Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Fashion Rebels: Tish and Snooky's NYC Punk Odyssey [Episode 346]

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Fashion Rebels: Tish and Snooky's NYC Punk Odyssey [Episode 346] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Speaker 1: They perform with Blondie, launched America's first punk boutique, and
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Speaker 1: started the world first alternative beauty brand, Manic Panic. It's
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Speaker 1: the legendary New York City punk fashion pioneer duo Tish
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Speaker 1: and Snooky Blomo.
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Speaker 2: Next, We're totally booked rock and roll.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
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Speaker 1: Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll Up,
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Speaker 1: I totally booked. Welcome back to book dot Rock, the
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Speaker 1: podcast for those about to read and rock. We have
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Speaker 1: special guests on the show today, Tish and Snooky BelOMO,
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Speaker 1: the authors of Manic Panic Living in Color, a rebellious
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Speaker 1: guide to hair color and life. Welcome Tish and Snookie.
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Speaker 3: Thank you sir.
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Speaker 1: This comes from your website and read something from your website.
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Speaker 1: Manicpanic dot com. Sisters in New York City natives, Tish
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Speaker 1: and Snooky Bolomo have been America's darlings of creative hair
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Speaker 1: color and punk rock pioneers and taste makers since their
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Speaker 1: days in the original Blondie band lineup in the mid seventies,
1:03
Speaker 1: Opening America's first punk boutique in nineteen seventy seven, they
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Speaker 1: went on to start the world's first alternative beauty brand
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Speaker 1: Manic Panic, leading the hair color revolution and changing the
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Speaker 1: concept of what beauty is forever. And you owe so
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Speaker 1: much of your success to your mom Estelle, right, Yes,
1:21
Speaker 1: we do. Yes, you read about how her creativity and
1:25
Speaker 1: resourcefulness inspired you throughout your life. So tell us where
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Speaker 1: you're from and your mom how influential she is.
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Speaker 2: Well, we're from New York, New York. We're born in
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Speaker 2: Manhattan and moved around a lot after our father left,
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Speaker 2: and we've lived in many boroughs and upstate. And our
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Speaker 2: mother was an artist, So I think you know she
1:54
Speaker 2: thought of the name Manic Panic.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and her I think creativity and resourcefulness was inspiration
2:05
Speaker 3: to us. She always encouraged us and whatever we wanted
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Speaker 3: to do, whatever it was she was. When we were
2:16
Speaker 3: in our punk rock band, The Sick Fox, the only
2:22
Speaker 3: things she had to say was old, does it have
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Speaker 3: to be so loud?
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Speaker 1: My mother says the same thing. My mother says, you
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Speaker 1: worship the wrong gods. I said, I'm sorry, mom, rock
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Speaker 1: and roll is my religion.
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Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 1: She was able to What's really important is that she
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Speaker 1: was able to take pretty much anything and create something
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Speaker 1: out of it. There's something about a clothesline that she
2:47
Speaker 1: did she use for a clothesline.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a string to nails to put up
2:52
Speaker 2: a curtain and that curtain rod. And it wasn't easy
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Speaker 2: for someone at that time period to be single mother.
3:00
Speaker 2: It's not like now. It's actually very acceptable and a
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Speaker 2: lot more attention is given to single moms. And those days,
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Speaker 2: you were rejected by all the other mothers because they
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Speaker 2: thought you'd be after their husband probably, and you know,
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Speaker 2: you couldn't get a job that paid well like a
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Speaker 2: man could, and you know, no one even wanted to
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Speaker 2: rent to you.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really shameful. I think back then women
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Speaker 3: couldn't even have credit cards. I think that was like
3:36
Speaker 3: until the seventies, women couldn't have credit cards. So, you know,
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Speaker 3: it was shameful. When you know our mother and grandparents
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Speaker 3: would you know, talk to us. They'd say, well, if anything,
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Speaker 3: if anyone asks you where your father is or what
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Speaker 3: happened why there's no father, I say, you don't know.
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Speaker 3: That was our pat answer for any question. Have you
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Speaker 3: had lunch? I don't know.
4:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. What about her work ethic, Oh.
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Speaker 2: Well, she never stopped working. You know, she had to
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Speaker 2: take care of two little kids by herself and you know, work,
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Speaker 2: make dinner, make you know, guess dressed.
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Speaker 3: Even after we were grown, she didn't stop working. She
4:24
Speaker 3: founded the Art Therapy Art Therapy Department at the School
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Speaker 3: of Visual Arts, and she was the chairperson of the department,
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Speaker 3: and she worked right up until she got too sick
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Speaker 3: to work anymore, into her late seventies. She was a workaholic.
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Speaker 1: Like she lived long enough to see your success. She
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Speaker 1: did New York City in the seventies, different from New
4:55
Speaker 1: York City today, right rough place to live, but it
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Speaker 1: was also, as you write, a magical haven for many
5:02
Speaker 1: talk about the early punk scene and how you end
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Speaker 1: up getting your first big break, which was with the
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Speaker 1: band Blondie.
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Speaker 3: Oh, it was so much fun. It was such a
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Speaker 3: small community. Everybody knew each other and we'd all be
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Speaker 3: each other's audiences, go to each other's gigs, be each
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Speaker 3: other's fans, and it was just so much fun. And
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Speaker 3: even though it was really dangerous back then down in
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Speaker 3: the East Village, it never phased us.
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Speaker 2: No, we didn't even notice it, really. I think we
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Speaker 2: were just so comfortable and happy there. And you know,
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Speaker 2: it was a dawn of punk. It was like, you know,
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Speaker 2: we're transitioning from glam into punk. We were in a
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Speaker 2: show across the street from CBGV called The Pump Casina Review.
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Speaker 2: And let's see, Eric Emerson used to play at CBGB
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Speaker 2: and with the Magic Tramps, and he, you know, we
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Speaker 2: would run over in between our act at the Bowery
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Speaker 2: Lane Theater and do guest spots with him. And then
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Speaker 2: Debbie and Chris came to see us because friends of ours,
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Speaker 2: I think Tomato and Gorilla had told them, you know, oh,
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Speaker 2: these girls are so fabulous and you need some you know,
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Speaker 2: they were looking for some backup singers. So Chris and
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Speaker 2: Debbie came and invited us to a rehearsal, and we
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Speaker 2: went to the rehearsal and we were in the band.
6:32
Speaker 2: Some people, you know, get the facts a little mixed
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Speaker 2: up and say that we were in the Stilettos, but
6:38
Speaker 2: we were not in the original Stilettos. Later on, after
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Speaker 2: we were in Blondie, we were in the Stilettos, but
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Speaker 2: it was a later version of the Stilettos, and Debbie
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Speaker 2: wasn't in that. She was already Blondie. We had been
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Speaker 2: in Blondie first and then in the Stilettos. Okay, Debbie
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Speaker 2: was in the Stilettos and then Blondie.
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Speaker 1: So to this day you still keep in talking with
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Speaker 1: Debbie and christein.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a photo exhibit opening. I think that
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Speaker 3: was in September, and it was an exhibit of his
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Speaker 3: photos of Clem Burke. It's really cool and so it
7:17
Speaker 3: was good to see him.
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Speaker 2: It's good to see him, good to see the photos
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Speaker 2: of Clem. And we actually helped. We were there auditioning
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Speaker 2: when Clem first came. You know, we were part of
7:29
Speaker 2: the hiring you were part of the hiring committee there,
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Speaker 2: and you know we thought, you know, wow, he's like
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Speaker 2: he's not only you know, really amazing drummer, but you know,
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Speaker 2: he's good looking and you know he was perfect, had
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Speaker 2: great shoes, and he like had the attitude and everything.
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Speaker 2: So he was just perfect.
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Speaker 1: Well you mentioned that word attitude. I can imagine the
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Speaker 1: energy in the room at these clubs, right with all
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Speaker 1: these artists, very sincere, very pure. They're not there to
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Speaker 1: become rich and famous. This is just who they are
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Speaker 1: and it's that raw energy.
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Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and that's exactly how it was. I'm
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Speaker 3: so glad we got to be there and be a
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Speaker 3: part of it, because I don't think anything like that'll
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Speaker 3: ever happen again.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we were all kind of inspired by,
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Speaker 2: like you know, Iggy and the Stooges and stuff like that.
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Speaker 2: We before the punk scene. We would we still loved
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Speaker 2: rock and roll, of course, and we were our taste
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Speaker 2: was like a little different from most of the people.
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Speaker 2: We were living in the Bronx at the time. Our
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Speaker 2: taste was a little bit different from most because we
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Speaker 2: like Captain Beefheart, and we liked Iggy and the Stooges
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Speaker 2: and bands like that, And we got to see Iggy
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Speaker 2: at the Electric Circus, and you know that was like,
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Speaker 2: you know, raw power. It was way before raw power,
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Speaker 2: but it was raw power, and it was inspirational to
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Speaker 2: people like us and New York Dolls and all these
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Speaker 2: you know, cool bands that were there before us were inspirational.
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Speaker 1: The stories of the time that you were in Blondie's
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Speaker 1: band in the book are great. You crashed a party
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Speaker 1: that had Rod Stewart and Robert Plant in.
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Speaker 3: It, all these rock stars, and first they weren't letting
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Speaker 3: us in, and we had driven up in Debbie's little car.
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Speaker 3: All of us jammed into this little car and at
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Speaker 3: first say, I think we were with Jerry Nolan.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I think Jerry.
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Speaker 3: And they said, well, only Jerry is invited, not the
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Speaker 3: rest of you. So they like set the door on
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Speaker 3: us and left us outside. We were like outside circling
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Speaker 3: the houses. I think, all these people, and then I
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Speaker 3: think we sneak in the band somehow we got in.
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Speaker 3: I think Debbie and Chris went first, and then we
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Speaker 3: followed meekly behind them. And yeah, there were all these
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Speaker 3: rock stars there and it was just amazing.
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Speaker 1: And what was the manager of the New York Dallas
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Speaker 1: said Blondie. That's a terrible name for a band, right.
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think that was.
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Speaker 2: Said that our name sucked and we should change it
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Speaker 2: from Blondie. We'd never make it with a name like Blondie.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yes, I turned out.
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Speaker 2: And by the way, in the early days of CBGB,
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Speaker 2: like sometimes those clubs would be empty, you know, we'd
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Speaker 2: be like playing to like five people or something.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: It was like, which was great. It was like kind
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Speaker 2: of having a you know, on stage rehearsal in our
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Speaker 2: own little clubhouse.
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Speaker 1: Debbie Harry tell us a little bit about her. She's
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Speaker 1: she's really looked at as that woman of strength and
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Speaker 1: an inspiration to so many and what was yeah, what
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Speaker 1: was she like? What was her personality like? It seemed
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Speaker 1: like she was really fun to hang out with.
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Speaker 3: She was she was really good natured.
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Speaker 1: And you guys used to go and pick out clothes, right,
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Speaker 1: You go to various stores and shops, brists, shops.
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Speaker 2: We never we never bought retail. We were like, you know,
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Speaker 2: all too poor for that. So we would go to
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Speaker 2: thrift shops in Jersey because you know, she was from Jersey,
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Speaker 2: and we'd go to the thrift shops she knew. And
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Speaker 2: then we would go to the thrift shops in the Bronx,
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Speaker 2: the ones we knew and find some really silly stuff
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Speaker 2: to wear. We'd always like, you know, want to wear
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Speaker 2: something new if we could, and we just find some
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Speaker 2: really crazy things, like were those cold job job pers joppers?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we found all these jobpers and so.
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Speaker 2: I must still have them somewhere. I think I still
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Speaker 2: have mine.
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Speaker 3: But yeah, there were those writing breches and we all
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Speaker 3: wore those. I think I even had the hat. Oh,
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Speaker 3: and you know, we would just wear whatever we thought
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Speaker 3: was funny and fun. And you know, she was really
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Speaker 3: good natured and went along with any wacky ideas we had,
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Speaker 3: like oh, let's throw in a tap dance.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. She was open to anything. Yeah, it was and.
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Speaker 2: She always has been. She's and I think that's the
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Speaker 2: beauty of Debbie is that she's you know, open to
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Speaker 2: anything and will try anything. So and that's great because otherwise,
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Speaker 2: you know, you just kind of get stuck in the
12:48
Speaker 2: same hole that everyone else is in. And you know,
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Speaker 2: she ventured out and found her own sound and found
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Speaker 2: her own, you know, place in the music industry fantastic.
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Speaker 1: And as performers yourselves, did you since when you first
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Speaker 1: saw her that she had that presence on stage? She
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Speaker 1: had that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she definitely had She definitely had a presence, and
13:12
Speaker 2: you know she was of course gorgeous, and you know,
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Speaker 2: had it way more together than we did. We were
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Speaker 2: a little bit younger and more naive. I guess.
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Speaker 1: Was she like a big sister to be able to
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Speaker 1: kind of protect you a little bit? I look out
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Speaker 1: for look out for these guys.
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Speaker 2: Any of us needed protecting?
13:32
Speaker 1: You were just fine on your own.
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Speaker 2: No, we were okay, we didn't need protecting. But she,
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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you know, she was as Stickie said,
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Speaker 2: real easy going, and you know, we kind of all
13:44
Speaker 2: just went We're all good natured, and we all just
13:47
Speaker 2: went with the flow.
13:50
Speaker 1: Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
13:52
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14:18
Speaker 1: show notes, or just go to Booked on Rock dot
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Speaker 1: com and click on my deals. You played CBGB and
14:24
Speaker 1: Max's Kansas City to legendary clubs. For those who've never
14:28
Speaker 1: been there, what's the atmosphere like in those those clubs?
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Speaker 2: In those days, it looked like you'd be walking into
14:34
Speaker 2: a fog, but it was cigarette smoke. You know, smelled
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Speaker 2: like beer and cigarettes, and you know it's down in
14:44
Speaker 2: dirty and you know, if you could avoid going to
14:47
Speaker 2: the bathroom, you would.
14:51
Speaker 3: A little like a Fellini movie with all these interesting characters.
14:56
Speaker 3: I'm sure lots of different ages too. It wasn't just
15:00
Speaker 3: you know, youngsters, was all ages really cool and interesting.
15:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. The same with Max's. That was another club that
15:08
Speaker 2: you know, you'd have way before anyway talked about club kids,
15:14
Speaker 2: you know, which was a term invented I guess in
15:18
Speaker 2: the late eighties early nineties somewhere around there. You know,
15:23
Speaker 2: there were club kids back then. Like you know, I
15:26
Speaker 2: remember going there under age to Max's and there was
15:32
Speaker 2: somebody even younger than us, like Charles Charles and he
15:35
Speaker 2: would go to Max's and he was what fifteen or something,
15:40
Speaker 2: And then there'd be other people who are way older
15:43
Speaker 2: than us at the time, they seemed way older. Yeah,
15:47
Speaker 2: Lee Childers and people like that. You know, there was
15:54
Speaker 2: a range with the Warhack Ross Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. What other clubs we did you really like going to?
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Speaker 1: Those are the two big ones.
16:02
Speaker 3: But there was the eighty two Club, which was an
16:05
Speaker 3: after hours club on Second Avenue and maybe around Second Street.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was an old like drag club that
16:16
Speaker 2: our mother actually went to when all of our father's
16:20
Speaker 2: Argentine friends came in.
16:23
Speaker 3: It was like a speakeas you went down this long
16:25
Speaker 3: flight of stairs. Wasn't on street level, it was downstairs
16:30
Speaker 3: and it was sort of like you know the movie Cabaret.
16:34
Speaker 1: It's so cool, like little.
16:35
Speaker 2: Booths and a stage, and you know, sometimes it would
16:40
Speaker 2: get since it was an after hours club, it would
16:43
Speaker 2: get raided and you'd have to go out the back
16:45
Speaker 2: door and through the building, you know, And there were
16:48
Speaker 2: two people at the door, Tommy and Butch, who were women,
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Speaker 2: but they looked exactly like And then they'd have the
17:02
Speaker 2: drag shows with the men that looked like women.
17:05
Speaker 3: And Payne County, Wayne County at the time, would play
17:10
Speaker 3: there a lot.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't really do the drag shows anymore
17:14
Speaker 2: when they turned it into a rock and roll club.
17:17
Speaker 2: But you know, it was typical to see Jane play
17:20
Speaker 2: there in the dolls and stuff.
17:22
Speaker 1: What is it now? What became of it?
17:25
Speaker 2: I know we should buy it might be an apartment
17:30
Speaker 2: or something. It's probably somebody's apartment. It was a cool pool.
17:35
Speaker 3: It was.
17:35
Speaker 2: So he would run into the weirdest people there, like
17:39
Speaker 2: Follered when I was there, and he he.
17:44
Speaker 3: Just took a shine to us and latched onto us
17:47
Speaker 3: for the night, and we took them up to our
17:51
Speaker 3: Bronx apartment.
17:54
Speaker 2: And then took him out drinking in the Irish bars
17:56
Speaker 2: because they were opened. By the you know, time we
17:58
Speaker 2: finished clubbing, the Irish bars had opened. People were going
18:02
Speaker 2: to work, and yeah it was fun.
18:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I can imagine now this is what mid
18:08
Speaker 1: to late seventies, yeah, early okay, mid to late seventies.
18:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah that At.
18:15
Speaker 1: That time, fashion and beauty trends were kind of morphing
18:19
Speaker 1: somewhere between like glam and punk, right, a lot of experimentation.
18:23
Speaker 2: Yes, and you know you were like transcended, transitioning from
18:28
Speaker 2: your platform shoes into spike heeled you know, pointy toad
18:33
Speaker 2: stilettos and stuff, and the stripper shoes those what do
18:37
Speaker 2: you call them spring laighters and things like that, and
18:41
Speaker 2: from glam a little more greaser, kind of rebel without
18:48
Speaker 2: a cause for the guys. You know, they kind of
18:50
Speaker 2: looked greasy and cool, and you know the girls had
18:56
Speaker 2: teased hair, big teased hair and stuff. It was you know,
19:01
Speaker 2: it was kind of cool. It was like it wasn't
19:04
Speaker 2: the way it was in England where it was so defined.
19:07
Speaker 2: It was more of a melting pot of fashion. Like
19:12
Speaker 2: there would be some people who would you know, dress
19:15
Speaker 2: mod and there were some people who addressed greasy and
19:18
Speaker 2: some rockabilly. Yeah, it was all over the place. But
19:23
Speaker 2: you know, everybody had their own look and everybody was like,
19:28
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was fun. A lot of a
19:33
Speaker 2: lot of talent, like with the you know people. Anya
19:37
Speaker 2: Phillips was you know, always looked great and did some
19:42
Speaker 2: stuff for Debbie. She did some some of her outfits.
19:46
Speaker 2: And there was Natasha, and there was of course us,
19:49
Speaker 2: you know, so there were designers on the scene.
19:53
Speaker 1: Let's get to this store. Now, when you open this
19:55
Speaker 1: store up, you did mention your mom is behind that
19:58
Speaker 1: name Manic Panic. So what led you to opening your
20:01
Speaker 1: own store? And then what are the origins of the
20:03
Speaker 1: name Manic Panic.
20:04
Speaker 3: Well, would we be out on the town every night.
20:08
Speaker 3: People loved our style and wanted to know where they
20:11
Speaker 3: could buy whatever it was we were wearing. And we thought,
20:15
Speaker 3: oh well, let's open a store and sell our look
20:19
Speaker 3: and sell what we like. And it it didn't occur
20:24
Speaker 3: to us. We had no business training. We just thought
20:29
Speaker 3: we would do it. And it was easy back then,
20:32
Speaker 3: easier than I think it is today to like rent
20:36
Speaker 3: a store fund. It was only two hundred and fifty
20:38
Speaker 3: dollars a month, and you know, but like we could
20:43
Speaker 3: barely scrape that together every month, but somehow we managed
20:49
Speaker 3: because we were living at home with our mother and
20:53
Speaker 3: didn't have a lot of overhead, and we just put
20:55
Speaker 3: every penny we made back into the business. And yeah,
21:02
Speaker 3: it it gradually took off and people started hearing about.
21:10
Speaker 3: We got so much press because it was the first
21:12
Speaker 3: punk store in America, so like every newspaper, magazine and
21:17
Speaker 3: TV station covered our grand opening, and ye know, we
21:22
Speaker 3: had hardly anything to sell.
21:24
Speaker 1: How amazing was that, though, I mean it wasn't amazing
21:27
Speaker 1: then that kind of attention, that that kind of publicity, Yeah,
21:31
Speaker 1: I know, it's hard to come by.
21:33
Speaker 2: All over the world because it was the first punk
21:35
Speaker 2: store in America and.
21:36
Speaker 1: Did the location, by the way, was for the first.
21:39
Speaker 2: Store Marks Place. And we even had like Italian Vogue
21:47
Speaker 2: came and borrowed a bunch of shirts from us T
21:50
Speaker 2: shirts and did a whole shoot with them, and you know,
21:55
Speaker 2: had all like a bunch of the Warhol characters and
21:58
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol himself and they were all wearing our T
22:03
Speaker 2: shirts that we had made, and it was so cool.
22:06
Speaker 2: We got such great.
22:08
Speaker 1: Pr Yeah, and the name manic Panic. What's the story
22:11
Speaker 1: behind that.
22:12
Speaker 2: Our mother worked. She was originally a greeting card and
22:19
Speaker 2: book designer artist, and then after I guess after a
22:27
Speaker 2: while she couldn't really make enough money to support us
22:30
Speaker 2: on that, so she went back to school and became
22:35
Speaker 2: an occupational therapist and then an art therapist in the
22:42
Speaker 2: psychiatric hospitals. And she said, sometimes the patients would go
22:49
Speaker 2: into a manic panic, So she thought that would be
22:53
Speaker 2: a great name for our store because we couldn't think
22:55
Speaker 2: of anything.
22:56
Speaker 1: It's perfect, Yeah, it's perfect. Perfect. There's a quote in
23:01
Speaker 1: the book from Edgar Allan Poe there's no exquisite beauty
23:06
Speaker 1: without some strangeness in the proportion. What a quote tell
23:11
Speaker 1: us about your stylistic approach, what you were looking for
23:15
Speaker 1: at that time, what you're looking for when designing the
23:18
Speaker 1: perfect look for a band. As far as clothing and hairstyle.
23:22
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, one of the things that I find,
23:29
Speaker 2: I guess a little bit strange to me is you
23:32
Speaker 2: know why anyone would need anyone to tell them what
23:36
Speaker 2: to wear? Because you know, I think all my life
23:40
Speaker 2: I've known what to wear, and you know, I remember
23:46
Speaker 2: my mother having to pay me money to put on
23:48
Speaker 2: a pair of brown pants because I hated them so much.
23:52
Speaker 2: And you know, some people don't need a little guy. Yeah,
23:57
Speaker 2: it's really hard for us to like conceived that you
24:00
Speaker 2: would need that because everybody is so individual and usually
24:05
Speaker 2: they find their look just the way like Richard Hell,
24:09
Speaker 2: you know, with his really spiky, bad haircut because he
24:13
Speaker 2: probably couldn't afford to go to the barber and you know,
24:16
Speaker 2: just cut it off. And uh, you know the T
24:18
Speaker 2: shirts that were practically, you know, rotting on people's backs
24:23
Speaker 2: because they couldn't afford a new one or whatever. You know,
24:26
Speaker 2: everything kind of became style. But you know we did.
24:30
Speaker 2: We were one of the few stores that actually were
24:33
Speaker 2: nice to people. And if somebody came in and, you know,
24:38
Speaker 2: needed our help, we would definitely help them. But you know,
24:42
Speaker 2: it really helps to see the band and hear the
24:46
Speaker 2: music to know what somebody should look like on stage,
24:50
Speaker 2: I guess that's my opinion.
24:52
Speaker 1: And encourage them to just be themselves and find their
24:55
Speaker 1: own look. Because most people do follow trends. Most people
24:58
Speaker 1: feel safe and secure by dressing up like everybody else,
25:04
Speaker 1: but it.
25:05
Speaker 2: Many times, not all, not everyone can see through it.
25:09
Speaker 2: But like, I'm not going to mention any names, but
25:13
Speaker 2: like certain bands I would look at and I would say,
25:17
Speaker 2: that is so wrong, you know, like you know somebody
25:21
Speaker 2: who's just not like a I don't know, like a
25:26
Speaker 2: certain type of person like with like let's say, maybe
25:29
Speaker 2: not a weak character, but somebody with you know who
25:33
Speaker 2: isn't like a strong character, let's say, and then they're
25:37
Speaker 2: they're wearing like well, spike bracelets or you know this
25:40
Speaker 2: and that, and they just just kind of stinks, it
25:43
Speaker 2: doesn't look right.
25:44
Speaker 1: Or here's an example, when you had all the hair
25:46
Speaker 1: metal bands and then we turned into the nineties the
25:48
Speaker 1: grun scene, and all of a sudden you're seeing some
25:50
Speaker 1: of these guys that all of a sudden look like
25:53
Speaker 1: a grunge rocker, and you're just thinking, that's not you. Yeah,
25:57
Speaker 1: you know, that's not who you are.
25:59
Speaker 2: Keep your mask scare.
26:01
Speaker 1: Right, But yeah, but there is is there a fear
26:06
Speaker 1: of people are afraid to dress the way they want
26:08
Speaker 1: to dress because they're afraid they might I don't know,
26:11
Speaker 1: maybe they won't be accepted or because that that seems
26:14
Speaker 1: to be the case. And but but if you do
26:16
Speaker 1: that and this is who you are, you end up
26:19
Speaker 1: setting trends rather than following.
26:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And I think I think if you're true
26:28
Speaker 2: to yourself, you'll find your look. And it might it
26:31
Speaker 2: might not be that exciting or whatever, but if you know,
26:38
Speaker 2: but I do agree that like where I will tell
26:42
Speaker 2: people what to do is like if somebody would come
26:45
Speaker 2: into our store and say, does this look good? I
26:49
Speaker 2: might say no and hand them something else, because like
26:53
Speaker 2: you know, if you know, you if something doesn't look
26:58
Speaker 2: good on you, you should wear And I would never
27:01
Speaker 2: encourage anyone to wear something that didn't flatter them. And
27:07
Speaker 2: you know that I think some people really can't see that.
27:12
Speaker 2: They can't see that they're wearing something that isn't flattering.
27:15
Speaker 2: Like if you know you have like you know, arms
27:18
Speaker 2: that are very flabby or whatever, you know, you don't
27:22
Speaker 2: want to wear short sleeves. You want to wear longer
27:24
Speaker 2: sleeves or something you know that covers them, just little
27:29
Speaker 2: basics or like you know, somebody with different proportions, People
27:35
Speaker 2: with different proportions look good in different things. So I
27:38
Speaker 2: would always encourage people to you know, look as good
27:42
Speaker 2: as they can and you know, help them, you know,
27:45
Speaker 2: decide on hair colors and cosmetics and you know, because
27:51
Speaker 2: you know, we learned so much by being in the
27:54
Speaker 2: Palm Casina Review and other shows you know, we had.
27:59
Speaker 2: There were a lot of drag queens they would call
28:03
Speaker 2: it back then in the Palm Casino Review, and they
28:07
Speaker 2: taught us so much about makeup and hair and everything
28:11
Speaker 2: that we learned a lot from them, and we learned
28:13
Speaker 2: a lot from Debbie. She was really good at her
28:16
Speaker 2: makeup and hair. And then we passed it on to
28:21
Speaker 2: our customers who might need help. You know, like somebody
28:25
Speaker 2: would pick out a lipstick and you know that would
28:29
Speaker 2: just totally not go with their skin tone or their
28:35
Speaker 2: you know, their look or you know there maybe they
28:38
Speaker 2: take a really dark color and they have really tiny lips,
28:40
Speaker 2: and if that's what they're going for, then that's okay.
28:43
Speaker 2: But you know, if if they're not sure, you know,
28:46
Speaker 2: we would help them with their.
28:48
Speaker 1: Looks, which is what the book is. Part of your story,
28:53
Speaker 1: but also it's a guide to it's a rebellious guide
28:58
Speaker 1: to their color in life, right, yeah, Titian Snookie Blomo,
29:03
Speaker 1: the authors of Manic Panic, Living in Color, A Rebellious
29:05
Speaker 1: Guide to Hair, Color and Life. All right, talk about
29:08
Speaker 1: the artists and the bands who came into the store
29:10
Speaker 1: when it opened up, members of the Ramones, Patty Smith
29:13
Speaker 1: dropped by B fifty two's Mick Jagger, and Jerry Hall
29:16
Speaker 1: stop by everybody.
29:18
Speaker 3: Everybody came there, and people you would never expect, like
29:23
Speaker 3: Tony kurkis right came to our store and share, and
29:28
Speaker 3: Paul Simon with Harry.
29:33
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live cast members were there.
29:35
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they loved us, would invite us
29:39
Speaker 2: to parties stuff. And you know, the sign was in
29:43
Speaker 2: one of the Saturday Night Live.
29:45
Speaker 1: Yes uh season with the nineteen eighty season.
29:49
Speaker 3: That sounds right right.
29:51
Speaker 1: Did you know about that or is this once again
29:54
Speaker 1: just publicity it's coming.
29:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, We're sitting there watching and went, what but all
30:00
Speaker 4: these things and it just seemed to like happen and
30:03
Speaker 4: it seemed like, yeah, that makes sense, it's cool.
30:06
Speaker 3: You know, we just sort of took it in stride
30:10
Speaker 3: and we never like were pushing to get like our
30:15
Speaker 3: store in the opening credits of Saturday Night Live. But
30:20
Speaker 3: then when it was we thought.
30:21
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but that's what's amazing because so many business
30:25
Speaker 1: owners are they're begging for that type of So when
30:30
Speaker 1: you got all this publicity, the business was starting to
30:33
Speaker 1: pick up. Was it becoming to the point where it
30:36
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, you know, this is getting crazy, Like
30:38
Speaker 1: did you have a staff? I mean, was it getting
30:42
Speaker 1: it must have gotten pretty busy.
30:44
Speaker 3: We did, and we realized, oh my god, this is
30:48
Speaker 3: like this is really amazing.
30:51
Speaker 1: We need some help here.
30:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we still didn't have a cash register. You know,
30:56
Speaker 2: we had a Louis Sherry box.
30:58
Speaker 3: Wow Bucks that we have to this day.
31:02
Speaker 2: We still have it. Yeah, and we had I think
31:05
Speaker 2: Howie Pyro was our first employee, and I think we
31:11
Speaker 2: paid it about I think it was six dollars a day.
31:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was like fourteen or something. I think
31:17
Speaker 3: he was, you know, going to school and he got
31:20
Speaker 3: out of school by saying, you know, he was working
31:23
Speaker 3: in retail and so he got school credit for working
31:28
Speaker 3: at our store. But I mean we could barely scrape
31:32
Speaker 3: together the six dollars to pay him.
31:35
Speaker 2: I had it with three of us.
31:36
Speaker 3: We had a.
31:36
Speaker 2: Partner at the time, our partners Nina, and you know,
31:40
Speaker 2: between the three of us, it's two dollars each.
31:44
Speaker 3: But sometimes we wouldn't make a penny all day. Sometimes
31:48
Speaker 3: not one person came in the store, and sometimes we'd
31:51
Speaker 3: make fifty cents if we stole like a button.
31:56
Speaker 1: And you know when did the money start coming in?
32:00
Speaker 2: Wonder about maybe a year and a half, a year,
32:03
Speaker 2: a year and a half.
32:05
Speaker 3: After a few months, you know, we had been getting
32:07
Speaker 3: all this publicity, so people started coming and then we
32:10
Speaker 3: could invest more and more in inventory, and it just snowballed.
32:17
Speaker 3: And then you know, in the eighties it was really
32:21
Speaker 3: taking off, and then in the nineties and we've always
32:24
Speaker 3: been just like trying to keep up learning a new
32:27
Speaker 3: job every day to this day. We're still learning.
32:31
Speaker 1: Really still learning.
32:33
Speaker 3: For example, well, you know what with the AI and
32:38
Speaker 3: oh yes, yes, oh my god.
32:41
Speaker 1: All that advertising the business side of things, right, I
32:44
Speaker 1: mean that kind of probably became a little overwhelming. Bookkeeping
32:48
Speaker 1: and all these things, right that you had.
32:49
Speaker 3: To yes, yes, you should see our original books.
32:54
Speaker 1: Tax season, tax season like did you dread tax season?
32:57
Speaker 5: Like?
32:58
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh we still do well?
33:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, can stand it? I can't well.
33:06
Speaker 3: And you know that the money part and the numbers
33:10
Speaker 3: part has never been our forte not our strongest. Yeah,
33:15
Speaker 3: we're good at like making it, making money, but we're
33:21
Speaker 3: not so good at like the accounting.
33:26
Speaker 2: Hire people. You know people, other people are really good
33:30
Speaker 2: at that so right to hire people that are better
33:34
Speaker 2: than you at certain things. And I think you know,
33:37
Speaker 2: we're we're good at the creative ent and you know,
33:42
Speaker 2: uh maybe the social media and.
33:47
Speaker 1: That's the other thing. Social media is the other. But
33:50
Speaker 1: hiring people that you can trust, right, I mean that's
33:53
Speaker 1: the Yeah.
33:54
Speaker 3: And we've made such terrible mistakes trusting the wrong people.
33:59
Speaker 3: We've you know, oh, we've got some great people now,
34:03
Speaker 3: but you haven't always been that.
34:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, But that's the only way you learn.
34:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, all we learned.
34:09
Speaker 2: We learned the hard. We're really old, but we're still learning. Yeah,
34:15
Speaker 2: I mean we You have to hire people who get it.
34:20
Speaker 2: They have to be people who get it and understand
34:23
Speaker 2: what you're doing and why you're doing it. If you don't.
34:27
Speaker 2: If they don't, then it's just feudle. It's like you know,
34:31
Speaker 2: the we have some people now who really get it
34:37
Speaker 2: and they get us. And the ones that have worked
34:40
Speaker 2: out the best usually are you know, even if they're
34:43
Speaker 2: in bookkeeping or whatever, they they're creative. So you want
34:48
Speaker 2: to have so they.
34:49
Speaker 1: Get it right, they get it. Hey, guys, thanks so
34:55
Speaker 1: much for checking out the book down Rock podcast. If
34:58
Speaker 1: you've just found the podcast, welcome, if you've been listening,
35:01
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
35:03
Speaker 1: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
35:06
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35:09
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35:12
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Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
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Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
35:28
Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
35:31
Speaker 1: to the show. You mentioned some of these names, Bill Murray,
35:35
Speaker 1: Paul Simon, Meryl Streep, Tony Curtis. You mentioned the Blues
35:39
Speaker 1: brothers John Belushi and dan Aykroyd would pull up in
35:42
Speaker 1: the Bluesmobile, Springsteen, Annie Lennox, Carrie Fisher, and you did
35:48
Speaker 1: mention share. Now, when she came into the store, you
35:50
Speaker 1: didn't recognize her, You didn't know it was her.
35:52
Speaker 3: I didn't even look up because it was such a
35:55
Speaker 3: hot day in the middle of summer. We had no
35:59
Speaker 3: air condition and I was just sitting there by myself.
36:03
Speaker 3: No one was coming in, and then this, you know,
36:05
Speaker 3: limo pulls up, and this woman dressed to the nines,
36:10
Speaker 3: you know, the hair and the thigh high boots and miniskirt,
36:14
Speaker 3: you know, walks in and I'm thinking, oh god, who
36:17
Speaker 3: is this chick from New Jersey? Old dressed up to
36:20
Speaker 3: go shopping on a day like this well had air conditioning.
36:28
Speaker 3: And then you know, then she I didn't even get up,
36:32
Speaker 3: and then she asked me a question and I recognized the.
36:35
Speaker 1: Voice, the voice right, I snapped.
36:38
Speaker 3: To attention and you know, helped her with She She
36:42
Speaker 3: bought some makeup and one of Tisha's original dress designs
36:48
Speaker 3: and a Sick Fox T shirt, nice, like a giant
36:53
Speaker 3: sized one. And I said, oh, were you a fan
36:55
Speaker 3: of the band? And she said, oh, I just like
36:58
Speaker 3: the T shirt.
37:01
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
37:02
Speaker 3: Now.
37:02
Speaker 1: Just as interesting as the famous people were the interesting
37:06
Speaker 1: characters off the street. The East village had some pretty
37:09
Speaker 1: interesting people, like the guy that liked to roll up
37:12
Speaker 1: into a rug. Please, oh my god, tell us about
37:16
Speaker 1: this guy.
37:17
Speaker 3: He's still around, it's still at it.
37:20
Speaker 2: Some people who worked for us said that they, you know,
37:24
Speaker 2: they started telling us about this weird guy who's like
37:27
Speaker 2: rolled up in a carpet, and we said, is his
37:30
Speaker 2: name Kevin, and it was and he liked.
37:35
Speaker 1: So he liked to roll up into a rug and
37:38
Speaker 1: then he rolls.
37:39
Speaker 2: Up into a carpet.
37:40
Speaker 3: But I think it's because he needs questioning, so for
37:43
Speaker 3: his older bones, he needs a carpet to protect him.
37:47
Speaker 2: But in our day, in our day, there was no
37:50
Speaker 2: carpet on the floor. We come in and I don't
37:55
Speaker 2: know whether he paid some of the people who worked
37:57
Speaker 2: for us or they just.
37:59
Speaker 3: You know what have He told him that he was
38:01
Speaker 3: doing a project for his acting class and he had
38:04
Speaker 3: to be an inanimate object, so he chose to be
38:08
Speaker 3: a floor and could he just lie on the floor
38:10
Speaker 3: and you know, people would walk on.
38:12
Speaker 2: Him, and god, so he just walked in and.
38:19
Speaker 3: There's one of our employees perched on this guy's back
38:22
Speaker 3: and she's like tagging the clothes on the rack.
38:27
Speaker 1: It's performance art.
38:28
Speaker 2: It was, yes, what is he doing here studying acting?
38:37
Speaker 2: I said, uh uh, oh, my god. There was a
38:42
Speaker 2: guy who used to come in and asked to try
38:46
Speaker 2: on the same shoe over and over and he would
38:51
Speaker 2: never buy it.
38:51
Speaker 3: It was a pair of giant sized black pat and
38:55
Speaker 3: leather Mary Jane's with a little strap, little flat like
38:59
Speaker 3: a like a little girl would wear, and he'd try
39:03
Speaker 3: them on, like at least once a week.
39:06
Speaker 2: We were like, you know, going crazy, but you know,
39:09
Speaker 2: we were so polite. We would bring him the shoe
39:11
Speaker 2: and let him try it.
39:12
Speaker 3: On because we only had one of each pair of
39:15
Speaker 3: shoes out because otherwise people would walk out with the pair,
39:19
Speaker 3: they would steal them one out, so then we have
39:22
Speaker 3: to go and find the other shoe, which was a
39:25
Speaker 3: big production. We come out with the other shoe and
39:29
Speaker 3: he'd try them on and france around and then not
39:33
Speaker 3: buy them.
39:35
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you had some kind of a shoe fetish, right.
39:39
Speaker 2: And at one time, I think I had left my
39:43
Speaker 2: boyfriend at the time to work at the store because
39:47
Speaker 2: we had to go someplace. And he came in and
39:52
Speaker 2: the guy came in and asked for the shoe, and
39:55
Speaker 2: my boyfriend knew the whole story, and it says, I'll
40:00
Speaker 2: take it down for you. I'll let you try on
40:01
Speaker 2: the shoe, but you've got to buy them. We're sick
40:04
Speaker 2: of this. If I bring it down, you're gonna buy it. Right,
40:09
Speaker 2: he bought the shoes.
40:10
Speaker 1: He bought the shoes. Oh my god, I.
40:13
Speaker 3: Think they were only nine ninety nine, but he finally
40:19
Speaker 3: was sprung for them.
40:21
Speaker 2: Who did them?
40:24
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Cindy Lauper. She gave Manic Panic
40:28
Speaker 1: huge exposure. When did you first meet Cindy and tell
40:31
Speaker 1: us about your relationship with her?
40:33
Speaker 3: We were opening for her at Irving Plaza, and but
40:39
Speaker 3: she was opening too, because it wasn't it wasn't her night,
40:42
Speaker 3: it was we're both opening for It.
40:45
Speaker 2: Was either badness or specials or some.
40:48
Speaker 1: Kind of So she hadn't blown up yet, she hadn't
40:51
Speaker 1: gotten famous yet.
40:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was still in Blue Angel. Okay, I think
40:57
Speaker 2: because she gave us the album. Oh, I think she
41:01
Speaker 2: was still in Blue Angel. And so it was like,
41:04
Speaker 2: you know, so.
41:06
Speaker 3: If you came in and introduced yourself into our dressroom
41:09
Speaker 3: and said you heard so much about us, and she
41:12
Speaker 3: was so happy to meet us.
41:13
Speaker 2: And we had a band called the pin Ups at
41:15
Speaker 2: the time, and we really sucked that night. We were
41:18
Speaker 2: so bad.
41:22
Speaker 3: You know, she was great. And then you know, she
41:27
Speaker 3: started coming in the store and she was always so
41:32
Speaker 3: nice and started experimenting with the hair color because she
41:39
Speaker 3: was blonde when we met her, and then she has
41:42
Speaker 3: been practically every shade.
41:44
Speaker 2: And yeah, we remember her saying, oh, I wish I
41:47
Speaker 2: could do that to my hair and said, when you can,
41:51
Speaker 2: you can, and she finally did it, and it like
41:54
Speaker 2: really I think it really helped her career.
42:00
Speaker 1: That she had the look she had the look of
42:02
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, yeah, some perfect time with NTV the
42:07
Speaker 1: videos and yeah.
42:09
Speaker 2: And she she mentioned us, you know, in interviews and
42:13
Speaker 2: stuff like that. You know, so you know, she's done
42:16
Speaker 2: so much for us over the years. She really has.
42:19
Speaker 3: Still to this day, if she ever needs a hair color,
42:22
Speaker 3: we'll we'll deliver.
42:24
Speaker 1: What led to the original location closing in nineteen eighty nine,
42:27
Speaker 1: and then how did that lead to the new venture
42:30
Speaker 1: in the nineties.
42:31
Speaker 3: Our landlord, you know, not renewing our lease. There's still
42:37
Speaker 3: to this day no commercial rent protection. And it's such
42:41
Speaker 3: a disgrace that still in this day and age. I
42:44
Speaker 3: was watching a show about these businesses in Brooklyn and
42:48
Speaker 3: these like old Italian guys, and you know, there's they're
42:54
Speaker 3: talking about no commercial rent protection and it's so hard
42:58
Speaker 3: to run a small business. And it was so hard
43:02
Speaker 3: back then. And it's really hard when there's they can
43:06
Speaker 3: quadruple you, quadruple your rent, and you know, if you
43:10
Speaker 3: don't want to pay it, you get kicked out. So
43:13
Speaker 3: when our lease was up, our new landlord, who had
43:16
Speaker 3: just put the building, said, you know, I'm not renewing
43:19
Speaker 3: your lease in. You have two weeks to get out.
43:23
Speaker 3: And so we'd been there twelve years and we were
43:26
Speaker 3: in denial that we'd ever have to leave. So we like,
43:29
Speaker 3: we were so traumatized. We hadn't even been looking for
43:33
Speaker 3: spaces or anything. So we just closed up shop and
43:37
Speaker 3: put everything in storage and then moved our wholesale business
43:41
Speaker 3: into my boyfriend at the time now he's my husband,
43:45
Speaker 3: into his studio apartment, which was really tiny and it
43:49
Speaker 3: was what three or four flights up.
43:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like maybe three.
43:53
Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty square feet or something, and we had
43:57
Speaker 3: hair color piled up to the ceiling and we'd just
44:01
Speaker 3: be there and it was the orders and taking the
44:04
Speaker 3: orders on the phone and invoicing and packing and then
44:09
Speaker 3: driving the orders up to ups at the end of
44:11
Speaker 3: the day.
44:13
Speaker 2: It was really lucky that we started doing a little
44:16
Speaker 2: bit of wholesale while we were, you know, still in
44:20
Speaker 2: our retail space, because if we hadn't had the wholesale,
44:25
Speaker 2: we would have been kind of screwed.
44:29
Speaker 3: And we were forced to focus on the wholesale. And
44:33
Speaker 3: it had been you know, we were doing it. But
44:35
Speaker 3: then when we weren't in the retail store chasing shoplifters
44:40
Speaker 3: down the street, we were you know, forced to focus
44:43
Speaker 3: on wholesale. And it was the best thing that ever
44:45
Speaker 3: happened to us. And then we started doing trade shows,
44:50
Speaker 3: and then we moved onto back onto Saint Mark's Place,
44:56
Speaker 3: into a little space. And then because we were promise star,
45:00
Speaker 3: landlord said, because I had said to him, we were
45:04
Speaker 3: on like the ground floor. Actually we were a couple
45:08
Speaker 3: of steps down, but it was considered like you know,
45:10
Speaker 3: street level basically, and originally the building had a stairway
45:16
Speaker 3: going up and the two first apartments were storefronts.
45:23
Speaker 2: So I said to him, I said, why don't you just,
45:28
Speaker 2: you know, make the two apartments there that are empty
45:32
Speaker 2: back into storefronts and put the stairway back up.
45:35
Speaker 3: And give us one of the storefronts. We'll go upstairs
45:39
Speaker 3: as our store and then maybe we could afford the rent.
45:44
Speaker 2: So he figured out a rent and we said, yeah,
45:45
Speaker 2: that sounds great. We said, well it's going to take
45:47
Speaker 2: about three months, you know, so you put all our
45:49
Speaker 2: stuff in storage and then three months went by, six months,
45:55
Speaker 2: went by nine months, like twelve months. Still wasn't ready.
45:59
Speaker 2: And then when it was finally ready, he said, oh,
46:03
Speaker 2: I want more money. It's not going to be the rent.
46:06
Speaker 3: I promise, it's going to be twice that.
46:10
Speaker 2: So it's nevermind, never mind, you know, like you know,
46:15
Speaker 2: we waited and waited.
46:16
Speaker 1: The nineties was a good decade.
46:17
Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, we had moved.
46:20
Speaker 3: We were in another space on Saint Mark's Place basement,
46:24
Speaker 3: and then when that lease was up, we moved to
46:27
Speaker 3: Ninth Street, which was a basement, but it was like
46:31
Speaker 3: a cool basement. It was the original location of La
46:35
Speaker 3: Mama Theater and Ellen Stewart, the original La Mama came
46:41
Speaker 3: down there. I said, you know, this was my original space.
46:45
Speaker 3: And also it was Jimmy Hendricks's crash pad when he
46:50
Speaker 3: was in town, his I think his girlfriend lived in.
46:52
Speaker 2: It was his girlfriend's apartment. So so it.
46:55
Speaker 3: Had a good vibe. But then we really needed more
47:02
Speaker 3: space because the wholesale started to really take off. So
47:06
Speaker 3: we found a really great loft in Tribeca and moved
47:09
Speaker 3: there in like ninety five, but.
47:12
Speaker 2: We only had what was it a three or five
47:14
Speaker 2: year release something really five year lease there and then
47:17
Speaker 2: went slow. Box was up.
47:20
Speaker 3: They didn't want to renew our lease. They wanted architects
47:24
Speaker 3: and they didn't want shipping going on. It changed so
47:28
Speaker 3: much from when we moved. They wanted lawyers and architects.
47:31
Speaker 3: They didn't want our kind anymore. So then we moved
47:36
Speaker 3: to Long Island City, Queens.
47:39
Speaker 1: Was that in the early two thousands.
47:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
47:43
Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookdownrock dot com. There
47:47
Speaker 1: you can find all the back episodes of the show.
47:49
Speaker 1: Welit this episode in video and audio links to all
47:52
Speaker 1: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
47:55
Speaker 1: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram,
48:00
Speaker 1: Talking X. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
48:03
Speaker 1: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
48:06
Speaker 1: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
48:09
Speaker 1: the booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked
48:11
Speaker 1: on Rock merch It's all at booked on Rock dot com.
48:16
Speaker 1: To be great in business, I would think adapting to
48:19
Speaker 1: change is essential, and so we get into the new
48:21
Speaker 1: millennium and new location. But also we mentioned it, social
48:25
Speaker 1: media is now coming into play. Talk about the move
48:27
Speaker 1: and then the adjustments that you have to make as
48:30
Speaker 1: you get into the new into the new millennium two thousands, right,
48:34
Speaker 1: there's so many avenues to promote.
48:36
Speaker 2: I think we weren't prepared for the new way of
48:41
Speaker 2: working and uh selling, you know, which uh you know
48:47
Speaker 2: was the internet. Everybody was like some some companies were
48:53
Speaker 2: way more you know, friendly with all that and knew
48:58
Speaker 2: what they were doing. And we're selling online and we
49:01
Speaker 2: were kind of behind because we were, first of all,
49:04
Speaker 2: we're moving all the time. I didn't have time to
49:09
Speaker 2: keep up with these kind of things. And you know,
49:11
Speaker 2: we didn't have the right advice from people we had.
49:14
Speaker 2: We had a you know, advisor who was telling us
49:17
Speaker 2: not to you know, try to sell internationally, which was
49:21
Speaker 2: our dream, and uh, you know, to just stick with
49:25
Speaker 2: you know, the wholesale and you know the United States
49:29
Speaker 2: and you know, be in stores and not you know, really,
49:34
Speaker 2: you know, we should have had an online presence from
49:38
Speaker 2: the beginning, but we weren't advised, right and uh you know,
49:42
Speaker 2: we were older, so we didn't. We weren't native to
49:46
Speaker 2: all that.
49:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally understand, and now it's essential, you know.
49:52
Speaker 1: It's it's like you have to post almost daily if
49:55
Speaker 1: you can, just to remind people that you're out there
49:58
Speaker 1: and there are so many entry points now to It's
50:02
Speaker 1: like I look at as like a doorway. You got
50:04
Speaker 1: to put put that door in as many places as
50:06
Speaker 1: you can and open up people to your business. So
50:10
Speaker 1: it's it's not just print media or television or radio,
50:13
Speaker 1: and then it becomes social media and it's YouTube, and
50:16
Speaker 1: it's who knows what it's going to be in ten years,
50:19
Speaker 1: but you got to keep up with it otherwise you
50:22
Speaker 1: fall behind. Yeah, yep, yeah, do you have so do
50:25
Speaker 1: you have somebody designated to do all the social media
50:27
Speaker 1: for you?
50:28
Speaker 2: Now?
50:28
Speaker 1: We do?
50:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, we have, you know, and we've had people
50:32
Speaker 2: for years. But I think I think the new team
50:35
Speaker 2: is the dream team and they're you know, really doing well.
50:39
Speaker 1: Tents. That's a time when flashy hair color became more mainstream, right.
50:47
Speaker 3: M h, It totally did. It's been like inching its
50:51
Speaker 3: way in, but by the twenty tents it was really
50:58
Speaker 3: going mainstream. It was just it's just unbelievable. It's just
51:03
Speaker 3: a dream come true that the style and colors that
51:07
Speaker 3: we've always loved have become so much more accepted and
51:15
Speaker 3: worn by so many people all over the world.
51:17
Speaker 1: Right, Katy Perry, who else, Lena Dennis Rodman.
51:26
Speaker 2: I mean every you know in all different, uh you know,
51:32
Speaker 2: parts of life all different, like you know, not just musicians,
51:36
Speaker 2: but all you know, people in sports. I see people
51:39
Speaker 2: you know in the Olympics with colored hair, and it's
51:42
Speaker 2: it's just amazing. And what's really interesting to me and
51:48
Speaker 2: wonderful to see it is, uh, our older people like
51:56
Speaker 2: with white hair, people who whose hair have? You know,
51:59
Speaker 2: if your hair is on white, it's so much easier
52:02
Speaker 2: to color it with Manic allid. Manic Panic works. Manic
52:07
Speaker 2: Panic works really well on natural white or gray hair.
52:12
Speaker 2: And you know, I would say ours works better than
52:15
Speaker 2: any other brand on gray or white hair. And you know,
52:20
Speaker 2: we're living examples of what you can do, and you
52:22
Speaker 2: know what you can look like at an older age.
52:26
Speaker 2: And you know we're always aging disgracefully and proud of it.
52:30
Speaker 3: Yes, selection of colors called the Aging Disgracefully Collection that
52:36
Speaker 3: works really well over gray or white hair.
52:40
Speaker 1: And the best place to go is Manic Panic dot com.
52:43
Speaker 1: The best place for people to go to find the products.
52:46
Speaker 2: I mean you can find everything because you know, various
52:49
Speaker 2: stores might sell various colors or products, but on the
52:53
Speaker 2: manic Panic site. You could get everything and everything and anything.
52:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what are your thoughts on the current trends
53:02
Speaker 1: as we head into twenty twenty six as far as
53:04
Speaker 1: hairstyles and clothing with some of the bigger artists out
53:07
Speaker 1: there today, What do you like? What would you change
53:09
Speaker 1: if anything?
53:10
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think it changed anything. What
53:13
Speaker 2: I do see, though, is such a variation in looks
53:18
Speaker 2: and in hair and everything. It just seems like it's
53:22
Speaker 2: really hard to pinpoint trends like it used to be.
53:27
Speaker 2: It really, it used to be so easy, you know, Like.
53:30
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?
53:32
Speaker 2: I think people were individual now.
53:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was disturbing to me was when Pantone came
53:40
Speaker 3: out with their color of the Year this year and
53:44
Speaker 3: it's white, which is the absence of color, and that's
53:50
Speaker 3: the color of the year. It's like some kind of
53:52
Speaker 3: like I forget what the name of it is, but
53:57
Speaker 3: it's white, maybe some kind of or something, but it's white,
54:02
Speaker 3: and how can that be the color of the year.
54:04
Speaker 3: Like that's kind of boring to me. Nothing wrong with white, but.
54:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in the color business, so white doesn't seem
54:17
Speaker 2: to really I don't know. I mean it's it's great.
54:22
Speaker 2: White is nice, but you need some color.
54:28
Speaker 1: The Book Down Rock podcast is part of the Boneless
54:30
Speaker 1: Podcasting network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
54:33
Speaker 1: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot lovable
54:36
Speaker 1: dot app to find over twenty great shows there that's
54:40
Speaker 1: Boneless Downlovable dot app, or just go to book down
54:43
Speaker 1: Rock dot com. Click on the logo, It'll take you
54:46
Speaker 1: right to the Boneless podcasting network. It is what you
54:49
Speaker 1: want to be listen with confidence, along with the great
54:55
Speaker 1: stories behind the history of the story I mentioned. You know,
54:57
Speaker 1: the book is also a guide for everyone of all
55:00
Speaker 1: is to find their unique colored style. So I guess
55:02
Speaker 1: we'll finish with what's the best advice you would give
55:04
Speaker 1: to someone who's right now listening to this or watching
55:07
Speaker 1: this and we want to make a change.
55:09
Speaker 5: Well stress and dire hair, and I I think, uh,
55:16
Speaker 5: you know, there's there's so many ways to go about it,
55:19
Speaker 5: and uh, you know it all it's so individual at
55:21
Speaker 5: this point with like, you know, somebody with really super
55:26
Speaker 5: dark hair.
55:28
Speaker 2: It's super dark hair is really in general very hard
55:32
Speaker 2: to lighten. So uh, you know, some people might want
55:36
Speaker 2: to start with just lightning. Maybe the underneath and that
55:44
Speaker 2: way if they're if they go to work, they could
55:47
Speaker 2: put their hair down on top of it, and then
55:49
Speaker 2: if they go out they.
55:50
Speaker 1: Can you know, Okay.
55:54
Speaker 2: I think it's like thinkaboo, yeah, or is it.
55:59
Speaker 1: Also just follow follow what I guess what your inner
56:06
Speaker 1: is telling you. Don't be afraid.
56:09
Speaker 3: And do what you want, do what you feel, and
56:13
Speaker 3: fuck anybody that doesn't like it.
56:17
Speaker 1: No, I think it is, and it's it's interesting. I
56:19
Speaker 1: just saw an article about the you know it was.
56:24
Speaker 1: They had a picture of an actor in his late
56:27
Speaker 1: forties back in like in the nineteen fifties, and an
56:30
Speaker 1: actor today in his late forties, and we look so
56:34
Speaker 1: much younger. And I think it doesn't age really doesn't
56:37
Speaker 1: matter anymore in terms of just just be who you
56:40
Speaker 1: want to be and how you want to look. There's
56:43
Speaker 1: no expectations anymore, I don't think. I guess that's where
56:46
Speaker 1: I'm going with that.
56:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think in the older days, people thought they
56:50
Speaker 2: had to grow into a certain look, and I don't.
56:55
Speaker 2: I don't think it applies anymore. I'm you know, I'm
56:58
Speaker 2: old and I'm wearing a shut up shirt. I yes,
57:04
Speaker 2: I think uh. I think people are realizing more that
57:11
Speaker 2: you know, you have to enjoy yourself at every age
57:16
Speaker 2: and accept yourself at every age.
57:18
Speaker 3: And there should be no limits and no limitation to
57:23
Speaker 3: what you should do or what you should look like
57:26
Speaker 3: or look like or where you know, no matter what
57:31
Speaker 3: age you are.
57:32
Speaker 2: And back to you know, somebody like uh, you know
57:35
Speaker 2: w Harry and Cindy Walker. They're you know, they're still
57:38
Speaker 2: going strong. Yeah, you know they're not going to let
57:42
Speaker 2: somebody tell them, oh, you know what, you really you
57:45
Speaker 2: should be retired?
57:47
Speaker 3: Yes, to dictate your expiration date to you.
57:53
Speaker 2: I don't see an expiration date on the back of
57:55
Speaker 2: your neck.
57:57
Speaker 1: I agree. I always say retirement is for those who
58:00
Speaker 1: are working. But this is this is their passion, it's
58:03
Speaker 1: what they love to do. And if you're doing something
58:05
Speaker 1: you love to do, why why retire?
58:08
Speaker 2: Yeah?
58:09
Speaker 1: I think this idea of retirement is it's not all
58:11
Speaker 1: that it's cracked up to be.
58:13
Speaker 2: I know.
58:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you then it's like you got to you
58:17
Speaker 1: have to wake up every morning and have something to
58:19
Speaker 1: really feel passionate about whatever it is. So well, you
58:24
Speaker 1: could find the book Manic Panic, Living in Color, A
58:26
Speaker 1: Rebellious Guide to hear Color in Life wherever books are sold.
58:29
Speaker 1: You can find it at your nearest bookstore. Go online Amazon,
58:33
Speaker 1: find it at your nearest independent store. If you want
58:35
Speaker 1: to find your nearest independent bookstore, go to bookdown Rock
58:37
Speaker 1: dot com. And so people can find you online and
58:39
Speaker 1: mentioned Manic Panic dot com if they go there. I'm
58:43
Speaker 1: trying to recall, does that have links to all the
58:45
Speaker 1: social media sites as well on the website? Okay, yeah,
58:49
Speaker 1: so yeah yeah, because you are out there and you
58:54
Speaker 1: just have to google Manic Panic and you'll find everything.
58:58
Speaker 1: Tiss and stucky. This is so great. Thank you so
59:00
Speaker 1: much for coming on and enlightening me. I got I
59:03
Speaker 1: don't know, I just have regular brown here. I don't know.
59:05
Speaker 1: I feel like I should do I should do something
59:10
Speaker 1: about that.
59:13
Speaker 2: Up.
59:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for coming on.
59:16
Speaker 2: This is great for having us.
59:24
Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the books.