Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / Gambling: America's True National Pastime with Author David Bockino

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Gambling: America's True National Pastime with Author David Bockino · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites presented by Draft Kings. The crown
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: is yours. We are an Action Network podcast. I'm Brandon
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Kravitz to your host. Back at it with my people,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of DJEN Nation, Stucky, and the first
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Lady of the pod, Kendra Middleton. Evan Abrams Statshound on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: with us as well. This podcast is leveling up the intelligence.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Today we're talking to an author, the author of the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: book over Under an Unexpected History of Sports Betting, looking
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: forward to that. Stucky has already read this cover to cover,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: but let's check in with the crew. First and foremost, Kendra,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: back from Turks and Caicos again. Find a show that
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: is better traveled than this one.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: How was it?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: I am kind of offended that nobody commented that I
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: am Tanna's hell, so just saying it was great.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: I swam with.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Two sharks, a dolphin, a sea turtle. My travel back
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: was really shitty, but other than that, it was awesome.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: I have nothing to complain about. It was probably top
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: three place I've ever been. I've never seen such clear water.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: It was really expensive, but it in transportation was a
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: pain in the ass, but it was awesome.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: This spur of the moment, or did you have this planned?
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Because we we booked like a boat for a day
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: for like our crew, and we went snorkeling, and they
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: took us to a reef where we could snorkel.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: With sharks and stuff, and a couple of the members
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: of the group were nervous, but I was like.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: See yawn, I just hopped in and me and Bruce
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: hung out.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Is that is that a place that's in the hat
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that you and your wife have stuck you?
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: No, not yet, but maybe one day.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: It was good. I liked it a lot. Highly recommend
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: takes a lot of place.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard a lot of bad press from at
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: least the vacationing parties at Turks and Keikos a very
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: popular place.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: For those that want to get away.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: A bit of a damper on the trip, though, is
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that you were sad as we all were,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: to come home to a nation that just.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Got booted from the World Cup.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: For one we lose at the hands of Belgium. Just
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a flurry of blunders and missed opportunities. Everyone on the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: team seemed to step off. Was it pressure, was it
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: presidential distraction? Or did we just simply overrate this team.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I'm still trying to sort through all of that, Kendra or.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: Learn so many thoughts about this.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I would like justice for Sebastian Bearhalter and Geo Reina.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Gio Reiner should have been incorporated in this lineup a
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: lot more than he was. I would say Matt Freeze
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: is an idiot. I would say Belgium, if you watch soccer,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: had the better roster, but Team USA did not play
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: the caliber of football that they have been playing throughout
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: the majority of this tournament. Every but he was scared
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: of the ball. They got bullied off the ball, just
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: stupid plays from people. Christian Polisic was supposed to be
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: like the second coming of Jesus Christ.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: He was nowhere to be found.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: His post game interviews about how now he gets to rest.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Pissed me off so bad.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Could you imagine like an NFL player going out there
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: and saying something like that after losing, you know, in
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: the postseason in December.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not. They played like a bunch of pussies.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: And we need a new We need new center backs,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: we need goalies. The lack of goalkeeping that the US
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: has produced other than Tim Howard is just insane and
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: making travel soccer so expensive for kids is not going
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: to make our issues go away. I just am bewildered
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: by this. This team needs to be held accountable. Stop
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: making excuses for them on the internet. It was just horrific.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: There's no excuse for it.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Thinking some young way coup references to our goalie. Yeah, sure,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: just a complete blunder. But here's the thing, there's no
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: one thing of all of those excuses that people have.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: And there are those, of course, because this was made
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a political story that are blaming the pressure that was
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: put on the team from the president and then the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: controversy that surrounded it, and perhaps that motivating the opponent
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: didn't help. But we live in a world of power
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: ratings and statistical analysis. What is that worth a goal?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: They would still have won three to one if we're saying, okay,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the distraction is worth a goal for the opposition. Team
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: USA was dominated and I just think that maybe this
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: comes down to overall quality. Evan Abrams, who is here
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: with us, put out a stat yesterday on Twitter that
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I think is fascinating. It is something that most of
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: us that don't watch soccer on a regular basis and
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: got caught up in the hype of team USA would
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: not have been aware of Evan.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Can you share the.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I believe it's a power rating or a FIFA ranking
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: of the difference between these two squad odds in USA
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and Belgium.
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, what's up, guys?
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: I mean judging two teams in international play is a
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: little bit difficult in general. Like you have odds, which
• 5:08
  Speaker 6: only goes back so far, you have FIFA rankings, and
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: you have something called ELO ratings, so FIFA goes back
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: to like ninety four e logos basically forever.
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: But rankings are just rankings obviously. But Belgium was plus
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: eight in FIFA rankings versus the US in that game.
• 5:24
  Speaker 7: I believe it was seventeen versus nine, and they were
• 5:28
  Speaker 7: plus twelve spots in the ELO ratings versus the US
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: in terms of rankings, and they were underdogs. So in
• 5:36
  Speaker 7: my data, which goes back to since ninety four, I
• 5:38
  Speaker 7: have it since ninety in the betting markets, they would
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: have been the second dog in the knockout round with
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: those rank advantages. And obviously there is something to be
• 5:47
  Speaker 7: said about US having the home match right like it
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: was in Seattle. The crowd was crazy, Like there is
• 5:53
  Speaker 7: an element of that, but it was pretty crazy given
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: this scenario and Lokaku Doku KDB all coming off the
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: bench and Katy he didn't even need to play.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: That was my takeaway as well. I think I tweeted
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: at the half at the.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Availability of Kevin de Bruyna off the bench scared this
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: shit out of me and like, yeah, he's.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Old for a soccer player now.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: And the reason that I think that he was on
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the bench was he just wasn't in game shape. But
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: when you have someone so experienced like that to be
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: able to come off the bench, I just don't see
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: why you don't use the option. And the other thing
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: for me is like, all right, Matt Freeze MLS goalie.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I get why he's starting over Matt Turner, but when
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: you see him give up such stupid goals like that,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I get that he is better than Matt Turner on paper,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: but Matt Turner is older and has experience. I think
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: that you put him in goal after that, Like you
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: don't often sub a goalie, but when you just have
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: your brain fall out of your ass like that, I
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: put in our notes, do we think that that's the
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: worst sports fuck?
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Up we've ever seen.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Because I know that I might have recency bias, but
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: oh my god, was that awful?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Bill Buckner comes to mind. But it does seem like
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: in Heinz site, Stucky Belgium would have been a very
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: very sharp wager. Were you or you or or any
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: of your buddies on that.
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: I didn't. I didn't at the match, but it seems
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: that some it seems like there's some a bit of overreaction,
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: but that's what happens in sports these days, because everyone
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: got so caught up, like people were. People went from like,
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: oh is the US gonna win? Now? Can they win
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: the World Cup? To like they're the worst team ever?
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: And I guess it was the way that they lost people.
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't expect it to just be an uncompetitive bludgeoning,
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: but you.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Know, I Senegal almost beat them. We're better than Senegal.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: But this is like what people expected coming into the tournament,
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: right like round of sixteen were ranked right around.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: There, I believe. By the way.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Danielle Physickella, who we had an interview with on this podcast,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: his best bet was Team USA Round of sixteen, Stage
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of elimination.
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: So yeah, but it does feel like all right, you know,
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: just naturally like all right, have we have? We really
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: just made no progress, right when you when you compare
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: to the problem that's fourteen we lost to the same
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: team in the same round. Now people will say like
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: it wasn't it was more competitive then, but we kind
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: of you know, there was an all World goalie performance
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: from Howard and we kind of sat back a little
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: bit more. But I think it was just a way
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: that we lost that is upset Peol. But coming into
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: the tournament, this was what was about expected from this team.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I think it was bare minimum. I mean, Belgium had
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: the better roster.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: They beat them back in April in Atlanta, and if
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: you watch, if you watch soccer, it was the better team.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Belgium was the better team. But I wanted them to
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: be competitive because Senegal took them so far in that
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: game and the US is better than them. I think
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: the thing that makes me the most mad is that
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: we have so many sports to play here, but travel
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: soccer is so expensive and we're not going to get
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: any better as a soccer nation.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: And till that changes.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amen to that coming out a.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: Star player, not just living up to the moment, right
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: that that was you.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: West did nothing and I don't care if he was injured.
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: Well, but yeah, this is kind of what was expected
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: coming into the tournament.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: He is getting roasted. They absolutely barbecued Fourth of July style.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: David Bichino, author of the book over Under, coming up.
• 9:27
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• 9:29
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• 9:56
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• 10:00
  Speaker 1: The book is titled over Under An Unexpected History of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Sports Betting. The offer the author is David Bachino. He
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: joins us here on the podcast Stuck. He's got the
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: book with him right now as we speak. A fascinating
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: topic there, it is on the screen. I'm excited to
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: dig into it. Sports betting has been woven into the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: fabric of this country from the very beginning. So how
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: far back, David, does the book take us?
• 10:28
  Speaker 8: Yeah, we go all the way back to kind of
• 10:30
  Speaker 8: post Civil War, when baseball started to emerge after the
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: war in the eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies. And as
• 10:37
  Speaker 8: soon as Americans started playing these organized sports and watching
• 10:41
  Speaker 8: horse racing, they were betting on it. And that's kind
• 10:43
  Speaker 8: of the theme of the whole book, as that betting
• 10:45
  Speaker 8: was there from the very beginning and has been there
• 10:47
  Speaker 8: ever since, despite kind of recent calls that this is
• 10:52
  Speaker 8: a new phenomenon which the whole book is positioned to
• 10:55
  Speaker 8: take a different perspective on the industry, you.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Know, and I I read into some of that that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: going back to the beginning of sports, that the sports
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: betting culture has been woven in.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: As I just mentioned.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Horse racing, it still seems that it has stayed in
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: that lane, It stayed away from the fire and the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: judgment over the years. As far as the sports betting aspect,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: we think horse racing, we think sports betting, and it
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: has been completely normalized forever. Why is it that that?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And maybe there's another sport that you could use as
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: an example here why that sport has been able to
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: avoid the judgment and criticism where other sports were ran
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: so far away from sports betting over the years.
• 11:38
  Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I'll actually talk about this in one of
• 11:40
  Speaker 8: the first chapters of the book. And the idea that
• 11:42
  Speaker 8: horse racing gambling was normalized started from the very beginning,
• 11:46
  Speaker 8: and a lot of the rationale for horse racing in
• 11:49
  Speaker 8: those early years came from laws legalizing horse racing gambling,
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: and a lot of those laws had really hilarious names,
• 11:58
  Speaker 8: such as.
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: To improve the breed of horses.
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: So horse racing was all about making better horses for military.
• 12:04
  Speaker 9: Purposes in a lot of ways.
• 12:06
  Speaker 8: And because of those military purposes, people said, hey, we
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: need to have these events in order to get better horses.
• 12:14
  Speaker 8: And we in order to have these events, we need
• 12:16
  Speaker 8: people betting on them, because no one's going to show
• 12:18
  Speaker 8: up at the track just to watch the track, so
• 12:20
  Speaker 8: we need some sort of mechanism to get people to
• 12:22
  Speaker 8: the to get people to the track to watch this.
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: And then people started wearing nice outfits. It became a
• 12:29
  Speaker 8: play for affluent consumers to come there and bet on
• 12:32
  Speaker 8: their horses, and it sort of had this sheen of
• 12:34
  Speaker 8: respectability horse racing that other sports didn't necessarily have, and
• 12:39
  Speaker 8: that just continued for decades and decades, and para mutual
• 12:43
  Speaker 8: betting played into them.
• 12:43
  Speaker 9: We could talk about.
• 12:44
  Speaker 8: That, but it certainly was You're right to make the
• 12:47
  Speaker 8: observation that stood apart from some of these other sports
• 12:50
  Speaker 8: and seemed to be more accepted as part of that
• 12:54
  Speaker 8: entire culture.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: I have to back up here for a second.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Before we started recording the show we were talking about
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Ducky realized that you had written a book about me
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: and mar earlier in your career. What inspired you to
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: dig further into this topic? Why sports betting? How did
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: you get up here? How did the research kind of
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: just inspire you to write the book in general?
• 13:12
  Speaker 9: Yeah?
• 13:13
  Speaker 8: Sure, you know I wrote. I started writing some travel
• 13:15
  Speaker 8: books earlier. I was really big into travel books. I
• 13:19
  Speaker 8: wanted to write my own. And then I had three
• 13:22
  Speaker 8: children and I started doing a lot less traveling, and
• 13:24
  Speaker 8: I started teaching at Eline University in North Carolina, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: I worked at ESPN for close to eight years, and
• 13:30
  Speaker 8: so I have a sports media background, and I became
• 13:33
  Speaker 8: a sports media professor here, so I started teaching a
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: bunch of courses that involved both sports and media. Several
• 13:40
  Speaker 8: years before this, I put together a book of the
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: sports media industry. It's more of a sweeping history of it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: And then when I finished that, I said, you know
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: what's everyone talking about now, sports betting. I started diving
• 13:50
  Speaker 8: into the history of the industry and a thesis emerged
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: that provided a different perspective. There's a lot of information
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: and stuff about sports betting that sort of toes the
• 14:02
  Speaker 8: same line. These days, there are several books that take
• 14:05
  Speaker 8: a more negative view of the industry, and I wanted
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: to say, what's a perspective that people really haven't pursued.
• 14:11
  Speaker 8: And when I started looking into the early sports I
• 14:13
  Speaker 8: just said, Man, every single sport in America, every event,
• 14:17
  Speaker 8: gambling was there from the very beginning. It's the first
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: fans to show up at almost every single event, and
• 14:23
  Speaker 8: no one.
• 14:23
  Speaker 9: Really talks about that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 8: People talk about betting as an offshoot of our sports obsession,
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: not sort of the integral component of our sports obsession.
• 14:32
  Speaker 8: So I wanted to tell that story because I think
• 14:34
  Speaker 8: it's I think it should change the way that we
• 14:36
  Speaker 8: think about sports betting, especially when we're having all these
• 14:39
  Speaker 8: legal conversations and these larger conversations about where sports betting
• 14:43
  Speaker 8: fits into the industry right now, My book really ties
• 14:48
  Speaker 8: those different aspects together throughout history.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Do you think that sports betting has kind of changed sports?
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're watching the World Cup right now, we're
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: talking about FIFA and corruption and all of that type
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: of stuff.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: We're obviously a pro.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Gambling podcast here, But how do you think this has
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: sort of evolved into this multi billion dollar corporation industry,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, And how do you
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: think that that influences how people consume gambling. The fact
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: that we have you know, DraftKings logos whatever on every
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: single core, it's just grown so much.
• 15:18
  Speaker 8: Well, you know, I talk a lot about how I
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: don't think that the explosion of gambling content and gambling,
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: especially among younger people, I don't think it's a societal shift.
• 15:28
  Speaker 8: I think what happened was we removed the technological and
• 15:33
  Speaker 8: the legal barriers to an activity that people have been
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: wanting to do there forever, especially Americans. If you go
• 15:39
  Speaker 8: back to the nineteen thirties, one of the fastest growing
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: industries in the United States was parlay cards. People were
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: just handing out parlay cards on the corners and people
• 15:47
  Speaker 8: were playing them.
• 15:48
  Speaker 9: And there were.
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: Millions of people doing that, including people who had never
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: watched a college football game in their life because there
• 15:55
  Speaker 8: was no television, they couldn't watch a college football game.
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: Yet they were still in New York betting on Iowa
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: versus Nebraska, right, And there's just some sort of rush
• 16:03
  Speaker 8: that people have while when they see then they want
• 16:05
  Speaker 8: to pick aside and they want to put it down
• 16:08
  Speaker 8: a little money for the chance to win a lot
• 16:10
  Speaker 8: of money, and so we remove the technological and legal
• 16:13
  Speaker 8: barriers and that's led to this explosion. Now has it
• 16:16
  Speaker 8: changed the way people watch sports? Absolutely, more people are
• 16:19
  Speaker 8: gambling than ever before, especially legally, and I see it
• 16:23
  Speaker 8: with my students. They're watching more games. Ratings have never
• 16:26
  Speaker 8: been higher. And Neilsen also changed the methodology, so we
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: have to remember that because I teach analytics courses as well.
• 16:33
  Speaker 9: But sports have.
• 16:34
  Speaker 8: Never been more popular in this country, and gambling has
• 16:38
  Speaker 8: played a role in keeping that engagement. I think the
• 16:41
  Speaker 8: regular fandoms remain. I talk to my students all the
• 16:44
  Speaker 8: time and they still love the Red Sox. They love
• 16:46
  Speaker 8: the Giants. They love their teams, but they're also more
• 16:49
  Speaker 8: likely to watch a Thursday night game on Amazon than
• 16:51
  Speaker 8: that maybe they wouldn't have watched if they couldn't legally
• 16:55
  Speaker 8: put the same game parlay in.
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: David, I will say I was to read this over
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: the weekend, didn't get around to it. So last night
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: I opened it up and I was like, I'm going
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: to read this overnight. But I was stressed because I
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: was like, it better be good because it's tough to
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: read book overnight if it's not in one in one sitting.
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: But I was able to. It was very entertaining. I
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: loved a lot of the stories in there. What stuck
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: out to me was over and over again was just
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: the cyclical nature of things, right, like the things that
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: we talk about today, you know, oh, betting is ruining
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: sports taxes, revenue. All these discussions that keep coming over
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: coming up, over and over again we've had for hundreds
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: of years. I mean one of the quotes in the book,
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: fog Allen back in nineteen forty five was saying to
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: go along with Kendri was saying, seventy percent of the
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: crowd has he had a betting ticket watching the game,
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: So like, this is a country that was just that,
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: that was founded on betting. We've been degenerates forever. I
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: love some of the stories of the early betting. Other example,
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: by the way, is pedestrianism. Like we talk about, oh,
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: we're bothering athletes on social media. It's got to stop.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: There was someone in eighteen eighty nine who threw a
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: rock at Pedestionalism was a spot people bet on that
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: we furtheros. It an't know that would just walk around
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: for as long as possible.
• 18:16
  Speaker 9: For days, for days, for days, and people.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: Would bet on it and just walk walk in circles
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: and the last man's standing would win. But you have
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: stories in here about betting on rats, betting on We've
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: got used to that on rats. We used to bet
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: on ostriches. What does you want to share one of
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: your favorite stories in regards to like the odd betting
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: things that our country was founded on.
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I grew up in New York, so
• 18:42
  Speaker 8: I lived in I lived in Queens for about a decade.
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: And I love the old like New York gambling hall
• 18:48
  Speaker 8: stories because that that sort of the grimy part of
• 18:53
  Speaker 8: New York has slowly been disappearing.
• 18:55
  Speaker 9: Over the last you know, several decades.
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: But going downtown and just going into this dim we
• 19:00
  Speaker 8: lit place where there was a cage and they threw
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: rats into a cage with a dog, and they bet
• 19:06
  Speaker 8: on how many rats a dog could catch in a
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: minute or three minutes or four minutes. And it was disgusting.
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: And you know, they would catch these rats just on
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: the streets. They would pay some dude to basically go
• 19:17
  Speaker 8: on the streets and catch the rats and throw them
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: into the cage. And yet it's not you know, you
• 19:23
  Speaker 8: don't want to idealize it. There were probably some terrible
• 19:26
  Speaker 8: people in there who should not have been in there.
• 19:29
  Speaker 8: But it's interesting and it's a fascinating that we were
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: willing to say, hey, we want to bet so bad
• 19:34
  Speaker 8: that we need to manufacture these events in order to
• 19:38
  Speaker 8: satiate our betting desires. Right, And so I loved that.
• 19:43
  Speaker 8: I love all the boxing stuff in the book. But
• 19:45
  Speaker 8: you're absolutely right, stucky in that like this idea that
• 19:49
  Speaker 8: the conversations were having today. So many of these conversations
• 19:52
  Speaker 8: we've had over and over and over and over again.
• 19:55
  Speaker 8: You know, I read a lot that, hey, there's too
• 19:57
  Speaker 8: many young people gambling on sports and that very well
• 20:00
  Speaker 8: maybe true. Can gambling be addicting, Yeah, absolutely, it can
• 20:03
  Speaker 8: be addicting. But people were complaining about young people gambling
• 20:06
  Speaker 8: on sports in nineteen oh three, they were complaining about
• 20:08
  Speaker 8: them gambling on sports in the nineteen thirties, in the
• 20:10
  Speaker 8: nineteen seventies. In the Sports Illustrated had an entire issue
• 20:14
  Speaker 8: in nineteen eighty six and one of the big articles
• 20:17
  Speaker 8: was how college their sports betting across colleges is disease.
• 20:22
  Speaker 9: It's rampant. Everybody's betting on sports.
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: And so a lot of the conversations we're having today
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: have always been going on everything's more in your face
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: now we have social media. Right, every conversation we have
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: is more in your face because there's more people to
• 20:37
  Speaker 8: comment on it. But it is all cyclical, and so
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: learning about the history is important. I appreciate your kind
• 20:43
  Speaker 8: words about the book. I tried to write.
• 20:46
  Speaker 9: It for people who like good.
• 20:50
  Speaker 8: Stories that they can then, you know, take away and
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: tell their friends at dinner. The chapters are short. There's
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: really crazy characters. I mean, you guys are in this industry,
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: you know some of the characters in the sports betting
• 21:01
  Speaker 8: world are just.
• 21:02
  Speaker 9: The best, right, they're they're also awful.
• 21:05
  Speaker 8: Some of them are awful, But there's a there's a
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: mix of just hilarious, absurd, funny people and then there's
• 21:11
  Speaker 8: geniuses too, And so there's a lot of geniuses throughout
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: the lookout throughout the book that basically emerge in this
• 21:18
  Speaker 8: industry to take advantage of it. So I really wrote
• 21:22
  Speaker 8: this book for a mix of people, and one of
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: the groups were sports people who like sports betting and
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: want to learn the history of something that's been going
• 21:30
  Speaker 8: on for a long time and learn.
• 21:32
  Speaker 9: A thing or two that they can they can go
• 21:33
  Speaker 9: tell their friends.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can we get a reaction from Kendra on the
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: on the dogs catching the rats? That is that something
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that you would lay a few bucks on.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Hendra, I am all set with the gambling on animal
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: cruel to you guys know that I'm kind of crunchy
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: about that, but that is insane and I and it's
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: no different than when people were betting on you know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: like dog racing and you know still even forces. Yeah,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff, cock fighting whatever, all that stuff.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: But it just it never ceases to amaze me.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I one of my coworkers at my other job was
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: betting on like rolling dice during COVID because he had
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: nothing else to do, so people get really creative with it.
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I uh yeah, you probably want to skip the part.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: I think there's a part where someone is biting heads
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: off of rats. But the other thing that that really
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: stuck out to me was, I really want to get
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: your thoughts on this, was you had you had a
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: section on Pete Rose. Yeah, obviously a topic, very hot
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: topic forever in the gambling in sports space. And then
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: what really stuck out to me is the irony of
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: like Pete Rose not in the Hall of Fame. He's
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: bad for what he did up against right everything, all
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: these sports that basically were either started from gambling or
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: fueled by gambling. And then all these other players, famous players,
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: Hall of famers, Right, Joe Namath has been involved in
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: gambling forever. Paul Horning, literally nicknamed the Golden Boy, was suspended.
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: I think he might be the first player I think
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: in the college and NFL college football and NFL Hall
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: of Fame was suspended first season for gambling. Do people
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: even know that Johnny Unitis was a taut? Do people
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: know that he was one of the original tauts selling
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: football picks, So you have all these like and they
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: didn't really have any repercussions as far as they're standing
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: with the sport. But Pete Rose did for betting on
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: his team when he was managing, So it seemed kind
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: of unfair when you look at some of these other guys.
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: We basically just went on skate for some of the
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: things that they did. So I'm curious to see where
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: you stand on the Pete Rose debate.
• 23:42
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 8: One of the most ridiculous things, and a lot of
• 23:45
  Speaker 8: people know this, but a lot of people don't, is
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: that Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were basically removed from
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: Major League Baseball officially because they took jobs at casinos
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: shaking hands with people, which is just absurd to think about,
• 23:55
  Speaker 8: just as ambassadors for casinos in Atlantic City. The Piros
• 23:59
  Speaker 8: thing is interesting. It's been debated and discussed and chronicled
• 24:03
  Speaker 8: a million times. Right, So I went into this book
• 24:05
  Speaker 8: being like, I can't tell the normal Pete Rose story,
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: So what's a different angle that people don't.
• 24:09
  Speaker 9: Understand about Pete Rose?
• 24:10
  Speaker 8: And one thing that I found fascinating was that he
• 24:13
  Speaker 8: grew up basically a mile or two from the nerve
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: center of US sports gambling at the time, which is
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: a place called Newport, Kentucky, right over the river, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 8: everyone around Pete Rose. When Pete Rose was growing up
• 24:24
  Speaker 8: was gambling. His dad would take him to the track.
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: He would go to Newport and see people gambling. It
• 24:29
  Speaker 8: was a gambling hotbed. The fact that Pete Rose grew
• 24:32
  Speaker 8: up to be a gambler, someone who was involved with
• 24:35
  Speaker 8: sports his whole life, makes a ton of sense. It
• 24:39
  Speaker 8: would have been weird if Pete Rose hadn't been a
• 24:41
  Speaker 8: gambler in some way, just because his whole life was
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: imbued with gambling. Now, Pete Rose, I like you know,
• 24:48
  Speaker 8: I often say that he did himself no favors. He
• 24:52
  Speaker 8: was combative with the league. He changed his story a
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: bunch of times, and so he didn't He didn't handle
• 25:00
  Speaker 8: the situation well when he started getting in trouble, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 8: I think that's probably why it didn't resolve itself in
• 25:06
  Speaker 8: his lifetime. But yeah, there's been people before him, and
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: there's been people after him who have now they haven't
• 25:13
  Speaker 8: faced the same repercussions as Rose, and I think baseball
• 25:17
  Speaker 8: over the next ten years or so is going to
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: fix that. Unfortunately, Peter Rose is no longer here with
• 25:21
  Speaker 8: us to enjoy that. But I think the Peter Rose
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: situation is partly to blame for the fact that, yeah,
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: he was gambling on his own team, or there's evidence
• 25:30
  Speaker 8: to think that he was gambling on his own team.
• 25:32
  Speaker 8: And because he didn't just come out and say, hey,
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: I screwed up, I'm really sorry, he kind of hemmed
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: and hauled for a while, and then he changed the
• 25:40
  Speaker 8: story a few times, and I think that caused him
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: a lot of problems as well. But you're right, Johnny
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: Unice was selling his face for football picks in I forget,
• 25:50
  Speaker 8: early nineteen seventies or something at some point when he
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: was one of the first towns or eighties, I guess.
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: And that's crazy to think about today. Imagine Tom Brady was,
• 26:01
  Speaker 8: you know, Tom Brady's football picks.
• 26:04
  Speaker 9: I don't think that would ever fly now.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: Based off the history that you've dug into.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Do you think that gambling is kind of at a
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: weird crossroads right now? Of the wild wild West, of
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: what it used to be really no rules, regulations, you
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: couldn't do it at the tip of your finger with
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: your phone, and now kind of the taxation the government
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: wanting a cut, them being able to track everything. There's
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: never going to be kind of the underground aspect of gambling.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: To go away.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: But do you think that we're in like a weird
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: position right now of kind of a crossover of what
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: it used to be and what the future of it
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: might look like.
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: Absolutely, I one hundred percent agree with that. I think
• 26:37
  Speaker 8: we're in a weird spot. I think we'll look back
• 26:39
  Speaker 8: at this time as like, wow, man, there was a
• 26:41
  Speaker 8: lot of stuff going on with prediction markets with different
• 26:43
  Speaker 8: tax rates. I think, you know, I talked to my
• 26:48
  Speaker 8: students there. They think that. And these are sport management kids, right,
• 26:53
  Speaker 8: so like they're going to work in sports, they want
• 26:56
  Speaker 8: to work in sports in the future. They think sports
• 26:59
  Speaker 8: betting should be legal. They're not necessarily super pumped with
• 27:02
  Speaker 8: the way it's positioned right now, and they don't want
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: it as in your face as it currently is. I
• 27:08
  Speaker 8: think there'll be a bit of a pullback as some
• 27:11
  Speaker 8: of these leagues, as some of these platforms get a
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: bit of a position. You know, the advertising's already subsided
• 27:18
  Speaker 8: a little bit.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Not bathtub gin anymore. What's that, It's not bathtub gin anymore?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: Right, No, that's and so like, I think we'll come
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: to an agreement where the people who want the gambling
• 27:30
  Speaker 8: content will get the gambling content, and the people who
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: don't want the gambling content won't have to have it
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: shoved down their throats. And I think that's great for
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: everybody involved. And we are in a weird spot. We're
• 27:41
  Speaker 8: in a weird spot culturally, and we're in a weird
• 27:43
  Speaker 8: spot legally. You know, I'm not a prediction market expert.
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: It's obviously going to be the future the next five
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: years of how this whole thing shakes out from a
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: legal perspective. But I think in ten years we'll say, Okay,
• 27:59
  Speaker 8: that was crazy.
• 28:00
  Speaker 9: Learned a lot in that time.
• 28:01
  Speaker 8: And politicians have to learn too, you know, just continuously
• 28:04
  Speaker 8: raising the tax rates, not going to do it because
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: that's just going to support these offshore books even.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Exactly people just doing it underground. Yeah, And like you.
• 28:11
  Speaker 8: Have to realize that a twenty one year old knows
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: how to navigate to those offshore books. They know how
• 28:16
  Speaker 8: to pirate games better than anyone. Whenever I can't find
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: the game, I ask my class, I say, hey, guys,
• 28:22
  Speaker 8: I can't watch them that game tonight.
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: Like how what are you guys using these days?
• 28:25
  Speaker 8: And they'll they'll point me to the right place, right,
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: they know how to do all this stuff, And so
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: that's not the answer.
• 28:31
  Speaker 9: Is just making it more and more expensive for these books.
• 28:35
  Speaker 8: So I don't have the answers, I'm not paid to
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: have the answers, but I know that it's going to
• 28:42
  Speaker 8: look a lot different in five ten years for sure.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: This is probably something important for us to understand because
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: we're in the pocket the corner of the internet where
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: we are where people go to seek out sports betting information.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: When you've talked to your students about this about the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: presentation of sports, have they made it clear what they
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: don't like about how sports betting has been embedded, re
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: embedded into the way that sports betting is in all
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: of these broadcasts. Is there a specific thing that they
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: have pointed at.
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the suddenness of the
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: way it's been baked into broadcast I think has been
• 29:20
  Speaker 8: jarring for some of them. And so there's definitely a
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: faction of young people who just have no interest in
• 29:26
  Speaker 8: betting at all.
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: Right, then you have like the the.
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: Small parlay players who kind of go here and there,
• 29:34
  Speaker 8: and then you have like the heavy sports betters who
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: are really in the muck, right, They're mired in it.
• 29:38
  Speaker 8: They're they're looking day after day. And I think that
• 29:42
  Speaker 8: people who have no interest in sports betting, they're never
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: gonna go away. You're always gonna have those You're not
• 29:47
  Speaker 8: gonna get a hundred percent people betting on sports. They
• 29:50
  Speaker 8: just want the broadcast without you know, Keith Hernandez telling
• 29:54
  Speaker 8: them what money lines are in the middle of the
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: third inning, because they didn't have that for twenty years.
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: And so there needs to be some sort of some
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: sort of agreement where it's like, all right, we'll have
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: this a little bit for the people that want it,
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: but it doesn't have to be as in your face,
• 30:11
  Speaker 8: and I think it's gotten to that point in a
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: lot of ways.
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: The other aspect is.
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: Of the students who don't bet at all, is they
• 30:19
  Speaker 8: just get frustrated that when you know, they get annoyed
• 30:23
  Speaker 8: the same thing we get annoyed. It's like, I don't
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: really care what your parlay has been, Like you don't
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: have to tell me. Oh, you you almost say it
• 30:28
  Speaker 8: except for one leg, like cool, that's not interesting to
• 30:31
  Speaker 8: me because I have that story with students all.
• 30:34
  Speaker 9: The time, and so it's just the constant.
• 30:36
  Speaker 8: They want to watch sports to see the wins and losses,
• 30:38
  Speaker 8: and they don't care what their friends doing. But that's
• 30:40
  Speaker 8: you know, that's never gone way. We dealt with that
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: with fantasy sports forever. Right, It's like, dude, I don't.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Still do and that hasn't gone away. You don't want
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: to hear about anybody else's fantasy team. You only care
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: about yours.
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: The most interesting, Yeah, the most interesting team is your
• 30:53
  Speaker 8: fantasy team and the least interesting.
• 30:55
  Speaker 9: Is everybody else is whatever?
• 30:56
  Speaker 8: That is, right, But we still talk about it because
• 30:58
  Speaker 8: we're all narcissists and we like to talk about it,
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: and that's fine.
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: Also, that's not going to stop.
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: But I think we're getting there and I think students
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: will understand. They do also understand that betting is well
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: my students do, or is you know, endemic to sports
• 31:13
  Speaker 8: fandom and so going legal and then saying like, oh wait,
• 31:18
  Speaker 8: it's not legal anymore, it's just not going to happen.
• 31:21
  Speaker 8: And so what's kind of the happy medium where we're
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: going to come to And we're getting closer.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So much energy and focus is on the push to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. When we talk about legalization and PASPA. I'm
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: sure that there have been almost successful pushes prior to that,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: but I don't know about them. So I'm curious if
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you cover any of this or if this is just
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: information that you've been able to pick up on throughout
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: your research. Was there ever any progress towards legalization, say
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: decades ago, where it almost happened and then for whatever reason,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: there was a blockade.
• 31:58
  Speaker 8: I wouldn't say it ever got super close, but because
• 32:02
  Speaker 8: there were it wasn't like that federal law that banned
• 32:05
  Speaker 8: legalized sports betting. It happened a lot of places with
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: kind of just a wink and a envelope under the table.
• 32:12
  Speaker 8: So sports betting was going on in a lot of places.
• 32:15
  Speaker 8: Authorities knew what was going on, and they sort of
• 32:19
  Speaker 8: just allowed the entire thing to happen. And so, you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: I do have a really interesting story in the book
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: about how PASPA came to be. It's the first time
• 32:30
  Speaker 8: that anyone's really laid it out the way that it's
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: laid out. A lot of the credit usually goes to
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: former Nick Hall of Famer Bill Bradley. It's often called
• 32:40
  Speaker 8: the Bradley act. He was really a bit player in
• 32:44
  Speaker 8: the creation of pass been. There's another there's another senator,
• 32:48
  Speaker 8: a guy named Dennis DeConcini, who was working hand in
• 32:52
  Speaker 8: hand with the NFL to get passa past. And I
• 32:56
  Speaker 8: basically went into the archives of Dennis DeConcini, and I
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: found letters from the NFL to this senator talking about
• 33:04
  Speaker 8: why they wanted and how to really present this to
• 33:08
  Speaker 8: Congress to get it passed. And that was the first
• 33:11
  Speaker 8: time anyone's really ever told that story from beginning to end.
• 33:15
  Speaker 8: And I've gotten a lot of you know, the people
• 33:17
  Speaker 8: who cover this this industry are the ones that's the
• 33:20
  Speaker 8: chapter that like, that was really interesting.
• 33:21
  Speaker 9: We never heard that, but they're you know, in the past.
• 33:24
  Speaker 8: It's not like they ever got to the one yard
• 33:25
  Speaker 8: line and then someone vetoed it. But it was allowed
• 33:29
  Speaker 8: more because well, it was a lot harder to gamble
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: without the internet, right, and so the Caribbean changed a
• 33:36
  Speaker 8: lot of things, and the birthplace of the Internet changed
• 33:39
  Speaker 8: a lot. When you had to go to a person
• 33:40
  Speaker 8: or go to a place to gamble, it was almost
• 33:42
  Speaker 8: tolerated more because they knew there was a there was
• 33:45
  Speaker 8: a literal barrier to doing it. You have to go
• 33:48
  Speaker 8: get up and do something, or pick up the phone
• 33:50
  Speaker 8: and do it. So so I think that that emergency
• 33:55
  Speaker 8: of the Internet changed the way that the government thought
• 33:57
  Speaker 8: about legalization as well.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I found that kind of that section very interesting
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: as well. I think you draw the origin point kind
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: of or the spur of that back to Mark Davis
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: wanting to move the writers, which was kind of the
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: impetus for a lot of that, and walking people down
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: that path is super fascinating if you read the book,
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: which you should, and which is ironic given that the
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: NFL you go back. I was just amazed. I knew
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: some of this, but every all of the owners that
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: you know in the NFL, what did well Rooney Mara Bell,
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: they were They were all basically made all their money
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: and gambling and were just the big degenerates, the founders
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: of the NFL. One of the reasons I love watch,
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: I love reading nonfiction is and we take this for
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: granted now we have our phones at our side, is oh,
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: this is interesting. Let me let me look this up
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: and then maybe you end up getting another book. What
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: would you you know forty years ago you just find
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: something interesting. Man, I wish I could find more about that.
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: So from your perspective writing this book was if you
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: had all the time in the world, was there a
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: certain character or sidebar or story that you wish that
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: you or someone else would explore more That really pick
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: picked your answer interest.
• 35:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a good question. So, you know, the mob
• 35:21
  Speaker 8: stuff was fascinating. The mob stuff's been covered a million times,
• 35:24
  Speaker 8: and so like the fifties and sixties, a lot of
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: people have.
• 35:26
  Speaker 9: Written about that. I'm not a mob expert.
• 35:29
  Speaker 8: They're endlessly fascinating that that world. I would say the
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: number one part of the gambling history that I kind
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: of I touch on a little bit in the book,
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: the rise of the offshore books, is yet to be explored.
• 35:45
  Speaker 9: Fully, I think in the nineties.
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: The good news is I recently spoke to a betting
• 35:50
  Speaker 8: journalist named David Hill, which I'm sure, I'm sure you
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: guys know David Hill. He's written for Rolling Stone in
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: other places. He is coming out with a book in
• 35:58
  Speaker 8: the next couple of years that will charge the story
• 36:00
  Speaker 8: of at least one of the one of the guys
• 36:03
  Speaker 8: down there in the Caribbean. And so as they were
• 36:06
  Speaker 8: starting to found some of these books down there, it
• 36:09
  Speaker 8: was really another wild while west down there because it
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: was the emergency of the Internet, which is a fascinating
• 36:14
  Speaker 8: time which I lived through the emergency of the Internet.
• 36:16
  Speaker 9: It was crazy. We all had no idea what we
• 36:18
  Speaker 9: were doing.
• 36:18
  Speaker 8: We were logging on to al we were in weird
• 36:21
  Speaker 8: chat rooms and doing stuff that our parents didn't know about.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: It was a crazy time in the nineties. If you
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: live through it, you know what I'm talking about. And
• 36:29
  Speaker 8: to know that they were all these guys basically, and
• 36:32
  Speaker 8: it was mostly men at that time moving down to
• 36:34
  Speaker 8: the Caribbean, but there were some rearely prominent women and
• 36:37
  Speaker 8: there there's at least one book written about Saco in
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: the early nineties, one of the first real Caribbean offshore
• 36:45
  Speaker 8: pioneers that went down there, who was involved.
• 36:48
  Speaker 9: But I want those.
• 36:50
  Speaker 8: Full stories, whether or not we'll ever get them, because
• 36:54
  Speaker 8: there's I'm not sure they all want to tell their stories.
• 36:58
  Speaker 8: That's the one that I think would be the most
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: fascinating for sure.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, super interesting. The intersection of also the leagues and
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: CBS which became you know, the sports line and all
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: the money made there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 9: Super that's one of the stories.
• 37:12
  Speaker 8: I mean, I tell that one's kind of known, but
• 37:15
  Speaker 8: like CBS sort of owned sportsbook dot Com, which is
• 37:19
  Speaker 8: like when and they bought it for like three bucks
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: or something. Just they were surfing and they were looking
• 37:24
  Speaker 8: for open URLs and they're like, oh, sportsbook dot COM's open,
• 37:27
  Speaker 8: let's snatch that. See what happens because we an't know
• 37:29
  Speaker 8: what's happening in the next few years. And then they
• 37:31
  Speaker 8: were eventually it's it's kind of this whole story in
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: the book that I tell. But they eventually had to
• 37:35
  Speaker 8: sell it because of the pressure from CBS, who was
• 37:39
  Speaker 8: you know, airing who invested in the site and was
• 37:42
  Speaker 8: airing March Madness and didn't want to have that association that, man,
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: do we run a sports book.
• 37:48
  Speaker 9: That's crazy?
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: So and one fine course you mentioned March Madness, which
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: you could argue saved the bracket pools at one point,
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: maybe saved d one Sports. Yeah, can you set a
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: record straight on the actual origin of the bracket pool,
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: which I know you get into a bit.
• 38:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah, So you know, I almost hate doing this because
• 38:10
  Speaker 8: this is barn Staten Island who gets credit for the
• 38:13
  Speaker 8: origin of the bracket pool. And I love the story.
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: I think it's a great story. And and ESPNS reounted this.
• 38:21
  Speaker 8: The Washington Post talked about, Hey, these guys invented the
• 38:25
  Speaker 8: March Manness bracket pool.
• 38:26
  Speaker 9: This is where it's all started. It's just not true.
• 38:29
  Speaker 8: People were putting brackets together on high school basketball in
• 38:33
  Speaker 8: Indiana back in the nineteen thirties, and people who have
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: been doing these sorts of pools for years, and this
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: one was big and it had a big payout, But
• 38:44
  Speaker 8: the bracket pool was most like most things, people like
• 38:47
  Speaker 8: clean origin stories and this one just doesn't have one.
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: People have been putting together those pools, and they're almost
• 38:53
  Speaker 8: like parlays, right, You're just betting on a bunch of
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: things and hoping to win a pot of money at
• 38:57
  Speaker 8: the end for decades and decades. And it really started
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: in high school athletics, and then it moved to the
• 39:03
  Speaker 8: college ranks, and people were playing them in the in
• 39:05
  Speaker 8: the sixties and seventies across the country in offices, and
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: you know, there was I found one newspaper report in
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: the early nineteen seventies and about this guy and he's like, hey,
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: we all put in money on March Madness on the
• 39:17
  Speaker 8: bracket pool, and like flow from accounting one and she
• 39:20
  Speaker 8: doesn't watch basketball. And that's like the age old story, right,
• 39:23
  Speaker 8: It's like your four year old picks based on uniforms. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: and so based on you know, I want the Tigers
• 39:31
  Speaker 8: to win because I love Tigers, and so to think
• 39:34
  Speaker 8: that this has been going on for fifty sixty years,
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: it's fun.
• 39:37
  Speaker 9: It's a cool story.
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah. First time I moved to Lexton, Kentucky about let's
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: see eight, nine years ago. And I remember growing up
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: you would always bet on these offshore site. You could
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: always bet on big high school football games. Yeah, but
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: I you know, I didn't grow up in like a
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: huge hot at for high school basketball in college basketball.
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: But I went to the bars. I remember the first
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: year during the talkie as a high school basketball tournament's
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: really cool. It's like teams from all levels, uh come
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: to Lexington for a week and for the state championships.
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: But in bars there's people, Uh, there's lines and people
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: you could place bets. And I was and they said
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: that you've been able to do that forever.
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: People selling parlay cards out of their trunks. You know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 8: that whole thing that's been going on. And when people,
• 40:31
  Speaker 8: for whatever reason, when human beings see an athletic event,
• 40:34
  Speaker 8: they have this inherent, you know, motivation to say, hey,
• 40:40
  Speaker 8: you take that guy, I'll take that guy. Let's put
• 40:43
  Speaker 8: X amount of money on it. And I'm not a psychologist.
• 40:46
  Speaker 8: I don't know why, but it's there. It's in our souls.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: Okay, final question for me.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: At the beginning of our chat, you said that you
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: wanted to do something different than everybody else who was
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: focusing on the negative sides of sports gambling, and focus
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: on a little bit more of a positive scenario. What
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: do you think the positives of the growth of sports
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: gambling have been?
• 41:05
  Speaker 8: Oh, the positives of the growth of sports gambling. Well,
• 41:08
  Speaker 8: I will say that my book, I like to just
• 41:10
  Speaker 8: present the options and you can make your own decision
• 41:13
  Speaker 8: on whether this has been positive or neck. If I
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: actually have a chapter towards the end that says, hey,
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: here are the good parts. Here the bad parts. You
• 41:18
  Speaker 8: make your own call. You know, some of even the
• 41:21
  Speaker 8: titles of previous books have been very clear that they
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: do not support this. I say, hey, here's the history.
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: You make your own decision on this. So that's that's
• 41:31
  Speaker 8: the first part. That's the different perspective. The positives are obvious,
• 41:35
  Speaker 8: that more people are paying attention to stuff from a
• 41:39
  Speaker 8: you know, I'm an educator, I work in academia. Jobs,
• 41:42
  Speaker 8: there's jobs in this business. Sports have never been more popular.
• 41:45
  Speaker 8: To ignore the fact that gambling has played a role
• 41:47
  Speaker 8: in that is just you know, pulling the wool over
• 41:50
  Speaker 8: your eyes, because it's definitely a part. Every time I see, Hey,
• 41:53
  Speaker 8: it's just crazy, like ratings are upbringings have never been this,
• 41:56
  Speaker 8: and just yeah, a lot of people are gambling and
• 41:59
  Speaker 8: that's part of the and why, Like, let's not just
• 42:01
  Speaker 8: pretend traditional fandoms or are the ones causing some of this.
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: So that's a good one. The other thing is that
• 42:07
  Speaker 8: there's there's more people to talk about this stuff.
• 42:09
  Speaker 9: And you know, I do think.
• 42:13
  Speaker 8: I dislike any part of sports that leads to more individualization.
• 42:18
  Speaker 8: I think the communal part of sports is the best
• 42:20
  Speaker 8: part of sports, right, and so I love like.
• 42:22
  Speaker 9: I grew up tailgating. I'm went to Penn State.
• 42:24
  Speaker 8: Tailgating at college football is my favorite thing in the world.
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: You say you can be anywhere in the.
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: World, I'd say tailgating a college football game. I love
• 42:31
  Speaker 8: that community aspect. So anything that just leads to individualization,
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: I'm like a little against and maybe I'm kind of
• 42:39
  Speaker 8: becoming the old angry guy. If sports betting can be
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: more like this, where you're getting a group together to
• 42:46
  Speaker 8: talk about stuff, that's great. If you're sitting in your
• 42:49
  Speaker 8: house every single night, you know, playing tons of parlays
• 42:52
  Speaker 8: and not talking to anyone, I don't love that, right.
• 42:55
  Speaker 8: I wanted to lead to more community, so any aspect
• 42:58
  Speaker 8: of sports betting.
• 42:59
  Speaker 9: That's that's why I don't love there.
• 43:01
  Speaker 8: Was you know, you talk to the old timers in Vegas
• 43:03
  Speaker 8: and they're like sports books was one of the few
• 43:05
  Speaker 8: places at the casino where you can get together and
• 43:08
  Speaker 8: chaer for a common good and and have a party,
• 43:10
  Speaker 8: and that's cool.
• 43:11
  Speaker 9: I like that aspect of it.
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: And so if we can get to.
• 43:15
  Speaker 9: That point with betting, I think that.
• 43:17
  Speaker 8: Will help the regular part of sports, and I think
• 43:21
  Speaker 8: that'll make people more into sports in general, and then
• 43:24
  Speaker 8: you can have those.
• 43:25
  Speaker 9: Sort of more communal gatherings. So I think there's a
• 43:28
  Speaker 9: few few aspects there.
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, a lot of people are. I worry about that
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: too from a society perspective. I mean, my wife is
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: in the bar business and people are drinking last which
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: I think is so your healthier, you know, physically, but
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: people aren't getting together right in that communal aspect, we're
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: kind of losing that. So socially, what is the impact
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: there because people just I think we're becoming more and
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: more isolated with technology. But that's a conversation for another day.
• 43:54
  Speaker 9: Sure.
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: My final question is, you know, we look back at
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: history to try and learn from our mistakes and about
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: what the future may hold. Looking back at the history
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: of betting, did you change your mind or do you
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: have any new takes on where you think we are headed?
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Or do you think everything is just going to be
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: cyclical and we're going to have, you know, periods of
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: taxation and then moral cleansing, or you know, we need
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: to get rid of sports and we're just going to
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: keep repeating the same things that we've done, just at
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: a bigger scale. But did you come away with any
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: different takes than you thought going into this entire process?
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I almost would say that I'm more
• 44:36
  Speaker 8: in the cyclical conversation. And you know, sports betting is
• 44:39
  Speaker 8: sort of the punching bag at the current moment.
• 44:42
  Speaker 9: When I look at my college.
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: Students, there's a whole host of things that I'm more
• 44:46
  Speaker 8: worried about for them than their five dollars parlays, I
• 44:50
  Speaker 8: will say that much. And so right now we need
• 44:54
  Speaker 8: to grapple with this thing because it's new to a
• 44:56
  Speaker 8: lot of people, and it's not new at all.
• 44:58
  Speaker 9: To a lot of people.
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: It's so the people that it's new to are scared
• 45:03
  Speaker 8: of it, and they're like, this is this is not
• 45:05
  Speaker 8: something that I want as part of my life.
• 45:08
  Speaker 9: And I think.
• 45:09
  Speaker 8: It's you know, people compared to the opioid epidemic and
• 45:12
  Speaker 8: stuff like this, and doing this history, it's like, well,
• 45:16
  Speaker 8: people have been gambling forever just because it was a
• 45:20
  Speaker 8: little bit more hidden.
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: And so any conversation that goes to the.
• 45:25
  Speaker 8: Extremes is usually needs to be pushed back towards the middle.
• 45:28
  Speaker 8: And and that's sort of where I am a sports
• 45:31
  Speaker 8: betting and so I think understanding history of any topic
• 45:35
  Speaker 8: that we're talking about from a political or legal, or
• 45:38
  Speaker 8: an ethical or a moral standpoint, it's important. And so
• 45:41
  Speaker 8: that's why I'm kind of glad that I'm glad that
• 45:44
  Speaker 8: I wrote this book. That sounds awful, but it's I
• 45:47
  Speaker 8: think it's an important perspective to have, right, But in
• 45:50
  Speaker 8: terms of what the future holds, it's tough man like
• 45:54
  Speaker 8: I My opinion on this industry of what's going to
• 45:57
  Speaker 8: happen changes every day.
• 45:58
  Speaker 9: Just like your guys.
• 46:00
  Speaker 8: You have no idea what's going to happen from a
• 46:02
  Speaker 8: legal perspective mostly, but I guess the only thing is that, Yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 8: I don't want the communal aspects of sports fandom to
• 46:13
  Speaker 8: be diminished because of the increased individualization of the fan experience.
• 46:19
  Speaker 8: That's my biggest takeaway from this, and so I encourage
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: my students to say, Hey, think about like what you
• 46:24
  Speaker 8: can do in arena to not isolate people. Think about
• 46:27
  Speaker 8: what you could do on TV to form these groups
• 46:30
  Speaker 8: because you know, I don't know where you guys are,
• 46:33
  Speaker 8: but I was really hard.
• 46:34
  Speaker 9: And just I'm a big nick fan. I'm sorry.
• 46:36
  Speaker 8: We've talked a lot about the NIXT, but like just
• 46:37
  Speaker 8: seeing people celebrate that victory and people coming together, that
• 46:41
  Speaker 8: was cool.
• 46:42
  Speaker 9: I enjoyed that.
• 46:43
  Speaker 8: I thought that was great to have that sort of
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: expression of pride and joy.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Fascinating dialogue.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Go and pick up the book, An Unexpected History of
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Sports Betting Over Under is the title. David Bakino has
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: been our guest today on the Faceavorites podcasts. I could,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I think all of us could talk to you for
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: another hour on this, but we'll respect your time and
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: call it a day. Congrats on the book and we'll
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: chat again soon.
• 47:08
  Speaker 9: Hey, thanks for having me appreciate its fun.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: In honor of our guests this week who wrote a
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: book called over Under it is time to plant the Flag,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: presented by DraftKings on a season long player prop over
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: under Mind the flag and it shut up.
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to plant my flag here.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're really planning your flag and that thing, Pendra,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: we start with you.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, So you guys have been giving me shit all year,
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: but I would like to do a check up on
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: something that has changed. I am running back the Browns
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: over for this season. It has gone from six and
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: a half to five and a half, assuming because of
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: the Miles Garrett move. I know I'm not a Deshaun
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Watson stan I think it's gonna be him.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: I hope it's not.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Regardless, I'm taking me over. I think this team is
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: a lot better. They're gonna be my pywords of the year.
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: You know, love it or hate it, it is what
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: it is.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: I am all over the Browns this year. I'm doubling
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: down now that it's at five and a half. This team,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: this team could win seven games. I don't care that
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Miles Garrett has gone Jared Verse rules. They won this,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: they won this whole dispute. I don't care. I think
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: this team's gonna low key be sick like God.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I as if we needed any more reason to want
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: to see the Cleveland Browns lose. You doubling down on them.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, I think it's more like tripling down on them.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: And on a day where I said give me your
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: best player prop over under, you still hit me with
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns. I'm sick over it, stucky, and it
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: was a move.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: That I noticed on the app I had to do
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: with you guys.
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go Michael Wilson under seven hundred and forty
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: nine and a half for seeding yards. Let's sell high
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: after as one thousand yards season. Canna remember with these
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: over unders, you also got to stay healthy. Played all
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: seventeen games last year. You know if he has an injury,
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: it's gonna be tough to get over this. There's an
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: un who knows who's playing quarterback for how many games?
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: With an unsettled QB situation in Arizona. So let's uh,
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: let's sell high on Wilson and go under his receiving
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: total for the season.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: If you want a real player prop that I'm looking at,
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: BTJ has beefed up.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: No, don't hit me with a BTJ over. Just stick
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: with your just stick with your team total.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: On the Browns.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: You are not to jag off later this year. If
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: you're gonna give me shit right now, I am all in.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: On the Jags. But Brian Thomas Junior is not the
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: reason why.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: But you know, to the Cardinals point, maybe Marvin Harrison
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Junior decides to join the party and that would help
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: an under on Michael Wilson. I am gonna go with
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: over seven and a half rushing touchdowns for Omarion Hampton
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: at minus one twenty five. And Mike we trust, love
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Mike McDaniel. He was a run game coordinator at heart.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: He's gonna help to unlock Hampton. This offensive line should
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: be healthy. They were the opposite of that last year.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I like him to get double digit touchdowns. Here, give
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: me the Bolts back over seven and a half touchdowns
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: on the ground. You can go and place all of
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: these wagers over on the beautiful and luxurious Draft Kings
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: sports app that'll do it for us today.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: The favorites will return.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, right here on the Action Network YouTube
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: page and wherever you download your favorite podcast. Our Show Today,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: presented by Draft Kings, The Crown is yours.
• 50:37
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• 50:44
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