Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / How a Comparison-Free Life Leads to Joy, Peace, and Rest | Guest Heather Creekmore Enneagram 7

Transcript

How a Comparison-Free Life Leads to Joy, Peace, and Rest | Guest Heather Creekmore Enneagram 7 · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:03
SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: As a wife, mama of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging, but I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: As an Enneagram Type 7, I am all about the fun factor.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own unique life.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a verse that says that God has given us all things to enjoy.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: All?
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, friends, it means all.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: With the Lord's help, there's truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast, where you can expect solo style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: And let's get to learning together.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Hey friend, are you tired of chasing better?
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Do you feel the weight of pressure to measure up to others?
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, Heather Craigmore, author in Enneagram 7, joins me for a conversation around the harmful pursuit of perfection and the unfortunate result, or maybe even better said, consequences of comparison.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: While other books on comparison call readers to embrace their own uniqueness, Heather's book, The Burden of Better, reveals that only a deep understanding of God's grace and personal reliance on that grace can cure the epidemic of comparison flooding our minds.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: I'd love for you to join me today as we dig into comparison and also Heather's hesitancy with the Enneagram.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: I am loving what we came up with and our journey together about could this Enneagram thing be a good asset?
2:25
SPEAKER_02: I think you're gonna like what she has to say.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Together we talk about a viral video that is out there telling believers to stay away from the Enneagram.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think you might enjoy being a fly on the wall as we debunk and question some of the messaging of those popular arguments.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Now, friend, if you long to ditch the harmful habits and mindsets associated with comparison, or you've maybe even experienced negative feedback for being a Christian and using the Enneagram, this episode is going to help you with both of those.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: I can't wait for you to listen in.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: Truth be told, we were scheduled to have this conversation a long time ago.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And I'll share it from my perspective, and then you'll get to share it from yours.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to remember who sent me your book.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: I want to say it was Jeannie.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: So Jeannie, and I was like, ooh, I like this.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: I like the title.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: I like this message.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be really good.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: And so we scheduled, and then I kept getting these like rescheduling notices from Heather, and it kept being pushed out and pushed out.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: I was like, Well, that's interesting.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: They finally canceled.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, this doesn't happen.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Here's the deal.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: I've been doing a podcast long enough.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, people don't cancel unless something's really wrong.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: So I did write and I was like, Heather, is everything okay?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: I just want to make sure.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, sweet Heather writes back and it's like, Well, you know, it's this Enneagram thing.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm just not too sure.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: I even wrote about it, but I'm just not too sure.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: And I I was like, man, darn it, not another one.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: And it it happened to hit me at an interesting time where I felt like there was a lot of people really challenging, really questioning, you know, Amy and people who I cared about.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Strangers is one thing.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: I can get strangers from messages all, you know, messages from strangers all day long and be like, whatever.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: But people who I care about, I'm like, that's another thing.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: So this led us to a what really wonderful conversation because it happened to be timely as I was getting my book out called Should Christians Use the Enneagram.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Gave us great fodder for conversation.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's where I'll I'll leave the cliffhanger right there.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we're talking.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna let Heather share her version.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you didn't write it off to me rescheduling too.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, she's probably just a seven and something else came up.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: I was like, you know, I mean, I have gotten a couple of unique situations where I'm like, I'm so sorry, at least I could pray for you.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: No, you know, so like I shared, you know, with you when we were going back and forth with email, I love personality tests.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Like I have always loved personality tests.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: At one point in my life, I was looking at getting a master's degree in organizational behavior because I loved personality tests that much.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And in so many ways, I would say I was first introduced to like this whole concept of personality testing, just in general, just talking generally in college, and it changed my life.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really did.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: And I had a roommate, a college roommate in that class with me, and like we couldn't have been any more different.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: And so it was really fun for the two of us.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: We had five girls in our apartment, and for the two of us to kind of, you know, we're typing everyone, right?
5:56
SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, back then it was more Myers Briggs, you know, semester.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like, oh, that's why she puts her name.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: She's on D, right?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Or that's why she puts her name on everything in the refrigerator, you know, or that's why she's always sleeping in and always late for everything, you know.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: And so so this has been just, you know, something that I've really enjoyed for a long time.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And so a Christian biblical counselor that I love and respect so much introduced my husband and I to the Enneagram.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, hey, why don't you get this book?
6:28
SPEAKER_01: He's like, it's not a Christian book.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you get this book?
6:31
SPEAKER_01: It might be interesting for you.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: And this is not what you're supposed to do.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know that.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: But like my husband and I are like reading it, and he was a pastor at the time, and I hope no one from our former church is listening to this.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, we're like sitting there, like, oh yeah, this is pretty much everybody typing the whole congregation.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: It was a small church, right?
6:48
SPEAKER_01: But but in so many ways it did help us, right?
6:51
SPEAKER_01: Because it was like enlightening, right?
6:54
SPEAKER_02: This is why they think this way.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: And and so it's like, well, now I know how to deal with that person, right?
7:00
SPEAKER_01: Especially especially the eights.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: I know, just joking.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm an eight-wing, I can say that too.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: We can say that.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: We know, we know.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: But but so, but then I started getting the messages too, because I actually sent a message to my subscribers saying, Hey, you know, I think this is a great tool.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And I started getting the have you seen the video about how the Enneagram is straight from the cult?
7:23
SPEAKER_01: I was like, No, I haven't seen that video.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Should I watch that video?
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't actually know if I watched the whole thing or not, or just have so many people.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And and again, there were some people that I really respect that reached out and they were like, Yeah, Heather, don't go there.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I first canceled on you, I was like, okay, do I need to just be super far away and just pretend this thing doesn't exist and you know, burn my books and all the time.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Totally found it too.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was just really not sure where I should be.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, I'm doing research for my next book, and I'm reading a book.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, this was, I guess, this summer when we were having this conversation or last spring.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm reading a book called Quiet by Susan Kane, and it's a book about introversion.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: In that book, there were some interesting things and typing kind of things, right?
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And then that kind of led me to read another book about the history of Myers Briggs, which floored me.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: This isn't science, right?
8:26
SPEAKER_01: And and so what that helped me do, and and you know, you and I have kind of discussed this, was kind of figure out that okay, anytime we are putting too much stock, too much weight into these tasks, making these tests our identity, that's a problem.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: But can these tasks be helpful in our lives?
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Of course they can.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where I landed, and I guess why we're having this conversation today.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: No, I loved it.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: It was really great because you were willing, bless your heart, and in the midst of everything that you were doing, including manuscript work, but to go through the material that I had.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: And you even wrote comments and the margins because you know, good old Google Docs.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: It was just really great.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, I've actually shared it with a couple of people who are very similar.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: We were in relationship, maybe we're going forward in a collaboration, and then I don't know if I can touch this.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: And so some people have landed feeling differently convicted.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: But I think ultimately you and I landed in a place of going, this is just an awesome tool.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Is it can we find it in the Bible and in scriptures?
9:30
SPEAKER_02: No, but we also can see how the scriptures, like inspired word of God, used the culture, the stories of the culture, even pagan culture, to illustrate God at work, to highlight his divinity and the divine, you know, that we're created in his image and the conception of the world, and even, you know, famous New Testament passages, Paul preaching, Mars Hill Sermon, being a famous, you know, one of the more famous of his passages in Acts and just so many different elements that I think this is where the invitation to be in the world and that of the world is totally applicable.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: How can we come and utilize something that can culturally help us engage and not only be able to utilize it for the benefit and the health of our spiritual walk and relationships, but also be able to relate to people on a whole nother level?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: All tools that are not the Bible are pagan.
10:30
unknown: Right.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if we're gonna cut and dry it, a hundred percent.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think my fear was okay, if this originated in the occult, then that's probably a problem.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: But reading your manuscript kind of helped me see that no, it doesn't seem like that's where it started.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I am sure that there are Satanists out there using Myers Briggs.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: We can find them, I promise you.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: But you know what I mean?
10:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's like where where are you gonna draw the line?
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And then asking the question, can it be redeemed?
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Is there a way for this to be redeemed for a good purpose and for a godly purpose?
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And I I think that that's um what you try to get to in your manuscript.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think that video that it was so funny because just last night we had some good friends over, and they were staying the night to take the a flight out of Kansas City for a long little trip away.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: But we were talking about Ennea Gram because she was really gung-ho, similar thing, and she was like, I'm taking your book on vacation because she had Dear Friends challenge.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: And so we were talking about the video, and I said it's really sneaky about that video because honestly, to back it up, some of the context behind the video, this is something that Oscar Achazzo did say, but he never had a clear indication that he was associated with occult.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Like he didn't ever identify with being involved in anything new age or occultic.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: And so I think occultic is a word, right?
11:59
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so the fact that he said automatic writing may have just been something that came out of his mouth and that meaning to defer to something that he was receiving, some angelic message, which we would all as believers be like, uh, you know, the word of God is only, you know, but at the same time, you and I as writers, do we not partner with the Holy Spirit to write our own work?
12:24
SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will go back and read something like I wrote, yes, and be like, I don't remember that at all.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't remember writing that.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And then I have literally gone so far as to look through the editor's edits to be like, maybe they added that and I just didn't see it before.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I mean, I think that there are times when you go in the zone, right?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And it got not in an inspired way, like scriptures are written.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to claim that at all here, right?
12:55
SPEAKER_01: But like I think that's just like leading your thoughts so quickly that you know the words just come out, they just flow.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, okay, thank you.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's the same as when God directs us when we're talking to someone, you know, yeah.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: When we're talking to someone, you're like, I have no idea where that came from, but that was, I guess, what I needed to say in this conversation because that seemed to bless you.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: So praise you.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Praise you for you say that because I don't know that I was gonna say that on my own.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, he he does help us in that way.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know about Oscar's all of his police or anything like that, but I think it was just him, you know, the titling though is very interesting because I don't I think a lot of people pass around that YouTube video and don't actually watch it kind of like you mentioned, right?
13:40
SPEAKER_02: But the title alone as a believer, it's like, oh, I don't want to be touching, I don't want to be involved in that.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: And so just kind of an interesting, you know, food for thought.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And again, ultimately, where this friend that we were talking last night, she was like, you know, I kind of decided if even if it was a cultic origins, like, could the Lord redeem it?
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Is he big enough?
14:00
SPEAKER_02: If is he able to redeem something that maybe was meant for evil and use it for good?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, yes, that is biblical, anyway.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: I just like, well, you know, some light reading for your vacation.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear what you think.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: I just love that.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: And I love what you just say about your writing because I think as that's the beauty of getting to write some of our story, write some of our experience to help someone.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: So on that, I mean, that's why we're talking.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: That's originally why we it set this up.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: So you're working on yet another book, but um, we did sign up to talk about the burn of better, and you can certainly give us a sneak peek about the 2022 book because I know it's a process.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's actually going to be further out than 2022.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there you go.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's far away forever.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: These books, like friends here who are not in the book world, you need to understand that these like the gestation period is longer than a natural baby.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: We were studying iHomeschool still, and I think elephants stay pregnant for a number of years, and that's you really, I think it's like two years.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: I think it is like a it is like a book, 100%.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's true.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: So while you are um, you know, nurturing that other book, baby, and we're gonna talk about this other one.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I like to sometimes preface the question of what was that brokenhearted moment that led you to write or share or start or begin.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: And so for you, what really birthed this book and this message of the burden of better?
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Really, the brokenhearted moment came before my first book, which was called Compared to Who?
15:40
SPEAKER_01: I had a lifelong struggle with body image issues.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I could have told you that.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: And then if you'd stopped and said, Do you have body image issues?
15:47
SPEAKER_01: I probably would have been like, not sure what that means.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, but am I always on a diet?
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Do I always think about how I could change my body and look better?
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Am I always following the next exercise fad?
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Have I starved myself?
16:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, have I gone overboard eating because I starved myself?
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, all those things regularly, right?
16:12
SPEAKER_01: And um, and so it wasn't until so my my journey with body image stuff started in about the third grade.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: So we're talking elementary school, and it wasn't until I was in my late 30s that I really felt like God revealed to me the heart of my body image issues was an idolatry issue.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: And so that was a big thing I had never even heard of or conceived of or thought was possible.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I grew up in the church, I started going to Christian school in seventh grade, all the way through graduate school.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: So I just thought, you know, we didn't have a garden gnome.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I turned away from the Buddha statue, idolatry was not an issue.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: That was really like a huge turning point in my life, even in my Christian walk, right?
16:52
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, when there's idolatry present, like there's a separation between us and God, right?
16:59
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, yeah, God, I love you, Jesus.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Yep, oh God, I surrender all except my weight and my gene size and what the mirror thinks of me.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: I surrender everything else, but let me just keep controlling this part.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: And so I wrote Compare to Who back in 2015, 14, and it came out in 2017.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: And then after it came out, a number of my um my readers and I have a podcast too, so my listeners were like, Okay, Heather, we got the body image thing.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Now, what about comparing ourselves in other areas?
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not just that we compare what we look like to other people, like I'm comparing how I mother, what my marriage is like, what my house is like, what my job is like, how many friends I have on you know, Facebook, all those things.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And so they're like, Can you write a book on that?
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, sure.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: That's easy, right?
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Solving comparison.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure, yeah, let me just whip that out.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I really had to go into kind of a place of like, I don't know if I know the answer here.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I knew the answer with body image, and I was like, that book just kind of spilled right out of me.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, I don't, I don't know.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: It's what what's going on?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Where do you want me to go with this?
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And so what God showed me was that really the cure for our comparison issues is a deeper understanding of his grace.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Now I know how like Christian ease that can sound.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh yeah, okay, it's grace, okay, you know, that's nice.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, another book that I won't get anything out of might be what some of you are thinking.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: But but really, you know, I think all the different ways that I compared myself to others, all the ways I looked around and thought I was falling short, or I hadn't been blessed enough, right?
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, God, why didn't you give me, you know, this or that or something like hers, right?
19:01
SPEAKER_01: All of those things were just a reflection of something going on in my Christian walk, which was me not really having a deep enough understanding of all the different ways God's grace spoke to my insecurity, you know, to my identity, to really like the gifts he had given me, and you know, and to tie this into Enneagram, like to the strengths and the personality and the way he had wired me for a purpose, right?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: And so seeing his grace through all of that, I think really gives us a different angle on the comparison issue than we hear in cliches, right?
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Because I knew I didn't want to write a book that just filled out the comparison is a thief of joy.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Remember, you will not be joyful if you're comparing.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: So just stop.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, that doesn't really help.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: There's the meme you've probably, you know, we've all forwarded it, or at least press like on it, right?
19:55
SPEAKER_01: The don't compare your behind the scenes with someone else's highlights real, right?
19:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, yeah, that's true.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: But what if my bad really is worse than your bad?
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Right?
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, what if your biggest problem is your kid will not clean his room, and my biggest problem is my kid's doing drugs, and I'm not sure if he's ever gonna come home again, right?
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Like that's where that cute pithy saying falls apart, right?
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Right, because basically it says just don't compare your bad to good.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, and that we can go, okay, sure, but but but you can't compare your bad to bad either, because it's still comparison, right?
20:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think about Rachel and Leah in the Bible.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, oh, these magazine covers and oh the women on Netflix and the women on Instagram, and uh, but like Rachel and Leah did not have like vogue or glamour or Instagram, right?
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yet the God of the universe still told us one of them was hot and one of them was not, right?
21:05
SPEAKER_01: So true.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: God chose to put that in there.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's kind of crazy, right?
21:10
SPEAKER_01: It is, it is that shatters all of our paradigms of you don't say that one woman is better looking than another, right?
21:16
SPEAKER_01: God made us all beautiful.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I think about how there are so many different ways we have tried to, in a way, like make our comparison make sense or justify it, or you know, I don't know, like make it culturally acceptable that it's okay that as Christians we're still comparing to.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: And I just don't think that's what scripture instructs.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Wow, unpack that a little bit more.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know that you're so passionate about it.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: I know this is something that you could talk about for hours because I think a lot of times, and even what what I love about the Enneagram is that there's so much, in particular in our Christian culture, that we just suppress instead of deal with, instead of Have permission to be honest about and to acknowledge.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that women wrote to you and like, okay, we got this, like, I get that.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Now it's supposed to compare my gene size to her gene size, but what about all the other things?
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So, what do we do?
22:13
SPEAKER_02: What does that look like?
22:15
SPEAKER_02: What does it when our bad really is pretty awful?
22:19
SPEAKER_02: And and it feels like maybe God forgot us.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: And I know you and I, as a seven, each each personality type, we could go through how each one it feels like that message is not being hit.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: And for you and I, I mean, there is that real deal of like to be satisfied in all arenas of life is something that we really have to go to God for because we have an insatiable appetite for all the things.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Don't make me choose just one flavor.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: That's cruelty.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: No, free scoops, please, one of each.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I have four chapters on different kinds of grace in the second part of the book.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: So the first part of the book really just looks at why is comparison a problem?
23:01
SPEAKER_01: It's a bigger problem than just being a thief of joy.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: I picture a thief of joy as like the guy that steals Amazon packages off the front porch.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, yeah, that's kind of shady, right?
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't appreciate the problem, but I'm not really scared of you.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: So, but it's more serious than that, right?
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Because our enemy, the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just this little, you know, thief with the little cartoony bandit black thing around his eyes, right?
23:36
SPEAKER_01: No, this is an enemy that wants to take you out.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And what's the best way for him to do that?
23:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of ways he can do it, but I think one of the most subtle ways is not to, you know, lead you into some egregious sin that's blatantly obvious to everyone.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that that's not for most of us, that's just not going to be the path, right?
23:59
SPEAKER_01: But what about just keeping you discontent?
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Keep or keeping you on a track where you are so focused on getting better at whatever things are important to you, right?
24:10
SPEAKER_01: So maybe it's chasing career success.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: How can I be better at my job to have more followers or whatever, or how can I make my marriage better?
24:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, marriage is a great thing, and improving a marriage can be a great thing, a healthy thing.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: But if that becomes the focus of your life over pursuing Christ, well, you're gonna drive your husband crazy.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's just it's not the right goal, it's not the right better.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: And so, really, the the title of my book is The Burden of Better, because there is a better that I believe Jesus wants us to be pursuing, and that's Him.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: But there's a whole lot of other betters in this world that end up taking up a lot of our time, attention, and energy.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And really, you know, kind of back to that idolatry thing, they really become idols, right?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Like even our ideals.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I talk about in this book that I it's it's the chapter that everyone wants to talk about when I do these interviews is a chapter on idealism.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Because I have women that will insist to me, Heather, I never compare myself to anyone else.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I am only driven, and I don't would this be the one maybe?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm only driven by the me I want to be, right?
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I am driven by my own ideals, and I need to be like that woman in my imagination.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: And that can't be bad because there's no other person involved.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and it's I get this all the time.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: I even I too, because a lot of my coaching that starts there of let's start dismantling the ideal.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: And so many women come to me, oh, I don't deal with perfectionism.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, sorry, honey, we all do for different reasons.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it look it looks different, right?
25:45
SPEAKER_01: Because like my kind of perfectionism, you can look at my desk and be like, she's not a perfectionist, but I tell you, you put me in charge of something, and I'm going to notice every little detail that is wrong with it, right?
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I forget.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're talking about better.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Idealism, idealism.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: I know.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Hey, we're sevens.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: When we have this ideal, even if she is not a real person, right?
26:13
SPEAKER_01: She is still this imaginary standard that we have for ourselves.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: And the way I like to explain it, Amy, is it's kind of like I have my list of expectations or ideals for myself, right?
26:28
SPEAKER_01: And I like to call it the book of Heather.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And so in the book of Heather, Heather looks like this.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: People think this of Heather, you know, Heather is this kind of mom, Heather does this, you know, this is what Heather weighs, right?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And so there's all these rules and expectations in the book of Heather.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: And I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to make Heather, me, happy by keeping the rules in the book of Heather.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And I have to just picture Jesus standing there looking at me, saying, Oh man, I already wrote a book.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I'm not asking to keep all these rules.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not telling you that you have to feed your children like organic foods for lunch every single day.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's an expectation you put on yourself.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: That's a pressure you put on yourself.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: And you're spending a whole lot of time chasing this ideal of yourself instead of chasing me.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And that is not where life is.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: And even more so, that is not where rest is, right?
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Because better.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: So I teach English on this side in my kids' homeschool co-op.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm a little bit of a grammar nerd, which people give me a hard time for because my first book is compared to who.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: And I used to get mean messages like, I can't read a book that doesn't know, like an author that doesn't know should be compared to whom.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know that, but it's not Spanish and stuffy and all the things.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Better is a comparative adjective.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: You can only use the term better when you are comparing two things.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: So better is an elusive destination.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's goal setting, which is fine, but if your goal is to be better for that, right?
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But if your goal is to be better, you will never reach it.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: It's totally elusive, it's always comparative.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
28:21
SPEAKER_01: If you try to get better, there will always be someone who's better, and then you'll have to be even better, and then they'll get better, and then they'll and it's just a losing battle.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: And it's so exhausting because it is never ending, and ultimately we won't ever find contentment or satisfaction or rest in the pursuit of that.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: We'll never get to that moment.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I will once I reach this, I can this.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: And that's where I know the heart of your message is helping women really discover what it can look like so that way they can take off that heavy yoke and really um no longer be burdened by it.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Because I know that so many of us, especially, you know, really speaking to those of us who are blessed to live in a first world country and we have the luxury and the comfort of our at our fingertips.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And we can pursue this.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are so many women that their pursuit is their daily bread.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: And so this is not an issue.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: But for those of us who have the luxury, and it's a heavy burden and one that I think holds us back from not, I think, I know it holds us back from the fullness of what the Lord has for us and has for us to do on this earth to make a greater impact.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: So we're not consumed by this one goal.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, Heather, this was so, so good.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't have anyone on that I don't believe that the book wouldn't help or the ministry or the music or the message, whatever it is.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: I sincerely say this.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: I hope my friends go out because this is a message for every woman.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: And maybe you're more of aware of it than you know, the person who's in denial, but regardless that this book would, you know, begin to unpack some of that and and help you dismantle some of those things where you're just held back from the fullness of what the Lord has for you because this is holding you message.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: So as we finish, what is maybe something that you would love to leave my friends with, something that we didn't cover, or just that action step that you would want to invite them to take, especially if they're aware of, like, yeah, the comparison thing tends to steal my joy more than it adds to it.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think my encouragement would just be that it is possible to be free from a life of comparison.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And I know 100% authentically that at one point for decades in my life, really, so I shouldn't say one point for a most of my life, I felt like it was impossible.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: That was the way I'd been trained by my parents, not on purpose, but you know, it's just what what I saw, right?
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And and that seemed like that's what everyone else around me was doing.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: It just did not seem like I could ever be free from that pressure of I need to know how I'm doing as compared to her and her and her and her, and that kind of almost this imaginary, you know, contest of all of all sorts, right?
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And I so my encouragement would be it is possible to be free.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: There is a path, it's not Jedi mind tricks, you know, it's not like chanting to yourself a mantra, right?
31:21
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a heart issue, and God heals hearts, God speaks to hearts, God's minute, God ministers to our hearts, and so when we treat it like a heart issue, we can find freedom.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Jesus dies, we could be free, right?
31:34
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Heather, that's so good.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: I love that word of encouragement.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's books, there's coaches, there's women like you and I who are championing our friends here who are listening today to really find that.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: And so we're here from you.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: So I would love it.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't always say this, but friends, if you if this really ministered to you, I'd love if you'd reach out to Heather Creekmore on Instagram or or even to myself and just say, hey, this is really wonderful, but I could use your help.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: So um I know that both of us are here to help you in one form or fashion.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: So bless you, Heather, and thank you so much.
32:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you, well, friend, do you feel a little lighter now?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Maybe some of the burden of pursuing better left your shoulders and your mind?
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Do you even maybe have a little bit more peace about using the Enneagram as Heather does now?
32:24
SPEAKER_02: The podcast team at Simply Wholehearted prays that each episode leaves you feeling better than how you felt when you first put your earbuds in.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: And notice I mentioned team?
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you guys, after five years of podcasting, I have a little bitty baby team.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Nyla Weeb, who lives in Canada, is my new, well, let's call her my podcast assistant.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Really, she's a more than an assistant, and I am so blessed to have have her.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: So quick shout out to Nyla who puts these episodes together and makes them sound so amazing, and even helps with the content so that way it can better serve you as a listener.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: Now, do you have any questions about how the Enneagram can work and go along with your Christian walk?
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, you can always direct message me on social media at wholehearted Enneagram, or I have a book relaunching soon called Should Christians Use the Enneagram?
33:26
SPEAKER_02: You can stay tuned for more details on where to find more about that.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: Now, mamas, as you go about the rest of your week, remember God has assigned you the kids you have for a reason.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: You are the mom for this job.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: With his borrowed ability, strength, wisdom, you got this.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: So until next week, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for this wholehearted year.