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Solana Disinflation Nears!🔥Helius CEO Mert INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Let's get into Salona today and take a little bit
0:02
Speaker 1: of a deep dive. I think you guys will like this,
0:04
Speaker 1: so let's just get started. I want to thank our
0:06
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0:42
Speaker 1: want to first all, of course, bring in Merk coming
0:45
Speaker 1: in from Helius. You guys know him out there in
0:48
Speaker 1: the Salona community. So hey, Mart, how are you?
0:50
Speaker 2: I'm good? Thanks for having me.
0:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent, excellent. A couple of things I want to
0:54
Speaker 1: learn first is a little bit about Helius. I think
0:57
Speaker 1: a lot of our audience audience knows kind of where
1:00
Speaker 1: you stand in terms of the Salona community, but kind
1:02
Speaker 1: of give us an update.
1:03
Speaker 2: Sure, so we started Helius.
1:04
Speaker 3: I used to be at Coinbase in twenty twenty one,
1:08
Speaker 3: slightly before they went public, and at that time, Solana
1:12
Speaker 3: was quite unpopular with pretty much everybody. I used to
1:15
Speaker 3: champion it within Coinbase, and one day I broke through
1:19
Speaker 3: and went to integrate some Salona stuff onto Coinbase. And
1:23
Speaker 3: then when I did that, I realized that actually, this
1:25
Speaker 3: is too hard to work with. There's too many wide
1:30
Speaker 3: gaps in terms of developer experience, in terms of performance,
1:33
Speaker 3: in terms of data. And rather than doing it and
1:37
Speaker 3: Hou's a Coinbase, I recruited my two university roommates and
1:42
Speaker 3: we started Helius. And what Helius does today, you can
1:46
Speaker 3: think of us as the developer platform for letting you
1:50
Speaker 3: build anything you want on Solana, fast, cheap and scalable. Right, So,
1:56
Speaker 3: whether that is reading historical data for taxes, whether that
2:00
Speaker 3: is sending transactions for traders, or getting access to low
2:03
Speaker 3: latency data feeds for high frequency traders, payment systems. Anything
2:07
Speaker 3: you need to build on Solana, you work with us.
2:10
Speaker 1: All right, Let's jump over to the current news, which
2:14
Speaker 1: is really all about the double disinflation. This, of course,
2:17
Speaker 1: the threshold has been met what comes next after this?
2:21
Speaker 1: And when do you think this is going to happen
2:23
Speaker 1: in terms of the next transition.
2:25
Speaker 2: Right, So this has a bit of history behind it.
2:28
Speaker 3: We first tried a more complex disinflation proposal about a
2:34
Speaker 3: year ago at this point, maybe even longer. Basically, it
2:37
Speaker 3: almost passed. It was very close, but it divided the
2:41
Speaker 3: community and fair enough, I don't think gave investors proper
2:48
Speaker 3: time to necessarily adjust for the risks and really understand
2:52
Speaker 3: the mechanisms behind it, And so it was very close
2:54
Speaker 3: to passing, but it didn't pass. This is following along
2:58
Speaker 3: the same footsteps. It's a much simpler mechanism. Basically, what
3:02
Speaker 3: it does is Solana already has a token issuance curve,
3:06
Speaker 3: and that token issue curve is deflationary obviously, right, So
3:11
Speaker 3: the amount of coins being issued reduces over time in
3:16
Speaker 3: line with a predetermined curve. And what this proposal does
3:20
Speaker 3: is it speeds up that curve by two x. Right,
3:24
Speaker 3: So to get to the terminal inflation rate of Solana,
3:27
Speaker 3: now we'll take half the time, right. And so there's
3:32
Speaker 3: another point here worth noting, which is that, right, this
3:37
Speaker 3: is actually the first proposal to go through Solana's new
3:39
Speaker 3: governance system. So there's now a new governance system, and
3:42
Speaker 3: there are now different aspects to it. So number one
3:46
Speaker 3: is what you just saw, which is do people care
3:49
Speaker 3: enough about this proposal to get it to a community
3:53
Speaker 3: validator wide network wide vote, right, And so to get
3:57
Speaker 3: fifteen percent support means yes, there's enough interest. And so
4:01
Speaker 3: now what happens is it enters the discussion phase where
4:05
Speaker 3: people perhaps they have objections or perhaps there's things that
4:09
Speaker 3: weren't considered, They discuss ideas, and then in a few
4:15
Speaker 3: more weeks we will have a vote that's network wide.
4:20
Speaker 2: Stakers themselves importantly will be able to vote.
4:23
Speaker 3: So previously how this worked is you stake your soul
4:27
Speaker 3: with a validator and then pretty much whatever the validator
4:31
Speaker 3: votes is what you vote for. You don't necessarily have
4:33
Speaker 3: a chance to overwrite that, at least automatically. And so
4:37
Speaker 3: now though, no matter who you've staked your soul with,
4:41
Speaker 3: the valiadors will still vote. But if you're a holder
4:44
Speaker 3: of soul, you can vote against or abstain, or.
4:47
Speaker 2: You can vote for the proposal directly as well.
4:50
Speaker 1: All right, So with this in disinflation kind of moving in,
4:54
Speaker 1: do you feel like this is going to be enough,
4:56
Speaker 1: because you know, if you look at just the history,
4:58
Speaker 1: we'll look at market cap kind of even on just
5:03
Speaker 1: market cap on Salona in general, what are your thoughts?
5:06
Speaker 1: Do you think this is going to be enough disinflation?
5:08
Speaker 3: It depends what we mean by enough right and enough
5:12
Speaker 3: for what purpose? If we're talking about how do we
5:15
Speaker 3: make the price go up or how do we make
5:19
Speaker 3: the I think the price go up is necessarily composed
5:23
Speaker 3: of many parts, including macro competition, general risk, appetite, interest rates,
5:29
Speaker 3: all these different things.
5:31
Speaker 2: But as far as will Soul be taken more.
5:34
Speaker 3: Seriously by investors after this passes rather than before, then,
5:38
Speaker 3: I think the answer to that is yes, it's not
5:41
Speaker 3: a silver bullet in that it doesn't fix the asset
5:45
Speaker 3: to be perfect. However, it shows that the network has
5:50
Speaker 3: wide enough consensus that they're serious about improving the manitary
5:53
Speaker 3: properties right, and so once this passes, there's also another
5:58
Speaker 3: proposal around burning fees based on resource consumption. So that
6:05
Speaker 3: one is a bit more complex, but fundamentally you can
6:09
Speaker 3: think of it as the more resources compute resources use
6:12
Speaker 3: on the network, the more Soul gets burned directly as
6:17
Speaker 3: a result of this, And so those two aren't necessarily
6:20
Speaker 3: enough to make price go up, because again that's just
6:22
Speaker 3: one variable of many, But I think they are enough
6:25
Speaker 3: to show people that Solana is serious and the network
6:29
Speaker 3: is serious about improving the asset properties to be more
6:34
Speaker 3: friendly towards investors.
6:36
Speaker 1: Right well, and I think to your point, when you
6:38
Speaker 1: look at institutional investors right now, this would be a
6:41
Speaker 1: good example. Right here, Fidelity is filing dads taking a
6:44
Speaker 1: quarterly cash distribution. So this gets to the point you're
6:47
Speaker 1: getting at is that eventually this is going to be
6:50
Speaker 1: competing with ethan bitcoin. I think out there, how will
6:53
Speaker 1: the inflation kind of compare to both eth and bitcoin?
6:57
Speaker 1: Do you think in the future.
6:58
Speaker 3: Well, bitcoin is unique in that as a fixed supply
7:01
Speaker 3: of twenty one million that's hardcap. Same with z cash,
7:05
Speaker 3: and so those assets I tend to view differently. Well,
7:08
Speaker 3: they're certainly not productive assets in that you don't necessarily
7:13
Speaker 3: use them and you don't earn let's say, revenue from
7:15
Speaker 3: trading activity on chain, right, and so they're more belief
7:19
Speaker 3: store of value.
7:19
Speaker 2: Type assets store of value right.
7:23
Speaker 3: For I think Salana and Ethereum are the much more
7:26
Speaker 3: similar comparison.
7:28
Speaker 2: I'm not super caught up to date.
7:29
Speaker 3: I believe there's also a proposal on Ethereum that is
7:33
Speaker 3: actually quite similar to what we had proposed in the
7:36
Speaker 3: vote that actually failed last year.
7:39
Speaker 2: We'll see if that passes. If that doesn't, then there's
7:42
Speaker 2: a few factors.
7:43
Speaker 3: Of course, One is that Ethereum has been around for longer,
7:45
Speaker 3: and so they'll hit a lower inflation rate or and.
7:49
Speaker 2: They already have sooner.
7:52
Speaker 3: Because the point of issuance in a network isn't just
7:55
Speaker 3: for its own sake, right, it's to incentivize network security,
7:59
Speaker 3: bootstrap validators and rewards and more activity on chain. And
8:03
Speaker 3: since Solana is quite a bit younger than Ethereum, that's
8:06
Speaker 3: why it has a higher inflate issuance earlier on. However,
8:12
Speaker 3: there is also something to be said about the productivity
8:16
Speaker 3: of the asset on chain, right. So, for example, one
8:19
Speaker 3: way to protect yourself from issuance completely is to just
8:23
Speaker 3: stake your soul.
8:24
Speaker 2: Right.
8:25
Speaker 3: Fundamentally, issuance is attacks that is paid by unstaked users
8:31
Speaker 3: to stake users. Right, if you assume that everybody stakes
8:34
Speaker 3: their soul, then fundamentally nobody gets diluted. But obviously not
8:39
Speaker 3: everybody stakes their soul, and so there is something to
8:42
Speaker 3: be said about having a sweet spot of issuance such
8:46
Speaker 3: that the yield is interesting enough for institutions who generally,
8:51
Speaker 3: in my experience, especially the ETF types and the staking
8:54
Speaker 3: ETF types and the treasury companies, tend to actually like
8:58
Speaker 3: a small bit of issue to juice the yield. But
9:02
Speaker 3: the important thing about SOUL is that that's only one
9:06
Speaker 3: of three Block three reward systems. Right when you stake
9:09
Speaker 3: your soul, not only are you protected from issuants, you
9:13
Speaker 3: also get real trading yield that those validators capture.
9:17
Speaker 2: Right.
9:18
Speaker 3: So, for example, if a Citadel and ken Griffin wants
9:20
Speaker 3: to do a lot of HFT strategies on chain, maybe
9:24
Speaker 3: they're making markets on foreign currencies, they obviously have to
9:28
Speaker 3: pay fees to the validators to the network to get
9:31
Speaker 3: their transactions prioritized. That could be in the form of
9:34
Speaker 3: transaction fees, or it could be in the form of
9:37
Speaker 3: MeV fees in Solon's cases, actually both depending on the
9:40
Speaker 3: use case. And the validators capture those fees and they
9:44
Speaker 3: also some of them hearius for example, we charge zero commission.
9:48
Speaker 3: We pass those fees back to the staker, and so
9:50
Speaker 3: not only are you getting protected from issuans, you're getting
9:53
Speaker 3: additional real productive yield from actual on chain revenue that
9:58
Speaker 3: can only happen on a chain where it can support
10:02
Speaker 3: mass activity at scale hundreds of thousands of transactions that
10:06
Speaker 3: add up those fees to actually sum up to large amounts.
10:10
Speaker 3: Versus where you have something like ethereum and the base
10:14
Speaker 3: network can only support twelve to twenty tps, those fees
10:18
Speaker 3: are never going to add up to be meaningful enough
10:21
Speaker 3: for the stakers and the holders of the token itself, right,
10:26
Speaker 3: because if they do, then what that means is people
10:28
Speaker 3: are being obscene amounts on fees, right, which we saw
10:32
Speaker 3: years ago when NFTs were on main net ether and
10:35
Speaker 3: people were paying up to four hundred dollars per transaction,
10:39
Speaker 3: which is not going to work for the future of finance.
10:42
Speaker 1: The interesting point you just raised is that Slana has
10:45
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a trifecta here in terms
10:47
Speaker 1: of multiple ways to really benefit groups like that, so
10:51
Speaker 1: that in itself, I think will be an advantage. Do
10:54
Speaker 1: you think though, that this is going to be one
10:57
Speaker 1: of those things that maybe an institution would come in,
11:00
Speaker 1: I mean, because we're already seeing quite a few of
11:02
Speaker 1: them that are going down the route of ethereum. Will
11:05
Speaker 1: we see more of that, maybe where Solana really swings
11:08
Speaker 1: into the institutional array. What do you think for sure?
11:11
Speaker 3: I think institutional interest doesn't much have much.
11:16
Speaker 2: To do with the issuance of the coin today.
11:19
Speaker 3: I think it's much more about nobody got fired for
11:22
Speaker 3: buying IBM. It's an established network that's been around much
11:26
Speaker 3: longer and has lower.
11:28
Speaker 2: Perceived risk so to speak.
11:31
Speaker 3: Right, But the activity on chain isn't necessarily there. It's
11:34
Speaker 3: more so parking funds, and perhaps some people value higher
11:41
Speaker 3: security for example, which I would disagree with, but I
11:44
Speaker 3: do admit that it's a good sell given that, again,
11:48
Speaker 3: with especially serious money, one of the main things you
11:53
Speaker 3: look at is the historical precedents. Right, if this thing
11:55
Speaker 3: has been around for twelve years, then it's going to
11:58
Speaker 3: be around for another twelve years, right, the Lindia effect.
12:00
Speaker 3: And so Solana still it certainly ran into a lot
12:03
Speaker 3: of issues earlier on to take those bets, risky bets
12:08
Speaker 3: to scale the network. I think those are not paying off.
12:12
Speaker 3: But obviously all revenue across crypto has sort of went
12:16
Speaker 3: down in sideways for a while, given let's say capital
12:20
Speaker 3: rotation to AI and other fields. But I see for example,
12:25
Speaker 3: if you're an investor with at least a three to
12:26
Speaker 3: five year time horizon, I see no chance of Solana
12:31
Speaker 3: not being a top two coin along with Ethereum. And
12:33
Speaker 3: if you look at if you look at the institutional
12:36
Speaker 3: adoption shape, most of these teams that launch on Ethereum
12:41
Speaker 3: also launch on Solana, right It's relatively rare, I think,
12:44
Speaker 3: with the exception of black Rock, which I believe was
12:48
Speaker 3: also considering this, and I'm not sure, but obviously institutions
12:50
Speaker 3: move much slower. Most of these institutions, the bit wisest
12:53
Speaker 3: of the world, for example, always have It's usually always
12:57
Speaker 3: a one two punch in Ethereum in Salona and then
12:59
Speaker 3: perhaps another network, but it's very rarely just Etheroryum going
13:03
Speaker 3: at least recently speaking.
13:05
Speaker 2: I think that was more of a thing in the past.
13:07
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the speed upgrade that's going on right now.
13:09
Speaker 1: First slot time reduction now is live on testat So
13:13
Speaker 1: what difference is this going to make? And you know,
13:16
Speaker 1: do you think it's going to compare to other competitors
13:18
Speaker 1: out there.
13:19
Speaker 3: This goes along with my earlier point about supporting mass
13:23
Speaker 3: activity on chain, which then leads to more fees and aggregates,
13:28
Speaker 3: which then leads to better outcomes for investors and a
13:30
Speaker 3: more sustainable economy.
13:32
Speaker 2: Right.
13:32
Speaker 3: And so the more resources you can come up with,
13:37
Speaker 3: more supply you can come up with to satiate the
13:40
Speaker 3: demands of because who's really running finance, Well, fundamentally it's
13:46
Speaker 3: people think it's retail, and obviously that's a big part
13:49
Speaker 3: of it. But high frequency traders need to make a
13:51
Speaker 3: lot of low risk trades that add.
13:53
Speaker 2: Up to high rewards over time. Right. That'll already have
13:57
Speaker 2: some traditional markets, but in crypto it's a much more
13:59
Speaker 2: cumbersome process us.
14:00
Speaker 3: And so with this update, it's at first reducing to
14:03
Speaker 3: three fifty, but the terminal rate will be two hundred
14:06
Speaker 3: millis seconds.
14:07
Speaker 2: And that's also at the same time when we just
14:09
Speaker 2: doubled block space.
14:10
Speaker 3: So Solana's block space used to be forty eight million
14:13
Speaker 3: compute units.
14:14
Speaker 2: We say now it's one hundred million compute units.
14:16
Speaker 3: And so what's happening is block space is doubling while
14:21
Speaker 3: block time is having which is actually a fod X
14:24
Speaker 3: scale improvement, right, And so that is to say it
14:27
Speaker 3: can now support more trading, more activity, more fees, more transactions,
14:32
Speaker 3: and everything else.
14:33
Speaker 2: Right, It wasn't long ago.
14:36
Speaker 3: Really two to three years ago, where people thought of
14:38
Speaker 3: blockchains as sort of inefficient, slow databases and that they
14:42
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to be used for actual finance scale.
14:46
Speaker 3: And Solanas fundamentally proved that wrong. And the important part
14:50
Speaker 3: here is it's proved that wrong while remaining a blockchain,
14:53
Speaker 3: which is to say, there's a very easy tendency in
14:57
Speaker 3: the industry to offload the scaling, so to speak, to
15:00
Speaker 3: a single server called an L two which is managed
15:03
Speaker 3: by a few keyholders of a multi signature, and that
15:06
Speaker 3: has tremendous trust assumptions. Right, I do not feel comfortable
15:10
Speaker 3: putting my funds, let's say eight figures onto a server
15:14
Speaker 3: that can be.
15:15
Speaker 2: Rolled back with a dow which has happened in the past.
15:18
Speaker 2: By the way, in.
15:19
Speaker 3: Terms of scaling an actual blockchain the sustainable way while
15:24
Speaker 3: also supporting the economy and most importantly businesses that are
15:29
Speaker 3: coming on top of it with the experience they require.
15:32
Speaker 3: Is I think what this proposal fundamentally leads to.
15:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, a gave four point two is here now,
15:39
Speaker 1: so and it kind of breaks down exactly what you
15:41
Speaker 1: just said. Notice it said three point three times bigger,
15:44
Speaker 1: so larger transition and transactions and still quite a bit cheaper.
15:49
Speaker 1: So all of this is going to benefit I think
15:51
Speaker 1: in general to what the community is going to be
15:53
Speaker 1: talking about, and that is better use case. Let's talk
15:56
Speaker 1: about this because this is kind of one of those
15:58
Speaker 1: things that it feels like we're getting closed. So we
16:01
Speaker 1: almost hit eighty six percent of a way there to
16:05
Speaker 1: a halt. I mean, should we be worried at all
16:08
Speaker 1: on this with everything that's going on right now, especially
16:12
Speaker 1: in the market in general.
16:14
Speaker 2: No, I would say there's no needs to be worried.
16:18
Speaker 3: I am probably about as close as you can get
16:21
Speaker 3: to this other than being the actual CEO of Wanza.
16:24
Speaker 3: And first of all, there's a lot of failovers for
16:27
Speaker 3: these so this chart isn't necessarily telling the actual story,
16:31
Speaker 3: so it's easy to take out of contexts right.
16:33
Speaker 2: Generally, when something goes delinquent, you'll have a.
16:35
Speaker 3: Fallover to another network provider, let's say, which will then
16:40
Speaker 3: rescue that. And this is also behind the scenes. Of course,
16:45
Speaker 3: not many people see this. This has been a focus
16:48
Speaker 3: point for the entire network of val leaders in Slaana
16:52
Speaker 3: Foundation as well to diversify where the nodes are stored,
16:56
Speaker 3: what networks they run on right, So this is actually
17:00
Speaker 3: this is a very interesting issue because it's the fundamental
17:02
Speaker 3: backbone of high connectivity internet routes right, which is generally speaking,
17:10
Speaker 3: those are very reliable. But in this case there was
17:13
Speaker 3: an issue with one specific region which caused cascading failures
17:18
Speaker 3: through other regions. But there's a lot of already in
17:21
Speaker 3: progress or very close to finished mitigations that are already
17:24
Speaker 3: live for even better redundancy. I'm actually super glad this
17:27
Speaker 3: happened because what this will do is completely speed up
17:31
Speaker 3: those efforts. Right, nothing actually happened negatively for the user,
17:36
Speaker 3: but going forward, what will happen is those failovers and
17:39
Speaker 3: the alternative network routes will now be hardened and battle
17:42
Speaker 3: tested such that the likelihood of this happening actually reduces
17:46
Speaker 3: in the future.
17:47
Speaker 1: Well, I mean thirty straight months it's been without any
17:49
Speaker 1: sort of outage, So I think this is a signal
17:52
Speaker 1: that will continue to see going forward. And you look
17:55
Speaker 1: at where we are right now in the market. The
17:57
Speaker 1: acceleration of projects et cetera, as well as transactions in general,
18:02
Speaker 1: I think are only going to increase. So a lot
18:04
Speaker 1: of being and if it is to the case, you're
18:06
Speaker 1: pointing at a top two token. This is going to
18:10
Speaker 1: get even more demanding over the next several months. So
18:14
Speaker 1: this is good timing to your point, I think it
18:16
Speaker 1: kind of hit it. What about the salon of privacy layer?
18:19
Speaker 1: First of all? When and how how much better do
18:21
Speaker 1: you think this will be than others that are being
18:24
Speaker 1: developed right now, especially if you look at what Ethereum's
18:26
Speaker 1: got on their roadmap, right.
18:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is something I'm quite focused on.
18:30
Speaker 3: Pretty much every single blockchain today or the ze cash
18:32
Speaker 3: is transparent one institutions literally.
18:35
Speaker 2: Cannot come on chain without privacy, right.
18:38
Speaker 3: Institutions have all sorts of compliance strigultory requirements as not
18:44
Speaker 3: all these are kinds of requirements where they do require privacy,
18:48
Speaker 3: whether it's for private loans, private lending, private trading, IMETV trading, right,
18:54
Speaker 3: control over that sort of stuff, and it just does
18:58
Speaker 3: not exist today. Ethereum doesn't roadmap around this. It's quite
19:02
Speaker 3: ideological in nature, and I think it's intended to be
19:06
Speaker 3: more of a bunker coin like doomsday scenario head right
19:11
Speaker 3: in some sense for the actual financial use cases where
19:16
Speaker 3: you because again one, there's two let's say two requirements
19:20
Speaker 3: for it, right, One is that it actually has to
19:21
Speaker 3: be usable.
19:22
Speaker 2: And then two is it has to be private.
19:24
Speaker 3: And so with Solona, what we're doing with Helioa's privacy
19:27
Speaker 3: layer is that we're building.
19:28
Speaker 2: It on chain.
19:29
Speaker 3: On Solona, we're not using a roll up, we're not
19:32
Speaker 3: using an unscalable blockchain, we're not using a store of value.
19:36
Speaker 3: We're using the most scalable blockchain, and then we're adding
19:38
Speaker 3: privacy on it. And so you will have the most
19:40
Speaker 3: scalable privacy controls in all of crypto. And because you
19:45
Speaker 3: can't just pick one, right, that's not a trade off
19:48
Speaker 3: that the institutions want to make. Perhaps they can make
19:51
Speaker 3: that for a very limited set of let's say, low
19:54
Speaker 3: velocity assets, but that's.
19:56
Speaker 2: Not super exciting. That's not going back to an even
19:59
Speaker 2: earlier point.
20:00
Speaker 3: Those assets generally have no revenue attached to them, exactly,
20:04
Speaker 3: and so this is intent to fix exactly that.
20:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree. I think this is going to
20:09
Speaker 1: be a key milestone going forward, especially around well not
20:14
Speaker 1: even from the institution side, but you think adoption curves
20:17
Speaker 1: that are going to happen over the next few years,
20:20
Speaker 1: this will be a pretty significant issue for sure. Hey,
20:23
Speaker 1: I want to jump over to the lightning round with you.
20:26
Speaker 1: And this is just a series of questions, quick answers,
20:29
Speaker 1: kind of running down and looking at Solana right now,
20:32
Speaker 1: all time high, potentially in twenty twenty seven next year,
20:37
Speaker 1: you think yes.
20:37
Speaker 2: No, I'm going to say no, given Trump is in.
20:46
Speaker 1: Office, all right on no for Trump, I'll go with yes,
20:50
Speaker 1: keep it spicy. How does Solana react to Clarity not passing?
20:56
Speaker 1: This is a not passing in September.
20:59
Speaker 2: That's an interesting question.
21:00
Speaker 3: I think fundamentally it would result to barely moves YEA,
21:05
Speaker 3: given that Solana, who's made compared to the other networks
21:08
Speaker 3: like a XRP or let's say a Cardana or something,
21:12
Speaker 3: it is I think very established in the trio of
21:17
Speaker 3: bitcoin e theoryman Solana and has a big policy arm
21:20
Speaker 3: and so generally speaking, I don't see what this would
21:23
Speaker 3: really do. It would actually have an effect on privacy,
21:26
Speaker 3: but we've already planned around that, so I don't.
21:29
Speaker 1: Think it really has an impact at all. If Solana
21:32
Speaker 1: and Ethereum add native privacy, which, as we just talked
21:35
Speaker 1: about privacy token hype will immediately rotate back to one
21:38
Speaker 1: of those two chains. What do you think?
21:42
Speaker 2: I probably not.
21:45
Speaker 3: I don't because well, because those are separate things like,
21:50
Speaker 3: for example, our protocol won't have a token even and
21:53
Speaker 3: so it'll be hard to speculate on that.
21:56
Speaker 2: For etherory I believe is the same. I just think
21:58
Speaker 2: fundamentally z cash and bitcoin occupy a very different niche
22:02
Speaker 2: in the mind of an investment.
22:04
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I don't know. I talked to a lot
22:06
Speaker 1: of investors that they are concerned about privacy, and you know,
22:10
Speaker 1: they I think would easily move to an ethereum or
22:13
Speaker 1: a Salona if they felt more comfortable about that, which
22:16
Speaker 1: is why they'll buy them a narrow or even as
22:18
Speaker 1: a cash. So I will say yes if they get
22:21
Speaker 1: if we get locked in privacy, I think it does
22:24
Speaker 1: change the thesis on the not so crypto native. But
22:28
Speaker 1: yet those who still want privacy at the same time,
22:32
Speaker 1: plot twist Ai bubble Pop will be bullish for Solana
22:36
Speaker 1: on chain activity.
22:37
Speaker 3: What do you think If the answer here is possible,
22:40
Speaker 3: then it's certainly possible.
22:41
Speaker 2: I would say even likely.
22:43
Speaker 3: I will say it would be likely because one is speculation,
22:47
Speaker 3: and if there's speculation to be made, then the house
22:50
Speaker 3: sort of rakes even if you put that side apart.
22:54
Speaker 2: If money is not going to AI. Where's it going?
22:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, that's where I would it just
22:59
Speaker 1: the rotate inside crypto. AI tokens are too sweaty nerd
23:03
Speaker 1: right now to ever take off again. Do you think
23:05
Speaker 1: that will be the case.
23:08
Speaker 3: The question is hard to answer for me because it's
23:12
Speaker 3: hard to I don't think any two token, well, many
23:15
Speaker 3: tokens that our failures are the same, but many tokens
23:18
Speaker 3: that succeed are quite different than each other. It's I
23:21
Speaker 3: would say, you know, the safe answer is the majority
23:23
Speaker 3: of them will fail, but I do think there.
23:25
Speaker 2: Could be room for a few that succeed.
23:27
Speaker 1: All right, I'll put you in the middle on that,
23:29
Speaker 1: which is kind of where I am. I think that
23:31
Speaker 1: AI tokens are still going to have some demand, especially
23:35
Speaker 1: on new use cases. Solana flips XRP this year twenty
23:39
Speaker 1: twenty six. What do you think?
23:42
Speaker 2: Let me check the market.
23:45
Speaker 1: Ket you going to the market. It's setting that. Where
23:48
Speaker 1: are we right now XRP holding a sixty three bill
23:50
Speaker 1: Salona at forty forty four bill?
23:52
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting and it is August.
23:56
Speaker 1: August twelfth.
23:58
Speaker 2: Mert says, I'm I'm going to manifest. I'm going to
24:02
Speaker 2: manifest at a will just because I have to.
24:05
Speaker 1: You have to. Okay, Well, I'm not in agreement with you.
24:09
Speaker 1: I don't think it will, but I like the fact
24:11
Speaker 1: that you like it. Yes, I'm going to say, no,
24:14
Speaker 1: that's a long climb. It's a big ladder, man, big ladder.
24:17
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to get up on, you know, platform heels.
24:20
Speaker 2: You can also just fall.
24:22
Speaker 1: It could, so it could, but unlikely. What is more
24:28
Speaker 1: likely to break Salona's thirty month out outage free record
24:33
Speaker 1: right now? X or or excuse me? AI finds an
24:37
Speaker 1: exploit or something stupid and random?
24:40
Speaker 2: Well, AI could find a stupid random bunk.
24:43
Speaker 1: Okay, well that's true.
24:46
Speaker 2: Almost certainly something stupid and random given the.
24:51
Speaker 1: Same Yeah, we were talking about this before show. Totally
24:54
Speaker 1: agree something stupid random which RBA super psychic growth matters more?
24:59
Speaker 1: Right now to Salon? Tokenized gold or tokenized Pokemon?
25:03
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting, ask a good question.
25:05
Speaker 3: So I think interestingly, I want to say token is
25:10
Speaker 3: Pokemon here, and the reason is because any field where
25:15
Speaker 3: there's a lack of competition, where you can dominate, yeah,
25:19
Speaker 3: tends to be much better than I've a lot of
25:22
Speaker 3: competition exactly.
25:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. All right, I'm a man here
25:27
Speaker 1: we go, Corporo base Hood, those kinds of change right
25:31
Speaker 1: now versus Solana distribution. Do you think the corporo chains
25:35
Speaker 1: win or do you think Solana wins the distribution model
25:37
Speaker 1: in the future?
25:38
Speaker 2: For sure, Solana, I don't think it's Folks.
25:41
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're confident on that, because I look
25:44
Speaker 1: at it. I would say that Bass has just they've
25:47
Speaker 1: made a lot of mistakes. Hood hasn't had a chance
25:50
Speaker 1: to make a lot of mistakes yet, so I'm still
25:52
Speaker 1: kind of curious how that one's going to do. Solana,
25:55
Speaker 1: I would say, has the adge on that. So if
25:57
Speaker 1: you if I had to split those I would probably
25:59
Speaker 1: lean more towards Salana just because of that. But listen,
26:02
Speaker 1: you know, Robinhood could change my whole thesis on this
26:06
Speaker 1: if they really get going, because I mean, just the
26:08
Speaker 1: user count alone is ridiculous. What about Phantom Perpse running
26:12
Speaker 1: on hyper Liquid Do you think that's embarrassing for Solona?
26:15
Speaker 2: Oh?
26:15
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, that is extremely embarrassing, and we've taken the
26:19
Speaker 3: necessary steps to prevent that from happening in the future. Right,
26:23
Speaker 3: we didn't have like what like what so Phoenix Phoenix Perpetuals,
26:27
Speaker 3: which is the flagship props protocol now and SLAN. It's
26:30
Speaker 3: not fully live yet, but that's that's what was started
26:32
Speaker 3: with a lot of effort from everybody to combat that.
26:35
Speaker 3: There's a lot of network upgrades to make sure that
26:38
Speaker 3: transaction ordering and sending were more deterministic, which is especially
26:43
Speaker 3: important when you're dealing with margin accounts. And so I
26:47
Speaker 3: don't think Salana wasn't a place to support perps like
26:49
Speaker 3: hyper Liquid two years ago, but it is today, So.
26:52
Speaker 1: You think it was just a timing issue.
26:54
Speaker 3: Timing is one of them. But also I don't think
26:56
Speaker 3: anybody really understood the value of PERP before iper Liquid.
27:01
Speaker 3: Pyper Liquid has done some great things to be clear,
27:04
Speaker 3: and so to the to their purpose were seen as
27:08
Speaker 3: things that you can get from like eight different protocols.
27:12
Speaker 2: It didn't seem to matter too much.
27:13
Speaker 3: And then hyper Liquid basically showed that actually, and I
27:17
Speaker 3: do think this is a lot of credit is due
27:20
Speaker 3: to their air drop and the way that they distribute
27:24
Speaker 3: equity back to the token so to speak unofficially, and
27:27
Speaker 3: I think that is now framed perps differently than they
27:30
Speaker 3: were before. And especially r W a purpse which came
27:33
Speaker 3: out slightly after that, I think have opened up a
27:36
Speaker 3: new use case for crypto fundamentally, right, Speculating on oil,
27:40
Speaker 3: for example, was very hard for somebody, you know, from
27:43
Speaker 3: an a samble Internet connection and so without getting like
27:47
Speaker 3: a private bank account, and so now anybody can do it,
27:51
Speaker 3: so I think anyway the question, the answer is yes,
27:54
Speaker 3: it was embarrassing going forward, it will not happen again.
27:57
Speaker 1: All right, there we go. This is an intriguing scenario
28:00
Speaker 1: that is playing out right now. The SEC clarity will
28:04
Speaker 1: be compromised by the DTCC and Citadel and the transfer
28:09
Speaker 1: agent lobbying basically against Solana. So if all of this
28:12
Speaker 1: gets through the SEC and we get a kind of
28:15
Speaker 1: a reframe of how this is done for tokenized securities,
28:19
Speaker 1: do you think that could happen?
28:21
Speaker 3: I don't think they would be able to specifically point
28:25
Speaker 3: out Solana here.
28:28
Speaker 2: I really don't think that's possible.
28:30
Speaker 3: I think it would have to be a blanket rule
28:32
Speaker 3: on token is securities in general. Yeah, right, which would
28:36
Speaker 3: hurt all of crypto.
28:37
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's going to happen.
28:40
Speaker 1: I was just saying with X stocks and ondo, wouldn't
28:42
Speaker 1: that be all that they need to kind of centralize
28:45
Speaker 1: it and really kind of corral Solana in general into
28:48
Speaker 1: the DTCC.
28:49
Speaker 3: Oh no, because well, one there's also a backpack which
28:53
Speaker 3: actually has more traction than those two, Okay, and there's
28:56
Speaker 3: always that's just opportunity, right, If those two are out
28:59
Speaker 3: of business, then the room for another. And also one
29:01
Speaker 3: other thing to consider here is Phoenix and JTX also
29:05
Speaker 3: have purpse for equities as well, right, so people will
29:09
Speaker 3: always find a way.
29:10
Speaker 2: I'm not super concerned about this, Okay.
29:13
Speaker 1: JTX just launched Phoenix getting ready to backpack mostly you know,
29:18
Speaker 1: it's approved in the EU right now under Mika, So
29:22
Speaker 1: that's a that's an interesting point. So you're going to
29:25
Speaker 1: go no on that one. I'm in the middle here.
29:28
Speaker 1: I don't know how this plays and I just look
29:30
Speaker 1: at it. You know, Citadel very powerful. DTCC is most
29:33
Speaker 1: most likely going to have a lot of leverage in
29:36
Speaker 1: on the SEC on this rule making, and that could
29:39
Speaker 1: get bad. I mean, people may be you know, yelling
29:42
Speaker 1: out on crypto Twitter for this, which I don't think
29:46
Speaker 1: they completely understand what kind of damage this could do.
29:49
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big deal. Constant Korea and US exchange
29:53
Speaker 1: halts are bullish for Solana.
29:56
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they just they're a clear adurate cryptoism.
30:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Salana could or should create a wallet
30:05
Speaker 1: for old people called called silver Fox to take over
30:11
Speaker 1: the elderty cash economy. What do you what do you think?
30:14
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of people out there at
30:16
Speaker 1: fifty five plus that are in crypto and these people
30:19
Speaker 1: are now getting to the point where they don't trust banks.
30:22
Speaker 1: So what do you think we need a whole new
30:24
Speaker 1: cash economy transfer into this thing?
30:26
Speaker 3: You know, this is actually quite a fascinating question because
30:29
Speaker 3: let's say I am working on this, and so.
30:32
Speaker 1: I'll okay, I agree, I like this, this is interesting. Okay,
30:37
Speaker 1: we're on the same Well, well if you if you
30:39
Speaker 1: are working on it. Silver Fox is a great name.
30:41
Speaker 2: That's actually an interesting name. Yeah, we name something different,
30:43
Speaker 2: but that's not a bad name.
30:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, this year's Salona breakpoint will be an institutional snooze fest.
30:49
Speaker 1: I hope not. But what do you think you got
30:51
Speaker 1: any inside track on this?
30:53
Speaker 2: Hmmm? That is a good I mean fundamentally could be.
30:59
Speaker 3: It just depends who you hang around with that breakpoint
31:01
Speaker 3: because there's usually multiple stages. I do think the last
31:05
Speaker 3: Salonic accelerate, which was in Miami. Was a bit too
31:07
Speaker 3: institutionals for my taste.
31:09
Speaker 1: I was there even tho I would agree, I would agree, yes, yeah.
31:13
Speaker 2: So my guess is they've probably learned from that. Oh okay,
31:17
Speaker 2: all right, I would say they have learned from that.
31:19
Speaker 1: Okay, so unlikely let's go with that. I'm on the
31:22
Speaker 1: fence there, because that institutional money is just too juicy.
31:25
Speaker 1: It's too juicy. What's more cooked here? Stretch or bitcoin wallets?
31:31
Speaker 1: What do you think?
31:34
Speaker 2: I mean?
31:36
Speaker 3: If this is referring a cold card, I would say, I.
31:43
Speaker 2: Mean, certainly Stretch is more cooked. That's just it's hard
31:49
Speaker 2: for me to.
31:52
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to come on.
31:55
Speaker 3: I'm for sure Stretch, I mean bitcoin wi also will
31:57
Speaker 3: be fine. I think there's a few alternatives that are good.
32:00
Speaker 1: Kind of in agreement with you there, This is not
32:02
Speaker 1: looking good anyway. Hey, listen, this has been fun today.
32:05
Speaker 1: Mart We're gonna be paying attention to what Helius is
32:08
Speaker 1: doing and what you're up to, So thanks for coming
32:10
Speaker 1: into the show.
32:10
Speaker 2: We appreciate it, of course, thank you for your time.
32:13
Speaker 2: It was fun.
32:20
Speaker 1: If you like this video, like and subscribe, drop a
32:22
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32:26
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