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Patriots Unfiltered 8/19: Vikings Leftovers, Recent Practice Observations, Injury Updates and Giants Preview · Patriots Unfiltered

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  Speaker 1: Some of the content of Patriots Unfiltered may not be
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  Speaker 1: suitable for all audiences.
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  Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. The World's a vigeonal podcast. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: to Patriots Unfiltered. Oh yeah, yeah, we'll have Mike ravel
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: live when he starts up at I think about twelve
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  Speaker 2: forty five or so. He's been pretty prompt on his
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  Speaker 2: birthday today, on his birthday.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Fiftieth birthday.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't realize he was a Leo until last night.
• 0:31
  Speaker 5: But that's great news for us.
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  Speaker 2: Well, why if things start to click all of a sudden, Yeah,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: you've got what Paul considers weapons.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, keep your very friendly here.
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  Speaker 6: It's just everywhere you walk in. Welcome back, great to
• 0:45
  Speaker 6: see you.
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  Speaker 7: Like, are you sure.
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  Speaker 2: Where is Evans? He's down Yonder somewhere else, so he
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  Speaker 2: can do clinics and everybody else. But he can't do this.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: There is no legitimacy to astrology. It's a gateway drug
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: to conspiracy. For I don't put you that up. I
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  Speaker 2: see she's getting mad. I don't know. There's an interesting
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  Speaker 2: rabbit hole anyway, Johnson.
• 1:06
  Speaker 6: That intersex Christianity and the tyrology and the Venn diagram
• 1:11
  Speaker 6: where those two things meet.
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  Speaker 4: It's just a fascinating rabbit hole.
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  Speaker 3: There you go, so right on the ViRGE of Leo.
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  Speaker 2: I'm on the verge of tears.
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  Speaker 1: This is Patriot's Unfiltered, presented by Toyota's official website.
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  Speaker 4: For deals, buy a Toyota dot com.
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  Speaker 2: All right, welcome the Patriots Unfiltered. It is Tuesday here
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  Speaker 2: at Jillette Stadium. It's me and Paul Evan and Duce
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: will be here shortly. They're finishing up their team assignments.
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  Speaker 2: But we had a lot to talk about. We'll talk
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  Speaker 2: about the preseason game that we saw in the Star
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  Speaker 2: of that game.
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  Speaker 8: Obviously, I'm going to need more information.
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  Speaker 2: Oh you know who it is.
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  Speaker 8: I don't.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't say one.
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  Speaker 8: Good for your friend, Okay, good for you.
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  Speaker 2: All right, we'll talk about him, but we'll also talk
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  Speaker 2: about getting ready for the end of the season. I
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  Speaker 2: know they have another preseason game with the Giants coming
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  Speaker 2: up on Thursday.
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  Speaker 8: But it's coming fast now.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, all indications are that it's not going to be
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  Speaker 2: a lot of name people playing in this one. We'll see,
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  Speaker 2: but I don't think so. I mean, they signed a
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  Speaker 2: running back, I think just because they probably won't be
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  Speaker 2: playing any of the starting running back well.
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  Speaker 8: And they've banged up a little bit too, So yeah,
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  Speaker 8: I mean I thought, based on the way Vrabel spoke
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  Speaker 8: on Monday, I think you're right. I think they planned
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  Speaker 8: on getting the you know, the front line guys a
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  Speaker 8: fair amount of work and these these practices and probably
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  Speaker 8: going to play, you know, some of the younger guys
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  Speaker 8: the bulk of the game on Thursday.
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  Speaker 2: And I also want to talk about a report that's
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  Speaker 2: out that the Patriots are one of the teams that
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  Speaker 2: reached out to the Bengals.
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  Speaker 8: About when you raise your eyebrows like that, I get
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  Speaker 8: on my seat. I didn't hear that report, but I
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  Speaker 8: want to hear your version of their I.
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  Speaker 2: Heard there were three teams that reached out to the
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  Speaker 2: Bengals on Hendrixon And now, you know, if I was
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  Speaker 2: the Patriots, I'd be reaching out on everybody to see
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  Speaker 2: you know. So I don't think that's really breaking news
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  Speaker 2: at all. But I think it's just a topic for conversation.
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  Speaker 8: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I hear that the Bengals, and again this
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  Speaker 2: is all things I hear, are looking for a first
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  Speaker 2: round pick. I don't know if you'd be willing to
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  Speaker 2: do that. I'm not sure I would. That's certainly not
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  Speaker 2: in the near future. But I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. You know,
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  Speaker 2: let's let's go, let's let's talk to these teams. What
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  Speaker 2: would it take to bring in a guy who was
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  Speaker 2: the league sack leader last year, even though he's thirty
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  Speaker 2: years old. Let's do that. I mean, he's that's that
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  Speaker 2: was last year that he led the league in sacks.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, No, he's a good player. He's probably is worth
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  Speaker 8: a first round pick. Yeah, he's only thirty. It's not
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  Speaker 8: like he's thirty four. Well, he probably still has You know,
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  Speaker 8: you're going to sign this contract. He's got another contract
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  Speaker 8: left for them that you should expecting to continue to
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  Speaker 8: be reasonably close to this production. I kind of agree
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  Speaker 8: with your hesitation and your voice. I don't know if
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  Speaker 8: I'm reading too much into that, but I'm not sure
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  Speaker 8: the Patriots are at the place right now where signing
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  Speaker 8: one player to lose a draft pick that high makes
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  Speaker 8: enough sat. I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't be I
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  Speaker 8: wouldn't be ranting and raven by adding that kind of time.
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  Speaker 2: I realized there's money involved in this too, so you
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  Speaker 2: have to factor that in but big.
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  Speaker 8: Big contract. But they have that, and they have the
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  Speaker 8: million in cash space.
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  Speaker 2: So let's forget about the money for a second. Would
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  Speaker 2: the Patriots be able next year to draft somebody who's
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  Speaker 2: better than him in the first round?
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  Speaker 8: So more than likely.
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  Speaker 2: No, But.
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  Speaker 8: That's a little bit of a flawed way of doing it, okay,
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  Speaker 8: And you and I both do that a lot. We
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  Speaker 8: do that same theory that you just did. I'm not
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  Speaker 8: making fun of you for doing it. We both do that.
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  Speaker 8: I know you know who you're going to get that's
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  Speaker 8: better than him. We both have that ment. The question
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  Speaker 8: would be, would you reasonably expect to get a solid
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  Speaker 8: contributor for the next five to seven years with that
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  Speaker 8: first round pick? Right as opposed to will that guy
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  Speaker 8: be as good as Trey Hendrickson right now at age thirty?
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  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Right?
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  Speaker 8: So, so like if you let's say, let's say let's
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  Speaker 8: say Will Campbell is your left tackle for the next
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  Speaker 8: seven years. Yes, and he's a good left tackle. He
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  Speaker 8: doesn't have to be an all Pro, but he's a
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  Speaker 8: good left tackle. Is that more valuable than signing Trey
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  Speaker 8: Hendrickson right now? Like that caliber of player possession that's
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  Speaker 8: the quest. Well, I'm just saying that's the question, right, right,
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  Speaker 8: But if you if you bust on the first round
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  Speaker 8: pick and you don't hit it, sure, I'd rather have
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  Speaker 8: Trey Henderson.
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  Speaker 2: We started out by talking about his age, and like
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  Speaker 2: you said, if he was thirty three or thirty four,
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  Speaker 2: I think I think it would be a hard no
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  Speaker 2: first round pick. But conceivably you're still going to be
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  Speaker 2: able to get three years out of this guy.
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  Speaker 8: Maybe if you sure, yeah, before you know, I'd be
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  Speaker 8: I'd be strongly interested. I'm glad that to find out,
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  Speaker 8: hopefully that reports accurate, but I'm glad to find out
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  Speaker 8: they're actively pursuing these kinds of possibilities. I hope that
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  Speaker 8: they're making calls to Dallas too about Micah.
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  Speaker 2: Parsons, Michael and the Commanders's he's.
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  Speaker 8: Younger, you know, Parsons, and that would obviously cost you
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  Speaker 8: a lot more. But yeah, I want the Patriots that
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  Speaker 8: Elliott Wolf said that yesterday, that they they're actively involved
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  Speaker 8: in all these all these conversations. I want them to be.
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  Speaker 8: I want them to be players in all of these situations.
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  Speaker 2: That's their job. Their job is to turn over every
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  Speaker 2: rock and see what's available. I don't care if it's Canada, Europe,
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  Speaker 2: free agents, disgruntled players, whatever. They should be looking at
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  Speaker 2: everything and making the call, you know, just asking the question,
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  Speaker 2: getting the information. That's that's what every team does that
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure you know.
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  Speaker 8: So now the question becomes, you know, with with Hendrickson right,
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  Speaker 8: can you lower the draft capital by adding some of
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  Speaker 8: the veterans that seem to be on the back burner
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  Speaker 8: right now and your plans? My answer would be no.
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  Speaker 8: If I'm Cincinnati, you don't think so. Now, I don't
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  Speaker 8: think that.
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  Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't evaluated their depth chart, but you know,
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  Speaker 2: there might be some weaknesses that maybe an Anthrody Jennings
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  Speaker 2: maybe he fits there better than here. Maybe a Kyle
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  Speaker 2: dug Er fits there better than here. I don't know.
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  Speaker 8: So if I'm Kansas, if Kansas City, if I'm Cincinnati,
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  Speaker 8: I'm just going to give Trey Hendrickson the money rather
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  Speaker 8: than give money to Kyle Dugger because I don't necessarily
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  Speaker 8: think he fixed you know, he fixes the problem that
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  Speaker 8: I have. I'm trying to get my finances situated in
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  Speaker 8: strengthening my team. But those are the kinds of things
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  Speaker 8: that you know, can I Can I send him a
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  Speaker 8: second round pick instead of a first round pick if
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  Speaker 8: I add in a veteran player or two. I don't
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  Speaker 8: know the answer is, I don't know, but that's what
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  Speaker 8: I'd be looking into. We started throwing around different player names.
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  Speaker 8: You know, so obviously Patriots fans want to Trey Dugger
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  Speaker 8: and Jenning because it certainly seems that this current coaching
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  Speaker 8: staff is nobally interested in those two players. But everybody
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  Speaker 8: else knows that too. You're a four and thirteen team
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  Speaker 8: and that these guys aren't good enough to play for you.
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  Speaker 8: I'm going to take them for my guy who led
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  Speaker 8: the league in sacks last year. Yeah, probably not. But
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  Speaker 8: now you start thinking, well, what are some other veteran
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  Speaker 8: players that you might be able to to give up?
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  Speaker 8: You know, like with Keon White, could that fetch something?
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  Speaker 2: I would think? So, are you're willing to give him up?
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  Speaker 8: Marcus Jones? You know, you know in the in the
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  Speaker 8: secondary for Cincinnati was a huge problem last year.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, you know.
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  Speaker 8: So, me, Evan and Mike were talking at practice. We're
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  Speaker 8: throwing a bunch of names out, and I think Evan
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  Speaker 8: brought up Marcus Jones, and I was like, I'd have
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  Speaker 8: to think about that one a little bit. You know,
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  Speaker 8: if for both sides, I'm not sure he'd be valuable enough.
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  Speaker 8: But can he drop the draft pick down a round
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  Speaker 8: or two?
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  Speaker 7: You know?
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  Speaker 8: So interesting that we had good in his mic. You know,
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  Speaker 8: we had some some good, good media banter while watching it.
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  Speaker 8: We were talking about the you know, the potential veteran
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  Speaker 8: guys that you'd throw in a trade to try to
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  Speaker 8: get maybe Trey Hendrickson. Yeah, you know, we threw out
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  Speaker 8: like Keon White or Marcus Jones. You know, like obviously
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  Speaker 8: everybody wants to give up Anthony Jennings and Kyle Duger
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  Speaker 8: because it seems like Rabel has no role for those guys.
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  Speaker 8: Well they know that too, you know, I.
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  Speaker 4: Think On White's an interesting name. It's just coming up
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  Speaker 4: that practice.
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  Speaker 9: There was one field at the end of practice that
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  Speaker 9: looks like the guys that are going to play tomorrow.
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  Speaker 9: And over there guy who started the training camp off
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  Speaker 9: as a fixture there on one of the defensive end positions,
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  Speaker 9: and now it looks like he's still trying to figure
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  Speaker 9: out a role.
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  Speaker 4: Did you talk about Mike Smith saying.
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  Speaker 8: I hadn't gotten to that yet. We got a chance
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  Speaker 8: to talk to the defensive coaching staff today. We did
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  Speaker 8: offense last week. Mike Smith is working with the edge guys,
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  Speaker 8: the outside guys, and there was a question asked of
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  Speaker 8: him about Keon White, you know, sort of showing some
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  Speaker 8: flash is what's been the key to try to get
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  Speaker 8: him unlocked so he has more consistency, And Mike Smith said,
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  Speaker 8: you know, we need to find a home for you know,
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  Speaker 8: like one spot.
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  Speaker 10: Yeah.
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  Speaker 8: Now, unfortunately none of us followed up by saying, well
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  Speaker 8: what spot do you think that is? What's the best
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  Speaker 8: spot for him?
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  Speaker 2: Or I would like why, like is he better being
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  Speaker 2: moved around? Like that's kind of like what they've been
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  Speaker 2: doing right.
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  Speaker 8: Right, And he talked about how that can be difficult
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  Speaker 8: to do because you're dealing with all kinds of different
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  Speaker 8: zone reads, and you know, you play that this way
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  Speaker 8: if you're in here, you play that this way if
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  Speaker 8: you're out here, you know, in different He used different
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  Speaker 8: examples like that. Sure, but I just wish that we
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  Speaker 8: had followed up and said, you know what to your
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  Speaker 8: your experience with Keon, what do you think is the
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  Speaker 8: best fit for him? He talked a lot about his
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  Speaker 8: physicality and violence. Yeah, so I took from that and
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  Speaker 8: maybe he thinks he's better served on the inside, but
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  Speaker 8: I don't know.
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  Speaker 9: I think that's where has been the best, is rushing
• 11:01
  Speaker 9: on guards and going right through guys. And you haven't
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  Speaker 9: seen the development with the array of pass rush moves.
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  Speaker 9: Chase On being a good example, a guy who came
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  Speaker 9: in and you see all these different moves that he
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  Speaker 9: throws at will Campbell off the edge. You don't really
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  Speaker 9: see that from Keyon White. So also just like getting
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  Speaker 9: to know this scheme a little bit.
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  Speaker 4: Which I tried to talk.
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  Speaker 9: To some of the defensive coaches about today and none
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  Speaker 9: of them will say anything about it, is that it
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  Speaker 9: seems like those no I know, but they're like, but
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  Speaker 9: they didn't break down the scale, you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, but it was it was like a hard stop,
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  Speaker 4: like a hard stop.
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  Speaker 9: Because I went to Zach Krer, who pron cor I
• 11:37
  Speaker 9: correct pronunciation of that.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: I think we called him current the.
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  Speaker 9: Past, but Zach Korr, and something I've been interested in
• 11:43
  Speaker 9: is this is such a diverse coaching staff from so
• 11:46
  Speaker 9: many different trees, and even Terrell Williams specifically has been
• 11:49
  Speaker 9: in so many different defensive systems, you know, going back
• 11:53
  Speaker 9: to Detroit last year, but you know, go back with
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  Speaker 9: Rabel and then connecting like what Rabel ran here as
• 11:58
  Speaker 9: a player, and then under Romeo con and a little
• 12:00
  Speaker 9: bit under Demps. There's just so many different threads of
• 12:03
  Speaker 9: schemes coming in.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: It's just what is this scheme?
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  Speaker 9: And I wasn't trying to get him to tell me
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  Speaker 9: what it is, And really the only thing Zach would
• 12:09
  Speaker 9: tell me was it's about versatility for us, which is
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  Speaker 9: kind of what we've heard all the time.
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  Speaker 8: But I would would have gotten it out of there.
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  Speaker 9: Oh okay, but I would say what I've noticed about
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  Speaker 9: the two edge positions Harold Landry, Calavon Chase on that
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  Speaker 9: spot within this scheme is that they're going to ask
• 12:23
  Speaker 9: those guys to do everything. They're gonna ask them, they're
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  Speaker 9: gonna drop them out sometimes, and so that kind of
• 12:27
  Speaker 9: ability to play up and back. And I've never thought
• 12:30
  Speaker 9: that Keon White has looked super comfortable doing that. He
• 12:33
  Speaker 9: looks like he's straightforward, go right through a guy doesn't
• 12:36
  Speaker 9: really have the savvy. So it's like it's the same
• 12:39
  Speaker 9: thing we're talking about with with Anphonye. Jennings to an
• 12:41
  Speaker 9: extent different version of that. But how does his skill
• 12:44
  Speaker 9: set fit into what they're trying to put together right now.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, So let's let's take a little detour
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: for a second. You just came from practice and tell
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: us you know about practice.
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I thought, you know, the offense in early semi
• 12:58
  Speaker 9: competitive peers they were an uppers lowers, which are still
• 13:00
  Speaker 9: trying to figure out exactly what that means when they
• 13:02
  Speaker 9: do that. Or we were kind of thudding, but we're
• 13:05
  Speaker 9: not really in.
• 13:06
  Speaker 8: Pads they have.
• 13:08
  Speaker 11: Oh was it?
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  Speaker 4: I did see the shoulder pads.
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: Now it's the same as last week, those early practices
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  Speaker 8: with no usually.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: They're in paths, they have the pants.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I got to get better recognizing that.
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  Speaker 9: To me, it looked a little more clunky in the
• 13:24
  Speaker 9: earlier team periods ups and downs, and then in the
• 13:27
  Speaker 9: last competitive period where it looked like they needed a
• 13:29
  Speaker 9: field goal, Drake looked better.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: It was a better series there for him. He completed
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: some nice passes.
• 13:35
  Speaker 9: Uh So, getting to a point now where you kind
• 13:38
  Speaker 9: of have to shut it down and we'll see in
• 13:40
  Speaker 9: week one. You know, you don't know what they're working on,
• 13:43
  Speaker 9: so that some of them are on the other fields
• 13:45
  Speaker 9: getting ready clearly to play on THIRSD.
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: Side of telling Freddy that it's like it's starting to
• 13:49
  Speaker 8: like get a little bit faster, you know, like it
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: feels like they just played and now they got another
• 13:53
  Speaker 8: game right now, And like fred said, you know, it
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: certainly looks like some of those frontline guys are not
• 13:59
  Speaker 8: going to play the game. So before you know it,
• 14:02
  Speaker 8: you're gonna have that cutdown day, which is what next
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  Speaker 8: next weaston today.
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  Speaker 2: Right and then maybe not though.
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  Speaker 8: They're going to have your first uh, your first iteration
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  Speaker 8: anyway of the fifty three man roster. I know that'll
• 14:15
  Speaker 8: change a lot, but yeah, you know it's it's it's
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  Speaker 8: coming quick.
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  Speaker 2: So let's go back to the game. We'll start there.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: That happened on Saturday, And I told Paul we're going
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: to be talking a lot about the player of the game.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: All feigned ignorance, and I.
• 14:31
  Speaker 8: Just state emphatically, I'm not feigning. This is the least
• 14:38
  Speaker 8: knowledge of the whole week that I've ever watched. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 8: didn't see, I didn't have the ability to. I didn't
• 14:44
  Speaker 8: I didn't see any I didn't see. Yeah, I don't
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  Speaker 8: really know a whole lot about the two practices other
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: than what I've read and as i've pointed out to Mike,
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: the one thing that I always regret when I miss
• 14:55
  Speaker 8: a practice is I don't trust anybody, anybody.
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  Speaker 2: I hear you.
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  Speaker 8: So I've read a lot about the practices. I've read
• 15:02
  Speaker 8: wildly different views of the practices. So I don't really
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: even know what went on there. And I didn't see
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: any of the games.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so.
• 15:08
  Speaker 8: I can't argue that you will get no arguments from
• 15:11
  Speaker 8: me about anything with the game. I don't see it.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: So let's start the way the game started. And the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Patriots had their front line offense in there for the
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: most part to start, and Drake, you know, played a
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: couple series, was a.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Two two series.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: He was he was high on a lot of his throws,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: missed guys high and you know, five alarms, everybody, everybody
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: is just you know, in panic mode on most of
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Paul's shows about Drake may And yes, he was high.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: He you know, he missed pop on, he was wide open,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: was too high in him, was too high to Hollands
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: on the sideline. Hollins made the catch, but I think
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a better throw would have you know, resulted in some
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: yards after catch. But at least he saw the guys,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: So that's step one. He didn't miss that, the guys
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: were there, he just was too high in his throws.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So there's that extended a couple of plays nicely. But
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: here's something I was thinking, and you guys can correct me.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna pose this as a question, how many starting
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: NFL quarterbacks are lighting it up in preseason games?
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: Well, Caleb Williams let it up. That's one to Joe Burrow.
• 16:20
  Speaker 8: I think Joe Burrow's played five series and had four touchdowns,
• 16:23
  Speaker 8: Is that right? Yeah, But this is a huge departure
• 16:26
  Speaker 8: for Cincinnati because they never play anybody in the preseason
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: and they've gotten to these slow starts, so they're trying
• 16:32
  Speaker 8: to do something.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Speaker 8: So I don't think most frontline guys play a lot.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Like I remember games where Tom Brady started off a
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: little bit too jacked up and was a little bit
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: high on his throes. I remember those, and then he
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: would settle down. In the preseason, you're working on something
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: specific things in the two series that you're gonna play.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: It's it's basically probably scripted, and then that's it. You
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: don't get a chance to go beyond that if you
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: start off a little rusty. So I'm not gonna get
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: all worked up over some high throws.
• 17:05
  Speaker 12: What.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I love to see him being on target right from
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: the get go, absolutely, So I'm not gonna I'm not
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: going to make excuses for Drake may but I'm not
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: going to panic either, Like I'm hearing people say, well,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you may not be the guy, like seriously based off
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: these preseason games. So it's it's way way way too
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: early for that.
• 17:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I've given a lot of praise to Drake. I
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: think he's looked very poised through the spring and into
• 17:31
  Speaker 9: the summer. And that's the best thing I can say
• 17:32
  Speaker 9: about him right now is that no matter what was
• 17:34
  Speaker 9: happening with pressure or you know, some of the guys
• 17:37
  Speaker 9: when there were things happening around him bad play, he's
• 17:41
  Speaker 9: shown great poise. I just think overall he's been really
• 17:43
  Speaker 9: inconsistent and there's been, you know, some inconsistent throws. I
• 17:47
  Speaker 9: think the biggest takeaway, and this i'l Tevan up for
• 17:49
  Speaker 9: this is the biggest takeaway I had from when I grinded.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: The film a little bit was that there are guys open.
• 17:54
  Speaker 9: I mean, it's clearly like Josh is getting guys open
• 17:57
  Speaker 9: down the field throws that.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: I felt like last year he would have not hesitated
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: to rip.
• 18:02
  Speaker 9: He didn't really rip him in that preseason game, like
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: you said, Fred, maybe they were working on something. So
• 18:07
  Speaker 9: I see it there and I just need Drake to
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: start to put it all together. And I think that's
• 18:11
  Speaker 9: what we're waiting for, and that's why we're going in
• 18:14
  Speaker 9: to close it download. It might be see a week one,
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: but I'm expecting him a little bit of inconsistency. He
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: looks comfortable in the offense, but I think the way
• 18:21
  Speaker 9: that it's manifesting itself is that he's not always seeing it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: It's not always consistent.
• 18:26
  Speaker 9: And again, as Rabel said after the game, this is,
• 18:29
  Speaker 9: you know, third preseason game of this first regime.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: We're trying to get it right. We have to get
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: it right.
• 18:35
  Speaker 9: So I'm patient because I see the players are there
• 18:38
  Speaker 9: to be made and I see some better weapons around him.
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: But there's no question he's got to be more consistent
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: and he's got to stop spraying the ball occasionally, which
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: he did like going back.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: To last year.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm most concerned about the phrase and more concerned
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: about himory in the field right now. I think the
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: sphrase you're gonna have to live with some of those
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: with the type of quarterback and thrower that he is,
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: and I have faith that Josh McDaniels will piece him
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: into these with the play calling and try to get
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: him settled in.
• 19:02
  Speaker 13: It's a big thing with a.
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: Lot of quarterbacks, you know. I think Brady had some
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: of it a little bit. Brett farre certainly, that's like
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: sort of talked about a lot that he was one
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: of those guys that was just so amped up going
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: into the game that they would actually call runs and
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: short passes on purpose to try to get him into
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: the game a little bit and slow him down. The
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: more concerning thing to me is he's having trouble with
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: post snap rotation. So the defense is showing him one
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: thing pre snap, and then they're falling out into a
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: different coverage, and he's holding the football like he's not
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: once he sees that rotation, he's indecisive and not exactly
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: sure what he's looking at. So it happened on the
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: strip sack against Washington. They spun it and he held
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: the football. It happened a couple of times in the
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: game against Minnesota, And the one that's going around is
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: the one that he ends up completing the Matt Collins,
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: but he had two open receivers within the structure or
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: the play that might have been touchdowns if he puts
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: the ball on Douglas and Kyle Williams down the field.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: So you know, Brian Forlors did some tricky things, like
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: they get to cover two in different ways from different looks,
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: and I think.
• 20:12
  Speaker 13: Some of that came up in both games.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: So, like I said, Le's concerned about the sprays because
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: that's that's it, Like he's gonna have one or two
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: of those a game.
• 20:22
  Speaker 13: A little bit more concerned about how he's reading the
• 20:24
  Speaker 13: field at this point.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. You know you would love to see
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: him play like a whole half or you know, to
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: kind of get into a groove. It's tough.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: That's what's interesting to me.
• 20:34
  Speaker 9: I mean, maybe i'm again sometimes these things pop into
• 20:37
  Speaker 9: my head and you know, you guys will be like, no,
• 20:39
  Speaker 9: you're wrong, this is how it happens. But yeah, we
• 20:41
  Speaker 9: had some joint practices, but really haven't seen much of
• 20:43
  Speaker 9: him in the actual preseason games and maybe we don't
• 20:45
  Speaker 9: need to, but that stounds out to me as something
• 20:48
  Speaker 9: that's a little bit different. I think you usually at
• 20:50
  Speaker 9: least see a starting quarterback play a whole first half.
• 20:53
  Speaker 9: But maybe they like the work they're getting in the
• 20:55
  Speaker 9: joint practice. I think like they need.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Nowadays you don't. I think it's become more of the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: norm that you don't see these eyes play a hole certainly.
• 21:02
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say the established guys do not play.
• 21:05
  Speaker 8: But there's an argument to be made that he's not
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: Caleb Williams, Drake May second year, you know, I mean
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: Jade and Daniels didn't even attempt to pass and he played.
• 21:17
  Speaker 8: He didn't play. He didn't play in the Patriots game,
• 21:19
  Speaker 8: but he played last night, didn't even attempt to pass,
• 21:21
  Speaker 8: played four plays and he ran in, as Evan said,
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: for a touchdown.
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: Kind of like they had a I think it was
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: a battle or safety had and Daniels lined up and
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: he actually.
• 21:34
  Speaker 13: Didn't hit him.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Was that right?
• 21:35
  Speaker 14: Yeah?
• 21:36
  Speaker 13: And everybody was getting on battle for it, and I think.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: Respect.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a bad mic here, Okay, so we
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: got we got some in show repairs.
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: So but I do feel like, for the most part,
• 21:54
  Speaker 8: I agree with you, Fred. I don't think that a
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: lot of starting quarterbacks get any kind of extended time,
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: you know, gone the days of that third preseason game
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: that was the dress rehearsal where you know, like the
• 22:06
  Speaker 8: whole first unit would play the whole first half and
• 22:09
  Speaker 8: then the first drive of the second half to go
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: through the half to No one does that anymore. I
• 22:14
  Speaker 8: mean when I say no one, I'm sure that someone
• 22:16
  Speaker 8: has done it in the last few years. But you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 8: Patrick Mahomes and those guys Josh Allen, they don't get
• 22:23
  Speaker 8: any if you know, much, if at any at all.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's playing issue. But I'm in the minority.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: You know. People are like, Okay, September football will suck,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: so I think, but better.
• 22:36
  Speaker 8: But do you think September football is just getting worse
• 22:39
  Speaker 8: because I don't know.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm being told.
• 22:42
  Speaker 8: No, I think it's just always been bad.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh you think it's always been bad.
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah. I mean Bill used to use it as an
• 22:47
  Speaker 8: extension of the preseason in the heart of the dynasty when.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: They you know, well, he knew he was you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: he knew he was old.
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: But I'm just saying I think September football has always
• 22:56
  Speaker 8: been sort of less than ideal. Yeah, you don't really
• 23:01
  Speaker 8: know what you have until you get you know, you
• 23:03
  Speaker 8: get into the heart of like say October, and you
• 23:05
  Speaker 8: sort of settle in. You know what everybody else is doing.
• 23:08
  Speaker 8: They know what you were doing. You made your adjustments.
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: Now you figure it out.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Well, at least we're not the Colts, right They announced
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: today that Daniel Jones is going to be their starter.
• 23:16
  Speaker 8: Does it really, Mattery dimes.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: It matters that they might have whiffed on their quarterback selection.
• 23:21
  Speaker 8: Well, I don't think there's any might. I think that
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: ship is saled. Well, I watched the last two years.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, here's a new season. He still had
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: a chance to win his job and he couldn't do
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it Richardson, And so they're kind of starting over because
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think Daniel. I don't think they're looking at
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Daniel Jones as their quarterback of the future, right, I
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: doubt it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: I think that staff is kind of on the hot
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: seat too. And because Richardson I think has played pretty
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: well in the preseason for what it's worth, but he's
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: so volatile that if you're a coach that needs to
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: win right now, then hitching your wagon to Anthony Richardson
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: is dicey yep.
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: And at least if you're you know, I agree with em,
• 23:59
  Speaker 8: and I think Shane Steichen is looking at it as
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: kind of like Brian Dable when we were talking in
• 24:03
  Speaker 8: the draft, like they're gonna have to find a way
• 24:05
  Speaker 8: to win some games, and Daniel Jones has at least
• 24:08
  Speaker 8: had some success in the NFL, Anthony Richardson really hasn't.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: All right, so off of calls back to our team.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: So we talked about Drake's performance in that preseason game
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: in Minnesota. Offensive line. Again, I'm going to use the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: same caveat I gave to Drake. If I'm not going
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: to like panic about Drake for two series, I'm not
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: going to like judge too much about what I saw
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: from the offensive line. But for the most part, I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: think it was it was pretty good. Would you guys
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: agree or not?
• 24:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, toenerally speaking, sure.
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: It's really small sample size for the starters Campbell, those
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: guys played like fifteen snaps, not a ton of like
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: real drop back passing either, So you only saw like
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: one or two traditional dropbacks in the entire game for
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: those starters. But I think the only thing that you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: maybe a little bit of a question mark right now
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: at center. I don't know if Garrett Bradberry is is
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: solidified right now as the starting center. It could be
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: Ben Brown, could be Jared Wilson. We saw a rotation
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: in there today.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Spots. I mean, I would think right now that the
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: question marks in the line is left guard and center. Yes,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I with my guess and this is just a guess.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Ben Brown's going to start at center and uh, I
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: mean I'm sorry, Ben Brown's going to start at guard
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: and Bradbury's going to start at center. Oh, that's that's
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: my guess right now.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it depends on like how how much
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: they're willing to kind of roll the dice with a
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: younger player and Jared Wilson, Because I think there's no
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: question that Jared Wilson's a better player than Garrett Bradberry.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: But he's going to take some rookie.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm just saying to start, right.
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: So do you live with those out of the gate
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: and let him grow as a player, or you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: Bradberry's had some issues in pass protection. You know he
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: in practice and in the games. So at what point
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: do you say that Jared Wilson is just a better
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: player right than Garrett Brad.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Hopefully sooner than later. But now I want to tie
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: in the offensive line to Drake's performance. So, Evan, you
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: mentioned that you think Drake might have trouble seeing the field.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That's your your concerns sort of right now rather than.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: Last year.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I'm just does McDaniels in in the and the coaches
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: have to work with Drake about resetting his clock, his
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: mental clock from last year to this year, where by
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the end of the season his mental clock had to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: be sped up because he didn't really have any time
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to do anything. And maybe now you have to say, Drake,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: forget about last year. That clock has to be reset
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: because you're going to have a little bit more time.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: You're going to have to stay in there, a little
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: bit longer than you got used to staying in last year.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Is that something you think that could be an issue
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: about why maybe he's not seeing the field the way
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: you think he should or should have in that game.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe, I definitely think that's possible. On one of
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: the plays, he looked like he had Kyle Williams uncovering
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: over the middle of the field on the throwaway, the
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: one he threw it away towards the end of his
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: second drive, and he didn't hang in there. You know,
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: he saw a flash of pressure coming up the middle,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: little stunt inside, and he saw the guy coming free
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: and he just got out of there. If he had
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: hung in there for an extra beat and just kind
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: of feathered the ball over the first level to Kyle Williams.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: Kyle Williams gonna have all sorts of space in the
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: middle of the field. So maybe on like once or twice,
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: I've seen some of that, but a lot of what
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: I saw from the Minnesota tape was just Brian Flora's
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: disguising coverage and when Drake may doesn't get the coverage
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: that he's expecting, like how is his reaction to improvising
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: at that point? Because I think Josh McDaniel is one
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: of those coordinators that's gonna give you a bunch of
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: coverage beaters. And when they anticipate a coverage and then
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: they don't get that coverage, like, how do you react
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: to that post snap? You know, when they show like
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: the slot receiver goes in motion, it looks like it's
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: man to man and then all of a sudden they
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: fall into cover two. Like that's a different look than
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: what you were expecting. So how do you react to that? Like,
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: those are the couple of things.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: But that came up to me. That's becoming offense one
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: on one in the NFL because all teams are doing that.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: They are It's all about deception, right, So if you're
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: not good at that, I don't know how long your
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: career is going to be as an NFL quarterback.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was crazy, Like I thought it was pretty
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: I didn't think that this was like vanilla coverage from
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: the vikings and the joint practices or the preseason game.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: Now they have in a preseason game, they have the
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: nickel corner motioning with Pop Douglas and then dropping into
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: the half field as the half field safety. Like you
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: don't that's not You're not going to see that in
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: college or in high school football. Like that's that's NFL football.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: And so when you see that type of stuff, how
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: does he adjust? You know, he had Pop Douglas on
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: that play on the linebacker in a foot race, and
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: like that's a race that Pop Douglas is gonna win
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: every single time. So you just have to trust it
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: and let it rip. As Deuce was saying earlier, So
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: that was just what I saw. I didn't have his
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: like the high throws don't bother me as much as
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: they do with everybody else, because I'm kind of with you.
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: I think he would he will settle into games and
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: like the amped upness that he clearly had will calm
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: down as the game wears on. I'm more looking at
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: it like, is he's seeing it correctly? And is he
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: seeing rotation?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Hey eye helping that? Not AI but virtual reality? How
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: they do that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Would hope.
• 29:39
  Speaker 9: So, I mean that seems the perfect kind of thing
• 29:41
  Speaker 9: where he can put on a headset and see these
• 29:43
  Speaker 9: kind of coverages that maybe he's not reading correctly right now.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: But a little bit of a disconnect just for me.
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: You never pointed out one play, But like I said
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: at the top, I feel like he's generally been pretty
• 29:53
  Speaker 9: comfortable in the pocket, so it doesn't look like he's
• 29:56
  Speaker 9: panicking a lot or you know, not knowing what he's seeing.
• 29:59
  Speaker 9: It's that's what was so frustrating watching it, is like
• 30:02
  Speaker 9: there it is, Drake, you know, Like when we saw
• 30:04
  Speaker 9: him rip a seam throw today to Hunter Henry, it
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: was beautiful, and then that throw was there to be
• 30:08
  Speaker 9: had in the game and he didn't really seem to
• 30:09
  Speaker 9: throw it. So you're left wondering, how is it's all
• 30:12
  Speaker 9: going to come together in two weeks against the Raiders.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: What's it going to look like with.
• 30:16
  Speaker 9: Josh having to offset their weaknesses having all their complement
• 30:20
  Speaker 9: of weapons that they need.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: You know, everybody seems like they're healthy right now.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds flippant, but it's true. Like we
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: talk about Drake having to get used to maybe having
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit more time, he might have to get
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: used to guys getting open, Like I don't know how
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: often that happened last year. Yeah, I know.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: So it's also dawned on me too about Pop in particular.
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: He's five foot eight, so it's not exactly the biggest
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: catch radius that you're throwing to in that spot. And
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: you know, the one that was high, Like, if that's
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Mac Collins, that's not high, but because it's Pop Douglas,
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: that pass is high. So you have to like learn
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: to throw two different body types at receiver. You know,
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: the player I was talking about or Pop is winning
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: against the linebacker that's throwing a forty yard bomb to
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: a five foot eight wide receiver. And I just wonder
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: if there's maybe a level of trust there down the field,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: Like he clearly will throw the ball to Pop underneath,
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: but when it comes to pushing it, let's down the field, Like,
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: how much trust does he have to that Pop's gonna
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: win the ball down the field?
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I would just say, again not talking about the
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: game specific, but I haven't really seen him have more
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: time in general. The days that I watch practice, and
• 31:35
  Speaker 8: I think we've had eighteen practices now, and I wouldn't
• 31:38
  Speaker 8: even include today when they're not even in full pads,
• 31:40
  Speaker 8: I wouldn't say that time hasn't been an issue anymore,
• 31:44
  Speaker 8: like they have this fixed. You know, from what I
• 31:46
  Speaker 8: read in the joint practices, there were several would be sacks. Now,
• 31:51
  Speaker 8: maybe he eludes some of those because he's such a
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: great athlete, but I don't think time is like, you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 8: he's got the time. He's just got to say. You know,
• 31:59
  Speaker 8: maybe there were some plays in the game that he
• 32:01
  Speaker 8: had the time because all the guys that applied all
• 32:04
  Speaker 8: the pressure and the practices didn't play in the game.
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: But based on what I've seen in practice, well, the
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: amount of time that he has to throw is an issue.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I just say in the game. It didn't seem
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: like he was under duress.
• 32:16
  Speaker 8: No, because they didn't play whatever. So that's what I'm saying.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: If you're to your.
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: Point, like he played fifteen plays.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I know, but if you're rushing it when you don't
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: have duress, what are you going to do when you
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: do have dress?
• 32:27
  Speaker 8: You know, my guess is he's going to have duress
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: based on what I'm watching in practice. Yeah, so I
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: wouldn't get too comfortable. I just don't think my point.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be as bad as
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: last year.
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: It shouldn't be as bad as last year. But that's
• 32:40
  Speaker 8: not really saying a whole lot.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: I it looks pretty significantly better to me than last year,
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: just because of how cohesive they look compared to last year.
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: Like you don't see, you know, the unblocked pressures, the blowbys,
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: the you know, alignment issues like one of those today
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: flags and like all that kind of stuff. You don't
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: see that quite as often in Minnesota. There was pressure,
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: but I actually thought he handled it really well. You know,
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: even Vrabel said like it could have turned into an
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: S storm out here, and it didn't, like he could
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: have Brian Flores could have put him in a blender
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: and he could have been throwing picks left and right
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: and not seeing it. And that didn't happen in Minnesota,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: which made you feel positive. And then he gets into
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: the game and he looks tentative in the game. So
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: the practices he looked good, and then in the game
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: it didn't look so good. So I'm just that there's
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: a disconnect there between those two things that I think
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: is interesting. Between this past week, it was kind of
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: cool we got to see him out in a joint
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: practice for two straight days and then a game.
• 33:37
  Speaker 8: And I have a question for you too, and I
• 33:39
  Speaker 8: haven't really brought this up off air, Jared Wilson, from
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: your from your viewpoint, he came, he was in and
• 33:50
  Speaker 8: out or out of the lineup. I think at times
• 33:52
  Speaker 8: on Thursday's practice performance related, physical related, and maybe a
• 33:57
  Speaker 8: little bit of both.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, ankle, he said he tweaked his ankle a little
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: bit and that was.
• 34:01
  Speaker 9: But what do you think combination of yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 34:05
  Speaker 9: And it seems like he's now back in that mix,
• 34:07
  Speaker 9: So I don't know if that he was out of that.
• 34:10
  Speaker 8: Mixed temporarily like today he was in and out yeah, yeah,
• 34:13
  Speaker 8: that's so, I'm just wondering if they're you know, wondering
• 34:16
  Speaker 8: about him.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I think for sure he's ready.
• 34:18
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, No, I think it's uh right now, It's
• 34:21
  Speaker 9: feels like all three of those guys that interior that
• 34:24
  Speaker 9: you pointed out with brad Berry and Brown and him.
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And have you.
• 34:28
  Speaker 9: Guys experienced this where you get down to the final
• 34:31
  Speaker 9: preseason game and you don't really know two spots on
• 34:33
  Speaker 9: the offensive line.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess we have had.
• 34:35
  Speaker 8: Some uncertain unfortunately we did last year.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: Right, but for different reasons.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: But for the most part, you know, usually no, but
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: that's that was the beauty of the dynasty, is that always?
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: See, That's why I'm wondering about the health. Yeah, Like
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: there's been times, but you don't know if so and
• 34:51
  Speaker 8: so is going to be ready to go. You know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 8: he missed most of camp he had this ankle problem,
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: But we don't know if he's going to be ready
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: to go this kind it doesn't seem like that to me.
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: It's just still trying to figure out what's the best five.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I thought he played really pretty solidly at center
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: in the game. He played thirteen snaps at center and
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: sixteen at left guard, and I thought the snaps at
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: center were pretty good and you can see in the
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: future how he could be a really dynamic center if
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: they keep him there. So I wonder if that's an
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: option this season for him moving forward, because he looks
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: like he could be a really, really good center with
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: some development. So I kind of took it as a
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: I think the initial knee jerk reaction when we were
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: in Minnesota was maybe a demotion, and then this injury
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: thing popped up for him because during warmups in Minnesota,
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: he was warming up with the twos, and so it
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: kind of felt like that.
• 35:46
  Speaker 8: See, this is the insight. That's why I asked the question.
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: But I didn't hear any of this. I didn't read
• 35:51
  Speaker 8: any of this.
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: I didn't like, no one wants to call it a
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: demotion because it's there is an injury, and it's just
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: as weird. It was one of those weird things of
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: we weren't entirely sure, but then I thought he played
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: a lot better in this game than he played in
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: the Commander's game. Then this week he's back out there
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: with the ones, so maybe they saw it the same
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: way too, and now they're like, all right, He's going
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: to be somewhere in the mix here.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Speaker 9: One other thing on this line that Evan and I
• 36:13
  Speaker 9: mentioned during the practice was just a little frustrating that
• 36:16
  Speaker 9: they've drafted so many guards over the past, you know,
• 36:19
  Speaker 9: going back to twenty twenty two, that none of those
• 36:22
  Speaker 9: guys had really seemed to hit. I mean, Cole Strange,
• 36:25
  Speaker 9: Leyden Robinson, Cayden, Wallace City. So number of guys that
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: now were on Ben Brown who came in middle of
• 36:32
  Speaker 9: the last year as a center and now he seems
• 36:34
  Speaker 9: like the top.
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: It's always dangerous to do this because everybody else's camp
• 36:40
  Speaker 8: is great.
• 36:41
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 36:41
  Speaker 8: You look, you look on Twitter around the league, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 8: everybody's got it all figured out. Because everybody at this
• 36:46
  Speaker 8: time of year, as Ryan Rabel loves to say, is undefeated. Right,
• 36:50
  Speaker 8: Jake Andrews looks like he's got a starting spot in
• 36:53
  Speaker 8: Houston lost Jeez to revamp because their aligne was a
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: train wreck last year, much like the Patriots. So they've
• 37:02
  Speaker 8: put a lot of attention, much like the Patriots, and
• 37:05
  Speaker 8: they decided that a guy that evidently didn't fit here
• 37:08
  Speaker 8: I didn't know is a possibility. Mike. He could be
• 37:11
  Speaker 8: the worst center.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: In football play center. Yeah, that's what he was here.
• 37:14
  Speaker 8: You know, I don't know, but I'm just reading stuff
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: about Jake Andrews having a good camp.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: So we let get away.
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: But Murphy's another one who left last year City, So
• 37:28
  Speaker 8: like two years I just listened to Tom Curran on
• 37:31
  Speaker 8: on one of my showers and you know, City, so
• 37:36
  Speaker 8: two years ago was a starter and someone on the
• 37:39
  Speaker 8: radio tried to convince me that he was a Pro
• 37:41
  Speaker 8: Bowl caliber player. That person is no longer in the market.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: That get out of here.
• 37:50
  Speaker 8: But you know, as much as I didn't think that
• 37:54
  Speaker 8: he was a Pro bowler, I mean he was playing
• 37:57
  Speaker 8: and now he's like an afterthought on like the third group.
• 38:01
  Speaker 8: He's not even in the mix at all.
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: Playing for a similar offense with Bill O'Brien, where you know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: you power guards and things like I'm a deuce on
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: that we were talking about it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 8: Like, this is disappointing.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: They've drafted like five or six guys to play the
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: interior and none of them.
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: I mean, it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't be that much of a deal if at the
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: time that they drafted these guys they had a set line, right,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: But they've been really searching for these people for the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: last few.
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: Years, these guys have all had opportunity.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, every year, every team drafts lineman. You need
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of them. You know, you've got five that
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: on there at a time, and guys get hurt. You
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: need a big room if you will alignement on every team, and.
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: So you're always drafting on the roster, right right, You're.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Always drafting lineman and a lot of them don't pan out.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: But on a team where you needed people to step up,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: they weren't able to do that.
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's kind of funny how I feel like
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: the tackles, maybe just because we know it's going to
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: be Moses and Amble, but that was the conversation all
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: off season was about the tackles. And now we're sitting
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: here three weeks ago to the season and we're talking
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: about the guards.
• 39:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah, the only yeah, I mean the question. I don't
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: really feel any better about any of it. But I
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: know the identity of the tackles, Like Evan just said,
• 39:17
  Speaker 8: there is no I mean we can say say, I
• 39:19
  Speaker 8: don't know, I think Lowe is making them. No, Will
• 39:21
  Speaker 8: Campbell's gonna play left tackle and Mogan mos is going
• 39:23
  Speaker 8: to play right tackle. If they're healthy. Right, we know
• 39:26
  Speaker 8: that we don't know exactly what's going to happen at
• 39:29
  Speaker 8: left guard and center right.
• 39:30
  Speaker 9: That's why, like just looking at Thursday night, left to right,
• 39:34
  Speaker 9: that offensive line, it's you know, Vederian Lowe, Kayden Wallace,
• 39:37
  Speaker 9: Cole Strange City So and Marcus Bryant at right tackle.
• 39:40
  Speaker 9: I think that's an interesting group to watch. You're looking
• 39:42
  Speaker 9: for something to watch in a final preseason game.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I thinks a development absolutely.
• 39:47
  Speaker 9: And that's and of all the guys that you drafted
• 39:49
  Speaker 9: as a seventh rounder, he's been shown the most promised.
• 39:51
  Speaker 8: He's staying in the program.
• 39:53
  Speaker 9: Yeah, sorry, Can any of those guys, especially let the
• 39:56
  Speaker 9: two guards, Can any of those guys show anything where
• 39:59
  Speaker 9: you say, she's let's hang on to this guy, maybe
• 40:01
  Speaker 9: there's something there. I mean, Laydon Robinson was a guy
• 40:03
  Speaker 9: last year that played a lot that had some positive
• 40:06
  Speaker 9: vibes at one time. And you know, he hasn't really
• 40:08
  Speaker 9: done anything to make any kind of move. He hasn't
• 40:10
  Speaker 9: really gotten any chance.
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: Even since the spring he was running with the threes
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: like all the way back in you know, May and
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: in June, like he hasn't made any push. I don't know,
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: it's it. I think there's an identity for the team
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: and for the line that I that I think is better.
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: Like they're going to be able to run the ball,
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: I think, and they're going to be able to play physically,
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: and they're going to have that Vabel thing where they're
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: going to be able to, you know, impose their will
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: as they say, on certain teams, and be able to
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: run that football, especially like behind Campbell. But the pass
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: protection is the real question mark. Now if you play
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: action and do all that type of stuff off the
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: run game, like maybe you limit you take like instead
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: of twenty five drop backs, you limit that to like
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: fifteen a game, and that's a way to take the
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: exposure away from some of those players and pass protection.
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: But you know, at least there's that, Like I think
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: that in all these games and even in practice a
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: little bit, I've noticed a physicality and an ability to
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: run the football that's better than what we see.
• 41:12
  Speaker 8: Something else we saw today that the three of us
• 41:13
  Speaker 8: were talking about watching practice, it looked like they were
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: moving the pocket a lot, trying to anyway a lot
• 41:19
  Speaker 8: of the stuff that Evan's talking about with the play action,
• 41:21
  Speaker 8: you know, the little West Coast kind of you know,
• 41:23
  Speaker 8: half boot the other way, leaking Trevion Henderson out. A
• 41:27
  Speaker 8: couple of times they would drag like Kayshawn Boudinot's you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 8: Kayshaan booty would come across the formation because they got
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: everything going this way and then you're going to throw
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: it back across the other way.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: But let's use that as it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 8: But moving pockets are going to help the past protet.
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: If you can sell it, then he gets out in
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: space and he should be by himself.
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: Now, last year when they tried those things, they could
• 41:48
  Speaker 8: like on the first play of the game on a
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: Thursday night game against the Jets and Jacoby Brissett got killed.
• 41:53
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, uh, but using that as a transition into
• 41:55
  Speaker 9: the other side of the ball. So that was something
• 41:57
  Speaker 9: we talked about in the joint practices, which you know, Paul,
• 41:59
  Speaker 9: you were member with the commanders.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Here we saw zach Ertz.
• 42:02
  Speaker 9: I know you were watching the d but zach Ertz
• 42:03
  Speaker 9: had pretty nice day, especially right out of the gate,
• 42:06
  Speaker 9: and then in day two all to talk about how
• 42:09
  Speaker 9: much the Vikings really bounced back and had a good
• 42:12
  Speaker 9: defensive plan. Somebody, thank you, I forget who was sent
• 42:15
  Speaker 9: us a tweet saying that Kevin O'Connell was micd up
• 42:17
  Speaker 9: on their preseason broadcast and they said, he said, and
• 42:20
  Speaker 9: the second day of the joint practices, they've kind of
• 42:24
  Speaker 9: schemed it up a little bit.
• 42:26
  Speaker 10: Now.
• 42:26
  Speaker 9: I asked that Core about that, and he's like, I
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: don't know about schemed it up, but we talked a
• 42:30
  Speaker 9: lot on the postgame show about something that this is
• 42:32
  Speaker 9: the kind of defense where teams are going to try
• 42:34
  Speaker 9: to use that aggressiveness against them with screen passes and
• 42:37
  Speaker 9: little dump offs to the tight ends. And you look
• 42:39
  Speaker 9: at who's coming in here week one with Ashton genty
• 42:42
  Speaker 9: and as a screen threat or Brock Bauers as you know,
• 42:44
  Speaker 9: a threat for the tight end position, and you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 9: my mind schematically starts to add up, like, Okay, this
• 42:50
  Speaker 9: is gonna be a tough little matchup. And if the
• 42:52
  Speaker 9: Raiders have been kind of paying attention to what these
• 42:53
  Speaker 9: guys have been doing, there's probably gonna be a lot
• 42:56
  Speaker 9: of that stuff. There's gonna be a lot of screens
• 42:57
  Speaker 9: that they're gonna have to deal with. So I'm interested
• 43:00
  Speaker 9: to see if the.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Patriots are aware of that.
• 43:02
  Speaker 9: And what I asked that Core was like, is that
• 43:04
  Speaker 9: helpful to you guys if you felt like you're getting
• 43:06
  Speaker 9: game planned a tiny bit. Just I mean, I think
• 43:08
  Speaker 9: that'd be really helpful to go into a practice where
• 43:10
  Speaker 9: it's like, hey, we're going to attack your weaknesses today
• 43:12
  Speaker 9: and show you what they are. And so now the
• 43:15
  Speaker 9: defensive players have a sense of once teams get a
• 43:18
  Speaker 9: sense of what our defensive scheme is, which again they're
• 43:20
  Speaker 9: keeping very closely wrapped up right now, we might see
• 43:23
  Speaker 9: a lot of this stuff. So it's just something to
• 43:25
  Speaker 9: watch as we get into that season, the ability to
• 43:27
  Speaker 9: use the aggressiveness against them with the way they want
• 43:31
  Speaker 9: to go get the ball.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk wide receivers a little bit. Have
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: we learned anything since our last show on Thursday about
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: what this group is going to look like.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of guys hurt that right now.
• 43:41
  Speaker 9: I'd say that's my headline right now because Kyle Williams, Chisholm,
• 43:46
  Speaker 9: Javon Baker.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: We're all out today.
• 43:48
  Speaker 9: Jalen Polk, Jalen Polk and Kendrick Bourn haven't been seen
• 43:52
  Speaker 9: and we're going on weeks now.
• 43:53
  Speaker 8: I think they added another one who I don't know
• 43:55
  Speaker 8: if you guys have seen on Twitter if anybody is
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: reported the number twenty.
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: Two was they have Phil Let's yesterday yesterday tough.
• 44:02
  Speaker 8: And another another small, smallish guy number twenty two in white.
• 44:07
  Speaker 8: You know, they don't have a lot of bodies. Yeah,
• 44:10
  Speaker 8: this crowded room is not as crowded right now because
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: five receivers didn't practice today.
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: I just I'm just I don't know what's going on
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: with Baker, but it sounds like Chisholm is going to
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: be fine. Then obviously we assume that don't be We assume,
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: you know, Kyle Williams maybe concussion protocol. That's just a guess,
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: like based off of what happened in the game. So
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: I don't think it changes though much about like the roster,
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: because like you know, Kyle Williams is going to be here.
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: I think Chisham made the team. Sorry Paul so to
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: apologize to me. That's six guys, like I'm not one of.
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: I don't know everybody wants to keep seven to keep
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: Javon Baker around. I'm just not as as obsessed with that.
• 44:53
  Speaker 8: I wouldn't keep six, So I'm not obsessed with Javon
• 44:56
  Speaker 8: Baker by any means.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I think he got kind of unfairly criticized in that
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: last game, Baker. I mean, I think he was one
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: seven targets, one catch, but a lot of those throws
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: were way off, don't you think I do?
• 45:09
  Speaker 9: But I'm just I think generally this is more of
• 45:13
  Speaker 9: the same, which is just riding the roller coaster, and
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: at a certain point you have to ask yourself, are
• 45:17
  Speaker 9: we ever going to be able to trust on this
• 45:19
  Speaker 9: guy one hundred percent of the snaps that we play
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: him to always do the right thing. Penalty and the
• 45:24
  Speaker 9: false start inside the red zone is you know, and
• 45:26
  Speaker 9: you could see his reaction.
• 45:29
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: I'm kind of over the roller coaster with him, and
• 45:31
  Speaker 9: there's still a lot of people that really believe in him.
• 45:34
  Speaker 9: But now you come out here and tomorrow or Thursday
• 45:36
  Speaker 9: nights his time to shine and he I don't know
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: why he missed practice today.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, maybe him and Anthony Jennings are getting.
• 45:41
  Speaker 8: Their packing their backs.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: And go to Washington for a trade.
• 45:43
  Speaker 9: I don't know, but you know, he he's gotta, he's gotta.
• 45:49
  Speaker 9: I'm just sick of trying to be like, well, he's
• 45:50
  Speaker 9: got to get on the dad. It's like we keep
• 45:52
  Speaker 9: just saying the same stuff over and over again. For
• 45:54
  Speaker 9: a little while this summer, it felt like he was
• 45:56
  Speaker 9: starting to string together some practices. But then you look,
• 46:00
  Speaker 9: it's just the stat it's like, well, seven targets, one catch,
• 46:02
  Speaker 9: you know, it's yes, you're right, some throws were bad.
• 46:04
  Speaker 9: And but at the same time, you want a guy
• 46:08
  Speaker 9: that you think you can trust, and I have a
• 46:09
  Speaker 9: hard time developing trust with him right now.
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he's just got this weird He just doesn't finish
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: plays like you know, all the time, like the one
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: in the back of the end zone, like he just
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: stops running his route. Yeah, yeah, I think it wasn't
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: a great throw, but Dobbs thought he was going to
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: keep running the back of the end zone and when
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: he came out of the break, he just stopped.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: I thought the same thing.
• 46:31
  Speaker 9: I was like, why did he Like he just thought
• 46:33
  Speaker 9: the ball was going to be on him, right, And
• 46:35
  Speaker 9: then you could just like I watched that like three
• 46:37
  Speaker 9: or four times.
• 46:37
  Speaker 8: I'm like, hey, just I can.
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: See it both ways, like if you want to, you know,
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: wherever you want to place thata blame or whatever. But
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: there's that and then like the speed out, Yeah he
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: ran like earlier in the game, wasn't a great route,
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: and it's just like these like these finishing elements, Like
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: even the ball that he caught, I thought was like
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: kind of lucky that the ball even got to him,
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: Like the defender was all over him and will Ridge
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: somehow kind of snuck it in. So I just I'm
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: with Duce, like I feel like we just got to
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: quit it, like you just keep on ride in this
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: roller coaster with him.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And yeah, all right, And I know it's against Scrubs,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: and I know it's not with the first team offense,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: but Chisholm is taking advantage of every opportunity he's being given.
• 47:19
  Speaker 9: He really is well, I mean, what else can you
• 47:21
  Speaker 9: say He's Yeah.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: I mean I was talking to Paul about him yesterday
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: and you know, to me, it was.
• 47:26
  Speaker 9: Just the the football player aspect of it. And you know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 9: you can tell me you've seen these guys do it before,
• 47:33
  Speaker 9: but to me, he looked really good out there.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: He looked like a guy.
• 47:36
  Speaker 9: That I would want on my team, that I would want,
• 47:38
  Speaker 9: you know, to continue to develop.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: He's got decent size.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: It's not all life scataboo.
• 47:42
  Speaker 9: I want well, you know, it's not like it's a
• 47:44
  Speaker 9: guy who's he's heard too, who's five ft seven, you know,
• 47:47
  Speaker 9: five foot seven, one hundred and eighty pounds that you're
• 47:49
  Speaker 9: thinking you're going to take a chance on. Like, I mean,
• 47:51
  Speaker 9: he's a well built athlete. And anytime you have a
• 47:54
  Speaker 9: player to me that makes a catch two yards short
• 47:57
  Speaker 9: of the line to gain and can break multiple tackles
• 48:00
  Speaker 9: to get through, it's a really good sign. I don't
• 48:03
  Speaker 9: know if he has a role right now on the offense,
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: but you know, between Kayshawn Boody and Pop Douglas and
• 48:10
  Speaker 9: Stefan Diggs, like there might be some snaps eventually there
• 48:14
  Speaker 9: for him this year if injuries come into play. So
• 48:17
  Speaker 9: I was impressed with I don't know how you couldn't
• 48:19
  Speaker 9: watch what he did and not say that guy's doing
• 48:21
  Speaker 9: everything he can to try to make this team right now.
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he made the team in Minnesota. I
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: just he didn't in practice too, Like it wasn't just
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: the game, like he was dominating Minnesota's two's in practice also,
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: and you just look at I think the two biggest
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: things are the play strength is obvious, Like he's got
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: some play strength to him that maybe that archetype doesn't
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: typically lend itself to. He's got a great feel for
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: space and like uncovering and just sort of understanding like
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: how to literally like how to play football, like not
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: just how to run routes, but like how to find
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: space and get himself open and be quarterback friendly. And
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: this is a guy that you know, at of Eastern
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: Washington had huge production and he just ran a four
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: to seven forty like that that's really all it was. Like,
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: he just ran a really bad forty and it made
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: him go undrafted. But he was a Day three talent
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: that just happened to fall out of getting drafted because
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: he ran a bad forty. Time killed the East West
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: Shrine game. Ripped it up there, has ripped it up,
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: you know, in the training camp with the Patriots. So sometimes,
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: like you this is there's a long history of receivers
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: that haven't ran a great forty that have gone on
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: to be really good NFL players. Like it's not the
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: end all be all, but unfortunately for a lot of teams,
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: there's thresholds and when you run a four to seven
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: at a skill position, you're just not you're not draftball.
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: What did Bucky Irving run? I still always look at
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: him him.
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: Like like KI four six as I want to say, right, So,
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: like there's a lot of guys like that. And you know,
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: I remember talking to Eric Galco at the at the
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: Shrine Bowl saying that out of anybody that was at
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: the Shrine Game, he was most disappointed that Chisholm didn't
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: get drafted because he was the guy that he felt
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: like was draftable by every measure except the forty yard dash.
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: And so that was, you know, one of those guys
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: for him. So I don't think that it's totally a
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: fluke what he's doing, because he did this in college.
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: I don't think it's a fluke. So everybody records, right,
• 50:22
  Speaker 8: everybody said this was going to happen. He's going to
• 50:24
  Speaker 8: have a huge preseason. I read that nine thousand times.
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: I don't think it's a fluke at all.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 50:34
  Speaker 8: I expected him to be the Patriots leading receiver in
• 50:37
  Speaker 8: the preseason because of the style.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Of play, not because he's a good wide receiver.
• 50:44
  Speaker 8: No. I didn't say that, Oh, I said because of
• 50:47
  Speaker 8: the routes that he runs are going to lend you
• 50:49
  Speaker 8: to quick completions that are going to be you know,
• 50:53
  Speaker 8: when you have those guys out there like Josh Dobbs
• 50:56
  Speaker 8: and Wooldridge. They're going to be looking for a safety
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: blanket that uncovers quickly. His style is uncovering quickly. That's
• 51:03
  Speaker 8: what he does, all right.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: But if you can uncover quickly and catch the ball
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: when it's thrown to you in this league, you might
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: have a job.
• 51:10
  Speaker 8: We'll see, Yeah, we'll see. What do you think I
• 51:15
  Speaker 8: think he's going to make the team. I don't think
• 51:18
  Speaker 8: they have any options. I mean, Mike just rattled off
• 51:22
  Speaker 8: five different guys that are not out there. So if
• 51:27
  Speaker 8: Evans well, I think he's going to make it by default. Yes,
• 51:30
  Speaker 8: if Evan's right, If Evan's right and his injury is
• 51:34
  Speaker 8: not serious, then I think he's going to make the team.
• 51:38
  Speaker 8: I think they're going to keep probably born in polk
• 51:42
  Speaker 8: on ir to start the year, and that's how they're
• 51:45
  Speaker 8: going to layer in their depth at receiver. But I mean,
• 51:49
  Speaker 8: someone's got to make the team.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I know that people are hurting right now.
• 51:53
  Speaker 8: I would only keep five receivers, but I don't know
• 51:56
  Speaker 8: about the health status of all these guys.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: Williams Chisholm might be the fifth receiver right now.
• 52:01
  Speaker 8: Exactly if Kyle Williams is not ready to go. I mean,
• 52:05
  Speaker 8: concussions can be a week, it can be two months.
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: Who knows if he if he has a concussion, we
• 52:10
  Speaker 8: should probably say that.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: We don't. We don't know that.
• 52:13
  Speaker 8: But you guys told me that looked like he dealing
• 52:15
  Speaker 8: with something with his head. Again, I know that you
• 52:18
  Speaker 8: think I'm exaggerating Fred just because I did not see
• 52:21
  Speaker 8: any of the game. I understand, so I don't know
• 52:23
  Speaker 8: what happened to Kyle Williams, but you guys are telling
• 52:25
  Speaker 8: me it might be head related.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: At the I thought it was a clean hit.
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it wasn't a hit bang bang. Was it
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: a penalty?
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: No?
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: No, I think one though the throat just the pastor.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: You want to talk hospital ball.
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: That's what everybody wrote.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that was accurate.
• 52:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah, but yeah, I'm not I'm not going to argue
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: with something I didn't I can't argue with things that
• 52:51
  Speaker 8: I don't have the information.
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna make it even me Chisholm's targets from from
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: Saturday for Paul, and I'm just going to text it
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: to him after the year, just so you know.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I'm still I told you I don't know if people
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: are familiar with the movie Clockwork Orange, but it's this
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: guy that's really bad, and they try to rehabilitate him
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: by making him watch these horrible videos and they literally
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: they pin his eyes open. That's what we're gonna do, Paul.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: We're gonna make him watch all of Chisholm's highlight reels.
• 53:20
  Speaker 8: I just like, the only thing that I would say
• 53:23
  Speaker 8: that I that I just everything you guys said, I would,
• 53:25
  Speaker 8: I would agree with you know, I think he's done
• 53:27
  Speaker 8: everything he could possibly do. The only thing I would
• 53:30
  Speaker 8: say is I've seen this story countless. Yeah, though maybe
• 53:35
  Speaker 8: this one's different, Maybe this one will be Edelman.
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, like this is better than Gunner Oshefski.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: But Chefsky didn't do this.
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: That's what I do this.
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, chism is better.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but I'm just saying, like, if if
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Ohevsky had a good he didn't have the preseason that
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Chishom's having.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: No, I agree, all right, That's what I'm saying. Like
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: I think that the ones that I've seen, I don't
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: go all the way back to Austin Carr and Riley
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: Karen and like, but like you know, jem.
• 54:07
  Speaker 15: Uh, you know, is the future of the New England Patriots.
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: I don't go back that far, but I do you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: Barrios Gunner like Chisholm has been better. I agree, but
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: I I admit to like kind of to Paul's point,
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: if if Josh McDaniels wasn't the offensive coordinator, we wouldn't
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: be talking about this like this is because there's a
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: specific role in this specific offense that he just fits
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: like a glove like that. That's why he's a you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: a legitimate candidate to make the roster on like thirty
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: one other teams he might not be, but because they
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: have the thought receiver role here that Josh knows how
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: to use better than probably anybody else. We're doing it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: We're doing Chisholm.
• 54:51
  Speaker 9: I mean, this is to me, it feels like if
• 54:53
  Speaker 9: there was ever a Pop Douglas injury, it's Chisholm go time,
• 54:58
  Speaker 9: Like who else can.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: Ye do that?
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: And he's bigger than Pop, which I think is kind
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: of a factor, Like he's a bigger target. He's you know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: got a little bit more play strength to him. Pop's
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: definitely more dynamic, but Chishm's a little bit easier to
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: throw the ball to.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, all right, eight five five Pats
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: five hundred is the hotline podcast at Patriots dot com.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Is the email that's how you get in touch with us,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: and uh so, let's open it up. We've talked a lot.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Let's see what you have to say. Sam is in
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: North Carolina. He starts it off. Yeah, sorry, Paul, What
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: are you sorry about?
• 55:41
  Speaker 16: Sam?
• 55:42
  Speaker 8: What did I do? What did I do?
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 55:45
  Speaker 17: Sorry, Paul, I.
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: Can't state this anymore emphatically. I'm not arguing with anybody
• 55:55
  Speaker 8: about Chishom. I didn't see it. So you guys can
• 55:59
  Speaker 8: tell you all.
• 55:59
  Speaker 13: You did see it.
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: You could argue, well, no, that.
• 56:01
  Speaker 8: I would have some knowledge to talk about. I would say, wow,
• 56:05
  Speaker 8: you guys are right, this was an incredible performance. His
• 56:09
  Speaker 8: toughness is hard. All this great. I saw it. I
• 56:12
  Speaker 8: didn't see it, so I can't tell you you're wrong.
• 56:14
  Speaker 8: I'm not arguing with anybody. You guys tell me he's
• 56:17
  Speaker 8: on the roster. He's on the roster.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, But.
• 56:25
  Speaker 10: Dreck Laye's ability to bounce back. I don't know if
• 56:27
  Speaker 10: you guys see that every day, but like if he
• 56:29
  Speaker 10: does the wrong, it always thinks like do go back
• 56:31
  Speaker 10: and you know, correct his mistates go does you have
• 56:35
  Speaker 10: to get up at the school both times the same
• 56:36
  Speaker 10: time he was on the stude. But pre season, I
• 56:39
  Speaker 10: don't know that I like that astivity about it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 14: What do you guess?
• 56:41
  Speaker 17: See?
• 56:42
  Speaker 7: All right?
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: Thanks, It's hard to say.
• 56:45
  Speaker 9: I think Drake's been pretty steady emotionally. It doesn't really
• 56:47
  Speaker 9: feel like you're on a roller coaster. And despite some
• 56:50
  Speaker 9: of the clunkiness and recent practices, I will say I
• 56:52
  Speaker 9: think I think he's been better in these last week
• 56:55
  Speaker 9: or so in the end of practice situational stuff where
• 56:59
  Speaker 9: first few games or practices excuse me, even the end
• 57:03
  Speaker 9: stadium practice. You saw some turnovers. You just saw some clunkiness,
• 57:06
  Speaker 9: those drives dying out middle of the field where they
• 57:09
  Speaker 9: just get off the field. It hasn't been perfect, but
• 57:11
  Speaker 9: there's been better performances, especially like today, and again.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: Take it for what it is, how competitive it was,
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: but you know, I.
• 57:18
  Speaker 9: Think those things have been have been positive. Just needs
• 57:20
  Speaker 9: to put it all together. I've seen elements of everything,
• 57:23
  Speaker 9: but he needs to start hitting the big plays when
• 57:25
  Speaker 9: they're there.
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: And you know, but again I think that there's some
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: time to this, like.
• 57:29
  Speaker 9: Understanding how the Josh offense is gonna mesh with the rotations,
• 57:34
  Speaker 9: And certainly got great experience this week in Minnesota with
• 57:37
  Speaker 9: all the different fronts that Brian Flores was throwing at them,
• 57:40
  Speaker 9: the different pressures from different areas. So hopefully all this
• 57:43
  Speaker 9: experience starts to translate. But I still remain a little
• 57:47
  Speaker 9: cautious because I think it might be a little up
• 57:49
  Speaker 9: and down early on, and he's gonna need some time.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: To really get a feel. But I expect that Josh
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: will do a lot to protect.
• 57:55
  Speaker 9: Him and protect what they know their weaknesses are coming
• 57:58
  Speaker 9: out of camp.
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you'd like to see him more of what Paul
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: is the more Patriot plays, where like it's just in
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: rhythm and they're in a rhythm and they're moving the
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: ball because like even the third down conversion he had
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: in the game is happens out of structure. It happens
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: when he breaks the pocket and runs around and makes
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: a play, which is great. Like I'm not you know me,
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: I'm for all that, like as Josh Allen right, like
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: let's we can do all that type of stuff, but
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: there was a play to be made in the pocket,
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: So like can we make the play in the pocket
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: ninety percent of the time and only save the out
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: of structure stuff when you got to put the Superman
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: type on.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Rye DC's in Virginia.
• 58:35
  Speaker 18: Hey DC, Okay, Yes, basically I wanted to say it,
• 58:44
  Speaker 18: like what I have to say this, how much better
• 58:48
  Speaker 18: are the other teams across the league when it comes
• 58:50
  Speaker 18: to like they personnel well, because we understand that these
• 58:54
  Speaker 18: other things, they.
• 58:55
  Speaker 17: Don't have a lot of workbies on one, they don't
• 58:57
  Speaker 17: have a lot of worbis at all receiver teams, but
• 59:01
  Speaker 17: at least the TV's are able to see if you
• 59:04
  Speaker 17: move around, went in the pocket and uh send it
• 59:07
  Speaker 17: to and found the receiver and throwing with the acricy
• 59:09
  Speaker 17: a Tom that's not really jack Man at this point
• 59:12
  Speaker 17: or whatever, because I feel like this Sea has enough
• 59:14
  Speaker 17: far components wise far on defense team and then you
• 59:19
  Speaker 17: know to be track talk but at least get by
• 59:21
  Speaker 17: someone on the offense. But you has to be better
• 59:23
  Speaker 17: to deliver the ball because right like a guy like
• 59:25
  Speaker 17: Tom Walliams, he fights like fox.
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: Put in the street.
• 59:29
  Speaker 17: If you had to comp the ball, you know and
• 59:32
  Speaker 17: sing the pure from That's all I wanted to say.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: All right, thank you, I straight got that, what do
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: you think.
• 59:40
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't really think I got what he
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: was saying there.
• 59:43
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, a little hard to kind of in and out, Matt.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: All right, I don't think this speaker over here is working.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Just just so you know, I.
• 59:53
  Speaker 5: Am more optimistic about their ability to get guys open.
• 59:56
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: I don't know if that's the combination of the receiver
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: room is better McDaniels mostly, McDaniels mostly the other thing.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: I don't know, but I the joint practice in Minnesota
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: and even the game, like there are open guys whereas.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: Before, right there's just nobody else the.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: Protection breaks down in half a second or there's nobody open.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: And I do think that there's been open guys in
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: both instances. So do that with what you will. I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: guess that's a positive.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 10: Now.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: That was the same thing I thought when I flipped
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: it on. I was like, Holy cred the guys are it's.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: Against Minnesota and signs, but guys that are going to
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: make Minnesota's roster, Like we're not talking about you know,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: fourth and fifth string guys that are gonna be on
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: waivers in a week like.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: Coming off four win seasons, I'll take it.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Emery is in Virginia. What's up, Emory? To gentlemen,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: what's happening?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 14: All right, I'm going to express some things too, and
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 14: if if you don't matter, I would like for Paul
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 14: Paul to respawn first. But I had a question. First,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 14: do you do the kid? Do you think the kid
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 14: has that that clutch gene? Because I'm a little concerned.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: We don't know yet.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 8: We're talking about I'm talking about.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 14: Right, Yeah, I want to I want to throw. I
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 14: want to throw a little bit more than our turn
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 14: it loose because his first three to his first three
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 14: throws in that game against the Vikings, we're not NFL
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 14: level starting quarterback. And and I know the kid has
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 14: the talent, and there's no question the talent is there,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 14: but I do have some concerns about his his mental
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 14: his mental makeup, because we can't blame it on the line.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 14: On those three throws, the line held up and the
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 14: receivers were open. He overthrew pop by pop was opened
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 14: by at least ten yards.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but ten years. But he was wide open. You're right, yep.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 16: Yeah.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 14: And my last thing here, my last thing, my last
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 14: thing and Josh connew Josh May made Mac Jones like
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 14: an NFL starting level quarterback. So again, please break it
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 14: down for me and explain to me. Paul, would you
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 14: mind going first on that. Please don't serve.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 8: I don't know what I'm trying to break down.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry you think that. Well. The first question was
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: he's worried that Drake doesn't have the clutch team.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 8: So I would just say that that is a big
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 8: question mark. I don't think that he showed a lot
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 8: of I don't think he showed a lot of clutch
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 8: clutchness in college at North Carolina. I think in some
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 8: of the bigger games that they had, they had a
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 8: good team. His first year as the full time starter,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 8: they had at a pretty good roster. I thought they
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 8: had some games that they had a chance to win
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 8: that they didn't, And certainly it was very few and
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 8: far between last year, but there were a handful of
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 8: times with it. The game that really sticks out to
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 8: me is Tennessee. You know, you have this desperation drive
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 8: at the end of the game where you're not really
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 8: expected to do anything, and they got out him miraculously
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 8: based on his unbelievable individual play. Tie the game well,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 8: now you have a chance to win it and you
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 8: throw a pick like that's way unfair to say he
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 8: doesn't have it because of that one play. But maybe
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 8: if you picked. The jury's the jury's out. The jury's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 8: out on whether or not he has what it takes,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 8: because I think that's what separates a lot of these guys.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 8: I don't think mac Jones had what it took. You know,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 8: he said that Josh McDaniels mate Mac Jones looking an
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 8: NFL Cariber player. I never saw that. I was adamant
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 8: at the time. He never had the clutch gene. They
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 8: only won one way, and that's if they scored like
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 8: fourteen points in the first quarter. Usually ten of those
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 8: were on defense, and they play by the door and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 8: they held on. If he was asked to come from behind,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 8: mac Jones couldn't do it. So did he have the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 8: clutch gene? I would say, no, I don't know.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: If Mac we don't know.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 9: May to me it's the number one question. I've been
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 9: saying it since the spring of Is Drake a killer?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 9: That is, there's plenty of talented quarterbacks in the NFL,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 9: guys that have its size and the arm strength and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 9: all that, but when it gets down to brass tacks
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 9: at the end of the game, who's the guy that
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 9: can lead their team? And I just where I'm wondering,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 9: is is it a confidence thing? And maybe even if
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 9: he doesn't have it right now and initially out of
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 9: the gate, as he gets more comfortable in the offense
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 9: and he really starts to grasp what they're.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: Trying to do.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 9: In his second year as an NFL quarterback, which knows
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 9: everybody says is a year of huge growth, Ben, does
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 9: he start to find it because he's just confident?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 9: I don't know if those things exist independently of each other.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 9: Can't Can you be clutch without total confidence in what
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 9: you're doing.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 8: When they start to increase the level of talent around him,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 8: does that allow him to settle into these know these
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 8: situations a little bit better? Or do you know last year?
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 8: It would be certainly understandable if he's looking at say
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: like the Rams game here and Rams are a pretty
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 8: good team. They come in here, they got red hot.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 8: In the middle of that game, Stafford and Nakua and
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 8: Cup were killing them and I think they scored like
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 8: four straight touchdowns. You could sort of get overwhelmed by that,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 8: and then all of a sudden, you get the ball
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 8: at the end of the game and you're down six.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 8: You got a chance to win it. And I would
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 8: be understandable if mac Jones looked at that and said,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 8: I got to put this all on my shoulders. I
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 8: got to do it, and he made a bad play. Now,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 8: there's certainly a lot of question about that play, whether
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 8: or not Tomario Douglas should have sat down in that
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 8: zone and whatnot. But I think there's a lot more
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 8: to it than just the flat out result. It's easy
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 8: to sit there and say, well, they had a chance
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 8: to win this game late, this game, late, this game, late,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 8: they didn't win any of them. Well, he's not clutch.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 8: There's probably some nuance involved in contextual situation.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I think my answer is, we just haven't seen it yet.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 8: I haven't seen it.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: We haven't seen any we don't know.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 8: And fairness, Tom Brady's second h third career start, you
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 8: saw it right, third career start, you know, and the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 8: team was not supposed to be any good. They were
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 8: one and three at the time, and he brought the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 8: team back from ten down against the Chargers and one.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: I just think we're like the whole clutch thing to be.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: I think we're like, there's like ten steps from now
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: for Drake, like can they be in some more games first,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: and like can they be competitive? And can they have
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: some success and get like they're not. I don't think
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: that we're at the point where we're talking about is
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 5: he a killer or clutch enough for them to like
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: go on a playoff run? Like we gotta.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 8: Know, but you got to win games, and yeah, there's
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 8: times in the games.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: That steps Like I just feel like the clutch thing
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: is you know, we all want to win right away
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: and it's it might be a little bit more of
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: something that we determined down the line.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Sure it could be. I just yeah, I in fairness,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: he hasn't been given enough opportunities to show us yet.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: So the jury's out though. And you know, to be clutch,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: you need to be tough as nails. And I would
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: say Brunt is clutch of course because they're tough as nails.
• 1:07:05
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• 1:07:13
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• 1:07:16
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• 1:07:18
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• 1:07:21
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• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: take a break. My foods here will be right back
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: after this.
• 1:07:31
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  Speaker 7: How are you doing? I'm good?
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 11: Usually you have to stay for the game to be
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 11: able to ask the first question.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 7: Go ahead, kid, since people want to see.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 20: You before throughsday as our last opportunity chat with you
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 20: and I know you like to go day to day,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 20: but we have a plan for who might play and
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 20: who might not play Thursday. I mean, will you have
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 20: regulars playing or try to hold them money?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 11: I think with a quick turnaround, I think we'll have
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 11: to just manage some of those reps.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 7: But yes, obviously try to have a plan.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 11: Quick turnaround. These are gonna be two important days here.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 11: We're going to get back out here. We'll be in
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 11: a red zone today and then there'll be a group
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 11: of guys that get a lot of reps tomorrow.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 7: That are going to be a good important reps.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 11: So based on how that goes, that'll that'll tell me
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 11: a lot for for Thursday night.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 7: How much evaluation is that there is the most of
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 7: Hay in the barn?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 7: No, I mean I don't think that that's ever.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 11: I mean we're always trying to evaluate and improve. I
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 11: can't see a scenario where we never not want to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 11: do that and continue to try to improve the roster,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 11: or continue to evaluate who we think is going to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 11: give us the best chance to win and and also
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 11: who has shown enough to want to work with on
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 11: the practice squad or who could have You know, again,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 11: we've talked about the different types of players that maybe
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 11: you end up on the practice squad throughout the league,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 11: whether that's a young developmental player or maybe somebody that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 11: can be called uh called up for the game quickly
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 11: on short notice.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 21: How did you being able to watch the film, how
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 21: do you feel like Will performed?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 20: Uh?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 8: Anxiety's game?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 21: He did fine, like I practice performance versus preseason performance,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 21: and speaking specifically to Baker and Jennies, seems like Baker
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 21: shows up quite a bit in the eleven on eleven's year.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 7: But then the games we've had art time hitting and
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 7: you go.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 22: On offsteak jenmis for was shands hedn't happen.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 7: I'm gonna show that some of these as well.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 11: We don't ever underestimate the performance in the game and
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 11: live action.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 16: Uh.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 7: And yeah, I don't.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 11: Think Javon, you know, would have liked to have been
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 11: able to connect on some of those passes and those targets.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 7: He's stuck with it.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 11: I liked where his attitude was and his ability to
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 11: play on special teams and then even late in the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 11: game to try to block We threw a screen out
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 11: there to Giles and he's attached and he's trying to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 11: finish and then found a found a reception there late,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 11: so I think that has that shows some growth. I
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 11: think that could be u for a young player when
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 11: it doesn't go your way early, I think maybe it
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 11: could have been an opportunity to kind of just pack
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 11: it up, and I didn't see that from him. And
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 11: again my indication to that is the fact that late
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 11: in the game we threw screen to Giles, as I mentioned,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 11: and he's he's blocking, he's finishing, he's trying to, you know,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 11: make sure that he's protecting the guy with the ball.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 11: So you know, sometimes it doesn't always go the way
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 11: that you anticipate, or maybe the stats don't indicate that.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 11: And then for anthroony just you know, taking advantage of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 11: the opportunity that he got in.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 7: And helped us win.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 9: After the game, he said, you wanted to talk to
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 9: the medical staff on Kyle, Isaiah and maybe even Ft
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 9: and what what is their status the three of those.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 11: Uh, I would not anticipate either any of those out
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 11: here today and we'll see what their availability. I will
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 11: not playing the game and so that that one I
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 11: know for sure, and then.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 7: The other guys will continue to evaluate.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 23: Like off insive linement, playing new positions like Darien then
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 23: and Cole you know, how much stock do you put
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 23: into the limited sample you have at them at the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 23: new positions? Is there any other part of that evaluation
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 23: besides them just being on the field.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 7: There, man, I think if you're.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 11: At some point in time, you're gonna have to play
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 11: more than one position, and you know, swing tackle or
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 11: you know tackles and aren't starting the game are probably
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 11: going to have to play left and right. So we're
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 11: going to continue to work with Baderian and get them
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 11: some more snaps over there at the right.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 7: And I, you know, I.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 11: Hope that that will be will be better, and I
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 11: understand that. And when you're on one side and you
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 11: hear calls in a play means something, and then you're
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 11: on the right, what your job is on the other
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 11: side may sound simple, but when it's quick, I do
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 11: can at least appreciate were some of the you know,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 11: maybe miscommunication or you know, the assignment could get mixed
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 11: up from from play to play. So just getting them
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 11: comfortable over there to be able to evaluate him at
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 11: both sides.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 23: Minnesota's late movement with their D line affects some of
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 23: that too.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 22: I mean it was pretty pretty quickly.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 7: Well that's what movement's going to be.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 11: It's it's going to be on a snap and sometimes
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 11: in a run game, you know we're going to have
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 11: to be able to do that. They're not just going
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 11: to stand still on us. You know, sometimes we caught
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 11: him and sometimes we didn't. So there were examples where
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 11: the movement we were able to block it and gain
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 11: yards in a run game, and and other times where
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 11: you know, we weren't.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 13: A lot about not.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 24: Wanting to see guys were keep mistakes.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 7: Of course, throughout their development.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 24: To feel like Drake in terms of his judgment and
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 24: just ball security has shown a lot of that.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 7: And how far do you feel like his progress is
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 7: at this point?
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 11: Well, I mean, I think that we we have to
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 11: be able to connect on on on passes like the
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 11: one to to Pop, I was making sure that both
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 11: the receiver and the quarterback are on the same page
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 11: and that the ball placement is where it needs to be.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 11: You know, I would say that tip balls, especially ones
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 11: that are over the middle of the field or towards
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 11: the middle of the field, are going to end up intercepted.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 11: You know that he's continuing to improve and continue.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 7: To to uh.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 11: To help us, and and I and I like where
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 11: he's at. It's just you know, we just got to
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 11: fix that. And you know, we talked to him about
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 11: you know, not taking a you know, a senseless hit
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 11: outside the pocket on second and ten and if there's
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 11: nobody there throw it away. We'll you know, try to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 11: convert on third down and and just being smart and
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 11: understanding those little, you know details. And then you know,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 11: we talked about late in the game there with Ben
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 11: and being able to coach that you know, five minute
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 11: situation where we would want him to take a sack,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 11: even though as a quarterback, you're like, why do I want.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 7: To take a sack?
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 11: It's third down and seven and there's three minutes and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 11: twelve seconds left. You know, we force them to call
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 11: tom out or we take forty seconds off. So those
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 11: are great opportunities to learn from. And again, the quarterbacks
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 11: that aren't in the game, they have to put themselves
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 11: in that position. And that's what we were trying to
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 11: do there at the end of the game, is to
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 11: make sure that everybody was watching the situation, whether that's
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 11: the last play situations on defense or the five minute offense.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 7: With with with the guys that weren't in there.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 14: Don't worry about that.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 12: It's OK.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 7: I hear you too, Kyle Duggar. I was trying to
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 7: be Louderles, she told me.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to be louder.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 7: You weren't louder. I can just recognize your yeah.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 24: More with Kyle Duggar, as I'm concerned that last play
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 24: with the interception. What did you see on that and
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 24: how did you maybe coaching to either go down after
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 24: or just kind of like immediately on that play?
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 7: Just what did you see?
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 11: Well, again, that's that's why we, you know, practice why
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 11: we are grateful that these games can create those situations
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 11: of the last play.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 7: And again, you have two choices.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 11: You you know, one bat it down when you know
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 11: it's the last play, which I'm not expecting him to,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 11: and then when you intercept the ball, you just you know,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 11: we just have to go down. And then whenever we
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 11: have the football in our hands, defensively, you know, we
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 11: have to be able to secure it and we have to
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 11: be able to block, and we have to be able
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 11: to get the intended receiver and do all the things
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 11: now that an offensive player would do. So to just
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 11: simply go down there and and not have to take
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 11: the few extra steps to make it close.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 7: What did you think about what a game?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 8: You talked about how he was maybe a little.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 25: Too vampt up for the first part of the game,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 25: but he says he doesn't really want to change that.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 25: He likes playing with energy. Do you appreciate a quarterback
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 25: who approaches his job that way? Do you want to
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 25: try to calm him down as a head coach?
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 7: So how do you view that?
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 11: Again, the personality or they're whatever they're feeling, that's that's
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 11: that's up to them. I think that the performance and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 11: the mentality and how we want to play the.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 7: Game has to be the same.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 11: So, you know, whatever they want to feel, they're they're
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 11: They're more than.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 7: Welcome to feel.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 11: We just need to make sure that we, you know,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 11: execute and that we're taking command of the huddle and
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 11: that we're we're operating at a high level.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 7: And some guys are.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 11: Going to be more more amped than others as their
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 11: own personal approach to.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 7: The game competition.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 17: After getting a chance to watch the film and were
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 17: there any guys specifically that you thought need the most
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 17: of their opportunities.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 7: Well, we'll continue to evaluate that.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 11: You know that spot and that rotation, and you know
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 11: where we're at, competing and trying to make sure that
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 11: we're giving everybody the opportunity, and they're from from the
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 11: center and the left guard and just trying to figure
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 11: out what the best combination is.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 8: What do you see from and now? Great moments in.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: History.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 8: I'd rather be Damien Harris than Jake Bailey.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: Damien Harrison barely dressed for games.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 8: I'd rather be hating. He's a player, he's a football.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: Player, but he doesn't play.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 7: I don't care.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 8: I'm not a punter. I'm not the you know, everybody's ring.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 8: But he asked me which one i'd rather be. I
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 8: would take you one. If I had, you know, to
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 8: choose between what I'm doing now with you morons, I'd
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 8: be the punter to choose between being a real player
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 8: and in a specialist.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: Plus being the running back for even just ten plays
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: hurts a lot more.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 8: Oh yeah, what do you what do you want? What
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 8: do you everything? No sacrifice, no pain? Oh yeah, you're
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 8: just playing.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Paul's Rockney over here with the sacrifice.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: That's another great moment from five That's five hundred is
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: the Hotline podcast at Patriots dot Com.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Is the email address rabel today anything yesterday, Yes, yesterday.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: Now we got we have to hear from Terrell Williamstoll
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: for the first time today.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Defense was today.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 9: I think that's the first time we've heard from him
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 9: since he you know, announced that he had been sick
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 9: and why he was away from.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 4: The from the facility. So that was good to hear
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: from him.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 9: Finally, it's been kind of a man of mystery around here,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 9: so good to see him out there healthy. Said that
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 9: he got dehydrated a couple of weeks ago. That was
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 9: a little bit of an issue, but scare but yeah.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 9: And then the defensive coaches as well, like I said,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 9: not not giving me much, not giving me much.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: They're very tight lift.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: Tight was Deuce was really disappointed Evan that they wouldn't
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: unveil the whole scheme.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 8: Well, I said, to defend you, Evan would have gotten
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 8: it out of them.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 5: I tried, and I asked them. I even said, like
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 5: just in general, like you don't know specific to you,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 5: but just you know, they were They were tight lipped.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 5: And I We've talked about this before, but like I,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 5: most defenses are schemes where their offense are like fit
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: into a tree of like, Okay, this is like the
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 5: McDaniels offense is part of you know, the Ernhard Perkins
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 5: or this defense is birth from you know, the Seattle Three.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: Like I did. They kind of run their own defense,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: and I think they kind of know it, so they
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: don't really want to like go out and.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Think they might have some things up their sleeves.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: It just is a scheme that doesn't belong. And you know,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 5: it's not a Fangio defense, it's not a Belichick defense.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 5: It's kind of its own. Yeah, its own thing, and
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 5: I think they they pretty tight lipped about it.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 9: I was saying before you got in, like I just
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 9: looked at the coaching history of all this defensive coaching staff,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 9: especially Terrell Williams and obviously Vaybel But there's just so
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 9: many different threats from so many different defenses that it is.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 9: It's I mean, I love that stuff where it's all right,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 9: they're gonna run this version of it, but they got
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 9: their own thing going on. Be interesting, Like once we
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 9: get into the season and the real film heads on
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 9: Twitter and stuff get into it, and then you know,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 9: I'm hopeful somebody one of those guys that go way
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 9: back and will be like, all right, well it's a
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 9: little bit this concept.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 8: Up front, and was like, take that disrespectful that. Well,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 8: I know, I thought he's looking for someone to uncover it.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 8: I thought that was sitting next to the guy who's
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 8: going to.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 9: Well, I keep asking them to do it, and here
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 9: we are, we're both just standing here not knowing what's
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 9: going on.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you know, I just want to know
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 8: if they stop them or not. Right right, you know,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 8: we better on third down defense than we have been
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 8: the last few.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Years in the game.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 9: The word elite out elite, we might throw it out
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 9: of the conversation, or we're throwing it out there.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 8: I think you could throw that out.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: They are, you know, it's preseason, but they've played a
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: lot more quarters coverage, you know, four deep players across
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: the deep part of the field, and what we've seen
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: in the past, they actually they've played quarters twenty eight
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 5: percent of the time in the preseason. Over the last
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: five years, the Patriots have only played quarters seven percent
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 5: of the time. So it's a pretty significant increase. And
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 5: this is the time of year where you play your
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: base defense like you play vanilla coverage and sort of
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: what your base concepts are that you put in the
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 5: spring and things like that. So I think that's definitely
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: going to be a little bit more of it than
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 5: what you see. And I think some of that relates
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 5: to like why Kyle Duggar is where he is right
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: now because he's not really a quarter safety. He's not
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: really like a deep safety like that, So it's I
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 5: asked Scott Booker about that and he gave me like
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 5: the run around of like, oh, well, we just like
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 5: to mix up the coverages, you know. It's just we're
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: gonna just play a bunch of different ones.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 8: But yeah, they're very Mike, you want to throw your
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 8: Kyle Duggar question to Fred, see how Fred answers it. Yeah.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: Sure, I asked the boys. We were sitting up there
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: watching and I just said, if you have right now,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: Paul and we watched.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: We watched practice together today, all right.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 9: If you had to say, right now, where's Kyle doug
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 9: or Week one? Is he a patriot or is he playing?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 9: Is he not a patriot?
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I think he could be. I don't know if it
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: would be a surprise at this point, but he's a
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: surprise cut candidate.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was all with a chance. I think, yeah,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of with Paul.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 9: I still lean like they're not quite ready to give
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 9: up on him yet and I don't and I don't
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 9: feel super very close from well.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 8: To me, it's the money money.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: So we all know he was playing deep into the game,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: if not.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 8: The guys that play when he played that, he was
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 8: the very last place.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: So from your film review, yes, was he doing anything
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: where you could say, Okay, the reason why he's playing
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: deep is because they're asking him to do things he
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: hasn't done before and he needs to practice.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that there's some of that, you
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 5: know he was. They're playing a lot of quarters, like
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 5: I was saying, and then they'll rotate into cover one
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 5: or cover three, depending on you know, they kind of
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 5: mix it up right. Sometimes they stay stagnant and they
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 5: stay too deep, and then sometimes they rotate it to
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 5: single high and you know, some of those things that
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 5: they do and in the back end when they play
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: those kinds of coverages are especially in quarters, are different
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: than what they've been doing around here the last couple
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: of years. You know, they might be in match quarters
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: where he's like kind of has a man that he's
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 5: you know, keying in on and then if that man
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 5: runs under, then he's in a zone. And it's just
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: you know, some of those intricacies. And I think what
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 5: we see with Kyle Dugger sometimes is he's kind of
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: got tunnel vision, where like he doesn't see the whole concept.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 5: He only kind of sees like his twenty five percent
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 5: of the field, and then guys are like running into
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: his content, you know, his area from other areas, and
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 5: he's not really like he's not instinctive, like he's not
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: picking up on those guys. So I think that they
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: are trying to see if he fits his defense and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 5: if he can adapt to him with more reps, and
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 5: the live reps are obviously the only thing that's really
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 5: going to help is if it sticks for him, because
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 5: I think he watching him on the tape, like he
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 5: moved significantly better than everybody else that was on the
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: field at that point, to the point where sometimes I
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: think he was actually slowing himself down so that he
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 5: wasn't like over running plays because he was going at
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: a different speed than everybody else. But it's mental, it's
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 5: all of it. Is is he going to catch on
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: to it mentally?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 14: Yeah.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: And similarly when he was on the field, you know,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: really one of the best guys on the field was Jennings, Like, yes,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: he's another guy that played deep, but he was dominating.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he took that right tackle, he whopped him.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 5: He was It wasn't just the sacks like he was.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: He was beating the right tackle, the Vikings back up
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 5: right tackle all second half, in every area. But he's
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: dominating a guy that I don't know if it's gonna
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 5: even be.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: Right, which which he should do, he should do, you know.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 8: So for that reason, I don't think that those guys
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 8: will get cut necessarily, but I do think that they're
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 8: going to look to move them if they can. I
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 8: just don't know if, especially with Dougger. I think Jennings
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 8: could get moved because I don't think his contract is prohibitive.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: It's like this is the last year, right.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 8: I think he has two extension three year extensions.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: I think, oh so, at first he signed a one
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: year and then they update, is that a.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 10: Year?
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 8: Twelve million dollars rings out of my head. It's not
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 8: big money, but Douger is big money. Doug Dougger has
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 8: the second highest cap hit on the team, So I
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 8: think they would look to move him if they could.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 8: But if they can't, I think he's going to be here,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 8: and I think he'll play like I just think. I
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 8: think he's too talented to just not play at all.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 8: I don't I've never been in love with Kyle Dugger
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 8: in coverage. I think the problem here is pretty obvious.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 8: What we talk about all the time, him and Peppers
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 8: kind of more comfortable closer to the line is box safeties.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 8: They clearly think Peppers is better right now at that role.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 8: They don't want to have them both out there. I
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 8: don't know, but that's a big to me. It's a
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 8: big leap from that to we're just going to cut
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 8: a guy and pay him whatever is left on you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 9: One of the things that stood out to me was
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 9: when Jibill Peppers didn't play on Thursday's practice last week.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 9: They didn't give Kyle Dugger a chance in that sub linebacker.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: Role that it was Del Pettis.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 9: So they I don't even know if they see Dougger
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 9: the way that we see Douger. I think they see
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 9: Peppers and Douglas as different in that, you know, they
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 9: really seem to have a design on Tabril Peppers and
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 9: wanting to play him on passing downs next to Spelene.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 4: I mean he might be between him and l.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 8: I think it's what Evans. I think that they do
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 8: see him like that. They don't know if they can
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 8: do the other thing. They know that he could. You know,
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 8: we got to figure out if if we don't have
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 8: Kyle Dugger in this team, if we're going to trade
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 8: him because we don't need.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: Two of those.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 8: We got to figure out who's going to be behind
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 8: Peppers because Peppers get hurt every year two. So they're
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 8: going to have to figure out if Kyle Duger can
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 8: play in a different way if they're both going to
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 8: be on the field together, you know. In other words,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 8: I don't think that Kyle Duger fell behind del Pettis
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 8: on the debt.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 4: Well, I would just say it's interesting him.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 8: That's what it was reported as last week. I know
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 8: you guys probably weren't up on all the different things
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 8: that would be getting reported out of Minnesota, but that
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 8: was one of them.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 9: He's now with the threes, Like, yeah, I like that point.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 9: I just think it's asume we haven't seen him at.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: All at that linebacker role.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: You haven't.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 9: You've just seen him as kind of a safety, whereas
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 9: Peppers you have seen play a lot of that line.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 8: I think Peppers is that yeah. Yeah, but I think
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 8: if something were to happen to Peppers like tomorrow and
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 8: they needed to just you know, I think Dugger would
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 8: be in that role.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 9: Yeah, but that would be the first time we've seen
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 9: him even do it in camp, you know, like, is
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 9: he gonna be able to grasp that too, or is
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 9: that oh yeah, that he's good at that, you know.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 8: I mean, I don't know he can do that, so
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 8: they have to find out if he can do the
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 8: other thing. It'd be my guest. I don't for whatever
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 8: reason they don't, I mean, he's not in the plants,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 8: But whatever reason it is, they're clearly looking to move
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 8: on for him.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 5: I think it's a complimentary thing, like Craig Woodson and
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 5: Jalen Hawkins are just more complimentary players to Jabriel Peppers,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 5: not to mention some of the deep zone stuff that
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 5: they want to do and they need like a guy
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 5: that can really cover grass and can kind of see
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 5: things and anticipate things like I don't think that they
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 5: are looking for somebody like Duggart who's going to be
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 5: a little bit stiffer and not be able to move
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 5: sideline to sideline, you know, Craig Woodson, Jalen Hawkins, like
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 5: a little bit more like that that unlocks Gabriel Peppers
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 5: to do his thing closer to the line of scrimmage
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 5: and blitz and be in the run fits and like
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 5: all that that stuff. I just the one question. I
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 5: think the safety thing in terms of like free and
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 5: strong safety is kind of solidified. Like I think it's
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 5: going to be a rotation of Pepper's, Woodson and Hawkins
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: in some wave shape or form. I have no idea
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 5: how they're going to cover tight ends. And this is
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 5: something that we brought up a ton of Minnesota because
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 5: t J. Hawkinson was kind of killing them in practice
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 5: after zach Ertz killed them in practice, right, And it's
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 5: not so much like I just don't know what the
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: what they this scheme, Like how do you cover the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 5: tight end within the framework of the defense, Because the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 5: Belichick defense you had the Duggers and you know, the
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 5: chunks and like those types of guys that you just
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 5: kind of knew where the tight end stoppers. I don't
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 5: know if that's how they want to do.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 9: It, Like Ellis is going to get stuck on some
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 9: tight ends, Marcus Jones is going to get stuck on
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 9: some tight ends. And I think it goes to the
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 9: point you asked the cornerbacks coach today about Alex Austin
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 9: in the slot, and maybe that's an option to give.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: You a little bit more size.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, we talk about Week one against the Raiders.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: They've got hours, but I think in that game we
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: talked about it. You could put Davis on the tight end,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: you know, I think you can physical you can loan
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: him to the tight end because they don't have the receivers.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Aren't that great where you need you know, I'm assuming
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: Gonzo is going to be available to play that you
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: would need both of those guys on the outside.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 8: Wouldn't be stunned. Yeah, we talked about it. If they
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 8: did something like that last week.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 5: It's it's not Rock Bowers that scares me necessarily from
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 5: this perspective, It's like t J. Hawkinson, it's the third
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 5: If it's the third fiddle.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: In the offense, you can't game Penling wrong.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 5: You gotta put justin Jefferson. You know, you gotta do
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: something to Justin Jefferson. Jordan Addison's on the other side,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 5: and they have this pass catching tight end that can
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: make plays, right.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: Well, that's going to cause problems for most teams.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 5: So if he's one on one, who's he won on
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 5: one with? And how are they able to keep it
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 5: so that T. J. Hawkinson isn't beating you?
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 8: But you could see that, you know twice with Miami,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 8: right you know, like we saw it last year John
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 8: Neu Smith.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: You know J Smith again and in Pittsburgh.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 8: But that's a team that has two options that are
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 8: going to require Davis and Gonzo's attention. Right now, You've
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 8: got to deal with a tight end who is capable
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 8: as a receiver.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: And in Miami we might have to be dealing with
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: Matt Judan coming out of the edge.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 8: Saw that Yeah, just signed h Yeah.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 4: Wow, how quickly things have changed.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: I just so he's gonna have teal sleeves now that
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: we'll have to see not red Rob writes in Underrated
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: aspect of the Patriots preseason so far. No penalties, lots
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: of physicality, not a lot of mistakes yet, Yeah, buying that.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 8: I would focus on the pre snap stuff that was
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 8: really a problem last year has not been a problem.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 8: This year that's a real positive.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 9: So it's hard to like compare it tho because last
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 9: year it fell like such a train wreck and like
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 9: this year it's been definitely good, you know, but.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: I was so scarred by it last year. It's like, well,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: what's what's good?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 7: Now?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 9: That's still we're at. But I think overall, operation, play, intensity,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 9: all that stuff has been really up.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 8: It's buttoned up, you're lying, you're lining up properly, You're
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 8: you know what. I know, you guys, but you guys, Yeah,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 8: but you guys made a comment. I think Baker had
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 8: a false start penalty. Like that's when you can name
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 8: them like individually.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 9: Right, that's a good set of like, oh, I mean
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 9: you have a lot of times last year, remember would
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 9: be like the first or second snap of the game
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 9: that you have a false start on.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 8: The home when you had in Washington the tackles were
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 8: lining up in the backfield.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, god, yeah, I mean I'm far.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think again and again.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 9: Yeah, if you had to add it all up and
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 9: just kind of sum it up, I think on both
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 9: sides of the ball, and maybe even in the special
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 9: teams too.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: There's gonna be big swings like back and forth.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 9: That's what it feels like, a big play on the kickoff,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 9: and then they give up a big play or you know,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 9: big sack on defense and then they get gashed by
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 9: a screen for a big play and you know, Drake
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 9: misses a wide open guy, but then he bombs one
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 9: down the sideline and hit mass caling like those kind
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 9: of like swings.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: Can they just find.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 9: Enough consistency across those three phases to win games? And
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 9: you know that's what very Able said, the thing we
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 9: have to start preparing to win right now.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: So I don't know what that looks like.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: That'd be a good uh Steven marblehead? Right, where do
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: you ranked Hishm in terms of all time Patriots? Fred?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: Where do you rank Hism relative to Stanley Morgan and
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Randy Moss? Slightly lower? Deuce Alex and Evan Alex isn't
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: here today, but Duce and Evan where do you rank his?
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: And relative to Welker and Edelman?
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: Not behind him?
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: And then Paul, where do you rank Hism relative to
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: Josh Boyce and Bam Childress.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 8: Oh way different kind of receiver than Josh Boyce, but
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 8: Bam Childress. I think he was just kidding that way,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 8: and I used it as an opportunity to say that
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 8: I've been down this road before.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: Jeremiah says, I may have rose colored glasses on. But
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: I've always felt May has shown glimpses of that killer mentality.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: But I just don't think coaching or players made it
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: any easier on him. Trying to execute the games. I
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: like to think of where it's score or go home.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: Like Jacksonville. He took it downfield and scored to give
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: them a chance in the Rams where they tied it,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: but he just couldn't do it again to win the game.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 5: Okay, so they're behind it jackson They.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 8: Got killed by Jacksonville. They were never even competitive in
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 8: the game. Well, I jumped out to a ten nothing lead,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 8: then gave up like thirty two straight.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 5: And then they got like I think they got. Remember
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 5: they went for two. It was the all.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 8: We They were never within a touchdown in the second
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 8: I went for two down nine, didn't get it. The
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 8: Rams game, they never tied the game. They were chasing
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 8: at the end, and he had a chance to steal
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 8: it and threw a pick. I think he might have
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 8: been thinking about the Tennessee game that they tied, which
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 8: I talked about a little earlier. Yeah, I do think
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 8: there's something to the fact that when you're asked to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 8: do as much as he was asked to do last year. Yeah,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 8: I think it's hard when you get in those the
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 8: situations where you feel like you have to do it all.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: It's a little different. Like think about Justin Herbert.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 9: We were the fan base with him right now, like
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 9: that to me, will be every that's a question for him,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 9: do it all? He didn't throw the ball, he didn't
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 9: turn the ball over barely at all last year, but just.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 4: Can he win the big one?
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 9: Can you know you've got opportunity in arrowhead to knock
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 9: off Patrick Mahomes.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 8: He won a lot more games as a rookie than
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 8: Drake May did, And those questions persist for Justin Herbert.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 5: Justin Herbert is the biggest juxtaposition between film Twitter and
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 5: like narrative Twitter. Like film Twitter is obsessed with Justin Herbert,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 5: like the throws that he makes are just unbelievable, but
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 5: then narrative Twitter, like Paul Shows are like the guy
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 5: can't win, he stinks right and it's just so funny
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 5: to see if.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 8: I really like Justin Herbert, I don't think that those
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 8: those criticisms are unfair. He has not won as much
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 8: as he should.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he threw a twenty yard out in
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 5: the game the other night. That's going around film Twitter.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 8: That's just right. It's going around the dark Web.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 5: And you're just like, you're like, holy crap, this guy
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 5: can throw.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Make you just picture you know, Evan Zilk out there
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: in their basements and their underwares and they're tidy white.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: He's just watching this stuff.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 8: The bil thing goes up.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 9: But it's such an interesting way to analyze quarterbacks because
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 9: a guy like Justin Herbert and Drake may they have
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 9: all the intangibles, and someone like may Uh mac Jones,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 9: who didn't have all the intangibles, but someone like me
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 9: still held out hope that well, if he could just
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 9: not make the killer mistake and then at the end
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 9: you kick in, you make the throws then but even
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 9: then you were still always knew he would.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: Be limited in a way.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 9: And that's why for guys like Drake eventually maybe and
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 9: Justin Herbert more and more so, they have everything they need.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 9: They have all those those intangibles.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: So you're left wondering like, well, what what more frontiers
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: are there to conquer? That's the one. You just gotta
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 4: win games.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get back to the phones. Eldred's in North Carolina.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Watch up Eldred? What card pile up?
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 10: Hey?
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 16: Mike?
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 8: Uh?
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 16: That game the coach Will was miked up and he
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 16: was talking noise?
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 22: Did he say that?
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 16: And he was calling him play his de quarterback and
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 16: they were to whooped this? But he did? And get
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 16: back to to May.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 22: Would him a little bit.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 16: A team? But he's young, give a little bit. Did
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 16: he show that killer and don't kill at him? But
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 16: I think he was younger, did so? I think I
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 16: think Josh could bring it out of not did you?
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 22: Maybe next year? Okay, I have a good one.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: All right, thanks thanks Brigge. Yeah, I just don't. I
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: don't think we've seen enough opportunities for him to show
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: us whether or not he's got that killer instinct. So
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: the jury's out.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 5: I just get him doing the regular things consistently well
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 5: before we start worrying about can he put them over
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 5: the top.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think it's the thing you can develop.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 9: I mean, Paul talks about Tom Brady in his third start,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 9: But I mean Tom Brady relentlessly preparing for a year
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 9: and a half, felt, you know, ready to take advantage
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 9: of you know, could we say that Drake May has
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 9: ever been as prepared as Tom Brady was in his
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 9: third start. I don't think he's not been that for
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 9: he hasn't had the coaching, He hasn't had the experience yet.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: Even big games in college. I mean, I know, with
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: famously Brady split time with Drew Henson, but he had
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: some amazing games at Michigan Orange Bowl. Yeah, and that clutch.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 8: But I think that the more the better reason to
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 8: make fun of my Brady comparison is it's Tom freaking.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 5: Brady, right, right, like some statue.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 8: Right, there's a reason that we unveiled the statue two
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 8: weeks ago. He's the greatest of all time, right, Like,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 8: there's no reason why Drake May shouldn't be as prepared
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 8: as Tom Brady was in the middle of it, you know,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 8: in the second year. Why, but coaching Brady is unbelievable, right,
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 8: Why does coaching preparing.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: Because you're not getting the right info. I mean, you're
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: not getting you know, they.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 8: Got good info last year like the like the info
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 8: was the problem.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: Well part of the problem.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say I would say that Tom Brady
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 9: with Bill Belichick was getting better info than Jake May
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 9: was getting last year with with Alex van Pelt.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not trying.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 8: To say I'm not saying like, I don't I don't
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 8: know that Brady that sorry, Drake May is unprepared. I'm
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 8: not saying that, but I wouldn't blame that on Alex
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 8: van Pelt. I mean, now, is Alex van Pelt as
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 8: good as Bill Belichick?
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, but I mean Bo Belichick great, Alex.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 16: Well.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 9: The point, though, I was really trying to get at,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 9: was just that like, yeah, Brady's special and and yes,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 9: probably a lot of his early success was just innate.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 4: But I don't think that that's it. You're either clutch
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: or you're not.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: And you know what I mean, like you can get
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: to that point, but trying to think.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 8: I'm not saying that he's not. I'm not saying that
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 8: Drake May is not. I'm saying that we don't know
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 8: because we haven't got the information.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: But I kind of think you question, I think it's
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: in your.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 5: Get him to be able to read cover two before.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 8: I do not want to have any like nonsensical abstracts discussions.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 5: It's for putting the car well before the horse. But
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 5: he's got to be able to hit the open receivers.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 5: So we were he's gonna I'm.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 8: Gonna answer my own question. You know why, because you're
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 8: an analytical sort of guy and you don't believe in it.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 8: You don't believe in it. You guys, have you told
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 8: me millions of times that there's no difference between the
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 8: ninth inning at bat and the second inning at that
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 8: clutch doesn't exist. And I would just you don't have
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 8: to have the last drive of the game be the
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 8: only clutch drive of the game. You can be clutch
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 8: putting a game away in the second quarter. You can
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 8: have that killer third that Fred's talking about. That killer
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 8: it can manifest in a myriad of ways third and
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 8: long like during a game. It doesn't have to gotta
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 8: have it, please.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 5: I just I guess, I just it's not that I
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 5: don't believe in it, but I just look at it different.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 8: But you admit that you're ill does not believe in it.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 5: I admit that, and I would say that like to me.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 5: It's just like, like Brady was clutch because he was
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 5: so consistent, and like he just every time he made
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 5: the right decision with the ball, and he was like
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 5: he was just saying he.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: Made the right decision because he was clutch when he
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: had to.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 5: But but like he did that in the first quarter,
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 5: and he did that in the fourth part, and I
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 5: hear get Drake to do that like consistently period before
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 5: I'll give you.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: And forget about Drake. Any player, let's not say this
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: is all about Drake if you don't have the fundamentals down.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: I get it. It's tough to be clutched because the
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: game is going.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 5: Too fast and it just unravels.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: But when you clutch, the game slows down because you
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: understand what's going around you. You you recognize that, you
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: process it faster and then you can execute it.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 8: And that's when you're Joe Montana pointing out John Candy.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 5: And I but Brady through on the first drive and
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 5: he's doing that on the last drive.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 5: He was maniacally consistent.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 8: I get that he was, and that's what separated him.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 8: But he also had periods of bad playing games, but
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 8: never when it counted, Yeah, never when he had to
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 8: have a drive?
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 4: Does does Barth believe in clutch kickers?
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 13: Barth is.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 5: Clutch that it pains me?
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 8: I just I just look at it.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 9: That's a clutch, I really am, It's a really I
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 9: think I find it fascinating just because, like I said,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 9: I think that's what is the biggest ingredient for greatness.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 9: Like a lot of guys are tall and can throw
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 9: the ball a mile and can run really good.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: But the guys who do in.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 8: That league, every game is decided.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: And I know I'm going to bring up three players
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: who should have statues Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: But like game on the line, who do you want
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 4: to take?
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Were so?
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: They were animals, they were killers. They want you know,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: they were killers.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 8: Who would you least out of that three? Like to
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 8: have taken the last shot? Kobe, no question.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, like the greatest basketball player
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 5: of all time? But why five time NBA?
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Why were they so great?
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 5: Because because they were damn good.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: They were damn good. But they were so damn good
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: because part of part of the reason they were so
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: damn good was their mentality. They just freaking hated to lose.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: I agree with that.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 9: I agree with that everyone sucks, but me, I mean,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 9: I agree with that that's a good thing to bring
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 9: up Fred like, because that's a Brady thing.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: Like these guys who are so competitive it's annoying.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 9: And I wonder across the NFL if all quarterbacks are
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 9: like that or only like the truly, because I think
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 9: most NFL players are almost annoyingly competitive. But Brady, can
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 9: we just play Ping Pong Tom without you storming out
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 9: because you lost the point? You'd like that kind of guy.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 9: It's another fascinating part of this whole Clutch story because
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 9: I feel like that competitiveness. But again, like in the NFL,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 9: everybody's competitive, but guys like Brady are even more.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: There's levels.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 5: I don't think that there's a lot of guys in
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 5: today's NFL that are like Brady. I think Mahomes is
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 5: the closest one. But I think that that for Mahomes
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 5: developed like I think Mahomes is that now. I don't
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 5: think that Mahomes was I think Mahomes was just awesome.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 5: Like I don't think Mahomes when he lost to Brady
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 5: in the AFC championship game was the thing that we're describing.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 5: I think he was just damn good. Like now, I
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 5: think he's more like that. But we just talked about
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 5: Justin Herbert. I don't know if Lamar Jackson like that.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 5: I don't know if Josh Allen's.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 8: I think Josh Allen has it, but I definitely think
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 8: that the Justin Herbert thing that we're talking about, he doesn't.
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 8: And I really like Justin Herbert a lot, but I
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 8: don't think it bothers him the way it would bother
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 8: Brady to lose a game.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 5: And we're talking about you know, those three guys, Lamar, Alan,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 5: Herbert along with Mahomes like that's probably in Burrow are
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 5: probably the top five quarterbacks in the league, and three
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 5: out of five of them at least. I think Burrow
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 5: probably has a little bit.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 8: Burrow has it, no question, Yeah, I believe that, but
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 8: like that's I don't know if those guys exist. But
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 8: I like you Lamar Jackson and Herbert because I think
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 8: those two guys, I mean, you know, Allen needs to
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 8: be in that conversation too. I just feel like I've
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 8: seen Alan bring his team back enough to know that,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 8: you know, like Sometimes you can lose and be as
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 8: clutch as you can possibly be, Like that divisional round
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 8: game a few years ago, when three times in the
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 8: last two minutes he's scoring touchdowns, still lost the game.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 9: Most guys all lose to Patrick Mahomes, just like you
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 9: know Philip Rivers, who how competitive was he couldn't get
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 9: past Tom Brady you know in a game that count
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 9: it No, it's it's.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's that combination of the mentality to
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: want it and the skill to be able to do it.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: And you have both, you become great.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 5: I just think that the skill has to come before
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 5: the clutch. Well it's okay, that's what he has the skill,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 5: but he has the skill, I don't know, but like
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 5: the whole thing.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's yeah, and that's what that's and that's that's
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 9: that's where we are.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 5: And you know that I'm talking this much about clutches making.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: You don't believe. But there is that special it that
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: you can't quantify.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 9: Is this like momentum. Clutch and momentum those are yeah,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 9: of go hand in hand.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: Momentum A lot of people.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 8: Will tell you there's no such thing. Momentum is only
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 8: as good as the next day starting picture like, no, sorry,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 8: when the Red Sox won ten in a row, momentum
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 8: had something to do with that. Yeah, and they've really
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 8: been you know, not you current stretch. Notwithstanding, they've been
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 8: pretty good since.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 5: You just brought up a game last year in Jacksonville
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 5: in London where the Patriots were winning that game ten
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 5: to nothing, and it felt like they were going to
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: win that game going away. Yeah, and then all of
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 5: a sudden, Jacksonville scored thirty straight points and ran the
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 5: ball seventeen times down the Patriots' throats and won the game.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 5: So that's my side of the street would say, well,
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 5: where's the momentum there?
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 8: But no, well that it was a little early in
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 8: the game. They definitely had the momentum after the first quarter.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 8: And then you turn the momentum around by throwing a
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 8: bomb to Brian Thomas over Gonzo.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Good player.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 5: Now he flipped the momentum.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 4: You can't flip momentum pretty quick.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 8: But I so here's the thing what I'm talking about.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 8: This is kind of what I meant like, it doesn't
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 8: have to be late in clutch. If that was the
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 8: two thousand and four Patriots who started off ten to
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 8: nothing and then they hit him with a hatemake of
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 8: a bomb, and all of a sudden, it's ten to seven.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 8: Tom Brady goes back on the field. That's a big drive.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 8: Momentum just changed. They have momentum now even though we're winning,
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 8: they have momentum. Now that's a clutch drive. Tom Brady
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 8: goes down the field and says, now you just can
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 8: leave seven. This game's over again. It's seventeen to seven.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 8: I look at Fred and say, that's game.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 8: It's true.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 8: Again. I was there, Brady, it's Tom Brady. It's the
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 8: greatest of all time. But that, to me is a
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 8: clutch drive. It was the second quarter, meaning was the
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 8: Patriots went three and out. Now that's what happens when
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 8: you were losing team too. I mean the Patriots were
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 8: fourteen and two, the best team in football, had won
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 8: two titles. You know, well there's a huge difference here.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 9: But that's what Well, that's where I was going to go,
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 9: is that even though you're up ten nothing in the game,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 9: the overall moment in the season is like in the gutter,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 9: and the second you get a little blip and then.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 8: The team we're looking to pick, you know, pack our
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 8: tents up and go home and leave because we're ready
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 8: to lose, because that's what we've done all year.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 4: I just send us home.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 5: I can already kind of see this happening with Drake May,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 5: and I see it happen all the time with my
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 5: guy Jason Tatum. Get better and like these modern athletes,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 5: like I don't know if they're wired like.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 8: That, doesn't bother. The absolutely drives people here in this
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 8: market crazy because we are wired like that from all
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 8: of our you know, sports fandoms when we were growing
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 8: up and stuff, and I just I don't know if
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 8: this generation of athlete is like that.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 5: And Tatum gets dragged for it all the time that
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: he does clutching up, he doesn't make the final shot,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 5: he doesn't this, he doesn't that, and yet he's a
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 5: top five player in the league and an NBA champion, So.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 8: Right, but not the greatest You had to do that,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 8: But that's true. That that's what because I don't think
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 8: anybody would argue that Jason Tatum is not a great
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 8: basketball player.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 5: Right, but when we talk about Jason Tatum and I
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 5: feel us going in this direction with Drake May, that
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 5: we're going to talk. Well, he's got all the talent
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 5: in the world, he's unbelievable. He just don't feel he
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 5: just don't feel great about it at the end of games.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 5: And that's that's the Tatum treatment. And so it's just like,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 5: is that, you know, maybe we just need to adjust,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 5: Like I don't know if we're going to see Brady
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 5: or Tea's bird like those types of point.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 8: Maybe he gets to the point where he's playing so
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 8: well and so productive that the end of the game
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 8: isn't as important because they have they have the lead
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 8: in these games, and I don't need them to be I.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Will, I will forever believe it's a thing.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 8: It's a thing.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: It's a thing.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 8: I definitely think. I think you can actually see it.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 8: Sometimes you can see guys visibly playing differently, you know,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 8: or maybe they and.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 5: Everybody else chokes. That's how I look at it. I
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 5: think Brady stays the same, and I think everybody else
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 5: shrinks because the moments too big for them, whereas he
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 5: plays the exact same way when it's the Super Bowl.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: Like again, I I hate to always lean on the greatest,
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: but when you watch that Celtic City documentary, Larry Bird
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: comes out and says, at the end of the game,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: I want the ball because I worked harder than everybody else,
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: and I know I did.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 8: I hated that line though, I remember that.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, but like that's the way he felt,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: like I put in more work than all these other guys.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: I want the ball. And we know that.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 8: That's back how we started this whole thing when Due said,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 8: you know he was more.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: Prepared, right, and you know, we know how he felt
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: about Michale, that Mikale's talent was maybe more than Birds,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: and Bird thought like he didn't always give a hundred
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it's true. Doesn't mean he was right,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: Celtic doesn't mean he was right, but that's how we felt.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 8: And because he was a mania that bothered me. Was
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 8: one of the few things about Bird that bothered me.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 5: I just look at like one of the Boston athletes
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 5: that are this generation, you know, Tatum, even David Posternoch
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 5: with the Bruins, And now I feel like it's starting
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 5: to happen and with Drake May and like we all
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 5: just might need to let go of like the athletes
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 5: that literally the killers, the Jordans.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 8: I'll give you. I'll give you one enough that I
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 8: think is unfair, and it happens on my shows all
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 8: the time, especially with Mike and TONI. It's like this
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 8: whole notion that you stink if you don't win titles, right, Like,
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 8: that's not the only gauge of a great player, you know.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 8: Not everybody can win the championship every year. And I
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 8: just feel like there's too much of that now, Like,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 8: but Woulds he ever won? Okay, he never won it all,
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 8: so I guess I can't say that he was a
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 8: really good player.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's was spoiled. I mean back in the day,
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: you know, But that's my pointed. Williams was one of
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: the greatest, but he never won anything. But we were okay
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: with that because we had never won anything. Now it's
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: all different exactly.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 8: You know. I just think this era is different in general,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 8: not just around here. But that's the way we look
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 8: at these these athletes are you know, you can only
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 8: be so good if you've never won any if you
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 8: never want it all.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 9: And yeah, that's another reason why I kind of like
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 9: my veree, because I think he has that kind of
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 9: mentality that hates to lose and makes them sick and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 9: hopefully that disseminates itself into the team's personality that they
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 9: will match that.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: Risell said, you know, losing kind of throw up in
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: your mouth, like you just can't buy.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 9: Someone said, like, losing feels worse than winning feels good,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 9: and that always spoke.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 4: To me so much.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes that's true.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 8: I think a lot of people fell.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 9: Yeah, like winning feels like you just checked a box
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 9: and did what you were supposed to do.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: Apecially, when you're the guy that looked at the third
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: strike and they all star.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 8: Oh, Freddy, it's okay.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: I'll never get over it. I'll never get over it.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 8: Or fred off your shoulder. Well, you were in the
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 8: All Star game.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: Right, he got my participation trophy.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the scouts are like that.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: Not this guy.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 4: He got it much.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: All right, let's wrap up someth Christians in La what
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: nonsense today?
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 22: He ain't gonna have to do, eykay. First of all,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 22: let's be clap back at mister Kyle from LA. It's
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 22: Christian in La, not Christen from LA. I never claimed
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 22: he from LA. I'm from the East coast, the least ship, right.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: You've never claimed to be from La. Yep?
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 22: No, I'm from the East Coast, like everybody knows. Secondly,
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 22: I was going to kind of get after you guys
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 22: for coddling Drake May, but you guys have had some
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 22: really adequate criticism of him. The only thing I would
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 22: add is added to seem to be really nonchalant. You know,
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 22: even though he answers questions before he answers, he just
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 22: doesn't seem to have that sense of urgency to like
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 22: prove something. And I don't know if it's like if
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 22: it's Josh at practice, something that's houlding him back from
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 22: cutting it loose at practice. But I'm not hearing you
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 22: guys talk about him making these great throws at practice,
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 22: are really going down field and trying to really cut
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 22: it loose in the practice of I don't know if
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 22: you just puts to turn it on when the season starts,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 22: but I'm I'm kind of a myth there. And lastly,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 22: Crazy and Michael Parsons are officially really now on the market.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 22: I'm thinking that the Elliott will about bombsayl Sports in
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 22: the state, He's going to go after him. Would you
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 22: do you guys think something like Anthony Jennings, Kyle Dugger
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 22: and a third Hendrickson and then just straight out at
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 22: first round pick for Michael Parton. Thank you guys, take
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 22: up the hair, all right?
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks? Yeah, we talked about that on the top of
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: the show. Uh, neither one of those the Bengals want
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: a first round pick, and I don't think those two
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: guys make up for not getting a first round pick.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 5: Now, we were talking about this out of practice, like
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 5: just throwing Anthony Jennings and Kyle Dugger into these trades,
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 5: like these are the players the Patriots don't want.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 8: So now the banks four and thirteen Patriots don't have
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 8: a home for you, and that's gonna get in Trey Hendrickson.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 5: Now I think for Trey Hendrickson, like could you maybe
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 5: get him for like Kean White and some draft capital?
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 8: Like maybe I threw out your Marcus Jones too. Earlier
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 8: I was talking about our conversation about but just throwing
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 8: them defenses. The secondary was really bad last year.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe they like Marcus value and I want to get
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: I want to get to Willhem and Phillim.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 8: And one first round pick for Michael Marsons is going.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: To get there. I was thinking, you know what the
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: thing I was posing when it comes to Hendrickson, is
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: who are you going to if you give up that
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: first round pick? Who are you going to get that's
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: going to be better for the next four years?
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 5: I think he I mean he's already over thirty, right right, Yeah? Yeah,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 5: but no, I yeah, I'm not worried so much about
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 5: about the draft pick. I think you're going to have
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 5: to give up a much better player than Duggar or
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 5: Anthony Jennings.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: Oh no, absolutely, Like, but I worried about the draft pick.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to need draft picks. We're still
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: a building team.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 8: So but you could probably get him for a first
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 8: if he wanted to do that. You wouldn't have to
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 8: worry about it. The veterans. Yeah, I mean, obviously we
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 8: want to give up the veterans that we don't want.
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah. So okay, so you would give up
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: a first even for Hendrickson.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah, No, I don't think I would because I don't
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 8: think they're close enough to make that trade.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 5: I'll give up a second and Keon.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, Keon, if you knew that your first was
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: going to be lower half of the first round, because
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: Hendrickson gives you eleven wins, this year, would you do it?
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 8: Well, I thought I was gonna win eleven games, then
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 8: I would make the deal for a first round pick.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 5: I feel like that's sort of where where I'm coming
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 5: from with not caring about the pick as much, because
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 5: I they're not at Hendrickson away from winning the super Bowl,
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 5: but they might be a Trey Henderson away from being
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 5: a playoff team. And then you're talking about nine, ten,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 5: eleven wins and you're not picking in the top ten.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm in, okay.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 8: If you guys think that Trey Henderson makes them an
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 8: eleven win team, I'm in okay.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 5: I mean most people are picking them to be above five.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 8: Well that I know, Yeah, I know.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: I'm just saying, all.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: Right, Willem and Phillim, you've held on patiently, Thanks for
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: doing that. What's up? How you doing good?
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 14: Okay, it's going on.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: We're doing all right. How you doing?
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 6: Okay? I'm off to day So I got down to
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 6: talk just but I know, because I about to be off.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 22: The ear, you can keep up.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 6: Look, I get the hype aboutism and all that def
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 6: and Chism went off. Yeah, he gets open. He might
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 6: be familiar with Josh mcdamn's scheme and all that, so
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 6: I can seehere that benefits him. It, but you knew
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 6: what I wanted to see. I want to see Kyle Williams.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 6: But unfortunately Dobbs just crushed my god damn dream when
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 6: you spent him into that plate and got his head
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 6: knocked off.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: God damn right, I hear you.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 6: That's all that's all to say.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: All right, thanks will All right.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 5: It was disappointing because I thought I might have to
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 5: watch that play.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah, you guys are describing that you should.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 5: And I thought that he was building the right I
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 5: thought he was getting open and ball was actually finding him,
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 5: and I think he was going to have a pretty
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 5: good game.
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, yeah, yeah, that is. That's the frustrating
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: thing about football as injuries. It is.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 9: And I think he's such an X factor for this offense.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 9: If it's able to click for him and mesh him
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 9: into that passing offense, he could make a real difference
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 9: for them.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: All right, Listen. I thought it was a lively discussion,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: especially when we got to the clutch part. We we
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: determined that Evan is all washed up when it comes
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: to that discussion. Yes, you don't know what clutches.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 5: Let's just get let's let's build.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm only I'm only kidding.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 4: Could you have a car with a clutch?
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't, actually.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Which is more than most people your age.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 8: I've never, I've never tried.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 10: Never.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: That's how I learned.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 5: It's a rare thing for somebody my age.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: Do that. Absolutely, it is good for you, all right.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 8: But they still make those clutch.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, a lot of work cars shifters.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, that's going to be it for this
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: edition of Patriots Unfiltered. We're going to be in uh well,
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be in uh Jersey on Thursday, So
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: you guys are going to hold down the four.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 8: The pregame show as six forty five, six forty five,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 8: six forty.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: Five, okay, Hot hour, one Hot hour.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: And Claudia will be back Claudia, so we'll be back
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: in my seat. So look forward to that. All right,
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: thanks for listening. I will see you next week. These
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: guys will see you on Thursday.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 4: Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
• 2:00:23
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• 2:00:25
  Speaker 9: like us wherever you get your podcasts like Apple Podcasts
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 9: or Spotify.
• 2:00:29
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• 2:00:29
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• 2:00:31
  Speaker 9: see this show and everything else that we do here
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 9: at the Patriots.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 4: Thanks a lot.