Latest / Man in America Podcast / RedNote: A CCP Trojan Horse Deceiving the Right? w/ Levi Browde

Transcript

RedNote: A CCP Trojan Horse Deceiving the Right? w/ Levi Browde · Man in America Podcast

• 0:13
  Seth Holehouse: Welcome to Man in America. I'm your host, Seth Houlhouse. If you've seen my show before or if you followed me for some time, you know, there's one thing that is very central to my beliefs and the content that I produce. I am extremely anti communist. I hate communism.
• 0:33
  I believe that communism is Satan's own political branch. It is a system that has only left complete destruction in its wake. It's responsible for the deaths of over a hundred million people. It is the greatest atrocity that has ever ever been thrust upon mankind. I mean, I literally look at it as if if Satan was a politician or if communism would be his religion and his political ideology.
• 1:01
  It's just it is so destructive, and I've spent majority of my adult life trying to point out and expose the lies of communism and to help people break free from communism. Now there's been something happening that I felt like I needed to cover, and this might be somewhat of a controversial show, which is kind of strange to think like that because it's just anti communist. And I'd say that most of you watching are also anti communist, at least I hope. But if you're not, then maybe you'll learn something. You'll become anti communist.
• 1:30
  But so with the TikTok ban approaching, there's this other app called Rednote. I'm also seeing people referred to as the Little Red Book, which is interesting because if we look I'll pull up for you really quickly here. What what is the Little Red Book? The Little Red Book. The Little Red Book.
• 1:50
  Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. The Little Red Book was actually the book that Mao wrote that was forced upon the entire society, and that was a big part of the massive communist campaigns that left millions and millions dead. So there's literally this app that some people are referring to as the Little Red Book app, which is a direct correlation to one of the most deadly pieces of literature ever written in the history of mankind was Mao's Little Red Book, and there's a lot of questions I have.
• 2:25
  Now what I'm seeing, though, is that because there's a again, the the concern of TikTok going away, all these people are now going to this Red Note app, which is a very Chinese app. But then what I'm seeing, though, is that people are talking about they've seen the light. Like, they're they're all of a sudden come to this conclusion that, wow. Like, China's not what I thought it was. China is this beautiful country that's very modern and advanced, and the people are happy, and they're given good food, and they can make an earning, and they can support their family.
• 2:59
  This is what they're seeing on the app. Now these are people that, you know, they actually here's an example. Right? So Kim Iverson, someone who I have a lot of respect for. I think she's a fantastic journalist.
• 3:11
  And I'm not I'm not saying that she has is as in in is ill intentioned here. I'm just sharing this as a for for commentary's sake. So she just put this post out. It says, just downloaded the Xiaohuangshu app. Banning TikTok is going to massively backfire.
• 3:26
  The app is showing Americans a completely different view of China. It's obvious China is the new world. Now I appreciate Jordan say they're commenting. They're saying good luck with your new spyware, but this is one of a lot of different posts that I'm seeing from people on Twitter. It's the same messaging.
• 3:45
  It's this messaging of, oh, now that I see the little red the the the RedNote app, and I'm seeing the real lives of the Chinese people. Wow. China's amazing, and gosh, my evil government has been lying to me and convinced me that China's evil, but actually, China's not evil and people are happy. And I think somehow, these these people have forgotten the videos that were coming out of China during the lockdowns, during the COVID lockdowns when people were being welded into their apartment buildings, like, for one, it's like, oh, you wanna go live there? It's like, yeah.
• 4:21
  Our government like, trust me. I'll be the first person to admit. There's a lot of evil in our government. There is a deep state. There's a lot of evil in the government of Israel, which has a lot of control over our government.
• 4:33
  Okay? There it is. It's out there. I'm not denying those things. But just because just because our own government has some evil in it, it doesn't mean that the opposing government of China, the CCP, must be good.
• 4:46
  Like, I've come to conclusion where I'm convinced that most governments are now evil. Like, most governments have turned evil, at this day and age in in the year 02/2025. I think most governments have actually been heavily corrupted, and it's just the state of the world. But it's just wild to to see what I feel like is not this is not organic. I don't think this is just some organic process.
• 5:08
  I think that what's going on here is that this is a new round of CCP backed psychological warfare, which if you've studied the CCP, then you look and you read books like unrestricted warfare, or if you've read through the speech of the leaked speech of general Qi Haoqian, it's very obvious that the CCP is on is is at war with China, but it's not a sorry. It's at war with America. But the CCP's war against America is not kinetic yet. It might be, but it is unrestricted warfare. It is psychological warfare.
• 5:45
  It's economic warfare. It is patent and intellectual theft warfare. It is creating fentanyl channels, you know, funding the cartels. It's drug warfare that the CCP is actively working right now to destroy America. And when you look around in America, you look at the BLM riots in America, it's like, oh, yeah.
• 6:05
  Those were also heavily backed by the CCP. You look at so many aspects of our society that have been absolutely destroyed. So much of this goes back to the CCP. And so it makes me wonder, like, how is it that people can have such a short memory where it's like now, like, everything is about Israel. And look.
• 6:24
  Trust me. I've done some deep, deep dives into the Israel's, into the Jews, I've I've come to a lot of conclusions there, there's definitely a lot going on there. Trust me. I'm not saying that they're innocent because they're not. But but it doesn't mean that the CCP is good all of a sudden.
• 6:42
  Like, this is this is wild to to think that this is where we're at. We're literally you have people saying that, you know, again, Kim, you know, I have a lot of respect for her as a journalist saying that it's obvious China is the new world. Even the messaging there, China is the new world. Folks, wake up call. China, the CCP, they have their own vision for the world by 2049, and this is something that started with Mao Zedong.
• 7:12
  It's a hundred year march. And their goal by 2049 is to be the dominant world power to rule the world. China, the CCP wants a new world order. They want to be the ones at the seat of the table. Now look.
• 7:27
  I also know that there is a Western alliance. There's a lot of other people around the world. There's the banker there's the bankers of Europe. There's Israel. There's the Zionists.
• 7:35
  There's a lot of other factions that also want to control the world. But to think that everything is just this pyramid, there's one central control group, I disagree with that. All of my research has shown me that there are multiple factions battling for world control. And at the center of one of those factions that wants to absolutely decimate and level The United States is the Chinese Communist Party. And so for people to all of a sudden be thinking that, again, like, major influence, I'm seeing lots of viral, you know, viral viral, you know, posts on Twitter of people praising China and saying, wow.
• 8:12
  Like, I I've I've seen the light with this Red Note app, but people don't realize or they've forgotten what's actually happening in China right now. They've forgotten what happened during COVID, the people being welded into their apartment units. They have forgotten or maybe they weren't aware of the fact that China, the state, right, the Chinese Communist Party is running a state run organ harvesting operation of its own people. Look. If you're Christian and you wanted to go to China and you bring your King James Bible there, they're gonna confiscate it.
• 8:44
  You can't have that Bible in China. They have they have restrictions. They have an edited version of the Bible that you can you can have that they've edited out a lot of the miracles of Christ in their Bible. So there's a lot of Christians. There's a lot of underground house Christians in China that if they get caught, they're going into black jails.
• 9:02
  And once they're in the black jails, they get put into the organ database. The Falun Gong, there's a massive, massive community of the Falun Gong practitioners, a peaceful meditation practice in China that literally are sitting in prison camps right now or sitting in hospitals and detention camps, and the hospitals are underneath the hospitals and prisons. Like, I've I've researched this extensively. They are all part of a living organ database. So the Chinese government, this Chinese Communist Party is literally arresting their own citizens because of their spiritual beliefs or because they have the wrong version of the Bible.
• 9:36
  They're putting them into black prisons, and they're putting them into labor camps. But then you have all these wealthy people around the world that need a liver, and it's like, oh, it's only a two or three week wait to get a liver from China. That's a miracle. No. It's not a miracle.
• 9:51
  They are literally killing to order. So if you need a liver and you go to China to get a liver, they are literally taking someone in their database that matches your blood type and what you need, and they are killing them and selling you their organs. And this is happening to this very day. So for anybody who says, gosh, our American government is so evil, I'd rather live in China, either they're ignorant of what's happening in China, they're being paid off, they're being controlled, or some other reason that I can't understand because I I've been to China multiple times. Like, I used to spend almost three months out of every year between over my primarily in Hong Kong, but Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan.
• 10:37
  So I'm not just some guy that, you know, sitting in, you know, in his flannel shirt in America thinking I know what life is like over in China. I've been there. A lot of my friends came out of Chinese prison camps. I've this is stuff that's, like, very, very near and dear to me. My wife, who's Australian, she's, white as can white can be, was arrested in Tiananmen Square in the early two thousands for protesting human rights abuses in China.
• 11:02
  She was arrested there. Right? It's one of our commonalities. We both hate communism. It's been a great relationship because of So, anyway, this is just like it's just amazing to me.
• 11:11
  And and what I see now, I might be wrong, but I really believe that this whole trend with this red note and the fact that it's going viral on Twitter and and everyone's kind of flocking to it. They have this new beautiful idea of China. I think that what this is is some sort of new campaign by the CCP. It's a campaign of basically corralling people that should be the ones that are outspoken against communism. They're fighting against communism and fighting for the constitution and freedom, the patriots, that they're trying to coop this movement and that that these people saying, oh, yeah.
• 11:42
  You know, China's the new world. It's very frightening to me. And so joining me for today's show is a guy named Levi Brody, who is the executive director of the Falun Dafa Information Center. He's a guy that has been, you know, really fighting against the Chinese Communist Party for many, many decades, and that has a deep, deep knowledge and understanding of what modern China is like. So, folks, I hope that you enjoyed this interview.
• 12:08
  I hope that it's enlightening to you. And if you are moved, if you if you watch this interview and you feel like it's important, I hope you can share it with your friends and family because we have to get this kind of information out. Now look, I don't wanna say that all the evils of the world are caused by the CCP because no. Like, I I trust me. There's a lot coming out of Europe.
• 12:26
  There's a lot coming out of The Middle East. There's a lot coming out of our own government. So there's evil in all these different places, but again, I don't want us to fall for some sort of psychological operation where all of a sudden, we think that one of the the most tyrannical governments in the world, which is the Chinese Communist Party, is somehow good. Like, it did to me, it's it's mind blowing. Right?
• 12:47
  It's it's crazy that that we can think that. I mean, look at the social credit score system in China. Like, go find some videos over there. Like, watch what's what life is really like in China. And then, again, the Chinese are the masters the the masters, especially the CC, the masters of propaganda, and the masters of censorship.
• 13:04
  So do you think that this Red Note app I mean, honestly, ask yourself this. If you were a Chinese dissident, say you were a house Christian in China, and say your mom was taken away and she's in a labor camp. If you took your phone and and you're like, hey. You know, hey. Americans Americans, please.
• 13:20
  Like, my mom's in a torture. My mom's being tortured for being a Christian. Please get this message out on Rednote. Do you think that post is gonna go viral on a state run app? No.
• 13:31
  What's gonna be going viral on these apps? It's like, wow. Look at my fancy car in Beijing, and look at this technology. And, of course, there's amazing things over in China. They've got amazing technology.
• 13:41
  They've got a great high speed high speed rail system. Like, they're they're way more advanced in America in certain ways, but there's still a totalitarian regime that slaughters its own citizens and sells their organs on the not even the black market, the state run organ market. So, anyway, folks, as you can tell, I'm a little a little bit passionate about this discussion because it's really, really important to the future of America for us to understand that communism is bad and that China, though they want to make you think they've opened up and they're capitalist, it's still being ruled by an iron fist. And if you step outside of what they want you to do in that country, you will be put into a prison. You will have your organs cut out of you.
• 14:22
  You will be tortured. I've met I've met dozens, if not hundreds of people, and and personally talk to them about these exact stories. It's still going on today, folks. So, folks, please enjoy this interview with Levi Brody. Do you keep hearing more cases of your friends and family getting a life threatening diagnosis of cancer, or perhaps it's even happened to you?
• 14:43
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• 16:48
  Mister Levi Brody, it's an honor to have you on the show. Thank you very much for giving me your time today.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. It's great to be here.
• 16:57
  Seth Holehouse: So you are the executive director of I'll I'll bring up the website of falleninfo.net. Right? The Fallen Dafa Information Center. And I know that I've been following the work of fallen for quite some time, you know, even going back to some of my my work in, with the Epoch Times, and it was a key resource for us in understanding what's happening inside of China, the the the true nature of what's going on inside of China. But, give us just a a quick background before we jump into today's, you know, topics and discussion of, so what's Falun Gong?
• 17:31
  How like, what's your role in this? What's how does it tie into modern day China, and why is this something that people in America should really be concerned about? Right? We have so many threats and so many things that, you know, within our own government or other countries. Why why should people care about this practice over in China?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Sure. So briefly, Falun Gong is a Buddhist based spiritual practice. And like many what they call qigong or, Chinese yoga practices, these kind of practices of mind and body spirit development in China were very popular for thousands of years. But Falun Gong was introduced for the first time in 1992. So during the 1990s, became wildly popular.
• 18:15
  If you go into any park, any village in China, people were practicing Falun Gong. One hundred million people by the government's own estimates by the turn of the century. However, that number was very large. The Chinese government, particularly the top leaders said, okay, this is way more people than even members of the Communist Party. So in 1999, he ordered this practice again, that was at that time very beloved, very embraced by the Chinese people to be crushed, to wiped out.
• 18:42
  And so for the last twenty five years, if you practice Falun Gong in China, you are subject to arbitrary detention, torture, death by torture, death by forced organ extraction. It's been horrific. And but the problem is the persecution is not limited to the Chinese borders. For throughout these twenty five years, the Chinese regime has engaged in transnational oppression against the Falun Gong diaspora all around the world, but particularly here in The United States. And so I think for Americans, while it is also a terrible human rights tragedy that we should care about just on the moral principles of it, it is also a, unfortunately, a quintessential example of CCP influence on US soil and the dangers of that influence to manipulate American society to control the levels of power here.
• 19:32
  It's it's a big red flag and a big sort of canary in the coal mine for that whole issue. So that's really sort of at a very high level what what the Falun Gong issue.
• 19:41
  Seth Holehouse: And so you mentioned kinda looking at clearing of coal mine of of the influence that China has over America. And what's interesting, you know, for me observing from my standpoint being in independent media and what, you know, some might call the alt right media, right, is I'm seeing you know, I've seen a trend of, say, two or three years ago, there was a very strong anti communist sentiment. There still is, but it was a also, was a very keen awareness to the role of the CCP. And I was doing shows on the CCP and, their their overall plan against America and unrestricted warfare, their their final war, their long march towards global domination by 2049. And I was talking about a lot of these topics and saw a lot of people that were really kind of embracing that idea.
• 20:29
  But what's interesting, though, is it seems like there's been a shift, and now I'm seeing more and more people, even more conservative people that are saying, well, you know, China is really the boogeyman. They're not really a threat. Our threat is Israel. Our threat is our own government, or there's been this shift away from China. And what I've what I've seen even so, you know, more recently is as we're approaching, you know, the the TikTok, TikTok, app ban, which it looks like maybe Kik might be a buyer for it to, you know, keep it alive because it that was the agreement is that he had to have a western buyer that was gonna own a a majority of the operations outside of China for it to be allowed to be in America still.
• 21:06
  So it looks like there's a buyer. There's the idea of Elon Musk might be a buyer for it, but it looks like it might continue. But what's interesting, though, is that there's been this other app called, Rednote. And I think the app icon is maybe it's it's it's red. It's very CCP looking.
• 21:20
  It reminds you of Mal's little red book. But I'm seeing I'll pull up some information of people that, like, here, for instance, this is, Kim Iverson, who is a fantastic journalist journalist. I saw her tweet this, just yesterday, and, I thought it just something no. Actually, it was early this morning, I think. Something seemed really off.
• 21:40
  She said just downloaded the, Xiaohong Shu app. I think it was with the Red Note app. And she says banning TikTok is going to massively backfire. The app is showing Americans a completely different view of China. It's obvious China is the new world.
• 21:55
  And this is someone you know, Kim is very aware of, you know, like, the the the deep state, and she's covered extensive stuff. So it was odd seeing that, but then I saw another post talking about this. This is a woman that was in China. This post was going viral. And she says the real, plot twist, some Western media has been busy painting China as a threat while Americans are waking up to the fact that they've been exposed to propaganda for years.
• 22:19
  Americans are scrolling through and seeing the actual high quality life in China, peaceful, safe, and clean cities, modern infrastructure, thriving tech, and education systems that elevated generations to create technology. So you have this this whole narrative emerging that is painting this picture that our government has been demonizing China as evil, but it's just part of our own government's propaganda and that China is this great place. And I've got one, video to show. This right here really summarize, I think, what's going on. So this is it says, MAGA TikToker in red note, and can't believe how China has outachieved The United States.
• 22:56
  Anyway, I'll play this really quickly. It's a little over a minute long. And listen to this because this to me, this minute long video represents what I think is the pinnacle of what I feel like is some sort of campaign by the CCP that to to actually dupe the MAGA movement.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: The government has been lying to us about China for decades. Now that we've all gotten on Red and we can see the lifestyle that all of the Chinese people have, a lot of us Americans are pissed. The price of going out to eat, the price of groceries, public transportation, and the people on Red Note are so flabbergasted that we have to work two jobs just to keep our roof over our head. US government, you up big time, which is not a surprise because you do it constantly. Even if TikTok gets banned, I've seen enough.
• 23:38
  I have been woken up. I grew up fed propaganda that China is evil and that they treat their citizens like shit. I mean, I was raised by MAGA. It's the main reason why I feel so radicalized. American culture, American society is toxic, gross, poisonous.
• 23:55
  They poison our food. They jack the prices up of everything. We don't get health care. We don't get good public transportation even though we're all on the same fucking continent. We destroy the planet for money, power, and control.
• 24:07
  Our government is funky as on the left and on the right. Don't get it twisted. This is a class war, and I will not be giving this fight up. We deserve sovereign
• 24:18
  Seth Holehouse: So those are some strong war. I mean, this is a what he this guy refers to as a MAGA influencer that is now because she's now using the Rednote app, which is, you know, showing her she's realizing that, wow. What I'm seeing on this app, China is this beautiful place where they have this advanced technology and the citizens are free. They have good food. They're taken care of.
• 24:39
  And I'm not sure how people have forgotten the scenes from COVID where they're welding the apartment doors shut in China when you have the the videos of the people crying at night because they're all welded into their apartment complexes. I mean, it just seems like, and maybe I'm looking too far into this, but I feel like that this woman, maybe not intentionally, but there's some sort of money or influence coming from China that's trying to now create this campaign that the the American government and the Israeli government and the Western governments are pure evil. And look. I'll be the first to agree. There's a lot of evil in these governments.
• 25:14
  I'm not gonna say they're innocent. But when she's saying that we've been brainwashed to think that China is evil, now she's realizing it's not. I mean, I know that through your work, Levi, you're constantly communicating with people that have come out of China, that are still in China, that you're on the forefront of understanding what's really going on in China, especially if you're someone that is kind of classified as one of the spiritual dissidents or one of the enemies of the state. So how would you respond to this?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So I think the first question is what are we looking at? And I think there could be two possible, perhaps more, but two possible answers. One is we know that the Chinese regime has extensive influence operations to buy cajole or somehow convince influencers to just say what we said. So are we looking at an actor Because that happens at a scale far more than I think we're even aware of right now, where you just get influences that either they were paid or something to deliver a message and that's what she's doing. She doesn't believe what she says, but that's what she's doing.
• 26:19
  So that's one option of what we're looking at. The other option what we're looking at is someone who generally feels this way and actually was kind of looking at that app convinced of this thing and is telling you her true thoughts. Both exist. But on the latter option, I think we have to understand about the TCP is they are the king of the false equivalency. I always remember, like, during one of
• 26:43
  Mel K: the mass
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: shootings, the Golden State Warriors were touring in China at the time, and their head coach Steve Kerr, known as a very intelligent man, sort of, you know, liberal, but very savvy, intelligent person. And some one of the reporters asked him, what about all the human rights abuses in China? He sat there for a minute and he goes, well, what about our mass shootings? What about this? He's literally comparing a nation which conservative estimates have said is responsible for 60 to a hundred million people killed, died under the Chinese regime over the last seventy years.
• 27:22
  He's comparing us to a regime that right now is guilty of not one, not two, but three ongoing genocides against the Uighurs, the Tibetans, and the Falun Gong. So you just just take that big picture. So that kind of nation, and he's in his mind saying, well, what about and don't get me wrong, mass shootings are horrific and terrible, but an occurrence of several mass shootings is not equivalent to a tyrannical regime that is responsible for 100,000,000 deaths of its own citizens that has ongoing genocides. I mean, these are two very different worlds. But I think the CCP is a master at at the false equivalency, at trying to get nations and people like perhaps this TikToker we just watched to not see the magnitude of the difference and to focus on and utilize really the person's own emotions because, again, if this was option two, if this was a person genuinely speaking or feeling, obviously, there's feelings.
• 28:20
  Obviously, The United States isn't perfect, and and they're honing in on that, and they're trying to weaponize that to take down The US. So I think it it sort of depends on what we're looking at. Both options are definitely pervasive, and they're out there. But those two things are very much at work, and I think they're part of this whole equation of trying to influence how Americans feel about their own country.
• 28:40
  Seth Holehouse: And there's one thing that I can say too, because I've I've worked with a lot of Chinese over the years of of doing, you know, work to counteract that, you know, different things are happening within China. And I can say that, to me, there's a big difference between China and the CCP. Like, I love China. I love the Chinese history. You know, I love I've read a lot of the the the Chinese great novels, Journey to the West, Outlaws of the Marsh.
• 29:00
  Like, I'm fascinated by the deep, you know, five thousand plus year culture of China. But, you know, China is not the CCP, and the CCP is not China. And I think that the the the CCP, especially, you know, you mentioned the kind of the the false representation and the propaganda. They're they're absolutely masters of it, and this is what I've seen because I've been to China many times. I've spent you know, I used to spend three or four months every year in Hong Kong, you know, doing business in Hong Kong.
• 29:27
  I've been to Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, you know, quite a lot. And I can tell you that China is a place that I was mostly in Southern China where almost anything you look at, you go to a nice hotel or whatever it is, on the surface, it looks beautiful. And it looks like it's like some sort of palace out of, you know, Paris. But then when you look at the details behind it, you can see that it's not. It's plastic.
• 29:49
  There's, you know, there there's kind of poor building materials. It's it's so they're they're the masters at creating a surface perception. And what I think is happening with this RedNote app that everyone's now flocking to is that what they're they're doing is that I'm sure that there's massive levels of censorship. I doubt there's anybody on there saying, hey. My social credit score is only 500, so I couldn't even ride the bus today because I was questioning Xi Jinping's leadership.
• 30:17
  Or I shared a poo meme, you know, three years ago, and now I can't, you know, buy a house because I'm sure that that stuff's not making it into the app. And I'm so it sounds like what they're doing, though, is that they're using this app to give this very select, you know, kinda window into China. And not to say that the the people of China are good people. I've I mean, now a lot them, though, I think they have been influenced by living under communism, and they're they're atheist, and there's a lot of immorality there that I've seen and experienced. And and but I think that these the soul of the nation is is virtuous and good, and the people want goodness.
• 30:50
  And so I that's my my perception as well is that that they've done is they've created this kind of facade. They put a they put a lipstick on a pig. Right? And they're making people think that, oh, because I see all these people on this Red Note app that are loving life in China. It's like, the Chinese like like, how have we forgotten that they're communist, and the communists are the masters of disguise, the masters of propaganda and information war?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, a couple of things come to mind. I think we typically when we hear that the communists are master of propaganda, we kinda tend to think about those really on the nose, obviously, propagandistic sort of posters from the sixties and the seventies. So we're like, who falls for that stuff? I mean, all that sort of old world, you know, you look at the Bolsheviks and and when Mao was coming to power and the kind of propaganda we think, that's just ridiculous. Nobody's doing that anymore.
• 31:41
  That doesn't exist. And then a lot of people's minds, that's what Chinese propaganda looks like or or as you correctly point out, CCP propaganda. But it's far more sophisticated than that. Far more sophisticated. It is their core competency.
• 31:54
  I remember, general Spaulding who was for many years, he was the senior military attache to China, fluent in Chinese. He was testifying in congress last year. I think one of the things he was trying to convey is that if you look at the array of threats that the CCP presents to United States, obviously, there's military, there's political, there's economic. And he was thinking you guys are he essentially said, I'll paraphrase him, you're missing the main thing. The main thing is messaging.
• 32:19
  The main thing is propaganda. It's their top priority because that's how they're not gonna win or they're not gonna topple The United States with a military confrontation. Even economically, it's very diff difficult. The way they're gonna do it is without firing a shot, with it with the ability over many, many years of getting Americans to hate their country, think well of the CCP, and all the things that come with that. You know, I'm I'm reminded of a of a story from one of my friends who went who went back to China.
• 32:49
  She's Taiwan. And she's one of these families. Right? They came over to Chiang Kai shek, and they lived in Taiwan for decades and decades under a democracy. They were just they were reunite you're gonna be reuniting with their their family in the Mainland after, like, fifty, sixty years.
• 33:03
  And they were thinking going there, China's so ahead of everything. They saw the fast trains and the and the skyscrapers. And they were, like, very excited. And they went back, and they met their in laws, and they came back to Taiwan. And they're like, China's not fifty years ahead of us.
• 33:20
  They're three generations behind because the common living under communism, a real regime, a tyrannical regime so messes up the psyche, so destroys the family unit, the community unit, that just recovering from that psychologically in the community is gonna take a generation or two. And that was sort of an moment of what the actual CCB had done to the Chinese people, its culture, its communities itself. And I thought that was a real kind of eye opener and sort of cuts through whatever this nonsense that Red Note is trying to convince the world of.
• 33:55
  Seth Holehouse: And and that will you know, my experience was similar in being there. And there absolutely are areas which are very, very well developed. You know, I've never been to Beijing or Shanghai, but I've got a lot of friends that, you know, have lived there and and traveled there. I know that there are certain areas that are very, very advanced, you know, high speed rails and everything, but then there's also the the rural China. There's the areas that aren't the places where they want the Western world to see, and it's a third world country.
• 34:22
  I mean, these are places where, you know, factories are openly dumping pollutants into the rivers or upstream of villages, and the villagers are all dying of cancer. They go to protest it. The factory pays off the local CCP boss. They bring out thugs to beat up all the villagers and steal their homes. They go to Beijing to petition against what just happened in their local region, and they're arrested and put into black jails.
• 34:43
  And then they end up the they probably have their organs harvested. And this that's just this is the reality of of modern day China. But even with the the organ harvesting, this is something that I I kinda go back on because I've had different discussions with people that say, look. There's a you know, the West has become very evil. They're doing bad things.
• 35:00
  I was like, yeah. There's a lot of bad stuff going on in the West, and, you know, if you look at even the origins of COVID, now it ties into the labs here in America. Okay. There's some very suspicious ties that do point to our own government, but what I would say, though, is that our government is not openly running an organ harvesting operation of its own citizens. Right?
• 35:18
  So give us a little insight into that. If someone is you're not familiar with that, what is the scale? What is what is the is I mean, is there this state run organ harvesting operation that's still continuing, like, even to this day over in China?
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Very much so. And this was was probably the most horrific thing that came out of the whole Falun Gong persecution. We first started hearing about this in the mid 2000s. And I think the first whistleblower to one was the wife of a surgeon came forward, then you had other people, other doctors coming forward, victims coming forward. So essentially, what we what we learned in the latter part of the '2 thousands is that, you know, again, when when Falun Gong was first persecuted, you had 100,000,000 people around the around the country.
• 36:01
  And so very quickly, the CCP had hundreds of thousands and then over a million Falun Gong practitioners being held in various detention centers at that time when they had labor camps, labor camps and facilities, most of whom were not given their name. So no one knew where they were. And here they were practicing Falun Gong, which means they don't drink, they don't smoke, they're very healthy, they meditate. The ideal candidate for an organ donation. China was not even a player really on the organ transplantation business back then.
• 36:32
  They surged, I think in the span of ten, twelve years to become number two in the whole world. And according to the China Tribunal, which was this year long investigation that was held in London about back in 2019, '20 '19 rather, they found that tens of thousands, according to their numbers, tens of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners were being killed each year to harvest their organs and fuel this organ transplantation business. And, again, it was a business. You looked at the curve. It was unprecedented how China went from almost nobody to to the number two player in the world.
• 37:09
  And some of this stuff was very you know, it's not like it was all anecdotal or things like that. I mean, there was very obvious things. For example, one of the key investigators, who's the former, China, former official in Canada for the Asia Pacific region, they would actually get on a phone with the hospital in China, the administrator, some cases, the doctor pretending to be someone who needed an organ. And they'd ask him, hey, when could I get this done? And they said you could schedule it a week or two ahead of time.
• 37:40
  Well, anybody who knows the organ transplant business, obviously, you have to choose usually years you're waiting, you have to wait till someone dies in a car accident or something that the only way they could schedule it a week or two in advance is that had someone prescreened for their blood type and all the other things they need to screen for, ready to kill for when you to come into China. And they even a couple of times would even admit these were Falun Gong people. I mean, so they were openly talking about this on the phones. It was absolutely shocking. It was so shocking, I think, that a lot of the world had trouble with it.
• 38:13
  I mean, it was very hard for people to believe that something so evil would be happening in such a, know, at that time, rapidly developing country, a country that's part of the WTO, a country that's sort of active trade with the with The United States in so many levels. And so it really faced a lot of pushback. I think it wasn't really until that tribunal in 2019 that some of the major media started picking up. The Guardian started looking at this and said, oh, we I think we have a real problem. And one of the key findings of the tribunal was that, you know, initially, obviously, the Chinese government denied it.
• 38:47
  And then after enough evidence came out, they said, oh, we're not doing that anymore. Not perhaps realizing that's tacitly admitting they were doing it. But one of the things the tribunal found out in 2019, yes, it's still very much happening today, and it's now no longer just Falun Gong. It spilled over into Uighurs, perhaps house Christians, and others. And this this is very much still happening in China today.
• 39:12
  Seth Holehouse: And that's something also I think a lot of people that, I've kind of, you know, mentioned in kind of more conservative alternative media, a lot of them are strong Christians, and they don't understand that their Bible they brought their Bible, King James or red letter by whatever their Bible they're reading into China, it would be seized. And if they're lucky, they wouldn't be arrested for it Because even the official CCP bible, they've they've actually edited out a lot of the miracles of Christ because they don't want I mean, because fundamentally, you know, the CCP is God, but they'll let you have your your religion as long as it doesn't step on the toes of the CCP. And so you're right. There's a massive amount of underground Christians that have had their organs harvested, as well as the fallen gong. And so but one thing I wanna ask you, though, is is as we're looking at their influence over what's happening here in America, I think that a lot of us have seen, especially in the past couple of years, that our our mainstream media has been weaponized against We the People.
• 40:06
  It was weaponized against Donald Trump. It's been weaponized against really anybody that doesn't follow the particular narrative that they want you to follow. But how much control would you say that the CCP has over our media? Because if you look at the fact that there's this really, that you you mentioned three ongoing genocides, organ harvesting, you know, etcetera. If this was happening in Rwanda, our media would be all over it.
• 40:31
  Right? But I've I you rarely see the coverage like this. And, I remember when I lived in New York City, and I worked in newspaper industry there, I'd pick up sometimes a Wall Street Journal or New York Times. I'd open up, and, oh, there's a China Daily inside. Like, there's literally a a state run Chinese English, newspaper, which is a propaganda, literally a propaganda mouthpiece of this Chinese Communist Party that was stuffed inside of the Wall Street Journal, and I I I couldn't believe it.
• 40:57
  I was like, oh my gosh. Like, it's it's this deep. So in your assessment, though, especially looking back on the media's coverage or the the lack of coverage of these genocides, how much control do you think the CCP has over our our media here in America?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, this is always tough because, you know, my people like myself, we're not in the backrooms of this media. We don't know sort of the decisions are being made, but there is very clear trends and very clear data that we could look at, which I think paint a pretty obvious picture. So let's go back to the the beginning of the persecution of Falun Gong back in ninety nine, two thousand. At that time, some of the media was doing a very, very good work. The Wall Street Journal actually won a Pulitzer Prize in the year February.
• 41:42
  They were the first ones who went through China and documented that, yes, indeed, Falun Gong are being tortured and they're being tortured to death in prisons around China. And that was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, Pulitzer Prize. The Washington Post followed that up, and they were the first ones who got like a a Chinese official on record to say this is not just rogue police officers. This is from Beijing, from the top. They're mandating the use of violence.
• 42:05
  They're mandating the use of brainwashing against Falun Gong. Groundbreaking work. Then about 02/2002, '2 thousand and '3, everything goes silent. Even though the heartbeat of the data, which I would say is largely in the human rights organizations, is still there. Every year you hear about the torture of Falun Gong, the widespread detention of Falun Gong.
• 42:25
  At 02/2002, '2 thousand and '3, it all goes silent. So a couple of things there. We actually met with some we had some media meeting with in Australia leading up to the two thousand eight Olympics, and they just openly came out and told us. If we cover Falun Gong, it's now a third rail issue. If we cover Falun Gong, we can't go into China and cover the Olympics.
• 42:44
  Sorry. Now though least those are the guys who are telling the truth. The other things we've seen is that there have been media over the years that have tried know, they booked an interview with a Falun Gong person or they booked something to to cover the Forster and Harveyston story. You know, the Washington Post is an example of this, and they called the embassy, the Chinese embassy in Washington to get a comment. Guess what?
• 43:04
  Later that afternoon, the story is killed. This happened time after time after time after time. So this is another obvious thing that we know. I think the most egregious example, although it's not the only one, would be the New York Times. And the New York Times really, I would say, has had a Falun Gong problem from the very beginning.
• 43:23
  When the persecution first started, they were one of the few media that was repeating CCP propaganda verbatim, like not even quoting that, just sort of, if the CCP called Falun Gong cult, they just said that. For many, many years, they completely ignored the persecution. And we did a whole study on this, by the way, we went through like 160 articles over a span of twenty five years in New York Times, and found absolutely egregious ignorance about the persecution. And we even have graphs that show, you know, Uyghurs, they covered up here, Tibetans, they covered up here, and Falun Gong way down here, almost nothing. And so there it was very clearly they were avoiding discussing the Falun Gong issue until they went on the offensive, until the Falun Gong diaspora gave rise to arts organizations, media organizations, human rights organizations that were a potent force on the world stage for airing the dirty laundry of the CCP.
• 44:23
  At that point, coincidence or not, that's when the New York Times turned focus and really all their articles about the Falun Gong topics certainly this past year, but really going back to 2018 or so, have been not on the persecution. They've by the account of one of their own reporters, they've actually tried to hide or downplay or kill the story of forest dork and harvesting. They've really turned their focus on the Falun Gong diaspora and the talking points, the framing, the narratives that they're using, willingly or not.
• 44:59
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• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Are perfectly in line with what Beijing has wanted to do and their approach, their propaganda towards Falun Gong. And I think that's a huge red flag that there's such an alignment there, and that's one of the more disturbing things we're seeing. So back to your question, what's the level of influence in operation? Just looking at the data, just looking at the trends, it doesn't look good.
• 47:10
  Seth Holehouse: And so what about I know they've also heavily attacked the Shen Yun. Right? The, the so here we go. China before communism. Right?
• 47:19
  This is a new traditional Chinese dance. And you'd think it's like, okay. Well, why would the CCP and threw their tentacles into the media or, you know, the agencies or control they have here, why would they be attacking this dance company, which most people have seen the billboards for this or the commercials, and I've seen the show a handful of times. It's it's it's a beautiful show. I mean, it's it's like you walk out of it thinking, like, wow.
• 47:42
  Like, I I just kind of, like, saw some part of heaven or something. But what explain, like, what is Shen Yun and, like, what's happening? Like, why are the media, like, attacking Shen Yun? Like, what's happening here? Like, what do think's behind this?
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I mean, this is a great example of the larger influence operations and what's motivating them and the scope of their effectiveness. So Shen Yun was founded by Falun Gong practitioners back in 02/2006. And really the idea back then was there was there was a broad awareness in the Falun Gong community, especially the diaspora that the persecution of Falun Gong really wasn't just about Falun Gong.
• 48:20
  Because if you look at Falun Gong, you know, it's Buddhist based teachings. It embraces principles like compassion and honesty and forbearance. It was heartland Chinese. It was sort of like it was hard to separate authentic Chinese culture really with Falun Gong entirely, and that is a general phenomenon in the West. The line between faith and everyday life, secular life is a little bit more intertwined than you think of it in the West.
• 48:45
  But it was really an outgrowth of traditional Chinese culture. It had the spirituality of it. And so when they went after Falun Gong, in many respects, it was like the last nail in the coffin to completely destroy authentic Chinese culture. So the communist ideology would have absolutely no challenge. And so when some who are proficient in arts, choreography, dance, what they realized is, okay, this culture, the real Chinese culture is about to be wiped out of the face of the earth.
• 49:12
  Let's build a place where we can revive it, teach it to the next generation and share it with the world. And so they built a campus up in Upstate New York called Dragon Springs. And Dragon Springs has an academy and a college, but it's also the headquarters of Shen Yun. And Shen Yun, the whole point of that was let's show this culture to the world. Now, by doing that, however, what they're really doing from the CCP perspective is two things.
• 49:39
  They're showing how beautiful and wonderful China is without communism. That's the first thing. The second thing they're doing is, you know, the show spans five thousand years of history. You see a little of the Tang dynasty, the Han dynasty, but it has a couple pieces of modern day China. And so it's showing the tyranny of the CCP today, And it's showing the peaceful resilience of Falun Gong people and others standing up to that tyranny today.
• 50:05
  And so that was the second thing. On stage for the world to see literally over a million people every year, the tyranny of the CCP, what it's really like. And so for those two reasons, that China is a wonderful spiritual place without communism and that the modern day tyranny of China is real, those two messages very clearly come through the show. And for those two reasons, the CCP really makes sabotaging, canceling Shen Yun one of its top priorities. I mean, at this point, you know, Shen Yun's been around for eighteen years.
• 50:37
  Every single theater they've performed at around the world at some point has gotten a letter, a phone call, a knock at the door from the ambassador, the Chinese ambassador, or one of his lieutenants or somebody, some thug working on their behalf trying to get the show canceled, trying to put pressure on the local mayor or the governor to get the show canceled. I mean, in the Dominican Republic, they went so far as the Chinese ambassador chased the president of the country down at the airport and started threatening him with political things and economic things, and you can't have this show. That's how adamant they are to not let the world see this message. Because if you think going back to your Red Note example in this this this young woman we watched on TikTok, it's kind of the antidote to that. Right?
• 51:22
  It's sort of like this is what one how wonderful China is without communism, and this is what the tyranny of the CCP is about. And they do not want the world to see that message.
• 51:33
  Seth Holehouse: Because I think that it fundamentally, when you build up a regime of lies, and this is, you know, through my own research into into communism, and not just communism, it's just tyrannical regimes in general. Their most powerful tool is the lie. Right? And I think it's actually you know, I look at communism as being Satan's own political branch. That's how I refer to it.
• 51:53
  They say Satan is is the great deceit deceiver. He's the master of lies. It's like if he was a politician, he'd be a communist. And what you see those because he maintains his power through lies, through deception, through darkness. And when you shine a light on anything like that, you bring the truth to it.
• 52:08
  So look at truth as being the light. You you shine a light into the darkness, and it always wins. Right? Like, you can't you can't shine darkness onto light and win. You you know what I mean?
• 52:18
  Like, darkness can't conquer light. Light always conquers darkness. It's just it's a fundamental principle of how this world was created by God. And so I think that if you look at communism as being what I again, you know, Satan's political branch, it's built on lies. And so what destroys that structure is truth.
• 52:37
  And so if you think about why is Shen Yun such a threat to the Chinese Communist Party? Why are the Epoch Times or New Tong Dynasty Television in TD, why are they threats to the CCP? Because they're exposing the truth of the CCP. Why is Red Note probably a really good tool of the CCP? Because it spreads the lies about the CCP.
• 53:01
  Now not to say that there's not, you know, potentially some, you know, people living in China that are have a good life, and maybe they're doing well, and okay. I'm sure that exists, but I think we both know what life is like for the people that aren't on the good side of the CCP. And I think that's what what the threat is is that Shen Yun or, you know, these other media companies that they just tell the truth about what communism is like in China.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And, you know, when I talked to Shen Yun, dancers and and and full disclosure, actually, my two sons, who originally were just focused on baseball, that's all they did. And they were pretty good at it. But they got in with some friends who did classical Chinese dance. And they've actually been with Shen Yun, with first with the Academy in the college and was Shen dancing with Shen Yun after that, for seven, eight years, and they love it.
• 53:49
  It's interesting to sort of talk with the dancers and some of the motivations like it made me think about what you talked about is there is a real belief among I feel, among the company and those, you know, participating in it similar to what you're talking about, that the CCP is not just tyranny. It's actually some sort of real evil. And and their show is trying to cast a light on that, not just you know? Yeah. You have the CCP and the and the stuff on the surface, but it really the CCP constitutes a real evil in the world.
• 54:23
  And if we can you know, I think the idea is if if if they can get on stage and show what that really is and that there is a benevolent creator, and we are all connected to him. And there is a divine connection to all of us, there's a there's a goodness to humanity. I mean, there's such a lot of hopeful, inspiring messages in the show. They really feel passionate about this hope, this inspiration, this connection to the divine. We want that on stage too.
• 54:51
  And it's it's it's a defense against kind of this darkness that the CCP represents in the world. So I think there's well, guess what I'm trying to say is what you what you what you said earlier really resonated with me, and I hear this a lot among the dancers, is there's a real spiritual belief and dimension, that there is an evil in the world, and there is an importance to put light into that same world.
• 55:11
  Seth Holehouse: And so what is your assessment of the current strength of the CCP of the party? Because I know that you know, one thing that's also been an absolute thorn in their side has been the the or the quit the CCP movement, where there's the the book, the nine commentaries, which was a I'd probably say probably the the greatest thorn in the side of the CCP. It was fascinating talking to people about the the creation of this book. I think if I remember correctly, it was written by the editorial board of the Epoch Times, the Chinese editorial board, and it was this book called the nine commentaries. And it was, like, there's these massive underground printing networks built up in China to print this book and pass it out.
• 55:47
  And if you got caught with this book, you're going straight to a labor camp because it was a book that was undermining the CCP. But, actually, let me see if I can pull up the, the website, which I think was just, quit, the ccp.com, if I remember correctly. I'll I'll I'll I'll find the do you recall the exact website for that so I can show folks?
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's quitccp.org.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Actually, I don't remember entirely. I think it was something like that.
• 56:10
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. Here it is. Yeah. So this right here that they've they've had over so 441,000,000 Chinese people have quit the party and its affiliated organizations. This is this is massive.
• 56:26
  This is one third of the of the you know, roughly one third of the population of China that has now openly said that they are that they do not want communism in China and that they do not wanna be affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party. So this is that's to me, like, that's really significant because if you look at again, looking back throughout history, the tyrannical regimes, they they primarily gain their power through lies and deceit in propaganda. But what happens is that it's like when, I forget which which communist country it was before. I think it was Radio Free Europe was broadcasting, I think, the Red Horizons book into or there's a certain book they were broadcasting in to the people. And once the people living on that regime realized the truth, the regime fell.
• 57:07
  So that the people seeing through the lies of the regime is one of the greatest threats. So looking at this, at almost half a billion people have quit the CCP and its its organizations, where how do you think that the CCP is maybe on its last leg? Is it desperate? Is it very powerful? Like, it makes, you know, an art of war when you're weak, look strong, etcetera.
• 57:31
  How would you kinda gauge where the CCP is currently sitting right now?
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I, well, I'm glad you brought the site up because I think that's one of the most important metrics of measuring domestically where the CCP is right now. Because as you mentioned, you know, after, I think, 1678 for the last sixteen or seventeen years, found loan practitioners and supporters by the millions, by the way. I mean, it's huge, have been going out and doing exactly what you're talking about. Not just handing out this book, but also just printing out, doing what we call local shaming. So like they might be in a village and down the road, one of their neighbors happens to be a guard at the prison camp or what have you and just torture someone to death.
• 58:14
  That news gets out, they print out a leaflet and guess what they do? They hand it out all over town. It has a real impact. They've been doing things like this, handing out the quit CCP book, handing out these leaflets for many, many years. And we hear constantly of stories, little pockets around China, where the police chief, the CCP head of the local community just says, you know what?
• 58:36
  I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not going after Falun Gong. I'm not gonna put him in prison anymore. And so, I mean, the the the persecution overall is still very horrific broadly, but there's a lot of these little pockets. And so I think domestically, there are a lot of indicators that the CCP is on its last legs that has lost all support from the people.
• 58:58
  So that's one part of the equation. I think if you look out outward, it really is a mixed bag, I would say. The CCP has spent so much time and so much money. Like, if you look at the the unrestricted warfare road map, right, that was created, what was it, like, back in 1999 or February by the two Chinese colonels, They've really executed on a lot of that, and that is the ability to do elite capture, capturing leaders of industry and government around the world with some tie or something to the Chinese government, influencing everything from our media to our government to corporate institutions to even NGOs, nonprofit institutions. So I think as ironic or strange as it might sound, the the threat domestically or in The United States and in the West has gotten stronger and stronger.
• 59:51
  And I think that's the thing we need to really be careful of. They may be still weak at their core in China and things are starting to fall, but they are able to pull levers of power here that to this day still surprise me. And I've been studying this for close to thirty years. And I think that's the real alarm bell, and that's where we really need to be vigilant is about how they've now weaponized our cell us against ourselves, if if if to put it that way, and and really sort of pick that out. And look, I understand it's a difficult equation.
• 1:00:25
  We are a a land of the free. We have liberty. People can speak their mind. And but how do you how do you navigate that when the individual speaking their mind in front of you may be acting at the behest of the largest tyrannical regime in history? Let's going back to that TikTok lady.
• 1:00:44
  What are we looking at? Are we looking at a woman of her own free will is angry and expressing her views? Good for her. I don't agree with her views, but good for her. Or are we looking essentially at an agent?
• 1:00:57
  It could be either one, and I think that threat, we have constantly underestimated that threat.
• 1:01:05
  Seth Holehouse: Oh, I I couldn't agree more. It's in this is why I wanted to have you on the show today because I you know, in the past couple of days, I saw these trends. I was seeing these these posts, and, you know, because I'm following Twitter, which, you know, to me, it represents the pulse of the thinking of the our civilization. I mean, it's it's probably one of the best representations of where the collective thought is. And so I'm looking at it.
• 1:01:27
  I'm thinking, wait. I'm seeing this this massive trend of this this Red Note app, and everyone's talking very positively about it. And it's like, this is this is really concerning because, again, I've I've been, you know, I've I've been fighting up against Chinese propaganda since early two thousands. I mean, for me, what happened is I think it was in 02/2006, I was in college, and I met this guy that was a Falun Gong practitioner. This is when I was living in Ohio that was on a full ride scholarship for mechanical engineering at OSU.
• 1:01:55
  And he's this nice young Chinese guy. I think it's William Huang, I think his name is. And and I got talking to him, and and he I was like, well, like, what's what's your background? You know? And I kinda met through a friend, and and he spent, like, eight years in a labor camp.
• 1:02:08
  And one the things that he had to do was he had to crack open pistachio nuts. And I think the Epoch Times did an article, you know, within a couple of years of that time I met him and explained this and how he had to work, like, sixteen hours a day cracking pistachio nuts, which the Chinese call happy nuts because when you crack them open, they have a little smile on them. And so American companies were shipping pistachios. You buy these nuts grown in California where they're shipping them to China, and they have these inmates that are forced with, you know, bleeding, you know, bleeding fingers and everything. They're forced to crack open these nuts for sixteen hours a day or else they're tortured.
• 1:02:44
  And I remember he told me that they had a a piss bucket in the corner, and if the nuts were too stubborn to crack open, they toss them in the bucket to soften them a little bit, and then they'd been they'd be able to crack them. They'd go back in the batch. Remember I I I heard this, and I was just young, kinda bright eyed, and, you know, kinda bushy tailed, you know, design you know, I was going to design school, and the world was my oyster. And I I hear this. This is like like, I grew up in a really peaceful, you know, conservative Christian home and community small town America.
• 1:03:13
  I couldn't believe this. And that's what led to me moving to New York and and getting involved in in human human rights work and media work because, like, my world shattered. It was like I I because I was studying being an industrial designer. I was like, I I kinda I don't wanna just design the next toaster that's gonna be manufactured in some factory in China. I was thinking, like, I had to do something about this.
• 1:03:33
  And so that was you know, at that time, I had a conversation with God. Was like, okay, God. Like, this is now my mission is to try my best to expose communism and help people see past its lies, which has led me to to where I am now. But it's it's just crazy seeing how this is still going on and that these these people are still suffering over there. But it's also crazy to think that you've got these, you know, these other these campaigns going where they've somehow taken what I think to be very intelligent media personalities and alternative and independent media people, and they've confused them.
• 1:04:08
  And that you have people saying like, woman said in her video. It's like, gosh. Like, I've been convinced that China was evil. This is propaganda for my own government. And, like, not to say our government doesn't use propaganda against us.
• 1:04:18
  Like, Obama actually opened that up when he, you know, changed some laws and allowed that. But the thing is is that, like, this is pretty serious because if Americans don't if collectively, this is why I wanna do this video with you is because if Americans fall for this and also, you have this huge movement of the people that are supposed to be protecting God, country, and freedom that are now actually defending a communist nation. That that's not a good place for us to be in.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. And that's you know, and that for sure I've seen that happen time and time again. And then, you know, there's a spectrum of reasons. On one end of the spectrum, it's it's some sort of capture. They had a business deal in China.
• 1:04:55
  They had some personal interest and they were willing to kinda let the other stuff go. And, tragically, that's happened to a lot of people. On the other hand, you've got again, if it's option two with this young lady, completely just deceived. She's got certain principles. She's got things she's seen here she doesn't like, and those emotions are manipulated by an app that's clearly showing her a false picture of what's in China, and she's being weaponized.
• 1:05:20
  And I think you see that whole spectrum and everywhere in between. In terms of the influence operations of the CCP here in The United States and, again, going back to what general Spaulding told our congress, do not mistake priorities. That is their number one priority. That is their number one weapon. Take The United States down without firing a shot.
• 1:05:40
  They said it very clearly more than twenty years ago, and they've been doing it ever since. And I think, you know, the case of this woman and again, on the option two side, and many, many, many people like her is an example of that.
• 1:05:54
  Seth Holehouse: Well, Levi, thank you for doing what you're doing, because more people need to understand. So I hope the folks if anyone watched this has made it to the end of the interview, obviously, it's been good for you. Please help us by sharing this, because this is an important message to get out there, because we have to we have to catch these campaigns as they're happening. Otherwise, you you look around and it's like, wait. Why are why are they wearing, you know, China shirts at a Trump rally all a sudden?
• 1:06:17
  Like, know, that's why that's why ends up happening. So we have to be proactive and vigilant. And so I, again, I thank you for giving us your time today and and your expertise. I know that you dedicate a lot of your your your life to what you're doing, and and it gets it's it's a very noble cause. So thank you, Levi, for what you're doing.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Right back at you. I appreciate you and others that are sort of having these longer form podcast discussions. We can get into the issues, you know, instead of these two or three minute sort of news bites, people like you who are really grappling with the heart and soul of this country, what's coming after it, what makes us Americans. I think that's wonderful. And I'm just again, thank you for having me on the show.
• 1:06:57
  Keep at it.
• 1:06:58
  Seth Holehouse: My pleasure. Thank you, Levi. Take care, and god bless. Okay. Every New Year, we all spend a few days seriously thinking about what we can do to improve our lives.
• 1:07:07
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