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Women and Student Debt · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I ever told your protection of I Heart Radio and
0:18
Speaker 1: today we're doing sort of a welcome back to school episode. Sure,
0:27
Speaker 1: yeah about student debt. So not the happiest look at
0:35
Speaker 1: at student debt or going back to school, but you know,
0:38
Speaker 1: we thought we would talk about it. And as part
0:41
Speaker 1: of this, I wanted to ask you because I went
0:44
Speaker 1: to Georgia Tech Georgia Technical Institute because I could pay
0:52
Speaker 1: for it because of Georgia has the Hope Scholarship, and
0:56
Speaker 1: so it was a very financial decision for me. And
1:01
Speaker 1: I have never had student debt, but I know that
1:06
Speaker 1: you have, Samantha, if you'd be willing to talk to
1:09
Speaker 1: us right out that so I'm interested that you did.
1:13
Speaker 1: Was your housing and such covered? I had to pay
1:16
Speaker 1: for the housing, which was about a thousand, eight hundred dollars,
1:21
Speaker 1: and I had to pay for books. But uh, I
1:25
Speaker 1: think I've talked about it before. I was very I
1:29
Speaker 1: saved a lot of money as a kid. Uh so
1:31
Speaker 1: I was able to pay for it out of my pocket. Yeah, okay, Yeah,
1:37
Speaker 1: so because I was able to get Hope as well,
1:39
Speaker 1: which is a local program in the in Georgia, and
1:42
Speaker 1: I know it's nationwide, but it's a program that is
1:46
Speaker 1: taken out of the Georgia Lottery or the lottery system
1:49
Speaker 1: UM for schools. And when I was getting in, and I
1:52
Speaker 1: I guess you are too, at that point, it was
1:55
Speaker 1: fairly new. UM. I think came out from my sister
1:58
Speaker 1: when she went to school. And it provides a scholarship
2:03
Speaker 1: tuition for any state schools UM and will do so
2:08
Speaker 1: for those with three point oh g p a s.
2:11
Speaker 1: And I think it's changed now to three point two. Yes,
2:14
Speaker 1: they changed it for specifically technical uh kinda pursues maybe
2:23
Speaker 1: maybe for everything, but I know for Georgia Tech they
2:25
Speaker 1: were like, oh god, it's so hard, let's give them
2:29
Speaker 1: a bigger a bigger rate of success. Yeah, okay, so
2:35
Speaker 1: it got it went the qualifications, it went higher, So
2:39
Speaker 1: if you don't hit three point two, you couldn't receive
2:42
Speaker 1: it because too many people were getting in. It was
2:43
Speaker 1: getting drained very very quickly, not surprisingly. But also we
2:47
Speaker 1: know that pre K and such has also been paid
2:51
Speaker 1: out by the lottery system as well, although it takes
2:54
Speaker 1: a lot to qualify to get into pre K for
2:58
Speaker 1: a lot of these children, and I had to take
3:00
Speaker 1: out student loans because I did not have money, uh
3:04
Speaker 1: for housing or transportation or for um books which yeah,
3:11
Speaker 1: hope scholarship covered tuition and about one book two books.
3:17
Speaker 1: And I had to try to have a job, and
3:21
Speaker 1: I did. I had a job, but it was really
3:23
Speaker 1: hard to do jobs in trying to do college at
3:25
Speaker 1: the same time. Maybe I'm not intelligent enough that I
3:28
Speaker 1: could keep up with both um, especially with a car payment,
3:32
Speaker 1: especially with so I from the age six, Like I've
3:34
Speaker 1: told the story that I've started working at the age
3:36
Speaker 1: of thirteen at a dairy queen um and it has
3:39
Speaker 1: been working, have been working since then because it's not
3:43
Speaker 1: something that has ever been important in my family. They
3:45
Speaker 1: love education, they value it, but it's not something that
3:48
Speaker 1: you have to have essentially, which is kind of funny
3:50
Speaker 1: because we did by the time our age group came around,
3:53
Speaker 1: Like you know, we had to because that's the minimal qualifications.
3:56
Speaker 1: UM way back when you didn't have to that was
3:59
Speaker 1: amazing if you had a call education. But in our generation,
4:03
Speaker 1: of course that's what we had to have, and trying
4:06
Speaker 1: to do that. If I could have gone to a
4:08
Speaker 1: local school, but I had been very miserable trying to
4:11
Speaker 1: go back and forth. I could have done, you know,
4:13
Speaker 1: all these things. So part of that was getting loans
4:16
Speaker 1: for living situations. By the time I got into my
4:19
Speaker 1: core curriculum, which is past the core curriculum into my major,
4:23
Speaker 1: which was social work, I had to do a practicum.
4:26
Speaker 1: And what that means is I literally spent thirty hours
4:28
Speaker 1: a week to your minimum of twenty hours a week
4:32
Speaker 1: two intern for free. I was told by the person
4:36
Speaker 1: who was my I guess supervisor or person who was
4:39
Speaker 1: giving me my grade that the minimum was not enough
4:44
Speaker 1: and I should be able to do more. I found
4:46
Speaker 1: out later she was a very rich girl who had
4:47
Speaker 1: a lot of money and didn't need to have another job,
4:51
Speaker 1: and she was going through a divorce, so it took
4:53
Speaker 1: it out on me fun times um. But that has
4:57
Speaker 1: nothing to do with any of this. But because of that,
4:59
Speaker 1: I had to take the loans or I could not
5:01
Speaker 1: do job in term practical and all of that. I
5:05
Speaker 1: went to de facts for a year, the most miserable
5:09
Speaker 1: year of my life. I quit abruptly because I was
5:12
Speaker 1: having panic attacks in the middle of driving um and
5:15
Speaker 1: not sleeping at all at having nightmares, and so therefore
5:19
Speaker 1: I quit. I went on unemployment for a little while,
5:22
Speaker 1: UH deferred on my loans and those times and then
5:26
Speaker 1: also another time I had to I got I got
5:30
Speaker 1: laid off from a job, I had to defer my
5:32
Speaker 1: loans that in that process my balance went from less
5:38
Speaker 1: than ten thousand to more than twenty five thousand because
5:42
Speaker 1: of the interests. So this is what I'm talking about,
5:45
Speaker 1: and this is a scam. I owe more in interest,
5:48
Speaker 1: three times more in interest than I do what I
5:51
Speaker 1: originally owed. UM, and I, even with a college degree
5:56
Speaker 1: I made, I started out very less than thirty thousand
5:59
Speaker 1: I got. I think later on. I worked for ten
6:01
Speaker 1: years and then again after I left to go to
6:04
Speaker 1: UH be a nanny, and I still made less than
6:08
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand with three different promotions. So that was
6:13
Speaker 1: kind of the field that I was on, and it
6:15
Speaker 1: was impossible to actually pay that off. So I would
6:19
Speaker 1: do the minimum, which does not pay anything but the interest.
6:22
Speaker 1: So the principle remains, and it keeps accruing that interest
6:25
Speaker 1: because all you're doing is paying off interest. And that's
6:28
Speaker 1: how I got stuck. And even to this day, I
6:30
Speaker 1: still have some debt left. UM and I'm watching this
6:34
Speaker 1: whole debt relief I'm paying a little more. I could
6:36
Speaker 1: pay a little more, but now I don't qualify for
6:39
Speaker 1: what we'll talk about in a minute, which is income
6:42
Speaker 1: um based repayment. Uh. And that I was able to
6:46
Speaker 1: pay the minimum amount, which is why I also I
6:48
Speaker 1: am still in debt. So that's my story. Yeah, and
6:54
Speaker 1: I hope you'll because we have a section at the
6:57
Speaker 1: end about mental tolle, I will talk Okay, perfect, I
7:03
Speaker 1: mean it makes me sad, but yes, I hope you
7:06
Speaker 1: will talk about it. I yeah, I was very fortunate
7:10
Speaker 1: that I haven't had this situation, but I have a
7:13
Speaker 1: lot of friends who have and just hearing them talk
7:19
Speaker 1: about the the stress, like everyday stress of it, the
7:24
Speaker 1: toll of it. Ah. And I've had friends cry when
7:30
Speaker 1: they paid off their debt, like just celebrate, we celebrate. Yeah,
7:36
Speaker 1: for sure, I will celebrate. M Yeah. Yeah. And I
7:40
Speaker 1: think we're not going to get into this too much
7:44
Speaker 1: in this episode. But one of the things that stuck
7:48
Speaker 1: out to me and doing this research was times have
7:54
Speaker 1: just changed. I feel like we're basing things on like
7:57
Speaker 1: the fifties and right now there's this promise of oh,
8:03
Speaker 1: if you go to college, you're gonna make money and
8:06
Speaker 1: you're gonna be fine. And it's not necessarily true. It's
8:09
Speaker 1: not necessarily true anymore, not at all. You're growing more
8:14
Speaker 1: debt for something that's not valuable anymore. Yeah, and it's
8:20
Speaker 1: it's the expense of getting that education has gone up
8:24
Speaker 1: when the salary associated with it has not gone up
8:29
Speaker 1: at all. So we're going to talk about that more. Um.
8:32
Speaker 1: And I did want to mention, uh And two thousand
8:36
Speaker 1: and ten, I was contacted by I come from a
8:39
Speaker 1: small town. I was contacted by our local newspaper writer
8:47
Speaker 1: when I was working at what was then how Stuff Works,
8:51
Speaker 1: essentially the same company I work for now. Um. And
8:55
Speaker 1: it was the recession, because two eight was the big recession.
9:00
Speaker 1: That's when I was in college and graduated. Uh. And
9:05
Speaker 1: he was like, tell tell the young folks how to
9:08
Speaker 1: get a job. And I just remember thinking, like, I can't.
9:14
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's changing, it's changing. I'm lucky
9:19
Speaker 1: and what happened to me is lucky, and not that
9:22
Speaker 1: I worked for it, but I was in a very
9:24
Speaker 1: fortunate position. I can't give you. It's a recession. It's bad, Like,
9:31
Speaker 1: don't come to me for that kind of advice because
9:35
Speaker 1: I don't have it right, I don't have it, um. Okay,
9:40
Speaker 1: So let's get into what we're talking about, and specifically
9:46
Speaker 1: some numbers because they are pretty sobering when it comes
9:50
Speaker 1: to student debt. So to start, one of five Americans
9:55
Speaker 1: has student debt. And from Investipia quote, student loaned at
10:00
Speaker 1: is what's owed to a lender that provides funding for
10:03
Speaker 1: higher education. This money is often primarily used to pay tuition,
10:08
Speaker 1: but also can be used for school supplies, basic necessities,
10:12
Speaker 1: and anything else that a borrower purchases during their academic career.
10:16
Speaker 1: Most students will be unable to pay for college without
10:20
Speaker 1: financial aid, even if they received funding from parents and
10:24
Speaker 1: or scholarships, due to how the price of higher education
10:28
Speaker 1: has escalated over time. And yeah, that's something like I
10:34
Speaker 1: remember filling out FAFSA and being such a huge deal
10:39
Speaker 1: and just hoping like, oh, I need I need this
10:42
Speaker 1: support from the government, and it's going to determine what
10:46
Speaker 1: school I go to or if I go to school
10:48
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, I got into all. And that was
10:51
Speaker 1: the other part to that is I was doing I
10:53
Speaker 1: was working after school at a daycare, and then I
10:56
Speaker 1: was doing clubs that gave me like a file the
11:00
Speaker 1: dollar check and in order to go to college. It's like, great,
11:02
Speaker 1: that's going to be the first month's rent or whatever
11:04
Speaker 1: what not, because it was so significant, and yeah, like
11:08
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. Actually I do know, like
11:11
Speaker 1: things that accumulate in those costs, including we're talking about
11:15
Speaker 1: ward and but food and parking is some of the
11:19
Speaker 1: most significant costs in there. And I know for Georgia
11:24
Speaker 1: State because my niece just graduated, they would not allow
11:28
Speaker 1: freshman's to have cars there, which I was like, Okay,
11:31
Speaker 1: I get it to a certain extent, but she's in Atlanta.
11:33
Speaker 1: Like at least when I was in Athens, the community
11:37
Speaker 1: was short enough that I could walk pretty easily, but
11:39
Speaker 1: Atlanta asked, it's not very walkable, as we have talked
11:42
Speaker 1: about before. Yeah, that parking, that parking fee was serious,
11:47
Speaker 1: and they're just some things you look back on and
11:49
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, I was really making kind of a
11:52
Speaker 1: devil's deal with Yeah, I guess I'll eat this very
11:56
Speaker 1: low gallery frozen meal that I can get on my
12:00
Speaker 1: meal plan and that's my one meal for the day, um,
12:05
Speaker 1: which is taking that zip luck back to the dorms
12:07
Speaker 1: to the food hall. Yes, So here's a quote we
12:26
Speaker 1: wanted to include from the Institution for Women's Policy Research.
12:30
Speaker 1: Following the promise of economic mobility, Americans turn to loans
12:34
Speaker 1: to finance the skyrocketing cost of higher education. By twenty nineteen,
12:39
Speaker 1: the average price tag was twenty three thousand, fifty one
12:42
Speaker 1: dollars for public four year institutions and forty nine thousand,
12:46
Speaker 1: nine one dollars for private four year institutions, up from
12:51
Speaker 1: ten thousand, fifty one dollars and twenty four thousand, thirty
12:55
Speaker 1: six dollars, respectively in and this is all in twenty
13:01
Speaker 1: twenty two dollars. Between two thousand and twenty eighteen, the
13:06
Speaker 1: median student debt for white borrowers doubled but quadrupled for
13:10
Speaker 1: black borrowers. Black women have the highest average student loan
13:14
Speaker 1: debt at thirty seven thousand, five hundred and fifty eight dollars,
13:17
Speaker 1: followed by black men at thirty five thousand, six hundred
13:21
Speaker 1: sixty five dollars. White women OH about thirty one thousand,
13:25
Speaker 1: three hundred forty six dollars on average, and white men
13:28
Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand, eight hundred and sixty two dollars. Hispanic
13:32
Speaker 1: slash Latino women OH twenty seven thousand, twenty nine dollars
13:36
Speaker 1: on average, slightly less than Hispanic Latino men at twenty
13:40
Speaker 1: seven thousand, four hundred and fifty two dollars. So those
13:44
Speaker 1: are some pretty stark numbers. UM. And here's another one.
13:49
Speaker 1: Women hold about two thirds of America's one point six
13:53
Speaker 1: trillion student loan debt. UH. This is more than the
13:58
Speaker 1: gross domestic product pretty much every country, and it's the
14:03
Speaker 1: second highest source of US household debts after housing itself.
14:08
Speaker 1: For women, that equals out to about eight hundred and
14:12
Speaker 1: thirty three billion dollars as of six UM. Some other
14:17
Speaker 1: numbers are higher in the mid like nine hundred billion
14:21
Speaker 1: dollar range, So it's high, it's high. Whatever you whatever
14:25
Speaker 1: number you find, that is huge, and it disproportionately hits
14:30
Speaker 1: women of color and especially Black women. As of black
14:35
Speaker 1: women held the highest average student loan debt. And we
14:40
Speaker 1: have a couple of quotes about that quote. Black women
14:44
Speaker 1: hold the highest amount of student loan debt of any
14:46
Speaker 1: racial or gender group. A a u W reports that
14:50
Speaker 1: one year after graduation, black women oh ten thousand dollars
14:54
Speaker 1: more than any other women borrowers. And then further, due
15:00
Speaker 1: to systemic racial discrimination, black families have far less wealth
15:04
Speaker 1: to draw from for college tuition. This means black students
15:08
Speaker 1: must borrow more, have increased difficulties paying back those debts,
15:13
Speaker 1: and hold loan debts that take up a larger proportion
15:16
Speaker 1: of their financial resources. And from a CNBC report, the
15:22
Speaker 1: Brookings Institute estimates that on average, black college graduates OH
15:26
Speaker 1: fifty two thousand, seven twenty six dollars in student debt,
15:30
Speaker 1: while white college grads oh closer to twenty eight thousand
15:34
Speaker 1: and six dollars. And the Urban Institute reports that among
15:38
Speaker 1: borrowers between the ages of twenty five and fifty five
15:41
Speaker 1: who took on college debt to finance their own undergraduate degree,
15:45
Speaker 1: black borrowers oh thirty two thousand, forty seven dollars on average,
15:49
Speaker 1: while white and Hispanic borrowers are roughly eighteen thousand, six
15:54
Speaker 1: hundred eighty five dollars and fifteen thousand, eight hundred and
15:57
Speaker 1: fifty three dollars, respectively. So that's quite a big difference.
16:02
Speaker 1: Is quite a big difference from the Washington Former quote.
16:06
Speaker 1: According to the Institute on Assets and Social Policy, after
16:10
Speaker 1: twenty years in repayment, the typical black borrowers still owes
16:15
Speaker 1: of their cumulative borrowing total, while similarly situated white burrowers
16:20
Speaker 1: have reduced their debt by with nearly half of white
16:25
Speaker 1: borrowers holding no student debt at all. And from the
16:29
Speaker 1: desk of Congresswoman Ayana Pressley quote, the student debt crisis
16:35
Speaker 1: is one that uniquely affects Black women, who are the
16:38
Speaker 1: most educated and indebted democraphic group in our country. Generations
16:43
Speaker 1: of policy violence and discriminatory policies like redlining and predatory
16:48
Speaker 1: lending have denied our families the opportunity to build wealth
16:53
Speaker 1: and have forced us to take on crushing amounts of
16:55
Speaker 1: debt that have severely limited our economic futures. Black women
17:00
Speaker 1: oh twenty two percent more than the average student debtload
17:04
Speaker 1: of white women, and are the most systematically underpaid, earning
17:09
Speaker 1: just sixty four cents to every dollar earned by white men.
17:13
Speaker 1: The disparate impact of the pandemic has only exacerbated these inequities,
17:19
Speaker 1: which yes, we have talked about. We cannot separate the
17:24
Speaker 1: gender wage gap and then all the intersectionalities within that.
17:28
Speaker 1: In this conversation from American Progress dot org, students attending
17:33
Speaker 1: private for profit colleges how the worst default rates across
17:37
Speaker 1: all institution types one third of all borrowers defaulted within
17:41
Speaker 1: six years of starting at a private for profit institution,
17:45
Speaker 1: including forty two percent of Black or African American borrowers.
17:49
Speaker 1: While the default rates for private for profit institutions are alarming,
17:54
Speaker 1: there are also concerning gaps by race at public and
17:58
Speaker 1: private nonprofit four year inst tuitions. At these schools, black
18:02
Speaker 1: are African American borrowers at a default rate nearly four
18:06
Speaker 1: times greater than white borrowers and more than double that
18:11
Speaker 1: of Hispanic or Latino borrowers. And more women are completing
18:16
Speaker 1: degrees as compared to men, and they are more likely
18:20
Speaker 1: to pursue higher education as compared to men right now,
18:24
Speaker 1: but that all comes out of cost. According to the
18:28
Speaker 1: American Association of University Women the a a u W,
18:32
Speaker 1: which we've mentioned earlier, the average American woman holds about
18:35
Speaker 1: thirty one thousand, two hundred and seventy six dollars in
18:39
Speaker 1: student debt. This translates to an average monthly bill of
18:43
Speaker 1: three hundred and seven dollars beginning the month after graduation.
18:48
Speaker 1: At the same time, a woman exiting college with a
18:52
Speaker 1: bachelor's degree, they are nuring a job force where their
18:56
Speaker 1: average salaries around thirty five thousand, three thirty eight dollars,
19:01
Speaker 1: so already this is not good um, which is about
19:06
Speaker 1: of what men are expected to earn. By the way,
19:09
Speaker 1: they also found that forty one percent of female undergraduates
19:13
Speaker 1: took on debt in the latest figures available, compared to
19:19
Speaker 1: thirty five percent of male undergraduates upon completion of a
19:23
Speaker 1: bachelor's degree. Women's average student debt is about two thousand,
19:26
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars greater than men's, and Black women take
19:29
Speaker 1: on more student debt on average than do members of
19:32
Speaker 1: any other group, So obviously this is a financial burden
19:39
Speaker 1: and is on top of housing, car payments, children um
19:43
Speaker 1: if if children are in the mix, and after women graduate,
19:47
Speaker 1: they face a gender wage gap, one that is worse
19:52
Speaker 1: for women of color and lgbt Q plus folks, and this,
19:56
Speaker 1: among other things, means it will take them at least
20:01
Speaker 1: two years more to pay their student debt compared to men.
20:06
Speaker 1: And all of this compounds into women not having as
20:10
Speaker 1: much to go into retirement or savings, which is a
20:14
Speaker 1: huge deal. And as we've discussed during our many episodes
20:19
Speaker 1: on how the pandemic hit women harder and women of
20:23
Speaker 1: color harder in the early months of the pandemic, Women
20:26
Speaker 1: accounted for almost sixty of unemployment claims, often because of
20:30
Speaker 1: the types of professions they were in and or having
20:34
Speaker 1: to stay home to school their children. And on top
20:38
Speaker 1: of that, while more women are attending college than ever before,
20:42
Speaker 1: the cost has risen exponentially, doubling over the past generation.
20:46
Speaker 1: And this while incomes have remained stagnant. Uh and the
20:52
Speaker 1: expectations of women around cleaning, childering, and basic domesticity are
20:57
Speaker 1: still far higher than what they are from men and
21:00
Speaker 1: who That's not the only layer to the conversation, according
21:04
Speaker 1: to ernest dot com. While this might not be the
21:07
Speaker 1: case in every household, a seventeen survey by t ro
21:10
Speaker 1: Price showed that the parents of all boys were saving
21:14
Speaker 1: more and willing to spend more on their kids college
21:18
Speaker 1: education than parents of all girls. Of parents with only
21:23
Speaker 1: boys has started to save money for their college education
21:26
Speaker 1: compared with thirty nine of parents who had only girls
21:32
Speaker 1: and from Investipedia quote. In fact, female bars typically require
21:38
Speaker 1: more education to earn a wage equal to less educated men.
21:42
Speaker 1: To exceed the lifetime earnings of a male graduate with
21:46
Speaker 1: just an associate degree, a woman may need to earn
21:49
Speaker 1: at least a master's degree. Those who receive a graduate
21:54
Speaker 1: education to counter at pay gaps will ultimately take on
21:57
Speaker 1: even more debt and pay more or in the long run.
22:02
Speaker 1: And further, according to the Center for Responsible Lending, approximately
22:06
Speaker 1: tw of all college students in twent eighteen were parents
22:11
Speaker 1: with dependent children, more than of parents were single mothers
22:18
Speaker 1: who oh gosh. And further, of all enrolled college students
22:24
Speaker 1: work while studying right uh and honestly, specific needs or
22:30
Speaker 1: higher education for a lot of the fields that we
22:34
Speaker 1: see women, especially black women, marginalist people go into more
22:38
Speaker 1: oftentimes pay less, but require a higher degree UM. Like
22:43
Speaker 1: the agency that I worked with, masters often was required,
22:46
Speaker 1: but the cap of the salaries fifty thousand for a
22:50
Speaker 1: master's um. And that's maybe if you've been in there
22:53
Speaker 1: for a while and you've got some incentives like being
22:56
Speaker 1: a part of the military or something previously, and the
22:58
Speaker 1: fact that it takes that level to get to there,
23:01
Speaker 1: like I was saying, in that same agency, I started
23:04
Speaker 1: off with seven with a college with a requirement for
23:06
Speaker 1: a college degree. You move up and it went up
23:09
Speaker 1: to twenty nine to thirty three to thirty six, so
23:13
Speaker 1: it's phenomenally less. And if you were trying to actually
23:16
Speaker 1: get a degree at the same time, it was almost
23:19
Speaker 1: impossible because it would take you six years with lots
23:22
Speaker 1: of debt because most likely you're gonna do it online.
23:24
Speaker 1: And for a long time, it was only privatized for
23:27
Speaker 1: profit colleges that were offering those type of degrees UM,
23:31
Speaker 1: So therefore you were taking advantage of extremely because that's
23:34
Speaker 1: the only ones that really offered to people who have
23:36
Speaker 1: full time job, of family, any of those things. UM
23:39
Speaker 1: and hopefully you have access to the computer, because if
23:41
Speaker 1: you don't, that's a whole different conversation. In my lifetime,
23:45
Speaker 1: when I was trying to figure out if I wanted
23:46
Speaker 1: to go back for my master's because I wanted to
23:50
Speaker 1: go into a deeper field. But at the same time,
23:52
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't about the money. I knew I
23:54
Speaker 1: would have to go into even more debt because I
23:56
Speaker 1: would not qualify for the same UH scholars ships that
24:00
Speaker 1: you as you do UM. And then master's program costs
24:03
Speaker 1: about twice or three times to four times as the
24:06
Speaker 1: undergraduate programs do, so it's significantly more. At the same time,
24:10
Speaker 1: trying to do homework and as I talked about in
24:13
Speaker 1: social work, and I'm sure many other films. You have
24:15
Speaker 1: to do a practicum or an internship that takes up
24:18
Speaker 1: twenty hours of your week as well. There's a lot
24:20
Speaker 1: it is. It is such a lot, and I it
24:26
Speaker 1: kind of sounds trite, but I'm just reminded of when
24:28
Speaker 1: we played Life together, Samantha, the game of Life, and
24:33
Speaker 1: so much of it felt like a pay to play,
24:35
Speaker 1: and this that this feels like that to me, Like
24:38
Speaker 1: you have to pay, you have to go into debt. Two,
24:43
Speaker 1: get this degree that will supposedly get you the job,
24:46
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really get you the job anymore like
24:49
Speaker 1: it might, but it's not a guarantee at all. And yeah,
24:54
Speaker 1: so if you aren't able to find a well paying
24:58
Speaker 1: job after graduating, as many are not, and you can't
25:02
Speaker 1: pay your student loans, a person can be labeled as
25:05
Speaker 1: such a linquent, which can in turn lead to their
25:09
Speaker 1: loans defaulting, which in turn can put a major dint
25:13
Speaker 1: in their credit report, which I still think is nonsense,
25:16
Speaker 1: but that's a future episode. Whether or not it's nonsense,
25:21
Speaker 1: it can be a huge deal and it can affect
25:24
Speaker 1: a lot of what you want to buy or accomplish.
25:28
Speaker 1: Um and the type of college matters too. Here's another
25:32
Speaker 1: quote from Investipedia. Although all of these amounts are high,
25:36
Speaker 1: the difference between the cost of public for your institutions
25:39
Speaker 1: and for profit for your ones is stark. They may
25:42
Speaker 1: not enroll as many students as public universities, but for
25:46
Speaker 1: profit institutions disproportionately enroll women, particularly Black women and ors
25:50
Speaker 1: single mothers. And they also report from one to four
25:55
Speaker 1: years falling graduation, women have paid off thirty one percent
25:59
Speaker 1: of their out standing debt, compared to the thirty eight
26:02
Speaker 1: percent that men paid off. Black and Hispanic women were
26:06
Speaker 1: significantly further behind during the same time period, at twelve
26:09
Speaker 1: percent to eighteen percent, respectively. Additionally, the A A u
26:14
Speaker 1: W found that fifty seven percent of Black female borrowers
26:18
Speaker 1: and two thousand and eight to two thousand twelve faced
26:21
Speaker 1: financial difficulties while paying down their debt, compared to forty
26:26
Speaker 1: and for Hispanic, White, and Asian women respectively. And when
26:33
Speaker 1: it comes to the l G B, t Q plus community,
26:36
Speaker 1: numbers are lacking, but one study from the Williams Institute
26:41
Speaker 1: out of u c. L A School of Law found
26:43
Speaker 1: that fifty one percent of trans adults have taken out
26:47
Speaker 1: federal educational loans in comparison to thirty five point nine
26:50
Speaker 1: percent of l b q CIS gendered women and twenty
26:54
Speaker 1: seven point nine percent of g b q CIS gendered men.
26:59
Speaker 1: On top of that, trans people are more likely to
27:01
Speaker 1: go through credit rejection. People who identify as LGBTQ plus
27:07
Speaker 1: oh an average sixteen thousand dollars more as compared to
27:11
Speaker 1: those who do not identify that way. And here's another
27:15
Speaker 1: quote from INVESTIPDIA. Additionally, a seventeen survey conducted by the
27:21
Speaker 1: Center for the Study of Student Life at the Ohio
27:24
Speaker 1: State University found that the two d forty four participants
27:28
Speaker 1: who identified as either transgender men are gender non conforming
27:32
Speaker 1: were more likely to take out a loan to pay
27:35
Speaker 1: for college eight two somewhat more likely to have student
27:39
Speaker 1: loan debt three point nine percent, and slightly more likely
27:43
Speaker 1: to rely on financial assistance from family members to pay
27:46
Speaker 1: for college expenses to percent than their CIS gender counterparts.
27:51
Speaker 1: The report also detailed how trans folks were more likely
27:55
Speaker 1: to face discrimination, rejection, and bullying, leading them to drop
27:59
Speaker 1: out of school or for their grades or suffer, and
28:03
Speaker 1: perhaps prolonging their schooling and increasing their debt um So
28:09
Speaker 1: there's that and then all of the sticks around from
28:14
Speaker 1: go banking. About fourteen percent of women in that age
28:18
Speaker 1: range have ten thousand to thirty thousand in student loan debts,
28:21
Speaker 1: and another fourteen percent have thirty thousand and one dollars
28:26
Speaker 1: to fifty thousand. That means that at the age when
28:30
Speaker 1: they should be scrambling to max out, there four o
28:32
Speaker 1: one ks and I raise more than one woman in
28:36
Speaker 1: four is approaching retirement with ten thousand to fifty thousand
28:40
Speaker 1: dollars in student loan debt. About seven percent have fifty
28:45
Speaker 1: thousand and one dollar to seventy thousand in college debt,
28:50
Speaker 1: and four percent to have between seventy thousand and one
28:52
Speaker 1: dollar and one hundred thousand dollars, and another four percent
28:57
Speaker 1: have more than one hundred thousand dollars. And so this
29:01
Speaker 1: has been a very quote heavy and number heavy episode.
29:04
Speaker 1: But I just want to reiterate the mental toll, the
29:10
Speaker 1: emotional toll that this has um which I've seen in
29:14
Speaker 1: my friends. Like I said, I've seen them cry when
29:17
Speaker 1: they finally paid off their loans. I've seen them cry
29:20
Speaker 1: when they realized they wouldn't be paying off their loans
29:23
Speaker 1: as quickly as they thought they would, and just this
29:27
Speaker 1: thing that hovers over you, UM that you know. I
29:38
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for everybody, but from personal experience,
29:40
Speaker 1: like sometimes you go to school and you don't know
29:42
Speaker 1: what you want UM, you don't know what you really
29:46
Speaker 1: want to do, and then to be in debt for
29:50
Speaker 1: something that maybe is not going to serve you, whether
29:55
Speaker 1: it's because times have changed and the college degree to
30:00
Speaker 1: doesn't mean as much as it once did, or because
30:03
Speaker 1: you were young when you decided to do this thing
30:05
Speaker 1: and then you change your mind, like have this just
30:11
Speaker 1: bill like always coming, you owe this much money. It
30:15
Speaker 1: takes an emotional toll. I mean definitely. When you talk
30:18
Speaker 1: about people who don't know what they want to do,
30:20
Speaker 1: they often don't use the degree that they get UM
30:23
Speaker 1: because they had no idea what it would involve and
30:25
Speaker 1: it doesn't have real worlds applications UM when you leave,
30:29
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about both my my field and like
30:32
Speaker 1: I did know what I wanted when I left, Obviously
30:35
Speaker 1: I couldn't sustain it because it wasn't enough for me
30:38
Speaker 1: to live on UM in that field. And I know
30:41
Speaker 1: people who do it, but I also know people who
30:43
Speaker 1: do it are in like a couple of theom that
30:45
Speaker 1: are able to have dual income, and they still that's
30:47
Speaker 1: still a stretch. That's still a stretch. And even those
30:50
Speaker 1: people go into what I've done to when I had
30:53
Speaker 1: two or three jobs at a time, um, trying to
30:55
Speaker 1: do so. I have a friend who she got her
30:59
Speaker 1: masters and she works in the same field, but she's
31:02
Speaker 1: having to do another job on top of that because
31:04
Speaker 1: she's still paying off not only her debt but just
31:07
Speaker 1: trying to live day by day. Um. And what is
31:11
Speaker 1: increasingly become unfair for those who we would look put
31:14
Speaker 1: in the lower economic status, uh, just having struggles in
31:18
Speaker 1: society because we cannot pay rent, we cannot pay uh
31:22
Speaker 1: car payments, we cannot pay with inflation all those things
31:26
Speaker 1: that this cost of just getting food has gotten high,
31:30
Speaker 1: and it's always gone high, and then we don't have
31:32
Speaker 1: an increase on what was the minimum wage. So therefore,
31:36
Speaker 1: if the bottom, if the person who is getting paid
31:38
Speaker 1: the bare minimum is not enough for a living wage
31:41
Speaker 1: from even ten years ago, there's no up ladder for
31:44
Speaker 1: anybody else either, because that's still the president that it holds.
31:49
Speaker 1: Unless it's a nonprofit, which maybe you can get into,
31:52
Speaker 1: you better hope you can get into, but you better.
31:54
Speaker 1: Hope you've had experience to get into that. There's so
31:56
Speaker 1: many things that causes so many issues with these conversations,
32:01
Speaker 1: because we also know that the credit system that gets
32:03
Speaker 1: set up to nineteen nine and the same people who
32:06
Speaker 1: are whining about the fact that we need to just
32:07
Speaker 1: get over and pay for it are the pa people
32:09
Speaker 1: who never had to deal with the same level of
32:12
Speaker 1: scrutiny that we have to. We know that these practices
32:15
Speaker 1: were placed to give capitalist ideas a step above and
32:19
Speaker 1: putting and this was a racist tactic in what is
32:23
Speaker 1: being placed on who is being economically who has had
32:27
Speaker 1: given the economic advantage. And I say this as a
32:30
Speaker 1: person that is uh, I guess my debt is like
32:33
Speaker 1: a white person, even though Asian people have done a
32:36
Speaker 1: little better, because that's a whole different conversation, you know,
32:40
Speaker 1: like there's this a whole level um. But when it
32:43
Speaker 1: comes down to it, it's so I I gave up
32:47
Speaker 1: at one point time when I went into when I
32:49
Speaker 1: lost my job, trying to figure out what I want
32:50
Speaker 1: to do, not trying not to lose my mind or
32:54
Speaker 1: maybe my saying my health. Um, I gave up and
32:58
Speaker 1: it really really was I'll never be able to be
33:00
Speaker 1: free of this. So therefore I'll just pay the MINIMU
33:03
Speaker 1: until I die and hope that it just disappears after
33:06
Speaker 1: that because I think my parents will be dead. I'm
33:08
Speaker 1: not gonna have kids, so they're not gonna take it.
33:10
Speaker 1: So let's just cross our fingers that's what's gonna happen.
33:15
Speaker 1: Because there's so much to that that I'm like, I
33:18
Speaker 1: can never do a job that's so stressful, but I
33:22
Speaker 1: feel like I was supposed to do and pay off.
33:25
Speaker 1: So if I was getting, like, if you think about mathematically,
33:28
Speaker 1: my actual salary before taxes was twenty seven nineties something
33:34
Speaker 1: n something. Takeaway taxes, we know that's like a third
33:37
Speaker 1: of it is gone. So now we're putting it down
33:39
Speaker 1: to sixteen thousand a year and then trying to live
33:42
Speaker 1: on my own, having my own car payments, paying bills,
33:45
Speaker 1: having the student low that is not helping me whatsoever.
33:49
Speaker 1: And if I may maybe can do extracurricular stuff, then yeah.
33:55
Speaker 1: But I literally was getting I think at that point,
33:58
Speaker 1: eight hundred and seven dollars per paycheck, which was like
34:02
Speaker 1: right for a new person who never had money outside
34:04
Speaker 1: of the minimum wage, and that was below minimum wage
34:08
Speaker 1: for the hours that I was working. It was almost
34:10
Speaker 1: impossible to keep up with too high. Maybe it was
34:15
Speaker 1: like seven yeah, I think it was seven something because
34:18
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure it out. And this includes
34:20
Speaker 1: hopefully I'm being healthy and I don't have to go
34:23
Speaker 1: see a doctor, because all of that is a part
34:25
Speaker 1: of this. Um. I just literally it was. I would
34:30
Speaker 1: sit I remember sitting crying at my friends trying to
34:33
Speaker 1: figure out how to do this, how to pay my
34:36
Speaker 1: bills because what I was doing was getting credit cards
34:39
Speaker 1: with high interest rate and paying it with that, so
34:41
Speaker 1: that was not helpful either because I was trying to
34:43
Speaker 1: obtain so I just finally gave up on everything, on everything.
34:47
Speaker 1: You know. I actually got a dog, which was amazing
34:50
Speaker 1: for my mental health, but I had always had to
34:52
Speaker 1: pay four thousand dollars for his health bills, so on
34:56
Speaker 1: top of that, it was it was impossible. I never
35:00
Speaker 1: felt so defeated, and I still kind of feel that
35:04
Speaker 1: way today, like I've got I'm in a better place. Obviously,
35:06
Speaker 1: I've been able to buy a house, and I'm not gloating,
35:08
Speaker 1: but honestly it's because it was paused and the way
35:12
Speaker 1: everything worked out, it got bought out by different companies,
35:15
Speaker 1: so it looked like it got paid off. So I
35:17
Speaker 1: hit the sweet spot. I'm saying, I'm very very personal
35:20
Speaker 1: about my finances about this, but I had a sweet
35:22
Speaker 1: spot where it didn't show up on my credit so
35:25
Speaker 1: I was able to have more borrowing power, which I
35:28
Speaker 1: didn't go. I didn't go outside of my scale. I
35:31
Speaker 1: was like, nope, I've I've I've learned at this point,
35:35
Speaker 1: I've learned better. Um. But yeah, it's a hard thing
35:38
Speaker 1: coming back into this reality and checking it and trying
35:40
Speaker 1: to figure out how to do best do this and
35:42
Speaker 1: knowing that I'm in a better place than I was before,
35:45
Speaker 1: but also filled this whole like I cannot believe I'm
35:47
Speaker 1: still dealing with this twenty years later, Um, for a
35:51
Speaker 1: degree that literally got me paid nothing, and then being
35:56
Speaker 1: told it's so important. I think that's the one of
36:00
Speaker 1: the biggest things that's frustrated me about this whole conversation
36:07
Speaker 1: is that the idea is you go to college, you'll
36:10
Speaker 1: get a well paying job, and that's not true. It
36:15
Speaker 1: might be, but generally that is not something you can
36:18
Speaker 1: trust anymore, if it ever was something you can trust. Ever,
36:38
Speaker 1: we do have some I don't know possible solutions things
36:43
Speaker 1: people are talking about, right, Samantha, So I guess we
36:47
Speaker 1: do have some new conversations because it's become part of
36:50
Speaker 1: the limeline have been a big controversy, but we know
36:53
Speaker 1: doing the pandemic, there's been a pause on the federal
36:56
Speaker 1: sort of loan payments. Again, like I said, it's helped
36:58
Speaker 1: me out um and through these talks of extensions, and
37:03
Speaker 1: there may be more. There's more talks of it coming through,
37:05
Speaker 1: possibly until at least three who knows, because it's supposed
37:09
Speaker 1: to end this month. But the end is nigh as
37:12
Speaker 1: as we would like to say, because we know this
37:14
Speaker 1: can't be forever. Just like how little stimulus they gave us,
37:17
Speaker 1: this is very little that they will give us as well.
37:20
Speaker 1: But the discussion has been ongoing, um and so we
37:23
Speaker 1: thought we would take a moment to talk about what
37:26
Speaker 1: some of these solutions that have been proposed by different organizations,
37:29
Speaker 1: maybe our federal representatives, whatever, and even individuals, about best
37:34
Speaker 1: possible solutions. Of course, the big one which I've been
37:38
Speaker 1: really crossing my fingers for it and a lot of
37:39
Speaker 1: us have, is just canceling all of the student debt,
37:42
Speaker 1: just point blake, canceling it now um. Of course this
37:45
Speaker 1: would be too close to having a free education and
37:49
Speaker 1: to socialists, I'm sure for so many people, So the
37:52
Speaker 1: likelihood of this is very, very low. We also know
37:55
Speaker 1: when it comes to UH capitalism, federal loans, educational loans
38:00
Speaker 1: have been privatized Thanks Day, it was priortized before. Don't
38:05
Speaker 1: get me started. But as well as the fact that yes,
38:09
Speaker 1: people have a lot of money in this to get
38:12
Speaker 1: those interest rates, to get that payment, because that's how
38:14
Speaker 1: they trickle into the economy, is taking it from people
38:18
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the wrong We know this, UM.
38:21
Speaker 1: But another idea, and the one that seems to be
38:24
Speaker 1: kind of the most likely today. You know, I'll say
38:27
Speaker 1: that today because it changes a lot, is for giving
38:30
Speaker 1: up to somewhere in the ten thousand to fifty thousand range.
38:34
Speaker 1: So the conversation has thrown out all these different numbers. UH.
38:38
Speaker 1: One has been the ten thousand, and there's another twenty
38:40
Speaker 1: five thousand, there's another fifty thousand, and ideas run from
38:43
Speaker 1: having the Secretary of Education to move forward with legislation
38:48
Speaker 1: to get in that to Biden. President Biden actually signing
38:52
Speaker 1: an executive order, which was actually one of the things
38:55
Speaker 1: that Elizabeth Warren. Representative Warren has put her platform against
39:00
Speaker 1: say our cancel student loans, and she has been a
39:02
Speaker 1: big voice in this, as well as several other representatives
39:05
Speaker 1: as well. But she's talking about doing an executive order
39:09
Speaker 1: in order to do that. But currently White House Press
39:12
Speaker 1: Secretary has alluded to the fact that Biden will more
39:15
Speaker 1: more likely signed for a ten tho dollar forgiveness for everyone,
39:19
Speaker 1: which I've seen comments of like, that's great and all,
39:21
Speaker 1: but how does that really help for an eighty thousand
39:23
Speaker 1: dollar a loan that I have? And again, when we
39:26
Speaker 1: talk about what it looks like with interest rates and
39:28
Speaker 1: what you're paying off, and I know this happens with houses.
39:31
Speaker 1: To this, this whole system is corrupt. And of course
39:35
Speaker 1: there has been suggestions that there should be no interest loans,
39:39
Speaker 1: as in zero interests, which has been a pain in
39:43
Speaker 1: the butt for many of people. This interest rate. Again,
39:45
Speaker 1: I say this, even though the interest rates is low,
39:48
Speaker 1: when it completely spirals out, it's like a never ending hole. Um.
39:53
Speaker 1: But then there's another possibility, which is to offer zero
39:56
Speaker 1: percent interests until twenty four which sounds like a really
40:01
Speaker 1: big cop out to me. Um. But yeah, one of
40:05
Speaker 1: the short term ideas UM, and then there's a conversation,
40:08
Speaker 1: what about the bigger picture, what about the long term fixes? UM,
40:11
Speaker 1: and some have had suggested the usage of the public
40:14
Speaker 1: service alone forgiveness. As a person who was in public service,
40:18
Speaker 1: it is so difficult to get this type of loan,
40:21
Speaker 1: and by the way, you have to be there for
40:23
Speaker 1: ten years uninterrupted with perfect credit almost and perfect payment
40:29
Speaker 1: repayment records, as well as you must get documentation from
40:33
Speaker 1: each employee that the the level of requirements that you
40:38
Speaker 1: have to meet is hard y'all, and that's why so
40:41
Speaker 1: many people were denied and people trying to use this
40:43
Speaker 1: as I see, we're doing something different. We're helping, we're
40:46
Speaker 1: helping our teachers and our people. They're not they're not,
40:50
Speaker 1: they're not. This was introduced, by the way, in two
40:52
Speaker 1: thousand seven UM, but has not been usable until this
40:55
Speaker 1: year really with previous restrictions being changed as well as
40:59
Speaker 1: some are ineligible payments to be counted, so there's a
41:03
Speaker 1: type of loan that you can count this for. But
41:05
Speaker 1: now you can chaunt these UM. So the waiver has changed,
41:08
Speaker 1: but that has a time limit right now. So if
41:10
Speaker 1: you don't do it, I think before December, you cannot
41:13
Speaker 1: qualify it. But that that is that conversation about trying
41:16
Speaker 1: to extend uh these waivers um. And I would say
41:20
Speaker 1: I don't qualify because I'm not there. Still I really
41:23
Speaker 1: want because at least you just take it off for
41:25
Speaker 1: the ten years out worth there um. So Uh. There's
41:29
Speaker 1: also the conversation of making the income driven payments, which
41:32
Speaker 1: I talked about earlier, which has always been an option
41:35
Speaker 1: but not necessarily helpful when it comes to paying off
41:38
Speaker 1: again the principle I have to keep talking about that
41:41
Speaker 1: more accessible, as well as capping the monthly payments to
41:44
Speaker 1: ten percent or less of the discretionary income, so that
41:47
Speaker 1: would make it significant. But again, if they don't change
41:49
Speaker 1: what kind of interest rates they are getting, it doesn't matter.
41:53
Speaker 1: They're just paying off the interest rates. Uh. Again, at
41:55
Speaker 1: the very least putting people who have defaulted on the
41:58
Speaker 1: loans to go to good staying in their credit reports,
42:01
Speaker 1: which would be significantly helpful for those who have defaulted. Again,
42:05
Speaker 1: this is a minor solution for a huge problem that
42:09
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's going to elevate much at all. Um. Again.
42:12
Speaker 1: But even with all of these ideas, outside of outright
42:15
Speaker 1: again canceling out right all of the student debt, the
42:19
Speaker 1: overall debt can still be a deterrent for so many
42:21
Speaker 1: people trying to get debt free, uh and trying to
42:23
Speaker 1: move forward in their lives, whether includes trying to buy
42:26
Speaker 1: large purchases is like a home or trying to start
42:30
Speaker 1: the next phase in their family planning. This is a
42:33
Speaker 1: huge impact and what is happening. It carries on for
42:36
Speaker 1: a long long time. And again there's also this whole
42:39
Speaker 1: level of buying out which I mentioned earlier, that causes
42:43
Speaker 1: so much confusion and can cause a lot of chaos. Yeah,
42:47
Speaker 1: it is a very confusing conversation in a lot of ways.
42:50
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things that the more I
42:53
Speaker 1: read about it, the more I was like, Yeah, this
42:56
Speaker 1: is this is messed up that we're essentially expecting people
43:00
Speaker 1: to go into debts so they can make money maybe
43:03
Speaker 1: and they probably won't um and this will be haunting
43:07
Speaker 1: them for the rest of their lives. It does have
43:09
Speaker 1: a huge emotional mental toll. It does have a huge
43:13
Speaker 1: impact on family planning, on like buying, how anything, any
43:17
Speaker 1: of your future decisions. It just seems like another way
43:23
Speaker 1: we're set up to fail. Yeah, indeed, indeed, And I
43:29
Speaker 1: just want to say this has been uh kind of
43:32
Speaker 1: a negative I guess the downer, which we we don't
43:35
Speaker 1: shy away from ever. But I do want to say
43:38
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed my college experience. I feel like I
43:42
Speaker 1: learned a lot that wasn't even the subjects I study,
43:46
Speaker 1: but also just had to argue and formulate points. And
43:50
Speaker 1: you know, the college experience can vary for people. I
43:53
Speaker 1: made friendships and memories that have lasted my life. My
43:56
Speaker 1: dad was a college professor and he was adamant and
44:02
Speaker 1: um just really really it was so important to him.
44:08
Speaker 1: It was so important to him, and he loved doing that.
44:10
Speaker 1: UM So, I don't want it to sound like we're
44:15
Speaker 1: saying I never go to college, but there's something wrong here,
44:18
Speaker 1: Like this is this is not set up in a
44:22
Speaker 1: way that is working. I hope that we can find
44:25
Speaker 1: a way so that it is accessible for everybody and
44:29
Speaker 1: it does not come with a massive debt. Well, you know,
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Speaker 1: welcome back to school, as we said, and as always,
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Speaker 1: if you have any resources or things we should look
44:41
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44:45
Speaker 1: share that would be fantastic, you can email us a
44:48
Speaker 1: stuff media mom Stuff at iHeart meat dot com. You
44:51
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Speaker 1: on Instagram and stuff I Never told You. Thanks it's
44:56
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. You're the best. Christina,
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Speaker 1: Yes indeed, and thanks to you for listening. Steph, we
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