Latest / The Leader Mentality / How To Motivate Employees With Clear Accountability

Transcript

How To Motivate Employees With Clear Accountability · The Leader Mentality

0:20
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens and Nick DiStefano.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: He is back.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: We learned last week that Nick DiStefano, not only is he a great like leader of people and training on leadership, but now he's into lecturing at Coastal Carolina.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: And then I also learned that lecturing doesn't mean you're just standing there being like you didn't tie your chief.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Right now I'm doing the culture of business and business.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Culture of b oh, I like that.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: The culture of business.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's it's it's technically the co the course title is the gl Intro to the Global Culture of Business.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Global.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We're really talking about all things business.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: How how do we operate a business?
1:03
SPEAKER_00: They're actually creating for me in the course for themselves, not for me.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: It's part of it, but they're creating their own business plans around their own venture that they want to run or a fake venture, a fake venture, based on a real problem.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: But they have to show me what their full business plan looks like.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Everything from problem to solution to target market, finances, all of it.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: It's fascinating.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I I love college students because I was a college student.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: I know how we think sometimes back then.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, if you asked me now to do that project, and now I'm a man, I've been in this for a long time.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: You asked me how to do that project, I'd so gleefully do that project.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: It would just be so fun for me.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Back then, you know how I decided what company I was gonna do?
1:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, who do I know that knows a lot about this topic?
1:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, like and so we did this back in college.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: We had one of these things, and the teacher said, What do you want to do?
1:53
SPEAKER_02: And I'm in a little group of four, and the one guy says, My dad's like an exec over at Ryder Trucks, you know, Ryder?
1:59
SPEAKER_02: And so we're like, Oh, of course we're gonna do rider then.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do trucks.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: And then we started realizing like midway into it, we're like, this is what we're gonna be talking about trucks for a whole semester.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be boring.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no offense to no offense to rider.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: Rider, lovely company, they've done a great job, but like it wasn't like we we could have done anything, man.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: We could have talked about sports, we could have talked, and we we went very corporate.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: But did your professor, your lecturer, your faculty member, did they set it up where they just said, okay, go and do this?
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Or what I'm trying to do, and I say I'm not a lecturer, we're trying to make it engaging.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: We're breaking down, let's just spend a whole class section talking about problems.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Like what defines an actual problem?
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Like what's the problem that Carolina Bayes solves?
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, guys.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, so like what is the problem that this business why is that a problem?
2:43
SPEAKER_00: What's actually the problem there?
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, why why is it a problem?
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, what problem does DoorDash solve?
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Understand.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, so when we think about that, it gets some.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: No, I like that because I mean at the end of the day, well, that there's bigger questions.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: And the the the topic of this show today is not this, so we don't want to go too far off on it.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go down the rabbit hole.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is and this is what we do when we're off the air, you know, we talk about things, but but like legitimately, uh without getting too far down that line, I do believe that when it comes to college students, and I say, Who wants to be a business owner one time one day?
3:13
SPEAKER_02: And like half the room raises their hands and I go, Well, what do you want to do?
3:16
SPEAKER_02: And they start throwing in very selfish goals sometimes.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love this, so I want to do that.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And and that's cool, you have to have passion.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, how are you gonna be different than the other five million companies that do that thing?
3:26
SPEAKER_02: And so I love that we're talking about you know, how do you solve a problem or solve it better than the next person?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: You know what's what's interesting too, and it ties to what we're gonna talk about today, is that part of what they have to work on, and it's the part that oftentimes they don't think about is I need them to also put together what does their human resources plan look like?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: How many people do you need to run this business with jail getting supplies?
3:50
SPEAKER_00: And what happens when someone doesn't do their job?
3:52
SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do about it?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And so I mean, that's exactly what we're gonna talk about today is like what do people do?
4:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm curious in the last week if you figured out how many warnings you're gonna give me before you fire me off the shoe.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
4:07
SPEAKER_02: Like Nick, I told you if we talked about motivation one more time.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, well, let me say, I I will kind of just to kind of before we save way from that, um, I know that as a a student, it's it's very cool and very special to be able to experience that.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: You start to feel like you're part of a real world.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: So hats off to Coastal Carolina for really getting it and trying to give them some real world experience.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: But the other thing I'll say is is one thing that we tend to do when we're doing that is we don't talk enough about how to scale up.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And so, do I want to be just the business owner who just works on everything my whole life, or do I want to grow to the next level?
4:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, to grow to the next level, I have to have people around me who are trained and motivated and learning, and boom, here we are.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: We're right back at the topic of the show.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: How do we do that?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Now, before we get into that, are you a cool, are you a cool lecturer?
4:53
SPEAKER_02: Are you like a cool lecturer?
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Are you like I've kind of just students?
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I gotta just be myself more than anything.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I'm cool.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: I I want to be understanding, but I'm not gonna give all the I'm not gonna give them all the warnings.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: If you don't do what you're supposed to do, you don't get the grade, you know.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, yeah.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm sure some of them don't think that's real cool when they ask me if they can still turn their thing in two weeks late.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, nope, sorry, you can't.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: It's probably uncool.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think it's pretty approachable and understanding for the most part.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know what the how they would define cool, right?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Or if I'm just more whatever they would say.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean when I say cool, I mean your definition of cool.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: Like pretty cool.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, you always have the people like, I'm a cool dad, I'm a cool dad.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, all right, cool.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I think I I'm I'm understand.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Listen, you asked me before I went off air, like, what do they call you?
5:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, they call me anything from Mr.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Nick to Professor D to Professor D to find.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Just call me Nick, y'all.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm just a guy.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you, every professor different, though.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: I had uh this is actually a professor, but when I was in school, I had a teacher.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh he was like a drill sergeant on the RTC.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: And he goes, I don't have any friends, and I don't want any friends.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: That's when we started the we're like, well, okay.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess uh he doesn't need friends.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: He certainly doesn't need to be nice to us.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: We know where we stand, sir.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, sorry, yes, sir.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And as I'm told.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, hey, listen, let's dive in.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, for those of you who listened last week, this is part two of our show, and we're talking about how to motivate and direct employees in a way that'll help them and the company grow.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: And the way this got started is we talked a little bit about the fact that I don't care um who you are out there, you've run into a point where you had some adversity within your business where somebody was veering golf course and and you find yourself sometimes a little helpless.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do I get this back in order?
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we were talking about how are we actually motivating these employees?
6:47
SPEAKER_02: And I and I think we figured out some of it was you gotta hire the right kind of people, you gotta put them in the right kind of roles.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: And so now we get down to uh some real world tips for everybody.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: So let's let's let's paint the picture.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: You have an employee, you brought them in, um, maybe they they made the same mistake three times in a row.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: All right.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: What is the way to get through to some of these people if you're saying the same thing over and over and over again?
7:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, short of saying, hey, look, you know, we gave you three warnings, you're out of here.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Where do you go?
7:21
SPEAKER_00: What what are your tips?
7:22
SPEAKER_00: That's such uh a difficult question to answer, honestly.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I'm used to you asking me a question, I'm like, do this thing.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's the answer.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm not gonna give you the answer that's like, you know, it depends.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Depends are adult diapers.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Talk about it depends because everyone's situation is different, obviously.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: But but the reason I say it's difficult is because I truly think that the accountability conversations are one of the hardest part of of any manager or leader's job.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Just ha having them in general.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: But the sooner you have the mindset that like I know this isn't gonna be easy, and the more like the more you have to do it, the better you're gonna get at it.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, like anything else that we do in life, you know, the more we practice it, the better.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: But I I would also challenge anyone that if you know it's gonna be difficult, don't just wing it, don't just walk in there and be like, Well, I know we need to talk about this thing and you haven't done it, and you know, prepare for it.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Write down some of the things you want to say.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Take a second to, you know, like this is why I'm having this conversation with you.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: I I often I would say the best way to do it is to really, if you're gonna prepare for it, you need to start with intent.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: What's the reason we're having this conversation?
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Why does this matter?
8:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, my intent here, you know, Rob, we've talked about this a couple of times.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: I need you to know that I'm coming into this because I want you to be successful and I want us to be successful together.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: So that's why we're having this conversation.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: And starting with that oftentimes can soften the blow a little bit, and then at the same time get them to realize, like, wait, okay, I may not remember this, but this guy hired me because he trusted me, and then maybe I realize, okay, I actually haven't been doing my job.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, so so t here's my thoughts on this, and um I appreciate what you're saying, I totally agree.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think that there's another part of it, which is um starting off number one, early.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: I I feel like too often we make the mistake as a manager, and I've been there, where I make a move and I'm like, I wish I would have done that earlier.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: Because if I had done it earlier, they would have a chance to fix themselves.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And instead, I just let it go because I was trying to be nice.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: I was trying to be compassionate.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: I think part of good leadership is if you are having a struggle with that conversation, it means you have compassion.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: Congratulations if you have compassion, it means you have a chance to be a very good leader if you're not already one.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: But the second thing I would say about that is that there's that time where you're letting somebody go, and and maybe they're like completely broadsided by it, and you're like, well, is that their fault because they have very little insight, or did I take a part in that because I did not actually let them know that?
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's a massive piece of it, is you have to have the extreme ownership as a manager and a leader.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: It is your responsibility, even if you think you have done a good job of telling them, I would challenge you to ask yourself again, what could I have said differently?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: How could I have been more clear?
10:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think if you come into it and say, look, I probably could have done a better job of making sure you knew how I really felt about this.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hey, could you like could you try and improve your report the next time you do it?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool, I'll try and improve it.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: But if if that's what you said, but you really knew like this report is extremely important, and if he doesn't improve it, it's going to frustrate me because it's going out to all these other people.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: And you didn't say that to me, then I need you as my manager to own that like I didn't really know what you actually needed me to do.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think managers want to, we don't want to do that.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: We're like, I can't admit that like I did something wrong here, but like that's part of it.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, it it most certainly is.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: It always is.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: There's some level of 50%, 50%, 20, 80, 40.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: There's something you could have done.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm I'm going to take a quick break to say exactly this.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: I think that last time we talked about, you know, the management, the villainization of managers versus the staff, and um, and what a leader looks like versus a manager.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And what I was saying is, you know, leaders should be throughout.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that this is what it looks like.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna use your same exact example.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: I think that a manager might say something like, Hey, your reports just don't look very good.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: They need to get better.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: That's a good management type of a thing that's not a great leader.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: That's a manager who's not a great leader.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: A great leader says, Hey, let's get together together.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: I want to show you what I'm looking for.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Here's things that you could do.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Is there any reason we can't do that?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Now, now we're starting to get to it.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: It's much easier said than done, by the way, in the moment.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I would say anyone you know that is thinking I've tried having these conversations, I would tell you to go back and look at them before you have the next one and say, for sure, what did I actually say?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Because we can talk about it here, but the reality is if you haven't taken the time to prepare for it before you go in and have the conversation and almost rehearse some of the things you want to say in your head, you're gonna walk in there and you're gonna be especially again, you said it before, the foundation of this is you care about the employee, or you wouldn't be listening to this show and you wouldn't be thinking about how do I do a better job of this.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And so because you care, you oftentimes you know fear the conflict.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite books um is by Patrick Lancioni.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: It's the five dysfunctions of a team.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And one of the dysfunctions is the absence of trust and then also the fear of conflict.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: So if I'm so afraid of hurting this person or saying the wrong thing that I just sugarcoat it and I'm like, you know, we really need you to just do a better job of this report.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: That's a great point, man.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: You're going to miss the opportunity to actually grow the person.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And then what happens is you get frustrated that they don't improve it the next time they do it a week later, and then it happens again, and we're getting to the point where we say, I've given you four tries to do this better, but maybe I never actually looked at why are you not doing it better?
13:12
SPEAKER_00: How can I have done?
13:13
SPEAKER_02: So let me let me take a step back.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: I want to say the obvious, and I'm talking to you.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking to the viewers, I'm talking to the listener.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna get real quiet and all serious about it.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: You know why you don't want to say that thing to hurt the people?
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Because you're selfish.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: You're selfish, you don't like the way it makes you feel.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: That's an internal thing.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: You're not liking the way it makes you look, that's an internal thing.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: You're being selfish.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: I know, you know, we we want to kind of like sometimes, oh, I just care about people.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: I care about people, I'm sure you do.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: But there is a point where your your lack of saying something for the other person's growth is about your selfishness because you don't want to peer away, you don't want to feel away about yourself.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: And that's what leadership looks like.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: Leadership is sometimes with compassion saying the hard truth.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I'd like to think somebody's about to run across the road, hey, you're doing a great job.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: There's a car coming out, you're doing a great job.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, I don't want to hurt their feelings if they're running across the road.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Stop.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna jerk you back, you're about to get hit.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be uncomfortable.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: All right.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and look, if sometimes when you're having that conversation, to go back to what you said a minute ago, you're gonna have that pre-conversation and say, listen, the reason we're having this meeting today is I want to see you succeed.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: Period.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: And if you were about to run in front of a traffic and get hit by a car, I would yell at you and say, don't run into traffic, right?
14:28
SPEAKER_01: That's a bad idea.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: And and and you would get it at that point, but I'm gonna do the same thing right now.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell you, you're about to run into metaphorical traffic because if you get these dang reports wrong again and then you start, no, no, no, no, yeah, you know that if you get the reports wrong, you might as well just run into the road.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no doubt about it.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: No, but you know, I think what's interesting too to think about is when we have these conversations, how are we doing as managers and leaders at actually separating some of our own emotions from what we're experiencing?
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Right?
14:59
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to have emotions and to be frustrated, but if you let that frustration or that emotion dictate how you have the conversation or even how you view their behavior, oftentimes we don't know the reality, the whole picture of what's going on.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: We have, you know, there's a difference between the fact of what I've actually observed in terms of you gave me this report, but unless I sat there and watched you work on it for the entire time, I might look at it and go, You have no interest in improving from the last time you did this, Rob, and I'm telling myself this like story in my head of Rob doesn't care about this.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: I told him that this needed to be improved.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: We sat down and we worked on it.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And if I walk into this conversation going, This guy doesn't care about this, that's my emotions and my own stories in my head that I'm letting dictate how I'm gonna have this conversation instead of coming in curious and going, Hey, we talked about this.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I still care about you, but like what happened here?
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Help me understand.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, so now here's where, like, and again, I'm outside of the box right now.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I I agree completely, man.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: And and and we're gonna wrap, you know, if you've been listening to part one and now you listen to part two, it sounds like a whole lot of sympathetic, you know, oh man, you know, I've got to do better.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: And you do that.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: That's the leader.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: No, and I understand it's the leadership, but but the problem is, and once again, I'll say, you know, look, I manage people every day, and there are times where you're frustrated.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna say a truth that you may not want to hear.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Some people that are working at companies, and they may be your coworker, are mailing it in every single day.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: And I don't care what you think you're doing, they don't have the right mindset.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: We didn't hire the right person in the first place.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Who's whose fault is that?
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is certainly the person who hired them.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Somebody brought them in there, and they did it because maybe at the time they were stressed out because they needed to get a warm body in there.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they were worried that they're gonna have to shut the doors and they just have somebody to just man the front door for them.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: And I get it.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: And and I don't want that person to feel like, well, I really messed up, I brought in the wrong person.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying is quite the opposite of that.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying when you find out that that person's melted in, they do have to take a responsibility just as much as the manager.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: And so that's why we're having the conversation.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's like, as I'm going to that meeting, I think the fine balances on the one extreme we have they're in the wrong because they did something wrong and I don't like it.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And on the other extreme, it's like, I wonder what I did wrong to make them do that thing wrong.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Somewhere within that level in the middle, it's got to be the push and pull you talked about.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna push you when I gotta push you, I'm gonna pull you back when I have to pull you back.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: And now that's my job as a leader and hopefully as a manager as well.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: So, anyway, um you know the thing is that I think that the real difference of what we're talking about, and it's not a difference, it's just two perspectives of what we're trying to get to, is you're that you're that person and you're running a team, and you do have a tremendous amount of pressure on you, and you are focused on a lot of things.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: And here's what sometimes happens.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: It and it and I think it happens to the best of us, and again, I will, you know, I've oftentimes talked about leaders and managers, and leaders can be everybody.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Managers are one person, but there's also people that are doing their jobs, and Nick, they're doing them great.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're coming in every day, they're on time, banging out things, motivated, working their butts off.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those people can also look and go, Oh, I I I just don't like, you know, like I wish this person would do this.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: If they would do this, this thing would happen.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: And so as leaders, maybe they pull them aside.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not trying to go down that route, but we need people to do that too.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: That would make your life as a manager a whole lot easier if you knew that there were people that are gonna say, Hey, it's not just on Rob pick it up, actually manage these people.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: No, the best, but no, quite frankly, the best football teams, the best baseball teams have done this over time.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: What they do is they say, Hey, look, uh, you know, I'm a I'm a linebacker, you're a linebacker, you you gotta pick it up, dude.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Like together, yeah.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: There is a magic to that.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: And that's and that linebacker who does that kind of thing, who's not actually the the captain or whatever, he's the guy who I'm gonna say, Wow, that that would be a great manager.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: And this is how this is supposed to work.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: I think how it should work.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: You exhibit great leadership, you become our best leader, that's the manager, right?
19:06
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't happen.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't happen like that.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: You're the best performer, right?
19:10
SPEAKER_02: So let's put you in the manager job.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Wait, that doesn't make sense.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: You're a team crusher, but you can sure process all those numbers really well.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: So now you're in charge of all the other salespeople.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Good luck, everyone.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, and and herein, so so okay, so now we're gonna save way into probably like the home stretch of this.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: We've spoken a lot over a two-part show.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: We start off the show talking about a lot of stuff about what uh the mindset of a person who's trying to guide somebody would be.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So, whatever it may be that we're trying to do to get people motivated, it's gotta start with somebody themselves wanting to be motivated.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: And so you have talked a little bit with me over time about what a cuss uh what an employee is gonna look like when you're talking about their skill and their motivation level.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about this because this is gonna be a foundational element with how we start our helping somebody agree with.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's when we talk about the push and the pull, I think about do we either push someone to be more motivated, do we push them to be more skilled, do we pull skill out of them?
20:08
SPEAKER_00: What what is it?
20:09
SPEAKER_00: And it's it is oftentimes you get into a I like we call it the flow state, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Where you have the right level of motivation for the project and also the right level of skill and they come together, right?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: And so there's this lovely diagram, which I'll pull over here in a second for everyone to see, but it's just this idea that like sometimes we look at an employee and we think, oh, they're not motivated.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: But is it that they're not motivated because they have such a great skill that maybe we aren't giving them a challenging enough project?
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe we are not they're not in the right seat on the bus, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_00: We've hired a great employee and they have this skill level that's so high here, and we have no idea about it because we just think they're not motivated, but really they might just be bored or apathetic, and we need to push them and challenge them.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't want to show up and keep doing the same boring things.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: And others are you want me to pull it in?
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: This is your college professor in me now.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to share this.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm I'm glad to move out of the way a little bit and we can kind of look at it.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: You can kind of take a look at this.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Woohoo, here we go, right?
21:13
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes, right, we're talking about the people that have this high level of skill, but their motivation level is like way down here, right?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: So this is skill on this axis here.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: We got motivation here.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: And some people, maybe we need to challenge them.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: We need to get them here, we're gonna pull them over and give them something that's more challenging so they're motivated to use this high level of skill.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Other times you've got people that are super motivated, they want to be the best that they can be.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, I know you care about this job, you wanna be, you're invested in this organization and what we need to do.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: But like for us to get you where you need to be, we need to give you skills.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: We need to figure out how to what's what's the gap here.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: And it might not always be this drastic.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: It might be that you're like, like you're somewhere here, and we just need to slowly increase your skills.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: And and by the way This is Nick's chart, not Rob's.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I don't want to overtake it.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: But I think there's something like if and maybe take the pen, the the marker here, because there's this perfect thing, right?
22:12
SPEAKER_02: This is the flow state.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: So if somebody's really high, like over here, and maybe in this quadrant, if you broke this in the quadrants, you could say this is the person.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: Man, that's the person that we're really invested in very, very well right now.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: They're helping grow.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: They're in a best leadership spot, right?
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: And then you might have another person, where's the bad quadrant at?
22:31
SPEAKER_02: So we're saying low motivation, low skill.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: So this is the quadrant.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we don't want to be there.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: We don't want to be there.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: We maybe made a hiring challenge.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we're not training right, maybe a combination of both more likely.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's but it's it's truly about recognizing the potential in people.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, it's mapping your talent and figuring out where are your people in terms of the projects you have.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Do the projects align with the skills that they have and their motivation?
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes we just expect someone because they're in this job, they should just be grateful that they have a job.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: And the reality is maybe they're bored because we don't know what they're actually good at.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: And we're missing out on opportunities to give them more.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: So this is a really cool demonstration.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: I like it because it does give us some things to think of.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: But but how can a manager functionally use this in a way that would really help them in a sense of like we know we just laid out a couple of basics.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: We said, hey, if you're in this quadrant, you know, that's a great one.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: That's fantastic.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Let's not forget that person because they're probably not costing us a whole lot of effort.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, we want them to know that we appreciate them, value them.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Don't leave that person out.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: In fact, they're probably foundational to your company.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: We also know that this person was probably somebody who we may be investing too much effort in.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: So, what about these two quadrants?
23:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you somebody who's really high on skill, but you're showing low on motivation, and then you have the high on motivation but low on skill.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: What would you tell a manager who's got somebody in one of these two blocks?
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Short of like get their get them better.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've yeah, no, yep, just just make them a better more motivated, just just motivate them.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Just do the motivation.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Do it, just do it.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I the reality is I think again, it depends on each person, right?
24:12
SPEAKER_00: A little bit, but I would say in both of these scenarios, it comes down to recognizing where the person is, where you think they are, before you have the conversation.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about the like, do I need to guide them, do I need to challenge them?
24:25
SPEAKER_00: This area up here, we probably need to challenge them and we need to say, look, we recognize you have these skills.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: You haven't really been showing up, and you kind of have been phoning it in, but this is my take on it.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite questions is how do you see it?
24:39
SPEAKER_00: So I would say to you, Rob, you know, I think you're really great at this specific thing.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're fantastic at this.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: That's that's not how it would be, right?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: It would be something actually that you do, right?
24:50
SPEAKER_00: You're really good at you know, preparing our budget every month.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: And we really appreciate your ability to do that.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: However, I I think you might be capable of more.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, what how do you see it, right?
25:02
SPEAKER_02: Here's what here's what I would say, and and again, like I'm looking at your chart, I'm trying to see how I'd apply it, but I would apply it like this.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: I would say, that's the person that I do need to show a path.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: I want to show a path of a path of leadership and a path of potential opportunity based on utilizing that to lift everybody else up.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And if we don't, what's this person gonna do?
25:21
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna go and find somewhere else where they're gonna find their job.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna leave you.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna say, I can use my skills in somewhere else where I'm gonna be challenged.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: And then over here, now I think somewhere within this chart, there has to be aptitude.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Now, look, and I know you hear me say this a lot, and I know that there's a general belief that we can help everybody to get a little bit better and or a lot better than what they're where they're at.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: But we also have to have something where it's aptitude, and where does that balance out all this chart, if at all?
25:48
SPEAKER_00: So again, I think it's about how we hired them, yeah, and at least giving them a chance to show that they have that aptitude.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: So we can't just make the judgment as managers and leaders and say, well, you just don't have the capability to do this.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And if we do, I think you have the wrong mindset and you should reevaluate how you're managing.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: But if you give people opportunities and you say, Hey, I believe you can grow into this thing.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: This is the skill I need you to learn, and I'm gonna give you these tools to get there, right?
26:20
SPEAKER_00: If you're motivated enough, you're gonna take advantage of those tools.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, then or you, you know, I give you the tools and then you still fail at them, then maybe it is you, you know, we can't think, you don't have the ability to where we need you to be right now.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you still couldn't get there.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: I can't spend weeks on weeks on weeks on months on months trying to get this person up here, no matter how much they're motivated, how much they want to be here, if again the aptitude's not there and it's gonna take us too long to get there.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean they couldn't, but you have to decide how long do we do this before we say, you know what, this is we appreciate you, but maybe we need to figure out another job within the organization for you.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, or maybe we need to adjust our expectations.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: So to put a fine point on it, and and we got you know a couple of minutes left of the show, and so I really want to make sure that we do a proper ending to this.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: So the idea is as we wrap up part two of you know, motivating, guiding employees for success.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it includes discipline, sometimes it includes uh a hard talk, and but it starts at the basic end of the day of where are they on the spectrum.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: And what I would say to you is this somewhere within this, somebody's watching that right now, and they're saying, and it usually it's gonna be a person trending younger who may have a lot of motivation, but they're gonna say, Well, I don't have the skill set yet.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: You you know, how do I get that skill set?
27:42
SPEAKER_02: So that's where we're gonna have to eventually, maybe this will be a good topic for a future show.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: We want to talk about aptitude and training.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: How do we get this person trained up to that next level?
27:52
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but uh the the young person that's listening, I would say, don't wait for them to say, hey, how because some places aren't gonna aren't going to say, How do we get you this skill if you don't come and take the initiative and say, hey, Rob, I this is I'm really motivated, I want to learn how to do this, you know, this specific thing.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Then I'll go I'll go this far as as we kind of wrap up the show, and I guess we can push this off to the side now.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: But what I would say is as I wrap up this show, I would say my thoughts are if you're gonna be one of these or the other, I'd rather have the motivated person.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: Honestly.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: I can I can coach you, I can work around you, you're a team builder, you're a team lifter.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: And but also at the end of the day, sometimes it it may have just been that we have somebody who had all the great skill and the motivation.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Ironically, is hopefully easier to teach them the skill.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: But but it's that's our jobs as management to figure out, right?
28:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's uh it's the one of my favorite things to ask in some of our exercises that I do, whether it's with college students or other individuals, is is anybody able to be a leader?
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And what I often get pushed back is well, some people aren't willing to be a leader.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: And I say, that doesn't mean they're not able to be a leader.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: And we want it comes back to what we talked about, you know, in in part one.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Are people willing or able?
29:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's up to us as managers and leaders to figure that out.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, listen, this has been a fun two-part.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, we hope that you know you guys at home, at your work right now, if you're just listening while you're typing away or if you're working on a job site, hope you guys enjoyed it.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Just know that these formulas we're talking about, this isn't about accounting, this isn't about construction, this isn't about sports, this is about life.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it could be within a family unit.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you'll look at this stuff.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: So uh, but I think the biggest thing is that we can both agree on, even when we differ on some things, you know, lead with compassion.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Don't just think about yourself, think about others.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Don't just think about where you're at today, think about where you could be tomorrow and lift others up.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: So that's great leadership for me.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: That's what it's all about.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what the people listening to this are going to be able to do.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, hey, we will see you all next time.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: I do want to tell you, as we get into the next couple of weeks, go out, listen to things, think about things that you might want to hear us talk about on the show.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let us know.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times I'm out there, the best topics I get are from the community.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: They'll say, hey, you know, I'm having this thing go on, and that becomes a new topic.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Struggling with this.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's do that.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: How do I do that?
30:13
SPEAKER_02: So absolutely.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Send your messages in, look us up at the Leader Mentality on Facebook, Instagram, wherever you're at.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Go to the website, beleadermentality.com, and uh we'll look forward to hearing from you all next time.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: So Nick, thanks again for being on the show, my friend.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Rob.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: And we'll see you all next time on the Leader Mentality show with Rob Clemens and guest special host, something D.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Stefano.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for watching.