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Interstellar Objects: 'Oumuamua, 3I-ATLAS, and more · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 76 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:32
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Now I guess our word or phrase is three eye atlas.
• 0:37
  I Hate Talking: Is that what we said it was going to be?
• 0:38
  I Hate Talking: I guess so.
• 0:40
  I Hate Talking: And tangently related to that is um mua mua, and then after that we'll be tangently.
• 0:47
  I Hate Talking: Yes, as in a tangent, as in something related adjacent in the same direction.
• 0:54
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 0:54
  I Hate Talking: So there you go, -- we've got that bonus word the -- umuamua umuamua.
• 0:59
  I Hate Talking: -- I like -- that, yeah, that one's a fun one to say, sort of like humuhumu nuko ukuapua, uh, our favorite restaurant.
• 1:05
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 1:06
  I Hate Talking: It is interesting that some languages have very different words for things that are simpler to say in English because it's simpler to me to say trigger fish, but I guess maybe not for a native Hawaiian speaker.
• 1:19
  I Hate Talking: It's not as fun.
• 1:20
  I Hate Talking: It is not as fun.
• 1:21
  I Hate Talking: That is true.
• 1:22
  I Hate Talking: So I guess we'll look up Umuamua first to see what that etymology is, but it is basically the name that was designated for an interstellar object that passed through our solar system many years ago.
• 1:38
  I Hate Talking: So let's check that one first.
• 1:40
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 1:41
  I Hate Talking: So in fact it is Hawaiian.
• 1:43
  I Hate Talking: So I guess the connection between Huahuma ukunukuapuaa and Aumuamua was correct.
• 1:51
  I Hate Talking: OK, but maybe quickly just explain what humuhumunukunu, oh my goodness, I can't even say it anymore.
• 1:57
  I Hate Talking: Say it again.
• 1:57
  I Hate Talking: -- You did a good job.humu ukunuka -- ua.
• 1:59
  I Hate Talking: -- That is a -- fish, yeah, trigger fish.
• 2:03
  I Hate Talking: I said that, yeah, and then it's also, it is also a restaurant in Hawaii.
• 2:09
  I Hate Talking: Is that what you're referring to, right?
• 2:11
  I Hate Talking: Well, we just said it and then moved on.
• 2:12
  I Hate Talking: So I was just saying, well, I was moving on because it was not our official word or phrase.
• 2:18
  I Hate Talking: It was a tangential word.
• 2:19
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 2:21
  I Hate Talking: And I think I'm saying it wrong.
• 2:23
  I Hate Talking: I guess it's oh mua mua, but nonetheless.
• 2:28
  I Hate Talking: It means in Hawaiian, a messenger from afar arriving first or advance scout.
• 2:36
  I Hate Talking: And how do you say it again?
• 2:38
  I Hate Talking: Oh muamua mua.
• 2:40
  I Hate Talking: I've heard it said um ua ua as well, but I guess you'd have to ask a native Hawaiian.
• 2:46
  I Hate Talking: So if there's any listeners in Hawaii, you can advise on that.
• 2:50
  I Hate Talking: I don't think we've ever had a listener in Hawaii before.
• 2:52
  I Hate Talking: Maybe this particular topic will catch their interest and they can advise on the proper pronunciation.
• 2:59
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that would be awesome.
• 3:01
  I Hate Talking: So that is the word omuamua -- and then the one that's been more recently in the news is 3 eye -- atlas.
• 3:10
  I Hate Talking: OK, so that means the same thing.
• 3:14
  I Hate Talking: Well, 3 eye atlas is not as clever as a name because the way that it breaks down is 3, the numeral 3 I.
• 3:25
  I Hate Talking: Dash Atlas, and the reason that it has the designation 3 is it is the third interstellar object that has been observed, the letter I for interstellar and Atlas because it was discovered by The ATLAS Organization, which stands for Asteroid Terrestrial Impact Last Alert System.
• 3:51
  I Hate Talking: That's a long name.
• 3:53
  I Hate Talking: It is.
• 3:54
  I Hate Talking: They had to combine terrestrial impact to make it into Atlas, so it does have a dash in their official name, asteroid terrestrial impact, last alert system, Atlas.
• 4:08
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 4:08
  I Hate Talking: So, 3I Atlas is, I suppose, I guess our official word of the episode, even though it's not really a word, it is a combination of 3 different designations.
• 4:20
  I Hate Talking: The third interstellar object discovered by Atlas.
• 4:23
  I Hate Talking: OK, so this is a recent thing or this is from years ago.
• 4:27
  I Hate Talking: It was discovered on July 1st, 2025.
• 4:31
  I Hate Talking: Is it the thing that like blew up the sky?
• 4:34
  I Hate Talking: No, the sky seems intact to me and no, but like social media, people were like seeing something.
• 4:43
  I Hate Talking: Is that this and they did a movie about it called Don't Look Up.
• 4:48
  I Hate Talking: Oh, that's a good movie.
• 4:49
  I Hate Talking: Y'all should see it if you haven't.
• 4:52
  I Hate Talking: That's a couple of years old, but it's still good.
• 4:54
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I guess it is right at this point in time.
• 4:57
  I Hate Talking: I didn't like it though.
• 4:58
  I Hate Talking: Did you?
• 4:58
  I Hate Talking: You just said it was a good movie and you said everybody should watch it and then you just said you don't like it.
• 5:03
  I Hate Talking: OK, that is, that is tricky.
• 5:05
  I Hate Talking: I loved it until the last two minutes and then I hated it.
• 5:10
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, is that a spoiler if I say I hated the ending?
• 5:13
  I Hate Talking: No, maybe it's a bit of a teaser, but you certainly can't say what the ending was, so that would be a spoiler.
• 5:18
  I Hate Talking: I, I like the ending.
• 5:21
  I Hate Talking: I mean it wasn't very like satisfying ending, but it was a thoughtful ending nonetheless but not satisfying -- that's -- true.
• 5:30
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 5:31
  I Hate Talking: So I mean, just watch it and then turn it off for the last 5 minutes, and then you're not disappointed, right?
• 5:37
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so, but I don't think many people will do that.
• 5:40
  I Hate Talking: No, but I wish I did.
• 5:43
  I Hate Talking: So if you're like me, just turn it off and then in your head, it's a great movie.
• 5:48
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think it was still a great movie.
• 5:50
  I Hate Talking: I don't know.
• 5:52
  I Hate Talking: So, the reason that we were talking a little bit about 3I Atlas last time was because there were a number of things within social media that perhaps were more trivial in nature with some of the jumbotron antics, so to speak, but that 3I atlas actually has a number of curious oddities about it that make it interesting and that was one of the things that we mentioned that it has caught the attention of Avi Loeb.
• 6:21
  I Hate Talking: who works at Harvard and some of the other interstellar departments of physics and things like that, and he has taken an interest in actually co-authored a paper in regards to this particular interstellar object.
• 6:36
  I Hate Talking: OK, this is one specific object he's viewing, right?
• 6:40
  I Hate Talking: Not like a reoccurrence.
• 6:42
  I Hate Talking: Correct, yes, this is a particular object that is moving at extreme speeds through our solar system and for all ways that we can observe it, seems to have originated far outside of our solar system.
• 6:58
  I Hate Talking: OK, I'm following so far, whereas most objects that we observe in the solar system are.
• 7:04
  I Hate Talking: From some sort of debris from the asteroid belt or moons that we can observe or comets that have a very predictable pattern and will reoccur.
• 7:17
  I Hate Talking: But this one, as far as I'm aware, does not have any sort of orbit that would bring it back within the vicinity of Earth.
• 7:26
  I Hate Talking: Because it's too far and we can't track, cause it takes too many years to actually track it, or because it's just rogue.
• 7:35
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think Rogue is more apt of a description for it.
• 7:39
  I Hate Talking: It's not necessarily moving in an elliptical orbit, but more of a line straight through the solar system.
• 7:47
  I Hate Talking: So, I guess we can cover some of the particular oddities that have been observed and I suppose that there is maybe some debate on these and it is not entirely certain that some of these conclusions are based on observable evidence because it is a fast moving object that is in the solar scheme of things, relatively small.
• 8:13
  I Hate Talking: So, I don't have necessarily conclusive evidence, but some of the oddities include that it is off gassing what is thought to be methane because of the color and the spectrometry of the light that is visible.
• 8:32
  I Hate Talking: OK, and by off-gassing, you mean like emitting or Yes, like a typical comet that has the tail, whereas it is quote unquote melting as it gets closer to the sun, that it is producing gasses that are not normal.
• 8:50
  I Hate Talking: Uh, the other strange thing that they observed is that the quote unquote tail of the comet is actually facing towards the sun.
• 9:00
  I Hate Talking: So normally you would have that tail that is in the opposite direction of the sun because that is sort of the direction that it's burning off, so to speak, but this actually at certain times points towards the sun.
• 9:13
  I Hate Talking: -- It's -- burning toward, huh, OK.
• 9:16
  I Hate Talking: So is it because it's not going quickly?
• 9:18
  I Hate Talking: Is that why?
• 9:20
  I Hate Talking: So, this is also another thing is that it seems to be, based on the calculations, changing course and slowing down and speeding up.
• 9:30
  I Hate Talking: Weird.
• 9:31
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 9:32
  I Hate Talking: I, again, I'm not an astrophysicist or anything like that, so I can't pretend to know a lot about this, but I feel like the closer you get to the sun, especially, The more the sun's orbit, right?
• 9:46
  I Hate Talking: Like, takes you in.
• 9:48
  I Hate Talking: So does this have to be a pretty big mass or something to be able to have its own trajectory?
• 9:55
  I Hate Talking: No, it's still relatively small.
• 9:58
  I Hate Talking: It's moving very quickly, and things that we launch into space like rockets to Mars or beyond, obviously have their own propulsion, but they can escape the gravity well of the sun and the earth and navigate accordingly around all the different planetary objects.
• 10:17
  I Hate Talking: I guess so.
• 10:18
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 10:19
  I Hate Talking: So why do they think it's speeding up and slowing down then?
• 10:22
  I Hate Talking: Because I think they have calculated, you know, sort of where it should be based on its current trajectory and velocity.
• 10:31
  I Hate Talking: And it sometimes does not end up in the right spot.
• 10:35
  I Hate Talking: But why?
• 10:36
  I Hate Talking: Well, that is the theory of Avi Loeb, that this is some sort of interstellar visitor or alien life, so to speak, that Ouamua was the predecessor of, and this is a follow-up mission.
• 10:54
  I Hate Talking: OK, so his theory is that this planet, or this spaceship or something came a long time ago, and now it's coming back.
• 11:05
  I Hate Talking: Now, this would be an incremental object or vessel.
• 11:09
  I Hate Talking: So it came, now they're coming closer.
• 11:11
  I Hate Talking: Correct.
• 11:12
  I Hate Talking: Now, personally, I do not subscribe to necessarily any alien life.
• 11:18
  I Hate Talking: I think that humanity is unique in its existence, but it does have some very odd things that have been observed, like I've stated.
• 11:29
  I Hate Talking: That it seems like it could be just a very, very unique rock that is passing through our solar system, but it does have some very curious things about it.
• 11:41
  I Hate Talking: Would it be the same rock as they witnessed earlier, you think?
• 11:44
  I Hate Talking: Omama?
• 11:45
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, no.
• 11:46
  I Hate Talking: So you would propose that it's two separate situations, two separate things, but that the scientists are putting them together.
• 11:57
  I Hate Talking: Well, Avi Loeb associates them, and then actually, I believe he wrote a book on Omo Omoa.
• 12:03
  I Hate Talking: We'll have to put the link in the description on that as well because that itself had very many different oddities.
• 12:10
  I Hate Talking: They were not able to observe that one very well because it sort of had already passed by the ideal window when we could have observed it more closely.
• 12:20
  I Hate Talking: It was actually detected after it had already moved past Earth, but there were some indications that it was.
• 12:28
  I Hate Talking: Not a natural shape that it was actually in a disc shape or like a pancake shape or also had some very unique properties about it that again cannot be conclusive because these things are far outside of our range of calculating exact preciseness, but It also showed some unique properties when they were observing it after it had passed.
• 12:54
  I Hate Talking: OK, hmm, they think this has a similar properties, or why do they think it's the same thing?
• 13:00
  I Hate Talking: Well, I don't think anybody has proposed that it's the same thing, just that it's related.
• 13:04
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 13:05
  I Hate Talking: So, I think in Avi Loeb's perspective and the way that even he named it, because I think he was the one that named Omu Aua is that this was a scouting mission, like a reconnaissance intelligence gathering, and this particular 3I atlas is the follow-up mission because I believe I'll have to reference the paper again, but it was either Avi Loeb or some of his peers believe that this.
• 13:34
  I Hate Talking: is a confirmation of the dark forest theory.
• 13:38
  I Hate Talking: OK, are you gonna tell us what the dark forest is?
• 13:41
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I can tell you what the Dark Forest is cause it's not probably something that is in everyday conversation.
• 13:47
  I Hate Talking: I've never had a conversation about it in my life.
• 13:50
  I Hate Talking: So, the dark forest theory is a particular theory that is in response to the Fermi paradox.
• 13:58
  I Hate Talking: So I suppose I might need to explain the Fermi paradox as well.
• 14:01
  I Hate Talking: Sure, we're having a lot of phrases today.
• 14:04
  I Hate Talking: This is great.
• 14:05
  I Hate Talking: I should have my yellow legal pad, writing it down.
• 14:09
  I Hate Talking: So the Fermi paradox is a particular idea that we should see more alien life forms, if alien life forms exist.
• 14:21
  I Hate Talking: So, again, this is predicated based on theories of evolution and ways that life comes about from nothing and so on and so forth that I would not subscribe to, but Those that do take that particular outlook have to come to some sort of logical conclusion that if it happened on Earth, that it would happen elsewhere, and then we would have signs of those things happening or ways that we would be able to detect other life forms and things of that nature.
• 14:50
  I Hate Talking: OK, I'm following you.
• 14:51
  I Hate Talking: What if hypothetically, not trying to throw you off your course here.
• 14:56
  I Hate Talking: But what, and this sounds insane even saying it out loud, but I'm gonna say it.
• 15:02
  I Hate Talking: What if we are the most intelligent form of life force?
• 15:06
  I Hate Talking: We're the most advanced in this group.
• 15:09
  I Hate Talking: Well, that is one of the answers of the Fermi paradox is that life becomes so advanced that it invents a variety of technology and weapons of warfare and nuclear devices and that basically they blow themselves up in an event of self-extinction before they develop ways to transit interstellar space.
• 15:35
  I Hate Talking: So basically, that actually is one of the answers to the Fermi paradox is that we become so technologically advanced, create weapons of mass destruction, and then all kill each other.
• 15:45
  I Hate Talking: OK, but I'm saying even farther than that, what if we have reached that before anyone else has?
• 15:52
  I Hate Talking: I feel like no one ever talks about that.
• 15:54
  I Hate Talking: Is that too haughty?
• 15:56
  I Hate Talking: Maybe we're the first.
• 15:58
  I Hate Talking: That is a particular response as well.
• 16:01
  I Hate Talking: I don't remember if that has a specific name, but That is one of the answers is that Earth is the first and we're not detecting anything else because everybody is behind us, because there would have to be a first in this theoretical situation, but right, because otherwise, why haven't they reached us yet?
• 16:19
  I Hate Talking: Everyone I hear talks about like they should reach us soon, but maybe we're the first and we're gonna reach them on Mars, cause there's stuff on Mars, right?
• 16:30
  I Hate Talking: There's that new life form, possibly they found.
• 16:33
  I Hate Talking: Well, that's if you believe they're on Mars and not just taking photos on the island in the middle of the South Pacific.
• 16:41
  I Hate Talking: I believe them.
• 16:42
  I Hate Talking: Well, they just recently released all the true color photos and it's not even red.
• 16:51
  I Hate Talking: Oh, don't say that.
• 16:53
  I Hate Talking: I don't know about that, but I also like being called the red planet, so.
• 16:57
  I Hate Talking: OK, circling back though, so hypothetically, if we are not the most advanced, I would argue we are the only life form.
• 17:08
  I Hate Talking: But if we are not the most advanced life form, what's next or what's happening?
• 17:15
  I Hate Talking: So there's some other theories out there where there's like federations of other life forms and they only make contact when certain societies have reached a -- certain level of technology -- or intentionally like they're waiting and watching, waiting and watching, so that's another theory.
• 17:33
  I Hate Talking: The one that I think Avi Loeb and I will have to confirm that he actually subscribes to this or if it was just some of his peers, but they subscribe to the dark forest theory, which is basically that there are other advanced alien societies out there, and they basically will strike and eliminate other societies that they detect in an effort of self-preservation before they can be attacked.
• 17:58
  I Hate Talking: So this particular term comes from the fact that space is essentially a dark forest where everyone hides and strikes without warning.
• 18:07
  I Hate Talking: Or they hide cause it's so dark, literally.
• 18:11
  I Hate Talking: I, this sounds like Star Wars, like stories, you know, and I mean, obviously, if you've listened to more than probably 30 minutes of this podcast, you would know where my worldview comes from.
• 18:24
  I Hate Talking: But I don't think there's aliens.
• 18:28
  I Hate Talking: It just sounds silly.
• 18:29
  I Hate Talking: Why would they wait till we reach a certain threshold?
• 18:33
  I Hate Talking: Why don't they strike if they want to rule the universe or the cosmos?
• 18:39
  I Hate Talking: Why wouldn't they strike when we're naive and dumb then?
• 18:42
  I Hate Talking: Well, they might have limitations as well, so they may not have detected us until a few decades ago and have launched their probes and missions, and this is as fast as they could go.
• 18:55
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 18:56
  I Hate Talking: So I did confirm that this was a hypothesis that was proposed by Avi Loeb in a particular blog post in July regarding 3I Atlas that Quote, its silence could confirm this hypothesis where civilizations hide to avoid detection by hostile others.
• 19:14
  I Hate Talking: And then further, this particular article continues that Loeb argued that the object's trajectory and characteristics, though unlikely, were consistent with a disguised probe rather than a natural comet.
• 19:24
  I Hate Talking: So is this gentleman concerned that what they spotted in the sky is aliens that are going to come take us over, not take us over.
• 19:34
  I Hate Talking: Annihilate us And why Fear They would be fearful that they would be discovered and likewise annihilated.
• 19:48
  I Hate Talking: So they're afraid of what they don't know, so they want to get rid of the unknown.
• 19:54
  I Hate Talking: I suppose, I mean, maybe they detected that we have nuclear weapons and that's enough of a threat to them.
• 20:00
  I Hate Talking: How would they detect that so far away?
• 20:04
  I Hate Talking: Well, they would be more advanced because they are traveling in interstellar space than.
• 20:09
  I Hate Talking: What we would be able to.
• 20:11
  I Hate Talking: And what does he propose?
• 20:12
  I Hate Talking: What's the timeline to get here?
• 20:15
  I Hate Talking: If they're watching us and they know we have nuclear weapons, and so they come to us.
• 20:21
  I Hate Talking: To annihilate us before we can annihilate them.
• 20:25
  I Hate Talking: Like this is a game of battleship, but if they're doing that, when are they gonna arrive?
• 20:33
  I Hate Talking: So, one other interesting thing to note that I didn't mention earlier is that the trajectory of Three-Eye Atlas is like within, I believe, either 3% or 0.3% of the planetary orbit.
• 20:50
  I Hate Talking: So, As all the planets for the most part orbit around the sun in the same plane, the 3I Atlas object is traveling nearly along that same plane.
• 21:03
  I Hate Talking: So it's not going through the solar system from top to bottom.
• 21:07
  I Hate Talking: It's actually traveling along the same orbital plane that the planets are on around the sun.
• 21:13
  I Hate Talking: So it's vaguely orbiting like we are.
• 21:16
  I Hate Talking: Not orbiting, traveling along the same plane.
• 21:20
  I Hate Talking: OK, cause I saw something that was talking about like how many days to get to Mercury, Venus, Mars, all that, and some people were pushing back, cause they were like, well, Mars is closer than Mercury, so these people don't know what they're talking about.
• 21:37
  I Hate Talking: The person pushed back on like, well, the orbiting, when you talk about how fast it circles the sun and how many times it rotates, and actually at this time of year, yada yada yada, it's closer, even if it's physically on the books you look at is not closer, because they all are orbiting different speeds.
• 21:58
  I Hate Talking: So is that what you're talking about?
• 22:00
  I Hate Talking: This is orbiting-ish.
• 22:02
  I Hate Talking: Outside of our solar system.
• 22:05
  I Hate Talking: No, I'm talking about 3D space that the sun for purposes of this discussion is in the center of the solar system and the planets all orbit around it in the same plane.
• 22:18
  I Hate Talking: So there's not like a planet that is at 0 degrees and then another planet that's at 90 degrees and then another planet that's at 45 degrees.
• 22:27
  I Hate Talking: They're all relatively close to the same plane in orbit around the sun.
• 22:31
  I Hate Talking: This particular object 3I Atlas is on that same plane.
• 22:35
  I Hate Talking: But it's not closer to Pluto than us, or is it?
• 22:39
  I Hate Talking: So it will pass by a number of the interplanets.
• 22:43
  I Hate Talking: So according to this particular research by NASAscience.gov is that it will have its closest approach to Mars on October 3rd, the closest approach to the sun on October 29th, and then it will actually pass behind the sun.
• 23:04
  I Hate Talking: As it approaches its closest point to Earth, so we actually lose sight of it on the other side of the sun for a time being until it reappears and we will be able to see it on the other side of the sun in early December, followed by its closest approach to Earth on December 19th.
• 23:23
  I Hate Talking: 00, right before Christmas, so the world can get destroyed right before Christmas?
• 23:29
  I Hate Talking: So it's still pretty far away because it is 1.8 AU away from the Earth at its closest.
• 23:38
  I Hate Talking: So my question to you then, as a consumer is if this is happening six days before Christmas, should we celebrate Christmas a week early so we can enjoy our presents or not buy presents at all and use the money now, or is this not gonna affect us at all?
• 23:56
  I Hate Talking: I would say there's a 99.9% that this does not affect us at all, that it is some unknown rock formation that has not been previously observed.
• 24:09
  I Hate Talking: So of course it's something relatively new.
• 24:12
  I Hate Talking: After all, it is only the third of ever interstellar objects observed.
• 24:17
  I Hate Talking: So out of three different things that we have observed, the fact that it's a little bit strange.
• 24:23
  I Hate Talking: Well, there, I'm certain there's been more.
• 24:25
  I Hate Talking: Yes, that's true.
• 24:26
  I Hate Talking: I would say there has been more that there probably have been many more interstellar objects, but now we only have the technology to observe them.
• 24:34
  I Hate Talking: But now that we have the technology to observe them, it is only the 3rd, so probably there's going to be some anomalies when you only compare a population of 3.
• 24:44
  I Hate Talking: OK, so tell me, as you, Adam, how do you feel about this then?
• 24:48
  I Hate Talking: I think it's interesting.
• 24:51
  I Hate Talking: I think it's very curious that we have the technology to observe such things and be able to calculate it, and I do also find it interesting that some of the particular calculations that have been done do not match with observable evidence, so it's an interesting application of the scientific method.
• 25:12
  I Hate Talking: OK, but that doesn't answer my question.
• 25:17
  I Hate Talking: Are you worried that alien life forms are gonna come on Christmas and celebrate Christmas, the baby Jesus with us?
• 25:26
  I Hate Talking: No, not really, because if that is the case, then I will have so little power to do anything that it's probably not even worth worrying about.
• 25:35
  I Hate Talking: And again, I find that chance of that being true infinitesimally small.
• 25:41
  I Hate Talking: Would you befriend aliens?
• 25:43
  I Hate Talking: Well, I guess if they didn't try to blow me up, maybe.
• 25:46
  I Hate Talking: Like if they were like, hey, come to my planet and we're gonna do science on you and learn about your species, would you go?
• 25:54
  I Hate Talking: No.
• 25:55
  I Hate Talking: Why not?
• 25:56
  I Hate Talking: I have other things to do on Earth.
• 25:59
  I Hate Talking: What if they're like.
• 26:01
  I Hate Talking: We're gonna blow up Earth, but we're gonna take a couple of people with us.
• 26:04
  I Hate Talking: Would you go?
• 26:05
  I Hate Talking: Well, I guess if everybody went, like the whole family or something, maybe.
• 26:09
  I Hate Talking: But you wouldn't go if they were like, only took you alone?
• 26:13
  I Hate Talking: No, I don't think so.
• 26:15
  I Hate Talking: Hm.
• 26:15
  I Hate Talking: You'd let them blow us all up.
• 26:18
  I Hate Talking: What if they said, we'll protect your family if you come now?
• 26:21
  I Hate Talking: No, I, I don't think they don't, they don't have any way of proof of trustworthiness at that point in time.
• 26:29
  I Hate Talking: You blow up.
• 26:30
  I Hate Talking: They would need some sort of proof.
• 26:32
  I Hate Talking: Would you tell them about baby Jesus, witness to them?
• 26:36
  I Hate Talking: See, this is also why I don't think alien life exists because -- humanity -- is a bigger theological thing.
• 26:43
  I Hate Talking: That is true.
• 26:43
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I think humanity is the pinnacle of all intelligence because that's how it was created.
• 26:51
  I Hate Talking: Maybe they have an alien bible.
• 26:54
  I Hate Talking: Maybe so.
• 26:55
  I Hate Talking: So that's what's going on that maybe many of our listeners did not know about because you've been watching all the things going on in social media and the jumbotrons and so on and so forth, so.
• 27:06
  I Hate Talking: We'll put the link to the Avila book as well as the link to his particular paper, and you can check out more of those resources if you're so inclined.
• 27:18
  I Hate Talking: -- Are you gonna read it or have you read -- it?
• 27:20
  I Hate Talking: The book I've read, the paper I've skimmed.
• 27:22
  I Hate Talking: Should I read it?
• 27:23
  I Hate Talking: Yes, it's on Audible, so you can listen to it.
• 27:27
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 27:28
  I Hate Talking: You think I'd benefit from reading it?
• 27:31
  I Hate Talking: It's interesting.
• 27:32
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 27:34
  I Hate Talking: I know we haven't even talked about Charlie Kirk, but I guess everybody's talking about Charlie Kirk.
• 27:39
  I Hate Talking: So you can go listen to another podcast if you wanna hear something about Charlie Kirk, because I think we're about out of time.
• 27:45
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, we're out of time, but yep, all of the US as far as I'm aware, is talking about him.
• 27:51
  I Hate Talking: So there's plenty to learn about him or about the whole process.
• 27:57
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 27:58
  I Hate Talking: He was all about discussion.
• 28:01
  I Hate Talking: And talking.
• 28:02
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 28:03
  I Hate Talking: So, from your friends at I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.