Latest / Pod Therapy / #346: Friend's Suicide, Therapist Fit, Finally Graduated College

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#346: Friend's Suicide, Therapist Fit, Finally Graduated College · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You don't learn from winning.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: The worst thing I could do is they win the
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: first time out.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: That's true. You're doing them a favorite by taking all
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: their life.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: This episode has made possible by our therap partners Dirty
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: B and Pickett pick from Fabulous Las Vegas, No Battle.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: This is pod therapy, Real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Get some of your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: net or email us at pod therapy Guys at gmail
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: dot com. And now broadcaster from the Churn. That's Jim,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that's Whitney.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It's time for some pot therapy speaking at Picket. Yes,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I had a nice conversation with Picket. Oh good for
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: your new you get to know a therap producer. Yeah,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: so that'll be airing. I think in the next week. No,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: two weeks, okay, okay, oh wow, you got you Q up.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Four weeks?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I think, oh wow, three or four weeks.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But anyway, Uh, he's he doesn't even
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: he hasn't heard Whitney yet.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: What because that's right, he's working through the back. Yeah.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: So he started at.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: One and he's going all the way so religiously he's
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: not getting ahead of it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Wow, and sponsoring what's happening currently. There's no idea what
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: he's been paying for this whole time.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: If he just came out, it's not even aware that
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: we shout him out on the show.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: No, he had no idea.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: That is crazy.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I think he submitted a question to the last show. Yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: so I think he listened to the last Whitney wasn't
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: on it. Oh wow, so he still hasn't heard that.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: So funny. No, so, but he's he was very excited
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: about sponsoring the show. Oh, that's as long as we
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: don't use any curse words. I said, you don't have anything.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've never Yeah.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well we'll know this for a little We'll keep
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: a sponsor for at least I think Jacob joined the
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: show on episode forty two, so he's done about one
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: hundred Jacob episodes.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we were light on the swearing before take them,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: and then it all went to hell. So all went
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: to heck, thank you, thank you know what. Yeah, let's
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: clean the show up. Been wanting to talk about that
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  Speaker 3: for a while.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: No, it's that time again. Yeah, conversation.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it since Jake said twat waffle
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  Speaker 3: and patriarch.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Since about then I thought, yeah, we can probably
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: dredge the river.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Here, all right, don't know Shina Flapjacks, patroon.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Flapjacks. From now on, I'll do it for you. Jim,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: that just might have to be the patriot concerned about it.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I'll clean it up. Flap Jacks is now the Patreon
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: title of the show. There we go.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Anyway, welcome to the show. Everybody excited to have you.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: We've got some great questions and a response letter today,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: which is always neat to get to follow up and
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: find out how things turned out.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Let's see what this response letter says. You guys sucks.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I should probably read these views. We'll get to the studio.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I'm prepared for that time there's a response. I'm just
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: prepared for it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Probably not that I assume, I'm I'm pleasantly surprised.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Yea, we always assume it's on its way. But we
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: got some big questions today and so we will dive in.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Uh first one, leading off the order here, my best
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: friend committed suicide. It's been a while since I wrote
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: in about calling nine to one one when my friends
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: told me she was going to take all of her
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: pills and commit suicide.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
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  Speaker 3: She went into a residential treatment facility after that, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: after returning home, then committed suicide in October of twenty
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: twenty three. She met me for dinner two days before
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  Speaker 3: and told me she was still having some mental health
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  Speaker 3: issues and was going to try to get into another program.
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  Speaker 3: There was no warning signs, as it seemed like she
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: genuinely wanted to continue treatment. She didn't tell me she
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  Speaker 3: was sidle at that time. I've been wanting to write in,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: but it's been too difficult to bring myself to do it.
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  Speaker 3: I found out that she was keeping a lot of
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  Speaker 3: information from me and her family, For example, visiting a
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  Speaker 3: mystery friend in another state after leaving treatment and before
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: returning home. I found this out from her family when
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: they asked if I knew who she visited. I have
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  Speaker 3: so many unanswered questions. I know I'll never get those answers,
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  Speaker 3: but I can't stop thinking about them.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes. Today would have.
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  Speaker 3: Been her thirty first birthday, so these questions are gnawing
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  Speaker 3: at me again. It still hurts to know that she
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: was keeping things from me. Do you have any suggestions
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  Speaker 3: for coping strategies that can help me accept that I'll
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: never get these answers and help me to stop thinking
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  Speaker 3: about those questions. Thanks for everything y'all do. This podcast
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: has helped me so much. Anonymous pronouns are she and her.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Ah, buddy, I'm sorry, it's rough. Yeah, it's really sad.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And you know it's always tough too, because when people
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: are going in and out of treatment programs, I mean,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: in theory good right, like we're doing the right thing,
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: and that's usually a sign that we would consider them
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: to have stronger resiliency. We would I mean, if we
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: were scoring them as a therapist. You're adding that to
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: the pros column. You're saying, hey, this is evidence for
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: help seeking, this is evidence for resiliency. They're not giving up,
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  Speaker 3: even though they're still having you know, kind of progression
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and relapse when they get out of programs. You know,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: we're we're usually seeing that as a good thing. And
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: so I'm in that sense, I guess writer, I want
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: to just respond and validate where you're saying. I did
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: not see this coming, and her family and I were stunned.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: She was in and out of treatment, she was going
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: to another one. But yeah, clearly the wheels fell off
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: in between episodes of care.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: That's always a mess. I'm curious.
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: I just had a thought, and I'm curious if you
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: guys think differently because of your professions, because I was
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: just thinking about it, and I was thinking about your
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: friends that have committed suicide over the years, and uh,
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: and then friends that were suicidal and then got treatment,
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  Speaker 4: And it always it always has to me, and still
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  Speaker 4: in many ways I think feels to me when that
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  Speaker 4: person goes in for treatment, I feel like, oh, we can,
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  Speaker 4: we can kind of.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Declare victory, right, like we have succeeded, right, Uh, and.
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  Speaker 4: This person is now getting the help that they need,
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  Speaker 4: and it's in some ways the end of a story
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  Speaker 4: for me in my own brain. Now, because you guys
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: are on the other side with the treatment, do you
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  Speaker 4: do you do you know what I mean?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Does that make.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Sense to you? Do you share in that? Do you
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  Speaker 1: not share in that because of your because of your jobs?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: The way I kind of look at it is almost
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  Speaker 2: it's it's not like you're not like, Okay, cool, we're done,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: but it's almost for the family, it's almost kind of
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: like respite. Yeah, and I almost kind of approach it
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: that way with family members. We I would always kind
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: of take a similar approach when it came to like
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: a client coming into residential treatment for substance use or
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: for co occurring mental health and substance use, where the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: family has been dealing with us. They're stressed, and it's
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: almost kind of like, you know, I'll talk to the
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  Speaker 2: family and be like, okay, you know this is tag team.
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  Speaker 2: You tag me, I got it. You can rest, you
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  Speaker 2: rest now, let me take it from here, and then
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  Speaker 2: I'll tag you back in in a minute. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: and it's kind of that kind of relationship. Okay, So
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  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily I mean, it's success in the sense
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  Speaker 2: that like, okay, cool, we got them someplace safe. Awesome,
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  Speaker 2: Now he can kind of rest for a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: They got professional help, knowing that you know, we're going
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  Speaker 2: to be back involved at some point.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that makes a lot of sense, Jacob.
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  Speaker 6: I actually hadn't really thought about it from that perspective
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  Speaker 6: before that. It's like, and now that you say it
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  Speaker 6: from a medical perspective, when somebody goes in, yeah, for
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: like medical treatment, the same it's like, all right, we
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: are being monitored by doctors, so like I can have
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: that wave of relief or kind of take a step back,
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: and yeah, you can give the illusion when we're talking
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  Speaker 6: about mental health, specifically suicide, that they're going to get better.
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  Speaker 6: Then you're like, all right, they're in they're in treatment.
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  Speaker 6: So it's almost like a natural progression in your mind
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  Speaker 6: that they'll get better and they'll they'll be out and
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  Speaker 6: things will just be quote I'm saying quote better, you know,
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  Speaker 6: like not.
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  Speaker 5: You don't have to worry about them, right, taking that
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  Speaker 5: same path.
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  Speaker 6: So then when the opposite happens and the person that
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  Speaker 6: much more jarring.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, because the expectation was totally afoable.
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  Speaker 1: Oh we we were winning. Yes, yeah, we were ahead,
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  Speaker 1: Like we were ahead of the game.
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  Speaker 5: So what happened? Who did they go visit?
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 6: You know it kind of yeah, the shock effect is
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  Speaker 6: almost more intense in that sense.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, I'm not so I think there
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: is an appropriate amount of interest in that question of
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: like who did they go see what was going on
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: by the family and by the writer, because I I
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: would not be surprised if that somehow was the variable,
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  Speaker 3: which is something that's very common when you do have
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  Speaker 3: a patient who is suicidal, very fragile in and out
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  Speaker 3: of episodes of care. Jacob's right, Like, from our perspective,
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  Speaker 3: there is the sense of we're winning, we're doing something
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  Speaker 3: in the right way. But usually we're also very much
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: about staying away from emotional variables. If they're like I'm
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: gonna call my ex boyfriend when I get out, girl,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: don't they don't.
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  Speaker 1: No, no, I think I'm feeling a lot better. No, Like,
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  Speaker 1: you know that you are feeling a lot better. Let's
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: keep you feeling better. But concrete's not dry.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: You know that, No, because I don't know ever what
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: bomb they're gonna lob at you or whatever. And so
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a lot of times when people start to feel better,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: there is this sense, and I guess you could compare
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: this to a lot of physical maladies where people start
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: to feel better and they're like I'm great, I'm good.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: You're like no, no, no, no, stay stay down dressed, finish the treatment,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: like I think I've got it from here, and like
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: that's not how this works.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Like they gave you six antibotic pills.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: There's supposed to like every day, take the whole cycle,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: finish the bottle, yeah, and don't do anything interesting, because
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: there's this angle of you do have a weakened psychic
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: immune system. And this is something that happens a lot
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: for us in addictions treatment as well, that when people
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: finally leave our program, their thirty days sober, and you
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: might think, man, this guy's never been sober that long.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: You did it. This is so great.
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  Speaker 3: They're graduating the program, there's hugs, handshakes and goodbyes, and
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  Speaker 3: a lot of them feel like I'm ready to get
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: back into real life and they have a lot of
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: things they want to get done because they've been suspending
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: their life to get mental health help. And so now
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: it's like I'm going to go interview for a job
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna go ask that girl out and I'm
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: going to go to the same and we're like, no,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: don't do anything like that right now. You can't handle it.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Your immune system is very, very weak. I don't want
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: you interviewing for a new job. I know you're excited
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: that you're sober, but if you get rejected, you don't
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: have coping skills yet. Like, we've got to get the
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: paint dry. Hearing that she went on a you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: kind of anonymous trip to connect with some buddy, might
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: have been somebody from the hospital that she made friends with,
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: might have been an internet friend that she's been meaning
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: to go see.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But I also nothing could have been nothing,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: could have been nothing. Yeah, there's like a butcher shop
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: over there that she really likes.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean here's the thing too, I would travel
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: for a good stake, Yeah, for the writer and the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: family members and friends, anybody in this situation. You're looking
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: for meaning, Yeah, and so sometimes you're going to be
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: finding it where there isn't any good point, you know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Like you know, if you're if you're looking for your
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: drive down the street and you're you're trying to find
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: a red car, you're going to start seeing red cars everywhere.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: So it's I don't know that. I think that's the
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: toughest part about this is that, Yeah, you have a
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: lot of unanswered questions, and you're going to have to
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: come to peace with the fact that you're never going
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: to have answers to those.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I think it's very natural to want to solve it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: There's this sense of what was it? What went wrong?
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: What did that? Last twenty four hours look like and
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: I get that energy, and I think next of kin
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: are going to investigate, you know, because they need to
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: know more just to have a full completed story if
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: they can. But as the friend in the situation, I
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: think you can rest with the conclusion my friend had
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: very severe mental illness. They were suicidal, they were chronically depressed,
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: they had all sorts of unique variables, and ultimately that
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: is the disease that ended her life. And sometimes you
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: can kind of have a sense of peace by knowing
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: that if your friend tells you that they have a
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: terminal illness, and obviously this doesn't have to be terminal,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: but it can be. And if you find that out
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: and then you discover that they passed the last twenty
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: four hours of the last week of their life, isn't
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: necessarily a mystery to be solved because you know what
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: fundamentally it was that caused it. And I think with
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: mental health stuff sometimes because the writer's asking, how can
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: I let go of this question? How can I somehow
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: not be preoccupied with this? And that might be one
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: of my suggestions is narrating to yourself. It isn't a
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: mystery how my friend died. It isn't a mystery what
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: led to my friend's death. The very last moments of
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: thinking are a mystery, but ultimately I know whatever they were,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: they were inside of the bubble of mental illness that
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: she suffered from generally, and I.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: Think also some peace we in our society, and especially
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: in American society, and I think in a lot of
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: places there there are so many games, there's so many
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: puzzles and all of these things. You gain some kind
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: of advantage when you solve that puzzle. If you solve
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: this puzzle, there's no prize at the end of good time.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: I was going to ask that to you, what do
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: you gain from.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: You get exactly what you already have with maybe a
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: little more knowledge if you get if you find out
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: you know, if you get a minute by minute.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Description of that A yeah, it doesn't change anything.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I would suggest, yo, deal with what matters.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: If there's something in this puzzle that truly matters to
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: people going forward, then maybe you have to deal with it.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: But if it's just curiosity, I would I would focus
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: on a really good point and focus on uh, you know,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: starting to starting the process of working through this.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: No, that point about the Prize. There's been a lot
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: of shows and books and stuff that have gone in
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: this This line of the suicide is a riddle, like
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: there was that very popular shows Why and The General's
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Daughter is a little bit more of a dated reference
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: John Travolta's in that one, but you know there, it's
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: a it's a common Yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, General's Daughter had a great soundtrack. Yeah, it was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: just a really good movie that solid.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you're being serous about the serious Okay, yeah,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it sounds like the soundtrack because I've used pieces from
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: that soundtrack and different things over the years.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good soundtrack.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: But yeah, there's this general trope that I think and
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: that that energy is very natural. It's why you can
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: write movies around it or TV shows, because there is
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: this sense of true crime. There is this sense of
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the mystery, what was it?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: What? Who did her wrong? Who broke her?
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: And it's kind of unfathomable for people who don't struggle
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: with it. It's hard for them to understand why.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they feel like there must be something that
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: rises to the level of this action, and that that
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: is I think a despairing from the reality of what
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: mental illness is because the truth is if somebody is
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: suffering with chronic and severe depression, with suicidal ideation and
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: attempts and is that resiliency is so low. That's why
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: therapists want them in a plastic bubble, because it could
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: just be the restaurants out of a one and it's like, well,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: my life has exactly They live inside of a delusion bubble, right,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: and so like we have to protect them from that.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: But Jacob's absolutely right, and I think that there is
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: this sense of like, somehow I'm honoring that person, like
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: in Thirteen Reasons Why a huge mega plot device was
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: solving her reason, would would validate her death, It would
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: make it better somehow. And besides the whole infuriating reality
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: of lionizing suicide as a reaction to life and then
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: targeting children as the audience for that, which every therapist
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: in the nation was fucking furious about, the other thing
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: that sucked about it was creating this concept of just
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: like I think again the lionizing of it or the
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: validating of it, but also that the way to respond
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: to it is to solve it. That somehow, if we can,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: if we can understand it, that that is the right response.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: And I don't like that response, I think for multiple reasons.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: One because plainly, as Jacob said, that actually doesn't do anything.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: You won't find a good answer. It's not gonna be
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: something validating, it will not on there's.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Not gonna be a reason where you're gonna go, oh,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: this makes sense. That give you peace.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: And and so the right response to a suicide in
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: your life I think. I mean, look, there's nothing wrong
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: with being curious, nothing wrong with want to know more.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's natural.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: But the right response the response I really want for
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: people so they can have conclusion and to do something
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: that does feel like they're honoring a sick person. I
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: would say, if you're feeling that motivation, give to Nami,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: give to Jason Project, give to a suicide prevention program.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Speak out loud to your friends and family, use your
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: little social media platforms to say, hey, had a friend
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: they passed. I just want to remind everybody how to
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: ask for help. Here's some phone numbers. Uh, here's how
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: you can call two one one you know and get more?
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Or is it nine eight eight?
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's yeah, nine eight or nine nine eight.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Try them all, keep trying one.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: We had internet access. You can figure this out right now.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: To one one might be the call before you dig.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Also very important, okay, also very important.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: One is.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: NINEO.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: That's yes, yeah, But that right that I I think
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: is a great way to respond that validates, or rather
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: responds in a positive way to a person's suicide. Another
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: thing I don't like about the message of that show
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: teaching people that that's how you respond to suicide is
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: it tempts the suicidal even more because they go, oh, see,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: if I die, I will be the subject of interest. Yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: then everybody has to solve it, and perhaps I'll leave clues.
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: And don't understand how permanent that is exactly, Which is why,
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: as a general rule, I don't want people to all
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: be very interested in the why.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Like I again, it's totally naturally don't do anything wrong.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: But when I can help it, I steer conversations away
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: from that because there are other vulnerable members of an
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: audience that are also sometimes going to struggle with suicidality,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and I want them to know that the way that
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: humans respond to that topic is not by taking the
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: next year of their life to figure out the mystery.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: It's by donating one hundred dollars to Nami, messaging everybody
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: that that's not the way to do it, get help
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: and wishing people had done it differently, and knowing that
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: makes it less glamorous.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, And if you're if you're truly interested in,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: if you really want to burn some calories on this,
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, there are organizations that you can volunteer for sure.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, you can organize chapters. There are a lot
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: of and there's a lot of work out there that
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: that does need to be done. So if you call
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: some of these local chapters in your area, I'm sure
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: that they will take financial donations as well as your
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: time and energy.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: You could join the next Namie Walk in honor of
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: your friend and ask people that knew her to join
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: with you and raise some money.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: The other thing I'm thinking here too, is that you know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: with like who was this mystery friend and all of
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: these other unanswered questions, just keep in mind that if
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: your friend wanted you to have that information, she would
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: have given it to you. Because I think one of
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the things I think Whitney touched on this like two
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: episodes ago, which was like when it comes to like
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: suicide and things like that and like, oh, we didn't
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: even see it coming. Well, yeah, you're not supposed to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: see it coming, right, That's that's your friend and intentionally
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: keeping you from that information, right, they need to keep
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: you in the dark. You know, that's how this disease
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: kind of survives. Yeah, so you know, just be mindful
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: of that. And you know, we're kind of going down
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: that self blame road and unanswered questions.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: I was actually going to say that with the people,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: you know, saying that I didn't see it coming. People
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: only say that because there is that part of you
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: that's like I want to make sure that everyone else
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: is aware that I didn't have fore knowledge of this, right,
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: because that would it would be horrible if you did. Sure,
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: That's that's a different that's a different layer.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Of blame and guilt there.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I mean, yeah, there is a little
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: bit of that as well, which is our own little
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: you know, our little crazy person in our brain going
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: like I.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Want you to know that I didn't know about this. Yeah, okay, great,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: it's normal here.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a kind of piggyback off what Nick was saying,
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: the part where the writer said it still hurts to
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: know she was keeping things from me that is hurtful.
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: But when we talk about even substance substance abuse abuse,
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: this has stuck with me when I've had people very
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: close to me go down that path and I'm like,
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: why are they hiding so much from me? Like it
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: is hurtful at the time, And with mental health it's
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: the same kind of like Jacob was sharing just now
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: as well, But they are doing that to protect you
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: because they love you, and that is a very hard
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: concept to grasp. But for me at least, it's helped
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: me be at peace with instead of feeling hurt, I'm
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: almost like, I see that you cared about me and
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: you were trying to protect our relationship or protect me
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: from yeah, feeling like I knew something or I could
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: have prevented it or whatever.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: So that definitely shows up. Another thing that I'll show
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: up too is sometimes the delusion of depression is like
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: a parasite that doesn't want you to tell anybody about it. Yeah,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: so it's like this deep dark voice, but you don't
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: want to tell anybody because you're scared that they will
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: challenge it and tell you that your beliefs are wrong.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: It's not as bad as you think, and they'll try
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: to help, and sometimes there's a compassion fatigue at the
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: recipient level where the person's like, I'm tired of being
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: told that I'm tired of being helped. I'm tired of
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: being pulled back from the ledge. There's just this exhaustion,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: and so sometimes they just don't tell anybody. Yeah, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: that will happen, right. We're sorry to hear this, you know,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I'm glad that we can still be part of your story,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: be your community. I'm glad that you're listening to this show,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: that you've written into this show. I hope that you're
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: a member of our Discord community. We are just a
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: bunch of folks that just relentlessly are pro mental health,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: loving on folks, lifting each other up. You know, when
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: this kind of stuff's going on and this kind of
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: story will show up, and then our Discord and every
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: episode gets a little discussion group going, and people start
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: telling stories and relating and reaffirming each other, and just
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: know that they'll be in there talking about you and
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: just supporting you. So you know, we're rooting for you,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: my friend. I'm sorry that this has happened, but you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I just want to encourage you. As time goes on,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: you will start to recover from this, the family will
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: start to cover from this, and hopefully, you know, this
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: incident also becomes educational for everybody in your life as well.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: And if you're out there and you're listening to this
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: episode and you relate, you're dealing with depression, you're scared,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: sometimes you're worried, you're thinking about hurting yourself, Please get
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: more information. Go to nine eight eight, talk to somebody
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: about it. Those folks will not hang up until you're
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: ready to. They're not going to come knock on your door.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: They don't ask any personal questions. They are just there
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: to talk you through it. And I've met several now
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: phone answerers for nine eight eighth. Yeah, several of them
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: therapists and training and that's a great way for them
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: to get their hours and just kind of continue to
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: get experience. Very gifted people with very warm hearts, just
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: trying to be there for folks. So if you're struggling
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: out there nine eight eight, or go into our episode description.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Every episode has a list of resources, some of them
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: more specific, so check that out. But writer, thank you
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: for this question, and good luck.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: They also have a website nine to eight eight Lifeline.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: So if you if you want more information about the
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: call before you, if you're thinking about making the call,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: you're nervous about making the call, check it out on
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: the website.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Great idea. Get some information about the company that you're
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: about to call into. I love it. Look through the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: window first.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we are going to take a quick break
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: and when we come back, we're talking about how to
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: find the right therapist for you. You're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Ucky for you. I'm ready to make joke. Staff walk Walker.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Judy Schneider, Leon,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Holm, Darren Cunningham,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Matt and Lisa Tangman. And if you would like to
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: sponsor the show and become a therapyter serton dot com
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: slash therapy. All right, here we go. What is the
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: oldest team sports in the Summer Olympics?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Oh? Wow, Greco Roman.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Sex, Yesang Bang the Orgy.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the oldest unoffvisualsport.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Agree, Ganghus bangus that's Latin gang I bang.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I I'll wait for answers.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I forgot about the question.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, question all this team sport in the Summer Olympics.
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: I guess, but I'm gonna wait, hold on.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: If it's on there, what's considered a team sports. Yeah,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be like soccer.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw in football, water polo, field hockey, basketball.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Wow, I'll take water polo. I'll take field hockey.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I was gonna go field hockey.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Field Hockey's pretty sold.
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: M I'm torn because I remember learning about a version
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: of basketball not necessarily like.
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: You know what it looks like?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: Yes, what I was thinking, I was like, is that
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: oh yeah, where they like.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Hit it with their elbow like throw a but it
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: was a human head or something.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: But originally I thought about saying soccer football, going to
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: go with soccer.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: It's water polo.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, all right, they always have
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: had water and then always had fields too. Yes, they
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: had fields and sticks too. I don't know.
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: I shocked by that. That would have been my last guess.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Water polo was introduced in the nineteen hundred Paris Olympics. Wow, okay,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: what is the year?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Also? Water polo still looks like the most difficult.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was dying.
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: No, dude, the rest he has to be Like, watched.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I watched America versus Spain, and I was just horrified.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Im like, I think half the game is not dying.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I think that's all you're really doing.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Like I also, far more than half the games they
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: are just hauling ass back and forth.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: I went out play a water polo game and at
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: the end of it, they were like, Jacob, why did
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: you ever touch the ball?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I would be confused if there had been a ball.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I made it out, didn't I don't.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I think the.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Moment and tries to pull me under my survival instincts
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: just kicking and I'm no longer playing. Yeah I will.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I will go on a rampage. Oh god, Uh what
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: year were the first Modern Olympics held closest without going over?
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Okay, well there was one in Paris.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: That's a usual number.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's going to guess post nineteen hundreds.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to go blind on this one and
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take nineteen hundred Paris.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: That was the first modern Olympics back, I think, so, okay,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I'll go for two.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, wait, no, there's there's' is that going for two? Yeah?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: It's close as fuck? Yeah?
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: Oh I thought there are options?
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Oh oh good, I guess I just listened to what
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Nick said. Yeah, okay, I don't have some knowledge that
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: you guys weren't given.
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: I'm like next talking all right, so I'm.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Taking nineteen here. I do understand not wanting to listen
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to Nick.
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: I was trying to think of a year. I was
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: going to guess how to the option.
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: I don't know, closest without going over nineteen oh five,
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: nineteen oh four.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Whatever do you want to go by? I do know
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: what are we saying? Is going over? What is the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: definition of going over?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Later?
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So getting too close to the president?
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: Close to two thousand?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so you can go under.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: He's umber I did that wrong.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: So Whitney's out. No, because if it's nineteen oh eight,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: which it couldn't, I didn't go over because we know
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: there was we know there was a nineteen hundred though, witness,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: there's no way Whitney can win. I don't know. Okay,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I know there's a parent I know.
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: I'm just saying I can't do the closest without going
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: over strategy.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: It never will.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: I was lost on that too.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah a little, I'll take eighteen seventy.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll go one.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're all over.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh eighteen ninety six.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Damn, there it is life code.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: The Pyros have been ignited. Taken one on.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: My guest, mother fucking Oh damn, I'll throw in bonus points.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me where it was at.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Athens? Grease?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: It was?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I knew that one six. I guess
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I'm the number. I knew that, I knew the second.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: With okay, last one two points? Motherfucker hits, just without
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: going over. How many sports were featured in the Tokyo
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty Summer Olympics.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Oh damn, I don't know how many were the one
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I just want.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many, Like flavors of swimming, like
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I assume each of those counts cast question.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, probably the one hundred meter one hundred meters like yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: all different hey, relays, those are all different sports.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Two hundred and eighty.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: They did the Olympics in twenty twenty.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: They did. No one was there?
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: Okay, that's right, like there, what did you say, Jim
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: two hundred and eighty.
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know one hundred and fifty? Okay, Am I
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: going the right way? When I guess?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're doing great, you're in the anything.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Oh I wanted to win with one sport? Yeah, I'll
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: go one seventy five.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: All right, all right, you're at one fifty.
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Uh, there's a lot of room.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: What I'm trying to picture right now, I'm trying to
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: picture the metal counts that they kept putting up your
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: the Olympic Yeah, yeah, uh.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: What did you say to eighty ooh ooh, I'll say
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: two hundred yeah, all right, okay, uh thirty three? Oh yeah,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: thirty three? So we all yeah? Yeah, Really I wonder if.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: This was that has to just be because twenty twenty yeah, oh.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there weren't that many sports.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Maybe it was like curling, it was like anything that
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: there was no how.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Many sports were in the Paris Olympics. Well, I'm already
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, yeah, you host the show?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah I don't all right, yeah, Jim over to you.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Oh that was the last one.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: I thought you were like there were three hundred and
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: twenty nine of the Paris Olympics.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, okay, So it had to have been the COVID thing. Yeah,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: so I would have won if we had.
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: Said, like, did they do it?
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, if the question had been different, Jim, you would
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: have you would have gotten.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I except I said the same thing when I took
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: my act. Yeah, so if the questions had been different,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I would have.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Been better if you had have written questions that matched
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: my answer. Yes, I would have waited a minute one.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Jacob's about to call Shenanigan's I'm about to change my answer,
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: I think, okay for my answer, but answer to how
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: many sports they were, because this says three hundred and
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: twenty nine medal events.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: But then, oh, I see what you mean.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Twenty eight core sports.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, so swimming is a sport, right, Okay, there's multiple
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: medal events because there were three hundred and.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Twenty nine events in thirty three sports.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Ship Okay, so three hundred and thirty nine college again.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the COVID thing wasn't what got nine. We were
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: thinking the wrong way, yea, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: We were basically how many gold medals were awarded. Yeah,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: we were thinking the way the average person was thinking.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: I agree, yeah, yeah, all right, point for everything.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: A boy on the.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: Point.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I am in agreement with that ref That is the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: right move.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: This trivia question, participation trophy, will.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I think trivia this week? It's the four of us
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: versus the listeners. That's right. If we ever go live
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: on you quit yelling at your phone.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: You didn't know either. You're not better than us.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Finding the right therapist? Hi, y'all reaching out because I've
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: been seeing a therapist for six months now. Actually yeah, yeah,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: socially h and I'm starting to wonder if therapy is
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: doing anything for me or if my therapist is potentially
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: about fit. I've seen other therapists several times in the
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: past for support with depression and anxiety symptoms. This time around,
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: I saw therapy for several reasons, but my primary concern
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: is that I struggle with authenticity, and this is something
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: that I would like to change. I have a history
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: of complex trauma and have difficulty being honest with others
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: about what I think and feel, especially when I'm in
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: a context where I'm expected to perform, or when I'm
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: aware that I'm in a context where others have power
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: over me, like work or school, and that presenting myself
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: in a certain way is consequential This tends to be
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: especially pronounced when I'm around groups of people. For example,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: when I'm expected to speaking groups. Much of the time
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I will dissociate and after the fact will be really
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: activated and unsure of what I said or my tone, etc.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Other times, I'm totally withdrawn or feel like I'm just
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: placating others. At its root, this stems from a distrust
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: of other people and a distrust of myself. I haven't
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: always been like this, but over the years I've become
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: more withdrawn, less confident, more disconnected from others, and feel
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: less like myself. The last six months in therapy have
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: generated some helpful insights, but overall, I'm still left with
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: the same sense of stuckness that I've had for years.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I feel like I have no shortage of insight as
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: to where my patterns come from and how illogical or
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: maladaptive they are. Although this understanding is helpful to some degree,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to have translated into any sort of
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: actual change in my life. My hang ups and issues
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: are all still there. The only difference is I'm able
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: to see them with crystal clarity. Therapy has felt like
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: running around in the same circle and it's difficult for
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: me to gauge if this is just the reality of
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: my situation, if it's because I'm doing something wrong, or
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: if maybe I'm just around the corner from the change
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: I'm seeking, or maybe it's just an issue with a
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: therapist fit. It's also difficult for me to gauge my
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: relationship with my therapist. I wouldn't say that I feel
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: especially connected to them, but I rarely feel connected to
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: people in general.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I also don't feel.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Like it's an obviously bad fit. We share a significant
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: amount of life experience, and for the most part, they're supportive, caring,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: and I feel like they understand. Sometimes, however, I get
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: vague impressions of impatience, criticality, or judgment from them. But
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: it's also hard for me to know what I'm actually
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: picking up on or what's just my own transference. On
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: one hand, I do trust them, but on the other hand,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: I feel myself holding back the same way I always do,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: even if I'm not entirely sure of what it is
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: I'm holding back. We've talked about this extensively, and like
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: the other patterns I've described above, insight and acknowledgment hasn't
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: really seemed to change anything. I feel myself going around
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: the same circles, aware that something is missing, not feeling
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: totally able to be myself even in therapy, and unsure
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: what to do to change, how to do it and
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: if change is even possible. All that being said, my
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: question is, how do you know if therapy is quote
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: unquote working. How do you know if the problem is you?
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: How do you know if the problem is the therapist?
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: How do you know if the problem is just the
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: fit between you? Is it time for me to move on?
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Or should I continue to hang in there? Any insight
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: would be much appreciated. Thank you, anonymous.
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: It's a really good question.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is really good.
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: At risk of exposing me as a bad therapist, go on,
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: I know that fun.
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: No I did once.
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: I was working with someone once who mentioned I love this.
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: I love when clients can be honest with me, by
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: the way, just to anyone listening. As much as it
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: is difficult to hear sometimes when clients will share things
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: with you, overall, I just really love it because it
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: means they trust you, and like, even if they're telling
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: you something you maybe wouldn't quote want to hear as
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: a therapist, but I had a client who very different
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: personality wise for me, whereas I don't know if you
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: experienced this gym, but a lot of times, majority of
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: my clients we almost tend to like.
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: Vibe, you know, and they're like, oh my god, you're
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: like I have some they're like you're the best.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: But I almost like, yeah, see myself in them in
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: some ways, you know, because you can relate and maybe
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: they feel like I can relate to them really well
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: or whatever. But every once in a while, you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: you have someone who's like really different than like I say,
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: quote your typical client that you might work with. So
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: this was one of those situations. I did feel like
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: I had a really good connection with this person, but
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: they were just you know, a little more unique from
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: other clients I work with.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: They're more logical, like all this stuff.
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: And they had said, they're like, I really, I sometimes
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: will leave therapy. I don't know if I feel better
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: like I do. You know, I show up every time whatever,
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: but I don't know how helpful it is. And then
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: they told me after that that when there are times
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: where I've had to cancel a session or skip a
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: week or you know, they had to skip a week.
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: They said they actually felt like they were missing something
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: though it was like, oh, huh, so even in the
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: times when we were meeting, it's like I don't know
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: what I'm getting from this maybe, but when there were
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: times we weren't meeting, it was like, huh, I really
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: missed therapy this week, or like I missed going and
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: talking about things. And the other thing they shared, which
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: is I think the most helpful and I would go
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: to typically anyway for any client, is what do.
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: People around you say?
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: And they were getting a lot of feedback from friends
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: or people close to them that was like, hey, your
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: demeanor's changed or something's different about you, and so, yeah,
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: I think that I could say. Lastly, they didn't always
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: do the things that I would suggest either, so I'm
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: not saying you're doing this writer, but that was kind
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: of a conclusion we came to as well.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: When we were speaking.
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: They were like, maybe I you know, I'm paying for
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: those maybe I should actually do the things.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: I'm like, it's an option if.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: They're really feel like I'm not making progress and I
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: keep doing this thing and you're like yeah, and you
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: have to very very gently help them. Also, notice that
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: the last five things you've asked them to do they
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: never did, and they're like, I just feel like all
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: we do is talk about updates in these sessions, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: just like I tell you about that, I mean, I'd
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: really like to steer you in more productive directions.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I just come in here and vent. I just don't
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: feel like that's very productive.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: So they can lay luckily came to that conclusion on
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: their own.
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: I was like, okay, so yeah, it was.
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: Interesting, but it was a very helpful, like discussion for
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: both of us, and I thought really insightful and something
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: I would share with any client. Yeah, you know, what
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: are the people saying in your life? Because sometimes it
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: is hard when we're so close to it, maybe not
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: feeling a million times better.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I love that you shared that. I mean,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: these kinds of questions are so interesting, right because I
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: think we can slice this into a couple of different directions.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: There's an interesting conversation to be had about finding a
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: good fit. Because you were just commenting on that, like, actually,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: there a lot of therapists will notice that they tend
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: to attract people of certain types, usually personality types, and
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: there's something about our way that they've gotten a hint
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: of they've read our writing, they've seen our picture, they've
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: learned about our backstory. God forbid, they've ever listened to
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: pot therapy. That's a bad day.
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: I love podcasts. I was like, that's great.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I did not tell oh yeah, never speak a word
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: about it, though, do you recommend?
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I've had people say do you recommend any mental health podcasts?
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: Don't search?
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, no, exactly, I don't want them
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: to start searching. You're coming up in the search results,
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: and so I'm like, all they I guess they're Paral's
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: really good, but yeah, no. So like the therapist fit,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I think is one area that we should definitely chat about.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: And another one is this idea of stagnancy or like, okay,
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: ways to look at this question of making progress? And
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I think you're giving us one example of one way
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: to look at that, which is, hey, observe the bigger picture.
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you don't feel the momentum, you're not feeling the
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: velocity in the room. But when other people are around
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: you and checking in and you get their sample of
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: what they notice, they'll say things like, actually, I found
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: you to be quite a bit more honest lately. The
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: other day you told me something and I thought, Wow,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: the old you really wouldn't have said that, and you
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: probably even noticed that or whatever. You know, you're less
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: obsessive about conversations after they happen.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: So that's I think.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Another thing to talk about is just how do we
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: qualify success? And you know, a third thing to probably
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: chat about two is this idea of like authenticity and insight,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: because I do think a big step we always try
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: to do in all forms of therapy is beginning with insight.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: But the writers saying I've got insight coming out of
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: my hands like I'm good, I've got.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: It all, I know where it's coming, that's not.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Necessarily changing anything. And I think in addiction's work, this
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: is something that we've had to wrestle with a lot
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: because we've had people that are like, no, I one
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: hundred percent except that I'm alcoholic. I know why, I
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: know where it came from, I know what my true are.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: I know, but I keep fucking drinking and the behavior
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: has not changed. And we've had to tackle that before
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Nick and say things like Okay, great, INSIGHT's not going
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: to stop you from this problem, Like you have a
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: behavior condition, and we need to start making alternate changes
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: to this to impose proactive new strategies.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean knowing better doesn't necessarily mean that you
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: do better, not always, So yeah, they've to this point.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: There definitely has to be part of that also, I
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: think is motivation, motivation for change, And I think that's,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: you know, in the addictions world, I think that's kind
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: of where we have changed. Yeah, kind of where we
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: get stuck sometimes because yeah, you may be in action
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: stage change or preparation stage change today, may be a
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: pre contemplation tomorrow.
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, applicable to just in general mental health, because maybe
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: they did make it to showing up, but like how
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: did they even get there? Were they wanting to or
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: did they just like drag their feet? And yeah, we're
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: how motivated?
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: And I think the thing with stagnation, you know, I
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: for me hearing this, I think one of the problems
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: that I see this happen all the time is when
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: there's no clarity of what progress looks like from the onset.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: So like day one, if I'm meeting with the client,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: the very first thing that we're talking about is we're
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: talking about if we can make I Sometimes you use
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: the miracle question, you're going to bring it up. Or
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: the other way is sometimes sometimes people don't like the
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: miracle question because it's too out there and it's just people.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: You lose people that way. So another way that I
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: like to rephrase the miracle question is I like to say, like, look,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you're you're this is a big investment for you. You're
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: investing your time to come to my office, You're investing
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: your money, you're paying for all of this. You want
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: outcomes hypoth Let's say six months from now, let's say
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: this goes amazingly well, six months from now, what kind
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: of progress would you describe to me, what your life
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: would look like?
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: What is amazingly well known?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just the miracle question. It's just it's more
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: it's baked down into kind of a more realistic perspective.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: But then I get them to define and actually picture
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: what progress looks like, because progress for some people doesn't
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: mean the problem goes away. Progress for some people means
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I have a better ability to deal with the problem,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: better ability to cope with the problem, or the problem
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: can exist and it's not going to destroy my marriage
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: or something like that. So I think that's part of
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: the problem is because I see this all the time
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: when people get into treatment and they don't they haven't identified.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: It's like starting it. It's like signing up for a race,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: but there's no demarcation of what the finish line looks like.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: There's no finish line, there's no one there with the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: stop watch, there's no The course isn't plotted out like
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: how you've done?
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Do I keep running? Like where running is healthy? What
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: is it supposed to the track? And this is what
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: happens in therapy. When you don't identify and you don't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: visualize and picture what progress looks like, then you get
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: to a point like this, we have no idea, like
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: even if I'm on the right track, am I making progress?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: What is it supposed to feel like?
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: Now?
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: You nailed it? That's totally true.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things I've had patients say,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: because I'll ask that same question, I like how you Also,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: I think for students, interns and colleagues helped put better
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: legs on on the miracle question because the concept miracle
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: question is a very good idea, But the original writing
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: of the pitch is to say, tomorrow morning, you wake
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: up an angel sitting at the end of your bed.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: They say, everything you've been waiting for to change has changed.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: I'm now going to disappear. The only way you're going
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: to know is by noticing. And then the angel disappears.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Then you think, oh my god, am I high?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Like you know, was that?
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Did that really happen? Nobody else saw the angel? Did
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: I just fucking angel?
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Did I just Angel?
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: Night?
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Titty angels? Nothing wearing nothing like, I don't know what's happening?
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Everything for I don't know? Did we by the way?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Great band name?
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah Angel, I don't know.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: A third band this Christian Rochester would be a good
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: ballad for seafood sugar Cookine. Yeah, I think you're Yeah Angel,
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: You're just skaraoke bar to the tune of Send me
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: An Angel. Just go to a karaoke bar, sign up
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: for send me An Angel, and every time it says
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: send me an Angel's big Angel.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: That's a rock ballad, Yeah exactly.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: It's got to be picture like White Snake, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: But the sincere as we can possibly do it, like
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: not a smile on the face.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: He was from the Eyes Coverdale is nothing sincere.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Anyway, That's the bit, and then the person goes through
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: the day and they're like, oh, I've noticed I'm not
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: angry at my children when they asked me to make breakfast.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I used to be so irritated, and
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: I'm just not. I'm at peace. So we use that
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: question to kind of get people to imagine the felt
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: differences in their life. But I do it the way
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: you just described. I never do the miracle question anymore.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: But the first intake session, I always ask how you
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: just did. If one day you look back and you
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: say therapy was a win, I did it. I can
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: stop what needed to change?
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Like, what is the difference? Right?
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: What would you reference in your five star review happened
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: in your life?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: So I love that, And this is exactly why we
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: need that here, writer, because in your situation, I've had
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: patients say I want insight into this.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: That's my goal, Jim, I.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Want to know why I do this, and I'll say okay,
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: and I'll usually push them on it and go would
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: knowing be enough or would you be wanting that to change?
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Or do you want to go ahead and set this
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: first goal of understanding it and maybe we revisit this
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: later and talk about changing that behavior, you know, just
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: to kind of plant seeds, right, But you're right, sometimes
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: the stage of change they're in is just I don't
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: know that I would do anything about it, but knowing
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: why I drink so much would be great. It's like, okay,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: let's start there. I hope I can parlay it in
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: something more. In your case, Writer, that's what's missing. So
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: you have like boatloads of insight where we need to
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: change the treatment plan. And I'm really proud of you, Nick,
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: I know you resisted the urge to say I know
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: it's hard.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: We were all waiting with our shot glasses.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing. Here's the thing. I didn't have to.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: You didn't have to because you both knew.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I knew.
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: I knew you were going to say.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: The listeners I read.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: You're you're going to say something sometimes the treatment plan.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: You're about to push me. Yeah you're going to put.
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I got a poke.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: But that's where we need an adaptation on this, because
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: I would want the question to be what would be
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: different for you? And the answer is for one of
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: the things Writer said is like I kind of associate
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: whenever I'm speaking. I don't really I'm not mindful of
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: what's happening when it's happening, and then afterward, I'm kind
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: of really curious, what did I say? How did my
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: tone come off? I don't have a good self perception.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: And so like, if I'm that therapist, I'm starting to
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: say we're going to start doing behavioral activation therapy, Like
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: we're gonna I'm gonna sign you up for toast Masters
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: or make you sign up, you know, and like I'm
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: going to have you start taking on small challenges where
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: you're speaking in public in small ways just to a
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: group of five, or you know, giving a toast or
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: speech at this thing. We've got to start developing this
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: or I'm going to have you start activating this new
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: behavior that you want to audition and get used to.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: That way we can get more opportunities. We need to
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: get more at bats, you know, to see how you
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: do this and why you black out. It's another thing
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: to have insight. It's nothing to try something different every
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: time you get a chance.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of interns that I used to work with,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: you know, when we would talk about treatment planning, they would,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you know, they would write really good treatment planning goals
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: and objectives around you know, improving awareness, improving understanding of
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: you know, being able to verbalize understanding of blah blah blah.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: And I I always push them a little bit like, Okay,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: that's a great first start or first step. What are
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: you going to do then next? Because at some point
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: you have to have application, right, Yeah, if our goal
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: is to improve functioning or decrease symptoms, there has to
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: be something behavioral that we're doing with us and we
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: have to be acting on it otherwise. Yeah, we're just
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: improving knowledge and that doesn't necessarily go anywhere.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that behavior is actually holding hands
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: with this concept.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Writer.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: I mean you might be thinking, guys, I complained about
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: feeling inauthentic finding myself portraying me in very specific, censored
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: ways because I fear the outcome, and that seems like
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: this automatic, you know, kind of deeper psyche kind of thing.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: I know it seems that way, writer, But that is
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: exactly why we need behavior octivations. We need to make
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: you do something different, yeah, and see how that settles
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: and make it uncomfortable so that you can get more
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: used to the discomfort.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's kind of where I was
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: going to go to.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I steal your thing. Were you going to talk about
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: treatment plans too?
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: I was, but I was just going to tear down
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: I just I started taking those two day training. I
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: only got through day one so far. But on OCD,
• 52:20
  Speaker 6: but it touches on yeah, like exposure therapy and that
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: type of thing, sitting in uncomfortability or uncertainty and things
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: like that. But yeah, it's like really similar concepts that
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: I think can help people outside of just OCD.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, when it comes to therapist fit, I know
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: that we get this question a lot, you know, by
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: our friends and families, and they're saying, how do you
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: find a good fit?
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Like what do you think matters?
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Earlier you you kind of mentioned, yeah, you know, there
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: tends to be folks that become our patients that we
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: seem to get along with pretty well. But then we
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: also meet folks that just honestly, the two of us
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: couldn't be cut from different cloths correct than we already are.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: And you know, I'll come back everywhere.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we work with them and you know, their their
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: rhythm is not our rhythm, and it takes us a
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: while to adapt and learn to read them. Yes, and
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: I know what they're saying and when they say it,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: and how to you know, respond and where and what
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: they'd benefit from. But when you give other people advice,
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: like here's you know, things I would suggest might matter
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: for a good fit, or things that you know, if
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: you notice aren't clicking in your therapeutic relationship, maybe it
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: isn't a good fit. Or times when it's like, look,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: you're overthinking that. Just do the work you know, and
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: don't don't necessarily make that the priority.
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: I know with this writer's question or dilemma, I guess
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: my initial thought was, oh, maybe look for a new therapist.
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: But a few things that kind of stuck out to
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: me as little like I don't know, I'm not going
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: to call them flags. But you said you'd been to
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: other therapists, So it's kind of curious what happened with those?
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: Why did you stop going to those? Was it just
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: because they weren't doing therapy anymore? You moved? Like what happened?
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: And then they went in to describe Blake.
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: Probably a pretty decent relationship with your therapist. Do you
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: feel like they're listening to you? I feel understood, understood,
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: and you know, writer, you mentioning that, uh, the clinician
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: might be like critical or kind of judge towards you. Gosh,
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: maybe they are, because you know, yeah, maybe they are,
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: but maybe they're trying. They've built that rapport with you,
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: so they are. They're pushing, pushing a little bit, because
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: therapists will do that. And that's probably one of the
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: most common things I see in like Reddit threads or whatever.
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: It's like, Oh, I love my therapist, everything is great,
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: and then they did this one thing. Everyone's like, fuck
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: that therapist, and I'm like, what's.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Always that's always the answer. I wouldn't even know how
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: to begin. Don't tell them, don't tell them, don't look
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's like declaring bankruptcy.
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: Shot declare, I declare.
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: But I do think that there could be value.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Who knows, You're not going to get an answer from the
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: real estate board bother them.
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: Sometimes.
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: I do believe, though, that you can gain value from
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: seeing a therapist, even if they're not the best fit,
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: and take something away from that that's still helpful and
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: maybe go seek somebody who might be about it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: Too often, I dislike that people land on change the
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: therapist as the answer.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I think a it.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: It involves a huge overestimation of what therapy is and
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: cure all. I think b it causes a lot of
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: people because they want those short, fast answers, which of
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: course we all do and and that sucks. Or they
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: think that the therapist is an oracle. It's supposed to
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: like have some kind of magic insight and be playing
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: three dimensional chess, and it's like, no, you're kind of
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: doing this emotional yoga thing with us, and you need
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: to clearly specify what's working and not working. And also, writer,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: you talk about struggling with authenticity with authority figures because
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: you're scared of somehow the consequence of that being that they.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: No longer approve of you. I'm curious how transparent you've been.
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: I was like, oh, the therapist is an authority.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: I'm curious if you've been cards on the table about like, hey,
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: sometimes they feel like I really have.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: A lot of awareness.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: But I think I'm ready for behavior change, and I
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: think I want to start imagining a more creative way
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: for us to do therapy that's focused not on me
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: and me reporting my experiences, but I want to start
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: designing new plays, things that I'm going to do differently
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: in my life, and I want your coaching and support
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: for me to execute those plays and experience those changes
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: so I can audition new mindsets on the road.
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: Write it down.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could just cut that.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: You can just turn that into a drop and you
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: you just hear I wrote into a show they said this. Yep,
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: I want to do this, but yeah, I think that
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: there's an over emphasis.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: I'm fit yeah too much that.
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: So I was like, I don't know if you have
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: that good rapport with them, And it's.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: Really hard because that is also the best predictor of
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: therapeutic results, is like whether or not you have a
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: great rapport you know yet true?
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: So why destroy that rapport?
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I mean I get the idea of switching therapists if
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: you've already manipulated every other variable. Yeah, and sometimes you
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: just like, you know, like.
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: We've run it, of course.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like a sports team, it's like, Okay, we've given
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: you the best players we can. We've been recruiting as
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: hard as we can, We've been doing all these things.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe we just need to change in the coach.
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: Now, you know how the coach coaches have the same.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: Let's do something exactly but yeah, when the Cleveland Browns
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: are like, you think we want to change the coach,
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: Like I think, maybe just start fucking with one good player,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: like maybe just that.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was kind of thinking, like the Iowa
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: haw guys like offensive coordinator, maybe you need to go.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I realize you're the coach's son, but maybe you a position,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, I don't know.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Maybe this isn't always the people plays, but just the thought. Yeah,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: good question. Writer really enjoyed this one. And you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: it's something a lot of people teeter totter on and
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: it's tough. Like Nick said, you know, yes, it is
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: a variable that can change. And yes, statistically we do
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: know that is the greatest predictive of results. But a
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: lot of positive green flags are being shared in this dynamic. Yeah,
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: I would want us to change the strategy before I'd
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: want to change the coach.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: That's probably something I want to do.
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: There, they can they can shift and meet you right now.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: For a lot of therapists, we don't proactively start adjusting
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: the strategy, especially in certain dynamics. If you're seeing somebody
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: for six months, like in my practice, it's all out
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: of pocket, right.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: There's no insurance.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: When there's an insurance, I have to constantly go back
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: to the insurance and tell them, here's what we're doing,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: here's what we're doing this week, here's and they're badgering
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: you or whatever. And so it's the sense of like
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: you sometimes don't have the freedom to decide as a
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: team what you're going to do.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but whenever.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: In my practice, I have a lot of folks that
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: I am just the person in their life long term. Yeah,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: and so sometimes shit sitting the fan in their life.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing them every week. Sometimes I haven't seen them
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: for several months, and then they come in They're like, oh, hey, Jim,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: I want to catch up at the end of the summer. Here,
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: last time I talked to you was in May. Let
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: me get you up to date with what's going on. Also,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: I wanted to pick your brain on some stuff. And like,
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: as we're doing this, I'm checking on them, like, so,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: here's that presenting problem you've had in the past, how
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: have you done with that this summer? Like okay, great,
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: So like I've got people that do that writer and
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: for somebody that if you're seeing them long term, six
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: months is very much considered long term, there's this sense
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: of like from the therapist's chair, we can think I
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: think we're in a maintenance posture. I think I'm just
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: here to like kind of give you the space to
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: be authentic, because you talk about not being authentic out there.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: So if you're doing that here, we're doing therapy. We're
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: accomplishing probably what's written on the treatment plan and to
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: this is the place we audition these skills. This is
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: the place you're doing them. So for the therapist, they're
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: probably thinking this is going great. We're building insight, you're
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: talking about your truth. Everything's awesome. Yeah, that doesn't mean
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: they're a bad therapists, Like that might be the thing
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking is going well. But I don't know any
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: different until you come to me and say, I feel
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: like we're doing We've we've finished the project of insight
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: building mission accomplished, therapist. Now I want to create a
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: new project called change of behavior and new mental postures.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I want to audition change and try to experience it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: great Now I know that that's what you don't work on. Yeah,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: and write up the treatment plan and everybody takes a shot,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: because we're going to take a quick break and when
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: we come back, we're going to talk about failing a
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: Capstone course update letter. Oh, Jacob has pulled up the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: board of examiners.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Nobody say anything, everybody just let it go. Let's ignore it.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Jack Schneider, Judy Schneider,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Leon Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, My Count, Darren
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: cuttingham Back and Lisa Tangement. Would you like to sponsor
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: the show?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Dot com slash therapy turns out it's easy to find.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: I know, damn you Google Oh auto fills old Jim information.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a whole form on the website that is
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: are you here to complain about another therapist?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: It's just a drop down or gym drop they.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, who can name the most sports that we're in
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the twenty twenty Summer Olympics?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Number?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's here's what I think. I think. We go
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: until somebody can't think of it?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: All right, all right, category, and you have a master
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: list in front of you, right, but you can't look
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: at him or just don't look at him, be a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: ref Do we know if we're wrong?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: We can figure out figured out?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Will get there in one turn. You're going first, you've
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: gone last, last couple. All right, I'll take golf.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: This is a benefit to go first.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have free.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: Okay, he said golf.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: I'll say golf.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: You're gonna verify each one of these. Okay, this is dumb.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Guys.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: You do know that Nick cannot lose, right, he has
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: to verify your Okay, I'm out. Okay, it has to happen.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: I'm just being the guy telling the truth. But we
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: know that golf and swimming are in there. We all
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: agree that golf and swimming are in there.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. Great, I know that they're in there,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: so I don't care what you know.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Uh, these are only summer Olympics, right yeah?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Running?
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Uh no, what do you mean it's running? No, bolt, No,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: that's not what it's called. Oh, come the fuck off.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: But swimming fucking counts. Yes, because swimming is called swimming.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: What is running called? What that would? Because it just did.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 7: That's the dumbest fucking thing. They should call swimming pool.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 7: They don't call it fucking pool. They call it swimming
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 7: because that's the activity. You can't name the fucking activity
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: after the place. You do the activity and call that
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 7: the sport. This goddamniculous.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Hey I would have I would have let it go.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: H But now that I'm in a position but.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: To referee this.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Gym's out, it's.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Almost fuck you Olympics. Something about a batard in this
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: fuck you Olympics. God damn a dumb No, it's called
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the fucking fools.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: Oh I'm cold target baro shooting, I say, since no
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: one's guessed that yet.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Track, Oh yeah, Track, I did hate you. I thought
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: that was sure would take.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: This brain is not functioning today.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: I'll even give me killed the old twitch.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Track, I was just gonna say Field, back.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: To wad you do the fucking sports, but not the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: names of the sports.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: God damn you Olympics. If your guest had been Field,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't let it go.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I almost.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: You're back up.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: It's my turn. Yeah, m soccer. Did they play soccer
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: in twenty twenty?
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: They did?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, twenty twenty or twenty twenty four? What are we doing?
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: Do you say?
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Twenty Oh? Okay, yes, okay, I was it was less
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: than under football.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really glad we just established that because I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: was definitely getting ready to say breaking. Oh yeah, which
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: was just in the twenty four Yeah. Yeah, so I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: will say canoeing. Correct, Wow, that was one that I
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: enjoyed watching this year.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: Oh, Jim's just out.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: Because he's run because after the place, did do it
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: be the arbiter?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: The arbiter did his job.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: Is any other sport that way? Is any other one
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: named after the place you do it and not the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: thing itself?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Right? I don't know.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: What you do. Basketball is not a place. Basketball is
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: an activity.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: Field hockey track is a fucking place hockey.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: So I was answering Jim's question. Is anything else named
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: after the place that? Sorry, I'm hijacking the trivia?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, continu you kayaking. I already gave you a canoeing,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: so that's the same thing.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's in the same category. Okay, Is anyone guest
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: field hockey?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: No field hockey? Yes? Great?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: It is water polo? Did we say that?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: We have not said one? Water? Is that not under swimming?
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Because Nick said swimming earlier that meters I.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Think I see it as different than but I don't.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: But I've recently learned that there's a difference between sports
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: and events in the Olympics.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: I do not see water polo on here. It might
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: be under swimming or.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: I didn't do it.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 6: Maybe it's too too much fluids. You know, That's what
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: I'm thinking, Like some things weren't done.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gotcha?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, what about sailing? Just kidding?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Also not in there? Okay for the wind? Oh, I
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: have to name one more and go rules. Let's see
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: uh oh, shooting.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 5: I was going to say from when I said arch
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: you said archery. I forgot about shooting though, but I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: thought i'd be called something else.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Whitney's back in the game.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Can I come back to what's what's a shooting called?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: It's not.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: I wonder what category that's under sudden death. I wonder
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: if that's under like t first to get it?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: When?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: What if that's track and field or something? Whitney gets
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: another life?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: Let me think what? Oh, table tennis?
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, can Jacob?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: What's on at the gym? Whenever? There?
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Race? Walking?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: What the fuck? No? Who?
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: I have another one?
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: You didn't forget twenty four?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: Do I get another? You were because you.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Got that round?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: What was your next one? Volleyball and indoor and beach?
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, look.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: At me, all right.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed watching race walking in the Olympics.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 6: Where did you see the one where the lady maybe
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: that was the one where the lady came up from
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 6: behind like she thought she was winning, and this lady
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: just comes up and right at the last minute passes.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 5: I was like, is she running? Running?
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: But you can't run. It's ridiculous to have a foot
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: on the ground. I always have to maintain contact with
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: the ground, so you can never.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: Have both feed off through them.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 6: But it looks I mean they are like maybe like
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: they're running and this one lady's like, yeah, the other
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: one's so far behind, who's in second, So she like
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: gets closer and it's not till write at the last
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: and minute she passed hers, Like yeah.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: And it actually is the slow motion because walking it's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: so much faster than you think.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: Yes, it's bizarre.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: We can all go.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Out in the parking lot right now and do it
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: and like actually like and be race walking and it
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be remotely similar to what they're doing.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: Do you think the best racers could do well in
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: this event? It's a whole different it's a whole different animal.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: I don't know how on here or in person with
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: someone where we talked about like they should have just
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: a regular person do each event.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: Was that in here?
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, like I really want them, but you can see
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: how ridiculously good they.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: Are sports because there was somebody.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Sent us it on the Australian break Dancer.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I feel bad, Like every time I see
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: that video, I don't watch it because I feel terrible
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: for her.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I feel really bad for that she's getting.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: She is getting a huge amount of hate now, yes
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: she's getting Jake Lloyd hate. Yeah, she didn't hurt anybody,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: she didn't like whatever.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: So on Instagram, one of the listeners last time we
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: brought up the whole Bill Murray theory of half of
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: your average guy.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: They sent us a video of somebody that that did that.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: So there's a whole YouTube channel that went to the
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Olympics and then they got average people that were just
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: showing up there to do the events and just to
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: see what that would show up as you they just
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: had them do all the event and then they show
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: you look.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: There was also like a couple of countries where somebody
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: just like they were the only one competing in the
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: sport so they automatically got to go.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jamaican bobsled encourage. Yeah, you don't have to qualify
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: like you have to. You have to meet the minimum
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: standard and you're in dance like.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: You're Australian breakdancer.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: We've got an update letter.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: Unless there's more trivia, go ahead, Okay, we've got an
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: update letter from a writer a while back.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: By the way, we all get a point there. The
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: listeners didn't get anything.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, we're smoking them to that they're fat. You
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: guys should get podcasts. Yeah, that's how you get this.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: So from episode three twelve, the writer is sending in
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: an update.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Hello, pod Therapy. I wanted to give you.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Guys an update on a letter I sent it a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: while ago about failing my college capstone class twice. Thank
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: you so much for the advice and words of encouragement,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: as well as the perspectives on how hard it is
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: to finish a degree. I'm happy to say I finished
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: the class in April, and I graduated college in May.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: I finally got my evenings back, and I'm able to
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: focus on some of the other things I want to
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: do with my life. For some context, the capstone course
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: entailed writing a compiler for a fictional programming language defined
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: by the professor. A compiler translates the English language keywords
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: in grammar like if X then y and when case
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: one do case two into logic that switches and circuits
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: your computer that they can do computer stuff with. The
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: assembly code generated by the copiler had to execute inside
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: of a virtual machine we had made in a separate
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: architecture class about a year before. It was stupid hard,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: especially while I was working full time and the most
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: failed class at my college. Fortunately, the third time around,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: I was able to drag the whole project kicking and screen.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Over the finish line.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: I'm working a different, lower stress tech job now and
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: I'm finally able to start doing other things with my life.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: Thanks again for your votes of confidence and perspectives.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Over the past few years, I've.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: Done a lot of research on CBT and ACT and
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: your resources on grounding techniques and other deep dives have
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: been invaluable to me. Pod Therapy rocks. Thanks again, Signed
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: Weird Titanic metaphor guy from episode three twelve Weird Today.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: A metaphor guy from episode three twelve said they have
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: a new job. Oh yeah, yeah, new job patreon dot
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: com slash. Let's get that. You don't have to tie
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: or anything.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got you through college, buddy. I think that's
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: a year of therap producing.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, just another good example of the good work
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: that we do here at pod therapy. We get people
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: college degrees.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: That's right. Inspect a little cheddar on top.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: Or take college.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: Also, if you've been lost on the show, I think
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: net positive.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I've only gained. I've only gained college.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: That is congratulations, writer, that's terrific, man. That sounds like
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: a hell of a project, doesn't it.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: I'd rather write a dissertation than have to make up
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: because you don't know how to do the other thing.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I know how to write. Boobs off.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: I would dissertation because I don't know programming, like.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: A better shot at that.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: Wow, congratulations. We we love update letters, by the way.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: We get them every once in a while. We don't
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: always read them on the show. Sometimes it's just like, hey, great,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: we circulate that among the hosts, so we can, you know,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: kind of get an update. It really depends on how
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: many questions we have. And this week the writer wrote
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: that in during a slow week, we don't have any
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: more questions, which means the.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Queue is open. This is your moments.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: If you listen to the show and you're like, oh,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: I have a question about my life, or somebody in
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: your life has an interesting thing going on, and you
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: want to throw that into the pot and see what
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: we come up with. Patreon is a great place to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: submit them. You can also go to pod or our
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: website which is podtherapy dot net and if you go there,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: there is a button right there at the top. It's
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: a Tumblr page, but it just looks like a typical website,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: and there's a button that says submitted question, and you
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: can do that anonymously. If you have a shorter question,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: you can just type into the box and it's send.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: If you have a longer question, there's a form for
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: that and you do not have to give us any
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: of your personal information, and it says it on the
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: website right Whenever you click the drop down, it'll say, hey,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: if you just want to keep this anonymous, it'll ask
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: for an email address, lie make something up just you know,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: no at no dot com or whatever, So you can
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: absolutely submit that. As soon as those go through, we
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: get them right away. We do prioritize supporters of the show.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: If they write in, they do go to the top
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: of the queue. But right now may as well write
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: in because that list is empty, and if we don't
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: have things to answer, it's just gonna be a whole
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: lot of trivia.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a question, Yeah, Whitney, have you ever
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: eaten at Korean barbecue?
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Right into the show?
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Korean barbecue?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: How messy was it?
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Did you get grease?
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: Well, you do cook it yourself?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: The table gets at splashy.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think splashy.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, I got splashed by grease. So we went to
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: Master Kim's. We threw the meat on there.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: I questioned the quality.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: Of the meat that he got, questioned popping off this thing. Man,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: maybe he made it too hot. You think that was it.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but no, I had it on my
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: pants and like, yeah, it should be like super lean meat.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: There should be much to pop.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: I can't marinade.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, maybe you know, I'm sure they were all marinated,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean I was pissed because we were
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: getting popped with this hot grease. So our hands and
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: arms on the table, like all four people at the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: table pulling away from the table because we're getting splash.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: It's really uncomfortable. And then everything around that little grill
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: in the center was getting grease on it and was
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: just yucky, and like all the table was just like
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: obviously wet and gross, and it was just just enough
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: to be annoying. I mean, it's not like the you know,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: we were drenched, but you don't want hot grease hitting
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: any part of your skin when you're at dinner and
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: right something nice.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: So we do have a follow up. It's down if
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: you scroll down. Oh do a follow up section. Oh oh,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: follow ups, Dear Master Jim Oh. I went to Master.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Kims Oh okay.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: I was like, I was disappointed to hear your review
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: of Master Kim's Korean barbecue. As a vegan, Master Kim's
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: quickly became one of my favorite restaurants in Las Vegas
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: because of their all you can eat vegan meat menu.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Ooh.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: Rather than partnering with one brand of imitation meat, the
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: staff did their research and tested out a variety of
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: products to select the options that had the right flavor
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: and texture, as well as what had the best cooking
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: experience for the customer. To top it off. Their vegan
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: menu is cheaper than the omnivore menu, which is unheard of.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: My wife and I have been several times and we
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: have never been splashed with grease. In my defense, you
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: don't cook meat, fuck you writer.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Cooking veggies. I'm not surprised.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: It has always been an enjoyable experience. As for Slater's
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: fifty to fifty, back when I ate meat, I loved
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: that restaurant for their custom burger options and vampire dip.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, the vampire DIP's fucking amazing.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: I've never heard of this.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's so good.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: It's just it's like a spinnach chart choke dip served
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: in a bread bowl. But it's like more than a
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: spinach chart trok. The base is probably spinnach chart choke.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: But yeah, really really good. At least when I went.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: I went a lot, and you would fill out a
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: paper form with all the options and toppings you want
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: for your burger. I would usually get the fifty to
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: fifty beef and pork patty on a pretzel bun with
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: vampire dip, bacon and garlic aoli. Then you get to
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: name your burger, and when they deliver it, they call
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: out whatever the name is, you could call it Jim's
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: Pillow Reservoir, memoirir Croissant Berger, and they would say that.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 5: Like that. They would say it the right way.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I encourage vote. I encourage you to go
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: with Nick Whitney and Jacob to a different Korean barbecue.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: But I also highly recommend Master Kim's for anyone looking
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: for a unique vegan dining experience.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Yours in therapy. J. W. Reynolds me, I didn't know
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: they had vegan stuff there. That is pretty cool. Sound nice.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 5: Have you both Jacob and Nick been to Korean barbecue?
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, still have a favorite place.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: I've only been once and it was down It was
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: on Spring Mountain in Chinatown.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really good. I liked it. Yeah.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 6: I was looking up the place that i'd been before.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 6: I couldn't quite remember, but it was eight eight eight
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 6: Korean Barbecue. I like that place, Okay, but they usually
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 6: do all you can eat, like you can disorder off
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 6: the you did.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: I did, and but like it, just don't get me
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: started winning, don't give.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: Me wound up.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: There's a whole episode about this you're just gonna have
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: to go listen because we we.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Spend a lot of time on it. It became the
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: name of the country on.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: Episode Go use Peter's Patreon.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: To find yes.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 5: I know I've got to.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: you can sign up at patreon dot com slash Therapy.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: You can get the extended show ad free a day earlier,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: as well as enjoy our live chat discord community, and
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: our weekly deep dives, interview, skill shares, research rounds, ups,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: and rants. This week I released a research roundup on
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: the FDA's rejection of ecstasy for treatment of PTSD, and
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: so we go into the weeds of what the clinical
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: trials were, h what the FDA's report was, yeah, the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: Scientific Advisory Committee, and what their hang ups were, and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: what the fate of it is as a medicine because
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: it's not dead in the water. It has a path,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: but there's a lot that the FDA is asking for.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: And so we go through it and really kind of
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: a turn all that on. So that's really good information.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: But we've got some new friends to welcome to the
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: therap party. Who's new to the program.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Nick. We got a new therapal welcome, Christine, and we
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: got a new therapod Levy.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's pronounced correctly.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, Jim would know. He's the expert in I.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Feel that I'm on, go on, but you're bearing the lead.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: Nick, I am bearing the lead.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: We've got a new therap producer. We do.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: We got a new executive, a new new listener has
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: walked into the boardroom.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Kicked open the boardroom.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: Elena.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Welcome Elena.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: Who I do have scheduled now for a get to
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: know that their.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Producer Man, you are milking this series.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: I've got I've got three already done. I've got I
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: think five scheduled.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: That's cool. So there, that's the reason to do it
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: right there.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: If you think that would be interesting on an interview
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: with Nick, there's something to be fun for you.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: They're they're thirty minutes twenty to thirty minutes in length. Okay,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: so they're easily digestible. Yeah, you're going to get six questions. Uh,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: and that's it. Their producer, Ben Don wants to do it. However,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: he doesn't. This is not sincere. He he doesn't want
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: to answer questions. Apparently, he feels he needs to set
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: the record straight. There's some shit I've been saying that's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: time too, but honestly, yeah, you give him a break.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: It's your time. It's your time. We haven't a gender.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: You don't have to follow it.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 4: But from this amount of time can be shifted by
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: how much money you want to put it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that hour, Yeah, yeah, there's a money. There's a
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: right hour.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: So the rest of their producers. If if you want
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: to participate, I hope to get everybody, but you don't
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: have to. But if you want to participate in an interview,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: please reach out to me. You can do it through
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: discord or you can just email me at my Nick
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: at mentalfit personal Training dot com. Email me there and
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: we will get you scheduled.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: There you go, looking forward to getting of anybody out
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: of the four of us. If you want the easiest
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: interviewer that you're gonna get, it's Nick.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: Nick is gonna be the nicest, friendliest interview that you're
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: gonna get.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: Out of the four of us, as far as easy.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: If that's what you describe, I'm easy.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's gonna be nice, don't Nick. Nick's iowa nice
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: honestly not asking.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: The hardway questions exactly.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: You know, those those really big, difficult, hardball political questions
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: that vice presidents of the past have been asked, like
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: have you read anything lately? Sarah Palin, when Sarah Palin
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: took a nose dive because like Katie Couric asked have
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: you read anything lately?
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: And it was like gotcha question?
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: Question like Whitney did I got it?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: It was a big day.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: Anyway, We'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous speak
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: about Sarah Pale very often.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 6: Now I have thought it was Donald Trump, but he
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 6: was a vice president, so that crossed him.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: On pro therapy diehards who love you all so much
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: they give till it hurts.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: The therap partners, thank you, Dirty Bee and pick It.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: And we want to thank our boss is the mysterious
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: and shrouded Illuminati, members of the fan Club, the their producers,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: thank you. Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mint Smitty
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: Scoop bend On, Judy Schneider, Kayla Ansberry, Malia Leon cassab
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: Mason Miller, Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: Sammy Scoop, Ben Stanley, Slap in your Face, Sarah Smith,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: Adam Hathaway, Builer t, Mike Helm, Paris, Samantha Cone, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: Lib Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Matt, Lisa, Tanjaman,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: Heyo Oscar Swan rose A, sunny Boy, Slipca Fucker. It's
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Andrew mcgwaffle, Dan Martin, Hanna, Marie, Andrew Langmead, Emma Kine
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: and welcoming Alina.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: And if you would like to hear this episode uncut
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: and unedited and and enjoy our spontaneous side projects to
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: go to pictureon dot com slash therapy and thank you
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: for supporting mental health.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: That's all the time we get for this week's session.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: One to think our Landlord's Met Maddingly's ice Cream Social
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: podcast And thanks to those of you contributed to our
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: show today, we really appreciate it. Remember pod therapies and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: something to keep all to yourself. Share the episode with
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: the world, tag us on the socials when you do.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: It's at pod therapy guys on Instagram, threads and Twitter
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: at slash pod therapy on Facebook, and don't forget all
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: the extra goodies