  mistaken you can also um people can uh apply to that to be
• 50:52
  spotlighted as well is
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: that right
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's the forum.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was trying,
• 50:58
  I was going to test out a option where people can sort of cut
• 51:01
  the line by paying a
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: small fee.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, I kind of decided to go back on that.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:13
  One,
• 51:13
  like,
• 51:14
  I don't think something like that really sits well with people.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: And also just didn't really sit well with me.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I was the one trying to test it out.
• 51:23
  um uh but i i think like because there's so many options
• 51:27
  anyways like there i think
• 51:29
  v walker like also like made a list of like resources for like
• 51:34
  places where you can
• 51:34
  like do spotlights and stuff as well for your work so there's a
• 51:39
  lot of resources
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: for that right um
• 51:42
  So the only time really cutting a line on any of those websites
• 51:47
  is only useful when
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: you have a certain deadline,
• 51:52
  when you have an upcoming book release and you're trying to get
• 51:55
  as much publicity
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: as possible before that release date.
• 52:03
  I feel like that's one of the only times where it might be
• 52:06
  useful to pay a cut-the-line fee.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: But most people are willing, like, the way, like, otherwise.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right, that makes sense.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love what you're doing with BookSack.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to also commend,
• 52:20
  and I know anybody who arrives on the publication would agree
• 52:24
  with me here,
• 52:25
  that you've really grown as a designer as well from a graphic
• 52:30
  design standpoint
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: since I met you.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: Just the branding and the layout,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: the use of color,
• 52:36
  it's just a beautiful catalog in addition to being just rich
• 52:38
  with all kinds of
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: amazing content.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the design is really impressive too.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had to call that out.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: I hate it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you saying that,
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: but for me personally,
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I have to disagree a little bit.
• 52:51
  I think the design for the graphics for the individual listings
• 52:56
  look pretty good,
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: but I feel like most of the overall branding is really basic.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm by no means an actual graphic designer.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm literally just...
• 53:11
  making the stuff in canva right uh i i do think i do a pretty
• 53:16
  decent job but i i i
• 53:18
  i'm not like the best at it uh and there's always going to be
• 53:24
  like so much room for
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_03: like improvement i i think so
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: For sure, for sure.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think that's a fair perspective, for sure.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just,
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: as someone who,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: in my day job,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: I work alongside graphic designers,
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: and I have also tried to level up my canvas skills and stuff,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: but I still kind of take inspiration from some of the work that you do.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to mention that.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Can I cut back for a second?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 53:50
  I think I may have misunderstood what you were saying earlier
• 53:55
  about the applying thing.
• 53:58
  I think you're talking about like the volunteering,
• 54:00
  like a form that I put up recently.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 54:03
  I was actually I was I was I was just trying to see how people
• 54:06
  can kind of get
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: involved.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you said, they can obviously pay to be listed.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 54:11
  what other ways I guess is a better way to phrase the question
• 54:14
  is what other ways
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: can they kind of get involved with Bookstack if they're so inclined?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: one thing is that I have a,
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: I did put up,
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: the volunteering form,
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: so,
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: if you wanted to do,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: more,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: book blogging oriented stuff,
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: but maybe don't have your own platform for that and want to test it out,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 54:35
  i get i can help you learn uh for for the book stack
• 54:39
  publication like i have
• 54:40
  templates uh to follow for like the author spotlights and then
• 54:45
  uh do like some of
• 54:46
  the other stuff so like it'd be pretty easy like to get set up
• 54:50
  with that right um
• 54:52
  plus like i don't have time to run a book stack at the same
• 54:57
  capacity that i was
• 54:58
  running it at before because i ended up getting burnt out from
• 55:01
  that and then next
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: month i have school so uh
• 55:05
  like getting the getting help uh doing that stuff would be very
• 55:09
  very great i i
• 55:11
  would be so grateful for that because i if i could i would be
• 55:15
  running uh bookstack
• 55:17
  like full-time but like if i could afford to like i wouldn't be
• 55:21
  working a full-time
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: job i would just be doing the blog right um
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: But since I can't, it's a little bit stressful.
• 55:29
  But the other way I would say is you can recommend Bookstack to
• 55:36
  people who might be
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: interested in discovering new books to read.
• 55:43
  You can also,
• 55:44
  if you learn about ARC reading opportunities,
• 55:50
  notable events in the
• 55:54
  like community um like you can like let me know like here on
• 55:58
  substack or on my
• 56:01
  email um and then i i can include that in like like a news
• 56:05
  update as well and then
• 56:08
  uh i'm also doing like um it's been a while since i did the
• 56:11
  first episode but um
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: there's the uh writer's role podcast right which i have plans for uh
• 56:18
  for my next guest we just it's just been a weird like few
• 56:22
  months so we haven't
• 56:23
  gotten around to like recording the episode yet but I have
• 56:27
  planned on doing
• 56:29
  interviews with writers for that as well so I think there's
• 56:32
  like a few different
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: ways for people to get involved with the publication so yeah
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's fantastic.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
• 56:40
  I have to also just give a nod to the writer's role podcast
• 56:43
  since I was on that
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: first episode with you.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: the setup you have there,
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: the structure involving the,
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: the role of the dice to kind of decide which questions get asked.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's,
• 56:54
  I think it's really cool and I'm very excited to see more
• 56:56
  episodes of that come
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: out.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: I, I felt like that was just such a, like a fun thing to do.
• 57:01
  It would be,
• 57:02
  it'd definitely be cool at some point if I can get myself like,
• 57:06
  um,
• 57:07
  like a webcam for it and then like actually be able to show
• 57:11
  like well i know not
• 57:13
  every like guest is gonna have like like like a die to roll um
• 57:17
  but like you know
• 57:18
  just finding some way to like show like that a die is being
• 57:23
  rolled right because
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: you can't like necessarily hear it in the audio very well yeah um so like
• 57:30
  definitely expanding upon like the uh the podcast and uh
• 57:35
  improving like that
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: overall experience like the thought of it is really exciting yes yes i
• 57:41
  wholeheartedly agree and um i want i'm gonna make a note right
• 57:44
  now to add a link to
• 57:46
  that first episode uh not just because i'm in it but uh because
• 57:49
  because i like the
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: podcast in general um
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah,
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: so coming up here towards the end of the interview,
• 57:56
  I wanted to just quickly ask what projects you have going on
• 58:00
  outside of Substack,
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: because if I'm not mistaken,
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: you have another chapbook in the works.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: it has been delayed because the burnout that I went through,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_03: I keep referring back to that,
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: but I couldn't focus on any of my writing stuff,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: really,
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: while it was happening.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: I was drained.
• 58:24
  And ultimately,
• 58:25
  it did spawn a lot of me playing solitaire for a while,
• 58:28
  so I'll say that.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:32
  I was working on a poetry chapbook called,
• 58:35
  I believe it's Leaving the Monochrome.
• 58:38
  It's supposed to be a little bit more about my mental health
• 58:44
  and how I struggle with that.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: I can't...
• 58:49
  I guess it promises to be a little bit more,
• 58:52
  I guess,
• 58:53
  dark in theme,
• 58:54
  I guess.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: But I wouldn't really consider it like that.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how heavy it's actually going to read when it comes out.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it will focus more on my mental health.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was supposed to come out already weeks ago.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was supposed to come out on the 22nd of July.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: But right now, it's just delayed.
• 59:16
  I don't have a new release date set for it because I still need
• 59:20
  to finish.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: I finished most of the poetry for it.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's just a little bit more that I need to add,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: and then I have to look it over and make sure.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because it was a smaller project, I thought that, like,
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: If I set,
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: a release date,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: that would serve as a really good deadline,
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: but it ended up having the opposite effects.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I do have some, like, fun surprises for that.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: I have,
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: some pre-order bonuses that once it goes back up,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'll have those,
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: pre-order bonuses ready as well.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's also a...
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: A giveaway that I am planning for that book,
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: I won't be sharing any details about the giveaway itself yet.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's all dependent on when I'm able to have a new set release date,
• 1:00:19
  because it would kind of be weird to have a giveaway without a
• 1:00:23
  book releasing.
• 1:00:25
  right right makes sense yeah okay well definitely looking
• 1:00:29
  forward to that and as
• 1:00:30
  you know i will be getting a copy um um also uh like just uh
• 1:00:35
  just something to know
• 1:00:36
  is that there's other there's another poetry collection that i
• 1:00:40
  have that's also
• 1:00:41
  been like delayed for the time being okay um i forgot what it
• 1:00:45
  was called i
• 1:00:47
  Is that one,
• 1:00:51
  because I think I may have helped beta read it at one point.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: Was it through all the colors?
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a while.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because, again, I struggle with like ADHD and stuff.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: After all the beta reading,
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: like feedback came back to me,
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: my attention to Ben said,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: I can't handle this.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I have the feedback for that.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: I just need to make the revisions.
• 1:01:22
  But we've talked about before that I don't really do a whole
• 1:01:27
  lot of editing or revising.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the things I actively avoid.
• 1:01:30
  So now that I'm in a situation where I have this big poetry
• 1:01:37
  book that I actually
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_03: have to go through and make all these changes to,
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: My brain just gets turned off to it.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was supposed to come out the spring.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was supposed to come out earlier this spring.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's just been a while.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have gotten to see... My grandma is also one of the beta readers.
• 1:02:01
  I sent her a physical copy because she has some issues right
• 1:02:07
  now that sort of...
• 1:02:09
  affecting her ability to use like digital so I sent her a
• 1:02:15
  physical copy and the
• 1:02:16
  last time I visit I actually got to see how it looks and I
• 1:02:22
  didn't include like a
• 1:02:23
  spine for it like a cover for the spine so that one was
• 1:02:28
  obviously just a beta copy
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: cover but the front cover looked fantastic I love the way it turned out
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: I am proud because,
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: I made that on Canva,
• 1:02:43
  so there's always the potential that how you make something on
• 1:02:49
  Canva might not
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: necessarily translate that well.
• 1:02:52
  right um but i think that one turned out like fantastic i i
• 1:02:56
  just love the way that
• 1:02:57
  cover looks um it would be it would be cool like if i can
• 1:03:02
  finally get myself to
• 1:03:03
  work on finishing like the revision for that for this book to
• 1:03:09
  like maybe eventually
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: turn it into like sort of a like a series of volumes
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because for all the colors, that's a pretty broad title.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: That would fit well for a collection.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: I could see that turning into multiple volumes easily.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very cool.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there we go.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we got not one, but two projects in the works from Hazel Allen.
• 1:03:37
  And anybody who's read your poetry knows that they will be
• 1:03:39
  something to look forward to.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited for that.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: And before we wrap up the interview here,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: we have our final question,
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: and this is something where I'm going to call myself out.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: I did not include this in the initial list of questions,
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: and you were right to call me out on it,
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: because we are here,
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: everybody listening to the Saved as Draft podcast,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hazel Allen,
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: we need to know about your cat.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love the way they phrased all that, too.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 1:04:07
  Yeah,
• 1:04:07
  I've had my cat Apollo for,
• 1:04:10
  like,
• 1:04:11
  I would say,
• 1:04:12
  like,
• 1:04:12
  since March of 2024.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's been, like, it's been a long road.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, he has a lot of anxiety.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: He was a strain.
• 1:04:22
  uh before i got them um so like you know like for like yeah i
• 1:04:27
  could just go to the
• 1:04:28
  story mode here uh i was living a really small studio it's like
• 1:04:33
  the size of like a
• 1:04:34
  bedroom essentially with a kitchenette and a bathroom squished
• 1:04:38
  in there it's a very
• 1:04:39
  small space and uh anytime that i would make myself like
• 1:04:44
  something to eat um
• 1:04:46
  because he was he was so food a food insecure you know being a
• 1:04:49
  stray kind of does
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: that to you
• 1:04:52
  I could not eat anything in there without him going ravenous
• 1:04:57
  trying to get it from me.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that was for the first two months.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_03: But then he started to calm down for a while.
• 1:05:07
  after that which was which was nice because like once he got
• 1:05:10
  settled in started
• 1:05:11
  getting used to like like me feeding him like you started to
• 1:05:15
  get more comfortable
• 1:05:17
  that was awesome and like I love him a lot he's he he helped me
• 1:05:24
  out like so much
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: back then because I went from essentially living
• 1:05:30
  uh in a i can't remember like like a three-story house or a
• 1:05:35
  two-story house um it
• 1:05:36
  had a basement but um and a house basically full of like
• 1:05:41
  animals and people still
• 1:05:43
  like this little studio where i was basically by myself and for
• 1:05:47
  like the first few
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: months or so that i was there like
• 1:05:50
  it was miserable and then like the like the relationship that I
• 1:05:53
  was in at the time
• 1:05:54
  like whenever I would go to that person's house like it that
• 1:05:58
  house was humongous
• 1:05:59
  and they had all these pets but then I would get home and then
• 1:06:02
  I would just feel
• 1:06:03
  sad um so like like he got me through like probably just like a
• 1:06:08
  really big like
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_03: struggle uh time um
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: And when I got him,
• 1:06:16
  it was a risky decision on my part financially because I
• 1:06:22
  recently quit my last job
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: before that and had just gotten a new job.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I was financially struggling when I got him.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that could have all went wrong really fast.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm grateful that it didn't.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: And fast forward to now, he's lived with one other cat before.
• 1:06:48
  Because after I got done in that small studio,
• 1:06:51
  I moved in with a roommate,
• 1:06:52
  and they had a cat.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't really acclimate those two cats well together.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: But this time,
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: now that I'm living with my partner,
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: and they have a cat,
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: we're doing our best to be as careful as possible.
• 1:07:11
  about acclimating them when apollo first moved in he was so
• 1:07:17
  anxious uh it was very
• 1:07:20
  worrisome um uh like he was barely eating for like like the
• 1:07:26
  first week um like he
• 1:07:29
  would eat eventually he was just like it was just for most of
• 1:07:32
  the day he would just
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: refuse to and like it worries me a lot when that happens um
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: But he is starting to get a little bit more confident
• 1:07:43
  And we haven't gotten to the point where we can fully acclimate
• 1:07:47
  the cats because
• 1:07:49
  there were some things we were doing that we weren't
• 1:07:52
  necessarily aware of isn't
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: really good for acclimating cats.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: We were doing everything right for the most part.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like one or two things.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or the lack thereof.
• 1:08:03
  One of them is that we need to create positive experiences for
• 1:08:07
  them when they're together.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_03: So feeding them both at the same time in the same room,
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: that creates a positive experience for them.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we're just now realizing that's something we should be doing.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something we're going to be starting up soon.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I...
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love him a lot.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have a lot of cute pictures and stuff.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I could send you some for the show notes or something.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I have this like...
• 1:08:44
  uh cat like fishing rod toy that he loves um he gets very like
• 1:08:51
  like prey like
• 1:08:53
  stalker like mode like you'll hide under bed and he has this
• 1:08:56
  like this he gets into
• 1:08:58
  this position where he's just ready to pounce but he waits so
• 1:09:02
  long to do it uh that
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: like
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: I almost get bored.
• 1:09:13
  He really loves the fact that he's been in a space where he
• 1:09:16
  gets more carpet area as well.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_03: Back at the old place,
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_03: there wasn't a whole lot of carpet,
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: so he'd go skidding along the hardwood floor.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: There was one time where he was running across the hardwood floor,
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: and then he went to go jump onto the shelf
• 1:09:35
  where my roommate had uh their plants and he crashed straight
• 1:09:39
  into the plants oh no
• 1:09:40
  it was terrible yeah yeah he also loved like eating eating
• 1:09:49
  their plants too um yeah
• 1:09:52
  we don't have we don't have any plants here um but that's so
• 1:09:56
  funny i'm just i'm
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_03: just very grateful for him i
• 1:10:01
  yeah it has like again been like learning experience for me
• 1:10:07
  because this is like my
• 1:10:09
  first time like owning like my own cat yeah and so i like to
• 1:10:13
  feel i like to feel
• 1:10:15
  like as responsible as possible uh for like his well-being and
• 1:10:19
  stuff yeah like like
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: like my partners mentioned that like
• 1:10:24
  We should maybe get him his own automatic litter box and some
• 1:10:29
  stuff like that.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't want to.
• 1:10:33
  Because one,
• 1:10:34
  I feel more responsible for him when I'm taking care of his
• 1:10:37
  litter box myself.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then two,
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_03: if there's any potential health issues that he's having,
• 1:10:44
  it might be easier for me to tell what's going on with him if
• 1:10:48
  there is something
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_03: wrong,
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_03: if I can see his litter box.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: in and doing it.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's absolutely true.
• 1:10:56
  We're going to take him in soon for a wellness checkup and talk
• 1:11:04
  to the vet about
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: getting him on some long-term anxiety meds.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_03: He might not necessarily need that,
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_03: but I still think it's a good idea to check just because he was a stray.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Most strays are, I think, generally...
• 1:11:22
  they generally struggle more with their anxiety um than uh than
• 1:11:28
  like indoor cats
• 1:11:30
  yeah i've definitely heard that well yeah um to your point just
• 1:11:34
  now uh please feel
• 1:11:36
  free to send me some some photos um as many as you'd like i'll
• 1:11:39
  make a gallery of
• 1:11:40
  them to put uh in the show notes because i i think as both of
• 1:11:43
  us are very much
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: aware the internet loves cat photos so
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, thank you.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Hazel, honestly, for coming on the show here.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you and I have been friends for a while now.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when I started doing interviews on the podcast,
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I had kind of an internal list in my head of like,
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:12:03
  some of my best Substack friends and obviously some of the best
• 1:12:07
  writers that I've
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_02: encountered on here,
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: the best poets.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And from the beginning, you were on that list.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm so happy that we finally got you on the show here.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this interview went even better than I could have anticipated.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for being here again.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me on here.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to cry or anything.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was truly a pleasure.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
• 1:12:29
  I'm really excited to hear what people think of this interview
• 1:12:32
  here because it was
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: incredibly insightful.
• 1:12:34
  And finishing off with the wonderful cat stories was a perfect
• 1:12:40
  way to end it.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks again.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you to Hazel Allen for that amazing interview.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Next up, Echoes from the Void with Voidy.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And now this is usually the part where I play a little jingle,
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: and I will,
• 1:12:54
  but I wanted to share where that song came from for people who
• 1:12:56
  maybe just started
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_02: listening to the show.
• 1:12:58
  The Voidy segment jingle was written and performed by Rocky's
• 1:13:01
  Thoughts here on Substack.
• 1:13:03
  She created it for me after we met on Substack in a funny
• 1:13:05
  little exchange where I
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: pretended to be the personification of the void.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little inside joke we have.
• 1:13:10
  So thanks again to Rocky for creating this essential and
• 1:13:13
  ongoing element of the
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_02: podcast and for helping bring Voidy to life as a character.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get back to the show.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can attest, Sir Voidy's the best.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't dare play it close to the vest.
• 1:13:26
  He's here to share,
• 1:13:28
  from here into there,
• 1:13:29
  the writers and words of which he does care.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Hey there, Voidy.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Bradley.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Excited for this week's questions.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's jump right into it.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Mina Howell asks, oh boy, is cereal soup?
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_02: She said, just kidding, I think that one's been asked before.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Ha ha, nope, can't take it back now.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Time to talk about the philosophical debate that is cereal as soup.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Voidy, no!
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Four hours later.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really what it's all about.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you, Voidy.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's four hours I'm never going to get back.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, Mina also had another question.
• 1:14:09
  She says,
• 1:14:10
  Okay,
• 1:14:10
  Voidy,
• 1:14:11
  say you have an ancient being like an eldritch terror in a
• 1:14:13
  story.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: How would you get rid of such a foe?
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Voidy, thoughts?
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's easy.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You don't.
• 1:14:21
  Listen,
• 1:14:21
  if it gets out into that plane of existence,
• 1:14:24
  everything is screwed.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Voidy, I actually agree with you here.
• 1:14:28
  A lot of the cases with these types of stories involving
• 1:14:31
  Eldritch Terrorismina is
• 1:14:33
  that you'll find there's a pattern where they are trying to
• 1:14:36
  prevent it being
• 1:14:37
  summoned or a rift being opened or something happening that
• 1:14:40
  will bring this thing
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: into our world.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because once it's here...
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's not really much you can do.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: yes,
• 1:14:47
  you can get really creative with it and find some sort of
• 1:14:51
  weakness maybe that it
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: has,
• 1:14:52
  but the whole concept of eldritch horrors like this is that
• 1:14:55
  they are unfathomable,
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: unstoppable,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: unknowable,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the only way to stop it is to prevent it, right?
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: That being said,
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: in my opinion,
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: if you really need to fight them on our home turf,
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I recommend using giant mechs.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a Pacific Rim reference.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love that movie.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Next up, Anton Anderson asks, what question should I ask you, Voidy?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: What question should I ask myself, my future self, my past self?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's a good one.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the thing.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to give you some really straight answers here.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_02: So listen close.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_02: You should ask me the question that keeps you up at night.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: The one that invades your mind at 3 a.m.,
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_02: leaving you breathless like you just woke up from a bad dream.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_02: You should ask your future self if they have any regrets,
• 1:15:36
  and you should ask your past self what you can do to heal from
• 1:15:39
  what you've been
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: through.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Damn, Voidy, wow, that's a really deep answer.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Haha, thanks, I have my moments!
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay, I have nothing to add.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Rachel Tribble asks,
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you write a reality inside a void,
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: does that push you deeper into the void,
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_02: or do you escape it?
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Voidy, I think I'll let you answer this one.
• 1:15:56
  A common misconception about The Void is that it's actually
• 1:15:58
  linear space.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Up is not up and down is not down.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's an MC Escher-esque playground where directions are suggestions,
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_02: and space is whatever you make of it.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so how would you escape it then, Voidy?
• 1:16:10
  Well,
• 1:16:10
  as the band Poets the Fall once said,
• 1:16:12
  you have to dive deep to reach the surface.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, Voidy bringing his A-game this week.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the answers, Voidy.
• 1:16:19
  We'll be back with our final segment of the podcast right after
• 1:16:22
  this short message.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Arnold, what's wrong?
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, I need to find a book now.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, have you tried checking out the Bookstack catalog?
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_02: The Bookstack catalog.
• 1:16:35
  It's a directory where you can find new stories,
• 1:16:37
  new authors,
• 1:16:37
  and new worlds.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was created by this week's guest, Hazel Allen.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, what are you talking about?
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I thought Hazel was a poet.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_02: They are, but they also run the Bookstack catalog.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, how is that possible?
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's not enough time!
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I hear that.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how they do it, but they do.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's probably blood magic or something.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't bother to ask.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm going to check out the Bookstack catalog.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now!
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, great.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and don't forget to subscribe to Hazel, and he's gone.
• 1:17:08
  I wonder if he knows it's a publication on Substack,
• 1:17:11
  not a physical location.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Huh.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, there's a link in the show notes.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get back to the show.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And for next week on Substack,
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to say that I'm going to be out of town again,
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: but I have a very good reason.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm taking an honest-to-God vacation for the first time in years.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:17:28
  I'm flying to another state to see one of my favorite artists
• 1:17:31
  in a venue that I've
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: always wanted to visit for most of my adult life,
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: so we are checking off the old bucket list.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I must appease the algorithm while I'm gone,
• 1:17:40
  so I won't be skipping the podcast next week like I did when I
• 1:17:43
  was on my business
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: trip recently.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Instead,
• 1:17:46
  I'll be posting what will most likely be a shorter episode that
• 1:17:49
  will be titled
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Episode 31.5,
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Clinchport Takeover.
• 1:17:53
  It's going to be a recorded discussion between me and my best
• 1:17:56
  friend of over 20
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: years,
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: James Nethery,
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: who was also the first ever guest on the Saved His Draft podcast.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to be in person for the first time in a while,
• 1:18:04
  so we'll sit down to talk about the animated horror comedy
• 1:18:07
  series we're working on
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_02: called The Chronicles of Clenchport,
• 1:18:09
  and we'll provide some updates on the upcoming narrative
• 1:18:12
  podcast set in the same
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: world,
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_02: which will be titled The Many Worlds of Clenchport.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_02: We'll also most likely be having some drinks while we record as well,
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_02: so expect some fun and laughs,
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: and probably more than a few embarrassing stories about me along the way,
• 1:18:25
  because you can't be friends with someone for 20 years without
• 1:18:27
  going through some
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_02: wild stuff.
• 1:18:28
  So trust me,
• 1:18:29
  even though it won't be a full episode,
• 1:18:30
  it'll still be a good one.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: The week after next, we'll be back to our normal schedule for episode 32.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: In the meantime,
• 1:18:36
  let me know if you like this new structure with the segues
• 1:18:39
  between each segment,
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_02: and if you hate it,
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: then that's okay too.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'll also try to schedule a few new posts while I'm out,
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: so keep an eye on the writer's journey,
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_02: and stay tuned for vacation photos,
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_02: because I'm sure I'll take more than a few.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it for this week, my friends.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you, as always, for showing up and listening to these episodes.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know I love making this show,
• 1:18:58
  and I just want you to know that I love being able to have real
• 1:19:01
  and honest
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_02: conversations about creativity with guests like Hazel this week,
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_02: and it just means the world to me that you enjoy it as well.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wanted to say I love what I do.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love the show.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I love this community.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And your support keeps me going as always.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: So from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, we've reached the end of another episode.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is Bradley Ramsey, signing off.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_02: The show has reached its end.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now comes the editing before Bradley hits send.
• 1:19:47
  You know,
• 1:19:47
  I've gotten pretty good at editing audio since this show
• 1:19:49
  started.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_02: To record is human.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: To edit, divine.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_02: One day that 20,000 downloads milestone will be mine.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!