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Pride Goeth Before the Fall: Why Forgiveness is the Better Path · My Brother's Journey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, welcome again to my brother's podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm part of this uh dynamic duel.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm Greg Joseph Chuk, and with me is Baron, Baron, great to see you again.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as usual, we start with a prayer.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll lead off if you don't mind.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and dear Lord, we first of all thank you for this day.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We thank you for the wonders of this day, and we thank you for the encounters that you're going to bring to each and every one of us today.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we ask that you would bless us, bless the time that we spend with others, and help us to share our love of you, Lord, with those that we come in contact with.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: In your name, Jesus, we pray.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, so as you probably know, uh I just came back from uh a week up in the UP, Upper Peninsula, Michigan.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, if the couple handful of people that actually listen to our podcast, remember you had been in the UP just not too long ago yourself.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I went up there uh on my my wife's side of uh of the family, uh they have a annual family reunion that they've probably been doing, oh, easily for 40 years, maybe 50 years or more.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um my wife's dad, I don't even know.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I it's sad, I don't remember how many siblings they have in their family, but I think it's eight.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Seven or eight.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's eight.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And all of them are still alive, even though they're in their 80s and uh and I think some are approaching 90.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but uh and so you know I don't attend them every year.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I probably my wife usually does, but I usually attend them maybe every three or four years.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I always think it's interesting when I go up there because of course there's a it's a big gossip fest.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it just seems like everyone's gossiping about something up there.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but it you know, I I would say I'm more of an observer, or at least lately.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been the last probably 10 years, I'm more of an observer than maybe a participating in a lot of those discussions.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I just think it's it's it's interesting how uh you know families still get all worked up about something somebody said and and and don't forgive people, and uh, you know, this aunt won't talk to that person, or this person won't talk to another person.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know what it just seems to me that this is a good topic to just in general talk about because I think that there are probably people that are that will listen to this podcast that can relate to this topic because I think I think it's fairly common.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, sure.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fairly common.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think people get their nose out of joint by a comment someone's I mean, listen actually, uh okay.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I oh boy, all right.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a story coming.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a story coming.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I it's one of those that I I almost hesitate to share, but I you know me, I'm gonna be honest and transparent.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, oh boy, talk about being convicted.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh I don't know if you were here at that mass where I don't think you you may have been, but so we had a mass here uh probably two, three weeks ago, where Father Bernard on Sunday was preaching, and and he had each one of us hold up signs.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you can probably look it up on YouTube and see it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one one of the signs was tolerance, and I forget some of the other ones, but essentially it was uh almost exactly about this topic.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was being more forgiving, more understanding, more tolerant, um reaching out to someone that you may have held a long-term grudge with and amending that, and and so that Sunday, right?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I'm filled with that spirit.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And by I can't even remember, I think it was Thursday of that week, right?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had a niece, and my niece uh had just gotten engaged that day.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And she posted um she posted something on um on uh Instagram.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was a it was a post with uh that the mayor mandami.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and I took I took exception to to the post, okay, because I am not a supporter of Mandami and his ideology.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I posted something on there, um and she misinterpreted what I posted because there the the picture was her and her fiance watching TV with Mandami in the front of it, and she took offense to it thinking that I was somehow attacking her fiance, who is Muslim and is a uh a Palestinian from Palestine, or his family's from Palestine, Palestinian, which by the way, I did not know he was from Palestine, but that doesn't matter.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, did that thing blow up like you cannot believe in our family.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So my sister-in-law or ex-sister-in-law sent me a pretty nasty, and my brother sent me a pretty nasty, and how could you do this on the day that's so important?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: You've ruined it for them.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And oh my gosh.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and and there was a little more to it because there was some text going between her and me about her misinterpreting it and me misinterpreting what she was saying, and so um, and I the next day, I I just I mean, even that day, that evening, I just felt like I have failed so miserably at putting into practice forgiveness, and and so I immediately, of course, sent a message saying, please forgive me to everyone, and I I was wrong, and and I was wrong.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm admitting I was wrong.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I should not have done that, but it just goes to show you, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're people, we have emotions.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh unfortunately, anger is one of the stronger emotions, especially on my family.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's been passed down, I believe, from generation.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: My my dad had a very trigger hair kind of anger.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: His father did.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I see it in some of my sons, unfortunately.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So uh not not a good thing.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I think people that are listening to this, hopefully, might recognize that in maybe, if not in their own family, maybe in some of their neighbors or whatever.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it it really is the thorn in your side when you have that kind of.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, that's why I frankly I admire you so much, because I I love I love I don't know, I just love your essence of of how you approach things in life.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it it doesn't appear to me to be very confrontational.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but me, I'm a I'm a confrontational kind of guy, unfortunately.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I appear very document in front of you because I don't want to get your Yeah, yeah, no, that's well deserved.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be a whole different journey wouldn't be the right one, trust me.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, I you know, I think we probably found all of us have found ourselves in those situations where they be either either immediate family or people we, you know, a friend group or whatever else that uh you know, and that's the thing I've I've always just uh I stay away, stay out of social media and all that kind of stuff, but also try not to engage in anything that's confrontational via text, you know, or an email, because it just doesn't it's there's so you know it's so easy to be something just misinterpreted by by a way something's phrased or read something wrong into it, whatever else.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and also I think just an interaction with with anyone.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know the old adage my mom used to say, you know, hey, if you know anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And bless all the peacemakers.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just uh you know, i I can disagree with somebody, but but you can do it in a way that's loving, you can do it in a way that's just uh I see your point.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think a little bit differently.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Here's why I think what I do, but hey, that's you know, and and make it more of a uh a less emotional and more intellectual discussion is is usually better if you really want to go down that path.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I yeah, I think we've all found ourselves in that situation, and it is tough sometimes to to bite our tongue and not react.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's uh it's uh it's a learned skill and it doesn't come easy.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, I totally agree.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um my my wife's grandmother had a uh a saying, a kind of a favorite saying, and my wife also brings it up at appropriate times and is uh pride goeth before the fall.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you know, swallowing one's pride.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's a real challenge for me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm a I'm a proud guy.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I uh and uh and it is like I said, it's a thorn in my side.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I pray I pray for humility.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I pray for it because I'm far from being humble.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um pride, I think, has probably destroyed more relationships than just about any other thing I can think of.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and not only does it has it destroyed it, but it also, I think even more importantly, it prevents the healing that could happen in a relationship.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is uh is actually you know far more consequential because that you know when those wedges are driven in relationships, they persist and they're like a cancer.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they just it nothing good comes from it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if people would be willing to lay down their pride a little bit, you'd be amazed at how easy reconciliation can become.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, um, so as I get back to kind of the observations I made at the uh uh family reunion, um again, I would say all of the different aunts and uncles there are proud people, um, and they are certainly opinionated.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um and because of that, um yeah, there there are riffs out there that I've seen in the past and in the present, and and I think you know the flip side of that is there's also a lot of love, don't get me wrong.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of love, and they're generous and warm, and I enjoy it, and they're very welcoming.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you can just kind of see on the you know, in the little one-on-one sessions with different aunts, uncles, cousins that there's still some riffs out there.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um and I you know, I was thinking about how important it is, especially if you're a parent, to tell your children and grandchildren on a as many times as you possibly can, how much you love them, how much God loves them, and how much um they should love one another and forgive one another for harsh words or whatever, you know, um because it's a human emotion, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna happen.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It it if it doesn't happen almost daily, weekly, monthly, it's gonna happen where something's gonna set somebody off.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, text taken the wrong way, email taken the wrong way, comment taken the wrong way, or maybe it's even a comment taken the right way, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a hurtful comment, and you know, because of our faith and our belief, we need to turn the other cheek, which has always been one of the hardest things of anything that Christ said in in the Gospels, at least for me, the saying about turning the other cheek and loving your enemy um has probably been one of the most challenging teachings for me personally, and it still is.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm 65 now, yesterday was my birthday, and I turned 65, and I'm still at this age, you would think by now, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be thinking like, hey, you're mellowing out, you're taking life a little bit slower, you're getting more into your faith, right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to just simply accept that, turn the other cheek, and you know, and I still it's I still find Baron that that is one of the most challenging areas of my life and of uh of what's in the gospel readings today, um to do that to to and I it and and to me the core reason that I can only come to is pride.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like and to your point, as as Father said today in his message, he couldn't find his grandfather's gravesite, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes when you really think about it, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It it's irrelevant.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean, the time we're here on earth and the things that we do on earth are so irrelevant to our eternal life, except for one thing, they're relevant to whether it's gonna be something that God says, well done, good and faithful service servant, or whether he says, I'm judging you on this, and it was not well done.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right, and I think you know, I think that's the thing I I I would hope to learn from from these kinds of failures of my own.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'd also encourage our brothers and sisters listening here that um yeah, turn the other cheek and swallowing the pride, it that's that's difficult.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But boy, it's the the blessings that you will receive because God Christ knows how difficult it is, He's there with us, He's right next to us, He knows how hard it is, and uh you know to do that your reward might not be immediate, but the reward will be there for doing that.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's always I don't know, it's always a little bit easier for us to point out somebody else's faults than to look at our own.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it but that's I I remind myself of that all the time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that hey, I've got plenty of faults myself, and whoever's over here on the other side, there's people out there who who overlook those faults and just try to try to approach me with a kindness and and respect that uh that I should mirror.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so uh you know it's it's um loving people they are, you know.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Look look to the um look to the good side of things.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, my brother, uh we did it again.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: We uh did another interesting podcast.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I this was one that I didn't expect to take the turn that it did because it's good.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's good, it's it's good for the soul.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, listen, I hope we didn't put you to sleep right now, but uh thank you for tuning in and being part of my brother's journey.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, seek Jesus and all you do, and be fishers of men.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: God bless you, and please join us again, viva Jesus.