Latest / Off the Page / Episode 004-Liz Alterman & K. R. Raye: Sweet Revenge
Transcript
- K. R. Raye: Salutations readers, welcome to Off the Page Podcast with KR Raye, your Authorpreneur. This is the place where stories leap off the page. Every episode, we explore the characters and stories that stay with us and resonate long after we finish reading the book or watching the show. I'm the host K. R. Raye, your Authorpreneur, and Authorpreneurs, just like entrepreneurs, wear multiple hats. In my case, I'm an award-winning author, screenwriter, podcaster, speaker, and publisher. Today's guest is fellow Authorpreneur Liz Alterman. Liz is the author of an award-winning memoir and several suspense novels, including her latest. You'll Be Sorry. Her work has been published by the New York Times, The Washington Post, and McSweeney's Internet Tendency. Liz is also a workshop leader, query coach, and speaker. So without further ado, Liz Alterman, welcome to Off the Page. It's wonderful to have you here. Liz: Thank you, Dare. I'm not used to the applause. I like it. I can get used to that. Thank you so much for having K. R. Raye: Yeah. Liz: me. I'm so excited to chat with you today. K. R. Raye: My pleasure. So let's go ahead and get started. As authors and creatives, we understand the importance of characters and stories to our audience. So we're gonna dive into our first segment, The Characters We Won't Forget. With your latest book, You'll Be Sorry, tell me more about the protagonist, Amelia Montgomery, and discuss what makes audiences really emotionally attach to certain characters. Liz: Thank you, KR. Well, I'd love to start by telling you a bit about Amelia because when you read the book, you're gonna meet her in two phases. Well, actually, really three phases of her life. So you're going to see her on the eve before her 40th birthday, and she's, you know, just kind of going about her life. Things are, you know, not so exciting at the moment. She's in sort of a lackluster relationship. She's just sold her business. And she flips through a magazine, and there she spots. The face of the man who broke her heart more than a decade ago. And it just kind of brings everything back. She had made a promise to her sister that she would never Google him, that she would just sort of move forward. And of course, you know, once she sees him, promise broken. So then, as you keep reading, we flash back and we get to see Amelia. At the start of that relationship. You learn they're kind of meet cute. And at that point in her life, she was a kindergarten teacher. And she was very, you know, full of life, very sweet, you know, very vastly different from the sort of snarky, almost 40-year-old narrator. K. R. Raye: Almost forty Liz: Right. That we that we come yeah, she's clinging to every day but before she hits forty. So we see her in both timelines and she has a very different voice in both. In the past she's very sweet, very optimistic, the kind of person who'll do anything for anybody. She'll remember your birthday. And then in present day, she's sort of like, Okay, you know, it's about time I Got revenge. So I think what what I think readers have been enjoying is that at certain points in the novel, so certainly in the present day, she is speaking directly to the reader. And she kind of gives a warning early on, like, I'm telling you now, I'm gonna make some questionable choices. And if you're not okay with that, like this is me showing you the exit ramp. Get off now. And so I had a lot of fun with that voice because and it's almost like As I was writing, it was almost like a bit of an inside joke for me because I had written a young adult thriller early on called He'll Be Waiting. And in it the protagonist is a 17-year-old girl. She's in love for the first time, and her boyfriend asks if she will drive to the airport on a snowy night to pick up a friend. And things sort of spiral out of control from there. But I had so many reviewers who were like, This girl should have said no. And I'm like, Well, first of all, have you ever they're like, she makes bad choices. I'm like, well, she's 17, she's in love. Like, were you not? Did you always make good choices when you were 17? All right. And also I'm like, K. R. Raye: You make bad choices at that age. Liz: if she doesn't make a bad choice, there's no story there. You know, if she was just like, tell that guy to get an Uber, click, like, story over. K. R. Raye: Story done. Nothing happens. Liz: Right. But I sort of I this time I was like, all right, I'm gonna head readers off at the pass. Like if you're if you don't like a character who, you know, makes some bad decisions, this is not the book for you. So K. R. Raye: Not the right one. Liz: right. And so I wanted Amelia to kind of tell like that's how she's gonna talk to you and she's gonna tell you like, This is the coffee I drink. I recommend this, you know, if if you don't have that, maybe get a better job. and that's very different from who she was in the past, where she's sweet. So I wanted to also kind of have her be a little bit funny so that you are on her side. Because I do think as somebody does bad things, it like you you still want the reader kind of rooting for them or at least K. R. Raye: Exactly. Liz: understanding their motivations. So It was it was fun to write and I hope that she stays with readers. I have had a few ask, like, will there be a sequel? Will we get to see her again? So I I think she's staying with readers. K. R. Raye: Because you know, you just have to have more revenge that comes. Or it's like, did you learn your lesson? Did you not? Let's see where you went. Liz: Right, right. Exactly, exactly, right. How did that work out? K. R. Raye: So that's gonna go straight to our second segment. So as you build on the character, we really wanna talk about the scene that stayed with you. So discuss a scene, story, film, or book moment that emotionally impacted you and why. Liz: Ooh, okay. Well, I think I'll pick one from the book just as I think about Amelia. I mean, definitely I had written a piece for Crime Reads a few years ago about how in my like high school college days, I spent almost every Saturday going to the movies, watching psychological thrillers. And so I feel like I was sort of raised on the the Fatal Attraction, the Unfaithful, The Hand that Rocks the Cradle. And I mean, all of the like I couldn't tell you what I had for dinner last night, but I'm like, Do you remember the scene from yeah? K. R. Raye: From Liz: 1993, when we when this happened. Yeah, so I think like those kind of stuck with me. So in this book, without really spoiling too much, Amelia Throughout her chapters, she sort of just begins like planting these seeds of revenge and sort of exacting her revenge on this person who broke her heart and his family. And so, of course, now he's gone on and he has a new wife, a new life, children. And so there's one scene where she sort of meets with his wife for a drink, and she uses aliases throughout the book, and she kind of shows her something on her phone. That she has put together that is not true. And just we kind of watch Ethan's wife spiral from there and and where things go from there. So that was without giving too much away, it was fun to write that. I that was one, you know how as a writer you look forward to writing so like certain scenes are harder, and then some it's almost like the dessert, like you ate your vegetables, K. R. Raye: Yes. Liz: now you get to eat your dessert. So that was like a dessert scene for me. K. R. Raye: And that totally gives me Fatal Attraction vibes because you always remember Glenn Close doing some crazy butt things throughout that movie with meeting with the wife, with the whole bunny rabbit scene Liz: Yes. K. R. Raye: later, just all these kind of things. And so I'm already getting tingles, just thinking about all of the horrible things that could possibly go wrong from Liz: Right. K. R. Raye: Amelia meeting with the wife and just especially with like fictitious setup that she has and aliases and you're just like, this this is not going to Liz: Right, exactly. K. R. Raye: end well. Liz: No, it doesn't. It it doesn't end well for anyone. And it probably won't if I write the sequel, right? It's just gonna keep going. K. R. Raye: Exactly. That just puts a lays the whole foundation for where this Liz: Exactly. K. R. Raye: will continue to go horribly wrong after you think maybe it would have resolved itself and maybe not. Liz: Exactly. That's funny. K. R. Raye: Awesome. So when you pull all of this together for our third and final segment, The Emotional Core: What Makes it Real, discuss the central emotional tension inside your work or creative process. Liz: thank you for a I think that's such a good question. I think the tension lies for me sort of throughout my books is you know, who are the people that you know and how close is anyone at any point to kind of the edge? Like I'll say for me, like if I thought I have like kind of like a crazy unhinged neighbor, that's much more frightening to me than if somebody said like King Kong is coming or like your basement's K. R. Raye: Right. Liz: gonna be filled with spiders. Like I wouldn't love that either. But I'm definitely like, who's this person at the door bringing me a basket of muffins? Like, can I trust them? K. R. Raye: Yeah. Liz: I don't know. So I think that I would try to make the characters feel like people you know, like real people. I try to make the settings. I live in New Jersey and I've lived here my whole life in different towns, but all the towns where I've lived have felt very similar. So people will be like, you based it on this town. I'm like, it's kind of just a composite because all of these towns have the same value. Vibe, but I so I think like that's what I want people to come away. Like, I I also kind of point to social media, and there's a point in this one. There's a point in my first adult thriller, The Perfect Neighborhood, where a little boy goes missing on his walk home, and the mom has posted a photo of him, like, look at my big guy walking home from kindergarten alone. And the police are like, you know, this isn't you didn't mark this private. Like, you have the school sign, anybody knows where this kid is. And so I have had a few people say like and that is a discussion question I try to have discussion questions in the back of the book has this made you think a little bit differently about what you share on social media so I guess I want people to to kind of because kind of similar vibe when you watch a true crime documentary and you're like but that guy seems so normal what happened you know K. R. Raye: Everything was so normal, everything was so perfect, and this would have never happened in our neighborhood or I would have never assumed, right? That Liz: Right. K. R. Raye: is such a good part because two different things that you hit on. One is like how well do you truly know anyone and how close they could be to their breaking point at any moment in time. And then two, how much are we sharing about ourselves on social media and on the internet that You can find out within an instant something that you think is private, you don't think anybody's paying attention, and all of a sudden your whole world just unravels because Liz: Ex K. R. Raye: you posted that information and now somebody has maybe your child or somebody now is at your job or anything, right? And it just really Liz: Exactly. And that's exactly what happens in this book. That's how Amelia finds Ethan's wife because she posts on Facebook like, I got a groupon for hot yoga. Like who wants to join me? And Amelia's like, ding ding, I do. And of course then she does. And K. R. Raye: Sign me up! Liz: Exactly. And then she just kind of, you know, takes in everything about his wife. Like the wife opens the trunk and that opens an opportunity to be like, Hey, I'd love to buy those Girl Scout cookies and like it just kind of like she's like, I didn't drive here for nothing. I'm not leaving empty handed. I need more information. And of course as we're as we are trying to promote our books, we are putting ourselves out there. So sometimes I'm like, my God, what am we like what am I doing? Yeah, it's funny. That that thin line. K. R. Raye: I always have that moment in Misery, Stephen King's Misery, where it's like, Are you going to run across your number one fan, right? And it's just like, no Liz: Exactly. K. R. Raye: in the case of this is like, mm, yeah, you just didn't really want to come across Amelia going through her midlife crisis and plotting revenge at every turn. Liz: Exactly right. Thinking, okay, here's my new project. It's revenge. K. R. Raye: This a great way to think about it too. It's like, it's my new project, you know? So Liz: Exactly. Right. K. R. Raye: everyday and normal sounding, but mm, not quite. Liz: Exactly, K. R. Raye: that yeah, now I I have tingles and I'm I'm spiraling over here. It's like no, what Liz: You'll have to re you'll have to read the book, K. R.. Let me know. K. R. Raye: Ha ha ha. Excellent. And I'll ask you like a kind of a follow-up question. So Liz: Sure. K. R. Raye: when you're writing your novels, do you usually begin with the character, a plot or a what-if question or somewhere in between? Liz: that's a great question. I say I think with this one, the main character's voice came to me first. And I sort of, you know, I think like I said, I think it kind of came back to reading reviews where people were saying, This character makes bad choices. Or like I had written a rom com and this woman literally called me and was like, I wanna leave a review, but I just want you to know I would not be friends with her in real life. And I was like, Well, you don't have to. Because she's fictional. K. R. Raye: You don't have to. Liz: right? Like, because there's tons of people, you know, like, would you want to be friends with Hannibal Lecter? No, but that doesn't mean that you're K. R. Raye: No. Liz: not gonna read that book, watch that film. So that was like I kind of wanted to point out like those things early on and have Amelia say, like, if you're looking for friends in a book, maybe you should get out more. Or, you know, if if you if questionable choices are gonna bother you, stop reading right now. So it was K. R. Raye: Right now. Liz: right, it was that voice. That I wanted to kind of explore, and then see like what is driving her, what happened in her past to turn her into this kind of person. But I will say in the past I've had a plot, ideas for plot, but not character. And I think that's hard to try, especially I I work sometimes with multiple points of view. And if you can't make those distinct, it that's very challenging. So I'd almost rather have a character voice and build from there. How about you? K. R. Raye: same same thing. I even if I have a plot, it always comes exactly like you were saying. It's who are the characters that are going to make this plot come alive and why Liz: Exactly. K. R. Raye: are they in this situation? What drove them to what choices did they make to get to that part in the plot, right? And so totally agree. well. Excellent. Well Liz: I think that's what readers connect with is the and they remember the character, right? Like some we've read K. R. Raye: Exactly. Exactly. I mean that's Liz: stories where not a ton happens, but you connect with that character and you wanna live in their world with them for a while. K. R. Raye: And and their world is a very fascinating and scary place for quite a bit of time. So it's it's fun Liz: Exactly. K. R. Raye: to be able to go in that world with the characters to help guide you through this crazy, in this case, revenge filled world. Liz: Exactly right. Work out some of your own frustrations through this character. K. R. Raye: Exactly. that's the great part of being authors is that you get to work through some frustrations in the writing have some nice revenge points ourselves or kill off some folks in our words only and not in real life, right? So Liz: Exactly. Right. Right. That's what I will say. Like it's very cathartic in writing, not in not in not in the real world. K. R. Raye: Not in real life. That wraps up our whole interview section. And so we're going to go over to our Marketing Minute. And we all know how important marketing is for authors and creatives. In reality, everyone has to market themselves nowadays, whether it's for work, school, or in relationships. So, Liz, I am going to put 60 seconds on my timer. And I would love for you to share your best marketing advice or tip. So are you ready? Alrighty. Go ahead. Liz: Think so, yes. I'll try. It's a lot of pressure. Okay, well I would say never underestimate the power of meeting your readers in person and staying local. And whether that's tapping into local book clubs, your local library, even local magazines that run features about residents. I had someone write something about me when my first book came out, and my former dental hygienist found it, and she has been amazingly supportive. She will, like while she's doing you know her thing on patients. She will be recommending my books. And it's like they can't say no. And then she's purchased copies for friends for Christmas gifts. And then just ironically, same small tiny article, a woman who was publishing with the same publisher, a few towns away, reached out and said, Do you want to do an event with me? Let's meet for coffee. And I want to learn about your experience. I'll tell you about mine. And now we're good friends. And that's four years later. And so I would say, Okay, local. That's my thing. K. R. Raye: That was perfect. That excellent, excellent, excellent. And I so agree with that because I have done so many events with other authors where we've partnered together and had a lot of different book events, fairs, you name it, festivals. it's just a perfect way to do that. And I love how you mentioned your dentist. My dentist's office is some of my biggest fans as well. Liz: Isn't that great? I know it's so nice to have that support. Like, especially it's funny because I don't know about you, but for me, like the people you think will support you don't. And like, and even like my own mother will be like, Did that book come out yet? Was that this book? And K. R. Raye: Who Liz: I'm like, my God. But then here's my dental hygienist, like our insurance changed. We had to go elsewhere. And she is still like out K. R. Raye: Still. Liz: there working as my publicist. And I'm like, I've got to put you on the peri roll, Mary Beth. Like you're amazing. K. R. Raye: Exactly. Liz: If I had a payroll. K. R. Raye: my god, that is perfect Marketing Minute and tip. I absolutely love that. So Liz: thank you. K. R. Raye: well we are at time. So Liz, before we wrap up, I'll make sure to include the links in the notes, but where can Liz: they K. R. Raye: listeners connect with you online? Liz: thank you. I have a website, LizAlterman.com, and then on most social media channels, I'm at Liz Alterman. So I'm on Instagram, TikTok. I have a Substack newsletter where I kind of share a little behind the writing life. And then I always end with a cat photo. So if there are any cat fans in the audience, please please subscribe. It's great. K. R. Raye: Come on, cat lovers. We gotcha. Liz: Right. So I think those are my big my big places. But and I do I zoom into book clubs. So if anybody has a book club and if they're thriller fans, I'm always happy to to pop in via Zoom and and share a little bit about how the book came about. K. R. Raye: Excellent. Well, a big thank you to the listeners for joining our conversation, celebrating the characters and stories that stay with us, and the incredible people like Liz who bring them to life. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode. You can also continue the conversation by joining our Off-the-Page community at www.patreon.com/slash KRRAYE. That's www.p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot c o m slash K-R-R-A-Y-E. Liz, thank you so much for spending time with us today and sharing your wisdom. Liz: you're so sweet. Thank you for having me. It's always such a pleasure to speak with you. K. R. Raye: My pleasure. And to our lovely audience, thanks for joining us for this edition of Off the Page Podcast, wishing you peace, love, and happiness. Until next time. Thanks. Liz: Thank you.