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17. Healing Generational Trauma: Māori Wisdom & Family Constellations with Margret Leathart · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Before you start listening to this episode, I just wanted to tell you about my New Year's meditation.
• 0:06
  Tracy: You can receive this by registering on my website, and you can listen to this at any time.
• 0:12
  Tracy: Jump over to tracycartwright.co .nz to receive this free.
• 0:20
  Tracy: Kia ora and welcome to constellations and all that.
• 0:26
  Tracy: I'm your host Tracy Cartwright and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators and clients from around the world.
• 0:36
  Tracy: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in Constellations.
• 0:46
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:48
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:56
  Tracy: Kia ora everyone, welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 1:00
  Tracy: Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Marguerite.
• 1:04
  Tracy: Margaret, sorry I was going to call you Margaret, Margaret Kumeroa -Lethar, did I pronounce that correctly?
• 1:11
  Margret: Yeah, well and always known as Makareta.
• 1:14
  Tracy: Margarita.
• 1:15
  Tracy: Hei.
• 1:16
  Tracy: I do remember that now.
• 1:18
  Margret: Just keep it simple.
• 1:20
  Tracy: We met many years ago in Auckland didn't we.
• 1:25
  Tracy: We did.
• 1:26
  Tracy: Yeah and and remembering that.
• 1:28
  Tracy: So beautiful.
• 1:29
  Tracy: Welcome.
• 1:29
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 1:32
  Tracy: Na mihi Tracy.
• 1:34
  Tracy: It's good to see
• 1:34
  Margret: you again.
• 1:36
  Margret: So, ka tau taku manu ki runga o Tongarero, e rere ana ngā wai roto aina e rere nei.
• 1:45
  Margret: Ko te Aroa, te waka, ara ko Ngāti Tūwharetoa, rere atu taku manu ki Ngāti Hikairo, a ka tau taku manu ki a Ngāti Waiwai.
• 2:01
  Margret: Ko Wharerangi Kumero toku papa, no Tokoranga ia. Tukarangi ia. Ko Kurereia te whutahi, tōku mama, nō Pipiriki ia. Ko Piripania ahau, ko Tukarangi me Whanganui ahau, kei Piripani, Ahitareiria ahau, e noho ana.
• 2:22
  Margret: Ko Makareta Kumeroretha tōku ingoa.
• 2:25
  Margret: Ngā mihi.
• 2:26
  Margret: Tēnā koutou katoa.
• 2:28
  Tracy: Welcome, thank you.
• 2:32
  Tracy: So, as you know, this is a real casual conversation, so I'm just going to jump right in and ask you, how did you first meet Family Constellations?
• 2:43
  Margret: Family Constellations came in as part of the arena back in 2000 and Oh, I can't remember the exact year.
• 2:53
  Margret: My older children, of course, were moving on in their lives, which gave me a space to walk into what I needed to do and wanted to do.
• 3:01
  Margret: So I decided to pick up some study and that's actually where I found the realm of family constellations.
• 3:08
  Margret: the Kaiako auteature at that time, very well known throughout Australia and also I'm guessing on the international realm, Margaret Kounene from Maligny of Queensland.
• 3:25
  Tracy: Beautiful, yes.
• 3:26
  Tracy: Margaret is coming to Ōtaharoa next year for our intensive hair that we are having in April, which is amazing.
• 3:34
  Tracy: She's been a beautiful inspiration.
• 3:37
  Tracy: I call her a beautiful inspiration in my work as well.
• 3:40
  Margret: Yes, I had the privilege of working with Margaret for many years.
• 3:46
  Margret: At that time she had her support and very beautiful to work.
• 3:52
  Margret: with the German whānau, uh, and came on board to, uh, we had a very, well, I felt we had a very different arrangement.
• 4:02
  Margret: It was very lovely to be able to walk in and to be who I am in all ways.
• 4:07
  Margret: And to come in, um, first of all, uh, was to support, uh, also to continue my learning after we had done our training, because she was my trainer.
• 4:17
  Margret: Uh, where we eventually, I eventually moved to and then uh, going up to support when she would have her day circles and of course Which a lot of us who, uh, have been privileged to be part of Māori training.
• 4:34
  Margret: A lot of us love Malaina.
• 4:36
  Margret: It's a beautiful place.
• 4:37
  Margret: The land, the maunga, the whenua, it really holds this work very beautifully.
• 4:45
  Margret: And of course, I'm sure there's places throughout, um, Ahitareira as well.
• 4:50
  Tracy: It has a, um, I've never been there, but there's a feel to it.
• 4:54
  Tracy: Even when you say the name of it, there's a feel to the energy of the place.
• 4:59
  Margret: Yeah, outside there is, but in the community it's just very different, changing of course over time as it does when you have more people from, you know, from different states come in or further afar, changes the culture of the town.
• 5:15
  Margret: But it has a beautiful and strong heart and I've always been connected to that place well before, well before Meti Marguerite.
• 5:22
  Margret: So, um, yeah, it's always been my home away from home.
• 5:27
  Margret: And, uh, everybody actually thought, Tracey, that I actually came from there because they were so used to seeing me there, and I went, Oh, hell no! I like Brisbane! And they go, What?
• 5:37
  Margret: And sometimes they used to ask about some of the alternatives, you know, with their markets and all that.
• 5:41
  Margret: And I go, Well, you should know.
• 5:43
  Margret: You know, you've been living here for ages.
• 5:45
  Margret: I don't live here.
• 5:46
  Margret: And that that was quite a shock to everybody.
• 5:49
  Margret: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Margret: I said to them, if I came and lived here, then I wouldn't appreciate it as much as I do when I do and have had the opportunity to go up.
• 5:59
  Margret: Not to take things for granted, is what I'm saying.
• 6:02
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:04
  Tracy: So how do you use constellations?
• 6:09
  Tracy: Part of your daily?
• 6:12
  Tracy: How do you use constellations?
• 6:15
  Tracy: So like as in, are you offering, are you working with it intentionally, or is it part of what you do in conversation, or is it part of the mahi that you offer in your service to, in work?
• 6:30
  Margret: Yes, all of those.
• 6:32
  Margret: I've had a bit of a break this year as I've had to compose, um, some time for self -care.
• 6:39
  Margret: I do, I have seen throughout, throughout the years and even beyond the world of constellations, how self -care is a vital, um, I have witnessed when people come into this work, you know, some people are very sensitive.
• 6:58
  Margret: Very sensitive to the field, to the feminology, I don't like to call it that way, but I guess if we're talking about normal family constellations, which I call normal formal, as Margaret would know, you know, it has its sensitivity to some, and then there's those that just absolutely love the work, they know what it can do.
• 7:19
  Margret: As I said before, it's the beauty of being able to work.
• 7:22
  Margret: in the field continuously to see how it can affect many many people the work that comes out of it um as you would know what happens in the space stays in the space uh that has been my probably more of my greater teacher.
• 7:42
  Margret: Without the people, none of us would be able to do this work.
• 7:47
  Margret: Without the people, the knowledge, you know, the knowledge and experiences can and can't be shared.
• 7:55
  Margret: Um, whether it be personal healing, whether it be, you know, looking for those stuck moments.
• 8:00
  Margret: For me, the work happens when it happens.
• 8:03
  Margret: I like to work in safety.
• 8:06
  Margret: I have my, my own issues with safety and all those.
• 8:10
  Margret: That I spend circle or time with, that is one of my biggest things that I teach.
• 8:16
  Margret: In my experience as an indigenous and Māori, uh, wahine, I have found That there are times and places with spaces that needs to be held a little bit more consciously.
• 8:32
  Margret: And to me, that's very important.
• 8:34
  Margret: So that when those that go away, there are no draining effects there.
• 8:39
  Margret: You know, the, as you and I would know, Tracy, the integration of the work can happen gently, safely.
• 8:47
  Margret: So that's one of my, that's one of my priorities as a facilitator, as a teacher, as a healer, and as a person.
• 8:54
  Margret: They, all my, all my worlds run into one when I walk through the door and put my hat on and do the work of constellations.
• 9:04
  Tracy: It's interesting that you talk about self -care because that's been a really prominent conversation of recent of because there's a lot of burnout.
• 9:12
  Tracy: I'm noticing a lot of burnout around me.
• 9:15
  Tracy: And I'm also taking another look, a deeper look at my own.
• 9:19
  Tracy: I've been going full on this year.
• 9:23
  Tracy: It's been incredibly busy.
• 9:24
  Tracy: So I feel like there's some messages there around the South Kia and I, yeah, I'm setting some things into, into.
• 9:34
  Tracy: Practice for that on another level.
• 9:37
  Tracy: So thank you for
• 9:38
  Margret: I just think it's very important because when we're working in that realm and it is a different realm, even though in the world of family constellations to me from my perspective at times that can be taken from a minefield or from a clinical field or from a professional field.
• 9:56
  Margret: I like to look from the grassroots up.
• 9:58
  Margret: Yes.
• 9:59
  Margret: Because the grassroots type is what will support and sustain not only myself but those that I work with and those that, that come and be present.
• 10:08
  Margret: That is my number one because to me it's very natural and elemental in the way that it works within indigenous tribes.
• 10:16
  Margret: And that's one thing I can say being a Māori and an indigenous person.
• 10:21
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 10:22
  Tracy: In your whānau, in your family, what has, if you don't mind sharing and you're welcome to say no, um, or find another way of expressing this, what is some of the things that you've noticed that have shifted in since you have been experiencing constellations, without going into the detail of it?
• 10:42
  Margret: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Margret: Well, one thing I can share with you is when you and I first met, we came to Angelica's workshop, you were doing your training, I believe.
• 10:52
  Margret: You met my mother and you met my brother.
• 10:54
  Margret: My brother had flown over to come and have a look.
• 10:58
  Margret: Anything that involved our mum, that was where we did very beautifully.
• 11:03
  Margret: You know, to look after her, to hold her space in the best way that we could support her.
• 11:09
  Margret: So with that little story, our mother came.
• 11:11
  Margret: I actually didn't think she would come because she usually was, yes, yes, yes, my dear, I'm coming, I'm coming.
• 11:16
  Margret: And then usually the day before, if not on that one, she goes, I don't want to come.
• 11:21
  Margret: So that was actually my expectation with no expectation, if that makes sense.
• 11:26
  Margret: And then, you know, I was so I felt I was, I was, I was so privileged as my mother's daughter that my mother came and there was no pressure, it wasn't even, it wasn't even about her coming to, to do a constellation.
• 11:42
  Margret: It was just so lovely to share a circle in some of the work that I knew that I wasn't going to be working in one day and to have the people that I love most dearest beside me.
• 11:55
  Margret: And in that meeting, that is where you got to meet two of my family members at that time.
• 12:03
  Margret: And my mother was so, look, my mother came because she did not.
• 12:08
  Margret: She didn't really, she didn't really know what Family Constellations was about.
• 12:13
  Margret: She could tell, she could tell by sometimes our conversations that we had.
• 12:18
  Margret: Um, but I just said to her, well mum, I said, and as I said, could you just come and spend the day with me?
• 12:24
  Margret: I don't know what will unfold, I don't know what will happen, but I just said this is going to be.
• 12:30
  Margret: The work that I hope to do, not only for myself, but our family, our culture, our people, knowing the entanglements and the trauma that had and has existed, and probably still does exist in our family field, and knowing the importance of having a parent next door.
• 12:54
  Margret: You know, next to you in these circles, how prevalent and relevant that would be.
• 13:00
  Margret: My brother flying over, why?
• 13:02
  Margret: Because he could, and he wanted to, was just the icing on the cake.
• 13:07
  Margret: And of course he would have his stories to share.
• 13:10
  Margret: So we felt so privileged because, you know, thinking I didn't think that I'd end up.
• 13:16
  Margret: could be going first, because I usually like to go last, let alone if you get choice by the way that um, Angelica facilitates.
• 13:26
  Margret: So yes, and as you saw that that unfolded.
• 13:29
  Margret: My mother died just before Christmas that year.
• 13:33
  Margret: And the most beautiful thing that I could ever hope for her was when we finished and we come away, took the trip down to Matamata and, you know, over time put up on sleep for, for her, she came around and she said to me, you know what Margie, she goes.
• 13:54
  Margret: When I die, and when that time comes soon, I'm going to be so happy.
• 13:59
  Margret: And why Tracy?
• 14:00
  Margret: Because she had never ever experienced true peace.
• 14:05
  Margret: Wow.
• 14:06
  Margret: And that peace that she had experienced while witnessing Anne being part of the constellation, I would say gave her the doorway to... The next journey of her, of her pathway, so it is the best and most magical story that I could share because I was only, I was only in my training at that time.
• 14:32
  Margret: So, um, let alone the repercussions, the beautiful repercussions that has fallen upon my brother that has, was there as a witness.
• 14:40
  Margret: And then that has.
• 14:42
  Margret: For the, I guess, through the work that I, he, and we all do to help our own family system, our whakapapa.
• 14:52
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 14:53
  Tracy: I've just like, as you're sharing that, my heart was expanding and I remember, and I'm feeling the energy of that day and, and the emotion and the, oh, that was so beautiful.
• 15:06
  Tracy: That is so beautiful.
• 15:07
  Tracy: I can still feel that.
• 15:09
  Tracy: I
• 15:10
  Margret: don't know if you remember, Tracey, when she walked in, she walked in quite frail.
• 15:14
  Margret: And then when she walked out, she had her tokotoko in her hand, and she was like a pau there, like a kaumātua, standing strong.
• 15:23
  Margret: And up until the, honestly, up until the last two or three weeks, maybe a little bit further than that, that is how she, she remained, even though, as we, as we transition into the next lifetime, even though that was happening.
• 15:37
  Margret: So I could not have wished for a better experience.
• 15:45
  Margret: And also for her, I think she would allow me to share this, you know, with our family, our immediate family, I have seven siblings.
• 15:56
  Margret: My dad had passed very early, and I had three siblings that had passed not long after birth.
• 16:02
  Margret: The biggest gift, the second, well I don't know if it was the second or part of the first, but another gift that my mother had received from that was having that representation work.
• 16:13
  Margret: To see her family, let alone her husband, again.
• 16:20
  Margret: To me, that was the magic as being part of our immediate family connection.
• 16:29
  Tracy: So good.
• 16:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Margret: And, and, and, you know, always, always for the grace and the gratitude of.
• 16:38
  Margret: Angelica um, you know, holding, actually having a space to come through.
• 16:42
  Margret: I know I felt very comfortable because when she told me what her background was and what her space powered and I was like yep, I think that will tickle my mama's fancy even though she won't know.
• 16:54
  Margret: So yeah, and meeting, and meeting you and James and you know all those, my biggest experience to coming from that was also being able to do the work on my homeland.
• 17:08
  Margret: Yes.
• 17:09
  Tracy: The doors and the opportunities that are opened, hey?
• 17:13
  Margret: Absolutely, and have been opened, and yeah.
• 17:17
  Margret: So, I haven't been dormant in back home.
• 17:20
  Margret: There's always been, like, there's been, um, a bit more than a few people that, when I had come home, and it was to open up doors.
• 17:30
  Margret: When I went back to my, to where I come from, my whakapapa too, there was... Quite big kōrero, and due to that, I respect that very, very much because I understood what they had experienced through, and this is through international facilitators coming through.
• 17:51
  Margret: I understood it as being a little, maybe it was, uh, maybe in some ways of the lack of humbleness.
• 18:00
  Margret: And also the little bit of ego, little bit of ego floating around, and you would know what, what our, what our kaumatua are like, you know, if that, if that exists.
• 18:13
  Margret: So I always believe that there's a time and a place, you know, for anything, especially for this realm of work.
• 18:22
  Margret: I've definitely been guided to, you know, to the pathway of what I've needed to do, what I'll continue to do.
• 18:28
  Margret: And hopefully have those.
• 18:31
  Margret: That, you know, that we dance, we kanikani, and katakata, and korero, um, will unfold and, you know, keep walking forward in Family Constellations.
• 18:42
  Tracy: Where do you see yourself going with it in the future?
• 18:48
  Tracy: From, like, because you, you live in Brisbane, um, do you have, yeah, where do you see yourself taking it from, from here?
• 18:58
  Margret: It's wherever I go, you know, wherever those that I'm co -facilitating with.
• 19:04
  Margret: It's wherever we go, it's a conscious part of us.
• 19:07
  Margret: It's knowing when to switch it on and when to switch it off.
• 19:10
  Tracy: So are you running workshops in Brisbane?
• 19:13
  Margret: As I said, apart from this year, yes, I'm not in Brisbane.
• 19:16
  Margret: I go where I need to go.
• 19:18
  Margret: I go where I'm guided to go by my tūpuna.
• 19:21
  Margret: They are my compass and they are my navigator.
• 19:24
  Margret: And I trust that whatever is meant to be, whether it takes me to stand on my feet and do my haka or not, that is what I'm very resourced to do.
• 19:37
  Margret: Because at the end of the day, this is about home money.
• 19:40
  Margret: about the safety.
• 19:42
  Margret: I've come, you know, we've been, we've been graced to meet, you know, quite a handful of people, a bit more than a handful, of where they've been able to share their experiences.
• 19:55
  Margret: And as much as I could come out and, you know, be at the level that yous are doing, I took a different pathway.
• 20:02
  Margret: At the end of the day for me, everybody has the right to do family constellation with or to have that, to have that understanding and that realm given to you.
• 20:14
  Margret: And I do believe that it shouldn't be left to a hierarchy of those that are privileged and are fortunate.
• 20:21
  Margret: I mean, this comes in everybody, everybody has the ability to have this consciousness.
• 20:27
  Margret: Why?
• 20:28
  Margret: We say that they can be independent or they can have a little bit of knowledge to further their schools or their understanding to help their own family systems.
• 20:40
  Margret: And I feel very strongly about that when it comes to different cultures.
• 20:44
  Margret: I can only say that because I come from a, I come from, I'm Kiwi, I'm Māori and I come from a culture, but I've also had plenty of conversations that lead to.
• 21:00
  Margret: are similar when it comes to either helping our own people or it helps those to become arms and grace.
• 21:10
  Margret: With this beautiful modality.
• 21:14
  Margret: So I've looked at it as a modality because I came into this will, grace to be a healer.
• 21:20
  Margret: And that's where I kind of took about family constellations, which I know have been invited here.
• 21:25
  Margret: And I call that's the normal formal part that, that, you know, how we've trained.
• 21:30
  Margret: Um, but the other side, I have another hat, uh, that I put on that supports it.
• 21:37
  Margret: And that's where I'm around me.
• 21:40
  Margret: And, um, both wheels, you know, as you know, Trace, we can do all wheels.
• 21:45
  Margret: I just like to be very conscious because as much as I am conscious and as much as I know myself and how I tick and what, what, what my intentions are, what leads me, I'm not saying that what is charged for family constellation Is, is, not talking about good, bad, ugly, I'm not talking about that.
• 22:07
  Margret: I'm talking about what is affordable for everyday people to have access to their work.
• 22:13
  Margret: That is my ground cover.
• 22:15
  Margret: That is where I will walk on this whenua throughout, you know, throughout Papatoa and Luku to be able to offer and share that.
• 22:24
  Margret: So, there's two wheels to it.
• 22:26
  Margret: And, um, at the moment that's beyond racing, so my answer was whatever.
• 22:32
  Margret: Wherever my waiwai leave me on Papatūanuku.
• 22:37
  Tracy: That's the one?
• 22:38
  Margret: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Tracy: That's fantastic.
• 22:42
  Tracy: I do quite a bit of work on marae up in Pākanae, and I've been doing a little bit down in Te Kawiri as well.
• 22:52
  Margret: I already know who is Tacton.
• 22:54
  Margret: Who is tapped in doing different, the constellation work in New Zealand.
• 23:00
  Margret: Yeah, my thing is to, I don't know what, for those that have come and walked in through, you know, your offer of bringing facility, uh, to bring in constellations into New Zealand.
• 23:12
  Margret: I hope a lot of our Māori people have the honour, privilege and the support from their own hapū, iwi, tangata to be able to facilitate and bring that to their own people.
• 23:25
  Margret: I know what it's like to be Māori and I, you know, you meet, I'm sure you do too, you meet different nationalities and it's such a different spectrum to, for me, sorry, I apologise, for me it's a different spectrum because I've either done that myself as to what feels comfortable, what feels natural and when you have the privilege to not only being able to either facilitate or represent and somebody to do that, but also to be able to represent and to be able to be a part of that, I think it's a really, really important part of being a Māori person.
• 23:56
  Margret: else's constellation, and then they are of another race, they are of another culture, uh, people of colour.
• 24:05
  Margret: To me, if there is a duty of care to offer them whatever they can to support and gift them with the training or give them with experience, to me, that would be my, my number one way to go.
• 24:21
  Margret: That way it can be shared amongst.
• 24:24
  Margret: Yeah.
• 24:25
  Margret: Amongst and throughout the world.
• 24:27
  Tracy: Yes, this work is incredible, right?
• 24:29
  Tracy: And the more that we can share, the more that, the more ripples that it affects.
• 24:34
  Tracy: Or spreads out from the lives that it touches.
• 24:37
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 24:38
  Margret: Yeah.
• 24:39
  Margret: And as a healer, you know, coming from a healer and a healer perspective, we know that when we become empowered to learn how to look after our bodies, learn how to self -care, not to have that reliance on other, but to connect with others who you may be On that journey, wherever you are in your own life, is to be able to get those skills and hone those in to help one to heal, and then to help one, talking about family constellations, to look at where that timelines in their whakapapa, in their genealogy.
• 25:14
  Margret: Because who else can, who else is better than for those within, and I truly believe that there is always one person.
• 25:23
  Margret: And every family system that is called to do this work.
• 25:28
  Tracy: It's not always easy to say yes to it though, is it, for some people.
• 25:33
  Tracy: Others are like, yep, this is what I'm here to do, I'm called to do this.
• 25:37
  Tracy: And for some it's quite resistance in that, because it's...
• 25:41
  Margret: Yeah, that's where, that's where time and patience comes in, as a facilitator.
• 25:46
  Margret: Or as a person, simple person who cares.
• 25:49
  Margret: You know, my rōpū who, where we work together, we, we take that time, uh, to do what we need to do.
• 25:58
  Margret: As we know, we don't know until we make a circle and, you know, do that karanga and then see what unfolds.
• 26:06
  Margret: So everything is done, you know, within that time for whoever needs it and to their, you know, to their timing.
• 26:16
  Margret: Not, not so much from a, okay, this is what we're going to do.
• 26:20
  Margret: And to me that just goes, that's allowed me as a facilitator in this work to, in Family Constellations, to actually really find a tune who I am.
• 26:31
  Margret: I may have different language, I may have different ways to facilitate.
• 26:37
  Margret: But I only use what I know that I know again, that brings some safety.
• 26:43
  Margret: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Margret: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Margret: And also have fun and enjoy and meet absolutely fantastic and wonderful people.
• 26:51
  Margret: To me, that is what I love is meeting new people, you know, as you come along and I get all, I do get all excited, but at the same time going, wow.
• 27:01
  Margret: You know, how I work, of course, I, I, um, sometimes it's just a little bit more, as you would know, a little bit more than the who is in the room.
• 27:10
  Margret: And, um, that's where I've been able to ensure that I take the time out to do what I need to do for my, for my health and well -being, especially, especially as I'm not on the young side, you know, I'm on the old web.
• 27:24
  Margret: I'm on the older side, so otherwise I may become a burden to my children and they would not like that.
• 27:34
  Margret: You've got to have fun while you're doing it too, so one thing to facilitate with is a lot of humour, is a lot of natural and you know it's um, and that continues to grow.
• 27:47
  Margret: I believe each circle does unfold who comes to that space at that day.
• 27:53
  Margret: Uh, at that time, in that year.
• 27:58
  Tracy: I'd love to see you facilitate some time.
• 28:02
  Tracy: Just have to give us an
• 28:03
  Margret: invitation.
• 28:04
  Tracy: Next time.
• 28:05
  Tracy: Yeah, next time.
• 28:06
  Tracy: I turn it over as well.
• 28:08
  Margret: Uh.
• 28:09
  Tracy: Yeah, we can see what we can make happen, hey?
• 28:13
  Tracy: That heart opening.
• 28:14
  Tracy: I see that shift in people.
• 28:17
  Tracy: Sometimes it's just a little tiny crack of the heart opening, right?
• 28:21
  Margret: And
• 28:21
  Tracy: then sometimes it's a full -on chest expansion feeling or witnessing.
• 28:29
  Tracy: But whether it's big or little, the shifts that are profound within the space, when someone comes along to have an experience and just willing to be open, open -hearted or curious in the ripple effects that that has on our whānau, it's amazing.
• 28:49
  Tracy: And I was just, it was that.
• 28:51
  Tracy: I was just going to
• 28:52
  Margret: say, those that are, you know, when we, when we, you know, when we put in the energy to hold a circle, and as you know, but all those that come to the circle come for their, for a specific reason, whether it's to witness, whether it's to represent.
• 29:10
  Margret: Or whether it's the hope of having a constellation done.
• 29:15
  Margret: And what I, what I love about the heart is the heart knows.
• 29:21
  Margret: If we have dislodgement in our mind, I believe constellation can help align the heart, the mind.
• 29:30
  Margret: And of course, to me, the realm that I love to work in is within the wairua, when we have alignment, then that's what supports a person to be able to do or open up, as well as for the weaving of the facilitator that's doing the work.
• 29:49
  Margret: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Tracy: So not everybody's going to know what wairua is.
• 29:53
  Tracy: Can you explain that for our listeners?
• 29:55
  Tracy: Well,
• 29:57
  Margret: to me, if we were talking about the field of family constellations, it's a big aspect of that word feminology.
• 30:05
  Margret: Was that correct?
• 30:08
  Margret: Yeah, so that's what I learned that when we were going into that realm, that that is, that assimilates to Wairoa for those that of course that are English speaking, that aligns.
• 30:22
  Margret: In a specific way that the feminology of the field, when you're born into it and you know it, whether it's conscious or not, that it's just an every, every, every day knowing.
• 30:37
  Margret: Sometimes we may need to be brought to that invitation or brought to that experience.
• 30:42
  Margret: You know, so that's why I say working people of culture with their own people really helps support and assimilate that experience.
• 30:52
  Margret: I'm not saying that, you know, you have to, I just say that I believe that it makes those that are doing the work and facilitating to help, you know.
• 31:01
  Margret: And sometimes I do know that some people don't like to, they prefer to go out of their culture.
• 31:07
  Margret: Um, you know, and again, it is a personal choice.
• 31:10
  Margret: We're all guided.
• 31:11
  Margret: To who, to who we resonate with.
• 31:16
  Margret: I just know that some of the work that needs to be done can be done, as I said before, very safely.
• 31:24
  Margret: With the help of the field, with the heart, the heart knows.
• 31:30
  Margret: That's the biggest thing.
• 31:32
  Margret: The heart will know.
• 31:33
  Margret: And it's about ensuring people that when they are sitting, that they have that, you know, they have that connection.
• 31:44
  Margret: As we know, Constellation work is done, you know, in the soul.
• 31:50
  Margret: I don't know about you, Tracey, but man, I definitely got a lot of soul.
• 31:53
  Margret: And I love my soul sisters, and I love my soul music, and I think...
• 31:58
  Margret: When I come from that part as a facilitator, it is very light, it is very, it is very supportive and also to acknowledge my tūpuna, my ancestors, those that have brought me to this time and space, you know, in the 2000, the year 2000 up, for me to actually align me to find the modality that I was looking for when I was a teenager.
• 32:25
  Margret: So it was when I found out, and my first, I'll tell you this part, sorry if I'm getting away from the heart, but my first experience in Family Constellations, I did not enjoy.
• 32:38
  Margret: I didn't enjoy it because the invitation we were given ended up being a bigger invitation for me only.
• 32:47
  Margret: And later on, when I found out the dynamics, let alone Marguerite was coming in to do our training for, you know, for our study.
• 32:55
  Margret: And there were like five of us, five, six of us actually, uh, that were very hesitant about coming along because of that little, that little experience.
• 33:07
  Margret: I, I do know the stories of the others, which, which of course I can't share, but I, I wasn't sure about what was mine.
• 33:16
  Margret: And I do know that before we, before Margaret had come, it was kind of like, you should have seen me that morning, Tracey, it was so funny.
• 33:24
  Margret: I was at my door and I go through and I thought, but no, I'm not going.
• 33:27
  Margret: Yes, I am going.
• 33:28
  Margret: No, I'm not going.
• 33:30
  Margret: And then I thought, okay, what supports me to get me out the door to go to somewhere where I'm unsure about actually going?
• 33:37
  Margret: And I'm just saying, because we had not yet met Margaret at that time.
• 33:40
  Margret: So I went down and on my way there, I bought some flowers.
• 33:44
  Margret: Cos flowers is my way of, you know, has beautiful sentiment, uh, sentimental values in all ways.
• 33:51
  Margret: And I went there, went to go and put my lunch away, sat down there, and then, you know, saw, uh, we also have people that come from outside in our community to be part of this.
• 34:04
  Margret: And I found my seat.
• 34:06
  Margret: And sat down and then did what I needed to do, even though I had done that before I had left home to kind of, you know, my tikanga, my way of, of, of anchoring and sat there and, uh, went up, um, not long after that to give the flowers to Marguerite.
• 34:28
  Margret: And part of that, what was going in, and I have to say it was in my heart, but it was in my mind going, Oh, well, I hope.
• 34:34
  Margret: This ends up being a beautiful wiki, knowing that there was uncertainty about what this work was really about.
• 34:41
  Margret: And my experiences on that, on that exercise, which ended up being a full constellation, I ended up going last.
• 34:49
  Margret: Um, I was at the beginning of the line and I was jumping back and I'm just going, oh, this is a bit more than, this is a bit more than, you know, just doing mother, father and child.
• 35:00
  Margret: So ever since that, And all the little things that happen as we do training have been good learning aspects to ensure that those foundations that I offer are really noticed and quite intentional of being a better facilitator to hold the space, um, as best we can to do the work.
• 35:27
  Margret: And, um, yeah, and I believe to do that you definitely have to have a lot of heart.
• 35:33
  Margret: Because you and I know the blessing that comes out of this work when you see a person who may never have had, you know, who may have been numb for a very long time or where that exists, you know, in their lineage to finally find a smile.
• 35:53
  Margret: You know, those are moments that are so beautiful to witness, both as a person and both as a facilitator, you know, and also for that to be seen from those that are also sitting.
• 36:10
  Margret: So yeah, I believe in foundations.
• 36:13
  Margret: Foundations are very, very, very important.
• 36:16
  Margret: You can have the other knowledge of the work and all that.
• 36:20
  Margret: Um, and I guess as facilitators we all round, I definitely believe that, you know, you need to do the work to get that experience as well.
• 36:28
  Margret: And not, I can say that quite clearly, and not.
• 36:34
  Margret: But a balance of both is, is always a pinnacle to one's skill set.
• 36:41
  Margret: The
• 36:43
  Tracy: indigenous communities in Australia, are they, are they finding you?
• 36:49
  Margret: Are they what, sorry?
• 36:51
  Tracy: Are they finding you in this work?
• 36:52
  Tracy: Like, are they, because I know that there are very few indigenous facilitators in Australia.
• 36:59
  Margret: The same as what I was talking about, that those that facilitate.
• 37:03
  Margret: We, for being, for being a person privileged to live on the lands of Australia, you know, and to respect and acknowledge, you know, our First Nations people, our elders of past, present and future, which I apologise, I should have done that acknowledgement before I started my kōrero.
• 37:22
  Margret: To me, it's very important that they work with their own.
• 37:27
  Margret: And if you're privileged to be part of that circle or to run with them, you are so privileged.
• 37:33
  Margret: So, of course, I've, of course, had my own networks to be, to share.
• 37:39
  Margret: It's done very differently, Tracey, very, very, very differently.
• 37:43
  Margret: When we have been given invitation to do that, it's so easy.
• 37:49
  Margret: It's so easy.
• 37:50
  Margret: It's how I see how it will be back home, you know, back home on the marae with a different consciousness.
• 37:56
  Margret: It is beautiful to witness those that do the work and facilitate to be with their own kin, to be with their own mob, because they know how to do it exactly for their own.
• 38:12
  Margret: And there's so much healing and there's so much work that needs to be done.
• 38:17
  Margret: I never take for granted when we have those opportunities.
• 38:20
  Margret: I don't share much of those stories because it's always an invitation.
• 38:25
  Margret: Whether I have tangata whenua from here come and be part of that.
• 38:29
  Margret: You know, it becomes a consciousness.
• 38:32
  Margret: Anybody really that comes to the surf, but for me, it's a little bit more precious and succinct.
• 38:41
  Margret: It's a privilege.
• 38:42
  Margret: It's really, really a privilege.
• 38:45
  Margret: And yes, we have had some, some fun times.
• 38:49
  Margret: They're very, I found in my experience when I've had, um, when I've had mob, it's been a way to, when I first started doing constellation work, Tracy, there were very, very, not many Pākehā.
• 39:04
  Margret: There might have been a couple and the rest of us were all indigenous.
• 39:08
  Tracy: Fantastic!
• 39:09
  Margret: Yeah, and as I said, it's not about me holding the space for the service.
• 39:14
  Margret: It's about supporting those that, that know.
• 39:17
  Margret: And I love it when you get to have the elders as well.
• 39:20
  Margret: That's, that's precious.
• 39:23
  Margret: Some of our elders over here are a little bit, you know, a little bit different and phased.
• 39:29
  Margret: But as I said, the tūpuna, my ancestors, our ancestors guide and lead us wherever we may go.
• 39:38
  Margret: The biggest thing I always get a growling for is to ensure that I do self -care first.
• 39:44
  Margret: So, and, you know, as we, as older women, we go through our crim stages, our wise women stages, so that's been part of the reason, especially over the last year and a little bit more from last year and other.
• 39:58
  Margret: When I get interventions that, that really come in my face, I go, okay, I need time out.
• 40:06
  Margret: I need to go, I need to go and sit on the land.
• 40:08
  Margret: I need to go and do my own thing.
• 40:10
  Margret: And that's, that's what I've been, um, I guess now that I, also my, all my children, uh, that were adults, they've all been brought into the world of family constellations as well.
• 40:22
  Margret: It's been lovely because now that they've, uh, been gone from home for quite a while, I have a lot more freedom.
• 40:29
  Margret: I'm just now introducing a beautiful fourpaws.
• 40:33
  Margret: His name is Wairoa.
• 40:34
  Margret: He is my Labrador.
• 40:37
  Margret: Retriever, two -year -old.
• 40:39
  Margret: He's not a pup because he's a big pup and, uh, yeah, so we'll be sharing a little bit of, uh, the Constellation world together.
• 40:49
  Margret: Yeah, for, even for his, you know, even for his benefits as well, uh, let alone, let alone mine.
• 40:55
  Margret: So, it's always good to know when you need to take that time out and not to be afraid to do it.
• 41:00
  Margret: I do believe some people, I do believe... And I have seen and witnessed that some people, you know, I, I understand, you know, as I know when I get older, I trust that I will be able to hang my boots up and then I can be in a place to support.
• 41:17
  Margret: Um, you know, more than actually doing the work because we need to let the other generations come through, yes, for it to continue, for it to continue, whether it be family constellations, normal, formal, or other and that was the big question I had proposed to Margaret about the young ones.
• 41:36
  Margret: Because there were no young ones that were coming through in training.
• 41:40
  Margret: And so we had a very deep ingrained conversation about that.
• 41:45
  Margret: Now it's beautiful to see she now has a lot more younger ones coming through.
• 41:51
  Margret: Um, you know, otherwise, where is your wealth of wisdom and your gifts and your legacies to be passed on?
• 42:00
  Margret: And now I trust that that has now been anchored and put in for her and all of her family.
• 42:07
  Margret: She has a big family and, you know, um, as I said, for me, I feel very privileged because I've been able to be part of that family.
• 42:16
  Margret: Oh, Tracy, you know, four Germans and a Māori.
• 42:20
  Margret: And I loved it when we were all kind of like sticking to our own heartsets or our own mindsets.
• 42:29
  Margret: Yeah.
• 42:31
  Tracy: Yeah, I found some, well, Angelica is German and she, you know, she learnt in Germany with birds and that, and finding my own space in it, in the work, like finding, because you know, as you shared, we're doing our own work as well.
• 42:52
  Tracy: And when that landed in, I call it my Tracee -isms, I sort of like, found me in it, and take some of that.
• 42:59
  Tracy: The structure from the German, but bringing in my Kiwi humour and, um, trying to keep it light, but at the same time safe and grounded and solid and, um, yeah.
• 43:13
  Margret: Yes, I also have a beautiful German friend, she's over there, she actually, um, I think she would be okay with me to share, just checking in.
• 43:23
  Margret: Um, you know, she had, she had her experiences when she did her training when she was back home.
• 43:30
  Margret: And she also worked with Bert Hillinger, so it's actually been wonderful to hear her, uh, her stories, her experience, her wise.
• 43:42
  Margret: And, um, you know, she would be one entrusted person other than already have to actually, we wouldn't even have to work together, it's just been in that space to hold.
• 43:56
  Margret: And she wears many hats, like very many, many, many hats, but it's just nice to have in England because she does round differently.
• 44:04
  Margret: Her experience in Orwell's is vast.
• 44:06
  Margret: It's so lovely to hear just another story of.
• 44:11
  Margret: Her experiences in the learning, in the training, and then her reasons why I really value that because I, you know, that's probably a place that we can, we do come together.
• 44:25
  Margret: We're not facilitators, we're just sisters, we're just sisters coming in to hang out.
• 44:29
  Margret: And as you would know, if you were doing that too, you know, you can talk about the whole world and end up on, on different, um, in different realms.
• 44:38
  Margret: So, uh, we had that privilege to connect and, and have some beautiful, deep, uh, conversations of all sorts, including family constellations, um, just in October this year.
• 44:52
  Margret: So, uh, yes, I have hope, always have had hope because I've been anchoring, I've, I've planted a lot of seeds in home.
• 45:00
  Margret: I did that straight out after I did my, uh, training.
• 45:04
  Margret: And, um, as I said, you know, there's always a timing when things come to seed.
• 45:10
  Margret: And, um, that's one thing I've, I had just not so much whether I wanted to do it or not, I needed to do it.
• 45:16
  Margret: And in some areas, just a little bit before, before everybody's time and not.
• 45:23
  Margret: That was also came to, you know, being freshly new as, as, as a, you know, with my training.
• 45:29
  Margret: And then going, oh, you know, I had so much passion and I go, oh my gosh, you know, you can do this and that.
• 45:34
  Margret: And then I got a good, good kick up the bum to go, yeah, that's what you think.
• 45:39
  Margret: Yes, we can do that.
• 45:41
  Margret: And then some of the stuff that I was doing, I'm going, really?
• 45:45
  Margret: I'm going, really?
• 45:47
  Margret: Arguing with my tūpuna, arguing with my guides, kicking into the field.
• 45:52
  Margret: I'm going, really?
• 45:54
  Margret: Okay, no worries.
• 45:56
  Margret: So, um, yeah.
• 45:59
  Tracy: You're stepping out of that line of... What you were taught into what's there to be seen, right?
• 46:07
  Margret: And for me, even throughout my training, I always did things my own way.
• 46:12
  Margret: Because I was a woman of culture and I'm very proud of that.
• 46:16
  Margret: And I know my roots and I know my ways.
• 46:19
  Margret: Why it's no best that, you know, if somebody starts emanating their own ways or their own thoughts.
• 46:27
  Margret: You know, that doesn't serve, so it's keeping those conversations alive to being very honest and truthful to those that do attend.
• 46:37
  Margret: To me, that is, that is the way of sharing, uh, sharing some of this world and to, um, ensure that that is done.
• 46:48
  Margret: Te tika te pono.
• 46:50
  Margret: So, you know, truth with integrity.
• 46:54
  Margret: So, because I know that if I don't, I know my consequences of what I get from my ancestors.
• 47:00
  Margret: So, um, I'm not sure how you round with your ancestors, but I know how I round with mine.
• 47:05
  Margret: And, you know, when I get to come home, I don't need to be home.
• 47:07
  Margret: But when I do come home, I can tell you, Tracy, it is such a different, it is beautiful.
• 47:14
  Margret: And this is such a different resonance.
• 47:17
  Margret: So the pathways that I've been guided to see that I've never, ever taken for granted.
• 47:23
  Margret: And yeah, you need a big kupinga to, to, you know, to hold and ensure that this is what's meant to unfold and not just, you know, not just home in Aotearoa, here, everywhere.
• 47:38
  Margret: So I believe the future is, um, for, for how I facilitate, for where I offer, for where I work with our, you know, with our collective, I'm really excited.
• 47:49
  Margret: I'm really, really, really excited.
• 47:51
  Margret: You know, it may not be going at.
• 47:53
  Margret: The speed of the wheel, thank goodness, um, that it's very, very solid.
• 48:00
  Tracy: Going at the right speed, I think, it's going, hey, what the,
• 48:03
  Margret: what the wheel is ready
• 48:04
  Tracy: for, maybe.
• 48:06
  Margret: Yeah, as we know that the soul realms at a different cycle, at a different pace, yeah.
• 48:13
  Tracy: So thank you so much for giving me this time this morning and for sharing, um, sharing so much wisdom and And blessings for all the listeners that are going to be hearing this amazing conversation.
• 48:25
  Tracy: Thank you Margaret.
• 48:26
  Margret: Yeah, thank you for the invitation.
• 48:29
  Tracy: Thank you for listening and remember to head over to tracycartwright .co .nz and sign up for the free intention meditation for 2025.
• 48:37
  Tracy: Remember to have fun and be kind to yourself.
• 48:41
  Tracy: Ka kite.
• 48:42
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 48:47
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracy.cartwright, that's tracy with no e .cartwright, and or head over to my website tracycartwright .co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 49:03
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.