Latest / Chirping Zebras / JOHN BUCCIGROSS | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #122

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JOHN BUCCIGROSS | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #122 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark Riley: Welcome everyone to Chirping Zebras. Mark Riley virtually alongside Gina Hobinda. And before we get into anything, want to thank our sponsor, the referees, Crease, you one stop shop, for all your refereeing needs from training, development, payment, scheduling. They do it all. Also want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. Geno Binda: The TikTok. Mark Riley: Thank you, Gino. Always nail it. You're always on the ball with that. Geno Binda: Well, right on time too p. Mark Riley: I'm telling you, it's like your line home of the bucks in Geno Binda: Yeah. Mark Riley: full ride. Just timing is impeccable. Geno Binda: It's un you know, experience is everything. Mark Riley: Yeah. Practice, practice. wanna also give a shout out to AOA Studios and also give myself a plug to check out a comedy show, Mark Riley Comedy on all the socials. And so we can do that. Yeah, we talked about it at the end and Geno Binda: Yeah. I spit my beer out last week. Watching one. Yeah. Mark Riley: and and so that's it's good stuff. Yeah, no, I I appreciate Geno Binda: That was funny. so I I I didn't realize we were taking questions that Mark Riley: We my I I just put one out, my last one, creeping up to twenty thousand views and quickly approaching fifteen thousand followers on the Instagram. So Geno Binda: I was gonna say, yeah, your the follows are coming up too, yeah. It's good. Mark Riley: We're getting there. And and the zebras, we're up over eighteen thousand on the Facebook. So yeah, yeah. So we're Geno Binda: Really? We're getting there. Mark Riley: we're getting there. It it it's going. It's going. And Geno Binda: I have a feel that I guess today might might add some add some different clientele maybe. I don't know. I think we might I think we might get some Mark Riley: I think you're right. And and last lot our last episode with John Valentin was great, switching up for a little baseball. Geno Binda: I mean, talking like I I got off and you know, my I didn't tell my wife we were taping with them and I was like, we just taped with John Valentin and he was she was like, What? I was like, Yeah. I was like, I I don't know. We just I was like and she's like I was like, Well Mark Mark hits them all up at the all these celebrity golf tournaments and shows he does and everything else, so it's good. And yeah, he was awesome. Just like Mark Riley: Yeah. It pays off to be a a C-list celebrity in Boston sometimes for me, you know? Lowercase. I'm working Geno Binda: You go. Mark Riley: my way up to uppercase, but we'll Geno Binda: Yeah. Mark Riley: get there. I do want to mention too and give a shout out to Charlie Abrahams. I did his podcast, it's gonna drop Geno Binda: Mm. Mark Riley: the same week as this, a wicked business Boston podcast. And he does a really nice job. And also the cool thing he does is he t he's a photographer by trade and he takes like a portrait, an up close portrait, and just great stuff. You gotta check him out online. Wicked Wicked Business Boston and Charlie Abrahams. He has a his studio's in Boston, right on Harrison, Harrison Ave. So wanted to give a shout out to Geno Binda: Hm. Nice. Mark Riley: him and thank him for having me on and talking podcasting, comedy, you know, hockey. Talked a lot about refereeing and stuff. So good stuff. Geno Binda: Good. Give that a lesson. Mark Riley: And and today's guest, I mean, you don't get much better than John Butchgrass. Geno Binda: No. Mark Riley: like the I conversation with him, I knew it was gonna be good, right? You know it's gonna be good. He's just you know who he is. but this one, man, w what an amazing guy. Yeah, true professional Geno Binda: He's a true professional. Yeah. Mark Riley: and it and you know what, I hope everyone listens to the end because His advice at the end about life and about being patient and about, you know, just not worrying about anything trusting Geno Binda: Trust in the process and yeah. Mark Riley: just I mean, solid, solid life advice that everyone should follow. And so so I think I think everyone's gonna enjoy this one. This this is a good one. So don't wanna delay it anymore. So enjoy our conversation with John Buccigross John Bootgrass, welcome to The Chirping Zebras. So happy to have you here. bucci: Great to be here. Geno Binda: Awesome. Mark Riley: Now, Gino, you you had you had some the final f the frozen four. you had a question right off the hop, I think, right? Geno Binda: Well yeah, I mean we've we actually worked together before a handful of times. you just didn't know it. I was behind the scenes. you know, refereeing, you know, Frozen Fools and then, you know, as the video replay coordinator down in the booth, that kind of stuff where I'm like, you know, communicating with the, you know, producer, you and you and Cohen you know, on the mic and you know, if there's like a video review I'm communicating to the producer and then they're communicating to you guys and you know, that was that was pretty fun, like doing bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: those those different types of types of jobs and yeah, you guys are you guys are great at what you do. bucci: it's my it's my favorite thing I do now, the frozen four. I've done thirteen of them. My first one was twenty thirteen in Pittsburgh, when Yale beat Quinnipiac in the final for Yale's first national championship. And I started I must have been a a good luck for teams winning their first national championships because I've been on a pretty Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: good run. I went Yale, then I went Union, Providence, Geno Binda: Right. bucci: got UMass's first, I got Western Michigans first. So I I do consider myself a part of those championship banners. I've I help these teams get their natties. So it it's it's Geno Binda: And and Devo must love you too. bucci: it's it's been a lot of fun. Geno Binda: no, that's awesome. Mark Riley: So with that go ahead, Gino. Geno Binda: No, no, go ahead. Mark Riley: I was gonna say y we with Gino bringing up replay, what we ask everyone their take on replay, where it's at, w how it could be improved, you know. I think the consensus now is everyone likes it, but what are your thoughts on the replay? bucci: Well, all sports are getting better at it for sure. really all right across the line, football continues to streamline, they'll call down right away and say, Nope, that's a first down, let's get going. You know, we don't have to come to a monitor, we don't have to do this song and dance. They can call down right away and say, Yep, that's not a catch. Move on. And so that helps a lot to be able to have that eye in the sky, which can do it quickly. And I think, you know, other sports will start to do that as well. The thing is, obviously, with gambling being so prevalent in professional sports now, legalized gambling. it's always been a part of professional sports illegally, but now that it's, you know, sanctioned and legal, you you you really gotta have this product that is on the up and up. You have to explain why you made this decision. There can't be any f you know, funny stuff going on where some guy profited off a bet. And that's why he made this replay call. It's not just the people on the field. The people in the booth will be now people who are looked at. And why did you, you know, because there are still calls, let's face it, where half the people said no, half the people said offside, half the people said on side. And it's, you know, it's that old adage where you can see the same act and some people s see one thing, some people see another. That's just that's human nature. So you're always gonna have a little bit of that. But because of that, you know, obviously it less is more. you know, less is better in terms of replay and flow of the game and things like that. And so, you know, the offside thing is certainly a fascinating one for hockey. So much more has to happen to score a goal. Is a fraction of an inch at the blue line, you know, does that really lead to a goal? Probably not, but I understand a rule is a rule. But I think if the if hockey and the NHL can continue to come up s with some sort of whether it's a time limit, the change of possession, whatever it is. If it doesn't lead to a goal in five seconds, well, let's let's play on. whatever we can do to limit that. Because the worst thing about it for hockey is the fact that, you know, we're a low-scoring sport like soccer. And soccer has the same issue, like in the World Cup with their offsides. There's so few scoring chances that when you do score a scoring, you know, there's scoring results, a 3-2 game, a two-one game, fans might, and now with fewer fights and fewer hits. Fans are like getting out of their seats maybe three or four times a game, screaming, right? At least in football, there's goal line stands, there's a block punt. You don't have to, you know, because their their scores, if they counted touchdowns and field goals by ones, their final scores would look like hockey, right? It'd be five, three, four, two. Same thing. But they just count six points and three points and extra points and two points. So that you know, it seems like a wow, it's 42 to 35. That's unbelievable. Well, 42-35 is a 7-6 game. Yeah, we get those in hockey, and those are awesome, but they're not 17-16 hockey games, you know? And that's why I think Geno Binda: Right. bucci: people look at a high-scoring football game. So the fact that, you know, we have these moments where everyone stands up and cheers and then there's a replay and it's no goal. That is such a buzzkill for the guy who scored the goal. Of course, the only people who feel good are the opponents and the goalie who who let it in. But so that that's the one area for hockey if the offside If there's something they can come up with an agreement where whether it's five seconds, seven seconds after it happened, to to kind of keep it moving and and make sure when it's a goal, we know it's gonna be a goal. It's not a half hearted celebration. Well, something could have happened that we didn't see, and that's not good. Geno Binda: Especially in overtime, right? Like nothing worse than overtime. You can't even celebrate. Ugh. And then if you do, bucci: Yeah, that's the worst. Right. Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: your emotions are already gone, then they're overturned bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: it. Now you gotta come out and play again. It's just like what are we doing? Yeah. bucci: Exactly. I kinda ha I had a little bit of that. I had the first playoff game of the year last year. the first game of the playoff season was Ottawa, Carolina, 'cause it was an afternoon game. S some game has to be first. That was the one I happened to do it. And you remember Jordan Martinook had the penalty shot and you Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. bucci: know it's all kinds of stuff going on there. There was a goal, but there was no goal, but then there was a penalty Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: shot. All kinds of shit was happening there. Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: And then finally they go to another overtime and Martinook gets the game winner. So that was a situation there with so much going on that, you know, Jankowski thinks he's gonna have a goal he's gonna talk to his grandkids about in fifty years, and now it's Geno Binda: Right. bucci: just wiped off the record, it just disintegrates into the ether. Mark Riley: I like the off side in given the time period, right? Like if they possess it or get a chance to move it out, that should kill that opportunity to yeah. bucci: That's an easy one, yeah. But I wonder even if maybe a five that and that just actually just popped in my head the five, six seconds. Cause obviously the rule was put into place because that playoff game in San Jose, I think there were three feet off sides. The guy walks in and I get it. That that's why we have the rule. We don't want that to happen. But if it's a three on two and you're that far off side and play continues and you're cycling, even if you don't lose possession, maybe seven seconds is enough time. If you don't score, and then then you no longer have really an advantage, right? It's Geno Binda: An advantage. Right. bucci: it's just in that immediate because the game is full of turnovers. It's changed it it goes back and forth in every zone. But if it it leads directly to a breakaway in a loan score, you know, five seconds, whatever it is, I think if they just make that then after five seconds they realize it's off the table. So the guys in the video room know, okay, and cause and they and they can time code it, they can time stamp it. Okay. This was off side at about 1621. The goal was scored at sixteen thirty one. Now that's seven seconds later. We don't even challenge. And this life goes on, right? So I wonder if the time thing and like I said, that just literally just popped in my head talking to you guys. But it that does seem like a kind of a common sense almost kind of thing to get to get fewer of these. Geno Binda: Right. I mean I did like this this year I in the Frozen Four, I was the video replay official with Jeff Fulton up in the booth. So bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: every time the the play came over the line, we're looking at it quick, right? And then we're like and if there was one or two that were offsides and we knew about it, we're like, get that fucking puck out of the zone now. Like get bucci: Right. Geno Binda: it out, get it out, get it out. And if they came in, we would already have the answers to the test, but we can't give it to them. We show it to and here, here you go. bucci: Right. Geno Binda: You guys make the answer you guys make the call. But yeah, like every time. Yeah. bucci: Yeah, and that's a good way. That that's good. Geno Binda: And you know, the the Mark Riley: Yeah, I I Geno Binda: the college used to have they used to have the change of possession, right? So if you had change of possession in the end zone, like that bucci: Right. Geno Binda: completely wiped it out. Like I don't know why we did away with that. Like that was I thought that worked out pretty good. And bucci: I think I I well I c I could see again this without seeing their reasoning or hearing their reasoning that what's change of possession, right? Now we're getting to that gray area. It's like when there's a delayed penalty, right? When Geno Binda: Right. Right. bucci: do I blow the whistle? Did he have it enough? Did he just tap it? Is it deflection a change of penalty? so that I that's probably just more gray area, right? We're just go we're Geno Binda: Exactly. bucci: we're layering on top of layers. So the time thing. To me, it seems to be a pretty good foolproof one because it's just time. Change of possession is subjective. Time is not subjective. Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. Right. bucci: It is time is math. And we know that. So the more math, the more exact we can get in, the better, because let's face it, you know, every call for a referee, basketball, football, now balls and strikes, that subjectiveness is going away. You know, we'll pretty sure I'm sure we'll have robot umpires, or not maybe not a robot umpire, but there'll be a beep in the umpire's ear. They'll be able to tell one beep strike, two two beeps, ball, boop, boop, ball, boop, strike. You know, they and they can do it almost simultaneously. They'll probably have a beep in their air from the ABS system. And Geno Binda: That's wild. bucci: for ball and of course and a and safe and out, you can always challenge those and get those right. You can call down again, same thing. You can call down in three seconds. I I don't know why they even do the challenge thing that they should just e they should look at every every call, just do it right away. They can do it literally within about ten, fifteen seconds while they're throwing the ball around. But so so yeah, so these are things I I I think we might be solving a lot of the world's problems right now. Geno Binda: I like it. We need you Mark Riley: I do too. Geno Binda: on the rules committee meetings. Fool them again. bucci: We're off to a good start, boys. Mark Riley: It's it's already it's already a successful day. I I wonder why we don't have that official in the booth to look at every play, like Gino, you just said, and if if something's there, then you you just call down. bucci: Well, the NHL does do that. The NHL looks at every Geno Binda: Yeah, they buzz them. bucci: goal. The only thing you can challenge in the and that's sometimes fans get confused here. The only thing you can challenge in the NHL is goal interference offside and did the puck go in the net or not? directly, right? That's the only thing everything else, high stick, gloved in. The NHL determines that right away. So they look at every single goal when the puck goes over the line. Their job is did it go over the line first, right? Did the puck completely cross the line? That's rule number one. Then from there, if there was a question about did he glove it in or did he stick it in? was the stick above his shoulders or the crossbar when he redirected it? All those, they look at every single one. and like you said, they're probably my ma I imagine they also look at the offsides right away if they see it, because they do the same thing. Greg, Gino, they say clip that, clip that zone entry, clip that let's Geno Binda: Mm-mm. Right. yeah, that's bucci: Let's get ahead of it, right? So Right. Right. And that's what they do too. Even though it's not up to them to call down. But you wonder if maybe they just should. Because they know Geno Binda: Yep. That's all we that's all we did all weekend. Clip that, clip that, clip that. It was awesome. Yeah. Yep. Right. Right. bucci: they can they can have a second team then. Hey, look at you guys look at that. We'll continue to watch the game. But you two guys look at that and you tell me, if this puck if they score here, and sometimes they score in five seconds, but sometimes it could be 40. And at least they're on top of it as soon as they can. Give them a good. 45 seconds and look at it as play is going on, and they can tell right away, no, we're good. No, that's offside. Or boy, it's close. We might need some time on this one. But so yeah, any way you can to go back to your original question about replay and the philosophy. And I think fans all extend it now. There's times there's too much, but there's sometimes there's no reviews. Like, you know, watching the Stealing Cup final, I I Dave Jackson's become a good friend, our NHL rules expert, Geno Binda: He was great. bucci: the former referee, and I text him all the time with different questions at one g one. Like I didn't realize what was the one, yeah, when the opposing team dumps it behind the red line and the Geno Binda: Yes. bucci: goalie gloves it and freezes it, his team can't change. I didn't realize Geno Binda: Correct. bucci: like that was a new one. Like I love learning new stuff like that because then I never forget it. Geno Binda: College hockey just adopted that. So like college hockey rules, yes, they just adopted that rule. Yes, correct. It was a rule bucci: They did. this year? Good to know. Geno Binda: change here. It was a rule change year. a lot of lot of different rule changes, but they aligned themselves with the NHL. So bucci: Okay, well a any other major ones I should know of? Geno Binda: well they added the trapezoid. yep. The yep, the trapezoid is in. bucci: they did. That's right. The trapezoids in now. I like fewer lines. The few the less the less lines the better for me. It it it I didn't see it being a big deal. Did you see it being a big deal, Gino, that the goalies would Geno Binda: No. bucci: go in the corner and affect offense or flow? That was the purpose in the NHL back in the day. They felt like it was because remember, goals was the issue in 02, 03, 04. So maybe Marty Brodeau can't go out there and play it. it does create some tension in a game when a guy can't go get it, and that's pretty cool. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: And maybe that'll happen, but It seems unnecessary to me, but you're right. Rule alignment is probably the best thing to do. This is the, you know, it's probably the the college hockey is going to become the second most talented league in the world. It's going to overtake Geno Binda: Correct. bucci: the KHL. It's going to overtake the AHL. It's going to overtake all the junior leagues in Canada. And it's going to be the second you know, most talented league in the world. So we probably should align as much as possible with with the with the NHL rules. Geno Binda: Right. And then they they adopted the you know, if you get a major and a minor under five minutes, you have the you know, it's the three minute rule. So it's a three minute power play. So like you take the two minutes off, the team gets the so they adopted Quincidental penalties. bucci: What was it b what what what was that before? Geno Binda: Quin it's you know, they just played f they just put the time up major minor. So now in the NHL if you have coincidental is under five minutes, you know, it's that three it's the three minute it's a three minute power play now instead of the five and the bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: two. bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: And and then the offsides we talked about, you know, possession and control coming over the line. Like that's gonna be another one. That bucci: That's a that's the tough one, man. Geno Binda: is it's really tough. And you know, Brian Murphy is is on those. He's the supervisor officials for Atlanta Cock for Hockey East. I'm with Atlanta hockey. And you know, he's he's been great and instrumental, like with the rules committee with the college hockey, bringing the NHL rules into the college game. And he's been bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: a very big figure. We meet once a month. the rules committee meets, he's on that now. and we meet as supervisors and everything else. And Jeff Fulton just took another position with the NCAA and he's he's trying to revamp things and, you know, get all all conferences kinda on the same page, so we're all aligned heading into the tournament, right? bucci: Is there any is there any major role, Gino, that's Geno Binda: That's right. bucci: not quite aligned yet that you'd like to see aligned or you can think of off the top of your head like any left? Geno Binda: not that I can think of off the top of my head. Like like bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: the the the one the one tricky one, that the women's the the duh the women WCHA conference, they adopted the high stick rule, so you can high stick it anywhere on the ice. So like bucci: I like that. Geno Binda: so the the they're doing that again as a it was a trial trial bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: run rule or whatever. They got that. Just their conference games can can allow high sticking in every in any zone at any play. bucci: I like I actually I with facial protection, it's not really a dangerous play. The stick is usually still, it's just trying to make a little deft kind of a play. I'd I'd be okay with that, tell you the truth. And I guess the other one too, Gino, Geno Binda: Right. It's almost as good. bucci: is is that, you know, obviously hand pass you can't ha hand pass anywhere in in college where NHL you can still hand pass in the defensive zone. Or are we still that Geno Binda: yeah, permit it's pr hand pass, permitted hand passes that are initiated and complete in the defensive zone. yeah, right. So yeah, not to create a competitive bucci: So that has changed that's a change then. So so that so that's Mark Riley: Thank thank God. Geno Binda: advantage in dangerous areas, yeah. Mark Riley: I always mess that one up. I do. Every time I'm doing a college game, I'm like, shit, can they hand pat no. Now now I can Yeah. Geno Binda: Permitted hand passes it initiated completed in the defensive zone. Right. bucci: I know, I I do the same thing. Well which way is it now? I'm overthinking this. Geno Binda: So that's a that's gonna happen a lot this year. Like early on. Like we're we have, you know Yeah. Exactly. That's gonna happen a lot. bucci: where ref referees might blow the whistle and like, shit. So hand passes Mark Riley: Ha ha ha ha. bucci: now allowed, defensive zone, college hockey. I gotta get this email. Mark Riley: Ha ha. Geno Binda: the rule new rules are out. I'll send it to you. bucci: All right. Geno Binda: Yeah, the the rule books yeah, it's completed. it the printout edition is not ready yet. but bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: the the rules are out and available. what else? bucci: All right. And also, well, I guess the and I guess the other one too, Gino, is shoot the puck over the glass automatic two. Is that also change or no? So that that is still a difference in the league, which I like. I I think Geno Binda: there's a no no change no change situation, I think. I bucci: it's too penal of a situation, especially for a young student athlete to who's just trying Geno Binda: Right. bucci: to clear the you know when it's intentional, when it's not. Geno Binda: Right. Absolutely. And you know, with the goalies doing too, that used to be an automatic thing too. bucci: Yeah, that's a tough one too. That was a tough one. Yeah. Good stuff. Mark Riley: That was that was a call that that caused Donnie Granado to try to attack me after the first period in Green Geno Binda: Mm. Mark Riley: Bay in the game three of the final of the USHL. I called his goalie for shooting the puck out of the rink on purpose. And that penalty in the first period sent him over the edge and he attacked me in the runway. His owner had to grab him. My boss grabbed me. We were both mid punch. It was pretty wild. But that call there, the goalie looked bucci: Wow. Fun. Wow. Mark Riley: There was two guys coming down and he fired it over the glass. It was like obvious to me. Yeah. Of bucci: it it looked obvious? Nice. Mark Riley: course, I think I that was like his sixth penalty of the period, but maybe that had something to do with it. But so but bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: So the the the one change I do like and you know we do it anyway as just a a form of practice, but now it's kind of in there where referees can't just be run into the booth looking at anything they they choose, right? Like, that might have been a major. Let me let me just go bucci: Yeah, yeah. Geno Binda: let me go look this time, and then you're not going to look for the other one that was kinda questionable. And the coach like, Why you forcing me to challenge when you just went in and looked? So it's like, bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: well, it's a little different, but it's not quite different. So There's coaches are forced to challenge for us to get into the booth and we're reviewing all majors anyway. Yes. bucci: They they are. Okay. Good, good. Geno Binda: And you know, like there's ways around it too. Linesman comes in, I got a potential major here. So now they're in the booth looking at it, right? So there's ways to go around certain things, but you know, we preach to force the challenge. If you if four officials don't have it, why are we running into the booth? Right? Like it's hockey, we just missed it, we're moving on. If the coach wants to Challenge it, challenge it. If not, I'm dropping the park and we're we're rolling, right? bucci: Yep. I like it. Mark Riley: The the only other change I'd like to see in college and I've said it for a long time is half shields. I think we gotta get rid of the cages. I think it it'll change the game and it'll Geno Binda: That'll never happen. Mark Riley: make it more aligned with pro. bucci: My only feeling about that is that most of most of these guys won't play in the NHL, even though most of them think they might, but most won't. They're student athletes. If they get like a major dental type of injury with a puck in the mouth and they can't go to class for four weeks, or they can't obviously they could couldn't play for six weeks. They have a limited schedule as it is. So you miss 15 games, you miss half the season. that's part of your development. You need to be on the ice to develop and to train. And if you get hit with a puck in the mouth, you won't be able to train, your cardio goes down. You almost have a lost season. So I just think in that age group, and I get it, Mark, and probably in the long run, it might be better for development. That would be the coach's argument. But in the whole, yeah, there will be a situation where someone gets a brutal mouth injury from a puck or a stick, and they're gonna miss time and it's gonna be painful and it's gonna be an injury, and their development will be affected because of lost time. But the way everybody else plays and Everything. So that's always been my issue with that. Is is that worth it for so many of these kids? and also you know, I don't see guys running around like hits from behind aren't the the college did a great job. They were way more aggressive Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: than the NHL from hits from behind. They took that out really well. We don't see really terrible hits like that occasionally because it's fast game, and we don't see guys really running around chirping, they're pretty disciplined. The coaches had these guys. You know, on a pretty good leash and they play discipline, hard, fast hockey. But I d I don't think that that's and and that's always been the argument, right? In terms of half shield, because then guys can't run around as much. But I don't see that. Do you guys see that in Geno Binda: I I don't. I mean they they take some liberties here and there, but bucci: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: I'm in like after whistles. Mark Riley: I think a lot of the hits are high. I think a lot of the hits are high. And I think kids are tougher with a cage on and their stick is more apt to come up when they're hitting and you know, than if there's a half shield. Like I'm not gonna punch you in the face after a whistle if I know I'm gonna get punched actually in the face. But I'm quick to hit you with a cage because I know go ahead and hit me. I don't care. And I think that like that's where Geno Binda: that's a ruling. Mark Riley: it makes a big difference. You know, you see you know, you see it. Geno Binda: They cleaned up that rule too. Mark Riley: We used to see it in the East Coast League when kids would come up from college and they'd have a half shield on now and they're running around like an asshole and they get their ass kicked and they realize, I can't play like this anymore. And I know that was, you know, a long time ago, but it's still not really, I don't think, that different. The hits I see are a lot of high hits and we don't call because they're normal, but they shouldn't be normal. And the you know, that's just me as one referee. Geno Binda: Yeah, you won't see it just well, for it has nothing to do with the play. It's all insurance, right? Like what you said, if Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: someone gets clipped in the in the in the mouth, like bucci: Right. Geno Binda: the the bill for the NCAA insurance policy will be through the roof. And they've it they've explored it. bucci: Right. Good point. Yeah. Geno Binda: They've explored it, and that's that's the probably the main reason why they'll they they'll never go to it. bucci: Does but Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: yeah, you're right. That it that is the biggest reason why. Mine is more about the kid missing two months of school or or development. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: and like I said, I just and again, if there's data that those high hits you talked about, Mark, cause more concussions or something. But the fact if the stick gets up a little bit because of the false thing, it's not really a big deal in terms of this little deflections and nicks here. Now, obviously, if it's a blunt force, but those are easy five minute penalties to call, you know when that is a blunt force. Yeah, you'd think. Mark Riley: You would think. You Geno Binda: Right. Yeah. Mark Riley: would think. bucci: And and and again there's obviously no fighting in college. Well at least not no fighting. We saw some fights last year in in the BU game and Geno Binda: yeah, we did. bucci: and that was a good one. I was like, Wow, the people just did not see that. But again, we can't really have that because of the size disparities and the young players. College hockey's so young now. Again, you you don't want these hundred and fifty pound freshmen coming in and have to worry about getting fed knuckles, you know. And so I just wonder also, Gino, in terms of the rules, if in the future if there is that like that fight we saw last year. at the BU game, like does that result in like a maybe a three game suspension? I understand you might get kicked out of that game, but you you really don't want to start seeing that in col it's entertaining. Again, we anybody who a hockey fan loves a good fight, but man, Geno Binda: Right. bucci: you can't have bad results and then what do you do then? Geno Binda: Yeah, you can't have that in college hockey, but like the the fighting rule is a DQ, right? So you're off that game and the next automatically and usually if it's a bucci: Right. I wan I wonder do we add another one just to really make sure that these kids, you know Geno Binda: Supplemental, normally they probably would add add that third one. It depends on the conference. bucci: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: But you know, everybody kind of wanna clean this up and they'll probably make an example out of the first people that do it. bucci: Right. Geno Binda: and then the fighting rule, they did they did clean up the language. So, like, you bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: know, one punch used to constitute a fight. So like we're in a scrum and I give you like a sucker punch or like bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: a little like is that a is that a punch or is that jab? Like you see those all the time, right? And it's like, well, that's bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: a punch, and then this guy got thrown out for that, and it's just like, bucci: Yeah, it's tough. Geno Binda: right? So now they they kinda clean that up a little bit where, you know, the one little jabs, you know, whatever, that's you you can keep the kid in the game. It's the multiple it's the multiple right. bucci: Yeah. Double roughing or yeah. Geno Binda: It's you know, that you can get creative two and ten and things of that nature, right? bucci: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: and sit for a little while and think about it. And, you know. bucci: Yeah, because you want confrontation. You want that emotion. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: That gives the game juice. I I call so many NHL games on ESPN where there's not one confrontation, much Geno Binda: Right. bucci: less, and maybe two hits. It's like, man. And so if it is three, two, these fans are paying 200 bucks and they're not really screaming a lot. That's the point of going to sports is to kind of get all your frustrations and emotions out and scream. That's why the playoffs are great, because they just walk in the door screaming. They don't even care Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: what happens. So, but in a regular season, 84 games now, you know, you you want a good product. You want to justify that ticket price. And so some shoves and some pushes, like you said, a couple jabs, you know, you know, whether it's Chris Rooney or Wes Macaulay, they know when that's nothing, when it's a two minute roughing. You know, like you said in college, if a guy does it two, three times, give him a 10. Like don't, you know, don't penalize a team. Just give him a 10 first. Tell the coach, next one's a two. You know, let's go. You guys I'm okay. I'll let you guys go a little bit. You can push and shove, you can say bad words. I'm not gonna be the ultra morality police here, but let's just, you know, have some self-awareness. And that's part of the development process of the of college is to for the referees to be a part of that development and say, hey, there's that's dumb. That's okay, that's good. You're I that's okay. I'll I'll let you there. And you can you can scream at me a little bit, I'll scream back, but then let's get it go. Let's get go, you know, let's move on. Like they can learn how to talk to a referee, how to deal with the referee, what to let out. What not to let out? And when do I penali when when does it hurt my team? When does it just hurt me? And so those are kind of and that's what's I'm sure part of the fun of being the referee is you get to interact with these young men. You kind of you want Geno Binda: Absolutely. bucci: to kind of be almost like a mentor to them emotionally in the game. Cause we all played, we all love, we know it's the most frustrating sport that will make you do the stupidest things you've ever done in your life. It's all for all of us have happened on a hockey, on a in a hockey rink, on a sheet of ice. Playing ball hockey, whatever it is, we do the dumbest things. Why did I cross check that guy in the neck? What was I thinking? But that's what the game does to us. It's a blood Geno Binda: Right. bucci: sport. So there's gun that's some of that is the cost of doing business, but you can Geno Binda: No out of bounds. bucci: but you can manage it a little bit, I think, with the boys to help them out. Geno Binda: Absolutely. I mean communication's huge and if like you know, you build a report with those guys, it's it's great. they're all professional. They they and they're all smart, smart hockey players too, right? And they they get bucci: Yeah. With a Geno Binda: it and they know. They're already telling you the penalty before it even happens, right? They they bucci: Right. Geno Binda: know they they watch video every day, like these D one players, they're very smart and you know, the coaches are even bucci: yeah. Cream of the crop. Geno Binda: and the coaches are even more educated now than ever, right? They're like even I know in my conference, everything I send to the officials, I send to the coaches. So they're getting everything too. So when they're going into the weekend, they're expecting, hey, embellishment was a big thing coming up. And it just bucci: Yeah, the days of you know the days of Jack Parker going to the referees' rooms in between periods. There's no video, there's no Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: there's no evidence, there's no instruction week after week about this is a penalty, this isn't. So Geno Binda: Right. bucci: so many times you'll see a David Carl or somebody say, Yeah, that's that's a penalty. Geno Binda: Bye. bucci: That's it. You know, and you see it during the re video replay reviews. And things like that. like, yeah, he got him. So yeah, Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: and that way we we become more civilized in that way. And again, Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: that goes back to being like anything. You want to elevate every part of life, whether it's your local government, whether it's the guys who pave the highways. It's you want to get better and better and raise the level of excellence. That's what life is all about. Why what are we here if we're not trying to get better at everything? And that's too true with sports. But then again, add that component of gambling. Then it really makes everything hyper focused on this is the way, this is the rules, and this is the boundaries, and this and these are the and even the scrum rules, because those are very subjective. Let's face it. Sometimes a West Macaulay will call a two, and sometimes we'll take both. It's not the same Geno Binda: Right. bucci: every single time. But that's what a good referee will do. He'll take the temperature. Okay, it's early first period. If if I do give that team a two and they give up a goal, they got fifty-seven minutes to get it back. If they can't, that's Geno Binda: Right. bucci: on them. But I'm not gonna call it with two minutes to go in the game of game six. If a guy, you know, but if he gets his stick and he hits them in the nose, like that's gonna be a penalty, right? So it's that and that's why you want that's why these same refs for getting the finals every year, because the NHL trusts them Geno Binda: Neil did bucci: that they're they're not gonna make that totally awful play that's gonna be on. Geno Binda: Trust right. bucci: you know, first take and all these opinion shows the next day all day long. They're gonna make the right play. When in doubt, really don't call anything. Like that's probably the best thing, as opposed to overcalling in that situation. Geno Binda: That was that was pretty good right there. That was really good information. Mark Riley: Yeah. Chris Chr. Yeah. Chris, Chris and Wes for our money are the best two in the league. I mean, by bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: none. Geno Binda: yeah. Mark Riley: And I Andy Van Helleman was my boss in the East Coast League. He used to tell us referee the first period as if it was the third period, you know, and then when you get to the third period, you're not going to get yourself in trouble because bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: you your standard hasn't changed just because it's a one-one game in the third period. bucci: Right. Mark Riley: If you didn't call you know what I mean? And that was I thought that was some of the best advice because then you don't get yourself in trouble. When you call that cross check and overtime that you have to call, it's like, well, there it was. It was the same in the first period as it was now, you know. But bucci: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: the refereeing in the NHL, your thoughts, because you you have the Chris Rooney's, the West McCauley's, they're next level. And then And you have like, you know, maybe five, six of those guys. And then f for me, there's a chasm to the newer guys that are coming up that really shouldn't be there because they don't have the experience. You what are your thoughts on that? 'Cause we ask everyone the model they use now, Walcom's model, is grab X players and throw right in. And it just isn't working. And and i bucci: Right. Mark Riley: like what it's gotta change at some point 'cause these guys are gonna retire. bucci: Right. Exactly. I mean Wes is definitely in a window. Chris has probably got a good eight left. Wes might be in a four year wind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Five. But again, that that that paycheck, that's a good paycheck. It's hard Mark Riley: That's generous. He told me he told me five. yeah, it is. Geno Binda: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is. bucci: it's hard to say goodbye to that paycheck at fifty seven. Like I gotta get I gotta get to Social Security. Then I get then I gotta get to Medicare, you know. and and like I said, Wes is probably yeah, that's a that's a well obviously I'm sure what w One thing which is unique for hockey than any other sport is you gotta be able to skate, right? And that's you have to anybody, you know, most obviously to be in reasonable shape to be a football referee. You gotta be able to run, but everybody can run. but skating is that's a skill in itself, and you gotta be able to keep up. And so that's in a feel for the game. I'm sure that's what Steven is thinking. And Steven was a great skater as a referee, too. That's one reason Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. bucci: why he was a good referee, he could really move. And but as you know, that's only half the battle. You gotta be able to see it. You gotta be able to see through the mayhem, right? It's difficult down there at ice level. These guys are getting faster and faster. they're hyper competitive, they're going 25 miles an hour. meanwhile, you're also skating while trying to watch, you know, eleven guys, and you have you know a little bit of help from one other set of eyes, but that's it. And so it's it's tough, and I'm sure it's stressful. These guys are refereeing 73 games a year. they're going and going and going. so but you're right, there's times like what are they looking at? What are they seeing in those situations? And how do you how do you figure that out? So I guess yeah, I Geno Binda: Experience. bucci: guess they turn the question to you. What do you what what's the best way to make a referee? Is it a God-given gift? A lot of it is personality, demeanor is a big part of it, presence is a big part of it, but you still have to have an eye. on seeing the play and making that quick twitch brain. Now we have we talk about quick twitch muscles in sports, but there's also quick twitch brains. and that's what we need for referees. We need quick twitch people. So maybe there's a way to come up with some sort of computer, you know, program model that can that can yep. Geno Binda: There is there is one out there. Austin Rourke, who just got hired by the National Hockey League, scored the highest on there. He's the he was an American League referee. And, bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: you know, I I met with these I forget the name of the program, but I met with the people and they basically just show, you know, plays after plays after plays, and it's like a button you click when when an infraction happens and then like the you know, what then a question comes up what was the what was the infraction? And it's like your reaction time. every video, right? And how your reaction time is going as you're watching a play, right? Sometimes you might not even see the infraction. Now you gotta watch it again. there it is over there in the corner. Right. bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: So it's like I'm there there there are tools and, you know, things to, you know, make your, you know, reaction time a little better. bucci: And not only tools to train, but tools to identify. Like sometimes Geno Binda: Right. bucci: this this person just can't do it. They can't react Geno Binda: Right. bucci: quickly enough. They can't they that they're and cause I'm sure, and you would know better than me, you guys. Like I imagine you yeah, I imagine sometimes you call penalties with your peripheral vision, right? Almost. Like you Geno Binda: Yes. Yep. bucci: have to be able to have a little bit of peripheral vision where I think I saw him tripping, but I was actually, it was more peripheral or I was on my way. And some guys are probably good at that and some guys are probably like, I don't know, and then it's too late, right? Then well, although I know that was a penalty, but I don't think I was looking it was more of a peripheral vision penalty. Geno Binda: Right, you guess a little bit, Mark Riley: Yeah, you gotta Geno Binda: especially in the one man, yeah. But four man, yeah. bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: And you gotta trust your gut too. You gotta you bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: like we tell guys trust your gut. But for me, the the model was there back in the day. You know, you started in the USHL, you know, Chris Chris did this, myself, Gino, you did it. You you started in the USHL juniors, central league, then you moved up to the East Coast League, then you went to the American League, and then you got hired by the NHL. So by the time the NHL hired Geno Binda: Variants. Mark Riley: you, you had Thousands of game experience, thousands of reps, thousands of situations. And in the minors, as we all know, crazy shit happens. So bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: you like there by the time you get there, you will there's you've seen bucci: You've seen it all. Yeah. Mark Riley: it all. There's nothing that's gonna happen that's gonna be like, holy shit, I've never seen that happen before. And when you when you have all those reps and all that experience, when you get there, one you you you know what to expect, but the game slows down. You know, the the game really does or can slow down for really good refs and they see things that an bucci: sure. Mark Riley: average person or a guy with only a year or two experience won't see. And and then you you know, you tack on the communication piece. And, you know, like you said, presence, personality, all those things come into play that you develop. I was a different ref my first year in the USHL than I was my fifth year in the East Coast League. And I was a complete dickhead. my first year. I was a Boston kid that thought I knew everything, telling everyone to fuck off. I bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: told I told Hastings, he was coaching Omaha. I told him during play, why don't you fucking blow me? Like and when I look back, Geno Binda: Jesus. Mark Riley: I go, What the hell was I thinking? You know, my boss heard bucci: Thank you. Mark Riley: me, Zingerman heard in the stands. I said it so loud. Geno Binda: Zenga. Mark Riley: But you know, that was my first year in by my seventh year of pro hockey, I'm I'm A completely different communicator. So when bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: you get hired to the NHL and then fired a week later, like I did, you you know how to communicate with people. You know that, you know, John Marks was on the bench in Charlotte. He was in the hockey hall of fame. I'm gonna tell him to shut up. No, bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: I'm gonna listen to him and and I'm gonna learn from him while I'm learning how to do this craft. bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: And then when I get there, I know what I'm doing. And if you look at the Chris Rooney's and the Wes McCauley's and the Daniel Rawks, they all went through that process. And that's why they're so friggin' good. And bucci: Mm. Mark Riley: I think that's what's missing now. And I get it. You you want guys who played a high level. I think playing a high level does help you as a referee. I don't think you have to play the American League to be a good ref. Chris Rooney played in high school. He didn't even play his whole high school career. You know, so you don't have to play at a pro level to be a good ref, but you do have to work your way up through the system. And that's bucci: Hmm. Mark Riley: what's missing. Now, for me, anyway, this is, you know, from personal experience and what I see on the ice, it it that's what should happen. Cause like that program you just talked about, Gino, you can score real high on that. But if you can't talk to a coach or communicate, well then you know what I mean? Like Geno Binda: right. Well skate, myth. Mark Riley: those will help, but it it it's like bucci: Does the NHL do anything in terms of supporting to help pay referees better? Like in c like do they make any financial contribution to leagues to say, maybe we give these guys 30 grand more a year. We'll get better people and we can and they can focus on getting better by training and really memorizing the rule book, give them multiple video situations on their off days, things like that. Geno Binda: Well, it basically the through pr the pro the pro ranks, right? Like all the like nothing as far as like youth goes or anything like that, or junior programs. Like yeah, but I think I think bucci: No, I understand that. But you would think college you'd think they would help pay college referees. Geno Binda: no. Mark Riley: Yeah, no, they don't. bucci: Yeah. And and I and identify a path. So this is the path. We want this guy to start in college, then go to the Americ Geno Binda: Right. Well that's exactly. bucci: you know, whatever it is. Mark Riley: There used to be that path. Geno Binda: Right. That's kinda like it it used to be a path, but like bucci: Okay. Geno Binda: now they're just sticking these kids into, you know, the East Coast League or the the American League and then, you know, they're picking out of there. And the people are failing left and right and some are succeeding, right? And they're doing it at the pro level. So like, you know, I think, you know, the junior leagues and the junior programs would be a good start for those just to get started, see where they're bucci: Yeah. Well. Geno Binda: at and You know, and then and then move up into the college ranks and then the southern pro leagues and then the East Coast League and, you know, the US H L and wherever you fall, right? bucci: Yeah, because I mean yeah, it just behooves everybody to have good referees. And if you really took a long term effect, okay, we're gonna identify some people, give them like a three year contract at age twenty-two, twenty-three. And then at the death like at ESPN, they hire these young people out of college, they're called production assistants. And the old model was they show up, they work for ten months, and then the the group of bosses, the the coordinating producers, get together and they vote on these people. What about Timmy? What about Caitlin? Geno Binda: Right. bucci: What about Lee? What do you how what do they do well? What don't I think she's got a great future. He's, I don't not sure. I think maybe he might be worth keeping, but this guy, no, no good. And then you can start over again. And then you go, okay, now we're gonna do this. Is then you have a five-year contract. Like you said, you go do college for four years. You're gonna do college for four years. We're gonna pay you a pretty good salary, whatever that is, at a young age, mid-20s, and we're gonna train you, and then maybe you might get a chance to do a U16 tournament summer, right? And they really have a mapped out thing where you're paying these guys a full-time job with benefits. And the the goal is to create a NHL referee at age 30. Now, sometimes a kid will make it at 27. Sometimes it might take, but if if you have like a good long-term eight, seven, you know, some guys might join in in the middle and might take a little longer, but if you really have a plan and a benchmark and a way to create as many Chris Rooney's and Wes McCauley's as we can, then the sport's gonna be better for you. Geno Binda: That's what Chris Rooney Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: was. That they had a trainee program way back when, bucci: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: right? So like he worked every single like like the, you know, Canadian junior leagues, all these different things. Like they flew bucci: Yep. Geno Binda: all over the friggin' place and just worked a million games and got all sorts of experience, right? And now there's so much money invested in all these leagues and these conferences and just junior league and that junior league. It's like, I want my refs. I want my guys. I want our things. It's like, why is this guy coming in for a weekend and then he's gone and then we don't see him again? It's like I'm well well this is what we we we're not doing this for, you know, this. bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: We're doing this for another reason and we're trying to build a you know, you're you're getting you're gaining a good official. You're gaining something out of it. And, you know, a a good product is what the end end result is. Is in I don't know, it's like th they they they used to have that, but it's gone. Mark Riley: They well, Gino, they they they did have that. We we Chris was one of the six. Six of us the NHL sent six of us out to the Western Hockey League training camp and we and we pissed off all the Canadians 'cause we were better at most everything than them bucci: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: with the physical testing and stuff. But and then we did send us out for two trips out west and work, you know, in Oregon and Washington and Von Roadie. He was the man. you know we'd we'd stay with him and he'd drive us around and that was part of that development. You know, they identified the six of us. We went out there two years in a row. And so again, it was it was there. And it's funny, you mentioned the salary part. I think one thing that's missing is back in the day, like we were scraping by. In Iowa, I had Chris and I had to have part-time jobs to supplement the three tw like $300 game fee we were getting. Right. They put bucci: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: us up in an apartment, but that was it. And you struggled financially, you know, for six, seven years, so that when you got hired, that 85,000 that you started with or whatever was a huge deal. You know, that bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: you you put the time in and you proved that you were willing to sacrifice everything to get there. And then when you got there, you know, it it was all worthwhile. And that's missing too. You pluck a guy. You know, from the American League that's making five hundred bucks a week or six hundred bucks a week and tell we're gonna give you a hundred and twenty grand, you know, where's the work there? Like, you know, do I have to get better? I already got it it's like the whole when athletes get paid and then their performance goes down. It's like, well, where's that commitment? You know, bucci: Yeah, it's a fine line between giving them a a way of life where they can really invest in something and just yeah, and and like like athletes, you said some respond differently to money. Some it doesn't matter how much you give They're gonna be the same competitive beast no matter how much money you give them. Others will lighten up a bit, no doubt. Mark Riley: Yeah, it's it's a it's an interesting conversation that d you know, I think Terry Frazier co Geno Binda: I we Mark Riley: hold they were on and they kinda have the same thing. bucci: It it seems like it's just not invested in. It's such an important part of all sports, the referee for the flow, the legitimacy, the enjoyment of the game. You think you think they would invest a little more money in that part of it. It and it seems like they don't. I could be wrong, but it seems like they don't quite have a plan or a thought process to really train and develop high level referees. They just think it's like it's an afterthought almost. Geno Binda: It is. And you know, like Mark Riley: And and other sports other sports still do it. Like Tim Sheeta was on and he talked about how many years he spent in the minor leagues, you know, before they got called up, right? Geno Binda: Yeah, the baseball umpires have a good good road. Mark Riley: Basketball does the same thing. Football, they identify college refs that are good and then move, you know, so the other sports have that model that hockey did have at one point and just got away from it. So it's it's it's interesting to see what'll happen in the next few years when some of these guys start retiring. Geno Binda: Yeah, I mean Johnny Grant, he runs the the USHL officials and he was a former NHL linesman. He was, you know, hired and then let go under like amateur contract. But like he's in charge of the USHL now and we talk all the time and we're we're trying to build that path for these kids. Like what what is the road? Is it do you go out to the USHL and then to, you know, get into pro hockey and then you know, that kind of stuff. And I'm at a I'm at a spot where we have junior leagues that are, you know, not as good as, you know, the USHL and North American League and things of that nature where we're developing these young kids where like I had a seventeen year old kid work my junior final this year, right? So like those those type of kids, you know, they they leave us and they go out to the USHL and then, you know, we had a kid out there work their final this year. he also works college hockey for us and he just got hired by the East Coast League. So like That's kinda like the path that we're trying to build for these kids, coming up now. And, you know, get to the USHL and get out to the you know, get hired by a pro league. That's the ultimate goal is to get to the East Coast League and then American League and so on. and now it's just get to the NHL combined, hopefully someone sees ya, and then they pluck you for the East Coast League and the American League. And like that's kinda how They're doing it a lot, which bucci: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: is kind of frustrating. And they just go up there and skate and play. And, you know, they're just plucking out people and it's all about, you know, relationships and who's who and that kind of stuff. So there's a mixed bag of things. We're trying to we're trying to build a road for these kids, kinda like what we had, but it's it's very difficult. bucci: Mm. And of course the video replay thing does in a lot of ways take some of the sting out out of being a referee. You'll you have a fallback, you have backup, even like the high stick. Wait, that was his teammate's stick, not your stick. Like how many Geno Binda: Yeah, right. bucci: more penalties are we gonna do before there's review for just about every call? And then and maybe that's part of somebody's professional leagues. you know, thought process on developing even spending on refereeing and paying these guy the more rid video reviews, the less they'll probably get paid. Right. And Geno Binda: Yeah, right. bucci: so if I'm a referee or I want to get in the business or and want to be and I love refereeing in college. I did all the intramural sports. I loved refereeing. It was just part of my personality. I could I had thick skin. I could take it. I could give it back. I had a bit of a referee presence about me. So I loved it. And again, I got like six bucks a game because it was pizza money, needed pizza money at college. And but and so I really enjoyed it. It was almost is it was second best to playing. Playing is the best, but referee was right there. You're in a game, you're part of the game, you're you're you can feel the juices, you're exerting yourself physically. So, like you know, you're moving as an athlete in in a certain way, and you're using your mind, which I always like love love to do, playing sports and So you just wonder the more more replay we have is all these sport all these owners, their ultimate goal is to literally have no humans call the game. It's a computer program. It's c you know, it's driven that way. Geno Binda: Yes. bucci: And that man, you lose a lot of the entertainment factor. Just think of those great baseball arguments between umpires and and managers Geno Binda: Right. bucci: that we no longer have. Just th they were lore. They were mythic. They were just You know, the Lou Pinellas and the Billy Martins, that was part of the fabric of baseball. You know, that g part of the emo part of the show. And it is a show. And and wet, Geno Binda: Right? Entertainment. bucci: you know, Wes puts on a show and and Chris puts on a show with that thick Boston accent when he calls these penalties to missive, you know, dismissively with his microphone. It's awesome. That's part of the show. Geno Binda: Ha ha bucci: And we we can't lose fact that this is not this is not a prop for people to gamble. and and to buy shirts and whatever and say we're number one. It's entertainment, it's a show and you can't forget the entertainment factor is is the king. Otherwise the sport will lose what it once had and it won't be what it was. And y you gotta be careful there. Mark Riley: Now you're in the entertainment business. bucci: You're right. Mark Riley: and speaking about tracks, I mean, you started on the Cape, you went to Providence, then you got to ESPN. bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: Talk about putting your time in, right? bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: you know, it and you i developing as a sportscaster, you know, that's something that I mean you you're one of the best at it now. I mean, I I think, you know, find me someone that doesn't love John Butchergrass. I I don't and I'm not saying that Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: to pump you up. I just You know, I told people you were bucci: A line is long and it moves quickly. Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: well, I told people you were coming on, they were No way, you have Butchie? Really? To ask them about chicken palm. You know, it's like bucci: Ha ha. Mark Riley: you know Geno Binda: Here it is. Mark Riley: right. It was bound to come up. But talk a little bucci: Yep. Mark Riley: bit about your experience going because I went I actually went to school for television sports casting bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: back in the day, and I actually interviewed at ESPN for a PA spot. You mentioned that, it's kind bucci: There you go. Mark Riley: of funny. But I wanted to be in front of the camera and I think they knew it because I didn't have any answers for them with you know who was going to be the MVP bucci: Right. Mark Riley: of the NBA. And I'm like, I have no fucking idea. I want to sit and, you know, look good and read the sports. Geno Binda: Just read it. Mark Riley: You know. bucci: Right. Mark Riley: but talk a little bit about your journey because it it it's it's cool when people put the time in and then experience the success. bucci: Yeah, it's been great. I mean, you know, I I grew up my parents were both born and raised in South Boston. So they Geno Binda: Yes. bucci: were they were city kids who moved out to Pittsburgh in their late twenties, and that's where they started a family and they ended up staying there for 30 years. So they're the only relatives who left New England for me. So just my mom and dad and us in western Pennsylvania and then eastern Ohio. And I played every sport I could play. I followed sports like any kid of the seventies and eighties, just so intensely. I cut out every box score of the 1979 Pittsburgh Pirates out of the newspaper and they happened to win the World Series that year. I still have that where I would tape it out, Geno Binda: That's cool. bucci: scotch tape it to this, you know, school notebook and write a couple notes underneath, and they end up winning the World Series. And you know, I I made a imaginary baseball game once with two tape recorders, one with the crowd roaring and and me, and I wrote I I I it was a playoff game between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Imaginary, futuristic playoff game. And I I obviously I kept the score first with the end. And I just I called the whole game two hours long. And so I, you know, looking back, I realized I this kind of dawned on me later. I was always a sports fan. Yeah. And I played and I watched, but I also was also a fan of television and production, of producing things. NFL films had a big impact on me, watching David Letterman or the Tonight Show and Johnny Carson and And like I I I had that in me. I didn't realize that until later that I was also a a fan of television and producing things. I like an end result. that's how my brain kind of works. Like you get yourself a dumpster, I will come to your house, we will empty your house. Cause I that's instant gratification. I just flew out to Ohio and did that with a high school buddy. you know, his brother passed away, his parents, they had 50 years of stuff in his house, and he's the last surviving. member of the family. And so we just I go, Mike, we're going to work, kid. And we emptied that house in a day and a half. And I I love that. So that's what producing something, a a a video or a piece would Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. bucci: do. And so yeah, parents gave me a tape recorder. I would broadcast games, turn the sound down, play disc jockey, do whatever. Made a home movie with a home video camera once. And And so once I realized I wasn't gonna be a pro athlete, I went to a small college that in Ohio that that had a TV and a radio and a newspaper school newspaper, and I did all three of those things and yeah, I just got lucky on Cape Cod. my first job was at Cape Eleven News. Martha Cusick was the boss, her dad Fred was the Bruins play-by-play Hall of Fame announcer. Weird Geno Binda: That's right. Yes. Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: coin like hockey's been with every step of the way as it turned out. Like I grew up loving every sport. hockey was always that one that was really because I was the one kid who knew hockey on the block. Like they everyone in America, most boys back then, basketball, baseball, football. I was just that freak who also liked hockey because my parents were from Boston. And so I grew up with the sport. Could always skate, collected hockey cards, the whole thing. And so that's where my TV journey started, making 18,000 a year for five years with a wife and two kids at the back end. And and then got to pr my last day at Cape 11 News was a Friday. Started on a Monday at Channel 12 in Providence. Again, hockey's a part of the equation. Go to my first frozen four, BU one in 1995, Chris Jury, Mike Greer, that whole team. Chris O'Sullivan, PK Suban's best friend. And and and so again, Geno Binda: Right? Yep. Sally. Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: I was there Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: for two years. Last day on a Friday, get hired by ESPN October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety-six, first day of Monday. So I got hired Cape Eleven News August of 1989, 30 minutes from where I am here in Plymouth, Massachusetts. And I've worked now, it'll be 37 years, August 20, 21st. Actually, we we just passed it. So actually, yeah, 37 years almost to the day we're sitting here, I got hired at Cape Eleven News and I haven't missed a paycheck. I've had three jobs, and the two times I've changed jobs, my last day was a Friday, and my first day was a Monday. So that's extraordinarily lucky. It's a grind. But it's I've always been a self-improver, try to get better. And again, hockey at ESPN. I start doing NHL Tonight pretty, you know, about a year and a half in, I start doing NHL Tonight, and that becomes a part of my life. And then my kids start playing. I start writing a column on ESBN.com. I wrote for 16 years. I wrote a book with Keith Jones. I start doing NCAA tournament hockey in 2006. Start doing the Frozen Four in 2013. We get hockey back after a 17-year absence. I start calling games. I call World Cup in 2016. calling Stanley Cup playoff games, you know, all over all over North America. And you know, been doing Sports Center in the middle all this time, 30 years at ESPN. So it's been it it's been such an amazing lucky journey. And like I said, 37 years now, almost to the day. And it's it's just it's brought from a love of sports, a love of trying to get better. And just producing you know, media stuff, whether it's writing, talking, or on television or a little bit of radio, just that has an end product that up that you can look intangibly touch. Like I said, that's how my brain kinda works. I like to make stuff, create stuff that we can actually see and touch. Geno Binda: Now you're the voice of the new NHL, right? bucci: Yeah, the NHL twenty seven, the EA sports video game. That's another yeah, I forgot all about that. That's such a cool thing to be it's not fun to do. It is tedious. It's Geno Binda: Yes. I was gonna say, how was that? Yeah, like bucci: you say every name in the league. You have to say it three different ways. You know, you make up these scenarios. Okay, is it's two-nothing midway through the second, home team has a face-off in the offensive zone. Give us something. That's the hard part. I can read names all day for money. I'll do anything I'll do Geno Binda: Right now you're making up those bucci: anything for cash, but to come up with Come up with that stuff. It's like, what? Okay. Yeah, they're up Geno Binda: So you had to come up bucci: by more than three goals. Here's an offensive zone face off. Give us a line or two. You know, like, well, so the Geno Binda: Wow. bucci: Bruins off to a good start here in this one. They gotta like the way they're playing, you know, just something. And you gotta then you might mess up, you gotta Geno Binda: Right. bucci: do it again. So it it's one of those things, you're glad to be a part of it. the end product, you know, the game will be out. I think it's out next month officially, but it's kind of. Geno Binda: Yeah, next next week actually, yeah. bucci: Yeah. And it's but you know, those things always change and develop. It's not all about a cartridge and a game anymore, right? You kind of you can buy Geno Binda: Right. bucci: it online and the game can change. A guy might get traded. So I'll, you know, like I I got I'm doing sessions still this summer. We're we're gonna start working on twenty eight now. Like you know, this game Geno Binda: no kidding. bucci: is the twenty-seven's not even out yet, and we're gonna start working on twenty eight. So, but they also are they're using some AI stuff now. They played me some stuff back on my voice. It's like, well, that's pretty good. you know, if I if it means less work and the same check, I'll take it. but Mark Riley: Ha ha ha. Geno Binda: Yeah, right. bucci: but sometimes AI will get something wrong. Like, and I there were one of the guys were playing it back, and he a lot of these guys are not maybe hardcore sports fans, they're compute their video game extraordinaires. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: That's what they do. They're not always up on the vernacular. And so they were playing me back some of my AI voice, and it's you know, and they're playing it and like scar and the crowd gets out of their chairs. And I was like, No, they're not chairs. Geno Binda: Yeah. Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: I know AI, they look Mark Riley: Yep. bucci: like a chair, but they're th we call them seats. So like little things like that, you gotta Geno Binda: Seats. bucci: go back and listen because you know those words matter and sports fan. You you mess up a word, yeah, like you can't Geno Binda: That would've drove me nuts to listen to cheers. Yeah. my god. bucci: say and the and the final score is four to six. The Red Sox lose. You know, like you can't say four to six, you gotta say six to four. So Geno Binda: Right. Nope. Six of four. bucci: so I let them know, yes, not chairs, it's seats. I understand. But then you can make AI smarter in the future. They'll say seats. They won't say chairs, you gotta manually put that in, but So yeah, little that was kind of a funny, kind of a funny anecdote from from the process. But yeah, it's it's cool to be a part of it. Never expected it. My kids grew my I have two boys who played hockey, you know, might through high school and prep school. So they always played the game. And I told my youngest son Jack when I got the gig, he just started laughing. He goes, That is so cool. Geno Binda: Okay. bucci: Like I just I loved his reaction, just pure laughter of like, that's amazing. My dad's on the video game. So so that's Geno Binda: That's awesome. bucci: been really cool. Yeah, and I started a podcast last year with Frank Saravale, which was really fun. Five Geno Binda: No. bucci: days a week, it was noon to one. And I think we're gonna try to get a new home this year. but hopefully we'll be back. That was really fun too. It was, you know, it gave me because you know, my job's a night job. It's I do games, I fly to about 25 games a year. I'll go to Connecticut and do some, you know, studio stuff in between period stuff for our NHL hockey coverage. And so it was good to have this podcast. It really kept me up on my game. It's another thing to work on and get better at and help your broadcasting. So yeah, between the podcast and the video game and and traveling last year, the ESBN job, it was a lot. But you know, the kids are growing. I got a lot of energy. I feel good. I'm really healthy, thankfully. And so, you know, I've always been a grinder. Hockey people are grinders, and so I'm always looking to fill every hour of the day with anything I can. Geno Binda: Good stuff. Mark Riley: That's awesome. one thing I wanted to bring up because you it our friend Brian McDonald, B Mac, who, you know, put us in touch. he talked about how much w work you do for charity and how involved you are with things. And you don't do it, you know, people don't hear about it because you don't do it, you do it for the right reason. And one of the things I believe you're involved with is you can play with Brian Burke. you know, talk a little bit about. giving back and what that means and y i in the fact that you're in the position to be able to do that. 'Cause it it's it is a cool thing. bucci: Well, lot of that happened again, just out of a most of my life is just a lark. I don't plan things. I'm not a great planner. I just kinda react and I just kinda go with the flow, recognize things. And then so that was really, you know, Twitter started. I got on Twitter. It was Sage Steel who said, You should get on Twitter. I go, What's Twitter? Like I'm seeing people on this thing and they're talking to their friends. I go, Why don't you just text them? Like I had no idea what this was about. Just text your friend. Why do why are you communicating on Twitter? But then she told me about it. So I got on it and it was like, this is kind of fun. And then I'm always looking to start games or just try to make life a little more fun and just with with the people I'm around. Like in college, I would rank the intramural basketball teams. I gave them a weekly ranking and I would put them on the cafeteria door. I went to a small college, 900 students in Ohio, rural Ohio. And so I would have the rankings. I even called like the AP Heidelberg College Innermural. B League basketball rankings. And these pe they couldn't wait to see where's my team ranked. And I got the names and everything. I just like doing kind of so you know, with when Twitter started, I got on there and said, I remember back in the day, NHL Tonight, we would do a thing where me, Ferraro, and Melrose, the game goes to overtime in the playoffs. We'd pick one you know, one guy in each team we think is gonna score the goal, we'd throw a dollar on the set. Our show starts when the game ends, so we just gotta sit there. It could be one overtime, could be two. And so if your guy scored, you took the other two dollars. Put it your pocket, start the show. If no one did, we take our dollar back, put it in our pocket, start the show. So I said, yeah, maybe I'll throw that on Twitter. I'll call it the Bucci Overtime Challenge, kind of a dumb, clunky name. I'm sure if we got like a group together and came up with a name, it would have been much sleeker. But maybe part of its appeal was it was just literal and it was long Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: and it was just dumb. So it just so I threw it out there. Hey, the Bruins and Canadians are going overtime. Pick one guy on each team and I'll retweet. Ten people who get who get one of the two guys, you know, outreach because back then retweeting was a currency on Twitter. They thought if you got retweeted Geno Binda: Right. bucci: by someone with more followers, it might help your followers. I guess it that's how it kind of worked back then. And Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: it just I could I couldn't believe how quickly, like, my gosh, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people were playing after the third time. Then it became like a mini phenomenon there late in the playoffs that first year. I think it was twenty eleven. I go, then I and I threw it out on Twitter and goes, maybe next year I'll make some t-shirts made. I'll print t-shirts and then, like for five of the people who get it right, because hundreds will get because thousands of people are playing now. I'll pick five random winners and I'll send them a t-shirt. Then I'll start a, I'll try to get, I'll sell them as well, and I'll give the money to charity. That's I just kind of threw it all out there. So I buy the, I buy a thousand white t-shirts at six bucks a piece. So six thousand, I go, my gosh, I buy six thousand dollars worth. I hope I can sell these. You know, I got this is sick. I don't have six thousand dollars in my checking account, you know. but sure enough, they sold like crazy. I was selling like twenty thousand dollars worth of t-shirts a month those first couple of years of Bucci over it. It was unbelievable. And like I Geno Binda: Wow. bucci: said, I said, I'll give the money to charity. And people are saying I'd have a website, people are sending me money in the mail, cash in envelopes to get these t-shirts. It would it became like a fashion thing, right? The hashtag Boochie, because hashtags were kind of new. It was hashtag Geno Binda: Wow. That's right. Yeah. bucci: very simple. Hashtag Bucci Overtime Challenge. High school friend Pete Potanzini from Ohio wrote a cool little retro logo with me. I think I'm on like some whole hockey players. I put my face on someone's, you know, dit clapper or someone's, you know, just pose. I go I told you, I go, hockey fans like nostalgia back then. Not as much now, but back then it was all about original six nostalgia. And it just took off. It went crazy. And so You know, I kinda wish I had said I would have paid my mortgage with all this money because I would not have a mortgage, but I said, so now I'm so yeah, so I had an opportunity to write these big checks to these different hockey-related charities. Like if a player started a cancer foundation, I bought Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: RPI women's third jerseys of the hockey team one. Like I it became also another creative part of my mind is I want to give the money to cool things, like really Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: spread it out, different things. You know, Nick Felino's daughter had a tough surgery going up. And so I gave that hospital like 10 Geno Binda: I remember that. bucci: grand. Cause like his, he had a great s you know situation with so just to be able to write those big checks I could never write from my own salary was, yeah, that's very gratifying to be able to Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. bucci: do that and really feel like you're making an impact. So and yeah, you can play was one of them. That was you know, when when Brian Burke's son Brendan wanted to wanted to come out, he he approached me to write the column on ESPN.com and I was obviously fascinated by it being with Berkey's obviously public persona of being this truculent guy and he has his son who's making this difficult personal decision and the way Berkey handled it that came out in this column, that was one of the most, you know, that was amazing. And I just wrote it because it was like Brendan's a cool kid. I like Berkey. The family's, you know, Patrick got a hold of me. He was going to Notre Dame at the time. I write the story. You know, it's like I I it was a great story to write. Because he trusted me and it was just it was very interesting to me. I didn't really think about the impact. I'm not I'm kind of dumb that way. But obviously it blew up, it went crazy, and it became this giant thing, especially in Canada. And I was like, wow, I didn't really see I just I'm just writing a story of this family, making this, you know, d going through this thing. And then of course he tragically dies in a car crash, you Geno Binda: Right. bucci: know, three months later. And I write kind of the kind of the obituary column as well. And just became part of their family as a result. And, you know, Patrick kind of that's when he really started the foundation soon after that. And so yeah, that so just to be able to get in you know to be involved with hockey people like that. And then the Bucci overtime and then the college hockey also kind of kept that going. So the two of them together have enabled me to give, you know, about a quarter million dollars to charities in the 10 years that I've been doing this. And that's been really, you know, this it's nice to be able to do that. It's kinda slowed down. It's no longer the Bucci overtime challenge. Isn't quite the fashion trend as it used to be. And I also have kind of slowed down because I did everything out of my house. I everything, all the inventory was in my house. I would go to the post office, mail it myself. I would do all this myself. And it's like it after a while, it's like I don't want to have three thousand T shirts in my house. So you have to come up with new product. Anytime you have a line, a restaurant, you need new product to keep it growing. And I kinda got A little bit lax. Every now and then I did a Barry Melrose t-shirt, which did really well a couple of years ago when Barry's Parkinson's disease was diagnosed. And so that was kind of that that was a nice little adrenaline rush to to do that, to come up with a product, have people respond to it, enjoy it, buy it. And so yeah, every even now I'll get a few orders every now and then on my Shopify and just I get a kick out of somebody actually went online to buy this little thing that I designed, this hat, this logo. And then I'll go and I'll I'll put it in a package and I'll put the label out and I'll go to the post office and I'll drop it off. It'll go their mailbox and they'll take it and they'll open it and they'll hold it up. And that's like that's a very that's almost like a very intimate, cool connection that you have with a stranger through Geno Binda: Mm mm. Right. bucci: hockey. So, like I said, hockey has been the thread for me, the the ultimate gift in my life. Always loved the sport growing up, but never thought it would give me the life that I have in terms of a job, an occupation. being able to provide for my family, being able to g you know to give some charity dollars as well on a small scale compared to others, but still very gratifying. So i the life it's given me is just indescribable. And so that's why I love the sport even more than I did as a kid. I I love it for different ways now. Geno Binda: I worked the frozen four in Minnesota. I wanna say it was maybe nineteen or eighteen and nineteen nineteen, right? So you bucci: Nineteen, yeah. Duluth. Geno Binda: Yes. Yeah. And they del I worked the NCHC and Duluth stopped me from working the final. So I did the I did the Michigan Notre Dame game, which when Notre Dame so Notre Dame yeah, they scored with like so I did the regional game before that in Providence. Yep. bucci: Jake Evans. He right through Quinn Quinn Hughes' legs, right through Quinn lose his heads and and by the goalie. Geno Binda: Yep. I called the penalty in that game on Quinn Hughes. That I wanted to chew my arm off. He didn't go down. You were very nice to me. you were very nice to me. It wasn't a penalty. bucci: Ha ha. Geno Binda: and I knew it right away. It was like he's the best skater in the thing. The stick was in, came up, and just got like the puck and boom, got him. Like he go, he kind of goes down, but the stick had nothing to do with it. He lost an bucci: Right. Geno Binda: edge. And I'm skating back, and my arm shoots up, and it's third period. I'm like, fuck. me, it's a tie game. I'm like, he didn't get him. I can't chew my arm off. I'm going to my partners and they're like, dude, just just fucking whatever. I go to Jeff Jackson. He's like, get away from me, we'll kill it. you know, so like they killed it, thank God. And bucci: That's cool. Geno Binda: and they ended up winning with like point whatever seconds left. It was unbelievable. Yeah. bucci: Yeah. Stunner. Absolute stunner. Yeah, Jake Evans came down on Quinn Hughes, just a weird type of goal. And that was, yeah, because you know, Michigan's gotten so close. They still haven't won in so long. And Quinn was such a great he was such a young kid. I remember seeing him there and he was little. And a couple of GMs who I know, I was texting them. I go, Boy, this guy's the real deal. I know he's little, but his quads, he's got he's got an engine here. I you know, we interview Geno Binda: It was awesome. bucci: these it's funny, we get to interview these kids. They bring like on the frozen four, about six guys on a Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. bucci: team. And they were, you they're in their shorts their t-shirts. You can kind of get a look at their frame. Like some kids, like, boy, that kid's skinny. It's just not gonna happen, right? Or that Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: kid's okay, he's got he's got an Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: engine. And I remember, yeah, Geno Binda: He's got the re bord eyes. bucci: exactly. That's what he had. And he was 18, he was really young. So you know he's gonna get a Geno Binda: Yeah. right. bucci: little bit bigger, even though he was small. but I remember seeing Johnny Goodreau and Geno Binda: Yes. bucci: his fresh it was it was maybe his junior year. And I remember and and I remember talking and Kevin Hayes. It's like, Kevin, can he play in the league? He's like 130 pounds. Like, he goes, and that just the way he looked at, you know, when an athlete looks at you and says, my God, the kid is a freak and a magician. So when those when they give you, that's what I love about college with my job with the NHL, is they give me that information. So now whenever I talk about Johnny Goodreau or write about Johnny Goodreau, I can be bullish on Johnny Goodreau because I know Geno Binda: Right. bucci: what his peers think of him deep down. Like, no, this Geno Binda: Right. bucci: kid's a magician. I said, Okay, I'm all in. And so that's That's a great way to get information for my job, use it for my job. And just I just, you know, the interaction with those kids is great. And kind of a who's gonna be good, who's who's gonna, who surprises you? But Quinn was the one guy I remember telling these G don't, don't, you gotta get him. This guy's the real deal. He's a freak, you know. And Geno Binda: He was. bucci: and now it's just those small defensemen though, like Lane Hudson, Cole, they just those GMs cannot, they have a hard time taking and I get it, because in the come playoff time, you need to be a big beast. And I get it, you build a roster to win championships. And but that's a that's always a tough one for GMs, the small, talented defenseman. Geno Binda: Absolutely. And to what my point in that whole runaround was you were our guest speaker at our breakfast. So every every Friday morning of the Frozen Four, the referees meet with all the supervisors and we, you know, we dissect the games from the semifinals and then whatever bucci: cool. Geno Binda: and you get beat up a little bit, but it is what it is, and then you move on and you know, have a little bit of a meeting, but you were our guest speaker in the breakfast. And you you gave a phenomenal little speech about hockey and how it's unique and how it's such like a great unique sport for the people that are involved in hockey and and talked about how great hockey people were and you were just speaking earlier. That just reminded me of that. bucci: Cool. Yeah. Geno Binda: And it's just yeah, that was a great little little speech about hockey and I've always remembered that, yeah. bucci: Yeah, frozen yeah, the frozen four in in the in the NCAA. It's it's that the to get that gig and be a part of it. I didn't grow up with that. I didn't grow up with college hockey in Pennsylvania Geno Binda: I mean bucci: and Ohio. The first game I went to was the the Frozen Four in Providence that I covered for the local news station. Yeah, it's the first time I ever went to a college game because there was just Geno Binda: Mm. wow. bucci: there's no college hockey in western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. You know, there is now, but there wasn't Robert Morris didn't have a team back then when I was a kid. And the only time we vape my my par my dad took his two weeks vacation every year and we drive to Boston in August. So it was only in you know I was only in New England in August from age three to eighteen, you know, and three to twenty-two really. And then after I graduated, I was always determined to move to Boston. I knew that pretty much end of my high school years, I was gonna graduate and go right to Boston and and start my you know, try to s get a TV career going there. I knew my parents would move back, all my relatives were there. I always grew up in kind of economically tough areas. you know, depressed kind of mining towns in Pennsylvania, then this then the steel industry, which was collapsing while I was in Ohio. So Boston was kind of a you New England was a utopia between family. The sports teams were all doing a amazingly well with Byrd and Bork and even the Patriots made the Super Bowl in eighty-six. The Red Sox obviously lost in eighty six, but they're all doing well. My relatives were there. So it was really it was cool to have that at at age twenty-two. It was almost like a whole new beginning. It was like a whole jump start. kind of like this rocket fuel for my life to get excited, to begin my, you know, try to get a job. It took 15 months to get my first TV job, not like I stepped out of college. It was, you know, working at the Boston Harbor Hotel gift shop, bringing up very fine juices from the basement, going down to Cape Cod Mall and working at Chess King, which were terrible clothes. my God. Terrible. Mark Riley: Just kidding. bucci: my terrible. We got 40% discount. So that's where I bought my clothes. But man, you talk about they'd be in style for like eight days. I remember they had this bull they had this bullfighter suit. You look like a matador. It was in for like six and a half days. There's probably all kinds of dudes with these matador suits that were up to your waist for like a in the summer of nineteen you eighty-nine that were just trying to try to pick up. Mark Riley: They get a body of buttons. bucci: I did I didn't buy it. I was like, that's not me. Mark Riley: No, I have I have a buddy that bought it. I remember that outfit. We tortured him. We tortured him. bucci: Yeah, the Matador suit. that's funny. But yeah, then but then finally got finally Martha Cusick gave me a chance. I was a night photographer. worked from four to ten, six hours a day. She got budgeted for a thirty hour a week cameraman. And then January first it became full time for it was two to ten. And then I whenever the sports guy wasn't there, I got to fill in. So then he left in April of of n of 1990. And that's when I started full time as a sports guy at Cape 11 News, doing Cape Cod Baseball League High School. A lot of people would be there for two years, then they'd go like to Manchester, New Hampshire, or Charleston, South Carolina. I wanted, I just, you know, I got married, had a baby. I kind of wanted to skip that step. Plus, they had a great golf deal in South Yarmouth. 350 bucks, play all the golf you want at Bass River and Bay Berry. I mean, I'm not gonna beat that Geno Binda: Perfect. bucci: deal. $350, you know, after you play 10 times and I walked. Geno Binda: Money back, yeah. bucci: It was free after that. So I stay I said, you what, I like it. I'm gonna try to skip that second step. And luckily it worked out. I got to Providence, which was the forty-second biggest market in the country at the time. So I was able to go right from Cape Eleven to Prov then bam, two years later I'm at ESPN. So I go from like Cape Eleven News, make in eighteen seven with a wife and two kids. And then two years later, I'm at ESPN with Chris Berman. Like it happened so and I did so much cool stuff in in Providence. There was a The Frozen Four, the US figure skating championships were there. And back then that was like with Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. Geno Binda: Right. bucci: That was like a freak show. That was awesome. There's a the team from Warwick or Cranston went to the Little League World Series. They made it all the way to the finals. So I was in Williamsport for a week, you know, and I covered PC hockey and brown hockey and football and and Patriot training camp with Bill Parcells. Opening day Red Sox, last hockey game at the Boston Garden, the preseason game. I was there on the ice. Last Celtics game at the Boston Geno Binda: yeah, right there yeah. bucci: Garden. They lose to Shaq and Orlando in the playoffs. I was there for that one. So those two years at Providence were really cool. And I look back now, that almost seems like I was there for 20 years, because I've been ESPN for 30. And those two years are so memorable with all the stuff I did, concentrated stuff I did Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: over the over the two years. Geno Binda: That's cool. What a career. Mark Riley: It's awesome. Well we asked we ask everyone this and it actually stemmed from Cedric Maxwell asking us on the episode he was on. bucci: Cornbread. Mark Riley: Cornbread, yes. who is Geno Binda: Yeah. He was great. Mark Riley: your Mount Rushmore of hockey? bucci: Well, I mean it it's like you could answer that so many ways. There's broadcasters, there's friends, there's players, you know, like Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: people close to me. It's like, you know, Barry Melrose and Ray Ferraro and that kinda but you know, and in terms of players, it's obviously, you know, or or and Gretzky are are one two, however order you want to go, two different positions, you know, so different. for sure. You know, I think in terms of talent, you know, Mario Lemieux and his size and his skill. Had he played the same amount of games as Wayne Gretzky in the same era, he would have had more points. Like he would have had more goals and more assists than Wayne. Like, that's how good he was. Like it's it's almost impossible to realize some of his early highlights, Geno Binda: Right. bucci: how good he was. And you're probably at this point, you know, we're reaching the point where Sidney Crosby, with his professionalism, his longevity, his resume of gold medals and Stanley Cups, Yeah, just an impeccable record as a person, it seems like, right? a representative of the game. He's really reaching that point. I know there's Gordy Howe, and there's Maurice Richard, and there's so many. There's Connor McDavid, who's no one's ever skated like him in the history of the sport that fast, that skillful, and his mind is just as good as his talent. That that's what makes him Connor McDavid is his mind as well. so yeah, it's it's it's really impossible, but to me it's it's almost it's it's pretty much Wayne, Bobby, Mario. And I think Sid does deserve a seat at that table with what he's done this generation of you know, the league is only getting better and the players are more talented. And here he is, born n you he's gonna turn what, turn f he's he's thirty nine, just turned thirty nine. He'll be forty next August and you wonder how far he can go. But I I I hope he plays until he gets two thousand points, 'cause I think he can do it. I mean, Mark Reci played though he was 44 and had 18 goals his last year. So like that's why I say sit as a chance for 2,000 points. Only Wayne has done that. So to be the only other guy but Wayne to get 2,000 points and to play a lot of your career in a low scoring error like he did, that 05 to 20, it's back it's a little better now recently. We're back over six goals a game combined, both teams. but you know, that's and that's the great thing about OV's record. He didn't do it. The best time to be an NHL player. was like nineteen seventy nine to nineteen ninety-two. That that was like the goal. Everybody scored goals in that era. And that's that's so those are guys like sixty years old. So when you see guys whether the you know they're sixty to sixty five, their their goal totals are gonna be very high. Mark Riley: Yeah. bucci: And so yeah, it's it's an impossible question. We all have our own little preferences and in different generations, but that'd probably be my four at this point. Mark Riley: Yeah, Sid's a Geno Binda: Good four. Mark Riley: g Sid's a good pick and he did and he's done it all with one team, which I bucci: Yeah. Mark Riley: think there's something to be said about that. I you know, that doesn't happen now bucci: There is. No. Geno Binda: And Melkin too, like both of Mark Riley: too often, you know. Geno Binda: them just staying on that same team those all those years. Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: That's that's impressive. bucci: It is. It is. Yeah. You wonder if sometimes if one a couple of times he woke up and say, Boy, it'd be pretty cool to go to Colorado and let kind of Nate carry the but I think I I'm thinking now at this point he's he wants to see this through. And like Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: he does have to play for because the one reason why is because now there's international competition again. So he can get a taste of that, right? World Cup will be next year. We have an all-star game this year, but twenty twenty eight will have World Cup again. He he'll probably be he could probably make that team still. That's a carrot for him. And try to get one more gold medal. The next Olympics might be tough. You know, he'd be 42, but still possible. He could certainly be a part of the team if he's still productive and a point per game guy, and maybe get one more gold medal. But representing Canada now in these World Cups and Olympics, maybe that'll and in fact he already has three Stanley Cups, maybe that keeps him from having to go to one more team to get one more cup. Does he have to do that? Like you don't need so we'll see how we're long as Pittsburgh kind of you continues to grow. rise up a little bit and it's not a terrible, desperate situation. I could see him actually seeing through and being that one team guy, which, man, that's gonna be rare 'cause as these guys play longer and longer. Mark Riley: W funny funny story. Two episodes ago we had Pat Leahy on and Patty scored his first goal in the same game that Sidney Crosby scored his first NHL goal. Yeah. Which was pretty cool. bucci: Wow. How about that? Geno Binda: Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. Mark Riley: Yeah. so it was it kind of neat to be on the same score sheet, with your first NHL goal with with with Sidney Crosby. bucci: Was that game in Boston or Pittsburgh? Mark Riley: Believe it was in Pittsburgh, if I'm not mistaken. Geno Binda: I think it was in Pittsburgh. It was yeah, it was in Pittsburgh, yeah. bucci: I think it was t okay. Mark Riley: because Lemieux had two goals and two assists in that game. And I we and I you know, Pat talked about the game and which Brian I I believe it was someone else had their first game goal that game. Boys, he had his first goal that game too. Yeah. And bucci: wow. How about that? Geno Binda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark Riley: so it was a goal. I think their final score was seven six, I think he said. So it's pretty wild. bucci: Yeah. Yeah, that was that year out of the lockout when the referees were told to call every little touch in front of the net. So we had a very high scoring bump that first year out of the lockout because there were so many power plays and there was no hitting in front of the net. And then they kind of amended that, thankfully. And then the yeah so those first two years out of the lockout, you saw some guys have some years they never had again because there was there was a lot of goals, but then it simmered down and became a very again it became a very defensive league again. for the next ten, fifteen years, which makes the Ovechkin record really, really impressive. Mark Riley: Last question, where is the best chicken palm? Where's your go to? bucci: Well again, you know, obviously the north end of Boston is is deep. It's a deep field. You know, it's like the original six. There's no there's a lot of guys in the minors who are could have been professional hockey players in the forties and fifties and sixties, but they're only six teams, only about a hundred and twenty jobs. So the the north end is like that. It's a deep original six area, but that that veal parm chop at Tresca, Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: Chef Rich Man, I got to do a little story with Jeremy Swayman. We went in the back kitchen. They took us through the process of how they make it. you know, as you know, I make my own parm and I learned a lot. You know, you gotta pound that chicken, you gotta pound it good. you gotta put flour, you know, you do the egg yolk in the, you know, in the milk, but then you put in some flour, then the Italian seasoning, and then the big, big deal was, you know, you know, obviously then the sauce and the cheese. But in the oven for like five hundred and ten degrees for like eleven, twelve minutes. So it's hotter and shorter for chicken. And that Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: was so when I did that at home, I didn't think my stove went up to five ten. I go, I've never been to Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: five I go, does it go that high? Like I always went to four hundred was the highest I ever went. But I Geno Binda: Right. bucci: was like, look it it makes it goes to five ten. Look at that. And then yeah, I put the big marinara on the bottom of the pan, then put the cutlets that you also pan fry. Never pan fried first in olive oil. But then that you know, again, yolk, milk, flour, seasoning, and then pan fry it, get a crispy there, and then you put the sauce and cheese in the oven, 510 degrees for about 10 to 12. Every oven's a little different. And that was a difference for my homemade parm. But the but the way they do it at Tresca there, it was in Jeremy talked about his career and about parm. And so that was a fun feature to do for ESPN. And I learned a lot from Tresca in the right on Hanover, right on Hanover Street there. Mother Anna's, and then Tresca's right there. And then Brico for the Mark Riley: I hear a pretty good guy. bucci: best espresso martini in the world Geno Binda: Mm. bucci: is right there, right next to Tresca. It's Brico's, right? I think that's I believe that's the bar. Yeah. Geno Binda: Think you're right. Yep. Very good. bucci: So yeah, that that's yeah, hand over to I that's a kind of a a t a dream of mine is to rent a pl an apartment in the north end for twelve months. I want to spend one calendar a year in the north end of Boston just to kind of do do Boston, go concerts and ball games and restaurants, and like that would be like Kind of like a bucket list thing for me to do a twelve month lease at an apartment in the north end and just that would be my best life, I think, for twelve straight lines. Yeah, no don't need a car, just get an Uber Geno Binda: And get rid of your car. Mark Riley: No time. bucci: everywhere. And then and get enough relatives in the area. If I need to get somewhere, I could get some we could go to the airport, it's close by. So yeah, I'm hoping I can make that happen soon. Mark Riley: I have a place you should try. It's a little bit of a ride, but it's worth it. It's in Medfield. Basil. Basil restaurant in Medfield. it looks bucci: Okay. Good name. Good name for a restaurant. Mark Riley: it looks like a funeral home. I swear to God. It's in the middle of a neighborhood. bucci: Love it. Mark Riley: And they and I I switch it up a little bit. I throw eggplant palm on top of the chicken. bucci: Well dudes were probably whacked there, so it was convenient. You get whacked there, the f you're right in the funeral Geno Binda: Okay. bucci: home. Mark Riley: No one suspects Medfield as a bucci: No. Mark Riley: place to get whacked. But bucci: Basil. Very good. Mark Riley: Basil, and you throw a little eggplant palm on top of the chicken. bucci: Wow. Mark Riley: And I'll tell you what, with little angel here, it's a chef's kiss. So worth the ride. bucci: Mm. Ooh. I heard I heard La Scalia in Randolph is a great place to haven't made there yet. Geno Binda: Heard that place, yes. Mark Riley: Listen no, that place is awesome my my niece's friend he she grew up with owns that place. his family owns that place and that place is by far fantastic too. It's another good one. bucci: Yeah, they all they also own Mother Anna's right there on Hanover Street, the first restaurant in the north end there. That's same same group. So yes, I gotta get to Lescalia and Randolph and and check that. Mark Riley: Yeah. All right. Well, Bucci, this was awesome. We appreciate you coming on and Geno Binda: This was awesome. Thank you. Mark Riley: you know, and talking shop and I love the bucci: That was awesome. I learned a lot. I learned some new NCAA rules. Geno Binda: Yeah. bucci: got to take a walk back. And like I said, it's funny, just you you mentioned my career and I've been in it now for 39 years. Like you just I forget how luck like the you know, the Bucci Overtime Challenge thing and the the video game. It's like, man, it's just this cool stuff keeps stacking and stacking. It's just man, at some point I'll I'll I'll Geno Binda: Keep grinding. bucci: I'll had enough, but it's been it's been such a great ride. You forget, you know, the cause it's again, that's a long time. There's ups and there's downs, right? You're feeling good. And it's like, what am I doing? But I always Tell my kids or any anybody out there at a job, you just gotta keep grinding. It's not always gonna be great, right? There's gonna be times where it's like, I should be doing more shows than that guy. Like I'm better than they are. And why does that guy get a promotion? Why does that woman get a promotion? But you just gotta stick with it. And that's what cocky, I said, life's about, you know, about being hockey's about being good in the corners and life is about being good in the corners. You gotta be good in the corners, you know. If you just good in the corners, everything else will take care of itself. Something always happens. That's another creed out of the buy. Something always happens. You'll get an email, you'll get something, you'll get a phone call from somebody. Something will happen. Just expect good things to happen. Be a good person. Try your best. And just don't worry. Stuff will happen. Be patient. I was always able to be patient. I think that's why that was a key for me too. I could just wait. I could stay in Cape Cod for five years. I'm I'm not in a rush. It's okay. I I you know, I I'm not in this for money, you know, and So yeah, just be patient. Shit will happen. Geno Binda: I hope our referees are listening because they all they all want to get there yesterday and they all want to get to that bucci: Yes. Geno Binda: big game. They all want the final. They all want this. How come I didn't get that? Yeah. You bucci: Get good first. Get good first. Yeah. Geno Binda: don't want to feel like you don't want your first impression being, who the fuck is this bucci: No. Geno Binda: kid? And now now you don't want now you you hesitate putting him back in. So it's such a good bucci: Yeah. Geno Binda: point. bucci: Yeah, my first ten job my first ten years in the business were before the internet. So Geno Binda: Right. bucci: I mean, th there's there's there's not me being terrible in Cape Cod, right? No, it's not out there. So it's great. Now that yeah, the pre No Geno Binda: Right. Make all your mistakes in junior hockey, right. bucci: doubt about it. Geno Binda: Well, this has been great, John. Mark Riley: It's it's great it's great advice personally for me because you know, we you we you have this podcast and you're like, It's good. When's someone gonna notice? And doing comedy bucci: Right. Mark Riley: is the same way. I have that, you know, those flashes where you go, Why is that person doing that show and not me? bucci: Right. Mark Riley: And then you remember, you know what? Just worry about yourself. Worry about yourself bucci: About the craft. Yep. Mark Riley: and and if it's good, they'll find you. And so it's great. bucci: Yeah, Jer Jerry Seinfeld has tons of great inform great viewpoints on that as a young comic Geno Binda: Yes. bucci: for him. This young, he's talking to this young comic. He's like, he's complaining why he can't get why and Jerry's like, what are you doing? This is this is the best job. You just worry about your job. Just worry about your job. I just worry about the next broadcast. Do really well. I got devils and flyers October first. That's all I'm thinking about right now. I can't wait to do that game. You know, Geno Binda: Right. bucci: I'm I'm I'm getting ready for that game. I'm gonna do that game, I'm gonna treat it like a Stanley Cup playoff game, and then I'll be on to the next one. Like, you know, you just Geno Binda: Right. bucci: Just yeah, focus on the craft and just keep your head down, do a good job and and good things will Geno Binda: Good things will happen. bucci: usually happen. Mark Riley: Love it. Geno Binda: Good stuff. bucci: Thank you, boys. Geno Binda: Thank you. This has been great. Mark Riley: Which is awesome. bucci: All right. Have a great season. Geno Binda: You as well. Good luck. Mark Riley: I don't know that there's a better guy out in in in you know in in broadcasting and in the sport of hockey than than Bucci. Geno Binda: Nope. just an all around just dynamite guy. Like that was awesome interview, just true professional. He you know, his career, his things he's touched, the you know, the charity things he puts himself in and how he you know, just holds himself accountable and everything else, like it it sh you know, there's no question why he's had a good career, right? Everything he's you know, put into it, he's got out of it. And that's what Mark Riley: I know his hi that advice at the end, man, just trust the process. And we talked about it. You know, you start a podcast and we're, you know, we're growing, but you know, Geno Binda: Yeah. Mark Riley: you kind of gotta be patient and let the process happen. And it applies to really anything in life. And just a remarkable dude with a great story and great insight. And, you know, looking forward to another NHL season with him with him giving his The play by play and the, you know, studio stuff. Just just yeah. That was a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Geno Binda: And I'll see him at the fro I'll see him at the frozen fours and the regionals and and all that kind of stuff too. So like, yeah, he's very instrumental in that in the college hockey. big voice. He kinda not only like like not put college on the map, but like kinda, you know, all these college kids really like, you know, flock to, you know, that kind of stuff, right? Just, you know, all the goofy antics and the the language he uses and like I said, like He's really good to referees, right? Like especially that that one call I had had in the dirt period where it wasn't a trip, you know, and I like, You were very nice to me on the commentary, so appreciate that. Mark Riley: Yeah. Now he he brings a level I think of legitimacy to the broadcast of college hockey. You know, it's not just some Geno Binda: Right. Yeah. Mark Riley: college kid doing it or a local guy. You know, he's he's John Bootergrass and Geno Binda: He's the Fred Cusick of for he's the Fred Cusick of college hockey for the for Boston people, right, growing up. Like now Mark Riley: Yes. Yes. Geno Binda: like if you hear a college game without his voice, you're like, it's kinda weird. Yeah. When he's not calling a college Mark Riley: Yep. And it's funny, Fred Tuesday. Geno Binda: game or like Yeah. Mark Riley: Yeah, his daughter gave him his start down the Cape, which is kind of a a cool tie back. So really, really cool stuff. Geno Binda: Right. Kinda right. I mean there's a this like there's some really good college announcers out there, like Dave Starman's another one that's really good. you know, but John just took these he's something else. Next level. Mark Riley: Now he's next level. Next level. And a next level guy. So we appreciate him coming on. And and the heater continues. Geno Binda: Hope you guys enjoyed it. Mark Riley: Yeah. I don't know how you couldn't. I'll be honest with you. I don't know how you couldn't enjoy that one. so before we wrap it up, thank our sponsor, the referees, Crease, and you one stop shop for all your referee needs. Also remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. Geno Binda: TikTok. Mark Riley: Thank you, Gino. also check us out at chirpingzeebras.com and check out some merch. And if you have anything that you want us to talk about or a guest that you might want us to have on, feel free to email us mark at chirpingzeebras.com or Gino at chirpingzeebras.com. so Geno Binda: With an E. Mark Riley: with an E. Yes, Gino with an E. Everyone it's funny. It when I do the talk to text and I text you, I always have to change it. 'Cause it automatically Geno Binda: Mm. Mark Riley: goes to an eye. It's annoying, actually. So not not your name, the fact that they don't pick that up, you know. Well you'd think my phone would learn. It's a smartphone. You know what I mean? Like Geno Binda: my name's annoying too, but yeah, that is annoying. Eugene, like every Eugene. Yeah. Right. Mark Riley: learn learn my buddy's name. so for Gino Binda, Gino with an E, I'm Mark Riley. we'll see you next time right here on the Trapping Zebras. Geno Binda: you