Latest / The UNWavering Podcast / Rooted in the Word, Engaged in the World | Dr. Doug Huffman – Dean, School of Theology & Ministry, Special Advisor to the President

Transcript

Rooted in the Word, Engaged in the World | Dr. Doug Huffman – Dean, School of Theology & Ministry, Special Advisor to the President · The UNWavering Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm convinced that God's word really is applicable to the everyday questions of our world.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like that's a big part of my mission as the dean of the School of Theology is to call these two halves of the coins to be aware of one another and to work together in helping students to recognize the applicability of God's word to the everyday lives that we uh live here.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Join as we highlight the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, this is Monty.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_04: And Cassie, and today on the Unwavering Podcast, we're talking to Dr.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: Doug Huffman, who is the Dean of the School of Theology and Ministry and Special Advisor to the President.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna ask him a little bit more about his return story to Northwestern and also hear about his vision for the School of Theology.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: It should be a great conversation.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of the Unwavering Podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Today we get to have Dr.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Doug Huffman in the studio.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Doug, it is so great to have you in here today.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought your first semester back at Northwestern was kind of like, you know, just kind of get your feet wet, get warmed up a little.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, have you been busy or something?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been very busy, busier than I thought I would be, actually.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So a big steep learning curve to come back to Northwestern.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've been telling people this is my fourth first year at Northwestern.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I would know things better than I do.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's like technology has changed.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's just that's a month in itself.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just reading email has been a new experience for me here.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're really happy to have you here and really looking forward to this conversation that we get to have together today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but before we we dive in and even get to hear more about your return to Northwestern story, um Cassie and I are dying to know.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: How does the chosen end?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm on the edge of my seat.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is available uh in written form.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can uh tune into your New Testament to see how the story ends.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's the first time hearing that.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know there was a book for you.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's fun.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I know that uh many people know you from your time working with the chosen, and you know, we we might have to have you in here just for another episode to talk about the chosen.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: That would be that'd be great.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's been so great having you back here at Northwestern.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know Cassie and I appreciate just having you on campus.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're one of the people around campus that will just stop in our office randomly just to connect and say hi.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big part of who you are.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you're nearing the first, the end of your first semester.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what has it meant to be back at Northwestern?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it it's a little surreal for me and my wife Deb.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we met here as students in my first life at Northwestern, and uh it's a little bizarre to be walking around after having been gone for almost 15 years, and it feels a little surreal and dreamy, like it's all familiar, it's all a little bit strange to be here.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've been telling people it's familiarly strange and strangely familiar.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, okay.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: A little deja vu.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: I get that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Does it feel a little less dreamy when you feel like on a day like today when we're recording that it's 30 degrees and not 75 and sunny?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, for me, I was thinking about it as I was walking outside this morning, uh, very crisp and cool, uh snow on the dusting of snow on the ground, which is not normal for the last 15 years in our life in Southern California.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I grew up in Minnesota.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can take the boy out of Minnesota, but you can't take the Minnesota out of the boy.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it all feels a little normal for me.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: For Deb, on the other hand, yeah, she's truly become a Californian.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Her blood is turned to orange juice.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So she's cold.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: But she's got such a warm heart, it'll come back so quick.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna be great.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to Deb.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, speaking of things that keep you warm, you have quite a collection of Northwestern gear.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: If you had to guess, how many clothing items do you think you have from Northwestern?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: As as we were packing up our items uh to move from Southern California back here to Minnesota, I I was a little surprised.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I counted, I think, two dozen uh items of clothing from Northwestern.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: After 15 years, I still had all this in my closet.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and then uh I've gained a few more since uh been back as well.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, more than more than a couple dozen.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you showed some of these off at reunion this past summer.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: They these are not just like your your average just meh, Northwestern shirt.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are legit collectible items.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the first one with the um website on it uh when Northwestern was getting to the web era, because that's how old I am, yes.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can we go back to that where we just walk around with our URL on our street?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: You have all these these clothing items because you have a long history with Northwestern.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_04: Give us the high-level version of your Northwestern story.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a student at Northwestern, 1979, graduated in 1983.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, then I went off to Wheaton Graduate School to do a master's degree.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I came back to work on staff at Northwestern in the admissions office because Deb was still a student and I wanted to be closer to her.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we got married uh after she graduated, and I said, you know, I'll just keep the same staff job at Northwestern for uh a little longer.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in 88, we left so that I could get my PhD at Trinity down in the Chicagoland area because I knew I wanted to be a Bible professor.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when I finished that degree in '94, Northwestern hired me back.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I came back and uh taught on faculty.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um boy, and then I left in January of 2011 to go out to Southern California, where I uh worked at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University for the last 15 years.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm back once again.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't looking for the change to come back to Minnesota, but uh President Hornbeek gave us the call around Christmas time, asked us to think and pray about it, and um here we are.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's uh that was a that was gonna be one of my big questions was so is this the plan all along?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So Northwestern hires President Corbin Hornbeek, and then you guys were friends in California, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ahead of actually, we did not know each other in California.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know each other.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, we did not.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: We worked at competing schools.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we just thought everyone in California knows each other.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: I assume that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, we did not know each other.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did not get to know President Hornbeek until um he was president here and started calling on various alumni.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um he had heard that the Huffman's uh were connected to Northwestern.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: He and his wife Heather uh have adult children out in cat in Southern California, so he looked me up when we were out when he was out there, and uh we had breakfast together and several meetings and conversations and uh yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we didn't know each other before, but yeah, we're quickly getting to know each other now.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So how did it happen then?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: When like how did you actually say yes to coming back to Northwestern?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it wasn't already in the books, which it wasn't, um, how did how did it come to be?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh uh one week before Christmas, just um the this uh 12, uh 11 months ago, um Corbin asked if he could call me.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, sure, uh, why not?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I told Deb, I said, he's gonna ask me to be on the board of trustees.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in higher education, we're alumni, um, we you know know something about this.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's what that Deb looks at me and she goes, No, it's something else.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Women's intuition, I guess.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she's listening to my half of the conversation, and and uh President Hornbake is saying, Well, I've decided to uh, you know, we we need to have a school of theology, a standalone school of theology and ministry at Northwestern.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Sure, that's a great idea.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an Obama Northwestern, I'm in theological education, you should do that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: That would really be a good thing for Northwestern.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then he says, And I want you to come and be the dean of the School of Theology and Ministry.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, I stepped right into that, didn't I?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm not asking for decision.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: He says, I just want you to talk about it and pray about it and then get back to us.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I got off the phone.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Deb was listening the whole time, and she says, Okay, we'll talk about it, we'll pray about it, we'll call him back and tell him no.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: We love our life in ministry in Southern California.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's uh a couple months later, we were praying about it and talking about it, and we were convinced together at the same time that you know what, this probably is the thing for us to do.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Given um the experiences the Lord has prepared us with, and given what Northwestern is looking to do, given that we love Northwestern, it's so such a meaningful place to us, maybe this is a way we could steward what the Lord has uh given us in the last season of my professional ministry career.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we came home to Northwestern.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for sharing that story of how that came to be.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you feel like you're back because it's Northwestern?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it are you back because of the role or a combination of both, or something else?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like really, what is it?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I would say it's a combination of those things.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've shared this with people before.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I have a certain buckets theory of life.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um most people they think of you of starting life with an empty bucket and you travel through life and you fill it up, and if you die with a full bucket, you're a winner.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I have the converse bucket theory of life.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the Lord has given me a bunch of things that I'm responsible for to be a good steward of.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, when I'm when I'm born of well, especially when you're born again, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're given a full bucket, and the goal is to move through life and be responsibly taking things out and investing them in the world uh that the Lord has placed us in.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked in my bucket, as it were, and I said, you know, we have things here in Southern California that we could apply ourselves to, but the things I have left in my bucket to give, boy, that's really what Northwestern is looking for right now.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to be a really better steward, yeah, we should probably take this bucket to Northwestern.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when I pass away, I I hope I've invested all my uh things out of my bucket.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to kick an empty bucket.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's the goal in life is to kick an empty bucket.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I I got a chance to hear you share about this this bucket list concept at reunion, and it's still resonating deeply with me.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like my wife and I had have have had multiple conversations about it since that weekend.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've created bucket lists of things that I want to do in my life.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I still think there's some fun to that of things you'd love to enjoy, but but reprioritizing in our heart, like what what has the Lord given us, and how can we say yes to the things that he wants to call and how we want to use our gifts and talents?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and it sounds like this opportunity for you, for hearing you right, was that the Lord was not just that it that you love Northwestern, you have all the shirts from forever, and you've been you love theology and the idea, but there's something in this that the Lord is calling you back.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's something in your bucket that he's asking you to give back right now in this way.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh it got to the point where I looked at Deb and I said, Boy, if if we say no to this opportunity, it would almost feel like we're being disobedient.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like here's an opportunity for us to invest what the Lord has given us.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And are we gonna be selfish and say we don't want to invest it?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to be honest, right, if if it wasn't Northwestern, yeah, it would have been less attractive.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if it wasn't for the passion of President Hornbeek, yeah, those those factored in really heavily into our um uh feeling this call of the Lord on our hearts.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, we would love to invest ourselves to help Northwestern move a move along the the pathway uh of God's design just a little further.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if we could do that, it'll be very satisfying for us.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you one more question on on that topic?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Even though like I respect you just in the way that you live out your faith and you say yes to the Lord, that couldn't have been an easy decision.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that the Lord was calling you into it and you feel called, was it hard to say yes, or or what was that like Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um my wife and I, as we've um uh we've been married for 40 years, so we've had lots of decision opportunities, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we've come up with a couple of decision-making paradigms that we like to uh call ourselves into thinking about as we face um uh significant decisions.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: If if it was a choice between a really good thing and a really bad thing, that'd be an easy decision.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: You just pick the really good thing.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: But whenever we have a choice between two good things, we know there's gonna be those days, whichever choice we make, where we go, huh.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I would have made the other one.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I would have chosen that other option.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, in a very real sense, whenever we're making this choice between do two good things, we're choosing the regrets we're gonna live with.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew if we would have chosen to stay in Southern California, there would be those days where we would go, oh, we I wish we would have gone to Minnesota.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, why didn't we?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but coming to Minnesota, we go, well, there's gonna be those days when we wish we were still in Southern California, days when it's you know 20 below.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're gonna have those days.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Which set of those downer regretful days are we willing to live with?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so we tried that paradigm on, and we said, you know what?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be better for us to be in Minnesota, longing to be back in Southern California with better weather and our wonderful friends there and our fantastic ministries that we had there.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those are gonna be the regretful days that are gonna be easier to live with when we see what the Lord's doing through us here at Northwestern.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and then thinking through what am I gonna do when those days come?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you've already identified them and faced them.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, wow, that's that's really encouraging.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: When we're glad you're here.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can come stop by our office when you're missing California.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: We'll warm you up.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Very similar.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very similar atmosphere.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you talked about a calling to come here, and with that calling comes a title.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna try to say it without stuttering, but here we go.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: You are the Dean, School of Theology and Ministry, Special Advisor to the President.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I need to put my hand on my heart and sing an anthem, but um your title includes special advisor to the president.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean in practice?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I uh we laugh, Deb and I laugh about that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a fancy way to say and other duties as assigned.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a special task uh that the president needs to uh have accomplished.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So right now I'm serving on a as the chair of a task force talking about employment agreement language.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that was a special assignment uh that he granted me.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, recently we've been involved in a little bit of fundraising, um, in some fundraising endeavors.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I've uh written a proposal for uh bringing some dollars to Northwestern's ministry and so little things like that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I occasionally have a meeting with the president where we, you know, do deeper dive and have uh heart-to-heart talks um while we're watching baseball together at the twins uh stadium.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, uh those are those are meaningful interactions.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So well, I know when when the announcement broke that you were coming back to Northwestern, um we heard a lot of positive from alums.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're like so excited to have you back.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And having that that little special advisor to the president in your role is in heartening and encouraging for for us to know that you not only are you at the heart of our School of Theology program that's being developed, but also you're right there with the president.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And in a in a time when our focus is on we are unwavering and we're gonna amplify the gospel, the ability to stay on mission and not drift, like it was of great encouragement to have you come back.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've uh a number of alums have uh uh reached out to me by way of email and phone calls, and they've literally stopped by my office.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been humbling um to uh feel welcomed back by the greater Northwestern family, not just our current faculty and staff, but these alumni from all over.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've really appreciated that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I hope I serve our alums well uh at our beloved alma mater.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh indeed, I mentioned earlier for Deb and me the mission that Corbin Hornbeek, our president, has to make Northwestern more unwavering than ever is part of um the reason that we came back uh to serve our alma maters because yeah, we want to help in whatever way we can to uh bring Northwestern to that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, it's it's about direction and not perfection, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I tell people, yeah, Northwestern's not a perfect school.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: If it was, I couldn't work here.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if I can uh be part of the community that is working its way to this unwavering stance, um representing God's word to God's world, yeah, that's that's where our heart beats.
• 18:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: I think, yeah, people I've heard people saying, well, if Dr.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: Huffman's there, there must be some wonderful things happening because they trust you in your wisdom.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: So that's awesome.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, along with your special advisor to the president role, you're also the dean of the School of Theology and Ministry.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: So what is at the core of that school and what's the focus?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: What's the deepest focus?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the School of Theology Ministry, Northwestern's been uh reorganizing um into this, you know, true university model where this various schools are set up by disciplines and the theological disciplines um are in the school of theology and ministry.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I oversee the undergrad programs for our biblical studies major and our various uh Christian ministries majors, pastoral studies majors, and uh youth work.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we also have some graduate programs.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a Master of Divinity degree, and a Master of Arts degree in theological studies, and a Master of Arts in Ministry Leadership.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really thinking about uh what we can do with those master's degrees and to serve the churches in the uh especially here in the metropolitan area, but those degrees right now are online degrees, so we can serve people everywhere.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But with our location right here in the metropolitan area of what, three and a half million people?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm really um desiring for us to get some uh greater service at the master's level to the churches in the area.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's a massive need right now in the church?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is just additional training for pastors?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I I talked with uh one of the um directors uh or uh superintendents of um uh evangelical church here in the uh upper Midwest.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, there's been a lot of plants, a lot of church plants growing, um, in especially in that denomination.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh he said, you know, any any graduate that you have who can preach expository sermons, I will find a church uh for those graduates.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there seems to be a felt need, especially up here in the upper Midwest.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm uh anxious to get that more fed with our Northwestern, unwavering kind of graduates.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Equipping.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's like truly amplifying the gospel out and equipping.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sensing a calling from students and whether they're masters or traditional undergrad students for just mission work in general?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's your kind of pulse there?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, um there's generational shifts.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and indeed I'm feeling my age.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm feeling more grandfatherly.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started teaching, I was the fun uncle type.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and yeah, now I'm just the grandfather type.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh with really fancy PowerPoints.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um students in this generation are longing, it seems to me, they're longing for deeper roots and deeper connections.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've watched their parents in society be uh loosened and more free agent kind of people.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it seems to me that this generation of young people are looking for uh knowing more and being more convinced of the truth of things.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and maybe that's not surprising seeing in the general culture how everything is so loosey goosey.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people are looking for firmer ground to stand on.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think this is a time when Northwestern can say, Yep, God's word, unwavering.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you're looking for an unwavering stance?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, stand on God's word, we'll help you with that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do for students who are coming back and desiring that, do they still get a minor or a major in Bible?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or uh what's the status of that?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got 28 credits of Bible built into all of the programs.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um if there are transfer students that 28 credits is prorated, uh you know 28 credits basically one Bible class every uh semester that you're here for for uh eight semesters as an undergrad.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's still uh there.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, we even have students that choose uh to do an additional uh little bit of work and get a built-in Bible major, not just the built-in Bible minor.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yes, back in my day, um we were all Bible majors so long ago, really long time ago.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um we were all Bible majors, so it it ebbs and flows with the state requirements, I believe.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: The uh well in the 15 years that I was in Southern California, there was some credit adjustments uh uh going on.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so it used to be 30 credits.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: 30 was the is sort of the minimum number of credits for a major.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So Northwestern, when they had 30 credits of Bible built in in your era, um, that was considered then this built-in major.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it it got reduced down to this 28, so that's a built-in minor.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if students want the the the uh extra credits, then we give them that built-in major too.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So students are are still receiving a minor and they have a chance to take another class or two and and turn that into a major in the Bible as well, um, which is anchoring their and connecting with their desire to be unwavering and to have that formal structure and training.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, back to the the vision of for the School of Theology and Ministry.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right now, or at least before this kind of reorganization, um, there's a department of Christian ministries and a department of biblical and theological studies.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be similarly related, but they're also two worlds.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just talk a little bit about maybe your vision for those two departments?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so those are the two departments that we have in our school of theology and ministry right now.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as Northwestern grows, if that be the Lord's will, we might have to branch out and have several other departments.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, right now, the Biblical and Theological Studies Department has not just Old Testament and New Testament theology, but also our philosophy professors are all in that one department.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if we get bigger and have more professors, we might need to break those into separate departments as well, just for more efficiency.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And on the Christian ministries department side, that's where we have not only our pastoral studies and youth work, but also our intercultural studies, our missions uh kinds of professors.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And there too, if we grow and get bigger, we might need to divide those out into uh more separate departments for better efficiency.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to think about those two separate departments as the uh opposite sides of the coin of theological studies, there's the um intense educational skills side, and there's the intense people side.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So biblical and theological studies on the one side, where they're learning Greek and Hebrew and all of those intense digging into the word.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And on the Christian ministry side is people skills.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do we interact with people?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do we know those?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can we cross cultures well in communicating the gospel?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a very real sense, the school of theology and ministry is trying to embody what President Hornbeek talks about, being unwavering to the word of God and unwavering in our love for the people in the world that God's placed us in.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we're trying to do that with our departments.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do students get to be on both sides of that coin when they're in one of those departments?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the the Bible minor that's built in has got biblical studies uh classes, and it's also got our leadership classes are on the Christian ministries uh side of the of the coin too.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, all Northwestern students have exposure to both of those departments in the School of Theology.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that perspective on the minor and Bible, that it's it's a minor and unwavering.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, in a sense, I know uh Dr.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hornbeek has said you get it, you you leave here with a major, a minor, and a mission.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's he has said, and I I like that the minor is it it's kind of like a minor and unwavering.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of neat.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing that that way.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: One more question, just kind of in that in that world of school theology, and this is more of a personal question to you, is all this stuff is happening, you're you're doing the work of the department and all those things, but what drives you like really like beyond the the what you do, you take those layers back.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you do what you do?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm convinced that God's word really is applicable to the everyday questions of our world.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my own personal um educational history is I I have lived with a foot in both worlds for my educational uh time as a student, and now in my um uh Christian ministry uh part of me.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So my undergrad degree here at Northwestern was a ministries major with a Christian education recreation emphasis because my heart beats for Christian camping.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh by the time I finished, I knew that I had a passion for the academic side of the coin.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I did my master's degrees and uh and my PhD in.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I find myself in these places, not only here at Northwestern, but also when I was out at Biola, um, to be uh living with a foot in both worlds and uh encouraging uh people to take the strong academic academic emphasis in God's word and the truths that we find in Scripture and make them applicable, or actually uh unveil how applicable they already are, um it with uh good people skills um in doing ministry.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I feel like that's a big part of my mission as the dean of the School of Theology is to call these two halves of the coins to be aware of one another and to work together um in uh helping students to recognize the applicability of God's word to the everyday lives that we uh live here.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's so good.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really think just hearing your story and having you back, it's great to have you back here.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I really believe that you've you've also been equipped for this role as much as the role is equipped for you.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we're excited to see what the Lord does um through having you back here, through other staff and faculty, even when you hear from students, they just feel called here, they feel pulled here.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what is the Lord up to?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I I can for sure speak into your life and just offer some encouragement that thank you for being back here.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for saying yes in that bucket list.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Monty.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Cassie.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it is good to be home at Northwestern.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we were just barely scratching the surface uh and talking about theology and unwavering and even hinting at the chosen a little bit at the beginning of this.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we invite you back to campus to come say hi to Doug again to uh for yourself if you haven't yet.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Please.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this is fun.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Doug, we'll have to have you back here on the Unwavering Podcast again in the near future.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be great.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Holding up to your promises, holding up to your thank you for listening.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: To hear more, subscribe and leave a rating wherever you listen.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know an alum, faculty member, staff, or student of Northwestern doing amazing things out in the world, let us know at alumni at unwsp.edu.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: The unwavering podcast, highlighting the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Your love is on the