Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Saharan Sands to a Global CEO: A leadership Discussion with Rachelle Croft

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Saharan Sands to a Global CEO: A leadership Discussion with Rachelle Croft · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
0:08
Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Rachelle Croft. We've
0:12
Speaker 1: had her on the podcast numerous times and different capacities,
0:16
Speaker 1: but it's always fun to have you on the podcast
0:19
Speaker 1: with me and we get to talk about some really
0:21
Speaker 1: cool stuff today like the Rebel We get to talk
0:24
Speaker 1: about leadership and travel. So thanks Rochelle for being back
0:28
Speaker 1: on the podcast with me.
0:29
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thanks for having me.
0:31
Speaker 3: It's fun totally in a hot minute, since I've done
0:34
Speaker 3: a podcast, it is.
0:35
Speaker 1: I think the last time that we did a podcast
0:37
Speaker 1: it was with Clay Too, and we all ended up
0:39
Speaker 1: crying at some point. So we did We're we're not
0:42
Speaker 1: going to cry that. Let's hope we don't cry. You
0:44
Speaker 1: never you never know, you never know, you never know.
0:47
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's they're hopefully they're happy tears.
0:48
Speaker 4: Yeah.
0:49
Speaker 1: So I would love to talk first about your recent
0:52
Speaker 1: experience with Rebel. The Rebel Rally is something that Overland
0:55
Speaker 1: Journal really believes in. We've been a sponsor of the
0:59
Speaker 1: event since the very first year. I believe they just
1:02
Speaker 1: celebrated a big milestone themselves. So let's talk about how
1:07
Speaker 1: did you first get connected in with the Rebel Rally.
1:11
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your personal interest in the event, why
1:13
Speaker 1: you think it's important for the industry, and then your
1:16
Speaker 1: recent experience in the race. This content is brought to
1:22
Speaker 1: you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The
1:27
Speaker 1: magazine was founded in two thousand and six with the
1:31
Speaker 1: goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews, along with
1:35
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2:18
Speaker 3: Yeah sounds good. So this was a tenth year of
2:22
Speaker 3: the Rebel Rally, which.
2:23
Speaker 4: Is wild, that's crazy to think.
2:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had the.
2:26
Speaker 3: Privilege of being one of the first the ogs in
2:29
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, which was really an honor and very exciting,
2:32
Speaker 3: but when I first got into it. I got into
2:34
Speaker 3: the Rebel through Emily Miller, who's the creator of The Rebel.
2:37
Speaker 3: I think you've also had her on the podcast. Yeah,
2:39
Speaker 3: she's a phenomenal woman, one of my dear friends as well.
2:43
Speaker 3: We met back in twenty eleven. She actually met Clay
2:47
Speaker 3: first and told him about the rally in Morocco. The
2:51
Speaker 3: rally is Shadegazel's to which I participated in three times.
2:56
Speaker 3: It completely changed my life for the better. It shook
2:58
Speaker 3: me up really good, and I just needed that challenge
3:01
Speaker 3: in my life to know what I was still capable
3:03
Speaker 3: of doing. And so that led her to just really
3:07
Speaker 3: being passionate about those kind of events, especially tailored for women,
3:11
Speaker 3: to give them more of an outlet and a voice
3:13
Speaker 3: and to challenge ourselves in that capacity. So her first
3:19
Speaker 3: the first Rebel was in twenty sixteen. Of course, she
3:22
Speaker 3: reached out to me and said, hey, we're doing it,
3:24
Speaker 3: are you in. I was so excited to be able
3:27
Speaker 3: to participate in one in America because going to Morocco
3:30
Speaker 3: is a massive commitment.
3:32
Speaker 2: It's very expensive.
3:33
Speaker 3: It's three to four weeks of your time of your year,
3:37
Speaker 3: full time job, shipping vehicles all the things. So I
3:40
Speaker 3: was so excited to hear she was doing one in
3:42
Speaker 3: the States and she's her and her team have done
3:45
Speaker 3: a phenomenal job. She has grown it into an amazing event.
3:48
Speaker 3: There was a lot of OEM participation which led me
3:51
Speaker 3: to so I competed in twenty sixteen.
3:54
Speaker 2: Twenty nineteen. My teammate and.
3:56
Speaker 3: I, Taylor Polly, actually came in first that year ALEXISDX for.
4:01
Speaker 4: Sixty I remember it.
4:02
Speaker 3: Ohone stock, which was pretty cool, was super cool. A
4:05
Speaker 3: lot of jeep owners don't believe me.
4:06
Speaker 2: I say that, No, really, I didn't.
4:09
Speaker 4: I haven't seen you drive.
4:11
Speaker 3: And then twenty twenty we came back and participated in
4:15
Speaker 3: the J twelve one built that Exoblin did for Lexis
4:18
Speaker 3: built on the Lex five to seventy platform at that time.
4:21
Speaker 3: We came in second that year, and then I hosted
4:25
Speaker 3: live hosted the event in twenty twenty one, which is
4:27
Speaker 3: an amazing experience.
4:29
Speaker 2: Very hard. Yeah, oh my word.
4:31
Speaker 3: I have so much respect for live hosts.
4:32
Speaker 2: Holy cow.
4:33
Speaker 3: And then I took five years off and so this
4:36
Speaker 3: was the first year. Taylor and I came back in
4:38
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. Yeah, that was twenty twenty five. We're
4:41
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six now. And another really cool thing
4:45
Speaker 3: was just a dream come true, is that Toyota actually
4:47
Speaker 3: tapped us and asked us to be their first external
4:50
Speaker 3: official Toyota team.
4:52
Speaker 4: Wow.
4:52
Speaker 3: And so we rallied in the twenty twenty five for
4:55
Speaker 3: Runner Trail Hunter.
4:56
Speaker 4: What a neat car to do that.
4:57
Speaker 1: In II, the last time that you and I did
5:00
Speaker 1: a trip together was in Big Ben and I remember
5:03
Speaker 1: you jumping the TRD Pro Forerunner, so you seemed very
5:08
Speaker 1: much at home at home in a Forerunner. Let me
5:12
Speaker 1: ask a little bit around when you talked about the
5:16
Speaker 1: Ayisha de Gazelle and you talked about the need or
5:19
Speaker 1: the feeling, this need to do something hard. Let's talk
5:22
Speaker 1: a little bit about what you'd like to share around
5:24
Speaker 1: that time of your life and not only what did
5:27
Speaker 1: that event do for you, but how you can encourage
5:30
Speaker 1: other women other people to get themselves involved with doing
5:36
Speaker 1: really challenging things like that. So let's talk a little
5:38
Speaker 1: bit about what brought you to that point.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was in my first one was in
5:43
Speaker 3: twenty twelve. I heard about it in twenty eleven, which
5:46
Speaker 3: was the first year we were actually debuting ex Overland,
5:49
Speaker 3: which is when Clay also met you at the same event.
5:52
Speaker 3: Was the event you met Emily Miller. At that point,
5:55
Speaker 3: Eli would have been one, and then Rider two, and
6:01
Speaker 3: Cyrus is about four and a half, so three young
6:05
Speaker 3: boys at home. We were trying to start a business,
6:07
Speaker 3: another business with Exoverland. We already had a very small
6:10
Speaker 3: film business. And since Clay and I met in high school,
6:14
Speaker 3: a lot of people know this, but we met in
6:15
Speaker 3: high school sweethearts, best friends. I got married when I
6:19
Speaker 3: was twenty, he was twenty one, and then we had
6:21
Speaker 3: Cyrus when I was twenty one. Sure, so it was
6:24
Speaker 3: just I had no time to kind of step away
6:28
Speaker 3: or travel by myself figure out who I was or
6:31
Speaker 3: who what my identity was. So at that time it
6:35
Speaker 3: all just kept rolling, because once you have one kid,
6:37
Speaker 3: we're like, well, might as well keep this going, we'll.
6:40
Speaker 2: Knock the other ones out.
6:42
Speaker 3: So it rolls into the next pregnancy and the next kid,
6:46
Speaker 3: and then business gets harder and you're broke, and it's
6:49
Speaker 3: a lot of struggle, and I just had no idea
6:53
Speaker 3: who I was anymore. I'd been dealing with a little
6:56
Speaker 3: bit of probably postpartum or just normal depression at that time.
7:02
Speaker 3: I'd had very challenging things in my past regarding sexual abuse,
7:06
Speaker 3: and it was all kind of coming to this head.
7:10
Speaker 3: And I could even pin it back to one night
7:13
Speaker 3: and I just looked at myself in the mirror one night,
7:15
Speaker 3: and I remember sitting there and I just thought, I
7:18
Speaker 3: am not the person who I want to be. I
7:21
Speaker 3: am miserable. And it's not anybody's fault, like it's nothing
7:24
Speaker 3: anybody has done. I'm just not I don't have joy,
7:27
Speaker 3: I'm not happy, I'm not fulfilled. I need to shake.
7:32
Speaker 2: My life up a little bit.
7:34
Speaker 3: And Clay has always been so supportive. We had a
7:36
Speaker 3: lot of conversations, and he brought back that postcard for
7:40
Speaker 3: the rally from Emily. And I've always been adventurous. I
7:43
Speaker 3: grew up in Montana, of course, by bakers, in a
7:46
Speaker 3: log house. My parents still live there. I grew up
7:50
Speaker 3: outside constantly. I was always building forts. I chased my
7:53
Speaker 3: brother around relentlessly, and it was just all adventure. And
7:57
Speaker 3: so then moving into that season, one of Clay and
8:00
Speaker 3: I's plans when we got married was to travel the
8:02
Speaker 3: world together, and then we ended up having Cyrus, and
8:05
Speaker 3: all of those plans kind of came to a halt.
8:08
Speaker 3: As they do, which was fine, but I just never
8:10
Speaker 3: got that experience. So you fast forward to that time
8:13
Speaker 3: and I just kind of buried. I don't know if
8:16
Speaker 3: I buried it, but it was just sitting silently inside myself,
8:19
Speaker 3: I think, for a really long time. And so Clay
8:24
Speaker 3: brought that post guard from Emily about this rally for
8:26
Speaker 3: women in Morocco, and I was like, whatever, yeah, right,
8:31
Speaker 3: you know, I could never do that. And then the
8:35
Speaker 3: more I thought about it, it was pretty cool. We
8:36
Speaker 3: were actually at Sema. Brian McVicker's was there, Max Track's
8:40
Speaker 3: reps were there. That's where I met my very first teammate,
8:43
Speaker 3: and it was really cool because all of these men
8:46
Speaker 3: actually surrounded us and said, you girls gotta do this.
8:48
Speaker 3: This is epic, this is so cool. Yeah, And of
8:51
Speaker 3: course the first response is, well, I've never done anything
8:55
Speaker 3: like that.
8:55
Speaker 2: How would I even know where to begin. There's no
8:57
Speaker 2: way I could do that.
8:58
Speaker 3: Sure, and a little bit of whenouragement and stoke and
9:01
Speaker 3: it was like all of a sudden something clicked inside
9:04
Speaker 3: me and I thought, I need to do this for myself.
9:07
Speaker 3: I need to see what I'm capable of. Because there
9:09
Speaker 3: was also this comment on the card the sphrase and
9:12
Speaker 3: it said the world's longest and most challenging off road rally,
9:17
Speaker 3: and that was actually what sold me on it, which
9:20
Speaker 3: is odd, I know, but I saw that. And I'm
9:24
Speaker 3: definitely the personality that looks at a challenge and thinks,
9:28
Speaker 3: or if someone tells me I can't do something, sure,
9:30
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, oh, challenge accepted.
9:32
Speaker 2: Just watch me.
9:33
Speaker 4: Yeah sure.
9:34
Speaker 3: And so I think that that competitive switch and me
9:36
Speaker 3: also clicked, which I hadn't had an outlet for in
9:39
Speaker 3: a really long time, and so I just I knew
9:41
Speaker 3: I had to do it. So I had to figure
9:43
Speaker 3: it out.
9:44
Speaker 1: And that's a big it's a really big thing to do.
9:47
Speaker 1: And if you look at your life since you made
9:50
Speaker 1: that decision, which of course having children and being a
9:54
Speaker 1: family is a really big thing and a.
9:55
Speaker 4: Really important thing too.
9:56
Speaker 1: Absolutely the world needs that, we all need that, we
9:59
Speaker 1: all need family in our life. But for you to
10:02
Speaker 1: personally decide to not only do something new, but to
10:05
Speaker 1: do something really big, I'm a big believer in that.
10:09
Speaker 1: I think that I think that big things take almost
10:11
Speaker 1: as much effort a little bit more, but they they're
10:13
Speaker 1: pretty much the same as something that's kind of medium.
10:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, hard, I agree.
10:19
Speaker 4: Go do something big.
10:20
Speaker 1: And if you look at your life and you look
10:22
Speaker 1: at x Overland, like ever since that point, you have
10:26
Speaker 1: done one big thing after another because you're not afraid
10:29
Speaker 1: to try.
10:29
Speaker 2: That's true.
10:30
Speaker 4: Yeah.
10:30
Speaker 1: It set you, It sets you up to be able
10:33
Speaker 1: to do big things. Yeah, by taking that first leap.
10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was funny.
10:38
Speaker 3: I've I've gone through many, many years of counseling, and
10:40
Speaker 3: I remember one year my counsel are just looking at
10:42
Speaker 3: me and he said, you know, most people, especially women,
10:47
Speaker 3: And I don't mean anything like, it's.
10:49
Speaker 4: What he said.
10:50
Speaker 3: That's what he said, you know, like and he wasn't
10:52
Speaker 3: meeting it in a bad way, but he's like, you know,
10:53
Speaker 3: most people when they get to a point in their
10:56
Speaker 3: life and they need to like shake themselves out of
10:59
Speaker 3: it or do something new. You know, they take on
11:01
Speaker 3: a new hobby. Sure, maybe they sell tubb aware or
11:03
Speaker 3: maybe they start crocheting or take a horse back riding class.
11:08
Speaker 3: He's like, you felt like you needed to raise money,
11:12
Speaker 3: ship a car, fly halfway across the world, and compete
11:15
Speaker 3: in this rally.
11:16
Speaker 2: For nine days. And even he was a little like,
11:20
Speaker 2: that's that's all.
11:21
Speaker 4: Intense, but it seems like it's what you need.
11:25
Speaker 3: It's what I knew, that's what I needed. And there
11:28
Speaker 3: are certain times in my life when I can pinpoint.
11:30
Speaker 3: I think we all have them, and it can come
11:32
Speaker 3: out of the blue, it can hit you out of nowhere,
11:35
Speaker 3: and it's probably a little spark that sits in there
11:37
Speaker 3: in simmers, and then for some reason, the pain is
11:40
Speaker 3: too great to.
11:41
Speaker 2: Stay where you are. Yeah, you gotta change, You gotta.
11:43
Speaker 3: Change, You have to make a change. And so that
11:46
Speaker 3: was my moment to just channing point.
11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, And well, let's dig into that a little bit.
11:52
Speaker 1: What what do you feel you learned from those first
11:55
Speaker 1: couple races that you find that you employ in your
11:59
Speaker 1: life every day and in your leadership of the overland collective.
12:03
Speaker 1: You're in one of the more notable leadership positions in
12:07
Speaker 1: the entire overland industry. What are some things that you
12:10
Speaker 1: learned from those races that you've then applied in leadership
12:14
Speaker 1: in your day to day now.
12:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, mental toughness for sure, and next overland trips teach
12:21
Speaker 3: me that a lot too. You just came off of one,
12:23
Speaker 3: but that ability to it's nine days of the actual rally,
12:28
Speaker 3: and that's not including the time before or after that,
12:31
Speaker 3: either of transiting and travel and figuring out shipping and
12:35
Speaker 3: all of those things. But about day three or four,
12:39
Speaker 3: being lost every day somewhere in the Moroccans, it sure not.
12:43
Speaker 4: Just easy to do. Even if you're not racing, it's
12:45
Speaker 4: easy to do.
12:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, no GPS, no, it's no GBS, no phones allowed,
12:50
Speaker 3: so all maps and compasses and it's not My navigation
12:54
Speaker 3: doesn't click easily for me either. But you hit that day,
12:58
Speaker 3: you're stuck, you're digging yourself out. And I can remember
13:03
Speaker 3: this moment of being somewhere. I think we're in the
13:06
Speaker 3: Chicago dunes four or five, and this French team pulled
13:12
Speaker 3: up and we were thinking we knew where we are,
13:15
Speaker 3: but weren't exactly sure. And we knocked on the window
13:17
Speaker 3: and she looked at us and was like you didn't
13:19
Speaker 3: know what you are? Drove off and we were like, okay, shoot.
13:24
Speaker 3: And it was at that moment and I was so
13:25
Speaker 3: tired because it was like five or six o'clock at night,
13:28
Speaker 3: the sun's about to go down, You've got these massive dunes.
13:31
Speaker 3: Dune driving at night is you don't want to do it,
13:33
Speaker 3: especially when you don't have GPS, And I just wanted
13:37
Speaker 3: to sit there and give up, and I could feel
13:41
Speaker 3: the moment where I had a decision to make, and
13:43
Speaker 3: I could decide to dig in and see what I
13:46
Speaker 3: was really capable of. Or I could sit there and
13:49
Speaker 3: be upset about it, pout about it, throw a fit
13:52
Speaker 3: about it, whatever it is, and not enjoy the rest
13:54
Speaker 3: of my time. And I chose to flip the switch
13:57
Speaker 3: in a good way and power through with my teammate.
13:59
Speaker 3: Tmate was amazing and so encouraging. We were in it together, sure,
14:04
Speaker 3: and it was that moment and then you kind of
14:06
Speaker 3: you flip the switch and then you kind of get
14:08
Speaker 3: past that wall and then it's all just it is
14:10
Speaker 3: what it is. At that point, you're like, yeah, whatever, and.
14:13
Speaker 4: You didn't give up.
14:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep.
14:16
Speaker 4: A lot of people choose to give up in those moments.
14:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that I carry with me a lot
14:24
Speaker 3: of just that ability to be mentally tough, choose to
14:29
Speaker 3: be positive when I don't want to be not saying
14:32
Speaker 3: I don't have my moments.
14:33
Speaker 2: We all do.
14:33
Speaker 3: We're all human, of course, But I keep going And
14:36
Speaker 3: that has taught me so much. When just day after
14:40
Speaker 3: day you're exhausted and you're tired, and you can't figure
14:43
Speaker 3: out the problem you're trying to solve, and you've got
14:47
Speaker 3: people that are around you as well that you need
14:50
Speaker 3: to treat well. It does no good to snap at
14:53
Speaker 3: people or bring them into what you're going through. So
14:58
Speaker 3: it's taught me a lot of problem solving in mental
15:01
Speaker 3: toughness and how to flip the switch when it when
15:03
Speaker 3: you got to flip the switch.
15:06
Speaker 1: How have you learned to treat yourself well? Because I
15:09
Speaker 1: do see you treat others well, But how have you
15:13
Speaker 1: learned to do that? Because in that moment you did
15:15
Speaker 1: you chose to be like, I'm I'm not going to
15:17
Speaker 1: give up. I'm going to honor myself and my decision.
15:20
Speaker 1: But like, what are some things that you've learned through
15:23
Speaker 1: all of these incredible expeditions that you've been on and
15:25
Speaker 1: all this racing and leadership. How have you learned to
15:28
Speaker 1: be a little easier on yourself?
15:31
Speaker 3: I have learned how to give myself grace because I
15:35
Speaker 3: hold myself to a very high standard.
15:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, I see that.
15:39
Speaker 3: And there was a season where I had to just
15:42
Speaker 3: make a lot of mistakes. It was in for whatever
15:46
Speaker 3: you believe, religion or God or any anything. For me,
15:49
Speaker 3: I have a very strong relationship with God. And I
15:51
Speaker 3: remember a time where he said, you need to make
15:55
Speaker 3: a lot of mistakes right now, and it's okay, Yeah,
15:57
Speaker 3: I still love you, like you're doing everything you can,
16:01
Speaker 3: but you need to learn how to forgive yourself faster
16:03
Speaker 3: and not beat yourself up for it and sit in it.
16:06
Speaker 3: And it was just this season, and I.
16:08
Speaker 2: Was like, that sounds terrible. I do not want to
16:11
Speaker 2: sign up for this.
16:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I practiced that a lot, and of course
16:16
Speaker 3: I don't always get it right. But that's the biggest
16:18
Speaker 3: thing that I've taken away and how to treat myself
16:20
Speaker 3: is I give a lot of people grace around me.
16:24
Speaker 3: We're all human, we all make mistakes, everyone has things
16:27
Speaker 3: going on that you don't know about. So that also applies.
16:31
Speaker 2: To me and my family.
16:33
Speaker 3: So how do I offer that same grace to myself.
16:39
Speaker 3: The other thing is, and I think this comes just
16:41
Speaker 3: with age and getting older, is you realize your limits.
16:45
Speaker 2: And we can't run.
16:47
Speaker 3: As hard as we were in our twenties and our
16:48
Speaker 3: mid thirties, so true, you know, like man, the hours
16:52
Speaker 3: we used to be able to work sure at Clay
16:53
Speaker 3: would edit till three and four am, and so being
16:57
Speaker 3: more mindful of Hey, no, I am taking the weekend off,
17:00
Speaker 3: or I'm going to get a massage, or I'm going
17:03
Speaker 3: to go take this trip with my friends or whatever
17:06
Speaker 3: those things are.
17:07
Speaker 4: Take a walk.
17:09
Speaker 3: Yes, So just learning those little things about yourself too
17:12
Speaker 3: that help just remove you from work because we I mean,
17:14
Speaker 3: we live in it. Our property is the business. Then
17:18
Speaker 3: you go to the ranch, and that's more business. We
17:20
Speaker 3: are constantly looking and staring at the business. Yeah, and
17:24
Speaker 3: so removing ourselves from it is really healthy.
17:28
Speaker 1: And it's so important to understand. And those that are
17:32
Speaker 1: listening that are younger and getting ready to embark on
17:34
Speaker 1: their own adventures of life, is that failure is the
17:38
Speaker 1: path towards success. Show me someone who's never made big mistakes,
17:42
Speaker 1: and I'll show you someone who's never accomplished anything of
17:45
Speaker 1: note in their life. And I have found that to
17:48
Speaker 1: be true. It's impossible to be a perfectionist or expect
17:52
Speaker 1: yourself to be perfect and to also be successful because
17:56
Speaker 1: we I mean, at least for me, because I've made
17:58
Speaker 1: so many mistakes in my life. Is that that's how
18:00
Speaker 1: I learned And you know the next time, I probably
18:03
Speaker 1: did it a little different because it's like that really hurt.
18:06
Speaker 1: The last time, financially or physically or emotionally.
18:10
Speaker 4: It really hurt.
18:11
Speaker 1: And I'm going to maybe I'll make that mistake less
18:14
Speaker 1: often in the future. And I think that is something
18:17
Speaker 1: that's really valuable about expeditions, overland trips or something like
18:25
Speaker 1: the rebel. You are going to make mistakes. You're going
18:28
Speaker 1: to get lost, You're going to make the wrong decision,
18:30
Speaker 1: you're going to get your calculations wrong on your distances,
18:34
Speaker 1: you're going to be off a little bit on your bearing.
18:38
Speaker 1: Even Nina total insane rock star, she gets lost. Yes,
18:42
Speaker 1: she makes little mistakes, but she just makes a lot
18:45
Speaker 1: less mistakes than other people do.
18:47
Speaker 2: It's so true.
18:48
Speaker 1: So failure is part of the way to the goal.
18:51
Speaker 1: And I can see that in you, is that you're
18:53
Speaker 1: you're willing to take risks because you're like, oh, I
18:57
Speaker 1: know what's on the other side of risk is rewar hopefully. Yeah,
19:01
Speaker 1: I mean, and it maybe the failure is the reward
19:04
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I've learned a really valuable lesson.
19:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. It's been really hard to I
19:10
Speaker 3: still like nobody wants to out and fail. That is
19:12
Speaker 3: the last thing we want to do and our brains
19:14
Speaker 3: will work so hard to not allow that to happen
19:18
Speaker 3: and to keep us in that comfort zone and to protect.
19:20
Speaker 4: Us protect our ego.
19:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you literally have to overcome everything your brain
19:26
Speaker 3: and your body is trying to keep you from doing.
19:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and go anyway.
19:32
Speaker 1: And a special thanks to Adrenaline Industries for their support
19:36
Speaker 1: of this week's podcast. Adrenaline is making some of the
19:39
Speaker 1: most exceptional expedition campers on the market and they are
19:43
Speaker 1: made right here in the USA. Jud and his team
19:47
Speaker 1: of skilled craftsmen are building overland trucks based on heavy
19:51
Speaker 1: duty American truck platforms, integrating comfortable composite living modules with
19:57
Speaker 1: high clearance forward drive. These trucks feat forty three inch tires,
20:02
Speaker 1: robust bumpers winches, and a conversion to single rear wheels.
20:07
Speaker 1: For their expedition trucks, they're building on extreme duty industrial
20:11
Speaker 1: four wheel drives like the BAE with four or six
20:15
Speaker 1: wheel drive, reserve payload capacity, and third world serviceability. All
20:21
Speaker 1: of this compatibility comes with one on one customer support
20:25
Speaker 1: and in the field training. Others take you far, Adrenaline
20:30
Speaker 1: Industries will take you further. Thanks again, Adrenaline Industries. For
20:34
Speaker 1: making this podcast possible. I'd love to dig in a
20:38
Speaker 1: little bit around you racing with a team member, a
20:42
Speaker 1: partner in these races. I suspect that a lot that
20:46
Speaker 1: you've learned from that has applied to your expeditions that
20:49
Speaker 1: you've done with xoverland and personally. What are some things
20:52
Speaker 1: that you've learned about being a good teammate and how
20:55
Speaker 1: to keep the team healthy, how to minimize conflict, and
21:00
Speaker 1: what are some things that you've learned that you think
21:01
Speaker 1: could apply towards people that are traveling with their partner
21:04
Speaker 1: or with a friend. What are some things that you
21:06
Speaker 1: learn from that?
21:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that's a great question.
21:09
Speaker 4: Rush or Cooker an event like that.
21:12
Speaker 3: Yes, expectations, expectations, expectations Yeah, early sure, early on when
21:20
Speaker 3: Taylor and I hadn't raced together before twenty nineteen, and
21:24
Speaker 3: she came out to Montana and we sat in a
21:25
Speaker 3: coffee shop and I asked her, Hey, what are your
21:29
Speaker 3: expectations for the rally? These are my expectations. Awesome, we're
21:33
Speaker 3: on the same page. How do we want to attack it?
21:36
Speaker 3: And we do this with people who come on expeditions
21:38
Speaker 3: with us too. We ask a lot of these questions,
21:41
Speaker 3: how do you act when you're hungry, how do you
21:43
Speaker 3: act when you're tired? How can we help you when
21:45
Speaker 3: you're stressed?
21:46
Speaker 2: What do you need?
21:47
Speaker 3: Do you be left alone? Do you need someone to
21:49
Speaker 3: give you a hug? Is there a type of food
21:51
Speaker 3: or drink that is a morale boost for you that
21:53
Speaker 3: we can have for you on the trip. Sure, so
21:56
Speaker 3: asking all of those questions about someone before you're in
21:59
Speaker 3: the middle of it and being aligned to have the
22:02
Speaker 3: same goal and we see this.
22:05
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've.
22:05
Speaker 3: Gotten this question a lot. But as well when couples
22:08
Speaker 3: are traveling and they're.
22:09
Speaker 2: Like, oh, it was the worst trip ever.
22:11
Speaker 3: All he wants to do is blah blah, bah blah,
22:13
Speaker 3: and all she wants to do is blah blah blah
22:15
Speaker 3: whatever it is. And so that's a great question. And
22:18
Speaker 3: even Clay and I will still do this of like, hey,
22:20
Speaker 3: we're going to go camping for two days. What do
22:23
Speaker 3: you want out of this? Is this just like chill?
22:25
Speaker 3: We're going to stare at the iPad all weekend?
22:27
Speaker 4: Sure?
22:28
Speaker 3: And by the river? Or are you wanting to hit
22:31
Speaker 3: a trail? Do you want to have a nice dinner?
22:33
Speaker 3: Do you want to cook the whole time, like all
22:34
Speaker 3: of those things, because you all are going to want
22:37
Speaker 3: something different, And then how do you make that plan
22:39
Speaker 3: together to say, well, okay, what if we can't for
22:42
Speaker 3: two nights and then we get a really nice hotel
22:44
Speaker 3: at the end, how does that sound? Or I really
22:46
Speaker 3: love waterfalls? Can we go find one of those? So
22:49
Speaker 3: having kind of those conversations and I applied that with Taylor,
22:54
Speaker 3: I ask all those same questions. I ask if people
22:56
Speaker 3: are introverted extroverted, how do they recharge? Because that comes
23:00
Speaker 3: down to do you need your own tent?
23:01
Speaker 2: Totnight? Do we share?
23:03
Speaker 3: And then, especially with me being the driver, she's the navigator.
23:07
Speaker 3: My job is to take care of her. And just
23:10
Speaker 3: like marriage, it's one hundred percent, it's not.
23:13
Speaker 2: Fifty to fifty.
23:14
Speaker 4: So you've given everything you got, given.
23:16
Speaker 3: Everything you have to that person. Sure do you need water?
23:19
Speaker 3: Do you need food? Like I even you know, you
23:22
Speaker 3: pick up their map board off the seat when they
23:23
Speaker 3: get into the car so they don't have to move it.
23:25
Speaker 3: So it's just as constant, how can I make your
23:28
Speaker 3: life easier? Because she is so mentally taxed the entire
23:31
Speaker 3: time that I am not. I'm doing the physical And yes, mental.
23:34
Speaker 3: I'm helping, but the mental load on her is extreme.
23:38
Speaker 4: So anything while the truck is shaking and you know, oh.
23:41
Speaker 3: My gosh, and you're trying to follow this tiny little
23:44
Speaker 3: yeah topography, it's I don't know how they do it.
23:46
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
23:47
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
23:48
Speaker 1: I remember when I started the trip across to Africa,
23:52
Speaker 1: Clay asked me that, and it's you know, it's the
23:55
Speaker 1: first because Clay was the expedition leader and I normally
23:58
Speaker 1: I ask other people that question.
23:59
Speaker 4: Nobody really asked me. So he says, he's like, what
24:01
Speaker 4: do you need?
24:02
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, if I get good sleep,
24:06
Speaker 1: I don't need anything else. Like the rest of it,
24:08
Speaker 1: it isn't material. If I start to suffer on sleep,
24:12
Speaker 1: then I will need other things. It gets more complicated
24:14
Speaker 1: to keep me healthy and engaged in operating at my peak.
24:19
Speaker 1: So I do realize that, and that was good for
24:22
Speaker 1: him to ask me, because I hadn't really thought of
24:23
Speaker 1: that of what I need. And I know that in
24:25
Speaker 1: my day to day I make sure that I focus
24:28
Speaker 1: on getting quality sleep, and if I do that, everything
24:31
Speaker 1: gets easier for me. So I know that about myself,
24:34
Speaker 1: whereas some people maybe they only need five hours of
24:36
Speaker 1: sleep at night. I'm not that person. I need like
24:38
Speaker 1: seven seven and a half. And if I get good sleep,
24:41
Speaker 1: then I'm super like happy, go lucky, let's go crush
24:45
Speaker 1: the world. But it falls off quickly if I'm not
24:49
Speaker 1: getting good rest. So I was really grateful that he
24:50
Speaker 1: asked me that, and then he told me what everybody
24:53
Speaker 1: else on the trip needs, and that way I could
24:55
Speaker 1: be looking out for like, oh, Richard sometimes he wants to,
25:00
Speaker 1: you know, go take a hike, or Pete needs to
25:03
Speaker 1: spend a loan time or what I'm making all that up. Yeah,
25:06
Speaker 1: you know, people need different things.
25:07
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah.
25:09
Speaker 4: That's so true.
25:10
Speaker 1: So what was tell me one of your favorite stories
25:13
Speaker 1: from the Ayisha de Gazelle because that's in Morocco, so
25:18
Speaker 1: it's very different from the Rebel. So when you look back,
25:20
Speaker 1: you know, this is about ten years ago, Like what
25:23
Speaker 1: was what was one of your favorite favorite moments of
25:26
Speaker 1: racing internationally in the Sahara.
25:30
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's so funny.
25:32
Speaker 3: Mary Hannah and I were talking about this the other day,
25:34
Speaker 3: how it's like you have all of these stories cataloged
25:37
Speaker 3: and it's really hard to pull them up and till
25:38
Speaker 3: you're like someone triggers a thought or a memory. Sure,
25:41
Speaker 3: So I'm going through my rolodex catalog of stories. There's
25:44
Speaker 3: I know there's several. The one, the one that comes
25:47
Speaker 3: to mind, I have two, but I think the one
25:49
Speaker 3: I'll share that comes to mind was our second year.
25:54
Speaker 2: And let's see.
25:58
Speaker 3: So we had rented a Toyta Highlux and we had
26:03
Speaker 3: no idea when we got there. We showed up, as
26:05
Speaker 3: you do with international rentals. You don't know what you're
26:08
Speaker 3: gonna get.
26:08
Speaker 4: Sure, get there.
26:09
Speaker 2: She's always surprises.
26:11
Speaker 3: This particular Highlux had a built out like wooden drawer
26:16
Speaker 3: system in the back.
26:18
Speaker 2: So the thing was so.
26:20
Speaker 3: Heavy, sure, crazy heavy. Not what you want in a
26:24
Speaker 3: rally car driving through the dunes, sure at all.
26:27
Speaker 2: But it's what we had.
26:29
Speaker 3: And so there was this point in the Sahara, and
26:32
Speaker 3: the dunes are always a very interesting mental challenge for me.
26:37
Speaker 3: I had.
26:38
Speaker 2: It was tough. I hadn't.
26:40
Speaker 3: I mean, I grew up in Montana. Haven't grown up
26:42
Speaker 3: in sand dunes. A lot of us have not grown
26:44
Speaker 3: up driving in sand dunes. True, but the first year
26:49
Speaker 3: I got really scared and nervous because I had the
26:52
Speaker 3: FJ Cruiser and it was the first time going through
26:54
Speaker 3: the Sahara. We didn't know how to navigate through the dunes,
26:57
Speaker 3: so we got lost for eight hours. Locals were funollowing
27:00
Speaker 3: us on their bikes and it was a whole thing
27:02
Speaker 3: hard experience. We found our way out of it. So
27:05
Speaker 3: carrying that over to the next year, I was still
27:08
Speaker 3: very just timid and didn't have a lot of confidence
27:12
Speaker 3: figuring it out. And we got and plus we had
27:16
Speaker 3: this really heavy high lux. So we got to this
27:19
Speaker 3: one section where it was just this big bowl and
27:23
Speaker 3: the team in front of me we teamed up for
27:25
Speaker 3: the day to drive the dunes, and they were in
27:28
Speaker 3: this amazing little sporty like L three land rover and
27:31
Speaker 3: just you know, side held and got all over like
27:34
Speaker 3: no big deal. So I looked at that and I
27:37
Speaker 3: was like, huh, I don't know how this is going
27:39
Speaker 3: to go. So it was the only way through. I
27:44
Speaker 3: had to do it. And you if you know sand dunes,
27:46
Speaker 3: you never want to get stuck in the bottom of
27:48
Speaker 3: a bowl, especially in the middle of Sahara. Sometimes you
27:50
Speaker 3: have to bring a helicopter to get your truck out.
27:52
Speaker 2: It's a thing.
27:54
Speaker 3: So I gun it and we go around the bowl
27:59
Speaker 3: and my back ends starts to slip, and there was
28:02
Speaker 3: I don't know if I could have saved it. I
28:04
Speaker 3: was still not very talented at that time, so I
28:07
Speaker 3: turned down into the bowl so I wouldn't roll the car,
28:10
Speaker 3: and then I got stuck at the bottom of this
28:12
Speaker 3: massive bowl and everybody, all the teams are lined up
28:16
Speaker 3: on the top just like, oh no, We're so glad
28:20
Speaker 3: we're not hurt right now, right, And then all the
28:22
Speaker 3: cameramen come up and they're just watching their like awesome action.
28:26
Speaker 3: So I just have this audience of people around this
28:29
Speaker 3: bowl and I'm sitting there with this heavy high looks
28:32
Speaker 3: in the bottom of this thing, which are also geared
28:35
Speaker 3: super low. Not a lot of high end power, you know,
28:38
Speaker 3: decent yeah everything, yeah, And so I hopped out. And
28:43
Speaker 3: the first thing I knew how to do was I
28:44
Speaker 3: was like, okay, I'm just going to take more air
28:46
Speaker 3: out of the tires. So I took more air out
28:47
Speaker 3: of the tires first thing, took them all the way
28:49
Speaker 3: down to like eight or nine or ten something. I
28:53
Speaker 3: usually run about fifteen sixteen when I can until I
28:55
Speaker 3: really need it, got the max tracks out, got unstuck,
29:00
Speaker 3: and then I needed to find momentum to get out
29:03
Speaker 3: of this thing. And I literally I actually have footage
29:06
Speaker 3: of it somewhere, but I just it was like something
29:10
Speaker 3: came over me, and it was that competitive.
29:12
Speaker 4: Edge that was like get an audience, and an.
29:14
Speaker 3: Audience, I was like, I am, and then I get mad. Sure,
29:17
Speaker 3: it's like I'm getting out of this thing if it's
29:19
Speaker 3: the last thing.
29:19
Speaker 4: Idea.
29:20
Speaker 3: Sure, And they all just kind of stood on the
29:22
Speaker 3: top and my teammate at the time someone asked her.
29:25
Speaker 3: They're like, is she going to get out of this?
29:26
Speaker 3: And she was like, oh, yeah, She's going to get out.
29:29
Speaker 3: And I just remember slamming it into first and slamming
29:32
Speaker 3: it in reverse and trying to go up and back
29:34
Speaker 3: it up and back to get a little momentum, and
29:36
Speaker 3: then I finally back up enough and then i'd slam
29:38
Speaker 3: it back in reverse because if I stopped for a second,
29:41
Speaker 3: I would just sink because it was also middle of
29:43
Speaker 3: the day, super soft hot sure. And then as soon
29:46
Speaker 3: as I could get up, and then I'd start just
29:49
Speaker 3: whipping around that thing as fast as I could gain
29:52
Speaker 3: momentum so I could spit out the other side. And
29:55
Speaker 3: I finally made it and got to the top, and
29:57
Speaker 3: I still had to get across the thing.
30:00
Speaker 4: Oh no, you had to go to the other side.
30:02
Speaker 3: Sure, So I stared at the bowl again. I was like, okay,
30:07
Speaker 3: we're just we just got to send it. And I
30:09
Speaker 3: was able to get around this time, had a little
30:11
Speaker 3: more gusto and confidence and just anger for whatever reason.
30:17
Speaker 1: But you were angry at that drawer system. I'm surprised
30:21
Speaker 1: you didn't leave it at the bottom of the bowl.
30:22
Speaker 1: I should have thought.
30:23
Speaker 3: I probably thought about it.
30:26
Speaker 4: How long would it take you to get this thing
30:28
Speaker 4: out of this? Trust serious?
30:29
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
30:30
Speaker 3: But it was such And that's what I love about
30:33
Speaker 3: those rallies. It's what I hate and love about it
30:35
Speaker 3: at the same time is I had no idea I
30:37
Speaker 3: was capable of doing that. But when you're put in
30:40
Speaker 3: that position, you're given the choice, and you get out
30:44
Speaker 3: of it, you solve the problem. Nobody was able to
30:46
Speaker 3: get down there and help me. I had to do it.
30:48
Speaker 3: I had to solve it and figure it out. And
30:50
Speaker 3: then you get to the other side, and that just
30:53
Speaker 3: confidence and the wave of relief you feel. Sure, the
30:57
Speaker 3: empowerment you feel from going through those situations is amazing.
31:01
Speaker 2: You're just on cloud nine.
31:03
Speaker 4: Well, and it maybe it makes some of other life's
31:06
Speaker 4: decisions seem a lot easier.
31:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like, at least I'm not stuck in a
31:11
Speaker 3: bowl in the middle of sa Her area.
31:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what an incredible experience. Now, let's talk a
31:18
Speaker 1: little bit about because after that, x Overland started doing
31:22
Speaker 1: more and more international travels and you've been on many
31:25
Speaker 1: of those trips. So have you found, now that you've
31:29
Speaker 1: done so many of the continents that there's a place
31:32
Speaker 1: in the world you really love to travel?
31:34
Speaker 3: Ooh, I love Africa a lot.
31:38
Speaker 4: That's very special.
31:38
Speaker 3: I really love Africa, the southern portion for sure. I
31:43
Speaker 3: haven't done the western portion that you guys just did,
31:45
Speaker 3: and I don't really feel I don't really feel the
31:48
Speaker 3: need to go do that.
31:49
Speaker 4: Don't blame me.
31:49
Speaker 3: Good but Morocco is amazing. But that southern portion of
31:53
Speaker 3: South Africa, Botswana and Namibia, I would love to explore more.
31:57
Speaker 3: Maybe go up the east side. I love it. I
31:59
Speaker 3: love the people. I love the culture and the joy
32:02
Speaker 3: that they have. I love that people don't get offended
32:05
Speaker 3: when you drive. It's true, yep, we're all just driving.
32:09
Speaker 3: It's fine, totally so road rage. I love the animals,
32:13
Speaker 3: I love all of the trails. There's so much to
32:15
Speaker 3: explore and there's a lot to problem solve along the way.
32:19
Speaker 3: You have that cultural aspect of it. Just going to
32:24
Speaker 3: get gas is.
32:24
Speaker 4: An adventure totally. And the food's so great.
32:27
Speaker 3: The food is amazing, It's very affordable. It's just I
32:30
Speaker 3: love it over there. I could spend a lot of
32:32
Speaker 3: time there.
32:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you. Africa is incredible. Let's
32:36
Speaker 1: pivot a little bit too. You've also traveled a lot
32:39
Speaker 1: with your husband and with your kids, so how has
32:43
Speaker 1: that when you think back on the trips that you've
32:46
Speaker 1: done with Clay, what would be some advice that you
32:48
Speaker 1: would give to other couples that want to travel together
32:52
Speaker 1: like ways that you feel like Claian, you've figured out
32:54
Speaker 1: how to travel together better.
32:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh man, if you can have two cars, take
33:00
Speaker 3: a break, sure, because those trips get long, those days
33:05
Speaker 3: are long.
33:06
Speaker 2: You're in a very tight quarters with them.
33:09
Speaker 3: Or if you don't have that option, it's okay if
33:13
Speaker 3: you need a little space at the end of the day.
33:15
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go take a walk. I'm just gonna sit
33:17
Speaker 2: here read a book. What are you gonna do?
33:19
Speaker 3: I'm going to tinker on the truck, you know, So
33:21
Speaker 3: finding those things and I know Richard and Nashley could
33:23
Speaker 3: speak to this a lot as well, but finding those
33:25
Speaker 3: things that still give you a little bit of that
33:27
Speaker 3: space and that freedom to be you is and communicate
33:32
Speaker 3: that like, hey, it's not you, I just I'm an introvert.
33:35
Speaker 3: Clay's an extrovert. I recharge alone. And so one communication again, expectations,
33:42
Speaker 3: What are the expectations of this trip? Do you want
33:45
Speaker 3: me to be with you every waking hour of this trip? Sure,
33:48
Speaker 3: because some couples do, and that's great, that's how they function.
33:52
Speaker 3: Clay and I spend a lot of time together. We
33:55
Speaker 3: work together, we live together, we travel together.
33:57
Speaker 2: Sure, it can be a lot at times. Sure I
34:00
Speaker 2: love them to death.
34:01
Speaker 3: But also just not taking also not taking things. So seriously,
34:06
Speaker 3: we've been working really hard on that the last couple
34:08
Speaker 3: of years. Because we do do big things, they have
34:11
Speaker 3: big consequences. We're taking big risks. But at the end
34:14
Speaker 3: of the day. We we have this conversation before Milestones
34:17
Speaker 3: this year because we both did the like the European
34:21
Speaker 3: and Nordic section together and we said before we left, hey,
34:26
Speaker 3: let's have fun, Like, let's not take things let's have
34:29
Speaker 3: more joys. Let's not take things so seriously. If we
34:32
Speaker 3: miss a shot, it's fine, Like it'll be okay. We're
34:34
Speaker 3: not curing cancer. Yes, we're gonna still do a good job.
34:38
Speaker 3: We both are competitive, we both have very high standards.
34:41
Speaker 3: But how do we have fun together and how do
34:44
Speaker 3: we be a team together? And so we work really
34:47
Speaker 3: hard at that. Even in the car all day of
34:51
Speaker 3: we're not nitpicking each other, We're not getting on each
34:53
Speaker 3: other's nerves. We're communicating if something is bothering us. And
34:57
Speaker 3: then finding those things that we enjoy doing together, Like
35:00
Speaker 3: we love going to find coffee shops together. We love
35:02
Speaker 3: food when we travel. So being able to share those
35:06
Speaker 3: moments together as well to create those memories even when
35:09
Speaker 3: we're with a group of people has also been really
35:11
Speaker 3: important for our travels.
35:14
Speaker 1: And you've also traveled so much with your three boys,
35:17
Speaker 1: and I believe that the industry needs to continue to
35:21
Speaker 1: support families traveling. What are some things that you've learned
35:25
Speaker 1: or if someone's listening and like, I would love to
35:27
Speaker 1: travel with my three kids or whatever, and they're like,
35:30
Speaker 1: what would be some advice that you would give someone
35:33
Speaker 1: listening around traveling with their kids.
35:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, almost same advice for couples, But bring them into
35:39
Speaker 3: the journey with you even before you leave. So invite
35:43
Speaker 3: them into the planning of it. Get them excited about
35:46
Speaker 3: what they're about to go.
35:46
Speaker 2: See.
35:47
Speaker 3: If one of your kids loves to hike, have them
35:49
Speaker 3: pick a hike they want to see on the map
35:51
Speaker 3: or look it up online and show them pictures, show
35:54
Speaker 3: them food or whatever gets them excited so that they
35:58
Speaker 3: don't feel like they're just being drug along on mom
36:00
Speaker 3: and dad's trip. And that's what we've always tried to
36:03
Speaker 3: do with the boys, and even on exo trips. They
36:05
Speaker 3: get paid to be there because they're working, sure, and
36:08
Speaker 3: they have a lot of expectations on them because we
36:10
Speaker 3: never wanted it to be well, I'm just along on
36:13
Speaker 3: a work trip again with mom and dad.
36:15
Speaker 2: Whatever.
36:16
Speaker 1: I saw that with Cyrus during the crossing of Africa.
36:19
Speaker 1: He just did such an incredible job. I was so
36:21
Speaker 1: impressed with him. Like he's ten, he was ten times
36:25
Speaker 1: a driver that I was at twenty.
36:27
Speaker 4: I mean he was.
36:27
Speaker 1: He did such a he did such a great job
36:29
Speaker 1: driving and he was he and he did such a
36:32
Speaker 1: great job on managing the backups of all. I mean
36:35
Speaker 1: he had a lot of responsibility, and he just took
36:38
Speaker 1: it in stride and he took responsibility for it if
36:40
Speaker 1: you made a mistake. And to me, it was one
36:43
Speaker 1: of the highlights of the trip was spending that much
36:45
Speaker 1: time with Cyrus and with Peter, two young guys that
36:48
Speaker 1: I'm like, these they're already off to the races.
36:51
Speaker 2: They're just amazing, isn't it.
36:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just both doing so well. Yeah, it was
36:55
Speaker 4: really it was really neat.
36:56
Speaker 1: Having younger people on the trip is something I realized
37:00
Speaker 1: I missed because I never had kids myself, so I realized, like, oh, that,
37:03
Speaker 1: like that would have been I can see why that
37:05
Speaker 1: would be really neat.
37:06
Speaker 2: It's so neat. It's so much fun.
37:08
Speaker 3: And I won't tell Cyrus you said all those things
37:10
Speaker 3: because it'll go to his head.
37:12
Speaker 2: I'm kidding. It's actually very humble.
37:14
Speaker 4: He is very humble.
37:15
Speaker 3: But that's the other thing is, even at a very
37:17
Speaker 3: young age, giving your kids some sort of responsibility on
37:21
Speaker 3: the travels, whether you're camping for one night or you're
37:24
Speaker 3: on a trip, give them things that they are responsible
37:27
Speaker 3: for that they can own. And it's the same with
37:29
Speaker 3: us humans and employment, Like we want that thing that
37:32
Speaker 3: we can own and have ownership over and show that
37:35
Speaker 3: we've done a good job. So even if it's as
37:37
Speaker 3: simple as hey, your job when we get to camp
37:41
Speaker 3: is to find firewood, that is your job when we
37:44
Speaker 3: get there, or your job when we get to camp
37:46
Speaker 3: is to look over the truck let me know if
37:48
Speaker 3: something's wrong. So you're kind of teeing them up also,
37:52
Speaker 3: and it's creating a team mentality within the family. Instead
37:56
Speaker 3: of Mom, I'm hungry, Mom, i'm this, I want this,
37:59
Speaker 3: I'm bored, you're in it together and then the parents
38:03
Speaker 3: get frustrated. It's if when that happens, it's always late
38:07
Speaker 3: at night, I'm bouncing around a little bit.
38:09
Speaker 2: But it just kind of.
38:11
Speaker 3: Helps curve that you're here to do everything for me
38:16
Speaker 3: mentality much.
38:18
Speaker 1: And then they're gonna learn and they're gonna learn something
38:20
Speaker 1: along along the way. Yeah, well that's a natural segment
38:24
Speaker 1: or segue into what I'd like to talk about next,
38:27
Speaker 1: which is around leadership. You know, the overland industry has
38:32
Speaker 1: continued to grow and you've been involved with it from
38:35
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Clay and you both, you know, you
38:37
Speaker 1: guys are coming into your sixteenth year with X Overland.
38:41
Speaker 1: You guys have made some incredible improvements to the industry
38:45
Speaker 1: and to your own business. We all get to work
38:48
Speaker 1: together now with Overland Journal and Expedition Portal being part
38:51
Speaker 1: of the Overland Collective, which you're the CEO of. But
38:55
Speaker 1: I would like to know what do you when you
38:58
Speaker 1: look at the industry right now, what do you think
39:00
Speaker 1: the industry needs to be paying attention to? What are
39:03
Speaker 1: some things we need to do better as an industry.
39:06
Speaker 1: From your position of leadership, where would you challenge our
39:10
Speaker 1: listeners and the businesses that are listening to this podcast?
39:13
Speaker 1: What are some things that we need to improve on
39:15
Speaker 1: as an industry.
39:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, community comes to mind first and foremost, the Overland,
39:21
Speaker 3: this community of overlanding and even just outdoor travel and
39:25
Speaker 3: outdoor community. I would say, especially the overline community, as
39:29
Speaker 3: we've seen and grow, is so important and integral to
39:33
Speaker 3: the industry as a whole. And it's so much different,
39:36
Speaker 3: I feel, than a lot of other industries, even outdoor sports.
39:42
Speaker 3: And I don't know, Clay usually explains it really well,
39:45
Speaker 3: but I don't know what it is to put my
39:46
Speaker 3: finger on why it's so different. But I think because
39:49
Speaker 3: it's so rooted in relationship and camaraderie, So getting our
39:56
Speaker 3: pulse back on the community aspect and not just the
39:59
Speaker 3: shiny gear, the shiny things or what we can have.
40:03
Speaker 3: We can go out and use anything to get outside.
40:06
Speaker 3: And I think the world, especially right now, everybody is
40:11
Speaker 3: wanting to go to their corners and pick sides. And
40:14
Speaker 3: that's what I love about overlanding as well, is you
40:16
Speaker 3: can have an amazing day on the trail with anybody,
40:20
Speaker 3: no matter what color, anybody is, what they believe, what
40:23
Speaker 3: religion they believe in, what they drive. You can sit
40:25
Speaker 3: around a campfire after being on a trail having an
40:28
Speaker 3: experience and create that memory together.
40:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, because the common thread is travel.
40:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're right. It can be done by any vehicle.
40:36
Speaker 1: It's not a jeep club. You can have drive pretty
40:39
Speaker 1: much whatever you want. Now, that makes a lot of
40:42
Speaker 1: sense to me. And we do require community within overlanding
40:46
Speaker 1: because we have to share information. So someone else is
40:49
Speaker 1: going to want to go do that trip in Southern
40:50
Speaker 1: Africa that you did, and they may need to reach
40:53
Speaker 1: out to you saying, hey, what did you think of
40:55
Speaker 1: Anzel's Pass or where did you guys camp when you
40:59
Speaker 1: were over by the Orange River or where and we
41:02
Speaker 1: do need to work together. I mean, even as our
41:05
Speaker 1: team was going through the milestone trip in Africa, we
41:08
Speaker 1: needed to connect with this WhatsApp group and ask questions.
41:12
Speaker 1: Someone had been there before us and we really needed
41:15
Speaker 1: their help. So you're absolutely right. Community and continuing to
41:20
Speaker 1: build and foster community is important.
41:23
Speaker 4: Yeah.
41:24
Speaker 1: And maybe we as an industry, because of COVID and
41:27
Speaker 1: all that, maybe we lost a little bit of momentum
41:30
Speaker 1: around community.
41:31
Speaker 2: And it's normal.
41:32
Speaker 3: I mean, there was such a boost in the industry,
41:35
Speaker 3: like it grew so fast, nobody saw COVID coming, and
41:39
Speaker 3: now it's you know, we've kind of leveled out. A
41:42
Speaker 3: lot of businesses have shaken out, and now we're in
41:45
Speaker 3: a time where there's a lot of acquisitions happening, which
41:48
Speaker 3: is partly what helped our decision for this, because we
41:51
Speaker 3: wanted to see that community still being fostered. And so
41:57
Speaker 3: the small businesses I think are becoming a little less
41:59
Speaker 3: in life because it is hard. It's costs have gone up,
42:02
Speaker 3: like it's small business is hard, especially in this industry.
42:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need a little bit of scale.
42:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so to be able to continue to stand
42:10
Speaker 3: out in that way and provide value education community, I
42:15
Speaker 3: think is what's going to keep the industry what it
42:18
Speaker 3: is today and hopefully grow it into something better.
42:20
Speaker 1: And I've noticed that in the mission statement that you
42:24
Speaker 1: have developed recently with your team is there's a lot
42:27
Speaker 1: of focus around inspiring others. So when we connect with
42:33
Speaker 1: social media, let's not be so critical, critical, or criticized
42:38
Speaker 1: so easily. Let's inspire others. Let's encourage others to get
42:41
Speaker 1: out and travel. Even if maybe they don't use the
42:43
Speaker 1: same vehicle you do, or you wouldn't choose make the
42:45
Speaker 1: same choice that they do, Absolutely engage and be encouraging
42:49
Speaker 1: towards other and employ as much kindness as possible. And
42:53
Speaker 1: then you also talk a lot about educating, so like,
42:57
Speaker 1: what are some ways that you feel like the industry
43:00
Speaker 1: can do a better job of helping others learn.
43:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, so education for sure is a big component. And
43:07
Speaker 3: again we saw that through COVID the industry got flooded
43:10
Speaker 3: and then a lot of people that went out to
43:12
Speaker 3: experience didn't know how to take care of the lands correctly.
43:15
Speaker 3: They didn't know how to properly take care of their
43:18
Speaker 3: waist in the wilderness, or that you don't burn popcns
43:21
Speaker 3: or beer cans in the fire pit, like all of
43:24
Speaker 3: those little things that I've grown up in Montana. That's
43:27
Speaker 3: just part of our culture here is that we knew
43:29
Speaker 3: but it makes sense a lot of people would not
43:31
Speaker 3: know that, and so what can we do even at
43:34
Speaker 3: the most basic level of leave it better than you
43:38
Speaker 3: found it everywhere you go. If everyone had that mentality,
43:42
Speaker 3: the trails would be looking pretty good. Yeah, and then
43:46
Speaker 3: I really see a lot in the younger demographic coming
43:48
Speaker 3: up as well.
43:49
Speaker 2: For education.
43:51
Speaker 3: We had writer who's seventeen and his friends were in
43:54
Speaker 3: the shop the other day. They bought their first airb
43:57
Speaker 3: bumper for his old Tacoma cool and it was so
44:01
Speaker 3: cool to watch them work through it and figure out
44:04
Speaker 3: how to install it on them by themselves on their own.
44:06
Speaker 3: They're watching YouTube videos on how to do it.
44:10
Speaker 2: You know.
44:10
Speaker 3: They dumped this whole like big bag of bolts, and
44:12
Speaker 3: their eyes just got super big because and I was
44:15
Speaker 3: in the kitchen they came in. We got in pizza,
44:17
Speaker 3: and they came in and they're like, thirty more minutes,
44:18
Speaker 3: we'll be done thirty minutes, and I was like, or
44:21
Speaker 3: three hours, you know, I know.
44:23
Speaker 4: How this is going to get I still get that wrong.
44:26
Speaker 4: I'm like this is totally going to be thirty minutes
44:27
Speaker 4: and three hours later.
44:29
Speaker 2: It's always three hours later.
44:31
Speaker 3: And so that's a big component that I get really
44:34
Speaker 3: excited about too, is seeing like young adults like Cyrus
44:38
Speaker 3: or the Boys, or travelers like the van Strelans that
44:41
Speaker 3: can also help educate younger demographics because they're the next
44:44
Speaker 3: generation that are that we want to inspire to do this,
44:47
Speaker 3: and they they seem to be very excited about wanting
44:50
Speaker 3: to learn, they're very teachable about it. So I'm also
44:53
Speaker 3: really excited about that.
44:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I believe that there's more and more opportunities
44:57
Speaker 1: to share our experiences with others to educate so that
45:01
Speaker 1: way people are making they're leaving places better than they
45:04
Speaker 1: found it. Like you talked about, I think that the industry,
45:07
Speaker 1: the more that we assume responsibility around tread lightley leave
45:11
Speaker 1: no trace, Yeah, and making sure that we are keeping
45:15
Speaker 1: these campsites open and these trails open, I believe is
45:18
Speaker 1: more and more important for our industry as we continue
45:20
Speaker 1: to grow.
45:21
Speaker 3: I for sure absolutely agree, and that's kind of the
45:25
Speaker 3: I forget the saying, but the more people we get
45:28
Speaker 3: interested in travel and that we inspire, the more people
45:30
Speaker 3: are going to be outside, So the more we need
45:32
Speaker 3: to take care of it, it's yeah.
45:34
Speaker 1: It does come full circle. And that's part of leadership,
45:36
Speaker 1: and that's something that I'm really proud of the overlaying
45:39
Speaker 1: collective is that you as are CEO, and the team
45:43
Speaker 1: as the whole has adopted that responsibility that we've got
45:47
Speaker 1: to be educating. We've got to be encouraging people to
45:51
Speaker 1: travel in the right way, educating them to do that,
45:53
Speaker 1: and then taking responsibility for these wild places that we
45:57
Speaker 1: get to experience so that future generations like writer, when
46:00
Speaker 1: he gets the chance to go to southern Utah, that
46:03
Speaker 1: there'll be someplace for him to go, absolutely, because if
46:06
Speaker 1: we don't take care of it, there won't. Those future
46:08
Speaker 1: generations of travelers won't be able to experience the same
46:10
Speaker 1: thing that you and I were lucky, yeah, to be
46:13
Speaker 1: able to experience. My last question for you, if you
46:17
Speaker 1: were to be able to have a conversation with your
46:21
Speaker 1: twenty two year old self, what would be some advice
46:24
Speaker 1: that you would give to yourself as an early traveler,
46:27
Speaker 1: as a young traveler, what would be some things that
46:30
Speaker 1: you've now learned after decades of exploring the globe and
46:33
Speaker 1: running an amazing business and all that.
46:35
Speaker 4: What were some things that you would tell yourself? Have
46:38
Speaker 4: more fun, more play. I agree with you. I don't
46:42
Speaker 4: have enough play in my life.
46:44
Speaker 2: I don't either.
46:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, and especially and that kind of goes along with
46:49
Speaker 3: even Clay and I have like it's we don't have
46:52
Speaker 3: to take it so seriously all the time, everything so
46:54
Speaker 3: seriously all the time.
46:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, how can we be in the present more and
47:00
Speaker 2: enjoy the moment? Put the phone away, don't take the photo. Yeah,
47:03
Speaker 2: just have fun.
47:05
Speaker 4: I don't do that enough.
47:07
Speaker 2: It's hard.
47:08
Speaker 1: It is hard to do that. I definitely need to
47:10
Speaker 1: do that more. I've been thinking about it a lot more.
47:13
Speaker 1: At least I'm being aware of it.
47:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
47:16
Speaker 1: Like it's just like even West Africa, it was always
47:18
Speaker 1: about like how do I keep everybody safe? How do
47:20
Speaker 1: we make sure that we don't get robbed? How do
47:22
Speaker 1: I make sure that we you know, we don't damage
47:24
Speaker 1: a car? How do I make sure that we get
47:25
Speaker 1: through the border. And and I just I just let
47:28
Speaker 1: all that stuff pile on and pile on on, And
47:31
Speaker 1: I didn't take as many moments as I should have
47:34
Speaker 1: to just like put down the phone, look at the sunset,
47:38
Speaker 1: breathe it in for a second and be like, how
47:40
Speaker 1: lucky am I to be here?
47:41
Speaker 2: Yeah?
47:42
Speaker 4: And I should have done a lot more of that.
47:43
Speaker 1: So for those that are listening, this is another thing
47:46
Speaker 1: Michelle and I have learned the hard way, is that
47:48
Speaker 1: we need to have more fun and we need to
47:50
Speaker 1: have more play in our travels. So try to find
47:53
Speaker 1: ways to incorporate a little more play into your own adventures.
47:59
Speaker 1: Do you have any call action for the listeners? Is
48:01
Speaker 1: there anything that you'd like to share or anything new
48:03
Speaker 1: that you'd like to share about Overland Collective for twenty
48:06
Speaker 1: twenty six, Anything that you've got coming up that you
48:09
Speaker 1: are excited about that you'd like the audience to know
48:12
Speaker 1: a little bit more about.
48:14
Speaker 3: The biggest thing we have coming up is the Milestones
48:18
Speaker 3: premiere on the Xoverland Side. You know, the collective is
48:21
Speaker 3: four brands. We have X Overland Ranch, expos and Portal
48:24
Speaker 3: sorry Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and each of those
48:28
Speaker 3: four things are doing amazing, amazing things this year. But
48:31
Speaker 3: the one coming up first is Milestones on the Xoverland Side.
48:35
Speaker 3: And as you've been talking about your travels through West Africa,
48:39
Speaker 3: you all just finished almost a three month stint that's
48:42
Speaker 3: driving the from Germany all the way to Cape Town.
48:46
Speaker 2: That's right, that is no small feet.
48:48
Speaker 4: It felt like a small feet.
48:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can still see the little bit.
48:52
Speaker 4: Of road where exactly there was so many miles.
48:56
Speaker 2: That's so many miles.
48:58
Speaker 3: And the team right now is post production on finalizing
49:01
Speaker 3: those ten episodes. I should call them each of film
49:04
Speaker 3: because they're like forty five minutes, because Clay can't help himself.
49:08
Speaker 2: Sure, so that's going.
49:09
Speaker 3: To start rolling out. I think the trailer releases end
49:11
Speaker 3: of February on YouTube, and then the season's sorry, the
49:15
Speaker 3: episodes will start rolling out end of March. Amazing, fun,
49:18
Speaker 3: super excited, and then the collective will be We'll have
49:22
Speaker 3: presence at so Cal Expo Expo SoCal.
49:26
Speaker 4: Overland Expo Southern California. We'll be there.
49:29
Speaker 3: We'll be there, and then we'll be at Expo West
49:32
Speaker 3: as well, and hopefully we'll be doing some workshops, especially
49:36
Speaker 3: with you and Clay getting to just do some more
49:40
Speaker 3: education and answer questions and just I love going to
49:44
Speaker 3: those events and just listening and seeing what people are
49:46
Speaker 3: up to. I love hearing their stories.
49:48
Speaker 1: Absolutely and ways that we can do our job better.
49:51
Speaker 1: Please always reach out to me on anything that you
49:54
Speaker 1: think we can do better on the podcast. You can
49:56
Speaker 1: also reach Matt so you can reach me Scott dot
49:59
Speaker 1: A do Brady on Instagram or Matt Explore on Instagram.
50:03
Speaker 1: If you have feedback for Rochelle or you'd like to
50:05
Speaker 1: follow her on Instagram. How do people follow you?
50:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, Rachelle, I think underscore craft. I can't remember if
50:11
Speaker 3: it's all on word or if there's an underscore, but
50:13
Speaker 3: you'll find me at Rochelle Croft on Instagram.
50:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they can follow your your races. You recently
50:19
Speaker 1: launched a new initiative which I think I just adore.
50:23
Speaker 1: It is start Somewhere. Yeah, so let's maybe talk real
50:26
Speaker 1: quick about that as kind of a wrap up.
50:27
Speaker 4: But tell me what starts Somewhere is.
50:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really all ties back to that first trip
50:32
Speaker 3: in Morocco exactly, and I looked at pictures of women
50:36
Speaker 3: with these wrapped trucks and they're driving uniforms, and I
50:40
Speaker 3: was like, oh, man, well I'm not that person, but
50:45
Speaker 3: I guess I'm here. So we're just going to send it.
50:48
Speaker 3: And everybody has to start somewhere for wherever they're at
50:51
Speaker 3: in their journey. Anyone in the world didn't none of
50:54
Speaker 3: us were born doing the things we do today at
50:56
Speaker 3: this age, or knowing how to do the things they're doing.
50:59
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, I remember my very first trip was
51:02
Speaker 1: across El Camino del Diablo in southern Arizona, which is
51:06
Speaker 1: only about one hundred and fifty miles, and I felt
51:08
Speaker 1: like I was in the camel Trophy. Yeah.
51:10
Speaker 4: I had a.
51:11
Speaker 1: Poor little Zuzu trooper that was completely loaded to the
51:15
Speaker 1: gills and a rack completely loaded to the gills, and
51:18
Speaker 1: I was towing a trailer. I had enough fuel to
51:20
Speaker 1: drive to Minnesota, you know, and I only needed to
51:23
Speaker 1: go go one hundred So yeah, the number of things
51:26
Speaker 1: that broke and failed and I got lost and made
51:29
Speaker 1: mistakes and all that other stuff, but you got to start.
51:31
Speaker 2: Somewhere for sure. And what a good story you have now.
51:34
Speaker 4: Yeah.
51:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's a reminder to all of you, please
51:38
Speaker 1: start somewhere, and also remember to give yourself a little
51:42
Speaker 1: bit of grace as you're learning, and to have a
51:44
Speaker 1: little bit more fun and play and joy along the way. Rachelle,
51:48
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast with
51:50
Speaker 1: me today.
51:50
Speaker 2: Thanks Scott, I appreciate you.
51:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, You're welcome, and we thank you all for listening
51:54
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you next time.
51:56
Speaker 2: So yeah,