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Websites 101 (with Michael Daehn) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have some good news and some bad news for you.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: The bad news is that if you're like many business owners and writers, your website probably needs some attention.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to clearly explain what it is that you do.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: The good news is that it's pretty simple to fix.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: On this episode, we're going to dive into the whole topic of websites and we're going to learn some great tips for fixing this critical area of your business.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hello, my friend.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is Kent Sanders from Inkwell Ghostwriting.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: As always, I really appreciate you joining me today and taking time out to listen to this episode.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thrilled to have my guest, Michael Dane, join me for this conversation.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Michael is an author and digital marketer who builds websites that convert.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Websites are often a point of stress for writers because we often just want to write and not mess with the technical stuff.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: But Michael is here to help us understand some basics of websites, including the different website platforms like Wix, Squarespace and WordPress, understanding the importance of SEO, which is search engine optimization, what kinds of email addresses to use, and the order in which you should be building your digital marketing campaign.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: One more little tidbit.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Michael and I have known each other for quite a long time.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: We went to the same college together back in the mid-90s, and that was St.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Louis Christian College in Florida, Missouri.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the college where I still teach at, actually.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thrilled to reconnect with Michael for this conversation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a really fun conversation where you're also going to learn a lot.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get right to the conversation with my friend Michael Dane.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Michael Michael, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show today.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've been looking forward to this, and I appreciate your coming and sharing your expertise with our listeners.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we are here to talk about websites and several related topics.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is important because it's oftentimes a point of stress for writers.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to speak for every writer out there, of course, but I know in my experience, in a perfect world, I would just be able to write and create stuff and not have to mess with all the websites and all the SEO and all the stuff that goes with it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad that you're here to help us to work through these issues.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start at the beginning.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: What should people use to start a website if they haven't built a website already?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's tons of platforms out there: Wix, Squarespace, WordPress, probably lots of others that I don't even know about.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where do we even start with this process of building a website?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, to go back a second what you what you said at the beginning, uh, I've written uh several books myself, so I I understand.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as far as how I've learned to do websites, it was all trial and error on my own, just kind of messing around with them.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: That started out about 15 years ago.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I but I enjoyed it as it was kind of a hobby for me to figure that stuff out.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously now I do it for a living.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But uh as far as the software, um yeah, uh I forget the percentage, but a large part of the internet is built on WordPress.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's very popular.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's everywhere, and partly because it's free.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: The software is actually free.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you do have to pay for your domain name and hosting, but uh it ends up being pretty low cost to do those things.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when WordPress came out, it was great.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real innovation compared to you know writing code, kind of like in the matrix, you you can see the code coming down.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't I don't do that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I can get in there sometimes if I have to, but uh I try not to.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So having WordPress, we can kind of uh almost have like a word processor type thing to build your web pages um and and templates.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big advance.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but what I use today is called Squarespace.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually certified in WordPress.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know how to use it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I use a uh software called Squarespace, so it's a few dollars more a month, but uh the nice thing about it is everything is in one place.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like WordPress where uh I have to get the software and have to find a company to host it for me and then have to find a domain name.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it you're just putting all these different pieces together.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you say, yeah, I want to put like a little sharing widget on there so people can share to Twitter.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go find they're called plugins on WordPress and download that from the internet and add it to your site.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if that sounds complicated, it's because it is.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a bazillion plugins for everything, it seems like.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and the thing is you don't know where they're coming from.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they can get viruses or need to be updated, and it just takes a lot more maintenance.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, building sites, it's a lot easier to use something like Squarespace, it's all included, the hosting, the software.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can purchase your domain name through them.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to, but you can.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then any kind of plugins or widgets you need are pretty much built into the software.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to go somewhere looking for it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime any of that software needs an update, they're doing it for you behind the scenes.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even know about it.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas anytime I work with someone that has a WordPress site, or the majority of the time, uh, I'll go log into their site for them because I need some help.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I usually get the message, you haven't updated your software in you know five years or whatever it's been, you've missed the last TED updates.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um partly because they don't know any better.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And even if they go into their site, they don't know what that stuff is.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I prefer to use something like Squarespace that uh you don't have to worry about that stuff.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the the designing tools are much easier to drag and drop.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I found building things on WordPress, uh, if you wanted to do something unique or different or even change it, a lot of times you'd have to go get a new template or know how to code, write code.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh with Squarespace, it's much more flexible.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can swap, you know, I want a video here, no, I want pictures, no, I want it to be text, and just change those things in and out.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's way easier for me to build the site for clients.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I have clients who want to update it themselves or just do blog posts, it's it's much easier for them to maintain it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of different options, but but you would recommend Squarespace as a place to start if someone doesn't have a website.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: If yes, if you want, I would say um I was gonna say legitimate, but if you want a more professional looking website and you're gonna pay, if you do it yourself, it's gonna probably cost you$20 to$30 a month.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're gonna have a very nice, efficient, well, well-run website that you're not gonna have a lot of maintenance issues.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it looks nice.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you are just kind of messing around, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying out WordPress or Wix or Weebly, those sites.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've put those up like I did a hockey tournament.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: The site's gonna be up for like two weeks.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna build a full website for that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And those usually have like a free version you can play around with.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I'm not saying not to do that, but if you definitely want to invest in something for your business that you know you want to keep, uh you're gonna be writing blog posts and content and sending customers there, then yeah, I definitely recommend Squarespace.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that Squarespace does not do that WordPress does do?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: That might be a concern for someone who maybe wants to do online courses or they want to sell books or they want to sell products and services, stuff like that?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a possibility.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have not come across that so far though.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um anything that somebody wants to do, I've been able to accomplish that using what's already built into Squarespace.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, if you if you have maybe a third-party tool, like I have um some chiropractors and doctors that use a certain software, but even that I'm able to take code from that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's called mind body.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm able to take the code from that and actually put it into uh the Squarespace site.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they work together well.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't come across anything yet, but I won't say it's impossible that somebody would want something that didn't work on the site.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if then if Squarespace is so much simpler, why is it that so many people still are using WordPress?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it I use WordPress personally.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've looked at Squarespace very seriously and I'm still thinking about switching to something else just because of all the reasons that you mentioned with WordPress.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why do so many people still use WordPress?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just one of those things where because a lot of people use it, a lot of people continue to use it despite the benefits of perhaps switching to something like Squarespace?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's just market saturation.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's people have heard the name, or people are gonna recommend it, or they're gonna say, oh, my site's on WordPress.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of most people haven't like looked into what's out there and evaluate all the platforms and use other platforms like I have.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, but yeah, I think it's just it's really they've done a good job.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've I've presented at WordCamp.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: They do a really good job of uh promoting that software and building a community, and it's been around for a long time.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what about Wix?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I know it less even less about Wix than I do about Squarespace.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is it similar to Squarespace or are they are they different in some fundamental ways?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've messed around with it because I kind of like to try everything.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I will say it's been at least you know a year or two since I've looked at it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: But every time I've gone into it, it it had a lot of limitations for what I wanted to do.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it it didn't seem very intuitive to use.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but again, you know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, um, but from what I've seen, my preference is to use Squarespace.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: That totally makes sense.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Makes a lot of sense.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's say there's somebody listening who shudders and runs and hides under the bed at the thought of building their own website, even if it's on something like Squarespace.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: They want to have nothing to do with websites, the whole thing just scares them to death.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: What then would you recommend in terms of if they're looking for someone to build a website for them?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, this is what you do.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: How much would something like that cost?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they want a WordPress site built versus a Squarespace site, um, what what's a general price range for someone who has kind of a small business or they're like a solopreneur or an author, something like that?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's a general range of costs and what would that involve?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'd say if you if again, if you want a legitimate site that you're really gonna invest in and uh be proud of and want people to go visit your site because you know it's actually gonna help you and promote your business.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um it depend I charge by how many pages I build.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I have like a set fee essentially to set up the site, and then I charge a certain amount per page.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the sites I build are usually one to two thousand dollars.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm building pretty simple sites, um, usually three to five pages for most people.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I work with a lot of small business owners now, so maybe a realtor or lawyers, chiropractors.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they need a few pages on there, but they don't need a full-blown website like the kind of things I used to manage when I worked uh in the corporate environment.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone wanted a site that included a blog, that would actually actually be, I mean, that would obviously be more because there would be a lot more moving parts to it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: They would be updating it regularly, that kind of thing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the way I do it, I consider the blog uh just another page.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I charge for it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um now if they want me to do other blog posts for them, then that's a different story.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll build a blog and show them how to use it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, from there, the way I work with my clients, I want them to uh hire me or or you know pay me a maintenance fee because they want to, not because they have to, or they feel trapped, or they don't know how to use their software.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to set it up so you know I I give them ownership of the site and show them how to use it, and then you know, I have some some uh clients that that they're great with that and they they move on and they update their site, and other clients are just like, yeah, I don't want to deal with this.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they just pay me like the monthly fee to update their site for them.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and because it it is it is something that requires maintenance, you can't just set it up and and let it go forever.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like a baby.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: You it's gotta be cared for and nurtured and updated and fed and all that stuff.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I try to make them as low maintenance as possible.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you're doing you know, updating with blog posts and things, it also makes the site more dynamic.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: It makes uh Google like your site more.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the SEO search engine optimization.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: When Google sees that you're updating it and adding you know these great articles and podcasts, they're gonna they're gonna like your site better.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And let's dive into that a little bit.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you mentioned SEO because that's something that I want to throw into this conversation.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people hear SEO and they just go, okay, I don't even know what that is, but I hear the term bandied about you know in technical blogging type conversations.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is SEO and why is it something we should be thinking about as writers and business leaders?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So SEO stands for search engine optimization.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what that means is we'll just talk about Google because that's the most common.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um when someone goes and types, we'll just say widgets into Google, they're looking for widgets.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Google actually goes and looks at every website out there.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually make a copy of it, keep it on their own servers.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know they.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they do.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that they can do it faster.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when you go in and type in widgets, it's gonna look at all these, all the websites that are out there.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's called indexing because it keeps track of everything that's out there.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna look for sites that talk about widgets because that's what you typed in.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you get your website to show up in the search results for widgets?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's by building a website that you talk about widgets a lot.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are some people call those keywords.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's essentially what your site is about.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a hundred articles about widgets, um you're more likely to show up uh higher in the search engine results with Google.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's uh so a good way to do that is with your blog.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you write a hundred articles about widgets.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this can be a little overwhelming, and then people are like, well, I gotta write 100 blog posts about widgets.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what I tell people the secret to good SEO is make your site something that's valuable to your customers or potential customers.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So actually writing good articles.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So like when I look at your website, you have good articles, good, you have podcasts and you have blog posts, and the content there is around uh business writing, and so you have a lot of information and keywords around those topics, not because you're necessarily trying to trick Google or get it on Google, but because you genuinely are providing good information for your customers and potential customers.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I recently read that Google is now searching podcast audio, which is really cool because you know a podcast is going to add an extra layer of SEO into that mix so that now it's not just the print things on my site that they are associating, where they're associating me with business writing or the term smart business writing.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also the podcast content.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So there's I guess there's lots of different layers that you can add into this mix.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't realize that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty that's pretty cool too.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is pretty cool.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all the audio content that's out there just over the last 10 or 15 years through podcasts.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just an immense amount of material.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty cool.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and so what I recommend like if you can, I put a transcript on there.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you also have it as text with those keywords.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's what I recommend that people are doing video as well.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do a transcript, put the video in as a blog post, but then also do a transcript because you have all these great keywords and information in the copy that you're adding to your site.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this gets really complicated.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the the secret to good SEO is to make your site something valuable to your visitors because that's what Google is trying to do.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Google essentially is their job is to say, hey, if someone's looking for widgets, I want to send them to a site that is providing good information about widgets.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all these kind of tricks and techniques for good SEO, but if you are trying to put people first, Google's gonna like your site as well.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's great advice.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that should be refreshing to all of us because I mean that's what we should be doing anyway in our business is putting people first and trying to add value to people and to do something that people need and want.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So So I guess what you're saying is just put people first, write good content, provide great value to people.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's the most important thing we can do for SEO.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's always it's always been that way.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: But Google's gotten better and better because people will do you know kind of tricky things to try to um get Google to index your site um by that's called keyword stuffing, or they'd even put a bunch of words on their site that were in clear text so you couldn't even read them.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: They were just there for the computers.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: But Google is can see that kind of stuff now.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if they do see things like that, they actually will ding you for it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: They'll they'll delist you or move you down the rankings, and it gets smarter and smarter.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, don't don't buy any of any of that stuff.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you just have your visitors in mind, um, that's what Google's trying to do anyway, it's good to provide a good experience.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting that Google has clamped down that because Apple has done the same thing as well with podcasting.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: For a while, it was considered kind of a standard practice with a lot of podcasters to stuff their podcast title or stuff the description with all these other like um names of other famous people in their niche.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it was a business podcast, they would say, you know, hey, if you like Gary Vaynerchuk or um or Steve Jobs or you know, whoever the business people are that their audience would would be listening to and were influencers, then you would stuff all that stuff in your description and you're you're kind of trying to fool Apple, but they don't they're not fooled anymore.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is about just adding value first, which is absolutely which is again very refreshing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the stuff works short term, but long term.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you're putting your customers first, you you're not doing stuff like that anyway.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk about email for a second.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: The good old email, which has been around for about 100 years, it seems maybe not quite.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But something something that I still see a lot is in fact, I'm right now I'm bringing up my um email app on my Mac and I'm looking at uh in fact two emails from people with Yahoo addresses.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I still have a couple people on my email list that have an AOL address, which just blows my mind.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that was still a thing anymore.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it is.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Should we have uh an email address associated with our domain name?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like mine is KentSanders.net.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have an email address associated with that.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is that important these days in the in the world of business and with websites and stuff to have that?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it okay just to use Gmail or Yahoo for stuff?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on what we should be using for our email address?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so email is part of your branding.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are a professional person and and so we're talking about this in the context of business for your business, like any if it's personal email, yeah, whatever.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Gmail is great.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if this is for your business, it does not look professional to be at a Gmail address or Yahoo address or AL, any of those.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't look as professional and it doesn't reinforce your branding.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having your domain name, which is the the website address where your site is built, um, is is more professional.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a clue to uh people finding you because sometimes I find people, I find their website from their email address because for one reason or another I don't have I didn't see their website or they didn't include it with information they sent me.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's part of their email address, they go, oh, okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like mine's Michael at michaeldain.com.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So someone could definitely find my website even if I didn't give it give it to them specifically.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also it's if you know what you're doing, it's not really that difficult to set up, and it's not very expensive either.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's again, you're talking a few dollars a month to have a professional uh email address.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have my website hosted through Bluehost, and it automatically just comes with your hosting with them.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how it works with Squarespace or others, but it typically does.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um Squarespace partners with uh G Suite.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's essentially it looks like Gmail, but it uses your domain name instead of the Gmail address.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But again, if you even if you don't want to set it up that way, um you can set it up so that you have that professional email address, but it can still go whatever inbox you want.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: It could be Yahoo or Gmail if that's what you prefer to use as your your inbox client, because that's what you're used to.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can just forward that professional name to those inboxes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's definitely part of your.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Branding and uh it's one of the first things I recommend.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mostly work with small business owners now, so it's one of the first kind of low-hanging fruit things that I try to tackle with them.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's such a simple thing to do, but uh I see so many people not doing that.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a it's such an easy way to establish yourself as a professional person, just by having your own an email address that is associated with your own domain.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah, for sure.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: One of the most helpful things that I have seen of yours, and I know this is this is one of your primary pieces of content on your side, is you talk about a digital marketing hierarchy, which is so fascinating.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And as I've come to understand a bit about this, as we talked two, three months ago um about this, these concepts, uh it's such a key fundamental thing, but I had never heard anybody put it in such a succinct way that just made sense.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, can you talk about these four pieces of the digital marketing hierarchy and how we should think about these as writers and authors and business owners?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I've been doing this stuff for a long time, over over 20 years in digital.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, there's just so much stuff flying around out there, and uh most people say, Oh, you got a Facebook page, or it's like it's easy to get overwhelmed.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was trying to think, and I'm I have a teaching background, so I try to say, well, how can I just simplify this and try to get the message across?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I put these four pieces in order.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the foundation of your digital marketing, the most important thing is your website, your personal website, because that's where you're gonna convert people, convert them to a cause or to buy a product or to set an appointment.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: But typically that's gonna happen on your website.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know social media is has morphed a little bit where some of that stuff can take place there, but um there's some dangers, and you don't, those aren't your websites.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if Zuckerberg changes the rules, decides, hey, uh we used to have Facebook pages and people could see your content, now you got to buy an ad.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that happened a couple years ago.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um the same thing's gonna happen on Instagram.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you definitely want to have something that you own as the key place where people can find you online and that you are actually converting people.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So people are visiting your site, you're getting them to take some kind of action.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's your website.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the foundational piece there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um then really hand in hand with that is email marketing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, wow, it's really old-fashioned.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I I agree with you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went to an email marketing conference.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, this was like 2008.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I and I went in and the guest said, Well, who thinks email's dead?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Raise your hand.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I raised my hand like a fool.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't thinking I'm at an email marketing conference.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was the only one that raised my hand.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then he went on to say how important email still was.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I've really come around.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we we still live in our inboxes.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um we do, we do.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's old-fashioned, but nothing has really replaced email.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even these other tools I see people bringing out, they always ask for your email address.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're always your account and everything's always connected to your email address.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Communications are always attached and come to your email inbox.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's still very important.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I focus on today is building websites and then having that email component on the site.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that has to do with conversion as well, because yeah, you might want somebody to book an appointment or to buy a product, but they don't they're not always ready to do that.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: But they're on your website and they're interested in what you're doing and your content.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can at least get their email address, you can continue the conversation, you can follow up with them, and you can nurture that lead.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't at least get their email address and they leave your site, you can have a million people come to your site a day, but you don't know who they are, and you're not gonna be able to talk to them.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So having you know, like a newsletter sign-up, or you know, can't you do a really good job of giving away a guide?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, thank you.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's key.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell people like you need to have that some kind of content offer, but it needs to be good, it needs to be worth an email address, it's value for value.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your email address is worth something, so whatever you're giving away should be worth something.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the first two pieces.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: The website is the number one, and then the email marketing.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then so then I put social media is important.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't focus on that area as much as I used to because it's becoming more and more complicated, and I'm one person and I can't do everything.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually outsource that piece now.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um if you're building a website and you're and you're doing blog posts and things like that, um, yeah, absolutely.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Share that on Twitter, Facebook.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good way to get your content out there for free.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's syndicating your content out onto the internet and and you're able to try to get leads that way.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you always want to use that social media to send people back to your website um for that conversion.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the social media is becoming less and less effective unless you're actually buying ads.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is really discouraging because for a long time it was seen as kind of this magic wand of of business.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's all it's free marketing, it's all this amazing stuff can happen from it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, I I think I think we're sensing a theme here that you know Google has caught on to people trying to game the system, Apple has done it, and now social media has been doing that for a long time.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't really game the system anymore unless you're willing to pay to an extent.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And also understanding your audience, because uh I have political candidates, and social media is huge.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean that the way they can target ads, uh, the interaction they get on their pages is incredible, but I don't see that with any of my other clients.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I see them posting things that just sit there.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because unless they buy an ad, most people aren't gonna see it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I know people are under pressure to be on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um you really need to know your audience and where they're at and if that's an effective medium to reach your particular audience.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would just say don't don't feel the pressure that that you need to be there.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of times too, um, like I said, these political candidates, but they also spend a ton of money on advertising on social media.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's effective for them.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the last piece.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So websites is foundation, email is second, social media is third, um, and the website is first because these other things should be pointing people back to your website.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Social media is third, and then if you still have um you still need an odd more people, more leads, and you still have money left, and all these other pieces are working well, then I say paid ads, which that includes social media advertising and Google ads and other things like that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we're talking about just the digital, the digital sphere.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's obviously other marketing pieces and other things you can do offline, but just for digital, your website, then email, and then social media, and then paid ads if you saw money left.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of things to think about for sure.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lots and lots of layers to this, potentially.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone does not have a website, they should probably not be thinking too much about social media and email marketing, correct?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like the website is the very first thing that they should be thinking about.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not saying you can't get leads in those other ways, but it's not gonna be as effective.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know people and I've worked with people that have spent though they're spending you know even hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on Google ads, but they're sending them to a web, those ads are sending people to a website that's not built for conversion just because that wasn't really thought of.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's just like a forum, but it's not really well laid out, which is what I do.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I don't make the prettiest sites, like I'll work with the you know designers to get graphics, but I know how to build sites to actually convert people to get them to take an action, to sign up or to make a purchase.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're buying ads to go to an a site that doesn't convert well, you're wasting money.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in many ways, this goes back to really the whole theme of what this whole podcast is about, and not just this episode, but the whole show, smart business writing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's doing this with intention and doing it in a streamlined way that actually gets to you the results that you want.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: But uh a lot of people don't know what results that they want to begin with.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, writing is not just about the writing, it's about what does the writing cause?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: What is the impact or the effect that your writing should have on people?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I guess for everybody listening, it it's worth it to think about what you want the end result of what you're doing to be, whether that's working with clients, you're selling a product, you're selling courses or a service or whatever that is.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes it's hard to figure all those pieces out when you don't know what you want that end result to be.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing I ask when I do a website or if I'm reviewing someone's website.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I say, what do you want people to do?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I get various answers.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I oh, it'd be cool if they watch this video.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to watch a video.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to book an appointment or buy something.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now the video might help get them there, but the purpose of your site is not for people to watch videos or even to read blog posts or whatever.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's content that helps them get to you know what I call the primary call to action.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Primary call to action.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want people to do?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I say ideally, like if everybody came to your website and they did this one thing, what would it be?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, you know, buy a car from me.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Then that's what we need to center the site around.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like writing a paper or a book.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have a thesis.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that primary call to action is your thesis, and then everything else is serving that and trying to get people to that place.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for those who are listening who don't know what that thing is, I would I would challenge them to spend some time thinking about that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's taken me a number of years doing this blogging and podcasting stuff to really get clear on okay, what exactly is my business?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: What am I doing?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want people to pay me for?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then to to try and line up everything that I'm doing with that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still not done with that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still very much uh molding all that.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, my business is ghostwriting and and helping and it's really two things ghostwriting, so doing uh a service for clients, but then also the podcast and my blog and the books that I write are about teaching people.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And those will are be tied into courses and other things later on, but uh it's taken me a long time to get clear on that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So so as you work with clients, Michael, how do you how do you help people get clear on what their business actually is?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean I know I know that's not the main thing that you do, but I know that that as you work with people you probably have a lot of those conversations.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that actually used to be my focus.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I've I've adapted and I've actually changed the way I talk about what I do and what I present to people.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I used to be more about I'm the marketing guy, let me help you be strategic with your marketing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I still do all those things, but when I use that kind of language, I mean people don't know what I'm talking about.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's it doesn't, it's not as accessible.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if I say, hey, I can help you get customers from your website, that they know what I'm talking about.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to, well, he's saying strategic marketing, and I uh probably need that, but I don't know what he's talking about.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: But if I say, you want to get more customers from your website, uh yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So and I that's kind of the the it's a tactic.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's something that they're doing in marketing, but it's kind of a backdoor end for me.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: So then as I go over through people's sites with them, when I'm asking, well, well, what do you want people to do?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to develop that primary call to action, all those other things come out.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're kind of we're kind of doing it backwards.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're kind of saying, well, here's your website, and then we kind of back in to the strategy.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: When I start to try to talk about strategy first, uh, I think it's not as accessible to most people.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it makes total sense.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So in a sense, you're you're almost reverse engineering the whole process because you're starting with the main thing, which is what do you ultimately want people to do?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want people to pay you for?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really is I guess when you get right down to it, that's kind of the main question.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it makes sense to people.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it too.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a small business owner, I'm a one one-man show.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I like to read books and stuff, but I I can't I can't do all that stuff.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I also can't invest in things I'm not gonna see a return on financially.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something too.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I we're kind of saying, like, look, we're gonna answer these questions, but it's for a purpose.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's for you to have more customers, you're gonna for you to have more sales.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I work with nonprofits too, it's for you to have more donors and more supporters.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which some of that could be kind of tricky too, um, when you're working with nonprofits because they don't want to come across as uh like they're trying to sell you something.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But they are selling something.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it may not be a product or service necessarily, but they're selling something.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're giving people something in exchange for their donations, whether it's uh a good feeling because they're donating or they're helping some sort of cause, social cause or uh religious or faith-based cause or political cause, whatever that is, education.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's always some sort of exchange of value happening, whether it's for profit or nonprofit.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really difficult thing, I think, for many writers to get their heads around.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: At least it it has been a really difficult thing for me over the last number of years.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say it's only in the last couple of years that I have really started to understand this concept of uh how writing ties into your overall business.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh one one theme that seems to be very common as I talk to writers and trying to help them with these with these things is that the book is not necessarily the end goal.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: The the book uh ideally should be leading to something else if you want to have a a book tie into to your business.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because that there are a lot of people who make a lot of money selling books, but it's kind of rare.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for most people who write books.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't make any money on my books, that's for sure.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean the book if if a book is part of your business, the book should be leading to something else, ideally, whether that's uh consulting deals or speaking, or you're selling courses, or you're running uh a mastermind program, or you're selling a product or service or something else.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's difficult because so many of us grew up with this idea that okay, we write because we want to make a book.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the book is the main thing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: But but in reality, the book is not the main thing.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: The book should be leading to something else.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we can construct that book in such a way as to then lead that reader to something else, whether it's an email list or we're nurt where we're nurturing them or something else.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that for me was hard to get my head around.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it definitely establishes your credibility.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've I've written six books, I've probably sold three or four hundred dollars worth of books, but I've gotten jobs from it, I've given them away.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it you don't want to give them to everybody, it but it become an expensive business card.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I've never had anybody who wasn't impressed by it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that most of the people I've given books to, even if it got me a job or whatever, probably never read it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've only had a handful of people read it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but can we talk about how this content like fits into your website a little bit too?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, of course.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've done it both ways where I've written a book and then kind of taken pieces of that book and made blog posts and articles out of it on my website.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've also done it the other way, and I think this can help people who are kind of new to it or haven't written yet.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: A blog is an awesome way to just get those those thoughts out.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I started doing, I said I'm gonna do one blog post a day on a business tip.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I got to I did 188 that year, but wasn't 365.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's still a lot though.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, you know, I had some times I missed in there, but yeah, I still had a lot.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I said, hey, why don't I take all these posts and put them into a book?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is exactly what I did.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's actually one of my more popular books.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think because I put a picture of an orange on the front, but that's that's marking.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody likes oranges.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it was it wasn't a chore to write, because it was this, hey, let me try to check in once a day, spend a few minutes on this, and and just come up with something I've learned in business along the way that I want to share with people.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And but yeah, after a year, I I've pretty much written a book doing that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think the the next book I write, I want to do it in that way, but I'll probably have you know more chapters, not just kind of loose ideas, but like an outline, but then try to post those pieces.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a good way to get it out there.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can also get feedback and comments on it as you go.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the side, all that content on your website, we're talking about SEO earlier.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you write that, your website grows.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you do a blog post, that acts that adds one page to your website.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the more pages you have on your website, the more Google's gonna like it.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: The more information and resources are gonna be there for your visitors.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great way to grow that content.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And Google also loves unique content.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: So stuff that you're writing yourself doesn't exist anywhere else.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: It can only be found on your website.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: So actually writing that original content is as far as being found and being found by search engines, one of the best things you can do.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also understanding, like I was saying, repurposing that content.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things I tell clients that we're going through this and like, you know, let's try to add that kind of can you write one blog post a week?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, yeah, they they usually don't.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if if you can write one blog post a week, guess what?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the month, we've got a newsletter with four posts.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll add like an offer at the end of that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got 80% content, 20% promotion, and you've got a great newsletter.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're that you're staying in touch with people once a month.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then also every time you write a blog post, share that on Facebook, share that on Twitter, share it, you know, wherever you can, because it's that's free promotion.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And even if people aren't necessarily finding it, or not as many as you want, all those links from those social sites coming back to your website, that's another signal to Google that your website's important.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I share stuff on LinkedIn like podcast episodes and other stuff.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even I mean, I want people to listen to those things, but it's not even so much about them clicking the link and listening to an episode and all that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's also just about being there.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: So LinkedIn knows that I'm there.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also that people who are in my who I'm connected with on LinkedIn will see that in their feed, and it it is that it's at least an awareness.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a top of mind thing where they know, oh, Cant Sanders just put out a new podcast episode on whatever topic it is that's related to his main thing of business writing.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's something to be said for just being present there, even if people don't necessarily listen to or read everything that you do.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, content's key on the internet.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Content is keen.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, let me let me shoot one final question here at you.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of a case study for a very specialized thing because I'm actually considering doing this.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: So my URL is my website is KentSanders.net.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've always regretted the.net thing, but some guy out there bought the dot com years ago, and I've he won't even he like has a Gmail address that's like KentSanders at gmail.com and that guy won't respond to me or whatever.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're listening to this and we share the name, please get in touch.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't price gouge me on the website.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I'm really considering switching to uh uh instead of Kent Sanders.net, really going full in full in on this branding at smartbusinesswriting.com, which I do own that domain, although I haven't done anything with it.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm if I make a switch like that, and so this is a question for everybody who's thinking about switching to a different website.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they bought a domain name they don't really like and they're wanting to focus in on their branding and whatnot.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: If I do that, what kinds of things should I be aware of or pay attention to if I make smartbusinesswriting.com my main website as opposed to Kintonsanders.net?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I assume I'm gonna lose some Google juice and SEO juice and probably will lose some rankings or something, but I don't know what.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little concerned about that, so I don't know.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, if you just start with the whole new website with the new domain, you're really starting from scratch.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's ways to uh connect that domain, um, but even at that, you're gonna you're gonna it's gonna have an effect on you whenever you change that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, long term you should probably go with you know what's best for your business.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like some of these aren't like yes and no questions.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Even should I use my name or should I use uh like my personal name or should I use like a company name?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's always a huge question that people have.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it I would say it depends.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, even even myself, I go back and forth because there's advantages to both and there's disadvantages to both.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you use your name, the good thing is you're always gonna be you.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you're gonna maintain that value.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um particularly like for me, most of my most of my background has been working for big companies and other people.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have my own company name, but I still had written all these books and was writing blog posts.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I know no matter what company I go to, I still have the Michael Dane website.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I still have the brand of me.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then that can be confusing.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, what do you do?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: What do you focus on?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I say, Well, I'm the marketing guy, or whatever.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's a pros and cons of that.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having that brand is yeah, it's great.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can build it more specifically because it's harder to brand a name as to what you do.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, smart business writing is yeah, that's great.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's great for search engines.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's looking for, they type smart business writing into Google and Ken Sanders come up, comes up, they might be like, well, I don't know who that is.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: If it says smart businesswriting.com comes up, they're like, that is definitely relevant to what I'm looking for.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there's pros and cons of both.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I actually had two websites for a while.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I had my rent my CMO, rent my chief marketing officer, and Michael Dane.com.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I finally just shut down the other one.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say I don't recommend having more than one site whenever you can.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will I won't say never, but uh I'll have that too with clients.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: They'll have three or four different websites.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, it you're it's more expensive just to have those plus maintaining updating content on all those different sites, branding issues, like if someone meets you and then you go, well, I got this business card and I got this website, and uh yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever you decide to do, whether it's a business name or your personal name, uh commit to it and stick with it.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like even what you're saying, like if I change my if I change my website address now, you're gonna lose a lot of stuff that you've built up.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I'm concerned about.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So like right now, because I'm looking at your website right now, it says Ken Sanders, unlock your creative genius.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, yeah, I need to change even change that branding because that that's with my old focus on creativity.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to do that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk more about this anyway.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's lots of things that uh that I need to change my site for sure.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I I could see you incorporating the smart business writing.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see the logo you have on your blog post, smart business writing with Ken Sanders.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Which was very intentional, by the way.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was yeah, that was um actually a friend of mine suggested that when I was naming the podcast, that he kept saying, You need to include your name in the title.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, that's stupid.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's really vain.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna do that, that's dorky.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the more that I thought about it, I thought, you know, he's actually right.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of podcasts that do that, so I thought, well, what the heck?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, may as well, it's just extra branding juice.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and that's part of marketing.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are they're embarrassed of that, they don't want their name to be out there.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if you understand, you know, we're talking about being human, people connect with other people more than they do generic brand names or companies.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're always gonna, they always want some kind of personification.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Even, you know, I called Facebook Zuckerberg earlier, you know, because they because we want that human connection, and even if you think about big companies, we tend to tie them into who the CO is because as humans we want to connect with that other human person.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So don't be embarrassed.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I guess at the end of the day, is there something to be said for it doesn't really matter what your URL is as long as you have it there and you're putting your stuff there and you're sticking with it?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because once people know what it is, then they just know what it is.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, but I will say some are better than others.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Some starting places for URLs.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I have some people that are have things that are misspelled.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's bad.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're just or they spell them differently, which uh yeah, you're just kind of starting off on the wrong foot when you when you s if you especially if you're just starting off that way.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Totally makes sense, yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a lot of things here to think about, and I hope that people who are listening aren't are not uh on the floor crying at this point.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they are.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because if someone is just starting from scratch, um this this stuff can be kind of overwhelming, but you just gotta take that first step and just do it and dive in and know that you're gonna make mistakes, but just press on and keep going, you know.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know how to fix anything in my house.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can build you a website, but I don't like our even our screen.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like my wife told me it's easy to fix.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have no clue how to fix our screen door.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I went and bought the little magnet thing, you know, that she isn't isn't happy with, but it's been there for three years.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know how to fix anything.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this stuff, I mean, we're going through it and I've given you a lot of tips.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's something you're interested in, I say, yeah, go for it.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: But otherwise, like, I mean, I know I do it, but even just find somebody else or find if you don't have the budget, find somebody just starting off.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't, if it gives you anxiety, just pay somebody that knows what they're doing.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and for businesses today, I mean, digital is so important.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: You think it's important now, it's gonna get more and more important.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Think of right now, we can't even leave our house.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's all I mean, people are communicating through through Zoom or podcasts or your website.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna become more and more important.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just part of the way you're gonna need to do business.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: I get most of my clients from networking.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you go networking, you get someone your card, they go look at your website.
• 50:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's statistically proven.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you want them to, it doesn't have to be a big website either, but just you know, who you are, what you can do, maybe some testimonials, just establish some credibility for yourself.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just gonna be more and more important as we move on.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Michael, this has been enormously helpful.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned a lot, and I know that our listeners have as well.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: How can people get in touch with you if they want to explore more about your books, your blog posts, your content, and your services?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: So everything is on my website.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's Michael Dane.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's Dane like a great Dane, but spelled like a German.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's D-A-E-H N.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's Michael Dane.com.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and everything's there.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I give my books away for free.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of free articles.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if you do want to connect with me on LinkedIn or whatever, it's everything is there.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Ken.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Michael.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Here are my three biggest takeaways.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, pay attention to SEO, which of course stands for search engine optimization.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Michael talked about the importance of keywords on your website.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever Google indexes your site, it associates those keywords with you.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the secret to good SEO is to make your site valuable to your current and potential customers.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the focus here is on serving your readers, clients, and customers well.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: And SEO will help Google to help you.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: So don't think of SEO as this as just this pain in the neck thing that you had to mess with.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Think of it as you're giving Google the tools to be able to send more people your way.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: So SDO really does help you in the long run.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, your email address is part of your branding.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really critical to have an email address that matches your domain.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: For example, my URL is KentSanders.net and my email address is Kent at KentSanders.net.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I would encourage you for business purposes to stay away from things like AOL, Yahoo, and Hotmail email addresses.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are fine for personal use.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're totally fine if you're just emailing friends and buddies and things like that.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have an email for your business purposes, I wouldn't really encourage you to not use any of those and to use either Gmail or something that is that is part of your domain, like your name at your namedomain.com or whatever it is.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I would recommend running your domain-based email through Gmail if you still want to use Gmail features.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, email addresses and that whole thing, that's a whole other topic of conversation.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the main point I'm trying to make here is to really stay away from things like Yahoo, AOL, and Hotmail for your business email.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, get clear on what you do.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is the hard part for many people, especially writers.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly do you do that serves people?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And how is it that you want to make money?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: There are lots of different ways to make money, but you need to pick something and you need to decide.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is the main thing you're doing as a writer?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm gonna be honest with you, this was a huge challenge for me for a long time.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know what I was doing.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um my wife would probably tell you that.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really had no clue what I was doing for a long time.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And some days I still feel like that.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all feel like that with the rate of change in society these days.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: But for a long time I couldn't pick what I really wanted to offer as a service or a product.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm focusing on ghostwriting.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very clear on what I'm doing, and I'm clear on how all the parts of my business funnel into that.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Ghostwriting is my main thing.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: And this podcast is designed to help me build relationships, to connect with prospective clients, and establish my authority in the realm of business writing.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: And because I'm mostly ghostwriting business books, this podcast directly filters into that whole topic and that whole realm.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that being said, though, my website doesn't really match that emphasis right now.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm based on, in fact, based on this uh conversation with Michael, I've really become convinced I gotta take some time and really uh spruce up my website and have a really much more clear emphasis on my website for what it is that I do.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I would encourage you to really think about what it is that you do and making sure that everything that you're doing filters through to that thing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you do?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you help people?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Make that clear in your branding and on your website.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and by the way, this isn't something that we just set once and then forget about it for 10 years.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that we're always going to be having to revisit on a regular basis just because of the rate of change and technology and the way people engage with us is changing all the time.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just something that we have to get comfortable with and realize that change happens in culture and we just need to keep up with it.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: As Stephen Covey said, begin with the end in mind.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a quote from the seven habits of highly effective people.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: He said, begin with the end in mind.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: So take whatever your main thing is that you make money with and reverse engineer that and make sure that your social media, podcast, and website all filter people through that funnel.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, let me give you, I'm gonna cheat.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give you a number four tick away.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Normally I just do three, but sometimes it gets to so good that I've I've got to do a couple more.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Takeaway number four here is I just want to revisit very quickly the digital marketing hierarchy that Michael shared with us.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, this is the order that you should use to build your digital marketing campaigns.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Number one is your website, number two is email marketing, number three is social media, and number four is paid ads.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the order in which you should be focusing on things.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really helpful to know because it's easy to get sidetracked by doing things that are not effective.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friends, that's all I've got for this episode.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this was a very content-rich episode, but man, it was so, so good.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this is going to help an awful lot of people.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give a massive thank you to my amazing guest, Michael Dane.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure to check out his website, michaeldain.com.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's Michael, and his last name is spelled D-A-E-H-N.com.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can also get a free website consultation from Michael by clicking the red button on his site.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I encourage you to take advantage of that.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: He did an audit of my website and it was super helpful.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks so much for listening to this episode as always.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Also remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll see you in the next episode.